SkullKnight.net

Berserk => Current Episodes => Topic started by: -cause on September 29, 2016, 02:11:42 AM

Title: Berserk Guidebook
Post by: -cause on September 29, 2016, 02:11:42 AM
Went ahead and did my best translating the summary on the back of the guidebook's cover protector. At the very most it gives a primitive sense of the book's contents. Keep in mind, I'm the furthest thing from a professional translator and I can almost certainly guarantee that there are errors. Nevertheless here's what I got:

Quote
First "Berserk" Official Guide book, finally covering the complete story since publication!! Episode 1 to Volume 38. A full introduction to the main characters, the Apostles, and a view of the world. A long interview looking back on a whole record of the story writing of Mr. Kentaro Miura, and a first look at the reference materials used for characters and settings. Also a special glimpse of unreleased content past volume 38, a pre-writing of what's to come! One book "Berserk" readers must have!

The text on the inside of the protector gives a synopsis of Berserk and Gigantomakhia and a quick notation of other popular works published by Hakusensha that Miura has contributed to. I'll try translating a few other things too but as I've already suggested, any and all translations I post should be read skeptically.

*Edit:
Had some extra time on my hands and decided to measure out the given attributes of the main characters. Kinda weird that they decided to list them the way they did. Made me feel like I was reading a guidebook for a video game. At any rate, some of the measurements are extremely close to the measurements of other characters so my order below might not be 100% accurate as some of the diagrams were indeed quite small. On top of that, despite my best efforts, some of the characters seem to have an equal measurement of certain attributes, hence the equals signs.

Quote
Muscle Strength (listed highest to lowest):
Guts, Azan, Serpico, Roderick, Casca, Farnese, Isidro=Isma=Magnifico, Schierke, Puck, Ivalera
 
Endurance (listed highest to lowest):
Guts, Azan, Serpico, Roderick, Casca, Farnese=Isma, Isidro, Schierke=Ivalera=Magnifico, Puck

Agility (listed highest to lowest):
Serpico, Casca, Guts, Puck=Isidro, Isma, Ivalera, Roderick, Azan=Farnese=Schierke, Magnifico

Brainpower (listed highest to lowest):
Schierke, Serpico, Roderick, Guts, Isidro=Magnifico, Azan, Farnese, Isma=Ivalera, Puck, Casca

Mental Stregnth (listed highest to lowest):
Guts=Schierke, Isidro, Farnese=Azan, Serpico, Roderick, Isma=Magnifico, Puck=Ivalera=Casca

Sociability (listed highest to lowest):
Roderick, Isma, Puck=Isidro, Ivalera=Serpico=Azan, Magnifico=Casca, Farnese, Schierke=Guts

I found the order somewhat odd in certain areas; Casca and Serpico scoring higher than Guts under agility for instance. Nevertheless, this is what I came up with.
Title: Re: Berserk Guidebook
Post by: Theozilla on September 29, 2016, 03:33:54 AM
Figured this would the most appropriate place to link/repost the information Fieryfurnace999 on reddit posted from the new Guidebook:https://www.reddit.com/r/Berserk/comments/54y7jb/comprehensive_list_of_guidebook_character/
Quote from: Fieryfurnace999
So, my Official Guidebook finally arrived. I've put the ages, heights and weights, as well as the romanized names given for all of the characters in case anybody was curious. I've converted the heights and weights to feet and stone and pounds as well for the benefit of any imperial users. There's also stats given for each of the main characters in hexagon diagrams, but I don't know any Japanese so the contents are a mystery there.
I doubt that Miura provided the heights and weights for each of his characters since it's superfluous information, but it's nice to know regardless. Some of the romanized names are different to Dark Horse's translation, which I've put at the top of each character's info in bold.
So, without further ado:
Guts:
Romanized name: Guts
Age: 24
Height: 204cm - 6'8"
Weight: 115kg - 18st.2lb
Puck:
Romanized name: Puck
Age: Unknown (c'moon...)
Height: 15cm - 0'6"
Weight: 20g - 0.04lb
Casca:
Romanized name: Casca
Age: 24
Height: 165cm - 5'5"
Weight: 50kg - 7st.12lb
Farnese:
Romanized name: Farnese
Age: 19
Height: 162cm - 5'4"
Weight: 48kg - 7st.8lb
Serpico:
Romanized name: Serpico
Age: 20
Height: 175cm - 5'9"
Weight: 63kg - 9st.13lb
Isidro:
Romanized name: Isidro
Age: 14
Height: 130cm - 4'3"
Weight: 42kg - 6st.9lb
Schierke:
Romanized name: Schierke
Age: 13
Height: 120cm - 3'11"
Weight: 31kg - 4st.12lb
Ivalera:
Romanized name: Ivalera
Age: Unknown
Height: 17cm - 0'7"
Weight: 18g - 0.04lb
Azan:
Romanized name: Azan
Age: 46
Height: 157cm - 5'2"
Weight: 95kg - 14st.13lb
Roderick:
Romanized name: Roderick
Age: 27
Height: 188cm - 6'2"
Weight: 77kg - 12st.2lb
Magnifico:
Romanized name: Magnifico
Age: 28
Height: 174cm - 5'9"
Weight: 69kg - 10st.12lb
Isma:
Romanized name: Isma
Age: 15
Height: 152cm - 4'12"
Weight: 44kg - 6st.13lb
Griffith:
Romanized name: Griffith
Age: 24
Height: 178cm - 5'10"
Weight: 66kg - 10st.6lb
Zodd:
Romanized name: Zodd
Age: Unknown
Height: 220cm - apostle form 350cm | 7'3" - apostle form 11'6" (seems a little short in his apostle form - possibly referring to when he's on all fours?)
Weight: 165kg - apostle form 1001kg | 26st - apostle form 157st.9lb (just 1 over 1000kg - Zodd goes above and beyond!)
Sonia:
Romanized name: Sonia
Age: 15
Height: 140cm - 4'7"
Weight: 42kg - 6st.9lb
Locus:
Romanized name: Locks
Age: Unknown
Height: 200cm - apostle form 300cm | 6'7" - apostle form 9'10"
Weight: 100kg - apostle form 520kg | 15st.10lb - apostle form 81st.12lb
Irvine:
Romanized name: Irvine
Age: Unknown
Height/length: 175cm - apostle form 531cm from nose to tail | 5'9" - apostle form 17'5" from nose to tail
Weight: 63kg - apostle form 446kg | 9st.13lb - apostle form 70st.3lb
Grunbeld:
Romanized name: Gurunberd
Age: Unknown
Height: 270cm - apostle form 600cm | 8'10" - apostle form 19'8"
Weight: 303kg - apostle form 1644kg | 47st.10lb - apostle form 258st.12lb
Rakshas:
Romanized name: Raksas (with extra sass)
Age: Unknown
Height: Unknown
Weight: Unknown
Mule (Wolflame):
Romanized name: Mule
Age: 17
Height: 150cm - 4'11" (he's tiny!)
Weight: 48kg - 7st.8lb
Rickert:
Romanized name: Rickert
Age: 19 (holy shit!)
Height: 166cm - 5'5"
Weight: 61kg - 9st.8lb
Judeau:
Romanized name: Judo
Age: 18
Height: 159cm - 5'3"
Weight: 49kg - 7st.10lb
Pippin:
Romanized name: Pippin
Age: 19
Height: 190cm - 6'3"
Weight: 133kg - 20st.13lb
Corkus:
Romanized name: Carcus
Age: 20
Height: 173cm - 5'8"
Weight: 66kg - 10st.6lb
Charlotte: (the only character to be given a profile including age, weight and height, but not a hexagon stat diagram, interestingly)
Romanized name: Charlotte
Age: 20
Height: 162cm - 5'4"
Weight: 50kg - 7st.12lb
Mozgus:
Romanized name: Mozguz
Age: 42
Height: 222cm - apostle spawn form 280cm | 7'3" - apostle spawn form 9'2"
Weight: 145kg - apostle spawn form 299kg | 22st.12lb - apostle spawn form
Ganishka:
Romanized name: Ganishka
Age: Unknown
Height: 180cm - apostle form "measurement is impossible" | 5'11" - apostle form "y'all can't measure this"
Weight: 92kg - apostle form "measurement is impossible" | 14st.7lb - apostle form "y'all can't measure this"
Daiba:
Romanized name: Master Daiba
Age: Unknown
Height: 165cm - 5'5"
Weight: 44kg - 6st.13lb
Silat:
Romanized name: Silat
Age: 25
Height: 182cm - 5'12"
Weight: 75kg - 11st.11lb
Erica
Romanized name: Erica
Age: 11
Height: 139cm (she's taller than Schierke, ha) - 4'7"
Weight: 43kg - 6st.11lb
Godo:
Romanized name: Godo
Age: 68
Height: 155cm - 5'1"
Weight: 51kg - 8st
Luca:
Romanized name: Luka
Age: 27 (older than I expected)
Height: 174cm - 5'9"
Weight: 63kg - 9st.13lb
Now for name differences from the Dark Horse translation; I have included every romanized name, including those that are the same as Dark Horse's versions. Again, the Dark Horse names are in bold.
Beherit is translated as Beherit - sk.net rejoice!
Flora: Flora
Owen: Owen
Laban: Laban
Jarif: Jarif
Foss: Foss
Gaston: Gaston
Julius: Julius
Anna: Anna
Bakiraka: Burkilaka (only the ilaka part is unobscured by Japanese characters so I could be wrong. but this is what it looks like - very strange)
Samson: Samson
Adon: Adon
Gennon: Guenon
Boscogn: Boscone
Nina: Nina
Joachim: Joachim
Jerome: Jerome
Gambino: Gambino
Shisu: Cis
Jill: Jill
Vandimion (family): Vandimion
Femto: Femto
Void: Void
Slan: Slan
Ubik: Ubik
Conrad: Conrad
Skull Knight: The Knight of Skeleton (for goodness sake...)
Aaand that's all the information I could understand! The Guidebook is an amazing thing to have: it includes concept art for Guts and the group from Miura as well as a bunch of information (including what appears to be every single pop culture reference Puck has ever made! I wonder how long it took for the guys at Young Animal to compile those pages). Definitely snatch it up if you can!
Anyway, off to add all these to the wikia eventually...
Title: Re: Berserk Guidebook
Post by: Delta Phi on September 29, 2016, 04:19:12 AM
There's some pretty suspect information coming out of this guidebook... Mean, Guts is taller than Pippin? He was what, like at least 6 inches shorter during the Golden Age, and now he's 5 inches taller?

Do you know anyone who grew an extra foot of height after their 19th birthday?  :???:
Title: Re: Berserk Guidebook
Post by: Theozilla on September 29, 2016, 04:36:26 AM
There's some pretty suspect information coming out of this guidebook... Mean, Guts is taller than Pippin? He was what, like at least 6 inches shorter during the Golden Age, and now he's 5 inches taller?

Do you know anyone who grew an extra foot of height after their 19th birthday?  :???:
It's very very uncommon but not completely unheard of/impossible I suppose. Like there are always extreme outliers in any average I guess.
Title: Re: Berserk Guidebook
Post by: Aazealh on September 29, 2016, 04:41:11 AM
There's some pretty suspect information coming out of this guidebook...

Some of these had privately seeped to me beforehand, and unfortunately it's very clear that none of the character information from this guidebook is to be trusted. It's the same than with the previous "guides" we've had over the years. Just like in the past, the names they didn't know about seem to have been made up while they copied those we already knew. And they also seem to have lifted names from previous unreliable sources (the PS2 game, the 1997 anime artbook) as well as reliable ones (the manga volumes). A lot of those spellings are just not possible, and some directly conflict with known official YA spellings as well...

As for the rest (age, height, weight), it's as fishy/random as expected. Oh well, it's disappointing, but there's not much we can do. Maybe the next one will be different... For now though people should really make sure to not get confused by this. Those aren't reliable.

P.S. Beherit has already been confirmed 10 times over to be the correct spelling.
Title: Re: Berserk Guidebook
Post by: DraceYun on September 29, 2016, 06:04:03 AM
Rickert being older than Mule is suspect. Their ages should be switched.
Title: Re: Berserk Guidebook
Post by: Cyrus Jong on September 29, 2016, 07:27:34 AM
Thanks for providing that, -cause.

The data in this book is...interesting I guess, and not necessarily in a good way. I mean, every instance where Casca is listed, are they referring to her before or after the Eclipse? Thanks to muscle atrophy, I can't image that she'd really be as high up on the lists for strength, endurance, and agility in the present, but her past self would most definitely not be so low on the scales for brainpower and mental strength. And Schierke, Farnese and Guts are most definitely not worse than her currently in terms of sociability.
Title: Re: Berserk Guidebook
Post by: Aazealh on September 29, 2016, 12:03:39 PM
Had some extra time on my hands and decided to measure out the given attributes of the main characters. Kinda weird that they decided to list them the way they did. Made me feel like I was reading a guidebook for a video game. At any rate, some of the measurements are extremely close to the measurements of other characters so my order below might not be 100% accurate as some of the diagrams were indeed quite small. On top of that, despite my best efforts, some of the characters seem to have an equal measurement of certain attributes, hence the equals signs.

I found the order somewhat odd in certain areas; Casca and Serpico scoring higher than Guts under agility for instance. Nevertheless, this is what I came up with.

I appreciate the effort, but like I mentioned above, the character information provided by the guide, be it the age, height, weight or even the name spellings are completely unreliable. It was unfortunately a possibility, as it has happened several times before. I guess Hakusensha just left this up to some intern, or even outsourced it to whoever. As a result, I can't recommend that any stock be put into this information.
Title: Re: Berserk Guidebook
Post by: Rupert Sinclair on September 29, 2016, 02:42:01 PM
Man, I was really excited to get official confirmation on some of these names once and for all.  My heart sank when I saw "Locks" and I realized this couldn't be trusted as soon as I read "Burkilaka".  Knight of Skeleton is just the obviously-wrong cherry on top.  Oh well...  :schierke:
Title: Re: Berserk Guidebook
Post by: Walter on September 29, 2016, 02:50:58 PM
My heart sank when I saw "Locks" :schierke:

Locks is actually the only feasible name among the ones they bungled. For example, "Mozguz" is impossible. It's written as モズグス, not モズグズ. Gurunberd may be phonetically correct, but it looks like they didn't bother making it an English name. Like leaving Griffith as Gurifisu. Guennon also isn't possible, based on the way it's spelled in the manga. Same goes for Carcus (a repeat from before). Erica goes against Erika as spelled in English in the Japanese Vol 38.
Title: Re: Berserk Guidebook
Post by: Rupert Sinclair on September 29, 2016, 02:58:44 PM
Locks is actually the only feasible name among the ones they bungled. For example, "Mozguz" is impossible. It's written as モズグス, not モズグズ. Gurunberd may be phonetically correct, but it looks like they didn't bother making it an English name. Like leaving Griffith as Gurifisu. Guennon also isn't possible, based on the way it's spelled in the manga. Same goes for Carcus (a repeat from before). Erica goes against Erika as spelled in English in the Japanese Vol 38.

That just happened to be the first one I saw that was different before realizing this wouldn't be legitimate.  I just don't think I could have gotten used to calling him that.
Title: Re: Berserk Guidebook
Post by: -cause on September 29, 2016, 03:53:56 PM
...the character information provided by the guide, be it the age, height, weight or even the name spellings are completely unreliable.

Ya I figured this was the case when I read that Guts is 204cm (~6' 8") and Pippin was only ever 190cm (~6' 3"). Still though, I couldn't help myself.
I think I'll try and translate a bit of the "Walk Through Midland" pages which are a part of the View of the World section. Don't expect to come across anything new but they might be interesting anyways.
Title: Re: Berserk Guidebook
Post by: Theozilla on September 29, 2016, 05:24:10 PM
Rickert being older than Mule is suspect. Their ages should be switched.
Rickert being 19 is actually quite feasible. Like I doubt Rickert was younger than 10 when Guts joined the Hawks/Falcons (who was 15 then). And if we accept that Guts' current age is 24, then that means 8-9 years have passed since Guts first joined the Hawks/Falcons, so Rickert being 19 easily works out.
Title: Re: Berserk Guidebook
Post by: JMP on September 29, 2016, 08:12:48 PM
Even though it doesn't sound like some of the info is reliable, which is a shame, I still deem this little book well worth the purchase. I love the illustration for the cover as well as the other color pics in the front of the book. I was happy to see that one was a favorite of mine of Schierke reading her spell book! :guts: The pages showing Miura's workspace were of course really interesting and I like the pages towards the back with the character sketches, too.
Title: Re: Berserk Guidebook
Post by: DANGERDOOOOM on September 30, 2016, 12:50:16 AM
Guts is 6'8??? That's freakishly tall :ganishka: I'd say more like 6'2.

I see what they were going for. But all in all useless and unreliable information. Large portions of these are questionable. Still can't wait to receive my copy in the mail (in the next 4-6 weeks... :judo:)
Title: Re: Berserk Guidebook
Post by: Olivier Hague on September 30, 2016, 08:12:09 PM
A lot of those spellings are just not possible, and some directly conflict with known official YA spellings as well...
Which ones are you thinking of?
(if you have a list of those YA spellings, I'm interested!)

Locks is actually the only feasible name among the ones they bungled. For example, "Mozguz" is impossible. It's written as モズグス, not モズグズ. Gurunberd may be phonetically correct, but it looks like they didn't bother making it an English name. Like leaving Griffith as Gurifisu. Guennon also isn't possible, based on the way it's spelled in the manga. Same goes for Carcus (a repeat from before).
I'm going to have to disagree, there. "Impossible" spellings? Whah? The names should look (and sound) like English names? Whaah??
For example, a quick Google search netted me one "Ewa Guz-Seroka" whose name was spelled as "エヴァ・グス=セロカ" in Japanese. Pesky non-English names!
(it was also spelled "Mozguz" in the MBR edition of the series, for what it's worth)
Title: Re: Berserk Guidebook
Post by: Walter on September 30, 2016, 09:51:14 PM
Wow, uh... hi Olivier! Long time no see? The last time we spoke, I wasn't even a father yet and now my son is in pre-school. But enough chit chat, let's get into some hot katakana transliteration action!

I'm going to have to disagree, there. "Impossible" spellings? Whah?

Normally I would trust your judgment on names (as the person who originally clarified such things for us almost 20 years ago), so I'm genuinely curious about your reasoning here. Because when it comes to the Zu and Su differentiation in the spelling of Mozgus' katakana, it's elementary, right? If it were supposed to be "Mozguz", the letters/sounds would have been repeated. Instead, they're different -- thus, Mozgus.

I guess what you're getting at is that sometimes these names aren't spelled in katakana correctly from the beginning, and that we should take whatever English spelling they eventually dole out to us as the true name all along. But if that were the case, we'd have had to adapt to all the various, poorly Romanized names we've gotten over the years, including G a t s. I think at the end of the day, we have to use our best judgment based on the spelling in the manga. Thankfully the names that have been spelled out at the start of the past 10 volumes appear to have been rock solid, so far. Whereas the various attempts at Romanizing the names into English in supplementary materials have been hit or miss.

Quote
For example, a quick Google search netted me one "Ewa Guz-Seroka" whose name was spelled as "エヴァ・グス=セロカ" in Japanese. Pesky non-English names!

Well, that one's just a fucking mess, isn't it? Anyway, in that example, they didn't have ズ and ス sitting right next to each other, so I can sort of see how someone not adept at English would have transliterated the sounds poorly into katakana. I don't see the excuse for "Mozguz" though.

Quote
(it was also spelled "Mozguz" in the MBR edition of the series, for what it's worth)

Are all the MBR spellings gospel? I seem to remember a few discrepancies in that one as well. Either way, two sources can be wrong twice in a row. Carcus, for example.

ズs aside, what's been going on with you lately? What'd you think of the 2016 anime?
Title: Re: Berserk Guidebook
Post by: Skeleton on October 01, 2016, 01:36:43 AM
It's great to see you back here, Olivier!
Title: Re: Berserk Guidebook
Post by: Olivier Hague on October 01, 2016, 02:31:18 AM
Wow, uh... hi Olivier! Long time no see? The last time we spoke, I wasn't even a father yet and now my son is in pre-school.
Oh, wow!

Quote
when it comes to the Zu and Su differentiation in the spelling of Mozgus' katakana, it's elementary, right? If it were supposed to be "Mozguz", the letters/sounds would have been repeated. Instead, they're different -- thus, Mozgus.
Not necessarily, no? In a whole bunch of languages using the Latin alphabet, the same letter may be pronounced differently depending on the context. Here, the final "Z" being pronounced "S" wouldn't be that shocking to me.

Quote
Well, that one's just a fucking mess, isn't it? Anyway, in that example, they didn't have ズ and ス sitting right next to each other, so I can sort of see how someone not adept at English would have transliterated the sounds poorly into katakana.
B-b-but why are you even talking about English, there? It's not an English name, so you shouldn't expect it to sound (or be transliterated into kana) like one.
Is it really a poor kana transliteration? I believe it's a Polish name, and I'm not nearly familiar enough with the language to tell.
(For whatever it's worth, a quick look at Wikipedia tells me that the Polish "Z" sounds /z̪/ or /s̪/ when devoiced...)

Quote
Are all the MBR spellings gospel?
Oh, I'm not arguing they are! Just pointing out that it's not the first time I've seen that spelling.

Quote
Either way, two sources can be wrong twice in a row. Carcus, for example.
... I don't know that that one is wrong either, actually.

Quote
ズs aside, what's been going on with you lately?
Nothing, really!

Quote
What'd you think of the 2016 anime?
I don't know why they bothered.
Title: Re: Berserk Guidebook
Post by: Aazealh on October 01, 2016, 11:24:43 AM
Which ones are you thinking of?
(if you have a list of those YA spellings, I'm interested!)

The biggest offender is "Erica", which was spelled "Erika" in a supplement for YA #15 of 2015 as well as at the beginning of volume 38. The spellings at the beginning of volumes are what I was referring to here, as they're the most credible source of information as far as I'm concerned. The fact this guide misses such an obvious and recent one casts serious doubt on its reliability to me (not even going into the character stats). Some other names have also shown up in YA over the years, like "Charlotte" or "Rakshas" (or even "Skull Knight" in recent years), but it's really the volumes that I consider the reference.

The names that have been shown at the beginning of the volumes so far are: Guts / Casca / Griffith / Puck / Isidro / Schierke / Farnese / Serpico / Zodd / Magnifico / Roderick / Sonia / Ganishka / Isma / Rickert / Erika

That aside, "Burkilaka" isn't very credible to me given the Indo-Middle Eastern inspiration of the clan as well as the Kushan in general. In my experience you find a lot of "Baki" > "バーキ", but "Burki" rather goes to "ブルキ". "Gurunberd" is also as unconvincing as ever to me. The German or Dutch "Grun" very typically transliterates to "グルン" (Grunwald, Grundisse, Grundtvig, etc.), while for "Gurun" I can only think of "Gurung" from Nepalese. The former seems much more likely to me. There's a few others I'm also dubious about but you get the idea.

Now I'll admit that everything's possible with Japanese transliterations and strictly speaking these aren't incorrect. But looking at the names we do know about and how they were created, these just don't fit the bill to me. I think they lack coherence. I also can't help but remember how back in the day stuff like "Gats", "Zoddo" or "Ricketts" was used on official material before the correct names came about. So while I keep wishing for an authoritative rundown of all the names in the Latin alphabet, IMHO this isn't it.
Title: Re: Berserk Guidebook
Post by: Jemuller on October 01, 2016, 01:25:01 PM
Does anyone have a larger picture of this (without the logo)?

(http://www.younganimal.com/berserk/img/20160622/main.jpg)
Title: Re: Berserk Guidebook
Post by: MrFlibble on October 01, 2016, 01:55:04 PM
Fucking hell this is abysmal. Schierke has the same mental strength as Guts? so if need be, Schierke could cut her arm off? And Serpico is more agile than Silat, the man who can catch arrows in mid flight and survived a fight with Guts is more agile than Serpico.
Title: Re: Berserk Guidebook
Post by: jackson_hurley on October 01, 2016, 02:39:03 PM
Fucking hell this is abysmal. Schierke has the same mental strength as Guts? so if need be, Schierke could cut her arm off? And Serpico is more agile than Silat, the man who can catch arrows in mid flight and survived a fight with Guts is more agile than Serpico.

Well Serpico survived twice against Guts you know...  :ganishka:
Title: Re: Berserk Guidebook
Post by: Feeblecursedone on October 01, 2016, 04:00:05 PM
Had a pretty good laugh reading about Guts standing over 200 cm, like in what universe has that happened? Also im not sure how exactly is Casca more Agile than Guts who can move like typhoon carrying a super large sword and heavy armour. Oh well.
Title: Re: Berserk Guidebook
Post by: MrFlibble on October 01, 2016, 04:43:27 PM
Well Serpico survived twice against Guts you know...  :ganishka:
Yeah, but he cheated.
Title: Re: Berserk Guidebook
Post by: volatilecurry on October 01, 2016, 04:52:22 PM
"Burkilaka" just sounds so wrong that it calls everything else into question for me. I'm assuming a lot of these names are simply translations of how they're pronounced phonetically, which puts us in the same boat as "Guts" -- which I guess they didn't use because they knew better.

Is Locks that far off though? How is his name supposed to be pronounced in Japanese? Is it like "Loksu" or like "lokusu" or does it even make a difference?

Likewise, what is the actual difference between Erika and Erica? Sure we can favor one over the other in English but the difference is completely arbitrary. Does Japanese have any way of distinguishing between the two or are you just preferringthe K spelling because it was already established?
Title: Re: Berserk Guidebook
Post by: Aazealh on October 01, 2016, 07:35:35 PM
I'm assuming a lot of these names are simply translations of how they're pronounced phonetically

They are transliterations, not translations. That means they are transcribed from one kind of writing (a Japanese syllabary) to another (the Latin alphabet). In the absence of a reliable spelling, many things must be taken into account in order for us to appreciate what they might be like. Among them, maybe the most important one is to determine whether the word might have been transliterated from another language to Japanese to begin with. In that case, we have to try and reverse engineer what that language could be. I feel that this kind of discussion falls outside the scope of this thread though.

Is Locks that far off though? How is his name supposed to be pronounced in Japanese? Is it like "Loksu" or like "lokusu" or does it even make a difference?

Likewise, what is the actual difference between Erika and Erica? Sure we can favor one over the other in English but the difference is completely arbitrary. Does Japanese have any way of distinguishing between the two or are you just preferringthe K spelling because it was already established?

In Japanese there is no difference, which is why Japanese people don't care in the first place. His name is "ロクス". That sounds like "ROKUSU". "Locks" is a possible transliteration for it, among others. It could also be "Rocks" or "Rocus" or "Lokus" and so on. "エリカ" could be "Erica" or "Erika" or more. It's the same for every name. There is no way of distinguishing (outside of smart guessing) besides being told about it.

As for why people care... I guess it comes from a desire to know the correct spellings and write names properly? I mean I personally wrote "Erica" with a 'c' for 15 years, but since it's been confirmed to be spelled with a 'k', I'm writing it like that. It's not a matter of preference, it's about getting it right. And I'm only pointing out the discrepancy in this case because it calls the reliability of the guidebook into question. By the way, you say "Burkilaka" sounds so wrong and all that, but it's no different from the rest. It's a possible transliteration for "バーキラカ".
Title: Re: Berserk Guidebook
Post by: Pink-Dark-Boy on October 01, 2016, 10:03:13 PM
Fucking hell this is abysmal. Schierke has the same mental strength as Guts? so if need be, Schierke could cut her arm off? And Serpico is more agile than Silat, the man who can catch arrows in mid flight and survived a fight with Guts is more agile than Serpico.

If memory serves me correctly, I think Serpico was able to intercept Ganishkas lightning bolt and was able to jump in the air to strike one of the steps (with the sylph sword) before it could cease to be. Which requires extremely quick reflexes I'd say.
Title: Re: Berserk Guidebook
Post by: N7Paladin on October 02, 2016, 04:20:15 PM
They are transliterations, not translations. That means they are transcribed from one kind of writing (a Japanese syllabary) to another (the Latin alphabet). In the absence of a reliable spelling, many things must be taken into account in order for us to appreciate what they might be like. Among them, maybe the most important one is to determine whether the word might have been transliterated from another language to Japanese to begin with. In that case, we have to try and reverse engineer what that language could be. I feel that this kind of discussion falls outside the scope of this thread though.

In Japanese there is no difference, which is why Japanese people don't care in the first place. His name is "ロクス". That sounds like "ROKUSU". "Locks" is a possible transliteration for it, among others. It could also be "Rocks" or "Rocus" or "Lokus" and so on. "エリカ" could be "Erica" or "Erika" or more. It's the same for every name. There is no way of distinguishing (outside of smart guessing) besides being told about it.

As for why people care... I guess it comes from a desire to know the correct spellings and write names properly? I mean I personally wrote "Erica" with a 'c' for 15 years, but since it's been confirmed to be spelled with a 'k', I'm writing it like that. It's not a matter of preference, it's about getting it right. And I'm only pointing out the discrepancy in this case because it calls the reliability of the guidebook into question. By the way, you say "Burkilaka" sounds so wrong and all that, but it's no different from the rest. It's a possible transliteration for "バーキラカ".


I had some questions similar to curry's so I appreciate your explanations of those, Aazealh. Thanks!
Title: Re: Berserk Guidebook
Post by: Sancho on October 13, 2016, 08:45:13 PM
My copy arrived today. Though i'm somewhat disappointed for the unrealiability of the informations i'm still happy for the purchase, there are some contents that make the guidebook worth to read it, like JMP mentioned.

That interview is like the best content of the guidebook. I'm envying japanese speakers so much right now.

About those names and ages, maybe there's something i still don't get, but why they didn't just ask Miura those informations? I'm sure he wouldn't have hesitated to provide them with more correct informations, since it was a guidebook about his own manga that was to be published. The fact that some of the names have a transliteration different from the official ones pretty much confirm they didn't even bother to ask him. It baffles me, really.

In the book i noticed there's a part dedicated to the God Hand. Any japanese expert knows if some precious informations are reported there? (though judging by the blunders on the characters stats i somewhat doubt it  :schierke:)
Title: Re: Berserk Guidebook
Post by: Walter on October 14, 2016, 01:17:32 AM
About those names and ages, maybe there's something i still don't get, but why they didn't just ask Miura those informations? I'm sure he wouldn't have hesitated to provide them with more correct informations, since it was a guidebook about his own manga that was to be published. The fact that some of the names have a transliteration different from the official ones pretty much confirm they didn't even bother to ask him. It baffles me, really.

I think it's an indication of just how disorganized the process for creating this thing probably was. The trouble is, we don't know whether they asked for his input or not, or whether these numbers ARE his input. All we know is that it's not consistent.

Any japanese expert knows if some precious informations are reported there? (though judging by the blunders on the characters stats i somewhat doubt it  :schierke:)

You shouldn't expect any shocking information in the guidebook. It's just not the proper place to disclose revelations. Those are for the story itself. This is a recap of what we already know all wedged into one place. Anyway, I'm no expert, but a few weeks ago, out of curiosity, I did look at the God Hand pages and try my unskilled hand at a rough estimation of what's said. I focused on those big blocks of kanji, which as it turns out, describe the powers each God Hand have demonstrated. But it's uh... not very authoritative or complete. And please don't hold my feet to the fire on the exact wording here. I'm not a translator, just someone who can run kanji through some basic dictionaries.

Void: Bending time and space
Ubik: Peer through time and space
Conrad: Reshape the earth* (probably not the best word. It refers to him raising the altar, and growing from the faces at the Eclipse.)
Slan: Use wings as both offense and defense (fucking seriously, that's all they could come up with?)
Femto: They use four kanji that reference grabbing something from a distance, akin to telekinesis ... which isn't completely accurate for how his power works
Title: Re: Berserk Guidebook
Post by: jackson_hurley on October 14, 2016, 01:24:17 PM


Void: Bending time and space
Ubik: Peer through time and space
Conrad: Reshape the earth* (probably not the best word. It refers to him raising the altar, and growing from the faces at the Eclipse.)
Slan: Use wings as both offense and defense (fucking seriously, that's all they could come up with?)
Femto: They use four kanji that reference grabbing something from a distance, akin to telekinesis ... which isn't completely accurate for how his power works

haha I think we could have figured these "powers" ourself without the text. Thanx for trying your hand at that though. Talking about the God Hand, I can't wait to see more of them!  :femto:
Title: Re: Berserk Guidebook
Post by: Natt_Himmel on October 14, 2016, 05:42:42 PM
Quote
Void: Bending time and space
Ubik: Peer through time and space
Conrad: Reshape the earth* (probably not the best word. It refers to him raising the altar, and growing from the faces at the Eclipse.)
Slan: Use wings as both offense and defense (fucking seriously, that's all they could come up with?)
Femto: They use four kanji that reference grabbing something from a distance, akin to telekinesis ... which isn't completely accurate for how his power works

Oh wow. The Slan just feels really lazy. Saying she has the power to reanimate herself would have been much more interesting in my opinion.  :rickert:
Title: Re: Berserk Guidebook
Post by: Sancho on October 16, 2016, 12:35:56 PM
Void: Bending time and space
Ubik: Peer through time and space
Conrad: Reshape the earth* (probably not the best word. It refers to him raising the altar, and growing from the faces at the Eclipse.)
Slan: Use wings as both offense and defense (fucking seriously, that's all they could come up with?)
Femto: They use four kanji that reference grabbing something from a distance, akin to telekinesis ... which isn't completely accurate for how his power works


Thanks for those translations!

That's ridiculous, instead of mentioning their powers it would have been far more interesting to summarize their individual actions, roles and personality. I guess that does tell us more about Miura's (lack of) involvement in creating this guidebook.
Title: Re: Berserk Guidebook
Post by: Walter on October 16, 2016, 01:55:35 PM

Thanks for those translations!

That's ridiculous, instead of mentioning their powers it would have been far more interesting to summarize their individual actions, roles and personality. I guess that does tell us more about Miura's (lack of) involvement in creating this guidebook.

Well like I said, I just worked on one element of each page. There's more text that I didn't bother with.
Title: Re: Berserk Guidebook
Post by: Aazealh on October 16, 2016, 01:59:05 PM
That's ridiculous, instead of mentioning their powers it would have been far more interesting to summarize their individual actions, roles and personality. I guess that does tell us more about Miura's (lack of) involvement in creating this guidebook.

There's no doubt to me that Miura had minimal involvement with this. Of note is that he provided a small commentary for each character profile (marked specifically as being from him). Those are obviously valuable, but it's about a single sentence each time and nothing really new for long time readers.

As for the rest... I think it shows in many ways that it's not directly from him, from simple inconsistencies to those descriptions that are more guesses than anything else. Then there's stuff like the "kawaii" section featuring Genon (or is it Guénon?)'s sex slaves, two of the women Wyald kills, Theresia's mom riding the Baphomet statue, Kushan children being take into slavery by the pirates in Vritannis, Hannah as troll spawns are about to burst out of her belly, Midland captives being lowered into the Daka machine... That's mixed in with Erika with a shoe on her head and Isidro stealing apples. Great job to whoever compiled that. :schierke:

It's weird because I appreciate the effort and care that went into this book, but too much of it feels sloppy or of little interest.
Title: Re: Berserk Guidebook
Post by: MrFlibble on October 16, 2016, 02:29:32 PM
Void: Bending time and space
Ubik: Peer through time and space
Conrad: Reshape the earth* (probably not the best word. It refers to him raising the altar, and growing from the faces at the Eclipse.)
Slan: Use wings as both offense and defense (fucking seriously, that's all they could come up with?)
Femto: They use four kanji that reference grabbing something from a distance, akin to telekinesis ... which isn't completely accurate for how his power works

Kek, I always assumed that they all have the same powers, we only ever see the tip of the iceberg in terms of their full capabilities anyway, but they're writing about the powers we have seen each of the God Hand them use as if they're the signature ability of each character.
Title: Re: Berserk Guidebook
Post by: Walter on October 19, 2016, 06:03:36 PM
As for the rest... I think it shows in many ways that it's not directly from him, from simple inconsistencies to those descriptions that are more guesses than anything else. Then there's stuff like the "kawaii" section featuring Genon (or is it Guénon?)'s sex slaves, two of the women Wyald kills, Theresia's mom riding the Baphomet statue, Kushan children being take into slavery by the pirates in Vritannis, Hannah as troll spawns are about to burst out of her belly, Midland captives being lowered into the Daka machine... That's mixed in with Erika with a shoe on her head and Isidro stealing apples. Great job to whoever compiled that. :schierke:

It's weird because I appreciate the effort and care that went into this book, but too much of it feels sloppy or of little interest.

Yeah, mine just arrived recently, and I have to say, I'm a little disappointed at the offering. So much of the content feels half-assed, or just plain bizarre (including the utterly tone-deaf selections in the aforementioned "kawaii" section).  The best material in it is the new interview, the 348 preview and the color illustrations. But really, all this guidebook did for me was whet my appetite for a true artbook.

Kek, I always assumed that they all have the same powers, we only ever see the tip of the iceberg in terms of their full capabilities anyway, but they're writing about the powers we have seen each of the God Hand them use as if they're the signature ability of each character.

We can't know for sure, but I think they have specialties. We've seen each of them use certain powers consistently (Void always delivers the brand, Ubik always is the one to "peer through time and space.")
Title: Re: Berserk Guidebook
Post by: DANGERDOOOOM on December 01, 2016, 01:57:01 AM
juka90 posted this translated interview (https://www.reddit.com/r/Berserk/comments/5frs99/berserk_guidebook_interview_full_translation_part//) from the Berserk Guidebook on the reddit berserk sub. Looks like there is more to come.

Title: Re: Berserk Guidebook
Post by: Walter on December 01, 2016, 03:22:24 AM
Both parts are posted.

Part 1: https://www.reddit.com/r/Berserk/comments/5frs99/berserk_guidebook_interview_full_translation_part/

Part 2: https://www.reddit.com/r/Berserk/comments/5frta8/berserk_guidebook_interview_full_translation_part/
Title: Re: Berserk Guidebook
Post by: ApostleBob on December 01, 2016, 05:58:11 AM
Very nice. It's interesting to hear his approach on building characters and the role of villains. I also like how he has a symmetry in mind with different relationship dynamics like the Egg Apostle being the lowest and birthing the highest.

This also confirms that the way Miura approaches storytelling is the gardener method. He doesn't do elaborate preplanning, he just goes where his characters take him. What's exceptional about it though is how consistent he is, and how well he'll do call backs to earlier themes and web his world together.
Title: Re: Berserk Guidebook
Post by: Walter on December 01, 2016, 05:31:13 PM
The interview is truly incredible. There are so many nuggets of information, I could see us poring over this thing for weeks to come.

Some highlights:

This also confirms that the way Miura approaches storytelling is the gardener method. He doesn't do elaborate preplanning, he just goes where his characters take him.

I know you qualified this by saying he doesn't do "elaborate" preplanning, but I think you're taking his words at face value a little too much. Miura says that he doesn't plan the specifics out for scenes, instead letting those play out when he draws them. But he does plan out the big story events well in advance, and offers a great example for how those kinds of things connect: He planned for the Berserk Armor (Volume 26) back when the Beast of Darkness first made an appearance (Volume 16). That's in keeping with many other long-alluded to things in the series, like the current shape of the world being teased by the Enoch Village assault.

Miura's an extremely modest guy about his abilities. So you'll never find him saying something like: "I plan everything in advance." Instead he just coyly talks about how he likes to leave it up to the moment. But clearly he does make some pretty concrete planning decisions well in advance, before fleshing out the panel by panel execution when he's at the drawing board.
Title: Re: Berserk Guidebook
Post by: ApostleBob on December 01, 2016, 08:38:24 PM
I know you qualified this by saying he doesn't do "elaborate" preplanning, but I think you're taking his words at face value a little too much. Miura says that he doesn't plan the specifics out for scenes, instead letting those play out when he draws them. But he does plan out the big story events well in advance, and offers a great example for how those kinds of things connect: He planned for the Berserk Armor (Volume 26) back when the Beast of Darkness first made an appearance (Volume 16). That's in keeping with many other long-alluded to things in the series, like the current shape of the world being teased by the Enoch Village assault.

Miura's an extremely modest guy about his abilities. So you'll never find him saying something like: "I plan everything in advance." Instead he just coyly talks about how he likes to leave it up to the moment. But clearly he does make some pretty concrete planning decisions well in advance, before fleshing out the panel by panel execution when he's at the drawing board.

I think we're mostly in agreement. Miura clearly has ideas of where he wants to take the story, though the way he explains it sounds like he allows the specifics to come to him when he gets there. He allows for flexibility based on how he's grown. Obviously some of this stuff is very planned out like his decision for the eclipse as soon as he created the Band of the Falcons, or his decision to keep Casca around as a survivor to ensure that Guts had a constant reminder of what was done to him and to fuel his vengeance. But he seems to indicate early on here that he didn't quite know about the specifics of the Eclipse in the early volumes, or even about Casca, but he was smart enough to leave things open for future ideas. He's excellent at this; just look at Flora's Tree mansion coming back to be incorporated with the World Spiral Tree a decade later.

The gardener method was an idea I heard from George R.R. Martin once: '“I think there are two types of writers, the architects and the gardeners. The architects plan everything ahead of time, like an architect building a house. They know how many rooms are going to be in the house, what kind of roof they're going to have, where the wires are going to run, what kind of plumbing there's going to be. They have the whole thing designed and blueprinted out before they even nail the first board up. The gardeners dig a hole, drop in a seed and water it. They kind of know what seed it is, they know if planted a fantasy seed or mystery seed or whatever. But as the plant comes up and they water it, they don't know how many branches it's going to have, they find out as it grows. And I'm much more a gardener than an architect.”

It makes me wonder if Miura knows how he wants to end the series, or if he allows his characters and the seeds he's planted take him there in an interesting route. That's not a critique at all, I just think it makes for a very original story that's very rarely cliche.

BTW I love his line about how if you want to make a story as good as Star Wars, don't watch Star Wars. Instead watch the things that George Lucas watched to get inspired.
Title: Re: Berserk Guidebook
Post by: Aazealh on December 01, 2016, 09:47:43 PM
I think we're mostly in agreement. Miura clearly has ideas of where he wants to take the story, though the way he explains it sounds like he allows the specifics to come to him when he gets there. He allows for flexibility based on how he's grown. Obviously some of this stuff is very planned out like his decision for the eclipse as soon as he created the Band of the Falcons, or his decision to keep Casca around as a survivor to ensure that Guts had a constant reminder of what was done to him and to fuel his vengeance. But he seems to indicate early on here that he didn't quite know about the specifics of the Eclipse in the early volumes, or even about Casca, but he was smart enough to leave things open for future ideas. He's excellent at this; just look at Flora's Tree mansion coming back to be incorporated with the World Spiral Tree a decade later.

I don't mean to be rude but I don't think any of this is very complicated. Miura obviously doesn't plan every little detail in each episode decades in advance, that's just impossible to do. He has an overarching idea of what's going on, of where the story is going, and of milestones along the way, and all of that evolves as the story progresses. Then while drawing each issue he adjusts and refines and gets a better view of the stuff in the immediate future. That's common sense and frankly it's not even really new information since he'd talked about that process in the past.

It makes me wonder if Miura knows how he wants to end the series, or if he allows his characters and the seeds he's planted take him there in an interesting route.

At this point I think that he does. He's pretty clearly been laying down the foundations for it for a while (one could say it started with Femto's incarnation and the fact Guts & Casca's son was taken), so I would expect him to have a pretty good idea of the general path the story will follow from now on, all the way to the end. But as discussed, that doesn't mean the details of it are set in stone.
Title: Re: Berserk Guidebook
Post by: Theozilla on December 01, 2016, 09:49:51 PM
Great interview. I loved his description of how Farnese's character (initially) could essentially be described as an "office lady who joined a dangerous cult". Isma being something that Miura didn't initial was also another interesting factoid, same with Miura describing Isidro as being a "Shōwa" child.
Also even though Miura described his initial/primary reasoning for keeping Casca alive after the Eclipse as "cold, calculating move" (I'm also interested to see how Puella's eventual translation differs from this one, as a few lines did read slightly awkward), I feel like he affirmed what Walter and Aazealh (and others) have been saying for while that Casca dying (or being removed from the narrative in some other manner) would effectively end, or at least greatly diminish the story's flow/emotional motivation, which, in addition to Elfhelm being hailed as major milestone for the narrative, is further evidence that should effectively quell any anxieties people might still have that Casca's restoration won't happen.