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Berserk => Current Episodes => Topic started by: RaffoBaffo on August 23, 2016, 02:41:47 PM

Title: Episode 346
Post by: RaffoBaffo on August 23, 2016, 02:41:47 PM
Title: Elfhelm
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: jackson_hurley on August 23, 2016, 03:10:06 PM
Holy shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit! That looks awesome. That's all I'll say for the moment. Thx dude
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Mangetsu on August 23, 2016, 03:12:45 PM
Wow! so Danan actually transformed into an elf ? Totally did not expect that. Seeing all those creatures reminds me a lot of the Fantasia episode... Can't wait to see more!
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Aazealh on August 23, 2016, 03:29:59 PM
Wow! so Danan actually transformed into an elf ? Totally did not expect that. Seeing all those creatures reminds me a lot of the Fantasia episode... Can't wait to see more!

Yes, she seems to be like Isma, able to change from one form to the other. Lots of interesting things to see, even in just those few panels. Ivalera among her kind (she looks ill at ease), different types of elves (those big ones who take Farnese and Casca's hand), new types of benevolent, civilized astral creatures in the form of Centaurs and Fauns (to go with the Merrows), Puck's... siblings?! And of course Puck getting arrested by the guards :ganishka:, while playing the Elf King's part no less. And lastly, yeah, Danan's true form... Not quite sure what it is exactly (A kind of Nymph? Or is she really the Queen of the Flower Storm?!), but it certainly fired up my curiosity. :guts:
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Delta Phi on August 23, 2016, 03:41:08 PM
That shot of Danan is really exciting. It's so great to see so many elves! "The promised time has come"
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: hearTes on August 23, 2016, 03:42:25 PM
2nd page, 1st panel, Are those elves? they look rather big.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Aazealh on August 23, 2016, 03:49:41 PM
2nd page, 1st panel, Are those elves? they look rather big.

They seem to be a new kind of elf, like I said in my previous post. But of course, we won't know for sure before we can read the full episode. We can see a lot of different creatures in those few panels...

But really, I think the big deal here is whether or not Danan is the Queen of the Flower Storm. And to be clear, I don't mean the wife of the King, I mean she's the King. He's a she (which is possible thanks to the Japanese language's general disregard for gender). In episode 345, both Ged and Puck tell Guts there's no need to hurry and so on, and it'd make sense if that was because the one he sought was already there... And then there are the flower petals covering her body and floating in the air...

On a side note, Puck seems to be the eldest among his brothers. He's one, then there's two, three, four, five (the spikes on their heads).
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Walter on August 23, 2016, 04:05:41 PM
A smorgasbord of elves! We won't know the names of Miura's version of these creatures for some time (maybe sooner?), but it looks like fauns, centaurs, ents, some other forest creatures, and on and on, wow! Also, seems that Puck is the eldest of his brothers, if those bumps on the heads are of any significance. Hehe  :puck: The weirdest creatures on there are those towering, shadowy figures... Not sure what to call them.

So, we're already wrapped up with Guts and the gurus, and it's on to the King/Queen of the Elves now. If this episode doesn't already reveal them, then it seems it'll be coming next. Pretty exciting times!

But really, I think the big deal here is whether or not Danan is the Queen of the Flower Storm. And to be clear, I don't mean the wife of the King, I mean she's the King. He's a she (which is possible thanks to the Japanese language's general disregard for gender). In episode 345, both Ged and Puck tell Guts there's no need to hurry and so on, and it'd make sense if that was because the one he sought was already there...

It could very well be. But perhaps it's all the years of considering a king that has me feeling reluctant about that idea right now. There's certainly some implied significance to that big shot of her. Likely the last page.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Aazealh on August 23, 2016, 04:21:08 PM
It could very well be. But perhaps it's all the years of considering a king that has me feeling reluctant about that idea right now. There's certainly some implied significance to that big shot of her. Likely the last page.

I can understand that reluctance, since it's also not what I would have intuitively gone for. It feels somewhat odd for the leader of the elves to be working as a helper for humans on the side (and parading as a witch, too), although I'm sure there'll be an explanation for that in any case. But yeah, that shot of her is clearly meant to bear a strong significance, so the possibility immediately jumped at me, and hasn't left since. Maybe she's just a very important person instead (like a cohort?), or the shot is dramatized because the moment is big ("Welcome to Elfhelm")... But that just doesn't feel as likely. Either way I really can't wait to find out.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: MrFlibble on August 23, 2016, 05:10:16 PM
I wish Pucks Elfhelm conquest arc was more fleshed out, I wasn't expecting him to be taken out by Elf guards before he could confront the Elf King.

I don't see any reason why in a societey where elves and witches co exist peacefully that an elf needs to disguise itself as a human, maybe there's an interesting reason for this.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Aazealh on August 23, 2016, 05:31:20 PM
I wish Pucks Elfhelm conquest arc was more fleshed out, I wasn't expecting him to be taken out by Elf guards before he could confront the Elf King.

It's hard to tell in that panel, but puella suggested he was trying to sit on the throne. Just like Griffith: he was so close, yet so far. :puck:
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Cyrus Jong on August 23, 2016, 05:49:07 PM
One episode, and we're introduced to a whole menagerie of new spiritual critters. Fauns, centaurs, new kinds of elves, and...other things. It's gonna' be crazy!

I wish Pucks Elfhelm conquest arc was more fleshed out, I wasn't expecting him to be taken out by Elf guards before he could confront the Elf King.
Fear not! Puck may not be able to get the throne through conventional means, but he still has Betchi. With a proper sacrifice of enough cheese, he will surely be given a body that will allow him to achieve his dream to rule Elfhelm as king!

I don't see any reason why in a societey where elves and witches co exist peacefully that an elf needs to disguise itself as a human, maybe there's an interesting reason for this.
If I would hazard a guess (emphasis on guess), whatever Danan's position in Elfhelm is (if she's not the King, it's likely a high-ranking one), she wanted to see the island's new guests for herself before meeting them proper. So she posed as a servant for the gurus, which would allow her to observe Guts and company quietly while their attention was diverted away from her. After all, nobody really pays heed to a servant, and it always worth a good laugh when they realize who you were all along :slan:. We'll see on Friday. Or...sooner, depending on when/if leaks show up.

Speaking of which...is it Friday yet? No? Dang.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: N7Paladin on August 23, 2016, 06:32:20 PM
So Danan might be Queen of the Flower Storm?  :isidro: Even with what Aaz said about the Japanese language and genders, that's still a curve ball to me.

My hype for 346 is real.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: DANGERDOOOOM on August 23, 2016, 07:04:40 PM
Looks like Skellig isn't just an island with elves, but shares a host of satyrs, centaurs and possibly other mythological creatures as well. Not a surprise, but interesting.

Also looks as if Puck has decided to take the role as the Elf King himself in one of the panels, but gets rejected instantly :ganishka:
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Walter on August 23, 2016, 07:06:30 PM
Looks like Skellig isn't just an island with elves, but shares a host of satyrs, centaurs and possibly other mythological creatures as well. Not a surprise, but interesting.

Definitely not a surprise, because Elves are a category of creatures in Berserk, within which are many. For example, Puck isn't just an elf, he's of the Piskies, wind sprites.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: ApostleBob on August 23, 2016, 07:12:31 PM
Looks like Miura might be throwing us a Yoda curve ball from Empire Strikes Back. 'Oh sure, I'll take you to Yoda, just have dinner with me first while I see what type of person you are.'  It's not suprising, considering Miura's admiration for Star Wars.

Ged even hinted at this in the first meeting when he cautioned Guts to not be impatient, that it would reflect poorly to the King.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: DANGERDOOOOM on August 23, 2016, 07:20:40 PM
I think the big deal here is whether or not Danan is the Queen of the Flower Storm. And to be clear, I don't mean the wife of the King, I mean she's the King.

I have my doubts that Danan is the King. Only because of one part in episode 345, either page 4 or 5 (online scans might have different page counts) Danan greets Puck, welcoming him back from his long return off island. Pucks response is pretty much just, "Yep".

If she was the King, I would think Puck's response to her would have a lot more weight and schock to it.

Unless he's unfamiliar of Danan being able to transform.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Cyrus Jong on August 23, 2016, 07:51:37 PM
I have my doubts that Danan is the King. Only because of one part in episode 345, either page 4 or 5 (online scans might have different page counts) Danan greets Puck, welcoming him back from his long return off island. Pucks response is pretty much just, "Yep".

If she was the King, I would think Puck's response to her would have a lot more weight and schock to it.

Unless he's unfamiliar of Danan being able to transform.

I dunno, Puck demonstrated being rather blas on matters concerning the King of the Flower Storm. That or just thick. Either way, if she is the King, I think a casual greeting is the kind of thing Puck would do.

Quote from: Volume 28
Farnese: Casca might be able to...?

Isidro: For real?!

Schierke: Yes. [The King of the Flower Storm] is said in legend to be a great elf king. I think there is little doubt.

Puck: Legend...

Isidro: That king where you're from's amazing!

Ivalera: Why'dya keep quiet?! A show-off like you?!

Puck: ...

Isidro and Ivalera: [whispering] He must notta known...
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Griffith on August 23, 2016, 08:14:36 PM
Looks like Miura might be throwing us a Yoda curve ball

I like the way you think. Still, I'm guessing there's more curveballs to come where the King (or Queen) of the Flower Storm is concerned, but Danaan seems like a pretty big ruse when you consider all the other characters that would have been playing part of it (unless it's less a ruse than some custom). Of course, maybe the, uh, Monarch... of the Flower Storm is a more abstract entity or force of nature (Mother Nature, hey) that communicates through a medium.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Walter on August 23, 2016, 08:21:42 PM
Looks like Miura might be throwing us a Yoda curve ball from Empire Strikes Back. 'Oh sure, I'll take you to Yoda, just have dinner with me first while I see what type of person you are.'  It's not suprising, considering Miura's admiration for Star Wars.

I don't think the parallel is perfect, but I know what you mean. Anyway, it's a concept that predates the '80s. It always felt to me like Lucas was cribbing from Homer's writings of Greek gods disguising themselves as humans before revealing themselves to the worthy.

I'm still not sold on Danan being the Elf King Ruler! But ... it sure is beginning to feel like a crumbling doubt :farnese:

I have my doubts that Danan is the King.

Even if she turns out to be the ruler, she wouldn't be a "king."
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Aazealh on August 23, 2016, 08:33:11 PM
Looks like Miura might be throwing us a Yoda curve ball from Empire Strikes Back. 'Oh sure, I'll take you to Yoda, just have dinner with me first while I see what type of person you are.'  It's not suprising, considering Miura's admiration for Star Wars.

The tradition for these kinds of things goes back centuries before Star Wars. Especially in Asia.

Pucks response is pretty much just, "Yep".

No, he says a traditional Japanese sentence for when you get home.

If she was the King, I would think Puck's response to her would have a lot more weight and schock to it.

When has Puck shown deference to anyone, ever?
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Kaladin on August 23, 2016, 09:23:09 PM
oh my god oh my god this is too cool, sooooooo many elves!!!!!  :ubik:. really cool twist with danan, makes me wonder if we'll see more creatures that can turn into humans in the future! cannot wait to see the the doublespread(s) we get of elfhelm itself. those big elves that are next to casca and farnese look so cool especially the male, awesome mask. where are the dwarves though :judo: i need to see them now, i wonder if they'll look like the one he drew for chika's manga.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Feeblecursedone on August 23, 2016, 09:23:29 PM
Shit, Centaurs, Fauns/Satyrs, big traditional fantasy elves? That's an army right there. Equip the centaurs with bows/arrows and you'll have unstoppable cavalry.

Not sure what to think about Danan.

Quote
where are the dwarves though :judo: i need to see them now, i wonder if they'll look like the one he drew for chika's manga.

Yeah me too. I hope we'll get some history on berserker armour and why it was built for humans ( plus why the design and the od )
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: DANGERDOOOOM on August 23, 2016, 09:28:05 PM
But haven't the past pronouns of the King always been described as 'he'? I thought the Skull Knight referred to the Elf King as male at one point. Wish I could look up these points more thoroughly, but I'm in the process of moving with all my books packed away.

No, he says a traditional Japanese sentence for when you get home.

Ah, well I assume the Japanese sentence must have somewhat of the same tone to what the translation version makes him say.

When has Puck shown deference to anyone, ever?

Yeah... good point haha
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Skeleton on August 23, 2016, 09:38:16 PM
When Danan was first introduced I wondered if she was an elf. Both her unique appearance/clothes and her name (which reminded me of the goddesa Danu/Dana and specifically the Tuatha D Danann) were what made me wonder. It's nice to see that confirmed. I can't wait to see the episode.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: JMP on August 24, 2016, 12:21:23 AM
When Danan was first introduced I wondered if she was an elf.
Good call, Skeleton! I was wondering if Danan was more than what she initially let on because it seemed a little odd how she interrupted Cucca when Cucca was about to introduce her. I thought she might be trying to hide her identity for some reason by posing as a servant, but I never guessed she might be an elf, let alone possibly the Queen! Very much looking forward to seeing the full episode!  :ubik:

Edit: I just realized right as Puck was about to say to Guts "Don't be impatient, it's ok. Because the King (Queen?) of Elves is..." At that moment Danan brings in the cake and Puck gets distracted.  :ganishka: Now I really think she is the Queen!
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Walter on August 24, 2016, 01:00:14 AM
But haven't the past pronouns of the King always been described as 'he'? I thought the Skull Knight referred to the Elf King as male at one point. Wish I could look up these points more thoroughly, but I'm in the process of moving with all my books packed away.

You're overlooking that Japanese doesn't use pronouns in the same way that English does. Just because Dark Horse chose to translate it as "he" doesn't mean that's how it's written in Japanese.

Good call, Skeleton! I was wondering if Danan was more than what she initially let on because it seemed a little odd how she interrupted Cucca when Cucca was about to introduce her. I thought she might be trying to hide her identity for some reason by posing as a servant, but I never guessed she might be an elf, let alone possibly the Queen! Very much looking forward to seeing the full episode!  :ubik:

Edit: I just realized right as Puck was about to say to Guts "Don't be impatient, it's ok. Because the King (Queen?) of Elves is..." At that moment Danan brings in the cake and Puck gets distracted.  :ganishka: Now I really think she is the Queen!

Goddamn, that's such a cool catch! That's awesome. Miura was covering his tracks and we didn't even realize it.  :ubik: The gurus call her Danan before she introduces herself, but that could be because they'd already agreed on covering her identity, a conversation Cucca wouldn't have been present for.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Skeleton on August 24, 2016, 01:24:14 AM
Good call, Skeleton! I was wondering if Danan was more than what she initially let on because it seemed a little odd how she interrupted Cucca when Cucca was about to introduce her. I thought she might be trying to hide her identity for some reason by posing as a servant, but I never guessed she might be an elf, let alone possibly the Queen! Very much looking forward to seeing the full episode!  :ubik:

Edit: I just realized right as Puck was about to say to Guts "Don't be impatient, it's ok. Because the King (Queen?) of Elves is..." At that moment Danan brings in the cake and Puck gets distracted.  :ganishka: Now I really think she is the Queen!

I second Walter. Wow! You have an amazing eye! I would've never caught that.

I really hope she ends up being the queen!
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Arvin on August 24, 2016, 01:33:18 AM
When Danan was first introduced I wondered if she was an elf. Both her unique appearance/clothes and her name (which reminded me of the goddesa Danu/Dana and specifically the Tuatha D Danann) were what made me wonder. It's nice to see that confirmed. I can't wait to see the episode.

Was about to bring up how her name reminds me of the name of these legendary people. I just realized that a couple moments ago actually when seeing her true form, so you beat me to it.  :guts:

Anyway, I'm just glad that the concept of "true form"/"true name" or changing form has been brought again, Ivalera made a big deal when explaining that to Isma. It's also interesting to notice that Schierke suspected that the moonlight boy could have been related to the elf ruler, and he always appeared very human in form, just like a child, so I have recently been kinda expecting to see the elf king (whoever the ruler would be) or some kind of elves to show the ability to change to a more human form. Didn't expect to have already seen one since last episode though, so that's a very pleasant surprise.

Incidentally, I was reading about fairies for most of the day, kinda preparing for the next episode a few days from now, but I also didn't expect it to see these spoilers so soon, so I'm pretty delighted to see these images while my mind was filled of information about the fables. I wonder if the wolf faced kids are also centauric (the image seems to be cut in their waist), but they could be Wulvers, which is a benign folk-fairy critter part of the folklore of Shetland Islands. The tall and dark figures in the background that Walter mentions could be based on Leshy.

This will probably be one of my favorite episodes, so I can't wait to see everything in its full greatness.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Gobolatula on August 24, 2016, 02:39:39 AM
(http://www.gobolatula.com/wings1.png)
I was staring at this picture of her for a long time because of how you can sort of see part of the page behind it.


(http://www.gobolatula.com/wings2.png)
Grail pointed out that you can almost make out more of her features, such as her wings. Very interesting! (Sorry for the crude line drawing.)
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: MrMehawk on August 24, 2016, 04:21:45 AM
I do think you're onto something Gobolatula. This makes me even more excited since it seems the page before this or after this is also a huge panel. Seems like it's a really important reveal if there's two big panels for her.  :ubik:

Add that to the stuff from Episode 345 that was already discussed and I am pretty much convinced we're meeting a Queen of the Flower Storm. Definitely didn't expect that after all the "King"-ing in the translations.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Aazealh on August 24, 2016, 06:18:51 AM
where are the dwarves though :judo: i need to see them now

We see a bunch of stout guys, all different races, on the group shot of the previews.

big traditional fantasy elves?

For the record, Miura's elves are actually pretty traditionnal, more faithful to old legends and folklore than the high fantasy version popularized by Tolkien.

Ah, well I assume the Japanese sentence must have somewhat of the same tone to what the translation version makes him say.

No, not really. Danan and him exchange a pretty standard Japanese greeting. You should read better translations.

Edit: I just realized right as Puck was about to say to Guts "Don't be impatient, it's ok. Because the King (Queen?) of Elves is..." At that moment Danan brings in the cake and Puck gets distracted.

Indeed, that reinforces the possibility, and even what Ged says as well, about possibly vexing the "King" by rushing to him and demanding an audience (instead of enjoying Danan's food first). I mentioned that in my second post in this thread actually. :schnoz:

It's also interesting to notice that Schierke suspected that the moonlight boy could have been related to the elf ruler, and he always appeared very human in form, just like a child, so I have recently been kinda expecting to see the elf king (whoever the ruler would be) or some kind of elves to show the ability to change to a more human form.

Schierke's guess about the boy was based on very general information though, so it wasn't a specific indication of what kind of avatar the Elf ...Leader... can take. Especially since her assumption about the boy is mistaken.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Squiddot on August 24, 2016, 08:09:21 AM
For the record, Miura's elves are actually pretty traditionnal, more faithful to old legends and folklore than the high fantasy version popularized by Tolkien.

As are his trolls which were basically a more bestial and primitive take on the traditional Norwegian look, short furry with big noses and lionlike tails.

I really like that big shot of all the astral creatures. Can't wait to see what's been cropped out. Considering Miura's proven to have a lot of knowledge on traditional folklore I wouldnt be surprised if everything there has some sort of real world basis. I can definitley pick out the popular ones like gnomes, satyrs, centaurs and some goblins (loving their Jim Henson vibe!) But i really want to know whats the deal with the more individual figures on the right. Especially the one that looks to be dressed in magic user attire too.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Aazealh on August 24, 2016, 09:15:13 AM
Elfhelm seems to be a very interesting place, where gravity differs from that of the normal world. There is also really a whole bunch of creatures in there, too many to count. The tree is pretty badass, both inside and outside, yet the throne is appropriately low-key. But of course, the greatest part has to be Puck and Magnifico's long-running scheme coming to a ridiculous conclusion. :ganishka: As for the final reveal, well, it is as I thought. Awesome stuff. :guts:
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Pink-Dark-Boy on August 24, 2016, 09:28:47 AM

Ah nice, thanks for that! Just incase anyone is curious, it seems we are going to be getting another release next month.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Aazealh on August 24, 2016, 09:32:04 AM
Ah nice, thanks for that! Just incase anyone is curious, it seems we are going to be getting another release next month.

I really, really wish this wasn't the first fucking thing people talk about every time. What's the point of even reading the issues if all people care about is when the next one's out.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Kaladin on August 24, 2016, 09:41:28 AM
THIS LOOKS AMAZING!!!!

what exactly happened to isidro on the 2nd page? was he pushed up by the wind?
Puck's brothers(?) are perfect  :ganishka:
all these new Piskies have really nice designs, well done Miura! and we even got human sized elves, i did not expect that  :ubik:
assuming those tree men are the same as the ones we saw in previous episodes, but these guys are moving, that's really cool
Serpico is popular with the ladies  :serpico:, they seem to be associated with the wind from the looks of it
all these other creatures, this is so much in one episode  :magni:
that spread of the tree....its massive..
puck and the schemers got arrested  :judo:
the queen's elf design is amazing, she looks beautiful
this episode looks amazing, so many new things and a lot of dialog, can't wait to find out what's being said, can't wait for 9/23  :ubik:
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Squiddot on August 24, 2016, 10:09:22 AM
What an absolutely spectacular episode. I can't remember the last time I read an episode so densely packed with so much character. I had to take a breather just about every panel to appreciate every tiny detail packed in. But this might just be because i'm a monster aficionado, especially the quirky folkloric flavour on show right now.

Loving Azan having a conversation with a couple of dwarves, as well as all the bits Kaladin mentioned  :ganishka:

Can't wait to see what information is being divulged but holy shit guys THIS IS IT! Guts is literally FACE TO FACE WITH THE ELF KING QUEEN. I think i need to put myself into a coma until September.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Aazealh on August 24, 2016, 10:28:37 AM
what exactly happened to isidro on the 2nd page? was he pushed up by the wind?

Like I said 2 posts above yours, gravity works differently there.

Puck's brothers(?) are perfect

They are introduced as being his kindred, and bear similar sounding names, all starting with a P.

Serpico is popular with the ladies  :serpico:, they seem to be associated with the wind from the looks of it

Yes, that is why the flock to him. They can feel he's got an affinity with Sylphs.

Loving Azan having a conversation with a couple of dwarves

They must have mistaken him for a long lost cousin. :iva: "Stout and bearded... We approve!"

Anyway, in this moment I have a special thought for Dark Horse's translator and his exceptionally stupid decision to create the mistranslated monstrosity that is "Hanabufuku King". Have fun explaining to the readers that it's really "Queen of the Flower Storm".
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: MrFlibble on August 24, 2016, 11:19:07 AM
Can someone explain to a complete layman how the Flower Storm King translation got so muddled up?
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Squiddot on August 24, 2016, 11:40:49 AM
Can someone explain to a complete layman how the Flower Storm King translation got so muddled up?

Walter posted this to the reddit thread.

Quote
For clarity, if Danan turns out to be the ruler of the elves, her gender isn't something Miura pulled a last-minute switcharoo on. It's just that all along it's been one of those ambiguous Japanese titles that all translators assumed gender for.
Miura never specified the gender (even though he easily could have with either 王様 for a king or 女王 for a queen). Instead, all along, he's just used the kanji 王 in each case, which means simply ruler/sovereign and indeed, can also mean king OR queen, because Japanese is insane.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Nothingwillbewong on August 24, 2016, 12:00:04 PM
Holy crap the detail in this episode's art... Can't wait to understand what everyone is saying :???:
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Rhombaad on August 24, 2016, 12:17:55 PM
What an episode! I can't wait to see the pages close-up when I get home from work (right now I'm looking at them on my phone). It's this type of episode that keeps me in awe of Miura's genius. The art is incredible, and so is the storytelling.

I love that Danan turned out to be the Queen/Sovereign/Ruler of the Flower Storm. Her design is incredible and I love that her reveal was tied to the conclusion of Puck and Magnifico's scheme. (I love that Guts is the only one who doesn't react when Puck assumes the throne. He's been with him on the road too long to be fooled by his antics. :guts:)
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Aazealh on August 24, 2016, 12:19:17 PM
Here's a summary of the episode, courtesy of puella. As usual, be aware that there may be inaccuracies.

The episode title is Elfhelm.

It opens as the group ventures inside the forest, among huge trees. Isidro comments that he feels like he's become a dwarf. Serpico adds that it's bright, even though they are under the forest's thick canopy. Farnese comments that it's like the whole forest emits the light. Schierke explains thatiIt's because the forest is filled by an enormous Od. It's strong, yet very comfortable. This is the forest where the elf ...queen... lives.

Isidro says he feels like his body has become lighter. He jumps and just goes super high. Isma says it's great, it's like he's a grasshopper. Isidro is surprised and thinks he's flying, while Puck states that Isidro "has evolved". Ged brings the academic hammer down, explaining that it's because there's less elemental weight here. Schierke is curious, and Ged goes on. "Out of the elements that compose the world: fire, water, wind, earth... It's an element other than these four. It's the smallest type of being, the one that connects these four other elements. It's the elemental of weight." (He gives out a name, but I'll wait for the Japanese version to tell it.)

Ged keeps going: "These elementals are so small that I can't even see them with my spiritual sight. But when they gather, they make objects heavy and darken the sky, and they bring stuffiness and fixation on the mind. But most of them don't go well with the inhabitants of this forest." Basically, Miura just went deep Newtonian cosmological explanation on the Berserk world on us here.

Isma notes that her body is  indeed light, while Isidro yells at her to not shake the branch they're clinging to. Four elves then appear: Pick, Peck, Poock and Pock. Puck salutes them, and they respond in kind: "Ahhh long time no see / Oh Puck, you live / He must have gotten lost while playing / I was lonely without you, though I didn't notice until now". As more and more elves and other creatures gather into the clearing, they comment that humans are there, that the magicians brought humans into the forest.

Serpico says this is great, and Schierke muses "Ahhh this is Elfhelm indeed". The piskies bid the humans welcome, and ask them where they come from, why they came here, whether they're searching for treasure, and so on. Then they say that first, they should sing a song, and there should be dancing (as they grab hold of Farnese and Casca). Serpico tries to intervene, but some beings notice him, and more specifically the fact he's "surrounded by wind". They deem him their comrade, and grab hold of him, carrying him off... While this time it's Farnese who looks helpless as she sees him go. Meanwhile, Isidro & Isma fall down on friendly unicorns.

Seeing all this, Cucca comments that it's "how elves are supposed to be", while Schierke says it's chaos. While all that happens, Ivalera is sulking in her corner: "Ahhh damn, these forest dwellers aren't very polite, it's truly a rural place" (she's speaking as if she was a sophisticated city girl). But then a bunch of piskies come to her, asking her if she comes from the outside world, and asking her to tell them her story. Her nature immediately takes over and she agrees to tell them her story: "The Great Adventures of Schierke and Ivalera".

Puck's brothers gather around Guts, commenting that "this human is a bit serious... I feel seriousness from him. I can't handle such a heavy thing. He doesn't go well with this forest." But they can appreciate the rarity of his kind, so they decide to look very serious, just like him. Furrowing their brows, they tell him: "You managed to come here so we'll appreciate you. But it's too early to be relaxed, if you want to go forward, you should first deal with the Four Kings of P" and so on. Guts internalizes his feelings: "No doubt, they're from the same family as Puck is".

Ged sees that they're overwhelmed, and says he can't handle it, so he asks Danan to please take care of it. She blows in her horn, and ask everybody to please go over to the house, which they do. Arriving at the tree, Isidro says that seeing it closely, it's more like a rock mountain than a tree. "We could even easily build a castle on top of it." Serpico says it's magnificent, literally a sight beyond the normal world. Farnese just marvels at how pretty it is, and says there are so many elves in there. Isma is interested by the fact it's a cherry tree, and specifically wonders how many fruits it can bear. Puck tells her that they eat as many cherries as they want, all year long. That's because they regrow immediately after being picked.

Meanwhile, Schierke wonders to herself how the King of the Flower Storm will be, he who rules over so many elves, who resides in such a huge spiritual tree... Danan leads the way, telling them they're going to get inside through this hole. Casca verifies that the flower petals are edible. Once inside, Guts says it's a labyrinth, and Serpico is grateful that their bodies are so light. Magnifico figures that the time is right to remind Puck of their agreement. Here is an approximation of their exchange below:

Magnifico: Lord Puck...
Puck: Hm, what?
Magnifico: Please take care of our previously agreed upon business?
Puck: What business?
Magnifico: You already forgot? I'll help you get on the throne.
Puck: Uhhh? Wha-? Ah, oh yeah, uh-huh sure.
Magnifico: First of all, please ask the current king to abdicate.
Puck: Ok, I'll grant it.

They arrive to the throne room, and Serpico says that "the tree itself is a palace". Danan gently complains to some guys dozing there that they've you already messed the place up even though it's only mid-day. She then asks brownies (a kind of folkloric creatures) to help clean, since they have guests! Trumpets are sounded, and Magnifico sighs with relief: they'll finally have their audience. Danan tells her minions to hurry to clean up.Isidro wonders who the hell Puck's boss could be?  (and clearly assumes it's a male)

Puck then arrives on the throne, disguised as the king, with his brothers in toe. They proclaim: "Here comes the king of elves!" and order the assistance to "Bow down!" before him. Everyone is flabbergasted. "Is it a coup?! Puck is the king?!" The elves themselves seem unperturbed: "Oh, is that so? So what? Won't every day be a day off if we put him on the throne?" Magnifico is a wreck: "I messed up, how could I have expected that he was the king! I should pretend not to know anything, no matter what. At any rate, my great plan to pioneer the elf market is all over." Puck tells his subjects that if they flatter him now, Magnifico, the minister of economy of his new government, will reward them all with money!

The elves ask him whether he sold the country to humans, to which Puck says that yes, he did. Magnifico desperately tries to deny any implication. Elf guards yell "treason" as they subdue Puck and Magnifico. Poor Magnifico keeps trying to distance himself from the coup: "I don't know what he's talking about! Damn elves, whenever they open their mouths, only jokes come out!" But Puck foils his attempts: "My royal servant Magnifico, my plot to take over the state has been put in disarray." Magnifico thinks to himself that he must absolutely get out of there, but they're put in shackles, and the order is given to drag them away. Puck parting words to Magnifico are "we'll meet again in Valhalla".

Danan then intervenes, telling Puck that he shouldn't try to overthrow the state. She asks him if he became a bad boy when he went out into the outside world, gently chastizing him. Fully transformed into the Queen of the Flower Storm, she then turns to the group and tells them: "Dear travelers, welcome to our Elfhelm."
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Rhombaad on August 24, 2016, 12:28:53 PM
Thank you, Aazealh and Puella! You guys made my day!
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Mangetsu on August 24, 2016, 12:39:40 PM
Thank you very much for the summary guys!

Puck's brothers provoking Guts for being too serious made me crack up  :ganishka:

Seriously, a lot of cool stuff happening. I can't believe that we are so close to Casca's recovery, it almost feels unreal. The talk about this new element that only applies to humans is very interesting... Can't wait to hear more about that.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Gobolatula on August 24, 2016, 12:40:58 PM
Thank you so much Aaz and Puella.

This is one of the episodes I thought about years ago, wondering what it would be like. I am not disappointed. What's in this episode far surpasses years worth of my imagined visions for what this place would be like.

Also, for years I had, for some reason, imagined the elf ruler to be somebody quite scary. I'm glad to see that it seems to be somebody who's very kind.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Aazealh on August 24, 2016, 12:49:37 PM
Also, for years I had, for some reason, imagined the elf ruler to be somebody quite scary. I'm glad to see that it seems to be somebody who's very kind.

Actually, I think puella should be given props for imagining that there would be a kind Elf Queen, adept at healing, all the way back in 2002, when we had just learned about Elfhelm's existence. The story itself is strictly fan fiction, but she absolutely nailed that part. (http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=3708)

Even Strix (http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=525)'s depiction of the queen actually holds up pretty well, I think:

(http://www.aazealh.net/Divers/Queen_of_Elves-by_Strix-for_puella.jpg)
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Squiddot on August 24, 2016, 12:57:57 PM
Awesome work on the translation as always guys! The fact that Puck's kin are all just named with varying vowels is cracking me up. And there's some great nuggets buried in there.

This Element of Weight is such an out there thing to bring up. Its sounds a bit too abstract to fully grasp without direct translation so i'll avoid too much speculation. But its sounds like it has the potential to be quite a malicious force. Maybe it's just the imagery of "Darkening the skies" which we've already come to closely associate with another party. :ubik:

Coming up next month, Puck and Magnifico are executed for conspiring against the throne!
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: RaffoBaffo on August 24, 2016, 01:21:08 PM
Thanks a lot for the summary  :ubik:
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: luizao on August 24, 2016, 01:22:36 PM
Thank you as always Aazealh and Puella!

I think translating all this gender issues is hard, of course its a mistake but some Berserk fans are overreacting about this. Knowing all this, don't you think that the Sovereign of the Flower Storm name should belong to a Queen instead of a King? Putting aside the translation I still think that the Queen might put the crew in some kind of challenge to prove themselves, despite Danan's behaviour has been charming and pleasant.

The other interesting reveal was the weight elemental, I guess it's some kind of Gravity particle that affect more in the outside world. There might be interesting mechanics between the Od and this elemental but we don't know until we learn more about it.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Aazealh on August 24, 2016, 01:29:12 PM
I think translating all this gender issues is hard, of course its a mistake but some Berserk fans are overreacting about this.

No mistake was made. Miura clearly intended the gender of the Elf Leader to be a surprise, as even this episode shows.
The proper translation for the word is "king". It's just that in Japanese, it can refer to a woman. That's how languages work.

Besides, when Puella and I decided to translate the title as "King of the Flower Storm" over a decade ago, I'm pretty sure people were told that there was a degree of uncertainty. Similarly, it was explained that Miura had used the expression for "snow storm", swapping "snow" with "flower" (with a connotation of "heavily falling" petals rather than "wild winds and thunder"), and that there was a high likeliness that it would be cherry blossoms. Some things can be known, others can't. Again, that's how languages work.

Knowing all this, don't you think that the Sovereign of the Flower Storm name should belong to a Queen instead of a King?

The exact term hasn't been chosen yet, but we will probably switch to a gender neutral word rather than going for "Queen of the Flower Storm". It's the most accurate way of translating it, and it's what the author intended.

The other interesting reveal was the weight elemental, I guess it's some kind of Gravity particle that affect more in the outside world. There might be interesting mechanics between the Od and this elemental but we don't know until we learn more about it.

Well yeah, that much is obvious. The concept seems strongly inspired by physics, but its application to the magical world of Berserk makes it very interesting. I'm sure we'll know more about it soon enough.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: ApostleBob on August 24, 2016, 01:53:00 PM
Hmmm, I'm probably reaching here, but I think we have a new candidate for the woman on Skull Knight's horse's armor.

Thanks for the Summary Puella and Aaz.

Big events happening here.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Griffith on August 24, 2016, 02:10:34 PM
:miura: "...You will have a QUEEEEN!" (https://youtu.be/spHEw2n9LwE)

Love it! Not just for all the cool creatures and reveals that are obviously great; their walk through the area reminded me of the Wings of Light and Darkness and Qliphoth episodes, only the opposite, but the fucking comedy with Puck's brothers and him as "the King" was fantastic, especially since we'd already been jokingly speculating about the possibility (Miura played us like fiddles =).

Also, really digging the "Elf Queen" design, and it begs the question... is Griffith a ripoff and created as a sort of evil analog or equivalent to her?
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Aazealh on August 24, 2016, 02:18:12 PM
Hmmm, I'm probably reaching here, but I think we have a new candidate for the woman on Skull Knight's horse's armor.

Hehe, yeah reaching quite a bit here I think. Or then not a very faithful representation. :iva:

the fucking comedy with Puck's brothers and him as "the King" was fantastic, especially since we'd already been jokingly speculating about the possibility (Miura played us like fiddles =).

Yeah I'm really glad he went all the way with that actually. It definitely feels like a gentle poke in the ribs to the inevitable theories that sprouted up during all those years about Puck secretly being the Elf King. :guts:

Also, really digging the "Elf Queen" design, and it begs the question... is Griffith a ripoff and created as a sort of evil analog or equivalent to her?

You know what, I actually had the same thought, specifically because of her flower garments. They're reminiscent of the feather pattern somehow, and with the hair and the rest... I don't know, I wonder if there isn't an intentional kind of symmetry to it.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Androyd on August 24, 2016, 02:24:31 PM
I've waited years to see Puck and Magnifico overthrow Elfhelm, only for them to botch the attempt. :puck:

Thanks for scans and summary. Berserk always cheers me up.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Delta Phi on August 24, 2016, 02:24:57 PM
Incredible! I almost feel just an overwhelmed as our heroes! So many new creatures. The comedy in this episode was top notch. I loved the panel with the elf prying Serpico's eye open to get a better look! :serpico: And Puck as the king is rather hysterical. I must admit feeling slightly let down after years of imagining a king on the throne, BUT that reveal...Good god, it got me a little bit I have to admit (This is happening! It's really happening!). The [Ruler] of the Flower Storm is every bit as impressive as one could expect. What an absolutely stunning splash page! And the more I think about it, the more I appreciate having my expectations subverted. It really is just a fantastic surprise after all these years.

Anyway, in this moment I have a special thought for Dark Horse's translator and his exceptionally stupid decision to create the mistranslated monstrosity that is "Hanabufuku King". Have fun explaining to the readers that it's really "Queen of the Flower Storm".

Much like "hawk" I'm sure they'll just ignore their mistake. "'Hanabufuku King' is what we call all of our monarchs!" :schnoz:
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Griffith on August 24, 2016, 02:41:06 PM
Hmmm, I'm probably reaching here, but I think we have a new candidate for the woman on Skull Knight's horse's armor.
Hehe, yeah reaching quite a bit here I think. Or then not a very faithful representation. :iva:

Cool idea though, maybe it's a more Gothic representation better married to his style. Hmmm, married; maybe there's a King we've already met after all... naaaaah. :badbone:

Yeah I'm really glad he went all the way with that actually. It definitely feels like a gentle poke in the ribs to the inevitable theories that sprouted up during all those years about Puck secretly being the Elf King. :guts:

To the point I half wish it were true! Puck looked pretty good as a traditional King. :ganishka: :puck:

You know what, I actually had the same thought, specifically because of her flower garments. They're reminiscent of the feather pattern somehow, and with the hair and the rest... I don't know, I wonder if there isn't an intentional kind of symmetry to it.

Great minds and all that. :slan:
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Aazealh on August 24, 2016, 02:41:55 PM
So after much brow-furrowing (just like the Puck family), it is hereby decreed that the most accurate title for the Elf Queen is: Sovereign of the Flower Storm.
It's a mouthful, I know, but it's what best conveys the proper meaning of it.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Walter on August 24, 2016, 02:46:22 PM
Also, really digging the "Elf Queen" design, and it begs the question... is Griffith a ripoff and created as a sort of evil analog or equivalent to her?

Furthermore, Rochine's design is similar. She wanted to be the Queen of the Elves even though she'd never seen such a being, but her design isn't far from the real thing.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Feeblecursedone on August 24, 2016, 02:49:10 PM
I wonder what are those tall, sinister looking creatures in background ( they remind me of gilians from bleach ) with white elongated noses/face. There's also some kind of goblin-esque type of small humanoinds and what seems like dryads to me. Unicorns were also correctly guessed to be here, as all creatures here seem to be of " good " alignment.

Edit: I think these might be our dwarves, they have different tools and long hats

(http://i63.tinypic.com/qz54hw.jpg)
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Aazealh on August 24, 2016, 03:01:17 PM
I wonder what are those tall, sinister looking creatures in background ( they remind me of gilians from bleach ) with white elongated noses/face. There's also some kind of goblin-esque type of small humanoinds and what seems like dryads to me.

One species could be Kobolds, but for some of these guys I have no idea honestly.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Walter on August 24, 2016, 03:16:15 PM
Edit: I think these might be our dwarves, they have different tools and long hats

We also clearly see the dwarves talking with Azan on Page 7.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Feeblecursedone on August 24, 2016, 03:19:29 PM
We also clearly see the dwarves talking with Azan on Page 7.

Haha, yeah, probably drawn to him cause of the armour design  ( or the fact he's almost as sh...tall as them and wide )  :serpico:

Hopefully they approach Guts and note what he's wearing.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: DragoonBG on August 24, 2016, 03:23:19 PM
What an insane episode :)! Thank you for the translation.

Miura is going nuts with his art. The amount of work put into his drawings is amazing. I like a lot how much he is stays true/traditional to the creatures design. I've got a great vibe from "A Midsummer Night's Dream" (which I haven't red :(), and maybe some inspirations from it (in particular the many different paintings inspired by the comedy).

This particular painting by Edward Robert Hughes, hits home on Danan :) (there is flute in there as well):

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ce/Edward_Robert_Hughes_-_Midsummer_Eve_%281908c%29.jpg)

Btw, this is probably talked about a long time ago (I'm pretty sure), but does Puck from the comedy count as inspiration for our little elf in Berserk as well?

One more thing, I red the whole thread, but I have to ask this: Is Danan 100% the ruler?
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Grail on August 24, 2016, 03:25:26 PM
Thank you very much for the summary!

Now that's what I call a reveal! As I was telling Gob the other day, I think that one of Miura's strengths is in always managing to exceed expectations, and having Danan transform into the Sovereign of the Flower Storm is a perfect example. It's so much better than just having them walking into the throne room and be greeted a fancy-looking character - that's what I think many of us (including myself) were initially expecting. This twist at the very end gives it a mystical, whimsical feel that makes me feel very excited about what other surprises are in store! :carcus:

Furthermore, Rochine's design is similar. She wanted to be the Queen of the Elves even though she'd never seen such a being, but her design isn't far from the real thing.
I was thinking about that, too. It's kind of bittersweet to see everything in Elfhelm and remember Rochine's attempt at creating her own "kingdom." Not that it wasn't already twisted at the time, but now it's just EXTRA sad. :sad:
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Femto96 on August 24, 2016, 03:35:33 PM
Anyone else think that the gender of the Sovereign of the Flower Storm will help in Casca's recovery? For example, in terms of the rape and Casca's feelings etc.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: jackson_hurley on August 24, 2016, 03:41:42 PM
Well that was quite an interesting episode! Not much to add since a lot has been said already. I like the designs, I like the creatures, I like the vibe and feel of these past episodes. Awesome time to be a Berserk fan.

Too bad the dark horse translations will probably be shit as usual. Can't wait toe see what's next. In the meanwhile I'll be observing the wonderful artwork of this episode. Thx a lot guys.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Rhombaad on August 24, 2016, 03:49:29 PM
So after much brow-furrowing (just like the Puck family), it is hereby decreed that the most accurate title for the Elf Queen is: Sovereign of the Flower Storm.
It's a mouthful, I know, but it's what best conveys the proper meaning of it.

I like it. :guts:

I couldn't help but notice the parallels between Misty Valley and Elfhelm, and the Sovereign of the Flower Storm and Rochine, either. Miura is great at that sort of thing. I hadn't thought about a parallel between Griffith and the Sovereign of the Flower Storm, though. That's an interesting idea.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Aazealh on August 24, 2016, 04:01:17 PM
Btw, this is probably talked about a long time ago (I'm pretty sure), but does Puck from the comedy count as inspiration for our little elf in Berserk as well?

The character and name of Puck dates back to way before that play. He's a character from folklore, which is where Miura gets most of his inspiration from.

Anyone else think that the gender of the Sovereign of the Flower Storm will help in Casca's recovery? For example, in terms of the rape and Casca's feelings etc.

I don't think that will have any bearing on it, no. Beyond gender, remember that elves aren't like humans. They are of a different nature. Furthermore, while they have attributes like breasts and such, they are asexual as far as we know.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Rupert Sinclair on August 24, 2016, 04:11:49 PM
Perfect.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Arvin on August 24, 2016, 04:17:39 PM
Thanks a lot for the summary Aaz and Puela!

Absolutely fantastic episode.

The diversity of denizens from this Island and the richness of the deep folkloric overtones shown in this episode are a tremendous joy to see and feel.

I also enjoyed seeing Serpico "courted" and taken by the wind folk. In the same page there's this wide big panel of Farnese and Casca caught by the plethora of astral creatures in this sort of joyous march. I'm reminded of Miura's take on the Garden of Earthly Delights on episode 306, this time presenting what feels like a much more lighthearted and friendly march here. There's even an elf that resembles Irvine with the bycocket-esque hat and the musical instrument, some form of violin, so can't say she's missing a bow either!!  :ganishka:

Schierke's guess about the boy was based on very general information though, so it wasn't a specific indication of what kind of avatar the Elf ...Leader... can take. Especially since her assumption about the boy is mistaken.

Yup, it's just the contemplation of the idea simply being raised by Schierke, added to the concept brought up by Ivalera and being somewhat illustrated by Isma's case, even though Isma may not be a proper astral creature or elf, and had been at the time our only example (although Ivalera does say in a relatively including manner that elves, spirits and other kins have a true or secret name that governs their true form). The idea just felt plausible and appealing to me, both in-universe due to these related enough elements and based on fairy-folk tales across the world.

As I was reading yesterday in one encyclopedia, fairy tales are ridden by all sorts of elf-folk that come in the most diverse sizes and shapes, as well as often enough the capability to shapeshift.

I find it really crafty from Miura's part how he's able to keep firmly rooted to a lot of the source inspiration while not feeling necessarily limited by it. A lot of the fantasy content feels very close to a lot of folk-tale sources, yet in some ways it also feels like its own thing. My impression of course.

Relating to that, it's interesting to see Miura keeping the tradition of centaurs being male gendered (at least all the ones we have seen in this episode). Makes for an interesting counterpart to the, at least so far, all female merrows. It also makes me wonder how (if?) these folk are able to reproduce, or how some of these astral denizens come to be. I hope we can get some more hints about the nature of these beings in the next episode, or if not in future conversations there at Elfhelm.

Another curious folk from this episode to me are the horned and deer-faced folk, they remind me of the image of Cernnunos, thought to be a celtic "horned god", so it strikes close to home to a lot of these folk source inspiration. The antique imagery of this idol is depicted among wolves, deers and other animals too, so it's quite reminiscent.

(http://f.tqn.com/y/paganwiccan/1/W/D/-/-/-/CernunnosGundestrup.gif)

Still entranced by all the imagery in this episode. What a celebration for this long awaited meeting.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Pink-Dark-Boy on August 24, 2016, 04:25:51 PM
Thanks for the summary! I read through it a tad and one thing that has my interest is "the element of weight". Just for clarification, would I be correct in assuming it is related with gravity? If so, then I guess it would explain the dilation of time from Skellig to the outside world.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Aazealh on August 24, 2016, 04:40:58 PM
Thanks for the summary! I read through it a tad and one thing that has my interest is "the element of weight". Just for clarification, would I be correct in assuming it is related with gravity?

Yes, that and other things.

I'm reminded of Miura's take on the Garden of Earthly Delights on episode 306, this time presenting what feels like a much more lighthearted and friendly march here.

Agreed, I had the same thought. And like Griff and I discussed earlier with Griffith, Ubik's version feels like a perversion of the "original" that is shown here.

even though Isma may not be a proper astral creature or elf

I think she can be called an astral creature by all means, even though she's half-human (like every Merrow?). Not an elf, though (and not all of the creatures we saw gathered in that clearing were elves either).

I find it really crafty from Miura's part how he's able to keep firmly rooted to a lot of the source inspiration while not feeling necessarily limited by it. A lot of the fantasy content feels very close to a lot of folk-tale sources, yet in some ways it also feels like its own thing. My impression of course.

I agree, and it's something I've long professed. I've always thought of it as a very impressive feat on Miura's part, actually.

Relating to that, it's interesting to see Miura keeping the tradition of centaurs being male gendered (at least all the ones we have seen in this episode). Makes for an interesting counterpart to the, at least so far, all female merrows.

And the fox-beings seem to all be female as well, while the deer ones are male.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Gobolatula on August 24, 2016, 04:42:44 PM
(http://www.gobolatula.com/cascy.png)
Got bored.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Aazealh on August 24, 2016, 04:55:48 PM
(http://www.gobolatula.com/cascy.png)
Got bored.

Haha, I love it!
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Vixen Comics on August 24, 2016, 05:43:45 PM
I am so pleased with this episode!  :ubik: I am also amazed how Miura is just hitting the ground running with the pace of these episodes. He pretty much wasted no time hitting all the points and then moving along in a quick yet very satisfying way. And I am just tickled by Puck's antics with Magnifico. God I loved the way he trolled him (and everyone else) with that King business. Poor Magnifico, he's such a butt monkey!

I am most surprised by Dannan and her reveal to be the Sovereign of the Flower Storm. After expecting a king for so long this was quite a pleasant shock. I really love how in the background she was really when we first met her and then bam! She turns out to be the one Guts has been wanting to see all along. And in that vein, it's a good thing Ged and Puck in a round about way cautioned Guts to chill and take things slow and not acting gruff about being detained. We all know how Guts does not always adhere to decorum and I imagine Guts might have been more vocal maybe even rough about being kept waiting if no one had gently cautioned him to just relax and enjoy a meal first. Jeez, nothing is worse than being observed and even judged when you don't know it and you are feeling stressed, so there not showing your best self.  Too think how things might have played out other wise.

I also wonder if the Elf Sovereign put the gurus up to asking Guts questions about Griffith. This makes me think she is quite concerned as well.

Elfhelm reminds me of creatures governed by Oberon and his wife Titanya.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: DragoonBG on August 24, 2016, 07:02:32 PM
The character and name of Puck dates back to way before that play. He's a character from folklore, which is where Miura gets most of his inspiration from.
I meant the character in the comedy not the creature itself :) (maybe I wrote it wrong). I only looked the generalized description - mischievous, servent of the king, etc - but I don't know the story (as I said). It's not all that important just curiosity.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: ApostleBob on August 24, 2016, 07:15:41 PM
And I am just tickled by Puck's antics with Magnifico. God I loved the way he trolled him (and everyone else) with that King business. Poor Magnifico, he's such a butt monkey!

It does make me wonder what the purpose of this little sub plot was. I can't tell if the whole thing was just a long running joke that will have little consequence, or if this was just Miuras way to get rid of a character he didn't know what to do with (Magnifico). Hopefully there's more in store for him, but he's seemed like a very odd addition to the party for some time. Farnese's relation to him almost guarantees that he wont be left rotting in an elf dungeon though.

A second thing that springs to mind: Why introduce a new element so late in the game. No one was really asking how elves fly. I feel like this will be coming into play in the near future in a bigger way than to explain how elves float, perhaps as something magic users can manipulate in the near future (beyond brooms).  Or maybe Miura is just having fun world building.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Rupert Sinclair on August 24, 2016, 07:29:57 PM
It does make me wonder what the purpose of this little sub plot was. I can't tell if the whole thing was just a long running joke that will have little consequence, or if this was just Miuras way to get rid of a character he didn't know what to do with (Magnifico). Hopefully there's more in store for him, but he's seemed like a very odd addition to the party for some time. Farnese's relation to him almost guarantees that he wont be left rotting in an elf dungeon though.

I think you might be taking the situation a little too seriously.  I don't think Magnifico is going anywhere, especially not to an "elf dungeon".
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Sarcamos12 on August 24, 2016, 07:34:32 PM
So many Chestnuts.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Feeblecursedone on August 24, 2016, 07:50:37 PM
Quote
It does make me wonder what the purpose of this little sub plot was

I wonder what the purpose of Magnifico is in general aside being comedy relief ( and a poor one on top of that )
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Cyrus Jong on August 24, 2016, 08:00:43 PM
Gorgeous episode. Miura definitely had a lot of fun drawing all these European fae creatures and implementing them into his own mythology. It must have been a real interesting change of pace to fill his pages up with more fanciful-looking beings, rather than the usual nightmarish monsters he typically draws. There've always been hints that there was something whimsical buried deep within the otherwise oppressive setting, and to see them come out in full force after so long is amazing. I always felt a bit sad that I didn't start following Berserk on an episodic basis back when the Millennium Falcon arc was in its early stages, just so I could gradually take in the way the Berserk world was beginning to both change and open up, but I'm glad I get to follow along with this. No matter how deep you go, there's always more to delve into.

It does make me wonder what the purpose of this little sub plot was. I can't tell if the whole thing was just a long running joke that will have little consequence, or if this was just Miuras way to get rid of a character he didn't know what to do with (Magnifico). Hopefully there's more in store for him, but he's seemed like a very odd addition to the party for some time. Farnese's relation to him almost guarantees that he wont be left rotting in an elf dungeon though.
I don't think Magnifico's going to suffer any serious consequences. It's just another embarrassment on the pile. There's likely more in store for him, once he gets back into his element (or the closest thing to it, considering what a fop he is), which a seabound ship or an island full of supernatural beings are most definitely not.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: ApostleBob on August 24, 2016, 08:27:24 PM
I wonder what the purpose of Magnifico is in general aside being comedy relief ( and a poor one on top of that )

Don't get me wrong, I'm not shit talking the manga or doubting Miura. He's always pulled seemingly unconnected elements together in satisfying ways. But we do know he allows himself the flexibility in his story to change elements and have the plot evolve over time. For example during the Black Swordsman, I believe he's stated that he didn't know how all of the Golden Age was going to play out and even what characters would be in it, and look how that turned out  :ubik:

We just haven't really seen much of a role for Magnifico, other than a rich civilian, who's allowed to be the eyes of the average man for us. I'm just wondering if the goofy little plot for taking the Elf Kingdom's throne was a way for Miura to sideline him for a while.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Aazealh on August 24, 2016, 08:39:18 PM
It does make me wonder what the purpose of this little sub plot was.

WHAT IF.... the purpose was for it to be funny?

I can't tell if the whole thing was just a long running joke that will have little consequence, or if this was just Miuras way to get rid of a character he didn't know what to do with (Magnifico). Hopefully there's more in store for him, but he's seemed like a very odd addition to the party for some time. Farnese's relation to him almost guarantees that he wont be left rotting in an elf dungeon though.

I think there is absolutely no chance at all that anything will happen to Magnifico or Puck.

A second thing that springs to mind: Why introduce a new element so late in the game. No one was really asking how elves fly.

No offense but I think you're out of your depth here. Elves like Puck (Piskies) use their wings to fly, and they're associated with sylphs (the element of air). The new element will indeed have a role to play, and no doubt an important one, but we have to wait to learn more about it. To tell you the truth, I already have some ideas, but I want to think about them a bit more before posting.

We just haven't really seen much of a role for Magnifico, other than a rich civilian, who's allowed to be the eyes of the average man for us. I'm just wondering if the goofy little plot for taking the Elf Kingdom's throne was a way for Miura to sideline him for a while.

I don't think so. No matter where in the world you are, there's always a place for a merchant. Magnifico will eventually have a role to play, even if it's a minor one (but then, he's a minor character).
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: DANGERDOOOOM on August 24, 2016, 08:53:36 PM
I love how Guts is very unimpressed with the other Piskies. Once you've met one you've met them all  :ganishka:

Miura never fails to deliver nothing but amazing quality and story. I had my doubts about Danan, but I guess my own theories are blown out of the water. She is stunning looking. Great character design.

Wonder if all Guts' crew will get their own personal unicorn to ride into battle with :guts: Guts charging into Falconia on a unicorn. Can't be any more threatening than that.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Oburi on August 24, 2016, 09:24:41 PM
Amazing episode! I'm actually so happy that after years and years of buildup Miura still managed to throw us a curve ball by introducing the Queen! And in the way he did, creatively subverting our expectations of finding an old elf king sitting on his throne waiting for Guts.   I don't want to get too hung up on the new element since we don't really know anything, but I wonder just what kind of importance it will eventually be shown to have.  I was already toying with the idea that Miura would introduce something new and truly mystical, a sort of force-like mystery power that would explain everything in the magical world (Jedi Guts fantasy).  Of course I don't seriously expect that to happen, but I do think that we are going to have some major world building bombshells dropped on us in the near future that may change the way we view certain aspects of the story. New elements and the like, Miura could really go all out with this  :guts:
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: JMP on August 24, 2016, 10:23:57 PM
Wow, I adore this episode!  :ubik: Thanks for the summary, puella and Aazealh!
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Griffith on August 24, 2016, 10:41:27 PM
Furthermore, Rochine's design is similar. She wanted to be the Queen of the Elves even though she'd never seen such a being, but her design isn't far from the real thing.
I was thinking about that, too. It's kind of bittersweet to see everything in Elfhelm and remember Rochine's attempt at creating her own "kingdom." Not that it wasn't already twisted at the time, but now it's just EXTRA sad. :sad:

Damn, that's a great catch that should have been obvious to me, like the Sovereign's design didn't even particularly stand out because I've seen it before (particularly the ears); and a thought that's impossible to think would be lost on Miura. Danan has way better hair though. :griffnotevil:

Agreed, I had the same thought. And like Griff and I discussed earlier with Griffith, Ubik's version feels like a perversion of the "original" that is shown here.

In that same school of thought, it would also help explain why Schierke would confuse the Moonlight Boy with an emissary of the Sovereign of the Flower Storm if Griffith's power/od is indeed something of an impersonation. Speaking of which, as mentioned earlier...

http://i63.tinypic.com/qz54hw.jpg

Compare to the attached below:
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Uriel on August 25, 2016, 12:19:03 AM
My bookstore should have it in later -- happy to answer any questions at that time =)
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Khalamir on August 25, 2016, 12:24:46 AM
Maybe this fifth element has something to do with how Femto's powers work.  :femto:

I'm a bit confused. Last episode Puck said that the elf king is not an easy person to deal with, right? Was that just a goof from the korean scans, then? Because it's only mentioned in the summary and Danann seems pretty nice.

Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Squiddot on August 25, 2016, 12:30:19 AM
Lots of people bringing up the Misty Valley connections. I think its fitting that the last revenge driven journey Guts embarked on would echo the paradise he reaches at the end of his much nobler quest.

Also, hats off to the leaker for not being sneaky with the cropping and only show chestnut puck, his entourage and his king disguise. If I was in their position I dont think i would have been able to resist . :ganishka:
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Earthlingzing on August 25, 2016, 01:22:22 AM
A Midsummer Night's Dream is not a bad comparison, we got our Titania and Puck already here after all.

Speaking of which, I love that elf queen design, its so unorthodox yet elegant in its own way.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Kaladin on August 25, 2016, 01:39:45 AM
Maybe this fifth element has something to do with how Femto's powers work.  :femto:

I'm a bit confused. Last episode Puck said that the elf king is not an easy person to deal with, right? Was that just a goof from the korean scans, then? Because it's only mentioned in the summary and Danann seems pretty nice.

that was probably just the inaccurate korean translations, this is what puck actually says

Quote
Puck: Don't be impatient, it's Ok. Because the King of Elves is...
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: zrexe on August 25, 2016, 01:43:41 AM
Maybe this fifth element has something to do with how Femto's powers work.  :femto:

I'm a bit confused. Last episode Puck said that the elf king is not an easy person to deal with, right? Was that just a goof from the korean scans, then? Because it's only mentioned in the summary and Danann seems pretty nice.

My guess is that this new element has been imbued into Guts DS, which might explain why he is able to swing his weapon with such ease.... or maybe Guts is just strong. :guts:
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Rupert Sinclair on August 25, 2016, 03:26:24 AM
My guess is that this new element has been imbued into Guts DS, which might explain why he is able to swing his weapon with such ease.... or maybe Guts is just strong. :guts:

I think that would actually make it heavier...
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Skeleton on August 25, 2016, 04:22:25 AM
(http://www.gobolatula.com/cascy.png)
Got bored.

That's awesome!  :ganishka:

I can't wait for Puella's translation of the explanation of this new element. I really like how Miura has taken the systems of magic found in fantasy and mysticism and tied them directly to real world physics, seamlessly creating a system of that makes the older, more used elements feel fresh and new while giving it a new layer of depth not found in other works. (For example, how Miura connects the classical elements to the real world's four states of matter as opposed to having the elements come from another plane or having the world of Berserk be made from elementals.)

Anyways, Danan's form is such a beautiful design. I hope we get a poster of her someday.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: ApostleBob on August 25, 2016, 04:47:46 AM
No offense but I think you're out of your depth here. Elves like Puck (Piskies) use their wings to fly, and they're associated with sylphs (the element of air). The new element will indeed have a role to play, and no doubt an important one, but we have to wait to learn more about it. To tell you the truth, I already have some ideas, but I want to think about them a bit more before posting.

No offense taken. I guess my point was that we already know enough about how Piskies fly so the new explanation of how Fae do things seems redundant or is answering a question know one is asking. Which to me says it will be important down the road, or else why introduce it in so specific a way. Perhaps they'll use it to get over Falconia's walls in several volumes. Maybe a weigh down flying enemies. Who knows? but I'm sure it's more than window dressing.

I don't think so. No matter where in the world you are, there's always a place for a merchant. Magnifico will eventually have a role to play, even if it's a minor one (but then, he's a minor character).

I hope you're right. An oddball character like him could create an interesting curveball down the line. He's not exactly the traditional hero or companion.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Aazealh on August 25, 2016, 08:04:30 AM
Wonder if all Guts' crew will get their own personal unicorn to ride into battle with :guts: Guts charging into Falconia on a unicorn. Can't be any more threatening than that.

Yeeeeah... no.

I don't want to get too hung up on the new element since we don't really know anything, but I wonder just what kind of importance it will eventually be shown to have.  I was already toying with the idea that Miura would introduce something new and truly mystical, a sort of force-like mystery power that would explain everything in the magical world (Jedi Guts fantasy).

I don't want to be the guy who just rains on everyone's parade (I know, I know... I am that guy), but we don't need a "force-like mystery power". We don't need one because we already have plenty of forces explaining how magic works. There are the four basic elements of course, then there's the Od (which is what George Lucas originally based the concept of the Force on), and finally all the explanations Miura has sprinkled in the story explaining how the different realms interact with each other.

To reiterate what I've said before: this new element is more akin to an astrophysics discovery. Think of it like Newton discovering gravity, or Einstein coming up with the concept of spacetime. To go farther than that, what I immediately thought of when I learned of it was neutrinos, and I'll bet you anything that Miura got the inspiration for it from the confirmation by CERN of the existence of Higgs' Boson. Beyond that, I think the concept as described by Ged (provided the Korean translation isn't too off) even matches the double meaning of "gravity" in English, what with it bringing "stuffiness and fixation on the mind".

In that same school of thought, it would also help explain why Schierke would confuse the Moonlight Boy with an emissary of the Sovereign of the Flower Storm if Griffith's power/od is indeed something of an impersonation.

That is an interesting thought, but I think it's slightly different. Basically I don't think Griffith's Od could possibly be close to that of an elf (due to its inherent nature, and the fact it makes the Brand bleed, etc.). So to me the fact the boy's own Od differs and is gentle must have another explanation... Like maybe it's his own power and not Griffith's (Femto's), or something like that.

But while we're on the topic, I do think the new element we just learned of plays a key role in Griffith's otherworldly charisma.

I'm a bit confused. Last episode Puck said that the elf king is not an easy person to deal with, right? Was that just a goof from the korean scans, then? Because it's only mentioned in the summary and Danann seems pretty nice.

Yes, it was an inaccuracy resulting from translating a translation. That's why those summaries should always be taken with a grain of salt, as I warn the reader each time I post one. The only solid reference is the real episode translation, which you can find in the corresponding section of the forum.

A Midsummer Night's Dream is not a bad comparison, we got our Titania and Puck already here after all.

To reiterate what I've said before, both the concept of an Elf Queen and that of the mischievous Puck originate from folklore and long predate that play. So while there are similarities due to the fact they're based on the same material, people shouldn't give it more significance than it has.

My guess is that this new element has been imbued into Guts DS, which might explain why he is able to swing his weapon with such ease.... or maybe Guts is just strong. :guts:

This is not the case. Guts is just very strong. Remember that he could swing the Dragon Slayer long before it was imbued with "evil power".

No offense taken. I guess my point was that we already know enough about how Piskies fly so the new explanation of how Fae do things seems redundant or is answering a question know one is asking. Which to me says it will be important down the road, or else why introduce it in so specific a way. Perhaps they'll use it to get over Falconia's walls in several volumes. Maybe a weigh down flying enemies. Who knows? but I'm sure it's more than window dressing.

It's an absolute certainty that this new element will be of key importance in the story. But you're mistaken about what Ged explains. He's not saying it helps elves do things, but that elves don't really go along with it, and so it's sparser in Elfhelm. That's just an aside to him explaining how gravity works in the world of Berserk, and what other properties this element has.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: favole on August 25, 2016, 10:35:09 AM
Hello everyone, I'm new here :) Let me know if I have to change a few things whenever I post something.

First of all, thank you for the summary and I have to admit this episode was a nice surprise in regards to the pacing, as well as the impressive art! I wasn't expecting them to meet Hanafubuku that fast either, although on the subject of Danann, I'm wondering if the fact she had the notion of time when the archmages or the students apparently didn't was yet another hint to her identity (namely dinner, the fact she seemed to realize Puck had been gone for a long time and, besides Gedfryn, it seems she was the only one and Gedfryn did say the sovereign had had an oracle about Puck).

I wonder what the purpose of Magnifico is in general aside being comedy relief ( and a poor one on top of that )

I agree that he is probably there mostly for comic relief but considering he's also the son of Federico do Vandimion who is one of the most influential men of the series... maybe he could have a different role in the future, if just to testify of what he saw as a way to corroborate what Farnese could say, in case they need their father's help. It's very far in the future though, and I really doubt he will have any other role while they're on Elfhelm.

That is an interesting thought, but I think it's slightly different. Basically I don't think Griffith's Od could possibly be close to that of an elf (due to its inherent nature, and the fact it makes the Brand bleed, etc.). So to me the fact the boy's own Od differs and is gentle must have another explanation... Like maybe it's his own power and not Griffith's (Femto's), or something like that.

But while we're on the topic, I do think the new element we just learned of plays a key role in Griffith's otherworldly charisma.

Sorry I know this isn't the topic, but isn't it possible that Griffith's Od is just inherently evil anyway because of the fact he is Femto? Since the boy isn't producing any kind of reaction from the brand when he's close by while Griffith did, I would have thought their powers and Ods don't really have to do with each other (although since he is so powerful, maybe he did borrow some of Griffith's power, if we're assuming he is the demon infant that is).
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: BiQ-- on August 25, 2016, 11:48:02 AM
Thank you kindly, Aazealh and Puella for providing information yet again!

We are finally here, and I can barely contain myself!

I wonder if she knows a certain armoured skeleton.

...I'd say it's nearly certain everyone who's even a little bit higher-up on Elfhelm at least knows of him. Personally though? Hmm. Likely.

Quote
I hope they get to curing Casca as soon as possible, without any last minute quests dropped on them. Is likely she will regain her mind, but I also wonder if the queen can remove the brands as well, something will have to happen since the talismans negating the brands power have a finite lifespan.

As much as I wish for her to regain her sanity, I also think it will not be straightforward for her. I'm afraid that her psyche will force itself into amnesia at least. About the brands... Somehow I don't think there is anyone, or any force in the whole world of Berserk able to "remove" the brand completely. Not even the leader of Elfhelm. The brand goes all the way to the soul, condemning its victim into interstice. Well, maybe it's too hasty to say it's impossible, but I wouldn't be surprised in the least if that was the case. They will just have to redo the talismans from time to time.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Feeblecursedone on August 25, 2016, 11:56:59 AM
Quote
Wonder if all Guts' crew will get their own personal unicorn to ride into battle with :guts: Guts charging into Falconia on a unicorn. Can't be any more threatening than that.

Er, Unicorns are not exactly symbols of power or battle... Guts would have to have a black horse ( with red glowing eyes :D ) to suit his style.

Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Walter on August 25, 2016, 01:58:09 PM
Aside from the grand reveal of the Sovereign of the Flower Storm, I was most intrigued by Ged and Schierke talking about the "weight" element. Like Aaz said in the summary, it sounds like Miura is introducing a subatomic explanation for his universe. This new element could explain the compositional difference between the corporeal and astral worlds.

Hello everyone, I'm new here :) Let me know if I have to change a few things whenever I post something.

Welcome! Note a few corrections to terms and names below:

Quote
I wasn't expecting them to meet Hanafubuku that fast either

Hanafubuku is an untranslated title that means Flower Storm. I couldn't tell you why Dark Horse's translation chose to leave it merely romanized instead of actually localizing the term (which is, ya know, their job). We've known since Vol 28 that the title implied the Sovereign of the Flower Storm had some association with cherry blossoms, which was confirmed a few episodes ago, and absolutely confirmed in this episode. Meanwhile, Hanafubuku may as well be Pupupupupupupu in English.

Quote
I'm wondering if the fact she had the notion of time when the archmages

That's a made up term. A more direct translation is guru.

Quote
I agree that he is probably there mostly for comic relief but considering he's also the son of Federico do Vandimion who is one of the most influential men of the series... maybe he could have a different role in the future, if just to testify of what he saw as a way to corroborate what Farnese could say, in case they need their father's help. It's very far in the future though, and I really doubt he will have any other role while they're on Elfhelm.

*Federico de Vandimion.

I'm sure Miura won't just write Magnifico off, but I think people (not just you) are overlooking what's probably the real reason that Miura chose to bring him along: He's the most worldly human in the most otherworldly environment on the planet. It creates hilarious contrasts and scenarios.

Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: favole on August 25, 2016, 02:49:16 PM
Welcome! Note a few corrections to terms and names below:

- Hanafubuku is an untranslated title that means Flower Storm. I couldn't tell you why Dark Horse's translation chose to leave it merely romanized instead of actually localizing the term (which is, ya know, their job). We've known since Vol 28 that the title implied the Sovereign of the Flower Storm had some association with cherry blossoms, which was confirmed a few episodes ago, and absolutely confirmed in this episode. Meanwhile, Hanafubuku may as well be Pupupupupupupu in English.

- That's a made up term. A more direct translation is guru.

- *Federico de Vandimion.

- I'm sure Miura won't just write Magnifico off, but I think people (not just you) are overlooking what's probably the real reason that Miura chose to bring him along: He's the most worldly human in the most otherworldly environment on the planet. It creates hilarious contrasts and scenarios.

Duly noted. Thanks!

...I'd say it's nearly certain everyone who's even a little bit higher-up on Elfhelm at least knows of him. Personally though? Hmm. Likely.

I agree about the Skull Knight. I believe it was at the end of volume 18 that Puck encountered him with Guts and thought that he "kinda felt like an elf" even if he didn't say it out loud.  So this would be likely in my opinion, aside from the fact he knew Flora who was a powerful witch.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: ApostleBob on August 25, 2016, 03:58:15 PM
It's an absolute certainty that this new element will be of key importance in the story. But you're mistaken about what Ged explains. He's not saying it helps elves do things, but that elves don't really go along with it, and so it's sparser in Elfhelm. That's just an aside to him explaining how gravity works in the world of Berserk, and what other properties this element has.

Gotcha. Thanks for clarifying
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Aazealh on August 25, 2016, 04:24:00 PM
on the subject of Danann, I'm wondering if the fact she had the notion of time when the archmages or the students apparently didn't was yet another hint to her identity (namely dinner, the fact she seemed to realize Puck had been gone for a long time

There is no reason to believe "Danan" is written any other way than straight up "Danan" right now. That aside, everyone knew Puck had been gone for a while, as is made clear in the dialogue they all have with him. As for the guru who pretends he doesn't remember that he just ate, it's a joke to establish the fact he's a glutton. So the answer to your question is that no, it wasn't a hint.

Sorry I know this isn't the topic, but isn't it possible that Griffith's Od is just inherently evil anyway because of the fact he is Femto? Since the boy isn't producing any kind of reaction from the brand when he's close by while Griffith did, I would have thought their powers and Ods don't really have to do with each other (although since he is so powerful, maybe he did borrow some of Griffith's power, if we're assuming he is the demon infant that is).

That's... what I just said in the paragraph you're quoting. And yes, the reason the nature of the boy and Griffith's relation is unclear is because they share a body.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: DANGERDOOOOM on August 25, 2016, 06:51:56 PM
Er, Unicorns are not exactly symbols of power or battle... Guts would have to have a black horse ( with red glowing eyes :D ) to suit his style.

Yeah, I know it was a far fetched idea.  :ganishka:
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Griffith on August 25, 2016, 06:53:09 PM
I knew I shouldn't have tried to show off using jargon and quit while I was ahead! I didn't really mean Griffith's and Danan's ods would feel similar in nature but that it would be interesting if whatever it is about Griffith and the Boy that causes the latter's manifestation and/or projection was similar to a trait or ability of Danan's that Schierke thought she recognized. I'm assuming Schierke would recognize Griffith's od since she presumably felt it through that bird, so like Aaz said the Boy's is probably unique.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: MrFlibble on August 25, 2016, 08:38:46 PM
Thank you kindly, Aazealh and Puella for providing information yet again!

As much as I wish for her to regain her sanity, I also think it will not be straightforward for her. I'm afraid that her psyche will force itself into amnesia at least. About the brands... Somehow I don't think there is anyone, or any force in the whole world of Berserk able to "remove" the brand completely. Not even the leader of Elfhelm. The brand goes all the way to the soul, condemning its victim into interstice. Well, maybe it's too hasty to say it's impossible, but I wouldn't be surprised in the least if that was the case. They will just have to redo the talismans from time to time.


I'm not expecting Elf queen to snap her fingers and bring Cascas sanity back, it will likely be a difficult process that involves Casca willing herself back into consciousness. Without any protection from the brand Casca and Guts have nowhere safe to live apart from Elfhelm. And even then they are condemned to the vortex of souls, hardly a happy ending.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Jaze1618 on August 25, 2016, 08:50:40 PM
I knew I shouldn't have tried to show off using jargon and quit while I was ahead! I didn't really mean Griffith's and Danan's ods would feel similar in nature but that it would be interesting if whatever it is about Griffith and the Boy that causes the latter's manifestation and/or projection was similar to a trait or ability of Danan's that Schierke thought she recognized. I'm assuming Schierke would recognize Griffith's od since she presumably felt it through that bird, so like Aaz said the Boy's is probably unique.

I personally find that the final page in this episode draws an especially striking resemblance to the final page in episode 175.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Griffith on August 25, 2016, 09:12:45 PM
I personally find that the final page in this episode draws an especially striking resemblance to the final page in episode 175.

That was my first thought upon seeing it, but there have been similar shots featuring Griffith and others since; it's when I saw her hair when I really considered the similarities beyond that. Still not much to go on though I should add, but it's a fun thought.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Jaze1618 on August 25, 2016, 09:48:08 PM
That was my first thought upon seeing it, but there have been similar shots featuring Griffith and others since; it's when I saw her hair when I really considered the similarities beyond that. Still not much to go on though I should add, but it's a fun thought.

I think the thing that sticks out the most is the similar slender display of neck and cheek bones. No other image from the series springs to mind as matching that particular style other than the one from this episode and the one episode 175. Wish I had a screenshot I could link to for any other interested readers.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Delta Phi on August 25, 2016, 09:54:16 PM
LiveAnotherDave over on Reddit made a nice Imgur album of some of the new creatures introduced in this episode and historical art that bear resemblances to them. I thought y'all might be interested in taking a look. Check it out here! (http://imgur.com/a/Ram6g)
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Kaladin on August 25, 2016, 10:08:46 PM
LiveAnotherDave over on Reddit made a nice Imgur album of some of the new creatures introduced in this episode and historical art that bear resemblances to them. I thought y'all might be interested in taking a look. Check it out here! (http://imgur.com/a/Ram6g)

the young fauns looks so awesome, in volume 7 we see a statue of one striking a similar pose to the one in that imgur link which is pretty cool.
(http://i.imgur.com/A4HHjKb.png)
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: favole on August 25, 2016, 10:11:00 PM

I'm not expecting Elf queen to snap her fingers and bring Cascas sanity back, it will likely be a difficult process that involves Casca willing herself back into consciousness.

I agree. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Cucca in episode 344 slightly explained the process having to do with a "corridor of dreams" so I would not be surprised if several episodes were dedicated to this, with a long look into Casca's head and how she feels about everything that happened ever since the eclipse (or even slightly before).

LiveAnotherDave over on Reddit made a nice Imgur album of some of the new creatures introduced in this episode and historical art that bear resemblances to them. I thought y'all might be interested in taking a look. Check it out here! (http://imgur.com/a/Ram6g)

Thank you for the link, it's very interesting.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: DANGERDOOOOM on August 25, 2016, 10:28:04 PM
LiveAnotherDave over on Reddit made a nice Imgur album of some of the new creatures introduced in this episode and historical art that bear resemblances to them. I thought y'all might be interested in taking a look. Check it out here! (http://imgur.com/a/Ram6g)

Wow, that was an amazing and well researched layout. Miura is truly amazing.

Should have known Treebeard and the Ents would be living on Elfhelm.

Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Griffith on August 25, 2016, 11:10:08 PM
I think the thing that sticks out the most is the similar slender display of neck and cheek bones. No other image from the series springs to mind as matching that particular style other than the one from this episode and the one episode 175. Wish I had a screenshot I could link to for any other interested readers.

Here. (http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/berserk/images/d/db/GriffithNewFace.png/revision/latest?cb=20150326222658) But there are other examples, such as Farnese at the conclusion to episode 261, or Sonja at the end of episode 299. They're not exactly the same as that Griffith shot, but neither is this, and I think the common purpose behind all of them is to punctuate the end of an episode with a significant character and moment.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Proj2501 on August 26, 2016, 12:02:59 AM
Incredible. Absolutely incredible. 346 left me in total awe. I've never smiled so much reading an episode. At least not for a LONG time. Puck's whole King troll was everything.  :troll:
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: zrexe on August 26, 2016, 12:55:23 AM

This is not the case. Guts is just very strong. Remember that he could swing the Dragon Slayer long before it was imbued with "evil power".


You are right. What if it was the other way round instead, and the new elements actually got imbued into the blade over the course  of the story which allowed Guts to, for the lack of a better word, "warp the reality" around the blade, such that it can hurt beings like the Godhand.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: DANGERDOOOOM on August 26, 2016, 02:22:00 AM
You are right. What if it was the other way round instead, and the new elements actually got imbued into the blade over the course  of the story which allowed Guts to, for the lack of a better word, "warp the reality" around the blade, such that it can hurt beings like the Godhand.

Think we need to find out more about this new binding element before jumping to Guts warping reality with his sword. All we know is that his sword has the ability to damage entities out of the physical realm because of it constantly being covered in the remnants of astral beings. If Guts were to be able to hurt the God Hand, his main issue would be how to even touch them without being blown away or instantly killed.

This element does bring in a lot more to the table though. Hope we hear more explanations in the near future.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Vixen Comics on August 26, 2016, 03:21:25 AM
this may be a long shot, but I wonder if this new element has anything to do with affecting the time flow around elfhelm? Maybe it also contributes to the slower time flow between elfhelm and the outside world.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Aazealh on August 26, 2016, 04:14:25 AM
You are right. What if it was the other way round instead, and the new elements actually got imbued into the blade over the course  of the story which allowed Guts to, for the lack of a better word, "warp the reality" around the blade, such that it can hurt beings like the Godhand.

We already know what happened with the Dragon Slayer. We've known since volume 24. It does not involve "warping reality", nor is it very likely to involve this new element.
There is however a chance that this element could be linked to the evil power that the Idea of Evil, the God Hand and the apostles make use of. But it's a bit early to make such connections.

this may be a long shot, but I wonder if this new element has anything to do with affecting the time flow around elfhelm? Maybe it also contributes to the slower time flow between elfhelm and the outside world.

It is a possibility, although:

1) Ged does not mention it.
2) The gravitational effects felt in Elfhelm are local and do not apply to the entire island of Skellig.
3) In our world, the way time dilation works is that time passes more slowly the closer you get to a strong gravitational source, whereas here time passes more slowly on Skellig (though Miura is obviously free to make things work as he sees fit in this fictional world).
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Irvine on August 26, 2016, 05:00:50 AM
1. HOLY SHIT  :ubik:

2. Could it be that Miura knows about the art of Brian Froud? Because some creatures look suspiciously similar.

(http://fs5.directupload.net/images/160826/blaw66jp.jpg)
(http://fs5.directupload.net/images/160826/5ihtr4xz.jpg)
(http://fs5.directupload.net/images/160826/gaa37bmo.jpg)
(http://fs5.directupload.net/images/160826/cxirxlvl.jpg)
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Aazealh on August 26, 2016, 05:29:11 AM
2. Could it be that Miura knows about the art of Brian Froud? Because some creatures look suspiciously similar.

Those creatures have been described and illustrated in folklore for centuries (see the link Delta Phi posted, and even that's not going very far back in time compared to what exists). There's only so many ways to represent them (pointy hats, pointy ears, lanky bodies with funny proportions, big noses, etc.), and Miura likes to stick close to the original for these things, so it's really no surprise there would be similarities. Especially considering Brian Froud has been drawing faeries almost exclusively for over 35 years.

To give you an example, the first picture you posted also looks similar to a Smurf. And that's because Smurfs (created in 1958) were also directly inspired by traditional folkoric descriptions. All artwork based on folklore will inevitably bear similarities. Just like a knight generally looks like others knights. You get the idea. That being said, I imagine Miura has probably at least heard of Brian Froud, given his prominence in the modern faery illustration scene. I would not be very surprised if I were told that he owns a copy of Faeries.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Aazealh on August 26, 2016, 07:38:38 AM
Ok so for reference the element of weight is called "Barytes" (in Japanese: "バリュテース"). It's from the Greek word "βαρύτης", itself derived from "βαρύς", which means "heavy".

In real life, it's a mineral (commonly called "baryte" or "barite" in English) that is the main source of barium in the world. But more interestingly for us, it used to be a big deal in the alchemical world when it was discovered that a certain type of it can glow in the dark. They used to call them Bologna Stones, because the first one was found near Bologna in Italy. Anyway, this has no direct bearing on Berserk's own world but it's where Miura got the name.

Please note that it is not pronounced like the English word "baryte", as Miura based it on the original Greek word (same thing than for the "Idea" in "Idea of Evil"). To an English speaker, it should sound like "ba-ree-tess".
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: slowishturtle on August 26, 2016, 09:00:39 AM
Truly an amazing episode! Happy too see Miura back at work again. Soon we'll see what happens with Casca! Aaah! I'm very excited.  :???:
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Rhombaad on August 26, 2016, 12:11:01 PM
Ok so for reference the element of weight is called "Barytes" (in Japanese: "バリュテース"). It's from the Greek word "βαρύτης", itself derived from "βαρύς", which means "heavy".

In real life, it's a mineral (commonly called "baryte" or "barite" in English) that is the main source of barium in the world. But more interestingly for us, it used to be a big deal in the alchemical world when it was discovered that a certain type of it can glow in the dark. They used to call them Bologna Stones, because the first one was found near Bologna in Italy. Anyway, this has no direct bearing on Berserk's own world but it's where Miura got the name.

Please note that it is not pronounced like the English word "baryte", as Miura based it on the original Greek word (same thing than for the "Idea" in "Idea of Evil"). To an English speaker, it should sound like "ba-ree-tess".

Thanks for the explanation, Aaz!
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: ApostleBob on August 26, 2016, 02:15:28 PM
Thanks Aaz!
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Vixen Comics on August 26, 2016, 07:25:47 PM
Truly an amazing episode! Happy too see Miura back at work again. Soon we'll see what happens with Casca! Aaah! I'm very excited.  :???:

I can't wait to see what is in Casca's mind when the Sovereign of the Flower storm delves into it. All this time I have wondered about the mechanics of Casca's  mental state. If she is regressed simply to toddlerhood where she had no pain and responsibilities? Or has her conscientiousness created this dream state where she is back with the band of the Falcon in her old role where she was happiest. I wonder what that would mean if Guts sees her in that state if she has created something like that. I imagine he would not be happy.

I know there has been speculation on here that Guts or even Farnese would play a role in helping the elf queen heal Casca, but I can't help but think it would just involve just Casca and the elf queen. Healing someones mind seems like such an intimate thing I would think it would be done privately with one else involved but the person in question.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Feeblecursedone on August 26, 2016, 07:46:36 PM
Quote
I can't wait to see what is in Casca's mind when the Sovereign of the Flower storm delves into it. All this time I have wondered about the mechanics of Casca's  mental state. If she is regressed simply to toddlerhood where she had no pain and responsibilities? Or has her conscientiousness created this dream state where she is back with the band of the Falcon in her old role where she was happiest. I wonder what that would mean if Guts sees her in that state if she has created something like that. I imagine he would not be happy.

I dont think it'll be easy for him. We can guess Casca's trauma blocked off a large part of her consciousness to prevent total mind collapse so the Elf Queen will have to help her face those fears and events that happened in the Eclipse. Perhaps when her mind projects flashing images of the rape and other horrors, the Elf Queen will project images of happiness and of those who love her like Guts, and a happier future.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Aul on August 27, 2016, 11:56:08 PM
Maybe this fifth element has something to do with how Femto's powers work.  :femto:

wow nice observation!!

Do you think each of the five of the God Hand controls an Element and Femto's is Gravity? That would make a lot of sense!

In that case which element goes to who? Maybe Ubik has Wind because he is flying. And maybe Slan has Earth because she came from ground in fight with Guts.

Or maybe all these are coincidences   :ganishka:

Please note that it is not pronounced like the English word "baryte", as Miura based it on the original Greek word (same thing than for the "Idea" in "Idea of Evil"). To an English speaker, it should sound like "ba-ree-tess".

Is the "Idea" in "Idea of Evil" from the word "ιδέα" and are they pronounced alike?
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Walter on August 28, 2016, 02:05:47 AM
Do you think each of the five of the God Hand controls an Element and Femto's is Gravity? That would make a lot of sense!

Zero percent chance. Elements are associated with the natural world. The God Hand's power comes from a different source, the Idea of Evil, which is itself an artificial force in the universe, compared to the natural forces.

Quote
Is the "Idea" in "Idea of Evil" from the word "ιδέα" and are they pronounced alike?

Yes, that's what Aazealh was saying.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Aazealh on August 28, 2016, 07:49:29 AM
Do you think each of the five of the God Hand controls an Element and Femto's is Gravity? That would make a lot of sense!

Nope.

In that case which element goes to who? Maybe Ubik has Wind because he is flying. And maybe Slan has Earth because she came from ground in fight with Guts.

Nah.

Is the "Idea" in "Idea of Evil" from the word "ιδέα" and are they pronounced alike?

Yes.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Uriel on August 28, 2016, 12:45:41 PM
Miura's Comment this week:

Quote
I went to the "Chica Umino's World" event. So beautiful... (*ω`*) I was also surprised at the breadth of attendees!

He is referring to this exhibition/event (http://3lion.younganimal.com/sekaiten/) for the creator of March Comes In Like a Lion. You guys probably remember her various contributions to the Miura's work.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Walter on August 29, 2016, 02:21:17 AM
(http://skullknight.net/podcast/podcast78.jpg) (http://skullknight.net/podcast/Podcast78.mp3)
Episode 78: Elfhelm (Ep. 346) (http://skullknight.net/podcast/Podcast78.mp3) (1h 14m)

We've finally made it to Elfhelm proper, meeting a character we've been anticipating for more than a decade. Hear our thoughts on this grand reveal, and another huge revelation about the Berserk world. 
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: persiandud on August 29, 2016, 08:05:39 AM
Hello everyone, this is my first post (I think) despite the fact that I signed up to this forum 5 years ago lmao

Berserk is easily my favorite manga. 10 years ago Berserk and Elfen Lied helped me transition into reading more seinen, although you can hardly compare the two series in terms of quality.

Anyway, the new episode! Wow. Just wow. Incredible artwork by Miura, per usual. Always impressed by how much detail he can fit into a panel. Many thanks to the Imgur post on possible influences, Aazealh and Walter for their scholarly knowledge, and Paz for her translation.

To fuel some speculation, I posit a few questions

1. How long until everything in Skellig goes to shit? I'm sure many of us have hypothesized that Griffith and his considerable forces could soon make Skellig a priority (if they hadn't already). 5 chapters? 10? Personally, I'm digging this tonal shift from what we have come to recognize as a very dark series; this is some very important world-building Miura is doing at the moment and I feel like some of our fanbase (not you guys, mostly Reddit) are not appreciating these serene moments and how much exposition we are getting. It's blowing my mind, yo

2. What is the worst case scenario for Casca right now? Best case if she's healed obviously, embraces Guts in a tender moment (I'd cry so hard), and takes her revenge on Griffith. But Miura has a good knack for throwing us curveballs in the plot. How do you all think this shakes out? Will the Sovereign of the Flower Storm ask Guts for something? Will Casca resist the restoration of her mind? I can't wait for next month's release!
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: luke71 on August 29, 2016, 12:00:43 PM
hi and good morning to everyone.
 I'm Italian, i'm sorry for my bad English .
i have see that there isn't morda , do you think could become an enemy?

the Guts/puk's bejelit in which episode  did it appeared?

Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Rhombaad on August 29, 2016, 01:37:59 PM
hi and good morning to everyone.
 I'm Italian, i'm sorry for my bad English .
i have see that there isn't morda , do you think could become an enemy?

Nah, I don't think so. I imagine she'll be accompanying the group to Falconia at some point, but it's hard to know for sure at this point.

Quote
the Guts/puk's bejelit in which episode  did it appeared?

It appeared at the end of the first Desire's Guardian Angels episode in volume one.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Squiddot on August 29, 2016, 02:21:51 PM
1. How long until everything in Skellig goes to shit? I'm sure many of us have hypothesized that Griffith and his considerable forces could soon make Skellig a priority (if they hadn't already). 5 chapters? 10?

Wow! Pessimist much? :ganishka: A big all out assault would be a dramatic end for the Elfhelm journey. But the pace of the group has already been set by the time distortion they introduced back when they first arrived. It might be that for once the group actually gets to leave on their own terms. Though I won't rule out an invasion, but not before the group has had time to both heal Casca and spend some time unravelling the dozens of character arcs that will stem from that event. I'd say just enjoy the ride for now. There's enough awesome stuff going on without apostles ripping things apart.

(I agree with what you said about people not appreciating the tonal shift. I just try to remember that a lot of these comments come from somebody just taking those 20 pages in without even thinking about the bigger picture. If Miura dares draw 5 episodes dealing with an upbeat theme then they'll claim he's forgone violence entirely. And even this most groundbreaking of episodes had people on reddit and 4chan claiming that "nothing happened".)

2. What is the worst case scenario for Casca right now? Best case if she's healed obviously, embraces Guts in a tender moment (I'd cry so hard), and takes her revenge on Griffith. But Miura has a good knack for throwing us curveballs in the plot. How do you all think this shakes out? Will the Sovereign of the Flower Storm ask Guts for something? Will Casca resist the restoration of her mind? I can't wait for next month's release!

I think at this point Miura has to give this to us straight. Simply too much time and effort has been invested to lead to anything less than Casca being healed. True Miura has twisted expectations in the past but having something like Casca resisting her healing would simply be an audience betrayal. Especially, for the current fans who have been waiting for her return for so long. It wouldn't be clever. Future readers would watch Guts fight through Qliphoth, Vritannis and the Sea God knowing that the end result would be for nothing (And if you're thinking it, what Miura pulled during the Golden Age was fundamentally different).

Plus having her cured and back as an active character drives the development of everybody much further than having her remain in the current state. It will be a new chapter in Farnese and Schierke's attachment towards Guts. If she's still as much of a fighter as she was before, it opens a whole new avenue of training for Isidro. To say nothing of the development of Guts and the growing Beast.

As far as the Sovereign making requests the most I can think of would be Guts himself, as in the ritual required his presence. The fact that the means of restoring Casca's mind was described as utilising a "Corridor of Dreams" in the previous episodes makes it sounds like it won't be a "collect 10 magic berries for the potion" situation.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Walter on August 29, 2016, 03:02:53 PM
Many thanks to the Imgur post on possible influences, Aazealh and Walter for their scholarly knowledge, and Paz for her translation.

Who...?

Quote
1. How long until everything in Skellig goes to shit? I'm sure many of us have hypothesized that Griffith and his considerable forces could soon make Skellig a priority (if they hadn't already). 5 chapters? 10?

5 chapters would be a LOT. I'm not sure there will be 5 more chapters for the rest of the series. Maybe 2 or 3, tops. Or did you mean episodes? 

Anyway, I don't think it's a foregone conclusion there will be an attack on Elfhelm by Falconian forces. Why should they? While Griffith and the apostles did go on a campaign across the world to torch spiritual trees, that was (as far as we know) to bring about the Blast of the Astral World, which was already successful. So, we don't know that Griffith needs to destroy more trees.  I'm certainly not ruling it out, but so far there hasn't been a very strong reason for Griffith to launch an overseas campaign.

Quote
I feel like some of our fanbase (not you guys, mostly Reddit) are not appreciating these serene moments and how much exposition we are getting

Speaking from experience, there have always been and will always be naysayers who can't see the forest for the trees. Berserk's Armor? Lame, "it's like Power Rangers now." Exploring Vritannis? "How are they not on the ship yet?!" En route to Skellig? "How are they not off the ship yet?!" And on and on it goes, and it will never end. It's not worth chronicling or paying much attention to.

Quote
2. What is the worst case scenario for Casca right now? Best case if she's healed obviously, embraces Guts in a tender moment (I'd cry so hard), and takes her revenge on Griffith. But Miura has a good knack for throwing us curveballs in the plot. How do you all think this shakes out? Will the Sovereign of the Flower Storm ask Guts for something? Will Casca resist the restoration of her mind? I can't wait for next month's release!

I think she will ultimately be restored, but that the process will be traumatic for her, because she doesn't want to live in this world, as things are. But with time, and with help from Guts, she will learn to cope with it, and because of their son, she will have a valid reason to venture to the continent and rescue him.

And even this most groundbreaking of episodes had people on reddit and 4chan claiming that "nothing happened".)

I shouldn't be surprised, but this is literally insane to me. Aside from Fantasia and Falconia, this is the biggest reveal in a decade.

I'd like to direct such people to this image I drew (http://www.skullknight.net/images/griffscream.jpg), just so they can get their fill and move on with their lives.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: RaffoBaffo on August 29, 2016, 03:30:34 PM
hi and good morning to everyone.
 I'm Italian, i'm sorry for my bad English .
i have see that there isn't morda , do you think could become an enemy?

the Guts/puk's bejelit in which episode  did it appeared?
Benvenuto  :serpico:
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Aazealh on August 29, 2016, 05:10:43 PM
I feel like some of our fanbase (not you guys, mostly Reddit) are not appreciating these serene moments and how much exposition we are getting.
(I agree with what you said about people not appreciating the tonal shift. [...] And even this most groundbreaking of episodes had people on reddit and 4chan claiming that "nothing happened".)

Sorry for being blunt but who gives a shit what a bunch of idiots think? Like Walter said, stupid comments have been around since the very beginning. They'll always be there, even for the final episode of the series. Giving them any thought or even reading them in the first place is simply more than they deserve. You're free to waste your time sifting through garbage of course, but I assure you (and that goes for every member here), there's no need to tell us about it.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Salem on August 29, 2016, 05:50:33 PM
(not you guys, mostly Reddit)

Reddit  :mozgus: is the cesspool of the internet.  I tried that community, but I found myself being pulled into the theatrical lunacy as well.  Serious posts are randomly not, the same as the opposite.  Truly cannot comprehend ever going there again.  If there was a form of venereal disease acquired by being online, that site is it. 

On here you never have to worry about that crap.  On here that doesn't exist and in terms of perspective Heaven would be where you're reading right this moment and hell would be Reddit.  The middle ground would be somewhere on facebook in the communities, but even there trouble awaits.

To top that off, we are mere moments away from looking into the sunset here.  We made it, we met the queen and if Casca is cured in a manner of episodes, what is left but the end being in sight, or certainly the last arc or two?  Saying nothing is happening means casuals of berserk manga, not fans in any reasonable regard are waiting for the next time Guts cuts someone down to get any notable moment in their brains to say wow, Berserk is so badass. 
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: DarkAdin on August 29, 2016, 06:02:03 PM

1. How long until everything in Skellig goes to shit? I'm sure many of us have hypothesized that Griffith and his considerable forces could soon make Skellig a priority (if they hadn't already). 5 chapters? 10? Personally, I'm digging this tonal shift from what we have come to recognize as a very dark series; this is some very important world-building Miura is doing at the moment and I feel like some of our fanbase (not you guys, mostly Reddit) are not appreciating these serene moments and how much exposition we are getting. It's blowing my mind, yo

2. What is the worst case scenario for Casca right now? Best case if she's healed obviously, embraces Guts in a tender moment (I'd cry so hard), and takes her revenge on Griffith. But Miura has a good knack for throwing us curveballs in the plot. How do you all think this shakes out? Will the Sovereign of the Flower Storm ask Guts for something? Will Casca resist the restoration of her mind? I can't wait for next month's release!
1. I think they have already considered attacking the island, if they are clever. But the power of Elfhelm is something you can't even sneeze on. They took their chances attacking Flora's forest, even with the group inside, and won. But Elfhelm and Skellig as a whole is something at a new level. They could try, though. The outcome would be something beyond our imagination, but something is clear: if Skellig (and thus Elfhelm) goes to shit, it means that the last known bastion against evil is out of the game. That would kill all the faith the protagonists could have, and so us readers. I see Skellig and Elfhelm as the last card to flip against the God Hand.

2.Yes, I too see Casca's restoration to take it's curved way. It's not going to be from A to B, and as Skully said, she might not want it; man, we could even say she's happy now, even with supressed memories. Maybe Guts will have to help the Sovereign, as he is a familiar figure upon which to start the process (since Griffith is now... Well, not available). Or maybe it all goes smoothly, but it doesn't end there. Maybe her mind needs some time (and I mean TIME) to put things on their place again, slowly, and maybe having her to rest at Elfhelm. Which could sound good, but if you're the conspiranoic type, 1. will pop up in your mind. Attacking Elfhelm while Casca is in therapy, while the group is too far? That would be...

You wanted speculation, friend...  :carcus: But no, the less probable thing here is the attack on Elfhelm. Not now, at least. We've been waiting YEARS for this moment. Something has to come out of this, something really good. The hype is huge :casca:

I wil add my part here now that I'm at it:

3. Will this new element be good to fight evil? (fight fire with fire) The series is called Berserk, so, if we suppose going Berserker will do something against evil in the end, then it means that Guts, filled with all these bad emotions this new element represents, will have a chance to win with it. I am supposing a Berserker warrior is filled with this kind of feelings.
If it's not good against evil, then Guts will need also some therapy, because he seems filled with bad emotions, too. All serious and vengeful.
Perhaps here Casca's restoration might have a good effect on him, unburdening him a little.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Aazealh on August 29, 2016, 06:23:43 PM
Maybe Guts will have to help the Sovereign, as he is a familiar figure upon which to start the process (since Griffith is now... Well, not available).

Oh yeah it's too fucking bad Griffith, the one who raped Casca, isn't available to help her get over what he did to her. :schierke:

Guts, filled with all these bad emotions this new element represents, will have a chance to win with it. I am supposing a Berserker warrior is filled with this kind of feelings.

I'd like to stress again to everyone that the description we've been given of Barytes is very vague for now. We do not know yet whether they're associated with all kinds of negative feelings or not. So I would caution against talking like it's set in stone, in order to avoid confusion.

If it's not good against evil, then Guts will need also some therapy, because he seems filled with bad emotions, too. All serious and vengeful.
Perhaps here Casca's restoration might have a good effect on him, unburdening him a little.

Guts definitely needs therapy, and I'm certain Casca's restoration will help with that eventually.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Feeblecursedone on August 29, 2016, 06:31:40 PM
I don't mind seeing Guts undergo terapy, as long as it doesn't mean complete loss of Beast of Darkness. Its just way too cool and badass. Rather I'd see Guts put it under complete control and go from an uncontrollable berserker to a calculating berserker. And whatever dwarves/elves have in store for him.

Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: MrFlibble on August 29, 2016, 06:37:42 PM

1. How long until everything in Skellig goes to shit? I'm sure many of us have hypothesized that Griffith and his considerable forces could soon make Skellig a priority (if they hadn't already). 5 chapters? 10? Personally, I'm digging this tonal shift from what we have come to recognize as a very dark series; this is some very important world-building Miura is doing at the moment and I feel like some of our fanbase (not you guys, mostly Reddit) are not appreciating these serene moments and how much exposition we are getting. It's blowing my mind, yo

2. What is the worst case scenario for Casca right now? Best case if she's healed obviously, embraces Guts in a tender moment (I'd cry so hard), and takes her revenge on Griffith. But Miura has a good knack for throwing us curveballs in the plot. How do you all think this shakes out? Will the Sovereign of the Flower Storm ask Guts for something? Will Casca resist the restoration of her mind? I can't wait for next month's release!

1.The opportune time to invade Elfhelm has probably passed now that Griffith and his demon army are under siege from monsters, and I think it would be repetitive to have the same thing happen twice. Elfhelm is too far from Griffiths reach. If Griffith considered one dying witch a priority over Ganishka, I dread to think the damage several guru mages and an Elf Queen revered by SK himself would do to apostles.

The Reddit/4chan audience have short attention spans, not all of them, but a lot of them don't think of the overall story, they flick through individual episodes that don't have a lot of action at the moment, and just assume Berserk is getting boring.  :schierke:

2. Worst Case scenario, Casca rejects being cured, or commits suicide, not that I believe it will happen. And if the game is anything to go by it certainly won't. I doubt Casca will want to take her revenge against Griffith, I think it's similar to how Rickert feels towards him, she can't hate him. Bear in mind she was in love with Griffith too, not as much as Guts (obviously). I'd like to see how Farnese will react to her when she regains her mind, will Casca become freinds with her former carer?
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: DANGERDOOOOM on August 29, 2016, 06:56:40 PM
We've finally made it to Elfhelm proper, meeting a character we've been anticipating for more than a decade. Hear our thoughts on this grand reveal, and another huge revelation about the Berserk world.

Thanks guys! Very interesting podcast :guts:

We're at such an interesting point in this series. It's very exciting.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Delta Phi on August 29, 2016, 07:36:35 PM
1.The opportune time to invade Elfhelm has probably passed now that Griffith and his demon army are under siege from monsters

That's not accurate. The wing stones repel the magical creatures. That's what allows people to farm the land around the city without incident. Now that his kingdom is established, it's certainly about time Griffith expanded his direct control...

Elfhelm is too far from Griffiths reach. If Griffith considered one dying witch a priority over Ganishka, I dread to think the damage several guru mages and an Elf Queen revered by SK himself would do to apostles.

We now know Griffith was after more than just Flora. He was destroying spiritual trees in preparation for the Blast of the Astral World. So presumably he needed to accomplish that before defeating Ganishka.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: DarkAdin on August 29, 2016, 08:47:52 PM
Oh yeah it's too fucking bad Griffith, the one who raped Casca, isn't available to help her get over what he did to her. :schierke:
That was Femto, wasn't it?  :schierke: Anyway, you're right. I should have said Rickert, even
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Aazealh on August 29, 2016, 09:15:59 PM
That was Femto, wasn't it?  :schierke:

Are you trying to argue that the current Griffith is not Femto? To defend the idea that Casca would benefit from his presence to get over her trauma?

Anyway, you're right. I should have said Rickert, even

You should have sticked to Guts.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: DarkAdin on August 29, 2016, 09:47:23 PM
Are you trying to argue that the current Griffith is not Femto? To defend the idea that Casca would benefit from his presence to get over her trauma?

You should have sticked to Guts.

Anyway, you're right.
No, I would never defend that idea. I'm not used to write such long posts and I slipped that sentence there while I was thinking in the old Griffith, which was not Femto. But I guess Griffith will never be a good figure to Casca anymore, not even the old, human Griffith, which will never come back at this point anyway.
So... That is what I meant.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Aazealh on August 29, 2016, 09:54:52 PM
But I guess Griffith will never be a good figure to Casca anymore, not even the old, human Griffith, which will never come back at this point anyway.
So... That is what I meant.

Ok, then we agree.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: persiandud on August 30, 2016, 05:42:53 AM
Who...?

Oh no! My mistake. Thank you to Puella for the translation. That's what I get for lurking in a forum  :ganishka:

I agree with everyone's response to my Reddit comment. I don't consider anyone a true fan of Berserk if they complain about what we've been getting recently. And at this point, anyone who complains is just plain stupid. This is the craziest shit to happen to this series in a long time. A momentous turning point years in the making.

I think I'd lean towards some type of bittersweet outcome for Casca. I'm sure this theory has been bandied about on this forum...but hypothetically, the Elf Queen confirms that she can indeed cure Casca, but her memory would have to be wiped completely, and thus she wouldn't remember Guts at all. This would be heart wrenching for our protagonists. Would Casca ever learn to love Guts again? Ultimately, I think I agree with what some have said about the unlikeliness of a negative outcome here. Casca has to be restored; Miura knows this. It would drive away too many fans. But then again, it'd be pretty hardcore and IDGAF of Miura to shatter everyone's hearts like that. The uncertainty is sure to kill me over the next month.  If I was a betting man, I'd say it's very unlikely she isn't restored, to say nothing of the price of this deed.

Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Aazealh on August 30, 2016, 06:52:04 AM
Ultimately, I think I agree with what some have said about the unlikeliness of a negative outcome here. Casca has to be restored; Miura knows this. It would drive away too many fans. But then again, it'd be pretty hardcore and IDGAF of Miura to shatter everyone's hearts like that.

That's not how it works. Miura's considerations are not whether a story development would drive fans away. He just does what he feels is right with the story. So he does in fact "not give a fuck" about what people think. But there's still no doubt Casca will be cured, because the other outcome would not make sense from a storytelling perspective. A journey that has taken 17 volumes just isn't going to end with "sorry, can't help you".
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: MrFlibble on August 30, 2016, 08:45:29 AM
That's not accurate. The wing stones repel the magical creatures. That's what allows people to farm the land around the city without incident. Now that his kingdom is established, it's certainly about time Griffith expanded his direct control...

We now know Griffith was after more than just Flora. He was destroying spiritual trees in preparation for the Blast of the Astral World. So presumably he needed to accomplish that before defeating Ganishka.

That's true, however he and his army still need to travel from Midland territory, across the sea to Elfhelm, through hordes of trolls, dragons, banshees, ogres, hydras etc. Its not ideal to exhaust your army before you've even reached your intended target. If he wanted Elfhelm destroyed, he should have done it by now.

That's true, and the big cherry blossom tree is the bonanza of spirit trees. Like Walter was saying maybe a God Hand will attack the island instead.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Mammon on August 30, 2016, 11:30:30 PM
This episode is wonderful. I'm seriously in awe...
I'm going to listen to that podcast now, thanks to Puella for the translation as usual!

Just one little observation:
Is this the rest of Irvine's former music band on page 7?  :???:
First panel on the bottom, the musician between Casca and Farnese looks a lot like this guy
>
(http://berserkstatues.com/skdotnet/aowrequests/irvine.jpg)
to me...

Irvine stated (episode 250) that he's wandered and lost track of time (well my Berserk collection is in French, not sure how they translated it in English...) and with Elfhelm and it's relation with time...
Could an apostle be from this island?

Meh, I'm most likely reading too much into this...

It was also nice to see these little guys (Brownies) again
(http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/berserk/images/6/68/Brownies.png/revision/latest?cb=20101001235810)
kicking out the passed out creatures in the throne room  :iva:
(http://fs5.directupload.net/images/160826/gaa37bmo.jpg)

Wonderful episode, after 10+ years of reading Berserk I can't believe Guts quest to help Casca might be over soon...
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Squiddot on August 31, 2016, 05:22:24 AM
Just one little observation:
Is this the rest of Irvine's former music band on page 7?  :???:

I noticed that uncanny similarity too  :guts:. Though the thought that went through my head is "Oh, Miura really wanted to draw Irvine. Wonder if we'll see him soon". Considering Miura warmed up his Guts skills with I think three distinct Guts Flashbacks as we were finishing up the Rickert in Falconia story-line.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Aazealh on August 31, 2016, 10:32:38 AM
Is this the rest of Irvine's former music band on page 7?  :???:
First panel on the bottom, the musician between Casca and Farnese looks a lot like this guy to me...
[...]
Could an apostle be from this island?
Meh, I'm most likely reading too much into this...

You definitely are reading too much into this. They have the same kind of hat (a type of medieval hunting hat), and... that's about it. Irvine plays a lute (an instrument where you pluck strings), while that nameless elf uses a kind of violin. Putting all of that aside, the likelihood that a human could have become an apostle on Skellig is very, very low. Not to mention that I have a feeling hunting animals isn't viewed kindly there either.

Irvine stated (episode 250) that he's wandered and lost track of time (well my Berserk collection is in French, not sure how they translated it in English...) and with Elfhelm and it's relation with time...

This takes place in episode 258, actually (the episodes' order changed between the pre-publication in Young Animal and the release of the volume). As for his dialogue, it is as follows:

Sonia: Hunters are always alone? Walking all by themselves through the mountains and forests?
Irvine: There are some who aren't, but I'm alone. I hunt by myself.
Irvine: For days you continue to hunt your prey, running through the wilderness.
Irvine: You hide alone deep in the forest.
Irvine: Night after night, until you lose any sense of time, and then...
Sonia: and then?
Irvine: ....before you know it, you have become an animal yourself.

Considering Miura warmed up his Guts skills with I think three distinct Guts Flashbacks as we were finishing up the Rickert in Falconia story-line.

I don't understand that sentence at all.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Squiddot on August 31, 2016, 11:05:05 AM
I don't understand that sentence at all.

What I mean is that after Miura returned from hiatus with Episode 338, he drew 3 flashbacks of Guts from 338-339, before having him appear proper in 342. I think on a least a minor level it gave Miura a chance to refresh himself on the character.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Aazealh on August 31, 2016, 11:23:23 AM
What I mean is that after Miura returned from hiatus with Episode 338, he drew 3 flashbacks of Guts from 338-339, before having him appear proper in 342. I think on a least a minor level it gave Miura a chance to refresh himself on the character.

Hahaha, I really don't think it works like that at all. Miura doesn't need to "refresh his memory" by drawing published panels of characters. That's a really strange assumption, actually. Like all artists, he can just draw the character in question and touch up his panel if needed, or scrap it and do it again.

The reason we see Guts appear four times in those 2 episodes you mention is because Rickert is reminded of specific times in his life (so it's not really flashbacks). It serves a purpose in the story (a big one, too), it's not there as a useless addition just so that Miura can remember how to draw Guts. Besides, Miura has been drawing Guts daily for over 25 years. I'm pretty sure he could draw him with his foot, in the dark, and still do a good job of it.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: persiandud on September 02, 2016, 08:38:28 AM
That's not how it works. Miura's considerations are not whether a story development would drive fans away. He just does what he feels is right with the story. So he does in fact "not give a fuck" about what people think. But there's still no doubt Casca will be cured, because the other outcome would not make sense from a storytelling perspective. A journey that has taken 17 volumes just isn't going to end with "sorry, can't help you".

I feel like I should clarify my words...I don't think Miura changes plot points based on what we think or want. But I'd also be shocked if he hadn't considered what would happen among the fanbase if he decided to go the route of NOT restoring Casca. And I say this because it's such a huge, culminating moment that I cannot see how a mangaka writing his magnum opus does not take everything into consideration. Not to say that audience feedback is a determining factor in how he shapes his story, but in this particular case it could be. He's had more than a decade to think about this, and I'm sure he's envisioned multiple scenarios where Casca is not restored and how the story would then take shape, and as you said....it just doesn't make sense to do that. Ultimately I agree with your post; Miura doesn't give a shit what we think, but I'm sure as hell he thought about his audience and what kind of feedback he'd get if he went that route.

So if we are to assume Casca will be restored, the question then is at what cost? What price does she (or Guts) have to pay? I can't imagine the Elf Queen, upon being privy to what transpired, being like "oh that's no problem! there you are Casca you're ok again" What will the catch be?

Also, the more I think of it, the less I see an imminent engagement/invasion by Griffith's forces. I think it's more likely we get a  :SK: appearance, more exposition (maybe regarding these barytes), a clearer understanding of Griffith's goals, AND....they are surrounded by magic everywhere! I can't see our favorite characters leaving without some significant upgrades! I'm so excited


Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Aazealh on September 02, 2016, 09:14:56 AM
I don't think Miura changes plot points based on what we think or want. But I'd also be shocked if he hadn't considered what would happen among the fanbase if he decided to go the route of NOT restoring Casca.

I don't think it was a consideration when he chose where he would take the story. Your argument is as unconvincing to me as it was the first time.

I'm sure he's envisioned multiple scenarios where Casca is not restored and how the story would then take shape

I don't see how you can be sure of that.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: persiandud on September 02, 2016, 09:49:57 AM
I don't think it was a consideration when he chose where he would take the story. Your argument is as unconvincing to me as it was the first time.

I mean...that's fine. We can agree to disagree. It's just my opinion.

I don't see how you can be sure of that.

You can't be sure of the inverse being true, either. Neither of us know him personally nor do we have insight into his thought process. This is merely speculation.  A mangaka who works 30 years on one single series, which is his livelihood...wouldn't once in the past decade consider how his audience would respond in regards to this particular plot point? Perhaps I should have chosen my words more carefully. I'm not technically "sure" of this (I thought this would be inferred) but I feel strongly about this opinion.



Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Aazealh on September 02, 2016, 10:29:06 AM
This is merely speculation.

Look, don't take this personally, but your groundless speculation about Miura's creative process is of little interest to the rest of us.
I think it'd be for the best if we focused on the episode instead.

And speaking of which, Young Animal #17 is now available on hakusensha-e.net. (https://www.hakusensha-e.net/top?id=6942)
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: RaffoBaffo on September 02, 2016, 05:55:46 PM
And speaking of which, Young Animal #17 is now available on hakusensha-e.net. (https://www.hakusensha-e.net/top?id=6942)
Thanks Aaz, I totally forgot the relase was today  :ubik:
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Patrick on September 02, 2016, 06:43:13 PM
And speaking of which, Young Animal #17 is now available on hakusensha-e.net. (https://www.hakusensha-e.net/top?id=6942)

Thanks Aaz! I'm going to get it right now.  :guts:
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Mammon on September 03, 2016, 04:33:42 AM
You definitely are reading too much into this. They have the same kind of hat (a type of medieval hunting hat), and... that's about it. Irvine plays a lute (an instrument where you pluck strings), while that nameless elf uses a kind of violin. Putting all of that aside, the likelihood that a human could have become an apostle on Skellig is very, very low. Not to mention that I have a feeling hunting animals isn't viewed kindly there either.

This takes place in episode 258, actually (the episodes' order changed between the pre-publication in Young Animal and the release of the volume). As for his dialogue, it is as follows:

Sonia: Hunters are always alone? Walking all by themselves through the mountains and forests?
Irvine: There are some who aren't, but I'm alone. I hunt by myself.
Irvine: For days you continue to hunt your prey, running through the wilderness.
Irvine: You hide alone deep in the forest.
Irvine: Night after night, until you lose any sense of time, and then...
Sonia: and then?
Irvine: ....before you know it, you have become an animal yourself.

Thanks for the episode correction (I had to check on some manga reading website), I had completely forgotten about that.
And thanks a lot for the English translation, and your detailed posts in general, it's always appreciated.

For the instruments not being the same, that's why I phrased it "Is this the rest of Irvine's former music band on page 7?", as a dumb joke since they play different ones + sport that hunter hat that is covering their eyes; like our friend Squiddot that random dude immediately made me think of Irvine.
I didn't mean it to come across as a serious idea/theory... 

But now I'm wondering how many others like Puck decided to leave Skellig, for one reason or another...
We know so little about the population, every time I re-read this episode I wonder about new little things.
But I need to read it again to properly formulate my ideas.

I certainly hope that we get to know more about all the inhabitants of Skellig, la Gigantomakhia (sp?) and the desert people.

Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Mangetsu on September 03, 2016, 11:11:34 AM
One thing i wonder is, if Puck's story of him leaving Skellig from episode 342 was indeed the truth and not just some last minute story that he came up with.

Do you guys think there will be something more behind his departure from Elfhelm or was that it ?


Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: jackson_hurley on September 03, 2016, 01:19:14 PM

Do you guys think there will be something more behind his departure from Elfhelm or was that it ?

I'm one to think that's it. Every one just seems to be :"Hey welcome back" or stuff like that. So I don't think there is some secret reason he left in the firstplace. And I'm pretty sure he'll stick around Guts until the end of the serie.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Tama on September 03, 2016, 02:16:46 PM
I am late to the party but it seems like everyone else pointed out what I would say. A magical episode, I love all the old folklore creatures that Miura created with his own spin on things. The reveal at the end was very fitting. Because we are closely approaching one of the biggest events in Berserk with Casca, does anyone else feel like putting off previews or seeing bits and pieces? I feel like whatever we get soon is going to be very powerful, from the dialogue to the imagery and I know for myself to take it in when it's out completely makes a big difference. It's really easy to say that though and then be tempted with checking daily for a page or two!  :casca:
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Aazealh on September 03, 2016, 04:28:11 PM
Thanks for the episode correction (I had to check on some manga reading website), I had completely forgotten about that.

No problem. For future reference, you can always use our own episode list. (http://skullknight.net/manga/)

But now I'm wondering how many others like Puck decided to leave Skellig, for one reason or another...

I doubt very many did. In fact, Puck might be the only one.

One thing i wonder is, if Puck's story of him leaving Skellig from episode 342 was indeed the truth and not just some last minute story that he came up with.

Do you guys think there will be something more behind his departure from Elfhelm or was that it ?

I don't think he was on a secret mission, but I think the Sovereign of the Flower Storm might reveal that his departure, journey and return had a purpose, even if he didn't necessarily know it himself.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Paracetamol Girl on September 03, 2016, 04:44:24 PM
I am late to the party but it seems like everyone else pointed out what I would say. A magical episode, I love all the old folklore creatures that Miura created with his own spin on things. The reveal at the end was very fitting. Because we are closely approaching one of the biggest events in Berserk with Casca, does anyone else feel like putting off previews or seeing bits and pieces? I feel like whatever we get soon is going to be very powerful, from the dialogue to the imagery and I know for myself to take it in when it's out completely makes a big difference. It's really easy to say that though and then be tempted with checking daily for a page or two!  :casca:
Naaaah. I don't think it's going to happen for several months more (at least), but knowing me I'm going to be hungrily scouring the Internet for whatever scraps I can find. I'm so hype for this, so ready.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: jackson_hurley on September 03, 2016, 05:32:12 PM
Random observation about this episode; the sovereign of the flower storm give a princess Zelda-ish vibe (at least for me) in her appearance. I LOVE it!
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: persiandud on September 04, 2016, 08:31:28 AM
Because we are closely approaching one of the biggest events in Berserk with Casca, does anyone else feel like putting off previews or seeing bits and pieces? I feel like whatever we get soon is going to be very powerful, from the dialogue to the imagery and I know for myself to take it in when it's out completely makes a big difference. It's really easy to say that though and then be tempted with checking daily for a page or two!  :casca:

I'm going to try but I feel like it'll be even more difficult than it usually is for me
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Tass on September 04, 2016, 08:18:35 PM
Pretty obvious at this point Guts is going to ride the Spirit Tree down into the Astral Realm.

No matter what, Casca is going to be cured, but what I'm dreading is the journey to Falconia and how long that's going to take.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Walter on September 04, 2016, 08:34:45 PM
Pretty obvious at this point Guts is going to ride the Spirit Tree down into the Astral Realm.

You are aware that the "astral realm" and the corporeal world have merged, right? The World Spiral Tree is the nexus of those roads -- it's what allows them to exist. Anyway, what would Guts be doing down there? The God Hand presumably are already roaming in the world thanks to the Blast.

Quote
No matter what, Casca is going to be cured, but what I'm dreading is the journey to Falconia and how long that's going to take.

You dread knowing that they are eventually going to go from A to B? That seems pretty shortsighted. It's not as if Miura isn't going to have developments along the way. There is still a TON of stuff to wrap up before the "final battle," presuming that even happens in Falconia. Plus, of course we'll be seeing how the world has changed over the years, how humans have survived, what "civilization" means in this new world. It's not going to be an unventful journey.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: jackson_hurley on September 05, 2016, 01:15:21 PM
Plus, of course we'll be seeing how the world has changed over the years, how humans have survived, what "civilization" means in this new world. It's not going to be an unventful journey.

It will be very interesting to see how they live in the new world indeed. I'm wondering if, by the time we get back to a Falconia point of view, how many people will have move in the city.

I'm aware that's it's pretty much the only "safe house" in the world right now, but will everyone decide to go there. I mean there must be places that are far from Falconia and the trip there could be very dangerous.

Is Griffith slowly building a bigger army to take on the monsters and "liberate" outpost that are trying to survive against astral creature? I think we breached quickly that subject when we saw Rickert in the forge/armory...
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Squiddot on September 05, 2016, 01:37:55 PM
I'm aware that's it's pretty much the only "safe house" in the world right now, but will everyone decide to go there. I mean there must be places that are far from Falconia and the trip there could be very dangerous.

If nothing else, we know the Bakiraka are still holding out in their village. With Rickert and Erika there, there's a good chance that could be the next stop.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Death May Die on September 06, 2016, 01:02:14 AM

You dread knowing that they are eventually going to go from A to B? That seems pretty shortsighted. It's not as if Miura isn't going to have developments along the way. There is still a TON of stuff to wrap up before the "final battle," presuming that even happens in Falconia. Plus, of course we'll be seeing how the world has changed over the years, how humans have survived, what "civilization" means in this new world. It's not going to be an unventful journey.

Now that you mention it, I dunno if its even possible to reverse the merging of the layers. Whether Guts and friends survive whats to come or not, this may very well be the new world till the end of days. It just can't be some incident that occurred and took (x) among of years to recover from. At some point everyone present in the world, and the generations to come will have learn to live with all these creatures.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Walter on September 06, 2016, 01:10:18 AM
It will be very interesting to see how they live in the new world indeed. I'm wondering if, by the time we get back to a Falconia point of view, how many people will have move in the city.

Going a step further, will we see Falconia become so crowded that it turns newcomers away? I don't think so, myself, but it does raise the question of what the world's human population will be reduced to in a few years.

Quote
Is Griffith slowly building a bigger army to take on the monsters and "liberate" outpost that are trying to survive against astral creature? I think we breached quickly that subject when we saw Rickert in the forge/armory...

I think the war will be against astral creatures (who else), but more immediately, I think one of the first things Griffith would do is have his troops secure a route for survivors to make their way to Falconia on. I think that's basically what we were seeing when Rickert's caravan arrived on the doorstep of Falconia.

But the next step? I do wonder if there will be a kind of "forward operating base" for Falconia's campaigns as the troops travel well beyond the protection of the wingstones, and how they'll be defended. I wonder the same about the Bakiraka's village, and what kind of defenses they'll erect (other than its natural, mountainous terrain). But is a second "base" for humanity to live in even in the cards, given that the whole point of Falconia seems to be to herd humanity to one location? 

If nothing else, we know the Bakiraka are still holding out in their village. With Rickert and Erika there, there's a good chance that could be the next stop.

I think it's going a bit far to say that's the "next stop" given how cloudy the horizon is right  now. Of course, that makes sense scenario-wise, but not story-wise (right now), given that Guts and co. have no idea about that place, or Rickert/Erika living there.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Squiddot on September 06, 2016, 02:25:27 AM
I think the war will be against astral creatures (who else).

It will be interesting to see what else is out in the world then. The most dangerous communities we've seen so far have been trolls, which look to be no match against a group of well armed knights. And larger astral creatures seem to be solitary animals. Dragons could prove to be the most dangerous thing so far, but at that point i'm not sure what any amount of spear-men could do.

I also just realised that Pandemonium serves the dual purpose of satiating apostle's bloodlust and also educating them about the monsters they'll be facing in the new world.

but more immediately, I think one of the first things Griffith would do is have his troops secure a route for survivors to make their way to Falconia on. I think that's basically what we were seeing when Rickert's caravan arrived on the doorstep of Falconia.

We know that troops receive information from Sonia about future attacks. Considering the amount of manpower available, Griffith might have the resources to simply seek out any group of refugees that otherwise wouldn't survive the trip. Some good knights and a handful of apostles catered to whatever Sonia detects shouldn't run into too much trouble.

I think it's going a bit far to say that's the "next stop" given how cloudy the horizon is right  now. Of course, that makes sense scenario-wise, but not story-wise (right now), given that Guts and co. have no idea about that place, or Rickert/Erika living there.

Yeah right now there's no plot point that can satisfactorily tie the two story-lines together. I'm approaching this from purely a meta perspective. But I've always held onto the notion that until Casca's insanity gets resolved, speculating on the party's next move is nigh impossible anyway. The Elfhelm journey has been it's own story, without a lot of overlap to the more universal story of defeating Griffith. And only when its out of the way will we start to see a clear path towards the next goal.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: DragoonBG on September 06, 2016, 07:13:01 PM
I'm gonna bring back the focus on the current developments or the ones that are near to come.

I was thinking how crowded is the throne room/area - which is appropriate considering the visitors (most probably a rare occasion in the everyday life of the Skellig's citizens), so everyone is curious/eager to see what is this fuss all about. There will be (probably) a short introductory and explanatory aspect (like why Danan acted so secretly, maybe the departure of Puck - that was talked about on the previous page - will be disclosed/was due to him finding the "Dark Beast" clothed in black from the elfin prophecy :P), before we get to Guts verbally state his wish towards the the elf ruler.

Those thoughts lead to; In my mind I was imagining the procces of curing to be more intimate - Guts, Casca, The ruler of the Elves - due to the circumstances of how personal and painful the Eclipse was. I also remember reading a very nice suggestions of how it will be done (similar to therapy) on the forums here as well and with which I agree. But - if my memory serves me right - it is given (to the community) that the party Guts gathered will/have to learn what happened with him in the past at some point and that point will be here on the Island. So do you think that this means all of them will witness the tragedy/massacre that transpired, do you think the Ruler will sent away his citizens and then proceed, or seclude/isolate the party in another specific area? I can see ourselves left with those 2 options, and as much as I expected an intimate journey to the  mind of Casca, story wise and development wise it will be smart (and natural) if the whole party witness it (though, to me it will be weirdly disturbing feeling, like peeping into someones mind without his/her consent, or even as a simple side viewer). Of course, Miura can totaly (and will probably) surprise us with something entirely new :).

Another thing that was on my mind while I was thinking about all of this is the potential God Hand intrusion (something speculated before). How can such a thing be incorporated in the current advancement of the story. If it happens, how would that be reasonable and fitting. Which member would show up and how exactly. I think generally speaking if something of this caliber transpired, it's only logical to occur after Casca is cured. But then again, an interesting idea came to mind. Earlier in the episodes, something called/translated Corridor of Dreams was mentioned as a mean of helping/healing Casca. We all know or can deduce which God Hand member have the ability to play around with memories/dreams. Our little friend Ubik did so (and quite possible was part of the mass dream about the Falcon of Light) in the past. I have to point out that in these cases we see him operate (in both of them), he did so during certain events (I think it's far fetched to dig towards Guts Beherit specifically at the moment, but I'm gonna just mention it so you know I have that in mind). Of course the situation in the world now is different. If I'm to draw parallels, in Qliphoth Slan manifested herself due to the place, her desire and all the preceding events. Right now Guts is on a safe ground lessening the chances of God Hand showing up (at least at first glance). So my explantion/speculation for that to appear is Casca being healed. While they are in the Corridor of Dreams, looking for Casca's sanity between different mirror outlooks of her shattered mind, experiencing bits and pieces of her life, thoughts, memories, they will inevitable face the eclipse once again. Passing through that moment of her's, I imagine Ubik being drawn like a still painting in the background that detects what is going on and creepily manifest from the still image of the past into a lively present one. I can see him being manipulative towards Casca (making things worse in general) in attempts to convince her to forever stay in her "happy little island where her mind was hiding/she found piece" for example. One problem I can see is how will Guts be fighting there without his sword - I mean I see the process being more spiritual - in the mind - and lacking any actual physical sensations. Another one is, it's Berserk, and I think the way I put things together might contain a little bit too much esoteric stuff :D.

So what do you think guys?

p.s. Long (for my standards) posts are hard for me, excuses any inaccuracies of all kinds (I did try to clean stuff up, it took a lot of time to formulate my thoughts :().
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Cyrus Jong on September 06, 2016, 11:43:16 PM
snip

Interesting ideas, but I don't really see why Ubik would specifically want to target Guts and Casca. He finds Guts amusing, but hasn't really displayed any singular interest in him like Slan has. If Ubik were to make an appearance on Skellig, I imagine it would would likely be more of a full-scale attack on the island's inhabitants, rather than just mucking with an insignificant sacrifice for funsies.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Walter on September 07, 2016, 01:48:03 AM
maybe the departure of Puck - that was talked about on the previous page - will be disclosed/was due to him finding the "Dark Beast" clothed in black from the elfin prophecy :P), before we get to Guts verbally state his wish towards the the elf ruler.

Puck doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who had been searching for Guts all along. I think it happened like it appears -- he simply crossed paths with Guts and together they eventually became wrapped up in each other's travels, as companions.

Alternatively, I think it's possible we'll get some further explanation of what SK meant in Vol 14 when he said that perhaps Guts has a connection with the elves. Perhaps  the Sovereign of the Flower Storm knows all about Guts and his travels. There are of course many examples of Guts being watched over by elves, from Chich, to the elf dust Judo (and subsequently Rickert) procured, to Puck. These could all be coincidences, but it may also have been the Sovereign's influence. While that may sound farfetched right now, it's clear that Miura is setting the Sovereign up to represent a great, transcendental power. A great display of that power would be to connect some of those dots for us.

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But - if my memory serves me right - it is given (to the community) that the party Guts gathered will/have to learn what happened with him in the past at some point and that point will be here on the Island. So do you think that this means all of them will witness the tragedy/massacre that transpired, do you think the Ruler will sent away his citizens and then proceed, or seclude/isolate the party in another specific area?

I don't think that the restoration process is going to be done at this very moment. As you said, it's pretty crowded in that room, and I expect the restoration will be an intimate affair. As for Guts' party, I don't think they'll need to be treated to a magic light show to learn what happened between Guts, Casca and Griffith. I think they'll simply be told. Or maybe there's some other method that will be employed (magic light show).

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Passing through that moment of her's, I imagine Ubik being drawn like a still painting in the background that detects what is going on and creepily manifest from the still image of the past into a lively present one.

That is a deliciously creepy image, even if I still I have a hard time believing it will come to pass. I do like your idea though -- that the darkness within Casca is what would allow one of the God Hand to (partially) manifest, even in the presence of the otherwise inhospitable environment of Elfhelm.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: DragoonBG on September 07, 2016, 01:31:20 PM
Interesting ideas, but I don't really see why Ubik would specifically want to target Guts and Casca. He finds Guts amusing, but hasn't really displayed any singular interest in him like Slan has. If Ubik were to make an appearance on Skellig, I imagine it would would likely be more of a full-scale attack on the island's inhabitants, rather than just mucking with an insignificant sacrifice for funsies.

Well, they are branded as sacrifice, and the way I described it he happens to be there (it's a wild speculation, because we know very little in general about the God Hand), because of the (Walter explained it much better than me :() terrible nightmare that was the eclipse and which will be the catalist to make his appearance possible (I did't meant it to sound like Ubik is purposefully trying to hunt them). Which can lead to some kind of assault on the island through the Corridor of Dreams while they are healing Casca for example. The other more obvious choice is through the World Spiral Tree.

Puck doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who had been searching for Guts all along. I think it happened like it appears -- he simply crossed paths with Guts and together they eventually became wrapped up in each other's travels, as companions.

I guess my attempt at trying to be funny or half serious was bad :(.

Alternatively, I think it's possible we'll get some further explanation of what SK meant in Vol 14 when he said that perhaps Guts has a connection with the elves. Perhaps  the Sovereign of the Flower Storm knows all about Guts and his travels. There are of course many examples of Guts being watched over by elves, from Chich, to the elf dust Judo procured, to Puck. These could all be coincidences, but it may also have been the Sovereign's influence. While that may sound farfetched right now, it's clear that Miura is setting the Sovereign up to represent a great, transcendental power. A great display of that power would be to connect some of those dots for us.

Great points :).

I don't think that the restoration process is going to be done at this very moment. As you said, it's pretty crowded in that room, and I expect the restoration will be an intimate affair. As for Guts' party, I don't think they'll need to be treated to a magic light show to learn what happened between Guts, Casca and Griffith. I think they'll simply be told. Or maybe there's some other method that will be employed (magic light show).

Magic light show :). Yes, it probably can be looked as something like that :P. The problem with being told for is, that it is not very good way of teling a story. I believe that if Guts/Miura had the desire to do so, they would've done until now (it's not like there were no chances, it's just too personal for Guts and he likes to keep things like that for himself most of the time). Getting Guts company the chance to experience partly what happened to him and his girl (considering the eclipse will probably be shown to us as well again, while Casca is being restored), is a good way to do 2 things at the same time that feels suitable. But then again, it will be weird as well, due to the fact most of these people to sane Casca are unknown (probably, because we don't know what is going through her mind) and they might be an obstacle or intrusive to the process. I do think though, even if they are present it still can pack a good punch and be intimate and personal.

That is a deliciously creepy image, even if I still I have a hard time believing it will come to pass. I do like your idea though -- that the darkness within Casca is what would allow one of the God Hand to (partially) manifest, even in the presence of the otherwise inhospitable environment of Elfhelm.

Thank you for putting the explanation that I had on my mind in a much more clear and (hopefuly) understandable way :) (not only the darkness, all the negative emotions she has and ran away from).

Here's anoter thing that came to mind yesterday after I posted, something very obvious that I neglected. I - as many other members here probably - did read the suggestions to determining Casca's resolve to joining Guts (after she is cured) on his quest to be their child. But for some weird reason didn't think that actually the Moonlight Boy might turn to be the factor that brings Casca back to her sanity (and kick some God Hand ass :P). It will be a very heartwarming image - all three of them embrace each other when Casca accepts the reality/reasoning of what happened. I think the chance of this occuring is very big (not gonna give numbers :P), he was always protecting and helping her mother and father and it will be a very fitting conclusion for Casca's current and at the same time further development.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Theozilla on September 11, 2016, 09:55:54 PM
A little late in posting my thoughts on the most recent episode. Can't really say much else than what's already been stated regarding the episode. Visually spectacular while also integrating humor in well. The revelation was also great and like others have said made a introductory scene that's been expected and waited for so long still surprising and unexpected.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Sareth on September 09, 2017, 12:46:20 AM
Thread hasn't been posted in in almost a year but I just noticed this detail.

The elves that arrest Puck and Magnifico are wearing helmets and chest pieces made from beetle carapace, similar to the cover page Miura did for episode 108.

(https://i.imgur.com/1JwWrJe.jpg)

(https://scontent-sea1-1.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/s480x480/e15/11283197_1473621052929373_1857765767_n.jpg?ig_cache_key=OTkyNzExNjQwMzE4MzYwNTUx.2)
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Griffith on September 09, 2017, 05:37:49 AM
Yep, either that initial image was based on canon Elf Knight lore or it's the life in the art imitating the art in the art. My favorite possibility though is Miura just had the same idea twice independently when it came to designing the armor of the Elvin guards. More likely he just couldn't get it out of his head because it's pretty neat, and of course he uses similarly styled "armor" in Gigantomakhia.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Aazealh on September 09, 2017, 05:41:19 AM
Yep, either that initial image was based on canon Elf Knight lore or it's the life in the art imitating the art in the art. My favorite possibility though is Miura just had the same idea twice independently when it came to designing the armor of the Elvin guards. More likely he just couldn't get it out of his head because it's pretty neat, and of course he uses similarly styled "armor" in Gigantomakhia.

My first thought (which I still hold) is that he decided to style them after the original "Puck Knight" picture, just for the reference.
Title: Re: Episode 346
Post by: Griffith on September 09, 2017, 07:50:25 AM
My first thought (which I still hold) is that he decided to style them after the original "Puck Knight" picture, just for the reference.

Agreed, it's a pretty iconic shot of Puck from its time, so it's a nice and natural callback to make.