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Berserk => Current Episodes => Topic started by: Aazealh on May 19, 2009, 12:31:34 PM

Title: Episode 304
Post by: Aazealh on May 19, 2009, 12:31:34 PM
Title: 亀裂 - Fissure (http://www.younganimal.com/berserk/)



Summary's up:

Quote
第304話 亀裂  21P  見開き4つ 

グリ空間を歪め髑髏の一撃はガニさんへ
二度にわたる転生と更なる幽界の深きに達する一太刀で因果の実は結ばれ扉を開く
ガニ真っ二つに。登頂部から光が溢れ出る。
ガニは渇望した光になりその光は世界を包み込み新世界が現れる。 次回に続く

三浦 一番忙しく一番すすまなかった章がようやく終わる。

Rough translation: Basically, SK's strike hit Ganishka (and cut him in half) because Femto distorted space, using his powers to avoid the blow. There's something about the combination of causality with Ganishka's second transmutation that results in a "door" opening. Ganishka turns into light, which is what he longed for. Ganishka's light wraps the world, and a new world appears.

Miura says that the chapter that he was the busiest with and that progressed the slowest is finally finished! (He means the Chapter of Falconia, for those who still have trouble making the episode/chapter difference.) If we're lucky, that'll mean less extended breaks.

(http://aazealh.net/Divers/PreviewEp304.jpg)
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Walter on May 19, 2009, 12:32:22 PM
To quote what I said earlier, "Hooooooooooly shit."  :isidro:

The only part that makes sense to me right now through various awful web translations is "the door opens..." "a new world appears." 

From what I've understood so far, this episode is going to rock the fucking boat on Berserk principles.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Shadow8 on May 19, 2009, 12:48:11 PM
Holy shit,  I want a translate for the quote.

A new arc will soon begin.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Cronus on May 19, 2009, 01:02:45 PM
LET THE F5 FRENZY BEGIN  :chomp:
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Rhombaad on May 19, 2009, 01:31:48 PM
Thanks for posting the summary, Aaz! Major props to Miura for making this chapter so awesome and working so hard on it!  I can't wait to see the episode! :guts:
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Judas Priestly on May 19, 2009, 01:39:40 PM
If you can't damage a godhand with a "beherit sword" then what can? SK couldn't even take Femto by surprise; W..T..F!  
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Uriel on May 19, 2009, 01:40:36 PM
God damn!!

Colour me incredibly excited, people. VERY EXCITED!
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Aazealh on May 19, 2009, 02:03:15 PM
(http://aazealh.net/Divers/Preview2Ep304.jpg)

The double page spread of Ganishka opening up leaves me speechless.

PS: No sign of Rakshas.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: BERSERK_KIT on May 19, 2009, 02:09:38 PM
Oh! It's a Great Episode. :isidro:
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Cronus on May 19, 2009, 02:11:12 PM
Ganishka became the 'light' he hoped to be.
His 'light' engulfed the world, and the 'new world' shall appear.

I recognize most of those characters, but I'm sure I'm slightly off.

Awesome looking episode.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Proj2501 on May 19, 2009, 02:39:35 PM
Just read the episode. Well it seems Femto just cannot be fucked with. In fact page 5 is a little confusing for me. Not only did Skully's attack have no effect of Femto, it was able to be manipulated? Without the translation I cannot be 100% of what is going on, but I wonder if Skully saw this coming? I kind of doubt it.

Skully's first blunder? (That we've seen at least.)

Looks like the Giant Vortex made an appearance after all. But who knows what it's effect will be. *Age O' Darkness*

Also, the fact that we've yet to see Rakshas makes his presence there all the more mysterious. He was shown for a reason...
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Cronus on May 19, 2009, 02:46:49 PM
Void did the same thing in Volume 13 when SK attempted to strike him.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Aazealh on May 19, 2009, 02:49:56 PM
Not only did Skully's attack have no effect of Femto, it was able to be manipulated? Without the translation I cannot be 100% of what is going on, but I wonder if Skully saw this coming? I kind of doubt it.

Yes, Femto manipulated space and matter (whatever, really) to avoid the blow. And SK definitely didn't see it coming.

Skully's first blunder? (That we've seen at least.)

I wonder if cutting Ganishka up with the beherit sword was really required or if Femto could have made it all happen anyway. Looking at Femto's eyes on page 06, I'm more in favor of the latter right now. Yet, with the sword being covered with beherits... Who can tell? Maybe it was meant to happen.

Void did the same thing in Volume 13 when SK attempted to strike him.

Not exactly the same thing, but yeah the result is pretty much the same in the end. Guess those members of the God Hand really don't fuck around, eh? :griffnotevil:
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Proj2501 on May 19, 2009, 02:51:08 PM
Void did the same thing in Volume 13 when SK attempted to strike him.

One major difference though Cronus, Skully had been wielding his regular weapon, not the Beherit Sword.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Skeleton on May 19, 2009, 02:51:51 PM
Well that's certainly not what I expected to happen.  :serpico:

This is such a massive event.  I feel so excited just to be able to see this happen.

Now that Ganishka is "officially" (as far as I know) done in, I feel very proud of Ganishka as a character.  For the past year or so, I've felt a sense of dread with every episode that came out.  Every time a new one was released, I thought," Great.  Ganishka is going to die in this episode in an anticlimactic way."  But this is definitely not that.  Miura truly does blow me away every. single. time.  I can't think of a much better way to die than to become a towering, world-destroying monster that bursts into a massive explosion of light, covering the world.  

I think it's great that he was split by Skull Knight's strike.  While Femto was "directing" the strike, it's much more comforting to know that technically Skull Knight's strike is the one who ended him instead of Femto overwhelming yet another character/entity.  

That just goes to show the genius of Miura.  He can create a character that you can connect to on a heart-to-heart level, a character you can back one-hundred percent, and then have that character fail and be destroyed without a trace of bitterness and sadness in the reader/fanboy.  Miura is simply amazing.

Thus concludes the eulogy of Ganishka.  :ganishka:
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Walter on May 19, 2009, 02:54:02 PM
Most interesting part of this to me was the "wave" effect the rift had on the people below. The effect looks just like how Schierke and Farnese looked in their astral/spiritual forms. What his bodes for the future and the new world... I don't know.

We also don't know how SK escaped, but I think it's safe to say he'll survive.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Cronus on May 19, 2009, 02:55:03 PM
One major difference though Cronus, Skully had been wielding his regular weapon, not the Beherit Sword.

I don't really see how that matters.  Replace the beherit sword with a Louisville Slugger limited edition and I suspect he would have bent things around just the same  :void:

edit: I see what you guys mean, the dimensional cutting portion.  Walter set me straight.

Is Femto saying it is a 'manipulation' of time to do that in the frame where he calls SK the 'Knight of Skeleton'?  Don't have my references at work to check, haha.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Vampire_Hunter_Bob on May 19, 2009, 03:03:15 PM
So what does this mean for the Astral, Mortal and Ideal worlds? Are they just all going to begin to merge into one?
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Griffith on May 19, 2009, 03:07:41 PM



(http://www.skullknight.net/griffith/void.jpg)
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Knight on May 19, 2009, 03:36:08 PM
People of Midland bought tickets and... Nothing.
Looks like Ganishka smashed Griff, and one of his little animals fluttered out from the clouds of dust. And then all in bright astral world. No Falcon of Light, breaking off dark clouds. One big cheating?
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Griffith on May 19, 2009, 03:51:30 PM
People of Midland bought tickets and... Nothing.
Looks like Ganishka smashed Griff, and one of his little animals fluttered out from the clouds of dust. And then all in bright astral world. No Falcon of Light, breaking off dark clouds.

Actually, it's very much like the prophecy was described; the black clouds being broken up by the light and enveloping the dark figure which was blocking out even the sun. Hell, given the amazing spectacle we're seeing already, I wouldn't be surprised by some kind of grand Hawk of Light appearance in the next episode.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Dani on May 19, 2009, 03:57:45 PM
Just, wow.

Very well done, I'm speechless.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: SiRAuron on May 19, 2009, 04:04:56 PM
holy fuck...just....whoa.

So looking forward to the full raw now, counting the days.


-Edited by Walter.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: luc2010 on May 19, 2009, 04:35:40 PM
That was just awesome.  Though it seemed this may have been planned.  Femto would have been able to kill ganishka but I don't without SK showing up.  He wouldn't have had such a huge display of fireworks.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Aazealh on May 19, 2009, 04:36:48 PM
Well that's certainly not what I expected to happen.  :serpico:

This is such a massive event.  I feel so excited just to be able to see this happen.

Well other than SK's intervention, this is what we'd been expecting all along, isn't it? At least it's what I had been expecting. Ganishka exploded/expanded and the power he had brought back from the abyss of the evil world was released into the world, changing it into a new one. I'm pretty sure if you search a bit you'll find discussions mentioning this exact same thing from a year ago.

anticlimactic way

Only an infidel would have believed that. Shame on you. :mozgus:

Most interesting part of this to me was the "wave" effect the rift had on the people below. The effect looks just like how Schierke and Farnese looked in their astral/spiritual forms. What his bodes for the future and the new world... I don't know.

Worlds. Merging? :idea:

We also don't know how SK escaped, but I think it's safe to say he'll survive.

:badbone: As expected. :badbone: All of Femto's power was barely enough to save his life :badbone:. And Zodd's habitual pathetic efforts aren't even worth mentioning. :badbone: (warning: this response may not be 100% objective, not to be taken too seriously)

But seriously: first time we've ever seen Femto looking kind of pissed (page 04). :void: Rough translation of what Femto says: "Wherever time reaches a junction point you appear, the Skull Knight, the one who pursues the God Hand."

So what does this mean for the Astral, Mortal and Ideal worlds? Are they just all going to begin to merge into one?

Possibly. It's corporeal, spiritual and ideal, though. Some synonyms can be used but "mortal" is a bit misleading.

People of Midland bought tickets and... Nothing.

Uhhh. I don't think you understand what's happening here. Look at the people's faces.

Anyway, I'm wondering whether Ganishka's explosion will cover the whole world or just a certain extent of the land. Like, an extent covering Midland, Griffith's soon to be kingdom.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Death May Die on May 19, 2009, 04:43:54 PM
So the Beherit Sword might be useless against the God Hand, and here I thought that maybe in the future Guts would have to utilize it to defeat the God Hand. (Much like a zelda game.)

Very interesting indeed. So, Skully indirectly opened up...the age of darkness, with ironically, light? IS skully kicking himself, is Femto just as astounded of whats going on?
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Skeleton on May 19, 2009, 04:50:48 PM
Well other than SK's intervention, this is what we'd been expecting all along, isn't it? At least it's what I had been expecting. Ganishka exploded/expanded and the power he had brought back from the abyss of the evil world was released into the world, changing it into a new one. I'm pretty sure if you search a bit you'll find discussions mentioning this exact same thing from a year ago.

That's true.  I think I didn't represent myself well.  I meant more along the lines of the conclusion of Skull Knight's attack.  I was kind of hoping he would've injured, killed, or maimed Femto in some way, but it definitely didn't turn out that way, eh?   :ganishka:

Quote
Only an infidel would have believed that. Shame on you.  :mozgus:

It was my one moment of weakness.  In my darkest hour, I doubted Miura.  Please forgive me?  :judo:

My eyes are horrible so I apologize if this is a silly question, but is that Daiba flying around Ganishka's body on page 9 and 10-11?  :daiba:
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Proj2501 on May 19, 2009, 04:56:01 PM
My eyes are horrible so I apologize if this is a silly question, but is that Daiba flying around Ganishka's body on page 9 and 10-11?  :daiba:
Man I missed that the first time. Good eye.


Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Aazealh on May 19, 2009, 04:57:02 PM
So the Beherit Sword might be useless against the God Hand, and here I thought that maybe in the future Guts would have to utilize it to defeat the God Hand. (Much like a zelda game.)

Much like a Zelda game? Is that really what you expected? :schierke: Besides it's SK's technique, why and how would Guts use it?

Very interesting indeed. So, Skully indirectly opened up...the age of darkness, with ironically, light? IS skully kicking himself, is Femto just as astounded of whats going on?

Femto pretty much says he had been waiting for him on page 03.

That's true.  I think I didn't represent myself well.  I meant more along the lines of the conclusion of Skull Knight's attack.  I was kind of hoping he would've injured, killed, or maimed Femto in some way, but it definitely didn't turn out that way, eh?   :ganishka:

Oh, well as much as I like SK, I can't say I expected him to kill Femto, really. But yeah, a little scar would have been nice. Maybe next time! :SK:

It was my one moment of weakness.  In my darkest hour, I doubted Miura.  Please forgive me?  :judo:

NO. :mozgus:

My eyes are horrible so I apologize if this is a silly question, but is that Daiba flying around Ganishka's body on page 9 and 10-11?  :daiba:

Yes, it's him.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Rhombaad on May 19, 2009, 05:41:58 PM
Wow, what an episode!  Nice avatar upgrade, Aaz, the SK is back!
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Pusz on May 19, 2009, 05:42:50 PM
303 was Holy Shit
304 is HOOOOOOLY SHIT

Skully will give a country to Griffith. Why he did it?  :judo:
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Rhombaad on May 19, 2009, 05:43:58 PM
Skully will give a country to Griffith. Why he did it?  :judo:

Well, it's not like he knew Femto would manipulate space/time to direct the strike into Ganishka. All lies within the causal current. :void:
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Walter on May 19, 2009, 05:45:40 PM
Skully will give a country to Griffith. Why he did it?  :judo:
With Femto admitting he knew Sk would appear, it's really a question of whether or not the new world could have been achieved WITHOUT SK's intervention. Femto was certainly doing ... something to Ganishka in 302. I tend to think SK wasn't necessarily needed, but inadvertantly aided.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Aazealh on May 19, 2009, 06:08:13 PM
Nice avatar upgrade, Aaz, the SK is back!

Thanks! :SK:

By the way guys, just a side note, but it's not the first time we hear about the "junction of times". Ubik uses the same word after SK saves Guts and Casca during the Occultation ceremony, and so does SK when he warns Guts about the Incarnation to come at the end of volume 18, in episode 142.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Rhombaad on May 19, 2009, 06:15:21 PM
By the way guys, just a side note, but it's not the first time we hear about the "junction of times". Ubik uses the same word after SK saves Guts and Casca during the Occultation ceremony, and so does SK when he warns Guts about the Incarnation to come at the end of volume 18, in episode 142.

I thought it sounded familiar.  Thanks for the reminder. :guts:
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Marik on May 19, 2009, 06:16:59 PM
It looks like SK is acting the Idea's plot.  :idea:

Femto used him..and he has revealed his true power against the most supposed dangerous weapon for the god hand.(As I said earlier in the previous topic, Griffith has to apologize with Zodd for the frighten since he didn't told him nothing about the appearance of his dear bald friend).  :griffnotevil:

At this rate if SK is a badass enough, he may try(IMO) to use Guts to beat down somehow Femto or God Hand.

Anyway awesome episode!!!  :SK:
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Walter on May 19, 2009, 06:26:18 PM
It looks like SK is acting the Idea's plot.  :idea:
And you just had to rub it in, didn't  you?  :judo:

Quote
At this rate if SK is a badass enough, he may try(IMO) to use Guts to beat down somehow Femto or God Hand.
:isidro:  :isidro:  :isidro: INCREDIBLE DEDUCTION!  :isidro:  :isidro:  :isidro:

Moving on, it's a minor detail, but one that struck me as interesting ... Femto uses the generic term "Dokuro no Kishi" for Skully. It's what Guts calls him after their first meeting in vol 9, but it has always been sort of a "fake" name strapped on him for convenience purposes. One would think Femto would  use a more formal title, since he's so in-the-know on things behind the scenes. Slan even calls him "your majesty." But oh well, The Skull Knight it will remain :SK:
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Gaahl on May 19, 2009, 06:44:59 PM
Just a thought, but could it be that Griffith used the exact same space-bending ability back then, when all those arrows just missed him (in volume 22, just before Locus, Rakshas and Grunbeld are introduced)?
If thats the case, it would cast a slightly different light on him: It's not that weapons are somehow unable to hit him, but he can avoid them with ease in way that gives the impression he couldn't be hit.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Aazealh on May 19, 2009, 06:46:47 PM
It looks like SK is acting the Idea's plot.  :idea:

No shit.

At this rate if SK is a badass enough, he may try(IMO) to use Guts to beat down somehow Femto or God Hand.

People have been speculating about this pretty much since SK first appeared in volume 9. Just saying...

Just a thought, but could it be that Griffith used the exact same space-bending ability back then, when all those arrows just missed him (in volume 22, just before Locus, Rakshas and Grunbeld are introduced)?

Of course.

If thats the case, it would cast a slightly different light on him: It's not that weapons are somehow unable to hit him, but he can avoid them with ease in way that gives the impression he couldn't be hit.

Well it was never said that normal weapons couldn't hit him, just that they couldn't harm him. There's a nuance. It's just like how Guts couldn't have done anything to Slan or Ganishka with a normal sword.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Jaze1618 on May 19, 2009, 06:51:54 PM
Don't forget when the rocks fell and he protected Casca during the climax of the battle at the hill of swords
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: BerserkMJM on May 19, 2009, 06:53:42 PM
Anyway, I'm wondering whether Ganishka's explosion will cover the whole world or just a certain extent of the land. Like, an extent covering Midland, Griffith's soon to be kingdom.
Hmm.

I wonder if this light will reach Guts and crew, providing yet another roadblock to Elfhelm, or if this will somehow effect Elfhelm before they can reach it.

So much to look forward to.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Aazealh on May 19, 2009, 06:58:18 PM
I wonder if this light will reach Guts and crew, providing yet another roadblock to Elfhelm, or if this will somehow effect Elfhelm before they can reach it.

So much to look forward to.

Precisely one of the things I had in mind. And the next episode would be a good time to go back to Guts, too.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Proj2501 on May 19, 2009, 07:05:51 PM
Precisely one of the things I had in mind. And the next episode would be a good time to go back to Guts, too.

Right, it'd be a great opportunity to get a narration from Schierke of what precisely is happening to the world.
Who better than her?
Well...
:SK:
:daiba:


Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Walter on May 19, 2009, 07:13:53 PM
I'd considered how it would affect Elfhelm too, but I don't think merging the worlds will necessarily be a "roadblock" for anything Guts and Co. are trying to achieve. As I've reiterated already, check out the last few pages of this episode -- everyone's bathed in what looks like an astral light, and within it, they resemble the forms Schierke and Farnese used during astral projection. This event could result in _more_ magic in the world, not less. Or at the very least, more astral phenomenon.

If that's the case, it makes more sense then that Griffith wanted to eliminate magicians who could use, understand and access these phenomena.

When they get to Elfhelm, I was actually thinking of some scene  along the lines of ... "this restoration spell hasn't worked for centuries... but now it does!"  :serpico:
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Rhombaad on May 19, 2009, 07:15:13 PM
Do you think the merging of the worlds will have any effect on Guts's and Casca's brands?  I almost wonder if the pain would be so overwhelming that they'd be in mortal danger.

I was actually thinking of something  along the lines of ... "this restoration spell hasn't worked for centuries... but now it does!"  :serpico:

:ganishka:
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: MaN on May 19, 2009, 07:17:07 PM
Matter turning into pure energy.... now thats pretty awesome

Seems like Skullknight just hightailed out of there. One wonders if SK had any indication that his attack won't work and if that is the case why would he continue with it? If the Beherit sword didn't work then does he have any other tricks left to face the God hand (other than Guts) ?

Any speculations what might have happened to the beherit that changed Ganishka? Have there been instances where the beherit just disappeared after the apostle was killed/liberated? I wonder if Daiba will pick it up again.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Walter on May 19, 2009, 07:19:55 PM
Matter turning into pure energy.... now thats pretty awesome
I don't think we can speak with such certainty about exactly what just happened.

Quote
Any speculations what might have happened to the beherit that changed Ganishka? Have there been instances where the beherit just disappeared after the apostle was killed/liberated? I wonder if Daiba will pick it up again.
With all the thousands of apostles in Griffith's army, why are you concerned about that ONE beherit that Ganishka used all those years ago?
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: CowTip on May 19, 2009, 07:27:08 PM
I don't know, but if this really is world encompassing, I don't know if I'd really want to be out in the middle of the ocean in case this all precludes to some sort of crazy monster infestation. But yes, all in all, I agree that this would be a very good time to go back to Guts and company. I'm crossing my fingers!
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Marik on May 19, 2009, 07:33:55 PM
:isidro:  :isidro:  :isidro: INCREDIBLE DEDUCTION!  :isidro:  :isidro:  :isidro:

Thanks man!   :serpico: Glad you appreciate my so iiiiiiincredible deducion!  :serpico:

Moving on, it's a minor detail, but one that struck me as interesting ... Femto uses the generic term "Dokuro no Kishi" for Skully. It's what Guts calls him after their first meeting in vol 9, but it has always been sort of a "fake" name strapped on him for convenience purposes. One would think Femto would  use a more formal title, since he's so in-the-know on things behind the scenes. Slan even calls him "your majesty." But oh well, The Skull Knight it will remain :SK:

Maybe Femto was mocking him saying "Dokuro no Kishi"?

No shit.

Ahah  :slan:  :idea:

People have been speculating about this pretty much since SK first appeared in volume 9. Just saying...

Yes I know, infact mine was just a remark on it looking at the SK failure.(He assumed too much about get rid of God Hand)  :void:
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Griffith on May 19, 2009, 07:37:51 PM
Episode 305 Preview:

(http://www.skullknight.net/griffith/305preview.jpg)

The beginning of the chapter of HOLY SHIT!:isidro: (http://www.skullknight.net/griffith/lavos.wav)

:daiba:

Unless :rakshas: cuts his head off on the way down.

I'd considered how it would affect Elfhelm too, but I don't think merging the worlds will necessarily be a "roadblock" for anything Guts and Co. are trying to achieve. As I've reiterated already, check out the last few pages of this episode -- everyone's bathed in what looks like an astral light, and within it, they resemble the astral forms Schierke and Farnese used during astral projection. This event could result in _more_ magic in the world, not the other way around.

Another thing I was thinking of is that the worlds were already merging, or experiencing more crossover than should normally be possible. So, what if that merger was only the primer for a completely new paint job, which is currently spilling out of Ganishka all over the World? Haha, what if people are going to look like they do at the end of 305 all the time now, for example? =)

Also, for the umpteenth time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DpPicOZOig&fmt=18

Yeah, we pretty much called this exactly. :void:

Do you think the merging of the worlds will have any effect on Guts's and Casca's brands?  I almost wonder if the pain would be so overwhelming that they'd be in mortal danger.

Hard to say what will happen, but I wouldn't think they'd be so incapacitated for the remainder.

Seems like Skullknight just hightailed out of there. One wonders if SK had any indication that his attack won't work and if that is the case why would he continue with it?

I think it's safe to assume Skully didn't know, after all, it wasn't that his attack hit and just failed, Femto parried it in a sense, so we don't know how effective it might have been against him otherwise.

Any speculations what might have happened to the beherit that changed Ganishka?

It was delicious! :SK:

I don't know, but if this really is world encompassing, I don't know if I'd really want to be out in the middle of the ocean in case this all precludes to some sort of crazy monster infestation. But yes, all in all, I agree that this would be a very good time to go back to Guts and company. I'm crossing my fingers!

I have to admit, if we don't see some monster or Apostle sharks at some point, the series won't be whole for me. Anyway, I'm expecting quite a spectacle in the next episode to cap this off, and with perhaps a reaction from Guts, Schierke and coompany before this event comes to a close and the focus moves back to them. It depends on if Miura wants to have several episodes of immediate aftermath or wants to leave us in suspense along with Guts' crew.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Rhombaad on May 19, 2009, 07:52:43 PM
(http://www.skullknight.net/griffith/305preview.jpg) (http://www.skullknight.net/griffith/lavos.wav)

Epic. :SK:

Hard to say what will happen, but I wouldn't think they'd be so incapacitated for the remainder.

Neither do I, but I was thinking they might be in danger until they reach Elfhelm.  Then again, it may have absolutely no effect on them other than the feeling that the world has changed in some way, since they already sense something is up.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Shadow8 on May 19, 2009, 07:55:03 PM
Already a preview.

This is  great, the Idea of evil is there :idea:
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Cronus on May 19, 2009, 07:56:45 PM
Hahaha, goddamn it Griff, I thought that was real for a minute and my mind exploded Scanners style!
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Aazealh on May 19, 2009, 08:00:24 PM
I'd considered how it would affect Elfhelm too, but I don't think merging the worlds will necessarily be a "roadblock" for anything Guts and Co. are trying to achieve.

Let's not forget that Elfhelm was already in the spiritual world though. It might actually not be affected too much compared to the rest of the world.

Do you think the merging of the worlds will have any effect on Guts's and Casca's brands?  I almost wonder if the pain would be so overwhelming that they'd be in mortal danger.

They'll probably feel it. Being in mortal danger though... I don't think so.

Seems like Skullknight just hightailed out of there. One wonders if SK had any indication that his attack won't work and if that is the case why would he continue with it? If the Beherit sword didn't work then does he have any other tricks left to face the God hand (other than Guts) ?

Because Femto avoided the attack this time doesn't mean the sword cannot harm him or the others. And really, SK's been failing at taking them down for a long time, yet he's still trying. The man is obviously quite relentless. And patient. Very, very patient.

Any speculations what might have happened to the beherit that changed Ganishka? Have there been instances where the beherit just disappeared after the apostle was killed/liberated? I wonder if Daiba will pick it up again.

Who knows? Daiba might be carrying as we speak. Or maybe it went its way long ago. Beherits do their own thing.

Maybe Femto was mocking him saying "Dokuro no Kishi"?

How would that be mocking him at all? It's not like it's an insulting nickname.

Ahah  :slan:  :idea:

Yes? Congratulations for stating the obvious?

Yes I know, infact mine was just a remark on it looking at the SK failure.(He assumed too much about get rid of God Hand)  :void:

You're the one assuming too much here. You don't know what SK thought or that he was certain his plan would work. He's been trying to destroy the God Hand for a long time, and so far he hasn't succeeded. Does that mean he will never succeed? We'll see by the time the series end. Furthermore, because Femto thwarted him this time doesn't mean his Beherit Sword cannot harm a member of the God Hand if it does strike him or her.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Marik on May 19, 2009, 08:06:36 PM
Yes? Congratulations for stating the obvious?

How serious.  :serpico: Ok next time I won't joke with the obvious things.  :azan:   :serpico:

You're the one assuming too much here. You don't know what SK thought or that he was certain his plan would work. He's been trying to destroy the God Hand for a long time, and so far he hasn't succeeded. Does that mean he will never succeed? We'll see by the time the series end. Furthermore, because Femto thwarted him this time doesn't mean his Beherit Sword cannot harm a member of the God Hand if it does strike him or her.

Ok.  :serpico: Got it. I am sorry for little irony.  :serpico:  :slan:
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Aazealh on May 19, 2009, 08:10:43 PM
How serious.  :serpico: Ok next time I won't joke with the obvious things.  :azan:   :serpico:

Ah, there was a joke?

Ok.  :serpico: Got it. I am sorry for little irony.  :serpico:  :slan:

What irony?
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Griffith on May 19, 2009, 08:13:45 PM
Hahaha, goddamn it Griff, I thought that was real for a minute and my mind exploded Scanners style!

Haha, yeah, the original spread really sells the thought, I saw it and couldn't help but imagine seeing Idea coming out of there.

Because Femto avoided the attack this time doesn't mean the sword cannot harm the God Hand. And really, SK's been failing at taking them down for a long time, yet he's still trying. The man is obviously quite relentless. And patient. Very, very patient.

That's one way of putting it, but Guts would probably tell him to stop screwing around. :guts:
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: MaN on May 19, 2009, 08:16:59 PM
Episode 305 Preview:

The beginning of the chapter of HOLY SHIT!:isidro:

Haha awesome GnM... For a second I thought it was IDEA coming out of Void's head :void:<--> :idea:
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Marik on May 19, 2009, 08:20:30 PM
Ah, there was a joke?

It seems so, if it wasn't clear now you know it.

What irony?

Quote
He assumed too much about get rid of God Hand

This. Anyway I must apologize for having hit seriousness. I have put  :serpico: assumed italicized to express irony.
If it wasn't clear, all I can tell you is a great sorry.  :serpico:
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Aazealh on May 19, 2009, 08:21:11 PM
That's one way of putting it, but Guts would probably tell him to stop screwing around. :guts:

Haha, definitely. Actually, their next talk (in Elfhelm, most likely) promises to be very interesting. How would Guts react if SK told him he tried to take the Falcon down and failed (assuming he tells him)? Somehow I have a hard time imagining Guts completely giving up the idea of killing him.

It seems so, if it wasn't clear now you know it.

Well it didn't seem so to me. And there's no problem with making jokes as long as they're comprehensible and actually funny.

I have put  :serpico: assumed italicized to express irony.

So what's ironic about it? I'm trying to understand your reasoning here. It would be ironic to say that SK planned his attack so well that he got played like a fool. Saying he assumed too much isn't ironic.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Funkmasta Zeph on May 19, 2009, 08:27:32 PM
Guts is going to have to go through some super powerup if he even wants to get to Skull Knight's level of not succeding.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Griffith on May 19, 2009, 08:28:48 PM
Actually, their next talk (in Elfhelm, most likely) promises to be very interesting. How would Guts react if SK told him he tried to take the Falcon down and failed (assuming he tells him)? Somehow I have a hard time imagining Guts completely giving up the idea of killing him.

Well, that ties into one of the important things I think Guts is going to get in Elfhelm, a higher purpose. I think his goals will come full circle, but his outlook and motivations will certainly change.

Guts is going to have to go through some super powerup if he even wants to get to Skull Knight's level of not succeding.

Ho ho! Seriously though, Guts has plenty of power already; remember, compared to Guts, even Skully is a finesse player, to put it in Basketball terms. =)
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: xela26 on May 19, 2009, 08:31:35 PM
Is the episode 305 preview real   ????
This is incredible !!!!!!

Coming back to episode 304, thank you Ganishka, you perfectly played, until the end, the mission you was granted by Idea of evil  (you too, SK)!!
Rest in Peace Ganishka !! :ganishka: :daiba:

A lot of people were expecting Femto will find a way to escape SK attack, and he did it so easily !!
but i didn't expect SK's blow will hit Ganishka...
SK has to train much more to match a GH.... :SK:

Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Aazealh on May 19, 2009, 08:33:23 PM
Well, that ties into one of the important things I think Guts is going to get in Elfhelm, a higher purpose. I think his goals will come full circle, but his outlook and motivations will certainly change.

Yeah, definitely. Forget the personal vengeance, he'll do it to SAVE THE WORLD! :void:

Is the episode 305 preview real   ????

No...

SK has to train much more to match a GH.... :SK:

Somehow I have the feeling that training might not be enough... If the time is right, though, maybe... :SK:
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Rhombaad on May 19, 2009, 08:34:35 PM
Is the episode 305 preview real   ????
This is incredible !!!!!!

Griff, you gotta make your photoshops look crappier, you're confusing these poor souls. :ganishka:
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Marik on May 19, 2009, 08:39:23 PM
Well it didn't seem so to me. And there's no problem with making jokes as long as they're comprehensible and actually funny.

So what's ironic about it? I'm trying to understand your reasoning here. It would be ironic to say that SK planned his attack so well that he got played like a fool. Saying he assumed too much isn't ironic.

Ok I'll try one more time.

Since SK is a VERY WISE BEING, (or am I wrong?), he assumed too much. Anyway if a sentence doesn't make you smile doesn't mean that is not comprehensible for others. Than if you think that everyone has your exact conclusion, it's fine. 

Anyway if this explanation doesn't satisfies you I cannot help anymore.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Aazealh on May 19, 2009, 08:42:03 PM
Ok I'll try one more time.

Since SK is a VERY WISE BEING, (or am I wrong?), he assumed too much. Anyway if a sentence don't make you smile doesn't mean that is not comprehensible for other, than if you think that everyone has your exact conclusion, it's fine.

Yeah sure dude, no doubt everyone else's having a blast here. Hi-la-rious stuff.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Clawed The Bum on May 19, 2009, 09:33:19 PM
wow, so much epicness its unreal!
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Aazealh on May 19, 2009, 09:39:18 PM
wow, so much epicness its unreal!

Not much clawing going on, though. :sad:

:ganishka:
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Griffith on May 19, 2009, 09:41:52 PM
I'm sure if it wasn't for Skull Knight's interference, Femto could have achieved the same... with his claws! :SK:
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: TheBranded1 on May 19, 2009, 09:54:31 PM
Finally had the time to read 304! Just as all of you I am amazed and relieved to see after skully's attack from 303. I was just just speculating in the last thread about how the last panel in 303 left me curious if indeed the slash hit Femto or not. I know now the results now, and I was still surprised. Now we have another bundle of pics to make more speculations. The 10-11 page reminded me of the space shuttle's thrusters as they are about to make lift off and then the big bang afterwards. Of course in a colossal scale.

Thanks Miura for taking your time and delivering such wonderful art! :badbone:

EDIT: It was more like gold tending griff :serpico:
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Oburi on May 19, 2009, 11:59:42 PM
Jesus Griffith you need to be more careful with your photoshop power! You almost gave me a heartattack!
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Malachai on May 20, 2009, 12:00:33 AM
I don't know, but if this really is world encompassing, I don't know if I'd really want to be out in the middle of the ocean in case this all precludes to some sort of crazy monster infestation. But yes, all in all, I agree that this would be a very good time to go back to Guts and company. I'm crossing my fingers!

Considering the Sea's connection to the astral world i'm fairly curious to see the outcome of this....


Its interesting to me that while Miura show's us a clear change in the outward appearance of the humans (in which they all look like they've entered astral projections of themselves ala magic) we don't see any apostles? Are they going to change?

Heh, you don't suppose Rakshas jumped onto SK when Zodd attacked him do you?


Very very interesting.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Griffith on May 20, 2009, 01:42:40 AM
Heh, you don't suppose Rakshas jumped onto SK when Zodd attacked him do you?

I thought of that too because it would be easy to lose him in the similarly ragged draping around Skull Knight's horse, would be really cool, and mostly because we still don't know what the hell he was doing up there, other than observing. That said, Rakshas being able to pull that off without SK knowing seems as far-fetched to me as Skully hitting Femto completely unawares: unlikely to succeed. Still, it's right up Rakshas alley, and we don't know the full extent of his stealth abilities. In any case, it's amusing to imagine him hiding under Skully's horse all the way to Elfhelm. :rakshas:

Anyway, I'm curious to see what Rakshas role in this is; was he shown just to establish that he was in fact there, serving as a bodyguard, or has he yet to complete his duty, whether that involve Skully, Daiba, or whatever?
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Uriel on May 20, 2009, 02:25:04 AM
Anyway, I'm curious to see what Rakshas role in this is; was he shown just to establish that he was in fact there, serving as a bodyguard, or has he yet to complete his duty, whether that involve Skully, Daiba, or whatever?

Maybe Femto was expecting Skully to show up and asked Rakshas to be their for that very reason?
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: BerserkMJM on May 20, 2009, 03:03:49 AM
In any case, it's amusing to imagine him hiding under Skully's horse all the way to Elfhelm. :rakshas:

Heh. Perhaps before Hanafabuku can work his magic, Rakshas will lop his head off...
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Malachai on May 20, 2009, 04:18:55 AM
I need some gaps filled on my understanding of the berserk universe pertaining to the this new world of light.

It seems to me that the necessary components for this reaction to occur are as follows: a twice transformed human (ganishka), a deep connection to the spiritual realm (provided by the beherit sword), and probably the merging of the realms( caused by the reincarnation of Griffith).

Femto makes special mention that the connection caused by the beherit sword slash and ganishka's form have 'opened the door.'

These are things that i'm taking as fact currently (please correct me, and feel free to be as nuanced as possible).

I guess my question is: why did this happen?
(and thus enter an area which i hold as conjecture to myself)

The way i currently see it is that when a human (such as ganishka) becomes an apostle their form becomes more closely tied to the spiritual world, i'm guessing more closely than Guts or Casca (where the brand puts a person)...so beyond the interstice?  Apostles are certainly closer to the abyss.

When Ganishka put himself inside the apostle's womb he, obviously, changed again.  I'd say that his connection to the abyss was far stronger and that level of  connection to this realm is clearly represented in not only the difference in his form from other apostles, but also in his overall consciousness and awareness of the world around him.  Ganishka's initial remarks about reaching the abyss and drawing up its power  are somewhat questionable in my mind. That is to say, i'm not entirely sure he entered the abyss, where the Idea resides, but entered an area beyond the scope of the Eclipse ceremonies for certain (the vortex of souls?). I doubt his descent into the abyss because i'm guessing that anyone who would travel to such an area would meet the Idea and that he would have remarked on it in some manner. But this is not necessarily so.  To me, it seems like his intact apostle body, combined with his strong will, allowed him to keep some semblance of form and ego upon coming in contact with the vortex of souls to the point where he even houses it within himself.  His desire for the light could be contrasted with the evil spirits desire for bodily warmth?

Thats about where i stand on ganishka given what i've seen.

It seems to me that the beherit sword with its dimension slicing ability (beherits seem to be tied to the abyss given their point of creation: The Idea) when combined with a general overlap of the realms/ weakening of the Physical realm (Griffith's ability to perform miracles and make people believe in the impossible seems to be contributing to this in addition to his presence) bridges the gap to the abyss. I base such speculation on the similarities to the abyss (see: lost episode) and pg 10-11 of 304 ( where ganishka is being replaced by a gigantic hole) (the similarity in backgrounds also probably helped Griffith make his fake 305 preview more believable). If that's the case...then it seems almost as if one world is being bypassed to bring the abyss closer to the physical realm. Given the way we've seen the beherit sword work in the past, as in Qliphoth, it seems likely that the physical realm is being pulled into the astral realm, thus helping to explain the astral like forms all the people are seen to take.  Alternatively, it could be the other realms pouring into the physical realm (almost as if spiritual concentrations had properties akin to pressures of science).

Again, i'd like to hear your thoughts.

In any case, i doubt people back in Midland will have trouble seeing Puck now.:D


EDIT:

What happens to Beast!?



Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Griffith on May 20, 2009, 04:21:10 AM
Maybe Femto was expecting Skully to show up and asked Rakshas to be their for that very reason?

That would naturally be the case if Rakshas is to have anything to do with Skully, since we already know Femto certainly was expecting him. You'd think Zodd would be clued in too though... wait, of course, his natural reaction was all part of the plan! =)

Heh. Perhaps before Hanafabuku can work his magic, Rakshas will lop his head off...

Well, we keep thinking of new heads for him to lop off, but thus far he hasn't actually lopped off any. It just seems like it should be a specialty of his. :rakshas:
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: gh-zodd on May 20, 2009, 07:32:03 AM
do you think we will see some "good" spirits making appearances now that the worlds are becoming merged?


Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Henry Spencer on May 20, 2009, 09:47:43 AM
What the hell will SK do now? Will his fighting spirit be broken after this turn of events? And what will become of Daiba now? Will he become some sort of recluse after all this?

And Rakshas was just sort of there (and nothing more), really, wasn't he?
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: flagawax on May 20, 2009, 10:42:52 AM
.. Perhaps   :SK:= :rakshas: ..... heu ... no ....
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Uriel on May 20, 2009, 10:51:49 AM
Just finished reading it.

Skullknight done fucked up now!
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Johnstantine on May 20, 2009, 02:30:55 PM
Pretty awesome episode!
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Henry Spencer on May 20, 2009, 05:16:39 PM
What does the preview text on page 21 say?
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Judas Priestly on May 20, 2009, 06:12:49 PM
Heh. Perhaps before Hanafabuku can work his magic, Rakshas will lop his head off...

The way things are going, I woudn't be suprised.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Walter on May 20, 2009, 07:40:08 PM
Maybe Femto was expecting Skully to show up and asked Rakshas to be their for that very reason?
We already know Femto was expecting him. It's the first thing he says in the episode. But Rakshas' involvement is still a complete unknown. I still say he was there _just_ to witness Ganishka's fall. There's still a chance we could see a little more from his experiences on it in the following episodes.

The way i currently see it is that when a human (such as ganishka) becomes an apostle their form becomes more closely tied to the spiritual world, i'm guessing more closely than Guts or Casca (where the brand puts a person)...so beyond the interstice?  Apostles are certainly closer to the abyss.
Forget the Interstice man, it's just the brink between worlds -- not a real destination. Neither Schierke nor Flora explicitly include Apostles during their explanation in vol 24 about the inhabitants of the different worlds. However, since they're still essentially humans whose existence has been corrupted by evil, I'd say they're closer to the Astral world than the Ideal, yeah.

Quote
I doubt his descent into the abyss because i'm guessing that anyone who would travel to such an area would meet the Idea and that he would have remarked on it in some manner. But this is not necessarily so.
Indeed, it's not necessarily so at all. The Abyss is a huge "ocean of feelings." The Idea of Evil, or the portion we saw of it, only exists at a specific place within it.

As for your big paragraph about exactly what is happening in the final pages of 304, it's really anyone's guess at this point, we can see a glimpse of the Ideal World within Ganishka's towering form, and it then spills out ... something over the whole world. That's about as much as we know for sure.

Quote
In any case, i doubt people back in Midland will have trouble seeing Puck now.:D
Hehehe,  yeah, that's pretty much a guarantee. They'll be pointing out the elves as the Trolls and Ogres lumber out of the forest to rape their women  :griffnotevil:

do you think we will see some "good" spirits making appearances now that the worlds are becoming merged?
What will happen to the world is still unknown as far as the specifics of it. And while there may be positive outcomes for those who can utilize them (magicians), when you come right down to it, the God Hand are not a charitable organization. There must be some devious way they can take advantage of this merging. I just can't imagine these evil overlords would "bless" the world in a way that would truly benefit everyone. But just what that negative repercussion will be remains to be seen for now. But it's very intriguing...

What the hell will SK do now? Will his fighting spirit be broken after this turn of events?
He's likely been through much more than this before. If he truly is Gaiseric, I imagine he won't rest until the destruction of his empire is avenged. This would just be an "oops" moment for him.

======
Quotes aside, I'm wondering if this is really the end of the Falconia Chapter. It feels to me like there could be oooone more episode in it to wrap the whole thing up before the inevitable changeover to Guts as the new chapter begins. I'm REAAALLY looking forward to the next few episodes! I haven't been this on-the-edge-of-my-seat in a while.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Vampire_Hunter_Bob on May 20, 2009, 08:08:12 PM
======
Quotes aside, I'm wondering if this is really the end of the Falconia Chapter. It feels to me like there could be oooone more episode in it to wrap the whole thing up before the inevitable changeover to Guts as the new chapter begins. I'm REAAALLY looking forward to the next few episodes! I haven't been this on-the-edge-of-my-seat in a while.

I was wondering that my self. I think at this point, Miura, might just switch back over to the boat. That way when they get back to the mainland, we will see the changes from Guts and co's perspective.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Griffith on May 20, 2009, 08:41:17 PM
I think at this point Miura might just switch back over to the boat. That way when they get back to the mainland, we will see the changes from Guts and co's perspective.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdZ2BK-dkGc

 :guts:
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Aazealh on May 20, 2009, 09:22:26 PM
Its interesting to me that while Miura show's us a clear change in the outward appearance of the humans (in which they all look like they've entered astral projections of themselves ala magic) we don't see any apostles? Are they going to change?

Well it might not be an actual change per se. More like they're washed over by the wave of light and see things through their spiritual selves because of it. I wouldn't expect people to constantly look like that from now on if I were you.

I thought of that too because it would be easy to lose him in the similarly ragged draping around Skull Knight's horse, would be really cool, and mostly because we still don't know what the hell he was doing up there, other than observing. That said, Rakshas being able to pull that off without SK knowing seems as far-fetched to me as Skully hitting Femto completely unawares: unlikely to succeed.

Yeah, as much as I like the idea, the way I envisioned it in the former thread was more like he'd do it in the midst of some intense action, and even then it wasn't the likeliest thing. Yet, since we didn't see SK leave, it remains a possibility that Rakshas could have somehow managed to jump through a portal after him.

Anyway, I'm curious to see what Rakshas role in this is; was he shown just to establish that he was in fact there, serving as a bodyguard, or has he yet to complete his duty, whether that involve Skully, Daiba, or whatever?

There's also the possibility that he was just observing, maybe even for personal reasons (and I guess Griffith wouldn't really care all in all). It'd be cool to see him get Daiba on the way down, though. :rakshas:

Heh. Perhaps before Hanafabuku can work his magic, Rakshas will lop his head off...

Somehow I doubt that.

It seems to me that the necessary components for this reaction to occur are as follows: a twice transformed human (ganishka), a deep connection to the spiritual realm (provided by the beherit sword), and probably the merging of the realms

You make this sound very complicated when it's really very simple. Ganishka was filled with power he took from the abyss. SK's sword can cut through the worlds. It cut through Ganishka (beyond the mere physical level) and unleashed the huge power he had stored inside his giant body. That's it. Whether the merging of the worlds played a role or not is unknown.

the reincarnation of Griffith

Since we can be as nuanced as possible, allow me to say that this formulation is a bit misleading. The old Griffith ceased to exist when Femto was born. He was transformed, and he was given a new name for a reason: because while he's the same in some ways, he's also fundamentally different. What happened at the end of volume 21 was that Femto came into the world and was embodied in flesh. It's not the old Griffith that came back after spending a while wandering as a spirit. It's a different being, despite the similarities. Nuanced enough for you? :griffnotevil:

I guess my question is: why did this happen?

To change the world. That fits the God Hand's agenda, and beyond them, the Idea of Evil's plans. How or why, we don't know yet.

The way i currently see it is that when a human (such as ganishka) becomes an apostle their form becomes more closely tied to the spiritual world, i'm guessing more closely than Guts or Casca (where the brand puts a person)...so beyond the interstice?  Apostles are certainly closer to the abyss.

That's a confusing way to put it, especially since you use vague words here ("form"). When someone becomes an apostle, his spiritual self is changed. Infused with evil. In turn, that changes his corporeal body. And when an apostle dies, as his soul departs and joins the Vortex, his body reverts to its normal self. The key to understand things here is that what is empowered is not the corporeal. It only reflects the changes that take place on a deeper level.

As for being more closely tied to the astral world than normal people, well yes, certainly they are. However, they are not necessarily beyond the Interstice. They exist both in the material and spiritual worlds, just like branded people. Finally, when it comes to the Abyss, you shouldn't assume too many things. Closer to it than branded people or not, they are still not that close, and it doesn't matter much in the end.

All in all, keep in mind that we don't know too many things about these matters.

When Ganishka put himself inside the apostle's womb he, obviously, changed again.  I'd say that his connection to the abyss was far stronger and that level of  connection to this realm is clearly represented in not only the difference in his form from other apostles, but also in his overall consciousness and awareness of the world around him.

"Apostle's womb"? What a misnomer. When did that become an acceptable name? It's just apostles sewn together and filled with amniotic fluid. Let's not be too creative about it. Anyway, when Ganishka transmutated again, he became something beyond apostles (and it's useless to compare him to them anymore at this point). There is no need to search for vague, unclear and unsure explanations when what he says sums it all up perfectly: "I reached the abyss of the evil world, and have gained power..."

So yes, obviously his connection to the abyss was strong since he took power directly from it. And your use of words like "realm" is confusing. We are aware of 3 different worlds in Berserk: Corporeal, Astral, Ideal. That's all.

Ganishka's initial remarks about reaching the abyss and drawing up its power  are somewhat questionable in my mind. That is to say, i'm not entirely sure he entered the abyss, where the Idea resides but entered an area beyond the scope of the Eclipse ceremonies for certain (the vortex of souls?).

The problem here is to define what's part of the abyss and what isn't. Where it starts and ends. If you figure the abyss is the hole in the middle of the Vortex of Souls, then wouldn't reaching the Vortex of Souls also mean reaching the top of the abyss? I believe that trying to define places and apply limits to them by ourselves without having a solid basis for it is not a good thing. For example, "the scope of the Eclipse ceremonies" doesn't really mean anything. We know absolutely nothing about the place where Griffith's Occultation ceremony happened. And we know even less about the abyss ("abyss" being in itself a rather generic term that could be applied to different things in different contexts).

As for the Vortex of Souls, it isn't even a layer of the astral world in itself (just an area of the ocean of souls that exists at the bottom of the astral world), and probably shouldn't be defined as being before or after such and such location at this point. It's a tad subtler than that. In any case, we've just seen Ganishka opening up and what we've seen inside him tends to corroborate what he told Daiba.

I doubt his descent into the abyss because i'm guessing that anyone who would travel to such an area would meet the Idea and that he would have remarked on it in some manner. But this is not necessarily so.

Like you say, it is not necessarily so. In fact, since we know practically nothing about the Ideal part of the world, the Abyss, or the Idea of Evil, I would say that it's a pretty bad idea to assume what should or shouldn't happen in there. One thing we know is that the "ocean" that is down there is vast. Extremely so, from what we've seen of it.

To me, it seems like his intact apostle body, combined with his strong will, allowed him to keep some semblance of form and ego upon coming in contact with the vortex of souls to the point where he even houses it within himself.  His desire for the light could be contrasted with the evil spirits desire for bodily warmth?

What is "intact apostle body" supposed to mean here? I just don't see how it's related at all. Ganishka, as an apostle having some magical knowledge, used the "artificial beherit" he and Daiba had created to take power for himself directly from the source. Not necessarily "housing" the whole Vortex of Souls within himself, but maybe having leeched some of it.

Also, are you associating the specters that harass Guts at night with the souls from the Vortex? Because they're two different things.

(beherits seem to be tied to the abyss given their point of creation: The Idea)

The Idea of Evil is indeed the creator and master of the beherits, however their creation process isn't detailed aside from what Griffith sees as he descends towards the abyss in volume 13.

a general overlap of the realms/ weakening of the Physical realm (Griffith's ability to perform miracles and make people believe in the impossible seems to be contributing to this in addition to his presence)

We know that the worlds are merging. "The physical realm weakening" is something you made up.

I base such speculation on the similarities to the abyss (see: lost episode) and pg 10-11 of 304 ( where ganishka is being replaced by a gigantic hole)

Then why do you think Ganishka was mistaken when he said he went to the abyss?

if that's the case...then it seems almost as if one world is being bypassed to bring the abyss closer to the physical realm. Given the way we've seen the beherit sword work in the past, as in Qliphoth, it seems likely that the physical realm is being pulled into the astral realm, thus helping to explain the astral like forms all the people are seen to take.  Alternatively, it could be the other realms pouring into the physical realm (almost as if spiritual concentrations had properties akin to pressures of science).

The abyss isn't a "world". It's just an area at the bottom of the astral world. You're contradicting yourself in your own paragraph here. Anyway, what's hard to get in "the worlds are merging"? Why the need to relate it to pulling or pouring? Anyhow, if I had to choose between the two, right now I'd rather say something is spilling into the world.

What happens to Beast!?

Who or what is "Beast"?

do you think we will see some "good" spirits making appearances now that the worlds are becoming merged?

It's very possible. One thing I've been wondering about is whether the God Hand can fully control what's happening or not. This new world with different principles could also mean that they will be more vulnerable in a way.

What the hell will SK do now? Will his fighting spirit be broken after this turn of events?

Who knows. But I don't think that'll stop him or even depress him (is he even capable of being depressed?). It'd be more his style to digest what happened and then think of a way to succeed the next time. Look at his reaction when his attack failed: he just factually commented on what Femto did.

What does the preview text on page 21 say?

Nothing important. Check the first posts I made in this thread and you'll have most of it.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: gh-zodd on May 20, 2009, 10:48:20 PM
I'm curious if this forces others with power like Flora out of hiding since I THINK it might be easier for them to be reached/attacked because of the recent events.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: KazigluBey on May 21, 2009, 12:14:01 AM
Just finished reading it.

Skullknight done fucked up now!

Thought he had it wrapped up until the river card came and Femto won the hand.

Guts is going to have to go through some super powerup if he even wants to get to Skull Knight's level of not succeding.

Skull Knight was not destined to succeed at that point in time given the causality concept. The success, if and when it comes will most likely be an X factor, a random variable, that will break the chain of causality. Whoever or whatever represents that variable could be Guts, SK or someone/something else. Remember, the Idea of Evil didn't come to being because of people thinking happy thoughts.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: EUIX on May 21, 2009, 04:25:12 AM
 The past few chapters have been blowing me away. Anyhow just had a comment since it seems pretty clear Femto was expecting SK and may or may not have needed SK's intervention to usher in the new world I am curious as to say maybe SK also knew that his attack would cause this changeover. Perhaps Femto/Griffith will somehow be "attackable" in the new world/vunerable and SK needed this to happen as much as Femto did. A "just as planned moment" for both parties perhaps?
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: SaiyajinNoOuji on May 21, 2009, 04:37:00 AM
The past few chapters have been blowing me away. Anyhow just had a comment since it seems pretty clear Femto was expecting SK and may or may not have needed SK's intervention to usher in the new world I am curious as to say maybe SK also knew that his attack would cause this changeover. Perhaps Femto/Griffith will somehow be "attackable" in the new world/vunerable and SK needed this to happen as much as Femto did. A "just as planned moment" for both parties perhaps?
They are episodes not chapters (someone else would have come in anyways to corrected you.)

As for SK, I really don't think it was his plan to come in and give Griffith/Femto a helping hand. If he wanted to give them a helping hand I really don't think he would have done the Portal situation all of a sudden and take a swipe at the back.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Death May Die on May 21, 2009, 04:59:00 AM
So I wonder what the new world is going to be like? If its any worst than some of troubled towns of Berserk, times are going hard. I wonder if a big white castle is going to show up, and Griffith instantly becomes a king now that nothing is standing in his way. I mean he goats everything he needs, a princess, soldiers that are human and monster, he gots commoners, and even some of the religious folk. All he needs now a place with a throne, and after this big battle I bet everyone there is willing to fall to their needs for him. Thinking he beat such a creature and that good stuff.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Aazealh on May 21, 2009, 08:11:01 AM
I'm curious if this forces others with power like Flora out of hiding since I THINK it might be easier for them to be reached/attacked because of the recent events.

I wonder how they'll be affected, but the thing is, I'm not sure there are many like her left.

This reminds me of something I'd speculated about Daiba a while ago though: that maybe the power emanating from Ganishka, in which he was caught at almost point-blank range, could enhance his magical powers.

I am curious as to say maybe SK also knew that his attack would cause this changeover.

I don't think he did. He aimed his attack at Femto, not at Ganishka. And it's Femto it would have hit if he hadn't distorted space.

Perhaps Femto/Griffith will somehow be "attackable" in the new world/vunerable and SK needed this to happen as much as Femto did.

It's a possibility (I mentioned it in my last post), however once again I don't think SK really meant things to happen like that.

So I wonder what the new world is going to be like? If its any worst than some of troubled towns of Berserk, times are going hard. I wonder if a big white castle is going to show up, and Griffith instantly becomes a king now that nothing is standing in his way. I mean he goats everything he needs, a princess, soldiers that are human and monster, he gots commoners, and even some of the religious folk. All he needs now a place with a throne, and after this big battle I bet everyone there is willing to fall to their needs for him. Thinking he beat such a creature and that good stuff.

Haha, now that's a hard question. Maybe spiritual creatures will be roaming the world. If trolls, ogres, kelpies and other such creatures are everywhere things are going to be tough for the average villager. And what if specters attacked people at night like they've been attacking Guts & Casca so far? Bring on the curfew. As for a white castle showing up, who knows. Falconia (the new capital) could also be rebuilt by Wyndham's citizens and Griffith's army (humans and apostles together). Or maybe when the light fades, a perfect city will be standing where Wyndham was before.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Griffith on May 21, 2009, 09:00:47 AM
I wonder how they'll be affected, but the thing is, I'm not sure there are many like her left.

What's still interesting to ponder is if it was an isolated incident targeting her individually for her unique status, as it appears, or if it was one example of something greater being systematically carried out, perhaps still; a magic user final solution of sorts.

I don't think he did. He aimed his attack at Femto, not at Ganishka. And it's Femto it would have hit if he hadn't distorted space.

The way Femto was literally manipulating it between his fingers makes you wonder if the blow was even a direct deflection of Skully's original strike, or if Femto captured it for his own, spun it around, and could have played jump rope with it, before slapping it down between Ganishka's eyes. Or, if there's even a difference, but semantics and interpretation aside, whether or not Femto was being more passive or active about it, I doubt it was an accident on Femto's part.

Then again... maybe it wasn't supposed to happen exactly like that. :SK:

I don't think SK really meant things to happen like that.

Yeah, doubtful considering his reaction.

As for a white castle showing up, who knows. Falconia (the new capital) could also be rebuilt by Wyndham's citizens and Griffith's army (humans and apostles together). Or maybe when the light fades, a perfect city will be standing where Wyndham was before.

A perfect city, perhaps even a... http://chocolatecity.ytmnd.com/ :beast:
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Clawed The Bum on May 21, 2009, 09:45:52 AM
I don't know if someone else has said this but!!!!!! Ganishka has died so Daiba doesnt have no one to follow. He's going to be the next person to join Guts crew!

I think that Daiba will attack Femto or maybe SK one last time, but Rakshas will be all like "I will be the one to kill him" and deflect his blow. Also, was Raskhas waiting on top of Ganishka the whole time or was he waiting for Femto? If Femto knew that SK would be there wouldn't he know about him?
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Aazealh on May 21, 2009, 10:06:49 AM
What's still interesting to ponder is if it was an isolated incident targeting her individually for her unique status, as it appears, or if it was one example of something greater being systematically carried out, perhaps still; a magic user final solution of sorts.

Indeed. Since there hasn't been any mention of a widescale witch hunt, I tend to think it was an isolated incident. However I've also been thinking that magic users could possibly be persecuted in the "new world". Maybe some people will also start developing powers (like Sonia?) arbitrarily. Lots of interesting possibilities.

The way Femto was literally manipulating it between his fingers makes you wonder if the blow was even a direct deflection of Skully's original strike, or if Femto captured it for his own, spun it around, and could have played jump rope with it, before slapping it down between Ganishka's eyes. Or, if there's even a difference, but semantics and interpretation aside, whether or not Femto was being more passive or active about it, I doubt it was an accident on Femto's part.

Yeah it's true the panels aren't completely clear on whether Femto simply deformed the slash so it'd hit Ganishka or if he stopped it, then used it for himself. In any case, it shows once more how superior the members of the God Hand are to anything else. They're just on a completely different level.

I don't know if someone else has said this but!!!!!! Ganishka has died so Daiba doesnt have no one to follow. He's going to be the next person to join Guts crew!

As a matter of fact people have said so long ago already. However can you tell me how and why would Daiba join Guts? They didn't get along so well the last time they met, and I doubt things have changed, especially as far as Guts is concerned. He's not a fan of people who associate with apostles. And they aren't exactly next to each other right now anyway.

I think that Daiba will attack Femto or maybe SK one last time, but Rakshas will be all like "I will be the one to kill him" and deflect his blow.

One last time? It's not like he's ever attacked either one of them before. And considering the fact Ganishka just exploded to his face, he might not have the opportunity to do anything at all. SK's most likely already gone, and what could Daiba possibly hope to do to Femto anyway?

Also, was Raskhas waiting on top of Ganishka the whole time or was he waiting for Femto? If Femto knew that SK would be there wouldn't he know about him?

Rakshas was stuck inside Zodd's wing. He came up there along with Griffith in episode 302. And Rakshas is not trying to kill Griffith/Femto. He's serving him.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Marik on May 21, 2009, 01:30:45 PM
But was Femto that turned the Ganishka hell into light just touching him? (the bearer of light)?

Or the SK strike provoked that reaction?
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Rhombaad on May 21, 2009, 02:52:37 PM
But was Femto that turned the Ganishka hell into light just touching him? (the bearer of light)?

Or the SK strike provoked that reaction?

According to what Femto says, it was the strike from Skull Knight's Yobimizu no Tsurugi that "opened the door."
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Marik on May 21, 2009, 02:57:56 PM
According to what Femto says, it was the strike from Skull Knight's Yobimizu no Tsurugi that "opened the door."

Ah..So it has opened the door of the light? After the slice we can still see the vortex inside the demon tower, then suddenly flows the light from the Ganishka tower.

Maybe it's me that is not understanding the process or the Femto words.  :???:
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Walter on May 21, 2009, 02:58:22 PM
But was Femto that turned the Ganishka hell into light just touching him? (the bearer of light)?

Or the SK strike provoked that reaction?
If Femto caused  a transformation within Ganishka, it isn't evidenced by his explanation in 304. We already knew Ganishka had taken on a form from the depths of "hell." It's pretty simple really, but people are making it sound complicated. Allow me to use a metaphor:

Think of Ganishka like a big balloon filled with the Ideal World. The balloon itself is composed of the hellish-looking multi-faced Ganishka tower. When it popped, it let loose everything inside it. Ganishka becomes the bringer of light.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Marik on May 21, 2009, 03:12:29 PM
If Femto caused  a transformation within Ganishka, it isn't evidenced by his explanation in 304. We already knew Ganishka had taken on a form from the depths of "hell." It's pretty simple really, but people are making it sound complicated. Allow me to use a metaphor:

Think of Ganishka like a big balloon filled with the Ideal World. The balloon itself is composed of the hellish-looking multi-faced Ganishka tower. When it popped, it let loose everything inside it. Ganishka becomes the bringer of light.

Ah Ok, so we must always refer to the previous Femto light/darkness speech duality.
Yes, it's something that must be considered.
In few words(if I got the metaphor) the hellish faces are the external faces, while the vortex was the inner skin of the Ganishka faces?
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Aazealh on May 21, 2009, 03:17:55 PM
But was Femto that turned the Ganishka hell into light just touching him? (the bearer of light)?

We don't really know what Femto did to Ganishka. We know that he lulled him (and maybe killed him in a way) but that's about it. Did he "prepare" him somehow so that things would happen like they did in episode 304? Impossible to tell at this point.

Ah..So it has opened the door of the light? After the slice we can still see the vortex inside the demon tower, then suddenly flows the light from the Ganishka tower.

The "light" comes from the Ideal world, which you guys shouldn't be reducing to the Vortex of Souls. There's more to it than that. Anyway, yes, as reading the episode can tell you, it's SK's slash that opened Ganishka like this.

Ganishka becomes the bringer of light.

I don't think Femto's words referred to Ganishka in the previous episode though (I think he meant himself and his alter ego the Falcon of Light). Ganishka even comments on how the light is wrapping him.

In few words(if I got the metaphor) the hellish faces are the external faces, while the vortex was the inner skin of the Ganishka faces?

Ugh. I don't think you have understood.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Marik on May 21, 2009, 03:26:56 PM
The "light" comes from the Ideal world, which you guys shouldn't be reducing to the Vortex of Souls. There's more to it than that. Anyway, yes, as reading the episode can tell you, it's SK's slash that opened Ganishka like this.


Ugh. I don't think you have understood.

Ok so that's it, the full comprehension of the Vortex.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Kalie Ma on May 21, 2009, 03:42:22 PM
Quick everyone, put your HazMat suits on! It might be contagious...
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Xem on May 21, 2009, 08:41:29 PM
Skull Knight has been secretly working for Griffith/Femto!  :troll:

Since I've been waiting for this episode I've become pretty incapacitated by the sheer awesome nature of what's happening. However, it seems everyone in the Berserk universe have collectively shit their pants(along with me)! God only knows how that's going to effect the world. I expect a return to Guts and crew next episode, if only for a few panels to show their reactions.

Oh, and Femto is looking mother-fuckin' bad ass. Whattapimp. I wonder if he's going to revert back to looking like Griffith, if he can I imagine he would... but maybe not. Who knows anymore? Miura has effectively shocked and awed me out of speculating very much. =)
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Aazealh on May 21, 2009, 08:42:58 PM
Oh, and Femto is looking mother-fuckin' bad ass. Whattapimp. I wonder if he's going to revert back to looking like Griffith, if he can I imagine he would... but maybe not.

I'm quite sure he will. Why couldn't he?
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Griffith on May 21, 2009, 09:06:17 PM
Oh, and Femto is looking mother-fuckin' bad ass. Whattapimp.

Of course he is, was there ever any doubt? :griffnotevil:

(http://www.skullknight.net/griffith/skullyslice.jpg)

Everyone hoping for that outcome... well, this picture's as close as you're going to get. :badbone:

I wonder if he's going to revert back to looking like Griffith, if he can I imagine he would... but maybe not. Who knows anymore? Miura has effectively shocked and awed me out of speculating very much. =)

In the same vein, I too have wondered if he'll now publicly reveal himself as Femto. What could be worse than a world willingly serving a demon king? :idea:

I'm quite sure he will. Why couldn't he?

Because in this world, he won't have to! :zodd:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqTqinMIw_8#t=4m48s

:ganishka:
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Dar Klink on May 21, 2009, 10:44:02 PM
You really like Lion King, don't you Griffith?
King Hanafubuku: Remember Guts, you gotta put your past behind you! When the world turns it's back on you, you turn your back on da world.
 :guts:
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Aazealh on May 21, 2009, 11:07:31 PM
Everyone hoping for that outcome... well, this picture's as close as you're going to get. :badbone:

(http://aazealh.net/Divers/Next_time_Femto.jpg) (http://aazealh.net/Divers/Next_time_Femto.wav)

Click for sound (http://aazealh.net/Divers/Next_time_Femto.wav)

Because in this world, he won't have to! :zodd:

Did he ever have to, though? :griffnotevil:
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Griffith on May 22, 2009, 12:02:08 AM
You really like Lion King, don't you Griffith?

I may have watched it recently. :slan:

http://aazealh.net/Divers/Next_time_Femto.jpg (http://aazealh.net/Divers/Next_time_Femto.wav)

Click for sound (http://aazealh.net/Divers/Next_time_Femto.wav)

Hahaha, now that's the way to reply! I love it. :ganishka:

Did he ever have to, though? :griffnotevil:

Yeah, depends on how he needed to do things versus how he wanted to. I just wonder if that won't change now that he's already won the heart's of the people, they already suspect he's more than he seems... and what's done is done now anyway. :zodd:
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Xem on May 22, 2009, 12:17:00 AM
Quote from: Griffith
Yeah, depends on how he needed to do things versus how he wanted to. I just wonder if that won't change now that he's already won the heart's of the people, they already suspect he's more than he seems... and what's done is done now anyway. Zodd

That's more or less what I was thinking. I'm now pretty confident he at least has the ability to revert, should he want to.

All in all, the more I think about it the more it seems pretty obvious that we'll see him back in his human form.. I gotta admit though, it'd be interesting seeing Femto come down and the reactions he'd get.

Human folks: "Griffith?!"

Femto: "Erm, welp... yeah, sort of, but just call me Femto now.... and don't mind the seemingly irremovable helmet."  :troll:

Which gets me thinking, going totally stream of conscious here, but it'd be cool if Femto could somehow retract his helmet, ala Berserk's armor. I wonder what he's got under there? Bald? Flowing black/purple hair? I wonder if Miura will ever address that.

It's also interesting to note that when we see Femto back on Zodd's back, he still hasn't reverted back to Griffith yet... I wonder if anyone can see him. Daiba's a strong possibility. Sonia, maybe?
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Rhombaad on May 22, 2009, 01:07:38 AM
It's also interesting to note that when we see Femto back on Zodd's back, he still hasn't reverted back to Griffith yet... I wonder if anyone can see him. Daiba's a strong possibility. Sonia, maybe?

It looks to me like they're just flying near one another. As for whether or not Miura will reveal what Femto looks like without his helmet, I think we've got as much a chance of seeing that as we do Void's and Ubik's eyes. :void:
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Griffith on May 22, 2009, 01:33:31 AM
I gotta admit though, it'd be interesting seeing Femto come down and the reactions he'd get.

Human folks: "Griffith?!"

Femto: "Erm, welp... yeah, sort of, but just call me Femto now.... and don't mind the seemingly irremovable helmet."  :troll:

I think it'd be even more interesting if he came down like in volume 13, only this time raped the shit out of the pope, "Who's your God NOW!?"

:griffnotevil:

Which gets me thinking, going totally stream of conscious here, but it'd be cool if Femto could somehow retract his helmet, ala Berserk's armor. I wonder what he's got under there? Bald? Flowing black/purple hair? I wonder if Miura will ever address that.

If it could retract, I'd say he'd probably just look like Griffith for the most part, but maybe with some Slan style tendrils for hair. :slan: :ganishka:

Anyway, if we really want to entertain this idea, another possibility rather than the helmet being retractable while Femto, is Griffith doing a partial transformation, if possible, ala Venom/Eddie Brock:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/59/EddieBrock.jpg/221px-EddieBrock.jpg)
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: DetriusXii on May 22, 2009, 02:03:25 AM
The "light" comes from the Ideal world, which you guys shouldn't be reducing to the Vortex of Souls. There's more to it than that.

I'm confused about the ideal world.  Reading EvilGenius' translation for Guts talk with Flora, it seemed that the ideal world contained the soul.  Have we seen any interaction between the ideal world and the physical world like the interaction between the astral/spiritual world and the physical world?  Is there any good speculation on what the interaction between the astral world and the ideal world would look like?
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Walter on May 22, 2009, 02:55:34 AM
I'm confused about the ideal world.  Reading EvilGenius' translation for Guts talk with Flora, it seemed that the ideal world contained the soul.
I wouldn't rely on those translations dude, you'll get no love bringing them up here. And I really don't think EG even translated anything from vol 24. That was The Hawks. Even worse... It'd also help if you were more specific than just "the ideal world contained the soul". That's a little vague... Schierke calls the Ideal world the origin of all existence. But... you're really asking about some heavy-duty stuff that's hard to grasp for those new to the series. So buckle up, scanlation readers!  :ganishka:

Within the Ideal World is the Vortex of Souls -- the giant whirlpool which Puck senses as a massive collection of evil. We see it in volume 3, 11 (within Wyald), 24, and now here, within Ganishka. The conglomeration of bodies that snatches away the souls of apostles can be considered an appendage of that vortex, or even just one of the tendrils within it. If you look carefully in volume 3, you can see that the swirls of the vortex are all composed of tortured souls. If you want to bring in Ep 83 into the mix, the Idea of Evil refers to it as an ocean of feelings, the dark side of humanity's collective consciousness. Later, it wraps portions of the Vortex around Griffith, beginning the process of Femto's creation. So it's got many erm... functions.

But is the Ideal World just the Vortex? I lean towards no, there's more to it. But it's all that we've seen, aside from the Abyss, which is likely at the other end of the Vortex -- the dark place we see at the end of Ep 82 and in vol 24. But, we just don't know.

Quote
Have we seen any interaction between the ideal world and the physical world like the interaction between the astral/spiritual world and the physical world?  Is there any good speculation on what the interaction between the astral world and the ideal world would look like?
I think you have the beginnings of a misunderstanding about the borders between worlds and the ah ... interaction between them. Flora and Schierke describe the world in a metaphor as if it's a massive ocean. In the "shallow" portion (or the surface, you could say), is the physical world and all its inhabitants. As you get "deeper", the surroundings become strange and filled with otherworldly beings. Deeper and deeper is where you come to the massive beings that we know little about, including the Ideal World.

From an objective view, the astral world's layers are divided by gradual shifts. But regular humans would encounter a so-called locked gate in deeper portions as they're limited by their perception. Flora says magicians are able to transcend those boundaries by releasing their spirits. But another good example of how the worlds interact for those who can traverse them is how Guts and Co. stumble into Flora's mansion. Guts and Casca exist at the border between the Astral and Physical. With the band, they went from established places in the physical world, through the deep woods, into somewhere completely different and deeply tied to the astral world. This was only possible because they're branded, of course. They're no magicians :schierke:

But no, to answer your question in a roundabout, the Ideal World doesn't come into contact with the Physical World like this naturally, because they're separated by that massive difference of depth.  This is a completely unique phenomena we're witnessing, and likely the most all-encompassing change the Berserk world has ever gone through, short of its creation.


I touched on this next point during the above post, but I've been thinking about it tonight, and there may be a very easy explanation, or it may be something we haven't considered yet. First, lets take a look at these two images.

(http://skullknight.net/images/ganishka-insides.jpg)
We're all familiar enough with this one by now. The vortex is inside Ganishka.

(http://skullknight.net/images/wyald-insides.jpg)
But the Vortex was also inside Wyald, pulling him down into "hell."

From the "deaths" of the chibi-Ganishkas surrounding him on pages 12-13, it's clear Ganishka has died. But is the apperance of the Vortex in 304 simply part of the natural deconstruction of Ganishka's apostle form? Or was it there, as we have been discussing, because of SK's intervention in slicing the rift between worlds. Either way, something unforeseen happens in 304 with the light emitting FROM Ganishka. I just don't know yet what the implications are, along with the appearance of the Vortex. I honestly think we're going to have to see the effects of this transformation of the world before we can deduce exactly what's happened.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Aazealh on May 22, 2009, 08:15:59 AM
I gotta admit though, it'd be interesting seeing Femto come down and the reactions he'd get.

Human folks: "Griffith?!"

Femto: "Erm, welp... yeah, sort of, but just call me Femto now.... and don't mind the seemingly irremovable helmet."  :troll:

If he came down now, they'd see him "spiritually", so even as Femto there's no telling how he would appear to them. Perhaps what they'd see would be... The Falcon of Light? :griffnotevil:

Which gets me thinking, going totally stream of conscious here, but it'd be cool if Femto could somehow retract his helmet, ala Berserk's armor. I wonder what he's got under there? Bald? Flowing black/purple hair? I wonder if Miura will ever address that.

Hahah what the hell, I think it's cool that the helmet is a part of him myself. Like, when he was born, the helmet's eyes were closed, like a real bird. :void: Why do you even assume there's something under it?

It's also interesting to note that when we see Femto back on Zodd's back, he still hasn't reverted back to Griffith yet... I wonder if anyone can see him. Daiba's a strong possibility.

It's like Rhombaad said, they're just close to one another, but Femto isn't on his back. And Daiba was way below them when Ganishka opened up.

it seemed that the ideal world contained the soul

Yes, it does. The great "ocean" of souls down there forms mankind's collective consciousness. What's confusing about it?

Have we seen any interaction between the ideal world and the physical world like the interaction between the astral/spiritual world and the physical world?  Is there any good speculation on what the interaction between the astral world and the ideal world would look like?

No, and no.

From the "deaths" of the chibi-Ganishkas surrounding him on pages 12-13, it's clear Ganishka has died. But is the apperance of the Vortex in 304 simply part of the natural deconstruction of Ganishka's apostle form? Or was it there, as we have been discussing, because of SK's intervention in slicing the rift between worlds.

I think it was clear enough Ganishka died when he opened up and exploded. And he wasn't really just an apostle anymore at that point, so I don't think we should talk of his giant self as his apostle form. In fact that even casts doubt on the validity of comparing his death to that of a standard apostle. Anyway, what makes you think it's the Vortex of Souls we see inside Ganishka exactly? We don't actually see it. Just the ocean that exists down there. Same with the creatures he'd spawned. Now, there's one possibility: it's to look at the way it's curved inside him, and say that it's the view from the middle of the hole at the Vortex' center. But then we might as well just call it the Abyss, like Ganishka did himself.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Walter on May 22, 2009, 11:52:47 AM
Anyway, what makes you think it's the Vortex of Souls we see inside Ganishka exactly? We don't actually see it. Just the ocean that exists down there.
I recognize there's no crazy conglomeration of bodies down there (yet). But I'd considered the Vortex as being the whirlpool of souls. Is the ocean a distinctly different thing from the vortex?

Quote
Now, there's one possibility: it's to look at the way it's curved inside him, and say that it's the view from the middle of the hole at the Vortex' center. But then we might as well just call it the Abyss, like Ganishka did himself.
Perhaps. But using occam's razor, I'd just say it's curved because what we're viewing is limited to what's inside him.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Marik on May 22, 2009, 11:57:30 AM
I recognize there's no crazy conglomeration of bodies down there (yet). But I'd considered the Vortex as being the whirlpool of souls. Is the ocean a distinctly different thing from the vortex?

It is the exact thing I am wandering.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Aazealh on May 22, 2009, 12:12:26 PM
I recognize there's no crazy conglomeration of bodies down there (yet). But I'd considered the Vortex as being the whirlpool of souls. Is the ocean a distinctly different thing from the vortex?

To the best of our understanding, the Vortex is a part of the ocean. An area in it, if you want. More specifically, the part where all the evil is gathered. The whole ocean isn't just one single giant whirlpool, at least from what we've seen. Yet since the Vortex is the only part that's been focused on so far, we've had very little exposure to the rest, and so we know next to nothing about it.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: jackson_hurley on May 22, 2009, 08:19:26 PM
I wonder, now that Wyndham is destroyed ( well i think so since the size Ganishka had ), if Ganishka stopped moving on top of the tower of rebirth (is that the good name because I always mix it with the tower in Albion) where Griffith was imprisoned a few years ago. I'm just trowing that out. I thought about it when I realized the last episodes have happened at top bottom of the Ganishka "tower". The ideal world could be directly link with the bottom of the hole in some kind of way. Could it be possible?

Edit: if Wyndham is not destroyed then void my idea. hehe
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Aazealh on May 22, 2009, 08:23:52 PM
I wonder, now that Wyndham is destroyed ( well i think so since the size Ganishka had ), if Ganishka stopped moving on top of the tower of rebirth (is that the good name because I always mix it with the tower in Albion) where Griffith was imprisoned a few years ago.

Yeah, Wyndham is pretty much just rubble now. And yes, "Tower of Rebirth" is the correct name. As for whether he was on top of it or not, honestly I don't think so. Remember that he walked over to where Griffith and his troops were, far outside the city. Besides, the tower wasn't mentioned at all and I just can't see what role it would be supposed to have.

The ideal world could be directly link with the bottom of the hole in some kind of way. Could it be possible?

I don't believe it's the case.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Rhombaad on May 22, 2009, 09:14:29 PM
Yeah, Wyndham is pretty much just rubble now. And yes, "Tower of Rebirth" is the correct name. As for whether he was on top of it or not, honestly I don't think so. Remember that he walked over to where Griffith and his troops were, far outside the city. Besides, the tower wasn't mentioned at all and I just can't see what role it would be supposed to have.

Any chance the Necropolis is visible now? Perhaps that will factor into the rebuilding of the capital.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Walter on May 22, 2009, 09:21:54 PM
Any chance the Necropolis is visible now? Perhaps that will factor into the rebuilding of the capital.
If by the necropolis you mean the very bottom of the Tower of Rebirth, I'd say that's doubtful considering how deep it is. Remember, the Hawks were waaaaaay down in it when Casca dropped her torch and it fell out of sight before it hit the bottom. I'd say nothing's been visible down there for a millennium.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Rhombaad on May 22, 2009, 09:26:14 PM
If by the necropolis you mean the very bottom of the Tower of Rebirth, I'd say that's doubtful considering how deep it is. Remember, the Hawks were waaaaaay down in it when Casca dropped her torch and it fell out of sight before it hit the bottom. I'd say nothing's been visible down there for a millennium.

Yep, that's what I meant. I probably shouldn't have capitalized "necropolis," since it's not an official term for the city. I guess I was thinking since Ganishka tore up so much of the streets that it might have caved in deep enough to at least expose part of the city beneath Wyndham, but you're probably right.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Aazealh on May 22, 2009, 10:44:54 PM
Any chance the Necropolis is visible now? Perhaps that will factor into the rebuilding of the capital.

You think Griffith will have his palace built on top of it? :carcus:
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Walter on May 22, 2009, 10:52:34 PM
You think Griffith will have his palace built on top of it? :carcus:
I think the general contractor for that site would probably have to tell Griff his castle would be built on a SINK HOLE, not to mention an ancient burial ground  :badbone:
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Aazealh on May 22, 2009, 10:58:48 PM
I think the general contractor for that site would probably have to tell Griff his castle would be built on a SINK HOLE, not to mention an ancient burial ground  :badbone:

People would hear strange things going on in the castle at night, straight out of a Conan adventure. "Bring the prisoners to the underground chamber and prepare the ritual!"
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Rhombaad on May 22, 2009, 11:33:33 PM
You think Griffith will have his palace built on top of it? :carcus:

Shaddup. :guts:
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: TheBranded1 on May 23, 2009, 01:40:53 AM
I will agree that after the last panel with the brightness pouring from Ganishka, that 305 might shift to Guts and Co. I sure have no evidence, so it's all speculation. Just to have some more speculation going on, I am going to share my thoughts for 305. I say, Guts and the gang might be Little tired from sailing in the high seas ( I wish I knew how much they have been on the high seas.). I assume a while for now. I picture Schierke teaching Farnese some more magic,Isidro getting some lessons from Guts or even Serpico. Casca getting in some trouble. I also, guess Schierke,Guts and Casca feel even more of the changes of what is happening back at Wyndham. I could guess at no end and have the whole episode just on my thoughts. But I think this is enough. I do hope 305 changes to our gang on their trip to Elfhelm.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Clawed The Bum on May 23, 2009, 11:49:09 PM
There are apostles that are land based. There are apostles that are air based. So wouldn't it make sense that there are apostles that are water based? Even though I don't want it to happen, I think that eventually an apostle with fins and gills and such is gonna attack Guts in the upcoming episodes.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: TheBranded1 on May 24, 2009, 12:00:13 AM
There are apostles that are land based. There are apostles that are air based. So wouldn't it make sense that there are apostles that are water based? Even though I don't want it to happen, I think that eventually an apostle with fins and gills and such is gonna attack Guts in the upcoming episodes.

There might be. WE haven't seen one yet as far as I remember. But I think all the apostles or most of them were at Wyndham by Griffith's side.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Rhombaad on May 24, 2009, 01:00:22 AM
Some other beast from the Astral world may end up attacking them before they get to Elfhelm. It doesn't necessarily have to be an apostle. Most apostles are with Griffith and the Band of the Falcon right now anyway IMO.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: jackson_hurley on May 24, 2009, 03:04:08 AM
There was an apostle who was a flying shark in the episode where they attack Ganishka in Vritannis but i don't think that one survived that skirmish.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: gh-zodd on May 24, 2009, 08:13:14 AM
I wonder why we don't see more apostles with RANGE, most are fighting hand to hand.  Ganishka and Irvine are the only long range right? Grunberd had a fire breath attack, I think the range was limited though.

I was thinking, I don't know if sunlight will have the same impact as it did before the whole Ganishka implosion event.  
Will ghost spirits disappear when the sun rises?  Could the effects of the DS be magnified (theory is, more evil present, more to be absorbed)?

Something I'm really looking forward to are the effects of the beast inside Guts and how it will change if any.  Maybe it will help guts.  

I had a pretty weird thought about the berserker armor and the connection between Skull Knight.  When bones break, the armor reinforces yes?, I know there is a lot more to it than that but this is one of the things it does.  Now say for instance, if Guts dies in the armor, could the armor try to keep his spirit from failing/expiring (kind of the same principle as when he is injured physically, but now to the extreme), essentially becoming another skull night?  He would bleed out and his body would be no longer able to function right if any, if he was alive at that point without any blood circulating, removing the armor would surly equal death.  Could this be one of the links between Flora and SK?  She found a way to keep his life force from escaping...  something like that :)

Now this would not be possible with normal humans (i'm speculating here), but given the fact that Guts was already outside the world sort to speak, and we can assume that SK had a strong affinity toward magic (flora?), could that be why SK has no flesh, but is still in tact spiritually?

I look forward to y'all ripping apart my speculation 1 quote at a time  :chomp:
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Aazealh on May 24, 2009, 08:44:55 AM
There are apostles that are land based. There are apostles that are air based. So wouldn't it make sense that there are apostles that are water based? Even though I don't want it to happen, I think that eventually an apostle with fins and gills and such is gonna attack Guts in the upcoming episodes.

Not necessarily. Humans aren't normally meant to live in water. Any "water-based" apostle would probably not dwell in the water all the time. I could see one living near rivers and stuff, but that's about it. Not in the middle of the ocean. In fact, if you pay attention, you'll notice that we've seen a lot of apostles designed from sea animals (whale, starfish, crab, shrimp, etc.) but that were all exclusively land-based.

Like Rhombaad said, if something were to attack Guts and friends on the ship, it'd more likely be one or more spiritual creatures.

I wonder why we don't see more apostles with RANGE, most are fighting hand to hand.  Ganishka and Irvine are the only long range right?

No, we've seen Irvine with his own squad of archers.

(http://www.skullknight.net/avatars/Irvine03.jpg)

Will ghost spirits disappear when the sun rises?

Good question and good possibility. I imagine they will still do, but who knows?

Could the effects of the DS be magnified (theory is, more evil present, more to be absorbed)?

Well it's not really like that. The DS has special properties because Guts killed a whole lot of spiritual creatures with it. So he'd need to kill even more of them if we stick to the same method, and that's just theorical because killing more doesn't mean the DS would necessarily be more harmful. However the changes introduced could make spiritual beings more vulnerable without inevitably having anything to do with the DS itself. In fact, it's possible that normal weapons would now be able to harm spiritual creatures, if the corporeal and spiritual worlds have come so close together as to merge. We'll see.

Something I'm really looking forward to are the effects of the beast inside Guts and how it will change if any.

As far as we know the Beast of Darkness is a psychological construct, not a supernatural parasite or anything like that. So it might not be affected.

Now say for instance, if Guts dies in the armor, could the armor try to keep his spirit from failing/expiring

From what we've been told about it, it's not the case. When you die in it, you die. That's one of the reasons it's so dangerous.

Could this be one of the links between Flora and SK?  She found a way to keep his life force from escaping...  something like that :)

I'm sure Flora helped SK back when he was still wearing the berserker's armor, however keep in mind he's wearing a different armor now (he used to wear the one Guts currently uses, not just one like it but the same one).

could that be why SK has no flesh, but is still in tact spiritually?

It's a possibility. We've actually speculated about this many times in the past. "SK died in the berserker's armor but Flora kept him alive and with the help of elves (maybe the king himself) they encased his spiritual self in another armor." Now the eternal question remains: what happened to his horse? :SK:
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: gh-zodd on May 24, 2009, 09:19:24 PM

No, we've seen Irvine with his own squad of archers.

(http://www.skullknight.net/avatars/Irvine03.jpg)


yes I see that But I'm saying in terms of the powers bestowed to them as apostles.  Any one can use weapons in their non-apostle form, so I was wondering if there are more than those 3 listed that have unique powers given to them after becoming apostles (that can be used at long range).

or do those archers just fight hand to hand after transforming would be my question. 
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: TheBranded1 on May 24, 2009, 09:33:07 PM
yes I see that But I'm saying in terms of the powers bestowed to them as apostles.  Any one can use weapons in their non-apostle form, so I was wondering if there are more than those 3 listed that have unique powers given to them after becoming apostles (that can be used at long range).

or do those archers just fight hand to hand after transforming would be my question. 

I can only think of Locus throwing his lance, but it seems better to have it at hand rather than a throwing weapon. Unless, it was necessary to do so. Other than that I can't think of any other long range apostles.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Walter on May 24, 2009, 11:01:05 PM
if Guts dies in the armor, could the armor try to keep his spirit from failing/expiring (kind of the same principle as when he is injured physically, but now to the extreme), essentially becoming another skull night?
You're forgetting the nature and origin of the armor. Because of its lethal functions, I doubt it's meant to be beneficial to the wearer. It's meant to drive humans into a bloodlust so they'll spill their blood and die in battle, probably as a cruel joke among dwarves. That's why it's considered a "cursed armor." Guts has only survived, and managed to control the lethal functions of the armor through extraordinary circumstances and help from ... supernatural forces.

yes I see that But I'm saying in terms of the powers bestowed to them as apostles.  Any one can use weapons in their non-apostle form, so I was wondering if there are more than those 3 listed that have unique powers given to them after becoming apostles (that can be used at long range).

or do those archers just fight hand to hand after transforming would be my question. 
First, you don't know that Irvine's group DOESN'T have long-range powers in full apostle form. Second, who cares if they do or don't? They're just nameless groupies -- ultimately fodder in the grand scheme. In what imagined scenario would it make a difference whether their long-range abilities were in either form? I fail to see the purpose in spending time discussing it or even asking about it further.


Moving on... 2 pages ago, gh-zodd brought up how locations once hidden by magic could be affected by the merging of worlds. Aaz commented, but no one else capitalized on the possibility. So, I'm bringing it back to the forefront.

Skellig is a legendary place among sailors, but is hidden by magic, similar to how Flora's mansion was hidden to the untrained eye. But with the merging of worlds ... no, with the dawning of the NEW world, it's likely the island's barrier will be null and void. They'll have to set up border defenses like a common port country.  That being the case, I can foresee a number of problems for the long-term plans of Elfhelm being a safe haven for Guts' Band. These guys just can't seem to catch a break for more than a few days... If the island is visible to everyone, what's to stop Magnifico's feeble-sounding plans of conquering it from becoming a reality? Even if his plan stops short, I'm sure others could try with the same aim.

Unlike others, I don't foresee Griffith and his apostle army launching an offensive against Elfhelm in the short-term -- possibly in the distant future, though. Griffith has to settle his kingdom first. And his forces are, after all, now concentrated at the center of the continent. Elfhelm is on an island in the Western Sea.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: SimplyEd on May 25, 2009, 12:28:19 AM
probably as a cruel joke among dwarves.

A very informative read there, but along the way i somehow got hung up on that little line there. You know, when you follow something very intently and then suddenly your own imagination goes haywire. In this case i had a very vivid image of a couple of dwarves getting really plastered and then they just went ahead and forged that piece of armor, singing colorful,obscene songs along the way. And then the next day they have a really rude awakening, wondering over that nice cursed suit of armor.  :troll:

Thinking about it, we don't really know all that much about the true origin of that thing.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Walter on May 25, 2009, 12:35:26 AM
Thinking about it, we don't really know all that much about the true origin of that thing.
Well, we know dwarves crafted it at least 900-1000 years ago. And it doesn't strike me as a very ... uh ... welcoming gift between races. That alone, to me, implies that humans and magical creatures weren't on the best of terms back then.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: SimplyEd on May 25, 2009, 12:49:33 AM
Well, we know dwarves crafted it at least 900-1000 years ago. And it doesn't strike me as a very ... uh ... welcoming gift between races. That alone, to me, implies that humans and magical creatures weren't on the best of terms back then.

Yeah. Let's see how these ancient animosities will play themselves out in Elfhelm and beyond.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: gh-zodd on May 25, 2009, 01:21:58 AM
Unlike others, I don't foresee Griffith and his apostle army launching an offensive against Elfhelm in the short-term -- possibly in the distant future, though. Griffith has to settle his kingdom first. And his forces are, after all, now concentrated at the center of the continent. Elfhelm is on an island in the Western Sea.

I think if He were to try and conquer Elfelm, Griffith would need to be there in person.  Apostles did not do very well vs Ganishka so I think if he were to let apostles try to do it themselves, they would ultimately fail unless they recruited some magic users of their own.  Which goes on to my next question.  Wouldn't this be the perfect opportunity for Griffith and co. to acquire some mages onto their team?
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Walter on May 25, 2009, 01:44:11 AM
Wouldn't this be the perfect opportunity for Griffith and co. to acquire some mages onto their team?
Maybe, but that seems to be going three steps ahead of the game. Why would Griffith need to amass or diversify his forces when there's no opponent?
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: gh-zodd on May 25, 2009, 02:09:03 AM
Maybe, but that seems to be going three steps ahead of the game. Why would Griffith need to amass or diversify his forces when there's no opponent?

preparation for something big would be my guess.  The way I look at it is, he recruits them for their non fighting abilities since at this point there is no clear opponent for Griffith.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: avidwriter on May 25, 2009, 03:20:11 AM
With Flora gone maybe :griff: and his ego/pride will get the better of him and he'll just rule his kingdom without much "amassing of armies". Considering his power and his apostles I doubt he'll need it anyway but only Miura knows.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Oburi on May 25, 2009, 06:54:31 AM
With Flora gone maybe :griff: and his ego/pride will get the better of him and he'll just rule his kingdom without much "amassing of armies". Considering his power and his apostles I doubt he'll need it anyway but only Miura knows.

I agree. I don't think there will be much of Griffith/Femto "recruiting" anymore. More like dominating. I mean the new age has come, the age of darkness. Which makes me wonder if the people of the world will live some false reality where Griffith continues to deceive everyone with his "savior" disguise and manipulates everything to his will that way. Or will the sky turn black and it will litterally be hell on earth.  Do we really know how the prophecy will unfold? It could turn ugly real quick!
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Aazealh on May 25, 2009, 07:39:23 AM
I was wondering if there are more than those 3 listed that have unique powers given to them after becoming apostles (that can be used at long range).

You only listed two apostles actually, but anyway, so far we haven't seen any real "long-range" apostle other than Irvine (I consider Ganishka more of a special case personally). That doesn't mean they don't exist though.

You're forgetting the nature and origin of the armor. Because of its lethal functions, I doubt it's meant to be beneficial to the wearer. It's meant to drive humans into a bloodlust so they'll spill their blood and die in battle, probably as a cruel joke among dwarves.
Well, we know dwarves crafted it at least 900-1000 years ago. And it doesn't strike me as a very ... uh ... welcoming gift between races.

Are we really sure about that? Sounds like a lot of assumptions to me. The armor IS beneficial to its wearer. It's just a double-edged sword. A powerful but very dangerous item. I don't think there's a basis to say it was designed with a malicious intent in mind at this point. Humans certainly don't need any magical armor to spill their blood and die in battle.

with the dawning of the NEW world, it's likely the island's barrier will be null and void. They'll have to set up border defenses like a common port country. [...] Unlike others, I don't foresee Griffith and his apostle army launching an offensive against Elfhelm in the short-term -- possibly in the distant future, though. Griffith has to settle his kingdom first. And his forces are, after all, now concentrated at the center of the continent. Elfhelm is on an island in the Western Sea.

That's a good point. Even if it doesn't break right away, the barrier protecting Elfhelm could weaken over time, eventually giving way. And after all, if Griffith isn't encountering any resistance elsewhere, he might just send shiploads of apostles over there, even if that means lots of losses for him.

Wouldn't this be the perfect opportunity for Griffith and co. to acquire some mages onto their team?

But what mages would they acquire? It's not exactly the most common occupation around. They'd probably need to be trained from scratch. Besides Griffith hasn't been too fond of magic users until now. If it were to happen I think there'd be a trick somewhere.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Marik on May 25, 2009, 10:37:45 AM
Unlike others, I don't foresee Griffith and his apostle army launching an offensive against Elfhelm in the short-term -- possibly in the distant future, though. Griffith has to settle his kingdom first. And his forces are, after all, now concentrated at the center of the continent. Elfhelm is on an island in the Western Sea.

Yes I agree with this point.

Are we really sure about that? Sounds like a lot of assumptions to me. The armor IS beneficial to its wearer. It's just a double-edged sword. A powerful but very dangerous item. I don't think there's a basis to say it was designed with a malicious intent in mind at this point. Humans certainly don't need any magical armor to spill their blood and die in battle.

Yeah, we cannot be sure about the intentions of the dwarfs creating that suit.
But I have a question about the Berserker armor:

If we consider a classic picture of a dwarf, and assuming that their bodies are smaller than the one of an ordinary man(than I wouldn't necessarely say more weak, though), than we may suppose that the suit was created just for the former human wearer?




Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Aazealh on May 25, 2009, 11:28:39 AM
If we consider a classic picture of a dwarf, and assuming that their bodies are smaller than the one of an ordinary man(than I wouldn't necessarely say more weak, though), than we may suppose that the suit was created just for the former human wearer?

Well there's no telling what dwarves will look like in Berserk. Don't expect them to be carbon-copies of Tolkien's. Personally, I have a feeling they'll be closer to the mythological representations commonly found in folklore. There's actually a panel showing the silhouettes of a group of elves different from piskies (elves like Puck) when Godot's cave is mentioned by SK that could be close to how Miura will depict dwarves in the future, but unfortunately I don't have it right now (I'll edit this post with it later on).

In any case, considering the armor's general size and looks but also its purpose and the way in which it functions, it does seem likely that it was created to be used by humans. Or do you mean that they only created one such armor? If so, that's also possible.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Marik on May 25, 2009, 12:00:23 PM
Well there's no telling what dwarves will look like in Berserk. Don't expect them to be carbon-copies of Tolkien's. Personally, I have a feeling they'll be closer to the mythological representations commonly found in folklore. There's actually a panel showing the silhouettes of a group of elves different from piskies (elves like Puck) when Godot's cave is mentioned by SK that could be close to how Miura will depict dwarves in the future, but unfortunately I don't have it right now (I'll edit this post with it later on).

Yes I agree with you. In fact as you say it's more possible that Miura will depict them closer to the mythological representations of folklore.
And yes I know the pic you mean:

(http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/5787/dwarfi.jpg)

I think too that it's quite possible that miura will draw them this way.

In any case, considering the armor's general size and looks but also its purpose and the way in which it functions, it does seem likely that it was created to be used by humans. Or do you mean that they only created one such armor? If so, that's also possible.

Yes, I meant that they could have created just one suit.(Maybe on a special request of a magician).
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Aazealh on May 25, 2009, 12:12:38 PM
And yes I know the pic you mean

Yeah, that's the one, thanks.

Yes, I meant that they could have created just one suit.(Maybe on a special request of a magician).

It's a possibility.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: TheBranded1 on May 25, 2009, 04:25:14 PM
Talking about the berserker armor I have some speculations. I was wondering if this armor is the last one Guts will wear to the end of the manga? Will there be some elf or dwarf blacksmith at Elfhelm that can make one that does not hurts him? Guts might not be fighting for now, it's my guess. Unless a sudden attack by some sea creature, or one from the new merging worlds. When they arrive at Elfhelm we don't know what kind of welcome they will receive either. So being confirmed in the letter we are 65%-70% you guys think there a chance to see a new armor for Guts? I dont know how far fetched it is, but let me hear your take on it.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Oburi on May 25, 2009, 04:35:10 PM
I think the Berserker armour that Guts now wears is one of kind. Skullknight once wore it and then Flora kept it for many years. Guts will probably have that armour for the rest of the series, IMO.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Aazealh on May 25, 2009, 04:57:58 PM
some elf or dwarf blacksmith

Dwarves are elves.

So being confirmed in the letter we are 65%-70%

It was 60-70% actually, and please remember it was only a rough estimate that may change before we get there.

As for creating another armor that has all the advantages and none of the inconvenients of the current one, I don't see it happening.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Marik on May 25, 2009, 05:24:47 PM
So being confirmed in the letter we are 65%-70% you guys think there a chance to see a new armor for Guts? I dont know how far fetched it is, but let me hear your take on it.

I would just consider the use of the Berserker armour: as we know it's more than a simply defence suit, it has been necessary for the whole party survival. So starting from this point, IMO i don't think(unless for some reason of Guts' safety he decide to trow it away) that there will be another armor. But everything is possible.

As for creating another armor that has all the advantages and none of the inconvenients of the current one, I don't see it happening.

Yep, I think as Aaz about it. Thus an armor that would have just the advantages of the current one(and would express the same power) I think that would not use the strenght of a human body, because otherwise we have the problems that we know. it's  the limit of being human, quoting the Count. Then everything could happen, it's just my thought.


Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Apaar on May 25, 2009, 08:01:30 PM
What a truly awe-inspiring episode! Really, the whole climax of this chapter has been leaving me breathless episode after episode. But during this latest one it really struck me that the time of change has finally come. I was actually rendered speechless by the vastness of it all.

But after the dust had settled a bit and the grandness of it all had had some time to really sink in, this episode really got me thinking. It seems like this merging of the worlds is a sort of one of a kind event that has never happened before (or at least hasn't happened within any sort of recorded history). Seemingly this is the/a goal that the Idea of Evil has been working towards for Millennia. Now, if this event is indeed a supremely important part of the Idea's plan, then why has it taken so long to succeed?

Apparently Femto was the first of the incarnated God Hand to truely achieve this goal (or at least first one within history). Then what had the incarnated God Hand from previous millennia been up to when it was their time to shine? Did they all fail in this task? Or did all of them have a different task during their time, and now this whole merging-concept is a completely unprecedented plan that Femto was the first one assigned to put into effect? Just for the sake of arguing, I'm now going to assume that all of them had basically the same grand goal as Femto did - merge the worlds thus initiating a dark age. In this case the past incarnations would have failed.

Now this, in turn, gives me hope of the possibility that there might have always before been some unknown force preventing the previous God Hand incarnates from succeeding in their ultimate task, by either preventing the merge of reverting it. And if such a force has existed before, it could very well exist also this time around in one form or another. :guts:
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Aazealh on May 25, 2009, 08:22:36 PM
It seems like this merging of the worlds is a sort of one of a kind event that has never happened before (or at least hasn't happened within any sort of recorded history). Seemingly this is the/a goal that the Idea of Evil has been working towards for Millennia. Now, if this event is indeed a supremely important part of the Idea's plan, then why has it taken so long to succeed?

Yes, it's a key event. And it's taken so long because of all the variables needed for it to happen. However, at this point nothing allows us to say it has or hasn't happened before. We just don't know enough about the past. Hell, maybe it's a cycle that repeats itself through history.

Then what had the incarnated God Hand from previous millennia been up to when it was their time to shine? Did they all fail in this task?

Well you're assuming there have been many different God Hands in the past, each with one of its members incarnated with the same goal than Femto. That's assuming a lot. SK's comment in volume 18, saying it's a "once in a millennium" event, doesn't even prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that it has successfully happened before.

Short answer: we don't know. :void:

Now this, in turn, gives me hope of the possibility that there might have always before been some unknown force preventing the previous God Hand incarnates from succeeding in their ultimate task, by either preventing the merge of reverting it. And if such a force has existed before, it could very well exist also this time around in one form or another. :guts:

Possible. However, SK's long-lasting feud with the God Hand somehow doesn't seem to match this hypothesis to me. Isn't he the force that has opposed the God Hand for a thousand years?
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Apaar on May 25, 2009, 08:59:04 PM
Hell, maybe it's a cycle that repeats itself through history.

I have been thinking about that possibility too. Somehow I still hope that this is the one and only time the merging has happened. I just feel it would  in a way diminish the epicness of the whole event, if it was in the end revealed to be just merging number X. Of course, if it has indeed happened before, then for some reason at some point the situation has been reverted. After all, the world has been in its separate state for quite some time now at least.

Well you're assuming there have been many different God Hands in the past, each with one of its members incarnated with the same goal than Femto. That's assuming a lot. SK's comment in volume 18, saying it's a "once in a millennium" event, doesn't even prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that it has successfully happened before.

Thanks for putting all of that back into perspective for me. I had clearly made the mistake of placing too much meaning into SK's words without any real evidence. But I guess there still exists the possibility that SK truly implied that Femto really isn't the first God Hand incarnate, but as you said, there's currently no way to know for sure. Bummer.  :serpico:

Possible. However, SK's long-lasting feud with the God Hand somehow doesn't seem to match this hypothesis to me. Isn't he the force that has opposed the God Hand for a thousand years?

Yes. However, if we follow along the hypothesis that there have existed multiple "sets" of God Hand before this current one, then there of course would be no way of knowing what kind of force would have been required in order thwart them in the past. Even if SK has been the most resilient opposer yet, it doesn't currently seem to be within his power to destroy the God Hand by himself. Even a millennium of experience and a beherit sword may still not be enough.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Aazealh on May 25, 2009, 09:30:47 PM
Of course, if it has indeed happened before, then for some reason at some point the situation has been reverted. After all, the world has been in its separate state for quite some time now at least.

Well you know how farmland regularly needs to lie fallow? Could be the same thing.

I guess there still exists the possibility that SK truly implied that Femto really isn't the first God Hand incarnate, but as you said, there's currently no way to know for sure. Bummer.  :serpico:

Of course, it's definitely a strong possibility.

Anyway, if we want to keep speculating, we can reflect on what differs between now and then from the little we know. One tentative answer is that organized religion replaced magic users (a religion the symbolism of which perfectly fits Griffith), and that this was apparently combined at some point with a rarefaction of encounters between humans and spiritual creatures. With that in mind, maybe the stronger presence of magic in the world played a role in preventing certain events from happening. But at the same time, a corporeal world filled with magic and spirits evokes worlds closer together than one in which few people believe in magic and where seeing an elf is a rare occurrence. The bottom line is that it's a complicated question no matter how you look at it, and not one we can provide a definitive answer to with our current knowledge.

Yes. However, if we follow along the hypothesis that there have existed multiple "sets" of God Hand before this current one, then there of course would be no way of knowing what kind of force would have been required in order thwart them in the past. Even if SK has been the most resilient opposer yet, it doesn't currently seem to be within his power to destroy the God Hand by himself. Even a millennium of experience and a beherit sword may still not be enough.

But being that old, he would know about the previous God Hand, and might have even witnessed its fall. Wouldn't he also know about this mysterious force then? Wouldn't we have been introduced to it at least in name by now (through Flora, for example)? To me it just sounds like a bit of a deus ex machina. Something that has never been mentioned before, that doesn't act until it's too late and then fixes things up against all odds. Seems too convenient.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Marik on May 25, 2009, 10:22:59 PM
Multiple God Hand theory is always mesmerizing.
But I wonder why there would be the need to create several God Hand, if Idea can manipulate history and the men.

Moreover it seems that Idea created Griffith in an specific historical period that would have been appropriate for him. And if the final purpose of God seems to bring the light to men through his last incarnate member why this perfection have to disappear?

I mean, if Idea can decide when a God Hand have to born(so in specific historical context) why there would be multiple divine power on earth if everything could be controlled and led to a perfect age?
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Oburi on May 25, 2009, 11:53:37 PM
Multiple God Hand theory is always mesmerizing.
But I wonder why there would be the need to create several God Hand, if Idea can manipulate history and the men.

Maybe the current God Hand is only the second generation of Godhand members, and they are only here because the first generation God Hand perished when they failed to bring the age of darkness the first time around. I have a feeling that this is  :idea:'s second attempt to bring the about an age of darkness after :SK: stopped it from happening the fist time.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Walter on May 26, 2009, 12:09:32 AM
I have a feeling that this is  :idea:'s second attempt to bring the about an age of darkness after :SK: stopped it from happening the fist time.
If that was the case, you'd think the GH would care more about SK intervening in events like the eclipse. But no, they just kind of sat around and thought it was amusing.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: TheBranded1 on May 26, 2009, 12:10:55 AM
Maybe the current God Hand is only the second generation of Godhand members, and they are only here because the first generation God Hand perished when they failed to bring the age of darkness the first time around. I have a feeling that this is  :idea:'s second attempt to bring the about an age of darkness after :SK: stopped it from happening the fist time.

I don't think that's the case. If skully stopped it the first time, so he has to stop it this time as well, continuing in a cycle. I just don't see it happening that way. Since the Idea of Evil was created by man's dark emotions, I would assume that there would have to have been many of those dark emotions through a long period of time (let's say some 2000 years) fro the IoE to fully manifest itself and then created all that has been known to us (Apostles,Godhand,events in history). I have no evidence of this, so I am just speculating that the Godhand have been only been these members we know of (Ubik,Conrad,Slan,Void, and Femto).
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Oburi on May 26, 2009, 12:16:11 AM
I don't think that's the case. If skully stopped it the first time, so he has to stop it this time as well, continuing in a cycle. I just don't see it happening that way.

If I understand you correctly, I would say that Guts is taking up Skullknights old spot. And not just SK, obviously Flora had helped and now Schierke is helping Guts.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: TheBranded1 on May 26, 2009, 12:33:11 AM
If I understand you correctly, I would say that Guts is taking up Skullknights old spot. And not just SK, obviously Flora had helped and now Schierke is helping Guts.

No, what I meant is if skully stopped them the first time as you suggest, then he will try to do it as many times as they keep coming back. I don't think Guts is taking skull knights old spot by wearing the berserker armor, and if skully by some means perishes he'll have  Guts inherit his armor if that's what you imply. I just see them fighting towards the same enemy but for different reasons.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Apaar on May 26, 2009, 05:41:09 AM
But being that old, he would know about the previous God Hand, and might have even witnessed its fall. Wouldn't he also know about this mysterious force then? Wouldn't we have been introduced to it at least in name by now (through Flora, for example)? To me it just sounds like a bit of a deus ex machina. Something that has never been mentioned before, that doesn't act until it's too late and then fixes things up against all odds. Seems too convenient.

Good point. If indeed a new God Hand is incarnated once every 1000 years, then it would make sense for SK to have witnessed the event and also perhaps to have been a part of preventing their plans/destroying them the last time. As you said, it's likely we'd probably be a bit more informed about it at this point if that had indeed been the case. But who knows...

I do agree with you on that it might indeed feel too artificial/tacked on for some currently unknown ancient powerful "good" force to just suddenly awaken and save the day. Now I don't think it would feel so artificial if such force would be revealed to have existed in the past. The lack of such stabilizing force (perhaps due to the Idea's previous endeavours) could be the factor that has made the merging of the worlds possible in the first place. If that is the case, then in my opinion, it would make our heroes' task even more daunting since this time they wouldn't be getting any help from a higher power and for the first time the fate of the world would truly be in the hands of mortals. :isidro:
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Aazealh on May 26, 2009, 12:07:39 PM
And if the final purpose of God seems to bring the light to men through his last incarnate member why this perfection have to disappear?

Do you really believe the Idea of Evil's goal is to bring light to mankind and create a perfect world for humanity?

I would assume that there would have to have been many of those dark emotions through a long period of time (let's say some 2000 years) fro the IoE to fully manifest itself and then created all that has been known to us (Apostles,Godhand,events in history).

I would say it took longer than that myself. For all we know it might have taken hundreds of thousands of years for the Idea of Evil just to become sentient. I know I've always pictured it as a very slow process myself.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Marik on May 26, 2009, 01:35:51 PM
Do you really believe the Idea of Evil's goal is to bring light to mankind and create a perfect world for humanity?

Nope. Of course Idea of Evil  said to Griffith that no matter how he will act towards men, it will prove that he is suitable whether he will bring to them pain or salvation. So It seems it's all in Griffith hand.
We know that Idea provide the reasons for everything gruesome bound to human life.
Moreover  there's the Apocalypse depicting the Hawk of Darkness, bringer of the Dark Age.

So it was just a deceptive point of view (due to  Light and Darkness duality) to express the fact that if God foresees everything, and has the power to led anything where he want, then why there would be the need of a necessarily failure from previous God Hand, if he has all the time to wait for proper age and breed?(in fact I remember the words of SK in Albion when he says that his sword may have purposely avoid a critical hit on the beherit apostle..So maybe there's the Idea's will..Or we can just consider this episode)

So if I think of Idea creating several God Hand, it suggest me he always attempts by trial and errors.

Then of course it's just my point of view, it could be totally wrong as well.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Walter on May 26, 2009, 01:45:57 PM
Though I've posted about it at length over the past 8 years here on SKnet, my ultimate conclusion about the 1000-years-ago incident is that it's still a puzzle that we can't, and for the sake of our sanity, shouldn't even attempt to solve.

There are clearly variables still yet to be revealed -- pieces of the puzzle missing from the big picture -- to make complete sense of it. We can try to jam everything we know together in a big pile and form it and reform it with words, but in the end it's always going to be a half-understood mess and won't accurately reflect  the TRUE explanation Miura will eventually grant us.

I think it's more beneficial for discussion to review what we know and dwell more on what we DON'T know than trying to build a speculative house of cards on exactly what happened. Because it's those missing pieces that are going to help understand everything.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Shadax on May 27, 2009, 04:51:02 PM
I don't get where the idea of multiple generations of Godhands come from.. It just doesn't seem to make sense. or fit. It would really cheapen the godhand as beings or the Idea as an ultimate puppetmaster.

This seems the one plan Idea has been cultivating and it doesn't really seem like it has failed before or some such, but has been ongoing since ages. It's plans just are extremely long term.


As for the next episode: I really hope they get back to Guts and co very soon. I might be a minority, but I didn't find the stuff with Griff and Ganishka all that exciting.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Aazealh on May 27, 2009, 04:59:20 PM
I don't get where the idea of multiple generations of Godhands come from.. It just doesn't seem to make sense. or fit. It would really cheapen the godhand as beings or the Idea as an ultimate puppetmaster.

It comes from the fact the capital of Gaiseric's empire is said to have been destroyed 1000 years ago, before the oldest member of the God Hand could have been born according to the 216 years gap between Occultation ceremonies. Yet there are branded skeletons at the bottom of the hole under the Tower of Rebirth, and it's made pretty clear by the narration that they're from that era.

I might be a minority, but I didn't find the stuff with Griff and Ganishka all that exciting.

I don't know what to tell you... It's just too bad you didn't enjoy it considering how big of an event it is.

Anyway, on a different topic, I don't remember anyone pointing out that on pages 12 and 13, we can see the ideal world not just through Ganishka's spawns but also through dead apostles. I'm just bringing it up because we had a discussion about the Vortex of Souls showing up when apostles die recently.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Jaze1618 on May 27, 2009, 08:48:35 PM

Anyway, on a different topic, I don't remember anyone pointing out that on pages 12 and 13, we can see the ideal world not just through Ganishka's spawns but also through dead apostles. I'm just bringing it up because we had a discussion about the Vortex of Souls showing up when apostles die recently.

Thanks for bringing this up. Everytime I reread the episode I tell myself I'm going to make a post about it. I wondered what it meant to have the praying-mantis-esque apostle disentegrating like the rest of the mini-shkas, like Ganishka himself appears to be disentegtating.

Is this the census on what we observed on those pages?
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Aazealh on May 27, 2009, 08:58:14 PM
I wondered what it meant to have the praying-mantis-esque apostle disentegrating like the rest of the mini-shkas, like Ganishka himself appears to be disentegtating.

There's more than one apostle whose corpse is shown reacting too. As for what it means, well simply said they're all strongly linked to the deeper layers of the astral world, so their carcasses reacted to the "door" that opened in Ganishka.

Is this the census on what we observed on those pages?

The census?
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Griffith on May 27, 2009, 09:36:59 PM
Anyway, on a different topic, I don't remember anyone pointing out that on pages 12 and 13, we can see the ideal world not just through Ganishka's spawns but also through dead apostles. I'm just bringing it up because we had a discussion about the Vortex of Souls showing up when apostles die recently.

Yeah, it's interesting because in that discussion we touched on the possible ramifications of a number of Apostles dying in close proximity, kind of... like this! Though whatever would have happened "naturally" is a moot point now given what's happening with Ganishka at the moment...

There's more than one apostle whose corpse is shown reacting too. As for what it means, well simply said they're all strongly linked to the deeper layers of the astral world, so their carcasses reacted to the "door" that opened in Ganishka.

Speaking of which, it should be noted that apparently not all the Apostle corpses disappeared ala Wyald's in the meantime.

The census?

I think he means the consensus. As for that consensus, I guess we'll find out. My feeling is that while we can't say what's happening to Ganishka is the same thing happening to them, they're certainly resonating with it.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Aazealh on May 28, 2009, 08:28:19 AM
Though whatever would have happened "naturally" is a moot point now given what's happening with Ganishka at the moment...

Yeah it's clearly on a whole different scale. On a side note, it might be comforting to Ganishka fans that at least the final battle has taken a toll on Griffith's army.

Speaking of which, it should be noted that apparently not all the Apostle corpses disappeared ala Wyald's in the meantime.

Well it's always the same thing: we only saw some of them briefly and we don't know how long it would have taken for it to happen, assuming it would have.

My feeling is that while we can't say what's happening to Ganishka is the same thing happening to them, they're certainly resonating with it.

Yeah, that's it.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: theblackswordman on May 28, 2009, 07:18:37 PM
Wow, we finally got to see Femto! I really liked this episode. I hope thats the end of Ganishka. Please don't kill me, but I think I've had enough of him. A great character indeed, but he just wount die right! And why was he so scared of Griffith, when he himself said that his sword couldn't reach him?
I think its really annoying when Griffith is portraited as a saint, while Guts turning into his darkside, a monster that only thinks revenge.

I think Ganishka is the strongest apostle by far. I really enjoyed Zodd joining forces with Guts to fight Ganishka. Reminds me of Straw hats fight with Enel.
One thing I didnt quite understand, was Femto in his astral form? GOD! I'm waiting for the next episode like a child! (I am a child when it comes to waiting)

The artwork is getting exeptional with each episode! Can't wait to see the next arc. I'm also worried that the event it might effect Guts and the crew. Who knows, maybe Guts will see a glimpse of Femto.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Aazealh on May 28, 2009, 07:32:18 PM
And why was he so scared of Griffith, when he himself said that his sword couldn't reach him?

Well Griffith didn't use his sword against him, did he? And it's more complicated than Ganishka just being scared. He was crying with gratitude when he died.

was Femto in his astral form?

From what we've seen, it seems that Griffith physically transformed into Femto.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: theblackswordman on May 28, 2009, 07:51:56 PM
Well Griffith didn't use his sword against him, did he? And it's more complicated than Ganishka just being scared. He was crying with gratitude when he died.

Maybe scared isn't the right word to describe how he felt. But he couldn't do anything to Griffith, Ganishka was more like ice melting. I'm talking about their first encounter btw.


From what we've seen, it seems that Griffith physically transformed into Femto.

I hope we see more of his powers and abilities. All we've seen is his "defensive" counter attacks, and how good he was raping Casca XD.
But seriously, I hope we see a real fight with Femto. I don't care wether it's against Skullknight or Guts in his armor.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Aazealh on May 28, 2009, 08:02:36 PM
Maybe scared isn't the right word to describe how he felt. But he couldn't do anything to Griffith, Ganishka was more like ice melting. I'm talking about their first encounter btw.

So basically you don't understand why things happened the way they did? I ask because I think it's made pretty clear in the concerned episodes (282 & 283). And Ganishka actually tried to attack Griffith but failed.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Marik on May 28, 2009, 08:08:51 PM
But seriously, I hope we see a real fight with Femto. I don't care wether it's against Skullknight or Guts in his armor.

Assuming that Femto needs to fight. I think that he is quite absolute, but everything may happen.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Walter on May 28, 2009, 08:25:22 PM
I hope we see more of his powers and abilities. All we've seen is his "defensive" counter attacks, and how good he was raping Casca XD.
But seriously ...
Really dude, that's some kind of fucking joke to you? You make me sick.

And we've seen him do more than 'defensive counter attacks'. He smashed apostles into a ball at the eclipse in an attempt to kill SK and probably summoned the gale in ep 283 that disarmed Ganishka. I think you're just forgetting all these displays of power, and won't be satisfied until Femto is wielding some kind of demon sword and firing fireballs out of his eyes.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: theblackswordman on May 28, 2009, 08:26:47 PM
So basically you don't understand why things happened the way they did? I ask because I think it's made pretty clear in the concerned episodes (282 & 283). And Ganishka actually tried to attack Griffith but failed.

No, not why Ganishka felt the way he did Grifith presence. If I remember correctly, Ganishka was sort of shaking, which only gives me the understanding that he actually was scared. But Ganishka was also sort of "happy" or whatever (I don't know what word to use) to see Griffith. He was like a kid seeing a God or something like that. At least he was able to stand up and transform. He was going to attack Griffith, but didn't do anything at all, because he just couldn't, if I remember correctly. I'm not sure if Griffith caused the wind, or if he knew it was Ganishka's weakpoint, but then again, maybe it was obvious...

Really dude, that's some kind of fucking joke to you? You make me sick.

No, I was just making fun of him and his rape scene. The rape scene was like a whole episode!
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Aazealh on May 28, 2009, 08:31:53 PM
No, not why Ganishka felt the way he did Grifith presence.

Because Ganishka was an apostle, and that Griffith is a member of the God Hand. I advise you to re-read those episodes for the details.

He was going to attack Griffith, but didn't do anything at all, because he just couldn't, if I remember correctly. I'm not sure if Griffith caused the wind, or if he knew it was Ganishka's weakpoint, but then again, maybe it was obvious...

Ganishka wasn't able to attack because of the wind. And yes, the wind was most likely caused by Griffith.

No, I was just making fun of him and his rape scene. The rape scene was like a whole episode!

Yeah because it's fucking hilarious, right? :schierke:
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: theblackswordman on May 28, 2009, 08:42:53 PM
Because Ganishka was an apostle, and that Griffith is a member of the God Hand. I advise you to re-read those episodes for the details.

I already re-reading the whole thing from first book. I'm sure I've missed a lot.
Having 1001 mangas and animes that needs to be watched parallell with reading Berserk, I'm sure it will take more than a year.

Yeah because it's fucking hilarious, right? :schierke:

Again, don't kill me, but I was sick of it all. Not that I'm not adult enough to accept a rape scene, but I think it was a bit exaggerated. I'm not a big fan of hentai, you know, not that I am categorising it as a one, but I think it's enough for a rape scene to be a lesser scene. I mean, man, it wasn't long before that, that Casca was about to be raped by Wyald. But, that is not an objective opinion offcourse.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Aazealh on May 28, 2009, 08:46:47 PM
I already re-reading the whole thing from first book. I'm sure I've missed a lot.

Well if you don't understand one specific part you can re-read that part alone.

Again, don't kill me, but I was sick of it all. Not that I'm not adult enough to accept a rape scene, but I think it was a bit exaggerated. I'm not a big fan of hentai, you know, not that I am categorising it as a one, but I think it's enough for a rape scene to be a lesser scene. I mean, man, it wasn't long before that, that Casca was about to be raped by Wyald. But, that is not an objective opinion offcourse.

Being sick of it is the point. You're supposed to be dismayed, revolted at it. That's what makes it emotionally powerful. Guts is powerless to stop it, and so is the reader. That's all the more reason not to find it "funny".

And the fact Wyald's rape attempt failed not long before only reinforces the shock of Femto actually raping her. It's no coincidence.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: theblackswordman on May 28, 2009, 09:04:05 PM
Being sick of it is the point. You're supposed to be dismayed, revolted at it. That's what makes it emotionally powerful. Guts is powerless to stop it, and so is the reader. That's all the more reason not to find it "funny".

I can say I felt exactly like everyone did (btw I watched the anime before reading the manga). I was not only sick of it, but also more like, "Oh, common". I didn't say I laughed my ass off reading that part, but was more like "dissing" the looong rapescene. Long sex or rape scene ain't exactly my favorite thing to read, especially when I can understand that it is a rape scene by just reading a few pages. Call me child or incompetent of reading adult material or whatever. I'm just saying it was too many pages (imo). Just to make it clear, even if my opinion sucks, it's not a mutual opinion.

I have indeed missed a lot, like the scene where the Beherit sticks that priest and somehow gives him apostles attributes, thats just one of many things. I will re-read those episodes in just a second.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Aazealh on May 28, 2009, 09:08:44 PM
Long sex or rape scene ain't exactly my favorite thing to read

There's a big difference between a sex scene and a rape scene. Please don't make an amalgam of the two. Anyway, again, the reader not being at ease is the point. It's not supposed to be a good moment.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Death May Die on May 28, 2009, 09:54:24 PM
That one scene, which included the rape of Casca was perhaps the strongest moment in the entire series. A true turning point. It wasn't sex for the SAKE of sex, it was the worst nightmare of the character come true, done by the person she had dedicated her life to, the very person that asked her "if you have anything to protect, then pick up the sword." I watched a lot of stuff in my day, all with great stories and characters, but that episode alone made Berserk something more than it was up till that point, I guess it made Berserk personal to everyone, at least to me. Something few things are able to break through and do.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: CCS on May 29, 2009, 03:17:27 AM
Wassup, yall, I'm new.
Anyway I really dug this episode, although it seems Femto/Griffith has the ability to pretty much be in "god mode", so that he can even warp space to get out of a tight spot. It really sucks for Skull Knight how he walked right into Femto's trap. So can Femto see the future if he was waiting for SK to show up?
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Rhombaad on May 29, 2009, 04:48:46 AM
So can Femto see the future if he was waiting for SK to show up?

Don't think of it as seeing the future, but as Femto knowing Skull Knight would show up at the "junction of times" like he has in the past.

It was causality at work once again. :idea:
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Clawed The Bum on May 29, 2009, 05:47:09 AM
So Femto assumed that SK would show up?
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: CowTip on May 29, 2009, 05:50:34 AM
The thing that confuses me the most about the causality argument is that I thought both Guts and Skull Knight existed outside of causality, so why is it so easy for Femto to realize he'd have been there in the first place? Wasn't his appearance unexpected during the eclipse? Am I just remembering things wrong or has Skully just become too predictable in general? I don't see how Skull Knight can ever hope to accomplish anything if he's always working within causality.

I apologize if this has been explained or brought up recently (even in this thread though I've read/skimmed through most of it, d'oh!), I'm just a little confused about it like I pointed out.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Aazealh on May 29, 2009, 06:57:34 AM
Wassup, yall, I'm new.

Hey there, welcome. :SK:

So can Femto see the future if he was waiting for SK to show up?

No, like Rhombaad said (and like Femto said himself), he was merely expecting him to show up because he never misses an opportunity to strike at the God Hand. I don't think we even need to bring causality into the equation when it comes to that. And even if Femto could see the future, those events are supposed to be times when the unexpected can happen, defying all odds.

So Femto assumed that SK would show up?

He was expecting him to show up, yes.

I thought both Guts and Skull Knight existed outside of causality

It's not the case. That's a really big and unfortunately common misconception. One that usually stems from bad translations. You'll find tons of posts about this in older threads, but if you want to quickly refresh your memory I recommend you to re-read SK's talk to Guts at the end of volume 18.

Am I just remembering things wrong or has Skully just become too predictable in general? I don't see how Skull Knight can ever hope to accomplish anything if he's always working within causality.

Since he systematically attacks the God Hand whenever an occasion presents itself, yes, I guess you could say it's become predictable. As for accomplishing something, well he hasn't accomplished too much so far, has he?
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: slan69 on May 30, 2009, 10:03:12 AM
There's a big difference between a sex scene and a rape scene. Please don't make an amalgam of the two. Anyway, again, the reader not being at ease is the point. It's not supposed to be a good moment.


Ahhh the rape scene :ganishka: what i thought was funny was when Slan was actually tearing up a bit because she was watching something she thought was beautiful and also what she said in my quote is what she said in that scene if some of you didn't notice hehehe  :carcus:
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: CowTip on May 30, 2009, 09:56:33 PM
I know this is like beating a dead horse for you, but I took your advice and checked out volume 18 again. Unfortunately, all I have is the dark horse releases and there doesn't seem to be a translation of that moment available here on SK (unless I missed it somewhere), but from what I understood, it looks like only those with the brand truly exist outside of causality whereas skull knight is something else entirely. If that's more the case, then this all makes a lot more sense. Skully just keeps hoping that he'll find the one tiny flaw in causality, but as we've seen, failing in every respect except maaaybe where Guts is involved.

Again, forgive me if I've got it completely wrong. I'm just trying to work it out as best as I can with what we know so far.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Walter on May 30, 2009, 10:15:59 PM
but from what I understood, it looks like only those with the brand truly exist outside of causality whereas skull knight is something else entirely.
I had an explanation, but Aaz' is better, so read his post.

Quote
  If that's more the case, then this all makes a lot more sense. Skully just keeps hoping that he'll find the one tiny flaw in causality, but as we've seen, failing in every respect except maaaybe where Guts is involved
Well, it's less about Sk finding "a tiny flaw in causality" and more about striking at a critical moment when the God Hand are vulnerable. The "junction of times" as Femto and SK called it. Basically the critical moment when several threads of causality overlap.

Ahhh the rape scene :ganishka: what i thought was funny was when Slan was actually tearing up a bit because she was watching something she thought was beautiful
You people find comedy in the oddest things...
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Aazealh on May 30, 2009, 10:27:11 PM
it looks like only those with the brand truly exist outside of causality whereas skull knight is something else entirely

No one exists "outside" of causality's influence in the corporeal world (well, except maybe Griffith, but I wouldn't bet on it). Where do you get that from? Causality is the relation between causes and effects. It plays a role in Berserk because the Idea of Evil manipulates it to alter the world. What SK tells Guts in volume 18 is that because of the brand, he lives in the Interstice, and because of that (having a presence in the astral world), when the "times are joined" he might have a small chance to make a difference. Just during specific events, and just a small possibility.

Being branded doesn't matter beyond the fact branded people are in the Interstice. SK is a spiritual being in more ways than one so whatever applies to Guts in that regard applies to him as well; probably more so.

Again, forgive me if I've got it completely wrong. I'm just trying to work it out as best as I can with what we know so far.

It's alright. What use would the forum be if people couldn't ask questions about things they don't understand? :serpico: I do think it's all pretty clearly explained by SK in episode 142 though. But as long as you have questions, ask away. Even if you don't want to derail the thread, you can just PM me. Don't hesitate.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: CowTip on May 31, 2009, 12:08:42 AM
Well, maybe Guts isn't outside of causality per say but I'll explain where I got the idea from. Again, I'm going from the Dark Horse releases but Skull Knight refers to himself and 'others of our kind' as a reflection of the moonlight on the water, but points out that the brand puts Guts and Casca halfway between worlds and that he might just be a fish who is able to leap out of the water.

To me, that says that Skully sees Guts as more outside of the normal workings of the world, perhaps on a level that not even he is on. In my original post, I had assumed that Skull Knight and Guts were more or less on the same level, perhaps less predictable than most others. It all just seems so vague (What Skull Knight is best at doing it seems  :badbone:) that I'm not sure about it.

From the sounds of things (And as proven by the Eclipse and this episode), Skull Knight very well may have tried this sort of intervention more than we've seen. He's just looking for that unknown moment (junction of times whatever that means, it seems Skully isn't sure either). At least I figured that out~
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Aazealh on May 31, 2009, 12:18:24 AM
Again, I'm going from the Dark Horse releases but Skull Knight refers to himself and 'others of our kind' as a reflection of the moonlight on the water, but points out that the brand puts Guts and Casca halfway between worlds and that he might just be a fish who is able to leap out of the water.

SK referring to himself and "others of his kind"? Honestly I think you need to quote the whole dialogue accurately here because half-sentences are just going to be confusing, and there are errors in what you're saying.

To me, that says that Skully sees Guts as more outside of the normal workings of the world, perhaps on a level that not even he is on.

Well that's completely wrong, as I already told you. Hell, we don't even know whether SK was branded or not at some point.

In my original post, I had assumed that Skull Knight and Guts were more or less on the same level, perhaps less predictable than most others.

It's not really a matter of predictability though. At least not like the way Femto expected SK to show up because he always does show up in such situations.

From the sounds of things (And as proven by the Eclipse and this episode), Skull Knight very well may have tried this sort of intervention more than we've seen.

SK has been opposing the God Hand for a thousand years. 'Nuff said.

(junction of times whatever that means, it seems Skully isn't sure either)

I believe SK knows what it means perfectly well.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: CowTip on May 31, 2009, 12:39:47 AM
The specific text Skull Knight says is: "We already subsist within the current of causality. We who exist beyond the physical are still merely shadows on the water (I see now what you're saying, he is speaking of himself and Guts here)." At this point, Guts makes his proclamation that he carried himself this far and that he got out of the eclipse with Skull Knight's help and his determination to save Casca 'with my own strength'.

Skull Knight says: "Hmm...." turns to leave and responds: "Though minute, singular details certainly can occur at the time junction point that even they can't predict. I will in turn gamble everything on that point..... Furthermore, that brand carved into you, it may be of unanticipated aid. That is, the borderline between the physical and astral worlds. It's merely a half step, but you are outside the reason of the world. (I assumed this to be a reference to causality, I suppose now that he could maybe just mean physical rules like how normal people can't necessarily see fairies etc.) Maybe you aren't a shadow on the water, but instead a fish that breaches the water's surface." That's the full quote from the Dark Horse release. I'm not claiming it as how the original text meant it to be, just that it seemed strange to me that Skull Knight would say that he's merely a reflection but that Guts might be able to be something more (Maybe he thinks this of himself?) If this is getting too off topic like you said earlier, I can indeed stop posting about it, just again, curiosity.

And another thing, and this isn't meant to be an argument, but rather a simple question; If Skull Knight knows what the junction of times is, why does he keeping making these attempts? Would the Eclipse and the Ganishka part be considered separate junctions? I guess I assumed there would be only one chance (though I'm not sure why).
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Walter on May 31, 2009, 01:09:50 AM
At this point, Guts makes his proclamation that he carried himself this far and that he got out of the eclipse with Skull Knight's help and his determination to save Casca 'with my own strength'.
Actually, Guts says that last time (at the eclipse), SK was the one to save them. But this time Guts will rescue Casca by his own strength. Which is of course, exactly what happens.

Quote
It's merely a half step, but you are outside the reason of the world. (I assumed this to be a reference to causality, I suppose now that he could maybe just mean physical rules like how normal people can't necessarily see fairies etc.)
Yes, SK means the physical world's limitations don't apply to Guts in the same manner as "regular" humans because of his existence in the border between worlds.

Quote
it seemed strange to me that Skull Knight would say that he's merely a reflection but that Guts might be able to be something more (Maybe he thinks this of himself?)
SK doesn't say anything about him being a reflection, at all. You're misunderstanding the line. The moon is the only thing being reflected in the analogy. And SK and Guts are both leaping fishes in this analogy. Check vol 13, Slan uses the same analogy to describe SK's interference in the Eclipse, just as in vol 18 SK uses it to refer to Guts in his plan to interfere with the reincarnation ceremony. They're on equal grounds by this analogy.

Quote
And another thing, and this isn't meant to be an argument, but rather a simple question; If Skull Knight knows what the junction of times is, why does he keeping making these attempts? Would the Eclipse and the Ganishka part be considered separate junctions? I guess I assumed there would be only one chance (though I'm not sure why).
I think I described it well in my post. It's just the critical moment when several threads of causality collide to create an effect. A good example would be of course the birth of Femto in 13, when SK appeared, the incarnation of Femto in vol 21 and of course, the moment in ep 303 when Femto was about to touch Ganishka. These are all critical moments where God Hand were involved, and SK showed up. These are all junction points in causality's web.

Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: CowTip on May 31, 2009, 01:24:13 AM
Actually, Guts says that last time (at the eclipse), SK was the one to save them. But this time Guts will rescue Casca by his own strength. Which is of course, exactly what happens.

Sorry, I actually meant that, I just expressed it poorly with my sentence structure.

Quote
SK doesn't say anything about him being a reflection, at all. You're misunderstanding the line. The moon is the only thing being reflected in the analogy. And SK and Guts are both leaping fishes in this analogy. Check vol 13, Slan uses the same analogy to describe SK's interference in the Eclipse, just as in vol 18 SK uses it to refer to Guts in his plan to interfere with the reincarnation ceremony. They're on equal grounds by this analogy.

I guess I thought Skull Knight was referring to himself more as a shadow, but pointing out what Slan said is indeed a good reference. I'm guessing that Skull Knight's pause before the jumping fish analogy was simply because Skull Knight always knew the potential was there for Guts to be more like himself, but that perhaps he wasn't sure of his determination and focus before that point. Guts says it himself, before that point, he was just swinging his sword around.

Quote
I think I described it well in my post. It's just the critical moment when several threads of causality collide to create an effect. A good example would be of course the birth of Femto in 13, when SK appeared, the incarnation of Femto in vol 21 and of course, the moment in ep 303 when Femto was about to touch Ganishka. These are all critical moments where God Hand were involved, and SK showed up. These are all junction points in causality's web.

So yeah, you're saying that there's multiple points (or junctions in time) where there's a slight chance that Skully could do something. Again, I thought that there was only one, and there wasn't really any basis for it.

Hopefully I've got a decent enough idea about things now. Sorry if I was being a pest, but I appreciate the clear up.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Walter on May 31, 2009, 01:53:16 AM
Hopefully I've got a decent enough idea about things now. Sorry if I was being a pest, but I appreciate the clear up.
Not a problem I don't mind brushing up on complex shit like causality. And I understand you're new, but these are mostly things that have been covered dozens of times in the past. Next time if you have a question about something basic, just search for your answer or make a thread in an appropriate section. But Current Episodes discussion should be reserved for what it's named for.

Also, no need to respond to this post. Let's get back on 304.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Aazealh on May 31, 2009, 08:21:30 AM
Maybe you aren't a shadow on the water, but instead a fish that breaches the water's surface."
And SK and Guts are both leaping fishes in this analogy.

Sorry to be anal about this, but nothing is said about a jumping fish here. SK talks of a fish creating ripples in the water (actually illustrated earlier in their talk). Ripples that would distort the reflection of the moon on it, resulting in events happening differently. The moon shadow analogy and jumping fish analogy aren't perfectly compatible with each other, even though they're close in theme and meaning.

We already subsist within the current of causality. We who exist beyond the physical are still merely shadows on the water [...] it seemed strange to me that Skull Knight would say that he's merely a reflection but that Guts might be able to be something more (Maybe he thinks this of himself?)

That's why I asked you to quote every part specifically. I didn't remember whether DH had mistranslated some lines or not, but it's no surprise you were confused. The first sentence is "we are all within the flow of causality". The second one is "as long as we are in this world, we are nothing more than shadows on the water". The first part of the sentence is very important: as long as we are in this world. Not "we who exist beyond the physical". It's a really gross mistake and the resulting sentence makes no sense (it contradicts the rest of what he says). His statement refers to people in general and not just to him and Guts.

Guts exists beyond the physical world, even though it's by just a small step. That's why SK told him he could maybe do something. As for SK himself, he doesn't comment on it, but as Walter pointed out we've had plenty of occasions to see that he's not bound by the rules applying to the average Joe. Just looking at him is enough to realize it anyway.

So yeah, you're saying that there's multiple points (or junctions in time) where there's a slight chance that Skully could do something.

SK or Guts or a magic user like Flora.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: KazigluBey on May 31, 2009, 03:37:43 PM
I already re-reading the whole thing from first book. I'm sure I've missed a lot.
Having 1001 mangas and animes that needs to be watched parallell with reading Berserk, I'm sure it will take more than a year.

Again, don't kill me, but I was sick of it all. Not that I'm not adult enough to accept a rape scene, but I think it was a bit exaggerated. I'm not a big fan of hentai, you know, not that I am categorising it as a one, but I think it's enough for a rape scene to be a lesser scene. I mean, man, it wasn't long before that, that Casca was about to be raped by Wyald. But, that is not an objective opinion offcourse.

It's in the Seinen category for a reason. If you think that is bad you should check out one of my favs Go Nagai, especially Violence Jack.

Besides there was a reason for Griffith's raping of Casca, it wasn't just for shock.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Jaze1618 on June 04, 2009, 05:18:39 PM
There are three weeks in between releases this time because of a 5th Friday in May correct?
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Aazealh on June 04, 2009, 05:30:14 PM
There are three weeks in between releases this time because of a 5th Friday in May correct?

Yes.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Walter on June 04, 2009, 05:45:24 PM
Hopefully by Tues.-Wed. we'll know at least a text summary of what happens in 305. I wouldn't anticipate anything before then though.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Rhombaad on June 04, 2009, 08:46:45 PM
Think we'll see a preview image up on the Berserk Official Corner? :serpico:
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Aazealh on June 04, 2009, 09:09:52 PM
Think we'll see a preview image up on the Berserk Official Corner? :serpico:

Well the site hasn't been updated in a long time, so I wouldn't count on it if I were you. That being said, we never know when they might decide to start livening it up again.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Man With the 7 Brands on November 21, 2014, 02:42:01 AM
First post ever!   :carcus:

So I'm kind of a new Berserk fan relatively speaking. Found and watched the 90's TV series and fell in love with it a while ago. Never truly have been an avid manga reader so it took me a while to get to there but about a month ago I decided to take the plunge and really start reading the Berserk manga simply because I was craving more Berserk and boy did I find what I was craving/looking for to the umpteenth power. Couldn't stop reading once I started and caught up in a couple of weeks. Needless to say Berserk has become not just one of my favorite anime or manga of all time but really one of my favorite stories of all time too.

More to the point, I was just a tad bit confused about the ending of the Millennium Hawk Arc/this chapter and was hoping someone could help enlighten me. I think I understand what happened but not necessarily why. I get that Skull Knight attacks Femto with his dimensional sword (I hear Sword of Resonance isn't the correct translation which is what I was accustomed to calling it  :farnese:) and Femto essentially manipulates the strike so that it hits Ganishka which in turn opens the floodgates and merges the Astral with the Ideal world (basically bringing about "Fantasia").

First off just wanted to throw out there I've only read through/caught up to Berserk once so far but I plan a reread very soon so apologies in advance if something really obvious went over my head. But I guess my main question is how was Ganishka's death/SK's strike able to trigger the merging of realms/worlds as it did?

Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Aazealh on November 21, 2014, 01:01:17 PM
Hi and welcome to the forum! :guts:

More to the point, I was just a tad bit confused about the ending of the Millennium Hawk Arc/this chapter and was hoping someone could help enlighten me.

It's the Millennium Falcon arc (it's a Star Wars pun). The chapter that ended with the arc is the Chapter of Falconia, and this thread is about episode 304. Just so we're clear about the terminology. :slan:

I get that Skull Knight attacks Femto with his dimensional sword (I hear Sword of Resonance isn't the correct translation which is what I was accustomed to calling it  :farnese:)

You can just call it a "beherit sword", which is essentially what it is. "Sword of Resonance" is indeed a mistranslation.

And since you're a big fan of Berserk, I recommend you to buy the manga instead of just reading online scans. Not only will you find less translation mistakes in there, but you will be officially supporting Berserk's author. Dark Horse, the official editor of Berserk in the USA, sees so little demand for it that reprinting the older volumes is almost seen as a gamble for them. (http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=13899.0) And yet there are more English-speaking fans than ever before! That's just not right. Without real support from the fans, the risk is that someday support will be dropped altogether. I think that would be very sad.

merges the Astral with the Ideal world (basically bringing about "Fantasia").

Actually the astral world merged with the corporeal world.

how was Ganishka's death/SK's strike able to trigger the merging of realms/worlds as it did?

After what happened in Vritannis, Ganishka knew he just couldn't stand against Griffith. Aside from his army of apostles, Griffith himself just was too strong, and had such an influence over Ganishka that he could bring him to his knees without effort. Ganishka had to become more powerful.

Desperate, with no contingency plan but to make a last stand, Ganishka decided to plunge himself into the "artificial beherit" he and Daiba had created. That contraption used captured apostles to create a portal to the depths of the astral world. They had been using it to create the Daka. So Ganishka went down the "vat", descended at the bottom of the astral world, and absorbed as much power as he could.

The experience changed him. He was transmuted again, not just an apostle anymore but something more. Much, much more. He had tried to gather enough power to match that of a member of the God Hand, and so his corporeal form (his physical body) wasn't enough for it. If you'll remember, members of the God Hand cannot normally materialize themselves in the corporeal world. That's because they have way too much power. When Femto came into the world, incarnated into a new Griffith, it was a "once in a thousand years" event that had likely been carefully planned. Ganishka's self-made method ended up with him having that gigantic body, to contain an equally gigantic power. But beyond his body, Ganishka himself couldn't quite handle all that power. He became half mad.

Anyway, for all his efforts, he was still no match for a member of the God Hand. He had brought back a mind blowing amount of power, but Femto pacified him with ease. Then came the Skull Knight. Always ready to strike at every tenuous opportunity. So much so that this time his attempt was expected. He struck, but Femto deflected his blade. And it wasn't just any blade. The Skull Knight had been collecting beherits for a long time, storing them inside his body. He thought the resulting weapon would be potent enough to deal with the God Hand.

But what does the sword do? It cuts through the layers of the world. It does so thanks of the beherits it uses. In volume 13, the beherits are called "Ikai e no Yobimizu". That roughly translates as "drops of primed water leading to another world". They come from the deepest depths of the astral world, the abyss (as we can see during the Eclipse). When they are activated, they create a link between the corporeal world and their place of origin. By coating his weapon with them, the Skull Knight turns it into a "Yobimizu no Tsurugi". A sword that can "prime a pump". Unfortunately the meaning of the expression does not translate well into English, which is why we just say "beherit sword".

And now, for your actual question: when SK's sword struck Ganishka, it cut right through him. But it didn't just pierce his skin like a normal sword would. It cut through him on the astral level. Like an overblown balloon that tears in the middle, Ganishka was ripped inside out. All of the vast power that he had brought back into the world and had tried to contain within himself then spilled over the corporeal world, covering it integrally in one big wave of light. Thus were the worlds merged.

It's worth noting that this had been the God Hand's plan all along. It went off without a hitch.
Title: Re: Episode 304
Post by: Delta Phi on November 21, 2014, 10:15:39 PM
First off just wanted to throw out there I've only read through/caught up to Berserk once so far but I plan a reread very soon so apologies in advance if something really obvious went over my head.

Not to dissuade you from actually reading the manga, but if you want a really nice detailed companion to your re-read, I suggest checking out the SkullKast lead by the forum admin (http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?board=50.0). You can find all of them here (http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?board=50.0). So far they've covered up through volume 12, and all of it is fantastic.