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Berserk => Current Episodes => Topic started by: Squiddot on June 22, 2016, 12:01:48 PM

Title: Episode 344
Post by: Squiddot on June 22, 2016, 12:01:48 PM
Title: Witch Village
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: DANGERDOOOOM on June 22, 2016, 12:31:06 PM
Yes! Pumped for the translation  :ubik: Looks like we've stumbled upon a community of witches  :isidro:
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: jackson_hurley on June 22, 2016, 01:01:49 PM
Woah! Waking up to a new episode is wonderful! I'm very curious about the "yoda/mr miagi " character (for lack of a name) And that huge tree house! Wow!
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Aazealh on June 22, 2016, 01:03:21 PM
Busy with work right now, but with just a peak I like the character design of the new guys as well as the looks of the valley and village.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Walter on June 22, 2016, 01:10:56 PM
I'm in love. We've arrived at last! What a fucking amazing episode! Miura is really going for it -- wasting zero time as we plow straight ahead toward the Elf King. Can't wait to learn more.

I'm guessing Schierke brought up the Boy in the context of asking : "weren't you expecting us, didn't you send an emissary?" "No."  :isidro:
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Oburi on June 22, 2016, 01:23:20 PM
Wow. THis is it guys! We have arrived! And it doesn't disappoint. I love the look of the village. I think it looks very close to how most of us thought it would, a bigger version of Floras mansion basically. Schierke must be in heaven. After all the shit she's been through being dragged along through human towns and cities she's finally in a comforting village of her own people. You can see how happy and comfortable she is.  Looks like we're going to get lot's of little tidbits of info about tons of stuff. The moonlight boy, Flora, Puck.

I'd also like to say just how gorgeous the art is in this episode. I can't tell if it's because we've been away for so long or what but it's glorious for some reason. This episode looks very funny too.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Patrick on June 22, 2016, 01:26:07 PM
Waking up to see a new episode of Berserk made my day!  :guts:
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Squiddot on June 22, 2016, 01:38:50 PM
For such a monumental moment in Berserk history i agree this episode didn't disappoint at all. Elfhelm is beautiful, we have a character capable of explaining a lot of unanswered questions, possibly a few we didn't know we had. And there's finally a peaceful space where our characters can relax and grow. Hopefully in this peace from outside threats we'll see the further development of some of the inner-group tensions, for better or for worse. And this is all without mentioning a SANE CASCA on the horizon!

You know things are getting important when Guts pulls a face like this...
(http://i.imgur.com/DU7Or9Y.png)
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Tabris on June 22, 2016, 01:39:17 PM
So, so, so excited. Cannot wait for the translation.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Aazealh on June 22, 2016, 01:39:30 PM
I'm guessing Schierke brought up the Boy in the context of asking : "weren't you expecting us, didn't you send an emissary?" "No."  :isidro:

The old man actually tells her that the King of Elves had foretold their arrival, and Schierke thinks back to her guess about the boy being from Elfhelm and deduces that she was right. Of course, that'll only make the eventual reveal that she was actually mistaken all the more interesting. :slan:
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: jackson_hurley on June 22, 2016, 01:46:27 PM
The old man actually tells her that the King of Elves had foretold their arrival, and Schierke thinks back to her guess about the boy being from Elfhelm and deduces that she was right. Of course, that'll only make the eventual reveal that she was actually mistaken all the more interesting. :slan:

Nice! That makes it even better.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Cyrus Jong on June 22, 2016, 01:57:43 PM
Very charming. Whole thing reminded me of something Studio Ghibli would make. Loved the look of the tree houses and all the snippets of witches just going on about their daily lives. And we got to see a couple of rarely-seen expressions from Guts. I wonder what was said to make him smile?

Ahhh, July is going to be a very long month this year.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Theozilla on June 22, 2016, 02:01:09 PM
The new episode looks great (and it appears the next one is scheduled for a July 22 release?). Elfhelm looks great, all the various witch and warlock apprentices reminds me a bit of Little Witch Academia (despite it having a very the different tone than Berserk). The elder warlock's design also reminds me of the Studio Ghibli "look" for elderly characters. Can't wait to read the translated dialogue between all the new characters and the party.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: JMP on June 22, 2016, 02:07:19 PM
This is great! Loving it! Got the biggest smile on my face right now.  :guts: I like the elder magi and his goat a lot. His intro with the rain is neat. The little scenes where it looks like the young witches are learning their various arts are cool. So funny where it looks like Isidro perhaps decides to go harass the local ladies and gets a beat down.  :ganishka: Love the witch city. It's all just gorgeous!  :ubik:
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Feeblecursedone on June 22, 2016, 03:49:19 PM
Completely in love with the design of Elfhelm. It looks like high fantasy that I expected from Elves and Wizards! Those trees with faces remind me of those in dark souls 2, so I wonder if they're spirit possessed or are they just astral creatures.

We've got a busty new wizard as well  :isidro: 

Seeing how many wizards and magical creatures there are, Griffith would have to be insane to dare attacking that place. Then again, i guess he has no reason t oanyway since they'l lcome towards him.

I also like how the elder mage takes a sneak peak at Guts, like confirming for himself " So this is the guy from prophecy, the struggler " awesome stuff.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: JMP on June 22, 2016, 04:21:31 PM
When Schierke mentions Flora to the elder magi he and his goat seem surprised and then he looks pleased. That seems to bode well for Schierke as Flora's apprentice.  :serpico: I'm excited to learn more about what's going on.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Delta Phi on June 22, 2016, 05:37:42 PM
Love this episode! I cannot wait to see what everyone is saying.

That said, from the get-go I thought something felt off about the art, but I couldn't quite put my finger on it until someone of Reddit posted a couple images comparing Molda's sudden enhancement...

Also, do we know for sure that they are in Elfhelm? Or is this a different settlement inhabited by witches?
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Feeblecursedone on June 22, 2016, 05:50:32 PM
I cant be the only one who thought " Hm, I wonder who would win in a magic duel btw Daiba and the Elder Warlock right? "  when seeing him for first time :troll:
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Aazealh on June 22, 2016, 06:29:03 PM
Also, do we know for sure that they are in Elfhelm? Or is this a different settlement inhabited by witches?

They are on Skellig. Elfhelm is where the elves live. I don't believe the human village is it.

a couple images comparing Molda's sudden enhancement...

Her chest had only been visible in a single panel until now, so... while it's clearly bigger, this isn't really a big deal as far as I'm concerned.

I cant be the only one who thought " Hm, I wonder who would win in a magic duel btw Daiba and the Elder Warlock right? "  when seeing him for first time :troll:

Daiba wouldn't win a duel against Schierke if they were on an equal footing. So this guy? He'd wipe the floor with him.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Rupert Sinclair on June 22, 2016, 06:40:30 PM
I'm chomping at the bit for that summary, Aaz!  :ubik:

So far we haven't seen too many astral creatures, other than those trees.  I guess a majority of them must inhabit another part of the island?
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Aazealh on June 22, 2016, 07:18:44 PM
Summary courtesy of puella:

Keep in mind this is re-translated based on an unreliable translation. Nothing in here is 100% sure until we see the original Japanese text.

After Guts downs the burning man, the flames pick up and the group is worried that the entire field is going to burn down. Molda calls them thieves and says she won't let them go. She complains that they destroyed her puppet and says they'll all be burned to death. They're all pretty surprised to see her, what with being a witch and all. Isidro is impressed that she can fly on a broomstick and immediately makes fun of Schierke. Schierke on the other hand tells Molda they aren't thieves, and that prompts her to wonder why a witch like Schierke, as well as elves, are with the group.

In that time, the other witches arrive. Their leader, the girl, nags at Molda for not listening to anybody. Schierke asks them if they're local magic users, but the girl tells her they'll talk later, the first order of things should be to extinguish the fire before the plain burns down. The chubby one is sad about the pumpkins he'd so very carefully grown, but Isidro and Puck like them just fine as they are. Because the flames are so strong, the witches can't take care of it. The girl says they'll have to call their "guru" (I'm going to use this word repeatedly but just like everything else, it's unconfirmed). Then all of a sudden, the rain comes. Schierke is amazed by that magical power, by the speed at which the weather was controlled. Farnese is curious, so Schierke explains to her that to change nature like that, you normally need a lengthy ceremony.

Of course, this was the work of the "guru" in question. He arrives, appraises the situation and concludes there's no problem. He calls each of the witches by their names, but I don't trust the text enough to write them at this point, so I'll just say that the girl is called something like "Kuka". He praises the three for their scouting, the job they were sent to do, but says he'll need to reprimand Molda later on for her actions. Puck flies up to him and is all familiar, calling him an old man, and the guy calls Puck a naughty boy and salutes him back.

The guy explains that he came too late to welcome them (calling them his guests) and apologizes for the trouble they were caused by his delay. He says that the goat has been aging with him and is apparently slower than the kids now. He gives out his name, but again I'm not comfortable giving it yet. He's one of the magicians that manage the island.

Schierke asks if he knew they'd come here, and he replies that yes, the King of Elves had predicted it. Schierke thinks to herself "then... like I thought the boy is...". The guy gives more details: "The King predicted that a small whirlwind blown from this island would come back as a giant storm, wrapping numerous fates within it." They're all thinking... "Ahh... the small whirlwind..." Then Puck triumphantly proclaims (with "wind" written in his head) that it's him! He has the power of the storm! He goes on: "Although I didn't notice it, I involved everybody in a giant whirlpool of fate." Ivalera is pissed and says it happened purely by chance! Puck keeps going, saying he's really sorry for involving everyone in his story, which continues to bum Ivalera as she points out he's trying to pass for a hero.

The man says there's one more thing. "My old friend showed up in my dream. She asked me to take care of her beloved pupil." Schierke immediately knows who he means. He then exchanges a silent stare with Guts, because that's what cool guys do when they meet. As he leads them, he tells them to rest well from their journey and that he'll tell the elf king about them. Guts comments that the guy seems to know everything, to which Schierke responds that it's how a great magician should be. They come upon trees, and Isidro wonder if it's some kind of artwork. He fools around with it, laughing while wondering what would happen if the tree moved, when it does and snaps his hand. The witches comment that outside humans are as stupid as they'd been told, while Schierke asks him to stop embarrassing her. The witches introduce themselves (and a reluctant Molda) to Schierke and ask her what she's doing with these people.

Schierke explains that they're together because of some mysterious karma, and that the goal of their journey... Then Kuka says "is to bring her sanity back?" but Schierke continues "is to find a peaceful land for the cursed woman". Kuka says that now that she thinks of it, she's heard that the King of the Flower Storm can get deep inside somebody's mind using a "gallery/corridor of dreams", and so that it might be possible to cure Casca. Schierke says "really?!" and Guts smiles. Which in turn makes Farnese look worried/troubled.

The witches comment that they're really great, having crossed the ocean during such a world-shaking time only to get such a small wish. They also tell Schierke that since she's a witch, she must have noticed that great change. The "guru" comments and says they call it the "Great Astral World Something". Again, we'll know once we have the Japanese version. He then goes on to say it's what the one called the Falcon of Light provoked by attacking the Forests of Spiritual Trees all over the world. Everyone in the group is flabbergasted to hear that (and you should be as well). "Falcon of Light?! Forests of Spiritual Trees? What are you talking about?"

The old man says he'll tell them once they're in the village, and tells them to look over there. "That is the Elfhelm of the King of the Flower Storm and our village of magicians."
Isidro wonders how a cherry tree can possibly be that big, and says that the King has a fitting name, because there really is a storm of flower petals going on. We transition to the group's arrival in the village. Schierke comments that she doesn't know why, but she feels a kind of melancholy. They wonder what the witches are doing and are told that they're practicing to probe the Od by grooming tree sprouts. Schierke says she's familiar with it. She used to do it often, although she had no friends. Kuka says she'll introduce them later. Then they're showed where witches teach and learn more advanced skills based on their own unique competences. Magic is practiced everyday. Then there are the "gurus" who are absorbed in their own affairs. Becoming an apprentice to them allows young witches to learn many things.

Farnese is charmed. Serpico comments that it's like a training ground for magic users, before saying that more precisely, it's an academic city. Molda disagrees, calling it a boring village. She says that even if they practice their skills ardently, in the end they'll still be confined to the island. She thinks they're "rotting" in there. Kuka takes issue with that, saying researching nature is the true duty of a witch. Molda doesn't care and wants to know about the outside world. They bicker. Meanwhile the other witches are intrigued by the outsiders, their clothes... They're scared. Isidro, always eager to please, says he'll play the part they want him to, as an entertainer. He promptly gets beaten up. Puck uses that opportunity to go say hello, which surprises them. "You had disappeared suddenly, you really did leave the island?" Then they all try beating on him while recounting all his wrongdoings to each of them. "You took a bath in the cauldron where I made my potion / You created a health hazard in my house / You scribbled on the magic barrier while I did a ritual / You blended my potion with the tea for the great guru". Then they arrive at the old man's house.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Kaladin on June 22, 2016, 07:55:32 PM
Very exciting, this episode is so great, things are moving fast and a lot of important stuff was brought up, the comedy is great as always too, isidro and puck are too good. on the last page i see the numbers (7,15,22) these have to do with the release date of the next episode correct?
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: ApostleBob on June 22, 2016, 07:59:13 PM
WOW! Tons of stuff is happening. It's great that the King of the Flower Storm lives in a Cherry Blossom Tree the size of a building. Very appropriate and iconic. It'll be interesting to see what this gallery of dreams entails. 

More interesting though is this news that the Falcon of Light is attacking Spiritual Trees all over. This seems like more than a reference to Flora's mansion. Could their time on the island already be moving them past events happening elsewhere? Is some type of purge happening outside? The fact that the witches thought Puck was gone for just a day or so, seems to back this up. But time will tell.

Thanks for the fast translation Puella! And thanks Aaz!
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Feeblecursedone on June 22, 2016, 08:06:20 PM
Quote
. It's great that the King of the Flower Storm lives in a Cherry Blossom Tree the size of a building. Very appropriate and iconic. It'll be interesting to see what this gallery of dreams entails. 

Cherry Blossom is kinda interesting. Considering Cherry Blossom is deeply intertwined with japanese culture and literature, especially in poems where they are symbols of fleeting and fragile beauty, as my friend told me. I do hope its not foreshadowing of the fate of the island o.o
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Aazealh on June 22, 2016, 08:06:46 PM
(http://www.aazealh.net/Divers/Games/SoM/ManaTree.gif)

More interesting though is this news that the Falcon of Light is attacking Spiritual Trees all over. This seems like more than a reference to Flora's mansion. Could their time on the island already be moving them past events happening elsewhere? Is some type of purge happening outside?

What is implied is that what happened to Flora was part of a wider phenomenon. It already happened. How it did is not yet clear. But it certainly could explain a looooot of things, like how the Wingstones were formed (crystallized magic stolen from elsewhere?), why astral beasts may be attacking humans and/for Falconia, how the land around Falconia is so bountiful, and how the World Spiral Tree was created.

The fact that the witches thought Puck was gone for just a day or so, seems to back this up.

There's no indication of how long Puck seemed to have been gone for them. And I highly doubt it's just a day or so. Puck spent many years away from Elfhelm.

Very exciting, this episode is so great, things are moving fast and a lot of important stuff was brought up, the comedy is great as always too, isidro and puck are too good. on the last page i see the numbers (7,15,22) these have to do with the release date of the next episode correct?

Yes, the next episode will be released on July 22. The release schedule had already been announced some days ago.

Cherry Blossom is kinda interesting.

It isn't really a surprise. Cherry blossoms were shown when the character was first mentioned, in volume 28.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: MrFlibble on June 22, 2016, 08:13:54 PM
I can't wait for the details on Griffiths attack on magical forests, does this mean that the siege of Flora's mansion wasn't just an isolated attack against one witch, but part of a larger campaign to destroy other Magus colonies? Does this mean Griffith commands other apostles across the world and not just his war demon army?
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Oburi on June 22, 2016, 08:17:22 PM
Kuka kind of reminds me of a young Christina Ricci, from Addams Family Values
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Aazealh on June 22, 2016, 08:24:40 PM
I can't wait for the details on Griffiths attack on magical forests, does this mean that the siege of Flora's mansion wasn't just an isolated attack against one witch, but part of a larger campaign to destroy other Magus colonies? Does this mean Griffith commands other apostles across the world and not just his war demon army?

Like I said on the previous page: "What is implied is that what happened to Flora was part of a wider phenomenon. It already happened. How it did is not yet clear. But it certainly could explain a looooot of things, like how the Wingstones were formed (crystallized magic stolen from elsewhere?), why astral beasts may be attacking humans and/for Falconia, how the land around Falconia is so bountiful, and how the World Spiral Tree was created." Whether other forests like the one Flora lived in were inhabited is unknown, and how or when they were destroyed is unknown as well.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: slowishturtle on June 22, 2016, 08:31:01 PM
Good episode. Looking forward to the next one!  :ubik:
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Delta Phi on June 22, 2016, 08:40:56 PM
Thanks for the summary Aaz. There is so much to digest in this episode, and indeed, Griffith's attack on the Spiritual Trees is incredibly intriguing. I'm glad we won't have to wait very long for an explanation!
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: luizao on June 22, 2016, 09:32:33 PM
Thank you guys as always. Time to enjoy monthly episodes is back!  :badbone:
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Grail on June 22, 2016, 09:36:17 PM
Thanks for the summary Puella and Aaz! As I'd hoped, the amount of text in this episode indicated a big reveal! :badbone:

One of the things that I enjoy about Berserk nowadays is how we're not only seeing events unfold as members here have been predicting for years, but we get these pretty monumental surprises that help shape our understanding of the entire series. I spent much of this episode reflecting on the group's time with Flora and how much she can inform us retroactively about what's coming. I'm gonna be looking through my volume 24 tonight for clues! :ganishka:
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: luizao on June 22, 2016, 10:02:22 PM
A big concern I've had for the last few months is the time skip part of Elfhem. We will know after the japanese translation but I don´t know how to interpretate the pun about Puck missing. Was it because he is one you don't care about in the island or because it was a really short time?

And yes time to reread all Floras pannels  :ubik:
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: MiyamotoPuck on June 22, 2016, 11:00:32 PM
He then exchanges a silent stare with Guts, because that's what cool guys do when they meet.

:ganishka: Thanks a lot for the summary !
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Walter on June 22, 2016, 11:32:26 PM
There hasn't been such an information treasure trove in years. Mouth was agape throughout this episode, and that was before the summary Puella provided. :ubik:

The old men trees reminded me of one of Flora's last lines to Schierke -- for great magic users, death isnt the end, but the beginning of a new kind of existence. I wonder if those entities inhabiting the trees were once old magic users who had their souls transferred to trees to prolong their "lives." Which of course, made me think of our favorite old man knight.  :badbone:

I'm in disbelief of the pace being set in recent episodes. We've already been delivered specifics of how Casca's mind could be restored, and are literally on the doorstep of the Elf King, events more than 14 years in the making.

Fantastic that Puck got such recognition for his involvement in the scope of things.

Also, Morda is looking even more like Krysten Ritter in this ep than the last. I'm convinced. :void:
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: JMP on June 23, 2016, 12:10:04 AM
Thank you for that great summary, puella and Aazealh! Very informative and cleared some things up for me that I had misinterpreted. :???:
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Skeleton on June 23, 2016, 12:34:08 AM
Wow. I'm still trying to process all this new and incredible information, but I wanted to sincerely thank Puella and Aaz for the summary. You two are absolutely amazing.

It's funny seeing the curing of Casca described as a small gift considering how much importance it has to Guts and us, the readers. A subtle testament to just how incredibly powerful the king is perhaps.

I too am curious about hearing more about what Griffith has truly done, and the end result of it, from these magic users (and elves) as well as what they're calling the changing of the world.

Also, Skellig is everything I could have ever dreamed of and then some. After all this time Miura still continues to impress me. What an insanely talented author.

We get to read the work of the greatest manga author on earth, translated by the greatest translator on earth, and discuss it on one of the few truly great forums on the internet. How incredibly lucky are we?
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: jackson_hurley on June 23, 2016, 01:13:51 AM
How incredibly lucky are we?

A lot! Which I take this opportunity to say thx for the summary Aaz and Puella.  :guts:
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Patrick on June 23, 2016, 01:15:18 AM
Thank you so much to Aaz and Puella for the summary!  :ubik:
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: XionHorsey on June 23, 2016, 02:05:05 AM
Quote
Also, Morda is looking even more like Krysten Ritter in this ep than the last. I'm convinced.

Yup. I was thinking the character of Jane, in particular.  For those wondering what I'm talking about, she was a Breaking Bad girl who was a bit rebellious, intelligent and talented.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Aazealh on June 23, 2016, 04:48:57 AM
I don´t know how to interpretate the pun about Puck missing. Was it because he is one you don't care about in the island or because it was a really short time?

There's nothing special to understand. He disappeared one day and they weren't sure why. If it had only been for a short time, people wouldn't have noticed or been surprised. Not sure what's confusing you here to be honest.

I wonder if those entities inhabiting the trees were once old magic users who had their souls transferred to trees to prolong their "lives." Which of course, made me think of our favorite old man knight.  :badbone:

It could be, but I also couldn't help but wonder if the magnitude of what happened to Ganishka didn't impact Skellig somehow. Maybe their spiritual trees were changed in his image. Just a thought.

I'm in disbelief of the pace being set in recent episodes. We've already been delivered specifics of how Casca's mind could be restored, and are literally on the doorstep of the Elf King, events more than 14 years in the making.

Well the King doesn't live in the house at the end of the episode, if that's what you mean by "literally". I think it'll take a few more episodes before we get to see him.
On a side note, I'm pleased that so far the healing process for Casca seems to fit what I had predicted. :guts:

It's funny seeing the curing of Casca described as a small gift considering how much importance it has to Guts and us, the readers. A subtle testament to just how incredibly powerful the king is perhaps.

I think it's more a testament to how much trouble Guts has gone through for Casca, in case anybody had forgotten.

a bit rebellious, intelligent and talented.

That description fits basically half the characters ever invented.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Truder on June 23, 2016, 05:10:13 AM
thanks for the summary Puella and Aaz!

I know the episodes are taking a long time to come out, but the pace of the story itself is a bit fast.  kinda wish Miura would slow it down just a bit (for a little extra world detail i guess). I felt Falconia deserved 1 or 2 more episodes. Still eager for the Elf king though!
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: XionHorsey on June 23, 2016, 05:38:12 AM
Quote
That description fits basically half the characters ever invented.

Sure, but that was all I could think of since I don't think that Morda has Jane's artistic ability or other, er, problems. I just agree that Modra looks a bit like Krysten Ritter , but Jane is the only character she's played that I'm familiar with. So, I tend to think of Jane every time I see Morda even thought they're very different in a lot of ways. Then again, bad judgement could be an issue with Morda too.

At least that's how I see it.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Aazealh on June 23, 2016, 05:57:07 AM
I know the episodes are taking a long time to come out, but the pace of the story itself is a bit fast.  kinda wish Miura would slow it down just a bit (for a little extra world detail i guess). I felt Falconia deserved 1 or 2 more episodes.

That's always how it goes. :slan: But you should trust that Miura knows best.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Uriel on June 23, 2016, 07:12:57 AM
Secured my volume and Young Animal issue early! (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClnwKWbWYAAkOZi.jpg) Quite a happy chap.

What a phenomenal amount of information. The summary definitely helped! Thanks puella.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Aazealh on June 23, 2016, 08:33:25 AM
Secured my volume and Young Animal issue early! (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClnwKWbWYAAkOZi.jpg) Quite a happy chap.

Nice! CDJapan shipped my YA issue yesterday (a Berserk cover is always a good excuse to get a physical copy :iva:) but it'll be a couple weeks before I get it. :judo: Need to find a place where I can get volume 38 and the revamped volume 1 together though.

Anway, since you've got the magazine, would you mind posting the Katakana for each character's name whenever you have the time? That'd allow me to try and work out a spelling. Thanks!
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Uriel on June 23, 2016, 09:20:30 AM
Sure thing.

モルダ = sexy witch Morda
クッカ =  braided, black haired witch Cucha?
ヨニ = young male warlock Yoni?
テューネ = tall light haired witch Chuné?
ゲド大導師様 = Goat Rider Monk - Grand Guru Ged (GGG)

There is also a really long interview with Miura, and a "After Recording" comic strip about Miura and some other people working on the anime. It's pretty neat!

Oh. And "大幽界嘯" is the kanji for the event. The Great Howl of the Underworld...?
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Feeblecursedone on June 23, 2016, 09:56:15 AM
I think its quite obvious Morda will join the party as she wishes to see the outside world. Having a stronger caster than Schierke would be an awesome help.

Also am I the only who thinks Farnese is really cute in this episode? In the panel where everybody and her are looking at Puck standing on top of Isidro's head  :carcus:
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Natt_Himmel on June 23, 2016, 12:42:35 PM
What a treasure chest of information we got. I love this, also thanks Puella and Aaz for the summary and all. !!!  :ubik:
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Hitoshura on June 23, 2016, 02:06:33 PM
Direct scan of the Young Animal 2016 No.13 magazine cover.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cloi2jgVEAI7SWd.jpg)
https://twitter.com/berserk_project/status/745947202204237827
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: JoBoDo on June 23, 2016, 02:28:23 PM
I think its quite obvious Morda will join the party as she wishes to see the outside world. Having a stronger caster than Schierke would be an awesome help.

It's possible that she could join Griffith somehow instead of their group too.. She does seem to be a bit of a troublemaker :P
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Aazealh on June 23, 2016, 05:42:55 PM
Sure thing.

There is also a really long interview with Miura, and a "After Recording" comic strip about Miura and some other people working on the anime. It's pretty neat!

Oh. And "大幽界嘯" is the kanji for the event. The Great Howl of the Underworld...?

Thanks! Having discussed it with puella, I think the event's name should rather be something like "The Great Gust/Blast of the Astral World". Might be better to abandon the "wind" theme for the real meaning of a "big change" though. Also we already knew Molda's name, it was given in the last episode. Could be either be Molda or Morda but personally I favor the former. The others I'd say are probably either Kukka or Cucca, Yoni and Tune (pronounced "neh" at the end, but somehow I don't see Miura using an accent for it). For the old man, "Ged" is only an abbreviation, he actually gives out his full name if you don't mind checking again, it's something like "Gedfring".

Having a stronger caster than Schierke would be an awesome help.

Because Molda can fly on a broom doesn't mean she's "stronger" than Schierke. However I do think she'll become a rival of sorts. It'll be fun to see. :guts:

It's possible that she could join Griffith somehow instead of their group too.. She does seem to be a bit of a troublemaker :P

I don't think there's any possibility of that happening, actually. Being fed up with the established order of things is really quite different from betraying everything you've ever believed in. And given her behavior towards "intruders", I think her allegiance is pretty clear.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: ApostleBob on June 23, 2016, 06:34:52 PM
This is such an info dump! It feels like when the party went to Flora's mansion. And I feel like the best is yet to come in the following episodes. Can't wait to get the implications of the current world laid out by King of the Flower Storm.  Perhaps we'll even get a confirmation on the Moonlight boy's identity (at least for the party).

And then theirs the ritual to restore Casca. Might this happen in the next several episodes? We'll see.

But back to this episode, Aaz, are you sure the mention of the other Spiritual Trees being attacked is something that was going on off screen before the world merging? The mention of time flowing much faster outside the island seems to be recurring, and the witches seem to be referring to it regarding Puck as well. Maybe I read Puella's translation wrong, but aren't they asking if he really left since it didn't seem like he disappeared for that long?

It doesn't change the fact that the Trees were attacked, but the stakes would certainly be upped if every moment they are there Griffith is tightening his grip on the mainland.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Henry Spencer on June 23, 2016, 06:47:24 PM
Corridor of Dreams, eh? And soon meeting the Elf King to boot? This is certainly going to be interesting.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Aazealh on June 23, 2016, 07:49:11 PM
Can't wait to get the implications of the current world laid out by King of the Flower Storm.  Perhaps we'll even get a confirmation on the Moonlight boy's identity (at least for the party).

The guru will be the one doing the explaining, at least in episode 345. The group will probably not be going to see the King of the Flower Storm until at least a few more episodes. And the topic of the boy is interesting, but I wonder if Schierke will get anything more than a simple denial ("we didn't send an emissary") at first. I feel like the reveal of his true identity will be staggered and possibly tied to Casca's restoration.

But back to this episode, Aaz, are you sure the mention of the other Spiritual Trees being attacked is something that was going on off screen before the world merging?

That is what the text says. But then again, I put a disclaimer on there for a reason.

The mention of time flowing much faster outside the island seems to be recurring, and the witches seem to be referring to it regarding Puck as well. Maybe I read Puella's translation wrong, but aren't they asking if he really left since it didn't seem like he disappeared for that long?

I already answered that twice in the thread. They are not implying that it has been a short time, just voicing their disbelief that he'd left the island instead of, I don't know, dying or hiding out or something. It's not specified. And the old man greets Puck by saying "it's been a long time".

Now even putting that aside, keep in mind that Puck and Judo had met before the Band of the Falcon was even a thing. So Puck has been away for several years at the very least, and for all we know he's been roaming the world for 30 years. If it had been so short a time, that'd mean 5 years would go by everyday or something, which is simply untenable from a storytelling perspective. So please ease up on that front guys, we'll get there eventually.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: ApostleBob on June 23, 2016, 08:02:04 PM
I already answered that twice in the thread. They are not implying that it has been a short time, just voicing their disbelief that he'd left the island instead of, I don't know, dying or hiding out or something. It's not specified. And the old man greets Puck by saying "it's been a long time".

Now even putting that aside, keep in mind that Puck and Judo had met before the Band of the Falcon was even a thing. So Puck has been away for several years at the very least, and for all we know he's been roaming the world for 30 years. If it had been so short a time, that'd mean 5 years would go by everyday or something, which is simply untenable from a storytelling perspective. So please ease up on that front guys, we'll get there eventually.

Gotcha. That makes sense. I must have read what you had wrong earlier. Still, great episode!
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Aazealh on June 23, 2016, 08:18:43 PM
Still, great episode!

Agreed. One thing I was telling Gobolatula the other day is that I'm not sure many people realize what a historic time in Berserk this is. Not that every episode isn't awesome, but we're really at a pivotal moment in the series, more so than the Eclipse was. What is happening right now will set the story on a trajectory towards its ending. Those who thought volume 24 was an incredible expansion of what we know of the Berserk world should probably hold on to their seats because volume 39 will not fuck around.

Another thing I was thinking just now, prompted by what Schierke says she felt when she saw the plain with the tree. We were never told anything about her origins. We don't know how Flora came to take custody of this green-haired girl. Some light might be shed on this in the coming episodes as well.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: ApostleBob on June 23, 2016, 08:51:38 PM
Agreed. One thing I was telling Gobolatula the other day is that I'm not sure many people realize what a historic time in Berserk this is. Not that every episode isn't awesome, but we're really at a pivotal moment in the series, more so than the Eclipse was. What is happening right now will set the story on a trajectory towards its ending. Those who thought volume 24 was an incredible expansion of what we know of the Berserk world should probably hold on to their seats because volume 39 will not fuck around.

Yeah no kidding. I've often thought the amount of hiatus's have had something to do with this too. Whatever choices Miura makes here are going to really affect the direction the story takes from here on out. And it's not very predicable at all as all the various speculations for the last decade have shown. So it makes perfect sense that he'd take his time to get it right and really outline what direction he wants to steer the ending to, and how he wants to handle Casca regaining her sanity, a conflict we've had since VOLUME 13!  So yeah, as Skull Knight would say, we're approaching a 'Temporal Junction Point' for the series.

Another thing I was thinking just now, prompted by what Schierke says she felt when she saw the plain with the tree. We were never told anything about her origins. We don't know how Flora came to take custody of this green-haired girl. Some light might be shed on this in the coming episodes as well.

Too true. We know she wasn't Flora's daughter, and they were both pretty isolated out there. I guess I always assumed she was some type of orphan that Flora took pity on and decided to train. Have we really ever discussed the green hair aspect of her character? I had always just assumed it was a fantasy thing and style choice by Miura, but perhaps there's more to it. The only other person we know of with 'unnatural' hair is Isma, and she has mixed blood.  Could Schierke be from Skellig? I guess we'll find out.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: jackson_hurley on June 23, 2016, 09:00:30 PM
Could Schierke be from Skellig? I guess we'll find out.

That's because she's... AN ALIEN! The series is gonna turn sci-fi in a few years.  :ganishka:

But joke aside, that's an interesting fact you are mentioning.


are you sure the mention of the other Spiritual Trees being attacked is something that was going on off screen before the world merging?


Well it'd make sense to me since I don't think Flora was the only magic user in the world outside of Elfhelm.


Another thing I was thinking just now, prompted by what Schierke says she felt when she saw the plain with the tree. We were never told anything about her origins. We don't know how Flora came to take custody of this green-haired girl. Some light might be shed on this in the coming episodes as well.

Shit! I've never even thought about that but you're right. We know nothing about her past. Could be very cool to learn more about her.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Aazealh on June 23, 2016, 09:12:53 PM
Have we really ever discussed the green hair aspect of her character? I had always just assumed it was a fantasy thing and style choice by Miura, but perhaps there's more to it. The only other person we know of with 'unnatural' hair is Isma, and she has mixed blood.

There certainly were a lot of discussions about her hair when its color was first revealed. Let me tell you, some people were very angry about it. As for Isma, I'm not sure we can really speak of mixed blood. Since all merrows seem to be women, I assume they normally reproduce with humans.

Well it'd make sense to me since I don't think Flora was the only magic user in the world outside of Elfhelm.

Keep in mind this doesn't mean all spiritual trees were inhabited by witches.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: jackson_hurley on June 23, 2016, 09:15:59 PM

Keep in mind this doesn't mean all spiritual trees were inhabited by witches.

Oh okay yeah, that's true indeed. I did not took that way. Thx for clearing it up, as always!  :serpico:

But do you in your opinion think that other magic users could have taken residence near a spiritual tree? It seem convenient for when you just want your last years to be peaceful.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: MrFlibble on June 23, 2016, 10:29:33 PM
Like I said on the previous page: "What is implied is that what happened to Flora was part of a wider phenomenon. It already happened. How it did is not yet clear. But it certainly could explain a looooot of things, like how the Wingstones were formed (crystallized magic stolen from elsewhere?), why astral beasts may be attacking humans and/for Falconia, how the land around Falconia is so bountiful, and how the World Spiral Tree was created." Whether other forests like the one Flora lived in were inhabited is unknown, and how or when they were destroyed is unknown as well.

I always Chalked it up to the magic inside Ganishkas second incarnation. But it's strongly hinted that Falconia is an adapted version of Gaeserics city. Who knows what else was stolen. It was the war demons objective to kill Flora, not to burn down the forest, however one strange thing they did mention explicitly was that they wanted to cut Floras head off and bring it back with them, maybe Griffith is harvesting Witches bodies.

Agreed. One thing I was telling Gobolatula the other day is that I'm not sure many people realize what a historic time in Berserk this is. Not that every episode isn't awesome, but we're really at a pivotal moment in the series, more so than the Eclipse was. What is happening right now will set the story on a trajectory towards its ending. Those who thought volume 24 was an incredible expansion of what we know of the Berserk world should probably hold on to their seats because volume 39 will not fuck around.

It's really exciting, we've only seen glimpses of Fantasia, to get a broad perspective on what's happening will be very interesting. Fingers crossed they talk about the God Hand, they're the biggest loose thread in the series, hopefully we'll get some clues about their end game and where they are. I'd be surprised if they didn't expand on pre God Hand history.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Squiddot on June 24, 2016, 04:59:36 AM
however one strange thing they did mention explicitly was that they wanted to cut Floras head off and bring it back with them, maybe Griffith is harvesting Witches bodies.

It's most likely this was just referencing the popular trope of bringing a target's head back as confirmation they didn't escape the assassination. Griffith evidently wanted to be certain Flora was out of the picture.

Fingers crossed they talk about the God Hand.

I do agree that this is the perfect time for that though! Especially if we see Skullknight on the island somewhere, which i think is pretty likely. It'll just be a matter of seguing from describing the current state of the world > Falconia > Gaiserics Former capitol/a previous Godhand reincarnation  > Gaiseric > Godhand, or some other equivalent.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Khalamir on June 24, 2016, 05:44:39 AM
Interesting. So Puck was quite the prankster during his time in Elfhelm :ganishka:
I hope he gets some significant development now that we're finally here. He's been stuck on the backburner for a long time.

I'm curious about this corridor of dreams Kukka was talking about. Maybe Casca's restoration will involve a traversable dreamworld of sorts (like in Psychonauts for example, only hopefully with less acrobatics), I know this idea was bounced around a bit beforehand.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: PsychoViper on June 24, 2016, 09:58:48 AM
Hey guys, this is my first post :)
Anybody else notice that the same wizard we first saw getting his day ruined in one of Puck's flashbacks appeared again in the new episode?
http://i.imgur.com/NGQw6Um.png
I hope we get to hear his account of Puck's behaviour on Skellig haha
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Uriel on June 24, 2016, 12:05:39 PM
Thanks! Having discussed it with puella, I think the event's name should rather be something like "The Great Gust/Blast of the Astral World". Might be better to abandon the "wind" theme for the real meaning of a "big change" though.

Yeah, I trust you guys. Had a hard time finding the kanji. Not quite sure why 'Astral' is your go-to. I thought of it as 'Underworld' or some kind of parallel, unseen world. Either way, the otherworldly feeling is conveyed by any of them.

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Also we already knew Molda's name, it was given in the last episode. Could be either be Molda or Morda but personally I favor the former. The others I'd say are probably either Kukka or Cucca, Yoni and Tune (pronounced "neh" at the end, but somehow I don't see Miura using an accent for it).

Happily deferring to you guys for the female witches, but I like Morda is better.  =)

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For the old man, "Ged" is only an abbreviation, he actually gives out his full name if you don't mind checking again, it's something like "Gedfring".

Gah, sorry. ゲドフリン Gedring or Gedfrin, I'd wager.

Hey guys, this is my first post :)
Anybody else notice that the same wizard we first saw getting his day ruined in one of Puck's flashbacks appeared again in the new episode?
I hope we get to hear his account of Puck's behaviour on Skellig haha

Haha, good catch!
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Feeblecursedone on June 24, 2016, 04:12:30 PM
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Because Molda can fly on a broom doesn't mean she's "stronger" than Schierke. However I do think she'll become a rival of sorts. It'll be fun to se

She's older and she has been living with many great mages. Even if she's not more powerful, she's for sure more experienced. And sure, fun to see. Maybe she develops a thing for Serpico, or you know, Guts scores another fangirl.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Walter on June 24, 2016, 04:27:43 PM
She's older and she has been living with many great mages. Even if she's not more powerful, she's for sure more experienced.

No, not necessarily. Schierke has been performing on the field of battle, searching deep for astral entities where there are none, and still coming back with a source of power. By Molda's own admission, she's trapped on the island, and I can't imagine she has much comparable experience.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Feeblecursedone on June 24, 2016, 04:32:36 PM
Well, its possible. Can't say im too much interested in her power  :guts: Rather it would be nice to see a counter-reaction to an outside world, as we now see Guts' party reaction to the Island. It's quickly turning into a large scale rpg party at this rate.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: RaffoBaffo on June 24, 2016, 05:31:53 PM
I'm truly curious, but I don't know how it work, so, eventually, excuse me for the stupid question.

It's possible that Miura has gone full digital?

It's possible something like this, with an "hand made style"?

1 (http://i.imgur.com/YF7KEmg.jpg) [Page 10]
2 (http://i.imgur.com/2m4ExAD.jpg) [Double page 16/17]
3 (http://i.imgur.com/baw14Yn.jpg)  [Last page]

There is the same scheme in Episode 342, page 12/13 (double page)
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Aazealh on June 24, 2016, 05:56:06 PM
Yeah, I trust you guys. Had a hard time finding the kanji. Not quite sure why 'Astral' is your go-to.

Because Miura used the katakana アストラル (Astral) for the word when it was first introduced. It's the same for almost all proper names in Berserk.
 
Happily deferring to you guys for the female witches, but I like Morda is better.  =)

There will be no way to know for sure until official confirmation, although it should be noted that names like that with an 'R' can be spelled with a long vowel, like Morgan (モーガン) for example. Meanwhile, names with an 'L' tend to use 'ル', like Moldavia (モルダビア) or Mulder (ムルダー).

Gah, sorry. ゲドフリン Gedring or Gedfrin, I'd wager.

Hmm. Maybe Gedflynn? The name "Flynn" is usually spelled "フリン" in Japanese. Can't think of anything better.

Hey guys, this is my first post :)
Anybody else notice that the same wizard we first saw getting his day ruined in one of Puck's flashbacks appeared again in the new episode?

Hello PsychoViper, welcome! Yeah I noticed, found it cute. :guts: Miura's usual attention to detail.

She's older and she has been living with many great mages. Even if she's not more powerful, she's for sure more experienced.

Same thing Walter said: I think Schierke actually has more experience. Molda is no doubt talented however and I'm sure their relationship will prove to be interesting.

And sure, fun to see. Maybe she develops a thing for Serpico

Ahhhh yes, thank you for mentioning this. While her attitude doesn't make it immediately obviously, I've long wondered whether Serpico would find a new love interest on Skellig. You might be on to something here.

I'm truly curious, but I don't know how it work, so, eventually, excuse me for the stupid question.

It's possible that Miura has gone full digital?

It's possible something like this, with an "hand made style"?

1 (http://i.imgur.com/YF7KEmg.jpg) [Page 10]
2 (http://i.imgur.com/2m4ExAD.jpg) [Double page 16/17]
3 (http://i.imgur.com/baw14Yn.jpg)  [Last page]

There is the same scheme in Episode 342, page 12/13 (double page)

I don't know if Miura's moved to digital or not, and I don't think we can tell with low quality scans. However I just compared those pictures up close (specifically Azan and Roderick), and they're similar but different. So digital or traditional, I think what happened here is the assistant in charge of background characters got a little lazy (or is still learning his trade) and just drew very similar poses.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Vixen Comics on June 24, 2016, 06:58:54 PM
I am very pleased to see this come out and that it was actually earlier than the release date! I am also happy that the buring doll fight was over extremely quickly instead of it being dragged out for half the episode.  I also got a better insight of Morda's character. For some reason her appearance last episode irritated me and I can't quite figure out why. Her revealing outfit was something I found a bit garish. I think it was because she was adding more obstacle to the meeting of the the elf king and I got annoyed with that. I may be in the minority but I am not fond of the flying on a broomstick thing.

I really like seeing the other witches and that there seems to be a good number of male witches instead of it being over whelmingly female. I was most interested in seeing the culture and customs of the magic users what with there being gurus and apprentices under each guru. I also like how the magic users concentrate on nature. I really loved the decor and how it is very similar to Flora's mansion.

Summary courtesy of puella:

The girl says they'll have to call their "guru" (I'm going to use this word repeatedly but just like everything else, it's unconfirmed). Then all of a sudden, the rain comes. Schierke is amazed by that magical power, by the speed at which the weather was controlled. Farnese is curious, so Schierke explains to her that to change nature like that, you normally need a lengthy ceremony.

Of course, this was the work of the "guru" in question. He arrives, appraises the situation and concludes there's no problem. He calls each of the witches by their names, but I don't trust the text enough to write them at this point, so I'll just say that the girl is called something like "Kuka". He praises the three for their scouting, the job they were sent to do, but says he'll need to reprimand Molda later on for her actions.

I really liked this guy and his entrance and the fact that Schierke says that controlling the weather is not an easy feat to do makes his powers seem all the more impressive. Not sure yet how I feel about the other three witches but I am glad they were not hostile or prejudice toward Schierke like some people on here had feared. They seemed to take her in stride for the most part. I can't wait to know more about them. Based off of the way the other witches exasperation toward Morda it seem she is kind of annoying to them. I am interested in knowing more about the guru apprentice relationship in the context of magic user culture.

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The guy explains that he came too late to welcome them (calling them his guests) and apologizes for the trouble they were caused by his delay.

Schierke asks if he knew they'd come here, and he replies that yes, the King of Elves had predicted it. Schierke thinks to herself "then... like I thought the boy is...". The guy gives more details: "The King predicted that a small whirlwind blown from this island would come back as a giant storm, wrapping numerous fates within it." They're all thinking... "Ahh... the small whirlwind..."

I was happy beyond measure that guts and companies arrival was foretold and that the magic users were expecting them and that the elf king predicted their arrival. This for me laid a lot of the fears I had to rest because I was afraid that there would be conflict of getting accepted on the island and getting to the elf king to help them. But being described (at least in this translation) as the guests and that the guru came there specifically to fetch them makes me really happy about this rolling along.  :ubik: It will be interested in hearing the truth about the moonlight boy being revealed to everyone (and dispelling Schierke's misconceptions) and hopefully getting more insight about him.

I'm really also really glad that Puck has been given a some significance for having a hand in everything (much to Ivalera's chagrin)  :ganishka:

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He then exchanges a silent stare with Guts, because that's what cool guys do when they meet. As he leads them, he tells them to rest well from their journey and that he'll tell the elf king about them.

I really like this look the guru gave Guts, but I was not too sure that Guts had looked back at him. either way I loved that this was the first time the guru bothered to open his eyes.

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Schierke explains that they're together because of some mysterious karma, and that the goal of their journey... Then Kuka says "is to bring her sanity back?" but Schierke continues "is to find a peaceful land for the cursed woman". Kuka says that now that she thinks of it, she's heard that the King of the Flower Storm can get deep inside somebody's mind using a "gallery/corridor of dreams", and so that it might be possible to cure Casca. Schierke says "really?!" and Guts smiles. Which in turn makes Farnese look worried/troubled.

The witches comment that they're really great, having crossed the ocean during such a world-shaking time only to get such a small wish.

I loved hearing about how the elf king might be able to cure Casca because up until now it has been really just speculation on how he might do it, and I am glad that it is something he can do by delving into her mind/soul. This has concerned me for a while because I imagined it as being a somewhat violent or intrusive process that would rip a person's mind to sanity by force and be a traumatic even violating experience for the person involved. But this "gallery/corridor of dreams" process seems altogether more...gentle? It seems like a more peaceful and calm way than what I imagined because I assumed her restoration would involve a hellish bombardment of the rape flooding her mind and forcing her to face it against her will. But something I am hoping for when/if this how it will go down that we get to see some more intimate insight into Casca the person, since she has been absent for so long. I'm really hungry for some Casca focus. I also hope this method involves her consent to come back rather it being forced on her.

On side not I wonder if Casca might sense what is about to happen to her and become afraid instinctively of the elf king, since he will be drawing her out of the solace of her current state. Casca has been shown to react fearfully whenever some external stimulate remind her of her ore deal and she has flash backs of it?

I noticed that Farnese was a little worried of Casca coming back, I hope there isn't too much drama over this. It is honestly my not favorite plot development.  :farnese:

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They also tell Schierke that since she's a witch, she must have noticed that great change. The "guru" comments and says they call it the "Great Astral World Something". Again, we'll know once we have the Japanese version. He then goes on to say it's what the one called the Falcon of Light provoked by attacking the Forests of Spiritual Trees all over the world. Everyone in the group is flabbergasted to hear that (and you should be as well). "Falcon of Light?! Forests of Spiritual Trees? What are you talking about?"

holy crap...I can't wait to hear more on this!

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They wonder what the witches are doing and are told that they're practicing to probe the Od by grooming tree sprouts. Schierke says she's familiar with it. She used to do it often, although she had no friends. Kuka says she'll introduce them later.


I thought this was sweet. I love the prospect of Schierke having people to relate to and having friends. I also wonder how they will be with someone like Farnese who is late to the magic user game age wise.

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Molda disagrees, calling it a boring village. She says that even if they practice their skills ardently, in the end they'll still be confined to the island. She thinks they're "rotting" in there. Kuka takes issue with that, saying researching nature is the true duty of a witch. Molda doesn't care and wants to know about the outside world. They bicker.

I'm not sure how I feel about this character yet, but it is obvious that she is probably going to go with Guts and company when they eventually leave. I just don't know if I care for her personality yet. Somehow I don't trust her not to be some what troublesome.

Side not, but i am not liking how pale Casca is looking in these panels. She is as pale as everyone else right now, and her skin tone was such a unique physical characteristic of hers.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Rupert Sinclair on June 24, 2016, 08:15:50 PM

I don't know if Miura's moved to digital or not, and I don't think we can tell with low quality scans.

Just got my Young Animal and the episode looks the same as ever.  Except maybe the spread with the view looking out over the valley, I'm not really sure what's going on there.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Aazealh on June 24, 2016, 08:35:14 PM
I'm really also really glad that Puck has been given a some significance for having a hand in everything (much to Ivalera's chagrin)

Yeah this was cool. I hope it gets elaborated on when the meet the King.

I really like this look the guru gave Guts, but I was not too sure that Guts had looked back at him. either way I loved that this was the first time the guru bothered to open his eyes.

Guts looks at him directly in a full panel. Also the guy had opened his eye before that while talking to Schierke.

this "gallery/corridor of dreams" process seems altogether more...gentle? It seems like a more peaceful and calm way than what I imagined

There is no telling what it will take for her to be restored. Convincing her to face what happened might very well be key to the process.

On side not I wonder if Casca might sense what is about to happen to her and become afraid instinctively of the elf king, since he will be drawing her out of the solace of her current state. Casca has been shown to react fearfully whenever some external stimulate remind her of her ore deal and she has flash backs of it?

Are you seriously comparing an assault by thugs to the healing magic of the King of the Flower Storm?

Side not, but i am not liking how pale Casca is looking in these panels.

It's been said countless times that there's a number of gross filters that denature the artwork on those scans, not that it even needs to be said if you look carefully. The fact Casca is dark skinned really isn't up for debate.

Just got my Young Animal and the episode looks the same as ever.  Except maybe the spread with the view looking out over the valley, I'm not really sure what's going on there.

Hmm, thanks, I'm curious to see it for myself now!
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Feeblecursedone on June 24, 2016, 09:49:14 PM
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I really like this look the guru gave Guts, but I was not too sure that Guts had looked back at him. either way I loved that this was the first time the guru bothered to open his eyes.

As Aaz said, its the cool guys stare. Guts just doesn't get impressed that easily, regardless of someone's appearance or abilities.  :guts: I imagine Guru was able to get the rough reading of Guts just from that one glance. Cause ya know, cool wise guy.

Quote
I thought this was sweet. I love the prospect of Schierke having people to relate to and having friends. I also wonder how they will be with someone like Farnese who is late to the magic user game age wise.

It looks like a place Schierke will probably settle in later on.

Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Resonance on June 24, 2016, 11:39:24 PM
After giving this episode a run through, I don't really have much to contribute besides comments others have already stated  :ganishka: however I do have a few thoughts I would like to share.

The Old Sage (not sure what his real name is) has shown himself to be quite the powerful magician, being able to form a thunderstorm in a short span of time and all. However it seems that his magic may have repercussions from what I have read, but the translation I saw was not perfect so it's possible this may be dismissed.

The whimsical nature of Elfhelm really reminds of 2 Hirasawa songs. The songs being Lotus and Niwashi King, maybe the lyrics may not share a lot in common with how Elfhelm is presented but the images accompanying the music is quite similar. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-sMzNEd7EE and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZmxV1SdfDI This is more coincidental than anything btw just speaking thoughts aloud  :serpico:
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Oburi on June 25, 2016, 03:08:11 AM
Agreed. One thing I was telling Gobolatula the other day is that I'm not sure many people realize what a historic time in Berserk this is. Not that every episode isn't awesome, but we're really at a pivotal moment in the series, more so than the Eclipse was. What is happening right now will set the story on a trajectory towards its ending. Those who thought volume 24 was an incredible expansion of what we know of the Berserk world should probably hold on to their seats because volume 39 will not fuck around.

I was thinking about this too. It's been almost 10 years since I started reading the current episodic releases of Berserk.  By that time, the group had left Flora, Schierke had joined the group, and Ganishka was in the middle of waging his war on Midland. Since I've been reading on an episodic level I've yet to experience a moment when Guts and his group could truly relax in relative safety and absorb a wealth of new information about the world in general.  I can only imagine how crazy this must be for people who have been reading even further back. At least to to the beginning of the Millennium Falcon Arc, episode 183, when Puck first exclaimed that they should travel to the one place where Casca may find help. His home. That volume came out 12/24/01. I was 13 years old at that time. It's crazy to think about.

It's almost a religious experience. This is finally it. We have finally arrived. The characters are finally on the threshold and us readers are closer than ever to getting so many answers, and even better, possibly experiencing the return of Casca. You know how people must feel when a new Star Wars movie comes out?  like those mega fans that can't even comprehend that they're living in a moment when a NEW Star Wars movie is being released. For me, being able to read a new Berserk episode with a restored Casca is that moment. Everything that I know and love about a classic character like her is all from the past. Since I started following Berserk, I've only known Casca as she is now. 10 years of following this series and I can't believe that could change. I'd almost forgot that it was going to happen someday.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Aazealh on June 25, 2016, 07:33:38 AM
It looks like a place Schierke will probably settle in later on.

Hehe, hard to guess so long in advance. I think the fact it's so secluded may be a barrier to her settling there. I see her more following in Flora's steps later in life, but that's really a long ways to go anyway. I'm not sure it will even be addressed in the story.

The Old Sage (not sure what his real name is)

Right now my preference goes to "Gedflynn". But keep in mind it's impossible to know for sure. It's a name Miura invented and it could be many different things. Anyway, since he and other characters abbreviate his name as Ged, you can just use that for convenience.

the translation I saw was not perfect so it's possible this may be dismissed.

Reading shitty translations will only ever serve to confuse you. I don't recommend it.

You know how people must feel when a new Star Wars movie comes out?  like those mega fans that can't even comprehend that they're living in a moment when a NEW Star Wars movie is being released. For me, being able to read a new Berserk episode with a restored Casca is that moment. Everything that I know and love about a classic character like her is all from the past.

Hah! Star Wars has got nothing on this, because this will actually be good. Better than good. :slan:

Now after reading your post I was actually daydreaming about Casca doing some sword training against Serpico and losing herself in the heat of the fight, and then surprising him by really going for the kill. Then I imagined a scenario where Guts would be stricken down by an enemy and Casca picked up the Berserk's armor to save him, with the helmet taking on the shape of an emotionless mask but with tears. I usually don't post about these random ideas because they're just my imagination but I think it illustrates the limitless potential that's ahead of us.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Cyrus Jong on June 25, 2016, 09:23:49 AM
No, not necessarily. Schierke has been performing on the field of battle, searching deep for astral entities where there are none, and still coming back with a source of power. By Molda's own admission, she's trapped on the island, and I can't imagine she has much comparable experience.
Now, now, I don't think we should dismiss Molda entirely. I mean, sure Schierke has more worldly experience, has been in more terrifying situations, has had to use her magic to fight and kill, has been teaching another the ways of magic, and so on. But Molda's awesome power has our favorite witch beat in one particular area.

She can defy even the unstoppable force of gravity to keep her hat on!

(http://i.imgur.com/Slsq7Fu.png)

Can Schierke keep her hat on? No! It takes only a slight breeze, a pesky elf (http://i.imgur.com/MJaNXBd.png), or an insolent monkey (http://i.imgur.com/HmoN4j1.png) for her headware to start rolling away.

Anyway, if Molda is to join the crew, I wonder what effect that would have on Farnese, if any? I've always thought that her training to be a witch was so that she would continue to have a purpose in the team dynamic (and narrative) once Casca no longer required her babying, and learning magic has indeed been helping the girl feel better about herself. But would the presence of another witch (or two, or three) wreck her confidence again since she would possibly feel even more redundant than ever before? Farnese already has enough mixed feelings wherever Guts and Casca are concerned.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Skeleton on June 26, 2016, 04:55:24 AM
So how to you guys think the next few episodes are going to play out?

It looks like we're going to be getting a similar situation to when the crew arrived at Flora's, where the crew can rest for a bit while we get more information about the world and what's going on through dialogue.

But what's interesting to me is that the time at Flora's was a short respite before the crew continued on their difficult journey whereas this time we're presumably going from this "info dump" to the king who may provide another one. I'm curious as to how this will all play out. Will they both provide info but on different subjects (Ged talks about the island/witches/magic/changes to the world and the king talks about bigger subjects like the GH and their goals/actions, IoE, causality, SK, the past, what must be done, etc)? Will Ged supply all or most of the information and the king's time will be focused on Casca and helping her? Will the information come before or after (or both) Casca's healing and the resulting emotional/team dynamic fallout? Will either Ged or the king tell them something before curing Casca that the group will keep from her, at least temporarily ("in exchange for this I kind of have to go kill Femto")? Will the king address Guts' own broken mind, and maybe free him from the beast, or will he successfully hide it?
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Imperator Hanseatic on June 26, 2016, 05:16:27 AM
Will the king address Guts' own broken mind, and maybe free him from the beast, or will he successfully hide it?

I don't think the King of the Flower Storm is someone you could really hide things from, but then again we haven't actually met him yet. However, it would be interesting to have him address the issue of the Beast in some way.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Skeleton on June 26, 2016, 09:01:26 AM
I don't think the King of the Flower Storm is someone you could really hide things from, but then again we haven't actually met him yet.

Why not? We've seen far less powerful entities (spectres) know, at the very least, about the beast's existence, but they were human-based and had a more direct "link" to humanity's darker side.

Knowing about or feeling what the beast represents and knowing that it stems from a trauma that requires healing are also two different things.

Also keep in mind that that aspect of Guts' mind is currently on the down low, making it that much harder to "see." If Guts's mind was still actively fighting itself it'd probably be a lot easier to notice.

The possibilities are endless, to me, when it comes to this specific question. I could see him being healed, and I can see it never even being addressed by the king or just commented on. Admittedly though, healing Guts would take a large factor out of play when it comes to him deciding to leave Skellig to go after Griffith.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Imperator Hanseatic on June 26, 2016, 09:22:04 AM
Why not? We've seen far less powerful entities (spectres) know, at the very least, about the beast's existence, but they were human-based and had a more direct "link" to humanity's darker side.

Knowing about or feeling what the beast represents and knowing that it stems from a trauma that requires healing are also two different things.

Also keep in mind that that aspect of Guts' mind is currently on the down low, making it that much harder to "see." If Guts's mind was still actively fighting itself it'd probably be a lot easier to notice.

I was more getting at the idea that if somehow the King didn't notice the Beast, it'd be less because Guts was able to "hide" it from him and more that the King didn't look for it in the first place.

Perhaps we're experiencing some kind of miscommunication here but your original message I replied to gave me the impression via phrasing that Guts would be specifically trying to hide the Beast for some reason.

I'm almost certain that the Beast will be addressed in some way whilst on Skellig and the possibilities are indeed great, though personally I'd be disappointed if Guts was "freed" from the Beast entirely (especially without some kind of challenge).
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Aazealh on June 26, 2016, 11:18:27 AM
It looks like we're going to be getting a similar situation to when the crew arrived at Flora's, where the crew can rest for a bit while we get more information about the world and what's going on through dialogue.

Yes.

Will they both provide info but on different subjects (Ged talks about the island/witches/magic/changes to the world and the king talks about bigger subjects like the GH and their goals/actions, IoE, causality, SK, the past, what must be done, etc)?

They will probably touch upon different topics. The King may provide insight into the future, as well as expound upon what's going on in the world beyond what Ged will have said. He could also shed some light on the Moonlight Boy if Schierke asks him. As for the Skull Knight, who knows. He might even show up himself directly.

Will the information come before or after (or both) Casca's healing and the resulting emotional/team dynamic fallout?

Members of the group will undoubtedly learn things before and after they go meet the King of the Flower Storm.

Will the king address Guts' own broken mind, and maybe free him from the beast, or will he successfully hide it?

I believe he will address it. The Beast of Darkness is a very prominent and obvious part of Guts' psyche, one that anyone delving into his mind immediately stumbles upon, as Schierke showed us in volume 26. Any elf can already perceive human emotions, as demonstrated by Puck's insights into Guts' mind, so there's really no way the King of Elves would not see it. And you mention Guts trying to hide it, but he doesn't even really realize its existence himself, since it's just a personification of his feelings/trauma, so I don't see how that could possibly work.

That being said, the idea that he could be "healed" or "delivered" from the Beast of Darkness seems unlikely to me. The feelings that the Beast embodies aren't entirely detrimental to Guts, they fuel his fighting spirit even in the darkest hour. What would rather be interesting to see, and what I believe is the most likely outcome, is that Guts might be able to "tame" the Beast of Darkness so that he can "tap" into it when he needs it. Basically it could be put to use in a more efficient, more controled manner.

Now where this gets more complicated is that the Beast of Darkness in itself is only half the problem. Where it poses a real danger is when combined with the Berserk's armor, since the armor's fiery Od engulfs Guts and drowns his consciousness with those violent feelings. So keep in mind that a palliative may also be applied to the armor itself, something akin to the talisman Flora carved inside of it. It may be one or the other or a combination of both.

Why not? We've seen far less powerful entities (spectres) know, at the very least, about the beast's existence, but they were human-based and had a more direct "link" to humanity's darker side. Knowing about or feeling what the beast represents and knowing that it stems from a trauma that requires healing are also two different things. Also keep in mind that that aspect of Guts' mind is currently on the down low, making it that much harder to "see." If Guts's mind was still actively fighting itself it'd probably be a lot easier to notice.

I don't think any of that makes for a compelling argument. I bet the King will notice that something's up with Guts without any trouble. The real question is what will be done about it.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Squiddot on June 26, 2016, 12:06:15 PM
One thing that's really sticking out for me in the summary (and thanks for that, Puella and Aaz) is Schierke's offhand remark that she feels melancholy.

Now, I'm not sure if its intended to be read as she feels melancholy personally or she feels an air of melancholy around Elfhelm and both of those could imply different things.

Getting the obvious stuff out of the way Schierke could personally feel melancholy because she's worried the journey has come to an end and everyone will go their separate ways. Or deeper down she's worried that Casca's arrival will put a greater strain on her and Guts' bond. But an air of melancholy around the whole island could be something much more far reaching. It could be that the Elf King is dying, or has foreseen the destruction of the island at the hands of Griffith. I'd like to hear what other people are making of it.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Aazealh on June 26, 2016, 12:18:27 PM
One thing that's really sticking out for me in the summary (and thanks for that, Puella and Aaz) is Schierke's offhand remark that she feels melancholy.

Don't pay too much attention to that, she says that as they arrive in the village and it's more like she feels she's missed this kind of place, because it's all familiar to her.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Feeblecursedone on June 26, 2016, 03:07:05 PM
Elf King might know a way how to permanently kill a God Hand member, now that they're in their corporeal form, albeit I assume even then its gonna be extremely difficult. That also opens up a question as to what happens when a God Hand member dies, is their essence returned to vortex of souls or something else entirely? It ought to have a huge effect on the world.

Curious about Guts' next " upgrade " as well. I dont think Dragon Slayer and Berserker armour will cut it, alone. Albeit im not sure how I feel about Guts getting magic or something like that. Then again, he has shown to be pragmatic enough to use anything that will get him a victory even if he's not a fan of it.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Skeleton on June 27, 2016, 01:53:06 AM
Perhaps we're experiencing some kind of miscommunication here but your original message I replied to gave me the impression via phrasing that Guts would be specifically trying to hide the Beast for some reason.

First, I'd like to just say that I'm just trying to foster a discussion in this thread because I'm so amped up from getting Berserk back.  I'm not trying to persuade anyone to my point of view or change anyone's opinions or anything.  So if I ask a question or bring up something from the story I'm doing so out of a desire to hear more from everyone here not try to prove anyone wrong. :)

With that said, I probably could've been clearer with my wording, but what I'm saying is that, technically, Guts' mind is hiding the beast right now, in the sense that the aspects of Guts' mind/emotions that the beast represents have been subconsciously (unconsciously?) put on the back burner and his mind's struggle/trauma isn't as noticeable to outsiders as it was at other points in the story.  I don't mean Guts is constantly thinking," Please don't notice.  Please don't notice.  Please don't notice."  It's not a conscious effort to hide, and it's not hiding from something.  Just hidden.

In other words, the traumatized aspect of Guts' mind is hidden right now because, if you were to meet him, it'd be impossible to tell something was wrong.  Now if Guts was having a full blown struggle with his darker urges/emotions, to the point where when you went to meet him he looked like Private Pyle from Full Metal Jacket right before he killed himself, then his trauma wouldn't be hidden well.

I hope my adding more mud to the water cleared it up.  :ganishka:

Any elf can already perceive human emotions, as demonstrated by Puck's insights into Guts' mind, so there's really no way the King of Elves would not see it.

I agree completely that if the king delves into Guts' mind like Schierke does then he'll see the trauma, and that elves are more than capable of getting the information, especially if something triggers that part of him.  I just think it'd be harder for an elf to sense Guts' trauma now than, say, during his time as the Black Swordsman.

I believe he will address it. The Beast of Darkness is a very prominent and obvious part of Guts' psyche, one that anyone delving into his mind immediately stumbles upon, as Schierke showed us in volume 26. Any elf can already perceive human emotions, as demonstrated by Puck's insights into Guts' mind, so there's really no way the King of Elves would not see it. And you mention Guts trying to hide it, but he doesn't even really realize its existence himself, since it's just a personification of his feelings/trauma, so I don't see how that could possibly work.

That being said, the idea that he could be "healed" or "delivered" from the Beast of Darkness seems unlikely to me. The feelings that the Beast embodies aren't entirely detrimental to Guts, they fuel his fighting spirit even in the darkest hour. What would rather be interesting to see, and what I believe is the most likely outcome, is that Guts might be able to "tame" the Beast of Darkness so that he can "tap" into it when he needs it. Basically it could be put to use in a more efficient, more controlled manner.

I really like that idea, but how would it work?  Or rather what parts would you heal, remove, or fix that would "tame" the beast?  Perhaps the king will be able to, for example, separate and remove the part of Guts that wants everyone he cares about to die while keeping his rage and desire to kill Griffith?

Now where this gets more complicated is that the Beast of Darkness in itself is only half the problem. Where it poses a real danger is when combined with the Berserk's armor, since the armor's fiery Od engulfs Guts and drowns his consciousness with those violent feelings. So keep in mind that a palliative may also be applied to the armor itself, something akin to the talisman Flora carved inside of it. It may be one or the other or a combination of both.

The other day I was thinking how great it would be for Guts if the king could carve a permanent talisman into the armor that not only performs Flora's talisman's function but also keeps Guts conscious like Schierke does for him now. But then I thought of how much damage the armor does to his body and senses and wondered if giving him an "excuse" to use the armor even more was a good idea.  Plus I absolutely love how Miura designed the armor and its double-edged nature.  I'd hate it if the armor was tinkered with too much or if the negative aspects of the armor were negated or removed. 

Guts probably has a different opinion on that subject though.

I don't think any of that makes for a compelling argument.

You must've misread it because all my positions are airtight, my friend.  :troll:

I'm just trying to come at the issue from all angles since the king is essentially a blank slate outside of the powers/abilities we've been told he has and the information we can glean from Puck and Ivarella on the nature of elves.   I do agree though that he'll know about Guts' trauma.  Even if he couldn't sense it directly it doesn't take an Einstein to connect the dots.  Of course, given what Schierke says about what some elves with enormous power are capable of doing and the fact the king has already demonstrated this power with his prediction about Puck, the king probably wouldn't even need to sense it because he knew what was going to unfold before it happened. (Crazy conspiracy theory:  And the king might even be the hidden hand that sent an unknowing Puck off of the island so that his dust could ensure Guts and Casca survived the eclipse, after his other agent rescued them, and then lead them back to the island?! Okay, probably not.)
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Imperator Hanseatic on June 27, 2016, 04:00:03 AM
First, I'd like to just say that I'm just trying to foster a discussion in this thread because I'm so amped up from getting Berserk back.  I'm not trying to persuade anyone to my point of view or change anyone's opinions or anything.  So if I ask a question or bring up something from the story I'm doing so out of a desire to hear more from everyone here not try to prove anyone wrong. :)

I hope my adding more mud to the water cleared it up.  :ganishka:

Indeed I feel like I understand your position much better now and even agree on a fair bit of it.

I also share your feelings about fostering discussion and general hype for more Berserk, and apologize if I seem a tad hostile or overly intense as that is not my intent either. My manner of speaking has been called.. "brutal" at times, though I suspect those who make such claims would flee from our glorious Admin of Terror in a heartbeat.  :ganishka:
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Skeleton on June 27, 2016, 12:55:32 PM
I also share your feelings about fostering discussion and general hype for more Berserk, and apologize if I seem a tad hostile or overly intense as that is not my intent either. My manner of speaking has been called.. "brutal" at times, though I suspect those who make such claims would flee from our glorious Admin of Terror in a heartbeat.  :ganishka:

No need to apologize, my friend. You've been really cool. I never sensed hostility. I just wanted to clarify that those weren't legitimate questions I have, and that I was playing devil's advocate for the sake of the discussion. :)
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Feeblecursedone on June 27, 2016, 02:08:59 PM
Quote
In other words, the traumatized aspect of Guts' mind is hidden right now because, if you were to meet him, it'd be impossible to tell something was wrong

Impossible? A big guy wearing a strange black armour with a face that's riddled with scars and a sword that's bigger than most men? I think you dont need a glimpse into his inner psyche to recognise that there's something wrong with the guy XD

Plus the looks he regulary gives to people is enough to make them soil themselves.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Lithrael on June 27, 2016, 04:02:00 PM
Impossible? A big guy wearing a strange black armour with a face that's riddled with scars and a sword that's bigger than most men? I think you dont need a glimpse into his inner psyche to recognise that there's something wrong with the guy XD

Haaaa  :guts:  OK that made me smile.  But yeah, these days though he's certainly intimidating just because of the figure he cuts, whenever he's being scary AF he's hidden in the armor anyways.  We don't get bystanders witnessing Guts all holy shit like Jill did back in Lost Children anymore.  I mean, we do still get bystanders going holy shit but the context is a lot different recently.  Nowadays it's more like 'oh no a billion eldritch monsters - oh SHIT, the armor guy is outmonstering them!'
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Walter on June 27, 2016, 04:33:21 PM
In other words, the traumatized aspect of Guts' mind is hidden right now because, if you were to meet him, it'd be impossible to tell something was wrong.  Now if Guts was having a full blown struggle with his darker urges/emotions, to the point where when you went to meet him he looked like Private Pyle from Full Metal Jacket right before he killed himself, then his trauma wouldn't be hidden well.

I think you're forgetting about the concept of karmic fire. Flora knew about Guts' internal struggles just from seeing his brand and knowing about his relationship with Casca. The kind of life that follows a branded one isn't a deep secret. There's no question  about the Elf King's ability to perceive such a thing -- particularly for a character who may very well know quite a bit about Guts already, if he turns out to have been the source all along for SK's prophecies about Guts (something we talk about on the podcast).
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: ApostleBob on June 27, 2016, 05:14:33 PM
Two small mentions.

I think it's an interesting art choice for Ged to make him look old without all the detail Miura usually puts into older characters like the Pontiff, the King, or Flora. He's almost cartoony.

Second, we can finally dispel with the conspiracy theory that Puck is the Elf King.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Aazealh on June 27, 2016, 08:36:14 PM
With that said, I probably could've been clearer with my wording, but what I'm saying is that, technically, Guts' mind is hiding the beast right now, in the sense that the aspects of Guts' mind/emotions that the beast represents have been subconsciously (unconsciously?) put on the back burner

It could be said that Guts is repressing those feelings. Not hiding them. Those words have very different meanings.

his mind's struggle/trauma isn't as noticeable to outsiders as it was at other points in the story. In other words, the traumatized aspect of Guts' mind is hidden right now because, if you were to meet him, it'd be impossible to tell something was wrong.  Now if Guts was having a full blown struggle with his darker urges/emotions, to the point where when you went to meet him he looked like Private Pyle from Full Metal Jacket right before he killed himself, then his trauma wouldn't be hidden well.

Really? Like when? He's had episodes before, like that time he assaulted Casca. But that's about it. He was never raving mad like what you're describing here, and I think your insistence on this topic shows you don't really understand it. The Beast of Darkness is only one side of Guts, one aspect of his mind. He's had a "full blown struggle" for a good while, and because he's managed to suppress those feelings somewhat doesn't mean the struggle doesn't continue. Really, I don't think you have anything to go on here, especially since we were talking about the King of the Flower Storm, who is sure to have supernatural mind-reading abilities. It's not like he'd have to guess it by looking at Guts' face. That's kind of a presposterous argument to be honest.

I agree completely that if the king delves into Guts' mind like Schierke does then he'll see the trauma, and that elves are more than capable of getting the information, especially if something triggers that part of him.  I just think it'd be harder for an elf to sense Guts' trauma now than, say, during his time as the Black Swordsman.

I disagree, actually. I think it's just as easy. I doubt the King will need to do anything to perceive what's going on with Guts. Like Walter said, even Flora felt it without even trying.

I really like that idea, but how would it work?  Or rather what parts would you heal, remove, or fix that would "tame" the beast?  Perhaps the king will be able to, for example, separate and remove the part of Guts that wants everyone he cares about to die while keeping his rage and desire to kill Griffith?

I don't think that's how it would work. Guts could simply better channel those dark feelings. Maybe even by simply internalizing the idea that his friends' help is his best way to get his revenge.

The other day I was thinking how great it would be for Guts if the king could carve a permanent talisman into the armor that not only performs Flora's talisman's function but also keeps Guts conscious like Schierke does for him now. But then I thought of how much damage the armor does to his body and senses and wondered if giving him an "excuse" to use the armor even more was a good idea.  Plus I absolutely love how Miura designed the armor and its double-edged nature.  I'd hate it if the armor was tinkered with too much or if the negative aspects of the armor were negated or removed.

It doesn't make much sense for a trick like that to be introduced. Even from the perspective of how the armor works.

I do agree though that he'll know about Guts' trauma.  Even if he couldn't sense it directly it doesn't take an Einstein to connect the dots.  Of course, given what Schierke says about what some elves with enormous power are capable of doing and the fact the king has already demonstrated this power with his prediction about Puck, the king probably wouldn't even need to sense it because he knew what was going to unfold before it happened.

Well we're in agreement then!

(Crazy conspiracy theory:  And the king might even be the hidden hand that sent an unknowing Puck off of the island so that his dust could ensure Guts and Casca survived the eclipse, after his other agent rescued them, and then lead them back to the island?! Okay, probably not.)

Could the King of Elves be able to impact the world through causality? Who knows. Could Puck have been an unknowing agent of his, seeding good and thwarting evil in small but meaningful ways? Why not. This isn't the first time this idea crops up and it doesn't seem crazy at all to me.

Second, we can finally dispel with the conspiracy theory that Puck is the Elf King.

Did anyone ever really believe that?
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Jemuller on June 28, 2016, 06:19:42 PM

Now even putting that aside, keep in mind that Puck and Judo had met before the Band of the Falcon was even a thing. So Puck has been away for several years at the very least, and for all we know he's been roaming the world for 30 years.


Hello, guys! (First Post)

Considering the fact that Puck could be/was "wandering" around the "outside world" for so many years (decades?).

Plus the fact, that all those 'young' witches, showed last episode, seemed to remember him. Would be possible to assure that the witches are, possibly, older than what they look like to be?

Just an example to illustrate what I meant to say: In the "The Lord of the Rings"'s mythology, an hobbit is considered adult when he/she is 33 years old.

In others words, they have a different 'pattern' of...life (?), as the dwarves, that are considered adults in the age of 50.

So, in 'Witches' terms, I think it would be reasonable IF them, differently of men, could achieve very long lives. Even considering their 'purpose' to exist on this world.

 :daiba:
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: RaffoBaffo on June 28, 2016, 06:32:45 PM
Remember that time flow differently, on the Island.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Aazealh on June 28, 2016, 06:33:14 PM
Hello, guys! (First Post)

Considering the fact that Puck could be/was "wandering" around the "outside world" for so many years (decades?).
Plus the fact, that all those 'young' witches, showed last episode, seemed to remember him. Would be possible to assure that the witches are, possibly, older than what they look like to be?

Hello and welcome. No, witches are just normal humans who learn or have learned magic. It's something that technically anyone can do. What's happening here is that time flows differently on the island, as it was revealed in episode 342. So it's probable that although Puck wandered the outside world for who knows how many years, only a few years went by on the island. Those kids would have grown a bit, but not much.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Jemuller on June 28, 2016, 06:43:01 PM
Hello and welcome. No, witches are just normal humans who learn or have learned magic.

It's right. I forgot that for a moment, thanks Aaz!

IF they were considered a "race", it would not be possible to Farnese becomes a witch (in the future)! My bad! :azan:
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Aazealh on June 28, 2016, 06:44:30 PM
It's right. I forgot that for a moment, thanks Aaz!
IF they were considered a "race", it would not be possible to Farnese becomes a witch (in the future)!

Exactly! And I'd say Farnese is already a witch, although still very much a novice obviously. But she has cast a big spell already. :guts:
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Griffith on June 28, 2016, 09:30:53 PM
The biggest revelation to me, that we didn't already presume, was the confirmation that Griffith wasn't merely targeting Flora but all such magical sites. It definitely suggests the gang won't be leaving by choice and has me excited for what's likely to be a cataclysmic penultimate battle when Griff sails/flies his unholy army to Skellig looking to finish the job. I also think it's interesting that, considering the players and the stakes, it could really be a most worthy finale since I think we've always presumed, at least I have, that Guts and co. would eventually come to him. Ultimately, I still think that happens for a few reasons, namely that we still need to raise the stakes and put our heroes in a taller burning tree, strange as that sounds where Guts is concerned. Having Griffith, and possibly the rest of the God Hand, come lay waste to the last outpost of traditional magic, kill the King of Elves, and generally do even more to wrong our heroes and put them in a deeper hole makes a ton of dramatic sense to both setup a final showdown and make victory seem that much more unlikely until Guts unites the last remnants of humanity together to for one last raid mission (we have to see Guts in the Apostle bowels of Falconia =). I don't think the end game has potentially ever looked so tangible.

I just hope Casca gets cured in time. :???:
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Feeblecursedone on June 28, 2016, 09:50:34 PM
I'm not sure Griffith is going to send his army to attack Skellig. To do that would mean his apostles would have to battle Guts & co as well as all other wizards on their ground, meaning they would be at heavy disadvantage. I imagine the island itself would try to fight, including nature spirits, elements as well as other astral creatures. Guts alone can plow through average apostles and the rest of them are capable of fighting them off as well. That's not including all the wizards, possible astral creatures on Skellig that are allied to Elf King, and Guru Mage is there as well.

While nobody doubts Griffith's and his close general's powers, Griffith is too smart and tactical for such a move. He's going to wait for them to come to him, or at least I think so.

That said, he may send some scouting forces to test the waters, but im not so sure about full blown assault.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Uriel on June 28, 2016, 11:53:58 PM
Oh, here is the comment from this week's YA:

(https://ton.twitter.com/i/ton/data/dm/747955186644090884/747955186690187264/YlHfuqJp.jpg:medium)

"Everyone, please also show your support to the anime."

Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Skeleton on June 29, 2016, 01:25:27 AM
To do that would mean his apostles would have to battle Guts & co as well as all other wizards on their ground, meaning they would be at heavy disadvantage.

We don't know if they would be at a disadvantage.  Zodd and his apostles were unable to attack Ganishka in Vrittanis.  They appeared to be at a disadvantage.  But it was planned for Zodd to team up with Guts the entire time.  That disadvantage ended up being false.

I imagine the island itself would try to fight, including nature spirits, elements as well as other astral creatures.

Astral creatures wouldn't be a problem for apostles.  Apostles literally kill them for fun.

Elemental spirits would be a problem.  But it depends on the situation.  Elemental spirits couldn't be summoned to fight the Sea God.  I don't imagine they could be summoned if Femto is there.  Anything short of the Four Kings would be useless.  And we haven't seen their power used offensively.

That said, he may send some scouting forces to test the waters, but im not so sure about full blown assault.

Femto doesn't test waters.  Remember that there are bigger forces at play here.  Femto's actions further the IoE's agenda.  And what the IoE wants inevitably happens.  At least so far.  If Femto assaults the island his goal will be accomplished.

Oh, here is the comment from this week's YA:

"Everyone, please also show your support to the anime."

I meant to ask about the comment yesterday but forgot.  Thank you, Uriel.  I appreciate you taking the time to post it.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Feeblecursedone on June 29, 2016, 09:22:17 AM
Quote
We don't know if they would be at a disadvantage.  Zodd and his apostles were unable to attack Ganishka in Vrittanis.  They appeared to be at a disadvantage.  But it was planned for Zodd to team up with Guts the entire time.  That disadvantage ended up being false.

That's hardly the same as attacking what's essentially a magical haven and fortress for wizards and astreal creatures. Magical users may not be outside of casuality's influence but the astral beings and other non-human elements should be. And this time, Guts' wont be on Zodd's side, definitely not when it comes to choosing btw Skellig or Apostles. Fighting in a foreign territory where the ground and elements are completely under your enemy's control is not to be dismissed.

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Astral creatures wouldn't be a problem for apostles.  Apostles literally kill them for fun.

We cannot know that for sure. We know trolls and ogres are not much of a challenge, but who knows what all sorts of manner of creatures live on Skellig. There's a lot more of astral creatures than just trolls and ogres. They might have a dragon for all we know, or a hydra.

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Elemental spirits would be a problem.  But it depends on the situation.  Elemental spirits couldn't be summoned to fight the Sea God.  I don't imagine they could be summoned if Femto is there.  Anything short of the Four Kings would be useless.  And we haven't seen their power used offensively.

We've already seen elements in action, and we have seen a Kundalini, who's not an element, but can control element of water. Given Skellig is an island with a lot of wild floura and fauna, i wouldnt be surprised if there are some Kundalini on the Island itself.

I wouldn't dismiss Skellig's forces. Especially considering average apostles are little more than cannon fodder at this point of story. That's not even taking Guru and Elf king himself into account. I seriously doubt anyone short of Griffith, Zodd, Irvine, Grunbeld or Locus would stand a chance against them.

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Femto doesn't test waters.  Remember that there are bigger forces at play here.  Femto's actions further the IoE's agenda.  And what the IoE wants inevitably happens.  At least so far.  If Femto assaults the island his goal will be accomplished.

Femto is still a military commander, regardless of his demonic state, as he portrayed in the battle against Ganishka's spawn. Besides, Skellig might be out of IOE's reach completely for all we know. As for whether his goal is going to be accomplished, we don't know that.

Attacking isoldated spiritual trees and witches is one thing, and attacking a domain of Elf King is completely another. Not saying its impossible, but that it might not be as easy and predestined as you might think.

I also think the final battle is going to be around Falconia, so if Griffith arrives on Skellig it may be too premature?

With that said, I wouldn't mind some action. Im still waiting for Guts to slay an actual dragon with dragonslayer, now that dragons are a thing ( maybe the one on rooftoops? :P ) Imagine if guts could create new weapons from dragon's hide. A dragonslayer greatbow! Like one from Dark souls o.o now that he doesnt have an access to his crossbow anymore.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Skeleton on June 29, 2016, 10:43:28 AM
That's hardly the same as attacking what's essentially a magical haven and fortress for wizards and astreal creatures.

That's not what I said.  I said an obvious disadvantage might not reflect the reality of the situation.  The encounter with Ganishka is an example of that.

Magical users may not be outside of casuality's influence but the astral beings and other non-human elements should be.

Nothing is outside of causality's influence.  Causality is just cause and effect.  And the IoE has a habit of accounting for things it can't directly control.  Take SK's attack on Femto as an example.

And this time, Guts' wont be on Zodd's side, definitely not when it comes to choosing btw Skellig or Apostles.

I didn't say he would.

We cannot know that for sure.

But a speculation's foundation should be built on information we already know.  The information we have says they aren't much of a problem.  Especially for an army of apostles.

Besides, Skellig might be out of IOE's reach completely for all we know.

We know it's not.

As for whether his goal is going to be accomplished, we don't know that.

It has worked flawlessly so far.

Attacking isoldated spiritual trees and witches is one thing, and attacking a domain of Elf King is completely another.  Not saying its impossible, but that it might not be as easy and predestined as you might think.

I never said it would be easy.  But its difficulty would depend on what effect Femto's presence has.

If he does attack the island it will be because the IoE planned it.  We know that already.

I also think the final battle is going to be around Falconia, so if Griffith arrives on Skellig it may be too premature?

I don't think the island will be attacked by Femto.  But an attack doesn't mean it has to be the final showdown.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Feeblecursedone on June 29, 2016, 11:50:06 AM
Quote
That's not what I said.  I said an obvious disadvantage might not reflect the reality of the situation.  The encounter with Ganishka is an example of that.

Perhaps. But there's also a chance that it might, afterall we have no idea how powerful Elf King really is and if he can act/influence lives under his domain.

Quote
Nothing is outside of causality's influence.  Causality is just cause and effect.  And the IoE has a habit of accounting for things it can't directly control.  Take SK's attack on Femto as an example.

Sk is still however under influence of IOE, you're right. However we dont know wether that's the case for Elf King.


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But a speculation's foundation should be built on information we already know.  The information we have says they aren't much of a problem.  Especially for an army of apostles.

An Ogre was actually putting up a good fight against Borkoff, before it got killed. Which means it would stand a realistically good chance against a lesser apostle. Most apostles aren't really that big of a deal, especially if they encountered something stronger than Ogres which im sure will happen on Skellig. At this point, they're merely cannon fodder. The true danger comes from Apostle commanders, which we all know who they are, and of course, Griffith himself. You say they aren't big of a deal, but so as I said, apostles arent either. Elements and astral creatures should be evenly matched against common apostles, especially considering the native terrain favours them.

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We know it's not.

That depends on Elf King I think.

Quote
I never said it would be easy.  But its difficulty would depend on what effect Femto's presence has.

If he does attack the island it will be because the IoE planned it.  We know that already.

Well yes, Femto's presence would potentially spell doom. Yes, it will be because IOE planned it, but IOE might not have a way to influence or direct Elf's king response to it. It may be a clash with unknown variables. Also, Elf King might be able to forsee the attack and plan accordingly.

Quote
I don't think the island will be attacked by Femto.  But an attack doesn't mean it has to be the final showdown.

It doesn't true, but I think the island is supposed to be haven for our character's growth and development. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind for such a thing to happen if we get an epic scale battle out of it, but I dont think its going to happen.


Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Skeleton on June 29, 2016, 01:16:33 PM
Sk is still however under influence of IOE, you're right. However we dont know wether that's the case for Elf King.

The Elf King isn't directly influenced by the IoE.

An Ogre was actually putting up a good fight against Borkoff, before it got killed. Which means it would stand a realistically good chance against a lesser apostle. Most apostles aren't really that big of a deal, especially if they encountered something stronger than Ogres which im sure will happen on Skellig. At this point, they're merely cannon fodder. The true danger comes from Apostle commanders, which we all know who they are, and of course, Griffith himself. You say they aren't big of a deal, but so as I said, apostles arent either. Elements and astral creatures should be evenly matched against common apostles, especially considering the native terrain favours them.

Apostles are stronger than you think.  Guts can cut them down easily now.  But that doesn't make them weak.  And they aren't cannon fodder.  They're literally the strength behind Griffith's army.  "The beak and talons of the Falcon."

That depends on Elf King I think.

No.  It doesn't.  There are humans on the island.  The IoE is an inseparable part of humanity.

Well yes, Femto's presence would potentially spell doom. Yes, it will be because IOE planned it, but IOE might not have a way to influence or direct Elf's king response to it. It may be a clash with unknown variables. Also, Elf King might be able to forsee the attack and plan accordingly.

This is what I was talking about:

Elemental spirits would be a problem.  But it depends on the situation.  Elemental spirits couldn't be summoned to fight the Sea God.  I don't imagine they could be summoned if Femto is there.  Anything short of the Four Kings would be useless.  And we haven't seen their power used offensively.

My comment on the IoE was a separate thought.

It doesn't true, but I think the island is supposed to be haven for our character's growth and development.

Yes.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Imperator Hanseatic on June 29, 2016, 01:35:05 PM
I seriously doubt anyone short of Griffith, Zodd, Irvine, Grunbeld or Locus would stand a chance against them.

I think we're forgetting someone in this list.....

 :rakshas:

Interesting discussion either way, though I suspect that there is way too much that's left to speculation at this point in order to guess with any certainty at what may happen should the story take such a turn. I'm not saying don't do it though! Always good to explore such potential.  :guts:
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Feeblecursedone on June 29, 2016, 02:56:13 PM
Quote
The Elf King isn't directly influenced by the IoE.

Exactly. He isn't. Which means he's outside of the sphere of control, which means he might do something that will not be in IOE's plan. If a struggler like Guts or SK can often change their fate even in the most minimal manner ( Yes I know it doesnt disturb the flow of the river and what not ), I imagine Elf KIng might be able to completely reverse it, as its not subject to control.

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Apostles are stronger than you think.  Guts can cut them down easily now.  But that doesn't make them weak.  And they aren't cannon fodder.  They're literally the strength behind Griffith's army.  "The beak and talons of the Falcon."

Well I should clarify. I meant fodder for the likes of Guts, Guru, Elf King, etc. Apostles are strong in comparison to human army, but this time around they're fighting creatures that are just as big, strong and capable of wrecking havoc with magic. My guess is the numbers will probably prevail here, when it comes to these lesser fights. In any case, we know that it will depend on few key players.

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No.  It doesn't.  There are humans on the island.  The IoE is an inseparable part of humanity.

I guess we shall see.

Quote
I think we're forgetting someone in this list.....

True, Rakshas is there as well.

Off-topic, but I seriously wanna see Guts slay a Dragon with the Dragon Slayer. And then have som dragon weaponary forged from its hide. Imagine if he hefted a greatshield, like Artorias the Abysswalker ( who was inspired by Guts )  :guts: It would be like reverse-reference, Miura getting inspired by Miyazaki and vice versa ( which already happened )
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Walter on June 29, 2016, 04:29:04 PM
Griffith is too smart and tactical for such a move. He's going to wait for them to come to him, or at least I think so.

If what Ged says about Griffith extinguishing Spirit Trees is true, and it's something that's still important to him even after the merging, then he will probably attack Elfhelm at some point in the future. If they're not important to him anymore, then we have a completely different set of expectations for the future, and the conversation we're building now around this stuff won't come into play for years, with totally different variables, on a completely different world stage.

Astral creatures wouldn't be a problem for apostles.  Apostles literally kill them for fun.

We aren't even close to grasping the full extent of the astral creature lineup. And there's a range of possibilities. A troll? Tasty snack. But something like the kundalini? Different story. What about something even more powerful, though? I don't think it's crazy to think Miura has been saving his biggest cards for last.

Magical users may not be outside of casuality's influence but the astral beings and other non-human elements should be

And yet, they've heretofore been relegated to an island, far, far away thanks to the actions of humans. The Idea of Evil's means of control stems from humanity, and humanity has done a pretty stellar job of distancing itself from those elements and constraining their role on the world stage. My point being, they're probably exactly where they're supposed to be for whatever it is the God Hand have planned.

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If a struggler like Guts or SK can often change their fate even in the most minimal manner ( Yes I know it doesnt disturb the flow of the river and what not ),

The word "fate" shouldn't be used like this when it comes to Berserk. And I wouldn't even say they can do such things "often." Only during very specific moments, of which we've seen maybe 5-6 in total?

Quote
I imagine Elf KIng might be able to completely reverse it, as its not subject to control.

What does that even mean..?


I've read the rest of the back and forth, but I'd like to step out of the quote structure for the rest. This discussion sees to be circling around the potential impact of an apostle attack on Elfhelm. Feeble says witches+astral creatures would be formidable, Skeleton says Apostles are no slouches. You're both right, I think. It would be a bloodbath on both fronts. But when you come right down to it, if Griffith or one of the God Hand do happen to launch an attack TODAY, guess where my money would be? Probably the demonic forces who have been planning things behind the scenes for a millennium and currently have the entire world's assets in their grasp. Not the hippie village and their native pals.

But I think such discussion is premature for a variety of reasons. First, we don't know enough about Elfhelm and its inhabitants to weigh in on what they could bring to the table in a battle. Schierke's most powerful abilities are contingent on nearby astral entities. As the final stronghold of magic users who are one with nature, Skellig and Elfhelm could be an insane wellspring of power in that regard. Second, there's the question of if Griffith and Co. even have any interest in waging a long, distant campaign on foreign soil. And third, there are revelations on the horizon, and they aren't big fight related. If it goes like we think it will (and admittedly Miura is stellar at subverting this...), a massive showdown of the proportions being discussed is still volumes away. And like I said earlier, such a battle by that point will include a number of other variables that we can't hope to account for at this moment.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: ryOtoha on June 29, 2016, 07:11:12 PM
Really like the way things mirrors themselves in the serie. I'm already waiting for another attack just in front of the treehouse and maybe a duel.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: idi0tf0wl on June 30, 2016, 06:01:28 PM
Hello all, I've posted a complete translation of this episode over at /r/Berserk:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Berserk/comments/4qcvk8/episode_344_translation/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/Berserk/comments/4qcvk8/episode_344_translation/)

Please feel free to look it over and contact me with any questions or comments you may have.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Walter on June 30, 2016, 06:05:59 PM
Please feel free to look it over and contact me with any questions or comments you may have.

Still not sure about that "World Seals" thing.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: idi0tf0wl on June 30, 2016, 06:37:06 PM
The bubble in question is

「世界各地の
封印
”霊樹の森”を
襲ってな」

"World Seals" comes from "世界各地の封印", "世界" meaning "the world", "各地" meaning "all over/everywhere" ("世界各地" in and of its own meaning "all the world over", and "封印", which could mean a seal or a stamp but more connotes something which seals something (away/behind/&c.). Because of the positions of the particles の and を, we know that the seals are called "霊樹の森", and that they are under attack.

Whether or not this is an optimal translation, I couldn't say, but that is the source and logic behind my decision.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Walter on June 30, 2016, 06:45:23 PM
Sure, and thanks for explaining it, I just meant that I'm unsure about that concept. If he's just referring to the border between worlds being shattered, then it's something we already knew and it's merely being given a formal title. But if it's something new -- well, that's something we should consider.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: idi0tf0wl on June 30, 2016, 06:55:08 PM
Ah, I see. I wish I knew, but we will probably hear more about it in the next episode, seeing as Gaedfling more or less says as much in another few bubbles.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: IncantatioN on July 01, 2016, 12:41:39 AM
Last week's YA release carries both episodes 343 and 344. Just FYI for members who are on the bend whether or not to pick up the YA issue. There also appears to be a 4 page interview plus the continuation of the short comic interview that was translated by puella early June (please correct me if I'm wrong guys). You're in for a treat. Buy the issue guys and support Berserk!

When I tried to pick it up last week, the store said they only had 1 issue and it was reserved. I found this a little strange/surprising and placed an order for it. The issues I ordered came in today. All these years they've carried at least 3/5 copies per issue, most of which are reserved for those subscribing to the magazine.

Reading the new episode and catching up with the topic and summary + translations (Thanks Aaz and puella!).
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: idi0tf0wl on July 01, 2016, 12:57:42 AM
This issue also contains a supplemental issue with four consecutive episodes from right after Lost Children, and a fun little "leather tray" for keeping your change or keys or whatever.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Squiddot on July 01, 2016, 01:59:00 AM
If we're discussing the YA issue, i'll also mention to anyone who's been checking up on Hakusensha-e.net that the issue is finally available for online purchase. Aaz published a "how-to" for us non-japanese speakers.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Rupert Sinclair on July 01, 2016, 03:08:30 AM
If we're discussing the YA issue, i'll also mention to anyone who's been checking up on Hakusensha-e.net that the issue is finally available for online purchase. Aaz published a "how-to" for us non-japanese speakers.

And wow, it looks fucking amazing.  Definitely worth it.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: RaffoBaffo on July 01, 2016, 06:39:18 AM
If we're discussing the YA issue, i'll also mention to anyone who's been checking up on Hakusensha-e.net that the issue is finally available for online purchase. Aaz published a "how-to" for us non-japanese speakers.
It's really, really good.
Even the republished last Episode [343] in this issue of YA is more polished that the same Episode that was in the former issue.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Kaladin on July 01, 2016, 06:48:43 AM
yeah YA No.13  is now my first digital YA purchase and i gotta say the quality is amazing, there is a hilarious looking comic at the end of the berserk section, i hope it gets translated. which one of those guys is miura? the one with the mustache? the shy looking one?
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: idi0tf0wl on July 01, 2016, 07:12:33 AM
Quote
and woah its not just any ol' interviewer but the president himself?

He's identified in the magazine as Hakusensha's representative director (白泉社 代表取締役), but yeah.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: IncantatioN on July 01, 2016, 10:31:12 AM
This issue also contains a supplemental issue with four consecutive episodes from right after Lost Children, and a fun little "leather tray" for keeping your change or keys or whatever.

Mine didn't come with a leather tray :puck:
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Henry Spencer on July 01, 2016, 06:13:22 PM
I do wonder if Griffith has maybe already dispatched a team to try to destroy Skellig and kill its inhabitants. At least that way we can see the powers of the inhabitants of the island in their full view and Guts defending them (and thus gaining their trust) as well as push for a return of Skull Knight to the island to help with the defense (this could mirror the failed defense of Flora's home; here Guts and his newfound allies are actually successful in the defense). Might be an excuse for Guts and co. (Schierke and Isidro especially) to finally meet the likes of Sonia and Mule again (let's say Sonia and Mule encourage Irvine to sneak in, or shall we say, spy on the events from a distance and follow the members of the Band of the Hawk who do go, if Sonia gets shut out of whatever plans Griffith tells his generals). Wonder how they'd react to seeing them trying to destroy a peaceful place like that. Would it be enough to shake their foundations of who Griffith is or would it take more for that to happen? Would they switch sides? I guess it all depends on how long Guts and co. stick around and the forthcoming events but I could see some good excuses for conflicts to take place like that in the near future. Just a theory.

I wonder who Griffith would send for the siege and who would stay behind?
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Rhombaad on July 01, 2016, 07:42:39 PM
For some reason, I feel like a member of the God Hand is going to show up on the island at some point. I'm hoping it's Conrad, since we haven't seen as much of him as the others. I just can't see a bunch of apostles, Sonia and Mule arriving by boat or on the backs of flying apostles. Who knows what we're in for, though?

This was a very exciting episode for me. Since they set off for Elfhelm, I've been thinking about the new characters we'd meet. I'm looking forward to getting to know Kukka, Tune, Yoni, Molda and Ged better, and seeing even more characters join the cast.

In the podcast, it was supposed that Flora spoke to Ged from the astral world. If that's the case, I wonder if Schierke will be reunited with Flora through some form of astral communication in the next few episodes.

I think all of us are betting on seeing the Skull Knight at some point, too, but I have a feeling we may end up meeting him and the King of the Flower Storm at the same time. I have this image in my head of the king's reveal, with SK standing behind him and off to the side, as if they had been conversing before the group entered. :void:
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Griffith on July 02, 2016, 03:34:30 AM
Frankly, the prospects of this are being undersold. Forget Apostles vs. Astral Creatures or some traditional battle and think the The God Hand attacking the last stronghold of magic opposed to their control. Good vs. Evil.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Squiddot on July 02, 2016, 07:39:21 AM
I'm not sure if we've only seen one certain "district" of the village that's not indicative of the rest of the population but i find it strange the majority of the inhabitants are children. Are these orphans taken from the mainlands or is there a sizeable adult population deeper in the village, or even out on business against Griffith? Hopefully we get some sort of explanation down the track.

On that note, discussion about Elfhelm being a final bastion of defence against Griffith or even an attacking force is starting to get heated. But (unless i'm forgetting a discussion somewhere on the journey) Elfhelm has been sold as a safe place to send, and later on, cure Casca. And besides schierke explaining there's a strong magician presence no other promises were made. From what we've seen the population seems very isolationist with little respect or regard for "barbarian" mainlanders. And the entire island is cloaked in time dilation that allows the years of the outside world to rush by while the inhabitants remain stationary. I really don't think the party will be leaving with an army. Morda definitely, Casca, more gear, information and a greater purpose i'm sure of as well. But the island at the moment seems at best ill-equip and unprepared (its an island of students that may be fully fledged in a few years, which could be decades on the mainland) and at worse completely uninterested in dealing with outside affairs. Maybe an attack could rouse the population into action. We can't really guess considering our only other example Flora, was so sure this was her fate she burned alive.

On the topic of an attack (sorry, its a double tangeant  :slan:). The continued destruction of spirit trees explains what Zodd and Grunbeld have been doing while the other commanders attend to needs in Falconia. Their jobs clearly didn't end with Flora or Ganishka and i presume they went back to leading their armies as soon as Falconia was established. Which makes the presence of apostles in the capitol kind of interesting. Griffith deliberately left a force to entertain themselves in the gladiator arena when he could have sent them out to sack the spirit trees. Obviously any castle of old would need a standing defence force, But Falconia is uncontested in the human world, and the natural geography wards off astral creatures. Not sure what Griffith needs an apostle brigade on hand for, but maybe he anticipates that he'll need to defend Falconia quite intensely.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Aazealh on July 03, 2016, 01:01:19 PM
The biggest revelation to me, that we didn't already presume, was the confirmation that Griffith wasn't merely targeting Flora but all such magical sites. It definitely suggests the gang won't be leaving by choice and has me excited for what's likely to be a cataclysmic penultimate battle when Griff sails/flies his unholy army to Skellig looking to finish the job.

There's a pretty big flaw in your assumption here: the seals were what kept the Astral World away from the Corporeal World. They have already been broken, and the "Great Blast" has already occurred. Therefore that can't be a motivation for Griffith to want to "finish the job". I also still don't think to this day that it makes sense for apostles to fly uninterrupted for months on end to find a place they have no direction to. Of course, there's the fact time flows differently on the island than it does in the outside world. That means apostles could have departed much later and still arrive relatively quickly compared to how long Guts & friends have been there. But by the same token the time flow aspect is a clear hint that Guts & company can't stay on the island for long, and means that they will have to leave by themselves anyway even if nothing happens. In fact, the choice of whether or not to stay there, isolated from the rest of the world (as opposed to rushing headlong in a desperate quest to save it), could be a very interesting dilemma for all our characters and especially Guts & Casca.

I also think it's interesting that, considering the players and the stakes, it could really be a most worthy finale since I think we've always presumed, at least I have, that Guts and co. would eventually come to him.

I really can't believe the finale of the story won't be in Falconia, or that they won't at least come to Falconia before that.

I'm not sure Griffith is going to send his army to attack Skellig. To do that would mean his apostles would have to battle Guts & co as well as all other wizards on their ground, meaning they would be at heavy disadvantage. I imagine the island itself would try to fight, including nature spirits, elements as well as other astral creatures. Guts alone can plow through average apostles and the rest of them are capable of fighting them off as well. That's not including all the wizards, possible astral creatures on Skellig that are allied to Elf King, and Guru Mage is there as well.

There is that as well. In volume 26, Flora was dying and in no state to fight and Guts was grievously wounded. The situation isn't quite the same here. The relevant question is: would sending 50 apostles (if we assume that would be enough to overwhelm the defenders) to Skellig make sense, even if it were possible? Right now I don't think so. I believe Griffith has other priorities. But that doesn't mean there won't be any fighting taking place in the next three volumes, just that there are other possibilities than a simple rerun of what happened at Flora's. There could be an unrelated threat or struggle, or, as I have commented before, an attack instigated by another member of the God Hand.

now that he doesnt have an access to his crossbow anymore.

Guts still has his crossbow. Also, "guru" is a title, like "master", not a name. The guy is called Gedflynn or something similar.

But a speculation's foundation should be built on information we already know.  The information we have says they aren't much of a problem.  Especially for an army of apostles.

Skeleton, I read your exchange with Feeblecursedone and I thought I would just caution you about speaking with high confidence to support suppositions that are not very solid themselves. For example about the reach of the Idea of Evil's influence or the motivations and powers of various actors we don't know much about yet.

And yet, they've heretofore been relegated to an island, far, far away thanks to the actions of humans. The Idea of Evil's means of control stems from humanity, and humanity has done a pretty stellar job of distancing itself from those elements and constraining their role on the world stage. My point being, they're probably exactly where they're supposed to be for whatever it is the God Hand have planned.

The opposite argument could be made: that isolating themselves from humanity as a whole and the world in general by taking residence on an island that is outside the normal flow of time and ruled by the King of Elves is probably the surest way of escaping the Idea of Evil's reach. That doesn't make a difference in regard to their relevance to the current world situation, but at some point we have to start assuming the Idea of Evil's "master plan" has a limit, otherwise our heroes cannot triumph.

Still not sure about that "World Seals" thing.

The line basically is: "We call it The Great Gust of the Astral World... It's what the one called "the Falcon of Light" did. The seals which exist in several parts of the world, as forests of spiritual trees, have been attacked."

But of course, because of the way Japanese works, a lot of variations are also possible (singular & plural form, etc.). In any case, what's implied is that those forests act(ed) as seals keeping the two worlds apart.

I do wonder if Griffith has maybe already dispatched a team to try to destroy Skellig and kill its inhabitants. At least that way we can see the powers of the inhabitants of the island in their full view and Guts defending them (and thus gaining their trust) as well as push for a return of Skull Knight to the island to help with the defense (this could mirror the failed defense of Flora's home; here Guts and his newfound allies are actually successful in the defense).  Might be an excuse for Guts and co. (Schierke and Isidro especially) to finally meet the likes of Sonia and Mule again [...] I wonder who Griffith would send for the siege and who would stay behind?

I'll start with the end of your post to say that I couldn't help but notice that Zodd was nowhere to be seen during the time we spent in Falconia with Rickert. That being said, aside from the various elements I exposed at the beginning of my post, I'm not sure Elfhelm would be the right setting for Zodd's death, since that's how you see this go. To do him justice and have it fit with the rest, it'd have to be particularly dramatic, like Guts fighting him to the death to protect the King of the Flower Storm while Casca was being healed.

I also don't think an all-out battle for survival needs to occur right now. Guts and the others are already welcomed guests and don't need to prove themselves. Same for seeing the powers of the island's inhabitants: the little battle we were shown already served that purpose, and it might be better for the story to not show too much too early. Lastly, I also really don't see Mule and Sonia being there and meeting Schierke and Isidro again. The time just isn't right in my opinion.

For some reason, I feel like a member of the God Hand is going to show up on the island at some point. I'm hoping it's Conrad, since we haven't seen as much of him as the others. I just can't see a bunch of apostles, Sonia and Mule arriving by boat or on the backs of flying apostles. Who knows what we're in for, though?

I've talked about it before, so maybe you're thinking of that? Anyway I think it would be more interesting than a repeat of what happened at Flora's place. A supernatural attack might also befit the place itself more than monsters ready for slaughter, what with it being the Elf capital, plus being populated by magic users.

In the podcast, it was supposed that Flora spoke to Ged from the astral world. If that's the case, I wonder if Schierke will be reunited with Flora through some form of astral communication in the next few episodes.

That's not a supposition, Ged says so in the episode. It's basically what Flora had told Schierke in volume 27 "I'll see you in your dreams." Maybe we'll finally get to see that. :ubik:

I think all of us are betting on seeing the Skull Knight at some point, too, but I have a feeling we may end up meeting him and the King of the Flower Storm at the same time. I have this image in my head of the king's reveal, with SK standing behind him and off to the side, as if they had been conversing before the group entered. :void:

Haha, who knows.

The continued destruction of spirit trees explains what Zodd and Grunbeld have been doing while the other commanders attend to needs in Falconia. Their jobs clearly didn't end with Flora or Ganishka and i presume they went back to leading their armies as soon as Falconia was established.

If you read the line, it says the fusion of the worlds happened because the seals had been attacked. Why would the attacks go on afterwards?
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Feeblecursedone on July 03, 2016, 02:51:46 PM
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Guts still has his crossbow. Also, "guru" is a title, like "master", not a name. The guy is called Gedflynn or something similar.

Yeah but he doesn't use it anymore since he acquired the berserker armour. Still, I would like to see some new weapons in his arsenal, or some new modifications to his armour. Sure, Im aware what guru means.

Btw, speaking of the things to come, do you guys think we may meet dwarves? Probably not on Skellig, but later on.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Rupert Sinclair on July 03, 2016, 04:31:48 PM
In any case, what's implied is that those forests act(ed) as seals keeping the two worlds apart.

This is very, very interesting.  It adds a whole new layer to what we understood of the situation.  Man, I can't wait for what else we might learn in the next several episodes.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Aazealh on July 03, 2016, 05:54:59 PM
Yeah but he doesn't use it anymore since he acquired the berserker armour. Still, I would like to see some new weapons in his arsenal, or some new modifications to his armour. Sure, Im aware what guru means.

You're wrong, Guts has used his crossbow since volume 26. When they fought their way out of Vritannis, for example.

Btw, speaking of the things to come, do you guys think we may meet dwarves? Probably not on Skellig, but later on.

It's quite possibly that dwarves live in Elfhelm, yes.

This is very, very interesting.  It adds a whole new layer to what we understood of the situation.  Man, I can't wait for what else we might learn in the next several episodes.

Yeah, the next episode will certainly be a very very important one in the series. For example the idea that maybe the two worlds were kept apart purposedly (literally sealed), or that it is the natural order of things for them to be, would be very interesting. There really is a lot we still don't know and they may be remedied soon.

Another thing that's been in the back of my head since we saw the Wicker Man is how different magic users may have been during Gaiseric's time compared to now. That's a pretty big deal too. Watching the anime's first episode made me think again about the haunted tree and how the sacrificial ritual associated with it might have actually been used by real magic users to harness power (as opposed to crazy cultists). What I'm guessing is that not all witches were focused on nature and elemental magic back then. There might have been two or more factions, and the ones using "blood magic" may have been at the root of what is now the axis of evil: the Idea of Evil, God Hand and apostles. I'm very eager to learn more about this.

Also, since we were talking about apostles earlier, here's a food for thought: I don't think Guts will ever be in an apostle fight again that won't feature one of Griffith's five lieutenants, and that won't end with said lieutenant coming down.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Rupert Sinclair on July 03, 2016, 06:13:48 PM
Also, since we were talking about apostles earlier, here's a food for thought: I don't think Guts will ever be in an apostle fight again that won't feature one of Griffith's five lieutenants, and that won't end with said lieutenant coming down.

Except maybe Volkov, I think that one is owed. :beast:
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: residentgrigo on July 03, 2016, 06:17:56 PM
Am i the only one who was surprised how fast the Wicker Man implications were dropped by the core cast. I expected either Guts or Schierke to be left with lingering and visible doubts.
I also think that Aaz has a point and that Guts´ future can´t see many direct Apostle battles. Some of the New Falcons and their foot soldiers to warm up should be it. Maybe one member of the God Hand towards the very end. A height as a battle against the Sea God makes small skirmishes pointless and straining his body too often will make his deterioration health seem like a cliché.
PS: I totally see the Krysten Ritter resemblance and what if Volkov is the one who got away Rupert.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Aazealh on July 03, 2016, 06:25:33 PM
Except maybe Volkov, I think that one is owed. :beast:

Oh he'll go down for sure, but I don't expect that to be a serious, multi-episode fight. Guts will be mangling apostles right and left and Volkov will grab onto his arm with his mouth, just like old times. Then Guts will turn his head towards him and light the cannon. As Volkov shrieks and tries to understand what happened, he'll see the Dragon Slayer falling down on his miserable face. Oh yeah. :ubik:

Am i the only one who was surprised how fast the Wicker Man implications were dropped by the core cast. I expected either Guts or Schierke to be left with lingering and visible doubts.

Nah I think it makes sense, even just from a storyline perspective, to see it get addressed later. Schierke already knew about it and Guts is typically pragmatic about this kind of stuff, so they had no reason to openly question it. Especially since the dialogue between the other witches showed that Molda had acted improperly.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Salem on July 03, 2016, 06:30:04 PM
Oh he'll go down for sure, but I don't expect that to be a serious, multi-episode fight. Guts will be mangling apostles right and left and Volkov will grab onto his arm with his mouth, just like old times. Then Guts will turn his head towards him and light the cannon. As Volkov shrieks and tries to understand what happened, he'll see the Dragon Slayer falling down on his miserable face. Oh yeah. :ubik:

If that happens even remotely close to what you said, the goosebumps I got from reading your thoughts will be painfully full. 
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: TricksieThiefsie on July 03, 2016, 06:50:28 PM
That probably was brought up lots of times but since I am new here, I am gonna ask it - What do you think would be the best outcome for Casca being sane again? Since Guts was babysitting her for 20 years now, it has to come to an end, but do we actually want this to end badly? I want Guts to get on the revenge path again, as many other people I believe, but does it have to be related to Casca? For me personally I would like to see her just staying on the island (assuming it doesn't get destroyed soon), recovering slowly but surely. I never liked her character, I've always seen her as a hypocritical burden rather than anything else. But if she stays and nothing bad happens, how would Guts go on killing spree once again? Will Elf King be responsible for that?
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Aazealh on July 03, 2016, 07:16:18 PM
What do you think would be the best outcome for Casca being sane again?

Guts and Casca resuming their romance and going together (and along with their friends) to Falconia, to face off with the one who took everything for them, and to save their son.

Since Guts was babysitting her for 20 years now, it has to come to an end, but do we actually want this to end badly?

Yes? I mean, Casca is one of my favorite characters in Berserk, and I think it's high time she comes back to herself. It'll be a huge boost to the group dynamics and will be character development heaven, especially for Guts.

I want Guts to get on the revenge path again, as many other people I believe, but does it have to be related to Casca? For me personally I would like to see her just staying on the island (assuming it doesn't get destroyed soon), recovering slowly but surely.

Casca is not going to stay behind on Elfhelm while Guts just goes to get his revenge alone. Casca has been essential to Guts' survival until now, and there is no reason for that to stop. Without her, he'd have died inside the armor the first time he wore it and every single after that. His love for Casca is the only reason he's still alive. The Beast of Darkness isn't a productive force inside Guts' mind, it's more like a pulsion of death. The scenario you envision where he yields in to his rage and hatred only results in death for him and nothing else. The path to victory will be alongside his friends, and his lover. And it might not be primarily a path of revenge either, even if that will obviously play a part in it.

I never liked her character, I've always seen her as a hypocritical burden rather than anything else.

Your loss. A hypocritical burden? I don't understand.

But if she stays and nothing bad happens, how would Guts go on killing spree once again? Will Elf King be responsible for that?

I don't get the question.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Feeblecursedone on July 03, 2016, 07:32:46 PM
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You're wrong, Guts has used his crossbow since volume 26. When they fought their way out of Vritannis, for example.

Er? I cannot think of the single situation where he used a crossbow after he donned the armour for first time. Then again, I havent read that part in a while, so I may have forgotten.


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Your loss.

Hah!  :iva:

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Except maybe Volkov

So its Volkov not Borkoff? I assume the latter is bad translation? In any case, I think Guts may kill Grunbeld too and not just Volkov, cause you know, the whole Dragon Slayer thingy ( Grunbeld being a crystal dragon )

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he'll see the Dragon Slayer falling down on his miserable face. Oh yeah.

But but, Volkov is cool  :judo: He's like the most featured non-main apostle.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: TricksieThiefsie on July 03, 2016, 07:37:16 PM
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Without her, he'd have died inside the armor the first time he wore it and every single after that. His love for Casca is the only reason he's still alive.
I disagree with that. She is important to him but to say that he owes her not being devoured by the beast of darkness isn't really true, unless there's something i am missing. Schierke is keeping Guts sane, Moonlight Boy aswell, occassionally.

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Your loss. A hypocritical burden? I don't understand.

Well, that is something i would like to elaborate in a different thread but to be honest I am not feeling doing it anytime soon for various reasons. In short she was mad about Guts following his dream and ignoring her, but at the same time she chose Griffith over Guts later on. I understand it's not the same but every choice comes from something and I don't believe her love for Guts was actually really that big.

She is important to Guts, but the way she was set up and was useless for so long, I, as a viewer dislike her. I hope you understand that.

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I don't get the question.

The question was based on "if Casca stays on the island, what other thing will drive Guts mad"


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Guts and Casca resuming their romance and going together (and along with their friends) to Falconia, to face off with the one who took everything for them, and to save their son.

That is kinda cheap in my opinion. The child has no relevance so far, he was just a tool for a greater being to come. We will get something more about him (officially we almost know nothing), that is for sure, but for now he isn't that much relevant to think that he needs to be saved. We need to know if he even needs to be saved.

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Yes? I mean, Casca is one of my favorite characters in Berserk, and I think it's high time she comes back to herself. It'll be a huge boost to the group dynamics and will be character development heaven, especially for Guts.

I am not saying that this isn't true, but Guts' party is already large. I can see someone leaving soon for any reason, we have to wait and see.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Aazealh on July 03, 2016, 07:53:46 PM
Er? I cannot think of the single situation where he used a crossbow after he donned the armour for first time. Then again, I havent read that part in a while, so I may have forgotten.

Episode 265 is one example.

So its Volkov not Borkoff? I assume the latter is bad translation?

I'm the one who came up with the name "Borkoff" in the thread for episode 235, after he was first named by Locus, right here on SK.net. I just made it up because I couldn't think of anything better. Then a while after I found out that it perfectly corresponds to the Russian name Volkov, and I've been telling people ever since. Unfortunately, bad spellings tend to stick much faster and long than correct ones for some reason... But yeah, while we don't have an official confirmation of the spelling, I believe the proper one is Volkov. It's also much cooler.

In any case, I think Guts may kill Grunbeld too and not just Volkov, cause you know, the whole Dragon Slayer thingy ( Grunbeld being a crystal dragon )

Yeah yeah man we get it the Dragon Slayer will be used to kill a dragon. I think you've mentioned it like 5 times since you registered. :ganishka: Don't worry, everyone agrees, it will be cool to see the sword live up to its name. I even hope Guts will drop a line like "I wish Godot could have seen this!" in the process.

I disagree with that. She is important to him but to say that he owes her not being devoured by the beast of darkness isn't really true, unless there's something i am missing. Schierke is keeping Guts sane, Moonlight Boy aswell, occassionally.

Well you are missing something, obviously. I suggest you re-read those parts of the story and pay attention to what is the catalyst for Guts to regain his senses, every single time (hint: it's Casca).

Well, that is something i would like to elaborate in a different thread but to be honest I am not feeling doing it anytime soon for various reasons. In short she was mad about Guts following his dream and ignoring her, but at the same time she chose Griffith over Guts later on. I understand it's not the same but every choice comes from something and I don't believe her love for Guts was actually really that big. She is important to Guts, but the way she was set up and was useless for so long, I, as a viewer dislike her. I hope you understand that.

No, I don't understand that, and I also think you don't understand her character well. When she told Guts to go and that she would stay with Griffith, it was out of sacrifice. Both her and Guts wanted to stay with Griffith, out of loyalty. But Casca knew that Guts' heart was elsewhere, that he wanted to be his own man. She knew how important this was to him. So she told him to leave her and be free, even though what she really, desperately wanted was to leave with him. She was trying to sacrifice herself (living an unfulfilling life) out of love for Guts.

The question was based on "if Casca stays on the island, what other thing will drive Guts mad"

...But... Casca isn't driving Guts mad? I still don't get it.

That is kinda cheap in my opinion. The child has no relevance so far, he was just a tool for a greater being to come. We will get something more about him (officially we almost know nothing), that is for sure, but for now he isn't that much relevant to think that he needs to be saved. We need to know if he even needs to be saved.

I don't get your objection. You asked what people's opinion for the best outcome was. I gave you mine. The boy is their son, I'm pretty sure that's very highly relevant to them, and it's all the reason they'll need to want to save him once they learn about his condition.

I am not saying that this isn't true, but Guts' party is already large. I can see someone leaving soon for any reason, we have to wait and see.

The reason Guts' party exists is because of Casca. The most important member of that party, to Guts, is definitely Casca.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: TricksieThiefsie on July 03, 2016, 08:09:43 PM
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Well you are missing something, obviously. I suggest you re-read those parts of the story and pay attention to what is the catalyst for Guts to regain his senses, every single time (hint: it's Casca).

What I meant is that he would kill her anyway, if not for Schierke. He wants to be sane for Casca, but Casca isn't actually the one to "take him back".

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...But... Casca isn't driving Guts mad? I still don't get it.

Maybe my choice of words was poor... if Casca gets sane and okay, how will Guts get back on his revenge path? We all can say that he doesn't really feel the hatred now, it's not so important now. I would like to see something happening to Casca, not dying in particular, just something that will make Guts mad/sad. Something that was foreshadowed by SK long time ago.

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The reason Guts' party exists is because of Casca. The most important member of that party, to Guts, is definitely Casca.

To Guts. She won't be useful even after recovering since everyone is a lot stronger and she can't fight without getting properly trained. Guts needs a power-up to defeat his enemies, not just Casca and I don't see Berserk as a simple story where power of love defeats the ancient evil. It has to be more complex than that.

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I don't get your objection. You asked what people's opinion for the best outcome was. I gave you mine. The boy is their son, I'm pretty sure that's very highly relevant to them, and it's all the reason they'll need to want to save him once they learn about his condition.

Their child isn't even important now, he doesn't exist for now. We are just assuming things, we can't tell for sure what his role will be.


Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Imperator Hanseatic on July 03, 2016, 08:11:23 PM
That probably was brought up lots of times but since I am new here, I am gonna ask it

There are indeed threads for discussing such things in Character Cove and Speculation Nation and it's all a quick search away! :)

Since Guts was babysitting her for 20 years now

I'm going to assume you meant 2 years instead of 20.

What do you think would be the best outcome for Casca being sane again?

As far as "best outcome" there are many people with differing answers to this, as it's a subjective question about a topic that is mostly speculation. For what it's worth though, my "best outcome" would be Casca rejoining the group as a competent fighter after dealing with her trauma and adjusting to the new world. The group contains two people perfectly suited to whip her back into fighting shape in Serpico and Azan though Roderick could also be serviceable in this regard as he has shown himself to be at least competent. The group will almost certainly be leaving Skellig with upgrades, and this could easily include new magical weapons, one of which could be used by Casca. I will refrain from going into further detail as this is not really the place I think.

Schierke is keeping Guts sane

Schierke is keeping Guts in control. Even then as Aazealh has already said, Casca is in his thoughts at those times.

That is kinda cheap in my opinion. The child has no relevance so far, he was just a tool for a greater being to come. We will get something more about him (officially we almost know nothing), that is for sure, but for now he isn't that much relevant to think that he needs to be saved. We need to know if he even needs to be saved.

Never underestimate the primal love a mother can have for her child. Especially if she loves the father. Does she need any other reason to want to try to save the child?
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Aazealh on July 03, 2016, 08:20:14 PM
What I meant is that he would kill her anyway, if not for Schierke. He wants to be sane for Casca, but Casca isn't actually the one to "take him back".

Without Casca, Schierke couldn't bring him back. Casca does not magically intervene to take him out of the armor's Od, no (duh). But she is what is used to bring him back to his senses. By Schierke or by the Moonlight Boy.

Maybe my choice of words was poor... if Casca gets sane and okay, how will Guts get back on his revenge path? We all can say that he doesn't really feel the hatred now, it's not so important now. I would like to see something happening to Casca, not dying in particular, just something that will make Guts mad/sad. Something that was foreshadowed by SK long time ago.

There are a myriad of ways the story could go that would set the group on a path to Falconia. Like I said above, it doesn't even have to be revenge. Stopping Griffith could mean stopping a worldwide catastrophe. It could also be to save their son. I've talked about this a million times before so I'm not going to go on, but you get the idea. And contrary to what you say, Guts still feels a strong hatred for Griffith, he just sits on it because he has other priorities. The idea that Guts absolutely needs to feel bad for something to happen seems extremely simplistic to me, almost puerile really.

To Guts. She won't be useful even after recovering since everyone is a lot stronger and she can't fight without getting properly trained. Guts needs a power-up to defeat his enemies, not just Casca and I don't see Berserk as a simple story where power of love defeats the ancient evil. It has to be more complex than that.

Yeah, to Guts, the main character and the leader of the group. That doesn't count to you? Also, you're assuming a lot regarding her fighting prowess. I'm willing to bet you'll be proven wrong. As for the complexity of Berserk, clearly from this discussion I don't think you quite grasp it. :iva:

Their child isn't even important now, he doesn't exist for now. We are just assuming things, we can't tell for sure what his role will be.

Oh, you mean you haven't yet realized the Boy in the Moonlight is their son? I see. :rakshas:
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: TricksieThiefsie on July 03, 2016, 08:35:47 PM
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Oh, you mean you haven't yet realized the Boy in the Moonlight is their son? I see. :rakshas:

Nice assumption. Let me know when this is actually confirmed and not just a theory.

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Yeah, to Guts, the main character and the leader of the group. That doesn't count to you? Also, you're assuming a lot regarding her fighting prowess. I'm willing to bet you'll be proven wrong. As for the complexity of Berserk, clearly from this discussion I don't think you quite grasp it.

I don't grasp what exactly? That Guts is still underpowered compared to the Godhand and he needs a real power, not some love shenanigans? It's not a shounen, but Guts will fight again and again and he needs a lot more, curing Casca will be only a small step in that regard I believe. He will get some confidence and possibly something more from seeing her being normal, but that won't make him strong enough to kill the antagonist.

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There are a myriad of ways the story could go that would set the group on a path to Falconia. Like I said above, it doesn't even have to be revenge. Stopping Griffith could mean stopping a worldwide catastrophe. It could also be to save their son. I've talked about this a million times before so I'm not going to go on, but you get the idea. And contrary to what you say, Guts still feels a strong hatred for Griffith, he just sits on it because he has other priorities. The idea that Guts absolutely needs to feel bad for something to happen seems extremely simplistic to me, almost puerile really.

Guts never really cared about the world itself. He is less "edgy" now, but to make him care about the whole world seems almost impossible without involving his own agenda. He is not that kind of a hero. The best option I can see for that is him killing the Godhand just because they stand in his way to Griffith and thus saving everything.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Aazealh on July 03, 2016, 08:57:30 PM
Nice assumption. Let me know when this is actually confirmed and not just a theory.

Oh sure thing, I will. It won't be long now. :ubik:

I don't grasp what exactly? That Guts is still underpowered compared to the Godhand and he needs a real power, not some love shenanigans? It's not a shounen, but Guts will fight again and again and he needs a lot more, curing Casca will be only a small step in that regard I believe. He will get some confidence and possibly something more from seeing her being normal, but that won't make him strong enough to kill the antagonist.

You don't grasp why this isn't a shounen. Why Guts doesn't just need a "power-up" (and using video game lingo in itself is already reductive, as far as I'm concerned). Your focus on Casca being useful in a fight (which I have no doubt she will be) and your dismissal until now of the importance of her presence at Guts' side are examples of this. Yes, Guts is fighting against much stronger enemies. That's a core aspect of the story. He'll never be as strong as Femto. Never. But he'll win regardless. He wasn't as fast as Rochine, he wasn't as powerful as the Slug Count, he wasn't even an appetizer to the Sea God. But he beat them all. Maybe he'll be given some new equipment in Elfhelm. Maybe the Berserk's armor will be modified to help him in battle. But that's not more important than Casca's return. It's not more important to him, and it's not more important to the story. And if you think otherwise, well, you're going to be disappointed.

Now that being said, I don't understand why you think those things are opposites and can't happen concurrently? I mean it's not either one or the other. Casca will probably return and Guts will probably get some help, as will all the others. It seems to me that you're the one trying to simplify things here and for no reason.

Guts never really cared about the world itself. He is less "edgy" now, but to make him care about the whole world seems almost impossible without involving his own agenda. He is not that kind of a hero. The best option I can see for that is him killing the Godhand just because they stand in his way to Griffith and thus saving everything.

Side note: "God Hand" is written as two separate words, just like "Dragon Slayer". Anyway, Guts' agenda is his revenge. But that doesn't mean there won't be more to it. You say he's not the kind of hero to care about the world, but he's grown a lot over the years, and he will continue to do so. Knowing there's a lot at stake, he might just respond with "Alright, I've got unfinished business with this lot anyway" and that'll be it. It doesn't mean the stakes won't weigh in the balance. And for the record, I don't think each member of the God Hand will be lined up in a corridor for him to defeat on the way to Griffith. This isn't a video game.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Feeblecursedone on July 03, 2016, 09:03:56 PM
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Guts never really cared about the world itself. He is less "edgy" now, but to make him care about the whole world seems almost impossible without involving his own agenda. He is not that kind of a hero. The best option I can see for that is him killing the Godhand just because they stand in his way to Griffith and thus saving everything.

The problem is, this is not pre- Hawk teen Guts anymore who has no one to care about and is only wandering the battlefields for money and food. He has genuine friends now, a woman, and their very survival is connected to the outcome of this " war " . He has no choice. He has to attempt to stop IOE/Griffith/God Hand. And stopping them means stopping something worldwide.  He also changed, he'll never be a goodie-goodie, no, but he evolved farm from the demon shell of a kid/man that he used to be in past.

Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: TricksieThiefsie on July 03, 2016, 09:19:16 PM
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Side note: "God Hand" is written as two separate words, just like "Dragon Slayer".

Thanks, I'll remember that.

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Oh sure thing, I will. It won't be long now. :ubik:

It's just not really cool to take any assumption as a given. It's very plausible but not confirmed.

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You don't grasp why this isn't a shounen. Why Guts doesn't just need a "power-up" (and using video game lingo in itself is already reductive, as far as I'm concerned). Your focus on Casca being useful in a fight (which I have no doubt she will be) and your dismissal until now of the importance of her presence at Guts' side are examples of this. Yes, Guts is fighting against much stronger enemies. That's a core aspect of the story. He'll never be as strong as Femto. Never. But he'll win regardless. He wasn't as fast as Rochine, he wasn't as powerful as the Slug Count, he wasn't even an appetizer to the Sea God. But he beat them all. Maybe he'll be given some new equipment in Elfhelm. Maybe the Berserk's armor will be modified to help him in battle. But that's not more important than Casca's return. It's not more important to him, and it's not more important to the story. And if you think otherwise, well, you're going to be disappointed.

Now that being said, I don't understand why you think those things are opposites and can't happen concurrently? I mean it's not either one or the other. Casca will probably return and Guts will probably get some help, as will all the others. It seems to me that you're the one trying to simplify things here and for no reason.

I keep in mind that Guts is not only for killing some monsters, he has his feelings and his desires aswell, yes. I am just trying to see the big picture where Guts has to be strong enough to fulfill his path of revenge (because in the end it is the story about revenge). We have to remember that he is actually getting weaker, losing his humanity and that kind of stuff.

 And no, we don't actually need Berserk armor getting stronger, do we? Guts already does too much even with its potential drawback. If you mean Beast of Darkness, that is what keeps Guts interesting in my opinion. One of the most important themes in Berserk is the struggle. He has to fear himself, think about how far he can go until the end. If he gets healed of any drawbacks on the elf island, well, the story will suffer a lot from that.

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And for the record, I don't think each member of the God Hand will be lined up in a corridor for him to defeat on the way to Griffith. This isn't a video game.

Let's not be silly, if story demands them being dead, they will die in one way or another.




Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Aazealh on July 03, 2016, 09:28:43 PM
It's just not really cool to take any assumption as a given. It's very plausible but not confirmed.

I'm 100% certain it is the case, based on what's in the manga. It's much more than "an assumption". Again, this isn't the thread for it, but if you want to talk about it via PM, I'll be happy to.

I keep in mind that Guts is not only for killing some monsters, he has his feelings and his desires aswell, yes. I am just trying to see the big picture where Guts has to be strong enough to fulfill his path of revenge (because in the end it is the story about revenge). We have to remember that he is actually getting weaker, losing his humanity and that kind of stuff.

Well I think you're not seeing the big picture if you think Casca is unimportant, and that Guts would be just fine with leaving her behind to "go get his revenge". And I think Berserk is more than a story about revenge.

And no, we don't actually need Berserk armor getting stronger, do we? Guts already does too much even with its potential drawback. If you mean Beast of Darkness, that is what keeps Guts interesting in my opinion. One of the most important themes in Berserk is the struggle. He has to fear himself, think about how far hecan go until the end. If he gets healed of any drawbacks on the elf island, well, the story will suffer a lot from that.

Who said anything about it "getting stronger"? I mean the Berserk's armor only lets its wearer use strength beyond their body's natural limits, so that's not even really possible. What I meant was something more in line with the tasliman Flora carved inside the chestplate. As for the Beast of Darkness, I've already said in this thread that I don't believe for a minute that it will be "cured", since it's become such a central theme for Guts. It could, however, be tamed in a way that would make it more useful for Guts (Guts has already started this process). Casca seems like the ideal vehicle for that, along some much needed reflection on Guts' part. The King of the Flower Storm may also help, obviously.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: TricksieThiefsie on July 03, 2016, 09:41:55 PM
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It could, however, be tamed in a way that would make it more useful for Guts (Guts has already started this process).

This is probably very subjective but I think taming it would make it pretty much useless. Guts hasn't done anything really bad so far because of it. He wanted to kill his friends but in the end nothing really happened. I would like to see it actually going even further, not necessarily killing someone dear to him, just make Guts even more of a mad dog he used to be. Maybe it's me but I see Beast of Darkness as something separate, a being that feeds on Guts emotions and now he has more power than ever, it's just Guts who got also better at suspressing it. I wouldn't mind seeing Beast of Darkness being separated from Guts physically. That would be interesting to see how that would work but I doubt it will actually happen.


Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Griffith on July 03, 2016, 09:49:28 PM
Well, I don't want to jump in on the quote-fest so I'll just make a small statement on the probability of Battlfield: Elfhelm.

It's not so much an assumption as an idea, and of course we're limited by what we know and what we don't. For all we know part of the point of breaking the seals is ultimately for the God Hand to attack and destroy Elfhelm (and whatever other advantages or benefits that may provide besides destroying one's opposition). Or not, I can also see Guts and co leaving on their own after going about their business, the suspense provided by the relativity of time and whatever trials they must pass to accomplish their goals (plus the inherent excitement and drama of Casca's potential recovery). But either way there's no end of credible scenarios Miura can build with this foundation, and a battle is seldom a bad guess. Of course I'd like to see something majorly consequential like that setting up a final showdown in Falconia, but we'll see how it unfolds. Miura usually surprises us by going even bigger, and more unique, than we expect.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Aazealh on July 03, 2016, 09:55:35 PM
This is probably very subjective but I think taming it would make it pretty much useless. Guts hasn't done anything really bad so far because of it. He wanted to kill his friends but in the end nothing really happened. I would like to see it actually going even further, not necessarily killing someone dear to him, just make Guts even more of a mad dog he used to be.

Well I think it really got quite near catastrophic a few times. I mean you don't usually survive being hit by the Dragon Slayer. While nothing bad's happened so far (and it did come very close), I think the danger of bad things happening has been a hindrance. If Guts can fully focus his anger on his enemies while his friends back him up, he'll be even more formidable than he has been so far. To me this is clearly the way things will go, as opposed to him having less control like what you're saying.

Maybe it's me but I see Beast of Darkness as something separate, a being that feeds on Guts emotions and now he has more power than ever, it's just Guts who got also better at suspressing it. I wouldn't mind seeing Beast of Darkness being separated from Guts physically. That would be interesting to see how that would work but I doubt it will actually happen.

This is actually a common misconception. The Beast of Darkness is a personification of Guts' dark side. What that means is that it's a literary device where a character embodies a concept. The Beast of Darkness is really just a part of Guts' mind, almost a figment of his imagination you could say. It's purely a mental, psychological construct. It represents all of his dark feelings: his fear, hatred, rage, guilt and even his drive for death. I guess you could say it also represents his trauma from the Eclipse. Just like Casca was rendered ill, Guts still deals to this day with the mental damage of what happened. In the episode where it speaks to him in his dreams, Miura even made it so the sentences in Japanese were like Guts was talking to himself.

So in short, the idea that it's a seperate being is wrong, and you'll never see it become its own thing physically, at least other than what we got in volume 16 (where specters took its form to taunt Guts). Maybe we'll see Guts fight it within his own mind or something, but that's it.

But either way there's no end of credible scenarios Miura can build with this foundation, and a battle is seldom a bad guess. Of course I'd like to see something majorly consequential like that setting up a final showdown in Falconia, but we'll see how it unfolds. Miura usually surprises us by going even bigger, and more unique, than we expect.

If there's one thing we can be sure about, it's that whatever way Miura chooses to take the story, it'll be awesome. :guts:
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: TricksieThiefsie on July 03, 2016, 10:00:29 PM
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This is actually a common misconception. The Beast of Darkness is a personification of Guts' dark side. What that means is that it's a literary device where a character embodies a concept. The Beast of Darkness is really just a part of Guts' mind, almost a figment of his imagination you could say. It's purely a mental, psychological construct. It represents all of his dark feelings: his fear, hatred, rage, guilt and even his drive for death. I guess you could say it also represents his trauma from the Eclipse. Just like Casca was rendered ill, Guts still deals to this day with the mental damage of what happened. In the episode where it speaks to him in his dreams, Miura even made it so the sentences in Japanese were like Guts was talking to himself.

So in short, the idea that it's a seperate being is wrong, and you'll never see it become its own thing physically, at least other than what we got in volume 16 (where specters took its form to taunt Guts). Maybe we'll see Guts fight it within his own mind or something, but that's it.

I can agree with that but I still would like to see BoD being separate. This not a rare theme where a part of you becomes an independent being, just it's not the best for Berserk. Doesn't make that much sense really, I was speaking strictly about "what if" kind of stuff.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: -cause on July 05, 2016, 06:36:49 AM
If the Elf King's method of retrieving Casca's mind is similar to what we saw when Schierke was searching for Guts' sanity (so to speak) when he lost control with the Berserk Armor a while back and Schierke saw glimpses of Guts' past memories, do you guys think that we'll get to see some memories, perhaps with prolonged detail, concerning Casca's early childhood? For example, perhaps some background on her parents and her five other siblings and their lives together before Casca left with the nobleman; of course, more than we are already aware of.

I doubt we'll get that sort of attention to something so minuscule but it would be a treat to get more info on her early life.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Aazealh on July 05, 2016, 07:12:26 AM
If the Elf King's method of retrieving Casca's mind is similar to what we saw when Schierke was searching for Guts' sanity (so to speak) when he lost control with the Berserk Armor a while back and Schierke saw glimpses of Guts' past memories, do you guys think that we'll get to see some memories, perhaps with prolonged detail, concerning Casca's early childhood? For example, perhaps some background on her parents and her five other siblings and their lives together before Casca left with the nobleman; of course, more than we are already aware of.

Someone asked that same question earlier and my answer was that I think we'll see a bunch of her memories, but probably not too many new and unknown events in detail. I think it will be more events we already know about, but from her perspective, and especially the Eclipse, since that's where he trauma originates. That being said, let's not forget the wording we were giving: gallery of dreams. That means we might see some more surreal experiences that don't reflect reality. For example Casca could have surrounded herself in a fantasy world where nothing ever went wrong, and she could be unwilling to leave it because of what lays at the edges of it: the nightmares of the Eclipse. The King (and Guts?) would then have to convince her to dispel that comforting illusion and face the truth of what happened.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Johnny Apples on July 05, 2016, 10:05:59 AM
For example Casca could have surrounded herself in a fantasy world where nothing ever went wrong, and she could be unwilling to leave it because of what lays at the edges of it: the nightmares of the Eclipse. The King (and Guts?) would then have to convince her to dispel that comforting illusion and face the truth of what happened.

If that's the case, then would it be correct to assume that The King and Guts will be doing with Casca something similar to what psychiatrists do in real life with the survivors of rape? 
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Aazealh on July 05, 2016, 10:32:37 AM
If that's the case, then would it be correct to assume that The King and Guts will be doing with Casca something similar to what psychiatrists do in real life with the survivors of rape?

Maybe in the broadest sense (a kind of cognitive therapy), but I would caution against trying to relate it to real life stuff. Berserk remains a fantasy story, and everything in it reflects that. The circumstances of Casca's trauma are exceptional, as is her condition, and as will be the means of healing her.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Feeblecursedone on July 05, 2016, 10:59:39 AM
It's gonna be so interesting to see Casca's reaction to her whereabouts as well as her dynamic with the new party. Especially her inner thoughts on Griffith and Eclipse. I'm not even a fan of her yet the prospect of her returning in full force is quite exciting. I guess its time for her trademark warrior haircut to come back.

I wonder if Isidro's pranks will remind her of how Carcus used to annoy her and mess with her, but this time as a sad memory. Not exactly the same thing but i guess close enough.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Rhombaad on July 05, 2016, 01:14:38 PM
I've talked about it before, so maybe you're thinking of that? Anyway I think it would be more interesting than a repeat of what happened at Flora's place. A supernatural attack might also befit the place itself more than monsters ready for slaughter, what with it being the Elf capital, plus being populated by magic users.

Maybe. I think it would be more interesting, too. My wife and I were discussing this scenario the other day, and we thought it would be cool having Ubik and/or Conrad show up, but what if Miura pulls something even more unexpected out of his hat: Void?

That's not a supposition, Ged says so in the episode. It's basically what Flora had told Schierke in volume 27 "I'll see you in your dreams." Maybe we'll finally get to see that. :ubik:

Gotcha. My bad. I hope so. That would be pretty sweet. :guts:
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: jackson_hurley on July 05, 2016, 02:17:00 PM

Another thing that's been in the back of my head since we saw the Wicker Man is how different magic users may have been during Gaiseric's time compared to now. That's a pretty big deal too. Watching the anime's first episode made me think again about the haunted tree and how the sacrificial ritual associated with it might have actually been used by real magic users to harness power (as opposed to crazy cultists). What I'm guessing is that not all witches were focused on nature and elemental magic back then. There might have been two or more factions, and the ones using "blood magic" may have been at the root of what is now the axis of evil: the Idea of Evil, God Hand and apostles. I'm very eager to learn more about this.



Aaz, you be might on to something there with your idea of magic user doing weird ritual way back in the past. I was reading the part about the tree being hunted and in one panel we do see 3 "heretics" with long robes and hoods on their head and 2 of them seem to hold staff in their hands. I can't wait to learn more indeed. But it seems very plausible to me now that you mentioned it.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Walter on July 05, 2016, 03:06:23 PM
Aaz, you be might on to something there with your idea of magic user doing weird ritual way back in the past. I was reading the part about the tree being hunted and in one panel we do see 3 "heretics" with long robes and hoods on their head and 2 of them seem to hold staff in their hands. I can't wait to learn more indeed. But it seems very plausible to me now that you mentioned it.

Yeah, it's a cool idea. We've talked about the potential behind the possessed tree before, and those mysterious robed figures, on the Vol 14 podcast (http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=14600.0). But I think the appearance of the Wicker Man, powered by tortured souls, gives additional credence to the notion that there was an older, different school of magic.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: jackson_hurley on July 05, 2016, 03:25:12 PM
Yeah, it's a cool idea. We've talked about the potential behind the possessed tree before, and those mysterious robed figures, on the Vol 14 podcast (http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=14600.0). But I think the appearance of the Wicker Man, powered by tortured souls, gives additional credence to the notion that there was an older, different school of magic.

Indeed. This could even, at some point,be linked to the theory that the wise man was some kind of magic user and delve into the deep abyss to meet the idea and bring back the first beherit.

Probably not this exactly but something in the likes would be interesting.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Aazealh on July 05, 2016, 03:27:25 PM
This could even, at some point,be linked to the theory that the wise man was some kind of magic user

That's what I was hinting at in the post you quoted just above.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: jackson_hurley on July 05, 2016, 03:39:24 PM
That's what I was hinting at in the post you quoted just above.

Oups sorry, I read to quickly the last line!

But these theories are so intriguing to me! It's incredible how well crafted Miura's work is. This is very much why I like hanging around here. I have to admit I would have not develop these theories by myself and since I don't have many friends reading Berserk I'm kinda alone to talk about it. Thank you very much Skullknight for existing and a bigger thank you for those who keep running it. (You know who you are)
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Henry Spencer on July 05, 2016, 04:46:18 PM
Not pertinent to this Episode but I think Rickert may perhaps craft some fine weapons for Silat to use in the future? At least as a way of saying 'thanks', right? Or simply upgrade the tools he already has, at least.

I do look forward to seeing Skull Knight's return. Wonder if he ever got over his last loss. Imagine Guts turning up to some other part of the island and seeing Skully already sat on a rock crying out "he can't keep getting away with this!" (regarding Griffith) Jesse from Breaking Bad style.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Aazealh on July 05, 2016, 05:11:45 PM
Not pertinent to this Episode but I think Rickert may perhaps craft some fine weapons for Silat to use in the future? At least as a way of saying 'thanks', right? Or simply upgrade the tools he already has, at least.

Indeed he might, and I look forward to seeing what they might look like. I said it back then but the alliance the best engineer around with the Bakiraka, a clan of fighters who've pushed their bodies at their maximum, is going to be extremely cool.

I do look forward to seeing Skull Knight's return. Wonder if he ever got over his last loss. Imagine Guts turning up to some other part of the island and seeing Skully already sat on a rock crying out "he can't keep getting away with this!" (regarding Griffith) Jesse from Breaking Bad style.

While he got played last time, I don't think it would be like him to dwell on it in such a manner. The question is more: what's the next move?
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Feeblecursedone on July 05, 2016, 09:37:49 PM
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may have been at the root of what is now the axis of evil: the Idea of Evil, God Hand and apostles. I'm very eager to learn more about this.

Care to expand on that Aaz? Do you mean like, roots of religion and its general influence on people and state of mind that lead to birth of evil in humans?

Quite interesting in any case. I'll have to re-read that scene. I like occult stuff.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Aazealh on July 05, 2016, 11:22:03 PM
Care to expand on that Aaz? Do you mean like, roots of religion and its general influence on people and state of mind that lead to birth of evil in humans?

I don't think you can talk of a birth of evil in humans, and especially not related to religion or any such thing. Humans always had negative emotions inside them, that's part of mankind. There's love and hate, hope and despair, trust and fear, generosity and envy, empathy and disdain, forgiveness and anger, happiness and sadness, etc. Our understanding of the world of Berserk is that evil, or more precisely evil power, stems from there. The world consists of three realms: Corporeal, Astral and Ideal. In the realm of Ideas (in the Platonic sense of the word), human souls are divided according to their karma (good or bad) and merged together in a great ocean. That ocean is connected to mankind's collective consciousness. At some point in time, the part of that ocean (a giant vortex) that corresponds to negative emotions and that houses the evil souls gave birth to an entity called the Idea of Evil. That sentient being embodies humanity's dark side and acts as a god.

There is an episode that was prepublished in Young Animal but that Miura decided to not include in the volumes, because it revealed too much about the world too early on in the story, and he felt it would limit its growth. It would have been in volume 13 and is numbered episode 83. That episode features a talk between Griffith and the Idea of Evil during Griffith's transformation into Femto. In that episode (which isn't canon but hasn't been invalidated so far), the Idea of Evil explains to Griffith that it was brought into existence to give humans reasons for all the bad things that befell them and that they couldn't understand. It produces these reasons by controling the fate of men, and it does so in part through the manipulation of the principle of causality.

Anyway, what I was referring to was more the establishment of the God Hand. The God Hand had to start at some point. Did the Idea of Evil reach out to its first member, or did a man reach out to the Idea of Evil? We know there is a tale of a "wise man", said to have been imprisoned by Gaiseric, who prayed until "an angel descended". Obviously the tale is unreliable, but there is no doubt a core of truth to it. Now let's go back to evil for a moment. We know that the God Hand as well as the apostles are fueled by the evil magic power that I detailed above. We also know that the Wicker Man, a creation that was taboo in Skellig, was powered by human souls harvested through sacrifices.

So my reflexion is simple: what if in ancient times there was a subsection of magic users who tinkered with the power of the human soul and more specifically that evil side? What if there was a falling out between these magic users and those who were partisans of a strictly natural use of magic, based on elementals? What if the Emperor of the time launched a campaign of repression against these practices? He could have even turned on some former allies in the process, people who had helped him reach his status. Speculating some more: what if most magic had been outlawed or magic users had naturally migrated away from the giant capital erected by the emperor as a symbol of the power of man? That would have made it more vulnerable to those who delved into "evil magic".

One last thing, tangential but it's food for thought: why was the Astral World sealed away to begin with? Who did it, when, and why?
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: -cause on July 06, 2016, 01:34:22 AM
Ya, for all the reasons Aazealh and others gave, this past episode and the ones that follow truly are some of the most important of the entire series. I think it's safe to assume that the majority of big unkowns that fans having been wanting answers to for decades are about to be explained.

Probably one of the most exciting times to be caught up with the series.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Walter on July 06, 2016, 02:17:14 AM
So my reflexion is simple: what if in ancient times there was a subsection of magic users who tinkered with the power of the human soul and more specifically that evil side? What if there was a falling out between these magic users and those who were partisans of a strictly natural use of magic, based on elementals? What if the Emperor of the time launched a campaign of repression against these practices? He could have even turned on some former allies in the process, people who had helped him reach his status. Speculating some more: what if most magic had been outlawed or magic users had naturally migrated away from the giant capital erected by the emperor as a symbol of the power of man? That would have made it more vulnerable to those who delved into "evil magic".

Wow! Hope you folks at home are sitting down, Aaz is taking a rare stab at the mystery of 1000 years ago!

I like many of your ideas here, and as you know, I gravitate to them too. That Gaiseric was all about the power of man seems grounded. But I can't imagine a scenario where a ban on magic by the Emperor like you've described would have so quickly affected the state of magic on the continent. I understand that you're trying to set up the scenario of a magical power vacuum, with the capital left defenseless for an all-out assault. But Miura's explanation for things as they currently are seems more feasible: The migration of magic away from the continent was a a gradual process, over centuries, as a direct result of the spread of the Holy See's doctrine.

That being said, such a ban could have been enforced internally, within the capital, and among his associates. I do very much like the notion of Gaiseric turning his back on his former associates. Perhaps using powerful dark magic powered by souls was all well and good while on the campaign to unify the continent, but after securing the capital and a time of peace emerged, he was prepared to bury it -- but not everyone was.

Another detail lingers, and it's significant for this whole puzzle — the wiseman was tortured, not just imprisoned or killed outright (and I'm with  you on this possibly being the genesis of the God Hand). I wonder what he could have done to incur the emperor's wrath in such a way...

Quote
One last thing, tangential but it's food for thought: why was the Astral World sealed away to begin with? Who did it, when, and why?

At question is whether the current state of the world is a wholly new order, or a return to how life was 1,000 years ago. Magic certainly held a more esteemed role on the continent back then, but were magical creatures always roaming around, prowling for human meat?

What I'm getting at is, I can't imagine it was magic users who erected such seals to maintain the integrity of the worlds. Afterall, it was the Holy See that assisted humanity in distancing itself from supernatural forces. I think those seals probably have existed forever, as a part of a natural balance, and Femto's campaign to extinguish them was intended to structurally weaken the barrier so that when he struck Ganishka, nothing could hinder the tidal wave of change — like a carefully planned demolition. Now the world is in true chaos, and my guess is that this state of affairs is more violent than 1,000 years ago.

I think it's safe to assume that the majority of big unkowns that fans having been wanting answers to for decades are about to be explained.

I'm excited too, but I really doubt we'll get an explanation of "the majority of big unknowns" in the next few episodes. I actually think Ged's explanation will be about phenomenon we weren't even privy to before now, but absolutely I'll eagerly accept a light shined on a few of the series' big mysteries.

Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Kaladin on July 06, 2016, 03:04:03 AM
when we do get a Gaiseric flashback, how long do you guys think it will be? and how long would you want it to be? a few episodes? a volume? multiple volumes? the longer the better in my opinion, would be pretty great if we get a really detailed flashback on the events that happened 1000 years ago. sk deserves it  :badbone:

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Not pertinent to this Episode but I think Rickert may perhaps craft some fine weapons for Silat to use in the future? At least as a way of saying 'thanks', right? Or simply upgrade the tools he already has, at least.

that could definitely happen, he'll probably make some new equipment for guts as well, a present for when they meet again. it would also be pretty cool if he actually did some training with the bakiraka and learned some of their fighting techniques, if we do get a timeskip of 5-7 years, a lot could happen in that time frame.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Aazealh on July 06, 2016, 09:16:34 AM
I like many of your ideas here, and as you know, I gravitate to them too. That Gaiseric was all about the power of man seems grounded. But I can't imagine a scenario where a ban on magic by the Emperor like you've described would have so quickly affected the state of magic on the continent. I understand that you're trying to set up the scenario of a magical power vacuum, with the capital left defenseless for an all-out assault. But Miura's explanation for things as they currently are seems more feasible: The migration of magic away from the continent was a a gradual process, over centuries, as a direct result of the spread of the Holy See's doctrine.

I didn't mean continent-wide, just in the capital city itself. I don't think it's incompatible with a gradual disappearance in the wider world.

Perhaps using powerful dark magic powered by souls was all well and good while on the campaign to unify the continent, but after securing the capital and a time of peace emerged, he was prepared to bury it -- but not everyone was.

That's what I was hinting at, yes. There could also be another way to see it. Magic was difficult to use in the capital because of the extreme concentration of people, same as what we saw in Vritannis but on a much bigger scale. Elementals and such weren't found there. But a dedicated scholar found (or just focused on) a new type of power instead, and became fascinated by it. Did some gruesome rituals and experiments to harness it. Maybe even had a following within the city. That could have been what led the emperor to send him away, and to want to make him pay.

At question is whether the current state of the world is a wholly new order, or a return to how life was 1,000 years ago. Magic certainly held a more esteemed role on the continent back then, but were magical creatures always roaming around, prowling for human meat?

Yes, this is a central question. It could go both ways, but I like the idea that astral creatures already existed back then, but that magic was prelavent enough that they did not represent the same existential threat to mankind that they do today. It seems odd to me that it would have only been elves (who were confirmed to be more prevalent) and nothing more. The vision I have is that every village had its witch and they knew how to make sure trolls or goblins left them alone. It wasn't heaven on earth, but they could live and prosper well enough.

What I'm getting at is, I can't imagine it was magic users who erected such seals to maintain the integrity of the worlds. Afterall, it was the Holy See that assisted humanity in distancing itself from supernatural forces. I think those seals probably have existed forever, as a part of a natural balance

Given that the seals were apparently forests of spiritual trees, a natural origin seems most plausible. But let me speculate about the other possibility just for the sake of it. The Holy See rose, sure, but it didn't make dragons disappear. It just very gradually stirred people away from the use of magic, and together with time made them forget about what had been before. But just like Farnese's faith didn't shield her from Puck's antics (or from being possessed by specters), the Holy See itself couldn't have possibly made the entire Astral World disappear. So then there's two possibilities: either it never was like it is now to begin with, or the separation had another concomitant trigger. The seals fit that bill. And the fact they were trees mean they slowly grew and that could explain the gradual aspect. As the trees became stronger over hundreds of years, so did the seals, and the Astral Word faded away.

Now we're back to my question though: who did it and why? Well, maybe the Emperor of All Men wanted for his people to truly prosper. Maybe he felt that those roaming beasts you mentioned held mankind back from a greater future. He could have ordered the seals created (that presumes whoever helped him could travel all over the world though). Another possibility is that after the first member of the God Hand rose, magic users all around the world felt the great danger he posed. They erected the seals in an attempt to shield mankind (and the world) from this threat. To confine it. We can even imagine a battle taking place between magic users and the forces of evil that decimated a lot of them, and this being a last resort. Maybe that's why there aren't many adults in Skellig's Witch Village, because they went into the wider world to do their part. Going further, this opposition would also explain why the Holy See's temples are "often built on top of spirit shrines", basically replacing them, as Schierke revealed in volume 24. It's a systematic attempt to snuff out the use of magic from the world, most likely engineered by the God Hand.

Or maybe the strength of the seals simply has a natural ebb and flow, like a real forest where old trees will die and new ones regrow. That could explain it too. Obviously this is all high wire speculation, but I feel like there's more to those seals than having existed since time immemorial. If we look at volume 24 for example, Schierke explains that Flora's tree attainted its status because it had been worshipped by arboreal animists. That's why its astral self kept on existing even after its corporeal form died off. There's even a small text mentioning that such a tree could take a monstrous form under certain circumstances... a clear reference to the haunted tree from volume 14 to me.

By the way, was the tree Rochine had chosen as her lair a spirit tree? Sounds possible to me. Way to go, Guts! :puck:
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Feeblecursedone on July 06, 2016, 12:09:25 PM
Damn. Once again, Berserk proves there's so many layers wrapped up in layers which are wrapped up in more layers! I just have to find time and re-read volume 14 and 24. This talk on World's background, soul powered dark magic and what not really hyped me up. Now I really want to see Void's backstory.

So if Void was the first scholar/sorcerer who experimented with souls, particulary evil ones, perhaps he's the one who came up with the sacrifical brand and beherits themselves. Maybe beherits are made from dead human souls as well, particulary ones filled with dark emotions? Maybe the reason why Beherits react the way they do when the time is right and ascension to apostlehood/godhandhood is about to begin because of the very material that is made of, entrapped souls reacting to a person's soul in distress, which then opens up a portal to God Hand, because of that human connection and connection to IOE.  and calling upon godhand ( well at least the technicals behind it ) .  Since corporeal world and ideal can't interact directly, it would make sense if the first member of God Hand created a medium for it.

Also, this has been bothering me for a while

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who prayed until "an angel descended"

If Void was the first God Hand member, who's the angel? Maybe IOE had a way to establish contact with via an illusion, or through a vision and so it chose to present itself in a physical form.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: MrFlibble on July 06, 2016, 12:32:16 PM
I doubt there will be a Elfhelm war demon siege, if Griffith were going to attack Skellig he would have done it already, he has as much of a chance now than as he did before Falconia, in fact he's in a worse position to do so now since he has less apostles, with some being occupied providing safe passage for refugees. There might be a reason why he can't attack them directly, they might have some kind of anti demon barrier erected or apostles might be unable to fight toe to toe with mages. Or it could be that Griffith is unaware of their existence. Also a similar event has played out already, Flora provides safe refuge, apostles arrive and burn down the place, it would be repetitive to do the same thing again.



So if Void was the first scholar/sorcerer who experimented with souls, particulary evil ones, perhaps he's the one who came up with the sacrifical brand and beherits themselves. Maybe beherits are made from dead human souls as well, particulary ones filled with dark emotions?


The behirits come from the Idea of Evil, they form as droplets in the deep astral world and become stones in the physical world, the IOE uses the vortex of souls to transform Griffith into Femto, the Eclipse ceremony world was composed of souls, apostles are forged out of souls, and behirits that ascend from the vortex itself are likely created the same way.


If Void was the first God Hand member, who's the angel? Maybe IOE had a way to establish contact with via an illusion, or through a vision.




The angel was likely him, from an outsiders perspective, the Wiseman is tortured, and a spooky brain man appears. But it is the wise man transforming into Void, an angel "Made" by the idea to descend.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Aazealh on July 06, 2016, 12:38:57 PM
when we do get a Gaiseric flashback, how long do you guys think it will be?

It could go from only a few pages to, at most, a few episodes.

So if Void was the first scholar/sorcerer who experimented with souls, particulary evil ones, perhaps he's the one who came up with the sacrifical brand and beherits themselves. Maybe beherits are made from dead human souls as well, particulary ones filled with dark emotions? Maybe the reason why Beherits react the way they do when the time is right and ascension to apostlehood/godhandhood is about to begin because of the very material that is made of, entrapped souls reacting to a person's soul in distress, which then opens up a portal to God Hand, because of that human connection and connection to IOE.

We know how beherits are made and where they come from. It is shown to us when Griffith's soul descends into the Abyss in volume 13, where they rise up as droplets of ideas towards the "surface". It's further explained by Flora in volume 24, when she tells Guts that the beherits are sent to the corporeal world by a "higher being" (the Idea of Evil) and that it is It who controls them. Therefore, no man can "activate" them, for it is their true master who decides when and where they must be used. That aside, the idea that the Brand itself may have been Void's creation has indeed crossed my mind.

On a side note, I was telling Walter yesterday that it would be cool to see Miura reinterpret episode 83 in the future, during Void's flashback. We could see his descent to the Abyss, his meeting with God and get some juicy details. It'd end like this:

"What do you desire, Albion?"
- Knowledge

If Void was the first God Hand member, who's the angel?

Like I said in my post, that tale is quite obviously unreliable. There doesn't need to be an angel. Maybe his own transformation made him pass as one for example.

the Eclipse ceremony world was forged out of souls, apostles are forged out of souls

We don't know how the location the Eclipse ceremony took place in was created, but I doubt it was "forged". And apostles aren't "forged" either, they're humans whose souls are infused with evil power.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Feeblecursedone on July 06, 2016, 12:42:42 PM
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We know how beherits are made and where they come from. It is shown to us when Griffith's soul descends into the Abyss in volume 13, where they rise up as droplets of ideas towards the "surface". It's further explained by Flora in volume 24, when she tells Guts that the beherits are sent to the corporeal world by a "higher being" (the Idea of Evil) and that it is It who controls them. Therefore, no man can "activate" them, for it is their true master who decides when and where they must be used. That aside, the idea that the Brand itself may have been Void's creation has indeed crossed my mind.

Ah alright. Been a while since i've re-read the manga. Thanks for explanation. You too Wenlinvictus.



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Or it could be that Griffith is unaware of their existence

I find that unlikely. God hand members can see the future and as such are probably aware of most of the things going on in the world. Griffith's attack on spiritual trees all over the world is a proof of that. Its not like he needs a map.

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apostles are forged out of souls

I think you meant apostle's soul undergoes a change during an ascension to apostlehood, as Void said something like " your thoughts will be filled with evil " so in an essence, their soul is changed and warped as much as from the ritual as from the evil emotions that led them to reject their humanity.


Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Aazealh on July 06, 2016, 12:58:35 PM
God hand members can see the future and as such are probably aware of most of the things going on in the world.

The God Hand is guided by a higher authority, with higher knowledge, capabilities and goals. Each member's own exact attributes and powers are unknown to us.

Void said something like " your thoughts will be filled with evil "

It's Conrad who says "A fissure will open in your heart into which evil will surge."
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Nothingwillbewong on July 06, 2016, 04:52:28 PM
It's amazing how close Miura keeps his cards to his chest, we still don't know anything about the God Hand. I can't even keep a secret for a week
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: RaffoBaffo on July 06, 2016, 04:53:45 PM
God hand members can see the future
Maybe Void, but the rest of the GH?
I don't think so.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: TricksieThiefsie on July 06, 2016, 05:02:26 PM
When Ged mentioned that Falcon of Light aka Griffith "devastated the spirit wood", Guts' reaction seemed quite out of character.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Walter on July 06, 2016, 05:05:34 PM
God hand members can see the future

Slan says otherwise at the end of the Eclipse. They can foresee some things, but not all. They probably are exposed to a vast amount of knowledge as a result of being able to tap into the collective consciousness of mankind, thus they have a deep understanding of things. But “see the future” in the way that you mean here just isn't the case.

I actually really appreciate the specific place Miura has carved for the God Hand — extremely powerful, but not omnipotent; extremely knowledgable, but not omniscient. More powerful than almost anything, but at the end of they day, they aren't gods.

When Ged mentioned that Falcon of Light aka Griffith "devastated the spirit wood", Guts' reaction seemed quite out of character.

Not sure what you mean. Any mention of Griffith tends to get a rise out of Guts. Connecting his personal rival with this massive change in the world is also a big deal for him.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: TricksieThiefsie on July 06, 2016, 05:12:39 PM
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Not sure what you mean. Any mention of Griffith tends to get a rise out of Guts.

I don't know, he was as much surprised as Schierke, maybe even more. Last time he made such an expression was when he saw Griffith on Hill of Swords i think. All of this is even weirder when you see him few moments before - he is delighted that Casca might get healed (which is his main quest now). It was too sudden and too dramatic.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Walter on July 06, 2016, 05:15:37 PM
I don't know, he was as much surprised as Schierke, maybe even more. Last time he made such an expression was when he saw Griffith on Hill of Swords i think. All of this is even weirder when you see him few moments before - he is delighted that Casca might get healed (which is his main quest now). It was too sudden and too dramatic.

Based on both of these examples, it doesn't seem to me like you know Guts very well, or at least are forgetting dozens of examples of Guts being surprised. Examine his surprised reaction when he saw the flood in Enoch ("So this is magic!"), or his face after Skull Knight mentioned that it might be possible for Casca to be healed back in Vol 28.

Here, he smiled at the confirmation of the possibility SK had offered all that time ago. That's all. Was a simple, emotional reaction from Guts after his long journey. What's weird about that exactly...?
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: TricksieThiefsie on July 06, 2016, 05:18:33 PM
Based on both of these examples, it doesn't seem to me like you know Guts very well, or at least are forgetting dozens of examples of Guts being surprised. Examine his surprised reaction when he saw the flood in Enoch ("So this is magic!"), or his face after Skull Knight mentioned that it might be possible for Casca to be healed back in Vol 28.

Here, he smiled at the confirmation of the possibility SK had offered all that time ago. That's all. Was a simple, emotional reaction from Guts after his long journey. What's not to like...?

I am talking about his reaction after hearing about Griffith's attack. He wouldn't be THAT much surprised and concerned, especially when he is not a magic user. Even especially when his quest is to get Casca healed.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Aazealh on July 06, 2016, 05:33:18 PM
I am talking about his reaction after hearing about Griffith's attack. He wouldn't be THAT much surprised and concerned, especially when he is not a magic user. Even especially when his quest is to get Casca healed.

I don't see what the big deal is. Yes, Guts is surprised to hear that the big astral event they witnessed was Griffith's doing. That seems 100% normal to me, and I don't see why not being a magic user should change anything in that regard. Finally, the fact his priority is Casca doesn't mean he has completely forgotten about Griffith or has no interest in his whereabouts. That seems beyond obvious.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: TricksieThiefsie on July 06, 2016, 05:45:03 PM
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I don't see what the big deal is. Yes, Guts is surprised to hear that the big astral event they witnessed was Griffith's doing. That seems 100% normal to me, and I don't see why not being a magic user should change in that regard. Finally, the fact his priority is Casca doesn't mean he has completely forgotten about Griffith or has no interest in his whereabouts. That seems beyond obvious.

I always thought that Guts gave up on his revenge. He still hates Griffith, yes, but from what I understand he chose Casca over him. He felt the guilt of leaving her for chasing demons and now he has different priorities. It doesn't make sense for him to go for Griffith again just like that, because that would be the same mistake he did a long time ago. Let's assume that Casca is completely sane and able to fight - do we actually believe that he would take her on his revenge path just to do the same thing again?

Something will happen in Elfhelm and that will decide why and how Guts is going for his revenge again.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Nothingwillbewong on July 06, 2016, 05:46:55 PM
I always thought that Guts gave up on his revenge. He still hates Griffith, yes, but from what I understand he chose Casca over him. He felt the guilt of leaving her for chasing demons and now he has different priorities. It doesn't make sense for him to go for Griffith again just like that, because that would be the same mistake he did a long time ago. Let's assume that Casca is completely sane and able to fight - do we actually believe that he would take her on his revenge path just to do the same thing again?

Something will happen in Elfhelm and that will decide why and how Guts is going for his revenge again.

Do you actually think that as soon as he stops pursuing revenge, Griffith means nothing to Guts? What?
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: TricksieThiefsie on July 06, 2016, 05:49:43 PM
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Do you actually think that as soon as he stops pursuing revenge, Griffith means nothing to Guts? What?

As I said, he still hates him and still wants him dead, but he won't go the same path he did years ago. The God Hand are extremely powerful and he won't get to them just by killing some demons. Some major plot change will happen soon.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Aazealh on July 06, 2016, 05:51:24 PM
I always thought that Guts gave up on his revenge. He still hates Griffith, yes, but from what I understand he chose Casca over him. He felt the guilt of leaving her for chasing demons and now he has different priorities. It doesn't make sense for him to go for Griffith again just like that, because that would be the same mistake he did a long time ago. Let's assume that Casca is completely sane and able to fight - do we actually believe that he would take her on his revenge path just to do the same thing again?

Didn't we have that conversation like two days ago? Yes, Guts has chosen to put Casca's well-being above everything else in his life. He took that decision in volume 17, and has been putting her first ever since. I don't see why that should prevent him from being surprised to hear that Griffith was the cause of a world-shaking event. But putting that aside, since that's not really your point. Yes, I believe that Guts will embark on a journey to find Griffith in the future, and that both Casca and his friends will accompany him. Like I told you the other day, it doesn't even have to strictly motivated by revenge. Other factors like the fate of their son as well as that of the world may come into play.

Something will happen in Elfhelm and that will decide why and how Guts is going for his revenge again.

You don't say. :schierke: This is beyond obvious and most of us have been taking that for granted for over a decade.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: TricksieThiefsie on July 06, 2016, 06:04:56 PM
To be honest this is my mistake for starting this discussion. We can't tell at all what is going to happen, we can't tell what Guts is going to hear from Ged, we can't tell what is going to happen with Casca. As much as I love reading theories, it's impossible to think about endgame of this manga now. It's all cool but at the same time very frustrating that Miura hasn't told anything major about The God Hand since worlds merging yet. We still don't know much about Griffith. Makes me worried that we may get a rushed ending because of such unbalanced lore share.

We have to wait rather than talk too much. I'm out till 345  :daiba:

Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Aazealh on July 06, 2016, 06:09:27 PM
To be honest this is my mistake for starting this discussion. We can't tell at all what is going to happen, we can't tell what Guts is going to hear from Ged, we can't tell what is going to happen with Casca. As much as I love reading theories, it's impossible to think about endgame of this manga now.

Well that depends. I mean I went pretty far out speculating about future events myself in this thread in the last 24 hours. It's just that everything you just said is basically what we've always expected. So while I think we all agree about it, there's not much else to say.

It's all cool but at the same time very frustrating that Miura hasn't told anything major about The God Hand since worlds merging yet. We still don't know much about Griffith. Makes me worried that we may get a rushed ending because of such unbalanced lore share.

Patience, it will come. And I'm sure it'll be glorious, too. :guts:
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Feeblecursedone on July 06, 2016, 09:44:17 PM
A sudden thought. What if Guts' next upgrade comes directly from the dwarves? Since they made the armour, it would seem logical for them to thinker with it. Maybe there are some on Skellig but in a further part of the island and the party will have to go parlay with them? Maybe they can enchant it with some magical runes? Both the armour and dragonslayer?

Yeah i said that already but I desperately want to meet them.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Aazealh on July 06, 2016, 09:58:37 PM
A sudden thought. What if Guts' next upgrade comes directly from the dwarves? Since they made the armour, it would seem logical for them to thinker with it. Maybe there are some on Skellig but in a further part of the island and the party will have to go parlay with them? Maybe they can enchant it with some magical runes? Both the armour and dragonslayer?

I think it's possible the actual dwarves who made the armor may be in Elfhelm, and they would obviously be in a position to help out with it. It's something we've already speculated about in the past. It remains to be seen what could be done with it though. I don't believe its negative properties will go away, and I also don't believe it'll become "more powerful", since it works by removing the body's natural limits. Those two aspects (benefits and dangers) are rolled up in a single package that can't be extricated. So whatever they do, it'd have to be subtle, akin to the talisman Flora carved on its chestplate.

Regarding the Dragon Slayer, I'm not too sure about runes, but they could always reforge it. It hasn't seen a refresh since volume 17 after all, and who else would be better fit to take care of Godot's masterpiece but legendary artisans?
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Feeblecursedone on July 06, 2016, 10:05:20 PM
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Regarding the Dragon Slayer, I'm not too sure about runes, but they could always reforge it. It hasn't seen a refresh since volume 17 after all, and who else would be better fit to take care of Godot's masterpiece but legendary artisans?

Lightning Dragonslayer + 15! Invokes a thunderclap on every fifth strike <.<

Imagine Dragonslayer getting a power of elements.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Aazealh on July 06, 2016, 10:33:30 PM
Lightning Dragonslayer + 15! Invokes a thunderclap on every fifth strike <.<

Imagine Dragonslayer getting a power of elements.

Haha, I know you like the Souls series, but nah. This isn't a video game. :iva:

This discussion already took place in volume 24 in a way, when Schierke offered Guts the magical axe. He of course refused it, and then she noticed that the Dragon Slayer already has some magical properties of its own, due to the thousands of evil spirits Guts has slain with it. That's how he could banish Slan from the Qliphoth and wound Ganishka in Vritannis. I think if anything it's more likely that these properties will be honed.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: jackson_hurley on July 06, 2016, 10:43:04 PM
who else would be better fit to take care of Godot's masterpiece but legendary artisans?

I know who!  :rickert:   :carcus:

But joke aside, it'd be nice to have a reforge of the sword by them or someone with the skills to do it.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Aazealh on July 10, 2016, 11:01:09 AM
I know who!  :rickert:   :carcus:

But joke aside, it'd be nice to have a reforge of the sword by them or someone with the skills to do it.

Well if it's not the dwarves then there's no doubt it'll be Rickert.

Anyway, I was thinking yesterday about how Flora encouraged Schierke to join Guts back in volume 24, and how it makes even more sense in retrospect, since she knew she was dying and that Guts was going to Skellig. Sending her pupil there sounds like the best possible thing she could have done.

I was also thinking about Schierke's place in this new village, and I got this idea that Schierke might end up feeling inadequate compared to Molda and the others. That could lead to her going for a walk by herself. Isidro would then find her or vice versa, and he could comfort and encourage her, since he can relate. Would tell her how she made him feel useless and remind her of all the great things she's done. I think that'd be a great way to push their relationship to the next level. :casca:

Also I expect elves in Elfhelm to compliment Puck on finding himself a bride, which should annoy Ivalera to no end. :iva:
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: jackson_hurley on July 10, 2016, 01:20:18 PM

Also I expect elves in Elfhelm to compliment Puck on finding himself a bride, which should annoy Ivalera to no end. :iva:

This should be very amusing if it happens, their interaction are always ridiculously funny.

I also like your thought about Schierke. it could be a very nice way to develop their relationship indeed. So much potential coming our way.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Feeblecursedone on July 10, 2016, 01:37:57 PM
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I was also thinking about Schierke's place in this new village, and I got this idea that Schierke might end up feeling inadequate compared to Molda and the others. That could lead to her going for a walk by herself. Isidro would then find her or vice versa, and he could comfort and encourage her, since he can relate. Would tell her how she made him feel useless and remind her of all the great things she's done. I think that'd be a great way to push their relationship to the next level.

Molda seems to be a playful type so i can see her teasing Schierke about Isidro.

Edit: I was also thinking about those old men trees. Could these be deceased magicians who's souls were put into trees in order to avoid being pulled into vortex of souls?
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Walter on July 10, 2016, 06:11:49 PM
Edit: I was also thinking about those old men trees. Could these be deceased magicians who's souls were put into trees in order to avoid being pulled into vortex of souls?

I thought so at first:
The old men trees reminded me of one of Flora's last lines to Schierke -- for great magic users, death isnt the end, but the beginning of a new kind of existence. I wonder if those entities inhabiting the trees were once old magic users who had their souls transferred to trees to prolong their "lives." Which of course, made me think of our favorite old man knight.  :badbone:

But in retrospect, I think they're just going to turn out to be trees that are "alive," and that's represented by depicting them as old men.

However, they wouldn't have gone to the Vortex necessarily. Flora says souls are divided according to their karma. Souls dominated by evil go to the Vortex, but not all. Flora, for example, isn't there.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Feeblecursedone on July 12, 2016, 06:00:51 PM
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Which of course, made me think of our favorite old man knight.

Hm. Maybe Flora binded Gaiserick's soul to the armour?
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Walter on July 12, 2016, 06:04:39 PM
Hm. Maybe Flora binded Gaiserick's soul to the armour?

Yes, that's long been a theory (since we learned he was hollow), and it's what I was hinting at.  :carcus:

Speculating further, while there was probably a soul transference involved with Gaiseric, it would be interesting if in addition to that, Skull Knight's armor has a special property that relates to his life force or soul -- extending it but at a cost. Not dissimilar to the "cost" of the Berserk's Armor.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Aazealh on July 12, 2016, 06:58:58 PM
Speculating further, while there was probably a soul transference involved with Gaiseric, it would be interesting if in addition to that, Skull Knight's armor has a special property that relates to his life force or soul -- extending it but at a cost. Not dissimilar to the "cost" of the Berserk's Armor.

I think the kind of existence it reduces him to is more than enough of a cost as it is. No senses, no feelings, no pleasure. He exists, but he doesn't live. It's kind of horrible in a way. Only a very driven man would resort to this kind of thing. As for the armor itself, it strikes me as being even more attuned to its wearer than the Berserk's armor is, what with its looks and all.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: pav327 on July 14, 2016, 12:30:43 AM
So, the kids clearly remember Puck and his mischief. Puck was out of the island for at least 3 years, and probably even more than that if Judeau got his elf dust from Puck (which happened even before he joined the Hawks, so it's more than 7 years ago for sure). This kind of gives us a very rough idea on how drastic the time flow difference is. I guess we can "afford" to skip 5-10 years in the outside world, without losing all the human characters.

I wonder if we'll ever get any clarification about those skulls and souls that were kept inside of the wickerman. Who were the sacrifices for that and who actually sacrificed them? They kind of skipped over the whole thing. The mages might have been offering themselves as the sacrifice in order to protect the island, but aren't the mages supposed to merge with the astral world after they die and not be tied up to some doll in the physical world? Was that some aborigenes that were living on the island before the mages and they eradicated them long time ago? Or did some kind of attack on the island already occured in the past (maybe connected with Gaiseric losing his body while defending it)? Any explanation on that Ganishka looking trees would be nice as well. Any explanation on anything would be nice, actually.

Seeing how Morda is bored and tired of the island, makes pretty much obvious that she will join the Guts party and they will leave the island. I'm pretty sure Guts won't stay on the island for too long, just because in that case all the human characters in the outside world will die out or will age too much. And if he will leave Casca alone on the island, that would make her kind of drop out of the story, which might feel a bit weird since she was the key story point the whole time. I presume her healing will be failed or interrupted (by apostile attack, by Griffith himself or it's just not possible), and Guts will be forced to go to Falconia and visit Griffith with his Helix Tree to complete her healing for some reason. Or she will regain her mind and after we get confirmation about Moonlight Child being her son, she would want to see Griffit and her child inside of him, she's naturally drawn to him after all. But I'm hesitant to believe that we'll see her healed any time soon. I guess we'll see, whatever happens should happen relatively soon.

Also, I was hoping that the Flowerstorm King is in fact a huge sworm of elves (flower petals being tiny elves flying around) with it's own collective overmind, and Puck was a part of that sworm at some point, which would technically make him a some kind of royalty. But it seems it's a bit more literal than I expected with that giant cherry blossom tree there. Looking forward to seeing how he actually looks. Hope we'll get the some kind of reveal at the end of the next chapter. It's a cute little girl, right?
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Walter on July 14, 2016, 12:51:25 AM
So, the kids clearly remember Puck and his mischief. Puck was out of the island for at least 3 years, and probably even more than that if Judeau got his elf dust from Puck (which happened even before he joined the Hawks, so it's more than 7 years ago for sure). This kind of gives us a very rough idea on how drastic the time flow difference is. I guess we can "afford" to skip 5-10 years in the outside world, without losing all the human characters.

5-10 years is in line with our initial guesses, just in terms of what would be realistic with the current world and characters. But what you're basing it on is a very rough concept. We don't know when Judeau got the dust. It could be as little as 5 years ago, or it could be greater than 10. We don't know his history that well, particularly in terms of where it fits on a timeline.

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I wonder if we'll ever get any clarification about those skulls and souls that were kept inside of the wickerman. Who were the sacrifices for that and who actually sacrificed them? They kind of skipped over the whole thing. The mages might have been offering themselves as the sacrifice in order to protect the island, but aren't the mages supposed to merge with the astral world after they die and not be tied up to some doll in the physical world? Was that some aborigenes that were living on the island before the mages and they eradicated them long time ago? Or did some kind of attack on the island already occured in the past (maybe connected with Gaiseric losing his body while defending it)? Any explanation on that Ganishka looking trees would be nice as well. Any explanation on anything would be nice, actually.

I feel like we're about an episode or two too premature to be demanding explanations of new concepts.

We've begun hypothesizing about these things already. It's a pretty safe bet that the island wasn't always in isolation. Morda mentions that the Wicker Man came from their storage, effectively gathering dust over the years. So there was probably a time where it was used in a time of war, and those souls were adversaries involved in a mass ritual. That's not far-fetched. As for the trees, they could be a number of things. They could actually be old men whose souls were transferred to trees to prolong their lives, or they could simply be trees that are "alive" and Miura chose to represent it with old man faces.

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Seeing how Morda is bored and tired of the island, makes pretty much obvious that she will join the Guts party and they will leave the island. I'm pretty sure Guts won't stay on the island for too long, just because in that case all the human characters in the outside world will die out or will age too much. And if he will leave Casca alone on the island, that would make her kind of drop out of the story, which might feel a bit weird since she was the key story point the whole time.

Was there a scenario you envisioned where Guts wouldn't leave the island? Furthermore, Guts has already promised himself that he would never leave her behind again. That alone lends credence to Casca coming with him, aside from every other reason she might (confronting Griffith for what he did, reuniting with their son, etc.).

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I presume her healing will be failed or interrupted (by apostile attack, by Griffith himself or it's just not possible), and Guts will be forced to go to Falconia and visit Griffith with his Helix Tree to complete her healing for some reason. Or she will regain her mind and after we get confirmation about Moonlight Child being her son, she would want to see Griffit and her child inside of him, she's naturally drawn to him after all. But I'm hesitant to believe that we'll see her healed any time soon. I guess we'll see, whatever happens should happen relatively soon.

Or she actually does get healed and joins Guts on a quest to save their son. What's wrong with that aside from your unexplained hesitation?

Because what you're describing above doesn't really add up. Guts departs without her, violating his promise in Vol 17, and in order to heal her mind confronts a literal kingdom of adversaries, (takes his revenge...?) then ... goes back overseas... with the missing ingredient?

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Looking forward to seeing how he actually looks. Hope we'll get the some kind of reveal at the end of the next chapter.

We're currently in the Chapter of Elf Island. Did you mean episode?

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It's a cute little girl, right?

Then it'd be the Queen of Flowerstorm.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Aazealh on July 14, 2016, 08:25:43 AM
So, the kids clearly remember Puck and his mischief. Puck was out of the island for at least 3 years, and probably even more than that if Judeau got his elf dust from Puck (which happened even before he joined the Hawks, so it's more than 7 years ago for sure). This kind of gives us a very rough idea on how drastic the time flow difference is. I guess we can "afford" to skip 5-10 years in the outside world, without losing all the human characters.

Puck was off the island for a while even as far as the islanders are concerned. It seems pretty obvious to me that he spent well over 10 years in the outside world (it could have been 30 years for all we know), but you need to keep in mind that it could have translated to 1 or 2 years inside the island. You also need to consider that the way the time differential works may not be linear, it could be prone to irregularities or accelerate and slow down at times, like an ebb and flow. With all that said, I could see a time difference of, say, 3 to 7 years, which is what I expected before we even learned about the island's properties. It's not that skipping 15 years ahead would lose us many characters (the Pontiff and Daiba are the only ones that come to mind), but it wouldn't necessarily be that interesting compared to seeing Rickert & Erika and Sonia & Mule as young adults.

I wonder if we'll ever get any clarification about those skulls and souls that were kept inside of the wickerman. Who were the sacrifices for that and who actually sacrificed them? They kind of skipped over the whole thing. The mages might have been offering themselves as the sacrifice in order to protect the island, but aren't the mages supposed to merge with the astral world after they die and not be tied up to some doll in the physical world? Was that some aborigenes that were living on the island before the mages and they eradicated them long time ago? Or did some kind of attack on the island already occured in the past (maybe connected with Gaiseric losing his body while defending it)?

I don't think the particular circumstances surrounding that one specific Wicker Man actually matter much as opposed to the implications of knowing this sort of practice was once common, in times long past. The one we saw doesn't have to have even originated on this island, and the scenarios you mention are neither likely nor interesting in my opinion. Meanwhile, the knowledge is what matters because it means not all magic users were always as focused on nature and elementals as Schierke and the Skellig folks are. I speculated around what that means earlier on in this thread, if you're interested. (http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=15022.msg241573#msg241573)

Seeing how Morda is bored and tired of the island, makes pretty much obvious that she will join the Guts party and they will leave the island. I'm pretty sure Guts won't stay on the island for too long, just because in that case all the human characters in the outside world will die out or will age too much. And if he will leave Casca alone on the island, that would make her kind of drop out of the story, which might feel a bit weird since she was the key story point the whole time. I presume her healing will be failed or interrupted (by apostile attack, by Griffith himself or it's just not possible), and Guts will be forced to go to Falconia and visit Griffith with his Helix Tree to complete her healing for some reason. Or she will regain her mind and after we get confirmation about Moonlight Child being her son, she would want to see Griffit and her child inside of him, she's naturally drawn to him after all. But I'm hesitant to believe that we'll see her healed any time soon. I guess we'll see, whatever happens should happen relatively soon.

I don't think your reasoning is very sound here. Like Walter said, has anyone ever believed that Guts would remain in Elfhelm forever? He just gets there and that's it, The End? Of course not. But it also makes no sense for Casca to not get cured at this point (or for her to stay behind on the island) when the promise that it could happen was made over 10 volumes ago. It seems relatively obvious to me that Casca will be cured and the group will undergo some internal challenges relating to each individual's goals and desires. Then a series of external events will provide an incentive for them to get out there and go to Falconia, among which I can think of: the desire for Casca and Guts save their son, the threat to the world posed by Griffith and the rest of the God Hand, the fact the island's time flow will cut them off from the rest of the world.

Also, I was hoping that the Flowerstorm King is in fact a huge sworm of elves (flower petals being tiny elves flying around) with it's own collective overmind, and Puck was a part of that sworm at some point, which would technically make him a some kind of royalty. But it seems it's a bit more literal than I expected with that giant cherry blossom tree there.

To be fair, envisioning the King of the Flower Storm as an elf hivemind was pretty far-fetched. That he would be related to a cherry tree was almost certain from the start (see that maelstrom of petals in episode 237) and it was made even clearer by the introduction of Chich (a new kind of elf, tied to a plant) in the little flashback we got in episodes 328 to 330.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: pav327 on July 15, 2016, 05:11:52 PM
Morda mentions that the Wicker Man came from their storage, effectively gathering dust over the years.

Yeah, Schierke said it's an old sorcery too.
What do you think about Gaiseric losing his body while defending the island?
I always thought he "died" during the fourth eclipse elsewhere, but now that I think of it, it's hard to imagine how Flora managed to preserve him from actually dying while carrying him to the island (except explaining it with magic). It would be more suitable for him to lose his body while he was near the Elf King, so he transferred Gaiseric's soul from his dying body into the Skull Knight's armor as a gratitude or as a part of some kind of agreement.
Could it be that fourth eclipse happened on the island?
Sorry if this is too unrelated to the topic.

As for the trees, they could be a number of things. They could actually be old men whose souls were transferred to trees to prolong their lives, or they could simply be trees that are "alive" and Miura chose to represent it with old man faces.

Trees indeed seem to bear some sort of a spiritual meaning - spirit trees, cherry blossom tree related to the Elf King, Helix tree (which I think might be a part of the Idea's "body"), bloody rituals performed around a tree, a priest's skin placed on a tree by heretics.
I like the idea of them transferring souls into the trees, since it would make Gaiseric-SK soul transfer not so completely new for them. Though, I thought mages should not be afraid of death because after dying they move on to the astral world with their souls unchanged. At least that what Flora said in her farewell if I remember correctly.

Was there a scenario you envisioned where Guts wouldn't leave the island?

I said "for long" there. But aren't Guts being torn between moving on with his life and avenging Griffith now that he's somewhat reachable? Guts definitely thought about it a numerous times. That "there is no guarantee that your wish will be her wish" phrase came up again not so long ago, when he thought about when will his journey end, after killing Sea God. He was affected by Godo's speech about broken sword and what's important in life. He was impressed with how Rickert coped with the loss of comrades and had the strength to move on. He actually planned to live at the dwarf's cave with Erica and Rickert after he rescued Casca. He initially decided to go to Puck's home in order to find a safe place for them to live, since dwarf's cave was destroyed. It seems like a possibility that he could consider to settle down on the island. Until, of course, the island will be attacked and he will be pulled into his anger again or something like that.
Of course I didn't mean that he will stay on the island and here we go - thank you for your support, see you in the next work by Miura-sensei. He has to leave at some point in order the story to progress.

Because what you're describing above doesn't really add up

I meant there Guts with Casca will have to go to Falconia to complete her healing. As I said, I don't think that Miura will exclude her from the story by leaving her on the island alone.

Or she actually does get healed and joins Guts on a quest to save their son. What's wrong with that aside from your unexplained hesitation?

I don't know, it's hard for me to imagine her being as she was before, since it was so long ago. Can't imagine how she will be communicating with the rest of the party and especially Farnese. It's probably just me.

We're currently in the Chapter of Elf Island. Did you mean episode?

Yup.




it could have translated to 1 or 2 years inside the island

It sure could, but they listed his little shenanigans in such details like it has happened just a couple weeks ago, not years. Sure, this might have been just for sake of a comedic moment, but still.

I speculated around what that means earlier on in this thread, if you're interested.

Oh, that's a very cool idea. We kind of already know that there's different approaches to magic use - kushans have their battle mages with their own ways. It's definitely a possibility that there was another "darker" type of magic. Which was exterminated by "good" mages or it just died out naturally after the apostles begun to appear.
It fits pretty well with my belief that Void was a magic user at some point. Crimson Beherit being a droplet of blood (and a regular one represents a tear) works well here too, if Void was the one who created the first Beherit to establish a connection with Idea.

Sorry for the offtopic, but what's your current thoughts on heretics we saw in Black Swordsman and Conviction arcs? Could they be an echo of another school of magic?

That he would be related to a cherry tree was almost certain from the start (see that maelstrom of petals in episode 237)

Well, exactly because of that maelstrom of petals I had that thought. And because Ivalera has somewhat flowery feel to her "clothes", so I made a connection. I wouldn't bet my money on him being the hive-mind, but I was kind of guessing that he is. Again, now it's clear that it's different from what I thought.
By the way, you made me skim through the episodes when Flowerstorm King was mentioned and we actually might have already had a glimpse of what Elf King will look like in chap episode 331, page 14. Though it's kind of hard to understand what there actually depicted, except human torso with hands up and wings that kind of make up a throne.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Aazealh on July 15, 2016, 09:59:48 PM
What do you think about Gaiseric losing his body while defending the island?

It's impossible to know right now, but personally I don't feel it.

I always thought he "died" during the fourth eclipse elsewhere

The fourth eclipse? 216 years before Griffith became Femto? So about 800 years after his capital city was destroyed? That makes no sense.

it's hard to imagine how Flora managed to preserve him from actually dying while carrying him to the island (except explaining it with magic)

As a reminder:
1) Magic was definitely involved in this process, no matter how you look at it.
2) While we assume there is a relation with Elfhelm, nothing in the manga says he became the Skull Knight on Skellig.

Could it be that fourth eclipse happened on the island?

Nah.

Helix tree (which I think might be a part of the Idea's "body")

Hahaha, that reminds me of this picture I did when the tree was first revealed. (http://aazealh.net/Divers/IoE-Tree.jpg)
That aside, I don't think the skinned priest hung on a tree has any relevance here.

I thought mages should not be afraid of death because after dying they move on to the astral world with their souls unchanged. At least that what Flora said in her farewell if I remember correctly.

Flora says nothing that specific. Anyway, we don't know what those trees are.

But aren't Guts being torn between moving on with his life and avenging Griffith now that he's somewhat reachable? [...] I meant there Guts with Casca will have to go to Falconia to complete her healing. As I said, I don't think that Miura will exclude her from the story by leaving her on the island alone. [...] I don't know, it's hard for me to imagine her being as she was before, since it was so long ago. Can't imagine how she will be communicating with the rest of the party and especially Farnese. It's probably just me.

Guts decided he would put Casca first in volume 17, and that meant putting his revenge aside. He has done just that, even though it wasn't easy for him to forgo his pursuit of Griffith. It's obvious to us all that said pursuit will resume eventually, and we also agree that leaving her in Elfhelm just isn't an option. But you've just recapped the events of the almost 20 volumes that this journey has spanned. Do you really think it will have been for naught? That they'll leave Elfhelm with Casca still in the same state? Just from a storytelling perspective, it would not make any sense. And when she does come back, she doesn't have to be just like before. In fact I doubt she'll be. Everything has changed, and she probably will be changed to some extent herself. But that's precisely what will make it interesting, to have her back, to have her be different and grow, and to see her interactions with the group. It'll be the most interesting thing to happen to Guts' group since Schierke joined it.

It sure could, but they listed his little shenanigans in such details like it has happened just a couple weeks ago, not years. Sure, this might have been just for sake of a comedic moment, but still.

Ged greets him with "long time no see", which implies it's at the very least been some months since they last saw each other. And they all act as if they haven't seen him in quite a while too.

Oh, that's a very cool idea. We kind of already know that there's different approaches to magic use - kushans have their battle mages with their own ways.

Kind of, although the Kushans were basically unrefined amateurs compared to these guys, and it pretty much all rested on Daiba's shoulders and Ganishka's power as an apostle.

Crimson Beherit being a droplet of blood (and a regular one represents a tear) works well here too, if Void was the one who created the first Beherit to establish a connection with Idea.

Who said a beherit represents a tear? Griffith sees his last tear crystallized as he falls towards the Abyss, and then he sees tons of beherits rising as droplets from the "sea" below him. It's not as if his one tear becomes a beherit. Beherits are entities tied to the Ideal World and to the Idea of Evil specifically.

Sorry for the offtopic, but what's your current thoughts on heretics we saw in Black Swordsman and Conviction arcs? Could they be an echo of another school of magic?

I don't think so. They are a counterpart to the Holy See and I see them as equally clueless.

And because Ivalera has somewhat flowery feel to her "clothes", so I made a connection.

Ah, but that's because her design is based around a cabbage, just like Puck's is based around a chestnut. :iva:

By the way, you made me skim through the episodes when Flowerstorm King was mentioned and we actually might have already had a glimpse of what Elf King will look like in chap episode 331, page 14. Though it's kind of hard to understand what there actually depicted, except human torso with hands up and wings that kind of make up a throne.

That's just a "mysterious shot", I don't believe it is representative of what the King of the Flower Storm will actually look like.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Feeblecursedone on July 16, 2016, 05:30:40 PM
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By the way, was the tree Rochine had chosen as her lair a spirit tree? Sounds possible to me. Way to go, Guts!

Even more possible considering misty valley was once full of elves. There are hints dropped that time in misty valley might flow differently than in outside world similar like on Skellig.

Speaking of Lost Children, has anyone wished to see Jill again? I've been thinking about some of these left-behind characters and I think it would be cool if we saw some of them en route to Falconia, given how the world is now populated by astral creatures and they're pushing the humans out.  I think she could be friends with Erica and the rest of girls there.

Its probably just nostalgia speaking though as her part of story was finished  :judo:
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Imperator Hanseatic on July 16, 2016, 06:27:35 PM
I think she could be friends with Erica and the rest of girls there.

Well, Erika is leaving with Rickert so..

Anyway, it would indeed be interesting to see Jill there in Falconia with Luka and co, after the probable time skip. Maybe one more person talking vaguely about their time with  :guts: will make them all connect the dots. Additionally, upon Guts' arrival it would be nice to have a brief reunion before shit hits the fan as a little proof to Guts (if he even needs it) that he's making a difference for people, giving them years of life when they'd have died years ago without him, but we can't see that far ahead yet.

Anyway, 345 soon according to the last info I got.

EDIT: Corrected names. (how embarrassing!)
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: IncantatioN on July 16, 2016, 07:33:12 PM
Erica

Erica
Luca

Hey guys, keep in mind that the official spellings are Luka and Erika, as confirmed in episode 338.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Rhombaad on July 16, 2016, 07:57:06 PM
Anyway, 345 soon according to the last info I got.

Yep! Should be out in less than a week. :guts:
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Imperator Hanseatic on July 16, 2016, 08:08:01 PM
Hey guys, keep in mind that the official spellings are Luka and Erika, as confirmed in episode 338.

Thanks for the reminder. Still having trouble from time to time after all those years.  :ganishka:
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Patrick on July 16, 2016, 09:00:25 PM
Yep! Should be out in less than a week. :guts:

That's right! I'm so excited.  :ubik:
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Aazealh on July 16, 2016, 09:33:07 PM
Even more possible considering misty valley was once full of elves. There are hints dropped that time in misty valley might flow differently than in outside world similar like on Skellig.

Well yeah, that's what I was referring to. Although time in misty valley flowed normally.

Speaking of Lost Children, has anyone wished to see Jill again?

It would be great, but I wouldn't count on it.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: RaffoBaffo on July 16, 2016, 10:03:24 PM
Anyway, 345 soon according to the last info I got.
Well, the relase date [22 July] of the 345 is written on the last page of the last Episode, so nothing new here  :troll:
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Imperator Hanseatic on July 16, 2016, 10:11:39 PM
Well, the relase date [22 July] of the 345 is written on the last page of the last Episode, so nothing new here  :troll:

Things change. Sometimes things get delayed or pushed ahead.  :schnoz:
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Walter on July 17, 2016, 10:32:33 AM
Things change. Sometimes things get delayed or pushed ahead.  :schnoz:

That's actually never happened, once we've been given a date. If the date is unknown, it'll just say "Tsuzuku," which is effectively "to be continued."
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Imperator Hanseatic on July 17, 2016, 06:10:40 PM
That's actually never happened, once we've been given a date. If the date is unknown, it'll just say "Tsuzuku," which is effectively "to be continued."
Just because it hasn't yet doesn't mean it can't. I like to keep my bases covered, just in case. Maybe it's unnecessary but it's just what I do. I'll refrain from bringing it up in the future unless something does actually change (however unlikely).
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: pav327 on July 18, 2016, 07:29:30 AM
The fourth eclipse? 216 years before Griffith became Femto? So about 800 years after his capital city was destroyed? That makes no sense.

I'm basing it on the fact that Zodd clearly remembered berserker armor and knew that SK wore it and suffered the consequences. Our best guess about Zodd's age as an apostle is 300 years, because that's when he started his quest. So, my guess is that it was the fourth eclipse when he met and fought SK and that when he personally saw what's the path down to the hell means. I don't think SK met him somewhere else, because we saw that he doesn't care about regular apostles and only targets God Hand in key points of the events.
Do you think Gaiseric "died" when the Capital fell? Or it wasn't tied to any specific event at all?

While we assume there is a relation with Elfhelm, nothing in the manga says he became the Skull Knight on Skellig.

Well, it's reasonable to assume that, no? Him knowing about the Elf King's ability to manipulate soul/mind and Elfhelm being the place og the top level magic knowledge. I assume, that's what happened with SK requires something this big and powerful. Would be strange if something even more powerfull will come out of the blue. And besides, SK felt kinda like an elf to Puck.
Also, SK somewhat connects with Peekaf in my head - treated by elves, had red eyes, lived through a time skip, lost pretty much everything, a cute.

Flora says nothing that specific

She said "My existential form will merely change. We can meet again in your dreams.". We know that human dreams are the part of the astral world and that's where spirits live. She wasn't talking about just memories about her, right?

Do you really think it will have been for naught?

This could be a good reason to resume his pursuit, don't you think? Or, again, her healing will be disrupted or incomplete and they will be forced to go to Falconia in order to finish it.
I think Guts needs a reason or a reminder, because if anything, he became even calmer and more detached from his Beast than he ever was since the Eclipse. And there is quite a big possibility that Flowerstorm King will do something with the Beast to tame it down.
If she will be healed and will want to go and take revenge than SK's words, about her having a different wish than Guts, would have no point. And SK always had a point. Just killing Griffith out of rage and take the child that fused with his shell (which would mean to kill or expel Femto from the shell) are not too different of a wishes. Though, it could be that it's Guts will be the who would want to settle down and move on, but Casca will demand actions to take her son back. Anyway, all I was saying is that I can't imagine to see completely healed Casca. Her being damaged or not completely restored would be okay for me. Again, it's just me.

Ged greets him with "long time no see"

He knows that it was years for Puck.

Who said a beherit represents a tear?

No one, It's my assumption. Tears are associated mainly with suffering and negative emotions. Beherits seems to be a concentration of negative emotions and they release it upon full activation and this is what summons God Hand. SK kind of explained that suffering attracts God Hand when he warned Guts about the pseudo eclipse at st.Albion. And the Idea of Evil is surrounded by negative emotions, so I think Griffith on his way to the abyss had seen condensed suffering forming into Beherits.
With the new anime show I realised that Betchi is actually grey/blueish and not olive color. It was grey/blueish in PS2 game, in 1998 year's calendar and in the official illustration book (last two were made directly by Miura, so it couldn't be a mistake) as well. It appeared to be an olive color in the 97's anime and yellowish in the colored manga page just because the color was affected by yellow/orange light from a fire nearby. Yellow and blue create green/olive kind of color. I don't think I saw any other Beherit in color (at least not from Miura), except Betchi and Crimson Beherit, so I assume that all regular Beherits are grey/blueish, which may be the color of a tears.
Blood is associated with suffering and harm too, among the other things. So, Beherits being blood and tears seems reasonable to me. That's also why they're never look happy.

They are a counterpart to the Holy See and I see them as equally clueless.

Well, Holy See had the prophecy about the Hawk of Darkness, so they know (or rather knew) at least something that's true. They lost it over the years and became completely different thing now, so I though the same could be with the heretics.

Anyway, thank you for your thoughts! I won't go on, because I think I'm drifting off towards speculations instead of the episode discussion.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Aazealh on July 18, 2016, 09:42:24 AM
I'm basing it on the fact that Zodd clearly remembered berserker armor and knew that SK wore it and suffered the consequences. Our best guess about Zodd's age as an apostle is 300 years, because that's when he started his quest. So, my guess is that it was the fourth eclipse when he met and fought SK and that when he personally saw what's the path down to the hell means. I don't think SK met him somewhere else, because we saw that he doesn't care about regular apostles and only targets God Hand in key points of the events.

I'm not sure I'd call Zodd's roaming and killing in search of the strongest opponents a quest. But anyway, what you're proposing is that Zodd met a still human Gaiseric, 800 years after his reign had ended, while Zodd had already been an apostle for close to a hundred years. I find that unlikely. Wouldn't it rather make more sense that the Skull Knight, during his long life, met Zodd before he was an apostle? Because the simplest explanation is that Zodd learned about the Berserk's armor some other way than by seeing Gaiseric die in front of him. Not to mention that we don't even know whether Zodd had prior knowledge of the Berserk's armor, as opposed to just seeing Guts wearing a strange magical armor with a skull helmet and putting two and two together.

Do you think Gaiseric "died" when the Capital fell?

I think he "died" around that time, yes. Not 800 years later.

Well, it's reasonable to assume that, no? Him knowing about the Elf King's ability to manipulate soul/mind and Elfhelm being the place og the top level magic knowledge. I assume, that's what happened with SK requires something this big and powerful. Would be strange if something even more powerfull will come out of the blue. And besides, SK felt kinda like an elf to Puck.

We know he's connected to elves, so yes, it's reasonable to assume. It's a strong possibility. But that doesn't mean there aren't other possibilities. Flora could have tended to him with the help of elves in some other place way back then. It doesn't have to have been the King of the Flower Storm who did it either.

Also, SK somewhat connects with Peekaf in my head - treated by elves, had red eyes, lived through a time skip, lost pretty much everything, a cute.

Uh, red eyes? Where did you get that? His eyes were normal as far as we know. And in his current state, he didn't necessarily have to experience a "time skip". He could have just been alive for a thousand years. That's actually hinted at by his very name (the kanji for "skull" is more specifically "weathered skull"). I find that Pikaf connexion extremely far-fetched.

She said "My existential form will merely change. We can meet again in your dreams.". We know that human dreams are the part of the astral world and that's where spirits live. She wasn't talking about just memories about her, right?

I know what Flora said. I quote you: "mages should not be afraid of death because after dying they move on to the astral world with their souls unchanged". What Flora is capable of may not apply to all magic users. The extent to which they are "changed" is also unknown.

This could be a good reason to resume his pursuit, don't you think? Or, again, her healing will be disrupted or incomplete and they will be forced to go to Falconia in order to finish it.
I think Guts needs a reason or a reminder, because if anything, he became even calmer and more detached from his Beast than he ever was since the Eclipse. And there is quite a big possibility that Flowerstorm King will do something with the Beast to tame it down.
If she will be healed and will want to go and take revenge than SK's words, about her having a different wish than Guts, would have no point. And SK always had a point. Just killing Griffith out of rage and take the child that fused with his shell (which would mean to kill or expel Femto from the shell) are not too different of a wishes. Though, it could be that it's Guts will be the who would want to settle down and move on, but Casca will demand actions to take her son back. Anyway, all I was saying is that I can't imagine to see completely healed Casca. Her being damaged or not completely restored would be okay for me. Again, it's just me.

The Skull Knight's words could be interpreted in many different ways. Like for example that she may not even want to be healed, or to go on living. Or it could be something as simple as Guts wanting to kill Griffith and Casca not wanting to because of the boy. They could then head to Falconia together but with very diverging goals and an uncertain future. Or Guts might want to immediately resume their romantic relationship while Casca will not be ready for it. The possibilities are numerous. And the Skull Knight spoke in uncertain terms too, he didn't say "she will not want what you want".

Basically your whole argument here rests on your inability to make sense of that line. But would the impossibility of healing Casca in the first place (because of a missing component or whatever) make sense of it? Nope. It'd just avoid the problem entirely, which is the least likely outcome even if we follow your own logic.

He knows that it was years for Puck.

I don't think it works like that.

No one, It's my assumption. Tears are associated mainly with suffering and negative emotions. Beherits seems to be a concentration of negative emotions and they release it upon full activation and this is what summons God Hand.

Alright but like I told you, we see beherits rising from the Abyss in volume 13 and they're not made from tears. That's pretty final as far as I'm concerned.

With the new anime show I realised that Betchi is actually grey/blueish and not olive color. It was grey/blueish in PS2 game, in 1997 year's calendar and in the official illustration book (last two were made directly by Miura, so it couldn't be a mistake) as well.

The beherit Guts carries is green. The only canon source is the manga and Miura's color illustrations, and Miura has been consistently depicting it green for 20 years. I don't know what you're referring to here exactly, but Guts' beherit is green.

I don't think I saw any other Beherit in color (at least not from Miura), except Betchi and Crimson Beherit, so I assume that all regular Beherits are grey/blueish, which may be the color of a tears.

Beherits can be many colors. Balzac and Niko's beherit, for example, was blue.

Well, Holy See had the prophecy about the Hawk of Darkness, so they know (or rather knew) at least something that's true. They lost it over the years and became completely different thing now, so I though the same could be with the heretics.

They have a fragmented version of it, yes. Schierke explains during the events in Enoch that parts of the Holy See's doctrine are basically variations of truths about the world that a magic user understands. But would you say that the Holy See is the remnant of a school of magic? I wouldn't, I think it's not quite the case. And the same goes for the heretics.

Anyway, thank you for your thoughts! I won't go on, because I think I'm drifting off towards speculations instead of the chapter discussion.

You're welcome, but Berserk's individual issues are called episodes, not chapters. "Chapter" refers to larger batches of episodes, like the Chapter of the Lost Children. You can find a detailed list here. (http://skullknight.net/manga/)
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Henry Spencer on July 18, 2016, 10:54:52 AM
Was thinking that the upcoming episodes might just give some back story into Puck but also Flora (maybe Schierke was originally from here and we see what happened to her parents and why Flora took her away from that island?) and the origins of the Berserker Armour perhaps? Maybe they will be able to advise Guts and Schierke how to hone the Berserker Armour properly without harming any of the rest of them in the process next time it's used? Or potentially new weapons and tools for the team to use on their next adventures? About time some of them got another upgrade, surely?

Was thinking what the fuck is Magnifico and Roderick going to do here anyway?
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Aazealh on July 18, 2016, 11:12:53 AM
Was thinking that the upcoming episodes might just give some back story into Puck but also Flora (maybe Schierke was originally from here and we see what happened to her parents and why Flora took her away from that island?) and the origins of the Berserker Armour perhaps? Maybe they will be able to advise Guts and Schierke how to hone the Berserker Armour properly without harming any of the rest of them in the process next time it's used? Or potentially new weapons and tools for the team to use on their next adventures?

Yeah I've talked about all of that earlier in the thread.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Henry Spencer on July 18, 2016, 07:19:15 PM
Ah, must have missed it, nevermind then.
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Arvin on July 21, 2016, 08:06:50 AM
Have been out of the loop for a while, but was reading the thread and re-reading some episodes in the last two days.
Was pretty excited about this episode as I was reading it, and now psyched about the next one which should be coming out soon. Indeed some exciting times to be a Berserk fan. I feel I'm very late to the party, there was some interesting discussion and speculation I wished to reply to, but for now I will settle with what concerns Morda. I think she can be a great addition.

Maybe she develops a thing for Serpico, or you know, Guts scores another fangirl.

Yeah, that's also what I thought and would hope for if Morda is to join the party. Guts has more than enough "fangirls" as it stands right now. Morda also reminds me of old Farnese in the sense that she seems to have some rather deviant tendencies and maybe one could even say that Skellig, as wonderful as it looks, currently feels like Morda's birdcage as was the Vandimion mansion once to young Farnese.

Another funny thing about entertaining such a pairing is how uneasy Serpico seems to feel about the magic subject sometimes (or at least when it concerns Farnese's practice), classic example right in this episode, the face he makes after Farnese enthusiastically hops on his observation about the scholar or academic nature of the village. From Serpico's stance Morda may seem like a bit of a scary girl: a witch (and probably the epitome of witch imagery thus far), owning a bit of an assertive attitude (also a trait that reminds of old Farnese) and possibly some slight alignment to the fire element... or wind, if broomstick gliding/flying is a magic exercise that heavily involves the use of Sylphs, which should be plentiful in the island. So possibly both, which could make her look terrifying given Serpico's fear of fire, but also symphatizing looking at the elemental affinities.

Continuing on that tangent, Morda does seem talented, given the ease she not only glides in her broomstick but how she's able to maneuver upside down effortlessly, whereas the other apprentices have to climb a tree to get started and some even lose balance. I'm curious to see how Schierke fares at the broomstick too given the chance, whether she's able to get it going without much trouble or if she struggles. For her sake I hope she's able to get on smoothly, or we know someone who will have a field day otherwise haha.  :isidro:

Now, now, I don't think we should dismiss Molda entirely. I mean, sure Schierke has more worldly experience, has been in more terrifying situations, has had to use her magic to fight and kill, has been teaching another the ways of magic, and so on. But Molda's awesome power has our favorite witch beat in one particular area.

She can defy even the unstoppable force of gravity to keep her hat on!

(http://i.imgur.com/Slsq7Fu.png)

Can Schierke keep her hat on? No! It takes only a slight breeze, a pesky elf (http://i.imgur.com/MJaNXBd.png), or an insolent monkey (http://i.imgur.com/HmoN4j1.png) for her headware to start rolling away.

Anyway, if Molda is to join the crew, I wonder what effect that would have on Farnese, if any? I've always thought that her training to be a witch was so that she would continue to have a purpose in the team dynamic (and narrative) once Casca no longer required her babying, and learning magic has indeed been helping the girl feel better about herself. But would the presence of another witch (or two, or three) wreck her confidence again since she would possibly feel even more redundant than ever before? Farnese already has enough mixed feelings wherever Guts and Casca are concerned.

I can understand the concern here. But I'd probably trust Miura on that. I don't think Morda's addition would change much the path of progress Farnese has been and is still undergoing right now (as well as the presence of all witches and apprentices in the island). Like her reaction to Serpico's comments, she seemed to have embraced the place. And as far as Morda joining the party is concerned, I could actually see her introduction contributing further to Farnese's progress. Morda seems to be a quite contrasting character when put together with Schierke, so her presence could add a slightly different but complementing approach to her learning of magic. In addition, it could be just me, but as I was saying earlier, in some senses Morda reminds me abit the Farnese of old. The assertive, overconfident Farnese. I think regaining some of that confidence back could do her good, and maybe looking at Morda and having her presence influence her a bit could have a positive effect on her in that regard. Only this time said confidence would be much better founded and backed by something much more substantial (her magic knowledge) while also tempered by all the character lessons she already went through.

That said, it could be a very tough ordeal for Farnese.  Having to conciliate different approaches and advices could leave her even more confused in her lessons. But if she's able to take the best out of Schierke's methodic and conservative teachings, as well as some of Morda's own unique qualities that can help her grow, I think the result could be quite amazing.

It could also be a wealth of interesting and potentially humorous scenes/interactions. I could envision a scene with Schierke giving Farnese her daily lesson at some corner in the fields, telling her to mentalize things like this and that, only for some figure to suddenly butt in, popping again from some upside down diagonal angle and floating with her broomstick, seemingly out of nowhere and giving both a good scare, while saying "Oh, but you can also try in such and such". :slan: By the end of it, it would leave a very confused Farnese torn between one way or another.  :farnese:

Haha, anyway, all more speculation about how things could go, but the potential is there I believe. I hope Morda does indeed join for the rest of the journey and I can't wait to see more of her personality in the coming episodes. And again, here's hoping Serpico may have finally found his proper mistress.  :serpico:
Title: Re: Episode 344
Post by: Cyrus Jong on July 23, 2016, 06:04:03 AM
I can understand the concern here. But I'd probably trust Miura on that. I don't think Morda's addition would change much the path of progress Farnese has been and is still undergoing right now (as well as the presence of all witches and apprentices in the island). Like her reaction to Serpico's comments, she seemed to have embraced the place. And as far as Morda joining the party is concerned, I could actually see her introduction contributing further to Farnese's progress. Morda seems to be a quite contrasting character when put together with Schierke, so her presence could add a slightly different but complementing approach to her learning of magic. In addition, it could be just me, but as I was saying earlier, in some senses Morda reminds me abit the Farnese of old. The assertive, overconfident Farnese. I think regaining some of that confidence back could do her good, and maybe looking at Morda and having her presence influence her a bit could have a positive effect on her in that regard. Only this time said confidence would be much better founded and backed by something much more substantial (her magic knowledge) while also tempered by all the character lessons she already went through.

That said, it could be a very tough ordeal for Farnese.  Having to conciliate different approaches and advices could leave her even more confused in her lessons. But if she's able to take the best out of Schierke's methodic and conservative teachings, as well as some of Morda's own unique qualities that can help her grow, I think the result could be quite amazing.

It could also be a wealth of interesting and potentially humorous scenes/interactions. I could envision a scene with Schierke giving Farnese her daily lesson at some corner in the fields, telling her to mentalize things like this and that, only for some figure to suddenly butt in, popping again from some upside down diagonal angle and floating with her broomstick, seemingly out of nowhere and giving both a good scare, while saying "Oh, but you can also try in such and such". :slan: By the end of it, it would leave a very confused Farnese torn between one way or another.  :farnese:

Haha, anyway, all more speculation about how things could go, but the potential is there I believe. I hope Morda does indeed join for the rest of the journey and I can't wait to see more of her personality in the coming episodes. And again, here's hoping Serpico may have finally found his proper mistress.  :serpico:
Oh, I have full confidence that whatever Miura will do concerning Molda's place in the story and Farnese's continuing development (and...everything else for that matter), it will be interesting. It's just...in a lot of these kind of stories involving team dynamics, there's oftentimes at least one character who doesn't seem like they have anything to contribute, and more often than not, it's because the writer fails to actually think of something for them to do. Farnese was a rare instance where not only was this intentionally invoked, but it was explored. Way back in Volume 23, the poor girl couldn't do anything right. She couldn't fight, hunt, cook, wash clothes, and she even botched her job watching over Casca for one night. But realizing how useless she was did show growth in her character, and ever since then, she's been getting progressively better and more useful to the group, with every improvement always eliciting some happiness and even a surge of confidence. But those feelings of insecurity are still there, and they make themselves known whenever Farnese feels she can't quite do enough, such as be the person who can soothe Guts' pain as we saw during the gang's time on the Sea Horse. So I can't help but wonder what awaits her, because the dynamics in Guts' group are about to make a tremendous shift. There could be good things, and there could be bad, and the possibilities are just...heh, I don't even know where to begin.

Don't know if I would say Molda is comparable to the Farnese of old though. Farnese was mentally volatile, always lashing out and abusing her authority to hide her own feelings of inadequacy while using religious zeal to justify it. So far, Molda just comes across as a bratty teenager. She's brash, rebellious, immature and full of herself, but pretty normal all things considered. I do hope Farnese and Molda get along, if they do indeed interact with one another.