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Berserk => Character Cove => Topic started by: puella on April 16, 2015, 02:53:08 PM

Title: Casca's love for Guts
Post by: puella on April 16, 2015, 02:53:08 PM
There are several scenes where Casca shows her love for Guts. I think she's quite daring about it. Even more direct than Guts. But in the manga the two never say "I love you" : I think it's the Japanese way.
In what scene do you feel Casca's love for Guts the most?
For me, it's when she told Guts to leave after she decided to stay to take care of Griffith.
She wanted to leave with Guts but couldn't abandon Griffith to his fate. But while she was willing to sacrifice her life, she didn't want Guts to sacrifice his, even though she'd clearly be miserable.
Title: Re: Casca's love for Guts
Post by: JMP on April 16, 2015, 09:03:37 PM
I love the scene between Guts and Casca where they're about to go into the secret passageway to rescue Griffith and Casca realizes Guts is worried about her. She starts telling him off and then looks back at him and reminds him that she can watch his back. I feel the love right there. She's saying they're a team and can take care of each other.
Title: Re: Casca's love for Guts
Post by: Walter on April 17, 2015, 01:56:26 PM
Interesting question. The obvious ones stick out to me -- their love scene and the moments leading up to it, her throwing leaves in Guts' face and talking sense to him.

But what also is notable is that their relationship was just beginning to blossom when their lives were irrevocably changed. I feel like there's a lot more to come between those two.
Title: Re: Casca's love for Guts
Post by: buffdaddy92 on April 17, 2015, 05:10:07 PM
for me it was just before their love scene, especially the part where casca says "you keep getting hurt because of me" that line always struck a chord with me.
Title: Re: Casca's love for Guts
Post by: ApostleBob on April 17, 2015, 06:48:48 PM
My favorite, :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stdY7NMWhLc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stdY7NMWhLc) (NSFW)
Title: Re: Casca's love for Guts
Post by: TripleJMaster3 on April 18, 2015, 12:46:49 AM
My favorite, :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stdY7NMWhLc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stdY7NMWhLc) (NSFW)

Hahaha now thats funny, Bob.
Title: Re: Casca's love for Guts
Post by: Aazealh on April 18, 2015, 10:50:05 AM
There are quite a few moments that stick out to me. Those that have already been mentioned of course, but also when Casca walks to Guts' empty room and holds his broken sword to her face in volume 9. A wordless but very effective scene. Then there's when she runs to him after the fight with Wyald. Her whole behavior during that fight really shows how much she cares for him.
Title: Re: Casca's love for Guts
Post by: JMP on April 20, 2015, 08:36:33 PM
But in the manga the two never say "I love you" : I think it's the Japanese way.

Another part of this might also be these two character's personalities. They are both used to maintaining an outwardly tough persona and they are both very action oriented, maybe not so much the types to speak their love as just to show it. The fact that either of them let their guards down enough to become as intimate and open with each other as they did was such a big step for them. I really like that picture of them together that didn't appear in the context of the story, but was just on a page by itself,  where Casca is climbing on Guts. Something about it makes me think of a male and female lion being playful and affectionate with each other. They are being sweet with each other, but something about their expressions tells me they are one dangerous pair! :guts: Both of them formidable warriors and not to be messed with.

(http://gablab.wackomedia.com/files/2013/07/Guts-Casca_005.jpg)

But what also is notable is that their relationship was just beginning to blossom when their lives were irrevocably changed. I feel like there's a lot more to come between those two.

I definitely agree. They had just gotten started and there was so much crazy stuff going on, they didn't have much time to find out what a relationship between them would be like. Plus I think Casca still had some feelings for Griffith that needed sorting through. I think she loves Guts, but the fact that she was still feeling jealous of Charlotte during Griffith's rescue was an indication that she still had some things to put to rest as far as that went. Not surprising since she had been infatuated with Griffith for years. Of course that was pre-eclipse. After what Femto did to her and Guts, not to mention murdering the other members of the Band of the Falcon, I think her feelings for him will now be more like angry/confused/hurt/disappointed. When/if Casca regains her sanity she and Guts will have a lot of issues to deal with. It's not going to be easy for these two, but I really hope they can come to have a close and loving relationship again.  :casca:

There are quite a few moments that stick out to me. Those that have already been mentioned of course, but also when Casca walks to Guts' empty room and holds his broken sword to her face in volume 9. A wordless but very effective scene.

I really like that one, too. Very poignant moment.
Title: Re: Casca's love for Guts
Post by: psychobolt on April 27, 2015, 07:06:15 PM
The one scene I remember from the 95' anime showed Casca's love for Guts was when they were escaping from the tower Griffith was captured in. Guts was standing and holding his sword in the state of shock after killing all the guards. Then Casca wipes off the blood from him which had a calming effect.
Title: Re: Casca's love for Guts
Post by: Vixen Comics on September 18, 2015, 08:57:51 PM
There are several scenes where Casca shows her love for Guts. I think she's quite daring about it. Even more direct than Guts.

I agree with this, Casca was pretty daring about how she loves Guts. I think it is worthy of note that when Guts returns to the falcons after being gone for a a year Casca is the one that first initiates things between them. After Guts pulls her back to safety when she tried to commit suicide she makes the move to put her hand on his and lean into his body, telling him how foolish she thinks he is for always getting hurt on her behalf. This is pretty big as far as I'm concerned and it is important that it was Casca who did this soft tender action first. Guts knew he had feelings for Casca but knew she loved Griffith, he would never have done something like this first to Casca. I mean yeah he picked her up and carried her princess style after the battle of doldrey, but that still come off a relatively platonic compared to what Casca did. It is not until she makes this first physical action and her words that Guts even thinks to act on his own feelings. Go look at those panels again and see just how surprised he is by what Casca does. It is also worthy of note that (in the manga at least) Casca tries to kiss Guts first (and kisses his nose by accident in the process  :casca:)

I love the anime version of them mutually kissing at the same time after looking into each others eyes, but Casca's going in for the kiss on the lips first rather surprised me the manga...it was a very sweet and tentative action on her part. And Guts looks so touched by her efforts, like he can barely believe what was going on. They both fumble around before they get it right. I know this seems like small details but since it is the build up to what comes after (their full on love scene) I think it is a very important detail for the depth of Casca's feelings that she would act on them first, especially considering their history together. It shows a tentative resolution that she would do that at all, and something I feel many fans have either over looked or forgotten over the years that Casca displayed a depth of  fervent emotion toward Guts as he has toward her all these years in spite of her condition. I have seen people outside of Skullnet. accuse Casca of not being as devoted to Guts as he is to her and that she is torn between him and Griffith. But I think this small scene shows the purity Casca's feeling for Guts. And if she had not "made the first move" I guarantee that Guts would not have ever initiated anything on his own. He completely saw Casca as being devoted to Griffith and would not have intruded on that. I think when you consider all of this that says alot about Casca's feeling for Guts...in case any one had any doubts... :slan:

Title: Re: Casca's love for Guts
Post by: Yozuru on October 17, 2015, 10:49:50 PM
Interesting question. The obvious ones stick out to me -- their love scene and the moments leading up to it, her throwing leaves in Guts' face and talking sense to him.

But what also is notable is that their relationship was just beginning to blossom when their lives were irrevocably changed. I feel like there's a lot more to come between those two.

It really is quite sad, like you said, things turn for the worst when they have everything going for them. Guts gets mutilated and Casca reverts to a child-like state. And despite that Guts still loves the hell out of Casca, in episode 287 he says:
(http://puu.sh/kO0CW/e57a41becd.jpg)

Despite that, he is still there willing to try to make things work.

In episode 288, Farnese questions Casca on why she is the way she is, despite Guts always endangering himself for her. I feel the exact same way as Farnese during the discourse.

(http://puu.sh/kO0In/d138f9fc4e.jpg)
Title: Re: Casca's love for Guts
Post by: Vixen Comics on November 26, 2015, 12:32:52 AM

In episode 288, Farnese questions Casca on why she is the way she is, despite Guts always endangering himself for her. I feel the exact same way as Farnese during the discourse.

(http://puu.sh/kO0In/d138f9fc4e.jpg)

This scene with Farnese lashing out at Casca reminds me strongly of Casca lashing out at Guts and her frustration of why Griffith favors him so much, back in the cave. Casca could not wrap her head around someone she viewed as a loose cannon and self centered could be held in such high regard by Griffith. Farnese here can't understand why with the kooky way Casca acts in her current state and how she gives Guts dirty looks all the time, what sway she has over Guts. Farnese views Casca as a lost cause and can't figure out why Guts is holding on to her so badly. Casca could not understand Guts sway over Griffith. I wonder if Miura was making a parallel between these two scenes? Farnese and Casca have so much in common it's amazing.

In episode 288, Farnese questions Casca on why she is the way she is, despite Guts always endangering himself for her. I feel the exact same way as Farnese during the discourse.

I'm surprised you feel that same as Farnese during this discourse, if I am understanding what you mean here, and that bis you don't get why Casca does not care for Guts. Unlike Farnese who has limited knowledge on what transpired during the eclipse to make Casca crazy and Guts brutality toward Casca in volume 23 which made her disdain him, we know these things transpired to make Casca the way she is right now. If Farnese knew these things she would not have been lashing out on Casca's behavior. Just like if Casca knew about Guts past she would have had more empathy for Guts behavior before even the cave scene during the golden age arc.


But to be on tract with the threads topic I am most interested in knowing how Casca is going to show her love for Guts once she is restored. His body has gotten a beaten and deteriorated since she last saw him. I am anxious to see how a restored Casca will tame Guts inner beast, or if she will get a chance to do so.
Title: Re: Casca's love for Guts
Post by: Theozilla on November 26, 2015, 06:39:49 AM
I'm surprised you feel that same as Farnese during this discourse, if I am understanding what you mean here, and that bis you don't get why Casca does not care for Guts. Unlike Farnese who has limited knowledge on what transpired during the eclipse to make Casca crazy and Guts brutality toward Casca in volume 23 which made her disdain him, we know these things transpired to make Casca the way she is right now. If Farnese knew these things she would not have been lashing out on Casca's behavior. Just like if Casca knew about Guts past she would have had more empathy for Guts behavior before even the cave scene during the golden age arc.


But to be on tract with the threads topic I am most interested in knowing how Casca is going to show her love for Guts once she is restored. His body has gotten a beaten and deteriorated since she last saw him. I am anxious to see how a restored Casca will tame Guts inner beast, or if she will get a chance to do so.

Speaking of the events that transpired between Guts and Casca during Volume 23, I really hope Miura doesn't gloss over the significance of Guts' sexual assault on Casca and the impact it should have on his and her relationship if/when Casca is eventually cured (especially if Casca retains her memories of her time when she was nonlucid). Like I can't imagine a restored Casca wanting to immediately resume a romantic relationship with Guts without first processing/working through the many complicated feelings/emotions both would have in regards to that incident.
Title: Re: Casca's love for Guts
Post by: Menosgade on November 26, 2015, 03:27:47 PM
Speaking of the events that transpired between Guts and Casca during Volume 23, I really hope Miura doesn't gloss over the significance of Guts' sexual assault on Casca and the impact it should have on his and her relationship if/when Casca is eventually cured (especially if Casca retains her memories of her time when she was nonlucid). Like I can't imagine a restored Casca wanting to immediately resume a romantic relationship with Guts without first processing/working through the many complicated feelings/emotions both would have in regards to that incident.

 That's for sure. If she comes back, Casca wouldn't simply fall into Guts' arms. But, even if she remembers everything including that case (and her disdain for him as a result) I'd say she would look with another perspective, specially if she can understand Guts' inner Beast, and would probably like him much more than disgust him, as her love could forgive it. She'd just have to taker her time to set everything in it's place.

 Seems a bit too dramatic that she'd just not let that eventualy pass or hate Guts, and Casca is not like that. She is emotional, but not a kid. Only in that state it makes sense for her to disgust him so much, there was nothing really positive for her in him, except that he was the only person arround while travelling and the fact she wasn't offended in any form. Not really much reason to like him.
Title: Re: Casca's love for Guts
Post by: Aazealh on November 26, 2015, 08:12:49 PM
This scene with Farnese lashing out at Casca reminds me strongly of Casca lashing out at Guts and her frustration of why Griffith favors him so much, back in the cave. Casca could not wrap her head around someone she viewed as a loose cannon and self centered could be held in such high regard by Griffith. Farnese here can't understand why with the kooky way Casca acts in her current state and how she gives Guts dirty looks all the time, what sway she has over Guts. Farnese views Casca as a lost cause and can't figure out why Guts is holding on to her so badly. Casca could not understand Guts sway over Griffith. I wonder if Miura was making a parallel between these two scenes?

The parallel is there, but I'd be hard-pressed to say whether it's intentional or just a coincidence. The two underlying situations are pretty different.

Speaking of the events that transpired between Guts and Casca during Volume 23, I really hope Miura doesn't gloss over the significance of Guts' sexual assault on Casca and the impact it should have on his and her relationship if/when Casca is eventually cured (especially if Casca retains her memories of her time when she was nonlucid). Like I can't imagine a restored Casca wanting to immediately resume a romantic relationship with Guts without first processing/working through the many complicated feelings/emotions both would have in regards to that incident.

Really, I think the issues they'll have to address will go way beyond that specific event. Also, please give Miura some credit, will you?

Seems a bit too dramatic that she'd just not let that eventualy pass or hate Guts, and Casca is not like that. She is emotional, but not a kid. Only in that state it makes sense for her to disgust him so much, there was nothing really positive for her in him, except that he was the only person arround while travelling and the fact she wasn't offended in any form. Not really much reason to like him.

And don't forget that she mistrusts all men by default. She only started tolerating Guts after he saved her during the Conviction arc.
Title: Re: Casca's love for Guts
Post by: Theozilla on November 26, 2015, 10:07:53 PM
Really, I think the issues they'll have to address will go way beyond that specific event. Also, please give Miura some credit, will you?

Oh, I don't deny that there will likely other issues, beyond what occurred in Volume 23, explored if/when Casca is restored, I was just stating my thoughts on one of the various issues that I think are pretty significant. And I certainly don't mean to under-credit or imply a lack of faith in Miura, I was just voicing my general narrative anxieties (which are more attributable to seeing other fans (off this site) dismiss the narrative significance that a recovered Casca would have).
Title: Re: Casca's love for Guts
Post by: Vixen Comics on December 03, 2015, 06:04:17 PM
Speaking of the events that transpired between Guts and Casca during Volume 23, I really hope Miura doesn't gloss over the significance of Guts' sexual assault on Casca and the impact it should have on his and her relationship if/when Casca is eventually cured (especially if Casca retains her memories of her time when she was nonlucid). Like I can't imagine a restored Casca wanting to immediately resume a romantic relationship with Guts without first processing/working through the many complicated feelings/emotions both would have in regards to that incident.

I actually hope that is exactly what is going to happen that the events in volume 23 will be glossed over. The last thing I want to see is Casca continuing to hold this incident  against Guts. Yes, it was significant and I do not think that it's severity should be dismissed because it had held real consequences, but at the same time if this incident becomes an issue at all I would hope it would be to at least start a dialogue between Guts and Casca (or Casca, Guts and the elf King) about Guts own mental trauma due to the eclipse. I will be disappointed if Casca merely continues to grudge Guts and give dirty looks and verbally rebuke him. Maybe Casca will not be able to resume a physical relationship with Guts right away but I do not think it should mean she should continue to hate him like she has in her damaged regressed state where she is unable to evaluate the events that led up to it. I mean if she remembers that incident why would she not remember all the other things Guts has done to protect her at the expense of his own body and well being?

The parallel is there, but I'd be hard-pressed to say whether it's intentional or just a coincidence. The two underlying situations are pretty different.

Yeah you are right, it is probably not Miura's intention to make a clear mirror parallel  between these two events I just thought the ferocity of both Casca and Farnese in these situations seemed similar because they both could not understand why the person they where yelling at acted the way they did and was easily forgiven for that. I was also trying to say that I strongly feel that if Farnese had been aware of what had transpired between Guts and Casca in volume 23 or the events of the eclipse that made her the way she is now, that Farnese would not have gone off on her in a bath like she did. If she knew why Casca acts coldly toward Guts or that she mentally regressed due to rape she might have more been more understanding of why Casca does not seem to understand the lengths Guts goes to for her sake and probably would not have lashed out at her.
Title: Re: Casca's love for Guts
Post by: Theozilla on December 03, 2015, 07:51:36 PM
I actually hope that is exactly what is going to happen that the events in volume 23 will be glossed over. The last thing I want to see is Casca continuing to hold this incident  against Guts. Yes, it was significant and I do not think that it's severity should be dismissed because it had held real consequences, but at the same time if this incident becomes an issue at all I would hope it would be to at least start a dialogue between Guts and Casca (or Casca, Guts and the elf King) about Guts own mental trauma due to the eclipse. I will be disappointed if Casca merely continues to grudge Guts and give dirty looks and verbally rebuke him. Maybe Casca will not be able to resume a physical relationship with Guts right away but I do not think it should mean she should continue to hate him like she has in her damaged regressed state where she is unable to evaluate the events that led up to it. I mean if she remembers that incident why would she not remember all the other things Guts has done to protect her at the expense of his own body and well being?

Just because I don't think the events in volume 23 should be glossed over (as in not addressed in any manner or have the ) doesn't mean I never want Guts and Casca to mend their relationship and Casca to be forever resentful of Guts. But for the narrative to completely ignored/dismiss the significance of such a incident would be very poor character writing on Miura's part IMO. And yes, I too also hope Guts and Casca can start a dialogue on their shared mental trauma, but as even Guts himself agrees, that should not excuse Guts' sexual assault against Casca. I just want the incident to be acknowledged and have the proper narrative/emotional consequences for a mentally restored Casca and Guts' relationship, which can then be worked through by the two of them.
And even if in the end, Casca feels that she doesn't want to resume a romantic relationship with Guts (which I personally really doubt will happen) that's a valid choice for her to make that she shouldn't be rebuked for (as even if Guts has protected and sacrificed so much for Casca's safety, he still sexually assaulted her and is not entitled to a romantic relationship with Casca).
Title: Re: Casca's love for Guts
Post by: Aazealh on December 03, 2015, 08:00:55 PM
Oh, I don't deny that there will likely other issues, beyond what occurred in Volume 23, explored if/when Casca is restored, I was just stating my thoughts on one of the various issues that I think are pretty significant. And I certainly don't mean to under-credit or imply a lack of faith in Miura, I was just voicing my general narrative anxieties (which are more attributable to seeing other fans (off this site) dismiss the narrative significance that a recovered Casca would have).

But Casca's narrative significance isn't tied to a continued resentment of Guts, far from it. In fact I certainly hope she will have a much bigger and much more interesting role than that, because that's the exact same role she's been having since the Eclipse. Fortunately, their relationship really has much more going on than that.

I actually hope that is exactly what is going to happen that the events in volume 23 will be glossed over. The last thing I want to see is Casca continuing to hold this incident  against Guts. Yes, it was significant and I do not think that it's severity should be dismissed because it had held real consequences, but at the same time if this incident becomes an issue at all I would hope it would be to at least start a dialogue between Guts and Casca (or Casca, Guts and the elf King) about Guts own mental trauma due to the eclipse. I will be disappointed if Casca merely continues to grudge Guts and give dirty looks and verbally rebuke him. Maybe Casca will not be able to resume a physical relationship with Guts right away but I do not think it should mean she should continue to hate him like she has in her damaged regressed state where she is unable to evaluate the events that led up to it. I mean if she remembers that incident why would she not remember all the other things Guts has done to protect her at the expense of his own body and well being?

I think "glossed over" might be too dismissive, but I agree with the general sentiment. Like I said in the podcast thread (http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=14863.msg238199#msg238199), that event has already been playing a determinant role for many years. Staying hung up on it would feel restrictive, especially since there are so many more things weighing in the balance for them. The simple fact they have both become different people in a different world already means their relationship will by necessity be different from what it was. Their respective trauma, the conflicting way in which they dealt with it, their individual goals, their son... It's kind of obvious but like you said, I expect them to establish a dialogue that will go on for a good long while and contribute to their respective growth, eventually culminating not in a patched up romantic relationship, but in a new one altogether. It would be beautiful and rewarding to see her fall in love with him again.

Yeah you are right, it is probably not Miura's intention to make a clear mirror parallel  between these two events I just thought the ferocity of both Casca and Farnese in these situations seemed similar because they both could not understand why the person they where yelling at acted the way they did and was easily forgiven for that. I was also trying to say that I strongly feel that if Farnese had been aware of what had transpired between Guts and Casca in volume 23 or the events of the eclipse that made her the way she is now, that Farnese would not have gone off on her in a bath like she did. If she knew why Casca acts coldly toward Guts or that she mentally regressed due to rape she might have more been more understanding of why Casca does not seem to understand the lengths Guts goes to for her sake and probably would not have lashed out at her.

Well I certainly agree that the situations are comparable, in fact I've myself made that observation before. About Farnese's behavior had she known the whole story, obviously that didn't happen but in all likeliness her attitude would have indeed been different. That being said, don't forget to factor in Farnese's unrequited feelings for Guts and the jealousness that results from his affection for Casca despite her disdain. That frustration is also at the core of her outburst.

But for the narrative to completely ignored/dismiss the significance of such a incident would be very poor character writing on Miura's part IMO.

Why is that even being considered again? I thought you weren't lacking in faith regarding Miura's abilities? Because clearly your argument here is based on the supposition that Miura would in an incredible reversal of his previous 25+ years of work on the series suddenly become "very poor at character writing".

And even if in the end, Casca feels that she doesn't want to resume a romantic relationship with Guts (which I personally really doubt will happen) that's a valid choice for her to make that she shouldn't be rebuked for (as even if Guts has protected and sacrificed so much for Casca's safety, he still sexually assaulted her and is not entitled to a romantic relationship with Casca).

This not only goes without saying but is really completely off topic, and frankly quite patronizing and in poor taste coming from a man speaking to a woman. Our goal here isn't to use Guts and Casca's relationship as a text-book example of "no means no", and bringing it into the argument out of the blue feels really cheap.
Title: Re: Casca's love for Guts
Post by: Theozilla on December 03, 2015, 08:54:09 PM
But Casca's narrative significance isn't tied to a continued resentment of Guts, far from it. In fact I certainly hope she will have a much bigger and much more interesting role than that, because that's the exact same role she's been having since the Eclipse. Fortunately, their relationship really has much more going on than that.
I agree Casca's narrative significance shouldn't tied to a continued resentment of Guts, I am just arguing that the issues between Guts and Casca that could viably cause resentment need/should be worked through before other roles and dynamics are explored.

Why is that even being considered again? I thought you weren't lacking in faith regarding Miura's abilities? Because clearly your argument here is based on the supposition that Miura would in an incredible reversal of his previous 25+ years of work on the series suddenly become "very poor at character writing".
As I said in other threads I can have faith in Miura's storytelling ability while having some anxiety/being prepared to critique a writer's future potential narrative choices. And regardless I was more specifically responding to Vixen Comics statement that she hopes Miura " glosses over" (which even you said sounds kinda dismissive) the events of Volume 23.

This not only goes without saying but is really completely off topic, and frankly quite patronizing and in poor taste coming from a man speaking to a woman. Our goal here isn't to use Guts and Casca's relationship as a text-book example of "no means no", and bringing it into the argument out of the blue feels really cheap.
I didn't mean to be patronizing or be in poor taste that was not my intention. The reason why I felt it necessary to mention it is because it is very common (at least personally) to see opinions around the web (off this site typically) that demean and devalue Casca, to the point of disregarding/dismissing her own trauma, usually in some egregious manner of trying to prop up/praise Guts' character. It was not my intention to implicate Vixen Comics with such opinions/individuals, I was merely stating an addendum to my thoughts, it wasn't wasn't my intention to implicate it as part of my debate with Vixen Comics.
Title: Re: Casca's love for Guts
Post by: Aazealh on December 03, 2015, 09:05:43 PM
I agree Casca's narrative significance shouldn't tied to a continued resentment of Guts, I am just arguing that the issues between Guts and Casca that could viably cause resentment need/should be worked through before other roles and dynamics are explored.

Why before and not along with? It will just be part of the natural process of getting to know each other again. Either way, it's pretty obvious.

As I said in other threads I can have faith in Miura's storytelling ability while having some anxiety/being prepared to critique a writer's future potential narrative choices.

But... no. No you can't. That goes contrary to what "having faith" means.

I didn't mean to be patronizing or be in poor taste that was not my intention. The reason why I felt it necessary to mention it is because it is very common (at least personally) to see opinions around the web (off this site typically) that demean and devalue Casca, to the point of disregarding/dismissing her own trauma, usually in some egregious manner of trying to prop up/praise Guts' character. It was not my intention to implicate Vixen Comics with such opinions/individuals, I was merely stating an addendum to my thoughts, it wasn't wasn't my intention to implicate it as part of my debate with Vixen Comics.

I understand, but that's how it came across regardless and whatever you've read elsewhere on the Internet does not excuse it. Please be mindful of that in the future.
Title: Re: Casca's love for Guts
Post by: Theozilla on December 03, 2015, 09:27:50 PM
Why before and not along with? It will just be part of the natural process of getting to know each other again. Either way, it's pretty obvious.
Well, I should rephrase myself, you're right said issues can be worked through while new roles/themes are also being explored at the same time, I just expect, due to narrative convention, the aforementioned issues to be among some the first things discussed and explored with Guts and Casca.

But... no. No you can't. That goes contrary to what "having faith" means.
To quote my response in the other thread: I am saying that I do believe Miura will tell his story well/properly (I'm like 98% confident that he will), but It think one can hold that belief while still acknowledging the possibility that he isn't infallible as storyteller (the 2% anxiety). I don't think I need to believe that Miura will always do right 100% of the time in order to claim a general faith in his abilities.

I understand, but that's how it came across regardless and whatever you've read elsewhere on the Internet does not excuse it. Please be mindful of that in the future.
Alright, I apologize and I will strive to be more mindful.
Title: Re: Casca's love for Guts
Post by: Aazealh on December 03, 2015, 09:34:04 PM
To quote my response in the other thread: I am saying that I do believe Miura will tell his story well/properly (I'm like 98% confident that he will), but It think one can hold that belief while still acknowledging the possibility that he isn't infallible as storyteller (the 2% anxiety). I don't think I need to believe that Miura will always do right 100% of the time in order to claim a general faith in his abilities.

But I told you that in the first place because your entire argument rests on the assumption he will not do the characters justice, which is absolutely unfair and unwarranted given that the issue you say you don't want to see ignored is one he created and made central to the current relationship between Guts and Casca in the first place.
Title: Re: Casca's love for Guts
Post by: Theozilla on December 03, 2015, 10:02:02 PM
But I told you that in the first place because your entire argument rests on the assumption he will not do the characters justice, which is absolutely unfair and unwarranted given that the issue you say you don't want to see ignored is one he created and made central to the current relationship between Guts and Casca in the first place.

My intention for my original post/argument that I made on this topic in the thread was to just voice my anxieties (and my thoughts relating to them) over the possibility that Miura might fumble on said issues, regardless of how unlikely I think it is that he would. It was not my intention to imply that my anxieties were my default assumption/expectation of of what I believe will occur. I am sorry that I did not properly convey that in my original post.
Title: Re: Casca's love for Guts
Post by: Aazealh on December 03, 2015, 10:17:07 PM
My intention for my original post/argument that I made on this topic in the thread was to just voice my anxieties (and my thoughts relating to them) over the possibility that Miura might fumble on said issues, regardless of how unlikely I think it is that he would. It was not my intention to imply that my anxieties were my default assumption/expectation of of what I believe will occur. I am sorry that I did not properly convey that in my original post.

Alright, although I must say, I don't think a thread devoted to discussing how Casca has shown her love for Guts in the story was the best place for it.
Title: Re: Casca's love for Guts
Post by: Theozilla on December 03, 2015, 10:24:16 PM
Alright, although I must say, I don't think a thread devoted to discussing how Casca has shown her love for Guts in the story was the best place for it.

Eh, I saw Vixen Comics bring up the issues from Volume 23, so I thought it might be an appropriate spot to broach the subject and voice some of my anxieties/thoughts, but in retrospect you're probably right.
Title: Re: Casca's love for Guts
Post by: Feeblecursedone on June 16, 2016, 08:57:58 PM
I wouldn't say its love as much as Casca's need to depend on others. If you think about it, her life should have ended when that pedo noble picked her up, instead she got rescued by Griffith and ultimately became obsessed with him, literally her whole life was Griffith, that's why she gives up and drops down the waterfall after Guts' return.

Afterwards, the role is picked up by Guts, who becomes her pillar of support number two. I think, even though Casca is potrayed as a bitter tomboy soldier, on the inside, she's still a soft woman, taught to depend on men ( how people used to think in medieavel ages ).
Title: Re: Casca's love for Guts
Post by: Aazealh on June 16, 2016, 09:17:02 PM
I wouldn't say its love as much as Casca's need to depend on others.

Well then you'd be wrong, because what Casca felt for Guts before she lost her mind was definitely love.

If you think about it, her life should have ended when that pedo noble picked her up, instead she got rescued by Griffith and ultimately became obsessed with him, literally her whole life was Griffith, that's why she gives up and drops down the waterfall after Guts' return.

Afterwards, the role is picked up by Guts, who becomes her pillar of support number two. I think, even though Casca is potrayed as a bitter tomboy soldier, on the inside, she's still a soft woman, taught to depend on men ( how people used to think in medieavel ages ).

Wow, you're completely misreading her character here. First, there's no telling what her life would have been if Griffith had not intervened when she was assaulted. Second, she did idolize Griffith, but the reason she let herself fall off the cliff isn't just because Griffith is gone. She'd led the Band of the Falcon through much darker times than Griffith ever had, for a year, and she was exhausted. It's a combination of factors that lead to that moment of confusion and her decision to jump. And to say she's been taught to depend on men is preposterous. Casca was Griffith's right-hand woman throughout the entire Golden Age arc, and only Guts ever outdid her on that front. She actually supported Griffith much more than he supported her, and part of why she was originally so angry at Guts is because he did not follow her ways in that regard.

As for her relationship with Guts, it isn't anything like what she had with Griffith. They're a couple, and again she would have supported Guts as much if not more than the opposite. The biggest evidence of that is her attempt to let him go so he can live the life he wants while she'd stay behind to take care of a crippled Griffith, essentially forfeiting her own happiness for his sake. Because while he wanted to stay too, she didn't want him to be miserable. Casca is not an indestructible character, she has sensitivies and a soft side for sure, but she's literally the anti-thesis of what you're describing. She embodies the feminine ideal of selflessness and devotion. Someone you can depend on, not that depends on others.
Title: Re: Casca's love for Guts
Post by: Feeblecursedone on June 16, 2016, 09:36:37 PM
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Well then you'd be wrong, because what Casca felt for Guts before she lost her mind was definitely love.

Opinion. She came to " love " Guts because she was vulnerable and he was there. Before that she idolized Griffith and turned quickly to Guts when she realised Griffith can't be hers.

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Wow, you're completely misreading her character here. First, there's no telling what her life would have been if Griffith had not intervened when she was assaulted. Second, she did idolize Griffith, but the reason she let herself fall off the cliff isn't just because Griffith is gone. She'd led the Band of the Falcon through much darker times than Griffith ever had, for a year, and she was exhausted. It's a combination of factors that lead to that moment of confusion and her decision to jump. And to say she's been taught to depend on men is preposterous. Casca was Griffith's right-hand woman throughout the entire Golden Age arc, and only Guts ever outdid her on that front. She actually supported Griffith much more than he supported her, and part of why she was originally so angry at Guts is because he did not follow her ways in that regard.

No telling? Im quite sure we were able to tell what her life would have been like in the first few seconds of that carriage ride. It certainly wouldn't have been any kind of sword fantasy that she had with band of hawk. Unless you're being ambigious and just saying her life could have been 100 shades of horrible, which we can all conclue on their own. However, implying it would have been better is highly unlikely.

And yes, she was exhausted, but the fact she relied on men , well i should rephrase it. Not on any men, but first Griffith and then Guts is not misreading at all. She collapsed with Griffith's capture, and then when she saw the state he was in she almost completely gave up. WHo was there to stop that? Guts.

Besides, I meant the dependance on men was written to her character because of the time period the manga borrows, when women had no rights and were considered objects and properties of men. She might have appeared strong on the outside, and she was, but that was only when Griffith was around, and then Guts later.

She had to adapt to battlefield lifestyle and life among men.
Title: Re: Casca's love for Guts
Post by: Aazealh on June 16, 2016, 09:51:59 PM
Opinion. She came to " love " Guts because she was vulnerable and he was there. Before that she idolized Griffith and turned quickly to Guts when she realised Griffith can't be hers.

It's black and white on the page, so that's hardly a matter of opinion. And to say she just defaulted back on Guts "because he was there" really doesn't do justice to either characters nor to the development of their relationship over the course of several volumes. Seems to me you should re-read the manga.

No telling? Im quite sure we were able to tell what her life would have been like in the first few seconds of that carriage ride. It certainly wouldn't have been any kind of sword fantasy that she had with band of hawk. Unless you're being ambigious and just saying her life could have been 100 shades of horrible, which we can all conclue on their own. However, implying it would have been better is highly unlikely.

It's the Band of the Falcon, and "her life would be over" is typically understood to mean she'd have died. But we don't know that she would have. And she might have escaped or fought back eventually, or who knows what. The point is we don't know, and you're just letting your preconceptions show by stating otherwise.

And yes, she was exhausted, but the fact she relied on men , well i should rephrase it. Not on any men, but first Griffith and then Guts is not misreading at all. She collapsed with Griffith's capture, and then when she saw the state he was in she almost completely gave up. WHo was there to stop that? Guts.

She collapsed? She led the Band of the Falcon without flinching for the hardest year of their existence. That's not "collapsing". As for being shaken when she saw the state Griffith was in (she did not "almost completely give up"), so were they all, Guts included. He cried when he saw Griffith's face. Also, one of the first things she did after becoming Guts' lover was also to help him get over the childhood trauma that had haunted him all his life. And to this day, Casca is the reason Guts can keep fighting and stay sane.

Besides, I meant the dependance on men was written to her character because of the time period the manga borrows, when women had no rights and were considered objects and properties of men. She might have appeared strong on the outside, and she was, but that was only when Griffith was around, and then Guts later.

The manga does not borrow a time period, it's set in a fantasy world. It's not a historical story, and historically women were definitely not as dependant on men as you seem to think anyway. During the Middle Ages, wives could legally duel their husbands to the death if they were wronged. I'm not sure where you get your information, but you should probably update it. Anyhow, you're flat-out wrong about Casca, as I already explained (she was shown to be strong leading the Band of the Falcon on her own), and as anyone can plainly see in the manga. In conclusion, let me repeat again that Casca did a lot more to support Griffith than he did to support her. In fact, if you'll remember what she tells Guts at the waterfall, she blames him for not realizing that Griffith was weak without the moral support Guts provided him.
Title: Re: Casca's love for Guts
Post by: Feeblecursedone on June 16, 2016, 10:02:12 PM
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And to say she just defaulted back on Guts "because he was there" really doesn't do justice to either characters nor to the development of their relationship over the course of several volumes. Seems to me you should re-read the manga.

You might want to pretty it up in any way you want, but that's how it was. They fell of the cliff, they bonded and shared close moments, later griffith fucked up, casca wanted to end her life, and guts was there to save it. * shrug * There's no need for fancy words in order to establish the way things went. In any case, its my opinion, saying im flat out wrong is like saying red is a better colour than blue. Not what i'd expect from an admin of the site.

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's the Band of the Falcon, and "her life would be over" is typically understood to mean she'd have died. But we don't know that she would have. And she might have escaped or fought back eventually, or who knows what. The point is we don't know, and you're just letting your preconceptions show by stating otherwise.

And you're providing no argument beyond " we don't know ". However, we can agree at least with the band she had food, adequate protection and comrades. I'll take that over any noble sex toy/slave chances.

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She collapsed? She led the Band of the Falcon without flinching for the hardest year of their existence. That's not "collapsing". As for being shaken when she saw the state Griffith was in (she did not "almost completely give up"), so were they all, Guts included. He cried when he saw Griffith's face. Also, one of the first things she did after becoming Guts' lover was also to help him get over the childhood trauma that had haunted him all his life. And to this day, Casca is the reason Guts can keep fighting and stay sane.

Sigh. Yes, she collapsed, after leading them to some point. Not sure what are you trying to say here though, because all of these things are true and I was never arguing them, only that she was depending on Griffith and Guts. Oh, and she still does, obviously.

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he manga does not borrow a time period, it's set in a fantasy world. It's not a historical story, and historically women were definitely not as dependant on men as you seem to think anyway. During the Middle Ages, wives could legally duel their husbands to the death if they were wronged. I'm not sure where you get your information, but you should probably update it. Anyhow, you're flat-out wrong about Casca, as I already explained (she was shown to be strong leading the Band of the Falcon on her own), and as anyone can plainly see in the manga. In conclusion, let me repeat again that Casca did a lot more to support Griffith than he did to support her. In fact, if you'll remember what she tells Guts at the waterfall, she blames him for not realizing that Griffith was weak without the moral support Guts provided him.

Please, what else but a mediaeval fantasy world? Swords, magic, etc. To me it sounds like you're nitpicking only for the sake of having something to say. I didn't literally meant the setting is in medieavel age, but that its potrayed as so. As for being flat out wrong... eh, yeah I think ill end this argument here.

Title: Re: Casca's love for Guts
Post by: Resonance on June 16, 2016, 10:15:09 PM
During the Middle Ages, wives could legally duel their husbands to the death if they were wronged.

Huh, I never knew about that. Guess you learn something new everyday.
Title: Re: Casca's love for Guts
Post by: Aazealh on June 18, 2016, 01:21:36 PM
You might want to pretty it up in any way you want, but that's how it was. They fell of the cliff, they bonded and shared close moments, later griffith fucked up, casca wanted to end her life, and guts was there to save it. * shrug * There's no need for fancy words in order to establish the way things went. In any case, its my opinion, saying im flat out wrong is like saying red is a better colour than blue. Not what i'd expect from an admin of the site.

Dude, this is a story. Casca and Guts fell in love because the author decided they would. You can shrug all you want and deny it as strongly as you can, but you are wrong in saying Casca didn't love Guts and just needed to "depend on someone", with Guts happening to "just be there". Miura even bothers to show that Judo also loved her but that it was unrequited. Guts and Casca's love is at the core of the entire story of Berserk. Guts' love for Casca is what brought him to Elfhelm, and it's what prevents him from succumbing to madness everytime he fights. Casca's restoration and the beginning of her new relationship with Guts is basically the most awaited event in the story right now.

And you're providing no argument beyond " we don't know ". However, we can agree at least with the band she had food, adequate protection and comrades. I'll take that over any noble sex toy/slave chances.

But... I don't need to provide arguments. The fact something is unknown is plain to see. Again, this is a story. It went the way it did because the author decided it would. We have no means of knowing how it would have gone otherwise, but what is sure is that Casca's life would not have immediately ended.

Sigh. Yes, she collapsed, after leading them to some point. Not sure what are you trying to say here though, because all of these things are true and I was never arguing them, only that she was depending on Griffith and Guts. Oh, and she still does, obviously.

You're being disingenuous. You said "she collapsed with Griffith's capture", which implies that as soon as he was gone she couldn't function anymore. That was to support your argument that Casca, as a weak woman, needs a man to be able to do anything. Now that I've corrected you by reminding you that she led the Band of the Falcon alone during the hardest year of their existence, you're pretending that her eventual breakdown after a year's worth of combat fatigue is what you meant all along. But it's not and everyone can see that. She did not depend on Guts or Griffith to lead the band during that year. But beyond that, even when Griffith was around she did more supporting than vice versa. When he was hurting himself in the water after a night with Gennon, she was the one to provide him comfort. And at the waterfall, her argument with Guts revolves entirely around her intimate understanding of (and Guts' blindness to) Griffith's weakness and need for support, a support she could not provide anymore after Guts replaced her as Griffith's confident. Last example: when the Eclipse occurs and everyone panicks, Casca is the one who rallies them and keeps order. Guts then realizes that she is a much greater leader than he had previously thought.

Please, what else but a mediaeval fantasy world? Swords, magic, etc. To me it sounds like you're nitpicking only for the sake of having something to say. I didn't literally meant the setting is in medieavel age, but that its potrayed as so. As for being flat out wrong... eh, yeah I think ill end this argument here.

It can be plainly seen by all that Berserk's world and setting borrows liberally from various cultures and time periods, ranging from Ancient Greece or India to the late Renaissance. You mention swords, but some of the swords shown in Berserk are from 1000 B.C. Others are from the 17th century. None of that is medieval, nor does it support your prejudices against Casca. Anyway, ending this discussion does seem to be the wisest move to me.

Huh, I never knew about that. Guess you learn something new everyday.

There are a lot of misconceptions about that time period. The idea of "Dark Ages" is pretty much bullshit.
Title: Re: Casca's love for Guts
Post by: Resonance on June 18, 2016, 01:48:11 PM
There are a lot of misconceptions about that time period. The idea of "Dark Ages" is pretty much bullshit.

Definately, now I feel that I should put some research into the time period so I can see if Berserk tries to replicate it/stay faithful. So far it looks accurate seeing as Casca punches Guts's face a couple of times throughout the manga after he annoys her  :troll:
Title: Re: Casca's love for Guts
Post by: Feeblecursedone on June 18, 2016, 02:15:27 PM
Ah I see what the problem is here, you misunderstood me, or I was not clear enough, apologies if so. Also apologies if i came off as aggressive.

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Dude, this is a story. Casca and Guts fell in love because the author decided they would. You can shrug all you want and deny it as strongly as you can, but you are wrong in saying Casca didn't love Guts and just needed to "depend on someone", with Guts happening to "just be there"

Yes I know she loves him. Actually I never denied it, but due to how I phrased things I can see why you misunderstood me. I only ever argued in which way she fell in love with him. He was there as support, and they bonded. Technically she blamed herself because she thought she failed Griffith ( falling off cliff, fever, women's issues and what not ) and as such wanted to know why Guts always puts Griffith into danger with his recklessness right?

If we consider that she came to realise she'll never be able to be Griffith's woman, but supportive sword arm, is it that strange for her to turn to Guts, who not only risked his life for her personally, but is actually someone who she realistically can be with? I mean, I did use the phrase of switching from one to another but what i really meant was that, so I guess it came off badly to some people. I tend to be blunt honestly.


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You're being disingenuous. You said "she collapsed with Griffith's capture", which implies that as soon as he was gone she couldn't function anymore. That was to support your argument that Casca, as a weak woman, needs a man to be able to do anything. Now that I've corrected you by reminding you that she led the Band of the Falcon alone during the hardest year of their existence, you're pretending that her eventual breakdown after a year's worth of combat fatigue is what you meant all along. But it's not and everyone can see that. She did not depend on Guts or Griffith to lead the band during that year. But beyond that, even when Griffith was around she did more supporting than vice versa. When he was hurting himself in the water after a night with Gennon, she was the one to provide him comfort. And at the waterfall, her argument with Guts revolves entirely around her intimate understanding of (and Guts' blindness to) Griffith's weakness and need for support, a support she could not provide anymore after Guts replaced her as Griffith's confident. Last example: when the Eclipse occurs and everyone panicks, Casca is the one who rallies them and keeps order. Guts then realizes that she is a much greater leader than he had previously thought.

Considering Casca basically grew up with Band of the Hawk, I've always seen her as more masculine and a tomboy than an actual female-female. I dont mean that as an insult or anything, but more as a measure of adaptation to a mercenary lifestyle. Obviously she had to be tough and what not, and given she was 2nd to Griffith, she was. But that doesn't mean she was able to go on her own without Griffith or without Guts, as we have seen.

She needed that stability. She needed both of them, as you say, she loved both in a different way.

Yet we both know that Griffith meant to her more than anybody else, and despite her initial hardships and heroics, she did start to crumble, which was further enhanced by Guts' departure, wasnt it. Besides, what's so bad about needing others to depend on? They're humans, which means pack animals. Its even more nicely portrayed in bonfire of dreams episode with the embers and her conversation with Guts.


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It can be plainly seen by all that Berserk's world and setting borrows liberally from various cultures and time periods, ranging from Ancient Greece or India to the late Renaissance. You mention swords, but some of the swords shown in Berserk are from 1000 B.C. Others are from the 17th century. None of that is medieval, nor does it support your prejudices against Casca. Anyway, ending this discussion does seem to be the wisest move to me.

Mhm, quite aware of that. I was really just aiming for a generic all in one genre/keyword there. There's a lot of games/mangas that have diffferent weapons and what not from diffrent time periods but are still generally refered to as mediaeval-fantasy and what not. Its not that im not aware, its just easier to narrow it to one.

Technically, any sword/axe/halberd with castles, armours and bla bla what not is refered to as mediaeval. Unless its gothic architecture, then its usually thought of as Viktorian, with elements of macabre and horror, ne. ( Bloodborne )

THo for the sake of the argument, let's just call it Dark Fantasy and amen. I can see you're quite passionate and like everything to be " correct " but eh, im stubborn.  :schierke:

Title: Re: Casca's love for Guts
Post by: Aazealh on June 18, 2016, 03:45:32 PM
Ah I see what the problem is here, you misunderstood me, or I was not clear enough, apologies if so. Also apologies if i came off as aggressive.

No worries.

Yes I know she loves him. Actually I never denied it, but due to how I phrased things I can see why you misunderstood me. I only ever argued in which way she fell in love with him. He was there as support, and they bonded. Technically she blamed herself because she thought she failed Griffith ( falling off cliff, fever, women's issues and what not ) and as such wanted to know why Guts always puts Griffith into danger with his recklessness right?

If we consider that she came to realise she'll never be able to be Griffith's woman, but supportive sword arm, is it that strange for her to turn to Guts, who not only risked his life for her personally, but is actually someone who she realistically can be with? I mean, I did use the phrase of switching from one to another but what i really meant was that, so I guess it came off badly to some people. I tend to be blunt honestly.

Their bond grew over time and I wouldn't say it started just because he was there for support. They didn't get along at first and they opened up to each other through shared ordeals. Casca also saw that she'd been wrong about Guts' personality and motives, while he acknowledged that her abilities made her more attractive to him than any "typical" women. But what's important is that Casca came to genuinely love Guts for who he was, it's not like he was just a second choice after Griffith. Whether she actually loved Griffith is actually up for debate. She wanted to be with him for sure, but how much of her infatuation was due to idolizing him as a leader? Her relationship with Guts is very different in that regard, since they were equal (she actually had higher rank, which didn't bother Guts). Also worth reiterating is that it's not like Casca herself didn't do anything for Guts (or Griffith for that matter). She helped him many times, cared for him, healed him both physically and psychologically. She's also the only one who stood up to him, when even Griffith didn't. Their relationship is based on the sum of all these events and their love was the result.

Considering Casca basically grew up with Band of the Hawk, I've always seen her as more masculine and a tomboy than an actual female-female. I dont mean that as an insult or anything, but more as a measure of adaptation to a mercenary lifestyle. Obviously she had to be tough and what not, and given she was 2nd to Griffith, she was. But that doesn't mean she was able to go on her own without Griffith or without Guts, as we have seen.

Dude I don't know how many times I can repeat this: we are shown and told through characters in the story that Casca was an exemplary leader for the Band of the Falcon in a period where neither Griffith nor Guts were around. I don't know how you can derive from that evidence that Casca couldn't "go on her own" without them. The manga directly contradicts you. And the fact she was exhausted by the time Guts returned doesn't undermine the rest, it's on the contrary a testimony to the tough times they endured. The whole group was on the verge of breaking down by that point.

Yet we both know that Griffith meant to her more than anybody else, and despite her initial hardships and heroics, she did start to crumble, which was further enhanced by Guts' departure, wasnt it. Besides, what's so bad about needing others to depend on? They're humans, which means pack animals. Its even more nicely portrayed in bonfire of dreams episode with the embers and her conversation with Guts.

I'm not sure what you're even talking about here. The sequence of events doesn't really correspond to what you're describing. Casca didn't want Guts to leave in volume 8 because she had fallen in love with him. That scene when she yells his name as Griffith lies on his knees in the snow is the big reveal that Casca's love for Guts has outgrown her devotion to Griffith. It's changed her, as Judo remarks. Then Griffith gets captured, and shortly thereafter Casca (despite being severely wounded in the ambush the Band of the Falcon falls into) goes on to lead the troops by herself for a full year. By the time Guts returns (in volume 9), the Band of the Falcon is in disarray after a year of being on the run and suffering constant attacks. Then at that point she has a breakdown.

Mhm, quite aware of that. I was really just aiming for a generic all in one genre/keyword there. There's a lot of games/mangas that have diffferent weapons and what not from diffrent time periods but are still generally refered to as mediaeval-fantasy and what not. Its not that im not aware, its just easier to narrow it to one. Technically, any sword/axe/halberd with castles, armours and bla bla what not is refered to as mediaeval. Unless its gothic architecture, then its usually thought of as Viktorian, with elements of macabre and horror, ne. ( Bloodborne ) THo for the sake of the argument, let's just call it Dark Fantasy and amen. I can see you're quite passionate and like everything to be " correct " but eh, im stubborn.  :schierke:

All I'm saying is that Berserk does not accurately reproduce a specific historical time period, nor does it try to. It's not that I can't stand to see "medieval" used as a misnomer, but deriving what mores and social values must apply to Berserk's fantasy world based on your perception of what the Middle Ages were like is just far-fetched. Anyway, if we need to use a specific term for Berserk's genre, "fantasy" is it.

As for the Victorian era (named after Queen Victoria), it's not simply limited to Gothic architecture. Gothic architecture dates back 600 years before Victoria was born. There was a revival of it during her reign, but typically what is most associated with that term and era is the industrial revolution. That's why for fiction it's usually associated with the Steampunk genre.
Title: Re: Casca's love for Guts
Post by: Voldo on July 21, 2017, 11:00:22 AM
When Grffith and Guts were about the have their duel before Guts' departure, Casca basically defied Griffiths orders and went inbetween them. She had seen Griffith as a God whos orders were absolute. But her love for Guts had really started to grow.

Might not be the ultimate moment, but I'd certainly say it's one of the the greater.