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Berserk => Current Episodes => Topic started by: Aazealh on February 23, 2010, 09:34:17 AM

Title: Episode 312
Post by: Aazealh on February 23, 2010, 09:34:17 AM
Title: 鳴る瀬ろの娘 - Aquatic girl (http://www.younganimal.com/berserk/)



There'll be a break after the next episode. Duration unknown.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Jaze1618 on February 23, 2010, 09:40:19 AM
Thats too bad.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Aazealh on February 23, 2010, 10:59:58 AM
Rough summary: Isidro want to search the cave but finds nothing. He gets wounded though and so they go to the girl's house, but he drops his dagger somehow. The girl is carelessly enticing so he's overwhelmed. Schierke finds the dagger on her own, tracking his Od, then joins up with them.



From the last panel it looks like... the girl could be the sea god(dess)? Or maybe she's just possessed or something.

Makes me think: what if the spirits Schierke used to summon can now wander in the world under human guises? Also, Schierke tracking Isidro all by herself, and walking in on him being dazzled by this girl... Sounds like the perfect set for a budding but unrecognized and unavowed romance! :guts:
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Bekul on February 23, 2010, 11:51:10 AM
Woohoo!

Alright, first thought is, that girl somehow reminds me of that cat we saw in the previous episode.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Aazealh on February 23, 2010, 11:56:40 AM
Alright, first thought is, that girl somehow reminds me of that cat we saw in the previous episode.

But how could she be the cat since she was already with Isidro in the previous episode? Anyway, the girl's name might be "Isma" (イスマ).

And regarding the last panel, I think it could be a shot of the girl viewed through Schierke's "astral vision". Maybe it's like I originally speculated in the previous thread and she's a sort of siren-like creature.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Jaze1618 on February 23, 2010, 12:24:00 PM
But how could she be the cat since she was already with Isidro in the previous episode? Anyway, the girl's name might be "Isma" (イスマ).

And regarding the last panel, I think it could be a shot of the girl viewed through Schierke's "astral vision".

Interesting that she should be surrounded by fish then. Thanks for the preview pics and summary!
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: puella on February 23, 2010, 12:39:16 PM
And regarding the last panel, I think it could be a shot of the girl viewed through Schierke's "astral vision".

I think it might rather be the girl's reaction to Schierke, suddenly becoming aggressive as she notices her power (as a witch).
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Aazealh on February 23, 2010, 12:46:14 PM
Interesting that she should be surrounded by fish then.

Well if we assume she has special powers it would make sense for them to be sea-related, given the context. Anyhow, I wonder if she was telling Isidro the truth about the cave in the previous episode...

I think it might rather be the girl's reaction to Schierke, suddenly becoming aggressive as she notices her power (as a witch).

Why not, though both possibilities are not mutually exclusive in this case.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Walter on February 23, 2010, 01:47:43 PM
I'm leaning toward Aaz' thought that the girl is a wandering astral entity now able to appear in human form. The last image there is very ... eye-catching. Looks like she's saying something in monster-speak too, just from the tiny glimpse we get her in this image (check the lower right side).
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Gobolatula on February 23, 2010, 02:56:50 PM
Now, I know it doesn't seem all that possible, but WHAT IF this girl were to join the group..? If she is the sea god or some sort of astral being, she doesn't seem all that evil.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Walter on February 23, 2010, 02:58:53 PM
Now, I know it doesn't seem all that possible, but WHAT IF this girl were to join the group..? If she is the sea god or some sort of astral being, she doesn't seem all that evil.
It'd be pretty cool to add someone like that to the main cast. It'd provide a lot of insight into that world. But I don't think it's likely... Maybe!

I'd also like to hypothesize that while we're assuming she's an astral entity, that last shot could just be her reaction to when she goes underwater and sees the Sea God rising up from the depths.  :magni:
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Aazealh on February 23, 2010, 03:01:01 PM
I think it might rather be the girl's reaction to Schierke

I was right. :iva:

Now, I know it doesn't seem all that possible, but WHAT IF this girl were to join the group..? If she is the sea god or some sort of astral being, she doesn't seem all that evil.

Could be very interesting. Nothing's done though.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Uriel on February 23, 2010, 03:04:57 PM
Just finished reading the episode. Title is "See you all in August!" 鳴る瀬ろの娘 so, Daughter of the Roaring Rapids?

Will be sending it for the rest of you =)

Also, her name is Isuma. Google tells me it means "to think" in Inuit.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Aazealh on February 23, 2010, 03:10:52 PM
Also, her name is Isuma. Google tells me it means "to think" in Inuit.

Or just Isma and it has no particular meaning, like I suggested earlier?
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Buy Berserk! on February 23, 2010, 03:13:01 PM
Very interesting episode... What awaits our heroes?
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Uriel on February 23, 2010, 03:13:32 PM
Or just Isma and it has no particular meaning, like I suggested earlier?

Sure it does, if you look at the big picture.

Her last name is probably "Char" and as you know in the Japanese naming tradition, the family name goes first :P [/clutchingatstraws]

But, yeah, didn't see your post.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Aazealh on February 23, 2010, 03:39:34 PM
Her last name is probably "Char" and as you know in the Japanese naming tradition, the family name goes first :P [/clutchingatstraws]

You!! :mozgus:

Anyway, the villagers are transformed, like the pirates! And Schierke was attacked by another, smaller sea cucumber? The plot thickens. :guts:

Some rough elements from the episode: Isidro says that if he's afraid of danger, he can't really be adventurous. The girl (whom I shall call "Isma" for now) tells him that this sea god is horrible, that it sinks ships and eats humans. Back at the village Schierke says the idol represents an ancient god. She explains that in the world at large the main religion(s) have prevailed over time but that on this small island, this old god from the bottom of the astral world has remained active. She wants to search the island and tells the others to go ahead at the inn without her. They're all worried but she tells them that an island like this is safer for her than a city. The girl wants to hear many details about the group's journey and treats Isidro well. She's also delighted to see Schierke when she arrives.

Also the episode title seems to be pretty complicated (from some old Japanese song), more about that later.



I think it's interesting that Schierke has to go after Isidro this time around, it contrasts nicely to what happened in Vritannis. Also, I think the Sea God is indeed a big ugly monster (could it actually be the creature controlling the ghost ship?) and not our friend Isma. I'm leaning more towards her being either a spirit/astral creature in human form or a gifted child à la Sonia for now (or a crazy variation/combination of these and more). Notice how she doesn't seem to have legs on the last page? Could she be a sort of mermaid?
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Marik on February 23, 2010, 04:36:49 PM
Again weird elements. I think it's hard to say what is going to happen.

But the most strange thing is that around that island seems to be gathered people turned into supernatural being, other sea cocumber and this weird girl that seems a mermaid/water spirit.
It's not clear if this Sea God is just malevolent.



Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Aazealh on February 23, 2010, 04:40:39 PM
But the most strange thing is that around that island seems to be gathered people turned into supernatural being, other sea cocumber and this weird girl that seems a mermaid/water spirit.
It's not clear if this Sea God is just malevolent.

I think it's very clear the Sea God is malevolent, on the contrary. Current thoughts so far: The Sea God came forth when the worlds merged (maybe because the inhabitants still had a cult for it). The island is its base of operations (it transformed all the humans there), but it wanders far enough that it could transform the pirates as well (it was probably attracted by the residual evil on their ship). The girl was not transformed because she is not human, even though we don't know what she is yet. That is why she went to Isidro, probably to protect him (because she knew of the danger). She is most likely benevolent.

The Sea God might be what controls the ship. But it might also be in the cave. Of course those two possibilities are not mutually exclusive: the ghost ship might have returned to the cave since dawn was breaking. What is to consider is how much power this "god" has. We know it has transformed sea cucumbers into giant monsters and has them do its bidding. We know it can transform humans, maybe leaving them some degree of free will but still having a form of control over them. What else can it do? What are its limits? And can our friends deal with it without suffering various losses in the process? (while typing this I was reminded of what Silat tells the Tapasa in volume 18 as they watch Guts in the distance)
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Marik on February 23, 2010, 04:54:07 PM
I think it's very clear the Sea God is malevolent, on the contrary. Current thoughts so far: The Sea God came forth when the worlds merged (maybe because the inhabitants still had a cult for it). The island is its base of operations (it transformed all the humans there), but it wanders far enough that it could transform the pirates as well (it was probably attracted by the residual evil on their ship).

Yes I think that's correct.

The girl was not transformed because she is not human, even though we don't know what she is yet. That is why she went to Isidro, probably to protect him (because she knew of the danger). She is most likely benevolent.

And I was meaning something like that, since the girl wasn't involved in the transformation. But I think that as you say the reason lies in her supernatural spirit. Now I wonder if the Sea God curse(or what it is) targets randomly or even the Roderick crew and Guts party are in danger.

The Sea God might be what controls the ship. But it might also be in the cave. Of course those two possibilities are not mutually exclusive: the ghost ship might have returned to the cave since dawn was breaking. What is to consider is how much power this "god" has. We know it has transformed sea cucumbers into giant monsters and has them do its bidding. We know it can transform humans, maybe leaving them some degree of free will but still having a form of control over them. What else can it do? What are its limits? And can our friends deal with it without suffering various losses in the process?

Interesting point.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Aazealh on February 23, 2010, 04:58:29 PM
But I think that as you say the reason lies in her supernatural spirit. Now I wonder if the Sea God curse(or what it is) targets randomly or even the Roderick crew and Guts party are in danger.

I think they're all in danger if they're caught. We don't know what the transformation process is (something pretty gross I imagine :iva:) but it probably requires the Sea God to show itself.

By the way, notice how the villagers all stay inside? It's not just because they don't like strangers: they're vulnerable to sunlight, like all evil spirits.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Marik on February 23, 2010, 05:10:29 PM
By the way, notice how the villagers all stay inside? It's not just because they don't like strangers: they're vulnerable to sunlight, like all evil spirits.

And like the pirates? Yes I think that's about it.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Skeleton on February 23, 2010, 05:13:11 PM
Is it safe to assume that those fish surrounding the Schierke and the girl in the last few panels are undines like how the salamanders cover Isidro's dagger and sylphs cover Serpico's cloak and sword?  Or are they unique to her "powers?"
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Aazealh on February 23, 2010, 05:14:01 PM
Is it safe to assume that those fish surrounding the Schierke and the girl in the last few panels are undines like how the salamanders cover Isidro's dagger and sylphs cover Serpico's cloak and sword?  Or are they unique to her "powers?"

Undines usually look different, so I think they're unique to Isma.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: TheBranded1 on February 23, 2010, 05:22:35 PM
Nice episode. Since you guys cover most of the important questions. Since Aaz already pointed out that they're all in danger, I wonder if the people will attack right away after the sun sets? And how much Isma and Schierke will talk about?
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: geo jee on February 23, 2010, 05:27:50 PM
WOW..a new Episode...yet strange change in the way I thought the plot was going to be...but that's Miura after all...the Best.

By the way, notice how the villagers all stay inside? It's not just because they don't like strangers: they're vulnerable to sunlight, like all evil spirits.

So is this like an EVIL ISLAND or something..that's strange that Schierke and Guts didn't even say something about them while walking by.
I mean at least Casca would cry or scream..I know there was an Evil Od but didn't consider the villagers to be like that.

Undines usually look different, so I think they're unique to Isma.

So She is really not human.
she could be an apostle, I wish she is a good character though...like to see a new comer to the group. :daiba:
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Skeleton on February 23, 2010, 05:32:26 PM
Undines usually look different, so I think they're unique to Isma.

Sounds good to me.  I figured that wasn't them, but I wanted to double-check with those more intelligent than myself.

I'm very excited to see how this plays out.  I was one of those who believed that the pirates probably had nothing to do with the island or its god.  It's really surprising, and great, to see them connected.  This new girl has my full attention.  I'm very interested in finding out more about her, or rather her nature, as well as the Sea God itself.  There was a feeling of "creepiness" that the island provoked in the last episode.  That feeling has only been amplified.  There's also the dread that comes at the thought of what will happen should they find themselves still on the island once the sun sets.

This is such a great episode.  It's so exciting.  I can't stop thinking about it.   :guts:
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Walter on February 23, 2010, 05:33:37 PM
So is this like an EVIL ISLAND or something..that's strange that Schierke and Guts didn't even say something about them while walking by.

I mean at least Casca would cry or scream..I know there was an Evil Od but didn't consider the villagers to be like that.
Think back to the conversation between Guts and Schierke last episode for the answer.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: geo jee on February 23, 2010, 05:39:33 PM
Think back to the conversation between Guts and Schierke last episode for the answer.


no I meant that they didn't speak about the villagers themselves, they only talked about the ISLAND while walking by them, like if they felt that the villagers were EVIL, they would have done something other than talking.

besides, Guts said that if a major thing comes in the way, he would feel it, but he seem to have missed Isma, or whatever her name is.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Aazealh on February 23, 2010, 05:39:46 PM
Since Aaz already pointed out that they're all in danger, I wonder if the people will attack right away after the sun sets? And how much Isma and Schierke will talk about?

Well they could even start attacking the group right now since they're inside the inn. Of course I imagine they will only get stronger once the night falls. As for Isma and Schierke, whatever happens it promises to be very interesting.

So is this like an EVIL ISLAND or something..that's strange that Schierke and Guts didn't even say something about them while walking by.

...Are you serious? Schierke commented on it in the previous episode. Guts' brand was bleeding abundantly. How clearer could it be? And it's not really the island itself that's evil, but the being that has made it its lair...

she could be an apostle

:schierke: No.

This new girl has my full attention.  I'm very interested in finding out more about her, or rather her nature, as well as the Sea God itself.  There was a feeling of "creepiness" that the island provoked in the last episode.  That feeling has only been amplified.  There's also the dread that comes at the thought of what will happen should they find themselves still on the island once the sun sets.

Yup. And this new girl that everyone already likes... Might be a casualty of the battle to come.

no I meant that they didn't speak about the villagers themselves, they only talked about the ISLAND while walking by them, like if they felt that the villagers were EVIL, they would have done something other than talking.

Schierke said a powerful Od covered the whole island. That speaks of a tremendous power. The villagers are small fry in comparison so it's really not that surprising.

besides, Guts said that if a major thing comes in the way, he would feel it, but he seem to have missed Isma, or whatever her name is.

She didn't get anywhere close to him. You should pay a little more attention man.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Griffith on February 23, 2010, 05:43:07 PM
My favorite scene has to be them in the Inn/Bar, I was thinking the same thing as Guts when looking over their new townie friends. :ganishka:

Also, it's even creepier that these freaks aren't attacking them, but just sort of avoiding the issue... for some reason that more than anything makes me wonder if Isma isn't the God(dess) herself, keeping her forces at bay while she satisfies her curiosity about these new visitors... though I still lean toward the idea of her being another, more benevolent, spirit or medium (like Aaz said, perhaps daylight is what's keeping things mellow in the village =).

BTW, seeing the shark jaws on the wall made me hope it was foreshadowing of a shark God, of course, the tentacled idol belies that idea, then it hit me...

(http://www.skullknight.net/griffith/sharktopus3.jpg)
SHARKTOPUS!

P.S. That's not a closed eye on the idol, it's a closed mouth. :guts:
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: geo jee on February 23, 2010, 05:51:34 PM

...Are you serious? Schierke commented on it in the previous episode. Guts' brand was bleeding abundantly. How clearer could it be? And it's not really the island itself that's evil, but the being that has made it its lair...

then how could they just walk by..that's all I am saying if you feel danger threat of the villagers why,walk by, asking for help to find an inn?


Schierke said a powerful Od covered the whole island. That speaks of a tremendous power. The villagers are small fry in comparison so it's really not that surprising.

That's my point, why then letting the group walk by them?

She didn't get anywhere close to him. You should pay a little more attention man.


Guts usually feels Evil Ods when they are away, remember the skeleton wheels in Vol.18, and besides, if She is a Sea Goddess, she doesn't need to come any close.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Aazealh on February 23, 2010, 05:58:11 PM
then how could they just walk by..that's all I am saying if you feel danger threat of the villagers why,walk by, asking for help to find an inn?

Schierke did not feel that the villagers were a threat, but that a threatening Od enveloped the island. Like I said.

That's my point, why then letting the group walk by them?

No, that's not your point. And Schierke warned them, but they had no choice. Seriously, please carefully re-read episode 311.

Guts usually feels Evil Ods when they are away, remember the skeleton wheels in Vol.18

Remember episode 311 when Guts said the Brand didn't allow him to feel the presence of evil as sharply as before.

besides, if She is a Sea Goddess, she doesn't need to come any close.

We don't know what she is. I doubt she's the "Sea God" personally. In any case, the fact Guts didn't detect her presence invalidates the point you're trying to make.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: geo jee on February 23, 2010, 06:05:52 PM
We don't know what she is. I doubt she's the "Sea God" personally. In any case, the fact Guts didn't detect her presence invalidates the point you're trying to make.

If she is a major threat or Od, she is actually validating your point that Guts' Brand didn't allow him to feel the presence of evil as sharply as before.

what I am trying to say, he can't feel her (which I greatly believe she is a BIG entity) normally as he used with others before, due to the merging.

and Aaz I'm not trying to say you are wrong, so just have mercy on me, man.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Dar Klink on February 23, 2010, 06:08:24 PM
I'm wondering if they defeat the Sea God here, and all the townsfolk(that are still alive :troll:) go back to normal, if the pirates will go back to normal...
Perhaps the last meeting with them won't be a giant fight, their ship is already wrecked, and without the creature inhabiting it, it will most likely sink. Maybe they'll run into them on the wreckage of their ship as they leave Elfhelm? Or maybe they'll wash ashore Skellig? :casca:
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Aazealh on February 23, 2010, 06:09:52 PM
If she is a major threat or Od, she is actually validating your point that Guts' Brand didn't allow him to feel the presence of evil as sharply as before.  

Well like I said I don't think she's a threat, but she's obviously not simply a random girl either (Schierke's reaction was pretty brutal). I think she probably is quite powerful, but not enough that Guts could feel her presence over the Sea God's Od from a distance (especially since the Brand works best when it comes to detecting evil, and I don't think she's evil).

what I am trying to say, he can't feel her (which I greatly believe she is a BIG entity) normally as he used with others before, due to the merging.

I think it's a little more complicated than that, see what I said above.

and Aaz I'm not trying to say you are wrong, so just have mercy on me, man.

But... I already am being merciful. :casca:

I'm wondering if they defeat the Sea God here, and all the townsfolk(that are still alive :troll:) go back to normal, if the pirates will go back to normal... Perhaps the last meeting with them won't be a giant fight, their ship is already wrecked, and without the creature inhabiting it, it will most likely sink. Maybe they'll run into them on the wreckage of their ship as they leave Elfhelm? Or maybe they'll wash ashore Skellig? :casca:

Would be pretty funny to see. :ganishka: Someone mentioned the pirates from the Astérix series in the previous thread and that would be reminiscent of their usual fate.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Bekul on February 23, 2010, 06:19:30 PM
Y'know, it's possible that what the villagers have turned into could simply be something neutral, closer to semi-intelligent wild animal than 'monster out for carnage and blood' or 'human' - I'm really eager for the translation before I try to say anything intelligent on the matter - and y'know, those mini-tentacles that Schierke admit /were/ kind of cute...  :carcus:
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Walter on February 23, 2010, 06:20:49 PM
I'm wondering if they defeat the Sea God here, and all the townsfolk(that are still alive :troll:) go back to normal, if the pirates will go back to normal...
The pirates were likely killed before or while they were turned into monsters though. From Ep 311: 'Boss: You bastards disrespect the dead! You'll be cursed!!'

So even if Guts and Co. manage to kill the source of the curse, them returning to normal humans after that seems unlikely to me.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Aazealh on February 23, 2010, 06:22:36 PM
Y'know, it's possible that what the villagers have turned into could simply be something neutral, closer to semi-intelligent wild animal than 'monster out for carnage and blood' or 'human'

The pirates have retained a somewhat high level of intelligence though, and weren't very friendly. I guess the villagers could be naturally non-aggressive, but what we see of them in this episode doesn't make me think it's the case.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Bekul on February 23, 2010, 06:23:52 PM
True, but they were pirates to begin with, not villagers. Not that villagers can't be ruthless - but, if nothing else, the fact that they didn't attack them in the in has gotten me very intrigued.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Aazealh on February 23, 2010, 06:32:37 PM
Random speculation, but I wonder if there's more to the cave than we saw so far. Maybe it leads to a deeper territory within the astral world... Kind of like the Qliphoth. Although for a "Sea God" that would imply somewhere underwater.

True, but they were pirates to begin with, not villagers. Not that villagers can't be ruthless - but, if nothing else, the fact that they didn't attack them in the in has gotten me very intrigued.

Think of what would be the most interesting though:

1) The villagers think they have the intruders trapped inside and attack them.
2) Nothing happens.

I rest my case. :iva:
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Walter on February 23, 2010, 09:36:47 PM
Finally got to see the episode after being stuck at work for a while. The villagers sure are creepy... I'm wondering about this strange girl. She's so enthusiastic and odd, I was thinking that maybe she's new to the world above the sea. Perhaps before the merging, she was trapped under the ocean. And with that newfound freedom, she's excited about everything above the sea.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Aazealh on February 23, 2010, 09:40:16 PM
maybe she's new to the world above the sea. Perhaps before the merging, she was trapped under the ocean. And with that newfound freedom, she's excited about everything above the sea.

Yeah, I think her behavior and interests pretty much give it away. If so, it will make it all the more interesting to see whether she sticks around or goes back to whence she came once it'll be all over (that is, if she survives).
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Mage on February 24, 2010, 01:22:28 AM
Weird town...that tavern's/inn's sign looks like it features a symbol version of a "devil whale" that we saw in episode 308, underneath the jug.  And yeah, that astral pic of Isma does give a mermaid impression...maybe she's a sea nymph
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Gobolatula on February 24, 2010, 01:50:38 AM
Fantastic episode. I gotta say, the whole end portion was a breath of fresh air with all the hilarity, joke-wise and art-wise. My favorite part of the whole episode is Schierke looking through Isidro's eyes and seeing titties right in his/her face. Her expression is priceless.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Lithrael on February 24, 2010, 02:04:25 AM
Heh! She's Ponyo! Seriously some of those expressions really look like Miura's version of a Miyazaki girl.
(The one on p18 especially. that is like THE excited Miyazaki girl face.)

LOVING this story arc.  SO HARD.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Aphasia on February 24, 2010, 03:34:32 AM
I noticed that too! something about her eye shape and her really eager/overly happy expression made me think of ghibli girls.  This is getting really interesting...

However, I don't think she's actually transformed.  It looks more like Schierke's seeing her true self through her "astral vision" like someone else said.  I can't wait to see where this leads...and how she's possibly linked to the sea god. 

There's something fishy a'brewin... :guts:
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: TheBranded1 on February 24, 2010, 03:46:22 AM
. My favorite part of the whole episode is Schierke looking through Isidro's eyes and seeing titties right in his/her face. Her expression is priceless.
:ganishka:
I liked Puck's priest impersonation as well.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Death May Die on February 24, 2010, 04:21:07 AM
tentacled idol belies that idea, then it hit me...

(http://www.skullknight.net/griffith/sharktopus3.jpg)
SHARKTOPUS!


SHARKTOPUS!!!!  :guts:

Great episode.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Aazealh on February 24, 2010, 09:54:14 AM
You know, reading this episode (and the previous one) I can't help but be amazed at Miura's talent for creating tangible atmospheres, specifically in this case how he depicts the tavern. It's just wonderfully executed, and it reminded me of the ball in volume 30 when the tigers attack and the lights go off.

I also love the little shot of the sea cucumber tentacles rising from the water on page 14. Anyway, I was thinking back about the wave that sends Isidro down on page 2 yesterday, and I'm wondering if it's not something Isma did herself to prevent him from going further into the cave.

Heh! She's Ponyo! Seriously some of those expressions really look like Miura's version of a Miyazaki girl.
(The one on p18 especially. that is like THE excited Miyazaki girl face.)

You know what makes you think so? It's her eyes. Their roundness. :slan:

However, I don't think she's actually transformed.  It looks more like Schierke's seeing her true self through her "astral vision" like someone else said.

Yeah, she's definitely not transformed; I don't even know how one could think that given the way it's brought up.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Death May Die on February 24, 2010, 10:10:37 AM
You know, reading this episode (and the previous one) I can't help but be amazed at Miura's talent for creating tangible atmospheres, specifically in this case how he depicts the tavern. It's just wonderfully executed, and it reminded me of the ball in volume 30 when the tigers attack and the lights go off.

I also love the little shot of the sea cucumber tentacles rising from the water on page 14. Anyway, I was thinking back about the wave that sends Isidro down on page 2 yesterday, and I'm wondering if it's not something Isma did herself to prevent him from going further into the cave.

You know what makes you think so? It's her eyes. Their roundness. :slan:

Yeah, she's definitely not transformed; I don't even know how one could think that given the way it's brought up.

I'm assuming they're on the right island. I'm just speculating here but Schierke's vision reminds me of her experiences summoning the element gods in the other layers. Her vision didn't really reflect a being in the present world, but something within another layer. (She hasn't reacted like this with other apostles has she, visions and such?)
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Aazealh on February 24, 2010, 10:44:45 AM
I'm assuming they're on the right island.

The right island for what? It's not Skellig, if that's what you're implying.

I'm just speculating here but Schierke's vision reminds me of her experiences summoning the element gods in the other layers. Her vision didn't really reflect a being in the present world, but something within another layer.

You mean summoning spirits from the astral world? Anyway, like I said, she's just astrally seeing Isma's true nature.

(She hasn't reacted like this with other apostles has she, visions and such?)

The girl is not an apostle.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Griffith on February 24, 2010, 05:08:02 PM
You know, reading this episode (and the previous one) I can't help but be amazed at Miura's talent for creating tangible atmospheres, specifically in this case how he depicts the tavern. It's just wonderfully executed, and it reminded me of the ball in volume 30 when the tigers attack and the lights go off.

Same, that's why that's my favorite part, along with Guts just sitting down casually with a large group of friends and acquaintances, like a normal person (even the monsters they're sitting near are just being like normal strangers haha). Anyway, what amazes me is how much Miura has effectively established/accomplished in an episode and a half. The beginning of the last ep was still dealing with pirate aftermath, and it now already feels like we're knee deep in this island mystery when it really only just began, out of the blue, two weeks ago (about two minutes in Berserk fan time =).
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: feralotter on February 25, 2010, 12:57:44 AM
How can you not love the feel of this island. Now with bizarre interactions with villagers. Fantastic.

And the two sitting at the table just eating raw fish? WTF? I think that furthers the case for the towns people being possessed by the sea god, like the pirates, and they are acting as extensions of 'it' including apparently it's dietary habits.

Indulge me in wild speculation - could this be a case where they find it not worth going to the mat and fighting the monster on this island?  Now that the layers have merged, there is a large population of other-worldy beings with their own agenda roaming the earth.  Guts and co. can't possibly take on each one they meet that appears to have dubious motives. There isn't clear indication (yet) that the place is downright "evil" like Qliphoth but rather...strange...albeit sinister. Maybe it just wants to eat fish, not humans. Sleeping dogs and such.

Probably not though. I don't know if we've seen a substantiated astral being engaging in self-restraint and moderation, enough to warrant a pass, besides the innately good ones.  :chomp:  :puck:

Besides, maybe the gang takes on a Miura-creation inspired by Cthulhu? :drool:
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: D-Scape on February 25, 2010, 01:19:13 PM
You know, reading this episode (and the previous one) I can't help but be amazed at Miura's talent for creating tangible atmospheres, specifically in this case how he depicts the tavern.

I was impressed with the tavern as well. Not a place I'd want to have dinner anytime soon. Its ominous atmosphere, along with the fish-eating couple at the table reminded me of a creepier version of Vincent van Gogh's famous The Potato Eaters:

(http://mcmvanbree.com/dutchroots/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/potato_eaters.jpg)

Now I'm tempted to paint a parody picture called The Fish Eaters!
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Theoden on February 25, 2010, 02:27:57 PM
Well, I have to say I really enjoy this episode's atmosphere. The tone of this episode has something great, kind of little entairtainment. Isidro seems to have a good time  :carcus: with this mysterious girl, and the other part of the crew seems to get a little rest/peace for now.

But actually, it's like some joyful moments before something terrible happens. I don't know why, (maybe because of the inhabitants of the island are strange and "werehuman," or because of this girl, or also this strange thing in this recess, that are like omens of what is to come, some potential dangers) but I feel something terrible is going to happen... :femto:
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Aazealh on February 25, 2010, 02:34:21 PM
And the two sitting at the table just eating raw fish? WTF? I think that furthers the case for the towns people being possessed by the sea god, like the pirates, and they are acting as extensions of 'it' including apparently it's dietary habits.

The case doesn't really need furthering though. They don't look very normal. :ganishka:

Indulge me in wild speculation - could this be a case where they find it not worth going to the mat and fighting the monster on this island?

I speculated about that a few days ago and yeah, it would be interesting, but the thing is, I'm not sure the Sea God itself will want to let them go. If it is indeed what was controlling the ghost ship, then it will probably have a grudge. Besides, Isma clearly tells Isidro it's an evil entity that sinks ships and eats humans.

There isn't clear indication (yet) that the place is downright "evil" like Qliphoth but rather...strange...albeit sinister. Maybe it just wants to eat fish, not humans. Sleeping dogs and such.

The island itself isn't anything like the Qliphoth. The Qliphoth was an astral territory whereas this place is apparently "just" under the influence of the malevolent creature known as the sea god. Said sea god is definitely described as being downright evil however (see my previous paragraph).
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Deathbringer on February 25, 2010, 08:23:26 PM
Wow, not only is Isma magical in nature but she's definitely some sort of Astral entity that's related to the sea.

Cthulhu Berserk version will probably be the thing that is turning humans into those seaweed looking guys. Loved the atmosphere in the inn. Still having a massive Lovecraftian vibe from this village where something is obviously wrong but the initial impression is weird but still somehow passes as seemingly normal.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: IgnusDei on February 26, 2010, 06:15:54 AM
Awww...Isidro's got himself a sweetheart! This being Berserk, though, it's only gonna end in heartbreak.

Gory, bloody, screaming heartbreak.

Anyhoo, i suspect Isma to be another magic user, specializing in water magic. She's got some knowledge of medicine (which wouldn't be of much use to her if she were a spirit) and she's got a charm on her door with four cardinal points. IIRC, that's common symbolism in all forms of magic.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Aazealh on February 26, 2010, 09:15:39 AM
Anyhoo, i suspect Isma to be another magic user, specializing in water magic. She's got some knowledge of medicine (which wouldn't be of much use to her if she were a spirit) and she's got a charm on her door with four cardinal points. IIRC, that's common symbolism in all forms of magic.

I would agree with you if it weren't for the last panel in this episode. What Schierke sees when she looks at her... Not just the result of being a magic user as far as I can tell. I think there's more to her than that.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: IgnusDei on February 26, 2010, 11:41:55 AM
Well, Flora herself turned into a fire elemental. Isma could've been powerful enough to turn herself into some kind of sea sprite or water elemental. Of course, that leaves the matter of her age, but i couldn't address that without some serious fanwanking.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Skeleton on February 26, 2010, 12:25:39 PM
What intrigues me the most about Isma is she seems to be specifically fish/aquatic life-"themed" instead of being associated with the element of water in general like, for example, the water spirit that Schierke summons in Enoch Village.  The fact that it's specifically "fish" that are swirling around her instead of, lets say, water or undines is what gets me. What does that mean?  I have no idea.  I might just be thinking about it a little too hard.  Of course, I'd probaby have said the same thing about the frog-horse Kelpie, but even the Kelpie was associated with water almost immediately upon its introduction.

Maybe Isma is simply under the control of the sea god, who has already been associated with aquatic life via the sea cucumbers, to lure unsuspecting "guests" into the town or island.  Maybe what Schierke sees is this controlling power over her.  Or maybe Isma is a construct created by the sea god to lure people in.  To take it one step further into insanity, that could support my theory (read: wish) that the sea god turns out to be based on the monkfish, specifically the anglerfish.  Just like how the anglerfish has that growth to lure prey into its mouth, so too does the monkfish-like sea god lure people to it.   :ganishka:  I'm not serious, of course.  But the possibilities are limitless.  Did I mention how excited I am to see how this unfolds?  :ganishka:
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: geo jee on February 26, 2010, 04:32:05 PM
I would just love to find out what happens next with Guts.. :guts:
I mean he's starting to act like a superhuman bodyguard..or something going into danger alone and not letting Roderick comes along..such a hero.
He's (I bet) going to start a massacre and I love him when he goes Berserk  :ubik:, but what wonders me that he no longer senses the black dog no more even since that nightmare, which starting to make me question when will it come out again. :chomp:
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Aazealh on February 26, 2010, 05:14:33 PM
Well, Flora herself turned into a fire elemental. Isma could've been powerful enough to turn herself into some kind of sea sprite or water elemental.

All we know is that Flora appeared as a spirit after her death and raised a wall of flames to protect Schierke and her friends. In the present case Isma is clearly something special on the astral level despite looking like a normal human to the untrained eye. I'm not sure the two are really comparable.

What intrigues me the most about Isma is she seems to be specifically fish/aquatic life-"themed" instead of being associated with the element of water in general like, for example, the water spirit that Schierke summons in Enoch Village.  The fact that it's specifically "fish" that are swirling around her instead of, lets say, water or undines is what gets me. What does that mean?  I have no idea.  I might just be thinking about it a little too hard.

Nope, I'd say you're thinking about it just hard enough. We talked about it a bit earlier and

even the Kelpie was associated with water almost immediately upon its introduction.

In fact it was first introduced while rising out of a river. :iva:

Maybe Isma is simply under the control of the sea god, who has already been associated with aquatic life via the sea cucumbers, to lure unsuspecting "guests" into the town or island. Maybe what Schierke sees is this controlling power over her.  Or maybe Isma is a construct created by the sea god to lure people in.

I highly doubt that considering how she's been behaving so far. On the contrary, she protected Isidro from the Sea God and seriously warned him about it.

To take it one step further into insanity, that could support my theory (read: wish) that the sea god turns out to be based on the monkfish, specifically the anglerfish.

That would be a cool design to base a monster on, but I hope the Sea God turns out to be something really insane. :guts:

I would just love to find out what happens next with Guts.. :guts:
I mean he's starting to act like a superhuman bodyguard..or something going into danger alone and not letting Roderick comes along..such a hero.

Well it's not like Roderick would be a big help in any case...

what wonders me that he no longer senses the black dog no more even since that nightmare, which starting to make me question when will it come out again. :chomp:

You remember what the Beast of Darkness told him at that time, right? It explains why it doesn't show itself anymore. Not that there have been many opportunities for it to manifest itself since then anyway.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: geo jee on February 26, 2010, 07:22:27 PM
Well it's not like Roderick would be a big help in any case...

I know, but to see Guts starting to care that much and to protect, it's like GOLDEN AGE all over again.

You remember what the Beast of Darkness told him at that time, right? It explains why it doesn't show itself anymore. Not that there have been many opportunities for it to manifest itself since then anyway.

I know Beast of Darkness told him that he/it will wait for an opportunity of a lifetime when all things crashes down and everyloved ones would die, but it used to come out whenever Guts fought, and the fight with the sea monster was an opportunity to me at least, that's all. 

P.S.love that new Avatar of yours, Aaz. It's so cute.
and I don't understand a single word of Kanji/Japanese so..what is the meaning below the Avatar.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Walter on February 26, 2010, 07:34:05 PM
I know, but to see Guts starting to care that much and to protect, it's like GOLDEN AGE all over again.
I think you're reading that strong sentiment into him though. Seems to me that Guts was very curious and dubious of these creepy guys in the Inn and just probably wanted to check it out. Who better to, really? It's not like he's directly defending Roderick from an attack or anything (and not that he wouldn't).

He may also have been sick of Magnifico's whining and rambling, and wanted a chance to get away :magni:
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: geo jee on February 26, 2010, 07:51:20 PM
I think you're reading that strong sentiment into him though. Seems to me that Guts was very curious and dubious of these creepy guys in the Inn and just probably wanted to check it out. Who better to, really? It's not like he's directly defending Roderick from an attack or anything (and not that he wouldn't).

He may also have been sick of Magnifico whining and rambling, and wanted a chance to get away :magni:

That was also my first thought, but I remembered how he used to be with casca and judo, and to see him doing that with roderick, it's like he finally accepted them into his pack of comrades, sort of speak.

As for Magnifico I love to see him fighting one of those villagers, I mean that would be hilarious. :serpico:

and I love to see what exactly is he going to find there, may be the source of Evil that is covering that island.
but I know that we are going to see an Epic fight next, so sad for this break. :judo:
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Aazealh on February 26, 2010, 08:08:02 PM
I know, but to see Guts starting to care that much and to protect, it's like GOLDEN AGE all over again.

He's not really caring so much right now. Sounds to me like you're looking for the "Episode 221" thread.

I know Beast of Darkness told him that he/it will wait for an opportunity of a lifetime when all things crashes down and everyloved ones would die, but it used to come out whenever Guts fought, and the fight with the sea monster was an opportunity to me at least, that's all.

That's not exactly what it says, and you've missed the point if you don't understand why that talk implied that the Beast would not be a problem for a while. As for the fight against the sea cucumber, considering how quickly and easily Guts dealt with it there was hardly any opportunity for the armor to create problems.

to see him doing that with roderick, it's like he finally accepted them into his pack of comrades, sort of speak.

Guts was rather friendly with Roderick right from the start, if that's who you mean by "them".

I love to see what exactly is he going to find there, may be the source of Evil that is covering that island.

The "source of evil" is the Sea God.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: geo jee on February 26, 2010, 08:21:58 PM
He's not really caring so much right now. Sounds to me like you're looking for the "Episode 221" thread.
That's not exactly what it says, and you've missed the point if you don't understand why that talk implied that the Beast would not be a problem for a while. As for the fight against the sea cucumber, considering how quickly and easily Guts dealt with it there was hardly any opportunity for the armor to create problems.
Guts was rather friendly with Roderick right from the start, if that's who you mean by "them".
The "source of evil" is the Sea God.

I mean, it's hard for Guts to be friendly with others, I always saw him a bit of a loner from the start, so whenever I see him act like that I'm touched.

As for the point of the Beast, enlight me if you know something else, please.

I know Guts was friendly with Roderick from the start, which is really strange to me as Guts has trouble accepting new people (I know he accepted him because he has a ship) yet he was nice with him which is unusual if you see how he treated Farnese, Serpico and Schierke, not to mention the monkey.

And the Sea God, don't you think it's that Isma girl, I mean it's more than an apostle or even a witch, yet I believe she's a good person.
and if she's a good person and the sea goddess, that would make the Evil Source another thing entirely.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Bekul on February 26, 2010, 08:28:24 PM
And the Sea God, don't you think it's that Isma girl, I mean it's more than an apostle or even a witch, yet I believe she's a good person.

More than an apostle or witch? What makes you think that? That a strange and sinister Od is covering the island? While Schierke sees her as something clearly more than she appears to be, that's not yet a solid confirmation that the strange Od is from her specifically.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Dar Klink on February 26, 2010, 08:36:22 PM

As for the point of the Beast, enlight me if you know something else, please.

The Beast talked to Guts and told him he was going to lay dormant basically
Quote from: Beast of Darkness

The Beast of Darkness: For now it's OK, I'll follow you
The Beast of Darkness: I'll gather my breath at the bottom of my deep darkness
The Beast of Darkness: I'll save my power as much as I'm tied and suppressed

Quote
I know Guts was friendly with Roderick from the start, which is really strange to me as Guts has trouble accepting new people (I know he accepted him because he has a ship) yet he was nice with him which is unusual if you see how he treated Farnese, Serpico and Schierke, not to mention the monkey.

Farnese, Serpico, Schierke, and Isidro were a part of Guts' developing the ability to trust people and be friendly again.

Quote
And the Sea God, don't you think it's that Isma girl, I mean it's more than an apostle or even a witch, yet I believe she's a good person.

She isn't... she warns Isidro about the Sea God and stops him from entering the cave, she also takes care of Isidro's small wound, and seems to be excited talking to him, everything points away from her being the Sea God(dess). Signs point to her being either a witch or another spiritual creature.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Aazealh on February 26, 2010, 08:38:47 PM
I mean, it's hard for Guts to be friendly with others, I always saw him a bit of a loner from the start, so whenever I see him act like that I'm touched.

Ok, but like I told you, this isn't exactly novel behavior on his part. Nor is it the best example, really.

As for the point of the Beast, enlight me if you know something else, please.

How about you just read the episode carefully? It's episode 290.

I know Guts was friendly with Roderick from the start, which is really strange to me as Guts has trouble accepting new people (I know he accepted him because he has a ship) yet he was nice with him which is unusual if you see how he treated Farnese, Serpico and Schierke, not to mention the monkey.

It just goes to show you didn't pay enough attention to the various changes that occurred in Guts since he met his companions. There's 10 volumes of character development that lead to this.

And the Sea God, don't you think it's that Isma girl

Nope.

I mean it's more than an apostle or even a witch

I would say that the Sea God is definitely not an apostle or a witch.

I believe she's a good person.

Me too. There's no contradiction with the rest.

if she's a good person and the sea goddess

She's the one who told Isidro about the Sea God in the first place. They're two different entities no matter what scenario you envision.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Xem on February 26, 2010, 09:28:16 PM
she protected Isidro from the Sea God and seriously warned him about it.

Perhaps she didn't want Isidro to enter the cave for other reasons, reasons that haven't been revealed yet. Since Guts royally fucked up the last sea monster, perhaps the smaller tentacles were indication that a new one was growing inside... maybe she was protecting it instead of the other way around.

That aside, my first initial reaction to her running around flaunting her shtuff in front of Isidro was that she could be a siren of sorts, as has been hypothesized earlier. Upon further thinking though, it's most probable that she's just been isolated on this island for a while, and doesn't see that type of behavior the way we do.

I guess one of the big questions to be asking is if she's a human, how come she hasn't been transformed like the rest of the villagers? I'm sure Schierke has lots of questions and maybe some answers, I can't wait for the next episode.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Walter on February 26, 2010, 09:47:30 PM
and she's got a charm on her door with four cardinal points. IIRC, that's common symbolism in all forms of magic.
The symbols and arrangement of the door's artifact actually reminds me of what Schierke did in Vol 24 to ward off the trolls:

(http://skullknight.net/images/schierke-ward.jpg)

Obviously, they aren't exactly alike, but the methods are similar. As IgnusDei said, items are arranged at cardinal points. And I wonder if it isn't a ward against the Sea God, or its influence -- something to keep at bay what turned the villagers into its minions. Of course, there are other possibilities with Isma's character than simply someone who knows how to place wards. But this is one that struck me, looking at that doorway.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Aazealh on February 26, 2010, 10:26:30 PM
Perhaps she didn't want Isidro to enter the cave for other reasons, reasons that haven't been revealed yet. Since Guts royally fucked up the last sea monster, perhaps the smaller tentacles were indication that a new one was growing inside... maybe she was protecting it instead of the other way around.

So she brought Isidro home, tended to his injury, changed clothes in front of him (with her back turned), made him food and enthusiastically asked him about the world/his adventures to protect a monster that could have simply not showed up if it felt threatened? And that would make her the incredibly powerful being that transformed every villager on the island (and made sea cucumbers into monsters too)? Honestly it's so far-fetched and unlikely that it feels like you made it so on purpose.

Upon further thinking though, it's most probable that she's just been isolated on this island for a while, and doesn't see that type of behavior the way we do.

Yeah, it passes as carefree and naive behavior and not as a definite will to seduce backed up by otherworldly powers.

I guess one of the big questions to be asking is if she's a human, how come she hasn't been transformed like the rest of the villagers?

Well we can already tell for sure that she's not a normal human, so that's not much of a mystery.

I wonder if it isn't a ward against the Sea God, or its influence -- something to keep at bay what turned the villagers into its minions. Of course, there are other possibilities with Isma's character than simply someone who knows how to place wards. But this is one that struck me, looking at that doorway.

The same thing occurred to me when I saw it, and it made me wonder why Schierke didn't pick up on it when she came to the house. The central spiral is also similar to those that maintained Flora's barrier in the woods.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Xem on February 26, 2010, 11:16:38 PM
So she brought Isidro home, tended to his injury, changed clothes in front of him (with her back turned), made him food and enthusiastically asked him about the world/his adventures to protect a monster that could have simply not showed up if it felt threatened?

Just because she might want to protect the Sea God, doesn't mean she doesn't want to protect Isidro as well. Like you said, she appears to be a carefree and naive and it's possible she's been isolated by herself for quite some time. She's still probably just a young girl interested in the world, not unlike Isidro himself.

If she is somehow linked to the Sea God that doesn't mean that she herself is evil in nature. The two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.

Quote
And that would make her the incredibly powerful being that transformed every villager on the island (and made sea cucumbers into monsters too)?

How so?
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Aazealh on February 26, 2010, 11:34:40 PM
Just because she might want to protect the Sea God, doesn't mean she doesn't want to protect Isidro as well.

And why would the Sea God need protection from Isidro exactly? Or do you think it's a simple transformed sea cucumber?

She's still probably just a young girl interested in the world

Not "just" a young girl, no. The last panel made that quite obvious.

If she is somehow linked to the Sea God that doesn't mean that she herself is evil in nature. The two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.

The Sea God is said by her to be evil. It was pretty much confirmed by Schierke and by what we saw to be evil. The girl has been shown to be critical and apprehensive of said Sea God, and to be helpful and caring to Isidro. So yeah, it's actually contradictory.

How so?

Why would she want to protect a random monster otherwise? Damn man, there's no point in even discussing this, it just doesn't make sense.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Xem on February 27, 2010, 05:03:55 AM
Anyway, I was doing some more thinking about Isma and came up with.. brace yourself, some of you may not be able to handle it... another far-fetched idea!

I thought about the correlation between the pirates, the monster, and this magical young and attractive Isma girly and my mind landed on Calypso. Not saying she's a take on Calypso per-se, though she was isolated on an island just as Isma is, but there are some similarities to her and Nereid or sea nymphs.

DISCUSS
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Walter on February 27, 2010, 05:30:03 AM
Anyway, I was doing some more thinking about Isma and came up with.. brace yourself, some of you may not be able to handle it... another far-fetched idea!

I thought about the correlation between the pirates, the monster, and this magical young and attractive Isma girly and my mind landed on Calypso. Not saying she's a take on Calypso per-se, though she was isolated on an island just as Isma is, but there are some similarities to her and Nereid or sea nymphs.

DISCUSS
I don't think her being a sea nymph is out of the question, but I really don't see why Calypso particularly is brought up. Isma isn't alone on the island, and even Roderick's crew referred to it as a tiny, out of the way port where they knew they could get supplies.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Xem on February 27, 2010, 06:10:32 AM
I don't think her being a sea nymph is out of the question, but I really don't see why Calypso particularly is brought up. Isma isn't alone on the island, and even Roderick's crew referred to it as a tiny, out of the way port where they knew they could get supplies.

Honestly, probably because the last time I was acquainted with a mythological sea creature before this was in the PotC movies, which are obviously waaaaay off from the actual classical mythological depictions of Calypso. It got me thinking a little deeper though! It is interesting that, during the Illiad anyway, Calypso was isolated on an island just as Isma is.... or at least she seems like she has been. Those villagers almost don't seem to count as company imho. Not that I'm claiming that Miura drew inspiration from Calypso specifically.

Sea nymphs though, have been traditionally known to help seamen on their travels... and obviously retain magical abilities. They also have been known to be directly linked to Sea God's... sometimes even THE Sea God. Not that I'm claiming the Sea God Miura is referring to is Poseiden, but this could've been a big inspiration for him...

We'll see!
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Aazealh on February 27, 2010, 09:03:03 AM
It is interesting that, during the Illiad anyway, Calypso was isolated on an island just as Isma is.... or at least she seems like she has been. Those villagers almost don't seem to count as company imho. Not that I'm claiming that Miura drew inspiration from Calypso specifically.

Why do the villagers not count other than because you don't want them to? It's not like they've been transformed for ages from what we understand (probably only since the worlds merged). Isma's personality and attitude can easily be explained by the fact she's a young person who's never seen the world at large, and whether or not she's had (boring) company matters little in that regard. It's not too different from what motivated Isidro himself to leave his home and family, or what pushed Morgan to venture into the forest. Even Puck justified leaving Elfhelm for that reason.

Besides, given her looks on the last page of this episode, she might not have been on that island for very long (having spent most of her life underwater and/or in the astral world).

They also have been known to be directly linked to Sea God's... sometimes even THE Sea God. Not that I'm claiming the Sea God Miura is referring to is Poseiden, but this could've been a big inspiration for him...

This Sea God is an ancient being that sinks ships and eat humans. Or turns them into its minions. Nothing we've been told about it so far matches the description of Poseidon at all aside from the words "sea" and "god". I mean do you really think it's going to be anthropomorphic after seeing the idol the villagers worship(ped)? And on a side note, the nereids weren't just sometimes related to Poseidon in Greek mythology.

Anyway, I take it your point here is that she could be the sea god's daughter or something equivalent, forced to serve it but good at heart? Seems quite unlikely to me at this point.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: everymonday on February 27, 2010, 03:15:27 PM
Wow! That was good episode.

Did you notice the fish species on the wall - they are all deep-sea inhabitants. It is virtually impossible to catch them near island if only sea-zombies can walk on the bottom of sea.  :ubik:

So could they be caught in the cave? There were smaller versions of Sharkrider's pets and other sea stuff too - so this cave as an "abode of sea god" can be a place like Qliphoth, but inactive or abandoned.

It makes a point why Isma protected the door with ammonite seal, Flora's house was protected from commoners and evil creatures too.

Also it was very cute how Schierke squirted water from her nostril...  :schierke:

P.S.: I think the forum needs Isma's emoticon.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Shadax on February 27, 2010, 04:54:04 PM
I really think Isma is an entity of her own apart from the "sea god". We all saw how creatures from legends and stories have been coming into the world and a little island that thrives on sea trade and fishing is bound to have many stories about mermaid creatures and such and a strong belief in them. I think Isma originated from one such sources and she is really enjoying her newfound freedom in the new world. Wether she is good, evil or neutral and she does not seem to be directly asociated with the sea god business.

As for Guts. He is a very practical and aware warrior. Most of the others seem to be quite relaxt and unaware  atm but Guts is on high alert even if he seems relaxt and knows something is up in the inn. If the innkeeper is setting up a trap, the best counter for Guts would be to go in headfirst taking initiative instead of sitting in the inn waiting for something to happen. And also this way he wont have to worry about anyone getting in his way. More of a practical and tactical decision then an emotional one if you ask me.


This part really has a Shadow over Innsmouth feel to it.

It would be cute if Isidro and Schierke develop a sort of romance or friendship.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Aazealh on February 27, 2010, 05:58:57 PM
Did you notice the fish species on the wall - they are all deep-sea inhabitants. It is virtually impossible to catch them near island if only sea-zombies can walk on the bottom of sea.  :ubik:

Really? I'd recognized some, but every single one of them? If so that's pretty interesting indeed.

So could they be caught in the cave? There were smaller versions of Sharkrider's pets and other sea stuff too

We saw the tentacles of one transmuted sea cucumber, that's all. Also, "Captain Shark Rider" is the name of the pirate ship.

so this cave as an "abode of sea god" can be a place like Qliphoth, but inactive or abandoned.

Yeah, the cave might lead to a territory deep within the astral world (the actual lair of the Sea God?), I speculated about that earlier. But it doesn't have to be inactive or abandoned.

It makes a point why Isma protected the door with ammonite seal, Flora's house was protected from commoners and evil creatures too.

That has also already been commented on.

Also it was very cute how Schierke squirted water from her nostril...

Uh, how to say... That was snot.

If the innkeeper is setting up a trap, the best counter for Guts would be to go in headfirst taking initiative instead of sitting in the inn waiting for something to happen. And also this way he wont have to worry about anyone getting in his way. More of a practical and tactical decision then an emotional one if you ask me.

Yeah, that's what we were trying to explain to geo jee earlier.

It would be cute if Isidro and Schierke develop a sort of romance or friendship.

It's bound to happen! :miura:

(http://aazealh.net/Divers/Highfive.jpg)  (http://aazealh.net/Divers/Love_Blooms.jpg)
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Okin on February 27, 2010, 10:50:51 PM
Man this is one of those episodes that reminds me that Berserk has everything: violence, monsters, horror, comedy, budding-romance, and boob jokes.  :troll:

My favorite scene is easily the one where Guts is watching the two villagers over his shoulder without so much as blinking. The actual event is completely normal but the scene depicted is so perfectly bizarre! I'm kind of wondering why Serpico hasn't noticed anything though. I understand that Magnifico and even Roderick might not be paying attention. I guess there group must be filling most of inn, so it's easy to miss two people in the corner of the room.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Triple Life on February 28, 2010, 06:42:38 AM
She's the one who told Isidro about the Sea God in the first place. They're two different entities no matter what scenario you envision.

I'm of the opinion that Isma and the Sea God are separate entities, but, for the sake of conversation, let's say they're not. There are a ton of reasons to think they have no direct relation other than proximity, but what if it's some kind of dualistic being? Isma is the good, life-giving, nurturing, adventurous, beautiful aspect of the Sea God. And then there is the evil sea, the sea that destroys ships, drowns people and whose waves crush villages. Of course, if true, Isma's half is pretty weak considering the villagers seem to all be zombies of some variety.

There's probably a bunch of holes in that theory too, but I guess I couldn't help but take those words as a challenge to envision a scenario.  :troll:
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Aazealh on February 28, 2010, 09:32:04 AM
I'm of the opinion that Isma and the Sea God are separate entities, but, for the sake of conversation, let's say they're not. There are a ton of reasons to think they have no direct relation other than proximity, but what if it's some kind of dualistic being?

But then that wouldn't fit what she or Schierke said about it. So at the very least it means Isma lied, and she and the Sea God she told Isidro about are different entities because it was just a bogeyman she made up to hide her identity. :slan:
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Frankontherocks on February 28, 2010, 02:15:49 PM
"What its like" she says, now I took this two ways. Firstly it could very well be that she inhabits the island and is genuinely wondering what the outside world is like. Secondly she could be talking about the land, that is to say what "outside the ocean" is like. She could be a sea entity( not sea anemone though her hairstyle is a bit indicative of them and seaweed as well) and just comes up to the land to keep travelers or what have you out of the cave. When we first see Isma she's naked, and once Guts and co come up to the island shes magically dressed. Now its possible she just saw other people and got dressed instead of hanging out naked. Then that got me thinking that the "townsfolk" had to be something else, confirmed by this episode as well... wiggly string people.... I believe that shes from the ocean her mannerisms and design hint at that, and certainly Schierke's crazy astral vision can vouch for some kind of oceanic tie in.

everymonday beat me to it, most if not all of those fish are deep sea creatures  :ubik:

sidebar: Really nice site you got here folks, glad to be a part of it  :badbone:

Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Triple Life on February 28, 2010, 08:44:36 PM
But then that wouldn't fit what she or Schierke said about it. So at the very least it means Isma lied, and she and the Sea God she told Isidro about are different entities because it was just a bogeyman she made up to hide her identity. :slan:

Like I said, probably a bunch of holes. :troll:
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Sarcomere on February 28, 2010, 11:03:15 PM
Is it just me, or does the arrangement of ..fish elementals around Isma on the last page look a lot like wings?  Particularly her left side.  Maybe Im just seeing things  :farnese:
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Aazealh on March 01, 2010, 01:02:47 AM
Firstly it could very well be that she inhabits the island and is genuinely wondering what the outside world is like. Secondly she could be talking about the land, that is to say what "outside the ocean" is like.

Yeah that's pretty much a given.

She could be a sea entity( not sea anemone though her hairstyle is a bit indicative of them and seaweed as well) and just comes up to the land to keep travelers or what have you out of the cave.

Schierke's vision makes it quite clear that she's astrally related to the sea. Now for details we're going to have to wait. Personally I don't think she's just around to warn people not to enter the cave though. Again, if what she told Isidro is true, the islanders didn't go there in the first place (and they've been transformed into monsters anyway, AND the creature known as the sea god can leave the cave as evidenced by the ghost ship).

When we first see Isma she's naked, and once Guts and co come up to the island shes magically dressed. Now its possible she just saw other people and got dressed instead of hanging out naked.

The first shot of her is as she sees the ship in the horizon. So obviously she got dressed in the large time gap between her introduction and her meeting with Isidro. Nothing special.

Really nice site you got here folks, glad to be a part of it  :badbone:

Welcome aboard! :SK:

Is it just me, or does the arrangement of ..fish elementals around Isma on the last page look a lot like wings?  Particularly her left side.  Maybe Im just seeing things  :farnese:

Unfortunately I think you are indeed seeing things. The fishes form a spiral behind her, but she doesn't have wings. I think it's pretty clear in the picture too.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Sarcomere on March 01, 2010, 02:58:48 AM
Unfortunately I think you are indeed seeing things. The fishes form a spiral behind her, but she doesn't have wings. I think it's pretty clear in the picture too.

Ah, I didnt mean she has wings, just that it looks like she does.  I understand that is a spiral of fish but the way which Miura drew it just makes me think of wings. 

But then.. I guess that means I am seeing things
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Oburi on March 01, 2010, 05:10:26 PM

It would be cute if Isidro and Schierke develop a sort of romance or friendship.

I think this episode shows it a lot more than we've seen in the past. When Schierke finds the dagger and does the mind telepathy thing she sees that Isidro's staring at boobies, which distracts her and allows those tentacle things to attack her. When she shows up at Isma's place, even Isidro comments on how she seems "more scary" than usual. That comment, along with Schierke's over the top reaction definitely seem to be the results of a romance in the making.

Also there is so much fish in this episode. Even Isidro is eating fish at Isma's and it looks like the signpost for the inn is a jug and a cup on a fish ( which is ironic if it was always there even before the villagers changed into fish eating monsters) . Just a few more to go along with all the other fish references.  :guts:

(http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/3130/berserkep312.jpg)
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Bekul on March 01, 2010, 05:14:14 PM
I think this episode shows it a lot more than we've seen in the past

Heh, all the more-so given how Schierke and Isidro, uhm, first 'met' each other. Dislike at first grope!  :isidro: :schierke:
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Walter on March 01, 2010, 05:35:37 PM
Also there is so much fish in this episode. Even Isidro is eating fish at Isma's and it looks like the signpost for the inn is a jug and a cup on a fish
And don't forget Isidro's eyes "swimming".
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Jaccuri on March 01, 2010, 05:51:26 PM
I was wondering about one thing.  On page 2 and 3, it seemed like Isidro insisted on going into the cave despite Isma's warnings then suddenly a wave splashed out of the water and hit him so he fell and hit his head.  If that is really happened couldn't it have been Isma's doing in order to keep him from entering the cave?
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Proj2501 on March 01, 2010, 05:55:03 PM
No doubt Schierke is scarier to Isidro. His thinking with the wrong head almost cost her and he lost the dagger she gave him to boot. While Isma has caught his eye, no way anything is going to come of them IMO.

Miura has really planted the seeds of those two eventually getting together. Their awkward first encounter with one another, Isidro fighting to protect her on the docks (Isi's first time fighting against normal people btw), along with their constant banter. One day he's going to stop being 'The Monkey' and win her over in a serious way. Just watch.

It would be nice to see her act somewhat jealous that Isidro's drooling over Isma but the fact she's just sensed a new Od is going to take center stage next episode.

Here's some quick speculation of Isma's future. She'll turn out to be friendly, maybe get close to the group. Eventually Guts and Co. will have to deal with whatever creature/God is in the cave and she'll wind up dying protecting the band. We already have one full blown witch in Guts' Co. and another in training. Sadly for that reason alone is why I don't think Isma's chances of survival are high. Silly maybe...
Or hell, maybe she'll live and wind up staying on the island. Who knows. I just don't see her joining the band.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Walter on March 01, 2010, 06:01:29 PM
I was wondering about one thing.  On page 2 and 3, it seemed like Isidro insisted on going into the cave despite Isma's warnings then suddenly a wave splashed out of the water and hit him so he fell and hit his head.  If that is really happened couldn't it have been Isma's doing in order to keep him from entering the cave?
You're not alone in that thought:

Anyway, I was thinking back about the wave that sends Isidro down on page 2 yesterday, and I'm wondering if it's not something Isma did herself to prevent him from going further into the cave.

It would be nice to see her act somewhat jealous that Isidro's drooling over Isma but the fact she's just sensed a new Od is going to take center stage next episode.
Schierke seemed a little hurt, to me. She was genuinely worried about him after finding his dagger in the cave, and sought him out... only to find he was boob-gazing. Poor Schierke...

Proj, in response to your speculation about Isma, against all odds I hope she becomes a regular cast member. If she is indeed of the astral world, that could open so many doors for exposition in the future. She'd be a truly unique character.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Proj2501 on March 01, 2010, 06:03:27 PM
Schierke seemed a little hurt, to me, that she was genuinely worried about him after finding his dagger in the cave, and sought him out... only to find he was boob-gazing. Poor Schierke...

Yeah, true. Well, this might be the catalyst for her to realize she likes The Monkey, much to Ivarella's dismay.
 
:schierke:, "Could it be? I have feelings for...for..."
:iva:, "HIM?!"


:isidro:

I would die laughing if and when they ever kiss that as they are doing so, cartoony Puck goes to grab Ivarella's hand and she subsequently whack's him in the face.  :ganishka:

Proj, in response to your speculation about Isma, against all odds I hope she becomes a regular cast member. If she is indeed of the astral world, that could open so many doors for exposition in the future. She'd be a truly unique character.

While you're totally right in regards to more astral doors being open, my concern is that we might lose focus on some of the other characters. Like Azan was reintroduced and it's been sometime and I feel like he's just kinda there as backdrop. He really hasn't said much. My fears are really unfounded as Miura always delivers anyways. Listen not to me!
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Walter on March 01, 2010, 06:05:10 PM
:schierke:, "Could it be? I have feelings for...for..."
:iva:, "HIM?!"

:isidro:
I think Schierke would deny that up until the moment they kissed  :casca:
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Oburi on March 01, 2010, 06:23:49 PM
I think Schierke would deny that up until the moment they kissed  :casca:

Stop this, your getting ahead of yourselves (and I can barely contain my excitement of that visual image)!

Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Aphasia on March 01, 2010, 06:48:36 PM
Haha.  I'm really interested to see the dynamic between these three characters and how they react to each other.  I can see some great dialogue between them.  I'm counting myself in the party that hopes Isma sticks around for a while...I'm enjoying her character a lot so far, and think she would add a lot to the cast.  Love Triangle? : O
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Aazealh on March 01, 2010, 06:53:35 PM
I think this episode shows it a lot more than we've seen in the past.

Honestly? Not particularly in my opinion. It's more of a continuation of their history together, and I don't expect anything spectacular to happen soon. Miura's developing this really slowly and subtly. The payoff will likely be years from now.

When she shows up at Isma's place, even Isidro comments on how she seems "more scary" than usual.

Mostly due to the fact she's covered in algae and sea life. It's a humorous situation.

That comment, along with Schierke's over the top reaction definitely seem to be the results of a romance in the making.
Miura has really planted the seeds of those two eventually getting together. Their awkward first encounter with one another, Isidro fighting to protect her on the docks (Isi's first time fighting against normal people btw), along with their constant banter. One day he's going to stop being 'The Monkey' and win her over in a serious way. Just watch.

:ganishka: You guys are so late to the show.

Also there is so much fish in this episode. Even Isidro is eating fish at Isma's and it looks like the signpost for the inn is a jug and a cup on a fish ( which is ironic if it was always there even before the villagers changed into fish eating monsters) . Just a few more to go along with all the other fish references.

It's a minuscule island on which fishing is the only activity. What else do you expect? Of course there are fish references everywhere. There's nothing even remotely ironic about it.

Here's some quick speculation of Isma's future. She'll turn out to be friendly, maybe get close to the group. Eventually Guts and Co. will have to deal with whatever creature/God is in the cave and she'll wind up dying protecting the band.

Reminds me of something I speculated about... Last week. :badbone:

Or hell, maybe she'll live and wind up staying on the island.

Or going back to the sea.

Like Azan was reintroduced and it's been sometime and I feel like he's just kinda there as backdrop. He really hasn't said much.

Well so far he hasn't even come forward as being himself and is trying to stay incognito, so I think it's safe to say his "great return" hasn't actually occurred yet.

I would die laughing if and when they ever kiss that as they are doing so, cartoony Puck goes to grab Ivarella's hand and she subsequently whack's him in the face.

How about this instead? :void:

(http://aazealh.net/Divers/Puck-Iva.jpg)
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Bekul on March 01, 2010, 07:28:53 PM
Schierke seemed a little hurt, to me. She was genuinely worried about him after finding his dagger in the cave, and sought him out... only to find he was boob-gazing. Poor Schierke...

Haha, well, given how soaked Schierke is, the fact that Isma has a nice warm fire handy leads me to speculate at a possible situation along the lines of Schierke having to get out of her clothes to dry them and warm herself, leading to...

 :schierke: thinking to herself. "What does she have that I don't?'

 :schnoz:

 :schierke: "Ooooooh."  :farnese:
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: flagawax on March 23, 2010, 09:06:04 AM
Another great episode.

Isidro is so funny in this episode. :isidro: He's growing up, isn't he?
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Armando on March 23, 2010, 10:47:02 AM
I'm sorry to say and contradict flagawax, but in my vision this episode was a lame. I'm really questioning, what Berserk is going to become? A fairytale? And of course, Miura is stalling the history in my vision,  what can happen in that island that can't in Elfhelm? And of course, what is the purpose in stopping in this island?? So i agree with Aazealh:

Honestly? Not particularly in my opinion. It's more of a continuation of their history together, and I don't expect anything spectacular to happen soon. Miura's developing this really slowly and subtly. The payoff will likely be years from now.


Let's sit and wait.  :daiba:
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Aazealh on March 23, 2010, 11:36:40 AM
I'm sorry to say and contradict flagawax, but in my vision this episode was a lame. I'm really questioning, what Berserk is going to become? A fairytale? And of course, Miura is stalling the history in my vision,  what can happen in that island that can't in Elfhelm? And of course, what is the purpose in stopping in this island??

I'm sorry to disagree with you myself in turn but just because you don't understand what's happening doesn't mean it's lame. You want to know what's happening now that couldn't happen on Elfhelm? An ancient evil god and possessed villagers on a desolated rock, that's what. :schierke:

And though we can't tell exactly what will result from it I can already assure you that it serves a purpose. You know what your comment reminds me of? People complaining that Guts and the others going in the Qliphoth to rescue Casca and Farnese was "filler" and "a waste of time". Look how that turned out.

Same goes for your comment about what Berserk is becoming. People have been saying that for nearly 10 years now, and they were already complaining before. So with that in mind you might want to ask yourself what Berserk is and has always been, especially since folk tales were clearly among its inspirations right from the start.

So i agree with Aazealh:

Let's sit and wait.  :daiba:

I don't think you're really agreeing with me here, quite the contrary in fact. Even if we assume that nothing's going to happen right now between Schierke and Isidro, this little aside builds their relationship together, and that's why it's awesome. They have an evolving relationship that follows their characters as they develop through the story. That means whatever happens between them in volume 42 will feel completely natural, despite being very different from how they were in volume 24. What more could you ask for?

I mean a big part of why Berserk is so great is because Miura actually lays down the bases for events before said events happen instead of retrofitting them in like a lot of other authors do. I don't think that's very hard to realize, is it?
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Rhombaad on March 23, 2010, 01:39:46 PM
What's amusing to me is that once Berserk is complete all these complainers will talk about how awesome this section of the story was. :schierke:
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Aazealh on March 23, 2010, 01:46:02 PM
What's amusing to me is that once Berserk is complete all these complainers will talk about how awesome this section of the story was. :schierke:

Oh you probably won't need to wait that long. By volume 40 some people will already be complaining about where they think the story is headed compared to the awesomeness that was the Sea God in volume 35.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Rhombaad on March 23, 2010, 01:49:57 PM
Oh you probably won't need to wait that long. By volume 40 some people will already be complaining about where they think the story is headed compared to the awesomeness that was the Sea God in volume 35.

Haha, you're probably right. It's sad that people can't enjoy Berserk as they read it.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Gobolatula on March 23, 2010, 02:09:15 PM
What I find great about Berserk is that each arc of the story is unique. Yes, this is a fantasy manga and it has been from the start. As we read on, we're treated to new aspects of the world of Berserk, and as of volume 34's end, we were essentially given a new world!

It seems to me that the more supernatural or fantastic or magical certain plot elements get, the more people get upset. The least supernatural arc of the story so far was The Golden Age arc. And as classic as that section was, it was a huge 10-volume flashback.

It's the uniqueness of each new introduced conflict or element that makes this story great. When we see a new creature or form of magic that hasn't been introduced yet, I think in a way, it's meant to be off-putting. We think, for instance, "Mermaids? In my Berserk? That can't happen." Or how about, "Magic armor? In my Berserk? That can't happen." These new fantastic elements become integral parts of the world of Berserk before we know it. We're constantly jolted from our comfort zone when reading Berserk, and what we're all used to gets "messed up" from time to time. And I find that thrilling. You'd think in a world where all this crazy shit is constantly happening, a gang of ghost pirates wouldn't jump out at you. This is one of the many things that make Miura the great story teller he is.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: slan69 on March 23, 2010, 09:00:48 PM
You know what your comment reminds me of? People complaining that Guts and the others going in the Qliphoth to rescue Casca and Farnese was "filler" and "a waste of time". Look how that turned out.

That was an amazing part of the story, especially because we see a God Hand member take form there. We also had Skully there too which made it even that much more interesting. I don't understand why these people complain about Berserk's story, not once have I ever complained about it. What's the point in reading it if all your going to do is whine about the fact that Miura is bringing in new elements to the story. I think that's a great thing to do, keeps the reader very thrilled to see what's going to happen next. Well IMO anyways. :slan:
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Shadax on March 25, 2010, 02:53:23 PM
The reason these "asides" seem so painfull and distracting atm is because beserk comes out at a slower pace then we personally want to which sort of skews our sense of pacing for the story. Making it seem like certain parts are dragged out when in reality they aren't.

Also, this whole seagod stuff etc is more to set the stage for the new state of the world and to make the journey to Elfhelm be more then a short hop. Also, I really enjoy these parts. The parts with Griff however bored me to death. Also, like others have said, the story has been down the same path for years. It has become a little more mellow at the moment. But that was also true during the golden age before my mind got horribly scarred by full graphic demon rape. The story swings along all ranges of the spectrum. I will however admit that I personally am not a big fan of magical daggers and summoning of spirits etc because that sort of detracts from the "humanity" of the protagonists in their struggle. Miura does do it with style and subtlety tho and he doesn't pull retcons or other bullcrap deus ex machinas left and right like some other manga series do *cough Claymore.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Walter on March 25, 2010, 03:09:09 PM
The reason these "asides" seem so painfull and distracting atm is because beserk comes out at a slower pace then we personally want to which sort of skews our sense of pacing for the story. Making it seem like certain parts are dragged out when in reality they aren't.
Who said they were painful and distracting? Anyway, it's no secret that people complain about the story regardless of what's happening. Trust me, I've seen every variation of complaint. "Not enough Griffith/Guts." "Too much Griffith/Guts." "When are they getting on/off the boat already?!?" Soon it will be "Are they STILL in Elfhelm?"

Quote
The parts with Griff however bored me to death.
Which was more boring, the epic battle with humans, apostles and chibishka as a towering god like creature smashed the nation's capital, or the showdown between Femto and Skull Knight? That whole portion of the manga (vol 34) was among the most exciting and climactic in the past 10 years.

Quote
But that was also true during the golden age before my mind got horribly scarred by full graphic demon rape.
There was pretty graphic stuff before the Eclipse, you know. If you're so fragile, maybe you should have stopped during the Donovan scene?

Quote
I will however admit that I personally am not a big fan of magical daggers and summoning of spirits etc because that sort of detracts from the "humanity" of the protagonists in their struggle.
I think you've been missing the point, distracted by the magicalness of these items. The introduction of magic has actually heightened the sense of impending doom and mortality for the characters. They have to use these enhanced weapons to stay alive because the stakes have heightened. And it was specifically because of the danger of the Berserk Armor that Guts had to grapple with what was most important to him during volume 27. Time and time again, Guts has to wrestle between his good and base desires as a result of using this magical armor.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Oburi on March 25, 2010, 05:05:04 PM

Which was more boring, the epic battle with humans, apostles and chibishka as a towering god like creature smashed the nation's capital, or the showdown between Femto and Skull Knight? That whole portion of the

Seriously, I never understood how people are bored by the Griffith storylines. I love Guts as much as the next guy but I always found that the events surrounding Griffith are very exciting.  It's not as chaotic and unpredictable as Guts' adventures, but that's the contrast. It's the balance that makes the Berserk saga so amazing. And yea, Griffiths stories couldn't be more epic. I mean that battle that ended with the merging of the worlds was bigger than the third lord of the rings movie!  :troll:

Quote
that sort of detracts from the "humanity" of the protagonists in their struggle.

No way man. As Walter said it actually adds to the story. I mean, Berserk has many themes, and I think one of the big ones is about Guts retaining his humanity. Can he defeat these otherworldly demons without becoming a monster himself? With the addition of the armour the struggle becomes more difficult than ever, but it's always been there, since volume 1. I know what your saying but you need to look at it from a different angle, believe me it fits the story and makes it more amazing than ever before. :guts:
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Triple Life on March 25, 2010, 05:14:31 PM
You're being a bit too hard on Shadax here, Walter. His first point, I think, is the root of most people's frustrations with Berserk. I've gotten used to the release pace by now, but especially if you're someone who read everything in a couple sittings between volumes 1 and 30 or so, then waiting a couple months for a new episode can be kind of brutal. Of course, if you go back and read one of those volumes that seemed horrifically dragged out in your perception, the pacing suddenly isn't a problem anymore. It's not reasonable but it's definitely natural to get impatient. Their problems are more related to the pacing of episode releases than the actual pacing or content of the story.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Walter on March 25, 2010, 05:22:08 PM
I don't think I was especially hard on him. I actually added to the point he was making about people complaining about the series by giving specific examples I've seen over the years. My point is that people will always complain about ignorant shit regardless of the circumstances.

As to your last point, I don't really have any pity for people who turn their impatience at the episode releases into anger at Miura or Berserk. They're not worth my time, and shouldn't even call themselves fans of the series. They're so intent on satisfying their fleeting, personal cravings that they don't realize that time is required for a series to reach its full potential.

How's that for hard? :daiba:
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Jaze1618 on March 25, 2010, 06:23:51 PM
I don't think I was especially hard on him. I actually added to the point he was making about people complaining about the series by giving specific examples I've seen over the years. My point is that people will always complain about ignorant shit regardless of the circumstances.

As to your last point, I don't really have any pity for people who turn their impatience at the episode releases into anger at Miura or Berserk. They're not worth my time, and shouldn't even call themselves fans of the series. They're so intent on satisfying their fleeting, personal cravings that they don't realize that time is required for a series to reach its full potential.

How's that for hard? :daiba:

Well said Walter. More to the point, marathoning a new series in only few sittings is a classic give away of having done so without ever owning or purchasing a single volume of the manga.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Proj2501 on March 25, 2010, 09:23:51 PM
I'm sorry to say and contradict flagawax, but in my vision this episode was a lame. I'm really questioning, what Berserk is going to become? A fairytale? And of course, Miura is stalling the history in my vision,  what can happen in that island that can't in Elfhelm? And of course, what is the purpose in stopping in this island?? So i agree with Aazealh:
Let's sit and wait.  :daiba:
The reason these "asides" seem so painfull and distracting atm is because beserk comes out at a slower pace then we personally want to which sort of skews our sense of pacing for the story. Making it seem like certain parts are dragged out when in reality they aren't.

Also, this whole seagod stuff etc is more to set the stage for the new state of the world and to make the journey to Elfhelm be more then a short hop. Also, I really enjoy these parts. The parts with Griff however bored me to death. Also, like others have said, the story has been down the same path for years. It has become a little more mellow at the moment. But that was also true during the golden age before my mind got horribly scarred by full graphic demon rape. The story swings along all ranges of the spectrum. I will however admit that I personally am not a big fan of magical daggers and summoning of spirits etc because that sort of detracts from the "humanity" of the protagonists in their struggle.

...

(http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q29/magdalena_cyrana/Entourage-GTFO.gif)
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Madkreig on March 26, 2010, 12:01:42 AM
Well said Walter. More to the point, marathoning a new series in only few sittings is a classic give away of having done so without ever owning or purchasing a single volume of the manga.

I must agree as well, it is probably more than likely that he hasn´t. But I would like to add that even if that is the case you should still be able to go back to waiting for the releases, just like with any other manga. It is thanks to the amount of time between the releases that Berserk is the extraordinary manga it is, and of course due to Miura. A weekly manga (or similar) wouldn´t have the time necessary to make that gorgeous art and well thought through storyline, every little detail matters and that is what makes Berserk such a great manga.

This story with the Sea God is probably affecting the continuation of the story in a vital way, or at least so I hope. I wait for what is to come. :rakshas:
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Shadax on March 26, 2010, 09:45:39 AM
Who said they were painful and distracting? Anyway, it's no secret that people complain about the story regardless of what's happening. Trust me, I've seen every variation of complaint. "Not enough Griffith/Guts." "Too much Griffith/Guts." "When are they getting on/off the boat already?!?" Soon it will be "Are they STILL in Elfhelm?"

Ok, since you felt the need to pick apart my post I"ll bite. It was just my assumption on how many people could feel about it. Not my personal view, nor yours perhaps, but there are quite a few people whom I know that feel/felt like this about certain parts. Not something important enough to quote me about. Quite a lot of people do feel like this, I was just giving my say on that from a personal view.

Which was more boring, the epic battle with humans, apostles and chibishka as a towering god like creature smashed the nation's capital, or the showdown between Femto and Skull Knight? That whole portion of the manga (vol 34) was among the most exciting and climactic in the past 10 years.

Opionons. The battle with Ghanishka felt like a farce to me and how big he was, was completely meaningless. We know what Griffith is capable off to an extent and that Ghanishka would be dead the second Griffith actually wanted him dead. So no, for me it felt like "yeah, get the charade on already" Again, opinions, we all get our kicks from different things. I like the parts with Guts a lot more since my biggest interest is how characters evolve and grow and overcome obstacles. In that regard Griffith is a much more stale character up to this point and everyone around him is more of a marionet on a string following a set path and plan. Once there is more development in those characters and more conflict, those parts will become more interesting to me.


There was pretty graphic stuff before the Eclipse, you know. If you're so fragile, maybe you should have stopped during the Donovan scene?

"Oh noes! someone made a slightly sarcastic remark to point out the contrast between the somewhat mellow time in the golden arc to almost abdrupt descent into full on demonic madness and now I feel the need to make a passive agressive personal attack"


I think you've been missing the point, distracted by the magicalness of these items. The introduction of magic has actually heightened the sense of impending doom and mortality for the characters. They have to use these enhanced weapons to stay alive because the stakes have heightened. And it was specifically because of the danger of the Berserk Armor that Guts had to grapple with what was most important to him during volume 27. Time and time again, Guts has to wrestle between his good and base desires as a result of using this magical armor.

Again, different view. Yes, I see your point, but I like it better if the humans win battles by their own skill and strength and growth. I was not talking so much about Guts armor since that just brings a whole new extra dimension to the story and his struggle. I was talking about magical daggers and summoning spirits and mystical capes. FOR ME, that makes it feel like the characters aren't winning completely by their own merits anymore once they start using those things in more battles. So yes, for me that cheapens those characters a (slight) bit. And with Guts, using his armor also brings a great burden so having it makes him vulnerable and still very human at the same time so to his thing there is a something to balance it out. Just minor complaints, just how I personally feel about those things. Do I still like the story? Well, yes.

If anyone feels offended by me not thinking Griffith is all that interesting up to this point, well though shit. Just go and quote my post with some generic internet gif that shows your outrage about my opinion enforcing your badassery. Oh wait..was already done.. If you like the parts with Griffith better and simply disagree with my views, more power to ya. To each his own.

To get back on track. I am really curious what the deal with that new girl is. What are her motivations exactly and what role will she play? Really exciting stuff to me, as is that mysterious sea-god. Darn breaks making me wait to find out what is going to happen :(
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Aazealh on March 26, 2010, 11:48:11 AM
It was just my assumption on how many people could feel about it. Not my personal view, nor yours perhaps, but there are quite a few people whom I know that feel/felt like this about certain parts. Not something important enough to quote me about. Quite a lot of people do feel like this, I was just giving my say on that from a personal view.

I'd say the way you worded it didn't make it sound like it was just an assumption of the way "people" perceive it. Regardless, you're missing Walter's point that "people" have been complaining about stupid shit for as long as "people" have been reading Berserk. That's because the people in question are idiots. That's all there is to it. Your attempt to explain that behavior based on your assumptions is not only redundant but misled and completely unnecessary. You're right though, it's not important.

Opionons. The battle with Ghanishka felt like a farce to me and how big he was, was completely meaningless. We know what Griffith is capable off to an extent and that Ghanishka would be dead the second Griffith actually wanted him dead. So no, for me it felt like "yeah, get the charade on already" Again, opinions, we all get our kicks from different things.

Pardon my French but my, what a load of shit this is. His size was completely meaningless? How about the whole "bringing the astral world into the material world" business? Did that fly over your head? And the gigantic tree he became might very well play a role in the future. Yeah we knew Griffith would win. We knew that before Ganishka (please make the effort of spelling characters' names properly) was even introduced. That's not what the ultimate goal of the encounter was about though. It was to bring the worlds together, just as the humans and apostles in Griffith's army were brought together almost effortlessly under the stress of their first truly challenging battle. And wasn't it also simply cool to see this huge battle of monsters against monsters? And to be introduced to Irvine's apostle form? To see him and Sonia getting closer? But I guess those don't count to you.

Anyway, if Ganishka's giant transformation, the ensuing battle, Femto vs SK and the advent of Falconia & Fantasia only got a "get the charade on already" from you then I truly pity you (and I say this without malice).

I see your point, but I like it better if the humans win battles by their own skill and strength and growth.

Supernatural equipment does nothing to change this. Or should every character be fighting bare-handed? And it's not like receiving new equipment made anyone instantly much stronger than they were before. They all had to learn to use their equipment, they had their failures and they're growing with it as fighters. Yet they'd still get their ass handed to them by an apostle (as shown during the battle at Flora's mansion).

I was not talking so much about Guts armor since that just brings a whole new extra dimension to the story and his struggle. I was talking about magical daggers and summoning spirits and mystical capes. FOR ME, that makes it feel like the characters aren't winning completely by their own merits anymore once they start using those things in more battles.

Ah, so Guts' magical equipment (and his non-magical equipment like grenades and a repeating crossbow) are totally fine but for other characters they're not because... of what? Is Guts not winning by his own merit when he has to use explosives to defeat an enemy? In fact, is he really winning completely by his own merit considering the fact he uses a much better weapon than those he fights against? Not to mention he benefits from free, unlimited magical healing thanks to Puck. How arbitrary.

And by "magical daggers and summoning spirits and mystical capes" I take it you mean the one magical dagger Isidro use, the one cloak Serpico wears and Schierke, the one character who summons spirits. Schierke is a child who cannot fight conventionally. Are you saying that to win a fight by her own merit in your view she should be killing monsters with a sword? Is that really where you want to go? As for Isidro, he's also just a kid himself, and really his dagger doesn't give an incredible edge in battle. I'd argue that Guts' grenades have been more useful to him than the dagger so far, actually. Especially since he uses it in combination with a standard weapon, and that one of his biggest solo battles (in Vritannis against the pirates) has been without said dagger. So please, tell me in detail how it lowers his merit in battle when he fights giant monsters.

That leaves us with Serpico, whose equipment actually has been helping him a lot, it's true. But then again, he's been using it against supernatural monsters he could have done nothing against otherwise, and it's not like it's made him so extraordinarily powerful that he can do much more than help Guts. In fact he still managed to get himself wounded half the times he tried something on his own so far (e.g. against the trolls in Enoch, against the Makara on the beach). Again, like Walter said, the equipment Serpico received doesn't even make up for how drastically the stakes have been raised. Look again at the fight against Daiba and Ganishka in Vritannis and try to tell me how Serpico would have done "on his own merit" with a simple sword.

And parallelly to all this, Serpico's insecurities have only grown. These new abilities have done nothing to reinforce his self-confidence and he seems more confused than ever by his situation. You can add to that the fact Schierke's abilities hurt the confidence of more than one character, particularly Isidro (and it drove Farnese to become her student). It's not like all those elements have had no repercussions other than during fights. And aren't those the aspects of the story you said interested you? Because it doesn't look like you're taking them into account here.

If anyone feels offended by me not thinking Griffith is all that interesting up to this point, well though shit.

Yeah man, and if you're bothered that people reply to what you post, well "TOUGH SHIT" too. Here, I'll even throw in a complementary image macro:

(http://aazealh.net/Divers/MassEffect/DWI.jpg)

To get back on track. I am really curious what the deal with that new girl is. What are her motivations exactly and what role will she play? Really exciting stuff to me, as is that mysterious sea-god.

I'd quote my own posts but I'm sure you can read the thread to find out. :iva:
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: pjboom on March 27, 2010, 06:19:54 AM
Amen Aazealh, sorry but I had to say it.

By the way, if Isma eventually joins the party that would cover the 3 elements, only earth would remain. This is just an opinion but maybe Miura is building the party in order to introduce some kind of help from the 4 elemental Kings, since they are probably the only entities close to the God hand in power terms (just speculation though).
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Dar Klink on March 27, 2010, 06:26:08 AM
Amen Aazealh, sorry but I had to say it.

By the way, if Isma eventually joins the party that would cover the 3 elements, only earth would remain. This is just an opinion but maybe Miura is building the party in order to introduce some kind of help from the 4 elemental Kings, since they are probably the only entities close to the God hand in power terms (just speculation though).
Well, the axe that Guts didn't accept was of the Earth element. Not saying that rules out another person joining with Earth though.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Aazealh on March 27, 2010, 09:29:55 AM
Amen Aazealh, sorry but I had to say it.

Well thanks. :serpico:

By the way, if Isma eventually joins the party that would cover the 3 elements, only earth would remain. This is just an opinion but maybe Miura is building the party in order to introduce some kind of help from the 4 elemental Kings, since they are probably the only entities close to the God hand in power terms (just speculation though).

Possibly, though I'm not sure he's going to give each member their own favorite element. Regarding Earth anyway I always thought it would fit Azan perfectly.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Omega Tom Hanks on April 02, 2010, 08:45:29 PM
Long time no talk.

Anyways I was wondering and this might seem a retarded question, actually it is but I have to be sure. Is the island there on now Elfhelm? or just a island they had to rest up on?
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Aazealh on April 02, 2010, 08:47:41 PM
Anyways I was wondering and this might seem a retarded question, actually it is but I have to be sure. Is the island there on now Elfhelm? or just a island they had to rest up on?

It's just a tiny island they anchored by for the day so they could fix the ship. You'd know that if you read the episodes.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Omega Tom Hanks on April 02, 2010, 08:51:19 PM
Well I did read and or assumed as much. Anyways to be honest I needed a reason to post on here again I missed talking to you guys... :judo: Anyways what's with this new girl is she possessed or is she the spirit itself?

Also is the pirate captain demon dude dead or is he still around waiting to strike?
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Aazealh on April 02, 2010, 09:09:23 PM
Well I did read and or assumed as much.

Then why did you ask?

Anyways what's with this new girl is she possessed or is she the spirit itself?

She's not the Sea God, but she definitely is not a normal human either. You can read this thread if you want more details.

Also is the pirate captain demon dude dead or is he still around waiting to strike?

He's not dead (well technically he is, but you get the idea), as you'd know if you had (attentively?) read the episodes. But I'm guessing you assumed as much.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Jaze1618 on April 02, 2010, 09:19:54 PM
Hi Omega Tom Hanks,

If after reading Aaz's replies, you still find yourself wanting to insist that YOU DID read them, I would suggest questioning the integrity of the sources used to read said episodes.

However, if your source was SK.net, a cloud of suspicion has now been cast over your own reading comprehension on this particular day of reading.

Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Doc on April 04, 2010, 09:54:14 AM
By the way, if Isma eventually joins the party that would cover the 3 elements, only earth would remain. This is just an opinion but maybe Miura is building the party in order to introduce some kind of help from the 4 elemental Kings, since they are probably the only entities close to the God hand in power terms (just speculation though).

This then begs the question: Who would be Heart?
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: TheBranded1 on April 04, 2010, 12:22:26 PM
This then begs the question: Who would be Heart?

And with all elements combined. YOu'll have this. :troll:

(http://thepointofitall.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/captainplanet.jpg)
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Jaccuri on April 04, 2010, 10:12:43 PM
And with all elements combined. YOu'll have this. :troll:

ROFL, i can't  believe I used to watch that.

Edit: BTW, does anyone know when the next issue is coming out?
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Walter on April 04, 2010, 10:36:37 PM
Edit: BTW, does anyone know when the next issue is coming out?
Still unknown. We'd post it here if we knew.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: EndlessSky on April 13, 2010, 01:19:41 AM
I very much enjoyed this episode and have always been satisfied with the direction and tone Berserk has been taking. One of my favorite things about Berserk is how it is a dynamic ever changing and evolving world. In my opinion this makes its feel more believable and interesting to learn about.

I don't understand why people complain so much since Berserk has always been amazing in quality.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Aphasia on April 13, 2010, 01:30:40 AM
I very much enjoyed this episode and have always been satisfied with the direction and tone Berserk has been taking. One of my favorite things about Berserk is how it is a dynamic ever changing and evolving world. In my opinion this makes its feel more believable and interesting to learn about.

I don't understand why people complain so much since Berserk has always been amazing in quality.

Because focusing on building a quality story and taking the time to build upon new relationships and places doesn't always result in ACTION!!!
Also, people will always find something to complain about...seems to be the case, anyways.  I certainly agree with you, the story has only grown so much more interesting.  

Its incredible to believe just how much has happened in the story so far with everyone involved in the group.  I love how Miura has built upon the character of each individual, Farense and Serpico, Guts and Schierke...They're all so dynamic in terms of how their personalities have changed due to the circumstances, and that's certainly a treat that not all manga's can sport.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: robinhood on April 30, 2010, 03:21:23 AM
alright guys.... there has been way to many long waiting periods between episodes this past year or two. I'm getting a strong feeling that we'll never see the end of berserk- at least not in the next ten years! By that time many could loose interest. Not saying this with any delight
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Bekul on April 30, 2010, 03:31:51 AM
alright guys.... there has been way to many long waiting periods between episodes this past year or two. I'm getting a strong feeling that we'll never see the end of berserk- at least not in the next ten years! By that time many could loose interest. Not saying this with any delight

 :ganishka:

Are you serious or trolling?
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Dar Klink on April 30, 2010, 03:37:02 AM
alright guys.... there has been way to many long waiting periods between episodes this past year or two. I'm getting a strong feeling that we'll never see the end of berserk- at least not in the next ten years! By that time many could loose interest. Not saying this with any delight
Your point is original and refreshing and really can lead to some great discussion and insight into Berserk's story. :mozgus:
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Scorpio on April 30, 2010, 04:15:57 AM
By that time many could loose interest.

And nothing of value was lost...
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: robinhood on April 30, 2010, 04:18:07 AM
I wish I was not serious, but I am.  SERIOUSLY though- how many hiatuses have there been in the last two years!? just saying..... :???:
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Xem on April 30, 2010, 04:47:07 AM
I wish I was not serious, but I am.  SERIOUSLY though- how many hiatuses have there been in the last two years!? just saying..... :???:

How many times have you been let down after a "hiatus" ?

Miura has been gracious enough to explain to us why he takes breaks and even tell us some details as to what he's been doing during them. There's no reason to be alarmed whatsoever. If anything, take pride that you're around to experience such expertise. SERIOUSLY
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Death May Die on May 03, 2010, 05:28:45 AM
I wish I was not serious, but I am.  SERIOUSLY though- how many hiatuses have there been in the last two years!? just saying..... :???:

Well, at this rate a hiatuses should be no surprised right? Then why are you surprised? Invest in things to kill time, what else can you really do? You already knew that.

Me personally, have becoming more embedded with a overall scheme of Berserk, from a Manga into a long investment. I've been coming here so long, there is no longer "BERSERK THE MANGA." I can't help it but now its BERSERK, and the SKULLKNIGHT.NET association. Both are a investment of my time and money, as it is for almost everyone here. I may not have the latest manga episode to read, but damn it I have a forum to invest my unhealthy Berserk cravings into. I don't know if SK.NET feels worthy of that, but just like the breaks..... too bad.  :serpico: Berserk is so good, no other manga is worthy of such commitment. Its not even a manga to me now, it somehow has become some more, something very special and is only somehow delivered into my hands in a manga form, which is always in perfection. Speaking for myself of course.

 Keep real busy and there will be another episode before you know it. Miura isn't torturing you, your torturing yourself.  :beast:
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Truder on May 03, 2010, 06:34:24 AM
Keep real busy and there will be another episode before you know it. Miura isn't torturing you, your torturing yourself.  :beast:
I keep busy by twiddling my thumbs :guts:
Do these forums usually explode with activity when a new episode comes out?
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Death May Die on May 03, 2010, 06:38:32 AM
You might say that, IDK. Its a good time to be had by all, thats all I know. SK.net makes that possible.  :guts:
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Hazanko on May 10, 2010, 08:34:12 PM
*Been Waiting so long*  :carcus:

I agree though, in the 3 minute span it will take me to read those 20 pages, ive never been let down after a hiatus
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Oburi on May 10, 2010, 10:02:40 PM
20 pages in three minutes? That's too fast for me. I like to read 1 page a day after a new episode is released. It really helps spread the story out and make the breaks seem shorter :-)
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: CowTip on May 10, 2010, 10:41:32 PM
I've taken to more or less ignoring Berserk for 6 month spans so I get slightly meatier chunks when I do read it (though at current release rates I should honestly let a year pass  :serpico:)

It's actually troublesome though because I have a hard time avoiding reading what others say here about the episodes when they are released so when I do get around to reading the actual thing it's usually not as exciting as when I read the first 20 or so volumes all at once without spoilers.

There's something to be said for getting to see the story as it progresses but I can't help but feel envious to the people who get to read it all together ten, twenty..... thirty years down the road.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Gobolatula on May 11, 2010, 07:25:32 AM
Oburi, you're insane. A page a day with new eps? Man... It'd drive me batty.

It does take me a good two-three days to fully absorb a new one though, so I kinda get where you're coming from. I usually read through the thing pretty quick, because I usually can't contain my excitedness. Then I'll go back to the beginning and stare at each page, panel-by-panel for a long time. Then skip around to different pages. Then read the episode thread. Then re-read the episode with people's comments in mind. Then again. And again. It's fun.

...Anyway, perhaps there should be a separate thread (if there already isn't) about how we all personally cope with larger gaps between releases... Mr. Miura's process is one to be respected, obviously, but we can all agree that we miss Berserk when it doesn't come out with each YA that's released.

Me, personally, I reread previous episodes / entire chunks of story in no particular order, picking apart in my brain how they relate to the current story arc and where the characters are all at.

This board is actually a great place for a steady stream of new Berserk, whether it's fan art / general creative works, merchandise, story discussion, and the ultimate news and eventual discussion of new episodes...

When you're aching for new Berserk, just know you're not alone. And chill.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Aazealh on May 11, 2010, 08:33:38 AM
I've taken to more or less ignoring Berserk for 6 month spans so I get slightly meatier chunks when I do read it (though at current release rates I should honestly let a year pass  :serpico:)

It's actually troublesome though because I have a hard time avoiding reading what others say here about the episodes when they are released so when I do get around to reading the actual thing it's usually not as exciting as when I read the first 20 or so volumes all at once without spoilers.

I understand the motive, but honestly I think you should just follow the episodes as they are released. You're just torturing yourself otherwise. And while it's definitely gratifying to read a whole volume at once, I would argue that there is a lot of merit in perusing episodes individually. Not to mention the pleasure of watching it all come together after a while.

Anyway, perhaps there should be a separate thread (if there already isn't) about how we all personally cope with larger gaps between releases...

You can make one if you want.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Oburi on May 11, 2010, 03:49:27 PM
Oburi, you're insane. A page a day with new eps? Man... It'd drive me batty.


I was only kidding. But three minutes is still way too fast!
Quote
Anyway, perhaps there should be a separate thread (if there already isn't) about how we all personally cope with larger gaps between releases.

Whatever happened to those manga re-read threads huh?  :casca:
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Death May Die on May 11, 2010, 10:46:28 PM

Whatever happened to those manga re-read threads huh?  :casca:

Yeah, I just start over and re-read the series every time I reach the end. (With breaks of time before starting over.) I find something new every time. When it comes to new release, I read it, and really just kinda forget about it. That way there isn't a lot of weight on the following episode. When a new one finally comes out, I re-read the episode before the new one the remind myself whats going on. That's my pattern. But tell you what, what feels almost as good as getting a new episode is simply spreading the word about Berserk. I refer to it as "Converting." I let my friends borrow the DVD, which they love, then express deeply they should check out the Manga. Its getting them to convert from the anime to the manga that is the hardest part, but once you done it. Its a great feeling.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Oburi on May 12, 2010, 02:15:49 PM
I know what you mean Death, I feel like my number one mission in life is to spread the book of Berserk sometimes. I can't tell you how many people I've "converted". Problem is my manga has taken a beating, at least my Darkhorse copies. That gave me incentive to go out and purchase the Japanese editions to treasure for everandever. In fact I'm in the middle of moving right now and I'm going through all my crap when my dad asked me about my manga collection. I said I'll sell most most it, but Berserk stays, I want my kids to have it.


He looked about as confused as when I showed him my tattoo.


As for re-reading the series goes, I find that I've been starting with book 22, when the Millennium Falcon arc starts. Not sure why but I just love the way that arc starts and works out, like that's the main story and everything else has been leading up to that point. That's also when I think the artwork really becomes remarkable. Berserk was always very detailed but you can almost tell once Millennium Falcon starts the work takes on a new seriousness. I also (in my own mind) like to imagine that arc as the "true" beginning to the "main" story. I can't really think of anything else to compare it too, but it's kinda like when the Beatles stopped touring and stopped making poppy boy likes girl songs and decided to concentrate on their albums. From that point on they made Revolver, Sergent Pepper, Abby Road, etc, their true masterpieces. It's a terrible comparison but you get the gist. It's how a feel about the Millennium Falcon Arc, the true masterwork of the series and the most memorable among it's many epic story lines.

Ahh ranting in episode threads during breaks, gatta love it.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Panicfactorx on May 28, 2010, 05:36:42 AM
The sea god looks a bit like Chuthulu. I wonder if Miura meant to do that? Of course anything aquatic could be represented by the Octopus, but it seems to be a reference to the Old Ones. The episode is pretty interesting. I'm under the impression Isma is the sea god... or like a fragment of the creature.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Aazealh on May 28, 2010, 07:00:54 AM
The sea god looks a bit like Chuthulu. [...] I'm under the impression Isma is the sea god...

I detect a flaw in your reasoning. Does Isma look like Cthulhu? :iva:
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Panicfactorx on May 28, 2010, 07:29:09 AM
I detect a flaw in your reasoning. Does Isma look like Cthulhu? :iva:


No, but all beasties in the Berserk world have at least two forms. Yet at the same time the idol could be a misrepresentation... just a thought... 
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Aazealh on May 28, 2010, 07:42:22 AM
No, but all beasties in the Berserk world have at least two forms.

Nah, that's not true. See for example trolls, ogres, kelpies, and many other astral creatures.

Yet at the same time the idol could be a misrepresentation... just a thought...

That's true, it could be. However at this point I believe the Sea God's true form will be close to the idol. Isma seems to be independent from it and fundamentally good at heart.
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Panicfactorx on May 28, 2010, 08:12:04 AM
Nah, that's not true. See for example trolls, ogres, kelpies, and many other astral creatures.

True that

That's true, it could be. However at this point I believe the Sea God's true form will be close to the idol. Isma seems to be independent from it and fundamentally good at heart.

Her benevolence could just be from curiosity. The last scene, Schierke's astral vision, I got the feeling Isma was throwing up some power (being territorial) when she felt Schierke's power... but I guess its only speculation at this point... HAHA!  :ubik:
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Aazealh on May 28, 2010, 08:52:43 AM
Her benevolence could just be from curiosity.

From her general behavior I don't think so. Like I said before in the thread, she's the one who mentioned the Sea God and how horrible it is in the first place, and her attitude as well as the way she's been depicted so far don't correspond to what it's supposed to be (a big, evil and very powerful monster).

The last scene, Schierke's astral vision, I got the feeling Isma was throwing up some power (being territorial) when she felt Schierke's power... but I guess its only speculation at this point... HAHA!  :ubik:

Hahaha, speculation, eh? Well I'll bet you that Isma hasn't done anything and that Schierke just saw her for what she really is, since she can perceive the astral side of things. :slan:
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Panicfactorx on May 28, 2010, 09:44:25 AM
...her attitude as well as the way she's been depicted so far don't correspond to what it's supposed to be (a big, evil and very powerful monster).
Well I'll bet you...

She's a wild god with a sense of self depreciating humor, I don't know, we could spend months debating our opinions...hah! :badbone: Anyway we'll just have to see!  :guts:
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Aazealh on May 28, 2010, 11:29:53 AM
She's a wild god with a sense of self depreciating humor, I don't know, we could spend months debating our opinions...hah! :badbone: Anyway we'll just have to see!

Actually I think it goes a little beyond opinions here (see my previous posts on the subject in this thread). But you're right, we'll see. :carcus:
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Shadax on June 02, 2010, 06:11:18 AM
I'd say the way you worded it didn't make it sound like it was just an assumption of the way "people" perceive it. Regardless, you're missing Walter's point that "people" have been complaining about stupid shit for as long as "people" have been reading Berserk. That's because the people in question are idiots. That's all there is to it. Your attempt to explain that behavior based on your assumptions is not only redundant but misled and completely unnecessary. You're right though, it's not important.

Pardon my French but my, what a load of shit this is. His size was completely meaningless? How about the whole "bringing the astral world into the material world" business? Did that fly over your head? And the gigantic tree he became might very well play a role in the future. Yeah we knew Griffith would win. We knew that before Ganishka (please make the effort of spelling characters' names properly) was even introduced. That's not what the ultimate goal of the encounter was about though. It was to bring the worlds together, just as the humans and apostles in Griffith's army were brought together almost effortlessly under the stress of their first truly challenging battle. And wasn't it also simply cool to see this huge battle of monsters against monsters? And to be introduced to Irvine's apostle form? To see him and Sonia getting closer? But I guess those don't count to you.

Anyway, if Ganishka's giant transformation, the ensuing battle, Femto vs SK and the advent of Falconia & Fantasia only got a "get the charade on already" from you then I truly pity you (and I say this without malice).

Supernatural equipment does nothing to change this. Or should every character be fighting bare-handed? And it's not like receiving new equipment made anyone instantly much stronger than they were before. They all had to learn to use their equipment, they had their failures and they're growing with it as fighters. Yet they'd still get their ass handed to them by an apostle (as shown during the battle at Flora's mansion).

Ah, so Guts' magical equipment (and his non-magical equipment like grenades and a repeating crossbow) are totally fine but for other characters they're not because... of what? Is Guts not winning by his own merit when he has to use explosives to defeat an enemy? In fact, is he really winning completely by his own merit considering the fact he uses a much better weapon than those he fights against? Not to mention he benefits from free, unlimited magical healing thanks to Puck. How arbitrary.

And by "magical daggers and summoning spirits and mystical capes" I take it you mean the one magical dagger Isidro use, the one cloak Serpico wears and Schierke, the one character who summons spirits. Schierke is a child who cannot fight conventionally. Are you saying that to win a fight by her own merit in your view she should be killing monsters with a sword? Is that really where you want to go? As for Isidro, he's also just a kid himself, and really his dagger doesn't give an incredible edge in battle. I'd argue that Guts' grenades have been more useful to him than the dagger so far, actually. Especially since he uses it in combination with a standard weapon, and that one of his biggest solo battles (in Vritannis against the pirates) has been without said dagger. So please, tell me in detail how it lowers his merit in battle when he fights giant monsters.

That leaves us with Serpico, whose equipment actually has been helping him a lot, it's true. But then again, he's been using it against supernatural monsters he could have done nothing against otherwise, and it's not like it's made him so extraordinarily powerful that he can do much more than help Guts. In fact he still managed to get himself wounded half the times he tried something on his own so far (e.g. against the trolls in Enoch, against the Makara on the beach). Again, like Walter said, the equipment Serpico received doesn't even make up for how drastically the stakes have been raised. Look again at the fight against Daiba and Ganishka in Vritannis and try to tell me how Serpico would have done "on his own merit" with a simple sword.

And parallelly to all this, Serpico's insecurities have only grown. These new abilities have done nothing to reinforce his self-confidence and he seems more confused than ever by his situation. You can add to that the fact Schierke's abilities hurt the confidence of more than one character, particularly Isidro (and it drove Farnese to become her student). It's not like all those elements have had no repercussions other than during fights. And aren't those the aspects of the story you said interested you? Because it doesn't look like you're taking them into account here.

Yeah man, and if you're bothered that people reply to what you post, well "TOUGH SHIT" too. Here, I'll even throw in a complementary image macro:

(http://aazealh.net/Divers/MassEffect/DWI.jpg)

I'd quote my own posts but I'm sure you can read the thread to find out. :iva:

Ok, I haven't been here in a while so yes, this is a reply to an old post.

Seriously, what is wrong with you?(plural) You seem like such an intelligent bunch most of the time, yet at other times you seem to go with kneejerk reactions just looking for things to flame even if there is no reason. You guys interpretted my words like you wanted them to and followed up with some childish personal attacks. There was never any real negativity in my tone about the big release gaps. Do I hate the fact that the releases are so far in between? Sure, because I'm a big fan and can't wait for the next one to come out because I love it so much ( yes, that is negativity, but not in the way I was made out to be). Do I understand Miura taking so long on them Yes, I am active in the art world myself so I know how creative processes work and how long something can take, especially if you are truly passionate about it. Do I blame him? No, not at all and it wasn't stated in my post. Throwing people under the bus for hating the long release gaps or calling them "bad fans" or not fans at all is just petty elitist bullcrap. If you love something and You have to wait for it a very long time each time, of course you are going to hate the waiting times, it's only human and being passionate. That's all I'm gonna say.

Now, enough of this. No looking for fights, back to the lighthearted intelligent stuff and discussing Berserk. I come here for the many enlightened intelligent discussions about Berserk and I hope they continue.

Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Gobolatula on June 02, 2010, 06:38:31 AM
I come here for the many enlightened intelligent discussions about Berserk and I hope they continue.
What do you guys think mermaid powers are like?
Title: Re: Episode 312
Post by: Aazealh on June 02, 2010, 07:29:42 AM
Ok, I haven't been here in a while so yes, this is a reply to an old post.

More importantly, it's a "reply" that isn't actually replying to what it's quoting. Looks like you didn't have anything concrete to argue, so you resorted to the good old martyr angle. Honestly, it would have been better for you to pretend it never happened, as I had already forgotten about it myself.

Seriously, what is wrong with you?(plural) You seem like such an intelligent bunch most of the time, yet at other times you seem to go with kneejerk reactions just looking for things to flame even if there is no reason. You guys interpretted my words like you wanted them to and followed up with some childish personal attacks.

Yeah man, the problem must lie with the community and not with you, right? That's the only logical explanation. Usually such a great bunch, but when we disagree with you, we're suddenly the worst. It's as if... it all hinged on your subjective perception of things?! Well, tell you what: we're always the same. The problem, the varying factor lies with you. The responses you got were very much warranted (and not especially harsh given the context), and no one was any more childish than you were yourself. As for taking liberties in the interpretation of your words, I don't see how. And I don't think you can show me how either.

There was never any real negativity in my tone about the big release gaps. Do I hate the fact that the releases are so far in between? Sure, because I'm a big fan and can't wait for the next one to come out because I love it so much ( yes, that is negativity, but not in the way I was made out to be). Do I understand Miura taking so long on them Yes, I am active in the art world myself so I know how creative processes work and how long something can take, especially if you are truly passionate about it. Do I blame him? No, not at all and it wasn't stated in my post. Throwing people under the bus for hating the long release gaps or calling them "bad fans" or not fans at all is just petty elitist bullcrap. If you love something and You have to wait for it a very long time each time, of course you are going to hate the waiting times, it's only human and being passionate. That's all I'm gonna say.

Now you're just being dishonest here. Dishonest and ridiculous. Have you even read the post you're quoting? If you have, did you see me take issue with whatever it is you said about being eager for new releases? NOPE. What Walter responded to, and what I picked on in turn, was what you said about certain parts of the story. We vouched for the worth of certain parts of the story that you were harshly criticizing without providing any good reason for it. You're on a forum dedicated to Berserk, and if you know the community the least bit you should have known people would disagree with you and be vocal about it. Needless to say, being disingenuous and trying to change the topic is not the best course of action right now.