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Berserk => Anime Asylum => Topic started by: Walter on December 04, 2012, 03:46:49 AM

Title: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Walter on December 04, 2012, 03:46:49 AM
For those who have seen the second Berserk movie, please post your reviews here, and leave a vote in the poll.

Thanks in advance!  :void:
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: SamNeillium on December 04, 2012, 04:48:43 AM
Not to be nitpikcy, but it seems like there should be an option between 'excellent' and 'so-so'. I haven't seen the second movie yet, but if this were a thread for the first movie, I'd kind of be forced into saying it was 'so-so'. I definitely didn't think it was excellent, but 'so-so' just seems like barely a step above poor.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Gobolatula on December 04, 2012, 03:33:34 PM
Anyone have theirs yet? If so REVIEWS & SCREEN SHOTS ASAP PLS!!

Mine shipped, but the tracking number isn't working yet..

Walter, are you guys gonna do another special edition of the podcast? You better...
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Rhombaad on December 04, 2012, 05:05:26 PM
Walter, are you guys gonna do another special edition of the podcast? You better...

I'd also love to hear Walter's, Azealh's and Griffith's thoughts on the second movie.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Walter on December 04, 2012, 05:12:45 PM
Uhh, well I'll be happy to have a few people who have seen it to discuss it on the show.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: JezzaX on December 04, 2012, 06:51:46 PM
Mine will be with me Thursday, I'll be sure to post up images if no one else has by then.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Gobolatula on December 04, 2012, 11:03:26 PM
Mine will be with me Thursday, I'll be sure to post up images if no one else has by then.
Gahhh mine too. I'll probably have to wait til Friday to watch mine though.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: DirectDK on December 05, 2012, 12:17:03 AM
My bluray comes tomorrrowwwwwwww!
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: IncantatioN on December 05, 2012, 02:14:02 AM
My bluray comes tomorrrowwwwwwww!
Ditto, 10:30 AM : p ... but I'll have a long loooong day at work, so :'/

EDIT: My order just came in and for folks who are expecting it or who have not ordered it yet, this is what the outside looks like.

(http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee500/Piraancantation/20121205_093031.jpg)

(http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee500/Piraancantation/20121205_093107.jpg)

Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Rhombaad on December 05, 2012, 04:46:15 PM
I really like Miura's cover illustration, but it's not enough for me to buy the movie, based on the disappointing reviews that have come in so far.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: DirectDK on December 06, 2012, 03:55:49 AM
I watched all the extras and the first 8 or so minutes of the movie.  I want to watch it allllll, but I feel like waiting for a fansub of it.

The movie starts with a brief recap, and then the opening credits again.  The opening credits are mostly the same, but they interweaved some new footage in some of the cuts.  After the credits are done, it starts right in the middle of the battle where afterwards Adon and Casca fight and then she and Guts fall into the river below.  I thought the visuals were really beautiful and Guts already pulled some bad-assery moves on the enemies.  I'm already liking the animation better than the first.  The 5.1 surround sound was excellently done during the battle.  A ton of motion in the rear speakers.  Oh, and Adon's horse was kinda cute looking, hahaha.

The extras had 5 trailers.  The wretched "Disney international" one, the trailer for movie III, and then 3 trailers for movie 1: English dub, French dub, and Russian dub (I think).  Hearing the French voice actors was a pleasant surprised.  I don't know a single bit of French, but it sounded like it fit really well, and it sounded very dynamic and expressive, much like the Japanese language sounds to me.

The final extra was SUSUMU HIRASAWA performing ARIA live.  That was some DOPE ASS SHIT!  I wish I could rip it for you guys but I don't have a bluray drive on my computer.  I'm sure someone out there will do it in due time.

Anyways, so far so good!  I'm really looking forward to seeing the rest.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: JezzaX on December 06, 2012, 10:58:29 AM
My copy has arrived but I'm stuck at work, I shall try to provide a review once I've seen it this evening.

EDIT:

WARNING POTENTIAL SPOILERS AHEAD!

First off, the animation at the beginning of the film between Casca and Adon is horrendous, you can really tell where the CG is being too heavily used, it's like a cheap Children's show on Nickelodeon, the lines on Adon as he closes in on the camera become horribly thick and tacky looking.

Once Guts and Casca reach the woods the animation appears to pick up slightly, but even some of the 2D artwork and animation isn't brilliant. Then we're met with the choppy flashback scene that we got from the Young Animal clip I posted a while back, we all know how painful that is, not only in animation but for accuracy, at least the music shortly after makes up for it (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li1LyFOiH3s).

We very quickly move on to the 100 man battle, still with a lot of CG, likely to deal with the amount of people on screen at once, but it doesn't hold up too well, it's fairly choppy in places, but at least Adon is looking a little bit better. I do find some amusement in Guts throwing his helmet at an opponent though and some of the camera scanning is a nice touch. Guts does have a real sense of struggle about him during this scene, they seem to have carried this over quite nicely. It would appear that rather cocky sword volley has disappeared (although I may have just missed it, yep I missed it, it's still there) and Samson doesn't make an appearance either.

We seem to see Guts going Berserk for the first time and have a real indication of what to expect when he becomes the Black Swordsman. The amount of destruction Guts has left in the battle is very heavily shown and appears really impressive, the lighting for this scene is also quite nice with added morning mist over the top. Hang on, what's this?! They've captured Adon?! Okay, let's see how this works out.

In the next scene we're greeted with a cow being launched from a catapult (so there goes our campfire of dreams scene) at the Castle and yet more horrendous CG moments where characters appear to be missing chins because the cel shading is ineffective. The most simple scenes are probably the most neatly animated. The meeting with the king to plan the battle is probably the cleanest of all the scenes in the film so far, but I feel like we've gotten here far too quickly, but then we know they have to cram things into a set running time.

Gennon appears and sounds more like Shun Di from the Virtua Fighter series in this interpretation  :magni:

More choppy CG animation shortly after of the Hawks leading the attack on Doldrey, we see Boscone gearing up to take part in the battle. There are some real hit and miss moments during this battle, some things are particularly impressive from a distance to show the scale, but up close they just look shoddy, it's all pretty inconsistent, the music also leaves little to be desired, someone really needs to re-dub this with Forces.

As the scene develops, we appear to see and hear more from the Hawks, with a little bit of show from Corkus, but not enough to do much in the ways of character development. Casca is doing a princess Leia wandering into the castle leading in Adon with her Crossbow...now that's a bit of a let down and a real change from the original plan of action   :sad: Adon breaks free from being captured and challenges Casca.

Now we're on to the fight between Guts and Boscone. We see only bits and pieces of the fight as it goes back between this one and Casca with Adon. What's going on IN the castle seems to have very little involvement, it doesn't have the same impact as the manga or the 97 anime series
in any way, Casca is keen to take on Adon herself with no interference from anyone else, she is soon backed up against a wall by Adon, instead of using her sword, like she does in the manga, she manages to dodge his attack, take his sword and jam it through his mouth. Much like everything Studio 4C has done so far, I see no reason why this needed changing.

Back on to Guts who has since been knocked off his horse, we see Boscone do a single sweep against multiple Hawks soldiers showering the place with blood and guts, which is quite a nice touch. Guts throws a flag at Boscone to distract him before following up with an attack to cut both him and his horse in half. Now this is the point where I get both mad and upset about the removal of  :zodd: and Studio 4C make more fucking retarded changes  :judo: Of course, now we see the Hawks have taken the castle and there's a little celebration among Pippin, Corkus, Judo, Rickert etc. Griffith has his standard talk with Gennon before putting a sword through his eye.

We've had a little battlefield reflection and a view of the damage before the village celebrations of everyone returning from battle. There's a lot of towns folk being animated in this scene, we even see a girl climb up on Corkus' horse to give him a bit of a snog? WTF?! :farnese: We see Guts have his interaction with Gaston, which is nice, but I can't help but feel that across both the films so far that he's gotten even more character development than the rest of The Hawks.

On to the ballroom scene, we actually appear to be getting some development from the Hawks and then we're greeted with....
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/483435_10151191160225963_300252866_n.jpg)
so it appears Azan is in there too..

Guts and Casca have their talk outside, they come back in to a speech from the king and alas there is no poisoning of Griffith as we all know. Instead we are greeted with a very awkward dance scene that is not only poorly animated it shows characters portrayed in a way I was hoping I wouldn't see them. Guts and Casca dancing? FUCK NO! NO STUDIO 4C! NO!

Cut to the next morning, Guts is leaving through a snow covered land, where Casca and co. are waiting for him up ahead. Now, this scene doesn't make sense, as we didn't see any of the Hawks foreseeing Guts leaving, so them being there doesn't quite add up. Corkus has a lot to say in this instance. We soon move on to the duel between Guts and Griffith, which has a fair amount of build up and has some nice visual effects when looking out over the landscape behind them, despite the inaccurate and horribly flawed character layout. I also wonder why there is a massive circle left around them when Guts swings his sword down, it seems a little exaggerated to me. Guts sure enough leaves with Griffith in his state of despair.

We're then on to Charlotte's sensitive boobs, which is another awkward scene we could all do without  :schierke: but we're soon in a full blown and rather erotic sex scene that's a little bit more pornographic than I had initially expected, which may give us some ideas to how they will handle the eclipse. This scene also uses the horrible stuttering frame rate you get during Casca's flashback, but luckily not to the same extent, but bizarrely you get Griffith having visions of Guts whilst having sex.

As expected, Griffith is caught the next morning, with the rest of the Hawks wandering around without armour, freezing cold and with Pippin doing his thing to warn of the impending attack, which is actually quite brutal I might add. This is intertwined with the king whipping away at Griffith as he hangs in his chamber. As we go back we can see the Hawks doing every attempt to escape the onslaught.

Soon after, we have our next cameo

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/12556_10151191192745963_1670249263_n.jpg)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/32428_10151191194360963_1954815920_n.jpg)

This all happens as Guts passes by two wagons, he looks up as if he senses Puck's presence. Puck has also looked up in a similar way.


We cut back to the torture chamber with Griffith. Griffith is now being tortured by the guard, who knocks off his beherit into the drain. We can see the beherit floating away, which brings us to the end and a montage of what to expect from the third film.


A few fan favourites:

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/526815_10151191199950963_1591269712_n.jpg)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/537532_10151191203330963_1681953890_n.jpg)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/320675_10151191203310963_858941775_n.jpg)



Overall, I was as disappointed in the film as I was expecting to be. The animation was sloppy, the direction equally so. There were so many meaningful moments from the manga that has been omitted that it's not even the same story any more, or at least not the same depth of what it should be. I believe they have really tried to give each character some screen time, but they're bulking out various areas within the film that don't need bulking, I can't help but feel the time could have been used more wisely. Also, that ball room dance scene is the possibly the worst bastardisation I have seen so far, but it's in a tie for the removal of Zodd.

Regardless, I'm still somewhat looking forward to seeing the third film, since it could prove to have some things done quite nicely from what we've seen so far and I'm hoping that Studio 4C have both found their feet and seen the error of their ways through fan complaints by now. but for now, I'm pretty Sure that The Battle for Doldrey is a step in the WRONG direction.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Saephon on December 06, 2012, 10:33:30 PM
Seeing that image elicits this primal excitement in me that just wants to see the later arcs animated. I have to remind myself that I'm outraged.  :iva:
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: JezzaX on December 06, 2012, 11:20:35 PM
It has sparked curiosity in me, but not necessarily in a good way.

One thing I forgot to mention. The Live performance of Aria is fucking awesome!
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Walter on December 06, 2012, 11:43:29 PM
Thanks for the detailed review and all the images, Jezza!

Hang on, what's this?! They've captured Adon?! Okay, let's see how this works out.
Quote
Casca is doing a princess Leia wandering into the castle leading in Adon with her Crossbow...now that's a bit of a let down and a real change from the original plan of action   :sad: Adon breaks free from being captured and challenges Casca.
Why are they leading Adon into the castle?

Quote
Guts throws a flag at Boscone to distract him before following up with an attack to cut both him and his horse in half.
.......... (http://skullknight.net/images/gutsbarf.gif) It's so much worse than I imagined it would be... My god, what an embarrassment for poor Boscone.

Quote
On to the ballroom scene, we actually appear to be getting some development from the Hawks and then we're greeted with.... [Farnese, Serpico and Azan]
So, I guess she was commander of the Holy Iron Chain Knights for a full 2 years before she encountered Guts? Whatever...  :schierke:

Quote
but bizarrely you get Griffith having visions of Guts whilst having sex.
That happens in the manga as well. It's made clear that Griffith is fixated on Guts leaving him throughout the seduction scene.

Quote
[Puck image] This all happens as Guts passes by two wagons, he looks up as if he senses Puck's presence. Puck has also looked up in a similar way.
Totally needless addition. He looks pretty good though, I have to say.

Quote
Regardless, I'm still somewhat looking forward to seeing the third film, since it could prove to have some things done quite nicely from what we've seen so far and I'm hoping that Studio 4C have both found their feet and seen the error of their ways through fan complaints by now. but for now, I'm pretty Sure that The Battle for Doldrey is a step in the WRONG direction.
Yep, it's all about what I expected based on the early impressions. But it doesn't dampen my excitement for Descent at all, despite all previous warnings  :void:
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: JezzaX on December 06, 2012, 11:54:48 PM
Why are they leading Adon into the castle?
Casca has her face covered and has Adon held up with a Crossbow. They're using him as a method to get inside the Castle walls, as I would assume the guards would recognise him and let him in.

That happens in the manga as well. It's made clear that Griffith is fixated on Guts leaving him throughout the seduction scene.
It just somehow seemed more perverse here, kind of like he has more of an attraction to Guts. It could just be me and could be why I picked up on it when compared with the manga.

Totally needless addition. He looks pretty good though, I have to say.
Despite it not being entirely needed, I must admit it was a cute little addition.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Nomad on December 07, 2012, 01:19:39 AM
Guts throws a flag at Boscone to distract him before following up with an attack to cut both him and his horse in half.

I'm going ahead and apologize in advance.  This isn't even worth getting for free or pirated.  Yes... I said it. 
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: SrCraneo on December 07, 2012, 01:39:10 AM
Just wow... I bet they thought those cameos would hype people. But c'mon, you shit on the plot of the movie, can't even animate decently and put in characters that other people should have no idea about they exist. This is just sad.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Cronus on December 07, 2012, 05:12:01 AM
Guts throws a flag at Boscone to distract him before following up with an attack to cut both him and his horse in half.

I'm laughing way, WAY too hard at this.
Sounds like another mixed bag, but I enjoyed the first one for what it was and I am very much looking forward to Descent.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: lon3vvolf on December 07, 2012, 05:13:15 AM
Its so late... I have work in 4 hours, Im watching the movie right now. So much things missing but I still love it.  There are a lot of things to nit pick over, but its still awesome.  I like how clean cut everything is.  Its getting better. Cant wait for the 3rd movie.  :ubik:
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Gobolatula on December 07, 2012, 06:48:33 AM
Visually this movie's quite a bit better than the first one, just like Miura said. However, Miura's job is to be humble and grateful, and it's our job to be pissed off.

The CG still sticks out like a sore thumb. The faces are way better during the CG scenes, but still. The parts that are animated by hand are way, way, better. I honestly think I prefer the "cheapness" of the old TV series to this.

I'm with JezzaX. I'm like halfway through and they've cut / changed way too much shit. I miss little scenes like Guts arguing with the doctor after the 100 man slaying. I find myself anticipating things that just don't show up.

Whatever.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: IncantatioN on December 09, 2012, 01:17:06 PM
Read the reviews on here after being hesitant to read it but curiosity got the best of me. My BR is still sealed, waiting on subs.

It must've been hard to type or hit the pause button to type out the review JezzaX, don't think I could do that cos it'd take away from the viewing experience.

Guts and Casca dancing? FUCK NO! NO STUDIO 4C! NO!

We've both known about that scene for months ... you sound surprised.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Gobolatula on December 09, 2012, 01:35:59 PM
I actually thought the dance scene as a whole was cheesy and out of place. Guts and Casca were cute though, twirling around like dummies. It was just a very out-of-character thing for them to do, so it shouldn't have happened.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: JezzaX on December 09, 2012, 07:20:43 PM
Read the reviews on here after being hesitant to read it but curiosity got the best of me. My BR is still sealed, waiting on subs.

It must've been hard to type or hit the pause button to type out the review JezzaX, don't think I could do that cos it'd take away from the viewing experience.

I watched it through twice in one sitting. Without subtitles, my viewing experience wasn't going to be at it's peak (despite knowing the story anyway), so I just covered what I could.

We've both known about that scene for months ... you sound surprised.

I already knew about it, I just wasn't expecting it to be as horrible as it was. I was anticipating a minor dance interval where Guts is briefly shown being dragged to the dance floor, but this was such an image shift for the whole scene when you compare it to Griffith originally being poisoned. The scene is meant to be full of suspense, but instead they decided to Disney it up to the extreme  :mozgus:
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Hanma_Baki on December 12, 2012, 01:24:31 AM
So much things missing but I still love it.  There are a lot of things to nit pick over, but its still awesome.  I like how clean cut everything is.  Its getting better.
I agree, the material that actually made it into the movie is pretty good.

First I just have to say I REALLY dig that soundtrack (later part of 100 man battle and end credits) sorry for not giving any links (its already annoying browsing the web with an android as it is). Haven't been too observant of the music up to this point, and I know its the same song as in the first movie but that acoustic version really set the tone. I'm def gonna get the entire OST just from hearing that piece.

I really only got one big complaint about the animation, and thats how awkwardly different Casca's and Guts' CG and normal faces look during the early part of the 100 man battle, especially Casca's, seriously that was just BAD, it practically looks like two different people.

I'm going ahead and apologize in advance.  This isn't even worth getting for free or pirated.  Yes... I said it. 
Lol it doesn't look as pathetic as it sounds when you read it like that :iva:

So yeah, the really big issue to me - is not the needless cameos OR how they might have changed some details (eventhough it kinda pisses you off but anyways) OR dragged out scenes (and we saw the result with rushed scenes in the first movie *cough!*Zodd*cough!*, doesn't have to be either or but too long is better than too short I guess) - BUT all the shit they CUT. I may be stating the obvious here but when I rewatched it it almost felt like they'd cut more stuff than what they actually adapted, and occasionally to the point of almost no recognition of the original story. Tbh I day dreamed a bit and imagined myself watching a long documentary/preview thingy showing just parts of a few key moments of a much bigger project. And I realized if you look at it that way you might appreciate it more (switching that "documentary/preview thingy" with the manga of course :iva: )
Oh well, I'm done rambling now...
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Walter on December 12, 2012, 02:51:05 PM
I see two relatively positive reviews, but 2 votes for excellent, and 4 votes for good. Where are the other reviews supporting these positions?  :daiba:
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: JezzaX on December 12, 2012, 07:09:36 PM
I see two relatively positive reviews, but 2 votes for excellent, and 4 votes for good. Where are the other reviews supporting these positions?  :daiba:

I agree, I'm interested to hear those views. I'm actually somewhat envious of those who classify the film as excellent and can't see or don't care about the flaws.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Hanma_Baki on December 12, 2012, 08:08:06 PM
Not that it really matters but in case you assume I was one of the "Excellent" voters, I voted "Good" :) and yeah I would also like to see the those elaborate their feedback. But my guess is they see it like "Fuck it, its Berserk, so I'll support it 100% no matter what" that about it? :iva:
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Jackolyn on December 12, 2012, 08:22:49 PM
I agree, I'm interested to hear those views. I'm actually somewhat envious of those who classify the film as excellent and can't see or don't care about the flaws.
I am one of the two people who voted excellent, however in saying that; I am completely aware of all of the flaws that this movie has, both technically and accuracy wise. I am just as disappointed with the cuts and minor changes that they made, (especially the Bonfire of Dreams scene) however I watched this film for what it was and I loved every second of it.
Yes, the CGI and animation were weak at times, but rarely did it distract me from the story; and the same goes for the cuts made. Yes, they changed a few things, but I believe that those changes add to the cinematic quality of the film. No, its not EXACTLY like the manga, but this is not a manga; this is a movie adaption, and so changes to the fight sequences and the removal of certain scenes did not take away from the film as a whole, nor did it dampen the impact of the story line within this particular segment of the arc.
I loved the scale of this film much better than the first, (though this particular portion of this Arc is generally a lot more interesting than the first third) and I loved the cinematic direction that the film took; it looked much better than the first film by far.
My favorite thing about this film though (and this goes for the first movie as well) is how they portray and animate the characters emotion. The body language and facial expressions that's animated is truly something else. The smallest gesture of the hand, the subtle changes in expression and posture, each characters fighting style; its remarkable how accurately they captured the emotion and action from the manga to the film. (Even if the CG models are a bit flat as far as expression goes) the hand drawn characters are beautifully done.(And to add to that, the music in this film was also MUCH better. I've lost count of how many times that I've listened to the soundtrack on its own; but while watching the movie it was like I was hearing all of the songs again for the first time.)
I admit there are flaws in this movie, both on its own and especially when compared to the manga; however all in all I really did enjoy it for what it was. I thought that it was very well put together, and that its not impossible to overlook the flaws in this film when compared to the manga. I took it for what it was, and I really did love it.  :guts:
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: frankencowx on December 12, 2012, 08:34:20 PM
however I watched this film for what it was and I loved every second of it.
Why do people keep saying this? It doesn't make any sense. You are aware of what it is/was (a subpar mediocre below average adaptation), but you love it anyways? No se.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Aazealh on December 12, 2012, 08:48:45 PM
Why do people keep saying this? It doesn't make any sense. You are aware of what it is/was (a subpar mediocre below average adaptation), but you love it anyways? No se.

Yeah, I don't get it either. If you know it is flawed and are disappointed by said flaws, logic dictates you should rate it something other than "excellent", even if you had a good time. Just sayin'.

Yes, they changed a few things, but I believe that those changes add to the cinematic quality of the film. [...] No, its not EXACTLY like the manga, but this is not a manga; this is a movie adaption, and so changes to the fight sequences and the removal of certain scenes did not take away from the film as a whole, nor did it dampen the impact of the story line within this particular segment of the arc.

No offense but that sounds like BS to me.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Skullgrin140 on December 12, 2012, 09:10:40 PM
Well having now seen Golden Age Arc II I can at least share my thoughts on it.

Keeping in mind so far this film series and my thoughts towards it are as they are with the first film, I really wanted to like this film so much after at least seeing a few trailers to see what they would push on. This movie on the other hand really feels like it's trying way too hard with what it is able to do such as cramming in way too much in the limited time the film runs for, So many edits made to the story and I really feel like with the amount of character development and backstory this film decreased in horribly the film really just feels flat when it comes to the characters we already know.

Although if there are a few things that I did like in terms of things they added in this film which the TV series never had was the finale with the King of Midland torturing Griffith but at the same time not exchanging as much wordplay between each-other and having Griffith's words eventually break the King both mentally & physically. Plus the supposed sex scene between both Charlotte & Griffith is what it is so I won't say anymore.

The CGI...The CGI I feel is getting from bad to worse as these films are pushing on, it just looks so unfinished and like something pulled out of a PS2 game. On the other hand though the backgrounds for what they are are still beautifully drawn and well detailed, so art-wise the film (from a visual standpoint) has quite alot of downs with only a few ups to make it really stand out.

However as if that wasn't enough, I really feel the unnecessary cameos of Azan, Farnese, Serpico & Puck added absolutely nothing to this film whatsoever from a storytelling degree, I feel that was the films way of hinting to the audience (Keep an eye out for these characters in future movies :carcus:)

The film is trying way too hard, that's the main problem. So much cut out that was so crucial to the story and not much needed development from most of the main cast which is what this film desperately needed. I'm sticking with this trilogy to see how it ends in movie III just to see how much the mediocrity of a great story is stretched even further.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Aazealh on December 12, 2012, 09:49:35 PM
I really feel the unnecessary cameos of Azan, Farnese, Serpico & Puck added absolutely nothing to this film whatsoever from a storytelling degree

Not only did it not bring anything to the story, it actually makes no sense at all to have them there. Farnese, Serpico and Azan have absolutely no reason to be at that ball.

First off, during that time it's doubtful Farnese was even leader of the H.I.C.K. yet, since in volume 22 they mention it's been 3 years since the winter Serpico's mother burned (same year Farnese was appointed leader), and that balls takes place a year before the Occultation ceremony, after which two years elapse before we see Guts again in the Lost Children chapter.

Beyond that, when they traveled to Midland they were on a mission to find the "Falcon of Darkness" from the prophecy, so being at a ball to celebrate the victory of Midland in a war between two nations that were both under the influence of the Holy See is incongruous to say the least. As for Puck, why is he in a cage (from which he could escape just by squeezing through the bars) exactly? He was travelling with those guys of his own free will, as shown in volume 12.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: ApostleBob on December 12, 2012, 10:11:31 PM
Lots of spoilers ahead.

Okay, I just back into town and got a chance to watch Berserk: The Capture of Doldrey.  Itís a mixed bag.  I was pleasantly surprised at many parts, thought many scenes worked great, but found huge fault with fundamental aspects of it.  Having now seen the first two films, Iím convinced now that this series is made for those who are already familiar with Berserk.  Itís like a mix tape of someoneís favorite Berserk scenes that cuts out anything that might be considered dull or slow, regardless of the consequences it has on the plot.  An audience member new to berserk will need to infer a lot of character development that is just no longer present.  Even some of the plot has logical holes in it that will come off as just confusing.  Many of these things could have been solved with an additional 10 minutes of run time and chopping out some of the more indulgent sequences like the ball, the cameos, and Charlotteís sex scene.

So what about this movie worked?

The opening.  The film cuts out Griffith saying goodbye to Charlotte with the lode stone, the verbal sparring with Foss, and the army leaving Midland.  It just opens with battle.  And it works.  Guts is still reeling from the fountain speech and without all the scenes in between that and the Adon fight, it still feels fresh to us.  

While I love the scene with Foss, especially the Hawk stare ending, without him present in the first film, this makes sense as fat to cut.  I barely missed it, though it does have long term impacts that Iíll get to later.

Also Iíd go so far to say that the war itself feels more like an actual campaign then it does in the manga or anime.   I think it has to do with the proximity of events together and a few thrown in scenes of the king and his advisers moving unit positions around on maps.  As little as it is, it goes a long way when youíre watching it.  The Golden Age battles in the manga and anime have always had a disconnect from each other.  There was a randomness to them that isnít really a problem here.  So thatís good.

Cave scene is abridged but works.  The flashback for Casca is shortened, but it doesnít surprise me that they cut a 15 minute flashback from here.  It moves the story quickly and we get the essentials of Cascaís rescue by Griffith (in patented strobe flashbackÖ).

Next we have the the 100 man fight.   Itís great.  Samson isnít here, but I donít miss him at all.  With Gutís battles with Adon, Boscogn and eventually Griffith, it doesnít feel like thereís a lack of strong opponents to fight.  Personally, in this compressed time frame it might have appeared like a videogame boss fight.  The animation is great for the fight and the music really shines here.  The battle is bloody, and creatively brutal.  Much more so than the first film.  I only have two complaints here: Cascaís not involved for long in the fight and her chase is pretty un-engaging, and Guts makes a couple Super Mario jumps.  Nothing too bad, but enough to annoy.

Also a big change with the rescue: Griffith is a part of it.  This was probably done to streamline the whole bonfire of dreams cut (Casca being upset at his absence and all), but it really undermines Judeau and Cascaís character development.  

So instead of Guts getting stitched up, Judeau giving Casca elf dust, the bonfire of dreams, or Griffith returning to see Guts and Casca, we cut right to the White Tigerís unsuccessfully besieging Doldrey.   This creates a garbage truck sized hole in character development for all of our characters.  We lose foreshadowing of Guts departure, hinting at Judeauís feelings for Casca, Griffith returning from an important war council for his FRIENDS.  Important stuff.  Not to mention that the elf dust makes Guts recovery somewhat realistic.

Next, Griffith attends the Kingís Doldrey war council and it seems to be fairly faithful.  And dull.  A bunch of advisers weíve never seen before give there opinion that Doldrey is unbeatable for like five minutes and then Griffith says he can do it if the King wants him to.  If any scene could use abridgement, this could be one.

Doldrey is done well, but less memorable than the 100 man fight which felt more personal.  It hits all the right beats and even has Corkus shining at a few points.  Pippin and Rickert as well.  Judeau however gets the short end of the stick in both character development and action in the film.  He never even throws a knife in a single battle.  The battle was fairly faithful except for two exceptions: The use of Adon to sneak into the castle, and the lack of Zoddís intervention.

Casca using Adon to infiltrate the castle is a good way to link the two battles, and in a way it seems more realistic than Doldrey just leaving the gates open for them to storm.  On the other hand, wouldnít they be suspicious at Adonís sudden appearance during the battle?  Especially if his forces were known to have been defeated?  Anyway, once inside Cascaís small group opens the gate for a larger force, but Adon breaks free and challenges her.  Thereís no poison arrow, but the fight works well.   Even Adonís death is even an improvement in my opinion.  Another thing this improves is some of the goofiness of Adonís character.  Gone is the ridiculous shark armor and slap stick. He feels like a real threat and therefore his defeat at Cascaís hands has more meaning.

Cutting Zodd couldíve worked.  In the original, he seems to appear randomly and has murky motivations unless discussed at length.  More than anything it feels like Deus Ex Machina.  In my opinion the one thing Zoddís appearance really helps with is the reminder that there is a larger supernatural force out there.  In this film, that is utterly lacking.  But even though I say that cutting Zodd couldíve worked, the way they handled it did not.  Gotz catches a falling flag from a Hawk Boscogn killed and distracts him with it.  Or something.  Itís not very clear.  Then he chops off his head.  It doesnít feel like Guts is ever really in danger, and Boscognís death feels less powerful than it does in both the anime or manga.  Itís pretty disappointing.

Ah now, what about Gennon?  Well our santa clause version of him seems to have an obsession with Griffith but itís unclear if thereís an implied history between them.  No subtitles.  Other than the lack of flashback regarding Gennon and Griffith (and Casca and Griffith in the river afterward), it seems to play very faithful to the manga.  Gennon is clearly ordering Griffith to be spared, takes over command from Boscogn, and even kills an officer thatís about to ambush Griffith.  After the battle, he and Griffith have a substantial dialogue before Griffith kills him.

After the battle is an odd montage of fallen soldiers on the battle field as well as Gennonís slain slave boys.  Weird.  The horrors of war I guess.

The parade is pretty faithful.  Corkus kisses some girl, but it doesnít take much time.  

And then the fucking Ball.  My god is this ponderous and filled with long winded speeches.  The only useful thing is Guts talking to Casca which seems to be doing the same job as bonfire of dreams in the directorís mind.  The Queen is present here during the Kingís speech, but has no lines or importance.  Window dressing really.  Farnese, Serpico and Azan are present, but have no interaction with anything.  Pointless.  After the Kingís speech, instead Griffith being poisoned, everyone dances.  Griffith with Charlotte, the hawk captains with random girls, and of course Guts and Casca.  Guts seems to finially be happy.

Cut to Guts leaving.  No reason given.  Casca doesnít see him and try to stop him.  Judeau and Corkus donít talk with him at the bar.  Guts walks out of town and apparently somehow the Hawks have anticipated this and are waiting for him.  Whatever.   The scene itself seems pretty faithful.  Rickert doesnít understand why, Corkus gives a piece of his mind, and Griffith challenges him.  Casca tries to stop them but Pippen and Judeau tell her not to interfere.  Personally I think the anime did a better job.  

So Guts leaves and we have the Charlotte sex scene.  Itís pretty ridiculous and gets borderline pornographic when Griffith goes down on her.  Iím not kidding.  Griffith has his Guts flash backs and everything else goes down as in the manga.  

Then we get a prolonged cameo of Guts walking past a wagon with Puck in a cage.  Itís like a minute and a half and nothing happens except Guts looking back as if he sensed something.  Bonfire of Dreams for this?  Really?

Then we have Midlandís attack on the Hawks.   Itís faithful for the most part.  Its pretty brutal at first but then Casca and pals are riding among a torrent of arrows like thereís no problem.   Itíd be better if Casca took the arrows as she did in the Manga.

Griffithís whipping by the king works, and it looks as though Griffith does taunt him about his daughter.  The King doesnít confront his daughter.  We end the movie with the torturer fumbling the beherit into the drain.  

The biggest problem overall with the film though is the absolute lack of interaction between Gotz and Griffith.  I honestly donít think they say two words to each other.  I donít know if this was intended, but by cutting out the hill of swords recovery, and the talk they have after the assassination their relationship is weakened.  This is further problematic when you consider the stuff that was cut from the first film such as Gutsís first battle with the hawks and the *cough* bath scene.   Furthermore, aside from their relationship suffering (and it really is pivotal to make the Eclipse poignant) Griffith has very little to do in this film.  He is just there and happens to be the Hawks leader.  People notice him at the ball.  He fights Guts.  For Ö some reason.  For a new audience member, I donít feel like thereís enough connective tissue.  And thatís a major problem.  

What these movies do well is action (most of the time) and beautiful visuals.  They handle plot pretty well considering the compression they need to do.  But they have utterly sacrificed character aside from the broad strokes.  And character is so important for where this story is going.  Itís what keeps Berserk from being a mindless action manga thatís ďbadass,Ē and instead an amazing story that resonates with audiences all over.   Unfortunately this movie series is skirting pretty close at times to the former.  But not always.

Iím interested to see it with subtitles soon, and very interested to see what they do with the third film.  I enjoyed this film quite a bit, despite many misgivings.  Most of the problems it causes are down the line and because I know the story I can anticipate their impact.  But as a movie itself, the pacing is quite a bit better than the first, and I feel like we get to know Casca and Guts much more than we did before.  The action is mostly great and the parts included are largely faithful.  I wish there was more character interaction and less assumption that audiences know the story.  

Overall Iíd give it three out of five stars.

Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Jaze1618 on December 13, 2012, 12:19:19 AM
I appreciate you for writing such a detailed review.  :ubik:
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: dasfdeas on December 13, 2012, 04:04:20 AM
I really hate to say this, but I'm now at the point where I think that any chance of a good Berserk anime is squashed.  I'd be curious to know if anyone has a good idea of how this film is doing financially (although with piracy now, who knows what's a good number anyway).  There are just too many damned inconsistencies due to time constrictions and pointless ones like the ballroom scene for me to enjoy it.  I think that looking backward, I would have rather they made some one shot (one film) stories set during the Black Swordsman arc a la the Dreamcast game, or just simply animated the Black Swordsman arc.  Oh well, I'll still buy the releases if only to support the series, but it's just a bummer all around.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: puppet12ca on December 13, 2012, 06:43:48 AM
Beyond that, when they traveled to Midland they were on a mission to find the "Falcon of Darkness" from the prophecy, so being at a ball to celebrate the victory of Midland in a war between two nations that were both under the influence of the Holy See is incongruous to say the least.

Meh I thought about that and the only theory I could come up with is that Farnese was mainly there to show the Church's support for the armistice agreement public reason god favours peace and cooperation between nations, actual reason less in-fighting within the holy see means a steadier stream of cooperation taxes and/or donations to the church itself from nations under its influence.

I mean they were prompted to try and find the red lake and subsequently the fifth angel by the eclipse which has not happened yet so that's the only other reason I can think of them being there but I guess its a bit of a stretch
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: SuperVegetto on December 13, 2012, 09:20:53 AM
I really hate to say this, but I'm now at the point where I think that any chance of a good Berserk anime is squashed.  I'd be curious to know if anyone has a good idea of how this film is doing financially (although with piracy now, who knows what's a good number anyway).  There are just too many damned inconsistencies due to time constrictions and pointless ones like the ballroom scene for me to enjoy it.  I think that looking backward, I would have rather they made some one shot (one film) stories set during the Black Swordsman arc a la the Dreamcast game, or just simply animated the Black Swordsman arc.  Oh well, I'll still buy the releases if only to support the series, but it's just a bummer all around.

Not good 4977BD/1223DVD, total 6,200
But the first movie is the 19th most rented anime in Japan this year
No number for any but the 9th most rented, which sold 45,000
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Darkman on December 13, 2012, 12:25:11 PM
Hey guys, I haven't seen any discussion of this, so for those who have seen Movie 2 is skull knight in it?  The scene at the beginning of volume 9 I would think would be in it.  Otherwise they are sticking it in at the beginning of Movie 3 which I suppose could work.  To totally omit that scene is just ridiculous, that is very important foreshadowing 
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Draculoid on December 13, 2012, 01:04:39 PM
That scene has been shown in numerous previews and will definitely be in part 3. I'd say there would be slight need for concern with all their cuts and the orders of events in the manga, but with how they've been doing things they've pushed Skull Knight from the very start as a sort of "Hey guys look how accurate we are!! We have this important character who was omitted in the original here!!" and cram him into ever preview and trailer.

  The last scene with Guts in movie 2 is when he defeats Griffith, which ends volume 8. Volume 9 opens with Guts and SK followed by Griffith and Charlotte, Griffiths torture and the Hawks being attacked (the King attempting to rape Charlotte is omitted). I feel it is only logical the third movie will open with Guts and SK, which is actually a really good choice on their part. Would really set the tone of the film.

Also I really don't have much to say after seeing the film. I thought I was going to enjoy it a lot more than I did based on all of the reviews saying it was "improved" over the first. I'm still holding out hope that I will at least enjoy some of the animation in movie 3.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Aazealh on December 13, 2012, 01:14:28 PM
that's the only other reason I can think of them being there but I guess its a bit of a stretch

Yeah, quite a stretch I'd say.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Lukis on December 13, 2012, 02:59:35 PM
Finally got my copy and watched it ..and voted for So-so ..movie is pretty average and movie 1 looks even worse now compared to this one... again that CGI in so many places was a real buzz killer,they could at least draw main character faces in close up. Again raped plot and basically movie was Big fight,minor character development. I think if some one new to Berserk would watch all 3 movies,poor guy would get mind fucked real hard. When people will see movie 3 ,lord help them understand whats going on  :femto: .. Few good things were 100 man battle which was pretty awesome. Party was pretty well made too,enjoyed Farneses and Serpicos and that Dwarfs(forgot his name,so ashamed) cameos. Overall movie was like ''meh'',but I seriously hope 3rd movie will be awesome,if not im scared for rest of saga(if their foing to do it).
Puck looked really great thou  :carcus:
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Rhombaad on December 13, 2012, 07:44:44 PM
Dwarfs(forgot his name,so ashamed)

Are you talking about Azan? If so, he's not a dwarf; he's human.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Lukis on December 13, 2012, 08:02:14 PM
Are you talking about Azan? If so, he's not a dwarf; he's human.
It was meant as jk ..yeah Azan,will try to remember that ..just saw Hobbit today so all Short,beardy guys associates with dwarfs  :azan: ..
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Hanma_Baki on December 15, 2012, 12:44:19 AM
...nor did it dampen the impact of the story line within this particular segment of the arc.
Heres where I really disagree.

As for Puck, why is he in a cage (from which he could escape just by squeezing through the bars) exactly? He was travelling with those guys of his own free will...
Wow... I remeber I kinda had the same thoughts but I guess I repressed them or something, like my mind´s defense mechanism in order not to receive trauma... It did now though :judo:

...

Nice! I think you´re pretty much spot-on everything, thanks for sharing your thoughts in detail.

EDIT:

Oh yeah,
Also a big change with the rescue: Griffith is a part of it.
I was going to adress this but forgot to somehow. Anyway this is one of the parts I really think they handled well and creatively considering they cut so much else. Im not saying I prefer it like this but wouldnt´ve mind if they´d still stick with it even if they´d included the Bonfire/Judeau/Elf dust etc... Still, of course its so obvious for us old fans what a desperate attempt at giving Griffith screen time this really is :iva:
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: IncantatioN on December 15, 2012, 05:17:36 PM
Question for JezzaX, Gobolatula ... and everyone else who's reviewed the movie so far in this topic - Is the dialog between characters far off from what's in the manga? (For instance, Griffith or Guts saying something completely else on screen than what's said in that same scene in the manga).
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Lukis on December 15, 2012, 05:58:10 PM
Well from what I understand in Japanese it's mostly similiar,like Adon braging about his secret attacks being passed from generation to generation . Also Guts thinking about why he's fighting and such. So dialogs are somewht faithful to manga :iva:
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Gobolatula on December 15, 2012, 11:41:23 PM
As far as I could tell, MOSTLY. There is a lot of stuff missing, like Griffith making his post-killing comment to Gennon. And some conversations are shifted around like some of the "bonfire of dreams" conversation shows up at the ball. I'm sure Walter can go into it further on tomorrow's podcast.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Walter on December 16, 2012, 02:12:47 AM
Is the dialog between characters far off from what's in the manga? (For instance, Griffith or Guts saying something completely else on screen than what's said in that same scene in the manga).
When things are on track, it's pretty much line for line exactly like in the manga. However, sometimes they conflate different scenes or simply generate new content to suit the new scene.

A good example is Guts and Casca outside the ball--Guts hasn't yet hinted to her that he's leaving (since they excised the Bonfire of Dreams scene...), so instead, a portion of his dialogue is pulled from the scene in the manga when Casca catches up to him in the snow (another scene that was cut/merged), and Guts says that he, "can't remain buried under his dream." Unfortunately, all the relevant stuff Guts said during the bar scene is left on the cutting room floor in this adaptation. Oh well.

It seems to me that some other scenes are extended beyond their purview in the manga though. As Gobs points out, while in the movie Griffith may not say anything to Gennon after he stabs him, his dialogue before the stab appears to be extended.

Those were the only sequences I bothered to check. While I'm not a native Japanese speaker, I can read Japanese pretty well and compare it to what's written. Will have more to say on it in tomorrow's show.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Roderick on December 17, 2012, 09:44:48 AM
Okay, watched the full, uncut feature today on DVD and I'll sum up my experience.  The last 20 minutes of the film is some of the best Berserk-related animation in recent memory.  Everything before is mostly embarrassing.  It's like there were two different movies being made--one low-budget CGI feature that has no business in a movie theater and one very nice-looking hand-drawn/2-D feature that save the movie from being a waste of time.  Too bad the heavy CGI segments nearly dominate everything up to the ballroom scene.

The movie starts out alright with the Hawks battling Adon and his men, and the Guts/Casca scene at the beginning just before the 100 man fight looks as good as I would expect from a theatrical feature.  The CGI didn't look quite as awful as I remembered from the first feature with some generally good quality cel-shading, and the scenes of Guts rescuing Casca and spending those tender moments had some great animation.  With some reservations.

The dream sequence involving Casca being saved from the rapist has to be one of the most self-indulgent scenes in the whole movie.  Not content-wise (though heavily cut from the manga) but in the overly obvious "this is a dream" pretentiousness practically overshadowing what is going in the dream itself.  Thankfully, it's the only such dream sequence used in the movie.  As mentioned months ago, the flashback is cut to the bone to just show Casca's rescue.  Nothing more.

Once we get to the 100 man fight, the movie really goes down hill.  The action fails to be very engaging on Guts' front, with much of the action looking more like footage of the hack-and-slash gameplay from the Dreamcast video-game.  The carnage and near-hopelessness is his situation is pretty much lost here thanks the the overly shiny and stiff-looking armored mannequins that are suppose to represent ruthless mercenary soldiers. Add to that general lack of grit and sinew that made the manga or even TV anime adaptation so memorable and the video game comparison fits pretty well.  This isn't a knock on video-game-style graphics as by today's standards, this movie's CGI is many notches below the norm--the bloody Playstation 2 3D modelling and animation put much of this movie's attempts to shame.  This goes for Doldrey too in a somewhat lesser extent but any 3-D modelling and cel-shading of anyone outside of the main cast is just piss-poor all around  (and Boscone & Gennon .... *shudder*).

The choreography during this fight and the Doldrey fight is also pretty lacking most of the time, as it is mostly generic hack and slashing motions that often don't even try to use the manga as a guide outside of a few exceptions.  Even the most gory and visceral scenes look weak.  Also the musical accompaniment during the 100 man fight is pretty unusual.  Not terrible per say, but the acoustics don't seem all that appropriate and certainly don't help add to the tension the scene is suppose to convey.    

Casca's escape scenes were alright (minus the shitty CG) though she appears more helpless than in the manga, getting pinned down without taking out any of her captors.  Also, some additional breast grabbing was added to the mix.  Obviously to add to the 3-D theater experience  :carcus:

Then, we get to the more obvious pacing issue(s) in this movie.  After the Hawks save Guts and Casca, capture Adon(??), we get some time for the film to breath a little.  However, all that is included in the film is a few minutes of Midland's armies talking about hiring the Hawks for the capture of Doldrey and introductory footage of Gennon before the climactic battle.  No bonfire of dreams, no character development among the Hawks, not even an explanation of how Guts was ready for a deadly assault after being heavily wounded just moments ago.  Just some brief exposition to keep the action junkies happy with another battle almost right away.

Not much more to say about Doldrey outside it is an improvement if only in sheer scope and somewhat better cinematography.  The CGI scenes look like textureless footage of Total War gameplay, but an epic quality does seep in.  The background artistry far outpaces the foreground animation at times that the movie looks like a work-in-progress rough cut that was released prematurely.  The scenes of the battle are mostly faithful the the manga up to a point.  Adon is used as a hostage for some reason and frees himself to fight Casca this time around with Casca vs Adon ending with a stab through the head.  Boscone shattering Guts' helmet is far less impressive in this movie and the less said about the Zodd-less execution of Boscone the better.

One very unusual (and personally unwanted) addition was the added "cost of war" battle scene panning after Gennon gets killed.  Not only being unnecessary, it also implies that the Hawks killed all of Gennon's servants/slaves in the bathing area.  Uh, okay...

Next comes the nadir of the film--No Hulk Hogan pose done by Carcus :mozgus:  (hyperbole, sure, but it was one of my favorite moments)

As we all know, there is no Foss assassination plot in this film, and the ballroom scene is where it becomes most obvious.  Without the buildup and pay-off of the assassination, the ballroom scenes in this movie come across as needless padding that only builds up to Guts dancing with Casca and the Hawks having a good time.  Though at this point, any additional scenes with the Hawks is welcome since they don't really seem all that developed up until this point in the movie trilogy and they still come across as one-dimensional (outside of Guts, Casca, and Griffith).  I agree with earlier complaints on the ballroom dancing padding, though it's not all that long.  Though the long shots of the waltzing crowds appearing to be depicting animatronic dolls rather than people don't help any.  And the spinning.

Okay, now here's where the movie actually gets good barring one huge hang-up:  Guts immediately starts leaving the Hawks the next scene with hardly any build-up and no actual decision being made by the character prior to this point on screen.  Most of those scenes (Bonfire of dreams, Midland pub scene, etc) were cut for the sake of time constraint.  All we have to go by is the end of Movie 1 where he overhears Griffith talking to Charolette.  While it is an important catalyst for Guts' decision, Movie 2 never brings it up again (outside of the "prologue" before the opening credits) nor is Guts ever shown even toying with the idea of leaving before it happens.  Then I suppose there might be some exposition explaining why Guts is leaving as he's leaving, but it's too late and by this time is far more illogical and selfish on Guts' part than it is depicted in the manga or previous anime adaptation.

However, getting past that, the duel scene is gorgeous and superbly handled, probably the best scene in the movie.  Feature animation at its finest and great direction on one of the iconic scenes in the series.  At this point I actually start getting engrossed into the movie.

No Skullknight encounter in this film, but it may be included in the third movie, so I'm willing to overlook that for now.

What's next is the second-best sequence in the film--Griffith's surprise rendezvous with Charlotte and ensuing sex scene.  No, not because of the sex, but how well the whole scene plays out both in quality animation and direction.  Yes, Charlottes reaction the breast grope is unintentionally funny, but the sex scene itself is both artfully done and convincingly erotic.  The violin piece also adds much to the scene as the action and Griffith's emotional tensions build, ending with the haunting scene of in a fetal position on the bedside.  The cuts to the Hawks spending their last moments of freedom were also well-integrated.

The final torture scene is a well-done closing scene of the film.  While the King's attempted rape isn't shown, his true intentions on Griffith's torture and imprisonment are certainly clear in the film.  Also, its good to see a faithful adaptation of the sadistic torturer and not that blasted goat man from the TV anime.

All-in-all, I'd say it's a step down from the first feature.  The near back-to-back battles and fighting in this film take up the first hour of the movie and is handed pretty poorly to boot character development suffers a lot in this one compared to the first movie, though it's still possible to make sense out of some of the characters' actions in the film (Gennon was surprisingly well handled).  The high artistic standard of the manga cries out for a well-animated adaptation and the predominately CGI character design and animation cheapen it almost beyond recognition.  While sometimes the cel-shading is good, much of it bears no resemblance to Miura's work with the hand drawn scenes taking most of the slack.  There's violence, but there is no artistic quality to it or even comparably gruesome outside of a bizarre depiction of Boscone bathing in a shower of blood as men he decapitated soar into the heavens.  

Really, the movie only really gets its footing after the ballroom and becomes less of a chore to sit through.  Too bad it happens in the last 1/3 of the movie.  All-in-all it is a very uneven movie and not something I will watch in its entirety for a while.

For anyone who cares, I voted "So-so," and that's being very generous.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: JoeZeon on December 19, 2012, 10:26:20 AM
I personally liked the first movie, it was rushed, but all in all it was a good starter. So I was hoping that the second movie would take advantage of this and show more material. Well they succeeded, just not in the way I was hoping.

First off the 100 man fight ranks very high in my favorite scenes list and I was disappointed with how it was handled. First off the build up with Guts and Casca was poorly orchestrated. The dream sequence was an eye sore, it looked bad and was very overindulgent in the noble wailing a way at Casca. But most importantly, Casca doesn't tell this to Guts. It was a big deal in the manga and anime that Casca was willing to share her past with someone who up until that point she disliked. Not only that, but it further strengthens the bond that they'll come to form later down the road. In addition we get zero back story with Griffith, which again pays dividends down the road. The fight itself had its moments when I was very bought in, but it quickly followed up by disappointing me with bad animation. I didn't feel that tension and awe that I felt with the manga or the anime. We're supposed to be impressed with Guts being able to slay 100 men by himself with an arrow in his hand. Also they didn't do enough to emphasize that Guts was doing his best to protect Casca from harm, another nugget that pays off down the road. Having Adon captured and Griffith present I did think was a good idea to move the story along though.

Here I would move on to the Doldrey battle, but something is missing...I can't quite remember what... o yeah THE BONFIRE OF DREAMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is what absolutely killed the movie IMO. The Bonfire scene wraps so many threads together, Casca's changing relationship with Guts, more development of Judeau's character, Guts opening up to Casca in response to her doing the same etc. But most importantly it shows Guts considering if he'll leave the Hawks. This scene, above all others, should not have been cut. The story line takes a serious hit by not including this scene.

The Doldrey battle was too damn long. Bascone was not set up well at all and Gennon felt like an add on. On a side note, Griffith mentioned in the podcast how having Gennon's hair changed from black to white took away from his creepyness and overall power as a villain. The scene that was supposed to insinuate that he was a pedophile didn't hack it. I thought they made Gennon look like they pulled Santa Claus out of the nursing home. The duel with Bascone was devoid of any of the tension that made the manga or anime great. I really felt like Guts was done for before Zodd intervened. Instead we get Guts chucking a flag at Bascone and that's our substitute? Really? Guts sword doesn't even break!!!!!
Of course Zodd being cut pissed me off, but I could've dealt with it easier had they included more character development and a better ending for the duel. 

The ball scene I actually liked, Guts and Casca dancing gave me a big ol' smile. But the ball scene is useless without the Queens plot in the background and the assassination of the conspirators that followed. In the end it was just eye candy and fan service.

Guts leaving without being stopped by Casca or going to the tavern with Judeau and Corkus, was another huge blow to the movie. It was almost on par with the B.O.D being cut. By the time I got to the duel I almost turned it off. Unfortunately here is where the film really does its homework and make s a worth while attempt at adapting Berserk. The duel, Griffith having sex with Charlotte, the Hawks being betrayed and the torture room scenes all flow perfectly into one another. But it comes to late to save this movie.

I tried my best to give this movie an unbiased viewing, as it contains many of my favorite scenes not just from the Golden Age but for the whole series. But at the end of the day I was left unsatisfied and just generally uneven about the film. I felt like they spent to much time on the battle's and not nearly enough time on character development. I still have hopes that the third movie will right the ship and end the Golden Age on a good note. (Much in the way Episode 3 did for the Star Wars prequels) But my expectations have been tempered. Until then I'll being waiting for the next episode to arrive.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: enjoy on December 20, 2012, 09:58:48 AM
In my opinion the movie , just like the first one , was rushed and important parts were ommitted. I don`t know what Studio 4C was doing but at the beginning of the movie the first battle looked like some cheap CGI cutscene from a video game... It`s really sad that they couldnít bring out the character development and storytelling that the manga offers.  I think the series suffers from a very short release schedule for all of the three movies.
The Hellsing Ultimate OVAs were released consecutively  from 2006 to 2008. Then there was a long break and in 2012 they continued with the release of the OVAs. The final product did not feel rushed and was engaging and interesting to watch. The same thing can be said about the Evangelion Movies -the first one was relased 2007, the second 2009 and the third is scheduled for 2013. I`m not familiar as of why the OVAs and movies were delayed that much ( financial issues?) but when they finally got released they were really good.  It`s really painful to watch the Berserk trilogy because there are some moments which are very well executed but for the most part the movies are a let down. So much for the faithful adaptation we were promised ( no Bonfire of Dreams, no assassination plot , no Zodd ).

Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: mazinken on December 20, 2012, 02:32:04 PM
In my opinion the movie , just like the first one , was rushed and important parts were ommitted. I don`t know what Studio 4C was doing but at the beginning of the movie the first battle looked like some cheap CGI cutscene from a video game... It`s really sad that they couldnít bring out the character development and storytelling that the manga offers.  I think the series suffers from a very short release schedule for all of the three movies.
The Hellsing Ultimate OVAs were released consecutively  from 2006 to 2008. Then there was a long break and in 2012 they continued with the release of the OVAs. The final product did not feel rushed and was engaging and interesting to watch. The same thing can be said about the Evangelion Movies -the first one was relased 2007, the second 2009 and the third is scheduled for 2013. I`m not familiar as of why the OVAs and movies were delayed that much ( financial issues?) but when they finally got released they were really good.  It`s really painful to watch the Berserk trilogy because there are some moments which are very well executed but for the most part the movies are a let down. So much for the faithful adaptation we were promised ( no Bonfire of Dreams, no assassination plot , no Zodd ).



Well I did not see any of the movies but remember they wanted to do only one movie before deciding to go with three so of course this whole adaption doesn't make any sense.

I own the old TV series and the 2 video games but for the first time I really don't care about a berserk adaption I will wait and see others feedback on the third movie.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: SuperVegetto on December 22, 2012, 02:26:20 PM
Wow, I actually found this movie much better than the first one and not as bad as I expected it out to be.
It would've been much better if they didn't make all the cuts and changes, but still I felt some of the emotions I had when I read the manga, they kept some soul of Berserk, and despite all the CGI rant I found the animation/art beautiful and the music although lacked the awesome tracks the old anime ost had it was pretty decent
I realize they did a lot of things wrong, but I feel that it's good and am rating it as such. Would've been better if they made it excellent ( by following the manga more closely ) though
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Kavaron on December 23, 2012, 03:23:33 PM
1st movie I voted GOOD and 2nd EXCELLENT. I really liked all the scenes and the best one was by far the Griffith's intrusion to the palace with 2nd best the duel between Griffith and Guts and 3rd the Boscone Swing which killed many hawks instantly! Unlike the 1st movie this one gave me the goosebumps many times. Really can't wait for the 3rd one and I can't wait to see the torturer getting stabbed by Guts!

Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: jackalj on December 23, 2012, 06:38:10 PM
Yeah the third movie is the one i really want to see, not only how the CGI turns out. But especially to see The eclipse, Griffith's breakout and where it ends... And if they continue it of course :P
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: SeedofKings on December 23, 2012, 06:58:15 PM
Umm...maybe after all the movies are released we can splice in footage from the TV series and create Besrerk Golden Age Recut?  :rakshas:
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Hanma_Baki on December 24, 2012, 03:01:26 AM
^We´d still have to include some (well, quite a lot actually) material from the manga to make it completely...complete. That´d be kinda fun though, would be a nice treat for unfamiliars :iva:

EDIT: oh yeah, theres some complaints about the music, I dont even remember it for the most part, except the acoustic version of "Blood and guts" from the first film, it plays during the last part of the 100 man battle when he goes berserk....and dude...am I the only one who LOVED it? Also theres a more subtle version playing to the end credits, loved that one too. I think it fits perfectly. The music is one thing Im actually fully satisfied with about this project.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: SuperVegetto on December 24, 2012, 10:26:01 AM
^Weīd still have to include some (well, quite a lot actually) material from the manga to make it completely...complete. Thatīd be kinda fun though, would be a nice treat for unfamiliars :iva:

EDIT: oh yeah, theres some complaints about the music, I dont even remember it for the most part, except the acoustic version of "Blood and guts" from the first film, it plays during the last part of the 100 man battle when he goes berserk....and dude...am I the only one who LOVED it? Also theres a more subtle version playing to the end credits, loved that one too. I think it fits perfectly. The music is one thing Im actually fully satisfied with about this project.

My Brother that played during the battle for Doldrey made the scene really epic, and Son Cauchemar is a really good OST too
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Surakemastura on December 27, 2012, 10:29:24 AM
It was pretty awful, if it were anything other than Berserk I would have turned it off halfway. I really don't have anything more to say that has already been posted. Voted for Poor though, since it could have been much worse I guess. At this point the only thing to look forward to is to see how studio 4C will animate the Eclipse.

But hey, by the time movie 3 is done there will be tons of good AMV material to accompany Nomad's music, :cough: Griffith.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Gill on December 27, 2012, 04:36:13 PM
I think it wasn't that bad, I expected much worse stuff after the first movie... I voted So-so.

There were actually quite a few small details that I really liked.
One of them is the improve in CG, it worked really well during fight scenes, although it looked a bit awkward in the ballroom dance scene, but I wouldn't say it was bad. They managed to create a nice live-action movie feeling by being able to move the "camera" in 3D, and I liked it.
The 100-man fight was awesome.
I also liked the ballroom scene. I missed the assassination plot, but still, I felt like it works, it didn't seem as off to me as many of you said.


Of course, there were more bad stuff than good...

Besides the obvious ones that were already mentioned, like the bonfire of dreams, or the cameos on the ball, what I missed the most was Casca being poisoned while fighting Adon. I think Miura poisoned her to give some comparison for the male readers about how bad those "woman problems" were, because it was said that that poison makes most men unable to fight, but the fact that she still defeated Adon easily while being poisoned shows that having a period is far worse, so she wasn't weak for not being able to fight previously. So the absence of poisoning weakened her character in my opinion. Plus, this lead to the absence of Guts helping her to walk away after the fight, which has bad effects on the character development.

Another small thing was that she did some really weird loop and then standing up on her hands when escaping from Adon's soldiers who tried to rape her... It looked weird, it was unnecessary, her boobs looked like balloons, and I doubt she would be able to do something like that as 2 seconds ago she was so exhausted she could barely move her arms...
But at least when the Hawks returned she was given some bandages and could cover her breasts, which shows that they care for her enough to not let her run around half-naked, while in the manga she had to stay in the torn shirt... Though I guess it could be because her shirt was almost torn off, while in the manga there was just a hole on it.

Also, in the scene when the crowd is celebrating their return, I saw someone crossing himself... I'm not sure, but this symbol doesn't exist in the Berserk world, right? They have the bird shape instead of the cross...
Oh, and Charlotte's voice :magni: I find it really disturbing, but I guess I'm the only one...

But overall, it wasn't a bad movie, I think. It was just somehow flat, because of all the cuts... But at least it looked good, unlike the first one. So I'm kinda excited about the third part now, because if they continue the improvement, it can end up quite awesome :serpico:
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Edi on December 29, 2012, 05:05:53 PM
Haven't been too observant of the music up to this point, and I know its the same song as in the first movie but that acoustic version really set the tone. I'm def gonna get the entire OST just from hearing that piece.
Performed by the Warsaw Philharmonic Symphony Orchestra in Poland.  :carcus: :ubik:
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: DirectDK on December 29, 2012, 11:11:39 PM
I finally watched it, with the subs, on my 1080p hdtv home theater setup with 5.1... and I LOVED IT.

The action sequences were spectacular.  Fluid, brutal, bloody.  The 100 man fight was killer.  The battle for Doldrey was awesome.  Pippin's scream was hilarious and made me smile!  Yes, as established, Zodd wasn't present, and the battle with Boscone changed.  Of course, I wished they had kept that part in, but the battle was still a great watch.  The final duel between Guts and Griff was really well done and edited.  The love scene (I guess this counts as an "action sequence" haha), was pretty damn intense too, and of course, the torturing scene was a great finish.

I'm also pleased to say, the music was fantastic.  Eons better than the music from the first movie.  Watching this whole movie, I never once thought of Susumu... and that is quite telling.  The first movie, I kept longing to hear some of his music, but this one... the music fit right in.  Props to the composer, editors, and orchestra on this one.  I was very pleased!

The CGI is also much improved.  I didn't even think about it.  I think the only time I really noticed it was when Casca falls down to the river.  Aside from that scene, it was pretty much a non-issue.

Pacing was much better than the first movie.  I even enjoyed the ballroom scene.  The Guts/Casca chemistry felt right.  They took some liberties of course, but all in all, it joyed me to see the Hawks dancing and just having a good time... a taste of nobility.  The only pacing thing I didn't like was that it jumped from the ballroom scene to Guts already out on the fields leaving.  I would have liked to have seen Guts talk with Judo and so forth before hand.  Also, of course, the Bonfire of Dreams.  I guess maybe because I already have it in my head, I didn't realize it was really missing from the movie.

Speaking of Judo and the likes... I think the rest of the crew had a few quick bits of familiarity.  To newcomers, they probably wouldn't have been able to learn much about the rest of the Hawks from the first movie, but in this one, I felt their personalities shown through more.  Mainly, Corkus, Rickert, and Pippin.  Judo is the only one that is still lacking.  I hope they do a good job with him in the 3rd movie cuz his death... man, is always a heartbreaker for me.

So yeah, I definitely voted "Excellent", and I know I'm in the minority here, but I stand by it!

Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: SeedofKings on December 30, 2012, 03:53:27 AM
Wow, you're words give me some hope DirectDK, the first film left me more then a little cold. It felt like one big 76 minute (and why the heck only have that long a running time anyway?) preview, so I hope there is something akin to actual pacing in the second movie. Are you sure the CG was improved? Or have your eyes somehow adjusted. because it was eye popping (and oh so frustrating!) in the first one.

Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: SamNeillium on December 30, 2012, 05:20:35 AM
I personally thought the CG was worse. Well maybe not the CG itself, but the way it was used. The use of it during the battle scenes was fine for the most part, but they used it for close-ups of people's faces and dialogue scenes more than they should have this time around.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Walter on December 30, 2012, 05:42:53 AM
Even if you've already listened to Episode 26 of the SkullKast (http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=13725.0), where we talk about our feelings of Movie 2, I wrote down my thoughts in a more cohesive review here.

I rated it as poor, which I feel is pretty generous. I rate it higher than embarrassing mostly because there are some notable improvements to the structure and storytelling since Movie 1. That's not saying much, since I thought the first movie was nearly unwatchable. The pacing and cohesion from scene to scene may have been improved, but characters are robbed of crucial development opportunities, and end up skulking about on screen like puppets.  When the Eclipse rolls around, all these bad checks they're writing off as character development are going to catch up to them, and I can only imagine it's going to sound like a wet fart cut loose in the middle of an exam.

I advise everyone watching to turn your brain completely off, not considering the reasoning for changes made. Start down that path and it all unravels (Ex. Gennon: Master Counter-Assassin, and his merry band of cheerfully molested children). One would hope that the staff asked themselves if such changes add or detract from the overall experience. But  most of the time, I simply can't rationalize the decisions being made, and it seems to me that the people designing these scenarios are tone deaf when it comes to Berserk and its characters. They're merely following a check list of scenes, not considering the overall picture.

Despite the overall mess made here, there are a few highlights worth mentioning.

From the planning scene to the victory fanfare, Doldrey was the highlight for me, and it's clear the staff gave it the most attention to detail. I was surprised to see that from the choppy mess of the other scenes in the movie, throughout Doldrey they're able to achieve a sense of atmosphere. We see some cinematic techniques like focus shifting and snappy editing that help foster a sense of big-screen drama. The gravel rumbling as the Purple Rhino Knights charge--that's cool. The slow zoom in to the King's face, locking eyes with Griffith, while the riffraff around them balk at the audacious plan--dramatic, effective and smartly done. It's a small, but rare example of the movie properly accentuating the content of the scene in a cinematic way. The soundtrack also sounds good, thumping the pacing along right up until you start listening to the lyrics ("MY BROTHER, COME JOIN ME, IN BATTLE WE WILL SLAUGHTER." What? Who's talking here? Is it Adon to Samson? No wait, he didn't make it into this movie). But your brain is supposed to be off, so that shouldn't bother you.

The weight of the attacks during Guts and Boscone's duel come across well, but of course any sense of realism is marred by the ridiculous wind-up attack Boscone pulls off, and of course the flag-tossing climax was just stupid and needlessly makes Guts look like a less competent fighter.

Overall the animation seems more fluid, but it's not necessarily better or more realistic. It actually made things worse, by drawing attention to itself, creating an effect of an uncanny valley. I think the fault here isn't the fact that CG is implemented, which I think gets unduly criticized, but the techniques being used to animate the character models. It's simply not lifelike. For example, in one of the first action sequences, Casca dodges an attack with a backflip, but her movements are stilted and her weight doesn't distribute realistically at all. It reminds me of when, as a kid, I'd use my fingers to manipulate GIJoes, making them do flips and such. In fact, Studio4C should hire me, because I have some neat ideas for them in this department, especially if we could license Snake Eyes for Lost Children.

What bothered me the most in this adaptation, aside from the trimming of critical scenes like the Bonfire of Dreams, was a little change they made to Guts' motivations during the 100-man fight. Originally, he's fighting for survival, driven by instinct.  It's one of the first times he acknowledges the fascination he has with combat, which is among the things that sets him on the path to find his own dream. Pretty important stuff. Instead, in this adaptation, he's angstily hacking away at soldiers while sulking over Griffith's stairway speech. This felt completely unbelievable, and untrue to Guts character. Truly an embarrassment to watch for any Berserk fan.

The ball scene is needlessly long, given the amount of action being cut from the source material. Instead of an assassination plot that ends with the queen roasting while Griffith looks on impassively, we're given a renaissance fair dance routine where everyone swings their arms happily into the night. Wait, wait, my brain is off... I should be enjoying this, right? Nope, this still doesn't sit right with me. What the fuck were they thinking? Halfway through that stomach turning dance sequence, the king gives a look, mirroring my own: "Can you fucking believe this shit?"

Much creedence was given by some reviewers to the editing during the final sequence, which splices together Griffith's seduction of Charlotte, a bar scene where Casca seems to smell the sex they're having, and Griffith's subsequent torture at the hands of the king. But somewhere around the time of the penis insertion, I was already checked out. The exaggeration of this scene for purely titillating purposes was simply gross. I honestly am dreading what they're going to do with the Eclipse. Like Charlotte sobbing in Griffith's arms before he twists her nipple, will Casca's rape also be serenaded by a tender love theme before they get down to the action?

While we're talking about uncomfortable things, I'd like to end this review by pointing out that while Zodd got a total of 5 minutes of screen time in the last movie, the entire seduction sequence lasts 7 minutes. In the manga, it's conveyed over the course of 16 pages. Just something to think about when considering this movie's priorities :void:
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Griffith on December 31, 2012, 07:08:48 AM
I finally watched it, with the subs, on my 1080p hdtv home theater setup with 5.1

 :guts:
Anyway, that was a nicely done review, you almost had me convinced and I HATED this movie. =) Still, while it was cool to have the movie appreciated from a different perspective with more emphasis on craft, I did feel like you were basically omitting the negative with a couple of exceptions, most prominently this:

The only pacing thing I didn't like was that it jumped from the ballroom scene to Guts already out on the fields leaving.  I would have liked to have seen Guts talk with Judo and so forth before hand.

Completely agree! It was a very strange and sudden shift in tone from the big dance number to Guts randomly walking in the snow without preface. Then there's this curious statement:

Also, of course, the Bonfire of Dreams.  I guess maybe because I already have it in my head, I didn't realize it was really missing from the movie.

C'mon, you sound like you're suffering from cognitive dissonance. The movie can't be "excellent" if you have to ignore or hurry past such things (Zodd). It's like the wrongs are so egregious they can't even be mentioned, let alone rationalized; it must be ignored, never spoken like a forbidden word that will summon evil. It's the ultimate negative review, literally in contrast to the only nice things one could say of it besides nothing at all. The words you can't say reveal everything! Your silence SCREAMS! JOIN ME, UNLEASH YOUR EVIL, ONLY YOUR HATRED CAN SATISFY ME! :femto:

While we're talking about uncomfortable things, I'd like to end this review by pointing out that while Zodd got a total of 5 minutes of screen time in the last movie, the entire seduction sequence lasts 7 minutes. In the manga, it's conveyed over the course of 16 pages. Just something to think about when considering this movie's priorities :void:

Excellent (http://www.skullknight.net/forum/Themes/testtheme1/images/post/thumbup.gif)
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Hanma_Baki on December 31, 2012, 08:37:40 AM
You have a way with words, Walt :ganishka: despite the fact that I should be depressed as hell after your bashing of the movie, its actually quite a fun read, and for the record, I agree with pretty much all that nerd rage. Thanks for sharing, as I've yet to listen to that podcast 26.

That being said, I can sort of appreciate the somewhat more positive tone in DK's review too, and lol at the Darth Vader reference :iva:
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Gill on December 31, 2012, 10:42:09 AM
Instead, in this adaptation, he's angstily hacking away at soldiers while sulking over Griffith's stairway speech.
I think they tried to fix the development of their relationship by this, because they've cut out the assassination plot, so Guts didn't have enough time to think about Griffith and their "friendship". To be honest, I didn't notice this because I rather focused on the animation (probably my brain's technique to protect me from the painful reality :ganishka: )

As for the Boscone fight... I think they tried to use the flag as some kind of metaphore. Guts stared at the flag during the fight a lot, probably thinking about his role in the Hawks and stuff, and when he used it to win the fight, it tried to express that this is his last bit success with the Band, before the flag falls on the ground, covered in dust, just like the Hawks will fall after Guts "throws them away" like the flag? I don't know, this is my interpretation, I think they tried to fix their own mistakes with this, but just ended up creating even more :troll:
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Aazealh on January 02, 2013, 09:45:16 PM
Well, it seems a lot of people have posted their reviews by now. When we did the podcast on the movie (http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=13725.0) I figured I'd post my own soon afterwards, but in truth there wasn't much incentive for me to do so. I remember how I cringed when I watched the first film, how I paused it to groan and moan a few times. I really hoped it wouldn't be bad, hoped beyond reason, and so I was really disappointed. With this one things were very different. I'm not one to deny the truth when it stares me in the face, so I just didn't care, since I'd already written off the project as a failure. I watched it completely dispassionately, and when I paused it was only to take notes for the podcast. I didn't feel like putting the effort into writing a review.

But... when I read posts in this thread, all I see is people trying to be nice, doing their best to find things they liked, things that weren't so bad, etc. That is, when they're not minimizing the bad parts or even saying there are ameliorations to the source material. That made me think that maybe uncle Aaz had to tell it like it is after all. And so here are my observations. Not a review per se, just the comments I made to myself as I watched the movie. Enjoy.



I. CAVE STORY

(http://aazealh.net/Divers/Anime/Movie2/Adon-Horse.jpg)
The movie opens up with Guts slaughtering enemies. He's thinking back about what Griffith said on the stairwell. In the manga he does so while they march, right after leaving Wyndham, when it was still fresh. Here they moved it to the battle to gain time, but in doing so they changed Guts' personality, as if it was such a big deal that it'd be on his mind even during a battle, angering him and all (whereas he seems saddened by it in the manga). It's not too problematic here, but becomes so a little later. Moving on for now.

We see a shot of the king and Raban discussing the battle. That's not in the manga, and seems to give Raban more importance than he had originally. We also see that they've changed Midland's flag, but I'll get to that later. Cut to the captains of the BotF fighting. Casca removes her helmet after having trouble with some enemy, instead of it getting knocked off by Adon. A pretty stupid move considering her helmet had just saved her life. Then Adon comes in. Somehow he looks a lot goofier than in the manga, though I don't think they intended it that way. Might be his voice or the 3D model, but I think it's a little bit of everything, his looks, his laugh when offering to take her captive, and the general lack of intensity of that scene as well.

(http://aazealh.net/Divers/Anime/Movie2/Guts-arm.jpg)
Anyway, as Adon is about to dispatch her, Guts arrives to save the day. Supercharges his biceps ŗ la Chris Redfield to repel his attack, then beats him down. Casca faints and falls, and Guts catches her, but by her cloak, not her arm. A useless change that made me think about how in episode 287 Guts remembers all the times he caught Casca like by the arm that, and how now he can't anymore. Good job there guys! Similarly, Guts catches her with his right arm instead of the left one, so that's two ways in which the scene doesn't work anymore. Not to mention that Guts is right-handed and always hold with sword with that hand.

When they fall, in the manga the battle is shown to continue, not here. It's a loss of perspective on the reality of battle that would have taken nothing to implement. After getting out of the water, Guts throws his helmet away and yells instead of removing it normally and being exhausted. Then he doesn't reanimate Casca who's unconscious even though he throws up water himself. Not very logical.

Griffith's expression is lacking upon hearing what happened to Guts & Casca. He just looks pensive even when the dipshits are making fun of them. Guts' motion is a bit weird when taking care of Casca in the cave. His embarrassment at having to unclothe her and his reaction to her condition are lacking as well compared to the manga, despite the movie mirroring the scenes relatively closely. We see some footage of him cooling her fever, the rain outside, her sleeping that's nicely animated.

(http://aazealh.net/Divers/Anime/Movie2/Casca.jpg)
Then comes the flashback sequence, in the form of a dream. It's shortened so that it doesn't shed light on how Casca got in that situation. She's just shown jumping out of a guy's carriage and then said guy is trying to rape her. Makes sense! Griffith instead of slashing the guy's ear off and then throwing his sword to Casca so that she can protect herself, throws it like a javelin to cut the guy's ear from a distance. It's a pretty big change in his portrayal. She also doesn't tell her story to Guts, a pretty drastic change that's completely unnecessary. It's a break in the narrative continuity of her life story and her resentment when Guts came into the picture. No mention of Gennon, no character development for anyone, be it her, Griffith or Guts. The scene is there, but it's been emptied of its substance. The depth has been removed. There's gratuitous violence in the form of Casca getting punched in the face by the noble though. Great addition (I am being sarcastic)! It would have been a lot better to cut her already short dream sequence in the manga out and still have her tell her story to Guts. The point was never only to tell it to the reader. It's hard to overstate how great of a loss this segment is.

Casca's reaction when waking up doesn't make much sense because she rapidly seems fully awake instead and no focus is put on her face when she realizes her situation. Casca had lost her sword in the river when fighting Adon, before falling down. But miraculously she's found it again in the cave! And is throwing it like a knife with enough strength to bury it deep in a tree trunk, despite her condition. Ridiculous. And then her combativity against Guts is removed, no fight between them, she just falls exhausted right after crying. That weakens her character. The guitar playing during their talk isn't too bad.

II. THE NON-FIRE OF DREAMS

The dialogue when they're walking in the forest is changed. Guts' tough talk to get her to keep going is gone. The ambush is changed, too. No surprise attack, Guts just detects the guys instead of saving Casca's life. Less cool, less character development, less everything. Now for the hundred man fight. Well it's changed of course, for example Guts & Casca fighting back to back is pretty much gone. All that subtle characterization removed. Casca's fighting prowess is dramatically lessened as well. And Samsong is not featured. One less strong adversary, who was meaningful because Casca couldn't dodge his attacks and so Guts had to protect her (and it damaged his sword, paving the way for it breaking later on). It was also then that Guts originally created a diversion so she could leave, which she refused to do because he wouldn't leave him behind. It had a lot more tension and dare I say awesomeness than him just telling her to leave right away. All that character development, gone (getting used to it yet?). Most of what he told her in the manga is either gone, changed or made meaningless because other parts are missing.

(http://aazealh.net/Divers/Anime/Movie2/Super-Guts.jpg)
Guts does superhuman jumps during that battle. He also jumps down some huge rock, almost a cliff, no idea why. The enemies are supposed to have the higher ground, with Guts and Casca surrounded. That change in the terrain doesn't make sense. There are crossbowmen down there too, which makes the whole thing even more ridiculous since they'd have no line of sight. What were they doing there before Guts jumped down? Also, the way Guts blocks the arrow aimed at his face makes it look like he's catching it like Silat does in Shet. Only it's through his hand. Could have been done better. The sword-baseball thingie is as ridiculous as it ever was. These are the same guys who hired a sword-fighting expert for the first movie? What's the point when Guts' real move in the manga was already pretty cool? Oh, that's right, in the manga he lunges up to strike a crossbowman that's got the high ground, because that's how things are supposed to be done, especially when ambushing someone.

Meanwhile, Casca's escape is shortened and she's made weaker again, doesn't fight on for nearly as long and doesn't fall down due to exhausion either but is caught by a thrown contraption. She's not nearly as combative as in the manga. And the guy starts visibly molesting her too. Then she tries to flee after stabbing him in the face instead of going for a fight, but still fails. Way to make her as lame as possible. Guts uses a corpse as an arrow-shield, holding it with the tip of his sword with a single arm. Ridiculous.

(http://aazealh.net/Divers/Anime/Movie2/Et-tu-Griffith.jpg)
And then, wow. Griffith present in the rescue party. What a betrayal of the story and of his character. Inadmissible. And it's for no reason either. It adds absolutely nothing. Cut to Guts who's again thinking back to the staircase speech. Now this time it really doesn't make sense. It actually goes completely against what he thinks in the manga, why he's fighting, how all thought goes away, etc. Here they mix that train of thought together with the reminiscence of Griffith's words in a way that changes the scene's meaning. It's a terrible change to his character from the badass, down to earth guy he's supposed to be. He's also supposed to be getting more tired, but we see him outright stumbling about, only then he thinks of what Griffith said and suddenly he's all super pissed off and mowing all the enemies down. Not realistic, not how it should be. The grueling aspect of the battle, how straining it is, that's completely gone.

Adon is thrown down on the ground by fleeing mercenaries and knocked unconscious. That's obvious a cheap trick so that he can be captured, but Adon is supposed to be of a very large stature, towering over the average man, so it's hard to believe something like that could happen.

The fight ends, cut to the Falcons running back to Guts. Griffith's presence is completely incongruous. He just runs there, happy to follow Casca and to not do anything, though they have him call up "Guts" a couple times just to give him something to do, lengthening the time it takes for Casca to spot him in the process. Then he stands back like a reskinned soldier001.3ds as she exaggeratingly shakes Guts for a while until his head drops like he's dead, sparking surprisingly mild reactions from everyone. Then he wakes up and the reactions are equally mild. What they did with Griffith here is downright gross to be honest. It's a travesty.

Then they capture Adon, who's stayed unconscious for god knows how long himself and who they've spotted specifically among all the dead. Now isn't that convenient! No return to the camp, no Bonfire of Dreams. Is it even necessary for me to state how tragic that omission is? Probably, actually, since some people have apparently not been particularly bothered by it. But being such an iconic scene, I feel that any self-respecting fan should already know. It's one of the cornerstones of Guts and Casca's character development. Just like the events at the camp and all the other stuff they omitted (both before and after that point) represent a huge amount of background information, references, development for everybody involved and more. They try to palliate by sprinkling stuff over other scenes (Guts in the cave: "ah, so your dream is to be Griffith's sword!"; then Casca: "what's your dream, Guts?" Guts: "Oh I don't know, I'll think about it while I fight these hundred guys!"), but to no avail. They've killed the characters' personalities and their relationships. Made them into empty shells, crude imitations of themselves. I find it pretty sad that anybody, no matter how much a philistine, could pretend for a second that any version of Berserk, no matter the medium, could be viable in such a state. But I digress, for we are unfortunately just getting started.

III. RETURN OF GENNON

(http://aazealh.net/Divers/Anime/Movie2/Blob-General.jpg)
We go directly to Doldrey being besieged. The siege warfare is quite neat, though I wonder where they found an ox in that desolate landscape. The commander of the White Tiger army was transformed from his manga self into a blob-like humanoid (but then again, most 3D models share similar facial non-features so I'm not sure why he stands out). He's also apparently standing in front of the gates, barely out of arrow range, and gets killed like an idiot. Great. Oh and Doldrey is shown to have a moat. Why not, I guess, but I wish they'd spent more time on other things.

Raban replaces another guy at the war council, making him once again more prominent than he is in the manga. The war council feels like it drags on a bit, the juice having been taken from it. It does not focus on Griffith's bet nearly as much, with generals even almost arguing with the king like in the manga. No commentary is provided on the political situation and the reaction to it either.

(http://aazealh.net/Divers/Anime/Movie2/Gennon.jpg)
Gennon's room in Doldrey is downright ridiculous. A spa? Really? And the boys drinking and kissing each other? Not really the ambiance that's supposed to be reigning... Also, a Griffith look-alike? Pfff. Great way to make up for not giving Griffith/Gennon any backstory. That'll do the trick! Changing Gennon's hair color is a puzzling move as well. Harmless but equally unnecessary. Was it just for the sake of changing something, anything? As for making him more effeminate, again was that at all necessary? Oh what an evil homo this guy is, look how girly he is. As opposed to, you know, him being a depraved pedophile.

The dialogue before Doldrey is changed so that the Falcon's lieutenants are finally showcased a bit, but it brings nothing to the table. All the original talk, conveying the tension before the battle, the problem that Gennon being there might pose to Griffith (and Guts not believing Griffith could ever be thrown off like that when seeing his behavior, which foreshadows his belief that Griffith would easily get over his departure), and even Guts' little show off move with the dust, showing he was in good shape, are gone.

Now we get to the infiltration, and it doesn't make much sense. In the manga, Casca and her group used the dust to sneak in close after all of the soldiers had been lured away by the main army. The omnipresent dust was the unique attribute of Doldrey that Griffith thought to use to his advantage, with a plan so daring that the enemy wouldn't even think of it. During such a battle, the gates wouldn't be closed since the enemy would have had no way of passing through and would have normally just not attempted anything of the sort, and the allies needing to retreat/reinforcements needing to come out shouldn't have to wait for them to open. Also, in the movie the infiltrators actually go in there before the battle even begins. So Adon, who never came back from the previous battle, suddenly arrives in Doldrey by foot with 9 soldiers and they open the gate for him. And Boscone doesn't notice? No one questions it at all? That's pretty hard to believe.

We get a view of the battlefield from above that shows horses moving way too fast, like racing cars. The horses are also not depicted realistically, with the hooves being too big and all. I'd joke about them all riding Percherons, but it's beyond just being big horses.

(http://aazealh.net/Divers/Anime/Movie2/Gennon-flag.jpg)
The battle lasts long before Boscone enters the fray, which is both relatively boring but more importantly also pictures him differently than he is in the manga. Not in midst of battle and at the forefront of his charging men. And so he also doesn't get to have an early clash with Guts, and the BotF's maneuver to incite them to follow is made a lot less effective. Instead of a somewhat clever bait that Boscone is shown to be too canny to fall for, it's a futile move, the effectiveness of which is not highlighted at all (specifically the prowess of the raiding team).

By the way, Gennon's lobster coat of arms has been transformed into... Uhh some weird thing. Anyhow, bagpipe starts playing while Gennon tells Boscone he has to pursue... A pretty weird choice. Meanwhile, Boscone hatches a plan with the eyepatch dude. Another great addition, very useful (I am being sarcastic)!

Carcus crosses himself as the enemy troops come at them. Now come on, why put that kind of stuff in when Miura's always purposedly avoided it? The battle goes on, and then it cuts to Charlotte praying in front of a Falcon altar. Neat background, but this scene makes her appear devout whereas her original characterization was different, more romantic and girlish (giving Griffith a token to remember her she'd inherited from her mother, later telling him she had nightmares every night, etc.).

IV. FALLING DOWN

The following battle scenes aren't bad at all. Then Guts introduces himself to Boscone, which feels inappropriate. In the manga Boscone knew who he was because he'd killed a hundred men in battle, and neither of them wasted any time saying hello to the other. They stared, then they swung. That was enough. The depiction of their fighting is alright, but the manga's is a lot more punchy overall, with Guts charging at Boscone for example instead of them just standing there hitting at each other.

(http://aazealh.net/Divers/Anime/Movie2/Boscone.jpg)
Next we see riders charging through the gate, and the infiltrators dispatching the guards just in time. The timing makes you wonder if charging directly without any inside help wouldn't have been enough, especially since only 2 guys are actually intervening, while Casca and the rest still accompany Adon, not doing much. The depiction of Casca beating Adon is pretty terrible. First off she discards her crossbow, wasting time in fighting him instead of focusing on what mattered. Then instead of soundly defeating him like in the manga (he originally had the high ground in the stairs), he's just shown to stumble like an idiot, which undermines her natural prowess as a fighter while not unwell. His bragging afterwards reinforces that sentiment, instead of him playing dirty in the manga like the first time they met. The few comments on her skill do little to counter that general sentiment. Casca falling for "BEHIND YOU!" is eye-roll inducing. Her sword being cut clean off is also hard to believe. Her move to kill him is neat, but it's a meager consolation (and where did Adon get that sword at his waist?). Her original move was quite badass, more spectacular, but also unique to herself, not something another character could have pulled off. And she'd managed it while impaired by poison, too.

Now about Guts. He just falls from his horse instead of his sword breaking. That undermines his fighting prowess. Guess he's just not a good rider? The removal of any reference to Zodd is regrettable, what with Guts thinking back to a time of true despair to hearten himself, and Zodd being there reminding us of the ominous things to come, the underlying thread of things beyond the principles of man creeping in the shadows.

Cut to the random one-eyed guy who'd have been able to kill Griffith in the midst of battle if not for Gennon. That undermines Griffith's fighting prowess. As for Gennon killing the guy it's ridiculous in itself given his complete uselessness as depicted in the manga. Boscone propels enemy soldiers 30 meters up in the air with a single strike, then "laughs" stereotypically, but the sound effect was forgotten. Oopsie! Again, not a flattering characterization for him. So much a bad guy that he can't help but laugh when he kills people!

(http://aazealh.net/Divers/Anime/Movie2/Boscone2.jpg)
The kill scene makes little sense. Boscone is about to strike the death blow when Guts throws a flag past him. Boscone is distracted for half a second but still strikes down. His strike raises an unbelievably large amount of dust. Guts dodges the attack and strikes himself, raising even more dust (pretty much a storm at that point) and killing Boscone. Now my problem is that Boscone had a clear line of sight when he hit Guts. The flag didn't actually prevent him from seeing what he was striking. So it makes absolutely no sense for him to not notice that Guts isn't dead (and he'd know just from not feeling his halberd connect with anything anyway). I mean I can see what they intended with this scene: the flag distracts Boscone and coupled with the dust from his attack it gives Guts a chance to kill him, but it's not what's actually shown to us. So to me that scene is a complete failure.

Notice how the changes overall end up making Guts a lot less impressive. He has trouble against Boscone even though his sword doesn't break and ends up beating him through a hard to believe diversion/dodge act instead of parrying his attack at the last moment (and winning through his strength). It's also amusing to see how Boscone stops his horse dead in its track to strike at Guts instead of more realistically attacking him while charging, which is what happens in the manga.

It's the cry for victory and the enemy flees. Seeing the scene of the Falcon soldiers smiling awkward then cutting down some guys, I can't help but think that CG models really suffer when faces are shown. They probably shouldn't use any CG faces at all, ever. The scene where Griffith's horse walks up to Gennon is animated weirdly. Very unnatural. Maybe because of that halved frame rate business. His interaction with Gennon is changed to add the backstory that was previously removed, Gennon mentioning that they had a night together, Griffith saying it was to avoid putting his men through unnecessary battles, etc. But it's too short and comes too late, barely holding a fraction of the meaning and power all the original scenes had. It doesn't do them any justice at all. It seems to just be there to justify Gennon's otherwise strange obsession, but without more background information it does very little else.

The scene with the orgy boys' bodies is truly perplexing. Gennon's gone from a pedophile abusing young boys in the manga to a decrepit old man having orgies with willing young men who died fighting the invader while literally butt-naked, wearing only short togas.

V. I SEE YOU'VE GOT SOME BALL

(http://aazealh.net/Divers/Anime/Movie2/Flag.jpg)
During the victory parade in Wyndham we see Midland's emblem again and more clearly. The crescent moon symbol has been remplaced with some weird thing that might still be representing the moon but is quite ambiguous and hard to identify. The thunderbolt has also been turned into weird cubic arrows. Even the 3 stars look weird. Needless changes that bring absolutely nothing to the table. And above that we can see lily flowers, the traditional heraldry of French royalty (so totally inappropriate here).

The contrast between 3D and 2D faces is pretty bad. Having Carcus actually lift up some chick and kiss her felt a bit too much. The filler they added during the parade has some nice shots, but again it gives off a wrong characterization, like Casca accepting flowers and such and just blushing as women applaud her. The original conveyed that she was embarrassed by all that display, a feeling later reaffirmed during the ball. And we also have again people crossing themselves while praying on their knees.

Charlotte is not shown at all, as aren't the queen or Foss since the assassination plot was removed from the movie. All that life and background given to the world and setting, giving among other things a measure of Griffith's huge ambition, gone.

At the ball we see some random guys staring at the Falcons while Griffith is surrounded by women right behind them. In the manga, the same commanders who'd been hostile to Griffith in the past are shown resenting his popularity (with Raban & Owen being fair to him) while no one really minds his lieutenants. Senseless change. The Falcons' characterization while watching Griffith is also lost in the process.

The shot of Farnese, Serpico and Azan accompanying some bishops from the Holy See is needless and senseless, as commented on before. Not only does the timeline make this event rather unlikely, but this was a ball to celebrate the victory of Midland over Tudor and in honor of the Band of the Falcon. To put it simply: this is gratuitous fan service and it shows. I'm sure it came from a good sentiment, but clearly not much thought went into it. These characters (Farnese, Serpico, Azan and Guts, Casca, Griffith) aren't supposed to have met each other before later on in the story. What's going to happen in the Conviction arc? They'll recognize the Black Swordsman? "Oh, it was this guy from the Band of the Falcon?" Same with Casca? Same with Griffith? Those are pretty serious changes to the story considering that these characters still currently don't know who Guts nor Casca were before. Deplorable.

Then Guts is shown pushing noble ladies in a way that is rather exaggerated. He certainly wasn't at ease in that element but there's a middle ground between being a dandy and a brute. The scene when Casca grabs him to get away lacks the humor of the general. That's one aspect of the movie worth noting: how seriously it takes itself. It's devoid of the manga's humor, and what few funny moments it features usually fall flat.

It should be noted that Casca's wearing a headdress and a necklace that look on par if not more expensive than Charlotte's... When talking about her dress and all, the little moment of having her covering up one of her scars is a neat addition, I guess. Adds nothing, but at least it doesn't detract from the story either. It's rare enough to be worth noting. Then they're talking about Guts showing up at the ball and because they never had the Bonfire of Dreams talk, the scene is changed to beef up Casca's understanding that he's really going to leave into him telling her more or less directly. Obviously it doesn't have a hundredth of the emotional depth of the original scene (and I'm not even talking about the Bonfire of Dreams scene itself).

(http://aazealh.net/Divers/Anime/Movie2/Guts.jpg)
Cut to applause as the king arrives. Charlotte's hair looks like it's been cut short because of the angle. The king's costume is notable for how gaudy and unrefined it looks compared to what he wears in the manga. His cloak, like the flag, bears the emblem of the French royalty. Anyways, as he makes his speech, Guts & Casca come in together, since of course Guts isn't staying outside in preparation to having to deal with Elise's kidnappers. There's a lot of stuff removed here, his reflexion on how hard Griffith's plan to appear dead will be on Casca and the others, etc. And of course removing the political plot lessens the depth of the story all around as well as the character development for everyone involved in one way or another (including the Casca, Carcus, Pippin, Judo, Rickert's reaction to his return). But I digress, so Guts and Casca come back, and then Guts leaves her side halfway through for no reason, and he's not even going anywhere in particular. We see some nameless guys being angry again. Carcus throws his hat while yelling, which for someone like him who always minds his appearance and desperately tries to not appear to be a rube is a pretty drastic change (see what he tells Guts during the hunting party or even more to the point when they meet at the bar before Guts leaves). His attitude in the manga is completely different. Anyways, Guts has reached the window at the back of the room, which is obviously just so that he and Griffith can exchange smiles like in the manga. Only it's lost all its meaning and power here, after everything they've excised.

Then comes the dance scene. Some pretty weird dancing moves shown there. Also, the emphasis on a single flute for the music doesn't seem to fit what would be playing at a royal ball to me. Anyways, Casca see Charlotte talking to Griffith (which apparently neither the king nor the queen mind at all) and is jealous. Then Guts comes back and makes a hilariously grotesque face (not kidding, it cracks me up), and they dance together. Notice the extremely dumbed-down relationships between the characters here. The 3D during the dance scene bothers me several times. Of course the faces as always, but also the bodies themselves sometimes, and how they move and are animated.

Anyway, seeing Casca and Guts dance together is very cute. Heart-warming and all (though at some point Guts seems to be talking from the way his lips move, only there's no dialogue). But the problem I have with it is that it's fan-fiction. It's not faithful in any way whatsoever to the characters, in fact it's almost a betrayal of their personalities.

VI. DEEP IMPACT

Then cut to Guts walking off, with a homeless guy cheering for the Band of the Falcon, clearly implying that he's doing it hours at most after the ball ended. Big departure from the events in the manga. Of course all of the events in the manga are again gone here, Casca does not see him and come out, he does not go with Carcus and Judo to the bar, does not reflect on the past, future, his life, etc. Does not talk with Judo... So many things are gone... It's really hard to believe how little credit people give these moments. It may not be as iconic, but what I just mentioned is easily as important as the Bonfire of Dreams. And it's all gone without a trace. Instead everybody's waiting for Guts under the tree. Because they somehow sensed he'd been leaving at that precise moment, not an hour earlier or later (Or maybe they've been waiting all night? After all, Griffith is wearing his night gown.), and they knew exactly what path he'd take, too! In the manga Casca and Carcus knew in what direction he was headed, and he was walking on a road. In the movie he's walking in a field, no road in sight. There's even no city gate showing in the background, meaning he's not taken a straight path after exiting Wyndham. And of course he could have left from any point in the city. But nevermind, they're there because they were meant to be (and they probably teleported, too, as there's not a single footprint in the snow). Giant plothole? One more, one less, what's the difference, right?

(http://aazealh.net/Divers/Anime/Movie2/Duel-Crater.jpg)
Griffith's appearance is still odd though, given that we see Pippin's back, but then when Guts walks past him Griffith is revealed still further back. From the angle it's hard to believe Griffith could have stayed concealed until that moment. But again, at this point, we should probably just be happy that he's there and it's not Boscone or Adon instead, right? Anyhow, Griffith's reaction when Guts confirms he intends to leave feels off to me. The stare doesn't feel right. Guts is also wearing armor when he's not supposed to be. Of course, he didn't leave his old breastplate and broken sword, which Casca won't find and hold after his departure, etc. Same stuff I was pointing out over a year ago. Maybe two years now? Can't remember. So much of it was right too, down to his sword not breaking. Ah well.

Carcus' little rant, while close to the original, feels devoid of its original meaning given how little background it has. He almost feels infantile there to me, even just from the way they animated him and how the voice actor portrays him. The relationship between Guts and Casca is not shown at all, it's in fact inexistent here. I cannot help but mourn for its loss given how great it was. Guts thinking back to Judo's words, Casca's look and her expression of shock as he walks past her without a word. All of that a premise to Griffith drawing his sword. Masterful. And yet just another part cut off from the movie without remorse. Because you wouldn't want to hurt the pacing, right? That's what matters, the pacing! It probably would have hurt the pacing to include it! Am I convincing myself yet? Nope.

Here she just tells him to stop as he's walking off, but it has no depth, emotion or meaning. Then Griffith draws. The perspective for the backdrop, with Wyndham being there even though Guts and Griffith are shown from the side while it was actually behind Guts while he was walking away, bothers me as much as it did the first time I saw that scene. A detail, but at this point why not mention it. The reflexion of everybody, from Judo about Casca to Griffith's thoughts about Guts are stripped down to a lot less than what the acceptable minimum would have been. The scene of the two of them standing still looks as amateurish as always. I can't help but feel that they should have redone it. They didn't convey the subtlety of the swordplay at work during that duel either. The fact Guts actually waited for Griffith's attack and cut his sword from "behind", preventing any form of parrying, and proving his superior swordsmanship. The slow-mo effect was a good idea, but without the previous insight into what Griffith intended I doubt anybody's going to get it. Who cares though, because their swing creates a foot deep crater! Now how cool is that (I am being sarcastic)!

We're also not shown the effort Guts makes to hold his sword back from injuring Griffith, which is another testament to his skill. But we're shown that his sword cut some of Griffith's hair (alright, that's not terrible or anything)! And Guts blows off some steam afterwards (that however isn't so good). In the manga, as Casca tries to touch Griffith, it seems to be that he turns his face away, indicating that he doesn't want to be touched. She then withdraws her hand. In the movie she just does instantly it without him moving or reacting. She's also not shown briefly hesitating before calling Guts' name, and the depiction of the scene in the manga seems to imply she shouted it more forcefully than she does in the movie. And of course, Guts does not reflect on what happened, thinking that Griffith will quickly get over it, etc. Very unfortunate, considering the events that follow and how they were obviously unexpected by Guts.

VII. THE MOANS AND THE GROANS

(http://aazealh.net/Divers/Anime/Movie2/Charlotte.jpg)
The talk between Charlotte and the maid is meant to replace some of her dialogue with the queen in the manga. Only a maid shouldn't get to talk to the princess like that... Putting in Anna is cute, though she doesn't feel like her usual goofy self.

Griffith stumbles into the room past Charlotte, walking away until she starts speaking, and then talking with his back turned to her. Not how he's shown in the manga, still smooth despite the situation. The romantic music and general treatment of the scene completely differs from its original portrayal, with Griffith going there on an impulse, staring vacantly while she cries in his arms, then deciding to take advantage of the situation by having sex with her in a rather emotionless manner. But here they've turned it into a love scene, no doubt because they felt a good movie ought to have one. So Griffith looks down at Charlotte and she looks up to him while tender music plays on, they kiss, he twists her nipple and she squeals for 30 solid seconds. Then cut to a bar scene where Casca and the others wonder what Griffith is up to, which brings little to the table because it misses the far more important part where she visits Guts' empty room and holds his sword to her chest. Then they have sex, and while the scene is effectively erotic, I can't help but feel that they went overboard with it, pushing the titillation as far as they could without affecting the rating. Which in itself doesn't bother me beyond the fact it's a bit gratuitous, but it's regrettable that it had to be at the expense of Griffith's emotionlessness, his empty stares and such. It's, again, character development that's gone for no reason, replaced with the dramatic pendulum of the beherit. Same goes for him leaving back the little trinket Charlotte had given him along with a lily of the valley. Small touches like that go a long way.

Meanwhile Casca's again staring at the sky for no reason at the bar, providing nothing of value. Then Griffith is out in the morning. It's a bright day and he's on the pavement, and we hear soldiers running for 5 seconds while Griffith stands there unmoving. In the manga the morning is misty, Griffith is in the some sort of garden and is taken by surprise when the guards emerge out from the mist while he looks back at Charlotte's window. He tries to reach for his sword, but alas has none. This is again excised from the movie. He stands there, hears the captain of the guard's declamation, then is apprehended.

The emphasis put on the Falcons being cold as they stand in the field strikes me as being a bit odd. They've been asked to assemble there and they're unarmed but if it was that cold you'd think they'd have each put on a coat... Then Pippin's warning feels, like most everything, really overdramatic, what with lasting too long, the crows taking flight, the music...

(http://aazealh.net/Divers/Anime/Movie2/Puck.jpg)
Casca's taking command is kinda drawn out, you'd think things would go more quickly in such a situation, especially with arrows pelting them from all sides. Her reining in Carcus isn't too bad for what it is, but not really necessary in the context. The depiction of the ambush in general is also rather odd, not just that they're all thinking "Griffith!" every 5 seconds, but the way they take heart when Casca rallies them. Not very fitting of the dire situation. And we don't see any of them being wounded, not Rickert, Pippin, and not even Casca... That made for an amazing cliffhanger in the manga, too bad. Having this ambush take place at the same time as Griffith's interrogation also feels a bit strange. You'd think the king would go straight to the offender and the killing of his men, especially considering the time needed for them to be contacted, to assemble and all, would come afterwards (i.e. like it does in the manga).

The king's whipping of Griffith comes a bit abruptly, but I guess that's one element that is not too hard to understand without knowing more of the background. What is, however, perplexing is how Griffith comes right away to the conclusion that the king is having inappropriate feelings for his daughter. It's served to the viewer with very little exposition to the king's character and to Charlotte's life, the court's life, the king and the queen's relationship, etc. A pretty big failure on the movie's part as far as I'm concerned. And of course, Griffith's defiance of the king (that results in his orders to torture him for as long as possible), the king's threat to the soldiers, it's all gone.

Guts coming across Puck is meaningless fan service again. Puck had no reason to be there, especially captive. In the manga he's seen later on when Rickert is found by travelling performers, possibly the same guys he was with when he met Judo, and not in captivity. That's continuity. Here he's prisoner of a cage with bars far enough apart that he could squeeze through if he felt like it.

The torturer grabs off the beherit necklace, but somehow without breaking off the link. Given his size and how it's portrayed it hardly makes sense. The beherit falls down the drain and floats away. The end. How anticlimatic.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: SuperVegetto on January 02, 2013, 10:49:55 PM
 You win the best review for Berserk Battle at Doldrey award :ubik:
Seriously that's really detailed and makes me wonder if you're omniscient about the Berserk world
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Jaze1618 on January 02, 2013, 11:10:17 PM
(http://aazealh.net/Divers/Anime/Movie2/Et-tu-Griffith.jpg) And then, wow. Griffith present in the rescue party. What a betrayal of the story and of his character. Inadmissible. And it's for no reason either.

Don't you mean its because Judo was given so little screen time in the first two movies :judo: that the producers were afraid viewers would be confused as to who the rescuers were if only Judo were to represent the named members the hawks at the rescue?  :ganishka:
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Aazealh on January 02, 2013, 11:50:54 PM
Don't you mean its because Judo was given so little screen time in the first two movies :judo: that the producers were afraid viewers would be confused as to who the rescuers were if only Judo were to represent the named members the hawks at the rescue? :ganishka:

I'll admit, as annoying as the fan craze around him was 10 years ago, I kinda feel bad for him with these new movies. Carcus gets the best treatment out of them all.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Roderick on January 03, 2013, 03:31:27 AM
Much creedence was given by some reviewers to the editing during the final sequence, which splices together Griffith's seduction of Charlotte, a bar scene where Casca seems to smell the sex they're having, and Griffith's subsequent torture at the hands of the king. But somewhere around the time of the penis insertion, I was already checked out. The exaggeration of this scene for purely titillating purposes was simply gross. I honestly am dreading what they're going to do with the Eclipse. Like Charlotte sobbing in Griffith's arms before he twists her nipple, will Casca's rape also be serenaded by a tender love theme before they get down to the action?

Yeah, I sort of take back my more positive slant on that scene in regards to how Griffith's motives were depicted in that scene.  In the manga and even the TV anime it is depicted as a seduction/rape scene.  In this film, we get what appears to be a more consensual sex scene that goes out to titillate, while the manga's scene is definitely more uncomfortable.  While it's not something one would notice having never read the manga, it does alter Griffith's (and Charlotte's) character in this movie along with changing the tone of the whole scene.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Oburi on January 03, 2013, 03:54:02 AM
Quote
That made me think that maybe uncle Aaz had to tell it like it is after all. And so here are my observations. Not a review per se, just the comments I made to myself as I watched the movie. Enjoy.

Uncle Aaz telling it like it is! Enjoy it I did haha  :guts:
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Tama on January 03, 2013, 04:58:07 AM
Watched it recently and for me it's on the level of the first film; more or less a disappointment. I feel like if someone who wasn't aware of Berserk came into these films without prior knowledge, they wouldn't care for it that much. I'm also surprised at how long they extended the ball scene, yet cut out the bonfire of dreams sequence or even the scene where Guts talks with Judo and Carcus at the bar prior to leaving. I always thought that conversation held some important dialogue, and in the movie he ends up leaving without really talking to anyone. Also I really hate the slow motion effects they use for the past memories. I admit the flashback with a younger Casca was better then the Gambino one, but is it really necessary to film it this way, or does it just save them money? Anyway I'm not holding my breath for the third movie, but I will hope for the best.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: BerserkFL on January 03, 2013, 06:23:29 AM
The 100 man battle was pretty enjoyable. It was best in the manga and the worst in the old anime, but the graphics here were great and the music was very memorable. While it's true he didn't do any kind of skilled swordplay and simply swung it around like a madman I thought that was pretty cool cause he just went straight beserker mode.

Truth is you could tear this film up and diss the hell out of it when you compare it to the manga and the original anime but why? We already have the best version of the story with the manga and Studio 4C was limited to MUCH less running time so I simply just take it for what it is. When you start comparing it to the manga or even the original anime it's easy to find faults. I rather just not make the comparison personally.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: frankencowx on January 03, 2013, 12:12:30 PM
Truth is you could tear this film up and diss the hell out of it when you compare it to the manga and the original anime but why? We already have the best version of the story with the manga and Studio 4C was limited to MUCH less running time so I simply just take it for what it is. When you start comparing it to the manga or even the original anime it's easy to find faults. I rather just not make the comparison personally.

So we shouldn't have standards and just take everything as is?? What a bunch of doo.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Walter on January 03, 2013, 01:07:46 PM
Truth is you could tear this film up and diss the hell out of it when you compare it to the manga and the original anime but why?
Because we'd like the characters and story to be faithfully represented and not become glorified fan-fiction...? Is that an unreasonable request? The Guts in this movie isn't Guts. The Griffith in this movie certainly isn't Griffith. That's the core of what a lot of us are criticizing about this adaptation.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Aazealh on January 03, 2013, 01:24:38 PM
the graphics here were great

I think that's highly debatable. What was great? The animation? The 3D models? Personally I wasn't impressed.

the music was very memorable.

For what it's worth, I don't remember it. I remember the TV series' OST though, and believe me I don't watch it very often.

While it's true he didn't do any kind of skilled swordplay and simply swung it around like a madman I thought that was pretty cool cause he just went straight beserker mode.

But you know that it could have been intense and featured skilled swordplay. All they had to do was follow what's in the manga.

Truth is you could tear this film up and diss the hell out of it when you compare it to the manga and the original anime but why? We already have the best version of the story with the manga and Studio 4C was limited to MUCH less running time so I simply just take it for what it is. When you start comparing it to the manga or even the original anime it's easy to find faults. I rather just not make the comparison personally.

And why not? Why not be critical towards it? We paid for it, right? And more generally, as fans, we have a right to gauge the quality of what we're offered, don't we? Studio 4įC chose to adapt the Golden Age arc in that format. They came up with it, no one imposed it on them. They had other choices. And that's the original sin, because it's patently obvious that it just can't fit. We knew it right from the start, and they should have as well. It's their job and they're paid for it. If the average guy messes up at work, he gets into trouble. Why would these guys be above scrutiny?

All I care about is the final product myself. And I don't find it good. I'm certainly not going to lie to myself just because it's painful to admit that these movies suck.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: IncantatioN on January 03, 2013, 02:34:10 PM
It's a bit weird all jokes aside ... in the sense, you encourage someone to post what they liked about it so it can be played down upon. I think Walter made a post about having positive reviewers talk about the movie and it's all an opinion in the end. Whether people liked the music or hated the CG or liked the way Guts jumped 20 feet in the air or whether Griffith was not Griffith, etc. - it's all relative. The Avengers didn't get a 100% RT rating even though the general consensus liked it, so if there are a few people who liked movie 2, so what. I know a few people who've expressed that they fell out of Berserk because of the last arc in the manga citing how it wasn't as engaging or felt too short, etc. and you can't argue with a point of view. A difference of opinion shouldn't be shot down. No adaptation is going to top the manga. Case in point - Akira is one of the best animated movies out there and purists hate the movie. It is fair to want Studio 4C to adapt this to the tee and loathe the end result, much like it is to like it. I haven't watched the 2nd movie yet and I can't wait to experience it. I love Aazealh's review, I tried to avoid reviews on here (browse cursorily to see who's watched it without reading the gist) but I couldn't resist his usual enchanting precise wordplay.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Aazealh on January 03, 2013, 03:32:08 PM
Whether people liked the music or hated the CG or liked the way Guts jumped 20 feet in the air or whether Griffith was not Griffith, etc. - it's all relative.

BerserkFL specifically posted to say that he didn't think people should criticize the movie by comparing it to the manga or even the old TV series. He wasn't simply giving his opinion but commenting on others'. That invited answers from other members.

Case in point - Akira is one of the best animated movies out there and purists hate the movie.

That's a very different case, and as a fan of Akira I can tell you I don't hate the movie, even though story-wise I think it's clearly inferior to the manga. But again, it's a very different case. Don't mix everything up.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: BerserkFL on January 04, 2013, 05:50:10 AM
Whoa calm down everyone. Maybe I can say good things about this adaptation because I went into it with realistic expectations. As soon as it was confirmed Studio 4C would try to cram THAT much story into 3 films I did a few Captain Picard facepalms, cursed the project for months, hugged my Manga's, then after it all sank in I accepted what it would be. Had they announced it would be another long series meant to be a true adaptation of the Manga I would have been MUCH more critical.

It is what it is guys. I tried to get my younger cousins into the older anime and they just couldn't get past how crappy it looked. They certainly aren't the types to read Manga. But so far they have really liked the Golden Arc movies. So that's something right?

Haters gonna hate but that 100 man battle was very entertaining to watch. Plus the siege of Doldrey was very good too. Lack of Zodd......lack of Guts sword breaking.....lack of fairy medicine......lack of Bonfire of Dreams.....do you see what I'm doing here? Every cut falls back onto another cut. At which point do you accept 4C simply wasn't going to a very faithful adaptation? They had to pick and choose what they wanted to be good. Zodd scene, 100 man battle, Doldrey, Griffith getting tortured.

Maybe I am just too forgiving, but like I said before I knew they weren't going to make something even remotely close to the manga with 3 films clocking in at less than an hour and half each. LOL to the max actually. Trying to adapt a story THAT rich and full in that amount of time? Nah, no way that would ever live up to any of our standards. My expectations were set so low that the few things they did do "right" (relative term) I enjoyed very much since I didn't expect to enjoy anything.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Griffith on January 04, 2013, 09:03:26 AM
Whoa calm down everyone. Maybe I can say good things about this adaptation because I went into it with realistic expectations. As soon as it was confirmed Studio 4C would try to cram THAT much story into 3 films I did a few Captain Picard facepalms, cursed the project for months, hugged my Manga's, then after it all sank in I accepted what it would be. Had they announced it would be another long series meant to be a true adaptation of the Manga I would have been MUCH more critical.

That's essentially what they did announce and trumpet, a long term "saga" project more faithful to the manga. Looks like they're not the only ones failing to live up to their end of the bargain though. Also, I'm not sure what difference it makes. If they'd announced they intended on doing a shitty job would we now have to applaud them for succeeding? Bad is bad, and low aims or expectations aren't mitigating circumstances, let alone exonerating ones. I don't have a problem with people liking it for what it is, as Direct DK effectively argued, but you're basically advocating for our non-opinion or the forfeiture of critical thinking. Like we're in the wrong simply for recognizing the poor quality of the product. In a nutshell: if we just go in willing to accept anything, it's really not so bad. Yeah... No thanks.

I tried to get my younger cousins into the older anime and they just couldn't get past how crappy it looked. They certainly aren't the types to read Manga. But so far they have really liked the Golden Arc movies. So that's something right?

Great, I'm glad Berserk was shit all over with an awful adaptation that's worthless to me so your adolescent cousins that don't give a shit could have some bad anime to watch. It was all worth it! Definitely my hope for a new anime from the start, "Gee, I hope they make something BerserkFL's cousins will like!" That is NOT something, dude. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbJ-4vuffhI#t=2m13s)

Maybe I am just too forgiving

I'd argue there's nothing to forgive when you've forfeited the right to be upset about anything. That's the problem. It's not forgiveness, it's more like critical abstinence.

Nah, no way that would ever live up to any of our standards.

Our standards? Who exactly are you throwing yourself in with? Don't equate your forsaking of standards to those willing to call a spade a spade. Look, everyone wanted to like these movies, it's just that some of us wanted them to be good as a condition (crazy, I know). So, their shittiness is embarrassing to all and naturally some don't want to admit how bad they are, it's more fun to find silver linings, which leads to all this rationalizing, circular reasoning, and hilarious exercises in positivity. Fine, I'll play along; it's good for what it is! A statement that means absolutely nothing, which is about the nicest thing anyone can say about these movies. Someday I'm going to write a psych paper on this fandroid syndrome: Strange Love: Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Berserk Saga Project. I guess I could just leave the word "bomb" intact as well. :griffnotevil:

So, enjoy it for "what it is," but don't come in here and say it's above critique, particularly for an inherently absurd and circular reason as it's SO BAD it's silly to criticize. I don't know about you, but that's not the standard I want Berserk or its related properties held to.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: RyoGTO on January 04, 2013, 12:34:10 PM
It's so bad, it's good? :serpico:
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Wyrm on January 04, 2013, 12:48:38 PM
Well, I for one enjoyed the first movie although I can understand how bigger fans than I might strongly dislike it.
To be honest, I prefer that something bad is done with <insert my favourite franchise> than nothing at all. My reasoning is that if it's at least moderately successful it might lead to other productions with more quality. Of course a work can be so bad that it kills an entire franchise altogether but I don't remember any examples...

All in all it's similar to "Say good or bad things about me, i don't care. But talk about me, goddammit!"

Not justifiying the movie or saying that you shouldn't criticize it, far from it. Just saying that there's nothing wrong in seeing the silver lining and hope that 1 bad adaptation may lead to a better one.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: BerserkMJM on January 04, 2013, 04:07:14 PM
I'd still like to see The Black Swordsman done. Though, even if it's successful and they do everything right going forward, their adaptation of the series will feel incomplete as this trilogy will still be considered part of it. So unless they plan to revisit and make good on this part of the story sometime in the future, they've already left a bad mark on the whole thing.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Hanma_Baki on January 04, 2013, 04:31:17 PM
^True. I´ve been pondering on that too and its unfortunate...but...I was going to say something on a more positive note but nothing comes to mind :farnese:

Yo, Aaz, that is the mother of all reviews :guts: Your attention to detail is as mesmerising as ever. Made for an epic lunch break read, thanks for sharing. I thought I was picky and critical but much of the more in-depth issues you mention I never even noticed, then again I wasnt really looking or comparing to the manga on that level. And its nice that you´re drawing parallels to the manga on a regular basis like that, and describing each version, sorry I know Im dick riding here but it gives a sense of professionalism/sophistication having you around :ubik:

EDIT: Not just Aaz though, I like all you guys´ reviews :slan:
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Jaze1618 on January 04, 2013, 04:41:41 PM
Someday I'm going to write a psych paper on this fandroid syndrome: Strange Love: Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Berserk Saga Project. I guess I could just leave the word "bomb" intact as well. :griffnotevil:

FUNNNY!!!  :ganishka: :ganishka: :ganishka: :ubik:
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: frankencowx on January 04, 2013, 05:16:36 PM
I think Griffith's sig pretty much sums up what Studio 4įC is doing to Berserk.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: BerserkFL on January 04, 2013, 05:35:02 PM
That's essentially what they did announce and trumpet, a long term "saga" project more faithful to the manga. Looks like they're not the only ones failing to live up to their end of the bargain though. Also, I'm not sure what difference it makes. If they'd announced they intended on doing a shitty job would we now have to applaud them for succeeding? Bad is bad, and low aims or expectations aren't mitigating circumstances, let alone exonerating ones. I don't have a problem with people liking it for what it is, as Direct DK effectively argued, but you're basically advocating for our non-opinion or the forfeiture of critical thinking. Like we're in the wrong simply for recognizing the poor quality of the product. In a nutshell: if we just go in willing to accept anything, it's really not so bad. Yeah... No thanks.

Great, I'm glad Berserk was shit all over with an awful adaptation that's worthless to me so your adolescent cousins that don't give a shit could have some bad anime to watch. It was all worth it! Definitely my hope for a new anime from the start, "Gee, I hope they make something BerserkFL's cousins will like!" That is NOT something, dude. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbJ-4vuffhI#t=2m13s)

I'd argue there's nothing to forgive when you've forfeited the right to be upset about anything. That's the problem. It's not forgiveness, it's more like critical abstinence.

Our standards? Who exactly are you throwing yourself in with? Don't equate your forsaking of standards to those willing to call a spade a spade. Look, everyone wanted to like these movies, it's just that some of us wanted them to be good as a condition (crazy, I know). So, their shittiness is embarrassing to all and naturally some don't want to admit how bad they are, it's more fun to find silver linings, which leads to all this rationalizing, circular reasoning, and hilarious exercises in positivity. Fine, I'll play along; it's good for what it is! A statement that means absolutely nothing, which is about the nicest thing anyone can say about these movies. Someday I'm going to write a psych paper on this fandroid syndrome: Strange Love: Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Berserk Saga Project. I guess I could just leave word "bomb" intact as well. :griffnotevil:

So, enjoy it for "what it is," but don't come in here and say it's above critique, particularly for an inherently absurd and circular reason as it's SO BAD it's silly to criticize. I don't know about you, but that's not the standard I want Berserk or its related properties held to.

Dude anime has sucked for so long now what did you expect? Why did you expect it to be good? What indication did you have that it would be? Studio 4C produce something really great in the past I'm not aware of?

It's just a movie so take it down a notch. I watched it like a tech demo showcasing some memorable scenes from the Berserk manga and that's all. There really was no reason to ever get excited or to expect something of great quality. I sure as hell never hoped for much. I have no desire to expel energy on hatin on these films. If I went down that road I'd sound a lot like you and my blood pressure would go up. I've ranted plenty about movies that sucked and have a few long winded posts over at IMDB. But those movies didn't have an amazing Manga to fall back on or even a pretty enjoyable old anime. My Berserk "fix" is filled already, I sure as hell never expected Studio 4C to come even close. Not close at all. Now the movies here and COMPARED to the manga it is pure garbage but why exert energy pointing out what everyone already knows?

If you're a Berserk fan you have to watch it. You can either go into with one attitude and just enjoy what you can or you can go into it where you chunk your dinner tray at the TV.

I made my choice.

Aside from the story one thing I will defend is the way it looks. Personally I thought the tech was pretty cool and looks great in HD. Not really seeing the comparison to cutscenes from a video game.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: jackson_hurley on January 04, 2013, 07:39:00 PM
I watched it like a tech demo showcasing some memorable scenes from the Berserk manga and that's all.


Except in that case those "memorable scenes" are far (imo) from being memorable in the first two films. And those scenes in the movies that should be memorable got all messed up rending them (again imo) not so memorable, at all...
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Walter on January 04, 2013, 08:04:33 PM
There really was no reason to ever get excited or to expect something of great quality.
Well, in this regard you're preaching to the choir. Go talk to those "excellent" voters, or those that voted "AMAZING. Loved every second!" in the first movie thread. That being said, debunking something that was initially marketed as a faithful adaptation is totally within reason. I think some fans are simply offput by the notion that we take Berserk very seriously. It's something we care about deeply. So seeing it turned into shit isn't comfortable.

Quote
Now the movies here and COMPARED to the manga it is pure garbage but why exert energy pointing out what everyone already knows?
If that's all you got out of Aazealh's post, then you really missed the point. He's pointing out why it's shit on its own grounds, not simply in comparison to the manga.

Quote
If you're a Berserk fan you have to watch it.
Why?

Anyway, the takeaway I'm getting here is that you enjoyed it even though you acknowledge that it was complete shit. How would you rate the movie then? This is, afterall the review thread. Not the whine about others reviews thread.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Hanma_Baki on January 04, 2013, 08:11:31 PM
I guess ultimately both arguments are pretty valid, this though...

It's just a movie so take it down a notch.

No, its not just a movie. Its (supposed to be) a Berserk movie. That should be enough as an argument. It means it should EARN the title. Berserk is pretty much the best story ever written/visualized to me, and to many others I'm sure. If there is an adaptation to be made from "pretty much the best story ever written/visualized" things just shouldn't be allowed to go wrong. To make drastic changes to "pretty much the best story ever written/visualized" and then calling it the same thing almost feels like a crime to me. I also don't get your philosophy about bad films that aren't based on good story to begin with are worth bitching about whereas movies that are based on a good story aren't :???:

Im not saying, now lets hate and be depressed about it for an eternity, but please don't tell others to "take it down a notch" and especially that its "just a movie" cause for some people, including myself, its pretty serious stuff, we feel passionately and thus naturally protective about this work of art.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Griffith on January 04, 2013, 09:28:38 PM
It's so bad, it's good? :serpico:

Yeah, these movies are the Commando of the Berserk franchise. Only watch them to LET OFF SOME STEAM! :badbone:

Of course a work can be so bad that it kills an entire franchise altogether but I don't remember any examples...

That's certainly part of my bitterness. Berserk's likely not going to get another adaptation, this was it's last shot for the the kind of recognition you were talking about, so it's a shame that it was wasted on this. Considering the cult popularity of the crappy TV series, a faithful and halfway decent attempt could have been something special, but this was half-assed from the start.

Not justifiying the movie or saying that you shouldn't criticize it, far from it. Just saying that there's nothing wrong in seeing the silver lining and hope that 1 bad adaptation may lead to a better one.

A far more reasonable positive position. On that note, there's more reason to hope for better adaptations in the future is if more people ask for one. If people squawk loud enough, hopefully Studio 4C hears it. Unfortunately, our valid complaints may be getting lost in the white noise of, "SHHHHH, DON'T SAY MEAN THINGS ABOUT TEH MOVIES GUYZ!!" We should have WWII-style propaganda posters, like, "Loose lips sink ships." =)

I'd still like to see The Black Swordsman done. Though, even if it's successful and they do everything right going forward, their adaptation of the series will feel incomplete as this trilogy will still be considered part of it. So unless they plan to revisit and make good on this part of the story sometime in the future, they've already left a bad mark on the whole thing.

Oh God no, I hope nobody ever touches Golden Age again (twice has been more than enough). If they do cover any Black Swordsman material, I hope they learn from their mistakes and from fan reaction (hint: not blind acceptance) and do a better job. If we could still get a decent Black Swordsman adaptation out of this, well... that's more than I can hope for honestly. Now I'm just torturing myself again. BerserkFL was right!

Dude anime has sucked for so long now what did you expect? Why did you expect it to be good? What indication did you have that it would be? Studio 4C produce something really great in the past I'm not aware of?

What's your point though? Like I said, bad is bad. It doesn't make a difference if we saw it coming (we did, and were sounding the alarm bells, and meeting such resistance, early). That doesn't mean we shouldn't dislike it for being bad, or more strangely you seem to be arguing that we should just accept it because of that. I don't even understand your motivation, if you're so relaxed about it why bother arguing with someone that obviously does care? It's like you just decided you don't like how seriously we take Berserk and are going to give us a piece of your mind, post some relaxed platitudes, set us straight and tell us to chill out. Well great, welcome to the skullknight.net: the definitive source for all things Berserk message board. You can relax now, and for the record my blood pressure is surprisingly low (seriously, I'm surprised by this =).

why exert energy pointing out what everyone already knows?

Apparently, everyone doesn't know it, or is in denial, and you're not helping. As for why, simple honesty is a fine enough reason, but if you want something more high minded it's the only way for fans to effect change, besides voting with their wallets. In the best case scenario a negative reception could cause Studio 4C to change their approach, but even if that's a long shot, it's better than just saying nothing. WWII-style propaganda slogan: Don't be a jerk, speak up for Berserk! :guts:

I've ranted plenty about movies that sucked and have a few long winded posts over at IMDB.

Ok, now it makes all sense. Nevermind! :troll:
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: SuperVegetto on January 04, 2013, 10:15:23 PM
You should see comments in youtube in various videos such as Aria for example. People who complain get bashed and if the criticizer of the movie says something like: " It didn't have assassination, bonfire of dreams, the talk in the bar " the reply would be: " SO this movie is bad because they didn't put the scenes that YOU wanted to see? and other stupidities" (even though those scenes are important in Berserk)"
Then they use "it's your preference" arguments and compare it with food and things like that

See for yourself, criticizer: "As a hardcore Berserk fan this is something to bitch about. Since it also seals the chance of another Golden Age Arc reboot. I don't mind the CGI but they skipped WAAY too much. ESPECIALLY character dialogue and this is the one arc where character development and depth is really important. I hated the second movie even more than the first. Guts' connection to the rest of the Band of Hawk isn't there, Griffith doesn't have nearly as much depth and I wish these movies never came out."
One of the reactions:
"WAAAAHHHHH!! WAAAAAHHHH!! THIS ISNT THE MOVIE I WANTED SO IT SHOULD NOT EXIST!!! WAAAHHHHH!!" (13 thumbs up, 4 down)

Also I commented in support to the criticizer, all my comments got negative votes and won't show unless clicked. Lol some people are so insecure
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Griffith on January 04, 2013, 11:14:58 PM
Frightening testimonials from the vortex of lost souls that is the youtube comments section; for those that will never be heard but are compelled to scream into the void nonetheless. This chilling window to the world outside our walls makes me suddenly very grateful for our higher caliber defenders of the films. :griffnotevil:
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: BerserkFL on January 04, 2013, 11:25:16 PM
Hmm, lot of passion in here. My passion is reserved for the manga.

As for Studio 4C and asking for better....LOL joking right? I might appear new here but I've been visiting this forum for god, has it been 5 years or longer now? Hell could be 10 years I've lost track. Fans demanding more Berserk is nothing new and for a long long long time we did beg for more. I mean how could we not considering where the anime series ended right?

Sorry to be a Debbie downer or negative but if after this VERY long wait they couldn't show the project more respect than 4C did I have zero faith it will ever happen. Maybe I accepted defeat 5+ years ago when my friends and I would have the freaking 300th conversation about needing more Berserk and "HOW COULD THEY END IT THAT WAY!?!!" It is the greatest story ever and absolute as perfect of a blueprint for an amazing anime adaptation as possible. Yet for all those years they ignored it then finally got with Studio 4C to give us a half assed (hell 1/10th ass) version?

I guess my hope just died completely so long ago I'm void of the passion or energy to hate on these new films.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: SuperVegetto on January 04, 2013, 11:51:34 PM
Frightening testimonials from the vortex of lost souls that is the youtube comments section; for those that will never be heard but are compelled to scream into the void nonetheless. This chilling window to the world outside our walls makes me suddenly very grateful for our higher caliber defenders of the films. :griffnotevil:

 :ganishka: You should post more often in the Berserk anime section
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Jaze1618 on January 05, 2013, 12:17:35 AM
I watched it like a tech demo showcasing some memorable scenes from the Berserk manga and that's all.

Now here is something I can get on board with. Has a faithful adaptation, the trilogy has failed. And even has a movie adaptations the trilogy is pretty bad. But I suppose it does go above and beyond as a tech demo, but of course that's not what it was marketed as.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Aazealh on January 05, 2013, 05:30:21 AM
Maybe I can say good things about this adaptation because I went into it with realistic expectations.

Expectations should not have anything to do with it. It's just pretty bad honestly. That's it. Take it from the guy who'd warned about its possible problems before it was even officially announced.

So that's something right?

Is it "something" that your younger cousins, who couldn't be bothered to read a graphic novel of any kind, like those movies? I'd say no.

Haters gonna hate but that 100 man battle was very entertaining to watch. Plus the siege of Doldrey was very good too. Lack of Zodd......lack of Guts sword breaking.....lack of fairy medicine......lack of Bonfire of Dreams.....do you see what I'm doing here? Every cut falls back onto another cut. At which point do you accept 4C simply wasn't going to a very faithful adaptation? They had to pick and choose what they wanted to be good. Zodd scene, 100 man battle, Doldrey, Griffith getting tortured.

You miss the point. Those movies are bad. Good for you if you found a small part of this movie "enjoyable" (your conspicuous silence on the remaining 1h15 of it is telling enough), but that doesn't change the problems it has, problems you have acknowledged yourself. I don't doubt that a lot of people liked Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen, but it's still a shitty movie. No one denies you the right to enjoy whatever you want to. But I reserve myself the right to question what people think is needed or not to do Berserk justice.

Why did you expect it to be good? What indication did you have that it would be?

What a dumb statement. Why expect it to be good? Again, expectations have nothing to do with it. As fans, it's perfectly normal to want it to be good, and as paying customers, it's expected of us to demand it to be good. Satisfying oneself with a bad product is what is unnatural here. You don't go to a restaurant expecting to eat rotten food, do you? And if you did happen to be served rotten food, you wouldn't eat it without complaints, or try to rationalize the experience. "Oh well, the water wasn't that foul at least". That's what you're doing here.

I watched it like a tech demo showcasing some memorable scenes from the Berserk manga and that's all.

It didn't really "showcase" anything though. What scenes were featured looked rather bad to me.

There really was no reason to ever get excited or to expect something of great quality. I sure as hell never hoped for much. I have no desire to expel energy on hatin on these films. If I went down that road I'd sound a lot like you and my blood pressure would go up. My Berserk "fix" is filled already, I sure as hell never expected Studio 4C to come even close. Not close at all. Now the movies here and COMPARED to the manga it is pure garbage but why exert energy pointing out what everyone already knows?

No one's losing sleep over those movies here, let me assure you. And being upfront about their low quality doesn't take any more passion than pretending they're good. As to why we're exerting energy posting about it... Well, uh, we're fans, so that's pretty much what we do. Not to mention that apparently not everyone knows it. Just look at the poll.

Aside from the story one thing I will defend is the way it looks. Personally I thought the tech was pretty cool and looks great in HD. Not really seeing the comparison to cutscenes from a video game.

I think the problem's on your side.

I might appear new here but I've been visiting this forum for god, has it been 5 years or longer now? Hell could be 10 years I've lost track. Fans demanding more Berserk is nothing new and for a long long long time we did beg for more. I mean how could we not considering where the anime series ended right?

Not sure I follow you. The official SK.net stance was never MORE ANIME NO MATTER THE QUALITY, quite the opposite in fact. If you've been lurking for years you must be aware of this. The TV series ended on a cliffhanger, but it didn't matter to those who were reading the manga. The people who clamored for a second season in 2002 aren't active anymore. And if they were I'm not sure they'd be satisfied with these movies anyway.

Sorry to be a Debbie downer or negative but if after this VERY long wait they couldn't show the project more respect than 4C did I have zero faith it will ever happen.

We'll see. It doesn't really pertain to the issue at hand though.

To be honest, I prefer that something bad is done with <insert my favourite franchise> than nothing at all. My reasoning is that if it's at least moderately successful it might lead to other productions with more quality. Of course a work can be so bad that it kills an entire franchise altogether but I don't remember any examples...

All in all it's similar to "Say good or bad things about me, i don't care. But talk about me, goddammit!"

Not justifiying the movie or saying that you shouldn't criticize it, far from it. Just saying that there's nothing wrong in seeing the silver lining and hope that 1 bad adaptation may lead to a better one.

Now this is an argument I can understand. However I'm not sure these movies will do much good in that regard. If anything at least I hope they end up being profitable, even if barely.

Yo, Aaz, that is the mother of all reviews :guts: Your attention to detail is as mesmerising as ever. Made for an epic lunch break read, thanks for sharing. I thought I was picky and critical but much of the more in-depth issues you mention I never even noticed, then again I wasnt really looking or comparing to the manga on that level. And its nice that youīre drawing parallels to the manga on a regular basis like that, and describing each version, sorry I know Im dick riding here but it gives a sense of professionalism/sophistication having you around :ubik:

Glad you enjoyed it! I figured that if I was going to post a review I might as well make it a serious one.

Now here is something I can get on board with. Has a faithful adaptation, the trilogy has failed. And even has a movie adaptations the trilogy is pretty bad. But I suppose it does go above and beyond as a tech demo, but of course that's not what it was marketed as.

But do you think it looks good, from a purely technical perspective? I'd say it's very, very uneven. Some scenes are alright when reduced to short clips, but they're few and far between.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Cronus on January 05, 2013, 05:33:41 AM
If there is one thing I learned a long time ago, especially for a book/comic being adapted to a film, you will always be disappointed.  The best you can do is judge the result on its own merit in its own context.

So on that note, I just watched it.  I voted it as good, a little better than the first one overall.  The production team definitely stuck to what they could do well from the first and expanded it here.  The 100 man battle was great to see, the Doldrey battle was well done to me, and they hit most of the main plot points.

My main gripe really was with Griffith's relationship to Gennon.  I think they tried to sort of pull it all together at the meeting where he is killed, which didn't work at all.  Obviously the manga is better, blah blah blah.  The Casca/Guts going in circles at the ball was also pretty laughable, but I still managed to smile.

Otherwise, if you saw the first one, expect the same brisk pace with the story in general.  I feel they encapsulated key moments from the manga into 90 minutes quite well, and frankly most of the reviews here I very much disagree with.  (Including the EXCELLENT!!!!1 ones.)  I appreciate what they are doing with the material and I definitely can't wait for the 3rd one - it will be extremely difficult to pull it off well I think, particularly in regards to Casca/Femto.  I'll be honest here - while I know that the rape is very integral to the plot in the manga the presentation is just too much for me and other people I have tried to get interested in the manga. If the studio takes it in a different direction such as a 'less is more' route, it could be a vastly superior scene without the absurd exhibition.  That and if it is as graphic as the manga, I don't see it coming out state side.

I have shown the first film to a couple of people who were not familiar with the series, and it interested them enough to borrow some of my manga.  I feel that this movie does a good job of continuing that, and hopefully the third one will do the same along with it hopefully continuing.  Most of the Berserk fans hating on the films I think just hate that they're animating the Golden Age AGAIN and are examining it a bit too much.  They want the Black Swordsman arc, Lost Children, Retribution, and all of the good stuff afterward.  Count me among those fans that want to see them brought to life, and hopefully these first three movies will be successful enough to justify it.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Walter on January 05, 2013, 05:44:13 AM
Glad you were able to see it. Was wondering what you'd think. "Good" though...? I'm pretty surprised  :griffnotevil:

they hit most of the main plot points.
And didn't do much else...  :void:

Quote
My main gripe really was with Griffith's relationship to Gennon.
Really? Even moreso than the removal of the Griffith/boy soldier scene, Bonfire of Dreams, Queen Assassination, etc? That's surprising to me. Gennon was always a means to an end in the series. He's a vehicle to show how far Griffith will go. But he had some key scenes tangentially related to him, such as when Casca sees Griffith on the morning after. And that, of course, is missing, and missed. But I didn't feel that us  not seeing Griffith up on that balcony with Gennon's arm around him was a truly missed element. Afterall, in this version we get Gennon groping Griffith's thighs. That's something... right?

Quote
I definitely can't wait for the 3rd one - it will be extremely difficult to pull it off well I think, particularly in regards to Casca/Femto.
As well as any emotional gravity whatsoever that they've failed to instill in the other members of the Falcons. Not to mention the time compression issues they're going to have with so much ground to cover. I think it will be miraculous if the movie comes across as coherent.

Quote
 I'll be honest here - while I know that the rape is very integral to the plot in the manga the presentation is just too much for me and other people I have tried to get interested in the manga. If the studio takes it in a different direction such as a 'less is more' route, it could be a vastly superior scene without the absurd exhibition.  That and if it is as graphic as the manga, I don't see it coming out state side.
...You did see the Griffith/Charlotte scene in Movie 2, right? Expect full-on, Ali G-style "I Wanna See It ... Goin In" action for Femto's debut.

Quote
Most of the Berserk fans hating on the films I think just hate that they're animating the Golden Age AGAIN and are examining it a bit too much.  They want the Black Swordsman arc, Lost Children, Retribution, and all of the good stuff afterward.  Count me among those fans that want to see them brought to life, and hopefully these first three movies will be successful enough to justify it.
Honestly, if this same studio is going to attempt to animate other sequences in the series, I'd rather not have it at all. Having them animated as a novelty is worth utterly nothing to me. It has to represent the spirit of the series in order to it to matter. And so far this adaptation has merely been going through the motions.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Roderick on January 05, 2013, 06:48:50 AM
It's not merely a matter of things changing, though I see how that'd be a convenient exit strategy. Quite simply, these movies suck all on their own. Characters don't reach logical conclusions. Actions are taken without meaningful explanation. Character origins are obscured or simply removed, which makes things confusing for everyone involved. There are so many missed opportunities for development that are instead traded for new or extended action/boning sequences. Seriously, how is that still not being understood?

I agree that this is the crux of the issue with this series at the moment, especially with this second film.  Characters at this point are seriously one-dimensional and the more complex key plot points clash with the undercooked characterizations when the film can't rely on the most basic of motivations.  Guts' duel with Griffith is the most serious offender in this regard.  The movie literally has no (or very weak) build-up to this moment character-wise--it just happens because it happens in the source material and leads to the events of Griffiths imprisonment and the Hawks' exile.  A drunken barroom brawl would have made as much sense.  Griffith's dreams and ambitions aren't even hinted at let alone mentioned, which is shocking given the material covered.

Also, considering these are suppose to be self-contained features intended to generate box office on their own merits, they pretty much only get by on the action and the promise of "adult" content.  They're pretty much like an extended Republic serial in which any downtime is perfunctory exposition set up the next action set piece, more so the 2nd.  So they basically have spectacle and an epic scope to fall back on, but even on that level they aren't very noteworthy.  At the very best, the CGI is competent, but unremarkable and at worst, embarrassing.  There are noteworthy flourishes of high-quality presentation and animation there but it is highly inconsistent.  Comparing either of these movies even on this level to Akira is laughable considering Akira boasted some of the finest animation work in its day, rivaling the best of its contemporaries.  Even today, the level of detail in its animation is laudatory.

The action, which at this point seems to be the raison d'Ítre for this project's theatrical release, is also pretty standard.  It's okay on its own terms but mostly is rather basic hack-and-slash stuff and is pretty lacking in creativity (let alone the artistry, freshness, and level of detail of the manga's violence) once the novelty of decapitated faceless 3-D models wears off.  The attempts at mixing up the action with thrilling attacks and techniques is pretty out there.  After Boscone's tornado spin that looked like a Mortal Kombat finisher, I was half-expecting Guts to start killing people by punching them in the face and Pippin to show up with a cannon mounted to his back.

It would be a bit easier if these were intended as TV specials or OVAs made to generate a quick buck, but releasing it as a feature film puts it under more scrutiny.   At this point, the series has a generic B action movie look and feel to it, except it's trying to masquerade as a though-provoking and complex drama.  Sort of like the desires of the filmmakers to produce entertaining, junk food entertainment is at odds with the source material.  You'd think there would be good opportunity to include much of the manga's penchant for consistent doses of goofball humor, but the movies take themselves dead serious so much of the time (as Aazealh pointed out) that it seems the movies themselves are putting on a front to cover their own slapdash presentation.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Saephon on January 05, 2013, 07:08:05 AM
If there is one thing I learned a long time ago, especially for a book/comic being adapted to a film, you will always be disappointed.  


Until someone gives me a good enough reason for this, I will continue to complain and petition for better adaptations. At least in live action major motion pictures, it's understandable that mass market appeal is the end goal, so some changes revolve around that. But an anime OVA? Really?

9 times out of 10 I simply can't buy the "pacing" or "shortage of screentime" argument, because for every major plot element that's removed in an adaptation, there's a completely useless fanfiction one forced in. I guess the kinds of people in charge of these decisions just have no faith in an excellent story selling itself.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: BerserkFL on January 05, 2013, 09:50:20 AM
Why?

Obviously because we are fans.....that's why. Not like you have to see it cause it's so good, you have to see it just because. Regardless of any negative reviews posted here or our own indications the films would disappoint, has that stopped a single one of us from watching them?

Even those here disgusted by the first two films will watch the next one. It's just how it is and you know it. Name me a single forum member here that has refused to watch the movies. Everyone Berserk fan will watch them, they truly have to. Even if it's to watch them and tear them to shreds.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Griffith on January 05, 2013, 10:47:41 AM
If there is one thing I learned a long time ago, especially for a book/comic being adapted to a film, you will always be disappointed.

Et tu, Cronus? Anyway, the trick is to always see the movie first, alas... I guess I'll take this opportunity to engage your points and share some of my counters to these sentiments, sorry to pick on you.

The best you can do is judge the result on its own merit in its own context.

I'm going to hold you to this, though context is a little tricky because many of the limitations the filmmakers faced were ones they gave themselves with bad planning/decision-making from the outset. Far different than making the best of limitations imposed on them. That's just doing a bad job, so I don't think it's fair to give it a passing grade based on the fact that they set out to do something that couldn't be that good in the first place. It's like an essay where 20 pages are required to do the subject justice, but they decided to only do 5. That just made it all the more disappointing from the start.

So on that note, I just watched it.  I voted it as good, a little better than the first one overall.  The production team definitely stuck to what they could do well from the first and expanded it here.  The 100 man battle was great to see, the Doldrey battle was well done to me, and they hit most of the main plot points.

By what definition, 51%? I'm not even sure it reached that threshold if you consider everything that was removed, unless we adhere to their criteria of what's important: 100 Man Fight, Doldery, Ball, Duel, Sex and Aftermath. Basically everything not told through action doesn't count, and then there's the stuff removed from within those scenes, some of which was the actual point/emotional payoff of the scene, leaving us watching a lot of motion without action (at least it seemed to me). Off the top of my head they're missing Casca's and Griffith's respective back stories, along with Gennon's relationship to Griff, Casca's relationship to Griff, her's to Guts and the Bonfire of Dreams scene, which also contained Guts' true perspective relating to... well shit, one just rolls into the next, do I even need to get into the specifics of the assassination plots and everything else that in many cases were needlessly altered, dumbed down or dumped so we could have some added seconds of Griffith eating Charlotte out (in the words of Tim & Eric, "Good job!")? Anyway, there's a trend there, and I'll just say it doesn't strike me as objectively "good" on its merits as an adaptation to cut virtually all of the unique characterization beyond happy/sad/love/hate.

Obviously the manga is better, blah blah blah.

Think of how much better this could have been on its own terms. How much more of the source material it could have effectively integrated but didn't, and arbitrarily in many cases. I can imagine it being much, much better without even altering the run times. Despite the the self-imposed limitations they were working under, there's still plenty of obvious fat and wasted time/opportunities.

I feel they encapsulated key moments from the manga into 90 minutes quite well, and frankly most of the reviews here I very much disagree with.  (Including the EXCELLENT!!!!1 ones.)  I appreciate what they are doing with the material and I definitely can't wait for the 3rd one

Well, I obviously have to disagree with that for the reasons above. Unless by "encapsulated" you mean they've sealed many of the key scenes away. How about everything they didn't do? Why doesn't that count, because they didn't do it? 50% isn't a B, and I'm not even grading them by the manga but by what one reasonably could have expected from a pretty good adaptation. People are basically taking what we got as the high watermark and grading Studio 4C against their own work, like this isn't just all we got but somehow closely represents the best we could get this side of the manga, which doesn't make sense. I guess I could look at it from how much worse it could have been, like if Guts and the Falcons had been changed to Siberian huskies in a completely new story about dog sledding. Relative to something like that, what we got is a very faithful and good adaptation. A+ on that scale!

it will be extremely difficult to pull it off well I think, particularly in regards to Casca/Femto.  I'll be honest here - while I know that the rape is very integral to the plot in the manga the presentation is just too much for me and other people I have tried to get interested in the manga.

I know exactly what you mean, who you would or wouldn't show that scene to because of how they'd react to it, the series, and you for showing it to them, is definitely the ultimate litmus test of the series.

If the studio takes it in a different direction such as a 'less is more' route, it could be a vastly superior scene without the absurd exhibition.

Superior in what sense though? That it would make the rape more comfortable to watch, more palatable? I mean that in the least snotty way possible, obviously it's way over the top to the point of being disgusting and disturbing, but that is the point. I can't think of a more controversial scene in the series, risky too, with the reputation of the entire work hinging on how one takes it. So, while I don't enjoy looking at it any more than you do, that is a testament to its effectiveness, and I don't think lessening that effect would make it superior.

Disclaimer: Wasn't really talking in relation the movies here, just that scene in and of itself. They're obviously going to change it in the movie for the reasons you mentioned, accessibility, censorship, etc. Although, I'd like to mention that for me what Studio 4C is doing to Berserk in these movies is like watching Femto rape Casca for 90 minutes straight. FEEL MY PAIN, CRONUS!

I have shown the first film to a couple of people who were not familiar with the series, and it interested them enough to borrow some of my manga.  I feel that this movie does a good job of continuing that, and hopefully the third one will do the same along with it hopefully continuing.

"Wow.  In my mind, that's like your first time is getting an ass-pounding in prison." (http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=137.msg2631#msg2631)

Most of the Berserk fans hating on the films I think just hate that they're animating the Golden Age AGAIN and are examining it a bit too much.

Can we hate on the films for all the things they do poorly that they easily could have done better in the context of a film, let alone a long term project? Can Berserk fans be disappointed that instead of a great, or at least meticulous adaptation, which isn't impossible or unheard of in anime, we have to settle for the best Studio 4C can cram into arbitrary 90 minute chunks, which is highly questionable as it is? Can we be upset that they're sacrificing almost all the meaningful characterization that makes the series special in favor of emphasizing sex, violence, stupidity and reducing Berserk to its basest form? I don't think those beefs amount to nitpicking, over-examination or sour grapes, but fundamental disagreements with the overall purpose and execution of this project. Maybe some of the more forgiving types here that aren't paying much mind to that should try examining it a bit more. That's what we're here for.

-Griffith

P.S. Big old school staying-up-way-too-late-to-write post for you, Cronus.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Cronus on January 05, 2013, 03:26:10 PM
Hey all, I'll respond in this post - but if further discussion needs to happen maybe we should keep it out of the review thread?
Also, this looks like an Aaz post!  :guts:
And didn't do much else...  :void:
Which is fine - they got the main meat of the story in.  It moved fast but was otherwise there.
Quote
Really? Even moreso than the removal of the Griffith/boy soldier scene, Bonfire of Dreams, Queen Assassination, etc? That's surprising to me. Gennon was always a means to an end in the series. He's a vehicle to show how far Griffith will go. But he had some key scenes tangentially related to him, such as when Casca sees Griffith on the morning after. And that, of course, is missing, and missed. But I didn't feel that us  not seeing Griffith up on that balcony with Gennon's arm around him was a truly missed element. Afterall, in this version we get Gennon groping Griffith's thighs. That's something... right?
Bonfire of dreams is the only one I would agree with here - but only in the sense that it would have been a nice addition.  Otherwise, Casca early on in the forest asks Guts what he fights for, and before she leaves he says 'I'll think about what you asked me,' and there are several bits throughout that imply he is going to leave afterward. Ultimately the same point gets across despite the changes to the narrative and how it focuses pretty heavily on the Griffith speech.
Boy soldier scene and the Queen were largely inconsequential overall to me.
The Gennon scene should have had a little more setup prior to the fight I think is all to imply some sort of history, rather than it just coming out right before his death.  And Griffith made it crystal clear that he had been a means to an end anyway.

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As well as any emotional gravity whatsoever that they've failed to instill in the other members of the Falcons. Not to mention the time compression issues they're going to have with so much ground to cover. I think it will be miraculous if the movie comes across as coherent.

I do agree with the the part about the other members during the Eclipse.  Based on how this movie went though, Judeau won't get much, but ironically Carcus will probably get the best lines, animation, etc.  They do have what, another 40 minutes in the third movie?  They may pull it off.

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...You did see the Griffith/Charlotte scene in Movie 2, right? Expect full-on, Ali G-style "I Wanna See It ... Goin In" action for Femto's debut.

Yeah I am expecting this, but I maintain some hope!

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Honestly, if this same studio is going to attempt to animate other sequences in the series, I'd rather not have it at all. Having them animated as a novelty is worth utterly nothing to me. It has to represent the spirit of the series in order to it to matter. And so far this adaptation has merely been going through the motions.

Like I said previously, I think this is the crux for most fans - this is YET ANOTHER adaptation of material we have seen before.  If this were the first time this part of the story was being done, I really think people would give it more of a fair shake.

Et tu, Cronus? Anyway, the trick is to always see the movie first, alas... I guess I'll take this opportunity to engage your points and share some of my counters to these sentiments, sorry to pick on you.

BRING IT!  :daiba:

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I'm going to hold you to this, though context is a little tricky because many of the limitations the filmmakers faced were ones they gave themselves with bad planning/decision-making from the outset. Far different than making the best of limitations imposed on them. That's just doing a bad job, so I don't think it's fair to give it a passing grade based on the fact that they set out to do something that couldn't be that good in the first place. It's like an essay where 20 pages are required to do the subject justice, but they decided to only do 5. That just made it all the more disappointing from the start.

But 20 pages are not required to do it justice in my opinion.  Film/Animation is a totally different ballgame from drawing panels over years of practice and the author's affection in his characters.  I recognize that but by itself, I felt the movie was well done and carried the spirit over.

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By what definition, 51%? I'm not even sure it reached that threshold if you consider everything that was removed, unless we adhere to their criteria of what's important: 100 Man Fight, Doldery, Ball, Duel, Sex and Aftermath. Basically everything not told through action doesn't count, and then there's the stuff removed from within those scenes, some of which was the actual point/emotional payoff of the scene, leaving us watching a lot of motion without action (at least it seemed to me).

The action was definitely the main vehicle for the character development, I agree.  A different take but not done poorly.
Let's go over these and I'll explain my reasoning for said plot points:

100 Man Fight: Important in the movie for different reasons.  Instead of it being focused on Guts discovering his obsession with the sword, it became a catalyst for him leaving; he was tired of being Griffith's slave.  It also served as a basis for Guts/Casca's relationship to happen in the next film.  In the manga when they find him passed out, she wanted him to be alive so she wouldn't feel guilty about abandoning him while she ran; in the film it's complete relief that Guts is alive at all.  I think that is a marked difference.  Also, they even covered how Guts essentially gets into the zone anyway with his final bits of internal monologue so the fight was 'covered' in its most important aspects.

Doldrey: This played out almost entirely the same as the manga, the backstory of Gennon and his lust for Griffith just didn't make sense until his final moments.  Griffith ends the 100 year war, it's a big deal.  Zodd throwing the sword is not critical here AT ALL.  The Boscogne fight was good too, it definitely showed that he was pretty much an even match for Guts.  The flag throw wasn't nearly as bad as I had heard.  A little odd, but I think it shows how resourceful Guts is as a fighter and what sets him apart.  He also ended up using the same terrain advantage Griffith used in his strategy to take the castle (the dust) and thus win the fight.  Similarly, I enjoyed Casca's fight with Adon here.  Three different battles here, all relevant.  This is the best part of the movie.

The Ball: The Hawks come back and they're made nobles.  For pretty much everyone, everything they worked so hard on has come to this.  Guts/Casca chat further about his future and she realizes he is going to leave.  Guts realizes it's the best time to leave because to him, Griffith has actually achieved everything he set out to do.  Guts wants to be his friend and thus his equal.  The dance scenes were new but ultimately the message is conveyed that they have done it.  Guts/Casca have a dance for a little relief, you get to see a normally serious character kind of cut loose a bit.  I see this scene overall as more of a tragedy waiting to happen rather than the political drama it was in the manga.

The Duel: I can't really recall having any problems with the duel.  Other than a bit of missing internal dialogue from the manga, everything else was clear.  Casca's feelings are pretty clear at this point.

Bangfest 2012: Griffith, having lost control of what really got him where he was today, decided he needed to immediately control what was going to get him to his ultimate goal which was Charlotte.  It was more of a hate fuck, trying to prove he was still in control of something.  This scene got more air time because this is literally where the descent starts, and it merits having a bit more attention to it.  The aftermath is done well too.

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They're missing Casca's and Griffith's respective back stories
It's clear Griffith is a commoner who leads a special group.  That's all you really need to know.
Casca's story is missing now that I think about it, so good point there.  But I don't think it is a GLARING OMISSION from the movie.  It might come up in the next movie, though.
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along with Gennon's relationship to Griff
Well, it was touched on  :carcus:
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Casca's relationship to Griff, her's to Guts
Casca is pretty clear early on what she think of Griffith and what she wants.  During the ball scene, her jealousy is distinct.
Her's to Guts is still forming but it is pretty much all there.

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and the Bonfire of Dreams scene, which also contained Guts' true perspective relating to... well shit, one just rolls into the next, do I even need to get into the specifics of the assassination plots and everything else that in many cases were needlessly altered, dumbed down or dumped so we could have some added seconds of Griffith eating Charlotte out (in the words of Tim & Eric, "Good job!")? Anyway, there's a trend there, and I'll just say it doesn't strike me as objectively "good" on its merits as an adaptation to cut virtually all of the unique characterization beyond happy/sad/love/hate.

Those scenes by and large don't matter or don't warrant the time on screen to convey their point.

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Think of how much better this could have been on its own terms. How much more of the source material it could have effectively integrated but didn't, and arbitrarily in many cases. I can imagine it being much, much better without even altering the run times. Despite the the self-imposed limitations they were working under, there's still plenty of obvious fat and wasted time/opportunities.

I disagree.  I think they made choices to broaden the appeal of Berserk to people who had no prior knowledge of it.  Few people go to see a movie where there is a whole lot of political shit talking, and Berserk is marketed as a fantasy war movie.  They conveyed the story in a different way and within different constraints.  I for one am glad because who honestly wants to see every single detail put on the big screen exactly in the same way as Miura did it his books?  I cannot possibly see how they could have added everything people seem to collectively 'want' and not alter the run time significantly.  If I could pick one scene from the manga that I would have liked to see, it would be the bonfire of dreams.  Past that, not much else matters.

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Superior in what sense though? That it would make the rape more comfortable to watch, more palatable? I mean that in the least snotty way possible, obviously it's way over the top to the point of being disgusting and disturbing, but that is the point. I can't think of a more controversial scene in the series, risky too, with the reputation of the entire work hinging on how one takes it. So, while I don't enjoy looking at it any more than you do, that is a testament to its effectiveness, and I don't think lessening that effect would make it superior.

I guess what I mean is - I'd like it to focus more on Guts' reactions to what is happening and his fight to free himself to attempt to save her, and focus on Femto's glare of "I'm a GOD now, bitch!" rather than the total obscenity of Casca being pounded on.
But I think now that I basically am asking them to make the scene less graphic because I think it's already going to be off the charts even compared to the manga.  That was me just thinking out loud and considering how the third movie will be.

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FEEL MY PAIN, CRONUS!

REQUEST DENIED

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"Wow.  In my mind, that's like your first time is getting an ass-pounding in prison." (http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=137.msg2631#msg2631)

HAHA!  Don't judge me on posts I made literally 10 years ago here!  I was an angry youth!  :griffnotevil:

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Can we hate on the films for all the things they do poorly that they easily could have done better in the context of a film, let alone a long term project? Can Berserk fans be disappointed that instead of a great, or at least meticulous adaptation, which isn't impossible or unheard of in anime, we have to settle for the best Studio 4C can cram into arbitrary 90 minute chunks, which is highly questionable as it is? Can we be upset that they're sacrificing almost all the meaningful characterization that makes the series special in favor of emphasizing sex, violence, stupidity and reducing Berserk to its basest form? I don't think those beefs amount to nitpicking, over-examination or sour grapes, but fundamental disagreements with the overall purpose and execution of this project. Maybe some of the more forgiving types here that aren't paying much mind to that should try examining it a bit more. That's what we're here for.

Yeah, we can all do that.  I just think it is worth stepping back a minute and asking who this trilogy is for.  I feel if you're a diehard Berserk fan, these movies aren't really for you.
Whatever they do in the films and whatever your opinion of them, they do not affect or change the manga.  And if a person sees these movies and is impatient to know more, as many of us did when the TV series first came out, point them to the manga.

But this is ultimately about the movies themselves, and I feel like I was able to separate it from the manga and give it a fair shake, and I liked it.

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P.S. Big old school staying-up-way-too-late-to-write post for you, Cronus.

I'm honored! :ganishka:

This is a pretty big post, so if people want to talk about it further maybe it should be in PMs - I just want to make sure I'm not threadshitting.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Griffith on January 06, 2013, 01:00:40 AM
Also, this looks like an Aaz post!  :guts:

Be careful what you invoke! :magni:

(http://www.skullknight.net/griffith/aaznuke.jpg)

Like I said previously, I think this is the crux for most fans - this is YET ANOTHER adaptation of material we have seen before.  If this were the first time this part of the story was being done, I really think people would give it more of a fair shake.

You're implying that bias stops us from recognizing the true quality of this work, but what is that quality? Ok? Mediocre? The situation is quite easily reversed, you might not be giving it a "fair shake" yourself. If this wasn't called Berserk, I don't think it would be on any one of our top movie lists this year, animated or otherwise. I think it would be fair to dismiss it as another shitty anime (I don't know, maybe it's very high quality by today's standards). You're grading it on such a curve that it can basically do no wrong. I see the logic of loving what you have if you'll never get what you'd love, but... fuck. They could have done an AWESOME saga project, but that's largely a post for another day.

But 20 pages are not required to do it justice in my opinion.  Film/Animation is a totally different ballgame from drawing panels over years of practice and the author's affection in his characters.  I recognize that but by itself, I felt the movie was well done and carried the spirit over.

Again, I think you carried the spirit over and bestowed it upon your viewing experience. You're not missing anything from seeing the cliff notes version (apologies to the thoroughness of CliffsNotes) because you already know the whole thing and can automatically fill in the blanks, especially on the level of emotional satisfaction. Just seeing Guts on the screen carries a weight and meaning to us that it doesn't for a new viewer. If anything, as fans we're predisposed to be biased in it's favor.

Doldrey: This played out almost entirely the same as the manga, the backstory of Gennon and his lust for Griffith just didn't make sense until his final moments.  Griffith ends the 100 year war, it's a big deal.  Zodd throwing the sword is not critical here AT ALL.  The Boscogne fight was good too, it definitely showed that he was pretty much an even match for Guts.  The flag throw wasn't nearly as bad as I had heard.  A little odd, but I think it shows how resourceful Guts is as a fighter and what sets him apart.  He also ended up using the same terrain advantage Griffith used in his strategy to take the castle (the dust) and thus win the fight.  Similarly, I enjoyed Casca's fight with Adon here.  Three different battles here, all relevant.  This is the best part of the movie.

The Ball: The Hawks come back and they're made nobles.  For pretty much everyone, everything they worked so hard on has come to this.  Guts/Casca chat further about his future and she realizes he is going to leave.  Guts realizes it's the best time to leave because to him, Griffith has actually achieved everything he set out to do.  Guts wants to be his friend and thus his equal.  The dance scenes were new but ultimately the message is conveyed that they have done it.  Guts/Casca have a dance for a little relief, you get to see a normally serious character kind of cut loose a bit.  I see this scene overall as more of a tragedy waiting to happen rather than the political drama it was in the manga.

Aside from all the little tweaks and outright changes (some wholly unnecessary for time or anything else) is everyone's underlying motivations. That's how all these cuts bleed the life out of the story. Like we agree, it's Berserk the action story, but that's what makes me question the point of it all because you could get that anywhere; this might as well be anything. Doldrey may be the best part, but to be honest I found it rather tedious to watch. Continuing this theme with the ball, I don't see the point of watching stock characters that merely resemble Berserk characters, either for old fans that know better or new viewers that won't understand what's so special about them (I guess they're not supposed to be; depressing).

Bangfest 2012: Griffith, having lost control of what really got him where he was today, decided he needed to immediately control what was going to get him to his ultimate goal which was Charlotte.  It was more of a hate fuck, trying to prove he was still in control of something.  This scene got more air time because this is literally where the descent starts, and it merits having a bit more attention to it.

You sound like the producer at a Q&A or something. It doesn't merit special attention more than anything else, like half the stuff you've already dismissed as not important (such as Zodd's foreshadowing). Totally arbitrary, but it has to be rationalized because it's there. Boy, is it there! :isidro:

Casca's story is missing now that I think about it, so good point there.  But I don't think it is a GLARING OMISSION from the movie.

"Good point, but who cares?" Maybe it's not a glaring omission from Doldrey Fight Fuck Fest: The Movie, no, but from any self-respecting Berserk adaptation, it seems the very definition of a glaring omission. I mean, how is this not a very bad thing? Is it too much to ask of our Berserk adaption to adapt the female lead's background, the antagonist's, the main character's? (at least they were consistent; moments of blurry filtered video) I mean, if nothing is sacred, there can't very well be any glaring omissions, can there? This gets to the heart of my suspicion of your "fair shake," because this makes it seem like you're not giving it a fair shake, or shaking it at all, you're just giving it a pass.

Her's to Guts is still forming but it is pretty much all there.

Except for the half dozen scenes we've discussed and the accompanying feelings that aren't there; the foundation of their relationship. Now Guts and Casca are essentially paper dolls, together because their hands are attached; like everything else, because they're supposed to be. So much for Casca's past and present then, I hope at this point they just leave her future out too, do her a favor.

Those scenes by and large don't matter or don't warrant the time on screen to convey their point.

This hurts me, so a quick reminder of what matters and warrants more screen time...

(http://www.skullknight.net/griffith/griffuksig.jpg)
"...it merits having a bit more attention..."

I disagree. I think they made choices to broaden the appeal of Berserk to people who had no prior knowledge of it.  Few people go to see a movie where there is a whole lot of political shit talking, and Berserk is marketed as a fantasy war movie.  They conveyed the story in a different way and within different constraints.

Those concepts aren't mutually exclusive with successfully adapting it to film (nor were movies necessary, or even conducive, to successfully adapting it). It didn't hurt the now surprisingly faithful looking '97 TV series to include those things. Also, I don't see evidence that cutting it was necessary or ultimately worked for the films either. The film series' popularity doesn't seem to be exploding, eclipsing the manga or blowing the franchise up. So, they needlessly dumbed it down, and to no avail. They seemingly couldn't handle doing the big boy version, so they did one that would be for kids if it wasn't for the graphic content (I guess that = young adult). We're practically immune though because we know this story subconsciously.

I for one am glad because who honestly wants to see every single detail put on the big screen exactly in the same way as Miura did it his books?

Nobody, which is why that's always been a straw man. Who wants to see a really half-assed version? Again, it's worse than the '97 anime! The only plus is it's a quick watch.

I cannot possibly see how they could have added everything people seem to collectively 'want' and not alter the run time significantly.

Not just adding, there was plenty of potential addition by subtraction (of more needless additions like Eyepatch or the extended bangfest dubstep remix). Also, they essentially chose those run times and constraints, and even then they could have done a much better job tweaking things and better using the time they still somehow managed to waste. They basically set themselves up to fail, gave themselves no margin for error, then blundered forward, still making a lot of frustratingly baffling creative decisions in the process. Going to go out on a limb and call that a bad job by them.

It could have been worse, I found the rough cut of the film project as a single movie like the producers originally intended: Berserk: The Movie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdHGSXmOMqE#t=1m5s) :guts:

If I could pick one scene from the manga that I would have liked to see, it would be the bonfire of dreams.

Past that, not much else matters.

URRRRRRRRRRGGGHHHH!!!!
(http://www.skullknight.net/griffith/griffcumcross.jpg)
"...it merits having a bit more attention..."

HAHA!  Don't judge me on posts I made literally 10 years ago here!  I was an angry youth!  :griffnotevil:

On the contrary, that's a tribute to you, sir! Please, show these movies to that angry youth; he'll know even FF8 was better (even the dance scene =).

Yeah, we can all do that.  I just think it is worth stepping back a minute and asking who this trilogy is for.  I feel if you're a diehard Berserk fan, these movies aren't really for you.

Sounds like the Star Wars prequels (you don't like those now too, right? =) They're weren't for the people that liked the originals either, which makes a lot of sense (at least this is just an adaptation). BTW, you know what I like about this trilogy? That we have a Berserk Film Trilogy! Like LOTR or Star Wars!! :ubik: Or, when you actually watch it, more like The Hobbit, Star Wars* Prequels, or the Zombie vs. Ninja trilogy. I really like the existence of the Berserk Trilogy, but only when I'm not watching any of it. Seriously, I wasn't lying when I said I couldn't help but feel excited about this just before the credits rolled, even after disliking the first movie.

But this is ultimately about the movies themselves, and I feel like I was able to separate it from the manga and give it a fair shake, and I liked it.

That's the trick, but ultimately it's impossible. The manga is the source material, where the adaptation comes from and inherently the basis of comparison, so any judgement of it, even on its merits as what it is or could have been, has to at least take it into consideration. I was able to judge it on it's own too, I gave it the proverbial fair shake, and I didn't find it to be anything special or even very good. The positives (it's Berserk!) were far outweighed by the negatives (it's not Berserk...). I think it only gets positive recognition for being a Berserk adaptation, not for it's objective quality. Honestly, I think that's the only reason you like it, because it superficially tickles your Berserk fancy in an economical 90 minutes. Otherwise, our conversation would be, "What's that? I don't know. Who cares? It's drivel." Because minus the name and familiar elements we can reconcile in our minds as fans, that's what it is, drivel; and that's not giving Berserk a fair shake.

(http://www.skullknight.net/griffith/jerry.jpg)

-Griffith

P.S.

I'm honored! :ganishka:

Well, I hope you still feel that way. It's usually around the second giant quote post that it starts getting old. :griffnotevil:
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Walter on January 06, 2013, 06:22:59 PM
[The Bonfire of Dreams] Those scenes by and large don't matter or don't warrant the time on screen to convey their point.
This is just some serious bullshit, man. I'm floored.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: dasfdeas on January 06, 2013, 09:18:48 PM
I just want to jump in and say that I agree 100% with Griffith, but what we're seeing here is a new generation of fan in some ways.  I don't think anyone over 25 is going to argue that the anime of the 2000s on the whole was as good as the 80's and 90's, and people who have been conditioned by the stuff that has been released recently are more prone to accept this type of thing.  The Hellsing manga was adapted a second time, much like Berserk, but into OVAs that couldn't tell the entire story, and as a result rushed or outright skipped major plot points...and a lot of "fans" loved them for the supposedly great animation and because it was better than nothing.  Obviously, the Griffith/Charlotte sex scene tells you everything that you need to know, even though we may be loathe to admit it. 4c isn't doing anything out the ordinary, they're following this newer business model: Adapt a manga with a loyal fanbase in the cheapest way possible (very sketchy CG animation) and leave enough meat on the bone so they recognize it as that series while throwing in enough sex and mindless action so that the casual anime fan will give it a rental or purchase.  For the record, I think Berserk is a better manga than Hellsing and these movies are not as good as the Hellsing Ultimate OVAs.

The one positive thing that these films have done is make me realize how much I loved the Dreamcast game.  It recognized the story telling limits of its genre, and made the most of it while being a stand alone story someone unfamiliar with the manga could pick up and enjoy.  I actually was talking with someone about Dreamcast games recently, and they told me Sword of the Berserk was their favorite while having no idea it was ever based on a manga.  That's just not the type of reaction the average person will have to these movies, but they're par for the course in terms of recent anime adaptations.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Aazealh on January 06, 2013, 09:56:04 PM
4c isn't doing anything out the ordinary, they're following this newer business model: Adapt a manga with a loyal fanbase in the cheapest way possible (very sketchy CG animation) and leave enough meat on the bone so they recognize it as that series while throwing in enough sex and mindless action so that the casual anime fan will give it a rental or purchase.

Roderick made a good point earlier though: this isn't some cheap direct-to-video release. These are theatrical movies with a somewhat sizable marketing effort behind them, which makes their poor quality all the more damning. And I'm not sure they're making too much money either. I'm curious to know what the numbers are in fact, but that's a topic for another thread.

Also, to Cronus, I don't want to pile too much on top of what's already been said, but I'm pretty dismayed by what you've been saying here. I wonder if you didn't set out to like these movies no matter what, but even then honestly your comments would remain quite perplexing. Like I don't see how you could be bothered by Gennon's half-assed backstory while not minding how half-assed everything else was, like Guts and Casca's entire relationship becoming three and a half lines awkwardly sprinkled over the movie. Beyond the adaptation, those comments seem to reflect on your appreciation of Berserk as a story. And the "made for first time viewers" excuse doesn't work to me when you see all the inconsistencies they've created.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: DirectDK on January 07, 2013, 03:17:39 AM
Hey all.  Just wanted to share that today I had a Berserk movie marathon with some buddies of mine.  Incantation came too (see if you can spot him lol).  We watched movies 1 and 2 back to back.  Of the 11 of us, 5 of us have seen the '97 anime.  3 of us have read the manga.  And the other 6, this is their first Berserk experience.

:serpico: :guts: :slan:
(http://www.berserkstatues.com/skdotnet/berserk_marathon.jpg)

The nerd in me also made some movie tickets, required upon entry into my quarters. :griffnotevil:
(http://www.berserkstatues.com/skdotnet/berserk12_tix.jpg)

We had an awesome ass time.  Everyone here REALLY enjoyed the 2nd movie.  And there were a ton of vocal reactions throughout.  Either gasps or "holy shits" or laughs.  There was an incredible amount of laughter during the Gennon scenes, and a ton during the parade / ballroom scenes.  In a good way!  And when the movie was done, and that glimpse of movie 3 is shown at the end, all of them were like "WHAT????? When can we watch THAT?!"

I asked them all to rate the movie according to this poll.  Not counting me (you guys already know I voted "excellent"), there were 4 "excellent" and 6 "good".  One newcomer liked it so much he said he's going to start reading the manga tonight.

One had a lot of questions about Griffith's and Gennon's history.  Also, a few people were curious about the King's obsession with Charlotte.  I told them the gory and pervy details.  They all shrieked.  Lol.

Overall, it was a real fun time, and you better believe I'll be doing this again for movie 3! :serpico:

Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Nomad on January 07, 2013, 04:03:56 AM
Hey all.  Just wanted to share that today I had a Berserk movie marathon with some buddies of mine.  Incantation came too (see if you can spot him lol).  We watched movies 1 and 2 back to back.  Of the 11 of us, 5 of us have seen the '97 anime.  3 of us have read the manga.  And the other 6, this is their first Berserk experience.

That's pretty nice dude.  Looks like it was lots of fun so I'm glad you guys had a good time.  Though I think the anime is beyond bad, I truly am glad that someone enjoyed it.  At some point I'll dash in my two-cents once this third one comes out.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Walter on January 07, 2013, 04:17:44 AM
I asked them all to rate the movie according to this poll.  Not counting me (you guys already know I voted "excellent"), there were 4 "excellent" and 6 "good".
...
Overall, it was a real fun time, and you better believe I'll be doing this again for movie 3! :serpico:
What did you put in their drinks?  :troll:

Seriously though, I'm glad you guys had fun. I've hosted movie-themed parties too, but usually for things like The Room and Dead Alive. Always a good time. But ya know... surrounded by Berserk memorabilia, handed printed movie tickets, and in the company of friends, were any of them really going to tell you to your face: "Nah, man. Your movie night really sucked." ?
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Dar Klink on January 07, 2013, 05:26:43 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/K1zbf.jpg)

I found Incantation! What a trickster, wearing the Skully armor. :badbone:
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: IncantatioN on January 07, 2013, 06:14:19 AM
I found Incantation! What a trickster, wearing the Skully armor. :badbone:
Daahahahaha I WISH!! That's awesome, thanks :farnese:

(http://www.berserkstatues.com/skdotnet/berserk12_tix.jpg)
I'm sure the majority of us were ready to partake in sexual favors just so you could magically get us movie 3 tonight hah. Thanks for hosting and delaying the watching of the film so I could join'n'watch it with everyone.

I cast my vote as Good for good and bad things about this movie, not going to list all of it. The CG was less jarring this time around, not perfect. The music theme was actually present - flowing with the tone of the scene which I wasn't expecting after the lack of (good) music arrangement in the first movie (DirectDK's surround sound setup enhanced the listening experience). I'd only read Aazealh's review and could notice most points he mentioned and how the scene was subsequently changed because of it. It does set a different tone for the movie than what we read in the manga. I thought the swordplay was super fast, I'd personally like to re-watch the movie to get a better sense for the pace of the action sequences. There's a lot to comment on/ talk about.

What did you put in their drinks?  :troll:

Seriously though, I'm glad you guys had fun. I've hosted movie-themed parties too, but usually for things like The Room and Dead Alive. Always a good time. But ya know... surrounded by Berserk memorabilia, handed printed movie tickets, and in the company of friends, were any of them really going to tell you to your face: "Nah, man. Your movie night really sucked." ?
It was in those potato chips I got, I tell you haha! From what I could see, the group was vocal and animated while watching it, looked like they had fun with the 2nd one more than the 1st. One did ask about Gennon and they were a little mad when the movie ended because they wanted more of it. The guy who asked to borrow the manga was completely new to the series, not having watched the 97 anime, so that was encouraging. Most of them haven't read the manga, so they don't know what's taken out from the original story and took the movies for what they were. So for what these movies offer, they thought it was Good or Excellent or like one exclaimed jokingly Embarrassingly Excellent.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Oburi on January 07, 2013, 08:02:46 PM
Name me a single forum member here that has refused to watch the movies. Everyone Berserk fan will watch them, they truly have to. Even if it's to watch them and tear them to shreds.

I watched the first movie months ago and I have no desire to see any of the others. I didn't watch it to hate it either. I went in with an open mind and it just didn't do anything for me. So I can honestly say there's no temptation for me to ever watch more of these movies. It's just a byproduct of the manga which I love so much. But unlike the statues or other collectables, it's just not very good.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Death May Die on January 07, 2013, 10:43:09 PM
But this is ultimately about the movies themselves, and I feel like I was able to separate it from the manga and give it a fair shake, and I liked it.

Quote
The Bonfire of Dreams] Those scenes by and large don't matter or don't warrant the time on screen to convey their point.

Dude...

You're really reaching out there for the sake of these very stripped down anime movie adaptions. You think Berserk will be remembered by these new adaptions? Most of the people that I know who have seen it, instantly see its flaws. Not by comparison of the manga, but by comparison of the original anime. People know what is missing, and what should be there. Because they knew what scenes had impact, and what scenes stood out to them upon viewing the original anime. A lot of those scenes and moments are gone. Thats not even including how the original anime failed the manga in so many ways. Its pretty bad when you fuck up the reboot of a anime that was a bit sketchy itself. Now not trying to get over my head and say that these new adaptions are even a reboot of the original anime, if these new adaptions are a pure manga source adaption then it failed even more.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Griffith on January 08, 2013, 12:11:20 AM
I watched the first movie months ago and I have no desire to see any of the others. I didn't watch it to hate it either. I went in with an open mind and it just didn't do anything for me. So I can honestly say there's no temptation for me to ever watch more of these movies.

A better man than I. :azan:> (He's supposed to be saluting =)

Most of the people that I know who have seen it, instantly see its flaws. Not by comparison of the manga, but by comparison of the original anime. People know what is missing, and what should be there. Because they knew what scenes had impact, and what scenes stood out to them upon viewing the original anime. A lot of those scenes and moments are gone. Thats not even including how the original anime failed the manga in so many ways. Its pretty bad when you fuck up the reboot of a anime that was a bit sketchy itself. Now not trying to get over my head and say that these new adaptions are even a reboot of the original anime, if these new adaptions are a pure manga source adaption then it failed even more.

 :ubik:

At times it feels like such a poor man's version of the '97 anime that I think the only reason they didn't adapt the added Adon sequences was because they simply didn't have the time, just like anything else. Those scenes are probably on par with Casca's past or the Bonfire of Dreams to them (and Cronus, apparently :iva:) It was probably a close call between adapting that or Guts' departure from the Falcons; I mean, we could have just inferred he left by his absence and it would have been just as good. Hell, Miura could just whisper the ending of the manga in the project director's ear, Studio 4C can animate it into 20 minutes, and we'll watch it and be done with the whole series! You know the saying, "it's not the journey," or something.

Ok, I'm done now. :griffnotevil:
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: BerserkFL on January 09, 2013, 12:46:58 AM
Aazealh appears to have deleted my post where I said some praise for the new movies. Is that the kind of forum this place is? Get on the hate bandwagon or get out? This is what he had to say:

Quote
Wait, I thought your passion was reserved for the manga?

So how about you stop wasting people's time here with your non-opinions and maybe, I don't know, post about the latest episode or something? Thanks.

My non-opinions? My opinion is you can enjoy it if you take it for what it is and if never compared to the Manga in the first place you will be fine. Plus I like how my cousin's enjoying it means nothing to you guys cause if you think about it it's a good thing. I was introduced to the Manga via the original anime. Before that I never had read manga before. At the end of movie 3 I know my cousin't are going to want more and I'll be lending out my mangas to them I'm sure. They wouldn't have otherwise ever given them a read.

So there......the movies aren't all bad. In some ways they will introduce a new generation to the mangas just like the old anime introduced some of us.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Walter on January 09, 2013, 02:39:48 AM
Aazealh appears to have deleted my post where I said some praise for the new movies. Is that the kind of forum this place is? Get on the hate bandwagon or get out?
It had nothing to do with your opinion, and I'm pretty sure you know that. Your post was antagonizingly stupid, and garbage gets removed from time to time at our discretion. Deal with it or leave. Want to complain further? Send a PM.

PS: Welcome to SKnet.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: BerserkFL on January 09, 2013, 05:55:52 AM
Well with that I'm dipping out then. You guys are a bit more serious/intense than what I am used to at other forums. I've said my piece and it's likely I'll have good things to say about the next film, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to share those thoughts here  :magni:

One can only hear the removal of the bonfire of dreams complaint so many times LOL
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Aazealh on January 09, 2013, 07:50:58 AM
Aazealh appears to have deleted my post where I said some praise for the new movies.

Nice misrepresentation of what happened. You were being whiny and sassy, not actually saying any praise (or much else) on the movie at all but rather complaining once more that people dared "take it seriously" or disagree with you while you were so cool and detached, etc. Same BS you've been spewing for 2 pages now, and derailing the thread in the process after DirectDK and IncantatioN had brought it back on track.

Well with that I'm dipping out then. You guys are a bit more serious/intense than what I am used to at other forums.

"I might appear new here but I've been visiting this forum for god, has it been 5 years or longer now? Hell could be 10 years I've lost track."
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Griffith on January 10, 2013, 02:43:40 AM
"I might appear new here but I've been visiting this forum for god, has it been 5 years or longer now? Hell could be 10 years I've lost track."

Yeah, such an obvious phony. How dare this weasel impugn SK.net's honor!? :badbone: Since BerserkFL likes making public administrative action, for full disclosure here's the thoughtful defense of the film that he got so self-righteous over:

Quote
What do you mean you guys enjoyed it? Haven't you been reading this thread? Movies are garbage and deserve no praise. My cousins enjoyed it but that matters very little to everyone so you and your friends enjoying it is wrong too.

I'm kidding of course. For what they are they are enjoyable films. As a fan of the manga and original anime it's certainly ok to enjoy these movies. Regardless of what other tell you here  :slan:

Yup, that's it, BerserkFL's "post where [he] said some praise for the new movies." Though, this doesn't quite do it justice, because this masterful prose followed a quote of DirectDK's post IN FULL, picture and everything, no reformatting or editing whatsoever, just a duplicate followed by those two lines to form a gigantic eyesore of a shitpost that hit all the marks: no new thought, no contribution, ugly, repetitive, divergent, irrelevant, petulant, trolling, etc etc (and it even managed to create a pseudo double-post =). Also, he wasn't kidding of course, the real point of his post was so transparently not about the movies or even DirectDK's and his friends enjoyment of them, but whining about his cousins and his nonsense getting shut down. It's not out of bounds for bad posts like that to be deleted and the poster told to try harder, but his reaction was.

Judging from BerserkFL's generous description of his own work after the fact, he didn't expect anyone to actually see it; thus, his disingenuous attempt to make himself look like a victim instead of someone that can't understand why Berserk fans would rather have a good adaptation of the series than crap viewing for his cousins. Though, it's the implied attack on our integrity that compels me to write this, because if one does read this thread, they'd see plenty of defense for the film, that's challenged and debated, not deleted. I guess that's what was too "serious/intense" for BerserkFL to handle, culminating in this sorry final act.

One can only hear the removal of the bonfire of dreams complaint so many times LOL

A fitting epitaph for the manga's biggest fake fan. :schierke:

Anyway, can't wait for his cousins to start shitposting the forums, then I'll REALLY see the value of the films! (http://www.skullknight.net/images/gutsbarf.gif)
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: jackson_hurley on January 10, 2013, 04:36:40 AM
where is the like button here?! :guts:

nice post grif :)

btw i saw part 2 i'll try to write my comments on it soon
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Lara Skadi on January 10, 2013, 05:42:50 PM
I voted for so-so, but I'm really not sure if poor wasn't the best option. I don't know if it's resignation, or numbness on my part after the utter disappointment the first film was, but I liked this one better. I know, I really tried not getting my hopes up from the start, and I thought I managed to for a while, but after you're sitting there with your expensive bluray and gorgeous cover there's no way you can not wish for the best :( It's Berserk afterall..

Anyway, the second one flowed better, I think, and the animation and soundtrack were better too. The imagery sometimes was gorgeous (like in Doldrey battle), and that's when you truly see they had so much potential and could have made it SO much better... but didn't. Apparently, the person(s) behind the decisions has as much sensibility as a cactus. It's obvious they didn't get what it was all about, or didn't care, when the very things they changed or cut out were the things that gave the events any kind of soul. Hell, Berserk is NOT about some badass guy with a friggin' huge sword and all the different things he cuts through and a bishonen evil guy that doesn't care about no-one and the rest is all filler. But I guess that if that's true even to some "fans", that may be so to them as well. It's just... downright sad that it had to be like that.

But overall, the movie didn't anger me as much as the first one and once you tried not to think of the manga, it was kinda neutral. Like those (hollow) movies you watch just because you're there, already watching TV, and you forget about later. But also, it's difficult to forget the manga when you have to fill in the plot holes yourself with the knowledge you have and after that it's impossible again to not make the comparison. There's no way to ignore the absence of Bonfire of Dreams, Guts talk with Judo and Carcus before leaving, Judo telling Casca that Griffith said he needed her and Guts on the Hawks, the background for Casca and Griffith and Guts understanding of it, the conspiracy plot, Griffith asking Guts if he though he was a cruel person and Guts unknowingly contributing for the line of though that led to Griffith's decision to sacrifice afterwards... the list goes on and one and the consequence of taking these things out is so overwhelming for me, that I believe they just decided it'd be simpler to remove everything.

And have Griffith on the rescue party after the hundred man battle, acting like a stunt and not reacting at all towards Guts. And have Casca on that very scene cry on him like she did on those two other important scenes that won't be on the movies - Griffith "back to life" and Guts alive after Wyald.

And have Guts and Casca dance on the ball, because let's face it, they'd totally do that. (I groaned and facepalmed throughout the entire scene. I honestly couldn't watch it). Same with Gennon's boys - who wouldn't be happy serving an old noble in his gay harem? Perhaps children that were enslaved, like they were supposed to be?


 :mozgus:


PS: Yeah, I know, I started saying it didn't bother me as much as the first one, and ended hating it. That's what I get from falling out of numbness again  :judo:
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Tama on January 10, 2013, 06:27:09 PM
The more I think about these two movies, the more I can see what they were going for is being flashy. As others have pointed out, the producers seem to exaggerate many scenes and emotions of the characters so it looks over the top. I can visualze them in the script writing phase, and someone mentioning "this manga scene was okay... but we need to make it bigger! Better! We need to wow them!". Maybe I'm the only one that sees this but it made me a little queasy when I watched them.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: SeedofKings on January 13, 2013, 08:08:19 PM
May have been their intent, but they just made everything...less flashy, and very confusing, especially for people who are new to the Berserk fandom. I was hoping to use the Berserk films to introduce my friends and family to the work...yeeesh.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Griffith on January 14, 2013, 06:05:42 AM
Well, I've had a coupler of beers and at least three glasses of champagne, so now that I'm in the same frame of my mind in which I wrote them it's time to finally transcribe MY NOTES in situ. I've tried to translate these as exactly as possible to the original written word in spelling and formatting. The spaces indicate page breaks in my little note pad, and edits for clarification are in brackets []. Consider this like a running diary form of live review, or even stream of consciousness poetry about the film. Even I don't know what some of it means at this point, but for the most part it's "pretty self-exploratory." I guess this is also officially my written review. Enjoy. :griffnotevil:

Looks better
more muted colors
better monitor
Still some game-i-ness
Thick lines
Guts terminator 2 entrance
Hawks look weird
Wearing white?
Background, gorgeous
11 min - Guts Gross Face

miLe L|/d (nice bird)
Added violence
                 Casca attack
Spaghetti western
impalement impossible
Guts gross again
guitar music - familiar
WTF!? FLASHBACK!?
Shittioer/gamier
tongue dude
casca badass/then helpless

Doldery, like lego
Berserk game
Looks like shit!
Raban looks good
LOL Gennon's GriffixL
clones! Attack of the clones
Berserk fight scenes
characters cut
Boscone looks like a
polished turd

Gennon is bad cuz
he's a fag
2nd man pirate
Some shots nice
Rhino Flag, Gennon
mask lol
Griff looks good
Fight starts good
looks good

Charlotte? huh? WTF
Guts/Boscone = awesome
G Casca raid Really
dumbed down
Boscone/guts cotners
to look good
Casca/Adon get
the B budget

eyepatch guy
my favorate
character, RIP
Adon dying is
a good thing, in
as many ways
possible
Doesn't [Guts] doesn't
need flags...
Or Zodd apparently

Those flags were
put up fast!
hundreds!
Aftermath longshot
glorious.
when gennon goes dam
Random dead chick
ass, dead servants
Return of the guaanfdgfdg [guard model]

Corkus k mackin
on his horse.
Serpico and
Farnese! Fan
service saiccessful!
Guts and casca
actually talk!
I assume this
          (bonfire of dreams)
scene and fire/combined

Charlotte claps
has man hands.
Guts' look stuck.
Glad they worked
in the new
dance montage, like
the one from
ROTJ SE. Seeing
Caca and guts dance
was cute (FFVII)

Wow, no assassiration
new homeless dude
going through the
motions/actions
Dance to this
makes no sense
Corkus rant
lengthened? Griff's
coat infused with
gold? Goldfinger?

Remember when
we were worried
about clothes being
wrong? Or when
it was debated
what made a
good adaptation?
Instant flashback!
Guts harmed hair
on his head

BLOWWWWWW
Old lady: "Don't
fuck Griff tonight!"
Griffith, emo
window raper
Griffith makeout
out of tim and
eric. Kung fu
nipple grip. No

No ambiguity
here, Charlotte
kinky. Added
titsucking and
fingerbanging.
WOW! Moment
of penetration/
janai remix!
to beat

Art porn!
I reacted like
the maid
embarassing
WOW!
Charlotte/Griff
cum cross

Added ass
Casca senses
fucking LOL
Griffith Eceyt [caught]
by lego guard
models!

Pippin ear
twitch yell
music shit
magic.
Lego Model
Revenge. King
whipping, no context

This actually
effective!
Hey! It's
the real
torturer! It
was all worth
it!

Berserk:
Faithful Torturer
Project.
Puck scene
like out of
Simpsons fam [fan]
service.

Movie 3: trailer
more embarassing
Sex Scenes.
I like the
credits music.
Familiar, either
from last OST or
                       stolen

Then turned
to generic
Shit!
Berserk
film partners
KILL!

you know how
watching sex
scenes with
family is
embarrassing? th
This was like
watching it with
Miura. Literally hs [his]
work being Aucked [fucked].
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: SuperVegetto on January 14, 2013, 12:33:46 PM
That is one of the most hilarious posts I've read in the internet
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: arrowchild on January 14, 2013, 03:42:32 PM
Griffith, you are now my hero!  :serpico:  That was awesome!
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: dasfdeas on January 14, 2013, 05:55:20 PM
You know, the thing that I hate about this, is that a lot of people found Berserk through the Dreamcast game and the 97 anime.  It led to the series gaining a real U.S. presence, and BSOM and SK.net took off after that.  I really wanted to become active in the fan community again because of the films (I thought they would bring a torrent of new fans) and the fact that we're on the home stretch of the series, but I just don't see these films exposing a new generation of fans to the manga.  Anyone who likes them is, by and large, probably not going to invest their time into a 36+ volume series and just wait for another movie/tv series.  I think this was probably the last gasp for a Berserk anime, and I hate to write an obituary when we're only 2 films in.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: BerserkMJM on January 14, 2013, 06:27:12 PM
The manga will still be here for those of us who do read it. People are drawn to manga for a lot of different reasons also. And Berserk has consistently represented itself among the best. So it's bound to draw future readers as long as the format is sought after in general. It doesn't need an adaptation to hold a steady following.

It would have been a nice boost, but oh well.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: frankencowx on January 14, 2013, 06:39:59 PM
Berserk:
Faithful Torturer
Project.
Puck scene
like out of
Simpsons fam [fan]
service.

awesome  :ganishka:
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Griifisu on January 17, 2013, 01:38:37 PM
Finally sat down to watch it today and couldn't get past the first twenty minutes. The CGI is that cringeworthy. Distracting, too - I felt like I was watching a poorly-processed video game port.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: IncantatioN on January 17, 2013, 01:47:21 PM
The CG on 1 was not as good as 2. So if you couldn't get past the first 20 minutes of movie 2, I ask if you've watched movie 1.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Griifisu on January 17, 2013, 03:18:37 PM
The CG on 1 was not as good as 2. So if you couldn't get past the first 20 minutes of movie 2, I ask if you've watched movie 1.

Nope! ;) Now I'm morbidly curious.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: KuraiDragoon on January 17, 2013, 04:03:49 PM
Here's the thing I found about the cg: watching it on my computer via clips and trailers, it looks pretty bad, terrible in some spots. But watching it on my tv, from a normal distance, it looked fine, great in fact. The cg was barely noticable.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: puppet12ca on January 17, 2013, 05:59:06 PM
Here's the thing I found about the cg: watching it on my computer via clips and trailers, it looks pretty bad, terrible in some spots. But watching it on my tv, from a normal distance, it looked fine, great in fact. The cg was barely noticable.

I would honestly have to agree I found the first film a lot more watchable when the copy I ordered finally arrived so as a result I'm not gonna make any final opinions until After I acquire and watch a hard copy of every movie they release in this project
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Walter on January 21, 2013, 02:41:41 PM
Here's a review: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs61eXFc4Gc

He seemed to really like it. Could he be the primary demographic?
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: frankencowx on January 21, 2013, 03:38:32 PM
Here's a review: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs61eXFc4Gc

He seemed to really like it. Could he be the primary demographic?

Favorite quotes:

"shit gets crazy"

and

"do dese sex moves to my bitches"

but yeah, not a good review.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Nomad on January 21, 2013, 05:27:36 PM
Here's a review: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs61eXFc4Gc

He seemed to really like it. Could he be the primary demographic?
I see huge potential for that Comic Con dating show.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: BerserkMJM on January 21, 2013, 06:06:30 PM
Here's a review: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs61eXFc4Gc

He seemed to really like it. Could he be the primary demographic?
I want a transcript. :troll:

At least we know the sex scene wasn't a complete waste now.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Walter on January 21, 2013, 07:21:15 PM
I want a transcript. :troll:
BERSERK GOLDEN AGE ARC II: THE BATTLE FOR DOLDREY REVIEW! (MANLY!) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs61eXFc4Gc)
By ThePhone999, as transcribed by Walter

(http://skullknight.net/images/berserk fan.jpg)
Ooouhhh whoa whoa, people guess who has two thumbs and seen the Berserk Golden Age Part II: Battle for Doldrey movie, subbed, finally? Uhhhhh, thiss guy. Yes, I did. Yes, I fuckin' did. And I'm going to tell you, this movie is better than the first one, because of where this movie takes placeóa lot of action, a lot of blood. A lot of people get cut in half. It's fuckin' Berserk. Let's fuckin' go!

We have Guts versus Adon's soldiers, and when I tell you, to see Guts taking out 100 soldiers by himself, it was glorious. To see that in this movie, it was amazing. To see Guts go rampaging, like ahhhh, die, me Casca (?), woahhh, is that an arrow in my hand? Fuck it ahhhh, diieee. It was amazing. It was manly. Respect that man, Guts. He's a fucking  beast of a character. Ohh. Oh!

A lot of shit was going down in this movie. You got the battle for Castle Doldrey in this movie. Something happen to Casca, you have to see the movie to find out people, you know I can't tell you these things, man. You got to see the movie. Guts saves Casca, and you start to see Casca and Guts relationship start to connect, start to grow. As the movie progress, their relationship grows. It's bout to burst any second.

(http://skullknight.net/images/berserk fan2.jpg)
And in this movie we learn a little more about Casca, why Casca loves Griffith, why Casca wants to be Griffith's sword. And from the first movie what Griffith said about friends, friends are people who are equal to him,and you know, they have their own dreams and not followers. What he said was fucked up, but it was the fuckin' truth, it was factual. And in this movie Guts was thinking about like, "Yo, like I ummmm. I want Griffith to see I'm his equal. I have dreams. I like, uhh, I want to do something for myself too. I don't want to be a follower, like, you know, what do I want?" And Casca in this movie questions Guts, like, "Yo, do you have dreams, do you have goals, what do you want in life?" pretty much.

And we see the Band of Hawks move up. We see Griffith getting closer to his dream of having his own kingdom and you know, shit gets crazy the battle for Castle Doldrey, the king there, they mention him, because Griffith talks to the king, his  name Gennon. And they mention it but Griffith, like I said would do anything to have his own kingdom. He did some THANGS with the KING you know wh'm sayin? Uohh Griffith, you a crazy motherfucker. You got the purple rhino soldiers, it was crazy. It was a lot of battles. A lot of fights. It was good. I was hoping in this movie to see more about Guts past. I was hoping they would go into Guts' past. But again, I was hoping to see to get to know about Guts' past. You get to see Guts get the nickname 100 man slayer. You know, you see Guts and Griffith they clash toward the end, and Griffith's shit just crumbled because of what Guts did, and you know... You see Griffith get down and dirty in the  bed with the princeeeesssss.

(http://skullknight.net/images/berserk fan6.jpg) (http://skullknight.net/images/berserk%20fanbig.jpg)
I am going to tell you, when that shit happened, I was like, "Yo, let me write down these sex moves so I can do this shit on my bitches. You know wh'm sayin? Do these sex moves on  my bitches. You know wh'm sayin? Call that shit the Griffith." You feels me? Call that shit the Griffith, man. Hmmmmm.

But anyways, the  movie is better than the first one. Each one is going to be better than the last one, man. The 2D animation is amazing. It's really nice. The 3D animation, it's the same from the first one. I thought they'd improve it, and do you know better things from the first one, but they kept it the same, pretty much. And, you know, also, Puck makes an appearance in this movie. People if you know Berserk, if you've read the manga, you know who Puck is. He is in the movie, he makes an appearance in the movie. So yeah, I was like, yo yo.

The third one, you know, this movie ends off yo where shit's about to go down. Like, when the third movie comes out, The Descent. God Hand, the sacrifice, the esper tales like (?), it's going to be unreal people. I cannot wait for the third movie, it's going to be total mind fucks.

(http://skullknight.net/images/berserk fan7.jpg)
But Berserk, Golden Age Arc II: Battle for Doldrey. It was really great. We learn about Casca, we learn more about Guts and what does he want. Does Guts have dreams, does he have goals? You know. He wants to be equal to like, Griffith. He wants Griffith to see like, "Yo, I'm your equal. I'm not your little pebble in the fucking pond." Like, nah. It's not going to happen.
But yeah people, watch the movie. It's better than the first one. Okay? Yeah. Better than the first one. Yessss.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Lukis on January 21, 2013, 07:34:58 PM
I watched his review and laughed ..so much nonsense,I dunno on what drugs,but he definetly had verbal diarrhea about Berserk. This is what hype does to people.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: mazinken on January 21, 2013, 08:00:14 PM
Now that how you promote a movie  :troll:

He actually learned a lot of stuff by watching the movie :slan:
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: arrowchild on January 21, 2013, 08:15:22 PM
 :serpico:

It might be the fever/flu that I have right now talking, but I have an overwhelming urge to loop the "You see Griffith get down and dirty in the  bed with the princeeeesssss" bit.     

Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: jackson_hurley on January 21, 2013, 08:57:24 PM
well then you guys should try and watch his video about the third movie! i spotted it a couple months ago when the trailer for descent got out. Good stuff I must say...  :carcus:

edit : for your pleasure : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbLjGqPUKXw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbLjGqPUKXw)
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: smogas on January 21, 2013, 09:06:38 PM
me Casca (?),
I think it's "leave Casca alone".
You can't take this review seriously but regardless its amazing.  :ganishka: :ganishka:
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: mazinken on January 21, 2013, 09:37:18 PM
well then you guys should try and watch his video about the third movie! i spotted it a couple months ago when the trailer for descent got out. Good stuff I must say...  :carcus:

edit : for your pleasure : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbLjGqPUKXw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbLjGqPUKXw)

 :ganishka: you herd the man we ain't ready for this s*** in the other hand I have a feeling that he is a comedian and he is doing a good job.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: BerserkMJM on January 22, 2013, 07:26:27 AM
BERSERK GOLDEN AGE ARC II: THE BATTLE FOR DOLDREY REVIEW! (MANLY!) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs61eXFc4Gc)
By ThePhone999, as transcribed by Walter
*snip*
That was incredible. Thanks for doing that. Wow.

well then you guys should try and watch his video about the third movie! i spotted it a couple months ago when the trailer for descent got out. Good stuff I must say...  :carcus:

edit : for your pleasure : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbLjGqPUKXw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbLjGqPUKXw)
At least he's telling people to read the manga in the comments section. That's a plus.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: jackson_hurley on January 22, 2013, 12:10:30 PM
That was incredible. Thanks for doing that. Wow.
At least he's telling people to read the manga in the comments section. That's a plus.

Oh yeah that's for sure. The guy likes the stuff, that's allright with me. He's just a bit too excited haha  :guts:
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Drakull on January 25, 2013, 08:11:34 AM
Just saw it

From far, it is better than first movie, scenario is better and drawing are more equable (I only noticed one scene with a lazy drawing )

To see Doldrey Battle this way is amazing

Of course it does not have the same charm as the previous serie, old fans will always prefer old one. But things change and I can't wait to see the third one...and to know if there will be a fourth one ...

voted "Excellent" !
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Hanma_Baki on January 25, 2013, 11:00:56 PM
Just saw it
Thought you were talking about that review first :ganishka:

(I only noticed one scene with a lazy drawing )
I bet this is Aaz´s favorite line :troll:
Sorry dude, just f*****g around
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: GoHF on February 05, 2013, 09:54:33 PM
The movie was... ok. The animation is a bit weird, in that a scene can look shabby despite being strictly composed of high quality elements (the armor is usually to notch). I can't really put my finger on it, although one of the things that gets to me the most is the color fill on the characters' faces. So... bland and monochromatic.

Story-wise, it's pretty faithful to the manga, although the missing kushan horsecutter rustled my jimmies to no end, as did some other artistic liberties taken by the studio.
The voice acting is competent, the sound effects are... passable and the music is good.
Overall, it was good enough to entertain a berserk fan for a couple viewings, and likely a couple more in the future.

I guess the industry is feeling the crunch right now, but I'll be honest in saying I expected these movies to receive the kind of gloss treatment GitS2 got - although that's strictly my fault for having unfounded expectations. I just wish the character animation was less "meh" at times, and the sound department was less "did they really just recycle the same stabbing sound used in every anime since the 70's". Here's hoping the third can deliver properly on the gory side of things.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: pirkaf 2000 on February 12, 2013, 01:40:49 PM
cutting original berserk content, and adding new unnecessary scenes is a slap in the face for every true berserk fan. bonfire of dreams for that cheesy, pathetic ball room scene, removing zodd and so on... disaster.

poor.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: KuraiDragoon on February 12, 2013, 02:38:26 PM
I'm beginning to wonder if the reason they cut Zodd from the Boscone fight is this: The scene of Guts and Griffiths duel from movie 2 seems to have been animated very early on, as it's final form was shown in some early on trailers. Like maybe they animated it early just to put it into trailers. Then shortly afterwards they had an "oh shit" moment when they realized that Guts' sword is supposed to break before then and he should have had a different sword in that scene. Then they were so lazy, that instead of redoing a scene that they had already completed, they just didn't include his sword breaking in the Boscone fight. I just can't think of any other reason they would substitute Zodd for a flag toss, it's the most pointless, unreasonable change they made.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Aazealh on February 12, 2013, 03:37:34 PM
I'm beginning to wonder if the reason they cut Zodd from the Boscone fight is this: The scene of Guts and Griffiths duel from movie 2 seems to have been animated very early on, as it's final form was shown in some early on trailers. Like maybe they animated it early just to put it into trailers. Then shortly afterwards they had an "oh shit" moment when they realized that Guts' sword is supposed to break before then and he should have had a different sword in that scene. Then they were so lazy, that instead of redoing a scene that they had already completed, they just didn't include his sword breaking in the Boscone fight. I just can't think of any other reason they would substitute Zodd for a flag toss, it's the most pointless, unreasonable change they made.

I don't think it's plausible. They could have re-drawn the sword, and barring that, they could have used the same sword model and passed it off as Guts just having the same sword re-forged. Much less of an effort (and much less of an affront to the fans) than to come up with this awkward flag business.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: IcePuck on June 10, 2013, 12:09:07 PM
A little late for the party, but I finally saw the second movie. It was good. As someone who just barely enjoyed the first one, I was actually impressed by how much they improved in this movie. The music was good (it sometimes felt out of place and was woefully generic in the first one) and the animation didn't bother me, except in the Casca flashback. (Whoever decided severely lagging video game look was a great stylistic choice ought to get flogged. ;)) The pacing was good, the atmosphere was gripping throughout, action was entertaining to watch and the bloody deaths were hilarious. It felt more tongue-in-cheek than the manga; an added dash of Army of Darkness, which worked. The movie hit most notes from the manga storywise too, despite leaving out a few great scenes.

That's the one thing that pissed me off. The bonfire of dreams, Zodd and the second assassination plot should have been there. Some of the changes they made were also urk-worthy, such as Casca falling for Adon's Look-Behind-You! trick like an imbecillic 3-year-old, or the immersion-breaking cameos by Farnese & friends.

8/10

With this, I am quite excited to see the third part soon. Here's to hoping it will be better yet. *wags feather*
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Walter on June 10, 2013, 12:13:23 PM
That's the one thing that pissed me off. The bonfire of dreams, Zodd and the second assassination plot should have been there. Some of the changes they made were also urk-worthy, such as Casca falling for Adon's Look-Behind-You! trick like an imbecillic 3-year-old, or the immersion-breaking cameos by Farnese & friends.

8/10
....What.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Aazealh on June 10, 2013, 01:50:52 PM
It felt more tongue-in-cheek than the manga; an added dash of Army of Darkness, which worked.

I think you just imagined that. On the contrary, I found that the movie severely lacked humor compared to the manga.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: SuperVegetto on July 08, 2013, 02:36:16 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVvPwn45-3A

0:41 kinda reminds me of something...

From where I got this link people were saying Studio C'4 has part on this one too
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Walter on July 08, 2013, 02:50:23 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVvPwn45-3A

0:41 kinda reminds me of something...
Similar, but I'm sure it's not the first time such a perspective has been used before.

Quote
From where I got this link people were saying Studio C'4 has part on this one too
Doesn't seem like it. It's not mentioned on their projects page, or their Anime Expo 2013 information: http://studio4c.jugem.jp/
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Sword on August 18, 2013, 10:49:59 PM
I suppose I'll edit this later for a larger review.

I just saw this movie and I just have to say, this was the biggest turd slap in the face of all the fans of the manga and the anime.

When the Berserk Dreamcast game has better graphics (and faces) than the shitty CGI in this... well, you begin to wonder where the budget went.

The omissions are glaring, the characters aren't even the characters. This is a fanfiction rewrite of an obsessed fan who thinks they can retell it better than Kentaro. What is so fucking hard about Berserk that they waste so much of the movie on pointless melodrama and sex scenes instead of ACTUAL drama? Where are the hints of things to come? Why is Griffith painted as this unblemished prick who would abandon his military campaign to lead a search party?

This is Yaoi fangirl shit with Griffith thinking about Guts again and again with Charlotte, almost as if he's trying to fuck Guts as he leaves in his mind.


Who wrote the adaptation for this shit?

I give it the lowest score I can.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: puppet12ca on August 22, 2013, 02:49:37 AM
review of thew second film blu-ray release by ANN

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/review/berserk/the-golden-age-arc-ii/blu-ray-the-battle-for-doldrey

I can agree with lot of what is in here one thing I noticed though was that the author mentions an outtake real. This was not present as far as I can remember on the DVD I received in the mail if anybody ordered the blu-ray can they confirm or deny the existence of this outtake real
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Deci on August 22, 2013, 06:59:37 PM
Did anyone else notice how quiet the voices are in the dubbed version? I found that technically frustrating. Like in a lot of big blockbuster action movies, they want you to have to turn the volume way up to hear the dialogue so that when the action hits it's deafening. Ugh.

I'm really just posting this out of boredom and frustration, because after I received the Viz first-print edition in the mail and tried to watch it dubbed for the first time, it honestly couldn't hold my attention all the way to the end. I forced myself to watch up to the ball scene, because I had a sneaking suspicion they combined some of the dialogue between Casca and Guts from the Bonfire of Dreams into their conversation on the balcony outside the ball. That was all I was really hoping for, and they didn't deliver as far as I could tell.

Enjoyed it more in Japanese with no subtitles so I could pretend they were at least mashing scenes together and more of the story was being told than was being shown. I was wrong of course.

As a side note, a friend was in the other room when I went to put it in for a second time for another friend of mine. I mean it's Berserk I figure, and if you've read the manga and seen the '97 TV series, it's debatabley worth a watch for that reason I guess. The friend in the other room who hadn't read the manga or watched the series just casually said, "Eh, I saw the first one."

I think that attitude sums of this Trilogy pretty well. Disappointingly non interested.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Hanma_Baki on August 22, 2013, 10:15:37 PM
Quote
with no subtitles so I could pretend they were at least mashing scenes together and more of the story was being told than was being shown.
Thats basically how Iīve been watching all of them. Its probably the way to go in order to get the least disappointed.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Selwyn on March 12, 2014, 12:24:50 PM
A bit of a necropost, but what the hell. I really enjoyed the second 'Golden Age Arc' -movie, mainly because the scenes like "Guts vs. 100 soldiers" and the battle with Boscogne. It's strange how it didn't bother me that Zodd never appeared during the fight, like he did in the original TV-series. It worked out just fine, in my opinion. :guts:
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Doc on March 12, 2014, 01:02:45 PM
A bit of a necropost, but what the hell. I really enjoyed the second 'Golden Age Arc' -movie, mainly because the scenes like "Guts vs. 100 soldiers" and the battle with Boscogne. It's strange how it didn't bother me that Zodd never appeared during the fight, like he did in the original TV-series. It worked out just fine, in my opinion. :guts:

Nevertheless, what was the point of that revision? Apologists for the trilogy like to play the time/budget card when defending these movies. They don't have time to show Zodd throwing his sword to Guts but they can shove in a pointless Farnese/Serpico cameo and CGI ballroom dance? No, this was a change purely for the sake of it.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: KuraiDragoon on March 12, 2014, 07:52:07 PM
Nevertheless, what was the point of that revision? Apologists for the trilogy like to play the time/budget card when defending these movies. They don't have time to show Zodd throwing his sword to Guts but they can shove in a pointless Farnese/Serpico cameo and CGI ballroom dance? No, this was a change purely for the sake of it.
I agree. When I actually watched the movie, the scene didn't bother me as much as I thought it would. The thing about it that bothered me the most was how completely pointless it was, and how much better it would have been if they had stayed true. They made it worse for absolutely no reason. Can't get over that.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: ApostleBob on March 13, 2014, 03:30:07 AM
What makes it especially worse is how random and inelegant the change is.  How throwing a flag saved the day is beyond me.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Doc on March 14, 2014, 11:57:56 PM
What makes it especially worse is how random and inelegant the change is.  How throwing a flag saved the day is beyond me.

And as already highlighted on here, it makes Guts look less of a warrior.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Patou244 on March 28, 2014, 10:17:01 PM
you know what I am surprised no one mentioned, the fact that when Casca was ordered by Griffith to lay naked with Guts that she was still there lying naked next to him when he woke up, and then without a single care for her state she gets up in front of him, totally naked, for him to see and casually dresses in front of him. AS IF SHE DID NOT CARE IF HE SAW HER LIKE THAT!

And then in the second movie she punches Guts in the face over  seeing her naked! It kind of makes her reaction seem all the more ridiculous since (in this version) she didn't seem to care before.

Everything else I think everyone else covered pretty much. Especially that review by Aaz, good job! I thoroughly enjoyed it.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Heavenly Maiden on March 31, 2014, 03:25:57 PM
I think Casca was more pissed that Guts undressed her while out cold then that he saw her naked, but I agree that it was weird that she did not mind Guts seeing her naked in the first movie. The whole thing just seemed off.

I might be in the minority but I liked how this movie toned down just how much of a bitch Casca is to Guts. I always found her combatively to Guts after he just helped her and soothed her through the night with a fever really annoying. Her passing out instead of struggling with Guts was a welcome change. Same with the removal of the tough talk Guts uses to keep Casca going when she collapses. I always found Casca's bravado insincere.

The ball room scene was weird. The last thing you would expect Casca or Guts to do is join in dancing. Just no. If anything I could see them standing back and making fun of the high class dancers, but not joining in.


Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Aazealh on March 31, 2014, 05:06:33 PM
I might be in the minority but I liked how this movie toned down just how much of a bitch Casca is to Guts. I always found her combatively to Guts after he just helped her and soothed her through the night with a fever really annoying.

Well given the situation (and her feelings, probably being ashamed), their history together prior to that and the fact she was still feverish and so not necessarily thinking super clearly, it makes sense that she'd react like that.

Her passing out instead of struggling with Guts was a welcome change. Same with the removal of the tough talk Guts uses to keep Casca going when she collapses. I always found Casca's bravado insincere.

Was it though? It makes her look weak when she isn't. And her struggling is just how she is as a character.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Heavenly Maiden on April 02, 2014, 06:21:50 PM
Well given the situation (and her feelings, probably being ashamed), their history together prior to that and the fact she was still feverish and so not necessarily thinking super clearly, it makes sense that she'd react like that.

not me I thought she came off as completely ungrateful. Like if anyone other than guts had stripped her and taken care of her she would not have been combative . SHe even says her self in the both the manga and the movie that she would have preferred anyone else to help her other then him. That means means Corkus could have stripped her down and he would have gotten a less hostile reaction from her. Of all the things about Casca's attitude that has always bugged , it is how ungrateful she always comes off toward Guts and the things he does her her, and that has not changed even the current story line.

Quote
Was it though? It makes her look weak when she isn't. And her struggling is just how she is as a character.

I do miss her struggling with her assailants and I agree that her getting captured so easily made her look like less of a fighter, what I was talking about was the scene is the manga where Casca collapses and Guts tough guy talks her into keeping going by calling her weak. I know alot of fans eat that scene up but it always made me roll my eyes at Casca. I guess I am looking at this from someone who knows where she will eventually end up, so it makes her her bravado come off insincere to me in light of that.
 





Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Aazealh on April 02, 2014, 06:45:13 PM
not me I thought she came off as completely ungrateful. Like if anyone other than guts had stripped her and taken care of her she would not have been combative . SHe even says her self in the both the manga and the movie that she would have preferred anyone else to help her other then him.

Well yeah, like I said their history together played a role, but I think you're exaggerating on how ungrateful she was. She reacted strongly upon waking up, but that passed and then she confided to Guts, told him her life story and really opened her heart to him. And in the end, when it came to fleeing while leaving him to fight countless opponents, she just wouldn't do it. And she ran back to him despite her condition once she reached the rescue party, with her beaming smile as she found him alive practically unequalled in the story as far as cheer joy goes.

That means means Corkus could have stripped her down and he would have gotten a less hostile reaction from her.

Nah, you're unfair. You know it's not true. Besides, half of that scene is comical in nature.

Of all the things about Casca's attitude that has always bugged , it is how ungrateful she always comes off toward Guts and the things he does her her, and that has not changed even the current story line.

Now you're just completely unfair. Casca and Guts had problems early on, and then they became lovers. The actual part of the story where she resented him is really not that long, and comprised in less scenes than you seem to think. Besides, Casca's also done a lot of things for Guts, and she's still by far the most important person to him. As for her current state, she's not really herself, and she's 1) generally afraid of men because she was raped 2) currently afraid of Guts because he brutalized her twice in volume 23.

I do miss her struggling with her assailants and I agree that her getting captured so easily made her look like less of a fighter, what I was talking about was the scene is the manga where Casca collapses and Guts tough guy talks her into keeping going by calling her weak. I know alot of fans eat that scene up but it always made me roll my eyes at Casca. I guess I am looking at this from someone who knows where she will eventually end up, so it makes her her bravado come off insincere to me in light of that.

What bravado? He talks tough, and she toughens up (i.e. gets up and walks). I don't get your problem with this scene honestly. What would you have preferred her to do? Lie down and stop moving?
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Patou244 on April 04, 2014, 07:33:52 PM
Quote
As for her current state, she's not really herself, and she's 1) generally afraid of men because she was raped 2) currently afraid of Guts because he brutalized her twice in volume 23

I marvel on how many fans seem to forget this. So many people love saying how ungrateful Casca is as proof that she sucks and doesn't deserve Guts when she actually has a justifiable reason to have an aversion to him.
Quote

I know alot of fans eat that scene up but it always made me roll my eyes at Casca. I guess I am looking at this from someone who knows where she will eventually end up, so it makes her her bravado come off insincere to me in light of that.

I am one of those fans that ate up this scene and I am miffed it got taken out of the movie, it was a real turning point that showed that Guts was softening toward Casca and starting to admire her grit. Did you think it was sexist or something? i have heard people bitch about that, and I disagree. So yeah...what was "insincere" about her "bravado" can you explain your self please?
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Hot Chic on August 22, 2014, 08:52:42 PM
I noticed alot iof people seemed to have an issue with the dancing scene in the movie where Guts and Casca dance after the King toasts them.  It seemed sweet to me and seemed to add that they had developed some rapport with each other. Is because it was added in place of the Griffith assasination plot? I saw some commnetators mention how they thought it out of character for Gutys and Casca to dance. I know that in the mnaga no dancing happens because Griffith gets "killed" but had nothing terriable happened at the ball wouldn't have Guts and Casca spent more time with each other and perhaps danced? I don't see why this bothers some poeple on here when I thought is was cute.
Title: Re: Berserk Golden Age Arc II: Capture of Doldrey [Review]
Post by: Aazealh on August 22, 2014, 09:52:26 PM
I noticed alot iof people seemed to have an issue with the dancing scene in the movie where Guts and Casca dance after the King toasts them.  It seemed sweet to me and seemed to add that they had developed some rapport with each other. Is because it was added in place of the Griffith assasination plot? I saw some commnetators mention how they thought it out of character for Gutys and Casca to dance. I know that in the mnaga no dancing happens because Griffith gets "killed" but had nothing terriable happened at the ball wouldn't have Guts and Casca spent more time with each other and perhaps danced? I don't see why this bothers some poeple on here when I thought is was cute.

That movie scene is completely unlike the characters, as evidenced by the fact they both voice their dislike of the ball and find solace in escaping it together on the balcony. That is supposed to be their sweet time. Besides, they were not exactly quite comfortable enough with each other at that point to dance in such a fashion. I'm afraid that not seeing how it betrays the manga only serves to underline the holes in your understanding of the characters. Here, let me quote you my own review of the movie:

Then comes the dance scene. Some pretty weird dancing moves shown there. Also, the emphasis on a single flute for the music doesn't seem to fit what would be playing at a royal ball to me. Anyways, Casca sees Charlotte talking to Griffith (which apparently neither the king nor the queen mind at all) and is jealous. Then Guts comes back and makes a hilariously grotesque face (not kidding, it cracks me up), and they dance together. Notice the extremely dumbed-down relationships between the characters here. The 3D during the dance scene bothers me several times. Of course the faces as always, but also the bodies themselves sometimes, and how they move and are animated.

Anyway, seeing Casca and Guts dance together is very cute. Heart-warming and all (though at some point Guts seems to be talking from the way his lips move, only there's no dialogue). But the problem I have with it is that it's fan-fiction. It's not faithful in any way whatsoever to the characters, in fact it's almost a betrayal of their personalities.

Oh and on a side note, could you please make an effort with spelling in your posts? I'd really appreciate it.