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Berserk => Current Episodes => Topic started by: Sareth on June 20, 2017, 03:08:41 AM

Title: Episode 351
Post by: Sareth on June 20, 2017, 03:08:41 AM
Preorder here

http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/product/NEOBK-2106124

Reminder that Volume 39 will be releasing this Friday as well

http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/product/NEOBK-2091534
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Aazealh on June 20, 2017, 09:14:26 AM
Thanks Sareth!
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Hitoshura on June 20, 2017, 10:34:59 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/fN4Cu23.jpg)
The manga will be back on hiatus until winter after this issue.
https://twitter.com/earlbox/status/877121642278690816
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: RaffoBaffo on June 20, 2017, 10:39:34 AM
Well, it was pretty obvious.
Well, more importantly, that seems like a pretty interesting page.
I smell a cliffhanger.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Sareth on June 20, 2017, 10:40:24 AM
Oh God fucking damn it...
Not that I wasn't half anticipating it but Christ, this is such as tease.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Mangetsu on June 20, 2017, 11:14:17 AM
Looks kinda like a brain, may be the time when Void handed out the sacrifical marks?
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Sareth on June 20, 2017, 11:32:32 AM
Looks kinda like a brain, may be the time when Void handed out the sacrifical marks?

Looks like brambles growing around something.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Aazealh on June 20, 2017, 11:51:29 AM
Definitely brambles that are surrounding something and preventing access to it. Egg-shaped it seems. Very thematically relevant. Excited to see more!
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: jackson_hurley on June 20, 2017, 11:59:53 AM
Definitely brambles that are surrounding something and preventing access to it. Egg-shaped it seems. Very thematically relevant. Excited to see more!

Could that picture be the begenning of the end for the dream adventure? I can't wait to learn more. I've rarely been that excited about a serie. We've said it before but I'll say it again: This is a great time to be a Berserk fan and I'm really glad I can hang out here and experience it with people who really love the serie. I don't have many freinds reading it or liking it as much as I do so thanx for existing Skullknight and it's members!

Rambling over. Now to wait for it.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Walter on June 20, 2017, 12:49:39 PM
I'd guess that's the final piece being protected by the thorns. Exciting stuff!
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: DANGERDOOOOM on June 20, 2017, 01:02:15 PM
Looks kinda like a brain, may be the time when Void handed out the sacrifical marks?

My first thought when I saw this was when Griffith was transitioning into Femto up on the altar
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Griffith on June 20, 2017, 01:15:28 PM
The manga will be back on hiatus until winter after this issue.

I sure hope they fix Casca and reunite her with Guts in the next episode then...  :judo:

I've been spoiled by this pace. I guess another half a year won't be so bad. :guts:  ..:sad:

Definitely brambles that are surrounding something and preventing access to it. Egg-shaped it seems. Very thematically relevant.
My first thought when I saw this was when Griffith was transitioning into Femto up on the altar

Yeah, considering our assumptions about the mountain/shape in the distance being the hand and the final piece having to do with the Eclipse Ceremony, this is very reminiscent of Femto's conception/birth. Doesn't mean it will actually mirror that (since what we don't know ahead still outweighs what we're guessing; e.g. thorns), but it's a very interesting possibility nonetheless. Maybe whatever likely Femto analog prevents them from reaching Casca will ultimately be destroyed by her upon her reemergence, of her own choosing; that'd certainly be a clever way to address the dilemma of whether they're forcing her to come back or not, and her saving herself to save them would be a nice twist as well. It'll probably be more straightforward/slow than that on Casca's end though, with more heavy lifting for Schierke and Farnese of course; I'm just trying to throw Casca back into action and make her top dog ASAP. :casca:
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: IncantatioN on June 20, 2017, 01:41:12 PM
Thanks a ton Sareth, can't wait to read this new episode.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: RaffoBaffo on June 20, 2017, 01:54:21 PM
https://imgur.com/a/V1jxe
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Mangetsu on June 20, 2017, 02:09:43 PM
https://imgur.com/a/V1jxe

Higher quality https://imgur.com/a/oHodA
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Rhombaad on June 20, 2017, 02:11:07 PM
As usual, that's one hell of a cliff-hanger. Bravo, Miura. :ubik: I can't wait to read the whole thing.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Squiddot on June 20, 2017, 02:16:10 PM
Thanks for the links RaffoBaffo and Mangetsu!

Nice! Miura's busting out the old HR Giger branded crate of phallus-monsters I see. We haven't seen that aesthetic for a while. Though how could we not have them here?

Fun to see Farnese has also caught onto the rules of the dreamland. Though her dream didn't have a lot of potential 'items' to bring through, so we may only get Mozgus.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: jackson_hurley on June 20, 2017, 02:25:21 PM
Wow! This could be one of the most f* up episode yet, and with reason. I'm getting anxious.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Griffith on June 20, 2017, 02:28:14 PM
Whoa, didn't expect to see Mozgus, but it makes sense for Casca and Farnese of course, so we're getting some post-Eclipse action, and does that mean the dream defenses are becoming more personal (could a burned Flora show up :magni:) or is it just a coincidence?

Also, those monster designs... forget "phallic" resemblance, those are some straight up anthropomorphized penises with penis arms (I'm surprised they don't have penis fingers=)! Not to mention the Golem choking them out. Miura's not beating around the bush. :carcus:
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Tabris on June 20, 2017, 02:35:37 PM
Incredible as always. I cannot wait. This is already pretty damn chilling. The trees and soil are absolutely disgusting. When people complain Berserk is too 'lighthearted' they seem to forget moments like this can happen. Not to mention this is only the beginning of the real fuckery. I imagine the first chunk of book 40 is going to be pretty rough.

As for the hiatus, I figured (as I imagine quite a few people did as well) that one was coming up this episode. Seemed obvious with the simul-book release and the trash heap Berserk anime ending at the same time. Doesn't matter to me at all though. Would rather Miura do whatever the hell he has got to do to continue making this incredible series.

Though we at least know it's 'winter' and not 'til next time!'. But 'Winter' means Dec 29th at the earliest I think?
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Cyrus Jong on June 20, 2017, 02:41:52 PM
These nightmare demons are looking more and more disturbing. Those "pill bugs" are reminding me of Mara from Shin Megami Tensei, though they're likely based on Conrad with a a blend of this guy (http://i.imgur.com/5Qtb685.jpg). Creepy either way.

I just hope that the continuation of the manga isn't meant to coincide with another lousy anime.

Whoa, didn't expect to see Mozgus, but it makes sense for Casca and Farnese of course, so we're getting some post-Eclipse action, and does that mean the dream defenses are becoming more personal (could a burned Flora show up :magni:) or is it just a coincidence?

I don't think it's post-Eclipse imagery we're seeing. I think the Mozgus we're seeing is Farnese using the "washing stone" from her dream.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: IncantatioN on June 20, 2017, 02:49:32 PM
Thanks Raffo~ngetsu (combo attack!) for those previews.

Also, those monster designs... forget "phallic" resemblance, those are some straight up anthropomorphized penises with penis arms (I'm surprised they don't have penis fingers=)! Not to mention the Golem choking them out. Miura's not beating around the bush. :carcus:

Freakish looking indeed.

Can't wait to read the entire episode to get a fuller sense of the forest and it's design, with all those sharp pointy things protruding from the ground making it hard to walk or move during battle.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Griffith on June 20, 2017, 03:00:48 PM
I don't think it's post-Eclipse imagery we're seeing. I think the Mozgus we're seeing is Farnese using the "washing stone" from her dream.

Ah! That makes sense. My workplace image comprehension leaves something to be desired. :mozgus:

Can't wait to read the entire episode to get a fuller sense of the forest and it's design, with all those sharp pointy things protruding from the ground making it hard to walk or move during battle.

Yeah, the hellscape death forest would be a standout in its own right if not for the eye popping creature designs.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Aazealh on June 20, 2017, 03:03:22 PM
Impressive, Miura's not shying away from the big topic. As ballsy (without pun) as the decision to feature the rape in the Eclipse to begin with. It's also very cool to see Farnese using the Mozgus wash stone from her dream to fight. And the Lord of Rotting Roots! He's right at home in this dump! Speaking of which, the mountain itself doesn't disappoint, it's completely nightmarish.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Sareth on June 20, 2017, 03:23:45 PM
Holy shit, Farnese and Schierke are fighting cock monsters. So much for "Berserk is too lighthearted, Miura doesn't have it in him anymore," that whiny edge lords always claim.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: MrFlibble on June 20, 2017, 03:32:11 PM
Holy shit, Farnese and Schierke are fighting cock monsters. So much for "Berserk is too lighthearted, Miura doesn't have it in him anymore," that whiny edge lords always claim.

"Oh my god the latest volumes are set in a quasi utopia and an Elfen paradise isolated from the rest of the world, where's the rape and gore?1!, also Isn't the story getting slow?, all we've had so far is the reveal of Elfhelm, the Flowerstorm ruler, Casca's curing and revelation of what the Spiral Tree really is"
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: jackson_hurley on June 20, 2017, 03:35:46 PM
We can see Farnese holding the tiny-casca sprite in her hands. It makes me Wonder if she's gonna talk a little bit more then last time.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Aazealh on June 20, 2017, 03:39:11 PM
So much for "Berserk is too lighthearted, Miura doesn't have it in him anymore," that whiny edge lords always claim.

We could spend all day explaining why stupid people's opinions from other parts of the Internet are incredibly dumb and plain wrong, but frankly that's not a very good use of anyone's time. Hell, it could be its own thread without problem with how much idiocy gets thrown around!
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Demon Knight on June 20, 2017, 03:40:30 PM
Can't wait for this episode. I really hope they fix Casca. I wonder how Guts will react to it really. And i wonder how Casca will react seeing Guts' appearance this way, having one eye, one hand, and a little white hair. But the most important, what will happen after this. Let's not forget Skull Knight's speech in the beach 
And Skull Knight himself did not show up for a long time now. I missed him  :badbone:
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: themorningmoon on June 20, 2017, 03:44:25 PM
We can see Farnese holding the tiny-casca sprite in her hands. It makes me Wonder if she's gonna talk a little bit more then last time.
Totally missed that! Thanks for pointing it out. I would hope we hear more from her this episode - since she has progressed to the point where she can now speak, it would seem strange not to have her speak again this time. But then again, the words she spoke last time were so important, maybe that's all we'll hear from her for now. :???: Time will tell!
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: jackson_hurley on June 20, 2017, 03:48:32 PM
I am also scared for her. I mean, would it not be more safe to put her back in the coffin? It would be a disaster if she was to get lost somehow in that infernal forest of gore. Now I'm sure nothing will happen the to sprite actually but I'm still scared. this is how the story gets to me!
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Menosgade on June 20, 2017, 04:38:47 PM
Totally missed that! Thanks for pointing it out. I would hope we hear more from her this episode - since she has progressed to the point where she can now speak, it would seem strange not to have her speak again this time. But then again, the words she spoke last time were so important, maybe that's all we'll hear from her for now. :???: Time will tell!

Precisely. She said a lot with few words. The dream itself is already conveying her past and feelings, making words ~kinda~ superfluous. To me she feels like a silent child that'd speak when there's a really good motif.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Aazealh on June 20, 2017, 07:10:55 PM
The title is: "Forest of Corpses and Spiky Cedars". The petals have led the girls to the top of the mountain, as they expected. Their last line is "that is the last fragment". Huge cliffhanger, as expected.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Kaladin on June 20, 2017, 08:16:50 PM
Man from the creatures in elfhelm to the ones in this episode and now to see these new designs, this man miura never runs out of cool ass, creative designs to draw. The forest and that final spread is perfect, Farnese and Schierke are disturbed and exhausted and they haven't even seen that final memory, pretty crazy how it's well guarded. The art in this episode looks beautiful as well, Eagerly awaiting the next episode.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Aazealh on June 20, 2017, 08:48:02 PM
The forest and that final spread is perfect, Farnese and Schierke are disturbed and exhausted and they haven't even seen that final memory, pretty crazy how it's well guarded.

From puella: Schierke says at some point "If we didn't know that it's a dream, we might even faint."
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Mangetsu on June 20, 2017, 09:07:05 PM
Immense episode. I love of all of this. Crazy to think that Elfhelm started on a very lighthearted note, and although we all knew that this kind of stuff was coming, in the big picture it creates a very well balanced atmosphere for this section. Those penis monsters  remind me a lot of Hr. Giger designs for ''sexual'' stuff. Love the inclusion of Mozgus a lot too! Very clever use for it. Im also glad that Miura still did his own thing, instead of using the big hand for the depiction of the eclipse.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: RaffoBaffo on June 20, 2017, 09:33:36 PM
Korean Scan:
https://files.fm/u/3x3uwcfb
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Kaladin on June 20, 2017, 09:34:22 PM
From puella: Schierke says at some point "If we didn't know that it's a dream, we might even faint."

Wow so they have to constantly keep themselves in check while dealing with the creatures in this hellish scene, they can do it, i expect nothing less from our girls!

Immense episode. I love of all of this. Crazy to think that Elfhelm started on a very lighthearted note, and although we all knew that this kind of stuff was coming, in the big picture it creates a very well balanced atmosphere for this section. Those penis monsters  remind me a lot of Hr Giger designs for ''sexual'' stuff. Love the inclusion of Mozugs a lot too! Very clever use for it. Im also glad that Miura still did his own thing, instead of using the big hand for the depiction of the eclipse.


the sight of mozgus is always welcome, anytime any place  :ganishka:

This is a minor detail but i wonder how they will reach the final fragment, will they send the good ol' golems to break the branches?, will they use magic? will they fly over the branches to get close to the center? i wonder.

I'm also looking forward to the Sovereign of the flowerstorm's intervention soon, if the situation gets too intense and the girls are too tired or how she will pull them out of casca's mind.

Quote
Korean Scan:
https://files.fm/u/3x3uwcfb

Thank you! really loving the variety in these other creatures, and it looks like that manifestation of mozgus is helping the girls!
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: jackson_hurley on June 20, 2017, 09:39:42 PM
Wow! Thnk RaffBaff  :guts:

Ouf. This is rough stuff to watch. Beautifully illustrated and depicted as always.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Aazealh on June 21, 2017, 01:45:02 AM
A translation of the Korean text from puella. As usual, there might be inaccuracies.

Title: Forest of corpses and thorny cedars

Page 1

Farnese: Horrible
Schierke: ...A forest of corpses and thorny cedars.
Schierke: If we weren't aware that we're in a dream, we might faint.

Page 2-3

Schierke: The petals are, as expected, leading us to the top of the mountain.
Schierke: Let's go.

Page 4

Schierke: Be careful.
Schierke: As I said before, our bodies might be affected if we're hurt in this dream.
Farnese: Ah...yes.

Farnese: Thank you, Guts.

Farnese: ...Anyway, this is a terrible scene, indeed.
Farnese: What kind of experience on earth brought her to this...

Page 5

Schierke: ...I must say, if an accident that is horrible enough to have caused her to bear this kind of image happens to us, our mind will collapse.

Farnese: If you're scared, you can go back into the coffin...

Farnese: ...If you're in danger, keep your head down.

Page 6-7

Farnese: Eek!
Schierke: They arouse even more physiological aversion.

Page 8

Schierke: Lady of the Underwater Depths

Schierke: Golems! Fight them!

Page 10

Farnese: Ahh

Farnese: Outnumbered... We can't withstand them only with Golems...

Farnese: Teacher, (they are also) at the back...!
Schierke: We're going to be surrounded!

Schierke: To get out of here...!

Schierke: What's this pack...?

Schierke: ...A tree root.

Schierke: ...Oh yeah, this is...

Schierke: Following the pledge, hurry to come out!

Page 11

Schierke: Lord of the Rotting Roots

Lord of the Rotting Roots: Rot.

Page 12

Schierke: Now is the time!
Schierke: Fire Wheel, open a way for us.

Schierke: Now is our chance to go...!

Page 14-15

Schierke: When we get out of this field of organs, we'll reach the foot of that mountain.
Schierke: Let's hang in there...!
Farnese: Yes!

Farnese: Let's keep going just a bit more...
Schierke: The trees are so thick here that the big monsters won't be able to chase us.

Page 16

Farnese: We got caught!
Schierke: We're in trouble...!

Schierke: I don't have anything to cast a spell at hand. Nothing at all.

Schierke: We have no choice but to run as fast as our feet will carry us...!
Farnese: No... no way. We're simply going to get caught...

Farnese: My Serpents of Thorns... can't cope with such big enemies...

Farnese: This is...

Page 17

Mozgus: Immediate Divine retribution!

Page 18

Mozgus: Gooood Preeesssss!!

Schierke: Farnese, that is...
Farnese: I think I also brought him from my dream.

Page 19

Schierke: Come on! Let's climb!

Farnese: The number of branches is increasing...!

Schierke: No! The passage will be blocked! Everybody hurry up!

?: The more we advance, the bigger the hostility of the world becomes.

Page 20-21

? : It seems like the master of the dream refuses for us to open up our eyes...

Farnese: We..we got through the crisis...

Page 22

Farnese: It's...

Schierke: This is the last fragment
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Johnny Apples on June 21, 2017, 03:10:39 AM
Wow!!! A sensational episode, with the biggest cliffhanger I've seen in years  :ubik:


Farnese: My Serpents of Thorns... can't cope with such big enemies...

Farnese: This is...

Page 17

Mozgus: Immediate Divine retribution!

Page 18

Mozgus: Gooood Preeesssss!!

Schierke: Farnese, that is...
Farnese: I think I also brought him from my dream.

It seems to me that Farnese's and Schierke's journey through Casca's dreams is almost as much about them opening up and expanding the scope of their own minds as it is about curing Casca's mind. In this particular scene, for example, Farnese is forced to think outside the box and improvise on the spot with Mozgus when every other witchcraft technique she and Schierke throw at the phallic-shaped monsters isn't working. I think for Farnese, this journey through Corridor of Dreams will be the kind of steep learning curve that will make her make her a great witch in her own right and allow her to shake off the "apprentice witch" label once and for all. Improvising, creative thinking, loosening up the cogs of her mind and overcoming the mental blocks that are holding her back - these are critical skills that cannot be taught in controlled classroom environments even under the best witches' tutelage (e.g Flora's mansion or the witches' school on Skellig) and Farnese must learn them "on the job." While we don't know how much the experience in the Corridor of Dreams is going to change Farnese, I don't doubt she will come out of this a much more powerful witch than she was ever before.

Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Cyrus Jong on June 21, 2017, 05:19:43 AM
Thanks for the translation, Puella. You work fast.

More neat and absolutely disgusting creatures. Millipedes are always cool, and I'm getting serious Wyald vibes from those...penis apes. But I find it especially interesting how much more of a clear and physical form they all have when compared to the shadowy and blob-like monstrosities encountered earlier. Even the landscape has a more defined shape with this forest of viscera. It seems Casca's mind gets progressively clearer around this specific memory, like this is what she's constantly dwelling on to expense of everything else. :sad:

I also just realized that if Schierke and Farnese were able to smuggle in the items they found in their respective dreams, among other things...then could it mean Farnese is carrying the Sylph Cloak, Dragon Slayer, and Berserker Armor as well? If so, things could get very cool or very scary soon.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Aazealh on June 21, 2017, 09:13:29 AM
While we don't know how much the experience in the Corridor of Dreams is going to change Farnese, I don't doubt she will come out of this a much more powerful witch than she was ever before.

I think this experience is more about personal development (for both Farnese and Schierke) than gaining "power". No doubt it will benefit them on several fronts, but the way you approach this feels rather reductive to me. And let's also not forget that there might be negative consequences for them in the end. Like Schierke said, direct exposure to what traumatized Casca would hurt them as well, and even just being wounded in that environment could have repercussions in the real world. So there's still a chance they'll come out of this with a few scars of their own.

I also just realized that if Schierke and Farnese were able to smuggle in the items they found in their respective dreams, among other things...then could it mean Farnese is carrying the Sylph Cloak, Dragon Slayer, and Berserker Armor as well?

These were the actual people in her dream (and not simply their clothes), just represented differently. I don't think it will come into play. Unless there is a final enemy guarding the "egg" in addition to the thorns, I think next episode will focus on them dealing with the painful memory of Casca's rape and then confronting her after the doll becomes whole.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Blade on June 21, 2017, 11:53:27 AM
Best part is Mozgus' catchphrase, lol.

"TENBATSU TEKIMEN GOD PRESS!!"   :mozgus:
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Mangetsu on June 21, 2017, 11:55:56 AM
Seriously though, who would have ever thought that there would be a scenario in which farnese makes use of Mozgus  :ganishka:
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Sareth on June 21, 2017, 12:26:55 PM
The Mozgus part made me crack up. :ganishka: Schierke's summons function very similar to their previous appearances, though multiple at once and without it taking time to cast. Farnese's Mozgus summon is just really out there; a his pseudo-apostle stone face with fucking chains and grinders in his mouth. That's awesome and hilarious.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Menosgade on June 21, 2017, 01:34:45 PM
Unfortunately this episode is bringing up some people that believe Casca was raped by the apostles before Femto in the eclipse (phallic creatures), and don't that want to understand that she was not.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Sareth on June 21, 2017, 02:06:58 PM
Unfortunately this episode is bringing up some people that believe Casca was raped by the apostles before Femto in the eclipse (phallic creatures), and don't that want to understand that she was not.

I thought she was, with how excited the apostles were to have a female sacrifice, the panel of her bleeding crotch, and the flashbacks during later sexual assaults. Or do you mean specifically penetrated by their genitals as opposed to tentacles and thorny tongues?
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Menosgade on June 21, 2017, 02:14:58 PM
I thought she was, with how excited the apostles were to have a female sacrifice, the panel of her bleeding crotch, and the flashbacks during later sexual assaults. Or do you mean specifically penetrated by their genitals as opposed to tentacles and thorny tongues?

She was "abused", but not really raped (penetrated) as how she was by Femto. The people that I argued with (only I had arguments btw) were convinced that she was raped by one of those tentacles with claws, even tho that is not shown, there was simply no time for that to happen and I don't see how she wouldn't be tore apart from inside.

I found a post where Aaz makes an extense and good explanation on this, if you want to read more. http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=14024.0
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: ApostleBob on June 21, 2017, 02:19:34 PM
Unfortunately this episode is bringing up some people that believe Casca was raped by the apostles before Femto in the eclipse (phallic creatures), and don't that want to understand that she was not.

It's always been a bit ambiguous, especially with the time gap between when we last see her and when Guts does. The flashbacks focusing on them don't help either. However it doesn't seem physically possible due to the size and shape of some of the apostles. Hopefully the coming episodes will lay all this to rest once and for all.

Regardless, Casca had a traumatic experience throughout the Eclipse. Even without raping her, the monstrous apostles were probably their hedonistic selves and left a deep impression.

EDIT: BTW Please note that I did NOT name the linked to topic that title.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Aazealh on June 21, 2017, 02:43:28 PM
Casca was not raped by the apostles. There isn't actually much ambiguity on the matter. The sequence of events in the Eclipse (with tension building up as an apostle gets ready to do the deed) wouldn't make sense otherwise. And by the way, the monsters in this episode aren't so much representations of the apostles as they are representations of the male genitalia. Which is what Casca is physiologically revulsed by... Because she was raped by Femto.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Griffith on June 21, 2017, 03:06:54 PM
I think this experience is more about personal development (for both Farnese and Schierke) than gaining "power". No doubt it will benefit them on several fronts, but the way you approach this feels rather reductive to me. And let's also not forget that there might be negative consequences for them in the end. Like Schierke said, direct exposure to what traumatized Casca would hurt them as well, and even just being wounded in that environment could have repercussions in the real world. So there's still a chance they'll come out of this with a few scars of their own.

These were the actual people in her dream (and not simply their clothes), just represented differently. I don't think it will come into play. Unless there is a final enemy guarding the "egg" in addition to the thorns, I think next episode will focus on them dealing with the painful memory of Casca's rape and then confronting her after the doll becomes whole.

I think we'll definitely get a final confrontation with the way everything has been setup and building, particularly the escalation of the monsters and our heroes' vulnerability in the dreamscape ("If you die in the Matrix..." =). I'm guessing they'll have to recover the memory and reconcile things with Casca while simultaneously fending off the attack (by throwing whatever they've got left at it). If they have to split their attention restoring Casca herself would be appropriate work for Farnese, actually. I'm also holding out hope Casca will ultimately banish everything wicked once restored, if it isn't automatic or some combination thereof.

Best part is Mozgus' catchphrase, lol.

"TENBATSU TEKIMEN GOD PRESS!!"   :mozgus:

This will be hard to top, ever, and a perfect match for such dirty, sinful monsters! :mozgus:

Unfortunately this episode is bringing up some people that believe Casca was raped by the apostles before Femto in the eclipse (phallic creatures), and don't that want to understand that she was not.
I thought she was, with how excited the apostles were to have a female sacrifice, the panel of her bleeding crotch, and the flashbacks during later sexual assaults. Or do you mean specifically penetrated by their genitals as opposed to tentacles and thorny tongues?

Yeah, we don't see that happen and actually see it prevented as Aaz points out, and there are practical/plot reasons for it to be Femto alone (the corruption of the child to become his vessel), but as far as the trauma goes I don't think it matters so much as she was violently assaulted and violated by them in facilitation of the rape, and they alone have been sufficient symbol of the horror of that whole experience. Otherwise, it's a weird thing to be important to people.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Aazealh on June 21, 2017, 05:02:12 PM
I think we'll definitely get a final confrontation with the way everything has been setup and building, particularly the escalation of the monsters and our heroes' vulnerability in the dreamscape ("If you die in the Matrix..." =). I'm guessing they'll have to recover the memory and reconcile things with Casca while simultaneously fending off the attack (by throwing whatever they've got left at it).

Well the thing is I think the brambles might not just sit there as the group makes its way through, and may prove to be a serious obstacle themselves (i.e. come alive and attack).

as far as the trauma goes I don't think it matters so much as she was violently assaulted and violated by them in facilitation of the rape, and they alone have been sufficient symbol of the horror of that whole experience.

Yeah... It was traumatic enough as it was. Enough that she fainted.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Femto777 on June 21, 2017, 07:20:20 PM
Did anyone notice that the first phallic monsters they encountered looked like the demon child? They even have the little arms.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Aazealh on June 21, 2017, 07:54:07 PM
Did anyone notice that the first phallic monsters they encountered looked like the demon child? They even have the little arms.

I can guarantee you that whatever resemblance you see there is 100% unintentional.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Femto777 on June 21, 2017, 08:09:01 PM
I can guarantee you that whatever resemblance you see there is 100% unintentional.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/--FJQoW1XWYg/Vi6_2exC5nI/AAAAAAAA36Y/MSRmui8DuIs/s16000/0002-027.jpg)(http://www.mangadeep.com/wp-content/manga/346/86/35105we.jpg)Oh really.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Aazealh on June 21, 2017, 08:43:44 PM
Oh really.

Yes, really.

Suggesting otherwise is actually pretty stupid. These monsters represent things Casca feels aversion towards (reminder: she does not feel aversion towards her son). They're associated with the trauma of the abuse she suffered at Femto's hands. Oh and also they're obviously shaped like penises.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Femto777 on June 21, 2017, 09:19:17 PM
Yes, really.

Suggesting otherwise is actually pretty stupid. These monsters represent things Casca feels aversion towards (reminder: she does not feel aversion towards her son). They're associated with the trauma of the abuse she suffered at Femto's hands. Oh and also they're obviously shaped like penises.
I am well aware of that what clenched it for me was not just the general shape and mouth but also the arms.(https://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/berserk/images/a/a9/ESADemonChildSwallow.png/revision/latest/zoom-crop/width/320/height/320?cb=20150325023120)
If it hadn't been for the arms I would have just seen it as visually unintentional but the arms just seem like an odd little detail. I assumed that the monsters represented her child's disfigurement as a result of Femto's sexual assault. Not aversion to her child.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Aazealh on June 22, 2017, 05:10:14 AM
I am well aware of that what clenched it for me was not just the general shape and mouth but also the arms.

I understand, but nah. The small arms are just a coincidence. They're not even that similar. These monsters all symbolize a single thing: an unwelcome penis. It makes no sense to relate it to the boy. His birth came after her illness, too. This scene is all about the Eclipse.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Femto777 on June 22, 2017, 05:19:30 AM
I'll concede that I'm wrong also after looking at the other monsters the canine looking ones also had similar looking limbs.
Pardon me for responding with oh really earlier Aazealh I made that response in haste obviously not my best.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Aazealh on June 22, 2017, 06:07:26 AM
Pardon me for responding with oh really earlier Aazealh I made that response in haste obviously not my best.

Don't worry about it, although yeah I would generally recommend to listen to what I say. :iva:
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: MrFlibble on June 22, 2017, 10:47:02 AM
Overall I feel a little let down by the corridor of dreams sequence, the art and the drama is stunning as usual, however we are at the last memory peice and neither Farnese nor Schierke seem to have had much difficulty getting this far, every time they face a horde of monsters they summon their dream artifacts to kill them, neither them nor the dog have sustained any injuries or setbacks so far.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: jackson_hurley on June 22, 2017, 11:40:31 AM
Overall I feel a little let down by the corridor of dreams sequence, the art and the drama is stunning as usual, however we are at the last memory peice and neither Farnese nor Schierke seem to have had much difficulty getting this far, every time they face a horde of monsters they summon their dream artifacts to kill them, neither them nor the dog have sustained any injuries or setbacks so far.

Just you wait untill the next one. I'm sure it won't be as "easy" as it was for the moment. They do look tired and dirty though. So I would not say that it was a walk in the park. And considering where the last fragment is, they might not come back unscathered mentally and physically. Though I doubt anything mortal will happen.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Oburi on June 22, 2017, 03:26:49 PM
Just you wait untill the next one. I'm sure it won't be as "easy" as it was for the moment. They do look tired and dirty though. So I would not say that it was a walk in the park. And considering where the last fragment is, they might not come back unscathered mentally and physically. Though I doubt anything mortal will happen.

Yea, if you read the whole dreamscape sequence from the beginning it is quite the journey. Surreal, confusing, emotional, informative, and by the way the characters appear at the end of this last episode here, clearly it's been an exhausting experience for them. Also let's not forget that there was a lot that we weren't shown, given how small the broken fragments were. We can assume that they spent a lot of time collecting the pieces. In fact, I like to think that since they aren't exactly bound to the laws of real time, perhaps they've been doing this for what could seem like an eternity, fighting off endless waves after waves of enemies. So even without Miura needlessly showing it to us, we can fill in the blanks and piece the whole incredible journey together which honestly, just imagining it seems draining, physically and emotionally. And of course it goes without saying that the real challenge is just ahead. If you think it's been too easy for them so far, just imagine that everything up until now has been the easy part and just look at how exhausted and disheveled they look at the end there. The real challenge has only just begun.

Anyway loved the episode, of course. A little bummed about the break though. I never comment on the breaks, but this one stings because I was expecting a steady stream through summer and was really looking forward to it (WE'RE SO CLOSE! WE NEED CASCA BACK! :casca:).  C'est la vie.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Griffith on June 22, 2017, 03:43:00 PM
As I've said, I actually appreciate Miura making this as little of a slog as possible; isn't 20 years long enough? We don't need to spend entire episodes on each challenge, monster, or confrontation Schierke and Farnese face to make the effort meaningful. I'm bummed out enough there wasn't enough time to get to Casca before the break, but of course I don't want it rushed either. It's at least a comforting delusion (because a lot of the work is probably already done) that Miura will be taking all this time to get this momentous event just right! :casca:
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Aazealh on June 22, 2017, 04:00:55 PM
Yea, if you read the whole dreamscape sequence from the beginning it is quite the journey. Surreal, confusing, emotional, informative, and by the way the characters appear at the end of this last episode here, clearly it's been an exhausting experience for them. Also let's not forget that there was a lot that we weren't shown, given how small the broken fragments were. We can assume that they spent a lot of time collecting the pieces. In fact, I like to think that since they aren't exactly bound to the laws of real time, perhaps they've been doing this for what could seem like an eternity, fighting off endless waves after waves of enemies. So even without Miura needlessly showing it to us, we can fill in the blanks and piece the whole incredible journey together which honestly, just imagining it seems draining, physically and emotionally. And of course it goes without saying that the real challenge is just ahead. If you think it's been too easy for them so far, just imagine that everything up until now has been the easy part and just look at how exhausted and disheveled they look at the end there. The real challenge has only just begun.

Indeed. Even just this last episode, taken by itself, is completely frantic. It's a rush to the summit as they basically run through (and away from) scores of enemies and have like three or four close-misses. They look completely disheveled and exhausted, and Schierke readily admitted she was completely out of options before Farnese thought to use her own little dream as a last resort trick.

And now they stand in front of what's been the real challenge all along. Witnessing the memories of Guts in the cave or on the hill as they talked about the Bonfire of Dreams was never going to be a problem, rather it's just a window into Casca's past for them. So the fact they had to undergo a timeless journey to search for every little piece was already a bigger ordeal than people expected. It took great perseverance and was only possible in the first place because Danan helped them get through and then continuously guided them along the way.

To complain that they haven't been hurt is to miss the point (they're only using the dream rules to their advantage, as they should) when it was clearly a test of determination and endurance. Not to mention that it informed us about how incredibly strong Casca's trauma is (and how strongly part of her mind resists the healing process). And now comes the real test, since they will confront the actual trauma, the memory they set out to find in the first place. This is the part where they can and probably will get hurt to some extent, the part that will be likely be emotionally devastating for the readers and characters alike. They will have to get to that last fragment (and again, those brambles don't look friendly to me), to make her whole again, and then to deal with the consequences.

I'm bummed out enough there wasn't enough time to get to Casca before the break, but of course I don't want it rushed either. It's at least a comforting delusion (because a lot of the work is probably already done) that Miura will be taking all this time to get this momentous event just right! :casca:

I don't think it's a coincidence that there's a hiatus now. The next episode (and the ones after it) will be momentous, one of the most important in the entire series. It's not that surprising that Miura would want to take his time with it, though of course it means a long and painful wait for us.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Griffith on June 22, 2017, 04:24:25 PM
To complain that they haven't been hurt is to miss the point

On the contrary, I measure the quality of Berserk almost solely by how much people get hurt. :guts: :beast:

I don't think it's a coincidence that there's a hiatus now. The next episode (and the ones after it) will be momentous, one of the most important in the entire series. It's not that surprising that Miura would want to take his time with it, though of course it means a long and painful wait for us.

Yeah, it makes perfect sense: following the series current scheduling there's not enough time to plow straight through or do it justice in the space available up to this episode, and so this is the opportune moment, before they reach the final memory/challenge/Casca, to break away on a cliffhanger and leave us in suspense, which will also provide requisite time to be sure these pivotal upcoming episodes are just right before release, and hopefully allow us to complete this segment with Casca's return in its entirety during the next run.

Zodd will be attacking Elfhelm by the next cliffhanger! :zodd: :badbone:
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: phantomman on June 24, 2017, 03:25:36 PM
I just hope that this whole event of curing Casca won't be limited to going through her memories. So far it's kinda uneventful and it's pretty generic for what it is. Think about it - healing Casca should be way more complex than just a sequence of memories we all know. Sure we learn some stuff (somewhat) but I don't think this is what people were really hyped for. Hopefully the last fragment is going to mean the whole new challenge for Schierke and Farnese. Something that makes this journey unforgettable.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Kazm on June 24, 2017, 11:18:51 PM
Howdy all. Long time lurker, first time poster here. I couldn't help but think the imagery was very much like going into Casca's womb, especially with the very obvious phallic looking monsters, and the singular "egg" attached atop a hill with thorns growing out. It was all very embryonic to me.

One could speculate (not sure how well admittedly) the Femto rape also was a violation of everything she had perhaps subconsciously hoped for in family, children, "settling down" etc. Not going as far to say whatever demonic influence Femto had in corrupting her fetus also corrupted her mind, however. I do wonder though if restoring Casca will have implications for the moon child. Excited to see what comes next to say the least.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Aazealh on June 25, 2017, 08:59:13 AM
I just hope that this whole event of curing Casca won't be limited to going through her memories. So far it's kinda uneventful and it's pretty generic for what it is. Think about it - healing Casca should be way more complex than just a sequence of memories we all know.

Seems to me you're the one who needs to think some more before posting.

Schierke and Farnese haven't just been going through Casca's memories. They're been journeying through a desolate landscape beyond time in order to collect each and every fragment of her broken ego, all the while fighting off hellish creatures birthed by the hostile environment (said environment being a product of Casca's mind). It wasn't uneventful, nor was it "generic", a word you apparently don't know the meaning of. No one knew what to expect from her "dream", and it's not quite like anything we've seen before. It has also certainly not been depicted as an easy process so far, and yet all of what they've done has merely set up the stage for the actual task they must accomplish: deal with the event that broke Casca and find a way to fix it.

Sure we learn some stuff (somewhat) but I don't think this is what people were really hyped for. Hopefully the last fragment is going to mean the whole new challenge for Schierke and Farnese. Something that makes this journey unforgettable.

As far as I know people have been pretty excited about every episode within the Corridor of Dreams, and it's been quite unique and unforgettable already.
It's also pretty obvious that dealing with the actual traumatic event at the center of everything will be a big challenge. It's what shattered Casca's mind to begin with, so it's not like having gathered the broken parts will help with it. They'll need to bear witness to the rape, a process which could hurt them, then they'll have to get Casca's mind to accept to bear it, which I don't imagine will be easy.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: phantomman on June 25, 2017, 09:33:16 AM
I am not saying that the whole sequence is useless but if you exclude the fact that Schierke and Farnese are learning about stuff through snippets of memories and the fact that we see Casca's mind being this much twisted - it really is generic. The trope of collecting pieces of memories and putting it together is generic, which is a shame. I have seen better examples of that in other work of art.  I respect Miura's ideas for this manga, but this moment is underwhelming (so far) and to say otherwise is to fool yourself. Whatever, not going to argue with a person who sees Miura as someone who can't make a mistake. Waste of time.

Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Aazealh on June 25, 2017, 09:54:46 AM
I am not saying that the whole sequence is useless but if you exclude the fact that Schierke and Farnese are learning about stuff through snippets of memories and the fact that we see Casca's mind being this much twisted - it really is generic.

"If you exclude the world and the characters as well as the actions that take place in the story and how it's all represented visually, then..."

:schierke:

I respect Miura's ideas for this manga, but this moment is underwhelming (so far) and to say otherwise is to fool yourself. Whatever, not going to argue with a person who sees Miura as someone who can't make a mistake. Waste of time.

Yeah after that brilliant demonstration I certainly wouldn't want you to waste anyone's time anymore.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Urosh on June 25, 2017, 09:58:48 AM
"So far it's kinda uneventful and it's pretty generic for what it is.", "... healing Casca should be way more complex than just a sequence of memories."

Miura took the psychoanalitical concept of therapy under hypnosis and masterfully adapted it into a fantastical dreamland scenario filled to the brim with symbolism, adventuring and monster slaying while maintaing the focus on the emotional distress of Casca and the disturbance of such powerful imagery taking its toll on both Farnese and Schierke.

Uneventful, generic, simple... Gee, I wonder why I'm having a hard time listing other works such as this.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: MrFlibble on June 25, 2017, 11:19:31 AM
I just hope that this whole event of curing Casca won't be limited to going through her memories. So far it's kinda uneventful and it's pretty generic for what it is. Think about it - healing Casca should be way more complex than just a sequence of memories we all know. Sure we learn some stuff (somewhat) but I don't think this is what people were really hyped for. Hopefully the last fragment is going to mean the whole new challenge for Schierke and Farnese. Something that makes this journey unforgettable.

Hopefully the final fragment will be a more difficult challenge, after all it is the event that drove Casca mad, and it is something she will have to come to terms with, since they're out of talismans, I'm hoping the sprite Casca will play a role in overcoming the eclipse.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Menosgade on June 25, 2017, 11:49:46 AM
I am not saying that the whole sequence is useless but if you exclude the fact that Schierke and Farnese are learning about stuff through snippets of memories and the fact that we see Casca's mind being this much twisted - it really is generic.

I guess that if you exclude the characters, their relations with each other and the story being built arround them, it's not a manga anymore it's just a generic piece of paper with ink.

Hopefully the final fragment will be a more difficult challenge, after all it is the event that drove Casca mad, and it is something she will have to come to terms with, since they're out of talismans, I'm hoping the sprite Casca will play a role in overcoming the eclipse.

It's not about the "challenge". This word is being used a lot here, but I don't think this is what Miura wants to convey. He has shown that it wasn't easy up to this point. People are finding it "unchallenging" because everything happened somewhat fast, and that's understandable, however, it simplly had to. From a storytelling perspective there's no reason for Miura to go through each single important memory of Casca or show each single adversity Schierke and Farnese are overcoming. I think he's showing a lot actually, we've seen many different designs and the enveroinment itself has changed. If we spend whole episodes going through how Schierke and Farnese defeat hairballs, bats, spiders, giant penises and their variations, it'd be quite boring.

The most important stuff is yet to come.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: N7Paladin on June 25, 2017, 04:46:19 PM
but this moment is underwhelming (so far) and to say otherwise is to fool yourself.

Someone clearly doesn't understand what has been happening in the past few manga episodes.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Bender on June 25, 2017, 05:01:40 PM
I have seen better examples of that in other work of art.

Care to expand on this?  I'm interested.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Griffith on June 25, 2017, 06:31:32 PM
Frankly, I thought it would be a higher stakes variation of the trolls quest and then the Elf King would basically wave a magic wand or clap his wings and the deed would be done. What I'm saying is this much better than the generic version. =)

Care to expand on this?  I'm interested.

I'm not, we haven't even gotten to the moment of truth yet and already we're entertaining some loudmouth nobody vaguely naysaying the whole thing, and before it's even half done for all we know. Somebody comes out of the woodwork to poo poo every such moment, including people whose knowledge and opinion of the series I actually respect, and I haven't seen one that's held up yet. I'd much rather get Miura's complete idea of a good restoration of Casca before hearing what random internet youtube commenter #1257437897 thinks based on their vast knowledge of "work of art."

As always:

(http://www.skullknight.net/griffith/weekly.jpg)
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: persiandud on June 26, 2017, 09:36:14 AM
Care to expand on this?  I'm interested.

Same, I'm curious as to what answers he could come up with. This is unlike anything I've ever seen in a fantasy. I'm not sure what is "generic" about it. Despite the vitriol he's getting, I want to know if he can back up his words or if he, like others have said, is another fan nitpicking for the sake of it.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Griffith on June 26, 2017, 04:20:01 PM
You answer your own ponderment though, specifically, "What the hell are they talking about?" Even playing devil's advocate and noting that entering people's minds or dreams isn't new, the way it's being employed here is quite specific and appropriate, plus above and beyond the call of duty for what the audience needs to know to simply bring Casca back (it also doesn't need to be the best case ever since Berserk isn't primarily about that, just appropriate for this situation). We're basically getting an extra deep dive or look behind the curtain, which is nice since we've been without Casca so long (also a nice refresher/point of focus for new readers), and no doubt getting an important point of reference for her future development. We won't know for a while how it'll all work in the big picture, and that's the point, but it's been cool and is very promising to say the least.

Though, some guy registers an account and basically trolls "I could do better", and we should be curious if he's right? That's a lot of unearned benefit of the doubt, and when he comes up empty or wanting I doubt we'll get a mea culpa. Instead it'll be the endlessly evolving semantics of a bad faith argument where the words and their meanings change but their pointlessness remains the same (Farmers should offer internet insurance for this).

Ironically, I also don't think we'd be hearing these grumblings if the trial was just Guts killin' d00dz as opposed to a psychological quest concerning the physiological welfare of the series' three lead women. "Where's the killin' monstarz to makes this good and feel earned!? They're just like thinking and talking and facing Casca's worst traumas and shit?! Nobody's even lost a bloody limb! Lame!!" Nobody complains there's not enough random or excessive character development. =)
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Aazealh on June 26, 2017, 05:44:08 PM
I have to agree with Griff, let's not waste any more time pondering the hypotheticals of a stupid comment.

I would rather have us discuss what we think might happen in the next few episodes and what impact it will have on the characters.

For example I'm surprised no one is talking about what the monsters in this episode suggest: that Casca is probably not going to want to immediately resume any kind of romantic relationship when she's restored. Not that it wasn't obvious to begin with, but I think this episode cemented it. People have been fantasizing about the Skull Knight's warning to Guts for years, but really, that simple fact would more than fit the bill.

But before getting to that they need to resolve the trauma and as I've mentioned before I feel like they aren't much closer to doing it than they were 4 episodes ago. They do know a good deal about Casca's past now, of course, which is essential to helping her out, but we still have no idea what the process of aiding her to cope with the trauma and persuading her to return will be like. It seems pretty obvious but I expect the Sprite to play a key role in this. Either as the force of hope and will to live within Casca (opposite the part of her that wants to stay like this) or as the "fully restored" version that they'll have to confront after gathering the last fragment (with the Sprite maybe merging with the doll or serving as the spark of life to animate it). In any case I feel that the Sprite's interactions with Farnese and Schierke since they've met could be key to Casca eventually trusting them and accepting to return..

And of course aside from all that there's the matter of Farnese and Schierke's own well-being. It's been made clear they're facing actual danger and I frankly have no idea how they'll get through the memory of the rape. Would Danan be able to shield them from the worst of it? Schierke's so young, and Farnese's mental resilience isn't the strongest... I can't imagine they wouldn't be traumatised if they were to experience it normally. Would Farnese shield Schierke from it and bear the trauma alone? It would be exceptionally brave of her, but also quite risky. As they have been warned, as as we've seen before, being hurt in there could have consequences on their real bodies... There's no telling what form that would take though. A scar? A discolored eye? I wonder.

There's a lot of unknowns going forward, even simply how they'll get past those thorny vines (which could take as little as two panels or as much as nine pages). If you guys want to keep the thread going, I'd like to hear what your thoughts are.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Nothingwillbewong on June 26, 2017, 05:55:27 PM
I am reaally excited about where tension will unfold next, so close to the core of something casca's subconsious (or whatever you may call it) doesn't want to be found. How it will defend itself apart from the mountain of thorns, which i still can't think how they will trespass it, will we see a metaphoric or twisted version of femto or do we only see him when the memory is obtained? The hype is very real to me right now  :guts:
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Walter on June 26, 2017, 08:05:33 PM
I'm surprised no one is talking about what the monsters in this episode suggest: that Casca is probably not going to want to immediately resume any kind of romantic relationship when she's restored

Speaking for myself, that's always seemed to be the direction of things -- the sum of her traumatic experience and forced advent from the dream/nightmare world would be an aversion to Guts in some capacity. But indeed, the phallophobia evident in this ep presents a more visceral challenge for EVER engaging in an intimate relationship again.

That being said, the key to your phrasing is "not going to want to immediately resume." Miura can't keep these two apart from each other, given the momentum of the entire series. So rather than a "break-up" upon her awakening, I expect a cooling off period, during which the girls will give her companionship and she maintains a distance from Guts. But where will Guts' head be during this time? It may be natural for readers to conclude that Casca will eventually return to him, but it might not be for Guts. He's put all his chips on Casca for all these years. What will that rejection, even if it's ultimately temporary, do to him? The harrowing part of the restoration process is only beginning...

I expect the Sprite to play a key role in this. Either as the force of hope and will to live within Casca (opposite the part of her that wants to stay like this) or as the "fully restored" version that they'll have to confront after gathering the last fragment

I think it would be interesting if the sprite was able to show this traumatized, trapped Casca a peek at life in the wider world since the trauma began (if the sprite is even a vessel for memories, and not merely a representation of an aspect of per ego). Just like the memory fragments that compose the "doll"'s body showed visions of the past, the sprite could harbor visions of Guts fighting for her, her child, Griffith, and all the conflicting emotions of all three of these elements. Could it be enough to turn the tide for Casca and accept a return to reality?

As if it weren't already obvious, this is a BIG fucking event for Berserk and the future... More significant to the story and its trajectory even than Fantasia.

It's been made clear they're facing actual danger and I frankly have no idea how they'll get through the memory of the rape. Would Danan be able to shield them from the worst of it? Schierke's so young, and Farnese's mental resilience isn't the strongest...

The memory of the Eclipse has been a literal threat hanging in the sky for this entire sequence. It's almost a relief that we're getting a 4-6 month reprieve before Miura finally drops the blade onto our necks. The idea of Farnese shielding Schierke from that trauma is great/painful. This hypothetical predicament you've concocted is forcing me to take sides — which character do I want LESS traumatized. The obvious answer is Schierke, because fuck that'd certainly be a "gloves off" moment for Miura ... But Farnese has come so far, it would be disheartening to see her permanently scarred, yet another victim of the trauma of the Eclipse.

Though as you allude to, there are other possibilities -- Danan protecting them, Guts/dog going down for the count (what would that mean...?) -- I almost wouldn't want an external force in this instance. Schierke and Farnese should bear the cost of this process if there is one to be paid. I almost feel like some counterstroke for this process would be ... grimly appropriate. Perhaps it'll be something simple, like Guts' white tuft of hair, while also serving as a lasting reminder of the cost of their journey.


A parting thought, I am eagerly anticipating how Miura will choose to represent Femto in this world. I can't imagine it will be a straight-up carbon copy of the being, but some monstrous depiction. I can't wait.  :femto:  :magni:
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Griffith on June 26, 2017, 08:40:11 PM
It's been pretty clear since the beginning of the post-Eclipse era that Casca will have issues being intimate or even trusting men ever again, to put it mildly considering the extent of her condition, Guts included and for specific reason. BUT, if Guts is patient, and I think it could be a struggle and potential growth for him, I also think he's the one uniquely qualified to understand and relate to this with his own experience surviving sexual assault and betrayal by a trusted mentor to boot. Casca was the one to really help Guts face and cure those demons for himself, the only one he confided in at all and not even voluntarily at first, but now can be his time to understand her situation and reciprocate with her as only he can. We'll see, but this could be damn fine stuff as well as harrowing.

Guts/dog going down for the count (what would that mean...?)

I too don't want any easy answers for them getting through this, but I don't expect them either, and actually think the possible demise of Guts-Dog would be a good thing for Casca; symbolizing that she doesn't need such a protector anymore, she can do it herself.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Bender on June 26, 2017, 09:04:11 PM
I have to agree with Griff, let's not waste any more time pondering the hypotheticals of a stupid comment.

Fair enough.  I just find myself trying to think of something similar in another work that does not involve the main character fighting a bizarro version of himself in some boring, repetitive way.  The fact that he just slammed it and did not bother to back up his opinion with anything of substance is really all we need.

As far as what will happen in the future, I wonder if the child will show up to help? I think something has to happen to protect them from what they are about to see and feel from Casca's point of view.  These events destroyed her and she was no push over.  If these two were to go through the same with out help, I cant imagine they would come out any better.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Aazealh on June 26, 2017, 09:20:01 PM
But where will Guts' head be during this time? [...] He's put all his chips on Casca for all these years. What will that rejection, even if it's ultimately temporary, do to him? The harrowing part of the restoration process is only beginning...

Yeah, it will be hard to take for sure. For a reader's perspective, it will be interesting to see what it does to his morale. Could it sap his will to fight? Would it nullify his inner struggling-self, so that he'd basically let himself be beaten down? Or would he succumb to the armor's enticement and risk having his mind destroyed? Then Casca would have to help bring him back. :ubik:

I think it would be interesting if the sprite was able to show this traumatized, trapped Casca a peek at life in the wider world since the trauma began (if the sprite is even a vessel for memories, and not merely a representation of an aspect of per ego). Just like the memory fragments that compose the "doll"'s body showed visions of the past, the sprite could harbor visions of Guts fighting for her, her child, Griffith, and all the conflicting emotions of all three of these elements.

I don't think the sprite will be able to do that. However, Schierke and Farnese sure could, and I expect them to. That's why they're here.

This hypothetical predicament you've concocted is forcing me to take sides — which character do I want LESS traumatized. The obvious answer is Schierke, because fuck that'd certainly be a "gloves off" moment for Miura ... But Farnese has come so far, it would be disheartening to see her permanently scarred, yet another victim of the trauma of the Eclipse.

Pushing the hypothesis to its conclusion, I think it could be an opportunity for Farnese to grow further eventually.

Guts/dog going down for the count (what would that mean...?)

I don't think the dog really matters to be honest, at least not if she's restored. It's just part of that nightmare, a figment of her mind. The most meaningful thing I can think of is that he's a projection of her own fighting spirit, her refusal —however tiny— to completely let go. In that view, banishing it might also hypothetical suppress the warrior-part of her, but I'm not convinced. She'll have plenty to deal with as it is.

I almost feel like some counterstroke for this process would be ... grimly appropriate. Perhaps it'll be something simple, like Guts' white tuft of hair, while also serving as a lasting reminder of the cost of their journey.

Yep, that's what I had in mind.

A parting thought, I am eagerly anticipating how Miura will choose to represent Femto in this world. I can't imagine it will be a straight-up carbon copy of the being, but some monstrous depiction. I can't wait.

I'm actually not sure we'll see Femto represented in the nightmare world itself. He will be within the memory, of course, but other than that? I don't know. Could be. The Black Sun could morph into his eye, would befit his unblinking stare (but I prefer the idea of it being Guts' eye). Hard to say beyond that.

BUT, if Guts is patient, and I think it could be a struggle and potential growth for him, I also think he's the one uniquely qualified to understand and relate to this with his own experience surviving sexual assault and betrayal by a trusted mentor to boot. Casca was the one to really help Guts face and cure those demons for himself, the only one he confided in at all and not even voluntarily at first, but now can be his time to understand her situation and reciprocate with her as only he can. We'll see, but this could be damn fine stuff as well as harrowing.

Excellent point and completely agree. Casca has helped Guts with his own trauma and he's particularly well-suited to help her with hers. Beyond even the rape, he's also still haunted by the Eclipse to this day, and his mental anguish shouldn't be understated. He's been downright neurotic at times. Sharing their mutual pain could do them both a lot of good, even if it'll take time.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: puella on June 27, 2017, 08:37:14 PM
Miura's comment for this episode: "Established! Established! Grunbeld's character has been established. ヽ(´ ▽ `)/ "
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Griffith on June 27, 2017, 08:41:51 PM
Miura's comment for this episode: "Established! Established! Grunbeld's character has been established. ヽ(´ ▽ `)/ "

Lol, I'm completely biased so I like to read this completely neutral endorsement negatively, like, "It's over, they've ruined him!" :miura:"

Update: Oh no, music notes and smiley faces!? :azan:

So, not even a story credit for Miura on the book beyond "based on" status?  :sad:
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Johnny Apples on June 27, 2017, 08:42:54 PM
Miura's comment for this episode: "Established! Established! Grunbeld's character has been established. ヽ(´ ▽ `)/ "

So then....this means the "Berserk: Flame Dragon Knight" light novel is actually canon after all?  :magni:
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Rhombaad on June 27, 2017, 08:55:04 PM
So then....this means the "Berserk: Flame Dragon Knight" light novel is actually canon after all?  :magni:

Only if you read it. :slan:
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Aazealh on June 27, 2017, 08:58:14 PM
So, not even a story credit for Miura on the book beyond "based on" status?  :sad:

Same thing I said in the novel thread weeks ago. Novel: Makoto Fukami | Original: Miura Kentarou
Hypothetically it's possible be that Miura provided an outline or something, but nothing explicitly indicates it.

So then....this means the "Berserk: Flame Dragon Knight" light novel is actually canon after all?  :magni:

When was it not supposed to be canon? It was a done deal as soon as we knew Miura was providing illustrations for it.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Griffith on June 27, 2017, 10:08:35 PM
Same thing I said in the novel thread weeks ago. Novel: Makoto Fukami | Original: Miura Kentarou
Hypothetically it's possible be that Miura provided an outline or something, but nothing explicitly indicates it.

I hope so, but yeah... That comment seems so open-ended to me too, like I could see every one of Griffith's lieutenants being "established" this way as we'd feared, or worse...

Quote
"Established! Established! Locus' character has been established. ♪ ヽ(´ ▽ `)/ "

 :sad:

Quote
"Established! Established! Irvine's character has been established. ♪ ヽ(´ ▽ `)/ "

 :judo:

Quote
"Established! Established! Zodd's character has been established. ♪ ヽ(´ ▽ `)/ "

 :isidro:

Quote
"Established! Established! Skull Knight's character has been established. ♪ ヽ(´ ▽ `)/ "

 :mozgus:


When was it not supposed to be canon? It was a done deal as soon as we knew Miura was providing illustrations for it.

It's just a part of the Berserk EU, so we can continue to debate it's relevance. =) Excuse me...

(http://www.skullknight.net/images/gutsbarf.gif)
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: MrFlibble on June 28, 2017, 04:49:12 PM

For example I'm surprised no one is talking about what the monsters in this episode suggest: that Casca is probably not going to want to immediately resume any kind of romantic relationship when she's restored. Not that it wasn't obvious to begin with, but I think this episode cemented it. People have been fantasizing about the Skull Knight's warning to Guts for years, but really, that simple fact would more than fit the bill.

I don't think there's much evidence for that, Casca in her current state is hostile towards men, but there's no reason why Casca would still be like that when her mind is restored, plus it seems like overkill for her to still carry the weight of her trauma with her after she recovered from that very same trauma. Not that I'm expecting her to be all sunshine and rainbows after being insane for four years

Quote
But before getting to that they need to resolve the trauma and as I've mentioned before I feel like they aren't much closer to doing it than they were 4 episodes ago. They do know a good deal about Casca's past now, of course, which is essential to helping her out.

I would have least thought, by this time they would have known who Griffith was and what he meant to Casca (they haven't even any memories of him in his tortured state yet,) it's going to get even more confusing when they see him in his God Hand form.


Quote

And of course aside from all that there's the matter of Farnese and Schierke's own well-being. It's been made clear they're facing actual danger and I frankly have no idea how they'll get through the memory of the rape. Would Danan be able to shield them from the worst of it? Schierke's so young, and Farnese's mental resilience isn't the strongest... I can't imagine they wouldn't be traumatised if they were to experience it normally. Would Farnese shield Schierke from it and bear the trauma alone? It would be exceptionally brave of her, but also quite risky. As they have been warned, as as we've seen before, being hurt in there could have consequences on their real bodies... There's no telling what form that would take though. A scar? A discolored eye? I wonder.

They have witnessed violent rape before in Qliphoth. so it won't be an alien experience for them, then again this time they're not only witnessing it, they'll be experiencing Casca's emotions too, all of that trauma will be imprinted on them.

I am interseted in what she will think of Griffith after this though, I'm not one of the conspiritards who thinks Casca is going to flock to Griffith's side, but I don't think she has the capacity to hate him with the same intensity as Guts, he was after all the second most important man in her life, and she may be a vital to convincing Guts to forgive Griffith, if that ever happens.

Which brings me to another tangent, this all puts Griffith in a very vulnerable position, if Guts discovers from Casca that the moonlight boy is indeed his son and sharing a body with Griffith, then Griffith has just handed his greatest enemy knowledge about his only weak spot.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Menosgade on June 28, 2017, 05:19:23 PM
I don't think there's much evidence for that, Casca in her current state is hostile towards men, but there's no reason why Casca would still be like that when her mind is restored, plus it seems like overkill for her to still carry the weight of her trauma with her after she recovered from that very same trauma.

There's no such thing as overkill. Collateral effects such as inability to speak, at least for some time, are plausibe. An aversion towards male is the least painful effect we can expect. Recovering from the trauma means getting her back to sanity, using you logic and assuming she wouldn't have any more problems with males is kinda like saying she won't have problems with Femto either.

I would have least thought, by this time they would have known who Griffith was and what he meant to Casca (they haven't even any memories of him in his tortured state yet,) it's going to get even more confusing when they see him in his God Hand form.

They've seen him as someone important in her memories. Seeing him in the tortured state wouldn't help them believe that it's the same long hair guy, wich they probably wouldn't recognize after maimed,  and that he became a demon and raped her. Maybe they'll make a link by her feelings when Femto appears inside the dream. My bet is that they won't be able to put things together just by her dream and memories - they aren't organized information.




Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Aazealh on June 28, 2017, 05:46:06 PM
I don't think there's much evidence for that, Casca in her current state is hostile towards men, but there's no reason why Casca would still be like that when her mind is restored, plus it seems like overkill for her to still carry the weight of her trauma with her after she recovered from that very same trauma. Not that I'm expecting her to be all sunshine and rainbows after being insane for four years

Not being insane anymore isn't the same as being 100% rid of all trauma. What they're doing here is trying to convince Casca to return to the world, to face her pain. They're not wiping her mind. Anyway, I said Casca will probably not want to immediately resume a romantic relationship when she's restored, do you disagree with that? Otherwise what do you mean by not being all sunshine and rainbows?

I would have least thought, by this time they would have known who Griffith was and what he meant to Casca (they haven't even any memories of him in his tortured state yet,) it's going to get even more confusing when they see him in his God Hand form.

They know who Griffith is/was. They've both had plenty of exposure and have even seen him, albeit from afar. In fact Guts was talking about him not so long ago, in episode 345. We also don't know how much they've seen in Casca's memories so far. We've only been shown a fraction of all the fragments they've collected, and Miura could have very well done so on purpose, keeping some of them off screen so that they could be evoked through flashbacks near the moment of crisis. If needed, Farnese and Schierke could very well just think back to those fragments they gathered off-screen earlier. Or maybe the last fragment will be a massive one that'll incorporate a whole slew of moments. Either way I'm not worried about confusion.

Quiloth

Qliphoth.

I am interseted in what she will think of Griffith after this though, I'm not one of the conspiritards who thinks Casca is going to flock to Griffith's side, but I don't think she has the capacity to hate him with the same intensity as Guts, he was after all the second most important man in her life.

Are you sure you're not one of those guys? Because you sound like them. "He was after all the second most important man in her life"... and then he sacrificed her and all her friends (who were horribly butchered), then gruesomely raped her in front of her boyfriend. Speaking about "intensity of hatred" feels like a complete cop-out to me, as if she would ever somehow give him a pass for what he did. Remember who else couldn't hate Griffith like Guts? Rickert. And he straight up slapped him in the face the next time he saw him, told him how he felt and stormed out. I don't understand how anyone could expect Casca to feel something other than disgust/pain/anger/fear/depression about Griffith. Oh and just you wait till she learns he corrupted her and Guts' son, and then later on took over his body for himself.

Which brings me to another tangent, this all puts Griffith in a very vulnerable position, if Guts discovers from Casca that the moonlight boy is indeed his son and sharing a body with Griffith, then Griffith has just handed his greatest enemy knowledge about his only weak spot.

I have been saying that the Boy in the Moonlight will be Griffith's downfall for literally ten years. However you're misreading the situation here. First, Griffith hasn't handed anything to anyone. His weakness lies in the fact the boy would probably not let him hurt his parents without reacting. He'd try to stop him or to take over the body like he did in volume 22. That's an unforeseen side effect of the incarnation process. Second, that knowledge, that their son's life is tied to that of their enemy, is sure to bring them immense anguish and doubt. Would they risk killing their son? I don't believe Casca would, and despite everything I don't believe Guts would either.

On a side note, I don't think Griffith considers Guts his greatest enemy, and I don't think Casca will emerge from her stupor with intricate knowledge about her son and Femto. They will probably need to figure that out afterwards.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Griffith on June 28, 2017, 05:53:13 PM
I don't think there's much evidence for that, Casca in her current state is hostile towards men, but there's no reason why Casca would still be like that when her mind is restored, plus it seems like overkill for her to still carry the weight of her trauma with her after she recovered from that very same trauma. Not that I'm expecting her to be all sunshine and rainbows after being insane for four years

There's degrees to these things though, and her aversion to men and insanity aren't necessarily one in the same thing, but two separate reactions to the same incident. After all, she did come around to trusting Guts and men in general again even though her state of mind didn't change, so just because her sanity is cured doesn't mean the trauma is all gone too. Look at Guts for an example of a rape survivor in the series; he wouldn't let ANYONE even make casual physical contact with him for years, and he when he tried to be intimate with Casca he suffered a violent, psychotic break. I think the broken pieces are a good metaphor that Casca's restoration is going to be like something that was noticeably broken and put back together, not like new.

I am interseted in what she will think of Griffith after this though, I'm not one of the conspiritards who thinks Casca is going to flock to Griffith's side, but I don't think she has the capacity to hate him with the same intensity as Guts, he was after all the second most important man in her life, and she may be a vital to convincing Guts to forgive Griffith, if that ever happens.

Which brings me to another tangent, this all puts Griffith in a very vulnerable position, if Guts discovers from Casca that the moonlight boy is indeed his son and sharing a body with Griffith, then Griffith has just handed his greatest enemy knowledge about his only weak spot.

Those are two double-edged swords, it's all the more reason for Casca to hate Griffith, because he violated and hijacked her son's body, and all the more reason for Guts and Casca to be wary of killing him because of how it could affect their son. If it were, or there otherwise was a way, to free the boy on the other hand...
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Kaladin on June 30, 2017, 04:32:02 AM
Digital YA is out (https://www.hakusensha-e.net/top?id=13051)
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Aazealh on June 30, 2017, 09:57:15 AM
Digital YA is out (https://www.hakusensha-e.net/top?id=13051)

Thanks for the info! At first I was surprised that volume 39 isn't available yet, but then I remembered it took them years to stock the more recent ones after they launched this online store. I hope they'll make it available faster this time.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: darnage on June 30, 2017, 10:23:16 AM
Oh and just you wait till she learns he corrupted her and Guts' son, and then later on took over his body for himself.
Speaking of this, what knowledge will she have about her son once she's back? Will broken, she was able to identify him as her son even after changing to his current form and she can even feel him when he's nearby. That probably means that when Griffith corrupted the fœtus, Casca was also corrupted to some extent. That bring the question of whether that corruption will be vanquished by Farnese and Schierk or would that become a definitive part of her she will have to deal with.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Aazealh on June 30, 2017, 10:36:23 AM
Speaking of this, what knowledge will she have about her son once she's back?

That's a good question. We don't know what memories she will have from her insane days. One of my guesses is that she'll only have snippets from here and there. I think she'll need to relearn/rediscover what she instinctively knew about her son.

she was able to identify him as her son even after changing to his current form and she can even feel him when he's nearby. That probably means that when Griffith corrupted the fœtus, Casca was also corrupted to some extent.

Uhhh, no. She just could feel him with her Brand. While it's likely not something the God Hand intended, we've seen that the Brand allows those who carry it to feel the presence of evil and other supernatural beings with surprising accuracy. See for example how Guts could tell Flora was a witch upon seeing her, but also knew she wasn't evil. So Casca, while she was insane, could recognize her son instinctively as a mother through that particular sensation. That's why she could tell it was him even when Griffith showed up in volume 22, or when the Boy in the Moonlight first appeared. She will retain that ability even after she's cured, but might need some time to remember why that particular sensation feels familiar.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: darnage on June 30, 2017, 11:13:41 AM
Uhhh, no. She just could feel him with her Brand. While it's likely not something the God Hand intended, we've seen that the Brand allows those who carry it to feel the presence of evil and other supernatural beings with surprising accuracy. See for example how Guts could tell Flora was a witch upon seeing her, but also knew she wasn't evil. So Casca, while she was insane, could recognize her son instinctively as a mother through that particular sensation.

If that's the case, why Guts don't recognise him? He has been in contact with his son plenty of time before (probably even more than Casca), and he's way more familiar with the brand than Casca. In fact I don't recall at any point Guts noticing any reaction from his brand coming from his son's current form.

That's why she could tell it was him even when Griffith showed up in volume 22
The pain she feel at this time and the amount/way the blood was dripping from the brand was clearly the same as when Guts faced Griffith in the black swordmans arc, just toned down. I highly doubt she could have recognised her son in that.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Aazealh on June 30, 2017, 11:39:29 AM
If that's the case, why Guts don't recognise him? He has been in contact with his son plenty of time before (probably even more than Casca), and he's way more familiar with the brand than Casca. In fact I don't recall at any point Guts noticing any reaction from his brand coming from his son's current form.

Guts never had as keen a sense for him as Casca did. Meanwhile, literally every time the boy appears Casca is shown sensing him through her Brand. That connection was likely established when he was born, and relates to the fact she carried him in her body. That's why I said it was something she did instinctively. You would be wise to re-read the relevant parts of the manga before posting further on the subject.

The pain she feel at this time and the amount/way the blood was dripping from the brand was clearly the same as when Guts faced Griffith in the black swordmans arc, just toned down. I highly doubt she could have recognised her son in that.

Really, you shouldn't be arguing with me if you don't even remember the scene. Casca felt her son's presence from far away, while she was eating with Erika and Puck inside the cabin. She ran to him in the snow, and called out to him as she literally has done in every encounter with him, not caring about danger at all. And when the boy forced Griffith to save her, she reached for him despite the excruciating pain (which, understandably, greatly confused Guts). Then she is shown longing for him after he departs. There is absolutely no doubt she recognized her son in that scene.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: darnage on June 30, 2017, 12:34:57 PM
Guts never had as keen a sense for him as Casca did. Meanwhile, literally every time the boy appears Casca is shown sensing him through her Brand.
I guess you mean in his fœtus form, because as the moonlight boy, there is no mention of either Guts or Casca sensing him through the Brands (I verified). Also, what make you think Guts don't identify his fœtus form through the brand as well as Casca? I've no problem reading Berserk again, but it's gonna take me a while if I have to read everything again to find the concerned part.

Really, you shouldn't be arguing with me if you don't even remember the scene. Casca felt her son's presence from far away, while she was eating with Erika and Puck inside the cabin. She ran to him in the snow, and called out to him as she literally has done in every encounter with him, not caring about danger at all. And when the boy forced Griffith to save her, she reached for him despite the excruciating pain (which, understandably, greatly confused Guts). Then she is shown longing for him after he departs. There is absolutely no doubt she recognized her son in that scene.
I agree with all that. What I don't agree with is that Casca recognised her son in Griffith through her brand specifically.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Walter on June 30, 2017, 12:55:33 PM
Also, what make you think Guts don't identify his fœtus form through the brand as well as Casca?

Guts has never been shown to drop everything and seek out his child when it appears. Only Casca does. It's likely a combination of her possession of the brand and her motherly instinct — juiced up due to the brand. I'd also wager that her non lucid state of her mind aids her in this manifestation of the brand's extrasensory powers, but it's never been explicitly addressed, because Casca doesn't talk... You just have to use context clues to figure some things out.

Quote
I agree with all that. What I don't agree with is that Casca recognised her son in Griffith through her brand specifically.

Casca's only extrasensory medium is the brand. She's not a magic user. She only knows what she feels. So when she senses something supernatural, it's always going to be via the brand. So at the Hill of Swords, when she sensed Griffith's presence, it would have caused her some pain. But not just that. If it were just the pain associated with the God Hand, then what would make her want to seek it out? However, she did know what her son felt like, from her previous encounters. So, it was a combination of sensations, which you can pretty much read on her confused face as she gets close to Griffith, reaches out to touch him, and reels back in pain. None of that makes any sense if it's just the God Hand presence she feels. She'd simply run from the pain, not seek it out.

The other end of that sensation can be seen pretty clearly in Vol 36, when the Boy appears on the solitary island. Casca gets a flash of a sensation (that only she detects) and knows to seek out the boy. Again I'll reiterate — Casca's only extrasensory medium is the brand, but she's particularly attuned to the sensation of her son, because she is its mother.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Aazealh on June 30, 2017, 01:09:00 PM
I guess you mean in his fœtus form, because as the moonlight boy, there is no mention of either Guts or Casca sensing him through the Brands (I verified).

I meant any of the forms he's taken so far. As the Demon Child, as Griffith, and as the Moonlight Boy. In the latter case, the Brand isn't depicted specifically, however Casca is shown sensing him in volume 36. And the only supernatural sensing ability she possesses, like Guts, is through her Brand. The alternative you propose, some obscure "corruption", is unspoken of in the entire story. There has never been a single hint of it.

Also, what make you think Guts don't identify his fœtus form through the brand as well as Casca? I've no problem reading Berserk again, but it's gonna take me a while if I have to read everything again to find the concerned part.

What makes me think that is the manga... Casca is shown systematically sensing her son when he's nearby, while Guts doesn't, or at least not with nearly the same accuracy. Call it motherly instinct or whatever else you want, but they have a connection. And that connection started right when he was born, and crawled up to her breast... to suck on her Brand.

I agree with all that. What I don't agree with is that Casca recognised her son in Griffith through her brand specifically.

The reason she came out to see him in the first place is because she knew —through her Brand— it was her son. Literally everything in the scene makes it clear Casca recognized her son in Griffith. Including the fact Casca does not remember anyone from before her illness, and therefore could not have remembered Griffith himself (and would not have reacted like that if she had).
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Kaladin on June 30, 2017, 04:10:15 PM
Thanks for the info! At first I was surprised that volume 39 isn't available yet, but then I remembered it took them years to stock the more recent ones after they launched this online store. I hope they'll make it available faster this time.

This distributor (https://bookwalker.jp/de3836a31f-1e37-4870-8da4-4fe309044e6d/) is taking pre-orders for a 7/21/2017 release date. If i remember correctly, volume 38 was released digitally the same day as the physical volume, I'm not sure how things have worked in the past, though. I was expecting it to be released the same day as the YA issue but Bookwalker put up their pre-order a few days ago.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: CrimsonBehelit216 on July 28, 2017, 10:32:13 AM
Some crazy good imagery in these last few episodes, and what a cliff-hanger. There's so much to look forward to, I am really hyped to see it unravel. I also wonder what will Miura do to move the plot after Casca regains her memory. The story has been heading to this moment for so long, it's like Berserk is soon to arrive at a whole new segment. It's a pivotal time for Berserk fans.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: RaffoBaffo on August 25, 2017, 04:35:25 PM
If Wikipedia is correct, today is the 28th Anniversary of Berserk.
Congratulation Miura Sensei  :guts:

Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Walter on August 25, 2017, 04:53:01 PM
If Wikipedia is correct, today is the 28th Anniversary of Berserk.
Congratulation Miura Sensei  :guts:

Pretty sure it's October 1989, with no known date. Source: http://berserk.fan.coocan.jp/archive_ah.html#ah89_10

Also, when Young Animal celebrated the 20th anniversary of Berserk back in 2009, it was in the October issue.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: RaffoBaffo on August 25, 2017, 06:04:03 PM
Sasuga Wikipedia.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Aazealh on August 26, 2017, 03:16:44 PM
Pretty sure it's October 1989, with no known date. Source: http://berserk.fan.coocan.jp/archive_ah.html#ah89_10

Animal House was released on the 25th of each month, so it was October 25, 1989. They at least got that right!
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Hitoshura on September 05, 2017, 05:37:16 AM
Someone on twitter posted a new Guts and Griffith illustration that was given away as prize from a Japanese manga website called Manga Park.
(https://i.imgur.com/IvqENMZ.jpg)

Source
https://twitter.com/manumiscat/status/904641327492509697

Pretty sure it's October 1989, with no known date. Source: http://berserk.fan.coocan.jp/archive_ah.html#ah89_10

Also, when Young Animal celebrated the 20th anniversary of Berserk back in 2009, it was in the October issue.
Animal House was released on the 25th of each month, so it was October 25, 1989. They at least got that right!
Um, cover date isn't the publishing date, though. For a monthly magazine, it wouldn't have been published in the same month as the cover date. The date on a magazine cover is for newsstands to pull unsold issues from their stands.

The 20th anniversary issue was published on September 25, 2009, which coincided with the Japanese release of volume 34. Some October issues from monthly magazines have been published in late August. Here's one for example:
https://www.amazon.co.jp/月刊コミックゼノン-2017年-10-月号-雑誌/dp/B073ZYRS1W
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Aazealh on September 05, 2017, 07:25:18 AM
Um, cover date isn't the publishing date, though. For a monthly magazine, it wouldn't have been published in the same month as the cover date. The date on a magazine cover is for newsstands to pull unsold issues from their stands.

That's true, although the cover date is what's typically used to refer to these publications in print. I've never seen a site use the date they hit stores as a reference before.

Anyway, I tried to find a source to confirm that August release date. Best I could find is the article for Animal House on the Japanese edition of Wikipedia. Says the first issue was May 1989 and that it was released in March of that year. I guess that's where the info from the US Wikipedia is derived from.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Sareth on September 05, 2017, 05:48:35 PM
The issues of Animal House that I own have stamps on the top and bottom that seem to have dates 2 months ahead of the cover date, from the 22nd to the 24th. I may be wrong though, I'm not sure what the first number before 11.22 indicates.

This is from the January 1991 issue.

(https://i.imgur.com/lLIFrV1.jpg)
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Aazealh on September 05, 2017, 06:56:37 PM
The issues of Animal House that I own have stamps on the top and bottom that seem to have dates 2 months ahead of the cover date, from the 22nd to the 24th. I may be wrong though, I'm not sure what the first number before 11.22 indicates.

This is from the January 1991 issue.

Ah, good call, mine also do and the dates fit.
No idea about that number "2" though. It doesn't seem to change and obviously doesn't refer to the year... Maybe an indication of how many months separate printing from cover date? :void:
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Walter on September 05, 2017, 07:17:14 PM
Interesting that AH released to newsstands 2 months before the cover date. Thanks for the pics, Sareth! As these things get older and older, it's less feasible to hold the series to the date that the issues actually arrived on store shelves. Afterall, most newsstands get YA several days early, but the date of its actual release (2nd and 4th Fridays) are the ones people remember.

So in conclusion, I'll be celebrating Berserk's 30th anniversary on Sept 28, 2019. That's 10 years from when they celebrated the 20th, so I think that's the safest bet for the next big anniversary.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Sareth on September 05, 2017, 08:07:21 PM
Ah, good call, mine also do and the dates fit.
No idea about that number "2" though. It doesn't seem to change and obviously doesn't refer to the year... Maybe an indication of how many months separate printing from cover date? :void:

My December 1990 and January 1991 have "2" but March 1991, November 1991, and February 1992 have "3".
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Aazealh on September 05, 2017, 09:07:52 PM
My December 1990 and January 1991 have "2" but March 1991, November 1991, and February 1992 have "3".

Well your guess is as good as mine! I don't have the time to try to find out what it refers to right now.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Walter on September 06, 2017, 01:26:13 AM
My December 1990 and January 1991 have "2" but March 1991, November 1991, and February 1992 have "3".

That first number could signify the number of years for Animal House (like a "Volume" and a "Number"). That's how newspapers are categorized when they're archived, each year is a volume.  Animal House was started in March 1989, so that'd be year 1. Year 2 is March 1990-Feb 1991, and so on. Also, that thin vertical line next to the 2 in Sareth's post could be a faded 年.

Seems to check out. Here's how the sequence looks, though I had to make up a portion of the actual dates:

2.12.22 (Dec 1990)

2.1.22 (Jan 1991)

3.3.22 (March 1991)

3.11.22 (November 1991)

3.2.22 (Feb 1992)

This would be confirmed if you looked at that stamp on an Animal House from 1989 and it showed a 1.

This is a fun numbers puzzle, but it doesn't actually help us know the actual date for the original release, unless someone has Animal House #1 and can look at that date. Otherwise, I'd just go with what we already knew.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Griffith on September 06, 2017, 02:08:49 AM
Not to complicate matters further (well, a little)... but what about the 1988 prototype? It's technically not the first issue of course, which is its own milestone, but for the anniversay of "Berserk" itself it's still Berserk in its earliest tangeable form practically speaking (think of it like a band demo that leads to the first album =). So, the de facto 30th anniversary is arguably just next year. Any idea what date Miura "released" or presented it?
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Walter on September 06, 2017, 02:12:37 AM
Not to complicate matters further (well, a little)... but what about the 1988 prototype? It's technically not the first issue of course, which is its own milestone, but for the anniversay of Berserk itself it's still Berserk in its earliest tangeable form practically speaking (think of it like a band demo that leads to the first album =). So, the de facto 30th anniversary is arguably just next year. Any idea what date Miura "released" or presented it?

That would be November 26, 1988: http://berserk.fan.coocan.jp/archive_ah.html#comicomi

I think you might be able to call that "Guts' Debut" or something, but that's not really "Berserk"  :void:
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Griffith on September 06, 2017, 02:36:38 AM
That would be November 26, 1988: http://berserk.fan.coocan.jp/archive_ah.html#comicomi

Ah, cool! I'll keepthat date in mind.

Quote
I think you might be able to call that "Guts' Debut" or something, but that's not really "Berserk"  :void:

"Guts' debut," I like that, now is that his first full appearance or cameo appearance? =) But yeah, it's an interesting distiction because while the prototype is certainly the concept, traditionally things like this are judged by official release date rather than conception, writing, recording, etc.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Aazealh on September 06, 2017, 08:25:43 AM
That first number could signify the number of years for Animal House (like a "Volume" and a "Number"). That's how newspapers are categorized when they're archived, each year is a volume.  Animal House was started in March 1989, so that'd be year 1. Year 2 is March 1990-Feb 1991, and so on.

Ohh, good find, that would make sense. Still somewhat counterintuitive to not start the year in January and end it in December though. Things like these are why I classify my YAs by issue number, muuuuch simpler.

Also, that thin vertical line next to the 2 in Sareth's post could be a faded 年.

The two issues I checked last night didn't have anything before the number, but I didn't scrutinize it.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Sareth on September 06, 2017, 02:40:55 PM
Also, that thin vertical line next to the 2 in Sareth's post could be a faded 年.

Looking at a different issue it just looks like there two lines to block in the numbers, like |  3.  1. 24  |

But the first number referring to the first, second, third year of the magazine publication makes sense.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Headless Death on November 03, 2017, 02:11:39 PM
Wow, after 10 years of not reading a new berserk, I have now caught back up.  Although I was hopeful they would be further by now, I am still quite happy they have gotten further in the story than I had expected.  I was still expecting them to be on Roderick's Boat making a few more stops along the way. 

I'm happy to see that Silat and Rickert are at least working together.  And I now have another favorite moment with Rickert's Bitch slap of Griffith. :rickert:

While it will be hard to wait now to get to the event I've been waiting for since I first read through the manga 12 years ago, I am eagerly looking forward to what will happen once Casca's mind is restored. :guts:
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Aazealh on November 03, 2017, 02:35:09 PM
Wow, after 10 years of not reading a new berserk, I have now caught back up.

Long time no see, old boy.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Walter on November 03, 2017, 04:12:04 PM
Wow, after 10 years of not reading a new berserk, I have now caught back up.  Although I was hopeful they would be further by now, I am still quite happy they have gotten further in the story than I had expected.  I was still expecting them to be on Roderick's Boat making a few more stops along the way. 

Interesting, a 10-year hiatus?! SO LAZY! You've got some catching up to do :void:

Highlights over that span include:

• The community's reaction to the big Femto/SK scene (http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=10203.0), which was pretty crazy to see at the time.

• That time in 2009 when Miura answered our interview questions (http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=9513.msg166308#msg166308).

• Puella's translation of the Berserk Illustrations File interview (http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=14556.0)

• The Berserk movie trilogy and all the discussion around it (http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=12735.0)

• The god-awful 2016 animation (http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=14885.0)

• And of course all of our podcasts (http://0)
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Headless Death on November 03, 2017, 05:49:47 PM
Long time no see, old boy.
Thanks, good to see a lot of the old faces haven't slacked as much as I have.
Interesting, a 10-year hiatus?! SO LAZY! You've got some catching up to do :void:
I definitely do, Although I caught up with the current chapter, I now need to reread yet to refresh the story in my head, since its had a long time to fade since my last reread.  I told my Wife how long its been since I read it, and she commented, "So this series that you've talked about the last 6 years I've known you, and you haven't even kept up to date since before I knew you."

• The community's reaction to the big Femto/SK scene (http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=10203.0), which was pretty crazy to see at the time.
That was exciting.  One part of that I was unsure of was if SK inadvertently aided in Femto setting off the "Bomb" to merge worlds, or if SK was just unsuccessful in stopping it.

• That time in 2009 when Miura answered our interview questions (http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=9513.msg166308#msg166308).
Awesome, It's nice to hear that as of 2009, He was thinking of Berserk as 60-70% complete.  To me that means that we may be approaching the final arc within the next 10 years.

• Puella's translation of the Berserk Illustrations File interview (http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=14556.0)
I remember this one. 

• The Berserk movie trilogy and all the discussion around it (http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=12735.0)
After watching this on Netflix, got me to think it was about time to start catching up.

• The god-awful 2016 animation (http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=14885.0)
While the animation was awful for mouth movement, and making everything shiny. I appreciate it as a summary of some of the plot points, even if many things were glossed over, or outright ignored. I'm still likely to pick up the set when it's released in January, Despite the Loud clangs of the Dragonslayer.  And even wouldn't mind seeing more, as I still enjoy seeing adaptations that I can absorb lazily at times.

• And of course all of our podcasts (http://0)
I'll need to check those out.
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Walter on November 03, 2017, 06:18:10 PM
Thanks, good to see a lot of the old faces haven't slacked as much as I have.I definitely do, Although I caught up with the current chapter, I now need to reread yet to refresh the story in my head, since its had a long time to fade since my last reread.  I told my Wife how long its been since I read it, and she commented, "So this series that you've talked about the last 6 years I've known you, and you haven't even kept up to date since before I knew you."

"That's just how much you mean to me, honey"  :casca:

That was exciting.  One part of that I was unsure of was if SK inadvertently aided in Femto setting off the "Bomb" to merge worlds, or if SK was just unsuccessful in stopping it.

He was just there to slice Femto. Then his attack was manipulated and used to rupture Ganishka. He seemed rather surprised.

Awesome, It's nice to hear that as of 2009, He was thinking of Berserk as 60-70% complete.  To me that means that we may be approaching the final arc within the next 10 years.
I remember this one. 

That's true, but that's what I've said twice within the past 20 years, so we'll see :badbone:
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: DirtiestM on November 21, 2017, 10:43:06 PM
Hello skullknight forum! I've been reading Berserk and lurking on this forum since 2014 and love the podcast so I thought it was about time to post!

While I was rereading Volume 27, Flora said something that I thought was possibly relevant to where the story of Berserk left off.  As Flora presents herself as a wall of flame to protect Guts and company she says to Schierke, "My existential form will merely change. We can meet again in your dreams." At the beginning of the corridor of dreams sequence Schierke, Farnese and Casca fall asleep, and the reader gets to see inside their dreams. As Schierke and Farnese progress through Casca's dreams and collect fragments of memories they end up fighting monsters manifested by Casca's mind. In episode 351 Schierke runs out of fetishes to use so Farnese manifests Mozgus's head to fend off the approaching monsters, an object that was shown in Farnese's own dream. With the dreamscape becoming even more hostile as Schierke and Farnese approach the last memory that will help put back together Casca's mind, Schierke and Farnese may be in need of additional assistance.

I think that Flora might make some kind of appearance to help Schierke and Farnese, either as a wall of flame like she appeared as to defend against Grunbeld or maybe just as emotional or moral support for Schierke so that she can persevere. That being said, what Flora said in volume 27 maybe shouldn't be taken literally. Instead, the Sovereign of the Flower Storm might just intervene or Schierke and Farnese will persevere on their own and think of some clever way fight against the resistance of Casca's own mind. Or even something else.

Either way I am sooooooo excited for the upcoming episode!
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Walter on November 22, 2017, 02:02:01 AM
Hey Dirtiest, welcome! I Hope you don't mind me merging your post into this existing thread.

Hello skullknight forum! I've been reading Berserk and lurking on this forum since 2014 and love the podcast so I thought it was about time to post!

Aw, thanks for joining us in these quiet times between releases :farnese:

Quote
While I was rereading Volume 27, Flora said something that I thought was possibly relevant to where the story of Berserk left off.  As Flora presents herself as a wall of flame to protect Guts and company she says to Schierke, "My existential form will merely change. We can meet again in your dreams."

Not to preclude what you're about to say, but I think most would take Flora at her word in this regard -- that she would be able to visit Schierke in her dreams (not Casca's). Even though that hasn't happened yet, I don't doubt that it will at some point.

Quote
I think that Flora might make some kind of appearance to help Schierke and Farnese, either as a wall of flame like she appeared as to defend against Grunbeld or maybe just as emotional or moral support for Schierke so that she can persevere.

I think it would make sense within the context of the other summons, a manifestation of those beings could be present in the dream sequence, ferried along into Casca's dream world by these other two dreamers. But I don't think it would make sense for Flora -- the real Flora -- to make an appearance here and now. After all, the Sovereign's involvement with the corridor has been relegated to flower petals guiding the way. That's likely by design, so as to not add a foreign entity to this deeply personal journey. I just don't see Flora stepping on the Sovereign's toes here.

Quote
Instead, the Sovereign of the Flower Storm might just intervene

Possible, but I feel like it'd be a little like cheating if they couldn't resolve this circumstance themselves, and rely on a higher power to solve the problem. 

Quote
or Schierke and Farnese will persevere on their own and think of some clever way fight against the resistance of Casca's own mind.

Always bet on Schierke   :guts:
Title: Re: Episode 351
Post by: Headless Death on November 22, 2017, 03:27:43 PM
I like the thought of a dream Casca coming to their Aid.  Where Farnese and Schierke get a chance to see the strength and determination of a true Casca.  I figure this fits with the idea that a person cannot be healed without their desire to return.  Casca may return in order to protect that feeling of familiarity and support she gets from Farnese and Schierke as she regains the final fragment.  Since we know that the battle hardened Casca is in there somewhere as demonstrated when she killed her would be rapists.  And the rules of the dream world are determined by the dreamer as explained by the Sovereign.