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Berserk => Current Episodes => Topic started by: Aazealh on June 09, 2009, 08:42:49 AM

Title: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 09, 2009, 08:42:49 AM
Title: 開闢 - The beginning of the world (http://www.younganimal.com/berserk/)



No break in the next YA (6/26), and there'll be additional Berserk pages! All fans rejoice! And now, some previews of episode 305:

(http://aazealh.net/Divers/Preview/01.jpg) (http://aazealh.net/Divers/Preview/02.jpg) (http://aazealh.net/Divers/Preview/03.jpg) (http://aazealh.net/Divers/Preview/04.jpg) (http://aazealh.net/Divers/Preview/05.jpg)

A view of Berserk's Earth from the moon (SK's secret base?! :isidro: :troll:)! And now it's clear that the whole world is being covered in Ganishka's light.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: cryo on June 09, 2009, 08:53:02 AM
so back to guts, yay!
is the last image a shot from the moon shpwing the earth getting covered by ganishkas light, or is it just me?
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Gobolatula on June 09, 2009, 08:55:09 AM
Oh my Lord... The Moonmen have quite a sight to see!

In all seriousness, the obligatory "HOLY SHIT," "I CAN'T WAIT," and "WHOA IT'S GUTS!"

We're in for some serious shit, my friends.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Xem on June 09, 2009, 08:55:25 AM
Wow! Tapping my foot in anticipation as I type this, simply awesome.

And, is it just me, or is Guts startin to look bit healthier?  :guts:
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 09, 2009, 08:58:53 AM
is the last image a shot from the moon shpwing the earth getting covered by ganishkas light, or is it just me?

No, that's exactly what it is.

And, is it just me, or is Guts startin to look bit healthier?  :guts:

Hard to say from a shot like this. He still looks gaunt in that picture.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Knight on June 09, 2009, 09:01:32 AM
Is this the end of Millennium Falcon? :guts:
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 09, 2009, 09:03:18 AM
Is this the end of Millennium Falcon? :guts:

Not yet, and it's also still the chapter of Falconia.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Knight on June 09, 2009, 09:19:17 AM
Hm, what's on the last scan? Its not part of Ganishka's body. Apostle? But this plough... It's that guys' from 297.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 09, 2009, 09:26:35 AM
Hm, what's on the last scan? Its not part of Ganishka's body. Apostle? But this plough... It's that guys' from 297.

Yeah, it looks like a plow. Could be anyone's, though. The question is why is there some snake-tail thingie next to it? Did normal humans transform into monsters? Have spiritual creatures appeared into the world (and if so, are they attacking people)?

Side note, but Miura's comment is that he prays for the soul of Kaoru Kurimoto (recently deceased author of Guin Saga).
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Donald Shimoda on June 09, 2009, 09:31:02 AM
Yay Guts! I'm wondering how hes gonna get all the rust off of that metal forearm lol. Its going to be a lot of scrubbing with a wire brush, 1 handed!.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Knight on June 09, 2009, 09:45:59 AM
Quote
Did normal humans transform into monsters?

And how about "kingdom of heaven" and crowning :judo:
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 09, 2009, 09:53:28 AM
And how about "kingdom of heaven" and crowning :judo:

Kingdom of heaven? You mean a heavenly kingdom under Griffith's rule? Anyway, whatever's happening, monsters have appeared (total letdown if it's just an apostle :ganishka:).
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Knight on June 09, 2009, 10:00:20 AM
Hm, probably kingdom "looks like heaven", which Griff dreamed for. And then people should make hell from it. Like God Hand planed.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 09, 2009, 10:04:13 AM
Hm, probably kingdom "looks like heaven", which Griff dreamed for. And then people should make hell from it. Like God Hand planed.

Griffith wants to be king. We don't know what he wants his kingdom to be like (and he might have different desires and reasons for it now than he did as a human, before the Eclipse). Same with the God Hand, of which Griffith is a member. We don't know what its plans are.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Knight on June 09, 2009, 10:10:51 AM
Ok, but if he wants "kingdom of hell", why all this "defend pope! defend people!", cakes from Charlotte. Yes, i know Femto wants Hell :guts: But he wants that people do it themselves.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 09, 2009, 10:34:58 AM
Yes, i know Femto wants Hell :guts: But he wants that people do it themselves.

That's groundless speculation. We don't know the details of what Femto wants.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: ironman on June 09, 2009, 10:42:56 AM
The question is why is there some snake-tail thingie next to it?

It could be a net.


Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 09, 2009, 10:53:12 AM
It could be a net.

I was also reminded of a net, but looking at its shape and considering the context, I don't think that's what it is.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Knight on June 09, 2009, 10:54:21 AM
Quote
That's groundless speculation. We don't know the details of what Femto wants.
Yes, we dont. But we can speculate about near future, basing on what Griffith Reborn done, and How! he it done.
He need Pope. He need Charlotte. He need people of Midland, alive. If he want to do hell himself, why he didnt take rule by his own, Femto force?
And in the end, true Devil always only pushes human, human has right to choice.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 09, 2009, 11:07:04 AM
we can speculate about near future, basing on what Griffith Reborn done, and How! he it done.

"Griffith Reborn" isn't a designation I would recommend you to use. It's a misnomer.

He need Pope. He need Charlotte. He need people of Midland, alive. If he want to do hell himself, why he didnt take rule by his own, Femto force?

The fact Griffith didn't just destroy everything and everyone he came across doesn't prove your earlier point. And if I were you I wouldn't be so sure of what he really needs or not. Not every action has to be motivated by a basic need.

And in the end, true Devil always only pushes human, human has right to choice.

What's your basis for defining what a "true devil" is like? And in a world governed by causality, human choices have been shown to not matter much.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Knight on June 09, 2009, 11:36:41 AM
Quote
The fact Griffith didn't just destroy everything and everyone he came across doesn't prove your earlier point.
Ok. Esclipse. Why God Hand didnt do Femto by force? Because sacrifice is "act of will". It proves that idea of "freedom of will" is important in Berserk.
Then. Miura want to show us the differece beetween "true" and "not true" darkness. We know that Griffith must be true, but dont know how it will look exactly. But we know how looks "not true" darkness. Its Great Emperor Ganishka. People under his rule didnt choose anything, they are victims which only want "normal life".

In fact for this moment people didnt choose evil, in Albion them wanted only salvation. So if "kingdom of hell" should start from this moment, Griffith wont be "true".
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: MaN on June 09, 2009, 11:50:14 AM
Light that bright would blind many folks.... The last scan just looks like a netting fluttering in the wind.. Looking forward to it.

Keep going Miura!!
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: cryo on June 09, 2009, 11:59:46 AM
looking at the bottom of the thing in the last scan , you can see something very close to a snake's/reptile's underbelly, so i doubt it's a net
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 09, 2009, 12:04:03 PM
Ok. Esclipse. Why God Hand didnt do Femto by force? Because sacrifice is "act of will". It proves that idea of "freedom of will" is important in Berserk.

What the hell are you talking about? Yes, Griffith chose to sacrifice his men. But that doesn't prove anything you said. His whole life was engineered so he'd chose to. And he did. What's the relation with forcing things? "Doing Femto by force"? What does that even mean? Not only is it hardly possible considering the very process a member of the God Hand goes through to be born, but there was no need to.

We're told very early in Berserk that the world is ruled by the principle of causality, and that people's choices matter very little in the end. That's a hard fact that's only being put into question now that the worlds are merging. And your basic premise fully contradicts it.

Then. Miura want to show us the differece beetween "true" and "not true" darkness. We know that Griffith must be true, but dont know how it will look exactly. But we know how looks "not true" darkness. Its Great Emperor Ganishka. People under his rule didnt choose anything, they are victims which only want "normal life".

Dude I'm sorry to tell you but what you're saying here isn't just confusing, it's also not based on anything concrete in the story. "True" and "untrue" darkness is a notion you just made up. And you don't know what Miura wants to show us or not either.

Ganishka was evil and that's that. His brief rule of the Midland territory he conquered was brutal and grisly. That's all. What people did or what they wanted doesn't matter. As for Griffith's rule, like you said, we don't know what it'll be like. But because we know what Ganishka's rule while still at war was like doesn't mean we can deduce that Griffith's country will be paradisiac, only to be corrupted by its people. That's just an assumption. It's not impossible, but nothing proves it will happen either, so don't pretend otherwise.

If fact for this moment people didnt choose evil, in Albion them wanted only salvation. So if "kingdom of hell" should start from this moment, Griffith wont be "true".

I'm sorry but I don't understand what you're saying. You need to make an effort with your English. What people wanted in Albion didn't matter. And many of them weren't good people. As for Griffith, what he is or not isn't defined by people's intentions. He's the Falcon of Darkness and nothing will change that.

looking at the bottom of the thing in the last scan , you can see something very close to a snake's/reptile's underbelly, so i doubt it's a net

People assume it could be the extremity of the net, like a rope or something.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Walter on June 09, 2009, 12:07:03 PM
Hey Knight. Chill out. This is the 305 hype thread, ok?

And WHOA! Neo Tokyo just EXPLODED!  :isidro:

That last page is the most haunting for me. I have utterly no idea what it's of. My first thought was that it was a sea creature near the boat... But ... now Im thinking its near the farms outside Wyndham, showing the first glimpse of astral creatures appearing in the world -- their new home. What a tease this preview scanner is!
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 09, 2009, 12:09:44 PM
That last page is the most haunting for me. I have utterly no idea what it's of.

Maybe the tail of a Cockatrice... :zodd:
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Walter on June 09, 2009, 12:10:46 PM
Maybe the tail of a Cockatrice... :zodd:
How about something with the body of a snake... with The Pontiff's face? :ganishka:

Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Knight on June 09, 2009, 12:12:59 PM
Quote
What the hell are you talking about?
About human's right to choose. Between humanity and evil. I think this philosophical idea is important in Berserk. You don't think so?
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 09, 2009, 12:23:19 PM
How about something with the body of a snake... with The Pontiff's face? :ganishka:

(http://aazealh.net/Divers/Seaman.jpg)

About human's right to choose. Between humanity and evil. I think this philosophical idea is important in Berserk. You don't think so?

I think we've been shown times and times again that humans don't have much of a right to choose anything in Berserk. They endure, they suffer and they die. The strong rules the weak. Do you Griffith asked the residents of the world the permission to do what he just did? Even when it comes to people becoming apostles or members of the God Hand, causality is involved. Especially in such cases actually.

(http://www.skullknight.net/avatars/Beherit02.jpg)

Remember the text that accompanies this illustration in volume 5?
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Knight on June 09, 2009, 12:34:15 PM
And how about Apostles? In sacrificial ceremony they have right to choose. In Volume 3 we can see that this right is real.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 09, 2009, 12:39:52 PM
And how about Apostles? In sacrificial ceremony they have right to choose. In Volume 3 we can see that this right is real.

The Count existed in the spiritual world since he was already an apostle (not comparable to a normal human), and a sacrificial ceremony might be a time when the very unlikely becomes possible. We don't know. Furthermore, nothing says that his refusal wasn't planned or that it mattered in any way.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: SaiyajinNoOuji on June 09, 2009, 01:04:40 PM
Oh this will be good. Looking forward to what is going to come out of the wood work.  :carcus:
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Knight on June 09, 2009, 01:06:35 PM
Quote
he Count existed in the spiritual world since he was already an apostle (not comparable to a normal human), and a sacrificial ceremony might be a time when the very unlikely becomes possible. We don't know. Furthermore, nothing says that his refusal wasn't foreseen or that it mattered in any way.

In episode 142 SK say about God Hand: "...if there's a place where the mind is too strong, they cannot bring their bodies along with them".
So probably "right to choose" is real, and can be used against God's will.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Proj2501 on June 09, 2009, 01:19:20 PM
Wow, a moon shot! Jeez, it's gonna be something else reading this episode.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 09, 2009, 01:33:55 PM
In episode 142 SK say about God Hand: "...if there's a place where the mind is too strong, they cannot bring their bodies along with them".
So probably "right to choose" is real, and can be used against God's will.

You're not quoting this line correctly, and so what you're saying doesn't make sense. Sounds like you're mistaken about the whole thing to be honest. So with that in mind, I'd appreciate if we got back to episode 305. Like Walter said, this isn't the right thread for me to be explaining this to you.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Knight on June 09, 2009, 01:42:07 PM
Quote
You're not quoting this line correctly

So there are no words about strong human will on that page?=)

Quote
this isn't the right thread

ok
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: TheBranded1 on June 09, 2009, 01:44:40 PM

Just great! We get a view of the berserk world from outer space,Guts and Co., and some tail,tentacle of some creature(not sure what it is). For speculation, I"ll say it'll be something similar to the pic below. Who knows for now?  Good preview indeed, now just wait a couple of more days and be awed by more of Miura's drawings and story.

(http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/2446/anacondaur.gif)
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 09, 2009, 01:48:15 PM
So there are no words about strong human will on that page?=)

Unfortunately for your theory, no. What SK says is that because the God Hand have such huge spiritual bodies, they cannot manifest in the flesh on the corporeal world. Then he goes on to say that there's an exception to this: once in a thousand years, one of them can be incarnated (what happened to Femto).
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Knight on June 09, 2009, 01:59:21 PM
Ok, as the end of our discussion, can you write this quote if it has differences from mine?
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: jackson_hurley on June 09, 2009, 02:08:20 PM
That last page is the most haunting for me. I have utterly no idea what it's of.!

Its the return of... the snake baron! what?! haha

Joke aside I can't wait to see the repercussion of Ganishka's light covering the world. I'm also curious to see if we're gonna see Guts longer than a page or if it's gonna be like when Ganishka when out of his daka machine.

Either way it's just gonna be awesome.

Now what can that snakish tail really be?!   :schierke:
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Rhombaad on June 09, 2009, 02:10:57 PM
I had the feeling a preview of some sort would be waiting when I got into work this morning. That view from space is pretty epic, and what the hell is that thing on the last page?! I can't wait until the raws are released!

P.S. I think Guts is looking healthier, too. He's still pretty thin, but at least his burns look better. :serpico:
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Walter on June 09, 2009, 02:12:13 PM
Its the return of... the snake baron! what?! haha

Now what can that snakish tail really be?!   :schierke:
I wish you'd quoted the other portion of my post, since it's what I actually think is happening  :azan: : astral creatures manifesting in the physical world.

And yeah, I'm deeeeefinitely looking forward to the full 2-page spread of the view from space. Finally, we get a map -- NAY, a GLOBE! -- of the world :ganishka:
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: jackson_hurley on June 09, 2009, 02:14:49 PM
I wish you'd quoted the other portion of my post, since it's what I actually think is happening  :azan: : astral creatures manifesting in the physical world.

yeah well I must admit that I'm going with your idea about astral creature. I just felt like bringing Mr Snake Baron with us in the thread since he's missing all the fun right now!  :guts:

Now I just hope that it's a really big really nice new astral creature that we've never see (which is probably the case since we just got a small glimpse, well I hope)
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 09, 2009, 02:19:23 PM
Ok, as the end of our discussion, can you write this quote if it has differences from mine?

It's like I just said in my previous post. I'm at work right now so don't expect me to give you the whole page or something (besides, again, this isn't the thread for it). And it's not just "differences"; what you said was completely wrong.

I'm also curious to see if we're gonna see Guts longer than a page or if it's gonna be like when Ganishka when out of his daka machine.

In all likeliness we'll see the wave of light wash over him and the others.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Johnstantine on June 09, 2009, 03:05:07 PM
The manga is pretty much in epic-movie-mode right now.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: SiRAuron on June 09, 2009, 03:08:04 PM
I was actually hoping the story wouldn't shift back to Guts just yet, there's more I'd like to see with Griffith.  Hoping that it's just a one page shot to show the scope of the light and what has happened, but we shall see.  

At first glance, I thought the thing in the last panel just looked like netting.  But the shape of it, and what looks like belly scales along the bottom make me think it's a creature.  Hopefully it's not just an apostle but some other creature manifesting into the world like walter said.  
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Walter on June 09, 2009, 03:12:23 PM
I was actually hoping the story wouldn't shift back to Guts just yet, there's more I'd like to see with Griffith.  Hoping that it's just a one page shot to show the scope of the light and what has happened, but we shall see.
Just because it shows one shot of Guts' band doesn't mean the story has switched perspectives. Based on that last page, I'd say it's likely the story will still focus on Griffith until at least the next episode.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 09, 2009, 03:14:04 PM
(http://aazealh.net/Divers/Preview/06.jpg)

Hahaha a hydra, holy shit! :ganishka:
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Walter on June 09, 2009, 03:15:22 PM
Let the Age of Darkness begin  :griffnotevil:
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 09, 2009, 03:16:47 PM
Let the Age of Darkness begin  :griffnotevil:

We were right all along! Awesome stuff. :badbone:

PS: Check out how the hydra's eating one of the unicorns. :ganishka:
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: The Beast of Darkness on June 09, 2009, 03:18:23 PM
Look at that!
an hydra, unicorns and see what's in the sky, some harpies!!!.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Walter on June 09, 2009, 03:20:01 PM
Yeah it's really fascinating, and I think it shows us a bit about what just occurred. The unicorns a moment ago were probably drinking from some happy spring, minding their own, and then BOOM, suddenly they occupy the same space as a hydra from another, more nightmarish domain. CHOMP!  :chomp:
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: The Beast of Darkness on June 09, 2009, 03:29:42 PM
After seeing those Mythological creatures, who knows what Guts and the others may confront on the sea, kraken, sea serpent, the harpies!?.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Walter on June 09, 2009, 03:34:23 PM
After seeing those Mythological creatures, who knows what Guts and the others may confront on the sea, kraken, sea serpent, the harpies!?.
I'm a little more concerned about what they'll face when they get to Elfhelm. Of course, there's probably no one more knowledgeable or better equipped to deal with magical creatures than the magicians of Elfhelm.

The ultimate effect of this mass merging I believe could mean the humans will have to be even more reliant on Griffith and his apostle army's muscle than before. "Come with me if you want to live." Of course, it will likely mean many, many other things too.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Griffith on June 09, 2009, 03:37:23 PM
Unicorns, and hydras, and harpies, oh my! :isidro: :azan: :schierke: :???:

After seeing those Mythological creatures, who knows what Guts and the others may confront on the sea, kraken, sea serpent, the harpies!?.

Yeah, with Guts' luck... Episode 306: Bad Day on the High Sea (http://www.brandonbird.com/highsea.html)
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Knight on June 09, 2009, 03:41:47 PM
Quote
Come with me if you want to live.

Ah, now new world should instigate people to do "right" choice. Griffith will teach them how to live.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Rhombaad on June 09, 2009, 03:41:58 PM
Whoa! I can't wait to see where things go from here. Think the apostles will have to deal with astral creatures that even they can't handle? That hydra is awesome (poor unicorns... :sad:).

Ah, now new world should instigate people to do "right" choice.

What the hell are you talking about?
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Knight on June 09, 2009, 03:44:42 PM
All who want to live go to Griffith's kingdom :guts:
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: The Beast of Darkness on June 09, 2009, 03:58:42 PM
Yeah, with Guts' luck... Episode 306: Bad Day on the High Sea (http://www.brandonbird.com/highsea.html)

Nice find, brilliant! :ganishka:
That hydra is awesome (poor unicorns... :sad:).

Yep, I got the same thought as you about the unicorns... :judo:
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Rhombaad on June 09, 2009, 04:08:42 PM
Yeah, with Guts' luck... Episode 306: Bad Day on the High Sea (http://www.brandonbird.com/highsea.html)

Haha, that's great! :ganishka:
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Cronus on June 09, 2009, 04:14:52 PM
Is Guts' mechanical arm bandaged in that first picture of him?
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Death May Die on June 09, 2009, 04:15:10 PM
Interesting EPISODE.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: cryo on June 09, 2009, 04:16:48 PM
hydra and unicorns, cool! even though i'm excited about these new developments, i'm also a bit worried about the direction Miura might take it in, here's to hoping it won't be too 'bland fantasy'-ish , but knowing Miura, those worries are silly   :schnoz:
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Walter on June 09, 2009, 04:21:38 PM
Is Guts' mechanical arm bandaged in that first picture of him?
It's been bandaged since they set sail. Like we talked about earlier, salt in the air is bad for the metal, I guess.

i'm also a bit worried about the direction Miura might take it in, here's to hoping it won't be too 'bland fantasy'-ish
I think around the time the hydra bit into the unicorn was when you should have tossed that worry out. This is still the Berserk world, with Miura's slant on mythological creatures. It's sure to keep surprising us and make us go "OH MY GOD."
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Raffiki on June 09, 2009, 04:22:23 PM
O_o  So much to come ! Is it possible to see some GHs in the near future, since this merging occured ?

NB : I found the hydra's design a little bit weird. (cf: the link-up between the head and the neck)
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Smith on June 09, 2009, 04:30:30 PM
Wow!!!... Merging of all the worlds and realms...

Seriously does that really mean the GH can make a physical appearance now?


This is beyond awesome, I have limited vocabs to describe it...  :sad:
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 09, 2009, 04:42:53 PM
Episode title is "The beginning of the world".

After seeing those Mythological creatures, who knows what Guts and the others may confront on the sea, kraken, sea serpent, the harpies!?.

By harpies I think you mean sirens, don't you? Anyway, there are many cool possibilities, most of which have already been discussed in the past because we're totally visionaries. :badbone:

I'm a little more concerned about what they'll face when they get to Elfhelm. Of course, there's probably no one more knowledgeable or better equipped to deal with magical creatures than the magicians of Elfhelm.

I'm not sure it'll be especially bad in Elfhelm. After all, the place was likely already in the spiritual realm, so unicorns and the like might very well have already been around. It's one of the few places that may actually be mostly unaffected.

The ultimate effect of this mass merging I believe could mean the humans will have to be even more reliant on Griffith and his apostle army's muscle than before. "Come with me if you want to live." Of course, it will likely mean many, many other things too.

Definitely. All in all it's a very interesting turn of events, but really, what else could I say when it's what I've been hoping for for years? :guts:

Think the apostles will have to deal with astral creatures that even they can't handle? That hydra is awesome (poor unicorns... :sad:).

Very possible. Bring on the crazy monsters! Kundalini galore! :daiba:

even though i'm excited about these new developments, i'm also a bit worried about the direction Miura might take it in, here's to hoping it won't be too 'bland fantasy'-ish , but knowing Miura, those worries are silly   :schnoz:

It's beyond silly and well into plain unworthiness. :mozgus:

O_o  So much to come ! Is it possible to see some GHs in the near future, since this merging occured ?

Maybe, maybe not. In the near future might be asking a bit much, but then again with the endless stream of awesomeness being graced onto us, you never know. We'll see them eventually anyway, and when we do it'll no doubt be incredible. :void:

NB : I found the hydra's design a little bit weird. (cf: the link-up between the head and the neck)

Think of it as a multi-headed snake.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: TheBranded1 on June 09, 2009, 04:56:30 PM
I step away for an hour and all this awesome stuff appears. WOW! I can see those creatures being colored in the future :carcus:

Episode title is "The beginning of the world".

What a WORLD! Just great!
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: MaN on June 09, 2009, 04:57:03 PM
Double spread galore. There were Unicorns in the land before?!? ... or did they also appear due to merging of worlds.

Kinda Ironic that it is the enveloping of the world in light that starts the age of darkness. The only way I see humans sticking by Griffith now is because they see no other way but to submit, at least in the long run.  

This is a question I wonder about: What is the goal for Griffith? He doesn't really give a damn about people or even apostles for that matter. He has all the power. It seems like all that he could achieve he already has and without much of an effort. The age of darkness starts but now what ...? May be Griffith will ultimately challenge Idea itself in episode 500... Far out dude.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 09, 2009, 05:02:07 PM
There were Unicorns in the land before?!? ... or did they also appear due to merging of worlds.

The merging of the worlds is causing all kinds of astral creatures to now appear among humans.

Kinda Ironic that it is the enveloping of the world in light that starts the age of darkness.

Well yeah, just like it's ironic that the Falcon of Darkness is also the Falcon of Light.

The only way I see humans sticking by Griffith now is because they see no other way but to submit, at least in the long run.

He may very well just represent the best alternative for them at the moment. Right now he's everyone's hero. What's left to see is how they'll react to the merging. Maybe when people are threatened by spiritual creatures that are fundamentally alien to them, they will prefer to rely on a purely human-based power: the God Hand and the apostles.

This is a question I wonder about: What is the goal for Griffith? He doesn't really give a damn about people or even apostles for that matter. He has all the power. It seems like all that he could achieve he already has and without much of an effort. The age of darkness starts but now what ...?

It wouldn't be fun if we knew everything in advance. Use your imagination. :slan:

May be Griffith will ultimately challenge Idea itself in episode 500... Far out dude.

I'll go ahead and say right now that it will never happen.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Rhombaad on June 09, 2009, 05:13:02 PM
Very possible. Bring on the crazy monsters! Kundalini galore! :daiba:

Since Kundalini and the like may very well show up, think the Elemental Kings will? I wonder how the merging of the worlds will affect Schierke's magic...
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Proj2501 on June 09, 2009, 05:16:27 PM
Since Kundalini and the like may very well show up, think the Elemental Kings will?  

I wonder. It'd be nice for there to be something that poses a new threat to Griffith or an even greater one than Ganishka (well he never really was one). Perhaps the Elemental Kings may play some role again. It'd be something else. I'd like to see Apostles go up against some force again. The Chibis didn't cut it for me.

Apostles vs.......DRAGONS.      :guts:         Who wouldn't want to see Zodd duke it out with a dragon?! :zodd:

Damn...each episode has just been better than the one before. Miura does not disappoint.

Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Walter on June 09, 2009, 05:17:56 PM
Since Kundalini and the like may very well show up, think the Elemental Kings will? I wonder how the merging of the worlds will affect Schierke's magic...
This is something we should probably discuss at length, because there's no easy answer, or way for us to know how beings deeper down the astral world will interact with things in the future.

I wonder how this merging will affect all magical powers, since some of what Schierke does is summon powerful beings deep within the astral world. Will she be able to maintain control of them still? Is it possible the Lord of Rotting Roots is now bounding about outside Enoch Village? That's a little scary ... What about astral projection and all the time spent delving into how it's done. How will that be affected now that all the worlds are one?

I think what we're seeing now are creatures close to the upper layers of the astral world -- the first ones out the door so to speak. But what of the greater beings, those without form? And of course, the million-dollar question is what about the God Hand? Will we soon see Conrad flying overhead on a sperm whale with wings?

So many questions, and no ready answers.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Malachai on June 09, 2009, 05:20:00 PM
Is it just me or does Guts face look a little elongated? Maybe that's just the a preview distortion...


Also, why do you suppose the white in his hair disappears when the light washes over him?


Further, i wonder if this light will do anything to casca? Or even, if this light will have a different effect on people with the brand?



Hydras....Unicorns...Harpies...


That can only mean one thing...


DRAGONS.


*hopes to soon see the reality of the volume 3 cover*
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Walter on June 09, 2009, 05:23:41 PM
Hair color and facial elongation

...

Wow, dude.

You're certainly focusing on some fascinating things in the midst of this world-changing event.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Malachai on June 09, 2009, 05:26:38 PM
Hair color and facial elongation

...

Wow, dude.

You're certainly focusing on some fascinating things in the midst of this world-changing event.

when you put it that way...

 :serpico:
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Rhombaad on June 09, 2009, 05:29:05 PM
Is it just me or does Guts face look a little elongated? Maybe that's just the a preview distortion...

It looks the same to me.

Also, why do you suppose the white in his hair disappears when the light washes over him?

Because he's glowing brightly? What does it even matter?

Hydras....Unicorns...Harpies...

Those are sirens, not harpies. The two are often confused.

DRAGONS.

One can only hope! Perhaps even a few that rival Grunbeld. It's funny how some apostles almost mimic creatures you'd expect to be in the spiritual world. Like Grunbeld and that bird apostle, which looks a lot like the sirens flying overhead, for instance.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 09, 2009, 05:31:13 PM
Since Kundalini and the like may very well show up, think the Elemental Kings will? I wonder how the merging of the worlds will affect Schierke's magic...

Hmm, I don't know... They're seemingly pure spirits, so they might dwell too deep to directly appear in the world like that. Same for the spirits Schierke usually summons to help her. But who knows. Pretty much everything's possible at this point.

I wonder. It'd be nice for there to be something that poses a new threat to Griffith or an even greater one than Ganishka (well he never really was one). Perhaps the Elemental Kings may play some role again. It'd be something else.

I don't really see the Four Elemental Kings attacking Griffith out of the blue. Do they even feel the necessary concern to do that? They're beings wholly unlike humans, don't forget that.

Also, why do you suppose the white in his hair disappears when the light washes over him?

His white patch is still there in the picture we see. His spiritual form obviously doesn't show it, just like it doesn't show his other minor scars. The one on his nose probably appears because it's become a part of how he represents himself or something equally esoteric. :guts:

Further, i wonder if this light will do anything to casca? Or even, if this light will have a different effect on people with the brand?

Well they were already in the Interstice, so who knows?

DRAGONS.

*hopes to soon see the reality of the volume 3 cover*

Hahaha, that would be fun. "Miura had planned it ALL ALONG!!" :ganishka:

Those are sirens, not harpies. The two are often confused.

Sirens would be at sea and even then that's hypothetical, but the creatures we see in the preview might very well be harpies.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Rhombaad on June 09, 2009, 05:34:31 PM
Sirens would be at sea and even then that's hypothetical, but the creatures we see in the preview might very well be harpies.

That's true, Miura doesn't always follow classical mythology. He usually ends up doing his own thing.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: deathbybears on June 09, 2009, 05:52:26 PM
This episode is damn awesome. Also, Az, if you're right about Skully living on the god damn moon, I'm gonna have to laugh for like a good four or five minutes.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 09, 2009, 05:56:32 PM
That's true, Miura doesn't always follow classical mythology. He usually ends up doing his own thing.

Well I think what we've seen is pretty close to the mythological description of harpies, don't you? Anyway, they kind of remind me of the bird apostle we saw in episode 301.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Rhombaad on June 09, 2009, 06:00:21 PM
Well I think what we've seen is pretty close to the mythological description of harpies, don't you? Anyway, they kind of remind me of the bird apostle we saw in episode 301.

Yeah, but I think the two can both be described as bird women, although these being over land is probably closer to the description of harpies, since sirens were sort of allocated to one particular island. At first I thought one of 'em was the bird apostle, until I saw how many there were. :serpico:
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 09, 2009, 06:07:26 PM
Yeah, but I think the two can both be described as bird women, although these being over land is probably closer to the description of harpies, since sirens were sort of allocated to one particular island.

Yeah, and there's also the fact that physically, while the sirens' appearance does vary in mythology, the harpies have mostly been depicted consistently, and those depictions fit the creatures featured in this episode remarkably well. It should also be noted that there were only three Sirens in the original tale, so that's a discrepancy as well. Lastly, their most important feature has always been their song, which was said to be irresistible, and we don't see any singing going on in this episode.

Anyway, this talk about mythological monsters really makes me wonder which one of them we'll see next. There are so many possibilities! :guts:
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Griffith on June 09, 2009, 06:19:55 PM
hydra and unicorns, cool! even though i'm excited about these new developments, i'm also a bit worried about the direction Miura might take it in, here's to hoping it won't be too 'bland fantasy'-ish , but knowing Miura, those worries are silly :schnoz:

That touches on an interesting point, the archetypal fantasy elements are being intentionally used to tie this into real folklore and mythology that's common to the thinking and literature of both our reality and the fictional Berserk world. In a way, you almost have to think of this as if it was happening in the real world and not one where we already know about monsters, witches, and astral bodies. For most of the denizens of Berserk, this is like if you saw Godzilla attacking Tokyo in real life.

Anyway, this talk about mythological monsters really makes me wonder which one of them we'll see next. There are so many possibilities!

I wonder if we won't also see some trolls and ogres stomping around to establish a tie between them and these "new" creatures.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 09, 2009, 06:26:36 PM
I wonder if we won't also see some trolls and ogres stomping around to establish a tie between them and these "new" creatures.

Of course! I can't believe I didn't mention this since it's pretty much the only thing I thought about while commuting (even had an image in mind). They just have to show up. RETURN OF THE TROLLS!

(http://aazealh.net/Divers/Trolls-silhouettes.jpg) (http://www.skullknight.net/images/ganon.wav)
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Shadax on June 09, 2009, 06:30:17 PM
It's been a while since I was really excited about a new berserk episode, but this one finally has the stuff I love again, and then some!

I do like how Miura stays close to classical representations of mythological creatures. Why go out of your way to come up with some freakish alien design when we all already love the original vision. In the end he does add his own unique style and I really respect him as an illustration artist.

About the people needing Griffith now to stay alive, wouldn't  the oposite be true in a way aswell? (maybe not consciously by Griffith himself) The Idea is behind Griffith ultimatily and in a sense I imagine the idea as powered by humans.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Oburi on June 09, 2009, 06:33:40 PM
God Dammit! I slept in today and I now i'm late for work and I don't have time to read the whole thread!!  :mozgus:

Let me say this episode looks amazing! I'm blown away and I love where Miura is taking this!
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Gaahl on June 09, 2009, 07:07:11 PM
I wonder what this new world will mean to our two branded ones.
Up until now they lived in the interstice, were haunted at night and, even more important, were able to cause
"ripples in the Water", to use Skullknights words.
Some time ago, on the way to Albion, he told Guts that thanks to his brand he had the small chance of making a difference at the junction of time (referring to the reincarnation ceremony).

Now that the worlds have merged, it might be save to assume that there is no longer such thing as an interstice.
Every human, every beast, every demon is now within the same world.
So are Guts and SK's chances of actually hurting the God Hand improved? Or did they just lost that little edge they had thanks to their special status (being branded / a spiritual being to begin with)?
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Xem on June 09, 2009, 07:08:15 PM
Hahaha, the image of the hydra biting one of the unicorns shattered my girlfriends universe. (Huge 'The Last Unicorn' fanatic)

Going on speculation, I'm curious to see if Griffith's apostle army will set out to destroy these astral creatures. Not that I see any real reason for it, outside of the fact that they're possibly powerful creatures who might want to oppose him.

Anyways, unicorns! Awesome. Unicorns being killed! Whoa!

edit: I thought about this earlier, but it seemed a tad cheesy. Does anyone think Miura might include vampires in this world? We know he planned on doing a Dracula story at some point, but I'm not sure if it fits into the world of Berserk or not.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Oburi on June 09, 2009, 07:27:11 PM
edit: I thought about this earlier, but it seemed a tad cheesy. Does anyone think Miura might include vampires in this world? We know he planned on doing a Dracula story at some point, but I'm not sure if it fits into the world of Berserk or not.

I thought the same thing! I don't see how they could be used in the story but I certianly thought abou it before.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Funkmasta Zeph on June 09, 2009, 07:28:57 PM
Call me crazy but I was most fascinated by how it looks like Berserk's geography is the same as ours.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 09, 2009, 07:32:41 PM
It's been a while since I was really excited about a new berserk episode, but this one finally has the stuff I love again, and then some!

I still don't understand how anyone could say that. Even putting aside how individually awesome each recent episode has been, this one is just the continuation of the last few. It wouldn't have happened without them, and they're all part of the same big event. Is it just because we see Guts that you're excited?

in a sense I imagine the idea as powered by humans.

That's quite the oversimplification.

So are Guts and SK's chances of actually hurting the God Hand improved? Or did they just lost that little edge they had thanks to their special status (being branded / a spiritual being to begin with)?

I speculated about this in the last thread. Both are possible, though I'd personally lean towards the God Hand being more vulnerable. At this point though the safe answer is that we don't know.

Going on speculation, I'm curious to see if Griffith's apostle army will set out to destroy these astral creatures. Not that I see any real reason for it, outside of the fact that they're possibly powerful creatures who might want to oppose him.

Who might want to oppose him? They're beasts. Animals. I'm pretty sure all that hydra wants is to eat more unicorns/humans/anything.

edit: I thought about this earlier, but it seemed a tad cheesy. Does anyone think Miura might include vampires in this world? We know he planned on doing a Dracula story at some point, but I'm not sure if it fits into the world of Berserk or not.

He said that he wanted to do a story about Vlad Tepes using the real historical records. Not a Dracula story as in your average vampire story.

Call me crazy but I was most fascinated by how it looks like Berserk's geography is the same as ours.

Honestly I don't think we can see much. What parallels have you found?
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Rhombaad on June 09, 2009, 07:40:10 PM
Yeah, and there's also the fact that physically, while the sirens' appearance does vary in mythology, the harpies have mostly been depicted consistently, and those depictions fit the creatures featured in this episode remarkably well. It should also be noted that there were only three Sirens in the original tale, so that's a discrepancy as well. Lastly, their most important feature has always been their song, which was said to be irresistible, and we don't see any singing going on in this episode.

Well, I'm sold. :guts:
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Judas Priestly on June 09, 2009, 07:41:37 PM
If only the planet is covered in the light, then aliens will be the true heroes of this story.  :ganishka:
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: CowTip on June 09, 2009, 07:42:51 PM
There's an overarching idea in Berserk that thoughts all coalesce somewhere and take on physical form, right? That's what the whole idea of evil is all about from my understanding. So, maybe the appearance unicorns, hydras and the trolls earlier etc. are all originally just a product of human thought? If that's the case, then just about anything could go in this new world.

Sadly enough, my first thought when I saw this episode before running out the door to the dentist was "Oh great, now it's completely plausible for a scene with Guts jumping through a rainbow on the back of a unicorn with pixies and sparkles all around him".
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 09, 2009, 07:45:15 PM
If only the planet is covered in the light, then aliens will be the true heroes of this story.  :ganishka:

Seriously, seeing the planet from space does bring back a few interesting points that are rarely discussed. Is the whole universe made of 3 or more overlapping worlds? What is the reach of the Idea of Evil's power? Is its power limited to one planet? Are there astral beings in space? And so on. Really tricky and awfully speculative topic, though. :guts:

There's an overarching idea in Berserk that thoughts all coalesce somewhere and take on physical form, right? That's what the whole idea of evil is all about from my understanding.

Well it's a bit more complicated than that actually. There's an "ocean" that represents mankind's collective consciousness. Its dark side gave birth to the Idea of Evil, according to episode 83. I wouldn't talk about taking on a "physical form".

So, maybe the appearance unicorns, hydras and the trolls earlier etc. are all originally just a product of human thought? If that's the case, then just about anything could go in this new world.

They're related to human's deep, subsconscious beliefs (see the talk at Flora's mansion in volume 24 for more information). However at this point we can't say with any certainty that they're just a product of human thoughts. Besides I think it'd be a little too simple.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Funkmasta Zeph on June 09, 2009, 07:46:01 PM

Honestly I don't think we can see much. What parallels have you found?

One shot seems to resemble the northern tip of Great Britain and a portion of southern Scandinavia, but that's pretty interprative on my part.

What ISN'T though is the very clear Africa and Madagascar we get in the other page.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Kavaron on June 09, 2009, 07:51:37 PM
Well it's the first time I saw a berserk preview. I just couldn't resist anymore! This whole stuff reminds me of southpark episode where the portal in imaginationland was destroyed and the evil characters attacked and killed the good ones. (alien, minotaur, predator vs unicorns, popey etc)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDUh-_RdT2I  :carcus: :chomp:


Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Black_Devil on June 09, 2009, 07:57:18 PM
Seriously, seeing the planet from space does bring back a few interesting points that are rarely discussed. Is the whole universe made of 3 or more overlapping worlds? What is the reach of the Idea of Evil's power? Is its power limited to one planet? Are there astral beings in space? And so on. Really tricky and awfully speculative topic, though. :guts:

Doesn't its' reach only extend to humans though? :X If not please don't kill me.

Really cool episode, though honestly, I was expecting more demonic figures than Unicorns. >_> Though the hydra's cool, wonder if we'll get any eastern mythology like the Yuki-Onna, or even Hindu mythology, maybe Indra himself? :o

That is.....if Aolsier doesn't show up. *runs out of Aaz and Walter's clutches*
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: MaN on June 09, 2009, 08:10:36 PM
dear God I hope there are no Dragons.... It will be too much like inheritance series and somehow I don't see them fitting in Berserk manga. The dragon mythology is too well-developed in fiction and as Aaz said Miura seems to put a spin on all the 'creatures'. In a way Grunberd's apostle form could be called a dragon and well Guts does carry the 'dragon slayer' so may be.....

I wonder if opening the gates to hell will give Griffith some special status with godhands.. Actually I wonder if godhands like each other? Is there animosity between them. Is there a leader... I guess Void could possibly be the leader but it seems like they are mostly doing their own thing. Surely they must have noticed an event like this.... 
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Griffith on June 09, 2009, 08:18:36 PM
dear God I hope there are no Dragons.... It will be too much like inheritance series and somehow I don't see them fitting in Berserk manga. The dragon mythology is too well-developed in fiction and as Aaz said Miura seems to put a spin on all the 'creatures'. In a way Grunberd's apostle form could be called a dragon and well Guts does carry the 'dragon slayer' so may be.....

You disproved your own point. The well established dragon mythology, in and out of the series, only further suggests we could see such creatures now in the Berserk world alongside the other mythological creatures such as trolls, unicorns, etc. Also, Grunbeld is more than just something that could be called a dragon, he has been called one and has even referred to himself as a dragon. He's a dragon. =)

I wonder if opening the gates to hell will give Griffith some special status with godhands.. Actually I wonder if godhands like each other? Is there animosity between them. Is there a leader... I guess Void could possibly be the leader but it seems like they are mostly doing their own thing. Surely they must have noticed an event like this....

Of course they're aware, this is all according to their design. As for their relationships, it's probably not of much consequence, Slan seemed rather indifferent about the rest while on her own.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Funkmasta Zeph on June 09, 2009, 08:23:47 PM
If I'm right about the geo identification it looks like Midland is around Germany/Poland given the epicenter of the light.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: CowTip on June 09, 2009, 08:27:05 PM
I wonder how the beast will react to this. Assuming that it's not just some crazy part of Guts' psyche, we may see some interesting developments on that front.  :beast:
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 09, 2009, 08:27:20 PM
What ISN'T though is the very clear Africa and Madagascar we get in the other page.

I don't know man, the coast next to the island doesn't really seem to fit to me. It's too flat, not indented enough (sorry, I'm not sure how to say this more clearly). Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if there were some similarities with our world, but I don't expect the Berserk world to be exactly the same. If we're lucky we might be able to see it more clearly with the full episode, but somehow I have the feeling Miura won't reveal too much.

Doesn't its' reach only extend to humans though? :X If not please don't kill me.

We don't know of any limitation it might have.

Really cool episode, though honestly, I was expecting more demonic figures than Unicorns. >_>

It's the astral world of Berserk, not the ninth circle of hell from the Divine Comedy.

dear God I hope there are no Dragons.... It will be too much like inheritance series and somehow I don't see them fitting in Berserk manga. The dragon mythology is too well-developed in fiction and as Aaz said Miura seems to put a spin on all the 'creatures'. In a way Grunberd's apostle form could be called a dragon and well Guts does carry the 'dragon slayer' so may be...

Man, please don't start this whole whining again like the first time trolls appeared. Whatever Miura includes in the story, it's going to fit the universe he created. Grunbeld is unique enough, right? So take it easy.

I wonder if opening the gates to hell will give Griffith some special status with godhands.. Actually I wonder if godhands like each other? Is there animosity between them. Is there a leader... I guess Void could possibly be the leader but it seems like they are mostly doing their own thing. Surely they must have noticed an event like this....

Femto already has a special status: he was incarnated. He's been fulfilling his role ever since, and the current events are the culmination of what he's been doing so far. And I don't think there's any real animosity between them.

If I'm right about the geo identification it looks like Midland is around Germany/Poland given the epicenter of the light.

You probably shouldn't get too excited about this, seriously.

I wonder how the beast will react to this. Assuming that it's not just some crazy part of Guts' psyche

That's what it is as far as we know.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Griffith on June 09, 2009, 08:27:41 PM
If I'm right about the geo identification it looks like Midland is around Germany/Poland given the epicenter of the light.

To be honest, I really couldn't see anything too conclusive in the images, the cloud cover, perhaps intentionally, obscuring things. I'm sure the episode itself will look clearer, but maybe we're just not supposed to know. It'd be cool to see though, either way.

I wonder how the beast will react to this. Assuming that it's not just some crazy part of Guts' psyche, we may see some interesting developments on that front.  :beast:

Well, arguably it is just that, though it's obviously able to manifest itself through the armor, but that's still a reflection of Guts' psyche, not something external or separate from him. In any case, I would think it would either be unaffected, or somehow made stronger or able to manifest itself differently, if anything. I don't think it'll get weaker though. =)
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: CowTip on June 09, 2009, 08:38:17 PM
I sort of figure that that's all the beast is as well, but as these last few episodes have told me, you never can really know with Berserk. If someone would have told me 4 years ago that we'd be seeing unicorns running around, I probably would have laughed in their face.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 09, 2009, 08:43:48 PM
I sort of figure that that's all the beast is as well, but as these last few episodes have told me, you never can really know with Berserk.

Nah, don't say that. Some things are known, some are unknown, but usually we can still make educated guesses even so.

If someone would have told me 4 years ago that we'd be seeing unicorns running around, I probably would have laughed in their face.

We saw unicorns in volume 24, 7 years ago. :slan:
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Funkmasta Zeph on June 09, 2009, 08:45:50 PM
Quote from: Aazealh
I don't know man, the coast next to the island doesn't really seem to fit to me. It's too flat, not indented enough (sorry, I'm not sure how to say this more clearly).

Your saying that the east African coast is indented and can't see it in the picture?
It's hard to tell the exact contours of the Africa landmass because of all the clouds, but it actually looks pretty indented to me (judging by the dark shading between the clouds), and the Madagascar shape is pretty uncanny.

Quote
Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if there were some similarities with our world, but I don't expect the Berserk world to be exactly the same. If we're lucky we might be able to see it more clearly with the full episode, but somehow I have the feeling Miura won't reveal too much.

Oh I'm not saying that due to having our geography that means it will have all the same anything else, that's already self evident for all sorts of reasons.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Black_Devil on June 09, 2009, 08:47:07 PM
dear God I hope there are no Dragons.... It will be too much like inheritance series and somehow I don't see them fitting in Berserk manga. The dragon mythology is too well-developed in fiction and as Aaz said Miura seems to put a spin on all the 'creatures'. In a way Grunberd's apostle form could be called a dragon and well Guts does carry the 'dragon slayer' so may be.....


Could be called a Dragon? Grunberd's whole motif is draconic, even his nickname :schierke:

EDIT: Whoaaaaaaah so many responses in such a short amount of time

And as predicted, Aaz did indeed roast me :P, wasn't trying to sound facetious, just wanted to see actual demons other than apostles(Though would you count trolls?)
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 09, 2009, 08:51:36 PM
Your saying that the east African coast is indented and can't see it in the picture?

I'm saying the 2 east coasts are different around where the island is.

It's hard to tell the exact contours of the Africa landmass because of all the clouds, but it actually looks pretty indented to me (judging by the dark shading between the clouds), and the Madagascar shape is pretty uncanny.

It's not indented like it should be. Short of posting pictures side by side I can't be more precise. As for the island's shape, it's resembling, but that doesn't mean much. The coast of the continent next to it in the picture fits its shape, so we can assume Miura just wanted it to look realistic from that point of view (i.e. the island having been part of the continent in the distant past, before it detached itself from it). Maybe he based its shape on Madagascar's, but that doesn't mean the continent next to it is the same, or that the rest of the world is similar to ours.

Oh I'm not saying that due to having our geography that means it will have all the same anything else, that's already self evident for all sorts of reasons.

I meant that I don't think it's going to be the same geography, even though some parts might look pretty similar.

And as predicted, Aaz did indeed roast me :P, wasn't trying to sound facetious, just wanted to see actual demons other than apostles(Though would you count trolls?)

My point is that the spiritual world doesn't just amount to "demons". Anyway be patient, I'm sure we'll see many more spiritual creatures in the future.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: gh-zodd on June 09, 2009, 09:22:53 PM
Eclipse ceremonies on other planets?   :isidro:

Poor unicorns, but haven't they always had to deal with the hydra threat?  I am assuming that hydras and unicorns are existing in the same layer even before the worlds merge.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 09, 2009, 09:28:54 PM
Poor unicorns, but haven't they always had to deal with the hydra threat?  I am assuming that hydras and unicorns are existing on the same layer even before the worlds merge.

That is a good question actually. It could have been the natural course of things in the astral world, just like both species might have just met for the first time. They probably lived on the same layer of the astral world, but the question is: did they live in the same area? Think of the Qliphoth and how only evil creatures dwelled there.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Mage on June 09, 2009, 09:33:36 PM
Well that's pretty interesting.  If that's what's happening on land, wonder what's going on at sea :troll:
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 09, 2009, 09:49:41 PM
Well that's pretty interesting.  If that's what's happening on land, wonder what's going on at sea :troll:

First mermaids, then a scary monster. Or vice versa. :guts:
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: KazigluBey on June 09, 2009, 09:51:52 PM
In an age of Darkness with Unicorns running around, it's only a matter of time until...


(http://i40.tinypic.com/2njycsy.jpg)
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Black_Devil on June 10, 2009, 12:30:19 AM
That is a good question actually. It could have been the natural course of things in the astral world, just like both species might have just met for the first time. They probably lived on the same layer of the astral world, but the question is: did they live in the same area? Think of the Qliphoth and how only evil creatures dwelled there.

But wasn't the Qliphoth created by Slan? Or did she just take residence there? If the former, would you count that as a natural occurance in the astral world?
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: jackson_hurley on June 10, 2009, 12:52:53 AM
wow so many posts since i came back from work!

Unicorns eh?! Awesome!  :guts:

Anyways, I'm really excited about this new episode. I had a funny thought(even though I know it's not true at all), what if the unicorns were normal horses before the light touched them? haha

The head of the hydra reminded me some old version of the lizard in spider-man, I like on Miura did his hydra.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Griffith on June 10, 2009, 01:25:36 AM
But wasn't the Qliphoth created by Slan? Or did she just take residence there? If the former, would you count that as a natural occurance in the spiritual world?

It's the latter, though she didn't really take residence there either, other than during the time we actually saw her, as far as we know, she was just making an appearance there.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: NightCrawler on June 10, 2009, 01:35:04 AM
The manga is pretty much in epic-movie-mode right now.

Unfortunately.


Unicorns Miura? Fuckin seriously?
Fantasy nerds rejoice! The worlds have merged! More magic, more creatures, more trading cards! What a mess... The small picture that is. Cause i hope the big one is more ingenious.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: KazigluBey on June 10, 2009, 01:40:53 AM
Unfortunately.


Unicorns Miura? Fuckin seriously?
Fantasy nerds rejoice! The worlds have merged! More magic, more creatures, more trading cards! What a mess... The small picture that is. Cause i hope the big one is more ingenious.

I was a little disappointed with this as well. I thought he might take a little more artistic license and come up with something different than the traditional mythical creatures, given he did such a great job with the Apostles.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: TheBranded1 on June 10, 2009, 01:55:50 AM

I like the fact we see these spiritual creatures since the worlds are merging. Some may seem cheesy to some of you guys, but it's ok if you don't like it. You are entitle not to like some parts of the manga. I"ll just keep enjoying the episodes as they come out and see where Miura takes this current events.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Walter on June 10, 2009, 02:07:31 AM
Unfortunately.


Unicorns Miura? Fuckin seriously?
Fantasy nerds rejoice! The worlds have merged! More magic, more creatures, more trading cards! What a mess... The small picture that is. Cause i hope the big one is more ingenious.
Negative Nancys like you complained about magic when it made its appearance in the series too. They had no faith.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Griffith on June 10, 2009, 02:24:38 AM
Unfortunately.


Unicorns Miura? Fuckin seriously?
Fantasy nerds rejoice! The worlds have merged! More magic, more creatures, more trading cards! What a mess... The small picture that is. Cause i hope the big one is more ingenious.

Well, you have to make an effort to think about the big picture first, and the actual point and purpose behind these mythological or "fantasy" creatures. I think it's safe to say Miura could make up as many random creatures as he wants, and will continue to, but he's intentionally tying into a longstanding mythology for a reason here, not exploiting it for lack of creativity. No offense, but it sounds like that problem is on your end. Don't let a limited experience with these things, in cartoons or big budget fantasy movies, narrow your scope in how you see this.

I was a little disappointed with this as well. I thought he might take a little more artistic license and come up with something different than the traditional mythical creatures, given he did such a great job with the Apostles.

Again, the theme has been famous mythological creatures somehow appearing in the real world, he can't very well tie that into the story, most importantly in the audiences mind, if he makes up more original monsters to stand in for these creatures, especially when there's already plenty of original creations present. Think of how it would change your perception, complaints aside, they'd just be more Berserk monsters, we wouldn't think of them as "mythological" even if they were known as such to the characters in the story.

I like the fact we see these spiritual creatures since the worlds are merging. Some may seem cheesy to some of you guys, but it's ok if you don't like it. You are entitle not to like some parts of the manga. I"ll just keep enjoying the episodes as they come out and see where Miura takes this current events.

That's probably the best attitude of all of us. Still, I don't like people just lazily bashing things from a very limited black and white point of view. If they don't like it, they can argue why and back it up.

Negative Nancys like you complained about magic when it made its appearance in the series too. They had no faith.

Well, to be perfectly fair, so did you, me, and Cronus. :griffnotevil:
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: IgnusDei on June 10, 2009, 02:29:33 AM
Holy shit, Berserk just got full blown high-fantasy!
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Walter on June 10, 2009, 02:32:09 AM
Well, to be perfectly fair, so did you, me, and Cronus. :griffnotevil:
:wags finger: Skepticism and lack of faith are two different things.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: KazigluBey on June 10, 2009, 02:32:20 AM
He did a good job with his interpretation of trolls, as well as making elves more like fairy's than like what you'd see in LOTR. I like the design concept variations, but when you have a unicorn, it's just a unicorn and immediately it felt like it was completely out of place. Just have to wait and see what part they have to play. If they can be written into something interesting then I'll retract my statement. ;)
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Walter on June 10, 2009, 02:34:24 AM
He did a good job with his interpretation of trolls, as well as making elves more like fairy's than like what you'd see in LOTR. I like the design concept variations, but when you have a unicorn, it's just a unicorn and immediately it felt like it was completely out of place. Just have to wait and see what part they have to play. If they can be written into something interesting then I'll retract my statement. ;)
I don't know what you people are expecting of the unicorns. A unicorn arc? A unicorn flashback telling the tale of their people? It's just a mythical creature that of course looks out of place, because it IS out of place in the Berserk world. It's so freshly out of place it's being devoured by a hydra on Old McDonald's crops.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: KazigluBey on June 10, 2009, 02:40:06 AM
I don't know what you people are expecting of the unicorns. A unicorn arc? A unicorn flashback telling the tale of their people? It's just a mythical creature that of course looks out of place, because it IS out of place in the Berserk world. It's so freshly out of place it's being devoured by a hydra on Old McDonald's crops.

Out of place in a story like the one in Berserk. The Kushan creatures were great, something I didn't expect that worked great and was entertaining. Maybe that's the only time we'll see the Unicorns, who knows. All I can say is my first reaction was wtf?
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: TheBranded1 on June 10, 2009, 02:43:39 AM
Out of place in a story like the one in Berserk. The Kushan creatures were great, something I didn't expect that worked great and was entertaining. Maybe that's the only time we'll see the Unicorns, who knows. All I can say is my first reaction was wtf?

And I was WTF as well, but in a good way. I was like oh a unicorn, and then they became a buffet for the hydra, it was a great wtf moment. :guts:
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Walter on June 10, 2009, 02:44:29 AM
Out of place in a story like the one in Berserk.
If it were a black, EEEEEVIL unicorn, would that have met your standard for what should or shouldn't be in the Berserk world? What if it's secretly thinking bad thoughts? Like sacrificing its fellow unicorn friends?

And yeah, to continue with Branded's post, I think Miura made it clear the next panel after the unicorns introduction what their role would be -- food for more violent creatures in this new chaotic world. It's like the cover of a metal album. How can you not dig this?!
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: KazigluBey on June 10, 2009, 02:51:29 AM
If it were a black, EEEEEVIL unicorn, would that have met your standard for what should or shouldn't be in the Berserk world? What if it's secretly thinking bad thoughts? Like sacrificing its fellow unicorn friends?

Spare me the sarcasm. If you don't like opposing opinions then why bother replying? Without em' it's just a circle jerk.

Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Walter on June 10, 2009, 02:53:13 AM
It's less that I don't like them and more that I'm baffled by this particular one. I mean, Zodd's a hybrid of mythological creatures, but he's ok with fans.

See my updated post above.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: MaN on June 10, 2009, 02:53:53 AM
Well in a way all the apostles are non-traditional mythical creatures that Miura created so if he has to show the merging of worlds without much dialogue then using traditional mythical creatures i.e. unicorns, hydra etc. illustrates the point better. I think.

Although I don't know why but I assumed that everything in the other world was inherently evil i.e. hydra. Seeing poor pretty unicorns getting gobbled up makes it seems that either it is a merging of more than one world or that in the 'other' world there too exist the hunters and hunted. Unless we see the unicorns busting out into a mean monster form.... that would be freakin awesome.

We sort of have an idea that everyone including guts and co. are enveloped by the light but I wonder what happened to all the apostles and SK, Daiba etc. who were at the epicenter... Also somehow after encountering Uber-Ganishka, mini ganishkas and all the apostles in the last battle even the fierce hydra seems a little tame...
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: KazigluBey on June 10, 2009, 02:58:24 AM
It's less that I don't like them and more that I'm baffled by this particular one. I mean, Zodd's a hybrid of mythological creatures, but he's ok with fans.

See my updated post above.

I know it's nitpicking. Right, he's a hybrid, so he has something different about him than if he were to be a minotaur or something like that. I guess with creatures that are unique creations you don't have previous associations in mind that can dictate your reaction, like with Unicorns. I've always liked fantasy related stuff (picture of Darkness in prior post being evidence of this) so I associate more well known creatures with mythology from our own world, not that of a fantasy world created in modern times. I see Zodd and I haven't come across anything like that before so it peaks my interest more.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Walter on June 10, 2009, 03:12:20 AM
Although I don't know why but I assumed that everything in the other world was inherently evil i.e. hydra.
Well, that's not the case. Elves are residents of the spiritual world too. They aren't evil.

Quote
Seeing poor pretty unicorns getting gobbled up makes it seems that either it is a merging of more than one world or that in the 'other' world there too exist the hunters and hunted.
To clear up this confusion, let me quote Schierke in vol 25 as she was explaining the Qliphoth:

"The vast extent of the astral world comprises many regions, each with its own characteristic atmosphere."
"Ethereal bodies tend to gravitate toward ods of the same nature. Warm ods would be drawn toward warmth..." etc. etc.

In layman's terms: bad guys live in a different region than good guys. As I said earlier in the thread, the Hydra and the Unicorn were probably in different regions, but were ended up near each other with the merging of worlds.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: SiRAuron on June 10, 2009, 03:20:26 AM
I think it's a good thing to see something less big and mean like a unicorn.  Until now, apart from the elves, all other monsters/creatures have been attacking humans.  It shows that not -everything- is out to eat humans.  I mean, the world isn't all darkness, well, at least it wasn't until now.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: KazigluBey on June 10, 2009, 03:25:22 AM
I could picture the Apostles sitting around base camp with a unicorn cooking on the rotisserie. 
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Vampire_Hunter_Bob on June 10, 2009, 03:36:52 AM
I could picture the Apostles sitting around base camp with a unicorn cooking on the rotisserie. 

I'm glad too see you're turning around.

Anyways, most of this talk is just OLD. It's been done to death. Did Miura let us down with the trolls? No. Guys, just wait for the return of the chosen one... :schnoz:.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: NightCrawler on June 10, 2009, 03:40:40 AM
Well, you have to make an effort to think about the big picture first, and the actual point and purpose behind these mythological or "fantasy" creatures. I think it's safe to say Miura could make up as many random creatures as he wants, and will continue to, but he's intentionally tying into a longstanding mythology for a reason here, not exploiting it for lack of creativity. No offense, but it sounds like that problem is on your end. Don't let a limited experience with these things, in cartoons or big budget fantasy movies, narrow your scope in how you see this.

Again, the theme has been famous mythological creatures somehow appearing in the real world, he can't very well tie that into the story, most importantly in the audiences mind, if he makes up more original monsters to stand in for these creatures, especially when there's already plenty of original creations present. Think of how it would change your perception, complaints aside, they'd just be more Berserk monsters, we wouldn't think of them as "mythological" even if they were known as such to the characters in the story.

Yes, it's a problem on my end, i agree that i can't be objective when magic and generic fantasy is involved. I have complained before about the overuse of those themes in Berserk. I prefer stuff more grounded in reality. Like the chapter of lost children. It's still dark fantasy, but more in a Robert E. Howard vein.
The lighter themes (kiddie stuff) in Berserk used to piss me off. But now i just shrug it off. Isidro is just the same character since... ever! The witch had some evolution but i still can't take that character serious, she's so out of place. It was like BAM! Here's a kid who's a witch with a robe and a pointy hat. After all you've been through while reading the series, how are you suppose to believe in a character like that in the world of Berserk?
So in conclusion, i can't really connect with the story when there's ALOT of fantasy involved. It does nothing for me, nor in fights, whenever. I'm not that big of a nerd or fanboy. I believe that fantasy produces a bigger inpact, and it's more ominous, when it's used in moderation, like we've seen so effectively in the past.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: KazigluBey on June 10, 2009, 03:45:24 AM
I'm glad too see you're turning around.

Anyways, most of this talk is just OLD. It's been done to death. Did Miura let us down with the trolls? No. Guys, just wait for the return of the chosen one... :schnoz:.

All that needs to be said has been said, now lets bring on the shocked faces of the Griffith devotees as they realize he isn't the savior they hoped for and all hell breaks loose.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Funkmasta Zeph on June 10, 2009, 04:23:22 AM
Quote from: NightCrawler
The lighter themes (kiddie stuff) in Berserk used to piss me off.


I'm amused that you associate "lighter stuff" with being inately "kiddie".

Quote
The witch had some evolution but i still can't take that character serious, she's so out of place. It was like BAM! Here's a kid who's a witch with a robe and a pointy hat.

I don't get what's out of place, or how "sudden" you seem to think her appearance was.
Quote
After all you've been through while reading the series, how are you suppose to believe in a character like that in the world of Berserk?

From the moment Puck existed. In other words, Chapter One.

Quote
So in conclusion, i can't really connect with the story when there's ALOT of fantasy involved. It does nothing for me, nor in fights, whenever. I'm not that big of a nerd or fanboy.

Because clearly you have to be a nerd or fanboy to not be bothered by these things.
It sounds like your issue isn't actually with these elements but with some silly sense of being afraid to enjoy them.

Quote
I believe that fantasy produces a bigger inpact, and it's more ominous, when it's used in moderation, like we've seen so effectively in the past.

Exactly how do you make a merging of planes into a moderate thing.
I don't think you understand how dramatic an event this is, how would a massive semi-apocalyptic event be ominous.
It's supposed to be over the top.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Griffith on June 10, 2009, 04:32:17 AM
Yes, it's a problem on my end, i agree that i can't be objective when magic and generic fantasy is involved.

Well, at least we're actually discussing it now, I appreciate that.
 
I have complained before about the overuse of those themes in Berserk. I prefer stuff more grounded in reality. Like the chapter of lost children. It's still dark fantasy, but more in a Robert E. Howard vein.

That's pretty subjective in itself, I've read a lot of Howard, and I think much of the material in the last 10 volumes; characters, creatures, and events, would fit nicely in Howard's world, right up to the hydra devouring a unicorn. You guys are acting like it's the fucking Care Bears riding unicorns with rainbows out their ass or something. =)

The lighter themes (kiddie stuff) in Berserk used to piss me off. But now i just shrug it off. Isidro is just the same character since... ever! The witch had some evolution but i still can't take that character serious, she's so out of place. It was like BAM! Here's a kid who's a witch with a robe and a pointy hat. After all you've been through while reading the series, how are you suppose to believe in a character like that in the world of Berserk?

Yeah, but those lighter themes have always been present, and if they're more present now, it's to offset a lot of darker material that, naturally, nobody is complaining about. Isidro is what he is, and I don't mind him being a kid. As for Schierke and her physical appearance, that was a challenge, but I don't mind that challenge either (it's a ballsy move by Miura on one hand), and superficiality aside, I really like her character, it's been over 10 volumes now, and at some point you just have to get over it. If it was a challenge then, it isn't anymore.

So in conclusion, i can't really connect with the story when there's ALOT of fantasy involved. It does nothing for me, nor in fights, whenever.
I believe that fantasy produces a bigger inpact, and it's more ominous, when it's used in moderation, like we've seen so effectively in the past.

The tragedy here to me though is that this is by no means just more of the lazy generic fantasy that's jaded you, this is going back to the well of folklore and mythology and doing it right for the most part, or at least it's Miura seizing it and doing it his own way. You of all people should embrace that, even if you might have preferred it stay on a smaller scale. I don't think we're being deprived of an intimate story though; it's my same point really with the fantasy creatures, it's not like were not also getting original designs still. I don't know, it seems like since we're getting it both ways in Berserk, people can just complain about everything. It's not like a unicorn is less down to earth than a pixie, or even most Apostle designs, which to me are way more outlandish and fantastical than a simple horse with a horn (seriously, compare these unicorns to the Apostles in volume 13, objectively, which look more grounded in reality?). Anyway, I usually don't even appreciate a volume until we're a few more passed it, but in the case of these last three episodes, I really don't see what's to complain about as of yet, unless you're nitpicking or assuming the worst.

Personally, I don't think the rampaging Hydra foreshadows "lighter themes." :zodd:

I'm not that big of a nerd or fanboy.

Ha, try explaining that to someone who doesn't read Berserk. :ganishka:

All that needs to be said has been said, now lets bring on the shocked faces of the Griffith devotees as they realize he isn't the savior they hoped for and all hell breaks loose.

Well, you could have responded to my thoughtful reply before. :griffnotevil:
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: KazigluBey on June 10, 2009, 04:42:10 AM


Again, the theme has been famous mythological creatures somehow appearing in the real world, he can't very well tie that into the story, most importantly in the audiences mind, if he makes up more original monsters to stand in for these creatures, especially when there's already plenty of original creations present. Think of how it would change your perception, complaints aside, they'd just be more Berserk monsters, we wouldn't think of them as "mythological" even if they were known as such to the characters in the story.


I guess I wasn't aware of any point in the story where the theme was pointed out, other than coincidences. Any creature can become mythical if there is a legend or mythology to go with them which humans are aware of and that have become part of their culture.  
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: pjboom on June 10, 2009, 04:43:56 AM
I can only say one thing, Beautifull.
20 years an this manga is continuosly getting better.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Death May Die on June 10, 2009, 04:51:23 AM
For the people over-reacting IMO about the fantasy themes, its just a few creatures, give it a chance. You might find something more to your liking down the path. I really liked the hyrda. I'm wondering what sea monsters will be lurking now. I really hope Elfhelm isn't Elf-hell at this point.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: karwat on June 10, 2009, 04:58:21 AM
hey guys great episode
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 10, 2009, 04:59:17 AM
But wasn't the Qliphoth created by Slan? Or did she just take residence there? If the former, would you count that as a natural occurance in the spiritual world?

She kind of claims the place for her own by calling it her womb, but no, it's not implied that she created it. Nor did she really take residence there, as Griff pointed out.

what if the unicorns were normal horses before the light touched them? haha

I don't think that's the case. By all means unicorns aren't very different from horses though.

Unicorns Miura? Fuckin seriously?
Fantasy nerds rejoice! The worlds have merged! More magic, more creatures, more trading cards! What a mess... The small picture that is. Cause i hope the big one is more ingenious.

Narrow-minded dimwits like you have been decrying any kind of meaningful change in Berserk since pretty much forever, so you'll forgive me if I laugh in your face here. As far as your posts on this forum show, you've never been able to see anything more than the smallest possible picture in every circumstance ever.

Fantasy nerds rejoice you say? No shit Sherlock, Berserk is a fantasy manga, haven't you noticed? That's how it's always been advertised and marketed. It's dark fantasy, but it's fantasy anyway. There have been cute little elves with magic healing powder in Berserk since volume 1. I think you're way overdue to get over it.

And really, why are you acting all surprised? I mean we'd had this coming for many years now. Did you doubt it would happen? Do you still think the events in Enoch didn't bring anything good to the story? If so, I pity you. You talk as if being increasingly diversified and encompassing traditional mythology inside its scope didn't make Berserk even greater than it would be if that wasn't the case. You're wrong. It does make Berserk greater, and not just that, but it lends it credibility as a coherent world.

So we've been shown unicorns in this episode. And what happened to the unicorns? They were attacked and some of them were eaten by a hydra. That's in itself a pretty good reason to have unicorns as far as I am concerned. They're just horses with a horn, but they make for a good fantastical prey to the fantastical predator that is the hydra while emphasizing that the shit has hit the fan: the astral and corporeal worlds have merged. It takes a lot of small-mindedness not to realize this simple fact.

I was a little disappointed with this as well. I thought he might take a little more artistic license and come up with something different than the traditional mythical creatures, given he did such a great job with the Apostles.

Why reinvent the wheel for a detail when you can pay a little homage to the genre instead? You're really missing the point if you think this can be compared to apostles. Should have Miura taken "a little more artistic license" when drawing horses as well? You know, because standard horses are so passé, I don't want them in my story. In fact I say no creature he draws should resemble anything ever seen before! :schierke:

He did a good job with his interpretation of trolls, as well as making elves more like fairy's than like what you'd see in LOTR.

Only your ignorance prevents you from realizing that Miura's elves are pretty faithful to their description in traditional folklore. Tolkien's not the ultimate reference when it comes to legends and mythology, sorry to tell you.

I like the design concept variations, but when you have a unicorn, it's just a unicorn and immediately it felt like it was completely out of place. Just have to wait and see what part they have to play.

How about the part of being eaten by a hydra? Unicorns are scared, pursued by a hydra, then we see that it inadvertently leads it to a human village. It shows that humans are brutally put into contact with spiritual creatures, good and bad alike, and that they're going to have a hard time dealing with it.

Out of place in a story like the one in Berserk. The Kushan creatures were great, something I didn't expect that worked great and was entertaining. Maybe that's the only time we'll see the Unicorns, who knows. All I can say is my first reaction was wtf?

Because you didn't know the mythology tying to the other creatures doesn't mean they were more or less at their place than unicorns. You should keep in mind that your ignorance and/or expectations are very relative and don't make for very good points in a discussion like this very one. Besides, I think you should try to look at things from a more general point of view. Those unicorns are just a drop of water in the ocean that is the Berserk world. They're a detail. Like I said earlier, what if it had been horses eaten by the hydra? I bet you wouldn't have cared.

Spare me the sarcasm. If you don't like opposing opinions then why bother replying? Without em' it's just a circle jerk.

What you said deserved sarcasm. And replying to posts and sometimes disagreeing with other people is what a forum's all about. If you don't like being contradicted then don't bother posting on forums.

I mean, Zodd's a hybrid of mythological creatures, but he's ok with fans.

He's a hybrid of various animals, but I actually wouldn't say that he's a mix of various mythological creatures.

Well in a way all the apostles are non-traditional mythical creatures that Miura created so if he has to show the merging of worlds without much dialogue then using traditional mythical creatures i.e. unicorns, hydra etc. illustrates the point better. I think.

Yeah. And just like there's no need for him to design exotic creatures to replace common horses or birds or cattle, there's no need for him to create something to serve as prey to the monsters while there's a full repertoire of traditional creatures he can use. People seem to forget that Berserk is a manga, it's from Japan, and unicorns are as exotic to Japanese people as a Makara would be to the average Westerner.

Although I don't know why but I assumed that everything in the other world was inherently evil i.e. hydra.

Of course not. For some reason a lot of people don't seem to be getting that. The spiritual world is very vast and filled with all kinds of creatures, good and bad. Just like the corporeal world. It was all explained in volume 24. It's definitely not just ALL EVIL, and the light covering the world isn't the GATES OF HELL opening up (what you said earlier...).

General notice to everyone: you should expect to see more good-natured creatures in the future, so try not to pop a vessel next time it happens.

We sort of have an idea that everyone including guts and co. are enveloped by the light but I wonder what happened to all the apostles and SK, Daiba etc. who were at the epicenter...

What's interesting to wonder is more what happened to those that were already in the spiritual world (apostles, SK).

Also somehow after encountering Uber-Ganishka, mini ganishkas and all the apostles in the last battle even the fierce hydra seems a little tame...

Well at the core the hydra seems to be just an animal. Like a lion or a crocodile. It's not meant to be very impressive. And really, there aren't many things that can compare to Ganishka, all things considered.

I've always liked fantasy related stuff (picture of Darkness in prior post being evidence of this) so I associate more well known creatures with mythology from our own world, not that of a fantasy world created in modern times. I see Zodd and I haven't come across anything like that before so it peaks my interest more.

Well like I said earlier, keep in mind that what's well-known and familiar to you isn't necessarily to other people. I'm sure people from India would think differently than you do about the Pishacha, Makara, Kundalini and the like.

I think it's a good thing to see something less big and mean like a unicorn.  Until now, apart from the elves, all other monsters/creatures have been attacking humans.  It shows that not -everything- is out to eat humans.  I mean, the world isn't all darkness, well, at least it wasn't until now.

Very good point. The astral world isn't the SUPER EVIL world. It houses good and bad entities alike. Honestly, it's really nothing special that unicorns would be around (not to mention that it isn't the first time we see them, as has already been said several times in this thread). I'm repeating myself but people should expect more "good" creatures to show up.

I could picture the Apostles sitting around base camp with a unicorn cooking on the rotisserie.

Now that's the spirit! And that isn't just how it will be. That's how it is already. They became food for a monster in the very scene that introduced them.

I have complained before about the overuse of those themes in Berserk.

No, you've complained about their use. Not overuse, just plain use.

I prefer stuff more grounded in reality. Like the chapter of lost children. It's still dark fantasy, but more in a Robert E. Howard vein.

And yet even then there was Puck, there were elves and it was all about a fairytale. The bad guy was a little girl. That's not very manly.

The lighter themes (kiddie stuff)

Saying this isn't just stupid, it's also a flagrant example of your immaturity. Lighter themes aren't "kiddie stuff". Just like video games in which you don't shed gallons of blood aren't "kiddie games". That's the mentality of a frustrated 14 year old that's trying to sound like he's a badass grown-up.

But now i just shrug it off. Isidro is just the same character since... ever!

Isidro has been through quite a lot of character development. He's a brash kid, but why is that a problem?

The witch had some evolution but i still can't take that character serious, she's so out of place. It was like BAM! Here's a kid who's a witch with a robe and a pointy hat. After all you've been through while reading the series, how are you suppose to believe in a character like that in the world of Berserk?

I'd excuse that reaction if you'd just read episode 186. But not now. Indeed, have all you've been through while reading the series, how can you say something like that?

So in conclusion, i can't really connect with the story when there's ALOT of fantasy involved. It does nothing for me, nor in fights, whenever. I'm not that big of a nerd or fanboy. I believe that fantasy produces a bigger inpact, and it's more ominous, when it's used in moderation, like we've seen so effectively in the past.

There's always been a lot of fantasy involved with Berserk. I think your problem is that you don't like when things are too colorful. Kind of like the people whining that Diablo III's not in shades of grey. By the way, sorry to tell you but you're a huge fucking nerd and a huge fucking fanboy from what I've seen of you. Whether you like fantasy or not is irrelevant to that fact.

Anyway, while there's always been lots of fantasy, what's ironical when reading your post is that paradoxically, the "lighter themes" you complain about are used very moderately. But apparently 3 shots of a bunch of a unicorns being devoured by a hydra is just too much for you. What can I say to that? Maybe you should read another series man, I don't know.

All that needs to be said has been said, now lets bring on the shocked faces of the Griffith devotees as they realize he isn't the savior they hoped for and all hell breaks loose.

Haha, it might still be a while before that happens. :slan: He just defeated the ultimate monster for the sake of the people after all, he's a godsent hero! :griffnotevil:
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Griffith on June 10, 2009, 05:05:49 AM
I guess I wasn't aware of any point in the story where the theme was pointed out, other than coincidences.

It's pretty much been ever-present since the first pages of the Millennium Falcon arc. Specific important passages and references can be found in episodes 179, 186, 195, 201 (unicorns first established =), and 215 to name a few.

Any creature can become mythical if there is a legend or mythology to go with them which humans are aware of and that have become part of their culture.

Exactly, and monsters Miura makes up aren't part of our culture or collective consciousness.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Rhombaad on June 10, 2009, 05:09:09 AM
Thanks, Karwat! This episode was so full of two-page epicness that it didn't even require dialogue (well, aside from the farmer's "Uwaaaaaaaah!"). :guts:
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: KazigluBey on June 10, 2009, 05:09:22 AM
It's pretty much been ever-present since the first pages of the Millennium Falcon arc. Specific important passages and references can be found in episodes 179, 186, 195, 201 (unicorns first established =), and 215 to name a few.

Exactly, and monsters Miura makes up aren't part of out culture or collective consciousness.

Alright I'll refresh my memory.

They might not be part of ours but to me seeing something new is more appealing than something I'm used to. They only have to be part of the collective consciousness of the humans in the Berserk world in order to have legitimacy. That's one of the perks of being a storyteller, you can set the rules.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: pjboom on June 10, 2009, 05:15:44 AM
If there's an Hydra, there must be a Dragon, so we will finaly see Godo's dream realized and if the Dragonslayer honours it's name (I mean a real dragon, Grunbeld was more like a dragonshaped rock to me).
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Griffith on June 10, 2009, 05:24:31 AM
For those pining for the good ol' days, that hydra looks like it's straight out of volume 1, in a good way! :guts:

Alright I'll refresh my memory.

Cool, I can't keep half this shit straight unless I do that every once in a while. I hope it gives some more purpose to all this, so it doesn't seem arbitrary or like a raw deal.

They might not be part of ours but to me seeing something new is more appealing than something I'm used to.

Well, we're still getting the best of both worlds, we just saw a slew of new Apostles, and the classic creatures are Miura's own take. Even those unicorns are realistic and down to earth looking, especially when they're being eaten alive. =)

They only have to be part of the collective consciousness of the humans in the Berserk world in order to have legitimacy. That's one of the perks of being a storyteller, you can set the rules.

Yeah, but I think it's important they be part of ours as well, I'm reluctant to say it's a bit metafictional, but... anyway, the problem with using original Miura creatures that way is they would reside in the same place in our minds as Apostles, the God Hand, and Skull Knight. Even though in the story they'd be identified as part of their folklore, it wouldn't be the same as it is being from our own folklore as well, so that we identify with it from that deeper well of knowlege, rather than it falling under the umbrella of another kind of Miura creature.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Rhombaad on June 10, 2009, 05:28:28 AM
For those pining for the good ol' days, that hydra looks like it's straight out of volume 1, in a good way! :guts:

No kidding, I love Miura's take on it. Seeing those farmers running away, all I could think of was the chorus of Iron Maiden's "Run to the Hills" playing in the background. Can't wait to see what else pops up in the next episode.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: KazigluBey on June 10, 2009, 05:39:30 AM
No kidding, I love Miura's take on it. Seeing those farmers running away, all I could think of was the chorus of Iron Maiden's "Run for the Hills" playing in the background. Can't wait to see what else pops up in the next episode.

You mean "Run to the hills". ;)
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Rhombaad on June 10, 2009, 06:14:06 AM
You mean "Run to the hills". ;)

Whoops, that I do. :ganishka:
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Death May Die on June 10, 2009, 06:21:58 AM
I don't see a break for Guts anytime soon. Miura is entirely throwing "the world" against Guts. The only thing left as this point and for Griffith to turn the kingdom people against him. Thats just off the top of my head.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Oburi on June 10, 2009, 07:17:19 AM
Amazing episode!

Stop complaining about the unicorns already. This is just the tip of the iceberg. The flood gates have opened for all sorts of mythological creatures. I can't believe anyone would complain about this. Don't you trust Miura enough at this point? You stuck it out after an annoying elf like Puck was introduced in volume one, so whats the problem with some unicorns getting chased around by a hydra? Like Walter said it's not like the unicorns are going to be the focus of the next few chapters.

Quote
They might not be part of ours but to me seeing something new is more appealing than something I'm used to. They only have to be part of the collective consciousness of the humans in the Berserk world in order to have legitimacy. That's one of the perks of being a storyteller, you can set the rules.


Wow. It's not like he's using these creatures out of lack of creativity. He still is setting the rules, and right now the rule is unicorns along with what I'm guessing will be countless of other creatures that we know and recognize have appeared since the worlds merged. I think this is awesome, and it's just a taste of all the awesomeness that is to come. There is so much Miura could do at this point. And just let me say this too, the unicorns as they are look fucking great. Miura draws them so beautifully and realistic. Like it was said before, they are not jumping over rainbows or anything. This is the only way unicorns could ever work in a story and be cool.

Yes, it's a problem on my end, i agree that i can't be objective when magic and generic fantasy is involved. I have complained before about the overuse of those themes in Berserk. I prefer stuff more grounded in reality. Like the chapter of lost children. It's still dark fantasy, but more in a Robert E. Howard vein.
The lighter themes (kiddie stuff) in Berserk used to piss me off. But now i just shrug it off. Isidro is just the same character since... ever!
So in conclusion, i can't really connect with the story when there's ALOT of fantasy involved. It does nothing for me, nor in fights, whenever. I'm not that big of a nerd or fanboy. I believe that fantasy produces a bigger impact, and it's more ominous, when it's used in moderation, like we've seen so effectively in the past.

Come on man, really? Personally I don't know much about mythology, I never really got into it. Clash of the Titans was the closest I ever came to having any interest in it. So am I a fanboy or nerd for loving the direction Berserk is taking? I don't think so. I'm not going to go and buy a book on mythological creatures now, I just get what Miura is doing.

And i can answer this question...

Quote
The witch had some evolution but i still can't take that character serious, she's so out of place. It was like BAM! Here's a kid who's a witch with a robe and a pointy hat. After all you've been through while reading the series, how are you suppose to believe in a character like that in the world of Berserk?

How? the same way Guts and company did. When they first ran into each other even Isidro was making fun of her pointy hat because she was, in fact, out of place, but thats the point. She IS out of place. Thats part of the story. And as a character she has grown and proven herself to Guts. Miura isn't just throwing shit in for no other reason than him being a fanboy of mythology himself. Is that what your suggesting? I'm starting to think you don't even understand some of the characters at all.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 10, 2009, 07:40:27 AM
They might not be part of ours but to me seeing something new is more appealing than something I'm used to.

Same for everybody. But I have to point out that personally, you know, I'm not really "used" to unicorns. Not that I'm calling you a sissy that played with girls' toys as a kid, but you know... :ganishka: (I'm just kidding, please don't be offended)

If there's an Hydra, there must be a Dragon, so we will finaly see Godo's dream realized and if the Dragonslayer honours it's name (I mean a real dragon, Grunbeld was more like a dragonshaped rock to me).

Godot didn't dream of his sword killing a dragon... He didn't believe dragons even existed.

I don't see a break for Guts anytime soon. Miura is entirely throwing "the world" against Guts. The only thing left as this point and for Griffith to turn the kingdom people against him. Thats just off the top of my head.

Well Guts and his friends are going to arrive at Elfhelm soon, and they'll likely get quite the break once they're there. As for setting the people of Midland against Guts, not only does that not make much sense, but it's not something Griffith would do considering his current state of mind.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Nosferatubeast on June 10, 2009, 07:55:22 AM
At what point in this manga are the good guys going to win?  I thought maybe when Miura introduced witches to the scene, Guts could form an army of his own to battle Griffith with...nope.  Miura killed them off (well most of them as it's implied so far).  Miura brings Griffith back to Earth in human-ish form.  I can see Guts possibly fending off some of the Apostles and beheading Griffith with the new and improved shadow Dragonslayer...nope.  Griffith still has God-Hand powers and he knows everything as Skully just found out.  Now Earth is...well everyones seen the episode.  Guts should just quit and retire somewhere.  I don't know if Miura even wants the good guys to win or not.  If so, he's got a hell of a way of showing it.  Right now Evil x 1,000>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Good.  I'm not ragging the manga in anyway (just ranting), I just want Guts to have a happy ending.  For the last ten years of me following Berserk, I'm just not seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.  Shit just keeps getting worse and worse.  Eh, I guess I'm just feeling as helpless as the characters in Berserk since I'm so attached to this masterpiece.  end rant.        
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Griffith on June 10, 2009, 08:25:40 AM
I'm just not seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.

I see it, why here it comes now. =)

(http://www.skullknight.net/griffith/train.gif):griffnotevil: :zodd: :void: :slan: :idea:                                                                                                        :troll:
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Death May Die on June 10, 2009, 08:44:39 AM
I think this is Skullknight's 100th Episode. But maybe someone already mentioned that. Cool stuff.  :void:
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Judas Priestly on June 10, 2009, 10:00:52 AM
Angels?

(http://i39.tinypic.com/rc3914.jpg)
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 10, 2009, 10:08:52 AM
At what point in this manga are the good guys going to win?

If they ever do? Not until the very end. :slan:

Griffith still has God-Hand powers and he knows everything as Skully just found out.

What SK found out is that Femto had been expecting him, not that he's omniscient.

Guts should just quit and retire somewhere.

Well he's kind of en route to his retirement home right now. :ganishka:

I think this is Skullknight's 100th Episode.

It's not.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Oburi on June 10, 2009, 10:36:09 AM
At what point in this manga are the good guys going to win?  I thought maybe when Miura introduced witches to the scene, Guts could form an army of his own to battle Griffith with...nope.  Miura killed them off (well most of them as it's implied so far).  Miura brings Griffith back to Earth in human-ish form.  I can see Guts possibly fending off some of the Apostles and beheading Griffith with the new and improved shadow Dragonslayer...nope.  Griffith still has God-Hand powers and he knows everything as Skully just found out.  Now Earth is...well everyones seen the episode.  Guts should just quit and retire somewhere.  I don't know if Miura even wants the good guys to win or not.  If so, he's got a hell of a way of showing it.  Right now Evil x  

I was thinking that too. Berserk is so unique that way.  In most good versus evil stories it's always about trying to stop the bad guys before they can take over the word. But in Berserk that's already happened. Not to compare it to Lord of the Rings, but it's like imagine if Frodo failed and Sauron actually got the ring back and took over the world. I've never seen odds stacked so high against the good guys. And the shot from the moon of the entire planet being covered in the light gave me goosebumps. I've never seen that in a fantasy story either. I imagine most fantasy authors are a little reluctant to expand beyond the physical ground of the land they have created, but Miura boldly shows a shot from space, which really makes me think.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: MaN on June 10, 2009, 12:01:15 PM
By the same order some humans probably appeared at some camp of hydras and were duly roasted and enjoyed over the fire...

I know that most of the readers are inclined to believe that unicorns appeared from the other realm but I wonder if the light is going to transform the inhabitants of Guts' world too... and if it does then may be it was the farmers' horses that were transformed into unicorn. Just a thought.

ps Aaz: I didn't pop a vein over the unicorns... and as far as seeing good natured creatures in the future goes, its difficult because the scale is so heavily tilted in favor of bad and ultrabad monsters up till now. I think we can probably count the good natured creatures in all the manga on just the fingers of two hands... You are much more up to speed with the berserk glossary so I will leave that up to you skilled mind.. I think it will be an interesting exercise.... I'll start  :puck: , :schnoz: possibly  :badbone: ummm who else? Beherit apostle ?
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Vampire_Hunter_Bob on June 10, 2009, 12:12:09 PM
I'm in a rush so I'll make this quick.

By the same order some humans probably appeared at some camp of hydras and were duly roasted and enjoyed over the fire...

I'm going to stick with that these things just started showing up. It's more likely two farmers were fucking around in the woods when suddenly a dozen Hydra showed up.

Quote
I know that most of the readers are inclined to believe that unicorns appeared from the other realm but I wonder if the light is going to transform the inhabitants of Guts' world too... and if it does then may be it was the farmers' horses that were transformed into unicorn. Just a thought.

I doubt it. It's not like a farmer was about to kill your random garden snake when suddenly it turned into hydra or the farmers that were about to become Hydra food turned into minotaurs.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 10, 2009, 01:10:43 PM
And the shot from the moon of the entire planet being covered in the light gave me goosebumps. I've never seen that in a fantasy story either. I imagine most fantasy authors are a little reluctant to expand beyond the physical ground of the land they have created, but Miura boldly shows a shot from space, which really makes me think.

Yes. Miura is the fucking man. The story started with a simple enough scope; the setting was limited. But he's been expanding it ever since and it's always remained perfectly coherent. You don't see that a lot. In fact you just don't see it at all outside of Berserk as far as I know.

By the same order some humans probably appeared at some camp of hydras and were duly roasted and enjoyed over the fire...

Hahaha well, I know of at least one hydra that's going to have a good time soon after this episode's end. :zodd:

I know that most of the readers are inclined to believe that unicorns appeared from the other realm but I wonder if the light is going to transform the inhabitants of Guts' world too... and if it does then may be it was the farmers' horses that were transformed into unicorn. Just a thought.

I don't think so; that's not how things work from what we've been told and shown.

ps Aaz: I didn't pop a vein over the unicorns... and as far as seeing good natured creatures in the future goes, its difficult because the scale is so heavily tilted in favor of bad and ultrabad monsters up till now.

I meant that line for people in general, not to you specifically. And the scale is still heavily tilted in favor of "bad monsters". Those unicorns sure didn't look like they were about to save the world.

I think we can probably count the good natured creatures in all the manga on just the fingers of two hands... You are much more up to speed with the berserk glossary so I will leave that up to you skilled mind.. I think it will be an interesting exercise.... I'll start  :puck: , :schnoz: possibly  :badbone: ummm who else? Beherit apostle ?

The Schnoz is technically an evil creature, and the beherit-apostle was an apostle (duh) so he was evil as well. SK was originally a human, so he doesn't count. That leaves elves. :puck:

I'm going to stick with that these things just started showing up. It's more likely two farmers were fucking around in the woods when suddenly a dozen Hydra showed up.

We're only shown one hydra. It has 9 heads. =)
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Vampire_Hunter_Bob on June 10, 2009, 01:30:20 PM
We're only shown one hydra. It has 9 heads. =)

IT WAS HYPOTHETICAL.  :ganishka:
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: ironman on June 10, 2009, 01:36:47 PM
The Schnoz is technically an evil creature, and the beherit-apostle was an apostle (duh) so he was evil as well. SK was originally a human, so he doesn't count.

The apostles were also originally humans


Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 10, 2009, 01:57:37 PM
IT WAS HYPOTHETICAL.  :ganishka:

Right.

The apostles were also originally humans

Well yeah, thanks, I know that. :schierke: Since I'd already invalidated MaN's point I didn't feel like hammering it in.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Bekul on June 10, 2009, 02:39:40 PM
I go away for a while, come back to all these new EPISODES...

 :isidro:

Seriously, I thought I was over being super-excited by stuff like this, but damn if Miura doesn't make me feel like an over-excited 10 year old again.

Y'know, looking back over the recent EPISODES, people could pretty much figure out that Griffith would defeat Ganishka, we knew Guts and co. would have troublesome adventures on the ocean - by no means am I saying that things were /predictible/, but at least we had some notion of how things were going to go.

Now, though... damn. I can't even begin to guess.

Interesting comment about magic before though - magic in Berserk so far seems to be based a great deal on the seperation of the worlds. On traveling though them in a limited way (astral), summoning creatures from different worlds or affecting them. Now that the worlds are merging/merged - 'magic' as such... will definately change. Again, here I can barely speculate, since the evidence of how magic used to work in Berserk is limited, and now everything has changed.

As a side note, seeing this: (http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/8679/50070085.jpg) - just how old /is/ Schierke, anyway? I had her pegged at around 13, but seeing how small she looks with Serpico holding her up like that, I'm not so sure anymore.

Given that her understanding of magic is greater than anyone else on that ship, I'm hoping for some specific mental exposition from her, though I doubt even she could begin to guess at what's happening, only what's changing.

Sidenote 2 - Isidro and Serpico's magically enhanced items, now that the worlds are merging/merged, will definately not work like they used to anymore. I think that's all I can say with any real certainty here.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Walter on June 10, 2009, 02:52:28 PM
Sidenote 2 - Isidro and Serpico's magically enhanced items, now that the worlds are merging/merged, will definately not work like they used to anymore. I think that's all I can say with any real certainty here.
It's not certain at all, actually. Their weapons function by utilizing the fundamental elements. Those haven't changed. If anything DOES change, I'd say they may even be more effective.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Oburi on June 10, 2009, 03:02:18 PM
I'm surprised we didn't see the light washing over everyone on the boat, we just saw Guts' reaction. I would have been interested in seeing how Schierke reacted too.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Malachai on June 10, 2009, 03:24:29 PM
And the shot from the moon of the entire planet being covered in the light gave me goosebumps. I've never seen that in a fantasy story either. I imagine most fantasy authors are a little reluctant to expand beyond the physical ground of the land they have created, but Miura boldly shows a shot from space, which really makes me think.


Its extremely interesting to think that this has only been happening in one part of the world. How is Griffith going to spread his Gospel across the globe?

I suppose i should have processed the meaning of the Kushan invading (a different country) and how that opened up the world, but seeing the planet from space really hammers it home.

There are kingdoms, towns, and villages (probably) all over the planet. More than likely there are apostles too.


Very cool.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 10, 2009, 05:39:42 PM
Interesting comment about magic before though - magic in Berserk so far seems to be based a great deal on the seperation of the worlds. On traveling though them in a limited way (astral), summoning creatures from different worlds or affecting them. Now that the worlds are merging/merged - 'magic' as such... will definately change.

Definitely, eh? Seeing how we don't know the technicalities of what's happening I wouldn't be quite so confident if I were you. A lot is going to change (has already changed), but who says magic depended on the separation of the worlds? Or even that the deepest parts of the astral world have already merged with the corporeal world? It might very well be facilitated now, but it could also be mostly unaffected.

Don't rule out the possibilities. :slan:

just how old /is/ Schierke, anyway?

We don't know.

Given that her understanding of magic is greater than anyone else on that ship, I'm hoping for some specific mental exposition from her, though I doubt even she could begin to guess at what's happening, only what's changing.

If she understands what's changing then she understands what's happening, doesn't she?

Isidro and Serpico's magically enhanced items, now that the worlds are merging/merged, will definately not work like they used to anymore. I think that's all I can say with any real certainty here.

What's your basis for saying so with any real certainty? Sounds like an assumption to me.

I'm surprised we didn't see the light washing over everyone on the boat, we just saw Guts' reaction. I would have been interested in seeing how Schierke reacted too.

Maybe next episode? I'm quite sure we will be shown what she has to say about it.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Henry Spencer on June 10, 2009, 07:20:07 PM
That was one stroke of brilliance on the part of Miura. He's never let me down yet. He's expanding the mythos in a direction I'm really liking. It's becoming like the ultimate fantasy tale with everything in there.

In the next episode, I hope we get to see what happened to Skull Knight, Daiba, Rakshas, Femto and Zodd and where they all went to...
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Death May Die on June 10, 2009, 07:45:07 PM
Episode 185 is the oldest episode I could dig up. Back in 2001. So thats...120? episodes Skullknight has gone through. Not bad. Assuming thats right, probably not.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Walter on June 10, 2009, 08:09:12 PM
Episode 185 is the oldest episode I could dig up. Back in 2001. So thats...120? episodes Skullknight has gone through. Not bad. Assuming thats right, probably not.
We've been discussing scans here since episode 165. The forum as it is now only goes back to 185 though.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Oburi on June 10, 2009, 09:55:51 PM
just how old /is/ Schierke, anyway? I had her pegged at around 13, but seeing how small she looks with Serpico holding her up like that, I'm not so sure anymore.

I think she could be a little older than 13. Not by much though. Like Aaz said there is really no way to know.

(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/2513/schreikeboobs.jpg)

I remember this scene though, indicating that Isidro could tell she was female after grabbing her chest, even if he jokes that there isn't much there. That should put her age at around a 13-16. Just my guess, though.

Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: KazigluBey on June 10, 2009, 10:39:40 PM
Same for everybody. But I have to point out that personally, you know, I'm not really "used" to unicorns. Not that I'm calling you a sissy that played with girls' toys as a kid, but you know... :ganishka: (I'm just kidding, please don't be offended)


Lol, no offense taken. I'm a child of the 80's which led to quite a few shows/books, etc. with Unicorns. Young girls eat this stuff up so both in school and in the neighborhood you see them playing with dolls or whatever the hell else, like children tend to do, and guys that like GI Joe or Transformers or whatever think it's about the lamest thing in the world. So from an early age I was a Unicorn hater, I must confess.  :judo:

The one exception being Legend, but then again I wanted Darkness to rule the world, so I had to root against the "Ugly one horned mules".
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: CCS on June 11, 2009, 12:38:39 AM
This episode is all kinds of crazy. With the world having changed this much it opens up so many ways things could turn out. I wonder how the higher ups in Vritannis and Midland will react...
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Azriel on June 11, 2009, 02:40:57 AM
I'm new so Hey. So after what Femto did to Ganishka it causing the worlds to merge, as we know the spiritual world already merge what if Femto was using Ganishka who using the power of hell to reach deeper into layers where the god hands are. It be can awesome when the light fade the god hands appear.  
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: NightCrawler on June 11, 2009, 03:06:00 AM
All valid points, Griff and Oburi. I guess i really need to do some "soul-searching" to find if i can still love Berserk. Episodic reading doesn't help for sure. I mean, some episodes are amazing, even recent ones, but then, some others really turn me off immensely. Maybe i should go back to reading just the "tankõbon"s (sp).
I think i'm still attached just because of nostalgia. I'm definitely not the same person i was 9 years ago when Berserk entered my life. Maybe for newer fans it's easier to swallow the sophistication Miura has injected in the series, as for the old ones... well i know a few that have lost almost total interest. But for the old fans here, on this site, maybe they're just not as fundamentalistic as i am (and there's way more dedication too, i don't even question that).
And it's not about misunderstanding Miura's ideas or characters, it's about not really enjoying some of the directions he has taken. Specially when you have this piece of art that awes you for alot of time. Your expectations grow.
Sometimes i think it benefits the written work, if the author doesn't take decades to complete it. The work might become scattered and loose.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Gobolatula on June 11, 2009, 03:30:12 AM
-CASCA: "What the fuck was that?"
-Everybody turns and stares, wide-eyed at her
-CASCA: "UH-- I MEAN--- Ugiiiiii....."
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: slan69 on June 11, 2009, 04:20:30 AM

Hahaha a hydra, holy shit! :ganishka:


Huh since when did Berserk have unicorns  :???: and man o man is guts gunna have a fun time killing that huge hydra when he comes across it sooner or later in the manga  :guts:
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Rhombaad on June 11, 2009, 04:27:58 AM
Huh since when did Berserk have unicorns  :???:

Technically they've always been in the spiritual world, we just haven't seen them before (aside from what we see during Flora's speech). They're showing up right now due to the worlds merging.

and man o man is guts gunna have a fun time killing that huge hydra when he comes across it sooner or later in the manga  :guts:

I guess it depends on when he gets back to land. I'm really hoping something attacks the ships while they're at sea and Guts has to step in yet again to save the day. :guts:
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: feralotter on June 11, 2009, 04:30:47 AM
I think i'm still attached just because of nostalgia. I'm definitely not the same person i was 9 years ago when Berserk entered my life. Maybe for newer fans it's easier to swallow the sophistication Miura has injected in the series, as for the old ones... well i know a few that have lost almost total interest.

Not to get too off topic...

But I think I know how you feel, it sounds familiar to when I was coming off the anime and volumes 18 and 19 were coming out and I thought that, 'man, this really isn't the berserk that I watched and grew so fond of, it seems different not in a good way. What is this, an RPG?'

Personally, what shifted me was when I sort of realized that it WILL NEVER BE THE GOLDEN AGE AGAIN, and that the characters and story and the wonder of it all when it was new and strange are just over. Hell, it still makes me sad thinking about that. But at the same time it started pulling me in more when Guts has a stab of nostalgia back those days, because I'm like, fuck, I miss that too! So now I'm linked because I want to know how Guts is going to deal with that and deal with the person responsible. It's like I had to grow up and get past it. It's never like your first time, is it?  :judo:

Not to say this is the only reason to keep reading past the first dozen volumes. It was just a shift I had to make to start to really soak up what was going on, this ever expansive world opening up which is beyond beyond any fiction out there right now. To which I'll say the facial expression of everyone on the ship is what I've had on my face for the last I don't know how many episodes.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Jhot obs on June 11, 2009, 05:47:21 AM
HOLY. FUCKING. SHIT.

Thanks for the episode link karwat. :serpico:

Miura is good to us Berserk fanboys. I`m not tripping about the unicorns or whatever people are complaining about them. I`m more thinking about the trolls (pillage & rapage all over the world! :troll:), kelpies, werewolves, griffins & everything else under the sun that`s going to be coming out. I can`t think of anything coherent after just seeing this all myself other then `nice`.

The Age of Darkness indeed. :griffnotevil:
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: slan69 on June 11, 2009, 07:14:31 AM
Technically they've always been in the spiritual world, we just haven't seen them before (aside from what we see during Flora's speech). They're showing up right now due to the worlds merging.

I guess it depends on when he gets back to land. I'm really hoping something attacks the ships while they're at sea and Guts has to step in yet again to save the day. :guts:


ahaha yea me to that would be fucking awesome another crazy fight with Guts if it does happen  :slan: lets just hope casca doesn't fall in the water again  :serpico:
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Griffith on June 11, 2009, 08:30:38 AM
All valid points, Griff and Oburi. I guess i really need to do some "soul-searching" to find if i can still love Berserk. Episodic reading doesn't help for sure. I mean, some episodes are amazing, even recent ones, but then, some others really turn me off immensely. Maybe i should go back to reading just the "tankõbon"s (sp).

That's definitely something to consider, like I've said, I usually don't like even a volumes worth of material until I see it fit into a wider context. It's hard to put things in perspective, especially when new elements are introduced, when you're in the thick of it. You can feel just as lost not knowing how it fits into what happens later as you can not knowing what happened before. I think that's true of any long form, stop and go, series like this. It's going to take twists and turns that throw you off, and you can't just read the next part to get on board again. Basically, it's the illusion we all face that whatever is currently happening, because it's last thing we see, is somehow Miura's ultimate statement, when in reality it's just going to be some small detail in the middle of everything else. Right now, it's unicorns. =)

I think i'm still attached just because of nostalgia. I'm definitely not the same person i was 9 years ago when Berserk entered my life. Maybe for newer fans it's easier to swallow the sophistication Miura has injected in the series, as for the old ones... well i know a few that have lost almost total interest. But for the old fans here, on this site, maybe they're just not as fundamentalistic as i am (and there's way more dedication too, i don't even question that).
And it's not about misunderstanding Miura's ideas or characters, it's about not really enjoying some of the directions he has taken. Specially when you have this piece of art that awes you for alot of time. Your expectations grow.

That's some thoughtful reflection on the matter, speaking of dedication, I do always give the series the benefit of the doubt, as well as the benefit of time. It's a fine line between trying to perceive things how they were intended in a positive light, while guarding against faulty rationalization and zealotry. Which goes both ways, whether it's by accepting anything new and different, or being open to nothing we haven't seen already. In either case, it comes down to a challenge of maintaining objectivity, which is especially difficult when digesting the material in such a subjective format. You really have to be optimistic and almost up for anything to read it episode by episode like this without getting frustrated with it. Even still, we all do from time to time.

Sometimes i think it benefits the written work, if the author doesn't take decades to complete it. The work might become scattered and loose.

I agree with that *cough*Dark Tower*cough*, but I don't think Berserk has lost its way; it's certainly expanded immensely, but I still feel like it's very tight. Every time I feel like it might be spinning out of control, or away from where I want it to go, later on I look back on that segment in question and realize, "That wasn't such a big deal." Again, it's that illusion of the latest being the ultimate.

But I think I know how you feel, it sounds familiar to when I was coming off the anime and volumes 18 and 19 were coming out and I thought that, 'man, this really isn't the berserk that I watched and grew so fond of, it seems different not in a good way. What is this, an RPG?'

I think this is a great example of how subjective it all is though, because I think that feeling is the same no matter where you came in, and it's not because things are getting progressively worse, it's because, once again, the latest thing is also the last thing in our minds. It makes me imagine Japanese Berserk readers from the series' beginning thinking that Golden Age sucked because of the departure it took from The Black Swordsman arc, "Man, what happened, when did this turn into the knights of the round table!?" =)
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 11, 2009, 08:32:37 AM
Young girls eat this stuff up so both in school and in the neighborhood you see them playing with dolls or whatever the hell else, like children tend to do, and guys that like GI Joe or Transformers or whatever think it's about the lamest thing in the world. So from an early age I was a Unicorn hater, I must confess.  :judo:

The one exception being Legend, but then again I wanted Darkness to rule the world, so I had to root against the "Ugly one horned mules".

Well now you've got unicorns being devoured by a hideous hydra, it should be like a dream finally come true. Where Legend failed, Berserk delivers. :badbone:

I'm new so Hey. So after what Femto did to Ganishka it causing the worlds to merge, as we know the spiritual world already merge what if Femto was using Ganishka who using the power of hell to reach deeper into layers where the god hands are. It be can awesome when the light fade the god hands appear.

Hi and welcome. The world had already started changing once Femto was incarnated. When Femto used SK's attack to open Ganishka up, a wave of astral light spilled into the corporeal world, finalizing the merging, or at least giving it a huge boost (since we don't know to what extent the worlds have been merged right now and to what extent they will eventually). As for Ganishka, he said he'd reached "the abyss of the evil world". We don't really know how that relates to the Vortex of Souls (what is Hell's equivalent in the Berserk world) or to the God Hand.

I think i'm still attached just because of nostalgia. I'm definitely not the same person i was 9 years ago when Berserk entered my life. Maybe for newer fans it's easier to swallow the sophistication Miura has injected in the series, as for the old ones... well i know a few that have lost almost total interest. But for the old fans here, on this site, maybe they're just not as fundamentalistic as i am (and there's way more dedication too, i don't even question that).

Well, that's just my personal opinion, but I've always considered Berserk to be quite sophisticated, even at the very beginning. It might have been a bit rough at the edges at first but I know I could tell everything was there already. And I don't think there's been a fundamental change in the series either. Sure, there are different eras, different arcs and those don't necessarily focus on the same things or have the same themes, but they're part of a whole and they complement each other. The sum is greater than the parts. And a story can't stay the same for too long without repeating itself and losing quality. Can you imagine an alternate universe where Guts would still be fighting apostles like in the Black Swordsman arc after all this time? I can't.

Like you said though, people change, and the way they look at the story changes with them. For some that means not liking Berserk as much as they used to. I also think, and that may be arrogant of me but whatever, that many people do not necessarily see Berserk for what it really is at first and that it takes time for them to realize it.

For example, some guy will read the Conviction arc and think it's great because Guts is covered in blood and kills children-monsters. It's fucking metal man yeah! Then he's disappointed because the rest of the story is all about "kiddie stuff" (:schierke:-inducing as far as I'm concerned). But really, when you think about it, what's the Lost Children arc about? A fairy tale gone bad in which the main characters other than Guts are children. It's all about Jill and Rochine crying out, Guts struggling not to be disgusted with himself and Puck trying to fix it all up. It's also the part of the story that has a whole episode dedicated to Puck. So with that in mind, that person who thinks Berserk isn't like it was before, if he puts aside his nostalgia and re-reads the story objectively, well he might find out that it was never really like he remembers it.

And it's not about misunderstanding Miura's ideas or characters, it's about not really enjoying some of the directions he has taken. [...] Sometimes i think it benefits the written work, if the author doesn't take decades to complete it. The work might become scattered and loose.

Unfortunately not much can be done about that. If you don't like the direction of the series, then it might just not be the one for you, sad as it is to say. As for long lasting works, I'll also point out that people can simply become disinterested with something over time. It's a natural thing. You have to really love something to stay a big fan for over a decade.

But I think I know how you feel, it sounds familiar to when I was coming off the anime and volumes 18 and 19 were coming out and I thought that, 'man, this really isn't the berserk that I watched and grew so fond of, it seems different not in a good way. What is this, an RPG?' [...] Not to say this is the only reason to keep reading past the first dozen volumes. It was just a shift I had to make to start to really soak up what was going on, this ever expansive world opening up which is beyond beyond any fiction out there right now.

I think that viewpoint is biased because of the anime though. The series doesn't start with the Golden Age arc right away, and volumes 18 & 19 are about as far away from a RPG as I could imagine. Believe me when I tell you that I love the Golden Age arc, but in all honesty it served its purpose, which was to provide a background for Guts' current adventures. It's a testimony of Miura's talent that it was so well done that people still long for that time like Guts himself does. Which I guess is pretty much what you were saying. :guts:

EDIT: Damn and now Griff has beaten me to the punch!
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: DetriusXii on June 11, 2009, 09:00:52 AM
Will other humans start gaining athletic abilities comparable to Guts athletic abilities because everyone is connected now to the spiritual world?
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 11, 2009, 09:07:29 AM
Will other humans start gaining athletic abilities comparable to Guts athletic abilities because everyone is connected now to the spiritual world?

Guts had "athletic abilities" before he was branded, you know. Anyway, I don't think the average human will now have superhuman strength. But that's not to say that supernatural phenomena in general won't be occurring a lot more often from now on, because that's very possible.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: MaN on June 11, 2009, 09:32:38 AM
I think i'm still attached just because of nostalgia. I'm definitely not the same person i was 9 years ago when Berserk entered my life...

Well I think the same can be said about any work. So many times the same book/article/written piece has a different meaning and it because of (as you said) changes in the perspective of the person reading it.

Personally I admire Miura's dedication to come up with ideas and then combining them with some awesome artwork. Of course some ideas are better than other. I think of it this way. Berserk manga is an epic which requires slow building of ideas/characters. Would we all be having this conversation or the mulling over this thing or that if the whole thing had been really compact and unidimensional.

The thing I look forward to and feel sad about at the same time is the day when he finishes this manga. What an awesome and complete piece of work would this be. So lets just enjoy the ride....

-CASCA: "What the fuck was that?"
-Everybody turns and stares, wide-eyed at her
-CASCA: "UH-- I MEAN--- Ugiiiiii....."
haha that really made me laugh
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: SiRAuron on June 11, 2009, 01:51:07 PM
late to this, but I just wanted to comment.

But who says anywhere that the 'good guys' will win?  Are there even 'good guys' and 'bad guys'?  I've never really thought of Berserk as a good vs evil type of story.  From way back in the golden age after they say zodd, when the conversation went something like "like some kind of god" 'more like a demon"  "is there a difference?"  I'm not sure if it's just differences and/or inaccuracies in translation, but I remember hearing the god hand referred to as both demons and angels at different times.

Of course, that's just my interpretation, but I've always seen it as more of a man vs fate than a good vs evil kind of story.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 11, 2009, 02:29:27 PM
But who says anywhere that the 'good guys' will win?

Can't blame people for hoping Guts wins in the end. I hope so myself. :guts:

Are there even 'good guys' and 'bad guys'?  I've never really thought of Berserk as a good vs evil type of story.  From way back in the golden age after they say zodd, when the conversation went something like "like some kind of god" 'more like a demon"  "is there a difference?"  I'm not sure if it's just differences and/or inaccuracies in translation, but I remember hearing the god hand referred to as both demons and angels at different times.

Yeah, there are good guys and bad guys. The members of the God Hand refer to themselves as several things, but they're evil. That's one thing that doesn't change. Apostles are evil too. And well, the God of the Berserk world, master of the God Hand, apostles and beherits calls itself the Idea of Evil. Name speaks for itself.

That doesn't mean it has to be manichean though. The gentle white knight in a shining armor is actually the antagonist, while the rude, bloodied black-clad warrior is the protagonist.

Of course, that's just my interpretation, but I've always seen it as more of a man vs fate than a good vs evil kind of story.

What you call "fate" would be the principle of causality in our case, and it is manipulated by the Idea of Evil. So in effect it is a Guts vs Evil type of story. What's left is for you to decide whether Guts is good or not.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Shadax on June 11, 2009, 09:25:54 PM
Whoever said that after Ganishka, these hydras etc really aren't that impressive or scary, I personally disagree. Ganishka was just one being and he was sort of a special case in a far off place. Now we all of a sudden have completely alien predators like the hydra invading this reality. I find that a lot scarier.

Till now, the apostles have mostly been isolated monsters who pick their fights consciously. Now, danger comes very close to the average man all of a sudden. There's no more really safe havens. everywhere is going to crawl with ferocious monsters now.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Rhombaad on June 11, 2009, 11:57:55 PM
Till now, the apostles have mostly been isolated monsters who pick their fights consciously. Now, danger comes very close to the average man all of a sudden. There's no more really safe havens. everywhere is going to crawl with ferocious monsters now.

As of now I'm picturing the Age of Darkness with humans staying behind their castle walls and rarely venturing outside due to the roaming monsters. I think the world is about to become a much scarier place and Man will find itself in a state of weakness it has never experienced before.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 12, 2009, 12:26:38 AM
I think the world is about to become a much scarier place and Man will find itself in a state of weakness it has never experienced before.

Or at least not in a long time. :slan:

On a totally different note, I forgot to mention a few days ago that we can clearly see Guts' spiritual wound on his chest when the wave of light hits him. I just thought that was a nice touch, though of course I expected nothing less. Another interesting detail: his left arm is shown whole in his spiritual form (might very well be the artificial arm of course, but even then that's quite interesting).

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: TheBranded1 on June 12, 2009, 12:45:07 AM


On a totally different note, I forgot to mention a few days ago that we can clearly see Guts' spiritual wound on his chest when the wave of light hits him. I just thought that was a nice touch, though of course I expected nothing less. Another interesting detail: his left arm is shown whole in his spiritual form (might very well be the artificial arm of course, but even then that's quite interesting).

Interesting stuff indeed, even his patch of white hair is gone, so his spiritual form show us the changes it has taken. Even to be more of a nitpick here, Azan still wearing his helmet.(don't wanna get tanned?).
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: SaiyajinNoOuji on June 12, 2009, 12:54:49 AM
haha, those poor poor farmers. They just had the look of " uggggh, what in the hell." Then it finally hits them.  :ganishka:

Beutiful stuff as always.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Walter on June 12, 2009, 01:21:46 AM
Another interesting detail: his left arm is shown whole in his spiritual form (might very well be the artificial arm of course, but even then that's quite interesting).
I'm  not sure we can see enough of the arm to say it's fully there. Looks like it's just the wrappings to me.

Interesting stuff indeed, even his patch of white hair is gone, so his spiritual form show us the changes it has taken. Even to be more of a nitpick here, Azan still wearing his helmet.(don't wanna get tanned?).
Azan's face is probably disfigured from torture at the hands of the Holy See after Albion. Just a hunch anyway. His eyes are certainly open WIIIIDE constantly. Very creepy.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Dani on June 12, 2009, 02:26:00 AM
Amazing as always. Take that, Unicorn!
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Griffith on June 12, 2009, 04:35:33 AM
I'm not sure we can see enough of the arm to say it's fully there. Looks like it's just the wrappings to me.

You can see it extending beyond his elbow and forearm. Also, none of the other wrappings, or anything "inorganic," is actually visible, barring the possibility that Guts' false arm is appearing on his astral form as Aaz wondered. Interestingly enough, armor and clothes were visible in the similar imagery of 304, so the anomaly is Guts' nakedness otherwise. Anyway, it's either his false arm appearing as a part of him, his natural arm still existing on the astral plane, or a combination of the two, such as the arm being so tied to Guts in his own mind (i.e. he reaches for Casca with it in earnest without even realizing he can't grab her) that it's become the equivalent of his natural arm, kind of related related to how Schierke and Farnese mentally project their astral forms.

Azan's face is probably disfigured from torture at the hands of the Holy See after Albion. Just a hunch anyway. His eyes are certainly open WIIIIDE constantly. Very creepy.

Ohh, never even thought of that, cool idea beyond his futilely trying to hide his identity.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: CowTip on June 12, 2009, 05:35:11 AM
The only problem I have with the fake arm being real is that Guts still has his eye closed. I know they just pointed out that he'd forgotten how his arm was gone, but then, couldn't he just have adjusted to the loss of his eye too?

Though, of course there's the whole 'image of eclipse burned into Guts' mind as the last stimuli that eye ever sent' deal and the easy counter of "Hey Guts is used to keeping his eye closed!". I don't know, I think the picture is overall too vague to know, though it'd be an interesting twist if he got his missing pieces back.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Griffith on June 12, 2009, 07:04:04 AM
The only problem I have with the fake arm being real is that Guts still has his eye closed. I know they just pointed out that he'd forgotten how his arm was gone, but then, couldn't he just have adjusted to the loss of his eye too?

Well, the distinction is he has no substitute for his eye whereas his metal arm has become second nature to him. Guts himself said in 287 that he had forgotten it was just something he put on to destroy his enemies. Anyway, self-image is important here, Guts wouldn't imagine himself with an eye where there isn't one, but conversely, he also might not think of himself, especially from an aesthetic standpoint, as someone with only a stump. It's actually one of the real reasons, psychological, for synthetic replacement appendages.

Though, of course there's the whole 'image of eclipse burned into Guts' mind as the last stimuli that eye ever sent' deal and the easy counter of "Hey Guts is used to keeping his eye closed!".

Yeah, again, he still gets plenty out of what's left of his arm, meanwhile, he's not getting any more use out of that eye. =)

I don't know, I think the picture is overall too vague to know, though it'd be an interesting twist if he got his missing pieces back.

Oh, it certainly is vague, and nobody is suggesting that he's actually going to physically reacquire those things now. Like Aaz said, it's just interesting that there's anything to see there at all, whether that just be his false arm, or some astral form representing how his arm exists in his mind.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Death May Die on June 12, 2009, 07:06:03 AM
(http://www.sundancechannel.com/UPLOADS/films/320x240/o/orgazmo2.jpg)
"Dude I don't want to sound queer or anything, but between you and me, I think unicorns are kick ass!"
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Marik on June 12, 2009, 07:51:47 AM
Pretty weird episode. At this rate I don't know what to think about what will happen.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 12, 2009, 11:57:11 AM
Interesting stuff indeed, even his patch of white hair is gone, so his spiritual form show us the changes it has taken.

That's already been pointed out, and I don't see how it shows us any particular changes that his white hair isn't shown. On the contrary that's a lack of changes.

Even to be more of a nitpick here, Azan still wearing his helmet.(don't wanna get tanned?).

What's nitpicky about that? Azan hasn't removed his helmet since he embarked on the ship as far as we know. He's still trying to stay incognito.

I'm  not sure we can see enough of the arm to say it's fully there. Looks like it's just the wrappings to me.

I'm pretty sure. :guts:

Azan's face is probably disfigured from torture at the hands of the Holy See after Albion. Just a hunch anyway. His eyes are certainly open WIIIIDE constantly. Very creepy.

Fun idea, but somehow I don't think so. He's probably just being eccentric in his efforts not to be recognized.

Also, none of the other wrappings, or anything "inorganic," is actually visible, barring the possibility that Guts' false arm is appearing on his astral form as Aaz wondered. Interestingly enough, armor and clothes were visible in the similar imagery of 304, so the anomaly is Guts' nakedness otherwise.

Well in episode 304 it's hard to say whether the light had fully washed over them already since Ganishka only explodes at the end of the episode. That could be enough to make a difference. Or there's the fact Guts is (was?) in the Interstice, with a stronger connexion to the spiritual world than normal humans.

the arm being so tied to Guts in his own mind (i.e. he reaches for Casca with it in earnest without even realizing he can't grab her) that it's become the equivalent of his natural arm

That's precisely what I had in mind. :serpico:

kind of related related to how Schierke and Farnese mentally project their astral forms.

Hmm, I don't know about that. Seems to be a different thing to me: when they project themselves, their spirit simply leaves their body. Basically the spiritual self is separated from the corporeal self. It's not the same with Guts associating a prosthesis to himself so much that it'd become tied to him on the spiritual level.

The only problem I have with the fake arm being real is that Guts still has his eye closed.

Like Griff said, he has no substitude for his eye. That makes all the difference.

"Hey Guts is used to keeping his eye closed!".

Guts doesn't just keep his eye closed, you know. It's likely the healing tissues have fused it shut permanently.

Anyway, self-image is important here

Yes, exactly. It's the same with how he has no scar except for the one on his nose. It could just be because the cartilage itself was cut and not just the skin, but beyond that it's also his trademark scar, one he's had since early childhood and that means a lot to him because of its tie to Gambino.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Johnstantine on June 12, 2009, 02:21:39 PM
This episode was pretty weak in comparison to the last 10 or so episodes.  Don't really know what else to say besides that.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Walter on June 12, 2009, 02:25:44 PM
This episode was pretty weak in comparison to the last 10 or so episodes.  Don't really know what else to say besides that.
You should be pleased, the trolls are now merged with the physical world. You can join with your brethren!  :troll:
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Johnstantine on June 12, 2009, 02:39:16 PM
You should be pleased, the trolls are now merged with the physical world. You can join with your brethren!  :troll:

Finally I won't be alone while on my outtings of raping and pillaging!
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Griffith on June 12, 2009, 07:12:04 PM
I'll play along. :troll:

This episode was pretty weak in comparison to the last 10 or so episodes.  Don't really know what else to say besides that.

(http://www.skullknight.net/griffith/prettyweak.jpg)

www.skullknight.net/griffith/lumbergh.wav (http://www.skullknight.net/griffith/lumbergh.wav)
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Oburi on June 12, 2009, 07:55:46 PM
I'll play along. :troll:

www.skullknight.net/griffith/lumbergh.wav

 :ganishka:

Seriously man, as it has been said before it's continuing what happened in the last few episodes. Think of it as one big event. And I don't see how it could possibly get any more epic than this!
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: D-Scape on June 12, 2009, 08:59:13 PM
:ganishka:

Seriously man, as it has been said before it's continuing what happened in the last few episodes. Think of it as one big event. And I don't see how it could possibly get any more epic than this!

Couldn't agree more. This episode was so epic I had to register.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: CowTip on June 12, 2009, 10:34:53 PM
I know this can get into a whole giant discussion so I won't push the issue past this, but:

Like Griff said, he has no substitute for his eye. That makes all the difference.

The real problem I have with this argument is that while what you say is true that there is no direct replacement, one could argue that his other eye is the replacement for the one he's lost. If it wasn't for that they've shown repeatedly that Guts is drawn to his lost eye whenever the eclipse is brought up, I'd argue that many people probably don't think of themselves as a one eyed person after awhile. People adapt to change, much like Guts did with his artificial arm, I could see him not even being self-aware that he only has one eye. I could see this being even truer due to the fact that Guts doesn't even wear an eyepatch and there don't seem to be a lot of mirrors around making his lost eye even less noticeable to himself over time. Again though, Guts had his eye taken from him, something he seems to remember on a regular basis. His arm was destroyed due to self-affliction, he saw his arm as a hindrance at that moment so he tossed it aside. Maybe that holds the difference?

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Guts doesn't just keep his eye closed, you know. It's likely the healing tissues have fused it shut permanently.

I actually didn't even know this was possible. Something I'll definitely need to look into. I always wondered how he managed to keep that thing closed all the time  :ganishka:

Quote
Yes, exactly. It's the same with how he has no scar except for the one on his nose. It could just be because the cartilage itself was cut and not just the skin, but beyond that it's also his trademark scar, one he's had since early childhood and that means a lot to him because of its tie to Gambino.

Perhaps this would indeed be the same as his arm. This wound was inflicted upon guts, as such it might mean more to him on top of connections such as Gambino. Another note is that these two wounds in particular were inflicted upon guts during a time when he was more vulnerable. Times of weakness that Guts rejects? (Gambino's strength led to Guts trying harder, loss of his eye when completely helpless whereas say the burn marks were all almost necessary wounds of a sort)

Again, I'm not stating my opinion as fact, just trying to look deeper into what Miura might be showing us here in this EPISODE.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 12, 2009, 11:23:51 PM
The real problem I have with this argument is that while what you say is true that there is no direct replacement, one could argue that his other eye is the replacement for the one he's lost.

No, I don't think one couldn't argue that unless one really didn't understand the concept of a prosthesis. Guts' other eye doesn't replace the one he's lost, just like his other forearm doesn't replace the one he's lost. At most it merely palliates the extent to which that loss affects him. A glass eye would be a replacement, albeit a completely useless one beyond aesthetical concerns.

If it wasn't for that they've shown repeatedly that Guts is drawn to his lost eye whenever the eclipse is brought up, I'd argue that many people probably don't think of themselves as a one eyed person after awhile. People adapt to change, much like Guts did with his artificial arm, I could see him not even being self-aware that he only has one eye.

But we've been shown that Guts is very much aware that he has only one eye, so you won't argue that. And it's a good thing, because frankly I believe it's beside the point. I don't think someone who's lost an eye would forget about it, even if he never saw himself in a mirror. Getting used to it doesn't change the fact that it's gone.

His arm was destroyed due to self-affliction, he saw his arm as a hindrance at that moment so he tossed it aside. Maybe that holds the difference?

No, I don't think so. See above.

This wound was inflicted upon guts, as such it might mean more to him on top of connections such as Gambino.

Many, many wounds were inflicted upon Guts. So I don't think that fact itself means too much here.

Another note is that these two wounds in particular were inflicted upon guts during a time when he was more vulnerable. Times of weakness that Guts rejects?

Not rebuking you or anything, but speaking very honestly, I think that's far-fetched. Why would those be part of his spiritual self if he rejected them? Makes no sense to me. Personally I don't think it's got anything to do with rejection at all, but rather like I posted earlier that it's more a matter of self-image (not to mention the fact he has a metal prosthetis attached to his arm). Of how Guts pictures himself.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: CowTip on June 13, 2009, 02:55:34 AM
Well, I can say that I'm definitely looking forward to some of the clarifications of this event that are bound to come rolling in sometime soon (hopefully). I can't wait for the next few episodes that's for sure!
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Gobolatula on June 13, 2009, 05:25:18 AM
I hate to be off-topic, but, Oburi, your avatar is adorable and I want the full-size version of it or the original image or something. Who drew it?
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Oburi on June 13, 2009, 05:57:48 AM
I hate to be off-topic, but, Oburi, your avatar is adorable and I want the full-size version of it or the original image or something. Who drew it?

I wrote "thanks Grail" beneath it to answer that question. She did an amazing job and I'm forever grateful!
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Mad Angel Loki on June 13, 2009, 08:03:22 AM
Nice episode like always,I loved the discussion going on here ,the unicorn ranting and the answers from some of you really made me laugh (SK.net is really a funny place to go) anyway back to the topic , the area affected by Ganishka's "explosion"(did not find any better word to say here) is . . . IMPRESSIVE and the way Miura depicted it is really awesome.
Moreover this episode is perfectly foreshadowing what could the "age of darkness" be for the human beings; scared and lost they run to the enlightened castle!  by the way it's quite ironical that those being "in touch" with the devil(ie Griffith ) feel safe being covered by a "holy light" and that this exact same light is actually a curse for most of the human being around the world or...maybe I'm overthinking here  :guts:
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Proj2501 on June 13, 2009, 01:17:33 PM
If anything, I'd say you're probably on the money. Everything we've become acustomed to in the Berserk universe is in a state of flux right now. Really, whoever thinks this episode was a let down should really sit down and reconsider if this series is for them.

This event has proven we are liable to see ANYTHING. There's just so much to anticipate...

Sea monsters anyone?   ;)
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: KazigluBey on June 13, 2009, 01:54:39 PM
I'm just waiting for Griffith to corrupt Charlotte and turn her into some kind of Countess Bathory. That would be quite entertaining.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: JK on June 14, 2009, 09:32:28 AM
Well, regardless of the world-changing event... What does this mean for Guts and his quest? I still believe the story is about him, although a good part of the latest episodes disagree.

So if the worlds have merged, doesn't this mean that the God Hand, and Griffith, are now reachable? By a certain swordsman that has been chasing otherworldly beings up until now, I mean  :chomp:

And perhaps he goes through physical changes in a way that he's not so limited by his body as he is now. It seems a world of fantasy has replaced the realistically medieval one. There is a lot to expect.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Vampire_Hunter_Bob on June 14, 2009, 01:31:33 PM
I still believe the story is about him, although a good part of the latest episodes disagree.

Just because the latest episodes aren't focused on Guts, doesn't mean that the story isn't about him. This is just showing the reader what lays ahead for Guts.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: jackson_hurley on June 14, 2009, 04:58:51 PM
a bit off topic but I just notice we're one episode away before completing volume 34. Can't wait to see what Miura will do for that cover! :carcus:
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Oburi on June 14, 2009, 05:19:38 PM
I have a question.

After we see the world being covered in light all the sudden we see the unicorns getting chased around and then some peasants who end up getting chased as well.  Does this mean that the light covering the world dissapeared? Like after the light spread across the globe it went away and pretty much everything went back to normal except now we have magical creatures around. Even the peasants looked like they went right back to work cutting lumber or something.  Is the whole "light covering the planet" part done? If so, I think the transition could have been made a little more clear, unless some serious time has past.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: jackson_hurley on June 14, 2009, 05:51:37 PM
I have a question.

After we see the world being covered in light all the sudden we see the unicorns getting chased around and then some peasants who end up getting chased as well.  Does this mean that the light covering the world dissapeared? Like after the light spread across the globe it went away and pretty much everything went back to normal except now we have magical creatures around. Even the peasants looked like they went right back to work cutting lumber or something.  Is the whole "light covering the planet" part done? If so, I think the transition could have been made a little more clear, unless some serious time has past.

Good point. When I think of it, it seems like that. The light that spread across the globe could just be "passing by" like maybe an invisible sheet getting washed away. I see it as if the separation of the spiritual and the physical world was just removed (which is pretty much whats going on right now if I'm not mistaken (okay maybe not in that wording)) I don't think a lot of time has happen though in between. Maybe the farmers saw the light and were surprised for a few minutes then got back to their work just before the unicorns and the hydra popped out of the woods. thats just my guess though
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: DrPepperPro on June 14, 2009, 05:57:34 PM
I'd guess that since the creatures stayed, that peoples' astral forms would stay in some sense, it might be different because they already have a physical body, whereas the unicorns and stuff don't.  The area around the woodcutters didn't seem to change.  Maybe that has to do with the astral not appearing so suddenly where there already is a physical presence.  Or maybe there's just not enough astral stuff to go around, so some regions of the physical world aren't changed.  Or regions that have strong belief of the Holy See religion might not be affected as much, which might be why the creatures appeared in the woods, though we only saw a few and that's probably too much of an assumption to make until we see more.  Could be, some monsters appeared right in Mrs. Raban's living room.

Can't wait for 306!
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 14, 2009, 05:57:53 PM
a bit off topic but I just notice we're one episode away before completing volume 34. Can't wait to see what Miura will do for that cover! :carcus:

We may get to see it in the next issue, since there will be additional pages.

After we see the world being covered in light all the sudden we see the unicorns getting chased around and then some peasants who end up getting chased as well.  Does this mean that the light covering the world dissapeared? Like after the light spread across the globe it went away and pretty much everything went back to normal except now we have magical creatures around. Even the peasants looked like they went right back to work cutting lumber or something.  Is the whole "light covering the planet" part done? If so, I think the transition could have been made a little more clear, unless some serious time has past.

Don't tell me you expected the world to remain covered in that spiritual light forever. And the lumberjacks were most likely already at work when the light hit them. You can't deduce anything about time passing from what we see of them.

As for the transition, personally I thought it was pretty well done. Abrupt and to the point, befitting the events. One moment people are going about their lives, the next unicorns are coming out of the woods, chased by a hydra.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: jackson_hurley on June 14, 2009, 06:02:09 PM
 Or maybe there's just not enough astral stuff to go around, so some regions of the physical world aren't changed.

I don't think so about that, what with Sonia saying that the principle of the world was about to change, I'm pretty sure the whole world is affected hence the last part in the episode showing the globe getting wrap in the light.

And Aaz you're right we might see the cover with the next episode. I totally forgot there was gonna be extra pages.

sweet!

I'll cross my fingers hehe
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Oburi on June 14, 2009, 06:11:55 PM
Don't tell me you expected the world to remain covered in that spiritual light forever. And the lumberjacks were most likely already at work when the light hit them. You can't deduce anything about time passing from what we see of them. Personally I thought the transition was pretty well done. Abrupt and to the point, befitting the events.

Of course I didn't, but it did seem a little strange because you have to assume that the light started dissapearing even though it's not shown. Like Jackson Hurley, I figured it was more like a shock wave that passed by everything and everyone, but even then the shots we see from outer space show almost the entire northern hemisphere being covered in the light. Not really a problem or anything, I guess you have to just assume that it covered the entire planet for a period and then went away, and then the lumberjacks went back to work only to find some new animal friends in the forrest.

I guess the way I imagine it now is that after the entire planet was covered with the light and it stayed like that for a moment, it then suddenly all went out, like someone hitting the light switch, with everyone just standing around silently not knowing what to expect.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 14, 2009, 06:55:06 PM
Like Jackson Hurley, I figured it was more like a shock wave that passed by everything and everyone, but even then the shots we see from outer space show almost the entire northern hemisphere being covered in the light. Not really a problem or anything, I guess you have to just assume that it covered the entire planet for a period and then went away, and then the lumberjacks went back to work only to find some new animal friends in the forrest.

There's no need or reason to assume that it stayed for a particular amount of time. Could have been just seconds. Just like the lumberjacks might have not gone back to work at all. The light could have faded, and then the unicorns and hydra appeared right after. What you're saying makes it sound like you've never read a comic book before. Yes, you have to fill in the blanks in-between panels.

Is there really a need to know precisely how much time elapsed? I don't think so. Will we get a good enough indication in the following episodes anyway? Probably.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Oburi on June 14, 2009, 07:04:47 PM
There's no need or reason to assume that it stayed for a particular amount of time. Could have been just seconds. Just like the lumberjacks might have not gone back to work at all. The light could have faded, and then the unicorns and hydra appeared right after. What you're saying makes it sound like you've never read a comic book before. Yes, you have to fill in the blanks in-between panels.

Yea well that's pretty much what I did in my last post, I stated how I imagined it since it wasn't crystal clear.

Is there really a need to know precisely how much time elapsed? I don't think so. Will we get a good enough indication in the following episodes anyway? Probably.

Is there a need to know? Yea well, I'd like too. We are talking about the Age Of Fucking Darkness here! I'd like to get all the details and know exactly how it went down, and from the posts other people are thinking about it too. But yea we will probably get a better idea in the next episode anyway.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 14, 2009, 07:33:22 PM
We are talking about the Age Of Fucking Darkness here!

I thought we were talking about your incomprehension of the transition used between two panels.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: KazigluBey on June 14, 2009, 07:36:29 PM
The light spreading and then disappearing makes sense to me. It enveloped the Earth so now the Earth has been transformed. It isn't like it represents some sort of magical barrier that has to be destroyed in order to return the world to normal.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 14, 2009, 07:38:56 PM
The light spreading and then disappearing makes sense to me. It enveloped the Earth so now the Earth has been transformed.

Yeah. The exact details will come later, assuming they do come at all. There are a few different possibilities.

It isn't like it represents some sort of magical barrier that has to be destroyed in order to return the world to normal.

Indeed not.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Jaze1618 on June 14, 2009, 09:30:11 PM
Come on guys, does a fish see the water around it?

What is one way that we know something exists? We can see where it is and where is isn't, there is a distinction between 'it' and 'not it'

Perhaps the light didn't just vanish and and is still covering the world and didn't just vanish or fade away, I never thought about it this way before, but the philosophical argument might be that once it encompasses everything it can no longer be seen as there is no distinguish what is covered by light and what isn't.

Maybe whimsical self indulgence but I bet Griffith(once more)will have an interesting take on this.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Oburi on June 14, 2009, 09:48:16 PM
Come on guys, does a fish see the water around it?

What is one way that we know something exists? We can see where it is and where is isn't, there is a distinction between 'it' and 'not it'

Perhaps the light didn't just vanish and and is still covering the world and didn't just vanish or fade away, I never thought about it this way before, but the philosophical argument might be that once it encompasses everything it can no longer be seen as there is no distinguish what is covered by light and what isn't.


I don't believe that at all. The people saw the actual Light. They were amazed by it and it covered the world. I'm just wondering how long it lasted since it wasn't just the actual light but the astral forms of the people that dissapeared as well. I suppose what I really want to know is how much time had passed between the shot of the world being covered with light and then on the next page the unicorns in the forrest, because the light and the astral forms clearly are gone by that point. Not saying anything is wrong with the manga and the way it's shown, im just curious, and I wouldn't say its out of the question that when the collected episodes are released Miura adds a panel or two in those pages.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: TheBranded1 on June 14, 2009, 10:16:33 PM
I suppose what I really want to know is how much time had passed between the shot of the world being covered with light and then on the next page the unicorns in the forrest, because the light and the astral forms clearly are gone by that point.

We can estimate the time from the pictures, although I would say it doesn't matter much. But let's take a look.  On page 2 we can see the townspeople doing their usual labor. I would assume the plowing was being done in the morning, and the other activities we see in that page. Then we see the light covering the world yada yada... fast forward to page 18 and you see the two men cutting a tree as the hydra and unicorns appear. page 19 shows them running towards the town and the fields are just the first thing they are going to pass by before reaching town. The last page shows the hydra and herpies in the field with the plow just in place. I can only estimate that one of those men was working earlier with the plow and then moved onto the trees. But it looks that is the same day. So we can say it could have been some minutes after the light passed by the town, or hours later until the unicorns and hydra reached the place. I don't know if that satisfies you for now.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Oburi on June 14, 2009, 10:20:07 PM
We can estimate the time from the pictures, although I would say it doesn't matter much. But let's take a look.  On page 2 we can see the townspeople doing their usual labor. I would assume the plowing was being done in the morning, and the other activities we see in that page. Then we see the light covering the world yada yada... fast forward to page 18 and you see the two men cutting a tree as the hydra and unicorns appear. page 19 shows them running towards the town and the fields are just the first thing they are going to pass by before reaching town. The last page shows the hydra and herpies in the field with the plow just in place. I can only estimate that one of those men was working earlier with the plow and then moved onto the trees. But it looks that is the same day. So we can say it could have been some minutes after the light passed by the town, or hours later until the unicorns and hydra reached the place. I don't know if that satisfies you for now.

For now...

 
The last page shows the hydra and herpies in the field with the plow

 Sounds like a personal problem, branded. :carcus:
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Dar Klink on June 14, 2009, 10:21:49 PM

  Sounds like a personal problem, branded. :carcus:
I was about to comment on the herpies too, but you beat me to it.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: TheBranded1 on June 14, 2009, 10:26:59 PM

 
 Sounds like a personal problem, branded. :carcus:

I meant "harpies" and it's herpes :puck:


Anyway, since the harpies are capable of reaching the town faster, I am pretty sure they might just snatch a kid or someone in their sight.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Xem on June 14, 2009, 11:06:38 PM
 I can't stop saying how excited I am about the unicorns. I want to see some more, er, good creatures? Fuck the Kraken, give me some damn mermaids! Actually I'd like to see some big bad sea monsters too, but I'm more excited about getting to Elfhelm and clapping/grinning/giggling manically. Maybe there's unicorns and stuff in Elfhelm! One can only hope.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Walter on June 14, 2009, 11:53:58 PM
Back from a weekend road trip. Re-read some Berserk on the way, and noticed a few lines from vol 24 that could help us understand some smaller aspects of what's ahead with the world changing -- particularly questions about what will change with Guts' band.

From vol 24, Schierke says users of the elementally blessed weapons (sylph's sword, cloak, salamander dagger etc.) must envision the faint figures of their respective elementals for them to be effective. Since there is likely no longer any reason for the users to strain their minds and eyes to perceive these figures, I imagine the tools and weapons will be MORE effective, not less so.

And one more, regarding that enigmatic 2-page spread of Guts being bathed in light in ep 205. While at the Spirit Tree, Schierke says the wounds of the group were healed as their "physical bodies adjusted to the forms of your essential ethereal bodies." During which, "minor wounds and new wounds generally heal."

As we all know, Guts has been recovering slowly from the burns and injuries sustained from the Blaze Wheel possession and all other injuries during the escape from Vritannis. I imagine this glimpse we get of Guts' ethereal form (I can't imagine it's anything BUT this) will have the effect of healing his wounds. And since he and the others are now fixed permanently in that state, this could have other, more dramatic effects as well, as have already been speculated upon.

Nothing I've said here is new, and was hinted at by Aaz and others. But I thought this quick perusal through vol 24 for me shed even more light on what's ahead by showing there is a firm basis for speculation.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: DrPepperPro on June 15, 2009, 12:24:00 AM
What do ya'll think about the white hair?  I'd say it's not there in that pic, so it may not be there after the light passes.  I think with the lighter texture spilling over to the side hair and eyebrow kinda, as well as not going over far enough inwards, that it's just coincidental texture, though Miura might have put it there to cause confusion.  But the important part is what Guts thinks of it.  He seemed to dwell on the negative consequences of the Berserk armor alot after SK told him about it.  But then again it's only been like a few weeks max or so?  Also if it is gone, does that mean that he wont further lose his senses from using the Berserk armor, or at the very least the hair turning white since it would imply that he doesn't think much of that? I'd think that that and the senses are the same thing though, but who knows.  Actually the loss of senses may continue to happen, but it might also be continuously healed by the overlaying/merged astral projection.  He'd probably still get the bone puncturing spikes though.

Also, can anyone use the picture with the moon relative to the globe to figure out... anything?  They did something like that in a CSI episode, I don't remember exactly what it was though.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Walter on June 15, 2009, 02:28:43 AM
What do ya'll think about the white hair?  I'd say it's not there in that pic, so it may not be there after the light passes.  I think with the lighter texture spilling over to the side hair and eyebrow kinda, as well as not going over far enough inwards, that it's just coincidental texture, though Miura might have put it there to cause confusion.  But the important part is what Guts thinks of it.  He seemed to dwell on the negative consequences of the Berserk armor alot after SK told him about it.  But then again it's only been like a few weeks max or so?
The scar from Slan across his chest that's still there in Guts' ethereal form is of far more import to the story and to Guts' future. But no, let's discuss the absence of the white hair! :schierke:

You guys are really making WAAAAY too much about the white mark not appearing to be there. What we see in the image is Guts' ethereal self -- the same as when we see his ethereal form in vol 27, Schierke and Farnese's ethereal selves in vol 33, and when we see the light bathe over the Midland nobles in ep 304. The white hair's absense likely just means it is not important enough to have an effect on his ethereal body, or even how Guts perceives himself.

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Also if it is gone, does that mean that he wont further lose his senses from using the Berserk armor, or at the very least the hair turning white since it would imply that he doesn't think much of that? I'd think that that and the senses are the same thing though, but who knows.  Actually the loss of senses may continue to happen, but it might also be continuously healed by the overlaying/merged astral projection.  He'd probably still get the bone puncturing spikes though.
This has absolutely no bearing on the function and consequences of the berserker armor and how it will affect him in the future. I can't even begin to imagine how you would draw a line between the two. The white hair appeared after Guts' forced advent from the Beast's possession of the armor. It was a true ordeal to awaken him, and it appeared directly after that. His senses didn't start to go until later. Remember, SK says that with repeated use, the senses will begin to fade.

Quote
Also, can anyone use the picture with the moon relative to the globe to figure out... anything?  They did something like that in a CSI episode, I don't remember exactly what it was though.
Wow. I don't know about CSI ... but I will say that until about 20 minutes ago, I was a disbeliever that we could see anything clear in the pages of 305 that prove there is any resemblance to our world's maps. However, after some more careful looking (and rotating within photoshop), I managed to find enough to convince even a harsh skeptic. There are unique geographic similarities between this portion of the map and Great Britain. I think what's shown on the page is a kind of psuedo-similar world to ours. This would roughly place Wyndham in our ... Northern Germany?

(CLICK FOR LARGER)

(http://skullknight.net/images/worldresemblance-small1.jpg) (http://skullknight.net/images/worldresemblance-large1.jpg)

And again when we get closer to France, I noticed the unique square-like jutting in on the continent, and if you look closely, the signature shape of the Crozon peninsula at the north-western tip is a bit more pronounced in Miura's world, but still evident:

(http://skullknight.net/images/worldresemblance-small2.jpg) (http://skullknight.net/images/worldresemblance-large2.jpg)

South and east of France are the same three distinct islands that are in our world Ibiza, Palma and Menorca (?), followed by Sardegna and Pallermo, on the tip of Italy. These don't resemble the shapes in real life so much as they do the placement of this sequence of islands.

(http://skullknight.net/images/worldresemblance-small3.jpg) (http://skullknight.net/images/worldresemblance-large3.jpg)

It should (and no doubt will be in subsequent posts) be firmly noted that for as many similarities I found, there are even more inconsistencies. Particularly the northern end of the British isle. And where Ireland "should" be, the land is far too narrow, not to mention malformed, to truly resemble Ireland, even allowing for the distortion of the angle.

In conclusion, I think at this point it's clear that this is Miura's own creation, with some real-world similarities thrown in. That's not surprising, since it's a notion consistent with the entire series. Miura chose to have some similarities, and then made deviations of his own for his own reasons. This is not an exact recreation -- intentionally. Which means that Great Britain is not Ys, despite the geographic similarities described to us, and because of that extra Miura layer, I don't think anything but superfluous and inconsistent details can be extrapolated from any of this.

PS: It should also be noted that Skellig, an island to the west of Midland, is just as it is in our world, an island on the western coast of Ireland :puck:
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: DrPepperPro on June 15, 2009, 08:48:50 AM
The scar may be more important, but isn't it also a simpler question?  Maybe I've got something confused, but aren't their ethereal selves the same as how they are in the astral world?  If it is, then I would guess that the scar is there because it's supposed to be.  It was already carved into Guts' astral form, so even if he doesn't envision it there, it might show up anyways.  Though if he did continue to not envision as a part of himself, it in this new world, it might heal faster.  Or if he does envision it, could it become permanent or last a long time?

OK the white hair isn't important.  And I really liked the almost black swordsman.  We'll just have to wait until Guts eats some soup.


OK so I looked up this quote from that episode of CSI,
Quote
"Ansul Adams often forgot when he took his photographs, so a bunch of astronomers tried to figure it out by using the image itself. By referencing the moon's position in relation to known landmarks, and lunar tables, they were able to determine the date and time the photos were takin'. I thought that we could reverse the science."  (when he says reverse here, he means they have the time and moon position, and they want to find where it's taken from, I think)
and it seems what they did wouldn't really work here.  The "known landmarks" part is probably what would mess it up, even if the rest would work (though it's a bit different since it's the moon looking at the planet).  Unless someone can recognize that lunar geography... ya this isn't gonna work.  Also most likely the moon terrain is completely arbitrarily drawn by Miura.  I was hoping it could somehow lead to a telling what the general time of year/season is, which would help with time stamping the event and the age of characters.

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PS: It should also be noted that Skellig, an island to the west of Midland, is just as it is in our world, an island on the western coast of Ireland :puck:
If that is true, then where do you suppose Vritannis is?  Considering that Griffith's army probably didn't travel by boat, it would be somewhere around the France/Germany area.  Then again, the clouds cover the English Channel, so there could be land there, as well as a connection between Denmark and Norway/Sweden.  The sea voyage probably would go faster than Griffith's march, so the distance from Vritannis to Wyndham should be less the sea route to Skellig, assuming there's no detours or things like that for the ship crew while they're off screen.  Anyways my bet is in this area:

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc145/DrPepperPro/misc/maybe.jpg)

Also Vritannis doesn't necessarily need to be west of Wyndham, but Griffith opposed Ganishka facing east, towards the sunrise.  That to me implies that he came from the west, but he could have detoured from a straight path in order to face him at that angle.

random thought: Will Beherits be constantly in normal face mode?
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 15, 2009, 08:50:39 AM
Come on guys, does a fish see the water around it?

Maybe? Can you say that it doesn't with any certainty?

Perhaps the light didn't just vanish and and is still covering the world and didn't just vanish or fade away, I never thought about it this way before, but the philosophical argument might be that once it encompasses everything it can no longer be seen as there is no distinguish what is covered by light and what isn't.

Thing is, that's pretty much the same thing in the end. Whether the light imbued everything, is still bathing the world, or represented something else doesn't matter. Result is the same. There was a wave of light and people saw the world though their spiritual selves and now it's gone.

I'm just wondering how long it lasted since it wasn't just the actual light but the astral forms of the people that dissapeared as well.

I doubt their spiritual forms really disappeared. We just don't see them anymore, which seems rather logical since the reason we saw them like that was because they were covered with the light.

We can estimate the time from the pictures

No, we can't.

On page 2 we can see the townspeople doing their usual labor. I would assume the plowing was being done in the morning, and the other activities we see in that page. Then we see the light covering the world yada yada... fast forward to page 18 and you see the two men cutting a tree as the hydra and unicorns appear. page 19 shows them running towards the town and the fields are just the first thing they are going to pass by before reaching town. The last page shows the hydra and herpies in the field with the plow just in place. I can only estimate that one of those men was working earlier with the plow and then moved onto the trees. But it looks that is the same day. So we can say it could have been some minutes after the light passed by the town, or hours later until the unicorns and hydra reached the place. I don't know if that satisfies you for now.

I don't know how you can be seriously saying this. You don't even know if that's the same place or the same people. You "estimate" that one of the lumberjacks was plowing the earth earlier? Based on what? I would say that it's unlikely to be the case.

Maybe there's unicorns and stuff in Elfhelm! One can only hope.

I think it's likely there would be some, yes.

From vol 24, Schierke says users of the elementally blessed weapons (sylph's sword, cloak, salamander dagger etc.) must envision the faint figures of their respective elementals for them to be effective. Since there is likely no longer any reason for the users to strain their minds and eyes to perceive these figures, I imagine the tools and weapons will be MORE effective, not less so.

Well it's only the logical conclusion from everything we've seen in the series so far that they'll be more powerful. Not unlike what happens when it's the full moon. That doesn't necessarily mean people won't have to "strain their minds" anymore, but perhaps it will be less so. It's still not certain by any means though.

And one more, regarding that enigmatic 2-page spread of Guts being bathed in light in ep 205. While at the Spirit Tree, Schierke says the wounds of the group were healed as their "physical bodies adjusted to the forms of your essential ethereal bodies." During which, "minor wounds and new wounds generally heal." As we all know, Guts has been recovering slowly from the burns and injuries sustained from the Blaze Wheel possession and all other injuries during the escape from Vritannis. I imagine this glimpse we get of Guts' ethereal form (I can't imagine it's anything BUT this) will have the effect of healing his wounds.

That's a good point actually. It might have the effect of accelerating his recovery. Would be a neat touch.

What do ya'll think about the white hair?  I'd say it's not there in that pic, so it may not be there after the light passes.  I think with the lighter texture spilling over to the side hair and eyebrow kinda, as well as not going over far enough inwards, that it's just coincidental texture, though Miura might have put it there to cause confusion.

That's just the "spiritual filter" being applied to his hair. It's a stylistic effect. I guarantee you the white hair hasn't melted down to half-color the lower part of Guts' hair. :schierke:

But the important part is what Guts thinks of it.  He seemed to dwell on the negative consequences of the Berserk armor alot after SK told him about it.  But then again it's only been like a few weeks max or so?  Also if it is gone, does that mean that he wont further lose his senses from using the Berserk armor, or at the very least the hair turning white since it would imply that he doesn't think much of that? I'd think that that and the senses are the same thing though, but who knows.  Actually the loss of senses may continue to happen, but it might also be continuously healed by the overlaying/merged astral projection.  He'd probably still get the bone puncturing spikes though.

That his white patch of hair appears or not on his spiritual self really isn't related to whether the armor's effects (that have already taken place) will be reversed or not, or whether they will be impaired from now on or anything at all. Furthermore, that it doesn't show up in his spiritual form doesn't mean much other than the fact it's not something he sees as defining who he is (nor a trauma so severe that it couldn't be ignored). That doesn't mean he's not concerned about the armor's side effects. Like you said, it hasn't been very long since he got it. And personally, I don't think he will be continuously healed in a way that would prevent his senses from deteriorating. There is no evidence so far that could lead us to believe the armor will function differently from now on. It might just like it might not.

If that is true, then where do you suppose Vritannis is?

Could be pretty much anywhere honestly. There's no telling how far Guts has traveled.

Also, can anyone use the picture with the moon relative to the globe to figure out... anything?  They did something like that in a CSI episode, I don't remember exactly what it was though.

There's nothing much to figure out really. Only that it has a rugged surface from what we can see of it.

Wow. I don't know about CSI ... but I will say that until about 20 minutes ago, I was a disbeliever that we could see anything clear in the pages of 305 that prove there is any resemblance to our world's maps. However, after some more careful looking (and rotating within photoshop), I managed to find enough to convince even a harsh skeptic. There are unique geographic similarities between this portion of the map and Great Britain. I think what's shown on the page is a kind of psuedo-similar world to ours.

Haha, you Americans. :guts: Don't want to make it sound bad but I'm pretty sure anyone familiar with European geography saw it in a matter of seconds (got to hand it to Funkmasta Zeph though, his hunch was right). I know I did. What I also noticed right away though are the differences. Like you said, while the general arrangement is similar, it's all very distorted, and that's putting it lightly. The landmasses are also too close to each other, or then there are some that don't exist in our world. Same observation on the next pages. There's nothing but the ocean to the right of what would be the equivalent of our African continent. No Indonesia.

This would roughly place Wyndham in our ... Northern Germany?

I think Germany is too close to France for that. It would be more in Eastern Europe, like Poland. Do we really want to start making those comparisons, though? We know where it leads. :SK:

In conclusion, I think at this point it's clear that this is Miura's own creation, with some real-world similarities thrown in. That's not surprising, since it's a notion consistent with the entire series.

Indeed.

Which means that Great Britain is not Eath, despite the geographic similarities described to us, and because of that extra Miura layer, I don't think anything but superfluous and inconsistent details can be extrapolated from any of this.

It should be noted that traditionally, the legendary city of Ys was supposed to have been built off the coast of Brittany.

It should also be noted that Skellig, an island to the west of Midland, is just as it is in our world, an island on the western coast of Ireland :puck:

Only the west of Midland is a pretty large area and that doesn't mean it's where the equivalent of Ireland would be in the Berserk world.

The scar may be more important, but isn't it also a simpler question?

"May be"? No. It definitely is.

Maybe I've got something confused, but aren't their ethereal selves the same as how they are in the astral world?  If it is, then I would guess that the scar is there because it's supposed to be.  It was already carved into Guts' astral form, so even if he doesn't envision it there, it might show up anyways.

Of course. It has nothing to do with him envisioning it. Slan wounded his spiritual body. That's why it's important.

Though if he did continue to not envision as a part of himself, it in this new world, it might heal faster.  Or if he does envision it, could it become permanent or last a long time?

No. You're giving way too much importance to this whole "envisioning" thing. And it's supposed to be deeply subconcious anyway, not something you can will into being.

OK so I looked up this quote from that episode of CSI,and it seems what they did wouldn't really work here.  The "known landmarks" part is probably what would mess it up, even if the rest would work (though it's a bit different since it's the moon looking at the planet).

What wouldn't work is that it's not related to anything at all. I don't think you've really thought about what they supposedly did in that CSI episode. It just doesn't apply to our situation here in any way or form. It's completely useless.

random thought: Will Beherits be constantly in normal face mode?

We don't know yet how they'll be affected. It could go many ways.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: DrPepperPro on June 15, 2009, 09:08:35 AM
What wouldn't work is that it's not related to anything at all. I don't think you've really thought about what they supposedly did in that CSI episode. It just doesn't apply to our situation here in any way or form. It's just completely useless.

I think it does.  The same way a lunar table could be used, one could be created using the angle the moon is above the earth's equator, or something like that, I'm not an astronomer.  I have thought about it, and I believe with real pictures (taken from the surface of the moon, or a known height above), it would work.  Which means I also believe it could be used as an approximation for the Berserk world.  But most importantly, and why I'm not gonna think about it any further, is that Miura probably didn't think of this, meaning that even if an answer could be gotten, it has no importance, because Miura can say the season is whatever he wants it to be.

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No. You're giving way too much importance to this whole "envisioning" thing. And it's supposed to be deeply subconcious anyway, not something you can will into being.

I like to change up my wording for specific things from what other people use.  I know it's a subconcious thing, but I was trying to point out everything I thought about it, to see if it really is a more obvious thing, which is why I wanted to discuss a less obvious thing (to me), the hair.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 15, 2009, 11:08:25 AM
I think it does.  The same way a lunar table could be used, one could be created using the angle the moon is above the earth's equator, or something like that, I'm not an astronomer.

Yeah I know you're not an astronomer, that's why I'm taking the time to tell you nothing can be done with this. For one thing, in the case of Ansel Adams they're talking about pictures of the sky taken from the Earth, not an image of the Earth from the moon. It's only relevant because it could be compared to the lunar tables from the same spots in order to date the pictures. Requiring extensive information. Really, there's nothing you can figure out from that image alone. The two cases are completely unrelated aside from having something to do with the moon, like I already told you.

Which means I also believe it could be used as an approximation for the Berserk world.

An approximation of what? The time the image was drawn?

I like to change up my wording for specific things from what other people use.  I know it's a subconcious thing, but I was trying to point out everything I thought about it, to see if it really is a more obvious thing, which is why I wanted to discuss a less obvious thing (to me), the hair.

Well I have no problem with people using their own words to formulate what they think in general, but keep in mind that we're using some pretty specific words for a good reason here. Often, even though the words are close in meaning, switching one for another can just result in being less accurate.

It's a good example we have here: while we can suppose from the evidence plainly displayed in the manga that Guts' artificial forearm might have subconsciously become something he thinks of as a part of himself (the incident with Casca is the most flagrant example of this, almost definitive proof as it is), it is moving way beyond reasonable speculation to start saying that Guts might not feel the side-effects of the armor if he doesn't concern himself with them. Or to relate the wounds Slan inflicted him to his own perception of himself, as if it mattered. Things are just not that simple.

This is the danger of speculating using notions that aren't necessarily clear in everyone's mind, and that's why I've been repeatedly, laboriously contradicting and rectifying such theories for about as long as I've been an administrator here. It takes very little for people to get the wrong idea or to take things too far, as history has shown us.

Anyway, going back to the hair, not only is it less obvious, but it's also something we can't reliably predict. We know how Guts received his wounds, we know what they are. His hair was a freak accident and we haven't been told the details of how or why it happened. It could be related to the other side effects the armor has (losing one's senses) or not. It could have been affected by the wave of spiritual light or not. For now there's not much more to be said about it that what has already been posted.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: skullnights_pants on June 16, 2009, 04:16:13 PM
I'm confused about the unicorns
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Oburi on June 16, 2009, 04:20:42 PM
I'm confused about the unicorns

Yea we've only discussed every aspect of them in this thread.  :schierke:
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: skullnights_pants on June 16, 2009, 08:42:50 PM
Oh sorry, its 11 pages long, usually I'd read a whole thread but these pages are unlike normal forum pages, they are immensely long!
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: creampuff_war on June 16, 2009, 09:15:36 PM
holy balls. finally; we have reached the cataclysm that brings the worlds together. seriously, since Puck was introduced around, let's see, the first 5 pages of the story, this event has been a forgone conclusion. plus, Guts can now actually slay a dragon with the dragonslayer, probably thanking Godot in the process. i'm loving all the crazy shit going on
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Judas Priestly on June 16, 2009, 09:31:16 PM
Well, if the worlds are becoming one, do you think that they will ever be separated again?  Perhaps that is one of many goals of Griffith's opposition.   Another question is to what extent the overlapping of worlds will be?  Does the vortex of souls count as a layer?  For that matter, will the overlapping extend into the Abyss?   
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: KazigluBey on June 16, 2009, 10:19:33 PM
Well, if the worlds are becoming one, do you think that they will ever be separated again?  Perhaps that is one of many goals of Griffith's opposition.   Another question is to what extent the overlapping of worlds will be?  Does the vortex of souls count as a layer?  For that matter, will the overlapping extend into the Abyss?  

If Griffith is defeated in the end then I'd guess whatever influence he and the Idea of Evil have on the current world would either be completely reversed or at least dissipate. With humans losing their ability to see Elves and other creatures due to the Holy See's religious influence, the creatures they are now exposed to will cause that influence to lessen and might make their ability to see these creatures permanent, at least to some level. Whether or not these creatures continue to exist in the "real world" if things are reversed is anyone's guess.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Dani on June 17, 2009, 05:25:30 AM
Probably the greatest game changing moment of Berserk thus far and there's more interest in hair and unicorns.....  :chomp:

I hope we return to Guts to see his reaction in the next episode but I'm willing to bet there's another episode at least before then.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Johnstantine on June 17, 2009, 01:25:47 PM
The next episode is the end of volume 34 and I can't WAIT to own them all.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Walter on June 22, 2009, 02:19:29 PM
The next episode is the end of volume 34 and I can't WAIT to own them all.
If ep 306 focuses on Griffith, which is likely, then minus a few reaction shots, volume 34 will be the first exclusively Griffith-centric volume in the entire series.  :isidro:

As Aaz mentioned to me a while back, I wonder if that will change the lineup in the volume's character description portion.

Looking forward to it... just a few more days!
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Knight on June 22, 2009, 08:22:33 PM
How about ep 306 focuses on that dudes running from hydra?
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Walter on June 22, 2009, 08:26:47 PM
How about ep 306 focuses on that dudes running from hydra?
I imagine that would be a short episode. :troll:
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 23, 2009, 08:18:10 PM
Well, if the worlds are becoming one, do you think that they will ever be separated again?

Maybe. We know magical creatures were a lot more common back when Flora was young than they were until recently. Somehow most of them progressively disappeared over the centuries (Schierke chalks it up to the Holy See's influence, like KazigluBey said). Maybe that process could be repeated, assuming the situations were similar enough.

Another question is to what extent the overlapping of worlds will be?

Unknown at this point. Are the worlds merged to their fullest extent already? Can they merge even more than they have already? Those are questions we can't answer yet.

Does the vortex of souls count as a layer?  For that matter, will the overlapping extend into the Abyss?

No, the Vortex of Souls doesn't count as a layer of the astral world. It's part of the "ocean" that exists at the bottom of the astral world, which can itself be considered a layer. The Vortex of Souls is only one region of said ocean. If the merging became extreme and extended across all the layers, then maybe the Vortex and the Abyss would appear in the corporeal world. That would definitely be cataclysmic though.

If Griffith is defeated in the end then I'd guess whatever influence he and the Idea of Evil have on the current world would either be completely reversed or at least dissipate. With humans losing their ability to see Elves and other creatures due to the Holy See's religious influence, the creatures they are now exposed to will cause that influence to lessen and might make their ability to see these creatures permanent, at least to some level. Whether or not these creatures continue to exist in the "real world" if things are reversed is anyone's guess.

I think it's hard to say for sure. For one thing, even if the whole God Hand was eradicated, nothing says the Idea of Evil would lose all influence over humanity. The little we know about it doesn't hint at any such thing. Maybe a slow dissipating process would start again though, that's a possibility. It's certainly hard to believe those fantastical creatures slowly disappeared solely through the influence of the Holy See.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: KazigluBey on June 23, 2009, 09:09:43 PM
I think it's hard to say for sure. For one thing, even if the whole God Hand was eradicated, nothing says the Idea of Evil would lose all influence over humanity. The little we know about it doesn't hint at any such thing. Maybe a slow dissipating process would start again though, that's a possibility. It's certainly hard to believe those fantastical creatures slowly disappeared solely through the influence of the Holy See.

I thought I saw some dialog in one of the episodes that said that the influence of the Holy See was responsible for making it difficult or impossible for humans to see creatures like Elves, etc.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 23, 2009, 09:21:37 PM
I thought I saw some dialog in one of the episodes that said that the influence of the Holy See was responsible for making it difficult or impossible for humans to see creatures like Elves, etc.

Schierke says so in episode 206. Only it's not that simple. Do you really think the "influence of the Holy See" as described in that episode could somehow make all the creatures we're seeing right now vanish by itself? I don't think so myself. You can't wish something out of existence and Schierke actually says as much. Just like how the spectres had their fun with Farnese at the beginning of volume 17 regardless of what she wanted to believe.

For people to be able to forget, ignore or stop believing in all those supernatural creatures and phenomena, they must have already been low-key enough at the time.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Rhombaad on June 23, 2009, 09:24:48 PM
I agree. While the Holy See's influence might have strengthened Man's inability to see beings from the spiritual world, I doubt it was the original cause. For one thing, we have no idea how long the Holy See has even been around. Something might have happened to suppress creatures and objects from the spiritual world way before the Holy See came into existence.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 23, 2009, 09:34:40 PM
For one thing, we have no idea how long the Holy See has even been around.

And as far as we know, its scriptures do contain references to actual supernatural creatures and events (the four elemental kings, the prophecy of the Falcon of Darkness).

Something might have happened to suppress creatures and objects from the spiritual world way before the Holy See came into existence.

Or around the same time. Something akin to a separation of the worlds, or maybe a thickening of the borders between them.

If we want to go out on a limb, we can even speculate that the Holy See might have been started specifically for the purpose of diminishing the influence of the spiritual on the corporeal, maybe following some cataclysmic event(s) that had occurred not long before at the time. And it could also be that over time, that purpose was slowly twisted so it would serve the purposes of the Idea of Evil, establishing a Falcon of Light figure that would fit Griffith perfectly (but then again, maybe it was the other way around and Griffith was tailor-made to fit that myth). Of course, this is assuming that the Idea of Evil wasn't behind it all from the very beginning (in which case it could have planned both the Falcon of Light figure and Griffith together), which isn't sure at all.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: KazigluBey on June 24, 2009, 03:50:12 AM
Schierke says so in episode 206. Only it's not that simple. Do you really think the "influence of the Holy See" as described in that episode could somehow make all the creatures we're seeing right now vanish by itself? I don't think so myself. You can't wish something out of existence and Schierke actually says as much. Just like how the spectres had their fun with Farnese at the beginning of volume 17 regardless of what she wanted to believe.

For people to be able to forget, ignore or stop believing in all those supernatural creatures and phenomena, they must have already been low-key enough at the time.

We're talking about people being unable to see them, not that they vanish or disappear from whatever realm they exist in right? I'm not talking about them being physically banished to some other place, just that people can't see them for whatever reason.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 24, 2009, 05:19:30 PM
We're talking about people being unable to see them, not that they vanish or disappear from whatever realm they exist in right? I'm not talking about them being physically banished to some other place, just that people can't see them for whatever reason.

Judas Priestly was speaking of the different worlds being separated again, so we're talking about astral creatures disappearing from the corporeal world (but not from the astral world, of course). People being unable to see elves (which is really more like an extreme form of not paying attention to them) might work with (mostly) harmless beings to some extent, but as shown in volume 17, it doesn't work when the shit hits the fan. People are never going to be unable to see a dragon if it rampages their town, regardless of the Holy See's teachings. It wouldn't make much sense otherwise, anyway.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: yota821 on June 28, 2009, 03:10:34 AM
I searched for it, don't think anyone's posted it yet: I wonder what Schierke's reaction was when the worlds merged?  She already had a fairly pronounced reaction when Slan temporarily manifested in the Qliphoth, so I'm wondering how she much more of a reaction she might've had with not just the 4 God Hand, but the entire astral world merged with the corporeal?  Would she become even more powerful, or would she be knocked out (coma, perhaps) but the sudden rush of Od?  

Maybe it's way out there, but I was just thinking that, since the only reaction from the crew was Guts'.
Title: Re: Episode 305
Post by: Aazealh on June 28, 2009, 07:51:16 AM
I searched for it, don't think anyone's posted it yet: I wonder what Schierke's reaction was when the worlds merged?

Hmm, pretty sure we talked about it, if not in this thread then in the previous one.

She already had a fairly pronounced reaction when Slan temporarily manifested in the Qliphoth, so I'm wondering how she much more of a reaction she might've had with not just the 4 God Hand, but the entire astral world merged with the corporeal?  Would she become even more powerful, or would she be knocked out (coma, perhaps) but the sudden rush of Od?

Perhaps more pertinent than Slan's appearance (I believe proximity made a difference in that case), we also saw her reaction when Ganishka came back into the world in episode 296. And she called it a disaster. I wouldn't be surprised if it left her panicked or disoriented at first, or if it basically scared her shitless because she'd know how much of a catastrophe it really is.