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Community => Shootin' the Breeze => Video Games => Topic started by: Griffith on September 19, 2002, 10:56:35 AM

Title: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on September 19, 2002, 10:56:35 AM
Welcome to The Thread of Zelda (tentative title). Now you can see me making the same posts about Zelda today as I did five years ago, all in one place! :griffnotevil:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Century-slayer on May 11, 2004, 09:29:13 PM
the pics look good also its has a m rating http://www.gamesarefun.com/news.php?newsid=882 (http://www.gamesarefun.com/news.php?newsid=882)
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: dwarfkicker on May 11, 2004, 09:48:25 PM
That game is gonna be incredible.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Malf on May 11, 2004, 09:49:16 PM
finaly the game we deserved in the first place.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Vampire_Hunter_Bob on May 11, 2004, 09:55:38 PM
the pics look good also its has a m rating

It does not have an M rating. Just because it said "mature-looking graphics" in the article doesn't mean it's going to have an M rating.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Majin Tenshi on May 11, 2004, 10:01:34 PM
Nifty...
Does that look like a child Link in 5 or is that just my imagination?
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Vampire_Hunter_Bob on May 11, 2004, 10:07:49 PM
Nifty...
Does that look like a child Link in 5 or is that just my imagination?

It's normal link. I thought the monsters fist looked like kid Link's head also.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: dwarfkicker on May 11, 2004, 10:27:19 PM
Here's a video of the game in action:
http://www.gametrailers.com/gt_vault/t_legendofzelda_ww2_e3_2k4.html
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Eddie on May 11, 2004, 11:43:54 PM
Old link is back! Ownage, I hope it lives up to the hype.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Malf on May 11, 2004, 11:45:11 PM
Im hoping it will be as good as ocarina of time... the best game.....ever made
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: DemonX on May 12, 2004, 01:09:18 AM
yea, its about time they got the adult link back in the show. looks cool
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Tzur on May 12, 2004, 01:11:53 AM
Meh, I never really liked Zelda. :P
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: ZoddGuts on May 12, 2004, 01:18:54 AM
This is good fucking news. After being dissapointed on how the Wind Waker turn up, a Zelda game like this is a blessing.  :)

Oh and it looks like Epona is back. 8)
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: DemonX on May 12, 2004, 01:23:26 AM
I hope Link decides to make out with zelda this time...
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Eddie on May 12, 2004, 01:24:53 AM
This is good fucking news. After being dissapointed on how the Wind Waker turn up, a Zelda game like this is a blessing.  :)

Oh and it looks like Epona is back. 8)
A zelda game like this would always be a blessing, I hope this has to do with Ganon breaking free of the sacred realm. I mean they did seal him, and he did say "one day, whne I break this seal". They should also enhance Saria's song and the windmill song and put it in that game.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: ZoddGuts on May 12, 2004, 01:28:52 AM
I hope Link decides to make out with zelda this time...

Ya I always wanted Link to finally get it on with Zelda.  ;D
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Eddie on May 12, 2004, 01:29:21 AM
I hope Link decides to make out with zelda this time...
...enticing
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Kyosuke on May 12, 2004, 01:45:01 AM
I might just pick up gamepube for this.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: ELEKTROFUNK on May 12, 2004, 01:56:57 AM
Sure looks nice. hehe I lended my gf my gamecube so she could play soul calibur 2 but she better have bought her own gamecube (I think she is going to buy anxbox tho) by the time that comes out because I am taking my gc back :D

I also saw in that site about the ps2 drop to 150$ thats really cool I guess Ill buy it now :D ( Once I called a friend of mine a geek because he owned a gamecube an xbox and a ps2 and now I will own them all myself :S). I guess I will be the geek now :p hehe
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Queenfan01 on May 12, 2004, 03:02:38 AM
Perfect timing.  I just started getting into Wind Waker 3 days ago, and I really dug Ocarina of Time.  Hopefully the video file is actual game play footage and not FMV.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Trench on May 12, 2004, 03:24:53 AM
 Its about time I can put my GameCube to use. Its been all Xbox and PS2 at home. I think the only game I have for Gamecube is SMASHBROTHERS....  LINK IS BACK!
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Nomad on May 12, 2004, 07:02:19 AM
maybee Im wrong here... but it only said Legend of Zelda @ the tittle in the preview... is this a remake of the 1st one... or am I just being a dumb-ass?
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: lady winde on May 12, 2004, 07:58:15 AM
It's a different game.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Membrax on May 12, 2004, 12:08:44 PM
if it's half as good as ocarina of time, it would be already a great game. If more, then it's time to buy a gamecube ^^
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Vampire_Hunter_Bob on May 12, 2004, 01:04:36 PM
if it's half as good as ocarina of time, it would be already a great game. If more, then it's time to buy a gamecube ^^

I'm going to play it either way, I just hope it has better replay value then Ocarina of time.  :-\
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Queenfan01 on May 12, 2004, 01:29:56 PM
maybee Im wrong here... but it only said Legend of Zelda @ the tittle in the preview... is this a remake of the 1st one... or am I just being a dumb-ass?


The first 'Wind Waker' trailer did the same thing, so I think it's safe to assume that it's not a remake of the original.  I imagine it's supposed to increase the mystique of the game.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: The Dark One on May 12, 2004, 01:52:08 PM
i think zelda games are very good. back when super nintendo was the big thing and they came out with zelda: link to the past, or something like that, i beat it a bunch of times and i loved every minute of it. zelda is the shit, when it comes out i am going to get it the first day it does come out.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Eddie on May 12, 2004, 08:14:38 PM
I'm going to play it either way, I just hope it has better replay value then Ocarina of time.  :-\
even with no replay value I beat that game 10 times or so. That and the master quest. I <3 Zelda games.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Century-slayer on May 12, 2004, 09:56:48 PM
i think the name is like that because they still havent choose a title either way it would be crazy if its a remake of any of the zelda games
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: The Perineum Falcon on May 13, 2004, 12:58:45 AM
i think the name is like that because they still havent choose a title either way it would be crazy if its a remake of any of the zelda games
its not.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Eddie on May 13, 2004, 02:07:58 AM
its not.
It's not what? not a remake? or it's not unnamed?
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: dwarfkicker on May 13, 2004, 02:26:45 AM
Nintendo's new look for Link will be on shelves next year.

Just after the end of E3 2004's first day, Nintendo held a roundtable discussion so that the press could hear from the director of Wind Waker and Link's new adventure, Eiji Aonuma. During the event, Aonuma confirmed that the new Legend of Zelda game unveiled at Nintendo's pre-E3 press conference is currently scheduled for release in 2005.

Additionally, this game is the same game that Aonuma referred to as "The Wind Waker 2" back at the Game Developers Conference in March. The game won't be called The Wind Waker 2 when it's completed, and won't be a sequel to the last GameCube Zelda game.

Link is said to be a teenager in this new adventure. Additionally, Link's horse--not confirmed to be Epona--is said to be a prominent element of the gameplay. We'll have more on The Legend of Zelda as it becomes available.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: DemonX on May 13, 2004, 02:38:57 AM
Does this mean our young hero will submit to his teenage hormons hes been holding back so long on Princess Zelda?
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Eddie on May 13, 2004, 02:44:08 AM
Does this mean our young hero will submit to his teenage hormons hes been holding back so long on Princess Zelda?
Why can't you just go make a doujin where link screws zelda, and be done with it?
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Jon Schaffer on July 16, 2004, 02:04:12 AM
I THINK I saw a video of this. It had Link and Ganondwarf or whatever fighting and that was it. Oh and I haven't seen that trailer on the site yet so I hope didn't just make an ass out of myself. Anyways, the screens look pretty friggin amazing. I probably will buy a cube for this one.

Is it just me or does the castle theme bring back memories of the game Medievil?
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: GriffithZero on March 12, 2006, 12:13:34 AM
Anyone a fan of Zelda games? I was a bit disappointed when I heard that the Twilight Princess was delayed until the end of 2006. Although it seemed like a quick decision, Nintendo has barely disappointed us with its delayed games. I think it is better for Twilight Princess to be delayed and improved than it to come out and end up being a terrible game. I would like to hear anyone's opinion on the delay.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aazealh on March 12, 2006, 12:36:26 AM
I like the Zelda series and am waiting for Twilight Princess. Not possessing a GC, I'm thinking about playing it on Revolution, if I decide to buy it that is. Consequently I don't mind any delay, and in general I prefer that a game be delayed instead of rushed while still incomplete.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: IsolatioN on March 12, 2006, 01:45:11 AM
Agreed. I would much rather have the game delayed for awhile then released in a state where the developers feel that their entire "vision" wasn't complete. I don't mind waiting, because I have never been disappointed with any zelda title before. I look forward to playing TP. Heh, going to have to bring out my Gamecube and dust it off for the occasion :)
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Majin Tenshi on March 12, 2006, 03:22:23 AM
Anyone a fan of Zelda games? I was a bit disappointed when I heard that the Twilight Princess was delayed until the end of 2006. Although it seemed like a quick decision, Nintendo has barely disappointed us with its delayed games. I think it is better for Twilight Princess to be delayed and improved than it to come out and end up being a terrible game. I would like to hear anyone's opinion on the delay.
A nintendo game delayed!?!?!?!?OMGWTF!?!?!
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: SMZKAH on March 12, 2006, 03:34:50 AM
If I remember correctly, OOT was delayed too (please correct me if I'm wrong) and I have yet to find anyone who was dissappointed with it. I agree with what's already been said, I'd rather have it be perfected than rushed to store shelves, too many bad games have been rushed.  I'm a big fan of the Zelda series, and I can't wait to get my hands on this one.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: lost to me on March 12, 2006, 08:58:28 PM
having a game rushed to the shelves is never good.  ESPECIALLY if it has anything to do with Legend of Zelda.  Those games are the only thing that come close to my fanatical admiration of Berserk.  but yeah.
can't wait for the game to come out. its gonna be so sick. :chomp:

dude, the revolution will be pretty cool. who's to say if it really be revolutionary or not, but hey i have been a nintendo fan forever and have only been really disappointed with the Virtual Boy.  and Gamecubes aren't so bad to have, but since the revolution is supposed to be all backwards compatible and stuff, there isn't really much point in picking on up unless in you're into novelties right? :???:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Vaxillus on March 13, 2006, 12:42:47 AM
I'm quite honestly getting sick and tired of people saying, "This [game, movie, whatever] will be release at exactly [this time]," and then moving it back when they realize their goal was rediculous.  I don't even want a release date if it's announced more than a month ahead of the release.  I'm fine with predictions if their labled as predictions, but I'm really tired of all the teases in the entertainment industry doing this.If you don't know when it's coming out, then say so.  Dont give us some piece of crap release date that will end up as a big fat lie.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aazealh on March 13, 2006, 03:56:54 AM
I'm quite honestly getting sick and tired of people saying, "This [game, movie, whatever] will be release at exactly [this time]," and then moving it back when they realize their goal was rediculous.

Developers and/or editors very rarely do that 2 years before the game actually comes out. They say: "Twilight Princess' estimated release is currently Q3 2006". Then if it's delayed they change their statements. The people overconfidently giving out precise dates are game magazines/sites and PR guys that say bullshit to pressure their concurrents 60% of the time anyway. I wasn't surprised at TP's first delay, and the move from Q2 to Q3 2006 really means nothing to me.

Now what bothers me more is failed hardware releases because of low stocks like what happened to the Xbox 360 and NDS Lite, or irrealistic console release dates and complete denial of any possible delay while issuing contradictory statements at the same time, like what Sony's currently doing with the PS3. Plus the fact that the Playstation and Xbox have a tendency to be made using cheap components, (too) often resulting in hardware deficiencies.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Vaxillus on March 13, 2006, 04:57:34 AM
Thanks for the clarification, though I've had a fair share of companis doing that as well.  I suppose it really just falls on to the consumer (me) to just plain ignore those dates.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: yota821 on March 17, 2006, 01:34:08 AM
It apparently is compatible with the Revolution Controller (http://revolution.ign.com/articles/696/696091p1.html)

One more reason why I can't wait for the Revolution  :guts: (pun intended).
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: IsolatioN on March 17, 2006, 03:46:40 AM
Well that certainly explains the delay. Cool news! I can't wait for it.

But right now, I am pre-occupied with anticipation for Oblivion. Only 4 more days!!! :guts:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aazealh on March 17, 2006, 08:19:21 AM
Yeah, ain't that fantastic?

(http://aazealh.net/Divers/Miyamoto_Paris.jpg)
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: yota821 on March 17, 2006, 02:27:42 PM
Isn't that a picture from when Miyamoto got knighted in France?  Hilarious pic there, Aaz.  :guts:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aazealh on March 17, 2006, 02:37:19 PM
Isn't that a picture from when Miyamoto got knighted in France?

Yup, one of many.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Ramen4ever on March 17, 2006, 03:20:01 PM

But right now, I am pre-occupied with anticipation for Oblivion. Only 4 more days!!! :guts:

Me too Me too. Its gonna be awesome.. But buying a laptop that will be able to play it.. $1600 minimum  :judo:  The game apparently wont support any x200 video cards. x700's are expensive :miura:

By the way Horseback riding will be great in the Twilight Princess. Oblivion will have it as well but the ride was too bumpy for first person view so fighting on horseback will no longer be a option in Oblivion. :judo:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: IsolatioN on March 17, 2006, 03:44:39 PM
pic

haha, great picture. I love Miyamoto's expression in those and the other pictures of him "across the world". It's like he is secretly plotting to invade France ;)
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: spikeyhairedcadet on March 17, 2006, 07:12:28 PM
I dont mind that they pushed back zelda,they should take as much time as they need to produce the highest quality game they can.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on October 02, 2007, 06:58:21 PM
(http://skullknight.net/images/zeldaPH.jpg)
Was released today. Picked up mine early and took the day off work to play it, just like I ditched high school the day Ocarina of Time was released :guts: I'm loving it so far. I was really skeptical of the touch-only controls, but it's very intuitive. Takes only a few minutes to adapt to most of the techniques (still working on rolling consistently...). This is the first game in a long time where I was anxious about getting too far into it and beating it. And yet... I have all day to play it. What a dillema!!

My only real complaint so far is the cartridge isn't gold.  :judo: That and the difficulty of bosses being too easy.

Though I know we're all anxious to blab about the game, I'm sure there will be more than a handful of people who haven't touched it yet, so please, no untagged spoilers.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: CnC on October 02, 2007, 07:15:49 PM
I've heard it's good.  Good luck :)
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aazealh on October 02, 2007, 07:19:56 PM
Hehe, I told you it'd be good. Sadly, I'll have to wait 2 weeks more before it's released in Europe, but I wish all the US players to have fun. :guts:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: handsome rakshas on October 02, 2007, 08:19:18 PM
Thanks for sharing, Walter. I was going to start the topic myself but you beat me to it. I'm glad to hear your're enjoying it.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aazealh on October 02, 2007, 08:49:22 PM
I'm glad to hear your're enjoying it.

What about you? Bought it, tried it?
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: handsome rakshas on October 02, 2007, 09:05:17 PM
What about you? Bought it, tried it?

Nah, I'm absolutely broke. Well, I actually have about a grand in my wallet but that's to find a place to live. That's right fellas, Handsome is moving out! I'm only budgeting myself two games this month and they are Front Mission and Dracula X Chronicles. I really want to play Zelda but its not one of my favorite series, I only completed the first game. I'll try my bud's copy tomorrow, I'm sure it won't disappoint!
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Blues on October 03, 2007, 01:13:57 AM
Sigh, damn you October.

A friend reminded me earlier last week,
"So you getting phantom hourglass?"

"yeah, December or so right?"

"try the first of October."

I panicked because I am flat out broke (not bank/bills etc, just on hand cash). I've coasted on ten dollars for about well, ten days, lots of missed lunches/skimming by on gatorade and water. But yeah, Phantom Hourglass, Orange Box, GH3 ($100+ alone there) all coming out and I'm sure I'm missing another big game.

But yes, I plan on getting it on payday (Thursday), but if my store doesn't carry it or is out I'll go in the city Friday and pick it up. I'm looking forward to it.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Slime_Beherit on October 03, 2007, 01:42:40 AM
i was playing it this morning i enjoyed it, especially the multiplayer  its kinda like pacman with power ups
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on October 03, 2007, 01:45:43 AM
i was playing it this morning i enjoyed it, especially the multiplayer  its kinda like pacman with power ups
I haven't tried multiplayer yet, but I'm at a portion of the game where the gameplay is similar. And I have to say, these parts are really tough, and they only get progressively tougher. It's like a combination of Metal Gear Solid-type sneaking and Pac-Man evasion/action.

I'm at the third "temple" right now and am taking a break for the night. I'm hoping I'm only about 25% of the way through the game, since I just got it today, but so far there's no indication where I sit overall.

BTW, my friend code is:
055946836512
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aazealh on October 03, 2007, 07:43:10 AM
Damn, you guys are making me envious. About the lifespan Wally, like I said yesterday, the common consensus is that if you rip through the game skipping the sidequests it'll last around 15 hours, and if you take your time, explore and such it's around 20 hours.

It's not bad at all for a handheld title I think, but as with all great games, you probably won't see them pass.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on October 03, 2007, 02:31:38 PM
Game locked up on me at a pretty critical point... now I have to redo an entire dungeon. Greeeat.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: CnC on October 03, 2007, 02:33:32 PM
Game locked up on me at a pretty critical point... now I have to redo an entire dungeon. Greeeat.

Thats odd considering this is such a signature title for nintendo.  Oh well, welcome to the next generation of gaming.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aazealh on October 03, 2007, 03:50:07 PM
Thats odd considering this is such a signature title for nintendo.  Oh well, welcome to the next generation of gaming.

Hopefully that bug won't be in the European version. :puck: And yeah, I think I've seen more console games bug in the past 2 years than in the 15 before.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on October 03, 2007, 05:13:23 PM
Thats odd considering this is such a signature title for nintendo.  Oh well, welcome to the next generation of gaming.
Yeah I was surprised as well. It's been clean sailing besides this one glitch. Admittedly, several things were happening at once, and I pulled up a menu that changes screens, so... it may have just been too much for the game. 

Details:
Was on the northwest sea on the ship, being attacked, while a whirlwind was about to suck in my ship, while I was attempting to use the Salvage Arm to get buried treasure near the Isle of Gust :guts:

I'm pretty far into the game now and can safely say it's a good length (that's what she said :ganishka:). I'm sitting at roughly 13 hours in and there's still a lot to do. I think 17-20 hours would be a fair estimation.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Blues on October 04, 2007, 12:18:39 AM
Yeah, my store has it. I'm picking it up tomorrow. This is the part where I get mentally retarded and admit I've only used my DS for single player (And Wii the same). I've gone to the download station a few times but have never bothered to actually try any co-op/multi with anybody (given asides from PW series+Castlevania, I only have 1-2 games that actually are able to do so).

Anyways onto the point, the friends code=located where?
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on October 04, 2007, 12:27:46 AM
Anyways onto the point, the friends code=located where?
It's never in an intuitive location in my opinion... but in this game, go to Battle, then Friends Roster, and it'll give you an option to view your own code there (post it when  you get it!).

I looked forever for the one in Metrod Prime: Hunters. Fucking a Nintendo, you're an amazing developer but you're a complete tool when it comes to multiplayer interfaces.

That being said, the actual gameplay for this game's multiplayer is awesome, even though so far I suck at it.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Blues on October 04, 2007, 12:32:13 AM
It's never in an intuitive location in my opinion... but in this game, go to Battle, then Friends Roster, and it'll give you an option to view your own code there (post it when  you get it!).

I looked forever for the one in Metrod Prime: Hunters. Fucking a Nintendo, you're an amazing developer but you're a complete tool when it comes to multiplayer interfaces.

That being said, the actual gameplay for this game's multiplayer is awesome, even though so far I suck at it.
Thanks, I'll definitely post it tomorrow (or at least sometime this weekend). I'm gonna try to limit myself to playing the single in the break room only, I'm scared I'll play it to death if I do so while home.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on October 04, 2007, 04:01:40 AM
A review I wrote for my newspaper on the game. Some minor non-story related spoilers within, but I've tagged the big ones out.   Please excuse the length. I really set out to write a brief review, but I just have a lot to say about the controls, and I know that's what really makes or breaks this game to most people.  This version is actually longer than the one I put in the paper, since I'm allowed to talk about nerdy things like plot continuity and use descriptors like "Hyrulian" that I couldn't with our general readership  :guts:


Every few years, Nintendo assembles their first-party team and truly lives up to their namesake. It feels like a decade has passed since that magic was felt in a Zelda title, but at long last, it's back.

"Phantom Hourglass," the newest installment in the coveted franchise, is one of the few official sequels in the series. It follows closely in both graphic style and game design to its predecessor, 2004’s “Windwaker” for Gamecube.  In Phantom, the seafaring Link must again take to literally uncharted islands to rescue his princess-turned-pirate-captain Tetra, or if you payed attention last game — Zelda (gotta work that title in somehow, right?), in a flooded world set presumably hundreds of years after previous games in the series. This particular world has always held a certain captivation with me because of its history and the Hyrulian influenes from previous games/ages.

What sets “Phantom Hourglass” apart in the multi-titled franchise is its the premiere Zelda experience for the DS handheld. This is one of the only games in the system’s library to take full advantage of all the DS' myriad interface options and make them feel natural.

The game doesn’t waste time in proving it’s no one-trick pony. Pinpoint-precise, touch-screen controls? A given, and a must throughout. (Minor spoilers about some neat control usage follow: Microphone input? You blow out candles in-game using your real breath (in practice, this can become “saliva input” if you’re in a hurry).  Even flipping the DS’ clamshell screen closed becomes a game function at one point. These are just the tip of the iceberg to the game’s innovative usage of the handheld’s multiple interfaces. )

Nintendo dives headfirst into enemy territory by tampering with its cherished series’ tried-and-true control mechanics. For any player, it’s obvious from the outset — the control issue will make or break this game, which is why I'll be focusing on it over other elements in this review. Having played nearly every game in the franchise using the cherished and ancient directional pad, I was somewhat miffed Nintendo chose to make the touch-screen controls the player's only option. Don’t they know this touch thing’s just a gimmick?  :puck:

Well, that was my first impression. I quickly learned that by forcing the player to use the stylus on the screen, dozens of new control avenues become available that weren’t even conceivable before.

Before I harp on any more, let me just get this out of the way — the game plays great. Fear not. The controls in Zelda are unsullied by this newfangled touch-screen.

One look at how the boomerang is used in the game should make a true-believer out of even the most incorrigible of gaming purists — you draw the path it takes on-screen. Sounds childish, right? But you can use this feature in a limitless number of creative, and devious, ways if you experiment. A technique I use often is tossing the boomerang in an arc behind the enemy, striking them towards Link, simultaneously making them dizzy and leaving them vulnerable to a strike. All this is accomplished in a single motion, effortlessly. It makes me wonder why no developer has used the touch-screen like this before.

Most of your standard-faring Zelda weapons return, but in precise, touch-screen fashion. You can now accurately throw objects, including bombs, exactly where you want them to land instead of a toss of faith.  And the bow and arrow can now be aimed any direction you point, where it was previously fixed at 4. When you see it in action, you’ll be amazed how cool this actually is.

While there is a wealth of good that comes with the control shift, there are inevitably a few negatives that crop up given enough time playing the game. Moving Link across narrow cliffs can be treacherous when your hand is literally in front of the screen, guiding him along. And it will take most players hours to master the clumsy integration of rolling, a necessary technique in the game. But even these initial qualms are overcome with practice.

But clearly there's more to this game than just awesome controls. Phantom corrects the largest problem I had with Windwaker in that the time spent at sea is far more entertaining and action-packed. Windwaker's gameplay was bogged down with hours of backtracking and charting aimless courses across a huge ocean to get from A to B. In Phantom, it's (normally) as simple as drawing a line on the map. After you chart a course, it's up to the captain to do the work while you blow things up with your cannon. Now that's an improvement.

Once you find your footing in this game, you won’t put it down. Thankfully, the world is huge, which lays to rest another fear of mine when it comes to these big-budget first-party titles — bang for my buck. Despite my fears of barreling through it in a handful of days, at 13 hours in, there’s still a huge quest to conquer.

The director of the series is already calling “Phantom Hourglass” his favorite next to the legendary “Ocarina of Time.”  I’m beginning to see where he’s coming from, and for those who know the reputation of the latter game, these words could move mountains.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Blues on October 04, 2007, 04:08:26 PM
Nice review, however I notice a somewhat apparent "ten year" gap (at least with the director's comment), so is this somewhat to say WW/TP aren't as good/worthy as OoT successor as PH is? Not doubting at all or anything, just seeing what you think so far on the matter.

I picked it up this morning, read through the booklet. I was going to get online but I can't right now, and I probably won't start playing the single till tonight. The biggest relief so far is actually seeing that games can turn the "touch gimmick"  :puck: into complete functionality, leaving me a lot of hope for the game and others like Ninja Gaiden.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on October 04, 2007, 06:20:15 PM
Nice review, however I notice a somewhat apparent "ten year" gap (at least with the director's comment), so is this somewhat to say WW/TP aren't as good/worthy as OoT successor as PH is? Not doubting at all or anything, just seeing what you think so far on the matter.
Well I really didn't like Windwaker. And I've still yet to play Twilight Princess, but based on the many reviews I've read, it's no OoT rival.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Blues on October 04, 2007, 06:34:39 PM
but based on the many reviews I've read, it's no OoT rival.
Misread perhaps, but is this a reference to TP or PH?

As for TP, itself, I finally got it about a month+ ago and have much love for it so far. As for PH, just started it up an hour ago and so far liking what I see. Btw, friends code time
(FYi, it says "Wi Fi Connection Id", if this isn't the same as friends code let me know
edit: correction, don't think it is, will re edit when I Find it.
edit2: Nvm, *slaps forehead* found it in the should-of-been-blatantly obvious friends roster/my FID

4081342817227
btw added you walter.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on October 04, 2007, 08:09:36 PM
Misread perhaps, but is this a reference to TP or PH?
Quote from: Walter
And I've still yet to play Twilight Princess, but based on the many reviews I've read, it's no OoT rival.

Quote
4081342817227
btw added you walter.
Awesome, maybe we can meet up sometime this weekend?
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Vampire_Hunter_Bob on October 04, 2007, 09:14:55 PM
And I've still yet to play Twilight Princess,

try and keep it that way.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on October 04, 2007, 09:16:06 PM
try and keep it that way.
No, Im actually looking forward to it. I know a lot about the game already and the qualms Ive heard about it don't sound like they'll bother me. Anyway, It'll be Zelda overload for me pretty soon. I'm getting a Wii in November.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Vampire_Hunter_Bob on October 04, 2007, 09:37:56 PM
No, Im actually looking forward to it. I know a lot about the game already and the qualms Ive heard about it don't sound like they'll bother me.

I enjoyed the beginning of the game, but then the game just got really boring and almost not worth beating. It was almost like they didn't really try to make the game good towards the end.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on October 04, 2007, 09:49:25 PM
It was almost like they didn't really try to make the game good towards the end.
I dunno, that final fight with Ganon looked pretty dramatic and awesome when I viewed it on YouTube.  :puck:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Blues on October 04, 2007, 10:04:54 PM
With TP (reason why I asked for clarification) I saw it the exact opposite with many reviews (the main typical auto-praise) giving it OoT successor labels (sans the now infamous 8.8 ). I agree with the middle section of the game being very strung out, but as I get closer to beating it I have much love for the game and I myself give it a big nod over Ocarina (READ READ READ, "overall game quality"). But like Jeff's review (Which was pretty much spot on) it wasn't entirely reinventing the "tried and true" format of 3D Zeldas. Again, like Walter I was a huge fan of OoT when it came out, but TP is just the better Zelda to me in terms of overall package, but didn't rework Zelda into any new medium like OoT did.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on October 04, 2007, 10:29:26 PM
TP is good, but it wasn't like the experience of OoT all over again even though it was blatantly trying to be that and everything else, even the given technological advancements, I still think OoT has better design, and minus the tedious portions of TP (BUG HUNT! WOLFIE WOOF WOOF!). Also, the plot in OoT actually centered on Zelda, Link, and Ganon. This was like Big Trouble in Little China; Link was really the sidekick. =)

Anyway, the dungeons weren't anymore well designed or challenging to me, just longer and more complicated, and the bosses might have actually been the easiest yet. You could basically feel confident with a heart going into any one of them (their difficulty was inversely proportional to their size it seemed). Link is basically a killing machine, and the later armored toughies (you fight like 6 total in the game, including the challenge dungeon) are really just systematic to kill. I haven't liked the targeting system since OoT (when it was better and more absorbing because you didn't have to hold the stupid button the whole time and could get into the battles, especially in Master Quest), but it doesn't even matter in TP, you can just mash buttons and you'll basically mow through everything without much trouble. They didn't even keep the battle advancements from WW, such as using enemy weapons. That stuff had promise if they actually incorporated it into the gameplay more than just for the fun of it.

But I don't mean to bash it, it's not at all bad and a real treat for Zelda nerds; TP pretty much incorporates and fuses all the plot elements of past Zeldas and more, as well as great fan service to the rest of the series overall (including an instance of brilliant fusion of OoT and LttP mythology). I really think they tried to make this the ultimate Zelda; so, it's still fun and full of awesome stuff, but judging it by that lofty goal, I'd say the PERFECT Zelda experience since OoT still alludes us. :carcus:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Vampire_Hunter_Bob on October 04, 2007, 11:25:44 PM
I dunno, that final fight with Ganon looked pretty dramatic and awesome when I viewed it on YouTube.  :puck:

Yeah that was good, but the bosses leading up to it were boring and well easy. I wanted cool looking bosses that provided me with a certain level of pain and suffering. I guess the Iron Knuckles [that's what they are called right?] were supose to balance it out.

I also hated how you really didn't need to learn any of the special killing moves because you could beat the game with out it.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on October 05, 2007, 01:51:13 AM
Building onto what Griff said, I'd like to talk a little bit about Phantoom Hourglass' plot, so for all who haven't gotten far in it (everyone but me apparently) I'll spoiler tag it out, for the purpose of discussion.

Phantom Hourglass spoilers ahead:

One of the great things about PH is that it doesn't try to be the end-all-be-all Zelda, incorporating all historic elements of the other games, but what's there is very cool. It's like the other side of the Windwaker world, uninfluenced (other than the FLOOD) by the Hyrulian fallout.

This game basically ushers in a new chapter in the series. It's beyond the Ganon/Link/Zelda conflict dominant in most other games.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Blues on October 05, 2007, 02:37:59 AM
saving space etc
I do think you're right on a lot of points. However, disagreements for some etc.
You could argue the "holy trinity" wasn't as centered on in TP as OoT, but all the same OoT was a smaller game when all is said and done and from beginning to end there wasn't enough space and the dungeons had just as much side story/fluff as those in TP, you just notice it due to TP dragging on a bit more in those areas.

As for what you said again I'm in agreement too, Twilight Princess to me at the moment -is- the ultimate Zelda experience (infusing the best of the whole franchise imo) -however- as I mentioned, it wasn't much of an advancement for the series. I don't think we're looking for a "better" Zelda since OoT (imo that's happened with TP), at least in my case, I'm looking for an "impact" akin to what OoT had on the franchise as a whole and not just a "better" game than the last entry.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on October 05, 2007, 02:47:04 AM
taking up space

Yeah, that's what I meant by OoT was better designed. TP has more, but what it's got more of isn't better.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aazealh on October 05, 2007, 07:42:09 AM
I still think the best ending in the series is Zelda 2's. DISCUSS! :troll:

Honestly I found TP to be pretty good myself. Sure it's not perfect and I believe that with more efforts it could have been greatly ameliorated (my biggest complaint would be that it's too short), but even in my pink-tinted memories OoT wasn't exempt of defaults either. Though I've got to agree with Griffith, nothing came close since OoT to its feeling of ULTIMATE. The game design was really impressive and the story was engrossing and well done, but most of all it felt really complete, like nothing was missing from it.

Anyway, all this talk about TP is useless, all that needs to be said is that it features the coolest move in the series, shown at the end of this short video (starting at 00:17): http://youtube.com/watch?v=DLabtNSGbCs (http://youtube.com/watch?v=DLabtNSGbCs)
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on October 05, 2007, 03:33:11 PM
Anyway, all this talk about TP is useless, all that needs to be said is that it features the coolest move in the series, shown at the end of this short video (starting at 00:17): http://youtube.com/watch?v=DLabtNSGbCs (http://youtube.com/watch?v=DLabtNSGbCs)
What fan service  :schierke: ...  :guts:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on October 05, 2007, 07:20:31 PM
What I don't get about that is why it only seems to happen guaranteed after you kill the plant enemies. I guess they wanted you to see it early on, but didn't want it to get old or repetitive with like if it happened with every other enemy.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Blues on October 08, 2007, 04:20:00 AM
I'm about 5+ hours into the game and I'm heavily mixed. Easily, it's the "Best Use" of the DS in a single game thus far, but all the same it just feels like an amalgam of all previous "innovative" DS titles crammed into one. Given to say that's no small feat, but so far the novelty is running thin rather quickly and I'm hoping the features Walter spoke about (clamshell etc) redeem this into a "fresh" factor later on. The phantom hourglass portions of the game (namely ocean king so far) are terribly paced and the difficulty (especially given sans DS features, the basics here are fundamental Zelda of course) thus far is leaving something to be desired. Basically, so far none of the features (even boomerang) have really stuck out as truly new territory, and moving/using Link in general isn't so far off from how we've been using a mouse to move RTS units/point and click games for decades now.

Negative nagging aside, I'm having fun with it and its a great handheld game to pass time at work, but nothing -yet- is catching me to make me sing it in epic form.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on October 08, 2007, 06:49:39 AM
Easily, it's the "Best Use" of the DS in a single game thus far
Isn't that a pretty awesome achievement though? I mean, there's only a certain number of ways the DS can be used, and this game does all the good ones, and throws in some new ones too. I'd call that a good job.

Quote
Given to say that's no small feat, but so far the novelty is running thin rather quickly and I'm hoping the features Walter spoke about (clamshell etc) redeem this into a "fresh" factor later on.
Well, the wide usage of the input options slims out as you progress. The game dabbles in different ways to control things, but settles on a handful, which is fine. What I like the most about the controls is how natural it feels even shifting gears between weapons that use different inputs, as you get further in the game. Wait til you get the HAMMER  :isidro:

Quote
The phantom hourglass portions of the game (namely ocean king so far) are terribly paced and the difficulty (especially given sans DS features, the basics here are fundamental Zelda of course) thus far is leaving something to be desired.
Really? I find those Phantom dungeons the toughest and best planned in the game. And those portions of the game definitely increase in difficulty as you progress. It's easily the most intimidating dungeon, and only gets harder when the variables begin changing, as you'll see later ("B12?! You gotta be kidding me!").

Quote
Basically, so far none of the features (even boomerang) have really stuck out as truly new territory, and moving/using Link in general isn't so far off from how we've been using a mouse to move RTS units/point and click games for decades now.
That's like saying, "This Cadillac is just like a BMW! They both have a gas and brake pedal!" There's only so much you can do with navigating via touch-screen, so some superficial "repeats" are bound to happen across such a wide genre as video games. But I think the way PH integrates the controls feels spot on. And that's all that really matters at the end of the day.

Anyway, if you're only 5 hours in, you haven't seen the best uses of the controls in weapons yet. But has another game used something like the boomerang, the way its used here? You know it has like, 3 ways to be used.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Blues on October 08, 2007, 01:33:57 PM
Isn't that a pretty awesome achievement though? I mean, there's only a certain number of ways the DS can be used, and this game does all the good ones, and throws in some new ones too. I'd call that a good job.
Like I said it's no small feat and thus an achievement in your words, but as I mentioned it is an amalgam of the best DS features, yet we are also three years into its lifespan, its quite easy to feel some of it is familiar territory. My only negative here were the things that are "innovative" and unique to PH itself -thus- far in the game haven't really blown away my expectations. Maybe its' because I've had well over a year now to expect a stylus-controlled Link and boomerang, thus less of a "welcomed surprise" and more of an expectation that met up.


Really? I find those Phantom dungeons the toughest and best planned in the game. And those portions of the game definitely increase in difficulty as you progress. It's easily the most intimidating dungeon, and only gets harder when the variables begin changing, as you'll see later
When I mentioned difficulty I meant the game itself and not the "PH" dungeons. My problem lies with how the PH dungeons are paced/need of backtracking (I hear there's a save point at some time that lets you go back to a certain floor?) and not that there is no fun to be had. I want to make it clear my negative criticisms aren't "Wow, I really -hate- this" so much as a way of "seeing something perfectly" and not as simply "perfect". I can't really think of any fandom/favorite I have where I don't have just as many negative sidenotes, but the amount of negatives aren't substantial to do any harm to its overall quality.
That's like saying, "This Cadillac is just like a BMW! They both have a gas and brake pedal!"
Again it was just a negative side note, not a complaint that its not fun to control Link.
Anyway, if you're only 5 hours in, you haven't seen the best uses of the controls in weapons yet.
Thus why I noted many times (and still do) the big "yet" factor, I know having played Zelda for well over a decade+ now the series' strong point is escalation in expectations as the game advances, thus I didn't want to sit here and say it in a way that would imply all these negatives are here to stay.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on October 11, 2007, 01:47:20 AM
I beat it yesterday. Cool ending I thought, especially for those familiar with the rest of the series. After all is said and done, I'd say this is a good return to the basics for Zelda. The game doesn't stretch itself too thin, and stays true to its top-down, adventure-seeking roots.

I give it a 9/10. Not perfect, but easily the best DS game I've played so far and the most fun I've had with a Zelda title since Ocarina of Time.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: handsome rakshas on April 02, 2008, 07:58:22 PM
As corny and fake as it may be, its pretty well made. I thought some of you Zelda fans might get a kick out of it.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aazealh on April 02, 2008, 08:02:57 PM
As corny and fake as it may be, its pretty well made. I thought some of you Zelda fans might get a kick out of it.

Thanks, that's great. I imagine you forgot the link in the youtube thread, where I posted it yesterday. :badbone:

http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=7078.msg149763#msg149763 (http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=7078.msg149763#msg149763)

As a matter of fact, rumor has it that IGN spent a lot of money on this April Fools.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: handsome rakshas on April 02, 2008, 08:06:02 PM
Oops, sorry about that. I always seem seem oblivious to the fact we have a youtube thread.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aazealh on April 02, 2008, 08:07:53 PM
It's cool, it deserves its own thread anyway (well, maybe not). So, uhhh, while we're at it, check out these RE4 April Fools videos:

http://www.the-horror.com/index.php?id=re4vid (http://www.the-horror.com/index.php?id=re4vid)

They're the ones at the bottom of the General Videos, called "Classic RE4".
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Death May Die on April 03, 2008, 02:32:58 AM
Speaking of jokes, this happened a while back. Any one in the RE site community may be famliar, this was posted by "Rombie" of Biohazard Extreme



(http://rammy.totallyre.com/BHXNet/misc/myamends/biohazard4box3s.jpg)
Fake Biohazard4: Umbrella Rising Boxart
Well I said that I'd give away a secret and here it is! It was me who created the obviously fake Biohazard4: Umbrella Rising boxart in 2000 that still floats around the web today. Yup, I'm the fired Capcom designer who sent an e-mail to various fansites including my own under a false name and e-mail-address. But I was not alone, good old Rombie from Resident Evil Fan: A New Blood was on it as well. Why we did such a stupid thing? Plain fun! We wanted to see how fast it would spread throughout the community... and it did quite well to say the least! But we really couldn't fool anybody with it - it was soon discovered that the image I've been using was from the movie Psycho II, I didn't know that myself at the time, hehe. I scanned that picture from a German gaming magazine's Resident Evil 2 review. And I indeed used - as many people found out - an original PSX long box, ironically the Resident Evil long box. However, it was great to see how many websites had this in their news, Rombie and I had a good laugh! Thank you and sorry for the bollocks. :)


That thing was a pretty big issue at the time, others and myself where very interested in the news. Funny, the game wouldn't release till 5 years later. A lot of people really thought it was the real deal. If you would of asked me about it a few months ago, I would of said it was the real oringal RE4 casing. back when RE4 took place on a flying Umbrella base.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on April 03, 2008, 02:38:47 PM
Well if you think that relates, then I may as well tell you guys about this intensely real radio broadcast in 1938 claiming that Martians had invaded the Earth! People were panicking in their homes listening to it, but it all turns out to have been a fake radio show done by Orson Welles based on 2001: A Space Odyssey. What a joker!
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on April 05, 2008, 11:31:11 PM
Man, you guys are killing Death May Die lately, yeesh. =)

Anyway, thought this was cool, here's a nifty making of video for the Zelda trailer:

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/199164.html

Depending on how much they're exaggerating, sounds like they could at least edit and release a short film at some point if they so desired. And BTW, was I the only one who noticed that their Ganon bears a striking resemblance to basketball legend Bill Walton?

(http://hoopedia.nba.com/images/e/e7/Walton1.jpg)
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aazealh on April 06, 2008, 10:03:20 AM
Anyway, thought this was cool, here's a nifty making of video for the Zelda trailer:

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/199164.html

Depending on how much they're exaggerating, sounds like they could at least edit and release a short film at some point if they so desired.

It was neat, but my favorite part was the music so I think something's wrong. :void:

And BTW, was I the only one who noticed that their Ganon bears a striking resemblance to basketball legend Bill Walton?

I hadn't noticed, but now I can tell you that I agree. :guts:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: slayer81 on April 09, 2008, 12:39:52 AM
Thank God it was an April Fools prank lol. From my experiences, Motion Picture adaptations of video games tend to be huge let-downs, more often than not. Speaking of which, if anyone remembers the Mario Bros movie from back in the day... jeeez, somebody really missed the toilet bowl on that one  :guts:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on March 17, 2009, 11:52:35 AM
http://8tracks.com/teamteamwork/the-ocarina-of-rhyme

Some are pretty cool, others are just awful. I've seen a few of these on YouTube, and most are at the same time awesome and hilarious. I'll try to find a few more of the good ones and post them here.

2pac w/ Bloody Tears from Castlevania: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PbhhqDaM54
Jay-Z w/ Heart of Fire from Castlevania: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXxcNvg3w0M
DMX w/ Snake Man from Mega Man 3 (lol) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDq8Fc2SMjU
Outkast w/ Blizzard man from Mega Man 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NkCDRHqw_M
And this one, with Biggie, just has to be heard to understand: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ydq0sHIEUhE
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on February 20, 2010, 07:49:31 PM
Replaying Twilight Princess, enjoying it. What's the general consensus on where it fits on the all-time Zelda awesomeness scale? That's partly why I'm replaying it, I can't decide if it's technically the best ever, or if it kind of beats it into the ground.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on February 20, 2010, 08:33:17 PM
Id have to give TP another round myself to objectively say where it falls. Right now, after my first playthrough it's in about fifth place.

1) Link to the Past
2) Ocarina of Time
3) Legend of Zelda
4) Link's Awakening
5) Twilight Princess
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on February 20, 2010, 10:00:25 PM
Here's my list:

1) Ocarina of Time :badbone:

So, it's all or nothing, TP's gotta beat that, or fall somewhere into the pack behind A Link to the Past in my mind.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Bekul on February 21, 2010, 04:55:30 PM
I can't decide if it's technically the best ever, or if it kind of beats it into the ground.

Haha, if you're even having to ask yourself that, I think you've already come up with your own answer.

Myself, I liked it! I liked it better when it was called Ocarina of Time, the first time playing it. It's a good, solid Zelda game, and this is one of the few franchises where I'm not making a 2d/3d demarcation in the series history, because Zelda is one of the exceedingly few game that haven't suffered by being presented in 3d.

Not as good as either Ocarina of Time or Link to the Past, certainly more fun that Windwaker... again, it's a solid Zelda game. Worth playing if you like Zelda games! If you don't like Zelda games...  :azan: :puck:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Saephon on February 21, 2010, 05:15:02 PM
See, in my opinion, Twilight Princess is almost identical to Ocarina, and Ocarina is nearly a 3D version of Link to the Past. Thus, ALttP is my favorite out of originality's sake. Don't get me wrong, I still love those games. But I'm one of those guys who thinks Majora's Mask and Wind Waker are hugely underrated; I'm growing tired of the Zelda formula and I really enjoy when they break from the mold. Link's Awakening is another great example.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Dar Klink on February 21, 2010, 05:18:57 PM
See, in my opinion, Twilight Princess is almost identical to Ocarina, and Ocarina is nearly a 3D version of Link to the Past. Thus, ALttP is my favorite out of originality's sake. Don't get me wrong, I still love those games. But I'm one of those guys who thinks Majora's Mask and Wind Waker are hugely underrated; I'm growing tired of the Zelda formula and I really enjoy when they break from the mold. Link's Awakening is another great example.
I agree with everything you said, and MM, WW, and LA are actually my favorite in the series.... not to say that I don't like the other, more popular ones, I just enjoyed those the most. Also, Toon Link may be the cutest but he's also the only one who stabbed Ganon in the fucking head :chomp:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Bekul on February 21, 2010, 05:47:00 PM
Also, Toon Link may be the cutest but he's also the only one who stabbed Ganon in the fucking head :chomp:

With, if I'm remembering correctly, one of the few, if not the only representations in a Zelda game of actual red blood.

I'll admit, I cheered. Badass Link was badass.  :guts:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aazealh on February 21, 2010, 07:08:05 PM
See, in my opinion, Twilight Princess is almost identical to Ocarina, and Ocarina is nearly a 3D version of Link to the Past.

I'd really like to see you back that up with details. The formula may not have evolved much over the years, but OoT is hardly just a 3D version of Zelda 3 and TP isn't just OoT with updated graphics either.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on February 21, 2010, 08:16:07 PM
Haha, if you're even having to ask yourself that, I think you've already come up with your own answer.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing as I typed that, but still, I play on. There's still a lot to like specifically about that game, and lot of this is subjective (for example, I can't play TP coming off LttP when 13 years old in 1998 =).

See, in my opinion, Twilight Princess is almost identical to Ocarina, and Ocarina is nearly a 3D version of Link to the Past. Thus, ALttP is my favorite out of originality's sake. Don't get me wrong, I still love those games. But I'm one of those guys who thinks Majora's Mask and Wind Waker are hugely underrated; I'm growing tired of the Zelda formula and I really enjoy when they break from the mold. Link's Awakening is another great example.

I agree with you about Wind Waker being underrated, but like Aaz, I find your LttP and OoT comparison dubious. What LttP and OoT have in common are some superficial story elements and gameplay motifs that almost every Zelda game have in common, such as names, dungeon crawling, reflecting enemy attacks, and item collecting to advance the story. Otherwise, OoT was a completely new style of presentation as well as gameplay, with a ton of innovations therein, but done so seamlessly that you could even think it was really similar to LttP (it's a compliment in a way). Anyway, OoT is as original as Zelda had been since the first game, literally reinventing the series and action adventure games as we knew them. It's INSANE revisionist history to give it a demerit for lack of originally now, especially compared to the games that followed in OoT's footsteps like MM and WW, that are even more derivative of its style than it is of any Zelda game before it.

Anyway, on that note, I also agree with you about the formula needing a jolt since OoT, which might be what holds me back from totally embracing TP.

I agree with everything you said, and MM, WW, and LA are actually my favorite in the series.... not to say that I don't like the other, more popular ones, I just enjoyed those the most. Also, Toon Link may be the cutest but he's also the only one who stabbed Ganon in the fucking head :chomp:

Not for that (and do we really need to spoiler tag it at this point? =), but Wind Waker was ironically a lot more grown up in many ways despite it's childish exterior. It's self-aware sense of humor, modern tone and ideas, and some surprisingly abstract concepts and good dialogue by characters (even Ganon at the end, for example) were a breath of fresh air in that game.

Less recognized in light of it's (once) unique visual style is that it also stands out musically, particularly the fusion of action and music in battle. I still can't get over how cool it is that strings come in to the battle score when you draw your sword. :serpico:

TP isn't just OoT with updated graphics either.

Maybe that's not a good thing, since it's so reverential and self-indulgent, for better and for worse, it almost feels more old-fashioned than its predecessors. I suppose I should be playing it for Wii instead of GameCube though if I'm going to compare it to OoT as far as relative advancement goes. Still, that won't change the pace.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aazealh on February 21, 2010, 10:24:37 PM
Maybe that's not a good thing, since it's so reverential and self-indulgent, for better and for worse, it almost feels more old-fashioned than its predecessors. I suppose I should be playing it for Wii instead of GameCube though if I'm going to compare it to OoT as far as relative advancement goes. Still, that won't change the pace.

Oh I'm not saying it's good or bad, just that I don't think it's "almost identical" to OoT. In fact I would say it tries too hard to be different without being especially innovative.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on February 21, 2010, 10:51:13 PM
Oh I'm not saying it's good or bad, just that I don't think it's "almost identical" to OoT. In fact I would say it tries too hard to be different without being especially innovative.

I didn't think you were saying it's good or bad, but now that you mention it, it sounds like we agree it wasn't necessarily a good thing. =)

Speaking of which, the biggest flaw in the early part of TP for me is the wolf/twilight segments. I don't feel like I'm playing Zelda, which is fine, except I don't particularly like what I am playing either (bug hunt dog!). Various other mandatory side quests fall into this no man's land as well, where it feels like I have to do my chores before I can explore or go to the next dungeon.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Saephon on February 21, 2010, 11:41:34 PM
I'd really like to see you back that up with details. The formula may not have evolved much  over the years, but OoT is hardly just a 3D version of Zelda 3 and TP isn't just OoT with  updated graphics either.

INCOMING WALL OF TEXT  :isidro:

Well, first let me say that I think I worded my post very poorly. It's for the best that most  of the gameplay has been roughly similar in each game, and I don't think either of those games  are JUST copies; OoT is probably my second favorite Zelda game, and added a lot of new things.  I think what I should have said is that OoT and TP both borrow major Story and pacing elements  from A Link to the Past. Let's see if I can break it down appropriately:


1. Link is nobody important (farmboy, son of a soldier, fairy boy) who is rather naive about  the world.
2. Link is thrust into a situation and goes to three dungeons to gather three medallions.
3. He then acquires the Master Sword. OoT gets bonus points for having something new and cool,  the Temple of Time. ALttP and TP however, have it in the Lost Woods.
4. A greater threat is revealed. In ALttP you find out Aghanim is a puppet to Ganon. Same thing  for Zant in Twilight Princess.
5. Transformation of the World: ALttP - Link is in the same world, but its Dark Realm. OoT -  Seven years in the future (but due to the events that have happened, everything is, well,  "darker"). Twilight Princess - The Twilight Realm, obviously.
5. Link goes forth to about 5 dungeons, many of them related to elements such as Fire, Water, Shadow, Light, etc. In both ALttP and OoT  he rescues Sages, so that their combined power can weaken or at least provide a path to Ganon.
6. Finally, you travel to where Hyrule Castle should be, which is now Ganon's Castle. This is  present in all three games.

Now, to clarify my stance and reiterate what I said in the beginning, I don't dislike any of  these games. Ocarina of Time was a fantastic 3D debut for the series and I have many fond  memories. But I really believe that at its heart, it is a 3D port of A Link to the Past, albeit  with a few new and well-executed gameplay mechanics. In a more disappointing vein, Twilight Princess  takes most of what OoT did right (Z-targeting, hotkeying multiple weapons at a time), and I  feel a lot of what makes TP a good game at all can be found in Ocarina. The new elements it boasts,  such as the wolf form, Twilight Realm, and the wii controls, were just unenjoyable to me. At no  point did I feel they made the game more fun, especially the Wii controls, though in all  fairness that's more of a complaint that they ported the game when it should have stayed on the  Gamecube. I think the only really new elements I loved were horseback combat and Midna instead  of Navi.

One final point I'd like to make before anyone accuses me of being a masochistic Zelda fan  :slan:.  More importantly than the repetition of the things I've listed above is Twilight Princess's  failure to remove/correct a lot of Ocarina of Time's flaws. In OoT, there was something about  Hyrule that bothered me: why does this incredibly important, supposedly vast land have three  human settlements and a ranch? Spread amongst Hyrule Castle Town, Kakariko Village, and Kokiri  Forest, I'd estimate there to be around a hundred characters in Hyrule max, many of which do  not have more than one or two lines of dialogue. Now obviously this game had many hardware  limitations, and I'm not asking for over a hundred fully fleshed out characters. What I AM  asking for is at least a subtle implication that the world's at stake here, and that there are  more than a dozen interesting people in Hyrule. By mimicking OoT's landscape, TP did nothing to  change this feeling I got. Sure, the Castle Town had a lot more NPCs, but they were also just  background characters going about their AI-patrol business. No interaction with them was possible.

Couldn't someone mention what lies beyond Hyrule's boundaries, or at least wonder what may lie  there? And if there wasn't anything over the horizon, if this really is how large the world is....well, I've got to say that reduces the epicness of the tale a bit. Even discussion about interspecies relations is very minimal in Zelda games. Everyone  just kind of....lives in their designated spot. I don't think this would bother me much if it  weren't for the fact that Majora's Mask actually gave most NPCs a life: they had schedules,  places they visited, errands and problems. It's disappointing to see that absent in Twilight  Princess.



Sorry for the gigantic rant  :farnese: Like I said, I've played and enjoyed nearly every Zelda  game since the very first one, and if you disagree with any of those points (or think my  complaints are ridiculous  :ganishka:), that's really fine by me. Perhaps I'm just beginning to grow  weary of video game series that shun sequels in favor of reusing content. *cough* Final  Fantasy* I kind of miss the fanboy I was when I was fifteen.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: CowTip on February 21, 2010, 11:47:48 PM
I agree with everything you said, and MM, WW, and LA are actually my favorite in the series.... not to say that I don't like the other, more popular ones, I just enjoyed those the most. Also, Toon Link may be the cutest but he's also the only one who stabbed Ganon in the fucking head :chomp:

Actually the whole head stab thing was started in OoT if I recall correctly. The scene had red blood as well, but someone deemed it too over the top so later copies of the game have the scene re-edited with green blood. It's actually become a theme in these games as in the ending of Spirit Tracks Link slowly jams his sword into the final bosses head with the help of Zelda pushing on him, though in this scene you're basically shoving your sword into a giant crystal on the bosses forehead.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aphasia on February 22, 2010, 12:25:35 AM
Majoras mask is such an excellent Zelda Game.  It's my favorite out of the series, with I think good reason.  The Zelda formula was there but it was changed up so much that it became unique to the other games...I really hope the next one does something to break the cycle a bit.  I think Zelda games are at their strongest when they try bold new ideas.

Has anyone played Braid? I just beat it last night.  It has to be one of the deepest most sophisticated games I've ever played.  Just beautiful...I highly recommend it if you like good games, I'm not even a huge puzzle guy and this game made me spend hours just contemplating how to get that next puzzle piece. : D
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on February 22, 2010, 01:30:31 AM
Well, first let me say that I think I worded my post very poorly. It's for the best that most  of the gameplay has been roughly similar in each game, and I don't think either of those games  are JUST copies; OoT is probably my second favorite Zelda game, and added a lot of new things.  I think what I should have said is that OoT and TP both borrow major Story and pacing elements  from A Link to the Past. Let's see if I can break it down appropriately:

1. Link is nobody important (farmboy, son of a soldier, fairy boy) who is rather naive about  the world.
2. Link is thrust into a situation and goes to three dungeons to gather three medallions.
3. He then acquires the Master Sword. OoT gets bonus points for having something new and cool,  the Temple of Time. ALttP and TP however, have it in the Lost Woods.
4. A greater threat is revealed. In ALttP you find out Aghanim is a puppet to Ganon. Same thing  for Zant in Twilight Princess.
5. Transformation of the World: ALttP - Link is in the same world, but its Dark Realm. OoT -  Seven years in the future (but due to the events that have happened, everything is, well,  "darker"). Twilight Princess - The Twilight Realm, obviously.
5. Link goes forth to about 5 dungeons, many of them related to elements such as Fire, Water, Shadow, Light, etc. In both ALttP and OoT  he rescues Sages, so that their combined power can weaken or at least provide a path to Ganon.
6. Finally, you travel to where Hyrule Castle should be, which is now Ganon's Castle. This is  present in all three games.

Well, you didn't need to make a list telling us Link wears green in every game. =)

As far as ALttP and OoT are concerned, like I said, those are still superficial resemblances and vagaries in some cases, compared to how vastly different those games are overall, including the plots, which are clearly and specifically more different than they are the same. Also, since OoT is a directly related prequel to ALttP, it makes sense that they have some common reference points such as the sages, with OoT defining a unique origin story for the existing mythology, not just recycling or cannibalizing it.

Ocarina of Time was a fantastic 3D debut for the series and I have many fond  memories. But I really believe that at its heart, it is a 3D port of A Link to the Past, albeit  with a few new and well-executed gameplay mechanics.

What!? A 3D port of ALttP? A few new gameplay mechanics? That's beyond poorly worded, it doesn't make sense. For the few inherent art and concept similarities they share, these two games are vastly different, like 95% different overall. How about ALL the gameplay mechanics being new and different? Literally how you see, move, explore, swing a sword, throw a bomb, shoot an arrow, or experience and interact with the game world is different from all the previous games, not just ALttP. At best, what you're saying describes a vague way to perceive the general traits inherent to the entire Zelda series, even those retained when the series was adapted to 3D, though completely different and original in their function. Otherwise, by your logic, ALttP is merely a "port" of the original Legend of Zelda to Super Nintendo, but even that isn't comparable to the fundamental differences between OoT and ALttP, and every Zelda game that came before (OoT has as much in common with Zelda II as ALttP).

I really think you're taking all that for granted after a decade of 3D gaming being the norm. Let me put it this way, if you changed the names, and maybe Link's and the Triforce's design, nobody would ever think ALttP and OoT had anything in common, let alone confuse one for an adaptation of the other.

One final point I'd like to make before anyone accuses me of being a masochistic Zelda fan  :slan:.  More importantly than the repetition of the things I've listed above is Twilight Princess's  failure to remove/correct a lot of Ocarina of Time's flaws. In OoT, there was something about  Hyrule that bothered me: why does this incredibly important, supposedly vast land have three  human settlements and a ranch? Spread amongst Hyrule Castle Town, Kakariko Village, and Kokiri  Forest, I'd estimate there to be around a hundred characters in Hyrule max, many of which do  not have more than one or two lines of dialogue. Now obviously this game had many hardware  limitations, and I'm not asking for over a hundred fully fleshed out characters.

Wait, you're denying that you're masochistic Zelda fan while complaining there aren't enough NPCs to have banal conversion with? You're a sick man. =)

Now obviously this game had many hardware  limitations, and I'm not asking for over a hundred fully fleshed out characters. What I AM  asking for is at least a subtle implication that the world's at stake here, and that there are  more than a dozen interesting people in Hyrule. By mimicking OoT's landscape, TP did nothing to  change this feeling I got. Sure, the Castle Town had a lot more NPCs, but they were also just  background characters going about their AI-patrol business. No interaction with them was possible.

Well, you are contradicting yourself somewhat in that on one hand you're saying you just want a sense of a fully populated world at stake, not additional characters, but that you also want to be able to talk to all of them. I think there's too much of that going on in Twilight Princess with forced interaction already, I preferred OoT's simpler, in many ways more free, world. You can plow through it more like the old ones, and it literally had a sort of fairy tale atmosphere that worked well within its constraints; a smaller, but more intimate world. TP is kind of stuck somewhere in between that kind of feel and something more epic.

Couldn't someone mention what lies beyond Hyrule's boundaries, or at least wonder what may lie  there? And if there wasn't anything over the horizon, if this really is how large the world is....well, I've got to say that reduces the epicness of the tale a bit. Even discussion about interspecies relations is very minimal in Zelda games. Everyone  just kind of....lives in their designated spot. I don't think this would bother me much if it  weren't for the fact that Majora's Mask actually gave most NPCs a life: they had schedules,  places they visited, errands and problems. It's disappointing to see that absent in Twilight  Princess.

I think it's an issue of the series overall having certain traits and, now, self-imposed limitations, for better or worse. Though WW certainly conveyed the sense of a vast world, and in that regard TP was a step backward. Maybe some day they'll make a huge one with multiple Hyrule-sized land masses, settlements, oceans and boats, but it's not like they'd be the first now, and instead they seem to have opted not to make Zelda into a full blown RPG world. *shudder* That doesn't bother me though, bigger isn't always better, or more immersive (a mix of a TP and WW type environment would be natural and welcome though). Frankly (side rant), I hate feeling obligated to talking to a bunch of worthless NPCs, especially now with voice acting in every major RPG and every character having a slew of nothing to say. The only thing worse than having to read a bunch of crappy NPC dialogue, even critical plot stuff, is to have to sit and listen while someone reads it to you.

Sorry for the gigantic rant  :farnese: Like I said, I've played and enjoyed nearly every Zelda  game since the very first one, and if you disagree with any of those points (or think my  complaints are ridiculous  :ganishka:), that's really fine by me. Perhaps I'm just beginning to grow  weary of video game series that shun sequels in favor of reusing content. *cough* Final  Fantasy* I kind of miss the fanboy I was when I was fifteen.

Yeah, despite our glaring disagreements and different perspective on the series, I enjoyed ranting right back. One thing I think we agree on is where the series has headed as of late, and that it needs to find a way to make itself new again.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Death May Die on February 22, 2010, 02:05:42 AM
I look at most Zelda games as they're own thing. They tend not line up well. The last Zelda game I enjoy a lot was the four sword adventure. I thought TP was good. I'm looking forward to a follow up.

Let the AVGNERD explain:

EDIT:  http://screwattack.com/videos/AVGN-Zelda-Timeline-1 (http://screwattack.com/videos/AVGN-Zelda-Timeline-1)

http://www.cinemassacre.com/new/?p=3870 (http://www.cinemassacre.com/new/?p=3870)




Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aazealh on February 22, 2010, 11:55:44 AM
I think you guys have got this all covered so here are just some small comments.

1. Link is nobody important (farmboy, son of a soldier, fairy boy) who is rather naive about  the world.

That's the premise of practically every youthful adventure story ever. Including Zelda 1.

3. He then acquires the Master Sword. OoT gets bonus points for having something new and cool,  the Temple of Time. ALttP and TP however, have it in the Lost Woods.
4. A greater threat is revealed. In ALttP you find out Aghanim is a puppet to Ganon. Same thing  for Zant in Twilight Princess.
5. Transformation of the World: ALttP - Link is in the same world, but its Dark Realm. OoT -  Seven years in the future (but due to the events that have happened, everything is, well,  "darker"). Twilight Princess - The Twilight Realm, obviously.

I should point out that these things don't actually happen in the exact same order. The Twilight realm, for example, is involved very early in TP. Ah and the sword is also the Temple of Time in TP. But the temple is in the woods. :iva:

5. Link goes forth to about 5 dungeons, many of them related to elements such as Fire, Water, Shadow, Light, etc. In both ALttP and OoT  he rescues Sages, so that their combined power can weaken or at least provide a path to Ganon.

There are more than 5 dungeons in Zelda 3. And in TP you get 4 shards not to face Ganon but Zant.

Twilight Princess  takes most of what OoT did right (Z-targeting, hotkeying multiple weapons at a time)

As did countless other games not related to the series. That's more to OoT's credit for doing it perfectly than anything else.

More importantly than the repetition of the things I've listed above is Twilight Princess's  failure to remove/correct a lot of Ocarina of Time's flaws. In OoT, there was something about  Hyrule that bothered me: why does this incredibly important, supposedly vast land have three  human settlements and a ranch? Spread amongst Hyrule Castle Town, Kakariko Village, and Kokiri  Forest, I'd estimate there to be around a hundred characters in Hyrule max, many of which do  not have more than one or two lines of dialogue. Now obviously this game had many hardware  limitations, and I'm not asking for over a hundred fully fleshed out characters. What I AM  asking for is at least a subtle implication that the world's at stake here, and that there are  more than a dozen interesting people in Hyrule.

Yeah, that's a more valid complaint. Hyrule was hardly ever a proper kingdom. I've also found their approach of this aspect of the game very unambitious in TP.

Also, since OoT is a directly related prequel to ALttP, it makes sense that they have some common reference points such as the sages, with OoT defining a unique origin story for the existing mythology, not just recycling or cannibalizing it.

Same goes for Twilight Princess. It's supposed to be a sequel to OoT paralleling the events of WW. Of course we all know those timelines make no sense, but that's the official word on it.

Otherwise, by your logic, ALttP is merely a "port" of the original Legend of Zelda to Super Nintendo, but even that isn't comparable to the fundamental differences between OoT and ALttP, and every Zelda game that came before (OoT has as much in common with Zelda II as ALttP).

I disagree with saying that OoT has as much in common with Zelda II as with Zelda 3. It does follow the same formula, while Zelda II was its own thing (Shadow of the Colossus follows the Zelda II formula! :troll:). And while the term "port" is inappropriate, I wouldn't be very bothered if someone called Zelda 3 a remake of Zelda 1.

By getting the stars you are in fact being just like Tim, following his mistake.

Yes.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: DirectDK on February 22, 2010, 03:31:27 PM
All this talk about Zelda TP makes me so sad.  I bought my Wii and TP day of launch way back when... but that was around when I had moved to the east coast.  Of course, though, I took 'em a long with me, but I had trouble finding time to play.

FINALLY, when I got to playing it... I was loving it.  Collecting all the bugs, trying to get every heart container, etc... until one day, like 80% done with the game (so I've been told), I saved my game in the canon room, and turned off my system.

THE CANON ROOM.  FOR THOSE THAT DON'T KNOW. DON'T SAVE IN THE CANON ROOM.

So yeah, it was a glitch that is present in the first run of TP discs, and if you save in the canon room, your file becomes corrupt, and you can't progress in the game.  It is so very sad.

Good news though, I can send in my disc and Nintendo will replace it with a new one... but I was so disheartened I hadn't gotten around to do it.  One day...
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on February 22, 2010, 05:41:20 PM
As did countless other games not related to the series. That's more to OoT's credit for doing it perfectly than anything else.

I actually still like the Z-Targeting in that game better than later titles such as WW and TP, the fact that you don't have to hold the button down to stay locked on, basically.

I disagree with saying that OoT has as much in common with Zelda II as with Zelda 3. It does follow the same formula, while Zelda II was its own thing (Shadow of the Colossus follows the Zelda II formula! :troll:).

I didn't mean the formula for progression, but from a gameplay standpoint running around and fighting enemies in 3D combines elements of 2D sidescrolling as well as 2D lookdown, while also being just as different from either.

And while the term "port" is inappropriate, I wouldn't be very bothered if someone called Zelda 3 a remake of Zelda 1.

Neither would I, but there was this notion that somehow Zelda 3 was totally original while OoT is derivative of it on the whole, which is doubly specious. OoT owes something to ALttP to be sure, but so do they both to the original Zelda, a lot more.

THE CANON ROOM.  FOR THOSE THAT DON'T KNOW. DON'T SAVE IN THE CANON ROOM.

Oh no, you're an original canon room victim? Funny, I literally thought about it last night when I stepped into the canon, "If I saved right now..."

One thing though, and sorry if this is a touchy subject, but what possesses someone to step into the canon, then to save and quit? =)
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: DirectDK on February 22, 2010, 06:38:56 PM
Oh no, you're an original canon room victim? Funny, I literally thought about it last night when I stepped into the canon, "If I saved right now..."

One thing though, and sorry if this is a touchy subject, but what possesses someone to step into the canon, then to save and quit? =)

Yeah... I'm one of dem dumbies :sad:.  Well, the reason actually was because I had just finished the dungeon before that, and knew that the next one was the sky one which looked super cool!  I always love dungeons/castles in the sky (secret of mana, and laputa).  So I decided to take a break, and save it for the next day when I'm all refreshed.  Sure enough, the next day... all excited to play... I was like "Ummm... why can't I leave this room..."  So sad. :judo:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on February 22, 2010, 10:45:13 PM
For me, ALttP rules over OoT because it has stood the test of time. It took an existing formula from LoZ and honed it down to near-perfection within the SNES limitations. OoT was pioneering new territory, so it earns marks in a completely different realm for being original and bold. But it sure is tough to look at now, and feels clunky by today's standards if you take off rose-tinted glasses.

Another factor for me was the vastness of ALttP compared to OoT.  ALttP immediately makes the player feel overwhelmed by the hugeness of the world near the very beginning (collect 3 medals and beat the boss! ... but wait, that's just the beginning!). OoT has only about 1-2 dungeons less, but the world feels much smaller to me. This is thanks in part to Hyrule field, the central hub of the game, being devoid of much action/interaction, whereas nearly every screen in ALttP has something to do in it.

What it amounts to is that the minute-to-minute gameplay in ALttP is more solid than OoT. There's more to do, more to see, on each screen than in OoT, which is constructed like an actual world, and, as I've said before, was trying on a whole new pair of shoes so it had its own hurdles to climb.

Ultimately, there's really no point in knocking either of these games. They're both essentials, and no one should ever skip out on either. The ending to Z64 is one of my absolute favorites. Watching Link put away the sword, returning to normal life as a child, always seemed to me one of the best allegories for the relationship between game and player in the entire industry.

But I've always leaned more toward ALttP as the reigning champ for the above reasons.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on February 23, 2010, 12:19:32 AM
The ending to Z64 is one of my absolute favorites. Watching Link put away the sword, returning to normal life as a child, always seemed to me one of the best allegories for the relationship between game and player in the entire industry.

Agreed, and I'm glad you brought that up, I was thinking specifically about that today, and, in addition to what you said, how that child/adult relationship was such an effective device for the game's intended audience to relate to. Particularly myself, as at the time I was in fact between the ages Link is depicted both as a child and young adult. It's underrated how effectively it tapped into that feeling, of not being a kid anymore and not wanting to be treated like one, but not yet being a man either, and the overall desire to be grown up. Plenty of fantasies aimed at young boys have exploited that theme, but rarely so directly and interactively... and people thought it was just a neat time travel gimmick. =)


Anyway, I've avoided comparing ALttP and OoT directly, as it's problematic to look at them without rose-colored goggles, and to truly do that would probably change our views of both games, both sacred cows. Also, standing the test of time depends on how one defines it, both as a game, and as a gaming experience (I'll come back to this later).

I wouldn't write a false word against either, let alone a classic like ALttP (except to say that Link inexplicably had pink hair, which bothers me to this day =), but I will say a few things strictly about why I like OoT. Such as how what it has that could seem like less, is actually more; starting with an added dimension. This literally added more depth, more variety, of truly unique terrains and locales, more variety of action, as well as unprecedented immersion and interactivity, it even added more personality... just more to the game overall, like having another sense with which to experience it.

These things haven't changed about it since 1998, and it certainly didn't change Zelda for the worse; of all classic game series to move to 3D, it made for the most sensible and seamless transition, like it was meant to be. It once again took that Zelda formula that ALttP perfected on SNES and did it again, making another perfect game in its own right for the N64, and literally adding a new dimension, which has remained the standard ever since for flagship titles in the series.

For those reasons, for which I've also had the most enjoyable experience of any game in the series, Ocarina of Time truly stands the test of time.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aazealh on February 23, 2010, 10:41:17 AM
While you guys were busy debating I beat Zelda II's first 3 castles before sleeping yesterday. :badbone: Too bad my GBA cartridge doesn't keep saves anymore. :troll:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on February 23, 2010, 05:56:01 PM
While you guys were busy debating I beat Zelda II's first 3 castles before sleeping yesterday. :badbone: Too bad my GBA cartridge doesn't keep saves anymore. :troll:

Oh, that sucks, and you just reminded me why I was never as into the original NES Zeldas; I got my Nintendo second hand from my cousin, and though I got both games from him, both had dead batteries. =)

Kind of put a damper on my enthusiasm for exploration, and so I didn't really play them through until later in life. Kind of bummed about that now, seeing how much enjoyment you obviously got/get out of them.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Saephon on February 24, 2010, 10:43:02 PM
You know, I never thought of OoT's ending that way. To be completely honest, as I got older I began to resent it a bit for its simplicity. For several years now I've been of the opinion that Link got a raw deal: Missing out on 7 years of his life, being forced to grow up and deal with grown up situations way too quickly, and instead of getting to stick around to help rebuild this world he saved, he's forced to return to being a child and to try to live a normal life. I'm curious what other people think about that situation. On the one hand, it's like Link gets a second chance to experience those 7 years; the flipside is that maybe he didn't want to/didn't feel he could? A little case of Frodo being unable to be at peace when he returns to the Shire, you know?  :schnoz:

But then none of that stuff ever entered my mind until maybe eight years after first playing OoT, and when I first beat the game it felt awesome and just right. Maybe sometimes it's nice to have an ending where the characters can be happy. It's starting to become cliche to expect bittersweet conclusions these days. That's why I refrain from discussing how Berserk's going to end; I think it's disappointing that most people are expecting it to end tragically.




While you guys were busy debating I beat Zelda II's first 3 castles before sleeping yesterday. :badbone: Too bad my GBA cartridge doesn't keep saves anymore. :troll:

I have a confession to make. I.....I never finished Zelda II.  :judo:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aazealh on February 24, 2010, 11:04:45 PM
For several years now I've been of the opinion that Link got a raw deal: Missing out on 7 years of his life, being forced to grow up and deal with grown up situations way too quickly, and instead of getting to stick around to help rebuild this world he saved, he's forced to return to being a child and to try to live a normal life. I'm curious what other people think about that situation. On the one hand, it's like Link gets a second chance to experience those 7 years; the flipside is that maybe he didn't want to/didn't feel he could?

I always felt sad about it. All of what he's achieved will remain unknown. From a hero he returns to a simple kid. It's a great burden to carry, a form of self-sacrifice for the greater good. I think it's a great ending, like Walter & Griffith said. I loved it then, and I love it now. One of the best video game endings ever, in fact. Few stand up to it.

That's why I refrain from discussing how Berserk's going to end; I think it's disappointing that most people are expecting it to end tragically.

Hahaha don't worry, most people are constantly wrong about what they expect to see in Berserk. :slan:

I have a confession to make. I.....I never finished Zelda II.

It's Ok man. You just don't have what it takes. :zodd:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on March 11, 2010, 04:12:24 AM
Some follow up on the Zelda front. Finished my replay of Twilight Princess, and kind of came away feeling the same way I did the first time. It's a helluva lot of fun and very impressive in the moment, if a bit of a chore in places, but for all it's awesome touches and advancements, it feels old hat. Like most modern Zelda titles, it's just way too easy, I didn't get killed once, and the only places I was even significantly damaged were in Snowpeak Ruins and the Cave of Ordeals, and even then I didn't need a fairy. It's really too bad, because the battle system was the most advanced yet, but there was never any excitement behind it, and it was still missing other advancements like being able to pick up enemy weapons ala Wind Waker. Also, I just didn't like what they actually did do to differentiate it from the others, including the story, particularly the climax, where it's basically confirmed that Link, Zelda, and Ganon are supporting character's in The Legend of Midna. Link is basically her sidekick in what must be the most elaborate side story of all time. Anyway, I'll stick with Ocarina of Time for my definitive Zelda title.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: IncantatioN on February 25, 2011, 01:31:08 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/sj4Vy.jpg)
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Truder on February 26, 2011, 12:21:52 AM
@ Zelda Picture

(http://images1.memegenerator.net/ImageMacro/4004052/Mind-explode.jpg?imageSize=Medium&generatorName=mind-explode)  
THAT IS SO AWESOME INCANTATION!

although, who are the top three figures?
2 of them look like Farore and Nayru (the incarnations) but the third doesnt look like it's Din.(maybe)

and at the very bottom, the lady with the baby, is that supposed to be Link's mom?
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aphasia on February 26, 2011, 02:00:02 AM
The three at the top are supposed to be the three goddesses, I believe.  And I think you're correct about that being link's mom.

As awesome as that is, I don't see Orca from Windwaker.  It is inferior.

JK

I love the sheer number of references in there. :guts Even some skyward sword! It's future proof!
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Ramen4ever on February 26, 2011, 02:52:04 AM
I don't see any of the Gerudo Chicks. Or maybe I'm just blind. Would be nice to have a Darknut or Iron Knuckle in there but obviously General Onox is good enough.
..omfg  :schnoz: I just realized that's Tingle by the Zora's.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Truder on February 26, 2011, 02:55:20 AM
(http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kvhnmsHNgI1qay9w6o1_400.jpg)
well the the first 2 silhouettes match the incarnations, but the 3rd is a bit too simple to be Din.



I love that they added so many little things to the picture like that jerk Kokiri who blocked the way to the deku tree in OOT, and the addition of the couple who get married in majoras mask... perfect! :guts:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on February 26, 2011, 08:29:33 AM
Aaz sent me that Zelda painting the other day, and yeah, its pretty much the best thing ever; from the style to the spacing to the thematic color spectrum, you could repaint the Sistine Chapel's ceiling with this. :ganishka:

The only technical flaw that jumped out at me so far is that the Hero's Spirit/Shade is supposed to be missing his right eye, same for his wolf form, though I assume that's an amalgamation representing his and Link's wolf, since they're kindred incarnations anyway (similar for MM's Great Fairy doubling for OoT's). Zelda's dress color is also an odd choice.

although, who are the top three figures?
2 of them look like Farore and Nayru (the incarnations) but the third doesnt look like it's Din.(maybe)

Sure, it's Farore, Nayru, and someone else. =)

(or obviously Din by wardrobe and process of elimination)

As awesome as that is, I don't see Orca from Windwaker.  It is inferior.

That's less an omission than the Postman or Quill, which is to say not. You should be complaining they don't reference Midna's iconic cursed form (if they're going to include the King's magic ventriloquism boat =), but in general I don't have a problem with the characters included/excluded, it's a pretty consistent story NPC criteria... except, perhaps the biggest omission by far: Alfon, if anyone knows who that is? :daiba:

I don't see any of the Gerudo Chicks. Or maybe I'm just blind.

Nabooru is there in traditional Gerudo garb among the other sages, and technically Koume and Kotake qualify near the bottom, though I'm sure they're not what you had in mind.

Would be nice to have a Darknut or Iron Knuckle in there

Or Samson, or Boba Fett, or a chu, or maybe not some random enemy that would shatter the painfully constructed motif for the sake of a big dumb suit of armor. Just sayin'. :iva:

If anything, I might have had the classic triforce at the top hovering above the Goddesses, but there's reasons not to do that as well.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aphasia on March 02, 2011, 07:10:12 PM
New skyward sword trailer shown at GDC.  I am excited.  I need new Zelda.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2h93tP2U0c&feature=watch_response
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Saephon on March 02, 2011, 07:41:51 PM
Just watched it. Shortly after I realized something that will make me unable to post opinions on an internet forum from now on:  

I think I'm tired of Zelda.


I still hold several memories of playing the games deep in my heart, but lately I'm just tired of the formula. The gameplay will be exactly how it's been, the "find item A after beating mini-boss B, so you can use item A on boss C" pattern...And it's not like Nintendo can CHANGE those things. They're perfect, it's a winning formula. It's just...all that leaves you to impress me with are character development, art style, and story. And while Zelda games are usually beautiful, they've never really been known to raise the bar when it comes to characters and plot. I think I've just grown past being able to enjoy them without analyzing what I wish they had.  :sad: I mean, this is a freakin' Berserk message board. How can people expect me to watch my silent, lap-dog protagonist fight for a few dozen people who have no personality, in order to save a princess who we all know won't fall in love with him?

 HEY GUYS I JUST PLAYED SKYWARD SWORD. HERE'S MY REVIEW:

The dungeons were great. There were about 8 in total; unlocking the doors and finding the maps and compasses were a blast! Each boss had me use some item or mechanic I had learned just a few minutes ago! It was really intuitive.
My favorite part was at the end, after I'd gathered all the medallions and got to the final boss's castle. Man, and he had FOUR PHASES this time. I'm used to three, but HOLY SHIT Nintendo. And then after I beat him? When that girl who looked like Zelda ended up BEING ZELDA?! And she thanked me for my heroism, and I went back to my village? Game of the Year, 2011. Calling it right now.  :troll:



I think I'm getting too old. Get off my lawn.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aazealh on March 02, 2011, 08:11:46 PM
Just watched it. Shortly after I realized something that will make me unable to post opinions on an internet forum from now on:  

I think I'm tired of Zelda.

I was telling Walter just that not too long ago actually. It saddens me in a way because I'm really (really) fond of the early games in the series, but the lack of renewal is taking its toll. With each iteration I become less interested. And unlike you I think Nintendo could do something about it. They could change pretty much everything and make it better. Anyway, beyond the tired formula I think there's a simple lack of ambition in these newer titles compared to the classic ones that we can all feel even through the trailers.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on March 02, 2011, 08:19:10 PM
I don't think we're alone in wanting Nintendo to rethink the franchise. But I think from their perspective, a big shift wouldn't necessarily pay as big of dividends than simply subscribing to the previous, successful formulae of Zelda games.

Anyone who's a Zelda fan should really go back and play the older games of the series. Play through all of Zelda 1, and think of that game in terms of what was out at the time. It was visionary. It did things that were completely off the wall, and really, I don't see in any games these days. You can PAY OFF A MOBLIN WITH MEAT, okay? That's just awesome. And it must be A SECRET TO EVERYBODY what happened to innovation in Zelda games.

But indeed, the last decade of Zelda games haven't made me swoon. Wind Waker had a few great moments. Twilight Princess, well... it was pretty much a big disappointment for me. The DS games ... let's just forget they exist.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aphasia on March 02, 2011, 08:26:35 PM
Don't be so positive! You'll only get your hopes up. :troll:

I can sympathize with you a little bit.  I admittedly play new Zelda games for the gameplay, which is almost always fun.  There's also a distinct lack of challenge recently that makes everything a bit dull.  Zelda games haven't been hard for the longest time.  I used to love beating a boss because it was such an accomplishment, but Saephon's summary isn't too far off the mark.  The stories have never been that bad (they never really got the chance to be bad because of their simplicity.)

It's not really the story that keeps me from enjoying it either.  I can't really put my finger on it.  But I sure wouldn't mind if Nintendo decided to go balls up and do something totally nuts to refresh the series next time around.  Will they? Who knows, people will keep on buying this either way.  I will too, so...I'm not really complaining.

It's like I want my little billy to make A's but he only cares enough to make a B+. :puck:

On a positive note, I am excited about the music in this one.  It's supposedly a full Orchestra now, inspired by the Mario Galaxy tunes.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Eluvei on March 02, 2011, 08:52:32 PM
The trailer made me want to ignore this game completely and play Link's Awakening again.

OHHHHH YEAH!!! (http://24.media.tumblr.com/avatar_271f211bf303_64.png)
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on March 02, 2011, 08:58:03 PM
Yeah, I can't say it made me excited at all, it looks like Ocarina of Time again (literally, even the graphics :troll:). It's been said before, but this series basically got stuck on Ocarina of Time, which is the ultimate to me; though, I can only crawl so many 3D dungeons with the same "classic" puzzles in them. Look at the difference and innovation in each of the first five titles in the series. It's amazing, unprecedented, each one is practically unique unto itself. Since then? Mostly variations and combinations of those first five, with a minor gimmick thrown in. Windwaker tried to be original, but people were lukewarm on its aesthetics. Oh well.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Saephon on March 02, 2011, 09:06:26 PM
And unlike you I think Nintendo could do something about it. They could change pretty much everything and make it better. Anyway, beyond the tired formula I think there's a simple lack of ambition in these newer titles compared to the classic ones that we can all feel even through the trailers.

Oh, I didn't mean my "can't" to be taken literally. I definitely think there are ways to renew the franchise. I just don't think they will; and from a business standpoint, I don't blame them. Lack of ambition is indeed a good way to describe it.


Edited to add:  When watching that trailer, I felt like I was looking at Twilight Princess with a texture mod. Majora's Mask reused some assets entirely of course, but the game was so different in many other ways. I think maybe it's just because MM was using an engine from a game that I love so dearly. Whereas reminding me of Twilight Princess...well, not such a good idea.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aphasia on March 02, 2011, 09:20:17 PM
OHHHHH YEAH!!! (http://24.media.tumblr.com/avatar_271f211bf303_64.png)

Oh holy cow!

Windwaker tried to be original, but people were lukewarm on its aesthetics. Oh well.

I don't know about you guys, but I adored Windwaker's look.  The animation was so charming and warm.

Hey Nintendo! Here's an idea...a new IP! No? More sequels? Mario? Oh...Okay.  I'll just keep quietly buying your games anyways.

Oh, I didn't mean my "can't" to be taken literally. I definitely think there are ways to renew the franchise. I just don't think they will; and from a business standpoint, I don't blame them. Lack of ambition is indeed a good way to describe it.

Edited to add:  When watching that trailer, I felt like I was looking at Twilight Princess with a texture mod. Majora's Mask reused some assets entirely of course, but the game was so different in many other ways. I think maybe it's just because MM was using an engine from a game that I love so dearly. Whereas reminding me of Twilight Princess...well, not such a good idea.

It makes me wonder if they ever will.  Surely there will be a point people grow tired of (almost) the same gimmicks, which will push Nintendo to innovate or stagnate.  Poor sonic.

That's interesting, It doesn't remind me of Twilight Princess at all.  It reminds me more of Windwaker and Mario Galaxy.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Dar Klink on March 03, 2011, 12:45:45 AM
The trailer made me want to ignore this game completely and play Link's Awakening again.
YOU ARE A FRIEND! My favorites are Majora's Mask, Wind Waker, and Link's Awakening, which I think is because of the atmosphere and stories in each of them. MM was pretty dark in a subtle way, WW's graphical style and animations looked so good to me, and everything from the music to the story in LA was perfect(these nostalgia goggles are pretty tight). Twilight Princess was the first one to just feel... samey to me, even Wind Waker's pirate crew and random inhabitants made more of an impression on me than... who was the supporting cast and townspeople in TP besides Midna and Zant? I'm excited because it's Zelda, but I'm not expecting anything amazing or innovative when it comes to atmosphere, story, characters, or gameplay...
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on March 03, 2011, 03:12:22 AM
My favorite Zelda game is Ocarina of Time because... it's the best game of all time. :femto:

Strangely, people more readily agree with the latter than the former, I guess that's why they're called favorites.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aphasia on March 03, 2011, 03:32:58 AM
YOU ARE A FRIEND! My favorites are Majora's Mask, Wind Waker, and Link's Awakening, which I think is because of the atmosphere and stories in each of them. MM was pretty dark in a subtle way, WW's graphical style and animations looked so good to me, and everything from the music to the story in LA was perfect(these nostalgia goggles are pretty tight). Twilight Princess was the first one to just feel... samey to me, even Wind Waker's pirate crew and random inhabitants made more of an impression on me than... who was the supporting cast and townspeople in TP besides Midna and Zant? I'm excited because it's Zelda, but I'm not expecting anything amazing or innovative when it comes to atmosphere, story, characters, or gameplay...

You have fantastic taste my friend.  :puck: Haha, Nostalgia goggles indeed.  Awakening is awesome.  And so is MM.  You never know, this one may surprise us.  I would consider Wind Waker to be the most charming and friendly of the series.  The animation really set it apart from the other entries.  It was cell shaded, which very few games do, but it was pulled off very well.  None of the games are bad by any means, but it would be awesome if they

1) Kicked my ass

2) Made me say "didn't see that coming"

My favorite Zelda game is Ocarina of Time because... it's the best game of all time. :femto:

Strangely, people more readily agree with the latter than the former, I guess that's why they're called favorites.

How does this make you feel? I believe these screens were just released from GDC.

(http://bulk2.destructoid.com/ul/195481-/03-noscale.jpg)

(http://bulk2.destructoid.com/ul/195481-/06-noscale.jpg)

(http://bulk2.destructoid.com/ul/195481-/07-noscale.jpg)




Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Truder on March 03, 2011, 04:08:23 AM
I think Link looks kinda short with an abonormaly big head in those screens. :void:

As for my favorite Zelda, I would say it's Majoras Mask. for reasons stated above.

And if I recall correctly, people weren't too happy with Wind Waker when they showed it off at E3, but we were pleasently suprised in the end weren't we? (well those who gave it a chance. my friends never played it because he said it looked stupid :mozgus:)

But yes.. i would love a difficulty settings in skyward sword:

-Beginner

-Normal

-Veteran

Difficulties PLEASE!
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on March 03, 2011, 04:15:20 AM
How does this make you feel? I believe these screens were just released from GDC.

http://bulk2.destructoid.com/ul/195481-/03-noscale.jpg

http://bulk2.destructoid.com/ul/195481-/06-noscale.jpg

http://bulk2.destructoid.com/ul/195481-/07-noscale.jpg

Not much. It doesn't look better enough to make it worthwhile over the original (3D notwithstanding). Let me put it this way, if you could play A Link to the Past with Donkey Kong Country-style graphics (for better or worse), wouldn't you rather just play the original?

As for my favorite Zelda, I would say it's Majoras Mask. for reasons stated above.

It's definitely my favorite overrated Zelda game. :iva:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Saephon on March 03, 2011, 06:14:02 AM
Around these parts, no one except me likes Majora's Mask or Wind Waker. Usually because they didn't bother finishing them.

Cowards. :slan:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on March 03, 2011, 06:46:27 AM
Around these parts, no one except me likes Majora's Mask

If by "no one" you mean almost everyone, you're right. It's the hip pick for Zelda fans under 25 because it's nebulously unique, darker and more grown up... or something. More likely it just seemed that way when you were 14.

Usually because they didn't bother finishing them.

Cowards. :slan:

Not sure where you're going with this, usually when a person doesn't bother finishing easy games, it's not because something's wrong with the person. Speaking of Wind Waker though, I was just thinking that despite the fact that it's probably the most modern and self-aware Zelda story, it's style really did hurt it and the series. Not just from a "cool" factor because it was cute and cartoonish, but imagine if it'd looked like Twiight Princess instead. I think psychologically it would have been a very different experience, more like you were really lost exploring a vast and ominous sea with Link, less like you're playing with a toy boat.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aphasia on March 03, 2011, 06:57:41 AM
-Beginner

-Normal

-Veteran

Difficulties PLEASE!

It's tricky to design a game that is challenging for everyone.  Simply making the enemies do more damage would be nice, but I'd also like to see the bosses and enemies attack quicker and have harder patterns to figure out.
Not much. It doesn't look better enough to make it worthwhile over the original (3D notwithstanding). Let me put it this way, if you could play A Link to the Past with Donkey Kong Country-style graphics (for better or worse), wouldn't you rather just play the original?

I'm personally rather fond of the 3DS make-over it's getting.  Though I could see where the style would not appeal to everyone.  Supposedly the 3D effect is utilized quite well in the game, too bad that's kind of a wait and see deal.  I've played through the OOT several times (as I'm sure you have as well) I've already experienced all there is to see there.  While a remake will never be quite the same, It'll be fun to see it with new layer of paint.  I don't quite see the Donkey Kong graphics comparison here though.  Do you think it deviates that much?

Around these parts, no one except me likes Majora's Mask or Wind Waker. Usually because they didn't bother finishing them.

Cowards. :slan:

Wrong aaaand wrong. :iva: Probably finished MM more than OOT.  Remember the Great Fairy Sword?  Totally cooler than the Biggoron sword.

(http://i.imgur.com/2zEP4.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/xZ9PJ.jpg)
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on March 03, 2011, 08:05:48 AM
It's tricky to design a game that is challenging for everyone.

They could start by making the next game challenging for anyone.

I'm personally rather fond of the 3DS make-over it's getting. Though I could see where the style would not appeal to everyone.

It kind of reminds me of Skyward Sword, which isn't a compliment to that game. Looks like Twilight Princess is going to hold the mantle for Zelda graphics for a while (if it even has it).

I don't quite see the Donkey Kong graphics comparison here though.  Do you think it deviates that much?

Bad comparison maybe, I just don't like the subtle change in style of adult Link in that last shot (he and Sheik kind of remind me of Kingdom Hearts), and the graphical improvements otherwise aren't good enough to justify the difference or override nostalgia. Less would have been more as far as altering the style.

Usually because they didn't bother finishing them.

Cowards. :slan:
Wrong aaaand wrong. :iva: Probably finished MM more than OOT.  Remember the Great Fairy Sword?  Totally cooler than the Biggoron sword.

(http://i.imgur.com/2zEP4.jpg)

http://i.imgur.com/xZ9PJ.jpg

(http://www.skullknight.net/griffith/manlyfairy.jpg)

"Bunch of slack-jawed faggots around here! This stuff will make you a God-damned sexual Tyrannosaurus... just like me."
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Truder on March 03, 2011, 09:53:43 AM
It's tricky to design a game that is challenging for everyone.  Simply making the enemies do more damage would be nice, but I'd also like to see the bosses and enemies attack quicker and have harder patterns to figure out.
exactly.

in the trailer you see some enemies that take a full 3 seconds before they attack.. they're like,
"Watch out! here I come ok?" :void:

on a harder difficulty they would attack faster so they actually get a chance to make damage on you. (and would cause greater damage)
in OoT i would always stock up on potions and fairies for the bosses and would not use a single bottle :puck: they really need to fix the difficulty.

Probably finished MM more than OOT.
same!

If by "no one" you mean almost everyone, you're right. It's the hip pick for Zelda fans under 25 because it's nebulously unique, darker and more grown up... or something. More likely it just seemed that way when you were 14.
I was 10!  :guts:

but I think I was more terrified of OoT back when I was 9.. and MM was not really scary, more depressing than anything.

which reminds me.. they stole my N64 back when I was 10, Majoras Mask Included  :judo: :judo: :judo:

They seriously broke in through the window while my parents I were away at school/work. and all they took was a bunch of things that a kid would take. (which im pretty sure it was a bunch of kids who broke in)

The begging I had to do to get an N64 again.. embarrassing..  :farnese:

they didn't find my other games that were hidden in a box high in my closet though..
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Eluvei on March 03, 2011, 02:21:31 PM
Speaking of Wind Waker though, I was just thinking that despite the fact that it's probably the most modern and self-aware Zelda story, it's style really did hurt it and the series. Not just from a "cool" factor because it was cute and cartoonish, but imagine if it'd looked like Twiight Princess instead. I think psychologically it would have been a very different experience, more like you were really lost exploring a vast and ominous sea with Link, less like you're playing with a toy boat.

I don't know what you mean by the style hurting it and the series, the graphics' style is the number one reason I like that game. I'm sure Twilight Princess' serious tone and shiny graphics would make it a different experience but I don't think I would prefer it in this particular game.

But I also don't like A Link To The Past and kind of enjoyed the hell out of Phantom Hourglass so I probably have some disgusting taste in Zelda games or something. :ganishka:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on March 03, 2011, 08:01:49 PM
I was 10!  :guts:

Just as I thought! :guts:

but I think I was more terrified of OoT back when I was 9.. and MM was not really scary, more depressing than anything.

It was the first emo Zelda game. =) Plus, it heavily featured cosplaying, followed by furries in TP. :carcus:

which reminds me.. they stole my N64 back when I was 10, Majoras Mask Included  :judo: :judo: :judo:

That sucks, so it was also the one that got away. I think a friend stole my maxed out Donkey Kong Country 2 when I was a kid, which I loved. I had to barter with another friend to get his copy which he'd also maxed out, and now I don't know where it is. Maybe I actually lost both. :ganishka:

I don't know what you mean by the style hurting it and the series, the graphics' style is the number one reason I like that game.

I like the graphical style too, but not the character design. Anyway, I think it was a hurdle in general.

I'm sure Twilight Princess' serious tone and shiny graphics would make it a different experience but I don't think I would prefer it in this particular game.

I don't know, it might have been the most epic Zelda game ever if it had played it up right. Here's what I don't get though, the notion it was trying to remain kid friendly, but none of the Zelda games before that had really been intentionally cutesy, per se. If you look at the first 5 games, they were just doing their best with the graphics they had, but they weren't just pandering to children (maybe it was the other way around and Zelda 1 just couldn't effectively look that cute =). I think A Link to the Past is probably the best example, it looks like a cute Super Nintendo game, but its tone is quite serious and somewhat dark throughout (darker even than Majora's Mask, is it possible!?). They weren't overtly playing to the kids, and if they were they were playing to kids' desire to be grown up, whereas the Wind Waker style is kind of the opposite, like grown up Zelda fans trying to recapture their childhood.

I really need to stop thinking so much about Zelda. :schierke:

But I also don't like A Link To The Past and kind of enjoyed the hell out of Phantom Hourglass so I probably have some disgusting taste in Zelda games or something. :ganishka:

Well, you like Link's Awakening, so I'd just say inconsistent if you don't like ALttP too, blasphemous at worst. :slan:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Saephon on March 03, 2011, 11:58:46 PM
It's the hip pick for Zelda fans under 25 because it's nebulously unique, darker and more grown up... or something. More likely it just seemed that way when you were 14.

Actually, the number one reason I love that game is because of its NPCs. For its time, the scheduled lives and multiple dialogue options the extra characters in Castle Town were a pretty welcome feature. I think my favorite experience in Majora's Mask is finally getting Anju and his girlfriend reunited, after several Groundhog Day in Hyrule moments.  :iva: And then I look at Hyrule Castle Town in Twilight Princess and realize that I care for absolutely no one there...possibly because 90% of them are non-interactable character models, walking in circles. Hmm.

none of the Zelda games before that had really been intentionally cutesy, per se. If you look at the first 5 games, they were just doing their best with the graphics they had

Agreed. I don't know about you, but I don't know many people younger than 12 or so who were even able to complete the first Legend of Zelda for NES. A dark world filled with monsters, an unforgivingly large world map with few clues, dungeon crawling, enemies that could actually KILL you if you didn't fight them intelligently; nothing about that game says "children's game" to me. It really makes you wonder where people get the notion that there's a precedent to easy/childish Zelda games.



Eluvei: I want to high-five you for liking Link's Awakening, but your dislike of ALttP disturbs me.  :azan:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on March 04, 2011, 01:54:06 AM
Actually, the number one reason I love that game is because of its NPCs. For its time, the scheduled lives and multiple dialogue options the extra characters in Castle Town were a pretty welcome feature. I think my favorite experience in Majora's Mask is finally getting Anju and his girlfriend reunited, after several Groundhog Day in Hyrule moments.  :iva: And then I look at Hyrule Castle Town in Twilight Princess and realize that I care for absolutely no one there...possibly because 90% of them are non-interactable character models, walking in circles. Hmm.

I'm the opposite, I hate talking to random NPCs, yet feel a compulsion to for completions sake, so for me too much of that is a real chore rather than a feature.

Agreed. I don't know about you, but I don't know many people younger than 12 or so who were even able to complete the first Legend of Zelda for NES. A dark world filled with monsters, an unforgivingly large world map with few clues, dungeon crawling, enemies that could actually KILL you if you didn't fight them intelligently; nothing about that game says "children's game" to me. It really makes you wonder where people get the notion that there's a precedent to easy/childish Zelda games.

Yeah, thematically and practically those were by no means just kids' games.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aazealh on March 05, 2011, 01:22:41 PM
Yeah, I can't say it made me excited at all, it looks like Ocarina of Time again (literally, even the graphics :troll:). It's been said before, but this series basically got stuck on Ocarina of Time, which is the ultimate to me;

In essence OoT is a 3D remake of Zelda 3 (shame on anyone using that nonsensical US subtitle), which was itself a remake of Zelda 1.

Hey Nintendo! Here's an idea...a new IP! No? More sequels? Mario? Oh...Okay.  I'll just keep quietly buying your games anyways.

You can't deny that the Mario franchise lends itself particularly well to sequels. The story in these games was always just an excuse for more platforming. No other series has been as consistently good as Mario for so long. Slapping a new IP on top of the mechanics of Super Mario Galaxy wouldn't have added anything to the game.

It makes me wonder if they ever will.  Surely there will be a point people grow tired of (almost) the same gimmicks, which will push Nintendo to innovate or stagnate.  Poor sonic.

They already both innovate and stagnate with every iteration. Don't know why you mention Sonic.

That's interesting, It doesn't remind me of Twilight Princess at all.  It reminds me more of Windwaker and Mario Galaxy.

The cell shading is reminiscent of Wind Waker, but the engine is likely an evolution of what they used for TP.

Around these parts, no one except me likes Majora's Mask or Wind Waker. Usually because they didn't bother finishing them.

Cowards. :slan:

What a weak trolling attempt. Have you even played and finished all the classic Zelda titles? The cowards are those who didn't finish The Adventure of Link. :azan:

Speaking of Wind Waker though, I was just thinking that despite the fact that it's probably the most modern and self-aware Zelda story, it's style really did hurt it and the series. Not just from a "cool" factor because it was cute and cartoonish, but imagine if it'd looked like Twiight Princess instead. I think psychologically it would have been a very different experience, more like you were really lost exploring a vast and ominous sea with Link, less like you're playing with a toy boat.

I don't think the graphic style is the actual problem for most fans, though that was the focus when the game was first revealed because it wasn't what the GC tech demo had been like at all. The game's biggest flaw to me is how tedious sailing got after a while, especially when you have to get the triforce in the second part of the game. That was clearly a cheap trick to lengthen the game, not unlike what they was done in Metroid Prime 1 & 2.

Agreed. I don't know about you, but I don't know many people younger than 12 or so who were even able to complete the first Legend of Zelda for NES. A dark world filled with monsters, an unforgivingly large world map with few clues, dungeon crawling, enemies that could actually KILL you if you didn't fight them intelligently; nothing about that game says "children's game" to me. It really makes you wonder where people get the notion that there's a precedent to easy/childish Zelda games.

How old are you? I finished Zelda 1 at age 6. You're deluded if you think the game was ever targeted at adults. Which doesn't mean that it's a "childish" game, but then again, I wouldn't say that of the later games either. Regarding the notion that "Nintendo is making games for children", it was brought about by Sega back in the day when they were trying to differentiate themselves by being the cool guys. Then Sony picked up the torch when the time came.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on March 05, 2011, 06:06:28 PM
In essence OoT is a 3D remake of Zelda 3 (shame on anyone using that nonsensical US subtitle), which was itself a remake of Zelda 1.

Here we go again... :guts:

Ocarina of Time was a fantastic 3D debut for the series and I have many fond  memories. But I really believe that at its heart, it is a 3D port of A Link to the Past, albeit  with a few new and well-executed gameplay mechanics.

What!? A 3D port of ALttP? A few new gameplay mechanics? That's beyond poorly worded, it doesn't make sense. For the few inherent art and concept similarities they share, these two games are vastly different, like 95% different overall. How about ALL the gameplay mechanics being new and different? Literally how you see, move, explore, swing a sword, throw a bomb, shoot an arrow, or experience and interact with the game world is different from all the previous games, not just ALttP. At best, what you're saying describes a vague way to perceive the general traits inherent to the entire Zelda series, even those retained when the series was adapted to 3D, though completely different and original in their function. Otherwise, by your logic, ALttP is merely a "port" of the original Legend of Zelda to Super Nintendo, but even that isn't comparable to the fundamental differences between OoT and ALttP, and every Zelda game that came before (OoT has as much in common with Zelda II as ALttP).

I really think you're taking all that for granted after a decade of 3D gaming being the norm. Let me put it this way, if you changed the names, and maybe Link's and the Triforce's design, nobody would ever think ALttP and OoT had anything in common, let alone confuse one for an adaptation of the other.

I disagree with saying that OoT has as much in common with Zelda II as with Zelda 3. It does follow the same formula, while Zelda II was its own thing (Shadow of the Colossus follows the Zelda II formula! :troll:). And while the term "port" is inappropriate, I wouldn't be very bothered if someone called Zelda 3 a remake of Zelda 1.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Truder on March 07, 2011, 01:21:09 PM
http://ds.ign.com/articles/115/1153885p1.html

The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of time 3DS remake is bundled with Master Quest.

I never played through master quest entirely before. (I quit at lord Jabu-Jabu's belly because I wanted to play other games)
but I would gladly go through it now.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on March 07, 2011, 04:08:06 PM
http://ds.ign.com/articles/115/1153885p1.html

The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of time 3DS remake is bundled with Master Quest.

I never played through master quest entirely before. (I quit at lord Jabu-Jabu's belly because I wanted to play other games)
but I would gladly go through it now.

Yeah, I read that yesterday while in the car, and literally said out loud: "WHOOOOO!" :isidro:

I've always wanted to play the Master Quest, but never had the chance to. And I was also hoping there would be more to this 3DS version of the game than simply a straight port with some graphical enhancements. This just solidified my purchase of the game.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Scorpio on March 07, 2011, 05:20:27 PM
I got stuck on the Fire Temple of MQ and decided that maybe I needed a break before I came back to it. Well, time makes fools of us all and 3 years later I wonder if the break was long enough? This might be the perfect chance to get back into it though. Color me excited as well.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on March 07, 2011, 08:22:30 PM
Nice, in retrospect including Master Quest is a no-brainer, and I'm glad it's in retrospect of hearing they are. Should be a nice challenge for those that never completed it, I remember it threw in what would be some unfair curve balls if you weren't signed up for the challenge. On the other hand, by virtue of changing things the dungeon layouts aren't utilized as originally intended, so it's not as balanced or optimized like the regular game. A strange side effect of this is that the Water Temple is actually easier to get through. =)
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on March 07, 2011, 08:50:15 PM
Nice, in retrospect including Master Quest is a no-brainer, and I'm glad it's in retrospect of hearing they are.
It may be a no-brainer, but Nintendo has really dropped the ball as of late when they repackage older games. The worst example was how they handled Mario's 25th anniversary last year. They simply put the SNES rom of Super Mario All Stars on a fucking Wii disc, along with an art book and sold it for $30. Great...

So hearing that they're adding any extra effort for this game makes me feel relieved.

PS: Maybe we should just have a dedicated Zelda thread at this point...
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on March 07, 2011, 10:01:21 PM
It may be a no-brainer, but Nintendo has really dropped the ball as of late when they repackage older games. The worst example was how they handled Mario's 25th anniversary last year. They simply put the SNES rom of Super Mario All Stars on a fucking Wii disc, along with an art book and sold it for $30. Great...

So hearing that they're adding any extra effort for this game makes me feel relieved.

Gross, and yeah, this is exactly the type of thing we'd be asking, "Why wasn't this included!?" after the fact, so good for Nintendo.

PS: Maybe we should just have a dedicated Zelda thread at this point...

Indeed, though I sure wouldn't want to collect all the previous lengthy Zelda discussions to put into it...

Actually, that's a lie, I would. =)



Update: And... done.

There was literally five previous Zelda threads to merge, and numerous conversations in other game threads obviously; now they're one, and with new OP (edits/suggestions welcome, though I think the thread is pretty self-explanatory):

Welcome to The Thread of Zelda (tentative title). Now you can see me making the same posts about Zelda today as we were five years ago, all in one place! :griffnotevil:

Also let me know if any non-Zelda posts, or ones that relied heavily on the context of their original thread, somehow slipped through the cracks so I can return them to where they belong, and vice versa if you see complete Zelda posts I missed. This was relatively easy to divide up though; it just goes to show that when people talk Zelda, they talk Zelda. :slan:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Truder on March 08, 2011, 12:56:36 AM
I was planning on making a Zelda thread before.. I was going to put down a huge amount of info in celebration of the 25th anniversary but I just got lazy and never did it.

 one of you guys should totally do it though :troll:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Nomad on March 08, 2011, 01:38:53 AM
It may be a no-brainer, but Nintendo has really dropped the ball as of late when they repackage older games. The worst example was how they handled Mario's 25th anniversary last year. They simply put the SNES rom of Super Mario All Stars on a fucking Wii disc, along with an art book and sold it for $30. Great...

You forgot the supposed CD soundtrack, that ended up being a couple of sound bytes from the original game.  :schnoz:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Eluvei on March 08, 2011, 02:51:16 PM
Cool stuff here: http://www.nintendo.co.uk/NOE/en_GB/news/iwata/iwata_asks_-_zelda_handheld_history_15603_15604.html

(http://mediacontent.nintendo-europe.com/NOE/images/interview_content/zeldaST_vol2_17.jpg)

Quote from: Takashi Tezuka
I was talking about fashioning Link’s Awakening with a feel that was somewhat like Twin Peaks. At the time, Twin Peaks was rather popular. The drama was all about a small number of characters in a small town.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Saephon on March 08, 2011, 05:39:11 PM
Okay, as someone who never got a chance to play the Master Quest, that does appeal to me. I suppose I may actually buy the 3DS port now. I'm still not too pleased about the graphical changes though, at least character-wise. There's something off about Link's face; I really prefer the way he looked originally.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on March 08, 2011, 06:14:34 PM
You forgot the supposed CD soundtrack, that ended up being a couple of sound bytes from the original game.  :schnoz:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-3XbeRzISc

Quote
I was talking about fashioning Link’s Awakening with a feel that was somewhat like Twin Peaks. At the time, Twin Peaks was rather popular. The drama was all about a small number of characters in a small town.
Wow, seriously, wtf. I guess I .. sort of see a connection, vaguely. But despite Link's Awakening being all a dream OR IS IT, Twin Peaks is still far more surreal.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Death May Die on March 17, 2011, 07:45:40 AM
Was anyone else as crazy as I was about Zelda Four Swords Adventure? I still laugh out loud when you have throw one of your 4 counter-parts across pit falls.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Truder on March 17, 2011, 04:18:51 PM
i missed out on that one, but i did play the one on gameboy. with 2 other friends.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on March 17, 2011, 05:35:11 PM
Was anyone else as crazy as I was about Zelda Four Swords Adventure? I still laugh out loud when you have throw one of your 4 counter-parts across pit falls.
I never got a chance to because of all the bullshit hoops you had to jump through in order to play it. GBA + link cable (for each player) + GameCube. Just ridiculous...
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Death May Die on March 18, 2011, 01:28:00 AM
You guys are missing out. Simply find the GC game, that's all you need. You can play entire game single player and still control all four characters. (Co-Players not needed and GBA/Link Cables not needed. ) Seriously, check it out!

Plus, the GC game has more than its GBA counterpart. Its actually a upgraded version of the game I believe.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on May 04, 2011, 11:13:07 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPWBJ7TV-Xk

This is the GDC trailer for Skyward Sword. Listen to it for a bit, then fast-forward over to around the 1 minute mark and keep listening for a surprise.  :isidro:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aazealh on May 04, 2011, 11:18:01 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPWBJ7TV-Xk

This is the GDC trailer for Skyward Sword. Listen to it for a bit, then fast-forward over to around the 1 minute mark and keep listening for a surprise.  :isidro:

Hahaha, very, very nice. These guys are tricky. :guts:

Anyway, speaking of Skyward Sword, I wonder if we'll get a version of the game for Nintendo's next system, like what they did with Twilight Princess.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on May 04, 2011, 11:50:09 AM
Hahaha, very, very nice. These guys are tricky. :guts:

Anyway, speaking of Skyward Sword, I wonder if we'll get a version of the game for Nintendo's next system, like what they did with Twilight Princess.
I bet we'll know after E3 is over whether or not that's a possibility. I can see that being very likely though.

Reggie: "You'll be playing Zelda on the Wii in November ... and ... in 2012, experience it again in HD."
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aphasia on May 04, 2011, 12:17:36 PM
I saw this yesterday, pretty cool indeed.  And the normal version still sounds good too!

I bet we'll know after E3 is over whether or not that's a possibility. I can see that being very likely though.

Reggie: "You'll be playing Zelda on the Wii in November ... and ... in 2012, experience it again in HD."

This title would be the perfect fit for HD, I can wait. :ubik: The prospect of Mario and Zelda titles in HD makes me all giddy.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: slan69 on May 30, 2011, 08:43:54 AM
I pre order Ocarina of Time and got a free poster from the GameStop here in Canada. The poster is actually quite nice, it's a little over 2 feet, which I wasn't expecting, I imagined it would be smaller. I am not sure what comes with the pre order in America but if you plan to purchase the game you might as well pre order, you get something for free (I think), that's always nice. :iva:

This is what the poster looks like if any one was wondering.
http://www.gamestop.ca/3ds/games/legend-of-zelda-ocarina-of-time-3ds-with-bonus/308435?loc=bestsellers_row2_col1
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Truder on June 09, 2011, 10:16:52 PM
some new SS info:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckVwh80O2BM&feature=feedu

apparently Zelda is actually a love interest this time around! :ubik: (unless they change the story later on)
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aazealh on June 10, 2011, 07:52:46 AM
apparently Zelda is actually a love interest this time around! :ubik:

As it should be! I'm not a fan of TP's revisionist take on the issue. :azan: The hero & the princess are always meant for each other in my book.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on June 17, 2011, 05:44:04 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bINUfbLV_0M

... Ok. :serpico:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Saephon on June 17, 2011, 07:00:32 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bINUfbLV_0M

... Ok. :serpico:


Now there's a Zelda I could get into.  :carcus:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Truder on June 17, 2011, 08:38:13 AM
Robin williams just got a lot cooler!
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Viral Harvest on June 19, 2011, 01:55:30 AM
Robin williams just got a lot cooler!

Mrs. Doubtfire REDEEMED!
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Johnstantine on November 15, 2011, 01:41:57 PM
I've got my copy of Skyward Sword already paid for. Just need to pick it up on the odd release of this...Sunday.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: jackson_hurley on December 16, 2011, 09:02:44 PM
I have started to play Skyward Sword (got it for my B-day) wow It really is a good one so far and difficult since I've never played before. It came with a CD for the 25Th anniversary with 8 orchestral songs based/inspired on old Zelda songs. Great game.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Johnstantine on December 21, 2011, 08:08:35 PM
With the release of the Hyrule Historia book, I think we finally have an understanding of the Zelda games in chronological order. The site is in what I can assume is Korean (http://bbs2.ruliweb.daum.net/gaia/do/ruliweb/default/nds/84/read?articleId=649765&bbsId=G003&itemId=5&pageIndex=1). Luckily, the fine folks at Kotaku (http://www.kotaku.com) have attempted to translate it for us here (http://kotaku.com/5869993/this-might-actually-be-the-official-zelda-timeline/)

Here's the image showing the placement of each game (I'm on break at work right now, so I'm not sure if it will show up):

(http://www.zeldadungeon.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Ztimeline.jpg)
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on December 21, 2011, 08:20:37 PM
Neat, though I'm not sure how Link failing in Ocarina of Time would lead to the events of A Link to the Past since the opening of that game essentially describes what happens if he succeeded.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Johnstantine on December 21, 2011, 08:32:03 PM
Neat, though I'm not sure how Link failing in Ocarina of Time would lead to the events of A Link to the Past since the opening of that game essentially describes what happens if he succeeded.

I gave up trying to understand the timeline. All I know is that Skyward Sword is defiitely the first since you see the construction of the ToT, as well as forging the motherfucking Master Sword.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on December 21, 2011, 08:32:49 PM
Minish Cap and Four Swords are considered canon? What a fucking farce...

Also, as I recall, Aonume said that there was a real timeline that situated all the games on a single chart, not this three-way split deal.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Johnstantine on December 21, 2011, 08:49:38 PM
Minish Cap and Four Swords are considered canon? What a fucking farce...

I haven't actually played those two, so I don't really know where they stand.

Quote
Also, as I recall, Aonume said that there was a real timeline that situated all the games on a single chart, not this three-way split deal.

See, I've heard the same thing. It was something about a specific document detailing the chronological timeline without there being a separation into three parts. I'll take this with a grain of salt (albeit a bigger grain of salt considering it's somewhat official).

Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aazealh on December 21, 2011, 09:29:18 PM
Yeah I saw that chart earlier and my reaction was the same it's been for the past 20 years: "Oh come on, who would believe this bullshit?"
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on December 21, 2011, 09:42:03 PM
Yeah, Nintendo's full of bullshit, there is no timeline, and even if there was it'd be bullshit too.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: jackson_hurley on December 21, 2011, 10:20:07 PM
A lot of them happens 100 years after each other and theoretically twilight princess should be in the column of phantom hourglass and there are 2 time lines. (saw that on the Zelda pages long ago they could have change their mind since they always do that)
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Johnstantine on December 22, 2011, 01:18:29 AM
I just started playing Skyward Sword. Despite years of jacking off, my arm was not prepared for this game.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on December 22, 2011, 02:06:34 AM
I just started playing Skyward Sword. Despite years of jacking off, my arm was not prepared for this game.
Yeah, this iteration of Zelda is pretty cute.  :void:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: frankencowx on December 22, 2011, 12:11:16 PM
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/5148-The-Legend-of-Zelda-Skyward-Sword (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/5148-The-Legend-of-Zelda-Skyward-Sword)
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on December 22, 2011, 02:18:13 PM
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/5148-The-Legend-of-Zelda-Skyward-Sword (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/5148-The-Legend-of-Zelda-Skyward-Sword)
Many valid points, but as always, he overexaggerates the game's flaws to the point of absurdity.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: frankencowx on December 22, 2011, 02:23:49 PM
haven't played it so I can't comment, but still makes for a good laugh.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Johnstantine on December 22, 2011, 02:33:15 PM
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/5148-The-Legend-of-Zelda-Skyward-Sword (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/5148-The-Legend-of-Zelda-Skyward-Sword)

I can't stand that guy. He was funny the first time, but then his schtick got old quick.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Lord Leith on December 22, 2011, 03:58:07 PM
Many valid points, but as always, he overexaggerates the game's flaws to the point of absurdity.

That's why he's so lovable   :slan:
I always get a good laugh from his reviews, even when he bashes a game I personally enjoy.

I must say though, after re-watching it, I noticed a little contradiction, how he states Zelda has been the same game since Ocarina of time, so he can just make the same complaints but then ends his review with a complaint about the boss at the end of the dungeon "breaking the Zelda rules" well if its different, then its a good thing according to the supposed flaws given in his first point.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aazealh on December 22, 2011, 07:29:04 PM
I can't stand that guy. He was funny the first time, but then his schtick got old quick.

While I wouldn't go so far as to say I can't stand him, his schtick did get old pretty fast for me as well. Anyway, I've been too lazy to write a review of the game so far but it can be summed up by saying I have mixed feelings.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Johnstantine on December 23, 2011, 07:38:33 PM
Ok, here's the official translated version of the Zelda timeline. It makes a bit more sense, I guess. (http://www.zeldadungeon.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Zelda-Timeline1.jpg)

Edit by Walter: Includes spoilers for Skyward Sword.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on December 26, 2011, 11:53:28 AM
Yeah, this iteration of Zelda is pretty cute.  :void:

Here here. Usually she looks like Michael Jackson or an alien.

I can't stand that guy. He was funny the first time he made fun of a game I didn't care about, but then his schtick got old quick when it was one I liked.

Yeah! I wish he was dead.

I've been too lazy to write a review of the game so far but it can be summed up by saying I have mixed feelings.

I had mixed feelings three hours in; it felt like the game still hadn't even started yet. We're way past the point of diminishing returns with integrated tutorial gameplay. Combine that with a lot of vapid and unskippable dialogue and it's like you have to wade through hours of red tape before you really get started (I had to play the first part of the game twice and the second time was brutal). Remember Zelda 1 when you start the game and the game starts? That was fine! A little setup works too like in Zelda 3 or Ocarina, but this is getting ridiculous and only getting worse.

As for the real gameplay, it's impressive, especially for someone that doesn't have a lot of experience with the Wii. It's interesting how they've changed the battle mechanics to fit this mold, sacrificing mobility for better swordplay. In some ways it's more complex, but in others still pretty simplistic. Mostly because I find that most things don't work unless you do it the right way, which means keeping it simple. So, rather than a lot of nuanced sword fighting there's more of a SWING LIKE THIS philosophy (so far). Even that can be inconsistent with certain enemies as sometimes it feels it's very particular and other times like you can just do whatever. It adds some challenge, though I can't tell if it's because the fights are actually better or I'm just worse, but as far as that goes it's been a long time since the bosses/enemies in a Zelda game and the word "challenge" could even be used in the same sentence. All in all it's very cool.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on December 26, 2011, 03:45:25 PM
Oh, I didn't know you'd started. We'll soon have a lot more to talk about, once you get further in.

As for the real gameplay, it's impressive, especially for someone that doesn't have a lot of experience with the Wii. It's interesting how they've changed the battle mechanics to fit this mold, sacrificing mobility for better swordplay. In some ways it's more complex, but in others still pretty simplistic. Mostly because I find that most things don't work unless you do it the right way, which means keeping it simple. So, rather than a lot of nuanced sword fighting there's more of a SWING LIKE THIS philosophy (so far). Even that can be inconsistent with certain enemies as sometimes it feels it's very particular and other times like you can just do whatever. It adds some challenge, though I can't tell if it's because the fights are actually better or I'm just worse, but as far as that goes it's been a long time since the bosses/enemies in a Zelda game and the word "challenge" could even be used in the same sentence. All in all it's very cool.
Regarding swordplay, there are opportunities for nuanced movements and creative thinking, but they are few and far between. For example, the yellow/golden man-eating plants. They change their weakness based on which direction your sword arm is oriented. If you hold it horizontally, it'll orient its mouth vertically, and vice versa. So to score a hit you have to sort of hold your arm diagonally, between the planes, so you can quickly switch to either stance he's weak to. (Of course, you could just simply use a properly timed shield bash making everything I just said obsolete... but whatever, I'm making a point!)

Other than that and a few moments in some of the final battles, there really is only one right way to use the sword in any given opportunity. Which is sad, given the amount of freedom the motion+ potentially grants the player. But by the end of the game, I was basically just doing a quick waggle/bitch-slapping motion for most standard enemies, and it was working well.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Gaahl on December 30, 2011, 01:57:01 AM
The swordplay in this game shows two things:
1to1 sword control is awesome and it ultimately doesn't work.

One half of me really loves the controls. Just standing around and playing with the wiimote, watching as Link holds his sword exactly like I hold it, feels fantastic.
The other half of me hates them. It's two effects that kill them for me: Input lag and the game interpreting a movement that wasn't meant to be an attack as one.
The result of those effects is, that rather than adding immersion to the game, they pull me out. The point of motion controls should be that you forget about the controlling device because you use natural motions to do things.
However, every time my strike on screen is late by some frames, every time I accidentally strike at an electrical sword, it reminds me of the device.
I had a way easier time forgetting the controller when I was still using one.
Another game that suffered from this was the new Donkey Kong Country. All the controls where fine until you needed to roll and had to shake the wiimote.
The core problem of this is, that it is all based on gestures. Only once the gesture is completed and only if it is recognized, the action is executed.
Using this approach you will always have input lag and you will always have moments of frustration when a gesture is not recognized the way you intended.
 I wonder if it was possible to do a system where you just bind Links sword to the wiimote and give it velocity, and angle.
The sword does damage if it hits fast enough at the right angle. No gestures, just physics.
So at the end of the day, Skyward Swords motion controls are, to me, nothing more than a fun gimmick. It was nice to have them, but for the next one I'd like to have my buttons back.

That said, I simply love the bow in this game. The way you  aim, the way you shoot, it's just perfect.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on December 30, 2011, 02:43:47 AM
That said, I simply love the bow in this game. The way you  aim, the way you shoot, it's just perfect.
Mostly agree with you about the controls, but they only really got in my way when the game forced you to repeatedly to a stabbing motion. The detection for that movement is horrible, and ruins those scenes, one of which is A KEY moment in the game. The basic problem is the system normally fails to recognize you shifting your arm slightly in preparation for a stabbing motion for a swing. It also fails if your stab isn't a direct motion forward. Your hand can't be down and to the left when you begin the stab, or that'll be a swing as well, and you'll miss your timing. Basically, I think that part of the game is utterly broken.

Now, bug catching. Whole different story. I had a revelatory moment when I finally learned to properly use the net to catch birds in the game. It is amazing. It's all about the game accurately detecting subtle, slow, 1:1 movements in your hand. I open the face of the net by twisting my wrist slightly, which Link performs 1:1 on the screen, then you slowly creep up to the birds, preparing to make a scooping motion. And then... YOU STRIKE! It's kind of ridiculous that this small, meta portion of the game was my best experience in motion controls.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aazealh on December 30, 2011, 05:40:56 PM
I don't know if I'd say the swordplay doesn't work. Rather I agree with Walter in that to me it's more a matter of "calibration" than anything. The stabbing motion's dismal detection is a good example. Maybe it means the Wiimotion Plus isn't precise enough, or maybe the problem is on the software side, that I can't tell. But yeah in the end I can't say that my intent was always properly transcribed in the game, and that was frustrating at times. Still, overall I found the controls enjoyable and I experienced zero input lag during the game. DKCR is a different beast altogether, as the shake-to-roll control truly is a gimmick and doesn't help the gameplay at all.

What I'm less inclined to forgive in this Zelda are the mediocre (and barebones) plotline and dialogues, the lack of variety in the environments and what I feel as an overall lack of ambition. Not to mention the insistence on hand-holding to the point of idiocy. I don't want to be explained what this or that item is every first time I pick one in a play session. It's fine to think of newcomers and old people and such but they ought to also think of the folks who've played every entry in the series. Allow us to disable it in the Settings and be done with it.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on December 31, 2011, 09:28:12 AM
I also didn't have much trouble with the controls or delay and really liked it actually. Like Aaz said the plot and even gameplay is what petered out, which is unfortunate because I was quite enjoying it. It was nice that there was a lot of original elements and not too much naval gazing like in Twilight Princess, but it's like they ran out of creative ideas halfway through and resorted to time sinking exercises.

I liked the visual style, kind of like classic Disney and a compromise between the more realistic and cartoony style Zeldas that serve the Wii's graphical capabilities well. It has an overall likable quality to it. I enjoyed the townspeople and side quests, which I usually... don't. I think they struck a good balance there, even the collectable crap is useful and not egregiously difficult or annoying to find; it sort of takes care of itself as you play and adds a little depth. I also find Skyloft easier to get around than some of the more recent towns in the series, which made things all the better.

The last act is where things sort of fall apart. Sadly I really liked the game to that point and wanted it to keep it up, but the last few hours jerk you around with things that should have been side quests themselves (reacquire your gear! collect the tadtones!!), something that's unfortunately become a staple of the series under Aonuma (though he didn't even direct this one, I guess TP is his magnum opus) I also had greater hopes for the Gate of Time than going back to one room. I was hoping the rest of the game's environments was through there. =)

The plot wrapping up in underwhelming fashion  as well is too bad because it also had a lot of nice touches. Being a supposed origin story though it had that Star Wars prequel feeling where it kind of ruins elements of the series by trying to over-explain them or because it's boxed in from reverse engineered storytelling. On the other hand, sometimes it doesn't explain things at all, and might as well just be another game in the series.

Here are some specific gameplay and story elements I liked and disliked:

Likes:

-The motion/sword controls.
-Skyloft, the NPCs, atmosphere.
-Music
-Loftwings, flying, skydiving
-Link and Zelda's design/relationship.
-Skyward strikes
-Shields and gear upgrades.
-Great forest tree painted by Vincent van Gogh.
-Creation myth pre-history gravitas, Triforce isn't stamped on everything.
-Fi in the beginning, her detailed analysis (though I didn't really use it, it was kinda neat).
-Ghirahim - Good smarmy toady, foil to Link, nice reveal that he's like Fi.
-Anything to do with Timeshift stones(!).
-Impa.
-Making the Master Sword.
-Levias.
-Seeing Link actually use the Triforce for something(!).
-Showing Zelda's side of the story during the credits.
-The implication that Link and Zelda will be the Adam and Eve of Hyrule =)


I'm forgetting a lot of good stuff that happened early on that really blew me away, through the first three dungeons the game is literally awesome, as was the potential and promise of what could be... but wasn't:

Dislikes:

-Too much STRIKE THIS WAY gameplay made it feel gimmicky when it needn't be. Just let it sell itself.
-The... slow... moving... unskippable... text (holding A helps).
-Simplistic yet repetitive dialogue/explanations. A bad combination, made worse by the above.
-The early world was inhabited by some pretty lame species.
-The dungeons - all of them were kind of rudimentary, not many floors, and there weren't nearly enough.
-Some unmemorable and silly looking bosses.
-Groose - started lame, ended lamer. Should have become unwitting host to Ganon or somehting. Just spitballing here.
-Ghirahim - Maybe too smarmy/foppish, also, should have paid off more, become the crystal in Ganon's head or something integral to him.
-ONLY THREE ENVIRONMENTS BELOW!? Plus, one is desert and another fiery mountain. Not my favorites, and a lot of brown. Could have been explained away better too (young earth, Pangaea, etc).
-The Temple of Ti... Oh, nevermind!
-The harp is totally unnecessary and it shows.
-The dopey dragons, with sort of an exception for Thunder. I liked how the Fire guy was hilariously perfunctory too.
-They're called trials for a reason, and they live up to their name. See below.
-TADTONES!
-Fi later. She's pretty useless unless you like being bothered about your depleted hearts or Wiimote batteries when you think she has a helpful hint. Her mouth agape singing style is somewhat off-putting as well.
-The Gate of Time To One Room (btw if the bad guy is going to destroy the world shortly, you can't go to the future to stock up =)
-The Imprisoned (x3) - stupid and stupid looking.
-Link's wish on the Triforce immediately, predictably being rendered moot. Actually, the whole story is that way in retrospect. It didn't work.
-The lead up to the final battles and the battles themselves were underwhelming.
-Akuma/Demise/Ganon/Non-entity - Stupid, should have just been Ganon or explained Ganon's origin/creation instead of going out of their way to imply it's him somehow, but different, kinda not, yeah, whatever. Could have been much better, but it was tacked on and dumbed everything down instead of making the story or Ganon better.
-As with pseudo-Ganon (he's bad because he's pure evil), it didn't really explain anything. Didn't attempt to be the new definitive Zelda it's being advertised as. Just another one.
-It ends abruptly on an awkward question with a self-evident answer. Not the best closure.


So, I too have mixed feelings. In a nutshell the game started very strong and was a lot of fun for the first two thirds, so much so that I don't want to say it faded dramatically in the last act, but it did; otherwise, it might have been my new favorite. That's a testament to both how fond I was of the beginning and how dissatisfied I was with the end. As it stands, it's uneven and hard for me to quantify; it's fun, but the economical design of the game world is more appropriate for a portable title (which is all the director, Hidemaro Fujibayashi, previously worked on in the series), and something traditionally comprehensive like Twilight Princess would have been better suited to the 25th Anniversary mantle. Play this one if you're at all intrigued by the motion control gameplay and want to fly around a whimsical world in the clouds, but if you want the ideal origin and coming of age story of the series, that's still Ocarina of Time's domain.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on December 31, 2011, 02:02:02 PM
Agree on all points. The highs for me actually weren't as high as they were for you though. Sounds like you enjoyed the game more, so that ending act must have hurt. That water dragon fetch quest is where the game fell apart, to me. What a fatal blow... Right when the game should be spent building momentum for the final act, it instead resorts to mindless, utterly unnecessary trials. After you'd already DONE all the trials.

Here's what I had to say in a chatlog about that shit.

"I'm collecting things for the water dragon. Tones.
This asshole was just commenting on how I'm the real thing -- a true hero of the goddess.
But lets test you one more time. Because, ya know, FUCK it.
Apparently the triforce on my hand, and the master sword arent enough proof that I've already suffered my fair share of nonsense.

"Wow, sure was nice of the fire dragon to cut through the bullshit and give the chosen hero of the goddess what he's asking for."

"Even with all that shit aside, im a little disappointed in the story so far. It had a lot of promise in the begining. Really liked what they did between Link and Zelda at the outset. Later, not so much.
When they finally sit you down for the full explanation it's: "So, there's this evil guy and we sealed him in the ground."

"How about Zodd as the final boss, eh?"


Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on December 31, 2011, 10:26:19 PM
Agree on all points. The highs for me actually weren't as high as they were for you though. Sounds like you enjoyed the game more, so that ending act must have hurt. That water dragon fetch quest is where the game fell apart, to me. What a fatal blow... Right when the game should be spent building momentum for the final act, it instead resorts to mindless, utterly unnecessary trials. After you'd already DONE all the trials.

We're pretty much of the same mind on it, down to exact thoughts. Half of that early high feeling was the potential of what could be, because three dungeons in it was pretty impressive and there was plenty of promise of more to come. Little did I know it had basically already peaked. It needed to be filled out more at the end, but instead became thin and had no sense of the moment. I can't help but compare it to Twilight Princess, which excelled in those aspects even if it started slow with some of the twilight segments (better to start slow and build momentum than completely run out of gas before the end). TP also had huge dungeons and lots of them, each basically a love letter about the series to Zelda fans, along with all the stuff you had to do in-between and plenty of side quests if you liked. TP may have ended up feeling like less than the sum of its parts, and I'd still say the opposite of Skyward Sword, but TP just plain had MORE and set a precedent for my expectations as far as content goes that plain wasn't met. Though, that would be difficult since TP exceeded all my expectations in that regard, "I can't believe they had another huge dungeon, wow. Oh, they're referencing the Kokiri forest and Master Sword in the woods, nice... AND tying it in with the Temple of Time, very nice... AND YOU GO BACK IN TIME AND PLAY A HUGE TEMPLE OF TIME DUNGEON!? HOLY SHIT!!!" That was like in the middle of the game still and they hadn't even fully turned on the dramatics yet.

Anyway, I hoped after the first three dungeons in Skyward Sword there'd still be at least six more but as the game went on I suspected they might sell it short and my fears were confirmed and beyond. I actually wish it had ended earlier, less might have been more considering what more we got (TADTONES!). Also, like I said the dungeons in it are straightforward and even repetitive in their themes. That's fine early on, but it had to build from there and just didn't. Instead it kept going back to the beginning and covering the same (sacred) ground.

BTW, a little thing I liked about TP and they kept up here was having more dungeons that weren't necessarily designated dungeons or temples but more found locations like the "Goron Mines." They took that a little too far here though with the stirring designation, "The Lanayru Mining Facility." It's a fine line, but they crossed it there. =) Still, I might have forgiven them had they added the Faron Sewage Processing Plant and Eldin Box Factory. Zelda is exploration and dungeons, not time-sinking trials and chores, Aonuma or whoever's in charge now.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aphasia on January 15, 2012, 08:23:16 PM
Well, I just finished Skyward Sword!  I certainly enjoyed the experience.  I liked a lot more than I didn't like.

Things I loved:

The Music was pretty amazing at times.  The music in some of the dungeons was forgettable.  I don't know if they were doing that on purpose to give it more atmosphere instead of being catchy.  Skyloft, sealed grounds, goddess statue music was beautiful and surely going in my all time favorite zelda music playlist.

The flying was really fun, but I don't think they did enough with it besides going from point A to B.  I also wish there was more to explore in the sky.  Bigger islands, other cities, something.  After playing windwaker the sky felt small.  Oh, and flying at night would've been cool.  

Enjoyed the combat and controls.  Didn't have any real problem with them.  

Art style.  LOVED the art style.  And the watercolor effect on distant objects was beautiful.  

Relationship between Link and Zelda.  One of the few games I actually cared about Zelda. : ) Very nice.  I enjoyed all the characters and NPC's.  Something I really appreciate about Zelda games is the charm and humanity of the characters.  They remind me of a Ghibli film at times.  Groose was one of my favorites.  He made me laugh, and he had good development from a total douche to a good friend and reliable good guy with sweet hair.  Granny, Ghirahim, Awesome.

The overall story: I liked it.

The yuck:

The difficulty felt random.  At times it was challenging.  The enemies would take off 1-2 hearts.  I felt like it was a step in the right direction difficulty wise.  But I still yearn for the day when Zelda will be nintendo hard.  I was hoping the battle with demise would have several more forms, each of them being more difficult than the last.  

Some of the dungeons felt repetitive/easy.  Some of the puzzles were really cool.  I loved Sky Keep.  But some of the quests could have been eliminated in favor of something more unique.  

The way the worlds were connected.  I guess I prefer a more open-world design.  Not sure how to fix it, but It felt awkward at times going from one "zone" to another.  And like griffith said, desert and volcano zones were similar.  

FUNKING dialogue made my eye twitch from impatience.  Streamline the shit.

Overall: Some very touching moments.  Some awesome battles.  Enjoyed it very much, It's not my favorite Zelda...but it's top 5.  Hell of a lot more fun than TP, I thought.

And Link should've kissed Zelda.

And this was kind of cool.  In case you hadn't heard of them, the Shoebill stork inspired the loft wings.  (http://www.color2learn.com/images/shoebill-bird.jpg)
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on January 21, 2012, 08:41:03 PM
The Music was pretty amazing at times.

Agreed, the music was at times beautiful, but also largely forgettable. It certainly wasn't as memorable as the Wind Waker soundtrack for example.

Art style.  LOVED the art style.  And the watercolor effect on distant objects was beautiful.

I've actually kind of flipped on this point. Instead of being a nice balance between the Wind Waker and Twilight Princess style, it's like a half-measure because they knew they couldn't make it look any better than TP, which is actually still the most technically impressive Zelda visually (some of those forest environments and lighting are still downright gorgeous). Though, I liked Link's character model here better than his face in TP (where he looks like the feral boy from The Road Warrior), but he's never looked better than in Ocarina of Time 3D. I don't know why they couldn't get him perfect here too.

Groose was one of my favorites.  He made me laugh, and he had good development from a total douche to a good friend and reliable good guy with sweet hair.

Yeah, it was really good development how he switched from one stupid off-the-shelf cliché to another off-screen. :iva:

Granny, Ghirahim, Awesome (http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=13040.0).

Impa was as cool as she's ever been, but Ghirahim disappointed me when all was said and done, same with the rest of the villains.

The overall story: I liked it.

I technically agree, liked it more than I didn't, but it felt unfinished; with a little more polish it could have been very nice like OoT's simple but evocative story, which leaves a sort of bitter taste in my mouth that they missed the opportunity.

FUNKING dialogue made my eye twitch from impatience.  Streamline the shit.

It goes beyond that too, with the limited size of the story, world, and number of characters this was a great opportunity to do a full voice Zelda game and really there was no reason it shouldn't have been. Would have really gone well with the Disney style graphics/plot and gone a long way towards making it a more modern IT title without losing anything (other than a lot of waiting for text to scroll across the screen; how did they make this worse than ever before?).

Overall: Some very touching moments.  Some awesome battles.  Enjoyed it very much, It's not my favorite Zelda...but it's top 5.  Hell of a lot more fun than TP, I thought.

Yeah, it's definitely more fun, I just wish it had tried as hard with the story and such.

And Link should've kissed Zelda.

Well, in TP Link was apparently a foot fetishist that wanted to fuck dozens of Ilias (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRa14eIa750#t=2m33s) if he had the power! BTW, if they were going to do a real origin story wouldn't it have to center around the story of the sacred realm in that video? Anything else is just something taking place vaguely in the past.


Anyway, I discovered when searching for his Skyward Sword review (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/5148-The-Legend-of-Zelda-Skyward-Sword) that the Zero Punctuation guy does extended written posts that are a bit more serious, though no more lenient.

Quote from: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/extra-punctuation/9308-Skyward-Sword
But what infuriates me about these bumblefucks dismissing my Skyward Sword video with the argument that I'm just biased against Zelda is that in the very same video I reiterated that I really liked Zelda Wind Waker on the Gamecube. This does admittedly put me in a minority, apparently, since most of what it did right has been stubbornly ignored by every console Zelda since. Alright, locking a capable-seeming Princess Zelda in a basement for the last half of the game wasn't doing much for gender relations but the fighting engine worked well, there was an epic free-roaming world to explore and the cartoony visuals will ensure that it never ages poorly. Link was actually able to express emotion and have a visual personality. The first time I saw Link in Skyward Sword I had to stifle a horrified laugh because his exposed nostrils and swollen lips look like he let a swarm of bees practise amateur plastic surgery.

I even liked Twilight Princess quite a lot, although bear in mind I again played the Gamecube, non-motion-controlly version. It had a slow start and was structurally rather similar to Ocarina of Time, but again the game world felt expansive and detailed with lots of lovely varied locations and dungeons. Even if it wasn't a revolutionary take on the concept it was at least an elevation, which is apparently the most anyone expects of Zelda games. The support character, Midna, actually had an interesting arc. I could only think of her with soppy nostalgia as I barely tolerated the monotone creepy-eyed dullard that follows you around in Skyward Sword, endlessly popping out to remind me that my health was critically low while I was busy trying to circle strafe something nasty. And that excruciating is-this-the-emotion-you-call-happiness dialogue in the ending scene made me want to projectile vomit all my innards like a giant party streamer. I mean, at least Navi was enthusiastic, y'know?

So while never quite being what you'd traditionally call a sandbox game, Zelda at its best certainly leans in that direction. Closer to the 'open world' model one associates with Metroidvania, I suppose, exploring new areas once you've unlocked the ability to go there. And what disappointed me about Skyward Sword is that there was a fairly massive downplaying of that exploration element. The game world felt small with just the three questing locations and rather rigid separations between gameplay areas. There didn't seem to be as many opportunities as there usually are to go to places in the open world you'd seen before and can only explore now [that] you've acquired a certain tool, to find optional treasures and all that. I can't even remember any points when you use the whip item in anything except a mandatory story context.

I recommend the whole thing, but that's the core of it, the rest mostly being a critique of the motion controls, Zelda fans and the series in general, and all the padding near the end. He doesn't cover the worst bit of padding though, when you're looking for the ship and you go to the old shipyard, go through the whole place, play an update of Donkey Kong Country, re-fight an old boss, and... the ship's not there. Oh well. Next! There's not even the excuse of finding a clue of where to look next, you're guide already knew. It was literally a required plot segment of Link wasting his time. It struck me at the time as something especially odd, and I can't remember anything else quite like it in the series. Just the worst.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aphasia on January 22, 2012, 04:47:35 AM
Agreed, the music was at times beautiful, but also largely forgettable. It certainly wasn't as memorable as the Wind Waker soundtrack for example.

Definitely.  It was odd in that half the music really hit home and the other half was pretty dull.  Maybe because of different composers working on different areas? dunno.

I've actually kind of flipped on this point. Instead of being a nice balance between the Wind Waker and Twilight Princess style, it's like a half-measure because they knew they couldn't make it look any better than TP, which is actually still the most technically impressive Zelda visually (some of those forest environments and lighting are still downright gorgeous). Though, I liked Link's character model here better than his face in TP (where he looks like the feral boy from The Road Warrior), but he's never looked better than in Ocarina of Time 3D. I don't know why they couldn't get him perfect here too.
Most technically impressive for sure, but I still enjoyed Skyward more than TP in this regard.  Maybe because I'm not a big fan of realism in my Zelda games.  TP felt like it awkwardly tried to make these cartoony designs serious.  Though I don't mean to be a hater on TP, that's just me.  My biggest buff with TP was that it felt like I was replaying OOT.  What I love about the Zelda series is when they do crazy shit like Windwaker and everyone loves it.  So I hope next time they really deviate and do something we don't expect.  

I haven't played OOT 3D, but the screenshots look just like the concept art...which is awesome.  Though I wouldn't mind if they went back to the button nosed, red-haired link just for a change.  I always thought he was a fun design.  

Yeah, it was really good development how he switched from one stupid off-the-shelf cliché to another off-screen. :iva:

Impa was as cool as she's ever been, but Ghirahim disappointed me when all was said and done, same with the rest of the villains.

It goes beyond that too, with the limited size of the story, world, and number of characters this was a great opportunity to do a full voice Zelda game and really there was no reason it shouldn't have been. Would have really gone well with the Disney style graphics/plot and gone a long way towards making it a more modern IT title without losing anything (other than a lot of waiting for text to scroll across the screen; how did they make this worse than ever before?).

Hahaha, I'll admit his character has been done before, but for his role in the story I found him charming, though not breaking any barriers on meaningful characters.  I would agree with you on that.  I think the series would benefit from good voice acting, quite a bit.  Those characters are just dying for some decent lip-syncing and fun acting.

Just read the article you linked, I agree with him on the locations/dungeons, though not as strongly.  And I'm cool with motion controls.  Which is a good thing, since I heard someone say they'll be incorporated in future Zelda games.

And I really agree about that part.  I kind of wandered around the area just wondering if there was something else to do or if that was really point, and we had to go somewhere else.  OKIE DOKIE cute robot with a mustache!  Whatever you say.

But Ghirahim was such a great dancer!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKUKssBn37g&feature=related


I also wanted to say I agree that it would've been nice to have a better explanation behind the ending.  The whole "Evil just because we need bad guys" never sits well with me.  That's one thing I love about Berserk.  And Majora's mask, the villain was just a kid who got caught up with a powerful toy.  But at least the ending looked badass and had sweet music.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgpuJHLQF98&feature=related Demise really gets whipped in this one.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on January 25, 2012, 01:40:24 AM
Definitely.  It was odd in that half the music really hit home and the other half was pretty dull.  Maybe because of different composers working on different areas? dunno.

Probably, plus some are big sweeping numbers designed to take advantage of orchestration whiler others... aren't. Plus, a lot of recycling of certain themes which I don't think they should do. If you're not going to reuse the original Zelda overworld theme (arguably the only one you should), no need to keep reusing stuff like the indoors theme from Ocarina. Come up with a new one like that game did.

Most technically impressive for sure, but I still enjoyed Skyward more than TP in this regard.  Maybe because I'm not a big fan of realism in my Zelda games.  TP felt like it awkwardly tried to make these cartoony designs serious.  Though I don't mean to be a hater on TP, that's just me.  My biggest buff with TP was that it felt like I was replaying OOT.  What I love about the Zelda series is when they do crazy shit like Windwaker and everyone loves it.  So I hope next time they really deviate and do something we don't expect.  

I haven't played OOT 3D, but the screenshots look just like the concept art...which is awesome.

Well then, if you like the latest but not ultra-realistic graphics in your Zelda then once again OoT is at the center of the Zelda universe with the 3D edition. The 3D makes it cutting edge, but it's style isn't unlike that of SS. TP loses out because it's loaded with the chores we were complaining about here, and what wasn't completely derivative about it I didn't really like (becoming a wolf, "the Legend of Midna," etc). Still, compare the forest environments in SS to the ones in TP and it suddenly doesn't look so nice, but just a cover for their outdated hardware rather than trying to push it.

Though I wouldn't mind if they went back to the button nosed, red-haired link just for a change.  I always thought he was a fun design.

That would be fun, I think the closest they've come is the Link statue in Wind Waker.

I think the series would benefit from good voice acting, quite a bit.  Those characters are just dying for some decent lip-syncing and fun acting.

Yeah, and again, might as well break what barriers you can. This game was practically made for voice acting, they just didn't do it because they haven't done it before. It's not like you'd have to do something truly radical like have Link talk, though that wouldn't be so terrible (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4SLjLen7-c) if done right for a change (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPxY8lpYAUM).

And I'm cool with motion controls.  Which is a good thing, since I heard someone say they'll be incorporated in future Zelda games.

Agreed, the new motion controls and other control innovations (like the running/leaping) are the best thing about the game and what truly set it apart.

I also wanted to say I agree that it would've been nice to have a better explanation behind the ending.  The whole "Evil just because we need bad guys" never sits well with me.

Yeah, if OoT had the perfect fairy tale story and TP tried to top it with a more epic fantasy feel, this one felt like it was for children and completely unambitious by comparison. I'm not sure what the goal was, and they even had one which was supposed to be to to create an origin myth, but OoT still did that better in its time while also being the quintessential story of Link, Zelda, Ganon and Hyrule without any other gimmicks taking priority.

Speaking of OoT, I'm in the middle of replaying OoT 3D Master Quest and I'm doing everything I can to make it a unique and challenging experience as possible. I'm not using L-targeting, and I've inverted the first person controls to throw me off ever so slightly like the mirrored environments, and I'm playing using only the broken Giant's Knife as my sword, so half the damage of the Master Sword (or equal to the Kokiri sword), no range, and no shield (I'm also wearing no shield, which looks cool with the big sheath, like Guts :guts:) I'm also exploring whatever alternative routes or dungeon order I can do to complete the game. For example, I have the Bow, Hammer, Longshot, and Iron Boots but haven't completed any of the Temples yet, just the Ice Cavern and side quests (I'm eying the Gerudo's Fortress next). If I can find a way back to being a child and getting the Lens of Truth without beating the Forest Temple, I will (perhaps by beating the Water or Fire Temple first, but I'm doubtful it'll work). If not, I'll just beat it, get the lens, and then do something stupid like beat the rest of the Temples in reverse or random order. In any case, the amount of freedom to explore and do what you want is refreshing. Maybe that should be the brilliant new innovation they add to future Zelda's: make it open like the first game, or at least as non-linear as OoT where you weren't completely on rails.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Johnstantine on September 05, 2012, 01:37:14 PM
Next Zelda game for the Wii-U will be the biggest, most ambitious Zelda game to date (http://wiiudaily.com/2012/09/wii-u-zelda-game-coming-2014/).

They're using the same art style as Skyward Sword, so it should be cool. At first I didn't care for the style, but it eventually grew on me.

Quote
One of the dungeons is said to be an entire forest. “The first test dungeon they made was a giant forest running on early and buggy Wii U hardware — the dungeon was bigger than the Hyrule field in Ocarina, and the whole thing is one dungeon. You use the gamepad to navigate, avoid traps, follow clues etc. It’s dark, lush, with a ton of trees, foliage, some which you have to cut your way through. Its scope and details are unlike anything you’ve seen in a Zelda game”. He added that the Wii U Zelda game is so big, it wouldn’t be possible without the 25 GB Blu-ray based storage that the console uses.

Made me pretty much blow my load when I read that. Skyward Sword was a fun game, but its aspirations were a bit flat for me in terms of the temples.

I'm pretty excited for any Zelda game, so I'm already on board for this.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aazealh on September 05, 2012, 02:52:53 PM
It'll take more than that to get me excited.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: puppet12ca on September 05, 2012, 02:59:10 PM
just a video on the history of the Zelda franchise not a huge fan myself but I found it interesting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJk7OZrH2Ps
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Johnstantine on September 05, 2012, 03:20:08 PM
It'll take more than that to get me excited.

I could take my shirt off and read the article to you in a very sexy voice?
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on September 05, 2012, 03:46:32 PM
It'll take more than that to get me excited.
Same. Nothing about that stuff really excited me. A bigger dungeon? More trees to chop down? So far not blowing my skirt up, gentlemen.

I've said it before, but I really think Miyamoto needs to return to the basics of what makes Zelda great, instead of keeping on this one-way rail.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Slime_Beherit on September 05, 2012, 05:40:24 PM
From a pure visual perspective, if they can come through with the pastel inspiration for SS, then color me excited. Yes, SS was boring and tedious (navi was annoying?! FI please :schierke:) so I am skeptical....there are no buts, i am very skeptical.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on September 05, 2012, 06:03:48 PM
Yeah, we kind of covered this on the podcast with the MGS comparison (right down to the lame portable titles watering down each franchise), but at least Ground Zeroes had impressive graphics for a current gen console. This has an improved version of a purposely less-demanding style and technical comparisons to a game from 1998. Seriously, I'm a backward retro-gaming enthusiast and even I find this quote quite lame:

Quote
The first test dungeon they made was a giant forest running on early and buggy Wii U hardware — the dungeon was bigger than the Hyrule field in Ocarina, and the whole thing is one dungeon.

HOLY SHIT! Buggy hardware? The size of essentially a big room from a 14 year old game? Sign me up! I know, they probably just wanted to work in the obligatory favorable reference to Ocarina of Time early, but that only adds to my bitterness at this point. =)
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Icelin on October 01, 2012, 06:13:56 PM
Zelda was definitely a childhood classic for me, I still love the series. I haven't got to play every Zelda game but I have played most of them for the big systems. (Never played any hand held systems GameBoy etc.)

Nintendo Zelda, SNES Link to the past, N64 Ocarina of time, N64 Majora's Mask, Wii Twilight Princess.

So I haven't played the Gamecube one (Windwaker I believe)it didn't appeal to me very much very cartoonish looking, I was pretty mad they went that way with Zelda at the time. I have heard though it is a really good game and I should probably check into it.

Also haven't played the new one for Wii, looked decent enough. I will probably pick it up sometime. Just I usually play the PS3 and mmorpg's more now a days.

My favorite would have to be Link to the past, SNES were the glory days of my gaming for sure.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on October 04, 2012, 05:34:18 PM
So I haven't played the Gamecube one (Windwaker I believe)it didn't appeal to me very much very cartoonish looking, I was pretty mad they went that way with Zelda at the time. I have heard though it is a really good game and I should probably check into it.

My favorite would have to be Link to the past, SNES were the glory days of my gaming for sure.
If you like Zelda 3 so much, then I don't see why you'd have a problem with Windwaker's art design. Both are pretty cartoonish. Windwaker's style is transcendent to me. I remember it being not well received at the time, but it's regarded as one of the best-looking games of all time now. It has aged amazingly well, unlike Twilight Princess. You should definitely play it.

That being said, Windwaker has its issues to me. Pacing is a problem. But it has some of the greatest moments in the series.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Johnstantine on October 04, 2012, 05:47:35 PM
If you like Zelda 3 so much, then I don't see why you'd have a problem with Windwaker's art design. Both are pretty cartoonish. Windwaker's style is transcendent to me. I remember it being not well received at the time, but it's regarded as one of the best-looking games of all time now. It has aged amazingly well, unlike Twilight Princess. You should definitely play it.

That being said, Windwaker has its issues to me. Pacing is a problem. But it has some of the greatest moments in the series.

I only recently played Windwaker, and  I enjoyed the shit out of it. The pacing is also a problem. At one point I remember the story just sort of dropping off, and then not picking back up for some time. I thought that the world was to broad for its own good. Took too fucking long to get somewhere unless you learned the Ballad of Gales.

Other than those? I loved it.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on October 04, 2012, 05:51:45 PM
The moment when black and white becomes color... is one of my favorite moments in gaming.

I thought that the world was to broad for its own good. Took too fucking long to get somewhere unless you learned the Ballad of Gales.
Navigating the huge world on a boat with dynamic weather and water is fantastic on paper. In practice... it gets old pretty quick.

If we keep talking about Windwaker like this, Griff will likely hear us and jump in here guns'a blazing. :ganishka:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Icelin on October 04, 2012, 06:59:12 PM
If you like Zelda 3 so much, then I don't see why you'd have a problem with Windwaker's art design. Both are pretty cartoonish. Windwaker's style is transcendent to me. I remember it being not well received at the time, but it's regarded as one of the best-looking games of all time now. It has aged amazingly well, unlike Twilight Princess. You should definitely play it.

That being said, Windwaker has its issues to me. Pacing is a problem. But it has some of the greatest moments in the series.

Well I said at the time it didn't appeal to me. You have to think Windwaker came right after Ocarina of Time/Majora's mask. Which everyone pretty much loved Ocarina of Time myself included. So when I saw Windwaker and the game looked very cartoonish, I felt like they made it for a younger audience.

I know I shouldn't have been so cynical about how the game looks because everytime I have told people how I felt about Windwaker. A lot of people would defend it and obviously it still happens. So I try not to talk to bad about a game I haven't even tried. Just saying I was disappointed back in the day about it.

As for A link to the past it gets away with it because anything was a welcome upgrade from Nintendo. Anyways it wasn't the graphics that wowed me back in the day it was the story. Light and Dark world they kind of did that for Ocarina of Time as well just Link was in slumber for like 9 years wasn't it? Woke up and the world went to hell.

See I always have to give Link to the past the number one spot in the series, even though I feel some of the other Zelda games are totally on par with that game. What stands out to me was that I was younger back in the SNES days. So my best memory of that game was "Oh man I finally did it, it was so hard but I beat it!" (Struggled a lot more then, I have replayed of course it's a easy cake walk through now.) Then it was like *you spawn on-top of a pyramid* "What is going on????" *Open map* Holy shit there is 8 other temples and the world totally changed, I was not expecting any of that. Just something that has stayed with me over the years.
Kind of like FF3/6 you think it's almost done but then you come to find out your only half way into the game. Another favorite game of mine.

Yup SNES definitely one of the best systems got Chrono Trigger, Zelda, Super Metroid, DK series (2nd was favorite), Super Mario RPG, Mario world, Super Mario kart, Yoshi's island, FF3/6, MK, Killer Instinct and Battletoads. I feel like I am missing some but I can only remember so many.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aazealh on October 04, 2012, 07:02:01 PM
Game's great overall, but looking for the Triforce shards at the end is as much of a timesink as looking for the Sky Temple keys in Metroid Prime 2: Echoes. It's a chore meant to lengthen the game.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on October 04, 2012, 07:17:55 PM
Anyways it wasn't the graphics that wowed me back in the day it was the story. Light and Dark world they kind of did that for Ocarina of Time as well just Link was in slumber for like 9 years wasn't it? Woke up and the world went to hell.
It's a bit different because in Zelda 3 it's not time travel, but a dimensional shift. You shift from Hyrule to the desecrated Golden Land (Dark World).

Quote
See I always have to give Link to the past the number one spot in the series,
No argument here.

Quote
Yup SNES definitely one of the best systems got Chrono Trigger, Zelda, Super Metroid, DK series (2nd was favorite), Super Mario RPG, Mario world, Super Mario kart, Yoshi's island, FF3/6, MK, Killer Instinct and Battletoads. I feel like I am missing some but I can only remember so many.
No argument here. Except I don't think Killer Instinct or Battletoads are worth mentioning along with the others in that list.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Johnstantine on October 04, 2012, 07:32:20 PM
Game's great overall, but looking for the Triforce shards at the end is as much of a timesink as looking for the Sky Temple keys in Metroid Prime 2: Echoes. It's a chore meant to lengthen the game.

*cough* Silent Realm in Skyward Sword *cough*
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Saephon on October 05, 2012, 08:51:11 PM
The pacing complaint about Wind Waker (which I completely agree with), actually made me realize something I did enjoy about Twilight Princess. There was virtually no lack of content or glaringly "incomplete" areas in the game. While I despise the wolf/fairy-hunting segments, in the grand scheme of things they didn't hurt the pacing the way the Triforce hunt did. Also I think the TP version of Hyrule is a good size. It's just....a lifeless region. I know I've harped on this before, but the majority of NPCs are background citizens you can't even talk to, and they're all concentrated in one area. When has 5 people ever constituted a "village"? This incarnation of Kakariko is a disgrace to the ones we're used to.

It's a shame; the atmosphere in TP was actually really well done, and the dungeons were pretty good. It just lacked a living, breathing world worth saving.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Dar Klink on January 23, 2013, 02:13:40 PM
(http://puu.sh/1RIX8)
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on January 23, 2013, 02:21:38 PM
I'd rather they spend time on a new game... Zelda is a franchise that by its nature cashes in on nostalgia. This is double dipping.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Dar Klink on January 23, 2013, 02:44:00 PM
http://www.nintendo.com/nintendo-direct/archive/01-23-2013/ (http://www.nintendo.com/nintendo-direct/archive/01-23-2013/)

Go to about 29 minutes in for the Zelda talk. They're apparently working on both at the same time and the Wind Waker thing came kinda naturally while they were working on the new game. Not that I buy that 100% though, who wouldn't buy an HD Wind Waker?
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on January 23, 2013, 02:59:20 PM
who wouldn't buy an HD Wind Waker?
I'm not completely against it--Windwaker is a fantastic game (for the most part...) But the concept of replaying it just doesn't excite me. I also saw a video that showed some more screens, and it didn't necessarily look like an improvement over the original. The characters actually looked less a part of the world than in the Gamecube version.

(http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/39/2419555-wiiu_zeldawindwakernd_scrn09.jpg)
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Slime_Beherit on January 23, 2013, 06:48:49 PM
I'm not completely against it--Windwaker is a fantastic game (for the most part...)

Though they did address that, saying they would "tune up the game experience." Which most people are taking as "we are adding the 2 dungeons we took out." Then again I'm assuming your "for the most part" was aimed at the sluggish end of WW.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on January 23, 2013, 07:01:31 PM
Then again I'm assuming your "for the most part" was aimed at the sluggish end of WW.
This, pretty much. While I enjoyed the concept and sense of adventure you get by setting sail on a huge ocean, it got tedious pretty quick for me. And so much of the end felt like a chore as a result.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Johnstantine on January 23, 2013, 07:33:58 PM
This, pretty much. While I enjoyed the concept and sense of adventure you get by setting sail on a huge ocean, it got tedious pretty quick for me. And so much of the end felt like a chore as a result.

I agree. Although, I thought the overall feeling I got from the game made it worth it.  The HD update is cool and all, but I rather enjoyed the art in WW. This sort of detracts from one of the biggest draws of the game.

As for the new Zelda game, it was more or less confirmed a few months ago. Here's to hoping it's awesome.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aazealh on January 23, 2013, 08:50:08 PM
who wouldn't buy an HD Wind Waker?

Well I sure won't. I liked WW a lot on the GC, great game, but I'd rather just have an upscaled VC version than buy a full remake. It's like with the prospect of a MM port on the 3DS: while a clever marketing move, it's not what I personally am looking forward to. We want new games!
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Saephon on January 27, 2013, 06:26:44 PM
I love Wind Waker. Adore it really, it's one of my favorite Zelda games. But it's getting a bit sad how hamfisted Nintendo's appeal to nostalgia is getting. Maybe I was just oblivious to it in years past, but it's become especially noticeable to me with the 3DS and Wii U. "Buy our unremarkable new console! It has Mario and Zelda remakes!"

Also, if there was ever a game that did not need a graphical update, it's this one. The cell-shading is timeless. Just put in those two missing dungeons, replace the Triforce quest with something more interesting, and upscale the game for 1080p, please?  :griffnotevil:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on February 17, 2013, 09:10:54 AM
Was flipping through the Hyrule Historia tonight, which led to playing Wind Waker in 1080p on Dolphin, and... it looks better than the upcoming Wii U version. As a matter of fact, judging from the screens and videos, they're basically forsaking the cel-shaded style that's made Wind Waker's visuals virtually ageless in exchange for the standard graphical bells and whistles that make the new one look dated already (check out my blooms, bro!). The characters really look half-assed, like trying to fake cel-shaded characters on models using dynamic lighting. Gross.

Also, if there was ever a game that did not need a graphical update, it's this one. The cell-shading is timeless.

Yep, it's aged the best out of any in the series (that also goes for the more irreverently self-aware tone), and with emulators like Dolphin it can basically continue to be upresed as long as the textures allow. Even if this new edition is technically better by today's standards, in 5 years it will look more dated than the original. Dumb.

Speaking of the Historia, at least a third of Eiji Aonuma's write up about the Zelda series was a sailing analogy that was so clearly describing Wind Waker that it must indisputably be his proudest achievement (especially since TP kinda sucks despite trying its best to be the best Zelda ever on paper). Also, while I'm fellating Wind Waker, I'd like to say that the Triforce hunt at the end reminds me of the open world spirit of the original Zelda more than anything else in the modern 3D games (collecting 8 split triforce shards doesn't hurt the nostalgia trip either =), and it's a much more natural and appropriate time sink than the equivalent crap in Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Johnstantine on February 18, 2013, 10:21:52 PM
Was flipping through the Hyrule Historia tonight, which led to playing Wind Waker in 1080p on Dolphin, and... it looks better than the upcoming Wii U version. As a matter of fact, judging from the screens and videos, they're basically forsaking the cel-shaded style that's made Wind Waker's visuals virtually ageless in exchange for the standard graphical bells and whistles that make the new one look dated already (check out my blooms, bro!). The characters really look half-assed, like trying to fake cel-shaded characters on models using dynamic lighting. Gross.

Yep, it's aged the best out of any in the series (that also goes for the more irreverently self-aware tone), and with emulators like Dolphin it can basically continue to be upresed as long as the textures allow. Even if this new edition is technically better by today's standards, in 5 years it will look more dated than the original. Dumb.

Speaking of the Historia, at least a third of Eiji Aonuma's write up about the Zelda series was a sailing analogy that was so clearly describing Wind Waker that it must indisputably be his proudest achievement (especially since TP kinda sucks despite trying its best to be the best Zelda ever on paper). Also, while I'm fellating Wind Waker, I'd like to say that the Triforce hunt at the end reminds me of the open world spirit of the original Zelda more than anything else in the modern 3D games (collecting 8 split triforce shards doesn't hurt the nostalgia trip either =), and it's a much more natural and appropriate time sink than the equivalent crap in Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword.

I agree with you 100%. Initially, I was going to get a Wii-U at the thought of WW being in HD, but not THAT type of HD.

Also, I'm incredibly jealous of your Historia. There's already a wait list for the next batch. I'm on it, and should have it next week. But, being a brat, I want it now.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on February 18, 2013, 10:42:38 PM
I agree with you 100%. Initially, I was going to get a Wii-U at the thought of WW being in HD, but not THAT type of HD.

I'm assuming they're going to update the controls to be like Skyward Sword's, and maybe allow you to do some cool map stuff on the new controller screen (though perhaps my expectations are still too high), but it begs the question... why not do Skyward Sword in HD, make it look basically like a classic Disney movie you can play, and totally blow it out with full voice (about the most urgent technical update the Zelda series needs). It wouldn't feel so much like a lame remake since its still relatively recent, more like a special updated edition for the Wii U. That's much more enticing than a 10 year old game one can already play a better version of on their PC. Then again, I'm already working on that for my copy of Skyward Sword too:

http://kotaku.com/5866481/how-to-play-wii-games-in-high-definition-on-your-pc
http://kotaku.com/5860550/skyward-sword-running-on-pc-looks-gorgeous

Still, one can't add the voice or enhance the graphics beyond what's already there.

Also, I'm incredibly jealous of your Historia. There's already a wait list for the next batch. I'm on it, and should have it next week. But, being a brat, I want it now.

Yeah, I'm still discovering all the little fun things about it (I even like how they approach the BS timeline, the explanation feels like it was written by some wizard-lawyer). It also makes me wish Skyward Sword hadn't petered out since there's so much space dedicated to it and there's still a lot to like about it despite it not reaching its potential. You know, if they could find a way to smash Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess together you really would have the best Zelda game ever; they basically have what the other is missing. Oh wait, they did do that, it's called Ocarina (the best game) of (all) Time. =)
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Johnstantine on June 04, 2013, 01:53:29 PM
Oracle of Ages and Oracle of Seasons are both available for download on the DS for $4.99 a piece until June 20th. Might be worth it, but I've never played either game.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on June 16, 2013, 09:28:54 PM
(http://e3.nintendo.com/_ui/images/games/detail/legend-of-zelda-a-link-between-worlds/logo.jpg)(http://e3.nintendo.com/_ui/images/games/detail/legend-of-zelda-a-link-between-worlds/char.png)

http://e3.nintendo.com/games/detail/legend-of-zelda-a-link-between-worlds/

So it looks like the wall walking is not just one of a few new wrinkles to the gameplay, but THE wrinkle. The title and logo are so-so, like what's with that ugly, asymmetrical subtitle? If you're going to try to crib everything about Zelda III, at least use the classic LoZ font. (http://www.skullknight.net/griffith/nerdrage.gif)

Anyway, combined with the news of Yoshi's NEW Island (http://e3.nintendo.com/games/detail/yoshis-new-island/), this sure seems a lot less special and a lot more like Nintendo is just rolling out remixed versions of classic SNES titles for 3DS like it's a thing now (plus that new Mario World furry game (http://e3.nintendo.com/games/detail/super-mario-3d-world/) for the Wii U =). Look out for NEW Super NEW Metroid NEW 3 NEW D next (not that I'd mind, actually)!
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on June 17, 2013, 01:49:33 AM
They didn't show too much off at E3, but I just read an interview with series director Eiji Aonuma in EDGE magazine where he talks a little bit more about why they chose this project, and what we can expect.


That being said, I don't have much faith in Aonuma anymore. I can't remember the last time a Zelda game truly affected me. Probably OoT. But I'm holding out hope that despite that this appears to be the retread of all retreads (I wonder if there will be a "returning to the well" sequence to collect a heart fragment. Probably!), I hold out hope that there will be something special about this game to warrant a return to the older style.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Johnstantine on June 17, 2013, 03:24:56 AM
The combat had become slow in the 3D games? What...I don't even...

Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on June 17, 2013, 10:22:50 AM
The combat had become slow in the 3D games? What...I don't even...
I don't know what's confusing to you. It definitely slowed down between Zelda 3 and Ocarina of Time. Taking one enemy down then turning around, hitting another, then charging, and taking out a whole area full of them took seconds. Where in OoT that would involve a lot of Z targeting.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on August 29, 2013, 10:33:04 AM
Box art for Link Between Worlds:

(http://31.media.tumblr.com/90df0b9bb4061662d622ee6d10def743/tumblr_ms944ilMm01qzp9weo1_1280.jpg)
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aazealh on August 29, 2013, 10:52:17 AM
Looks good.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Johnstantine on October 11, 2013, 07:55:44 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wckAIH6XEac (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wckAIH6XEac)

New trailer for Link Between Worlds. Welcome to the land of...Lorule!
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on October 11, 2013, 09:33:46 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wckAIH6XEac (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wckAIH6XEac)

New trailer for Link Between Worlds. Welcome to the land of...Lorule!
The less I know the better at this point. Already have the game reserved.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Johnstantine on October 12, 2013, 04:09:34 AM
The less I know the better at this point. Already have the game reserved.

I wasn't on board until about a week ago. Now I'm actually excited for it.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aazealh on October 12, 2013, 07:31:15 AM
Wow, it's coming out already? Well I sure hope it's good... Hurts me to say so but I'll wait for reviews before I buy it.

EDIT: Fuck that, I preordered it. :ganishka:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Johnstantine on October 14, 2013, 08:52:13 PM
Wow, it's coming out already? Well I sure hope it's good... Hurts me to say so but I'll wait for reviews before I buy it.

EDIT: Fuck that, I preordered it. :ganishka:

My man.

I preordered it through Amazon. Game Stop is having a special where you get a free copy of Oracle of Seasons if you preorder it through them.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Dar Klink on October 17, 2013, 08:45:17 PM
Finally started playing Skyward Sword again. I had a hard time getting into it before because of the very slow start and the fact that I got Dark Souls at the same time. I beat the first dungeon and really enjoyed the fight with Ghirahim. That being said, I still don't really like the motion controls that much, it's fun as a gimmick but not really as a main gameplay point. Controlling the flying beetle and bird is beyond annoying for me. I guess I'm supposed to hold the wiimote like a paper airplane? I wish I could use the gamecube controller and have full camera control like in WW and the Gamecube Twilight Princess, but it is nice aiming the bow/slingshot with a pointer.

Either way, I hope I can get over my controller gripes and find the game enjoyable in the end.


The reason I got back into SS is because of these nice 30-40 minute reviews by Matthewmatosis on youtube, he does each of the 3D Zelda games and I mostly agree with what he has to say about them. I haven't watched his SS review yet since I haven't beat the game, so I wonder if he'll point out stuff I like or dislike about it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o908SWJ8ulc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o908SWJ8ulc)

He also did some good MGS1-4 reviews that I watched.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Johnstantine on October 19, 2013, 04:11:36 AM
Finally started playing Skyward Sword again. I had a hard time getting into it before because of the very slow start and the fact that I got Dark Souls at the same time. I beat the first dungeon and really enjoyed the fight with Ghirahim. That being said, I still don't really like the motion controls that much, it's fun as a gimmick but not really as a main gameplay point. Controlling the flying beetle and bird is beyond annoying for me. I guess I'm supposed to hold the wiimote like a paper airplane? I wish I could use the gamecube controller and have full camera control like in WW and the Gamecube Twilight Princess, but it is nice aiming the bow/slingshot with a pointer.

Either way, I hope I can get over my controller gripes and find the game enjoyable in the end.


The reason I got back into SS is because of these nice 30-40 minute reviews by Matthewmatosis on youtube, he does each of the 3D Zelda games and I mostly agree with what he has to say about them. I haven't watched his SS review yet since I haven't beat the game, so I wonder if he'll point out stuff I like or dislike about it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o908SWJ8ulc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o908SWJ8ulc)

He also did some good MGS1-4 reviews that I watched.

I thought Skyward Sword was the weakest of the 3D Zelda games. It took me months to beat because it just didn't do a whole lot for me. The final boss fight is pretty fun, but overall the game is beyond tedious and lacks the charm of the open world (well, ZELDA style open world) the other games had.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on October 19, 2013, 10:28:49 PM
I'm pre-ordering THIS:

http://store.nintendo.co.uk/3ds-hardware/nintendo-3ds-xl-the-legend-of-zelda-a-link-between-worlds-limited-edition/10848361.html

(http://thehut.pantherssl.com/productimg/0/300/300/61/10848361-1381753985-150669.jpg)

Now I'm glad I held off on the black XL. Apparently, it's coming to the USA (http://store.nintendo.co.uk/3ds-hardware/nintendo-3ds-xl-the-legend-of-zelda-a-link-between-worlds-limited-edition/10848361.html). I sure hope so, because I'm mighty tempted to order this anyway. =)
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on October 19, 2013, 10:41:08 PM
Yeah, I saw that the other day, and felt SLIGHTLY bad for having already got a 3DS XL. But only slightly  :guts:

Glad to hear you're on the bandwagon for the new game. Thing's right around the corner.  :daiba:

That being said, I still don't really like the motion controls that much, it's fun as a gimmick but not really as a main gameplay point. Controlling the flying beetle and bird is beyond annoying for me. I guess I'm supposed to hold the wiimote like a paper airplane? I wish I could use the gamecube controller and have full camera control like in WW and the Gamecube Twilight Princess, but it is nice aiming the bow/slingshot with a pointer.
Overall I agree that the control mechanics are a bit unnecessary, but there are a few circumstances where I thought it was pretty incredible. Dueling, once you get a hang for it, is pretty awesome. And my favorite moment in that game was bug catching. Doing it successfully required you to really subtly move your wrist, it was unlike anything I've done in a game before.

The rest of the game wasn't very memorable, unfortunately. I loved the setting, but indeed it's too linear and handholdy.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Johnstantine on November 22, 2013, 08:14:33 PM
Just picked up Link Between Worlds today. Gonna start on it tonight.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on November 22, 2013, 08:29:34 PM
Just picked up Link Between Worlds today. Gonna start on it tonight.
Mine is late... I should have just downloaded it, it came out at midnight.  :judo:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Johnstantine on November 22, 2013, 09:49:54 PM
Mine is late... I should have just downloaded it, it came out at midnight.  :judo:

That's awful.

Did you order it from Amazon?

Edit: Been playing it for a few hours now. I think this game is the shot in the arm that the series needed. Haven't had this much fun with a Zelda game since Majora's Mask (or Wind Waker). The story starts off almost immediately (just like LttP), which is more than can be said for the past four or five titles.

So far I'm very impressed with how fun it is.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aazealh on November 23, 2013, 10:21:44 AM
Edit: Been playing it for a few hours now. I think this game is the shot in the arm that the series needed. Haven't had this much fun with a Zelda game since Majora's Mask (or Wind Waker). The story starts off almost immediately (just like LttP), which is more than can be said for the past four or five titles.

So far I'm very impressed with how fun it is.

I've played for several hours myself and while it is indeed fun, so far it's a little too close to being a straight remake of Zelda 3 for my taste. I hope that changes after the first part is done with.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on November 24, 2013, 07:15:29 AM
The wall walking is certainly a game changer with a ton of potential; video doesn't do the experience justice! Other than that I don't really see it being that much different than the typical Zelda fare so far (same fun, same warts for better or worse). The whole Zelda 3 thing is nostalgic but also a bit frustrating by comparison (it is but it isn't, ya know what I mean?) It's not even the same Link, boo! If you're going to make a sequel to Zelda 3, don't retread all the "Link, you're just a kid!" or "Could you be the hero of prophecy!?" tropes from literally every other Zelda game. Give us the rarer established veteran Link everyone legitimately respects and continue his story. Big misstep there in my book.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on November 24, 2013, 02:47:40 PM
I'm about 6 hours into Zelda. Enjoying it, but it's not blowing my skirt up. The problem is I've played Zelda 3 probably 5 times, and this game's environment and even the puzzles play so similarly to it that it's all a little predictable. The game definitely got more interesting to me once I get the Master Sword and the world opens up a bit more (same as before).

There are a lot of small things that bug me about the design and presentation, along with many things that are pretty cute--the save game sound for example, always makes me smile. I also really love how snappy Link moves and attacks. It's the speed with I've always wanted in a game like this.

It's certainly a great game. But it suffers from being trapped within a comparison to one of the greatest games of all time.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Johnstantine on November 24, 2013, 06:47:21 PM
I'm about 6 hours into Zelda. Enjoying it, but it's not blowing my skirt up. The problem is I've played Zelda 3 probably 5 times, and this game's environment and even the puzzles play so similarly to it that it's all a little predictable. The game definitely got more interesting to me once I get the Master Sword and the world opens up a bit more (same as before).

There are a lot of small things that bug me about the design and presentation, along with many things that are pretty cute--the save game sound for example, always makes me smile. I also really love how snappy Link moves and attacks. It's the speed with I've always wanted in a game like this.

It's certainly a great game. But it suffers from being trapped within a comparison to one of the greatest games of all time.

I agree 100%. When I said it was the shot in the arm the title needed, I was comparing it to the droll boringness of Skyward Sword.

One thing about LBW is that, man, it's so ridiculously easy.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on November 24, 2013, 07:28:12 PM
One thing about LBW is that, man, it's so ridiculously easy.
The Dark World bosses so far have been much more challenging and fun.  The first segment of the game is indeed absurdly easy.

Maybe it'll keep to the Mario 3D Land difficulty curve, where the first half of the game is a breeze and the last half is designed for people who have actually played games before  :ganishka:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aazealh on November 24, 2013, 10:49:42 PM
The Dark World bosses so far have been much more challenging and fun.  The first segment of the game is indeed absurdly easy.

Maybe it'll keep to the Mario 3D Land difficulty curve, where the first half of the game is a breeze and the last half is designed for people who have actually played games before  :ganishka:

I finished the game about 30 minutes ago (15 hours total play time, missing some hearts and other side stuff), and I have to disagree when it comes to Dark World bosses being harder. There's maybe a couple that were somewhat challenging, but I got them all of my first try (never got to see the game over screen actually), and quite a few were insultingly easy. Never bothered with potions either, just used fairies (I always loved the fairies...). The kicker is that I got the blue tunic last, it was the last dungeon I did... I got it and then got the red tunic like 45 mn later. The last boss was tough enough compared to the others, but again I got him on my first try.

There's a "Hero Mode" that's harder once you complete the game, but I doubt I'll give it a shot in the near future. I'll try to get everything in my current game instead.
Overall, what can I say... The game is nice, very nice even. I played it quite intensively so that's a testimony to its appeal. On the other hand, the challenge was clearly lacking. Kiddy gloves were still on. I also wish the game had been less similar to Zelda 3, at least as far as the world layout is concerned. The same caves with the same treasures in them... Even if I hadn't played the original again since I first finished it, I'd still have felt a bit cheated.

In a way, it seemed less complex than Zelda 3 to me, despite the new "painting" mechanic. In truth it's probably more that it didn't add enough new stuff for my taste...
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on November 25, 2013, 01:47:47 AM
I have to disagree when it comes to Dark World bosses being harder. There's maybe a couple that were somewhat challenging, but I got them all of my first try (never got to see the game over screen actually), and quite a few were insultingly easy.
The first time I died in the game was when I died twice in a row on the first Lorule boss I faced (dark dungeon, rupee covered guy), because I kept trying to use the hammer, the expected way to take down his mask. And even when I'd figured it out, he was certainly more challenging than the previous bosses. Took off 3 hearts per hit, and a small window to dodge his shards. Definitely a notch up on the difficulty from before, but no deaths since.

Quote
Never bothered with potions either, just used fairies (I always loved the fairies...).
How do you bottle them? Normally I can just use an empty bottle as an item and scoop them that way, but it doesn't work. And if there's a net, I don't have it yet...

Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Johnstantine on November 25, 2013, 03:37:10 AM
The first time I died in the game was when I died twice in a row on the first Lorule boss I faced (dark dungeon, rupee covered guy), because I kept trying to use the hammer, the expected way to take down his mask. And even when I'd figured it out, he was certainly more challenging than the previous bosses. Took off 3 hearts per hit, and a small window to dodge his shards. Definitely a notch up on the difficulty from before, but no deaths since.
How do you bottle them? Normally I can just use an empty bottle as an item and scoop them that way, but it doesn't work. And if there's a net, I don't have it yet...

You get the net in Kakariko village, in the house with a giant bug on the top of it.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aazealh on November 25, 2013, 09:30:51 AM
The first time I died in the game was when I died twice in a row on the first Lorule boss I faced (dark dungeon, rupee covered guy), because I kept trying to use the hammer, the expected way to take down his mask. And even when I'd figured it out, he was certainly more challenging than the previous bosses. Took off 3 hearts per hit, and a small window to dodge his shards. Definitely a notch up on the difficulty from before, but no deaths since.

That's the second to last boss I did. The first was the thief boss. I didn't have too much trouble with the rupee beast, but I didn't try to use the hammer at all. Following the tried and true recipe that if an item (in this case, bombs) is what's used throughout a dungeon, the boss battle will feature it as well.

Anyways, without fairies or potions I can see how you'd have more trouble, those allow for a good margin of error. I have more to say about the game, the renting system for items and such, but I guess I'll wait until everybody's finished it.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on November 27, 2013, 12:54:35 AM
I'm about 3/4 of the way through Zelda. The music in the Desert Palace was fantastic. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2mXzBJONu8&list=SPz5gUls4mkX8Z_HPYY9xFHth0f-7qIrWn&index=69
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aazealh on November 27, 2013, 08:44:39 AM
I'm about 3/4 of the way through Zelda. The music in the Desert Palace was fantastic. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2mXzBJONu8&list=SPz5gUls4mkX8Z_HPYY9xFHth0f-7qIrWn&index=69

I think the game's music was one of its stronger parts. Great all-around, including some that were seldom heard since the original Zelda 3 (like the sanctuary music, which I always loved).
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on November 30, 2013, 12:41:22 AM
I split the topic so we're not competing with Final Fantasy VIII. (http://www.skullknight.net/images/gutsbarf.gif)


Anyway, I finished it a couple hours ago, so figured I'd get back in on the conversation.

Enjoying it, but it's not blowing my skirt up.

The closest it came to blowing my skirt up, other than just the pure pleasure of playing it, was that moment when you see classic Ganon (immediately dashed and never utilized, of course) and the ending, in which there was a slight breeze that may have blown some pixie dust in my eyes. More on that later.

There are a lot of small things that bug me about the design and presentation, along with many things that are pretty cute--the save game sound for example, always makes me smile. I also really love how snappy Link moves and attacks. It's the speed with I've always wanted in a game like this.

Agreed, only thing that really bugged me visually were the lame shadows, never worse than when Irene picks you up on her broom. Other things that bugged me were more story/tone choices that could have been better or at least more.

Maybe it'll keep to the Mario 3D Land difficulty curve, where the first half of the game is a breeze and the last half is designed for people who have actually played games before  :ganishka:

I think Mario 3D Land is a good comparison in that it seems to be trying to create a sort of pure gameplay experience (including, for the most part, the story, which doesn't add a lot, but also doesn't weigh things down). I didn't find the temples hard, and never got stuck in one, but they were all quite clever and fun, so I didn't mind. I'm certainly glad that they weren't a laborious grind as has become the case in some recent Zelda titles. Of course, if it wants full 3D Land credit then it needs to double in size at the end. =)

In a way, it seemed less complex than Zelda 3 to me, despite the new "painting" mechanic. In truth it's probably more that it didn't add enough new stuff for my taste...

I think Zelda 3 is definitely more complicated, for better and worse. I think there was a conscious effort to create the ultimate streamlined Zelda 3 experience or all ages (which makes sense as to why it's a quasi-remake/sequel). And yeah, the painting mechanic was never better than the first time you use it. It might has well have been the hookshot for all it's good for, ultimately (basically getting across a room/chasm).

That's the second to last boss I did. The first was the thief boss.

Same here actually (both dungeons). The thief hideout was quite an introduction to the Lorule dungeons. It certainly set a brisk tone that got me excited for the rest, and I wasn't disappointed.

Anyways, without fairies or potions I can see how you'd have more trouble, those allow for a good margin of error. I have more to say about the game, the renting system for items and such, but I guess I'll wait until everybody's finished it.

I liked it all I guess, I just really enjoyed the pure gameplay experience (again, like 3D Land). I suppose the renting kind of takes away from the exploration and treasure hunting (though there's still major items to be found), but I liked the freedom. In that sense it seemed like a Zelda game for veterans because it wasn't messing around having you gather all that shit again like it's the first time, "OMG YOU FOUND THE BOOMARANG!" (which I think is literally useless in the game =). Of course, this also meant that the enemies weren't going to get any harder as the game went on, and the game difficulty actually does seem to go in reverse get much easier as it progresses. At least early on I lost hearts and felt threatened/challenged, there were enemies that packed a punch and could have killed me, but by the middle I was just too powerful (this wasn't a problem in Zelda 3 =). I think I ended the game with the same potions and fairies I had at the midpoint.

As for the ending... it was a very cute and completed the circle very well, but it might have just felt that way relative to the rest as I wish they had tried a little harder with the story and dialogue throughout the game. Though, I chalk it up to a minimalist/pure gameplay approach ( the Triforce was actually used for something again though, and it was nice). I'm also glad Hilda was just using Link as I hoped from her interstitial dialogue, but was genuinely surprised when they revealed Ravio as the Lorule hero (I honestly didn't expect that much, even my guess about Hilda was framed as, "I wish they would do this instead of being so straight forward..." =). My only disappointment there was that YuGanan was the final boss instead of Ganon himself. I would have preferred that it was Ganon that emerged and defied Hilda once Link beats Yuga's first form (I mean, he is the demon king with the Triforce of Power and all, maybe HE should have been using Yuga instead, huh). Ultimately, it's a small distinction, I'll just have to settle for them being merged and imagining it's Ganon's power and influence that's really in control. Just like I'm imagining Link is the direct descendent of ALttP Link, if not his son. =)

Overall, I very much like it, and I'll enjoy gathering whatever is left (a couple hearts, and I never did upgrade my shield...) and playing Hero Mode. Like I said, it's like Zelda reduced to it's most basic gameplay essence, not as challenging as I might like, but definitely everything fun and engaging about it.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on November 30, 2013, 02:28:26 AM
I finished A Link  Between Worlds a few days ago, but forgot to write my impressions down. I'll try to be brief since we'll be talking about it at length on a future podcast.

I really enjoyed it. I don't think there's a better 3DS game available. That's not to say it's a perfect experience; far from it. But if you have any love for the Zelda franchise, go out and buy this game right now and enjoy the warm nostalgia bath.

First of all, the game is just fun. As I was finishing it, I told Aaz that I don't think the game could hold my interest enough for a second playthrough. Two days later, I'm eating these words, now nearly halfway through a second quest. Why? Because in spite of everything I'm going to pick on in this review, it's hard to put down.

One of the biggest things driving this is that the game controls fantastically well. Link moves quickly and can attack nearly at the pace of the player's input. This has an addictive quality complemented by all the things there are to collect and hunt down. Mowing through enemies in this manner makes you feel empowered from the very beginning. This results in a feeling of control that's better than any Zelda game in recent memory, and it's a shame that the level of control you're given is rarely put to the test.  You're too capable actually, given the range of challenges. The game is simply far too easy for anyone with experience in the series.

At first, I thought the item renting mechanic would be totally broken, but I ended up enjoying renting all the items up front. This bridges over the standard item tutorialization process that lovingly clogs much of the first few dungeons in recent Zelda games. But this clever idea truly only amounts to convenience, not cleverness. It doesn't throw you quite enough curveballs to live up to its potential. Don't hold your breath for a dungeon requiring all of the items in a clever fashion. Instead the designers opted to streamline them, picking one or two required items per dungeon instead of planning a dungeon around the notion that every player would rent all the items up front. That's really too bad, and a missed opportunity for a grand experience that rewards critical thinking instead of following obvious cues.

While I waxed and waned on the game's heavy reliance on nostalgia, I think in hindsight it's both a strength and weakness. The world greets you like an old friend, then predictably pulls back to reveal another, darker world. While this is well-trodden territory, I can't find the will to complain about this kind of mechanic, as it's among my favorite in video games. The world itself was always a joy to explore, even if I knew more or less what was around almost every corner. While there are problems with the game's reliance on its predecessor, the world design isn't it.

As great as this game is, it's not nearly as great as it should have been. Even when charged by the excellent soundtrack, no single moment in the game felt quite as epic as the highs in Zelda 3—among the best of which are obtaining the Master Sword and setting out on the Dark World quest. Both of those moments are in this game in their own fashion, but fall well short of their relatives. The game fundamentally lacks a grandness that was at the core of the Zelda 3 experience. These comparisons with one of the greatest games of all time would sound unfair in any other instance. But this is a special case. The game proudly plants its feet in the shadow of its predecessor, an unenviable position for any game. As a result, it is trapped within the boundaries it sets for itself, and even though it takes great strides, it's still just a revised trip down memory lane.

To touch on the story briefly, it's really just a turd with little thought invested into it, which is a shame. I genuinely wish one day Nintendo would wake up and grace a Zelda game with a story that can match its other grand qualities. I don't need a novel-length text. Just something that develops beyond the distinct boundaries of beginning, middle and end.

Here's hoping that while the developers made this game, they realized what made Zelda 3 a great game to begin with, and they take these lessons learned into their headspace for the next big Zelda game.

To reply to Griff now:

And yeah, the painting mechanic was never better than the first time you use it. It might has well have been the hookshot for all it's good for, ultimately (basically getting across a room/chasm).
I go back and forth on it. At first, I had to remind myself that I had the ability, and stupidly missed some obvious puzzle solutions while exploring. Once I got in the mindset of using it, I thought it was awesome. Then it becomes an old hat that's not developed beyond the first two or three times you use it. Too bad...

Quote
The thief hideout was quite an introduction to the Lorule dungeons. It certainly set a brisk tone that got me excited for the rest, and I wasn't disappointed.
I started out with the Dark Palace, thenThief's Hideout, and it was all downhill from there for me. Those were easily the best dungeons in the game, for my money. Loved every second of them.

Quote
"OMG YOU FOUND THE BOOMARANG!" (which I think is literally useless in the game =).
It's been super-useful in Hero Mode to stun enemies that could otherwise one-shot you. It's my weapon of choice right now.

Quote
but was genuinely surprised when they revealed Ravio as the Lorule hero
The bunny ears gave it away, for me ("Hey, that's what Dark World Link looked li- Ohhhhhh.")

Quote
I would have preferred that it was Ganon that emerged and defied Hilda once Link beats Yuga's first form (I mean, he is the demon king with the Triforce of Power and all, maybe HE should have been using Yuga instead, huh). Ultimately, it's a small distinction, I'll just have to settle for them being merged and imagining it's Ganon's power and influence that's really in control.
I'm pretty sure that's exactly what happens. But it's a fault of the game for that not being a more pivotal moment.

Quote
Just like I'm imagining Link is the direct descendent of ALttP Link, if not his son. =)
Yeah, but since Zelda is royalty, thinking about that too hard starts to get pretty gross...

Quote
it's like Zelda reduced to it's most basic gameplay essence, not as challenging as I might like, but definitely everything fun and engaging about it.
That's a good way of putting it. And Hero Mode is worth it so far, since it forces you to be more tactical with enemies. Still, a Master Quest rearrange would have been nice as well...
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on November 30, 2013, 04:28:57 AM
The game fundamentally lacks a grandness that was at the core of the Zelda 3 experience.

It's like they didn't even try to top Zelda 3, but modernize it's gameplay and world and basically reduce everything else to it's simplest form. It's like the modern free play version of Zelda 3, which is quite fun and addictive as it turns out. I also think part of the point was to make it accessible to anyone. Zelda 3 is quite a chore by today's standards.

To touch on the story briefly, it's really just a turd with little thought invested into it, which is a shame.

It only works as something you're not supposed to pay much attention to that only implies depth in the background (like a painting =). It's clearly supposed to be out of the way. The dialogue is so casual and the story so de-emphasized that I was sort of shocked when it suddenly had a real and relatively extended ending sequence. I figured Link would just pick up the Triforce and hold it over his head while Zelda and Hilda congratulated him. The End. The sad part is if THIS is what they think of Zelda 3's plot, or that this is better. I wouldn't be surprised.

Also, think the fact that there's two Triforces now will be incorporated into the future games? Will Ganon be trying to get both? =)

I genuinely wish one day Nintendo would wake up and grace a Zelda game with a story that can match its other grand qualities. I don't need a novel-length text. Just something that develops beyond the distinct boundaries of beginning, middle and end.

Well, OoT, Majora's Mask, and Wind Waker all have their strengths when it comes to storytelling (and actually make for a fantastic trilogy and the storytelling pinnacle of the series when thus considered). Ocarina of Time's fairy tale quality is actually pretty elegant and basically the quintessential Zelda legend on its own, without over-complicating everything (see Twilight Princess, which pretty much took it as far as it could go if Skyward Sword is any indication). I'm not sure what else they could do other than try to get it PERFECT (OoT more or less did that), or explore the nature and implications of the Zelda Legend more deeply and abstractly (which the Oot, MM, WW trilogy did, building on each other rather than just doing the whole random Legend with a gazillionth new Link like this one did even though it's supposedly following up Zelda 3). Otherwise you're stuck with a bunch of lighter offbeat material, which this game falls into, or the aforementioned overly grandiose pseudo-LOTR style of TP; which tried to encompass nearly everything in the series by itself, which I don't mind, it's still arguably the best Zelda game... on paper (I'm still in awe of its rectification of the Temple of Time/Lost Woods Master Sword resting place).

BTW, quick tangent: why didn't Nintendo remake that game, the most successful in the series besides OoT, in HD, which it would have benefited from the most, instead of the one with the timeless look that didn't need it and for which there was no demand...? Ugh. Moving on.

It's been super-useful in Hero Mode to stun enemies that could otherwise one-shot you. It's my weapon of choice right now.

Good to know it'll actually come in handy.

The bunny ears gave it away, for me ("Hey, that's what Dark World Link looked li- Ohhhhhh.")

And I'm so dumb I didn't get that until you just told me. Definitely improves that aspect of the game. =)

Yeah, but since Zelda is royalty, thinking about that too hard starts to get pretty gross...

Well, clearly it's Zelda 3 Link's bastard with one of the other sage descendent babes. It's hard to say which though because Link took them all as lovers, at once. See my Zelda 3 erotic fanfic page for more information (coming soon it's already here: Ravio/Hilda romance (http://25.media.tumblr.com/a882cd8fe93f90e2771a0f596de7a6ac/tumblr_mwy7gfVx7W1ssyyv4o1_500.png) and Link/Ravio yaoi).

That's a good way of putting it. And Hero Mode is worth it so far, since it forces you to be more tactical with enemies. Still, a Master Quest rearrange would have been nice as well...

You know what would have been so nice and doable that it's criminal they didn't include it? A hero/rearrange mode with the option of playing free camera/behind Link, modern Zelda style! I mean, half the excitement of the wall walking was seeing the world differently, and this would have been like a whole new game and arguably the ultimate Zelda. I also hate this idea because it's so good it makes me feel cheated and like the game less as is. =)
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on November 30, 2013, 05:23:22 AM
Well, OoT, Majora's Mask, and Wind Waker all have their strengths when it comes to storytelling ... I'm not sure what else they could do other than try to get it PERFECT (OoT more or less did that), or explore the nature and implications of the Zelda Legend more deeply and abstractly
There are so many things they could do with the story that have been off limits because they're stuck repeating the same storytelling formula. It could for example be a much more character-driven story. Imagine starting off the game by playing as Ganon, who's still a human, in the middle of a dungeon. This brief introductory sequence could flesh out his character motivations for wanting the Triforce of Power, why he's worthy of it, and humanize his side of the story instead of it being an ultimate evil kind of thing, even if it does end up that way by the end. Link's quest could indirectly lead to Ganon's corruption, hence their eternal rivalry. Etc. Etc.

Also, have Link talk.  :magni:

I'm sure this kind of story wouldn't be popular with everyone, but it's still something I'd like to see Nintendo explore.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on November 30, 2013, 07:54:02 AM
There are so many things they could do with the story that have been off limits because they're stuck repeating the same storytelling formula. It could for example be a much more character-driven story.

Sadly, I think they were trying to do that with Skyward Sword, which doesn't give me much faith in their ability to reinvent the series. As a matter of fact, that the latest game is literally Zelda 3 II doesn't bode very well at all in that regard.

Imagine starting off the game by playing as Ganon, who's still a human, in the middle of a dungeon. This brief introductory sequence could flesh out his character motivations for wanting the Triforce of Power, why he's worthy of it, and humanize his side of the story instead of it being an ultimate evil kind of thing, even if it does end up that way by the end. Link's quest could indirectly lead to Ganon's corruption, hence their eternal rivalry. Etc. Etc.

The closest they've come to that, quite specifically like that actually, is in Wind Waker when an older and more mature Ganon gets introspective in post-apocalyptic underwater Hyrule (see, they tried new things =):

Quote from: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4f1JamwuRM
My country lay within a vast desert. When the sun rose into the sky, a burning wind punished my lands, searing the world. And when the moon climbed into the dark of night, a frigid gale pierced our homes. No matter when it came the wind carried the same thing... Death. But the winds that blew across the green fields of Hyrule brought something other than suffering and ruin. I coveted that wind, I suppose.

It can only be called fate... That here, I would again gather the three with the crests... That I should lay my hand on that which grants the wishes of the beholder... That when power, wisdom, and courage come together, the gods would have no choice but to come down... The power of the gods... The Triforce! He who touches it will have whatever he desires granted! Already the crest of wisdom is mine... All that remains...

Do not fear. I will not kill you... I merely have need of the power that dwells within you. Now! Let us put an end to that which binds us together!

Gods! Hear that which I desire! Expose this land to the rays of the sun once more! Let them burn forth! Give Hyrule to ME!!!

Pretty eloquent and a revolution compared to his usual, "MUAHAHAHAHA!" They all had a lot more naturally developed personality in that game, even Link thanks to his more expressive face and human motivations.

Also, have Link talk.  :magni:

I'm conflicted on that, but why not? He already talks, we just don't get to know exactly what he's saying. At the very least give everyone else a voice in the future games. Console Zelda games, particularly something like Skyward Sword, shouldn't be text based in 2013.

I'm sure this kind of story wouldn't be popular with everyone, but it's still something I'd like to see Nintendo explore.

I feel like the series did some of the things you're asking for in it's heyday, though. Again, the material in OoT, MM, and WW for example was by no means the formula at the time. It seems that way in hindsight because it all rang true and Nintendo has been trying to recapture the magic since, but at the time those games were all quite original to the series. It's just that ever since then Nintendo hasn't been able to successfully create something original that still feels right or vice versa. It's either quite derivative and traditional (TP) or so irreverent it seemingly doesn't even take itself seriously (see the hand helds). Like with Wind Waker, if only they would use a healthy dose of irreverence to risk doing something truly original with the series.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: IncantatioN on December 14, 2013, 02:09:54 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgAEMZBRGI0
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Johnstantine on December 18, 2013, 03:27:33 PM
Hyrule Warriors (http://www.gengame.net/2013/12/hyrule-warriors-teaser-trailer/) was announced. Basically like Dynasty Warriors.

Excuse me while I finish cleaning up the jizz from the floor after having seen the trailer.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Slime_Beherit on December 18, 2013, 04:52:36 PM
I'm not a fan of the Dynasty Warrior's games, so I'm not really looking for it. I'll pass  :daiba:

Nintendo is really throwing around their IP's all over the place. It doesn't really bother me that mario stuff pops up in other games, but Zelda is more sacred. I feel this will cheapen the franchise, moreso than Skyward Sword that is...

The one thing I do like is the character model, looks pretty good. Sakurai should take note

(http://www.smashbros.com/images/character/link/screen-5.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/Flid8hI.jpg)
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aazealh on December 18, 2013, 04:56:07 PM
Hyrule Warriors (http://www.gengame.net/2013/12/hyrule-warriors-teaser-trailer/) was announced. Basically like Dynasty Warriors.

Excuse me while I finish cleaning up the jizz from the floor after having seen the trailer.

Uh... This isn't really what I want from the series. I guess they felt like they needed to put that Skyward Sword motion fighting to better use?
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Slime_Beherit on December 18, 2013, 05:07:54 PM
Uh... This isn't really what I want from the series. I guess they felt like they needed to put that Skyward Sword motion fighting to better use?

I dunno, with the amount of slashing that is needed in these games, I doubt they would go down the motion control road. Unless it's part of Nintendo's new WiiU marketing push. "Hyrule Histeria, game for Nintendo's Wii gamepad handheld, Linked with recent strings of arm injuries" ...at least you made the news Nintendo.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on December 18, 2013, 05:34:33 PM
Nintendo is really throwing around their IP's all over the place. It doesn't really bother me that mario stuff pops up in other games, but Zelda is more sacred. I feel this will cheapen the franchise, moreso than Skyward Sword that is...

For its shortcomings, it didn't exactly damage the franchise's reputation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Legend_of_Zelda:_Skyward_Sword#Reception

Objectively speaking, Skyward Sword is still an excellent and innovative game, and one of the five truly unique Zelda games in existence (LoZ, AoL, OoT, PH, SS). But, we hold new Zelda games to the standard of A Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time; the latter arguably the best game ever and the former arguably the best Zelda game ever (don't think too much about that =). It's not even enough that new one's reach the standard of or technically exceed those games, we want them to elevate the genre and medium to the same degree all over again, when that may not even be currently possible, or its a letdown. I'm admittedly as guilty of this as anybody. I don't just play the latest Zelda title for fun, I'm looking for the new BEST ZELDA/GAME EVER!

Unless it's part of Nintendo's new WiiU marketing push. "Hyrule Histeria, game for Nintendo's Wii gamepad handheld, Linked with recent strings of arm injuries" ...at least you made the news Nintendo.

In the same vein, their marketing push could be that they have the top selling home and handheld consoles on the market, and it's not even close.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Slime_Beherit on December 18, 2013, 05:51:41 PM
I guess I just wasn't enamored by the combat. There wasn't much variety to it, it slowed down the combat, it didn't always work, all in all it was just novel. The control scheme might have been innovative, but it wasn't executed as well as I would have hoped. With that aside, the rest of the game left much to be desired (i'm looking at you overworld, and theres not much to look at). It was one of the weakest zelda's for me, only contested by Spirit Tracks. Now that I think of it, if i had to replay one, i would rather play ST.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on December 18, 2013, 08:58:17 PM
I guess I just wasn't enamored by the combat. There wasn't much variety to it, it slowed down the combat, it didn't always work, all in all it was just novel. The control scheme might have been innovative, but it wasn't executed as well as I would have hoped.

That's undeniably the the make or break point of the game. If you liked the controls it's the most immersive and advanced controlling Zelda there is, if you don't... well, story and intangibles aren't going to make up for it or anything. I never really had a problem with the controls though, practically or ideologically, and it does make me not so humbly wonder how much the extra demand on the users' physical skills is a factor. Basically, like any coordinated physical activity, some people might just suck at it; thus, the strong disagreement over whether the controls are effective or not.

With that aside, the rest of the game left much to be desired (i'm looking at you overworld, and theres not much to look at).

Yeah, but we tend to focus on what's not there instead of appreciating what is and why they were perhaps emphasizing that instead. For example, the town and side characters and quests and were all more enjoyable to me than in recent Zeldas where they seemed perfunctory to annoying depending on their necessity (I also liked the more complex but streamlined system of item upgrading and one stop shopping). Perhaps they intentionally put a more singular focus on those elements and for me it paid off. Same with the combat, I felt like it was more involved, particularly compared to recent games where Link was just a pure killing machine that mowed everything down in one or two button taps (in this one you could at least get into what felt like a real fight). As a matter of fact, I just found the gameplay experience  to be more creative and fun overall, expectations of grandeur aside (it was only in hindsight I needed or wanted MORE in that department). After the ambition of Twilight Princess to seemingly incorporate and fuse everything in the Zelda mythos into one epic do-it-all Zelda, that aspect might have seemed lacking in this game, but it was sure a lot more fun and original to me while it lasted.

It was one of the weakest zelda's for me, only contested by Spirit Tracks. Now that I think of it, if i had to replay one, i would rather play ST.

I'm continuing my replay of Skyward Sword hero mode (in HD!) right now to see how it stacks up to my previous impressions (http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=1000.msg205057#msg205057). I'm feeling a lot more receptive to the world and story elements this time around because I'm unburdened by my expectations of the best Zelda ever (though they did nothing at the time to temper those). It's simple but at least it's something different and more primal and mythological. Plus, I love that they incorporated ancient futuristic tech and the overall weirdness of the world. As for Spirit Tracks, I still haven't given it a spin. Now I'm really curious though; can it be as bad as everyone says? =)
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on December 18, 2013, 09:21:43 PM
As for Spirit Tracks, I still haven't given it a spin. Now I'm really curious though; can it be as bad as everyone says? =)
SWEET JESUS YES. KILL ME.

:magni: CHOO CHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: jackson_hurley on December 18, 2013, 09:25:45 PM
SWEET JESUS YES. KILL ME.

:magni: CHOO CHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

yeah I get what you mean, I'm actually trying to finish it for the second time ( I just abandoned the first time).
It was way more fun to ride the boat in phantom hour glass than that stupid train that takes forever (yeah I know there's shortcuts but still is a pain)
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on December 18, 2013, 10:07:58 PM
Hyrule Warriors (http://www.gengame.net/2013/12/hyrule-warriors-teaser-trailer/) was announced. Basically like Dynasty Warriors.

Excuse me while I finish cleaning up the jizz from the floor after having seen the trailer.
Looks pretty cool to me! Not a fan of the Dynasty Warriors franchise, but then again I  haven't really played one of them in a decade...

What I see in the trailer looks fun--a good appetizer for the next big Zelda title.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Johnstantine on December 19, 2013, 01:17:55 AM
yeah I get what you mean, I'm actually trying to finish it for the second time ( I just abandoned the first time).
It was way more fun to ride the boat in phantom hour glass than that stupid train that takes forever (yeah I know there's shortcuts but still is a pain)

I tried to play those two, but they were awful.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on December 24, 2013, 07:39:10 AM
I tried to play those two, but they were awful.

I can't speak for Spirit Tracks but I enjoyed Phantom Hourglass until I had to go back to the sea god temple or whatever one too many times. It certainly wasn't "awful" by any objective measure. Zelda games are all pretty darn good well done if nothing else, but they seem to be received in only the most hyperbolic terms. Skyward Sword is either the best in the series or the most disappointing depending on who you ask. From my current replay I'm more inclined to agree with the former, I actually think everyone's complaints, mine included, were off base and missing the point, and I'm not just talking about the controls any more. The environments aren't so limited when you consider all there is to do in each, and it gives you a bit of Wind Waker and Ocarina style overworlds in a truly fantastical setting where everything is basically larger than life; this game is just fun if you allow yourself to get swept up in it (though I still haven't reached the tad tones portion yet =). Basically, if it weren't the latest home console Zelda it would be hailed as a charming Zelda killer.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aazealh on December 24, 2013, 11:35:52 AM
Skyward Sword is either the best in the series or the most disappointing depending on who you ask.

Eh, I think there's both good (motion controls, Zelda + side characters, some levels, "cool twist" with the villain) and bad (hand-holding, story was lacking in some regards, flying was lacking compared to sea travel in WW, lack of charm in some levels (and revisiting them often felt like filler), Fi not very charming to me compared to Midna) in it.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on December 24, 2013, 09:29:36 PM
Sorry for the big reply, I was just bursting to write a love note to this game and you took the bait. =)

Eh, I think there's both good (motion controls, Zelda + side characters, some levels, "cool twist" with the villain) and bad (hand-holding, story was lacking in some regards, flying was lacking compared to sea travel in WW, lack of charm in some levels (and revisiting them often felt like filler), Fi not very charming to me compared to Midna) in it.

It's certainly got its own flaws, but to my point a lot of the "bad" is in comparison to the best of previous games, which are some of the best games ever, so we're already splitting hairs, and just because an element isn't obviously better compared to a previous title doesn't mean it isn't good in its own right.

Air travel wasn't as expansive or meaningful as the sea travel in Wind Waker, but I don't think it's supposed to be a mechanic on the same level, which was basically the backbone of WW's unique world (and people complained it was too much anyway). Reverse the comparison and look at how much larger and superior the land exploration portions are in Skyward Sword while still having a touch of that whimsical travel (plus, fast travel was never more organic).

As for the land environments, people get hung up on there technically only being three, but that's not exactly fair because, speaking of expansive, they're more so than maybe any single environment in the previous games, with all sorts of variation within (you could think of it like three or four small overworld environments). Lanayru Desert especially comes to mind. It's not really just the desert area, it's its own little world. Each area practically doubles in size the second time you visit too, so it's not really just going back to the same three environments (as for the areas you do revisit or are reused, I didn't think it was necessarily any more filler than when you had to revisit areas in Zelda 3 or OoT). Compare that to the numerous but relatively empty one-and-done locales of Twilight Princess. I think it's a judgement call which style you prefer, and I certainly would like the best of all worlds (lots of huge, varied, deep environments), but my point is Skyward Sword isn't actually so lacking in that regard. Compared to previous titles, both in terms of overworld travel and on the ground exploring, it's actually not a bad trade off and adds a nice balance between the two (the ultimate would be a game with a full continent of Hyrule AND a Wind Waker style ocean =).

I also don't think it's exactly fair comparing the game's much maligned support character with one that was arguably the main character of a previous title (which I ultimately wasn't too happy about by the way; Midna is a disrespectful usurper =). I actually don't mind Fi too. I like that she is some weird spiritual android abstract in my sword. Actually, I like all the anachronistic elements in the game (ancient robots!). I also don't mind her gimmick itself (she's basically Bones), and I like that she has all sorts of practical functions and analysis to offer. Sure, I almost never use them, but it's cool that they're there if I want to see how I rate against certain enemies and as far as actual support goes, she's the truest of support characters.

As for the story elements, it's as good as any Zelda depending on your tastes, and arguably better. Zelda's character, role and relationship to Link being the most prominent example, but I also happen to like all the larger than life mythology. Zelda isn't just a "princess," she's the Goddess, Link is her chosen champion as far as both her roles are concerned, the master sword has a voice and is imbued with the power of the gods, the world is ancient, primitive and unexplored, and the villains are evil incarnate that Ganon will only later represent. So, I like all the the statues, temples, ruins, songs, flames, flying, and dragons, even if it's all kind of puerile (as mythology can be). I just find it quite charming, free spirited and enjoyable.

Anyway, those are a couple of examples where I think it's more our perception than reality holding certain elements back, or us holding ourselves back from embracing them. I had the exact same reactions initially because I'm always judging the latest Zelda on the scale of greatest Zelda, but again, we might not appreciate what we have because of that (I'm fine with having complaints or it just not being one's cup of tea, but it's ridiculous that anybody would think it's a below average game or something). My only caveat to this impassioned avocation is that I resumed play at the Lanayru Mining Facility and am now at the Sand Sea, basically the meat of the game (and minimal hand holding). We'll see if I feel differently by the time I reach the tad tones, but I just felt like it's worth thinking differently about the game and some of the elements some might see as lesser than previous incarnations.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Dar Klink on December 26, 2013, 10:50:07 AM
I got a 3DS for Christmas! A Zelda XL one, which comes with the game. Awesome as that is, the eShop has been down all day, so I haven't been able to download it yet. I haven't spoiled myself too much on it, so for better or worse I'm pretty excited to play it.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on April 14, 2014, 10:28:51 AM
Calling all Windwaker fans: http://www.tomopop.com/nendoroid-link-is-ready-for-a-pre-order-adventure-34149.phtml
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Dar Klink on April 14, 2014, 07:25:11 PM
Calling all Windwaker fans: http://www.tomopop.com/nendoroid-link-is-ready-for-a-pre-order-adventure-34149.phtml
AAAH I really wish I could get this. I usually don't like the nendoroid line of figures but it fits WW Link so perfectly.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on June 10, 2014, 05:12:30 PM
http://kotaku.com/the-new-zelda-is-open-world-looks-absolutely-incredibl-1588673841

http://kotaku.com/nintendo-that-amazing-zelda-footage-was-in-engine-1588740315

Quote
It looks like a cross between Wind Waker and Skyrim.

No doubt it's better than Zelda 3 and OoT put together.

Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aazealh on June 10, 2014, 05:28:24 PM
http://kotaku.com/the-new-zelda-is-open-world-looks-absolutely-incredibl-1588673841

http://kotaku.com/nintendo-that-amazing-zelda-footage-was-in-engine-1588740315

It seems they've got the right idea at least, though I'm not sure I like that robot-insect-tank enemy. Either way they're caught my interest.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Tama on June 10, 2014, 07:00:22 PM
Just watched the conference, I also love the big open world they plan on making, it looks beautiful. Link looks like a cross between Wind Waker and the Skyward Sword versions.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Delta Phi on June 10, 2014, 09:00:03 PM
I'm kind of excited about this new Zelda, though I don't have a Wii U. Not convinced that it's a console seller or anything. I might be able to swing something once the price drops some more.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on June 11, 2014, 05:35:28 AM
It seems they've got the right idea at least, though I'm not sure I like that robot-insect-tank enemy. Either way they're caught my interest.

The one that shoots frickin' "laser" beams out of its head? :carcus: I'm not a big fan of the whole thing, really. They're saying all the right things, but they always do. I'm waiting for all the caveats to this open world presentation that's already been done to death by others. Plus, the "incredible" cel-shaded style... we've been there and done that a few times already. It's just another rut the series is stuck in at this point. Anyway, all that skepticism doesn't mean it won't be good, A Link Between Worlds was pure fun, and it looks like the more free style of that game wasn't just an anomaly but truly a new mandate, so I'm looking forward to seeing what surprises they have in store.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on June 11, 2014, 12:55:02 PM
The initial impression I got from the demo they showed (which really was just Aonuma talking over a static camera shot before the trailer starts) was Skyrim. Aonuma even mentions that you can go to those mountains over there in the distance, which was one of Skyrim's big pitches back in 2011. But I truly wonder if the game will be that expansive. It'd be a huge departure for Nintendo, to paint a world in broad strokes like that. It's just not their style, and it'll be interesting to see if they can manage it without erecting arbitrary walls.

I don't really mind the "lasers" bit. Just a cool effect, particularly with the smoke trails erupting from where the shots landed. Nintendo is always good at small touches like that. What impressed me the most throughout the whole thing were the particle effects on the lasers, Link's bow, the flames, etc. I also didn't mind the return of the cel-shading effect, particularly since it just looks so damned good on the WiiU's better hardware.

Like Griff mentioned, its  no surprise to see some of the design elements of Link Between Worlds bleeding over into the next big Zelda title — namely the out-of-order dungeon notion. That game always felt like a testbed for new ideas, so that's cool with me.

One thing Aonuma mentioned in interviews at E3 was that, "No one explicitly said that that was Link." (link (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CC8QFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fventurebeat.com%2F2014%2F06%2F10%2Fzelda-creator-teases-that-we-didnt-see-link-in-wii-u-trailer%2F&ei=aV-YU5lF6aGwBJqygPgM&usg=AFQjCNGzfljscFePKbe6ztxPJ03zHJF4Og&sig2=qxH1FGJzMrgG3bNHSPMtpQ&bvm=bv.68693194,d.cWc)). So, maybe they're really going for it, story-wise this time? Link's son? Link being an established character of legend instead of just the generic hero of old? Either way, could be interesting.

So, with this, there are now what, 2 reasons to buy a WiiU?
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aazealh on June 11, 2014, 01:26:41 PM
So, with this, there are now what, 2 reasons to buy a WiiU?

I guess if one's optimistic and interested in various genres, the following exclusives could be worth it:

Already released

Super Mario 3D World
New Super Mario Bros. U
The Wonderful 101
Pikmin 3
Mario Kart 8

Yet to be released

New Zelda game
New Starfox game
New Super Smash Bros game
Bayonetta 2 (apparently comes bundled with Bayonetta 1)
Devil's Third (click for trailer) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yTldFe2m-A)
Xenoblade Chronicles X (click for trailer) (http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/vg7590/xenoblade-chronicles-x-e3-2014--nintendo-treehouse-deep-dive-part-1)
Splatoon (click for trailer) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8L54s2m1dPs)

Hyrule Warriors
Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker (click for trailer) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnLPJ4GibKY)
Kirby Rainbow Curse (click for trailer) (http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/pykypw/kirby--canvas-curse-e3-2014--first-look)
Mario Maker (click for trailer) (http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/dsj8wl/mario-maker-e3-2014--mario-maker-demo)
Yoshi's Wooly World (click for trailer) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vR8EHatIIE)

Still relatively light I guess (and I don't have a lot of confidence in the last 5 titles of that list). Maybe by 2015 the outlook will be a bit better.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on June 11, 2014, 03:17:57 PM
The initial impression I got from the demo they showed (which really was just Aonuma talking over a static camera shot before the trailer starts) was Skyrim. Aonuma even mentions that you can go to those mountains over there in the distance, which was one of Skyrim's big pitches back in 2011. But I truly wonder if the game will be that expansive. It'd be a huge departure for Nintendo, to paint a world in broad strokes like that. It's just not their style, and it'll be interesting to see if they can manage it without erecting arbitrary walls.

That's my biggest point of skepticism, are the overprotective parents at Nintendo really going to just drop you in the middle of an open world full of "dangerous" enemies? Do they even know how to do that? I mean, they held our hand and literally gave us a scanner when there was only one way to go anyway, how are they going to overcompensate if you actually can get lost (they might put Link on a leash connected to the helper character =)? Same for the enemies, though I don't see how they could get any easier from SS; you could literally back attack one in a row of three without the other two turning around. My overall fear is that they're going to do the bare minimum in the service of an "open" world, but it's going to be a mediocre compromise compared to what's already out there, and it'll come at the expense of any other progress like the lack of enemy A.I., lack of difficulty in general, or even relatively superficial shit like basic voiceover or, more importantly, a story written by a professional story writer (if you're going to tout your game looking like a beautiful animated feature, it might as well sound like one as well). We'll see.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: ryOtoha on June 14, 2014, 05:15:44 PM
An in-depth analysis (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADv9KmOcETY) of the trailer with some strange but interesting assumptions.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on September 26, 2014, 10:12:14 PM
Hyrule Warriors... has voice acting! Though, only partially, and nothing special. Still, the world didn't end, and it's nice to hear Zelda lore actually spoken with a little dignity rather than CD-i youtube poop. Too bad the whole game doesn't feature it (a perfect opportunity wasted of course), but maybe next time. Progress!

So far the game is fun but woefully repetitive, I'm hoping it's just because I don't really know how to play yet.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Johnstantine on September 27, 2014, 01:36:47 AM
So far the game is fun but woefully repetitive

That's Dynasty Warriors for you.

[quo
I'm hoping it's just because I don't really know how to play yet.

There's not much of a learning curve. Once you get into DW-based games, you realize it's just to fuck shit up on a massive scale. That's it.

Also, for the record, I had no idea that the game was released today.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Obscure on November 06, 2014, 07:11:44 AM
The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask 3D:

Announcement trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqp9fpMqhCo&list
Gameplay: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wskuFyYW4Ds&list
European special edition: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Urlpc8bvMEg&list

(http://i.imgur.com/1SlKZfd.jpg)
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Johnstantine on November 06, 2014, 10:38:41 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/7iB7IvT.jpg)
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on November 06, 2014, 11:01:22 AM
The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask 3D:

Announcement trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqp9fpMqhCo&list
Gameplay: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wskuFyYW4Ds&list
European special edition: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Urlpc8bvMEg&list

That's a great cover. Hope it's the one we get in America...

I've never completed Majora's Mask. Got through the second dungeon, I think? Seemed interesting, but quite a different experience from other Zeldas. The limited time thing and repetition of events always sort of annoyed me, but I know some people love that stuff.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Obscure on November 06, 2014, 11:38:34 AM
That's a great cover. Hope it's the one we get in America...

I've never completed Majora's Mask. Got through the second dungeon, I think? Seemed interesting, but quite a different experience from other Zeldas. The limited time thing and repetition of events always sort of annoyed me, but I know some people love that stuff.

I'm using the cover as my cellphone wallpaper, it's gorgeous. I hope they stick to the purple color palette, instead of going for the gold cover as usual.

Oh how I wish I was in your shoes man. Majora's Mask is one of my, if not my favourite game of all time. I'd love to be able to re-experience it all without a clue of what's going to happen next. Nintendo hasn't really been able to capture the darkness and atmosphere that Majora's Mask brought to the series (Twilight Princess tried too much).  I'm hoping they soon announce a release date for the ''New'' Nintendo 3DS, I've been meaning to buy a 3DS for a long time now, and it seems my reasons not to buy one have been eliminated.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aazealh on November 06, 2014, 12:53:59 PM
It's cool that they're re-releasing it, but I'm not sure I'll get it honestly. Majora's Mask was nice, but probably one of the least memorable episodes of the series for me.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Delta Phi on November 06, 2014, 03:38:23 PM
I've grown to appreciate Majora's Mask over the years, but I don't know if I can justify a 3DS purchase, though this certainly is another reason to buy one.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on November 06, 2014, 04:10:35 PM
http://i.imgur.com/7iB7IvT.jpg

 :ganishka:

I've only played Majora's Mask once, but I can see myself enjoying an updated go-round. It'll be interesting to see how the time dynamic translates to portable gaming.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aazealh on December 07, 2014, 12:54:38 PM
Heavily scripted dialogue between Miyamoto and Aonuma, but worth it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypR03D1nISA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypR03D1nISA)
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Sankari on December 07, 2014, 11:41:21 PM
From my recent experience playing Dragon Age inquisition and Skyrim, I highly doubt Nintendo can deliver interesting content for an open world map. From the preview, the world itself looked so empty, and the enemies completely harmless. Its Zelda, and they want to target young audiences, they're not making a complex RPG. I don't see the purpose of a huge map if theres no crafting, no hunting, no exploring left to do.
In Dragon Age Inquisition, theres a purpose for scouting, you get crafting materials for armor, weapons, potions, you get collectibles etc. The enemies are tough and require a strategy.
Its Zelda, it has a big franchise name, so it will sell . But I don't feel that interested in easy gameplay.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on December 08, 2014, 01:51:51 AM
I think that's selling Nintendo's proven ability to innovate a little short. I doubt they'd have picked an open-world framework if they didn't have something interesting to add. I certainly don't expect Skyrim + Link, but rather, something unique to the Zelda world.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Dar Klink on December 08, 2014, 02:32:17 AM
The Zelda series isn't exactly a stranger to explorable open worlds, it was one of the draws of the first game and Wind Waker had a huge map, although you had to sail around on it. I don't doubt Nintendo can do something interesting with a more open world, since they've already done it in the past. Skyward Sword had a lot of collectable items for crafting, which can easily be applied to this type of open world gameplay. It's not like Skyrim had any challenging enemies in it really, so I don't see the enemies not being a huge threat being a problem exactly. Hell, just spreading the usual heart pieces, rupee caches, collectables, and dungeons around a bigger map with many areas to explore Zelda-style already sounds appealing to me. More appealing than the Skyrim style randomly generated boring loot and badly level scaled enemies.

Also, I like how they're going with a Shadow of the Colossus style horse system now.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on December 08, 2014, 07:48:58 AM
I bet the original Legend of Zelda has a better, more challenging "open world" than Skyrim or Dragon Age: Inquisition, and whatever immersive advantages hey have over it are just ripped off OoT; unless you're talking about the texture quality of virtual tree bark nowadays (ooooh fuuuck, take all my money Bethesda and Bioware!). Harumph! :azan:

Unfortunately, it probably has a better open world than this game will too. :farnese:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aazealh on December 08, 2014, 02:06:41 PM
In Dragon Age Inquisition, theres a purpose for scouting, you get crafting materials for armor, weapons, potions, you get collectibles etc. The enemies are tough and require a strategy.

Honestly, I think comparing a Zelda game to a Bioware RPG is missing the point.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Sankari on December 08, 2014, 03:59:23 PM
Honestly, I think comparing a Zelda game to a Bioware RPG is missing the point.

I love Zelda, and Zelda has its own formula. I was just trying to point out that Nintendo is trying to market the new zelda to this particular niche, and I fail to see how it can accomplish that.
I was stoked by the Majora's mask remake. Zelda is one of the few things which I plan on getting a tattoo of.
Anyway, I wasn't trying to bash Zelda,I'm just a bit sceptical of the way Nintendo is trying to market it, or at least how most gaming websites have been trying to push the "open world" as a skyrim like feature.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on December 08, 2014, 04:36:47 PM
I love Zelda, and Zelda has its own formula. I was just trying to point out that Nintendo is trying to market the new zelda to this particular niche, and I fail to see how it can accomplish that.
I was stoked by the Majora's mask remake. Zelda is one of the few things which I plan on getting a tattoo of.
Anyway, I wasn't trying to bash Zelda,I'm just a bit sceptical of the way Nintendo is trying to market it, or at least how most gaming websites have been trying to push the "open world" as a skyrim like feature.

Well, Nintendo has traditionally been among the worst companies in marketing and handling their own properties (WiiU unveiling, anyone...?) So sure, it was cringe-inducing when Miyamoto said: 'See that mountain? You can ride there.' It's natural to draw parallels to Skyrim from that one line, since that was the same approach by Bethesda in marketing their game. But that doesn't mean the game is going to play like Skyrim. And as for most gaming websites... well, I don't think we really need to have a discussion about their authority.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on December 08, 2014, 05:25:49 PM
What I realistically expect is something akin to A Link Between Worlds done on a much larger scale. Really, they just need to ditch the whole opening up the world like zones that was necessary in the time of OoT but strange in TP and especially SS. They seemed to have naturally grown out of it in Wind Waker, though your main game progression was still almost totally linear (more than OoT), but for some reason they never figured it out in 3D when Link was on the ground. Best case scenario is LoZ 1987 style, "here's a sword, you figure out the rest" updated for 2015 and appropriately huge. I'm not getting my hopes up though, I don't think they'll ever be that hands off again.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on December 08, 2014, 05:36:54 PM
Best case scenario is LoZ 1987 style, "here's a sword, you figure out the rest" updated for 2015 and appropriately huge.

This is all I hope for...  :judo:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aazealh on December 08, 2014, 05:59:27 PM
I was just trying to point out that Nintendo is trying to market the new zelda to this particular niche, and I fail to see how it can accomplish that.

That's not the impression I got. They're making a big world, much bigger than previously, because they can. The Wii U has enough power for it. Are they merely trying to emulate Skyrim? I highly doubt that. Skyrim was a big commercial success, but I don't think people are oblivious of its flaws. At the same time, like others have said, the original Zelda pioneered the idea of an open world, and that's what this new game was first announced as going back to.

You speak of the series having a formula, but that idea has always been its greatest enemy in my opinion. To think that a Zelda game absolutely has to follow certain rules means funneling the series into a dead-end, which is pretty much what they've done to it. Breaking that mold means there's a chance of bringing back some freshness into it.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Johnstantine on June 14, 2016, 04:20:45 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rPxiXXxftE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rPxiXXxftE)

New trailer for Breath of the Wild.

I'm trying not to hype, but this definitely looks like they're going in the right direction
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on June 14, 2016, 04:22:41 PM
Yep, watching the live stream now. Looks damned good.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aazealh on June 14, 2016, 06:45:54 PM
Very promising. Might make me buy an NX, whatever that is.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Ari on July 06, 2016, 06:03:02 AM
I'll certainly have to go fifty/fifty with my brother on getting an NX, because the new Zelda looks great. I do wish gameplay was a little more...challenging looking. Enemies do damage now, which is too a good start, but combat looks...not very heavy? It looks simple.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Tabris on July 06, 2016, 07:09:05 PM
Haven't played a Zelda game since Ocarina of Time was brand new. Which definitely makes me a terrible human being and I will not hide that.

This new one is almost definitely going to be the next one. I do intend to play Twilight Princess in the near future too (a tad bit late sigh).
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Johnstantine on July 06, 2016, 08:40:31 PM
I do intend to play Twilight Princess in the near future too (a tad bit late sigh).

TP is amazing, but there's also Majora's Mask, Windwaker, and Link Between Worlds--all of which are fantastic. Skyward Sword was okay for the story, but becomes terribly boring with its gameplay.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Gamehowitzer on September 08, 2016, 09:13:18 AM
I have played all of the zelda games (excluding warriors, thats not zelda) And to be honest my favorite was majora's mask. i fell in love with it when i first played it. You could be a goron, a zora, or a deku scrub, and the many other masks you could utilize and upgrading your sword were what made it great. Not to mention all of the sidequests, characters, and each of the dungeons. One of my favorite things to try to do was to try to go through each dungeon without having to use the rewind song (you could use the reverse song of time to slow time). But the one thing, the one thing i ALWAYS wanted to try, do all of the sidequests in 3 days without resetting. and there was merit in going back and playing the sidequests for fun.
Anyways i'm going to get an NX for BOTW. It's decided. even though i still have exactly 6 months until its release, im still so excited.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Sareth on January 13, 2017, 04:54:06 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw47_q9wbBE

Hyyyyype. Reminds me of how excited 11 year old me was when Twilight Princess was announced. It's so bizarre that we're finally getting a Zelda game with voice acting, too.

Anyone else get a Studio Ghibli feeling? Something about the color palette, and it kinda seems like they took some inspiration from Castle in The Sky and Princess Mononoke.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aazealh on January 13, 2017, 12:07:22 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw47_q9wbBE

Hyyyyype. Reminds me of how excited 11 year old me was when Twilight Princess was announced. It's so bizarre that we're finally getting a Zelda game with voice acting, too.

Anyone else get a Studio Ghibli feeling? Something about the color palette, and it kinda seems like they took some inspiration from Castle in The Sky and Princess Mononoke.

Seems consistent with the usual Zelda vibe to me. Voice acting is neat. Don't have a lot of observations honestly. I've preordered the console and the limited edition of the game.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on January 13, 2017, 02:33:29 PM
I watched the live presentation last night. It was pretty effective how they hyped up this thing's release date. No Zelda until the veerrrry end of the show. The rumor had been for a while that the game has been delayed until summer, which wouldn't have been surprising given all the other late 2017 releases, but it's actually launching WITH the Switch, which is going to do gangbusters for Nintendo's launch, of course.

I really loved the trailer. It's the first thing Nintendo has shown about the game that really made me see why I should give a shit. The Deku Tree speaking to Link, talking about not remembering, makes me think that this is a follow-up to Ocarina of Time, starring the Hero of Time. I'm still slightly concerned about how Skyrim the game looks though. I'm worried they're trying on so many completely new elements that it won't feel like a Zelda game in the end. But I'll happily be proven wrong.

I'm probably going to get the Switch, which is saying something, since the last console I owned was a Wii. Before that, a Gamecube.



Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Johnstantine on January 13, 2017, 03:11:14 PM
Seems consistent with the usual Zelda vibe to me. Voice acting is neat. Don't have a lot of observations honestly. I've preordered the console and the limited edition of the game.

Agreed. I preordered the Switch as well, but the limited edition has not been put up for preorder in the states yet.

Very, very excited for this.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Sareth on January 19, 2017, 03:06:54 PM
Finally found a special edition to pre-order   :ubik:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on February 24, 2017, 09:21:18 PM
Early Breath of the Wild impressions, whether positive or skeptical, are indeed that it's much more open and will allow you to wander into trouble as not seen since the NES days. That's a good sign to me.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aazealh on February 25, 2017, 07:17:07 AM
will allow you to wander into trouble as not seen since the NES days. That's a good sign to me.

Indeed. Few people realize how well the first Zelda game was designed. To this day, popular "retro" games like Hyper Light Drifter do not even come close to it.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Salem on February 25, 2017, 12:05:32 PM
Indeed. Few people realize how well the first Zelda game was designed. To this day, popular "retro" games like Hyper Light Drifter do not even come close to it.

Just a few years ago I finished the original LoZ for the first time.   I've played many of them and never felt compelled to finish, but that game is the masterpiece of its time.  For me it's that game coming I'm sure will score well that I know I won't play. Not sure why I can't get into the series, but hopefully the switch gives a few more reasons to invest.  This is the first Zelda game to peak my interest.   
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Gamehowitzer on February 28, 2017, 01:40:39 AM
Here we are with less than a week until we can go and buy a nintendo switch. The anticipation is killing me.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on February 28, 2017, 05:11:11 AM
Buying the Switch might be the most exciting part of the experience! Sadly, I'll have to settle for playing the new Zelda for only $50 on the Wii U, and I won't be able to play it at the local park like a tablet propped up on a picnic table controlled via an Atari joystick. It just won't be the same. :judo:

Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: asic on February 28, 2017, 03:38:54 PM
475 dollars for a console and one game (so far). Not exactly making me sprint out and get one, while Breath of the Wild looks great I cannot justify that price. If the Switch game lineup is gonna be anything like the Wii U we are in for another first party dust collector which is only brought out when Nintendo actually makes a good game. At least it can be played on the Wii U but it looks "bad" and a lower framerate compared to the Switch.

Then after 80 hours of playing Zelda the console can go back to gathering dust for 6 months until Nintendo releases another first party game. I really hope this is not the case but unfortunately the way the game industry is right now it's too expensive to develop for Switch while also developing for PC, XB1 and PS4 at least for AAA studios. This has been the case almost since the Wii came out and it's continued that tradition over to Wii U. All I can hope for is that the Switch does really well so there is an incentive to actually develop games for it.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on February 28, 2017, 04:00:31 PM
475 dollars for a console and one game (so far).

What's your math on that?
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Gamehowitzer on February 28, 2017, 08:48:54 PM
Well he says 475, ill try to see what he was adding. 300+60 is console and game, wow the pro controller is 70$! Wth Nintendo. So 360+70 is 430.... i wonder where the remaining 45$ are.

Edit: Well i guess the 70$ for the pro controller is justified considering it has so many features and better battery than the ps4 controller. And its comes rechargeable, and USB-C is apparently way better for charging and data transfer than what most tech uses currently.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on February 28, 2017, 11:30:53 PM
Well, considering the taxes on that stuff it's actually pretty close if you're getting the pro controller and the basic system and game, but I assumed he was talking about some special editions or marked up aftermarket prices. Of course, Nintendo found a way to solve this financial crisis by leaking the game early on Wii U, so there's a cheaper alternative! Can I get my legally pre-purchased though discounted copy early? :judo:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Gamehowitzer on March 01, 2017, 09:18:39 AM
Well, considering the taxes on that stuff it's actually pretty close if you're getting the pro controller and the basic system and game, but I assumed he was talking about some special editions or marked up aftermarket prices. Of course, Nintendo found a way to solve this financial crisis by leaking the game early on Wii U, so there's a cheaper alternative! Can I get my legally pre-purchased though discounted copy early? :judo:
I had seen some weird bundles including several games or something for $500+. Which is just retarded.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: asic on March 01, 2017, 11:42:32 AM
What's your math on that?

I live in Scandinavia so the Switch here is 409 dollars, Zelda is 71 dollars. :sad: No additional accessories is included in that price. I do not know of any other company than Nintendo that can pull this stunt off and still be successful. Had they released a new Metroid or any Nintendo franchise other than Zelda I might be more on board. No sane person would pay 400+ dollars for a single game but that is what's happening with the Switch. Even the MarioKart on Switch is just MarioKart 8 with shinier pixels and a game mode added. Nobody knows when the new 3d Super Mario comes out so again we are in a Wii U situation. Oh right you can play Skyrim on it too, are you fucking kidding me?  :azan:

I bought a PS4 just for Bloodborne so I am not exactly following my own advice that well but at least the PS4 has a large library of games.

I love Nintendo gameplay but I also hate their console/game release approach.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on March 01, 2017, 03:39:17 PM
I live in Scandinavia so the Switch here is 409 dollars, Zelda is 71 dollars. :sad: No additional accessories is included in that price. I do not know of any other company than Nintendo that can pull this stunt off and still be successful. Had they released a new Metroid or any Nintendo franchise other than Zelda I might be more on board. No sane person would pay 400+ dollars for a single game but that is what's happening with the Switch. Even the MarioKart on Switch is just MarioKart 8 with shinier pixels and a game mode added. Nobody knows when the new 3d Super Mario comes out so again we are in a Wii U situation. Oh right you can play Skyrim on it too, are you fucking kidding me?  :azan:

I bought a PS4 just for Bloodborne so I am not exactly following my own advice that well but at least the PS4 has a large library of games.

I love Nintendo gameplay but I also hate their console/game release approach.

If the launch lineup is a problem, why not wait until after the library grows more to your liking? No one's insisting that you buy on launch day. I'm not even buying it at launch, and I think Zelda looks rad. I guess I'm confused what the source of all this frustration is. Because that $475 figure you floated would be a problem with other consoles too, if the regional pricing is to blame, so that's not really on Nintendo.

Personally, the notion of a new, ambitious Zelda game and a new 3D Mario game in the vein of Mario 64 -- all in first year of launch -- sounds pretty damned good to me. I don't think Nintendo's ever pulled a stunt like that off before. But I'm comfortable waiting until more rational minds have weighed in on the Switch over time  before I get too excited about investing in it, given the Wii U's track record.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on March 01, 2017, 07:00:16 PM
I love Nintendo gameplay but I also hate their console/game release approach.

I think that pretty well sums up the modern Nintendo home gaming experience in a nutshell. Great developers, kind of bad otherwise, right?

I guess I'm confused what the source of all this frustration is.

Your vote with your wallet says you do though, you're just more relaxed about it. You want to buy it and play it, but Nintendo's not making it worth your while and has a mixed record of success and support for these investments long term (even short term there was relatively little to play on the Wii U). It's natural for people be wary and frustrated by this. So yeah, if one doesn't like being jerked around, don't give Nintendo a ton of cash up front for one game and an IOU with Mario's picture on it. I'd rather it be they were really trying hard to earn our money instead of it being like us paying for the privilege of playing their games. It's up to them how they want to proceed though. I don't want them to half ass games either, but it's not like they've all been worth the wait anyway. There's a reason you and Aaz didn't get Wii Us, or there was a lack of reasons to get one.

But I'm comfortable waiting until more rational minds have weighed in on the Switch over time  before I get too excited about investing in it, given the Wii U's track record.

I'm lucky in that the only game I'm interested in for Switch, and which could possibly get me to buy it, is the one game that comes out for Wii U. I'm otherwise immune and able to just look at it with the extreme skepticism that it could be the anither Wii U, and/or Nintendo's Dreamcast, rather than another Wii.

I've said before it wouldn't be a bad thing to get Nintendo's software products on a system that also supports the field, the only caveat being their innovations often drive the rest of the market to evolve and I'm afraid if they just became a software company we'd lose that, but I guess we'll see if their hardware ingenuity is really serving their games well or not going forward.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on March 01, 2017, 08:02:04 PM
Your vote with your wallet says you do though, you're just more relaxed about it. You want to buy it and play it, but Nintendo's not making it worth your while and has a mixed record of success and support for these investments long term (even short term there was relatively little to play on the Wii U). It's natural for people be wary and frustrated by this.

I feel like I'm something of a special case though. I don't traditionally buy consoles, so I don't feel the inertial pull of a new console launch. A company really has to BLOW ME AWAY to get me to buy it and  hook it up to my goddamned TV and pull of away from my PC. If I was Joe Nintendo Fan, I'd probably already be in line  :carcus:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on March 01, 2017, 08:38:18 PM
I feel like I'm something of a special case though. I don't traditionally buy consoles, so I don't feel the inertial pull of a new console launch. A company really has to BLOW ME AWAY to get me to buy it and  hook it up to my goddamned TV and pull of away from my PC. If I was Joe Nintendo Fan, I'd probably already be in line  :carcus:

I'm the same way, the last time I purchased a home console was a Wii off eBay to play... Zelda: Sykward Sword! Before that I got a GameCube, plus games and accessories, off my friend for $20 back when Resident Evil 4 was still the latest one and picked up Twilight Princess. So, I paid more for those Zelda titles than the systems and games combined. I just don't see the value in the investment when I get 90% of the games I want to play on my old PC anyway, and usually much cheaper. Nintendo is the exception, but other than the Zeldas I could live without them too; Mario's Mario, Kart or otherwise, I lost interest in Smash Bros over a decade ago, and so I've already played largely equivalent iterations of all these games and don't need to pay a premium to continue. If I had my druthers I wouldn't even pick a Nintendo system anyway, but a PS3 or 4 for Demon's Souls and/or Bloodborne. Not a good sign when I even like Sony's derivative exclusives better! :ganishka:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aazealh on March 01, 2017, 09:14:41 PM
There's a reason you and Aaz didn't get Wii Us, or there was a lack of reasons to get one.

That's true... but my Switch is shipping tomorrow. :slan:

It IS a bet though, no denying it. But so is every console launch. The PS4 has emerged as a clear leader this generation because of all the exclusives (and the PSVR!), but that wasn't a foregone conclusion. The PS3 was more of a loser than anything last gen. Anyway, I've personally never cared much about how many games are available on a console. It's more a matter of how many games I'll actually buy and play. We all know that out of the usual 15 launch games on a console there's really just one or two that are decent, and then you've got to wait months for the ones that'll actually be good. Here I'm getting a seemingly great game, and there's a new Mario coming out before the end of the year. Then there's also new Splatoon, No More Heroes and Xenoblade titles coming, plus a bunch of cool indie games that are exclusive to the Switch. Speaking for myself, it's enough to justify the purchase.

P.S.

Famitsu 40/40
Giant Bomb 5/5
Gamespot 10/10
IGN 10/10
Edge 10/10
Polygon 10/10
Destructoid 10/10
Metro 10/10
The Guardian 5/5
Game Informer 10/10
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Sweet Prince on March 02, 2017, 09:45:50 AM
A new No More Heroes game, eh? Like Griffith, I was gonna settle for a Wii U version of BotW, but you might've just convinced me to buy a Switch, Aazealh.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on March 02, 2017, 02:10:56 PM
It's currently tied as the all-time, second-highest game reviewed on Metacritic. The first being Ocarina of Time.

http://www.metacritic.com/browse/games/score/metascore/all/all/filtered?sort=desc
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on March 02, 2017, 03:10:27 PM
The PS4 has emerged as a clear leader this generation because of all the exclusives (and the PSVR!), but that wasn't a foregone conclusion. The PS3 was more of a loser than anything last gen. Anyway, I've personally never cared much about how many games are available on a console. It's more a matter of how many games I'll actually buy and play.

Of course, it's ultimately how many good games or personal "must-plays" are on it, and that can be achieved through sheer volume (which is nice because there is subjectivity there) but also through carefully crafting a first party library.

Famitsu 40/40
Giant Bomb 5/5
Gamespot 10/10
IGN 10/10
Edge 10/10
Polygon 10/10
Destructoid 10/10
Metro 10/10
The Guardian 5/5
Game Informer 10/10

Yeah, I've been skimming reviews this morning (eyes half-covered to not be too spoiled =) and it's looking very promising! I still take the scores with a grain of salt though since even the "mediocre" flagship Zelda titles receive 9s and 10s as a matter of course.

Like Griffith, I was gonna settle for a Wii U version of BotW, but you might've just convinced me to buy a Switch, Aazealh.

So you can experience the $400 frame rates that still slow down? =) I don't even see it as settling unless the gameplay content is pared down somehow. I'm sure there's a demonstrable difference in graphics, I've seen the comparisons, but having seen them I'm also sure I wouldn't actually notice while playing the game unless the Wii U version is literally broken, and that would be a whole different story. I'm not going to prioritize an incremental graphical improvement when that is not Nintendo's priority anyway.

It's currently tied as the all-time, second-highest game reviewed on Metacritic. The first being Ocarina of Time.

http://www.metacritic.com/browse/games/score/metascore/all/all/filtered?sort=desc

Tied with Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2, GTA IV (twice) and SoulCalibur for Dreamcast, wow! :carcus:

For the record, since we've gotten into Zelda scoring, here are the scores for the last 6 flagship Zelda titles (aggregates at the top):

Skyward Sword
Metacritic   93/100
1UP.com   B+
Destructoid   9.5/10
Edge   10/10
EGM   8.5
Eurogamer   10/10
Famitsu   40/40
Game Informer   10/10
GameSpot   7.5/10
GamesRadar   4.5/5 stars
GameTrailers   9.1/10
IGN   10/10
Joystiq   4.5/5 stars
Nintendo Power   9.5/10
ONM   98%
VideoGamer.com   10/10

Twillight Princess
Metacritic   96/100
1UP.com   (Wii) A+
AllGame   (GCN) 4.5/5 stars
CVG   10/10
Edge   9/10
EGM   (Wii) 30/30
Famitsu   (Wii) 38/40
Game Informer   10/10
GamePro   5/5 stars
GameSpot   8.9/10
GameSpy   5/5 stars
GamesRadar   10/10
IGN   (Wii) 9.5/10
Nintendo Power   (Wii) 9.5/10
Nintendo World Report   10/10
X-Play   (Wii) 5/5 stars

The Wind Waker
Metacritic   96/100
AllGame   4.5/5 stars
Famitsu   40 of 40
Game Informer   10 of 10
GameSpot   9.3 of 10
IGN   9.6 of 10
Nintendo Power   5/5 stars

Majora's Mask
Metacritic   95/100
Edge   9 / 10
EGM   10 / 10
Famitsu   37 / 40
Game Informer   9.75 / 10
GamesMaster   96%
GameSpot   8.3 / 10
GameZone   9.9 / 10
IGN   9.9 / 10
N64 Magazine   96 / 100
Nintendo Power   9.4 / 10
GMR   10 / 10

Ocarina of Time
GameRankings   98%
Metacritic   99/100
AllGame   5/5 stars
Edge   10/10
EGM   10/10
Famitsu   40/40
GamePro   5/5 stars
Game Revolution   A
GameSpot   10/10
GameTrailers   N64: 10/10
IGN   10/10
Nintendo Power   9.5/10
RPGamer   5/5

A Link to the Past
GameRankings   92.87% (SNES)
AllGame   5/5 stars (SNES)
EGM   8.75/10 (SNES)
Famitsu   39/40 (SNES)
GamePro   5/5 (SNES)
Nintendo Power 4.675/5 (SNES)


Nintendo Power might be the only reason OoT doesn't have 100% perfect reviews. :ganishka:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Sweet Prince on March 02, 2017, 07:13:19 PM
I'd (begrudgingly) fork out for a Switch if that was the only way I was going to get a chance to play the next No More Heroes, BotW or no BotW. Zelda would be a bonus, though. All I know is: BotW for the Wii U runs at 720p as opposed to 900p on the Switch (a negligible difference, IMO) and the game's 'environmental sounds' are of an inferior quality on the Wii U (again, fairly negligible) but both versions retail at exactly the same price where I live. So I'm stuck between:

'Ponying up the dough for a Switch in preparation for a potential NMH sequel and buying BotW with it (which should help to ease the pain of spending nearly double what I earn in a week)'

and...

'Buying BotW for the Wii U, paying exactly the same price as I would if I was to buy it for the Switch, and waiting an unspecified amount of time for official confirmation of the next NMH before deciding to buy a Switch (but, in the process, missing the opportunity to play BotW on my lunch break at work)'

Decisions, decisions!  :???:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on March 02, 2017, 07:29:39 PM
Decisions, decisions!  :???:

If you already have a WiiU, just go ahead and buy that version now. Sell it later if you want.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on March 02, 2017, 07:36:13 PM
All I know is: BotW for the Wii U runs at 720p as opposed to 900p on the Switch (a negligible difference, IMO)

Right, even the Switch version isn't 1080p, let alone 4K or something dramatic that's going to alter the visual experience in some breathtaking way. Which is fine, like Wind Waker or Twilight Princess, rely on your the art directors to make that impact rather than the hardware.

and the game's 'environmental sounds' are of an inferior quality on the Wii U (again, fairly negligible) but both versions retail at exactly the same price where I live. So I'm stuck between:

'Ponying up the dough for a Switch in preparation for a potential NMH sequel and buying BotW with it (which should help to ease the pain of spending nearly double what I earn in a week)'

and...

'Buying BotW for the Wii U, paying exactly the same price as I would if I was to buy it for the Switch

If you already have a WiiU, just go ahead and buy that version now. Sell it later if you want.

Yeah, as you can tell from my rantings here I can be stingy as Hell, but even I'm not fretting over the price as it compares to inferior environmental sound quality (though I did wait to buy until I got $10 off, so... =). Plus, as has been pointed out, it's really not the same price of admission unless you get the Switch for free. It's actually a great deal! I'm sure Nintendo probably isn't thrilled to be virtually giving away (and literally for a while as it turns out :ganishka:) their killer, system-selling app on a dead system that already didn't sell because they kinda, sorta promised.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Hitoshura on March 03, 2017, 01:00:08 AM
I'm really liking this illustration that was featured in the latest Famitsu Weekly.

(http://i.imgur.com/OCXGUrq.jpg)


'Ponying up the dough for a Switch in preparation for a potential NMH sequel and buying BotW with it (which should help to ease the pain of spending nearly double what I earn in a week)'

and...

'Buying BotW for the Wii U, paying exactly the same price as I would if I was to buy it for the Switch, and waiting an unspecified amount of time for official confirmation of the next NMH before deciding to buy a Switch (but, in the process, missing the opportunity to play BotW on my lunch break at work)'

Decisions, decisions!  :???:
The new No More Heroes hadn't started development yet when it was announced at the Nintendo Switch presentation in January, so you'll be waiting a few years for it.

As for me, I don't own a Wii U and I'm not buying a Switch for one game, so I won't be able to play it for awhile.


Nintendo Power might be the only reason OoT doesn't have 100% perfect reviews. :ganishka:
:ganishka: Oh, wow. That something I hadn't noticed before. And their score for the game isn't counted on metacritic. :???:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Tama on March 03, 2017, 12:02:02 PM
I love that illustration Hitoshura, I wonder if they'll have that in one of the artbooks outside of Famitsu at some point.

I've always been a fan of Zelda, and while I haven't played every game in the series, some of my favorites are Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time. I own a Switch (went to pick it up last night at the mall) and I am about three hours into Breath of the Wild. When the Nintendo 64 game came out, it was amazing at the time because of the jump to 3D, and I am having similar feelings with this game. The amount of freedom in BotW is incredible, and more then any other open world game I've played currently. I love that it's not just a barren empty void either; there are many things to do, see and explore. So far I'm having a blast and for anyone who has doubts about it, my first impressions are that it is something to experience for sure.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Sareth on March 03, 2017, 01:15:12 PM
My pre-order from Toys-R-Us shipped this morning so I'll still have to wait a few days to play it. Oh well, I'm pretty busy right now so I think I can survive. Might go pick up a Switch this afternoon.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on March 03, 2017, 03:08:33 PM
I'm really liking this illustration that was featured in the latest Famitsu Weekly.

http://i.imgur.com/OCXGUrq.jpg
I love that illustration Hitoshura, I wonder if they'll have that in one of the artbooks outside of Famitsu at some point.
That is cool, but nothing will ever be cooler than the transition from kid Link, and really pre-OoT Link, to adult Link:

(http://image.blingee.com/images17/content/output/000/000/000/5f3/503601221_947952.gif)
An approximation of this image's impact on a kid, or puberty.

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/ea/77/3e/ea773ecc7aa116271a485b1e0e2135b1.jpg)
SUGOI!! :isidro:

I distinctly remember poring over all the pre-release character and enemy art for OoT on the Internet, with a shitty official NG4 watermark in the corner, because in the moment it felt like the coolest stuff I'd ever seen. =)

I've always been a fan of Zelda, and while I haven't played every game in the series, some of my favorites are Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time. I own a Switch (went to pick it up last night at the mall) and I am about three hours into Breath of the Wild. When the Nintendo 64 game came out, it was amazing at the time because of the jump to 3D, and I am having similar feelings with this game. The amount of freedom in BotW is incredible, and more then any other open world game I've played currently. I love that it's not just a barren empty void either; there are many things to do, see and explore. So far I'm having a blast and for anyone who has doubts about it, my first impressions are that it is something to experience for sure.

I'm really looking forward to see how Nintendo solves the current open world genre, because as you say, even when there's technically anything to do, that can easily feel like nothing. DON'T LET GO OF MY HAND COMPLETELY, NINTENDO!

I'm only half-joking too, I'm very curious to see how they make this world "real" and engaging but without telling you what to do.

My pre-order from Toys-R-Us shipped this morning so I'll still have to wait a few days to play it. Oh well, I'm pretty busy right now so I think I can survive. Might go pick up a Switch this afternoon.

I was a bit concerned about this myself, but Amazon assures me it will be at my house by 8pm tonight... and it better be, because I'm hoping for a late night. :guts:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Johnstantine on March 03, 2017, 04:17:07 PM
So I'm about 5 hours in to BotW and I already feel like this is out-OoT-ing OoT. The mechanics and story are just fantastic.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on March 03, 2017, 07:07:29 PM
My local Best Buy at around 11am today (1h after opening):

(http://www.skullknight.net/images/switch_launch.jpg)

The Switch after-market on Amazon starts at $475. After this and the NES Classic debacle (still almost impossible to find one in the wild, after-market price of $175 for a $60 item), I'm not quite sure Nintendo understands how to launch hardware.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Johnstantine on March 03, 2017, 09:03:50 PM
What time of day did you go? Most places had stock left over from midnight but then sold out this morning.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on March 03, 2017, 11:06:49 PM
What time of day did you go? Most places had stock left over from midnight but then sold out this morning.

My local Best Buy at around 11am today (1h after opening):

Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on March 03, 2017, 11:49:06 PM
475 dollars for a console and one game (so far).
The Switch after-market on Amazon starts at $475.

 :magni:

After this and the NES Classic debacle (still almost impossible to find one in the wild, after-market price of $175 for a $60 item), I'm not quite sure Nintendo understands how to launch hardware.

Nintendo Press Secretary:
(http://i2.cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/170121181022-sean-spicer-donald-trump-inauguration-crowd-bts-00002515-large-169.jpg)
"That's completely inaccurate! What you're seeing in those pictures is the result of the biggest sales numbers in video game history...!!"

Nintendo Minister of Information:
(http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com/images/07-minister.jpg)
"Excuse me, thank you Sean, but let the master take it from here. Yes, everything is going perfectly according to plan and I am happy to report that Sony called to surrender just now and we can definitively say we've won the console war. On that note, there is no reason for us to rush more units to market as it's largely a moot point and we don't need to sell any more at this time. Thank you."
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Tama on March 04, 2017, 02:16:31 AM
That is cool, but nothing will ever be cooler than the transition from kid Link, and really pre-OoT Link, to adult Link:

Yes! I also love that artwork, classic and one of my favorites.  :ubik:

That sucks Walter, it seems like they are sold out everywhere around this area too. I only got mine because I pre ordered a while ago. It's strange; you would think Nintendo, being in the business for over 30 years would know how much supply and demand they need, but who knows.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on March 04, 2017, 03:14:56 AM
So it gets worse: my guaranteed delivery date/time of 8pm tonight just got pushed to between now and the 7th. =)

Anyway, I'm calling to see if I can score a digital copy at the same price or cancelled no more Prime, though it's probably Nintendo's fault. Still, Amazon could have informed me any time BEFORE the promised delivery time so I'd have had options to replace it and not wasted my day as well.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on March 04, 2017, 04:07:03 AM

So it gets worse: my guaranteed delivery date/time of 8pm tonight just got pushed to between now and the 7th. =)

Anyway, I'm calling to see if I can score a digital copy at the same price or cancelled no more Prime, though it's probably Nintendo's fault. Still, Amazon could have informed me any time BEFORE the promised delivery time so I'd have had options to replace it and not wasted my day as well.

That's a bummer... You should just go digital, and cancel your physical order if you can. Amazon boned me over in a similar way, for a 3DS game I'd pre-ordered (Dragon Quest 8). The shipment wouldn't have even been ready until 2-3 weeks after launch. Fuck that. Canceled and bought locally.

So ... instead of Zelda, I spent the night playing fucking Berserk Musou, and god... It only gets worse, folks!
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on March 04, 2017, 05:16:34 AM
That's a bummer... You should just go digital, and cancel your physical order if you can.

That's what I ended up doing after threatening to cancel my order and Prime (we were anyway =) wouldn't get them to "switch", heh, me to a digital copy at the same price because they're technically different, they don't price match, blah blah blah, I knew it was a long shot and they're so big they might not even have a mechanism for such hand's on customer service. Anyway, I cancelled and ordered directly from the Nintendo eshop. The irony is this is likely at least related to Nintendo's supply side issues, but they get the business. Anyway, I'm still more pissed Amazon didn't give me a head's up when I actually could have done something about it instead of wasting my time and money (I won't get that discount/rebate back). Maybe then I would have just ordered the digital code from them or waited anyway.

Quote
Amazon boned me over in a similar way, for a 3DS game I'd pre-ordered (Dragon Quest 8). The shipment wouldn't have even been ready until 2-3 weeks after launch. Fuck that. Canceled and bought locally.

Jesus Christ, that's ridiculous! Yeah, I've had to make similar pivots and usually I'm more wary of these complications (I had a bad premonition all day), but I ordered it more on impulse due to the discount than my excitement for the game at the time. Otherwise, I would have made sure it'd be mine and ready to play when I got home.

Quote
So ... instead of Zelda, I spent the night playing fucking Berserk Musou, and god... It only gets worse, folks!

And I thought I had a disappointing night. There's always Mega Man 3. =)
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Sareth on March 04, 2017, 05:45:16 AM
I went over to the Wal-Mart I work for at around 1PM to get a Switch and, dang it, they were out :sad: But they had 2 Zelda Special Editions and I picked one up so I could use my employee discount. When the one I pre-ordered from Toys-R-Us gets here I'm going to resell it.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on March 04, 2017, 11:22:32 AM
That's what I ended up doing after threatening to cancel my order and Prime (we were anyway =) wouldn't get them to "switch", heh, me to a digital copy at the same price

No kidding, I think Amazon must have adopted different customer service guidelines recently. They used to be notorious pushovers for this sort of stuff, especially for errors that were documented to have been their fault. You could call or chat and complain about virtually any minor offense and get money back, a gift card, whatever. But based on my last two experiences, and yours, it seems they're tightening their belts on such issues, with a "get fucked" attitude.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Sareth on March 04, 2017, 03:55:50 PM
I think I'm going to pick up the Wii U version when I get off work because I don't want the game to get spoiled before I can play it and it'll probably take a while for more consoles to come in. I'll hold off on the Switch until Splatoon 2 comes out, make it a graduation present to myself.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aazealh on March 04, 2017, 06:03:42 PM
Smooth sailing here, been playing for a few hours and so far so good. Looks like it's really big.

One thing of note though: I was going to play it mobile at first, directly on the screen, but I felt like it didn't do the game justice. I wonder if some games will be more suited to it than others.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on March 05, 2017, 03:27:57 AM
Smooth sailing here, been playing for a few hours and so far so good. Looks like it's really big.

Yeah, I haven't quite seen what makes it so great beyond how much potential for interactivity and immersion the environment offers (plus it reminds me of a lot of great games beyond Zelda, and feels more modern and less Nintendo-y). I'm assuming from the reviews that they pay this off. I'm actually surprised how much guidance there's been so far, but the important thing is the gameplay in between. Conversation is straight to the point and then you're free to wander off mission because, "I'd rather check THAT out."

Speaking of how many great games it reminds me of...

So I'm about 5 hours in to BotW and I already feel like this is out-OoT-ing OoT. The mechanics and story are just fantastic.

Let me go back to this and say how about we hold our horses after 5 hours? =) I think to really have that kind of impact it needs to completely change the way you experience the game and even gaming in general (something like Zelda VR). So unless something dramatically changes (likely concerning the level of immersion), this ain't that; it reminds me of a lot of good games, so while it's certainly an evolution, that doesn't make it revolutionary like OoT. Actually, Skyward Sword was arguably more of an attempt with its 1:1 motion controls but it was still bogged down in other 3D Zelda tropes, which this one does a better job of sheddingn obviously. What's incredible is how much all these games are still like OoT two decades later. I mean, this is STILL basically OoT "mechanics" but bigger and more refined! Let's remember that was when Shigeru Miyamoto basically dropped the mic and hasn't had to pick it up since because his shit from 20 years ago is still state of the art.

Quote
One thing of note though: I was going to play it mobile at first, directly on the screen, but I felt like it didn't do the game justice. I wonder if some games will be more suited to it than others.

Yeah, I had the same feeling playing it on the Wii U gamepad; it's a bit of waste to shrink down a game where vastness, grandeur, and immersion are main features. Was there notable performance differences on the undocked Switch as well? I get a little framerate slowdown when there's too much on screen at once, and particularly in the area approaching the first fire from the starting temple but that's the only spot I've noticed it with any consistently.

Oh, and there is ZERO touchscreen support. Literally touching it will just switch between it and the TV creating the effect that trying to interact with the touchscreen will literally shut you down. Otherwise, decent port! =)
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Sareth on March 05, 2017, 08:03:56 AM
Well, WalMart didn't have any Wii U copies (boo, no discount) but the GameStop across the street did. Seems tougher than Zelda has been for years, I had a few close calls with the blue bokoblins. Ran around exploring the plateau for about 2 hours until I died trying to climb a cliff. I didn't die in Skyward Sword until the final boss fight.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on March 05, 2017, 08:25:58 AM
Seems tougher than Zelda has been for years, I had a few close calls with the blue bokoblins. Ran around exploring the plateau for about 2 hours until I died trying to climb a cliff. I didn't die in Skyward Sword until the final boss fight.

Oh, it's much more treacherous than any of the recent 3D games since probably MM, and I've already died several dozen times by now, if not more. But I have an excuse: with that newfound do-as-you-will freedom I ran straight for the end game, stealth raided the final areas for super weapons I could use to kill high end baddies, and just made it to the final fucking boss! :ganishka:

Spoiler free description, but I tagged it just for those (Aaz =) that don't even want to see this discussed in the vaguest terms: We'll see where I go from here, I just knocked it, what I'm assuming is only a first form, halfway down on my second try, but I can't get hit even once and I'm assuming there might be a few more rounds. Anyway, while this was something I wanted to try, succeeding really wasn't part of the plan. I don't want to spoil the whole game for myself and even just keeping these weapons for the rest of it could do it. Then again, if it's this easy anyway... :iva:

So, I'm probably going to take a couple more stabs at it until I deem it hopeless and then boogie with the goods. Of course, I've been intending to do that every step of the way.


Update with specifics:
So I beat the first form (turns at with 4 full hearts I can take 1 hit from them and live with a quarter heart left, heal, repeat), but yep, there's another form, and from the look of things at least 2 or 3 more. I guess I could keep this up until I master all their patterns, and what sucks is it only keeps so many saves backed up, so if I leave I can't come back without doing all this again.

Update 2:
Okay, got all the way to a fourth form. Now I'm enticed by the possibility of another save point before a final, final fight (also, I cant imagine this being hard with end game life, stamina and gear). An even more limiting factor than health is weapon durability. If I don't have enough to reach the end, it's pointless, but it honestly seems possible...

Update 3: Eh, trying to conserve resources sucks and gets me killed earlier/faster, I'm going to bed for now. This was fun but I can't decide if its ultimately a waste of play time if not the whole game for my purposes, but kudos to Nintendo for living up to their word.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Sareth on March 05, 2017, 10:46:56 AM
I am my own worst enemy in this game. I'm still getting used to the controls and I keep making dumb mistakes, like accidentally firing a bomb arrow at my feet >.>
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Tama on March 05, 2017, 07:23:39 PM
I am my own worst enemy in this game. I'm still getting used to the controls and I keep making dumb mistakes, like accidentally firing a bomb arrow at my feet >.>

Don't worry, I've done myself in many times already lol. You do get used to the controls eventually, they really utilized every button for something useful. My only small gripe with the game is actually the inventory, Once you start getting loads of items, I wish there was a slightly better system of scrolling or organizing faster.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on March 05, 2017, 07:49:47 PM
With a clearer head this morning I decided it wasn't worth the trouble to spoil the experience and vacated the final area. Maybe I'll try this again after going through the game at a more leisurely pace.

I am my own worst enemy in this game. I'm still getting used to the controls and I keep making dumb mistakes, like accidentally firing a bomb arrow at my feet >.>

Or even hitting an enemy with one... at point blank range. My first death was falling while trying to climb down the first tower, "Whoops." :ganishka:

Don't worry, I've done myself in many times already lol. You do get used to the controls eventually, they really utilized every button for something useful. My only small gripe with the game is actually the inventory, Once you start getting loads of items, I wish there was a slightly better system of scrolling or organizing faster.

What my little speed running attempt showed me is just how powerful, or capable, you are from the start because Link can basically maneuver around or over any obstacle. I thought I'd hit a wall long before getting near the end, and while everything can kill you easily enough, there's always a way around. But yeah, the clunky inventory limited item space holds things back and is frustrsting ("Your inventory is full"). I sure hope it will expand with new clothes and armor. I'm still in my starting tunic.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on March 07, 2017, 05:46:06 AM
Managed to get a Switch today and played Zelda for ~4h tonight. Love it. I couldn't put it down. Intended to go to sleep at midnight, and now it's close to 2am. I'd go into more detail bu- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on March 07, 2017, 03:30:09 PM
Managed to get a Switch today and played Zelda for ~4h tonight. Love it. I couldn't put it down. Intended to go to sleep at midnight, and now it's close to 2am. I'd go into more detail bu- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Stoked you got it, I honestly felt a little bad that you weren't able to play, "Man, I think Wally would love this... I bet he can't stand reading all about it and not being able to dive in!" Yep! :ganishka:

I also ritually play until I'm passing out asleep. I get mad how much time I waste in this game getting killed, I'm also always shocked when like one arrow does it, trying to do some stupidly specific little activity I stumble on in the environment, "Well, there goes an hour... oh yeah, save Hyrule."
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on March 07, 2017, 03:46:01 PM
A few scattered thoughts ~4 hours into Breath of the Wild. No story spoilers, but just to be safe...:

I feel like my dozens of hours in Farcry 2 prepared me for enjoying this game a little more than most. The fun in that game came from your ability to approach combat scenarios in a huge variety of ways. You can cook up a plan, execute on it, and when it inevitably fails, you improvise. That formula  never really gets old for me, so long as the actual combat has a heightening skill ceiling (and so far, it does).

Opening
The game does a good job of easing you in, but I was honestly getting a bit bored of the plateau shortly before they allow you to leave. Then of course the massive world opens up and BOOM, I was playing another 2 hours. I'd still be playing if I didn't have real life stuff to do.

Off the Plateau
I feel like everyone will have their own story to tell about their first moments off the Plateau. I recognized how special that moment was about a minute upon landing. The world is huge, surprisingly so, and immaculately designed with tons to see and explore. For me, I headed east in the direction of Kakariko, but diverged when I saw the massive bridge spanning (what I assume is) Lake Hylia. After making my way past the relatively tougher enemies and finding some fresh, more powerful weapons (soldier broadsword, I'll miss you...), I made it through an army to the tower just beyond the bridge using a variety of techniques involving stealth, headshots and running for my fucking life from a mob. That's all I had time for so far...

Weapon Degradation
I like it! It's jarring at first, and introduces an added element of panic when your weapon breaks mid-combat. But overall, I appreciate how the system forces you to learn to adapt to a variety of weapons, dissuading you from leaning on a comfortable crutch. It also has the added effect of making you CARE about the weapons you truly like, and hastening the cycle of getting excited about the next weapon around the corner you'll be getting (which heretofore in Zelda consisted of a single weapon -- though admittedly one of the most iconic video game weapons). This only felt like a problem on the Plateau, where the variety of weapons was pretty thin. Now that I'm in the wide world, I've gotten at least 12 different types or variations of weapons, so I'm pretty okay with the degradation, so long as it encourages you to approach combat slightly differently each time.

Story
Eh... I've admittedly seen only the top layer of it, but it's not really blowing my skirt up. I do appreciate the "doomed world" setup, but the explanation for how it arrived at this state felt poorly conceived. Still, I welcome surprises in this department. It seems to me the meat of this game will come in exploration, discovery and inventive combat -- and honestly, that's A-OK with me.

Controls
Is anyone else thrown by these, so far? Switching between weapons still doesn't feel natural, and neither does switching powers. I've never successfully done it on the first try mid-combat, when it counts. I've accidentally blown myself up with bombs after getting L+R's functions confused, and I'm sure it won't be the last time. I spent a good long time up on the Plateau just trying to familiarize myself with the controls, how to maneuver myself in combat, but I still haven't attained what I'd call a comfort level in combat yet. Every encounter feels slightly hectic, a little clumsy, and I'm hoping that's me still getting a hang of the buttons.

Switch Experience
My TV setup at home literally has no room for additional devices. We're full-up. So I was hoping I could play the Switch in portable mode 100% of the time, but as Aaz mentioned, it feels too small for Zelda. I jerry-rigged the Switch up to my TV by robbing my family's other entertainment devices of their HDMI and coveted power outlets, sitting on the floor, just to see how BotW compared on the  big screen -- and it was a HUGE experiential difference. Your mileage may vary, but for me, the portable mode just isn't conducive to the atmosphere of a massive, open-world game, where there's tons to see, and so many details to pour over in every little landscape. I felt like I was missing out on half the game with the small screen.

Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Johnstantine on March 07, 2017, 05:30:54 PM
Not trying to brag, but I think I had the best death in the game.

I was climbing a mountain and ran out of stamina, then a ram hit me from behind and I fell to the river below and drowned.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on March 07, 2017, 05:57:34 PM
Not trying to brag, but I think I had the best death in the game.

I was climbing a mountain and ran out of stamina, then a ram hit me from behind and I fell to the river below and drowned.

 :isidro: A death from land, sea, and air! That is unlikely to be topped.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on March 07, 2017, 06:15:21 PM
Weapon Degradation
I like it! It's jarring at first, and introduces an added element of panic when your weapon breaks mid-combat. But overall, I appreciate how the system forces you to learn to adapt to a variety of weapons, dissuading you from leaning on a comfortable crutch. It also has the added effect of making you CARE about the weapons you truly like

Yeah, from the start I was like, "Ummm, where's my sword? It's dangerous to go alone!" Then I got used to improvising so when I snagged a traveler's sword off a Bobokin I felt like maybe they gave me "the starting sword" too soon... then it broke during the next battle and I realized we were on to something here. =)

Story
Eh... I've admittedly seen only the top layer of it, but it's not really blowing my skirt up. I do appreciate the "doomed world" setup, but the explanation for how it arrived at this state felt poorly conceived. Still, I welcome surprises in this department. It seems to me the meat of this game will come in exploration, discovery and inventive combat -- and honestly, that's A-OK with me.

The story so far is very generic and a bit weird in the overall scheme of Zelda (all the talk of 100 years ago, 10,000 years ago, etc), but as an excuse for a post-apocalyptic techno Hyrule it's fine (there's some awesome payoffs on this theme in certain areas). Overall, I think the story will be what you make it out in the field. Speaking of story elements, I was annoyed on principle they once again decided not to go full voice, especially given the sparse population... until I heard some of the voice acting; that made me prefer the text elements. =)

Controls
Is anyone else thrown by these, so far? Switching between weapons still doesn't feel natural, and neither does switching powers. I've never successfully done it on the first try mid-combat, when it counts. I've accidentally blown myself up with bombs after getting L+R's functions confused, and I'm sure it won't be the last time. I spent a good long time up on the Plateau just trying to familiarize myself with the controls, how to maneuver myself in combat, but I still haven't attained what I'd call a comfort level in combat yet. Every encounter feels slightly hectic, a little clumsy, and I'm hoping that's me still getting a hang of the buttons.

Yeah, there's a lot of complexity they tried to streamline in there, with varying success. I got pretty adept out of necessity during my castle run but I still find myself tripping over the controls every once in a while (I didn't even learn how to crouch until after that, and parrying was like yesterday!). I've tried switching the jump button to the more natural bottom position, but the problem is I'm used to it in that spot for every other function it does so I just stuck with it. It seems they made your sprints have a bit of delay after release so the jump button being above isn't a hindrance (clever, but again, not usual).

Your mileage may vary, but for me, the portable mode just isn't conducive to the atmosphere of a massive, open-world game, where there's tons to see, and so many details to pore over in every little landscape. I felt like I was missing out on half the game with the small screen.

I've actually played about 50/50 on my TV and the Wii U GamePad (in bed or when the wife is watching TV, which I fully support for expanded game time =), and I think it's still pretty immersive. I'll sort of focus in on the details so it doesn't bother me I'm not getting the full impact of the big picture experience. Still, whenever I can I try to play on the TV, and might even reserve what I think are important parts strictly for that, but when I'm fucking around in familiar minutia it's just nice to have the extra playing option.

Not trying to brag, but I think I had the best death in the game.

I was climbing a mountain and ran out of stamina, then a ram hit me from behind and I fell to the river below and drowned.
:isidro: A death from land, sea, and air! That is unlikely to be topped.

It's pretty stiff competition [general environmental spoilers within]:

http://kotaku.com/legend-of-zelda-breath-of-the-wild-players-share-their-1793006745
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Arc on March 07, 2017, 08:24:41 PM

Opening
The game does a good job of easing you in, but I was honestly getting a bit bored of the plateau shortly before they allow you to leave. Then of course the massive world opens up and BOOM, I was playing another 2 hours. I'd still be playing if I didn't have real life stuff to do.


I agree that the plateau "tutorial" was kind of boring by the end but i think it's a better experience than constant frozen screens telling you how to play the game. 5 mins off the plateau and I already forgot that I was ever bored.

Story
Eh... I've admittedly seen only the top layer of it, but it's not really blowing my skirt up. I do appreciate the "doomed world" setup, but the explanation for how it arrived at this state felt poorly conceived. Still, I welcome surprises in this department. It seems to me the meat of this game will come in exploration, discovery and inventive combat -- and honestly, that's A-OK with me.


Zelda has never had the deepest storyline with plot twists and so forth but honestly I've been impressed at their ability to re-imagine the "zelda" story with subtle differences similar to skyward sword. But, to be honest I don't keep coming back to zelda games for the story. Another thing i noticed about BotW is pretty much everyone you can talk to has something useful to say- i suggest talking to everyone you meet in a new area as they might put you on the track to some neat things.

After playing like ~20 hrs or so I can say that I do like how the story starts off feeling totally hollow (seems to fit with Link's amnesia) and you learn more as you find the other races and track down the locations of Zelda's 12 mysterious pictures and start to fill the voids in what happened.

My best death so far is after i upgraded the bombs (they get a bigger blast radius) I was trying to blow up a tree to get all the apples out (yes im too lazy to climb up) I blasted myself off of a ~200ft cliff and died as i bounced down the bluffs.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Sareth on March 08, 2017, 02:16:41 AM
I think this is my new favorite Zelda, I'm really enjoying it.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Gamehowitzer on March 08, 2017, 03:37:32 AM
Looks like everyone has been playing the hell out of zelda lol. My switch came in early on monday and i was giddy like a little kid on christmas. Damn this game is fun. Every-time i see one of those curious spots.... Everything else goes out the window.
I also just killed 3 gaurdians in a row. So that was fun.
Also how do i do those spoiler things?
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Arc on March 08, 2017, 03:53:22 PM
Looks like everyone has been playing the hell out of zelda lol. My switch came in early on monday and i was giddy like a little kid on christmas. Damn this game is fun. Every-time i see one of those curious spots.... Everything else goes out the window.
I also just killed 3 gaurdians in a row. So that was fun.
Also how do i do those spoiler things?

Use the spoiler tag: wrap the text you wanna black out with a [/spoiler] at the end and one without the slash at the beginning.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on March 08, 2017, 04:25:04 PM
Looks like everyone has been playing the hell out of zelda lol. My switch came in early on monday and i was giddy like a little kid on christmas. Damn this game is fun. Every-time i see one of those curious spots.... Everything else goes out the window.

I couldn't play last night due to a power outage! :puck:

I was able to recover Link's first memory before that though, which I loved and which seriously raised the plot potential of the game. I can now imagine it being among the best in that regard.

Speaking of which, this game's growing reputation naturally has me thinking of the greater Zelda pantheon and where it fits in. For sure it's the signature title of the Fujibayashi era, and though this is only his second effort as captain of the Zelda flagship, he made his bones long ago on handhelds with Oracle of Ages/Seasons and The Minnish Cap.

It also has me considering Aonuma's legacy following Miyamoto/Tezuka (who are largely responsible for the first five Zelda games, so untoppable), starting out as an assistant director on OoT and ultimately being director of Majora's Mask (with Koizumi), Wind Waker, and Twilight Princess. It's hard to pick one among those three, but I guess I'd say Wind Waker is his "signature" contribution since it's so unique and MM and TP are still so OoT-centric in their own ways; one a direct sequel in the same engine, the other a virtual remake/greatest hits compilation, whereas WW is where he really gets away from it and makes the series his own (it's also hard not to think of him and Toon Link joined at the hip). BotW owes a lot to that game too; it's like Wind Waker on land in more ways than one.

Also how do i do those spoiler things?
Use the spoiler tag: wrap the text you wanna black out with a [/spoiler] at the end and one without the slash at the beginning.

Or highlight the text you want blacked out and click this (http://www.skullknight.net/forum/Themes/Recall_20/images/bbc/spoiler.gif) button. It's located roughly above the Azan and Puck emojis. =)
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Gamehowitzer on March 11, 2017, 08:18:23 AM
Ok well i'm searching for the 3rd fairy fountain. I have the 1st and the one by Tabantha tower just below piper ridge but i just dont know where to search for the 3rd. I just have death mountain left to take care of and finishing shrines. I have the Master sword and i need to learn more about the Dragons. Farosh and dinraal. i havent seen the blue one yet but im keeping my eyes peeled. my only problem im running into now is that i need to focus on gathering materials more. Also if anyone knows about the Mirro shaz shrine, in the back i just can't get the ball to go in no matter what. Its the optional chest in the back thats harder and further than the one before it.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Sareth on March 12, 2017, 01:07:58 AM
This has to be my favorite iteration of Link and Zelda. They are the absolute cutest ♥‿♥
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Gamehowitzer on March 12, 2017, 01:22:24 AM
Ok well i'm searching for the 3rd fairy fountain. I have the 1st and the one by Tabantha tower just below piper ridge but i just dont know where to search for the 3rd. I just have death mountain left to take care of and finishing shrines. I have the Master sword and i need to learn more about the Dragons. Farosh and dinraal. i havent seen the blue one yet but im keeping my eyes peeled. my only problem im running into now is that i need to focus on gathering materials more. Also if anyone knows about the Mirro shaz shrine, in the back i just can't get the ball to go in no matter what. Its the optional chest in the back thats harder and further than the one before it.

Did this post as all spoilered or was it too descriptive and one of you guys decided it should be blacked? I thought i covered the parts that were kinda spoilery or descriptive but i'd like to know for future reference. I didn't think i posted it like that but mistakes have been made before.

This has to be my favorite iteration of Link and Zelda. They are the absolute cutest ♥‿♥
I totally agree with you that they look the best, however for some reason Zelda's voice actor just kind of bothers me. I feel like the voice just doesn't fit. I mean i get that they're trying to make her sound refined and regal (maybe not idk) but the way some of the lines are coupled with the accent just bothers me a little bit.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on March 12, 2017, 02:12:42 AM
Did this post as all spoilered or was it too descriptive and one of you guys decided it should be blacked? I thought i covered the parts that were kinda spoilery or descriptive but i'd like to know for future reference. I didn't think i posted it like that but mistakes have been made before.

I thought the whole thing was pretty spoilery, so I spoiled it. Speaking of which, please don't double-post. If you have something else to add, you can edit your existing post.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Gamehowitzer on March 12, 2017, 05:09:43 AM
I thought the whole thing was pretty spoilery, so I spoiled it. Speaking of which, please don't double-post. If you have something else to add, you can edit your existing post.

My bad. I haven't really been part of internet forums so these things kind of just slip my mind.
If you want to own a house start by looking in Hateno village. Its pretty expensive though so make sure you can shell out some money.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: MrFlibble on March 12, 2017, 02:57:18 PM
I was apprehensive when they stated it was going to be open world, since MGS5 botched the concept completely, but it really works with Zelda, I’ve always wanted a Hyrule that felt as vast as I imagined it to be when I was younger. I was hoping for a more interesting story, given the post apocalyptic mystery box template they were teasing, unfortunately the story plays out exactly how you’d expect it to, Ganon wins, Link gets wounded and goes into hibernation, Zelda entraps Ganon, I was hoping for more twists, something shocking.

 The only interesting revelation was that the story takes place in the far future of the LOZ timeline and that Ganon has been driven insane by the perpetual reincarnation cycle and has reverted to a primal form.
As great as the games selection of overworld mini bosses and enemies are, I’m disappointed they didn’t include Poes, Darknuts, or my personal favourite ;  Re deads. However the way they have fleshed out these enemies is amazing, the Lizalfos camouflage themselves while they’re dormant, the stalfos will reform themselves even if their original head has been destroyed, Guardians will attempt to maintain an ideal distance from you, so they’re outside of your range but close enough to shoot you accurately.

The dungeon bosses are decent, but I wish they more more distinct, I would have preferred the bosses be designed like various fantasy monsters like they’ve always done, however if they has to stick to the cyborg phantom Ganon motif, they could have given the forms more unique designs, however they’re all humanoid in shape, my favourite is the Thunderblight, for the bizzare way it moves, it was the only challenging boss of the Ganon blights.

The combat is a little jarring, but what really makes it frustrating is that the control layout is different from ususal 3d Zelda games, and they don’t give you the option of changing the controls, so my muscle memory is at constant war with the part of my brain trying to figure out these new controls.


I’m really surprised by how difficult this game is, it’s almost as hard as Majoras Mask, they went from the overbearing coddling of Skyward Sword to “Here is a club that will break in 3 hits, go anywhere you want, have fun getting your ass kicked by bog standard nuisance enemies, and if you so much as think of rushing straight to the final stage prepare to get vaporised by a bivouac of steampunk tank robots.”.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on March 13, 2017, 04:51:09 PM
I totally agree with you that they look the best, however for some reason Zelda's voice actor just kind of bothers me. I feel like the voice just doesn't fit. I mean i get that they're trying to make her sound refined and regal (maybe not idk) but the way some of the lines are coupled with the accent just bothers me a little bit.

For the record, I think Skyward Zelda is way cuter, and Godlier to boot. :carcus: As for her voice here, it's not just the accent or your ear, there's some suspect VA work in this game, Zelda chief among them, and Mipha too (maybe the same actress). Sometimes they're alright, but they just sound so thin and unsure otherwise it seems more like it's the voice actor rather than an intentional part of the performance (but sometimes that "amateur quality" does work in favor of the "realness" of scenes because it's not like it's Shakespeare anyway =). I think Nintendo is still figuring this out beyond grunts, gibberish, and "It's a me, Mario!"

I was apprehensive when they stated it was going to be open world, since MGS5 botched the concept completely, but it really works with Zelda, I’ve always wanted a Hyrule that felt as vast as I imagined it to be when I was younger.

I'm gonna have to sorta disagree with you there; it was unornadox for sure, but were you not entertained? I don't think the consensus was the game was botched either... well, at least not the core gameplay! =)

I was hoping for a more interesting story, given the post apocalyptic mystery box template they were teasing, unfortunately the story plays out exactly how you’d expect it to

God damn it, I forgot when I quote spoilered posts I can SEE the text, I don't think I saw anything I didn't know already though. :ganishka: Anyway, yeah, there was a time there in the middle when it seemed it could be a bit more novel, but it's ultimately nothing special, a little remix of the main "Legend" tropes and ideas from previous games. I do think it has a decent balance of classic Zelda medieval fantasy, more SS-style mythology, the WW post-apocalyptic self-awareness, and just plain weirdness; we're going to fight Ganon with giant mechs this time, and it's apparently a 10,000 year old tradition. One thing that is great about the story is how it actually serves the open game design very organically and coherently, which can be an underrated part of gaming story-crafting. Too often I think we look at them as separate but tacked together elements, "are there great cut scenes between the game parts!?" and never the twain shall meet.

As great as the games selection of overworld mini bosses and enemies are, I’m disappointed they didn’t include Poes, Darknuts, or my personal favourite ;  Re deads.


I agree in principle, I always want more, not less, but to be honest I didn't even notice their absence until you pointed it out.

The dungeon bosses are decent, but I wish they more more distinct, I would have preferred the bosses be designed like various fantasy monsters like they’ve always done

Again I tend to agree, but as you say that's what they've always done, and this being a bit different and serving the game better overall, if you tried rushing the boss you'll know what I mean, works for this (a little bit of cleverness covers a lot of sins with me). It's like the idea of "don't give the audience what they want, but what you think they need" (or don't know that they want, but YMMV here). Actually, the style isn't unprecedented either as it kind of reminds me of at least one previous Zelda game, Majora's Mask.

The combat is a little jarring, but what really makes it frustrating is that the control layout is different from ususal 3d Zelda games, and they don’t give you the option of changing the controls, so my muscle memory is at constant war with the part of my brain trying to figure out these new controls.

Yeah, there's a few hour learning curve, at least, though I found switching the jump button does put things in more proper order, especially for combat and particularly running quick strikes.

I’m really surprised by how difficult this game is, it’s almost as hard as Majoras Mask, they went from the overbearing coddling of Skyward Sword to “Here is a club that will break in 3 hits, go anywhere you want, have fun getting your ass kicked by bog standard nuisance enemies, and if you so much as think of rushing straight to the final stage prepare to get vaporised by a bivouac of steampunk tank robots.”.

Well, you kind of have to do that if one's able to rush the boss in the first place, and even still there's people beating it in under an hour now! Even I got through 3.5 bosses in my little run (and, a little sadly, I'm at the point now where I'm taking Guardians' lunch money whenever I see them and they should run from me =). On the whole I think the difficulty is nicely balanced so you'll die a lot, but it's not too penalizing and you can simply learn from your mistakes and try, try again. It's never particularly daunting like Dark Souls or something. Actually it reminds me a bit of ALttP, that game wasn't a cakewalk, you could die easily enough if you're not paying attention, but it wasn't super difficult either. You just needed to be focused and engaged, which is the point and a fun and fair balance as opposed to it being ridiculously hard like LoZ/AoL or ridiculously easy like the latter 3D entries.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on March 13, 2017, 05:03:23 PM
Just a brief check-in: I've had to restrain myself from playing the game, because I've been clocking in about 5h each night since I got it, and as a dad, I only really have about 2h of "free time." Meaning, I was staying up until 2-3am, then waking up with my kid at 7am, for a good 4 days straight. 

Sleep deprivation aside, I regret nothing. Having an absolute blast. The game is a huge accomplishment. Exploring it feels like the world I had in my head when playing through the first two Zeldas. That sense of discovery around every corner, and how the different systems interact with each other (in Zelda 1, it was the ability to blow holes in walls, in BotW, it's like... fucking everything), leads to some new experience, or at least a variation on that experience, every few moments.

My only criticism so far is reserved for a certain forested portion of the game — the goddamned Korok Trials. I feel like the designers operated from a completely different philosophy here. The rest of the game feels wide open, with endless possibilities on your approach, but that portion forces you down a very narrow, boring pathway, with multiple possible points of failure. In the end, for 2/3 of them I still ended up succeeding by subverting the rules, but that came mostly out of frustration at failing instead of playful experimentation. Which is really too bad, because I was very much looking forward to that area, and it turned out to be a big bummer for me.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on March 13, 2017, 05:53:52 PM
Just a brief check-in: I've had to restrain myself from playing the game, because I've been clocking in about 5h each night since I got it, and as a dad, I only really have about 2h of "free time." Meaning, I was staying up until 2-3am, then waking up with my kid at 7am, for a good 4 days straight.

I've been doing the non-dad equivalent, going to bed at 2 or 3am, getting up at 6am for work, bleagh, repeat until passing out from exhaustion since it came out (I was actually a bit more moderate the first few days). You can get CAUGHT UP in this world, and it came to a head this weekend when my wife went out for a bachelorette party and I played from about 6pm when she left until finally going to bed at 8am, exhausted and ashamed. =) I didn't even advance the story that much, only did one temple, but was just general exploring, questing, hunting, grinding, upgrading (I got a bit obsessed aquiring a key item that required a lot of shrines). This is not the norm as I'm usually very goal oriented, get in, beat it, get out, but on the contrary I'm actively holding back and fucking around with everything else the game has to offer first to extend my play time, which is a little scary to me (hell, I only did the temple for the heart =).

Quote
Sleep deprivation aside, I regret nothing. Having an absolute blast. The game is a huge accomplishment. It feels like the game world I had in my head when playing through the first two Zeldas.

Agree totally, I wouldn't be playing it like I described above, like one of my favorite games, if it wasn't that damn good and fun all over, and in mutiple ways simultaneously. It continues moving up in the Zelda pantheon in my mind; a few days ago I was thinking top five at least (LoZ, ALttP, Oot, WW, BotW), but that was easy, now I'm considering top three, and that's where the untouchables (LoZ, ALttP, OoT) reside... :magni:

Quote
My only criticism so far is reserved for a certain forested portion of the game

Yeah... the Lost Woods suck as ever. They know it too, "You don't look thrilled."

My biggest criticism though stems from my suspicion that they removed Wii U touch controls/maps precisely because of how great it could have been so it wouldn't undermine the Switch version further, which I get, but still sucks. Hey, even if that made the Wii U version the definitive one, I still couldn't play it at a hip rooftop social gathering. =)
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on March 13, 2017, 06:21:44 PM
Damn... I'll need to reserve a good 1h on the next podcast for Zelda, won't I?  :ganishka:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on March 14, 2017, 08:06:35 PM
Damn... I'll need to reserve a good 1h on the next podcast for Zelda, won't I?  :ganishka:

Yeah, and I need to quit the leisurely pace anyway and just hunker down and finish it because this lifestyle is killing me (and I'm tired of avoiding spoiler content =). I'll see if it still keeps me hooked after that, but hopefully in less intense fashion.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on March 14, 2017, 08:16:56 PM
Yeah, and I need to quit the leisurely pace anyway and just hunker down and finish it

That's actually the exact opposite of what my approach has been so far. I've intentionally limited my exploration to the eastern half of the map, so I can mentally reserve "half" the game for later. And I don't intend to venture into Hyrule Castle until I feel properly "ready" to start the beginning of the end.

In any case, I got pretty close to the castle in the process of acquiring memories and got utterly fucked by Guardians, so clearly I'm not ready.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on March 14, 2017, 10:28:36 PM
That's actually the exact opposite of what my approach has been so far. I've intentionally limited my exploration to the eastern half of the map, so I can mentally reserve "half" the game for later. And I don't intend to venture into Hyrule Castle until I feel properly "ready" to start the beginning of the end.

That's more or less how I've been doing it too, actively subverting the advancement of the main game from the start really, but I'm not adult enough to moderate my playtime and am lowering my quality of life otherwise, so I need to free myself, oh and Hyrule, from Ganon's clutches! At least a little. :ganishka:

I'm actually pretty close too given just how much time I've spent subverting, 3/4th's of the way there in a very literal sense. :carcus:

Quote
In any case, I got pretty close to the castle in the process of acquiring memories and got utterly fucked by Guardians, so clearly I'm not ready.

You're ready, you just don't know it yet! :guts: The first one I ran at instead of away from and won was fully mobile actually, but I think I wedged him a bit on an island in a shallow swamp so he couldn't string me out and obliterate me (I was holding onto some pretty heavy duty weaponry at the time too). I didn't realize that though, so thinking it was relatively easy I tried fucking with the next one out in the open and got burnt to a crisp. This ultimately lead to my "scratch free" strategy, if you're ready to hunt the hunters: make them come to you, get behind a large object, a thick tree, tall wall, or a Guardian ruin is ironically ideal, that'll break their aim and take their fire, then when they try to come around time stop them for a second and use the opening and go after their leg(s). Busting one leg will give you an opening to hit the next etc etc, reset and repeat as needed until they're dead. Having a good weapon, particularly one requiring a lot of heart, will make this almost too easy. =)[/quote]
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Sareth on March 15, 2017, 03:00:50 AM
I think those little Korok jerks are working with Ganon, always distracting me with their stupid games and making me go off course.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Gamehowitzer on March 15, 2017, 05:10:17 AM
Well if your'e looking to hunt the hunters as you put it: my personal preference is to Ride in on my horse, and just start wacking them while trotting around them. Im pretty far in though with most of the weapons i'm finding being 30+ damage. or if you go in on foot just pop a quick arrow in the eye and proceed to take out the legs. if you need time to aim shoot a fire arrow down and proceed to take advantage of the paraglider to dodge a laser or slow time and aim another arrow at its eye. or you could just hide and chuck bombs at them like i did my first time  :guts:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on March 15, 2017, 02:54:53 PM
I think those little Korok jerks are working with Ganon, always distracting me with their stupid games and making me go off course.

Solid theory, and I finally invested in something other than weapon slots the other day (because it was like 1 seed, as opposed to a dozen, to carry a 5th shield and I was gathering ancient gear)!

Well if your'e looking to hunt the hunters as you put it: my personal preference is to Ride in on my horse, and just start wacking them while trotting around them. Im pretty far in though with most of the weapons i'm finding being 30+ damage. or if you go in on foot just pop a quick arrow in the eye and proceed to take out the legs. if you need time to aim shoot a fire arrow down and proceed to take advantage of the paraglider to dodge a laser or slow time and aim another arrow at its eye. or you could just hide and chuck bombs at them like i did my first time  :guts:

Well, mine was a relatively safe and simple method, but if you want to do it fast and in style I like a combination of the techniques you highlight: ride up on them, jump off your horse, draw your bow in slo-mo, hit 'em in the eye and then hack 'em to death before they know what hit 'em (and you always have time stop/lightning if things go haywire). Speaking of high level weapons, you can basically roll with ++ ancient gear all day by revisiting all the Major Test of Strength shrines after every Blood Moon. Using the Master Sword it won't even cost you any weapons in the process and while it's recharging you've got an armory of ancient stuff just as strong in the meantime! Also, I found a Royal Claymore location on top of the stone structure of Woodland Tower; that's an easy way to grab a 52 dmg weapon. :isidro:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Johnstantine on March 15, 2017, 07:38:32 PM
You're ready, you just don't know it yet! :guts: The first one I ran at instead of away from and won was fully mobile actually, but I think I wedged him a bit on an island in a shallow swamp so he couldn't string me out and obliterate me (I was holding onto some pretty heavy duty weaponry at the time too). I didn't realize that though, so thinking it was relatively easy I tried fucking with the next one out in the open and got burnt to a crisp. This ultimately lead to my "scratch free" strategy, if you're ready to hunt the hunters: make them come to you, get behind a large object, a thick tree, tall wall, or a Guardian ruin is ironically ideal, that'll break their aim and take their fire, then when they try to come around time stop them for a second and use the opening and go after their leg(s). Busting one leg will give you an opening to hit the next etc etc, reset and repeat as needed until they're dead. Having a good weapon, particularly one requiring a lot of heart, will make this almost too easy. =)

Or you could just wait for them to charge up their beam and you could parry with your shield. It deflects the beam back to them and should work after three or so. You can use any shield.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on March 15, 2017, 08:37:46 PM
Or you could just wait for them to charge up their beam and you could parry with your shield. It deflects the beam back to them and should work after three or so. You can use any shield.

Thanks for the tip (I only used Guardian shields to absorb the beam, and never thought to parry)! Damn, I bet I already have the timing down from all that last second jumping to avoid the blast from early on. The game continues to astonish. =)
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Johnstantine on March 15, 2017, 08:58:22 PM
Thanks for the tip (I only used Guardian shields to absorb the beam, and never thought to parry)! Damn, I bet I already have the timing down from all that last second jumping to avoid the blast from early on. The game continues to astonish. =)

This is coming from someone who was so god damn annoyed with them that I was finally like "fuck this" and wanted to kill them all.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on March 17, 2017, 02:35:37 PM
I'm afraid I may have miscalculated my plans to draw back BotW play time by finishing the main quests because I simply enjoy the fucking around more. I did my last story quest yesterday before the final boss, which felt obligatory and made me think it's time anyway, but then last night when I was small screening it in bed, so not finishing the game then, I end up playing 3 hours longer than I wanted to doing nothing in particular, and loving it! As a matter of fact, I can't wait to be done with the story, and spoilerly, parts so I can completely focus on and dive into everything else in the world. I'm doomed. :ganishka:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Walter on March 17, 2017, 02:44:38 PM
I can relate -- I'm a little more than 25 hours into the game right now, and I haven't done any real story quests yet (and still only discovered half of the map -- I've just been exploring the areas I've already uncovered via towers). I just don't want the game to end. And I'm afraid that after I start down the story path, I'll end up building momentum to finish it up.

Now, take all of that big talk and throw it away, because I quite literally stumbled my way into Hyrule Castle last night ( :ganishka: ) , while trying to find one of the memories that's closest to the castle. I was avoiding a Guardian, and ended up falling into the moat. Then, I found an opening into the castle, and the awesome music started playing. So I figured why not see how far I could make it into the castle itself. Turns out pretty far, even with just 7 heart containers. I chose to turn back after I felt I was getting somewhere close to the halfway point (you'll get a sense of it once you're near). Afterall, I don't even have the Master Sword yet. What was I going to do, use my soup spoon against Ganon?

So yeah, avoiding story quests while simultaneously bumbling my way into the final dungeon. That's me.  :void:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on March 20, 2017, 11:47:02 PM
I can relate -- I'm a little more than 25 hours into the game right now, and I haven't done any real story quests yet (and still only discovered half of the map -- I've just been exploring the areas I've already uncovered via towers). I just don't want the game to end, so I'm doing as much as I can to balance having fun with not progressing.

Yeah, I'm trying to decide if I'm going to look things up once I "beat the game" or still keep a moratorium on that and just keep exploring (I'm pretty sure I'm leaning the latter way, with maybe I couple exceptions =).

Like: http://kotaku.com/how-to-build-an-airship-in-zelda-breath-of-the-wild-1793370556

And according to the comments you can drive the rafts around using a metal object and magnesis! Despite how much fun I'm having this game keeps making make me feel like I'm still not playing it right. Nintendo took off the handcuffs, but not in my head. I'm still playing largely within normal Zelda parameters.

Quote
That being said, I quite literally stumbled my way into Hyrule Castle last night, while trying to find one of the memories that's closest to the castle. And once I found an opening, the awesome music started playing. So I figured why not see how far I could make it into the castle itself. Turns out pretty far, even with just 7 heart containers. I chose to turn back after I felt I was getting somewhere close to the halfway point (you'll get a sense of it once you're near). Afterall, I don't even have the Master Sword yet. What was I going to do, use my soup spoon against Ganon?

I actually got that memory last night, and had the same experience my first time exploring the castle, surprised how far I could get because there was no artificial barriers one can't get around with a little ingenuity, practice, and a lot of deaths (can't fight something waiting for you in a room? Literally climb over that room! =). Oh, but there's plenty of weapons on site to use against the weaker enemies and even Ganon, the problem is they'll all break before he does! :ganishka:


One last story: My totally game-deficient wife killed a Guardian last night! It took Mipha's Grace, a lot of fairies (all of mine as a matter of fact :puck:), and a lot of yelling, but she did it! It makes me sad because it really just means my Link is overpowered (there's little way around it once you do the main quests either, unless you just don't upgrade hearts or armor). I was actually researching buying the DLC hard mode and considering starting over with it but I guess that's not an option yet...

BTW, best armor in the game is the Soldier's Gear, right? You get pointed to it super early and it's relatively cheap/easy to upgrade. By the time you upgrade it 3 times you don't need any special resistances so the much more costly specialized high end armors are far more inefficient. Currently rocking a Hero's tunic, Soldier helm, and Ancient Greaves, all 3x upgraded, so when I can wear them I'm not even worried about damage anymore.

BTW Wally, that might be a reason for you to consider weaving in some main quests/bosses before you pass them by (and defeating them carries unique rewards that aid in exploration as well).


Update: https://youtu.be/a2qalbhz-_Q


Review Update:
(I'm going to talk about the game in a familiar way, but I'm not giving any major specifics away)

Pros: All of it? :guts: Just kidding, I'll try to be more specific, but I think that will come more easily to the con section because there's honestly so much good it's just easier to list the bad. For one thing, it fixes Zelda! Even if you didn't think it was that broken. Awesome and engaging open world Hyrule with almost complete freedom to explore every inch of it, and a quantity AND quality ratio rarely, if ever, seen for a game world of this size. Basically, a modern open world game with Nintendo's charming fingerprints all over it, instead of those fingers squeezing the life out of a more tightly controlled experience.

Some specifics...

Climbing: This is pretty much what changes the way you play Zelda. It's also a very natural and simple climbing mechanic. At first it seems to easy, but it's also nice to be able to do it like most actions without having to hold down a special button and accidentally falling off or something. Anyway, it would be hard to go back to climbing vines or looking for hookshot targets without feeling like it's broken (though they do make you do just that for the dungeons... I guess climbing only ruins obstacle based puzzling =).

Combat: The combat is another case where it seems simple at first but you'll soon come to recognize the nuance and versatility available to you, especially when things go haywire and you have to improvise. Definitely switch the sprint and jump buttons so you can more intuitively execute running attacks or cancel your bow. The common bitch here is the durability of weapons, or lack thereof, but that basically boils down to: I want to play it like every other game and this is different, or I want to hoard shit. My answer is it is at no time a real hindrance and basically the extremity of it is what makes it truly different and forces you to play differently in response, plus there's still plenty of shit to collect and hoard. Also, if you embrace this instead of fighting against it, I found it a relief not to have to worry about falling in love with or coveting weapons because they weren't going to last; don't save anything for the end because it won't last and you need room for the next thing, so use what you got and get something better! Thoroughly enjoyable if you don't try to play it like a traditional game in this regard when it's not. Also, there IS a prominent escape hatch if you really can't stand it, but by that point you should have plenty to work with.

Art: The art style is like Miyamoto meets Miyazaki, and pretty perfectly blends the more hard fantasy and cartoony styles of Zelda; much better than the compromised style of SS, this just works whether it's funny, quirky character designs or gorgeous, hyper-realistic vistas.

Music: Effectively minimalist, which makes for some nice quiet moments alone in this great big world, but it's not hard to imagine them being able to do something more memorable than smooth piano arrangements of the classics. I can't really think of an original tune from the game save for the tickling of the ivories you hear when a Guardian has you in it's sights, which is still chilling. But it's a far cry from the days of OoT essentially giving you a functioning musical instrument and teaching you to play it or Wind Waker's peerlessly evocative score, including musical cues for when there's an enemy nearby, the enemy sees/engages you, the string section coming in when/if you pull your sword, and musical hits for every successful attack and a crescendo and final victory sound upon conclusion. But, you know, the little fight bell in this one is cute. =)

In summation, it has highly addictive gameplay regardless of story progression (I beat it twice and can still go for hours at a time, oh yeah =). It's hard not to speak of those positives in generalities and superlatives though because of how wide open it is, and because that's where its strengths lie, and vice versa...


Cons: Some world building details and plot is ultimately pretty underwhelming, and what parts of the story were promising aren't really paid off well (the "good" ending is worse than the regular one =); simply put, the story works best as a setup for this world but isn't really worthy of it. None of the main characters are among their best incarnations, and the main supporting cast are just a bunch of stereotypes (the cool big dude, the arrogant showoff, the competent woman warrior, the loving healer, etc). The only exception are the characters inhabiting the world, which are consistently interesting or at least to the point with useful information or quests.

I was worried all this love for the game was going to go down with the story if it began to sink, like Skyward Sword, and it did sink, in no small part because I happened to do the most interesting story part first. But, it ultimately didn't matter because the fun of the game experience isn't so wed to your progression like recent Zeldas (which is a good change because I don't think they've got anything amazing story-wise up their sleeve). So, even though my story progress became increasingly underwhelming, the rest of the world, which is by far the majority of the game, lost little luster or joy. In fact, I continued to be impressed with it even after I'd completed the story and felt REALLY free to try anything and everything and realizing something was indeed waiting for me behind almost every stone or at the top of each peak. Of course, the game play isn't perfect either...

With so much going on there's plenty of nitpicks one could make with some of the design choices, particularly the controls and menus. But, it's streamlining so much complicated shit it's easy to imagine it being far more cumbersome and complicated. Perhaps Nintendo rightly exercised more control here, because as weird as scrolling the menus on multiple layers and levels can feel, that it actually sort of works is an achievement.

Anyway, my biggest substantive complaint is with the dungeons. By design, a lot of the dungeon crawling and puzzling has been split up into the 100+ shrines in the game, and the 4 Devine Beasts, which are moderately larger, but still quite small by past standards. I understand the point of emphasizing the overworld exploration and discovery of the shrines/dungeons themselves, but I still would have preferred larger and more challenging dungeons, particularly in the way of enemy encounters, which are great on the surface and virtually absent in the dungeons save for some perfunctory encounters and the relatively few combat shrines (which aren't even as good as that sounds). I would have preferred they reduced the number of shrines and increased the number of Devine Beasts or naturally existing dungeons accordingly. This is something that does matter to me and hurts the game world because as great and immersive as it is, I think it would have been that much better with similarly large and immersive labyrinths in addition to or even instead of the total shrine a la carte experience. Imagine how great it would be if you found and got lost in caves or dungeon ruins on a scale relative to the overworld? Well, at least that's something for next time.


Speaking of next time, and this game's place in the Zelda legacy, while I don't think it knocks anybody out of the Triforce of LoZ (Courage), ALttP (Wisdom), or OoT (Power), I do think it's worthy and fits nicely in the top 5 (let's call them The Five Champions =) along with Wind Waker (we'll see, time will tell, and the case can still be made for others of course). So, with that said, I'm going to sit back and wait for Aaz to tell me why The Adventure of Link is actually better than all those games! :ganishka:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Ruhe Strom on March 28, 2017, 10:52:12 AM
I'm starting to regret deciding to wait until Christmas to get a Switch. This is going to be a stressful eight months. If I last that long.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aazealh on March 28, 2017, 04:41:14 PM
So, with that said, I'm going to sit back and wait for Aaz to tell me why The Adventure of Link is actually better than all those games! :ganishka:

Haha nah, I'd just switch WW with Link's Awakening. I think Zelda II is a much better game than most people give it credit for, but it's not in my top three, never was and never will be. Zelda 1, Zelda 3 and Zelda 64 (yeah fuck the subtitles :iva:) are also my "Triforce". They're games that have deeply impacted me during my childhood and that have set the bar by which I judged later games.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Griffith on May 15, 2017, 03:55:07 PM
Speaking of the bar by which we judge later games...

https://www.wsj.com/articles/nintendo-developing-the-legend-of-zelda-smartphone-game-1494820189

I've been waiting for this announcement because it raises the obvious question... will this make Phantom Hourglass/Spirit Tracks style touch screen Zelda games more historically relevant and secure one a spot in the Top 10 Zeldas: LoZ, AoL, ALttP, LA, OoT, MM, WW, TP, ALBW, BotW (not how I originally intended to post this list =)!? I know that's what I thought the obvious and important takeaway was, others may care about, you know, playing it or something, but whatever. :serpico:
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Aazealh on May 15, 2017, 05:24:10 PM
Eh, we'll see but I don't expect much from it and am therefore not interested. I just have no interest whatsoever in smartphone games. They might as well no exist as far as I'm concerned.
Title: Re: The Thread of Zelda
Post by: Gamehowitzer on May 15, 2017, 06:10:58 PM
Wall Street Journal? I didn't think they were considered a reliable source anymore.