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Berserk => Current Episodes => Topic started by: The Beast of Darkness on April 16, 2018, 02:23:27 PM

Title: Episode 356
Post by: The Beast of Darkness on April 16, 2018, 02:23:27 PM
Hi everyone,

The upcoming issue is available for pre-order:
http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/product/NEOBK-2221127?s_ssid=e356495ad46a78f033
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: jackson_hurley on April 16, 2018, 04:49:10 PM
That's early! But thx for the heads up. Just pre-ordered mine!   :guts:
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Aazealh on April 16, 2018, 04:55:10 PM
Thanks for the heads-up! That one's going to attract collectors. :guts:
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: jackson_hurley on April 16, 2018, 05:48:45 PM
Thanks for the heads-up! That one's going to attract collectors. :guts:

Hh for sure! Pretty much why I jumped on it as soon as I read the thread. Can't wait to see the content.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Gobolatula on April 16, 2018, 06:11:30 PM
Thank you, Beast! Pre-ordered!  :guts:  :casca:
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Death May Die on April 16, 2018, 06:23:12 PM
Got mine ordered! Thank you Beast!  :beast:
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Sareth on April 16, 2018, 08:52:29 PM
Dang, I missed it
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: slothqueen on April 24, 2018, 01:23:18 PM
It's out.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Sareth on April 24, 2018, 01:37:43 PM
People were joking about the story suddenly shifting focus before Guts and Casca come together, I can't believe it actually happened  :ganishka:
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Aazealh on April 24, 2018, 01:39:34 PM
Haha, Miura's such a tease. What an episode to choose to switch sides! But then again, what better time to do it than after a huge cliffhanger (classic narrative technique that makes the reader devour the story).

Anyway, great spectacle there, I'll never tire of seeing transformed apostles going toe-to-toe with other mighty foes. Although it feels odd to see Zodd being "just a guy" among the rest of the army. I feel sad for him, though it's the life he's chosen. It's a bit reminiscent of when Guts was fighting as a mercenary.

Moving on, that Falconia's armies would go against astral creatures was expected, but it's interesting that these giants are shown as being the obvious bad guys here. I'm curious to see whether future developments/revelations will cast the situation under a more ambiguous light.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Griffith on April 24, 2018, 01:45:22 PM
Lol :troll:

I dig the giant king there, I just wish we were meeting under different circumstances. :guts:
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Walter on April 24, 2018, 01:50:00 PM
Well, I was a little disappointed given the shift, but we've been waiting to see the world after Fantasia for about 8 years, so here we are!

Moving on, that Falconia's armies would go against astral creatures was expected, but it's interesting that these giants are shown as being the obvious bad guys here. I'm curious to see whether future developments/revelations will cast the situation under a more ambiguous light.

I'd bet that Miura is showing us the worst of the Fantasia inhabitants now, those who absolutely couldn't co-exist with humanity, as a way to allow Griffith to justify a purge of them all. In a few eps, we could see them wiping out cute lil' guys with the same fervor.  :sad:

A pro-humanity / anti-magical creature campaign would be an expansion of the God Hand's domain.

BTW: Any Hardcore History listeners get a "Celtic Holocaust" vibe here?
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Truder on April 24, 2018, 01:52:14 PM
Well.. now we can find out what Griffiths plans are in the new world. Is he going to wipe out these semi intelligent creatures. Or is he going to take it step further in combining the world.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Mangetsu on April 24, 2018, 01:58:53 PM
The art in this episode is absolutely unreal. It also is a short episode (15 pages), regardless i love this switch being honest
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Delta Phi on April 24, 2018, 02:01:45 PM
So Griffith's conquest continues. I wonder how much of this is out of necessary precautions and how much of it is simply for show. I imagine it's a bit of both, but mostly the latter. I'm totally digging these giant designs.

I'd bet that Miura is showing us the worst of the Fantasia inhabitants now, those who absolutely couldn't co-exist with humanity, as a way to allow Griffith to justify a purge of them all. In a few eps, we could see them wiping out cute lil' guys with the same fervor.

A lot of these humans are already predisposed to viewing witchcraft as heretical. With the Pontiff behind him, Griffith is probably only a short step away from lumping even the most pure creatures (such as those on Skellig) into the same bag as the rest.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Walter on April 24, 2018, 02:02:46 PM
It also is a short episode (15 pages)

At first I thought you were counting 2-page spreads as a single page, but nope. Wow. Shortest ep ever? Or it's just missing a few pages...
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Lithrael on April 24, 2018, 02:04:55 PM
IGRGUDT, OMG ARE U WEAR BEAR BUTT INTO BATTLE?  THATS SO TACKY

SHUT UP GRODSN UR MAN SKULL BELT DOESNT EVEN SMELL ANYMORE

These guys have been slayin some big ass beasts n norse analogs up north - looks like cannons n ranged weapons are news to them but if King is smart he's not gonna want to get all his guys exploded out of dedication to the old strategy of show up and smash.  Even if he does like to throw his bell at his own dogs.  The Falconia crew teamed up with the harpies already, if only for a bit - is this a show of force and then a parlay, rather than a 'wipe-em-out'?  Plenty of apostles were never above showing up waving corpse bits around on sticks themselves.

First panel: OWW I STEPPED ON A LEGO
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Mangetsu on April 24, 2018, 02:06:02 PM
At first I thought you were counting 2-page spreads as a single page, but nope. Wow. Shortest ep ever?

Nope, nope. One thing i wonder about is if that announcment for getting episodes more regulary now is actually happening. Guess we will find out in 2 weeks!
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Grail on April 24, 2018, 02:11:49 PM
Haha, well, dangit! I will count myself among the folks who were REALLY hoping for more Guts and Casca before switching back to Falconia, but if we were gonna go back, this was a really cool scenario for it. It was almost as if Miura was saying, "Sorry everyone, but here are some badass fight scenes to tide you over in the meantime!"  :guts: I can't even be disappointed. The giants are all so distinct and interesting-looking, and watching them getting destroyed by apostles is a real treat. We even get some time with Mule, Raban and Sonia! I missed that crew.

Not to get too ahead of myself, but it's looking to me like we'll get another several episodes with Griffith and co, which will lead to a possible short "skip" after the disastrous reunion between Guts and Casca. That leads me to wonder, are the events we're watching take place in this episode concurrent with the events in Elfhelm, or is Miura possibly going to pull a little narrative trick with that? I wonder!
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Aazealh on April 24, 2018, 02:17:20 PM
I'd bet that Miura is showing us the worst of the Fantasia inhabitants now, those who absolutely couldn't co-exist with humanity, as a way to allow Griffith to justify a purge of them all. In a few eps, we could see them wiping out cute lil' guys with the same fervor.  :sad:

Yeah that's definitely a good possibility. I also wonder if the giants weren't provoked, or aren't embodying a kind of vengeance against mankind for past misdeeds, or a resistance against future ones.
Another possibly, a bit more far-fetched (this is all we've talked about before years ago :void:), but I'm curious to know whether the nature of the Astral Blast (all the evil power Ganishka had amassed in his body) didn't corrupt the "Astral Fauna" in some way, or at least influence the ratio of bellicose creatures versus peaceful ones.


Well.. now we can find out what Griffiths plans are in the new world. Is he going to wipe out these semi intelligent creatures. Or is he going to take it step further in combining the world.

Looks pretty clearly like the first option right now, and I don't think the second one was really ever on the table? Not sure how that would work.

The Falconia crew teamed up with the harpies already, if only for a bit

I don't think so, no. Aren't you just mistaken with that one lady apostle that's kind of owlish?

Not to get too ahead of myself, but it's looking to me like we'll get another several episodes with Griffith and co, which will lead to a possible short "skip" after the disastrous reunion between Guts and Casca. That leads me to wonder, are the events we're watching take place in this episode concurrent with the events in Elfhelm, or is Miura possibly going to pull a little narrative trick with that? I wonder!

Yeah, that seems likely. Probably part of the complex narrative plan Miura has set for how to reestablish Guts and Casca's relationship.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Bohdan on April 24, 2018, 02:25:19 PM
Not to get too ahead of myself, but it's looking to me like we'll get another several episodes with Griffith and co, which will lead to a possible short "skip" after the disastrous reunion between Guts and Casca. That leads me to wonder, are the events we're watching take place in this episode concurrent with the events in Elfhelm, or is Miura possibly going to pull a little narrative trick with that? I wonder!

I see it that way: if something is about to happen to Elfhelm in general, Griff episodes will be before Elfhelm, they end with a tease of him (or his minions) coming there, then we go to Elfhelm with Guts and Casca minding their business and then Elfhelm gets attacked or something. It makes sense to me at least but it needs to recall this rule of time flowing differently in this place in a good manner.

But we don't know anything what is about to happen so yeah. It might turn out to be something different entirely.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Walter on April 24, 2018, 02:29:20 PM
My favorite moment here is the King Giant drinking (looks like a cocktail?) from a bell, the kind you'd see atop a church. Then he tosses it down, squishing a troll. This is my kinda guy!  :guts: It's interesting that trolls are scurrying around the feet of the giants. I wonder if they function like parasites, eating the scraps the giants leave in their wake.

Yeah that's definitely a good possibility. I also wonder if the giants weren't provoked, or aren't embodying a kind of vengeance against mankind for past misdeeds, or a resistance against future ones.

Well the flag markings certainly beg the question what kind of civilization they have, apart from their obvious focus on warfare. I wonder if the king will speak before Griffith slices his neck (and what he'd say, other than "DIEEEEE")

Quote
Another possibly, a bit more far-fetched (this is all we've talked about before years ago :void:), but I'm curious to know whether the nature of the Astral Blast (all the evil power Ganishka had amassed in his body) didn't corrupt the "Astral Fauna" in some way, or at least influence the ratio of bellicose creatures versus peaceful ones.

It didn't look like it in ep 306, seemed like an even mix, but could be. I still wonder about the environment, and if/how that changed as a result of the blast as well. The shift is a little frustrating, but we're still slowly getting the answers to things we pondered almost 10 years ago.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Lithrael on April 24, 2018, 02:30:12 PM
I was sort of assuming the inhabitants of the previously unseen world would be pretty close to embodiments of the human legends about them - these big nasty things being your archetypal 'behave kid cause there's ravening monsters out there that will get you' beasts.  I forget how the relationship has been described in the past - was it more that they already existed and human legends grew based on them, or that human imagination had a role in creating/shaping them?  In any case there's enough cruelty in the legends to account for what we've seen, but the notion that Ganishka's wave could have tainted them further is interesting. 

One of the things that interests me is what they'd be doing marching way the heck out of their home territory to get in a fight with Falconia.  Did they really just eat themselves out of all of Scandanavia-analog already?  Or is Falconia Famous Among Monsters?
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Mangetsu on April 24, 2018, 02:33:02 PM
 Being honest, i love the timing of the switch for the episode. I had been asking myself anyways when we will be getting a switch to Griffith, due to his soon to be coronation and wedding. This episode is definitely the set up for going towards that direction.

It also makes sense to do that now, rather than spending more time on the island, which would make the timeskip probably too long to have these events in a timeline that make sense. Additionally when we get off the island in the future, we will see the consequences of Griffith having become a king.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Walter on April 24, 2018, 02:36:05 PM
I forget how the relationship has been described in the past - was it more that they already existed and human legends grew based on them, or that human imagination had a role in creating/shaping them?

I don't believe that humans dreamt up everything in the astral world. For example, things like the Four Kings and elves weren't borne of humans, because they're affiliated with the elements. Though the link between worlds was severed long ago, people's memories of those creatures lived on in stories, legends, in people's imaginations, basically on the fringes of perception (and in dreams). At least, that's my reading of the text in Ep 306.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: RaffoBaffo on April 24, 2018, 02:37:21 PM
Welp, that hurt.
Thankfully I love everything Griffith, and I'm really interested in Falconia and the Astral Beam.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: MrFlibble on April 24, 2018, 02:37:48 PM
Episode 357: In a death defying duel between Griffith and the Giant leader, Griffith suddenly transforms into the Moonlight Boy and teleports to Fantasia where we return to the POV of Guts' crew :ganishka:

At least we have an answer to where Zodd and Grunbeld have been, It's expected that Griffith's shock troops would be at the front lines. It's also interesting to see creatures introduced to us in volume 34, oddly these creatures seem more intelligent than the astral monsters we've seen so far, they form flags, suits of DIY armour, and crude weapons. I wonder what the overall point of this battle is, are the Falcons simply defending their borders? is this a form of expansion of Falconia's territory? or does Griffith want to recruit the giants? Either way this will provide some well needed context of the state of Fantasia, since the last Griffith POV episode focused mainly on Rickert, I hope this time we will see the next steps in Griffith's plan.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: jackson_hurley on April 24, 2018, 02:39:23 PM
I like the giant's armour made out of human stuff like a regular armour used for leg padding and a boat used for a helmet. Priceless!

I must add that Sonia's face doesn't seem to happy about that attack (might be that I read her wrong) but she does seem happy... Might be she's starting to be against such savagery? I would not necessarily bet on that though.

Thoughts?


Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Lithrael on April 24, 2018, 03:03:07 PM
My favorite moment here is the King Giant drinking (looks like a cocktail?) from a bell

That's the bell ringy bit, not an olive on a toothpick!

Quote from: Walter
It's interesting that trolls are scurrying around the feet of the giants.

They've got leashes on as well. 

Quote from: Walter
Well the flag markings certainly beg the question what kind of civilization they have, apart from their obvious focus on warfare.

I assumed the flag markings came with the skins (tattoos) rather than being put on them by the giants.  Though the skinning work itself is pretty fine, compared to the lack of skill involved in wearing an entire bear butt or tying some troll hide around your legs.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Squiddot on April 24, 2018, 03:09:00 PM

I wonder what the overall point of this battle is, are the Falcons simply defending their borders? is this a form of expansion of Falconia's territory? or does Griffith want to recruit the giants? Either way this will provide some well needed context of the state of Fantasia, since the last Griffith POV episode focused mainly on Rickert, I hope this time we will see the next steps in Griffith's plan.


The lack of giant trunk on the horizon suggests to me that Griffith is a long way from home right now. But it's hard to tell with those big, stormy clouds. If it is as far as I assume, then it lends a bit of credence to the idea Griffith is doing some recruiting rather than border protection. These guys look like they can follow orders at least.

I agree that it's exciting to see why what developments Miura is going to present with Griffith. If we do make it as far as his coronation it will be really exciting because that's been his end goal since the beginning as far as i'm aware. The last check on his dream list ticked off. And where do you go from there?

Hopefully, while we're here we might also see if there were any repercussions to Rakshas' failed assassination.



I must add that Sonia's face doesn't seem to happy about that attack (might be that I read her wrong) but she does seem happy... Might be she's starting to be against such savagery? I would not necessarily bet on that though.

Thoughts?


Maybe she's still thinking about the encounter between Rickert and Griffith.

Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Bohdan on April 24, 2018, 03:10:11 PM
I have a feeling that we will see Griffith stumbling soon. In a very minor sense, nothing lethal but something that makes him and/or others question why that happened. I can't really think of any reason for why it would happen now but I don't really think we will see Griffith untouchable all the way until the very end. Sure we saw Rickert's slap but that could be something Griffith didn't mind, because it's Rickert. I just think that the plot is going to get more complicated due to the world being more chaotic in its nature. I hope for that at least.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: no name on April 24, 2018, 03:11:31 PM
I love the design of the monster on the second page in the right.A boat armor, i love it.  :ganishka:
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Walter on April 24, 2018, 03:23:49 PM
That's the bell ringy bit, not an olive on a toothpick!

Ahh, of course! It did seem like a conspicuous design choice at first, now it's obvious  :ganishka:

Quote
They've got leashes on as well. 

Oh yeah, they're snacks!

Quote
I assumed the flag markings came with the skins (tattoos) rather than being put on them by the giants.  Though the skinning work itself is pretty fine, compared to the lack of skill involved in wearing an entire bear butt or tying some troll hide around your legs.

It looks to me like they skinned humans, put them on a flagpole, and then marked on them with paint as war banners.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Kaladin on April 24, 2018, 04:07:03 PM
Was a bit surprised by the switch in pov but was quickly seduced by the art in the episode. These new giants look amazing especially their boss, doesn't look like much time has passed which is good for coronation purposes, we will see it live. hopefully the giant boss puts up a good show before he gets swept up, eagerly forward to what's coming next!.

Oh and haha Zodd does't look too big anymore compared to these guys, he doesn't even look hyped about the fight  :ganishka:
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Lithrael on April 24, 2018, 04:07:25 PM
Oh yeah, they're snacks!

Boat snack!  :troll:

Quote from: Walter
It looks to me like they skinned humans, put them on a flagpole, and then marked on them with paint as war banners.

I really doubt it.  They look way more like designs the humans would have tattooed or painted to me.  The lines are clean and symmetrical and stuff.   They're not inconsistent with existing human warpaint/tattoo designs.  The giants' style seems to be 'we found this and thought it was neat and repurposed it' rather than 'we made this.'  I suppose it could be Giant art though, the designs would wrap awkwardly if they were on live humans.  Either way I'm left wondering how the humans were killed cleanly enough to skin whole like that.  Must have been captives or something rather than killed in battle.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Squiddot on April 24, 2018, 04:17:53 PM
I really doubt it.  They look way more like designs the humans would have tattooed or painted to me.

If you mentally wrap these skins back around people some of these "tattoos" are a bit weird, Like the guy with a single dragon stretching from his right shoulder to his left knee. It's not really synonymous with real world tribal tattoos. Plus, the architecture and armour these giants a wielding seem to suggest they've been preying on run of the mill Midlanders.

Either way I'm left wondering how the humans were killed cleanly enough to skin whole like that.

Perhaps it's the same secret giant tech that helps the breasts to stay so voluptuous post-skinning.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Walter on April 24, 2018, 04:18:45 PM
I really doubt it.  They look way more like designs the humans would have tattooed or painted to me.  The lines are clean and symmetrical and stuff.   They're not inconsistent with existing human warpaint/tattoo designs.

It doesn't look like body art to me though. It looks like the giants used skin as a flat canvas. The way the contours of the "eyes" are drawn consistently regardless of the folds in underarms, for example. If that was body art, it wouldn't have made any sense until it was laid flat. I also don't understand why people would tattoo a big giant's mouth (presumably) over their abdomen, versus a giant doing it after the human had been skinned.

Bigger question, Griffith and his apostles are on a crusade against such creatures. But what would go down if they came across Ubik's merry men? Or Conrad's skeleton krew?
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Truder on April 24, 2018, 04:30:52 PM

Bigger question, Griffith and his apostles are on a crusade against such creatures. But what would go down if they came across Ubik's merry men? Or Conrad's skeleton krew?


it would be interesting if they showed us conlict between God hand members. that would reveal a lot about where the story is going.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Grail on April 24, 2018, 04:39:07 PM
Put me in the camp of post-death body painting for the human war banners. I think there's probably a graphic designer giant in the crew with an exceptionally steady hand.  :ganishka:
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: MrFlibble on April 24, 2018, 04:48:24 PM

Bigger question, Griffith and his apostles are on a crusade against such creatures. But what would go down if they came across Ubik's merry men? Or Conrad's skeleton krew?


Are they even in the current world layer?
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Lithrael on April 24, 2018, 05:02:15 PM
Put me in the camp of post-death body painting for the human war banners. I think there's probably a graphic designer giant in the crew with an exceptionally steady hand.  :ganishka:

Lol, ok, yeah, on reflection it looks like you guys are right.   

Also having fun picturing them doing up the knots on their backs for each other. 
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Faded on April 24, 2018, 05:11:24 PM
I don't mind a POV change. Anything is better than a hiatus.  :magni:

I agree with the other posters saying this seems like its far away from Falconia.

What this says to me is that its only a matter of time before Griffith lays siege to Elf Helm. All astral creatures must die it seems. Not only that, but one would think that Elf Helm is one of the "spiritual mistletoes" that are talked about in earlier volumes. One theory might be that the God Hand have to eliminate all the mistletoes in order for the world tree to fully blossom & completely fuse the astral layers?

Side note:
Very interesting to see Sonia's facial expressions.  (almost as if she's dragging her feet a bit in her task)  I have been filling the speculation threads with ridiculous Sonia theories lately and the way she's drawn here only adds to my intrigue.

Very short & to the point chapter that communicates a surprising amount.

Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Aazealh on April 24, 2018, 05:15:33 PM
My favorite moment here is the King Giant drinking (looks like a cocktail?) from a bell, the kind you'd see atop a church. Then he tosses it down, squishing a troll. This is my kinda guy!  :guts: It's interesting that trolls are scurrying around the feet of the giants. I wonder if they function like parasites, eating the scraps the giants leave in their wake.

Haha yeah he's pretty great. That being said, he's got sweat on his temple and you can see that the "cup" is trembling in his hand before he drops it on the trolls (who are tied like pets), so I don't think he's feeling very confident about facing Griffith at all. But anyways, like I was telling Grail, it's not like the goal of this sequence is the death of the giant king. That fight is just an introduction to more important matters to the plot. :slan:

It didn't look like it in ep 306, seemed like an even mix, but could be. I still wonder about the environment, and if/how that changed as a result of the blast as well. The shift is a little frustrating, but we're still slowly getting the answers to things we pondered almost 10 years ago.

Haha damn, ten years already... Time fucking flies. :flora:

One of the things that interests me is what they'd be doing marching way the heck out of their home territory to get in a fight with Falconia.  Did they really just eat themselves out of all of Scandanavia-analog already?  Or is Falconia Famous Among Monsters?

I think you might have this in reverse. This could be a raiding expedition that Griffith and his troops are conducting a ways away from Falconia. Also, aside from the giants themselves I don't think there's necessarily an overwhelming connection to Norse mythology here, nor that it would imply that these giants actually come from "up North" compared to where Falconia is situated. You can see that they've preyed on Holy See troops for example (one of the shields), so... yeah.

I had been asking myself anyways when we will be getting a switch to Griffith, due to his soon to be coronation and wedding. This episode is definitely the set up for going towards that direction.

Keep in mind that we don't necessarily need to see the coronation or the wedding in real-time as they happen. Could be through a flashback if Miura deems it more appropriate. Like something Raban or Mule would reflect on. Hell, it could have happened already! :iva: I mean, I think we'll probably get to see them live but the point is that these events, while symbolic, aren't necessarily super important to the plot given that Griffith is already a god-king (with Charlotte as his obedient consort) as it is. If anything I hope there'll be more than meets the eye when it happens.

I'm really interested in Falconia and the Astral Beam.

The Astral Beam? What do you mean?

If we do make it as far as his coronation it will be really exciting because that's been his end goal since the beginning as far as i'm aware. The last check on his dream list ticked off. And where do you go from there?

Being king was Griffith's dream when he was human. To him it was the biggest thing a man could possibly be. But that was long ago. Femto is beyond mankind's rules, and therefore his ambition is now on another scale. Guts told the Great Gurus as much in their village. As a result, the coronation is somewhat perfunctory. Ask yourself: what will it change?

Bigger question, Griffith and his apostles are on a crusade against such creatures. But what would go down if they came across Ubik's merry men? Or Conrad's skeleton krew?

I'm not sure that's really possible. There's no doubt the rest of the God Hand "got in" when Femto unleashed the Blast of the Astral World, but I'm not convinced that what we saw then now exists physically in the world. It certainly would be a sight to behold, though.

it would be interesting if they showed us conlict between God hand members. that would reveal a lot about where the story is going.

Well, personally I really don't think the story is going towards a conflict between members of the God Hand...

Not only that, but one would think that Elf Helm is one of the "spiritual mistletoes" that are talked about in earlier volumes. One theory might be that the God Hand have to eliminate all the mistletoes in order for the world tree to fully blossom & completely fuse the astral layers?

I get why you use the "mistletoe" reference, since those giant spiritual trees are parasitic to the World Spiral Tree, but that's a pretty big misnomer.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Fancypantaloons on April 24, 2018, 05:49:05 PM
I can't say I'm not a bit dissapointed because of the switch, but I welcome this episode with open arms. We are advancing, and that's always a good thing. Not to mention the incredible art Miura always delivers, and this creature hunt Griffith is leading is quite interesting, let's see where it goes from here.  :puck:
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Aazealh on April 24, 2018, 07:13:32 PM
Two things from Puella I forgot to mention earlier:

Episode title is "Jötunn (1)", with the kanji meaning "giants" and the furigana indicating the name. It's a Norse mythology reference.

There's not much text in the episode, but Sonia chastizes Mule for not being careful enough, then she speaks to Griffith through telepathy. She tells him where the Giant King is (east of the battlefield), that there's a clear path to him, and more importantly to be careful because she senses a large and ominous shadow that is hidden in the bushes behind the soldiers.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: ApostleBob on April 24, 2018, 07:59:21 PM
I love how the Giants have all sorts of recycled shields, armor and even a rooftop used as armor. In the two page spread it looks like one is using a cannon, and another a battering ram as a club in addition to the trees of the others. Very creative details that tell us right away that these giants are dangerous and yet have no real culture of their own. They are just scavenging human things.

Interesting that the giants don't really get any good hits on Griffith's army. No humans or apostles really take any damage. It seems like this is all pretty routine for the Band of the Falcon.

I'm surprised we don't see Grunbeld or Zodd get any hits in here after they've been featured the way they are. Probably something for next episode.


BTW: Any Hardcore History listeners get a "Celtic Holocaust" vibe here?[/spoiler]

Yep, I love that series. It really puts events like this and the general approach to ancient warefare into a historical context
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: NightCrawler on April 24, 2018, 08:03:37 PM
Finally Berserk got back to what matters. Killing giant monsters. :ganishka: This change is here to stay for the next chapters. See you next year Casca.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Theozilla on April 24, 2018, 08:37:21 PM
Slightly disappointed that we got a narrative shift, but I have no doubt the shift will work fine when collected. Otherwise, it was a simple but effective narrative opener episode. The visuals were great too, the details in the giants design really elevate their memorability for what are likely to be two-off episode obstacles. Curious what the ominous shadow will turn out to be, and if Sonia's demeanor is indicative of any significant immediate development.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Jaze1618 on April 24, 2018, 09:03:06 PM
I love that there is a giant king. I know its hardly similar, but it was enough to give me a dark souls 2 giant lord flashback. Fun world that Miura is building.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Sespha on April 24, 2018, 09:30:19 PM
While the switch was a bit unexpected for me, I think it opens new and intresting venues through which the story may move on. The information we have about Falconia and the world in it's current state is limited, so this change of POV might be to explore such aspects, as well as to give us some new info concerning Griffith's plans. If we are lucky we might get a glimpse at what the rest of the God hand might be doing
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Cyrus Jong on April 24, 2018, 10:53:35 PM
Hmmm, bit disappointed by the switch in perspectives. I really wanted to see what was in store for Guts and Casca, but it looks like we'll have to wait a while for that. And it's a short episode too at 15 pages, but then again, the last one ran a pretty lengthy 24 pages, so I guess it all balances out in the end.

That aside...even if it did disappoint me, I'm still interested in seeing where this is leading to, which seldom ever happens whenever a story disappoints me. We're seeing what's going on in the Griffith camp, getting a more hands-on look at the world outside Falconia, and getting some (more) firsthand evidence on how utterly unlivable it has become for humanity. I'm really digging the giants' designs, how they're all improvising various things for armor. One guy is using a door for a shield, another is using a rooftop as a helmet, and another is using a whole cuirass as a codpiece :ganishka:. And the king is fully decked out in what looks like dragon bones. I can't wait for the day when we see one of those beasties in action.

However, it's Sonia that's standing out to me. She's always had this look of bubbly, childlike excitement about her, but now she looks very serious for once. It can't just be because she suspects the giant king has something up his bony sleeve. Is something about the encounter with Rickert troubling her, as Squiddot said? Are her unrequited feelings for Griffith starting to seriously frustrate her? Or what? Guess we'll find out soon.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: DirtiestM on April 24, 2018, 11:10:01 PM
It will be interesting to see where it goes from here on the Falconia side. Most likely Griffith will defeat the giant king, (giants on my mind from GOW4 lol) but it will be interesting to see a segue from this battle or the "so-what". I wonder if the human troops agree with going out of their way to fight these non-human beings because of classic Griffith Falcon of Light Brainwashing or if anyone questions the reasoning of the soon-to-be king. Besides this specific instance I wonder if any of the citizens of Falconia will question Griffith's decision making in the near future, it will be interesting to see if there are any consequences for not agreeing. We probably already saw a glimpse of this with Rickert and the anger from Locus and actual assassination attempt from Rakshas. Additionally, I wonder what would happen later on in the story if an important human character like Charlotte or Sonia find out Griffith's history and impact to the world. It would be interesting to see in the distant future a reunion of Charlotte and Casca or Sonia and Schierke to see if anyone currently under Griffith's brainwashing can change their mind about Griffith and see him in a new light, especially characters who think so highly of him. It kinda stunk not seeing Casca this month, but it was really nice to see the Apostles, Falconians and Astral beings drawn after such a long time. Per usual, super excited for the podcast and next episode. 
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: ApostleBob on April 25, 2018, 12:03:58 AM
Well we have some returning apostles and a few new ones. I need to update my rogues gallery, but here's what I noticed right away. I apologize for the list of links.


There are quite a few returning apostles from the 'Unleash Evil' battle against the Ganishka spawn. -

https://imgur.com/R2tEvmw (https://imgur.com/R2tEvmw)

The Horn-headed octopus-guy featured prominently in that fight:

https://imgur.com/taAG6b5 (https://imgur.com/taAG6b5)

https://imgur.com/Ul7bOCq (https://imgur.com/Ul7bOCq)

https://imgur.com/NYgvapy (https://imgur.com/NYgvapy)

And the Skeletal Goat apostle is back:

https://imgur.com/zVhqvdZ (https://imgur.com/zVhqvdZ)

https://imgur.com/emKlBSw (https://imgur.com/emKlBSw)

The bug apostle was also there (This guy really needs a name):

https://imgur.com/sT7WigO (https://imgur.com/sT7WigO)

https://imgur.com/a6gGdtV (https://imgur.com/a6gGdtV)

https://imgur.com/22YuaGR (https://imgur.com/22YuaGR)

There is also an apostle from the Eclipse that's shown up in the same Ganishka battle. He's the pincher phallus guy.

https://imgur.com/CWK7SAX (https://imgur.com/CWK7SAX)

https://imgur.com/9DRk8kI (https://imgur.com/9DRk8kI)

https://imgur.com/iXz4k17 (https://imgur.com/iXz4k17)

We also get to see his full body now:

https://imgur.com/hp0Mlm8 (https://imgur.com/hp0Mlm8)

There is also a praying mantis apostle we've seen once before with Ganishka, but never close up.

https://imgur.com/ZROCHmm (https://imgur.com/ZROCHmm)

https://imgur.com/LdORcvp  (https://imgur.com/LdORcvp)

(https://imgur.com/iXz4k17)

https://imgur.com/hp0Mlm8 (https://imgur.com/hp0Mlm8)

Beyond that, I'll need to do more comparisons on the quadruped ones. Some might be returning stars.

And so far no apostle deaths since Falconia!
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: NCHaskew on April 25, 2018, 04:59:21 AM
Miura noooo  :isidro:

Well, actually, I have been curious about giants ever since that gorgeous shot from the beginning of Fantasia--you all know the one. And I gotta say, despite its length, this episode delivers on that intrigue. I absolutely love the design of the giants. There's something that feels very classic fantasy about them, you know?

So after the initial shock, I think this should keep me from going crazy over wondering what will happen with Guts and Casca. Maybe. We'll see. I'm very interested to see where this bit of Griffith's storyline will go. Will it culminate with his coronation? With him subjugating/liberating the rest of the world? The real cruel move would be to build up to a big, sought-after event (such as the coronation/wedding) and then cut to Rickert's storyline. That's what I'd do if I was a mean author with a fanbase as hooked as Berserk's  :ganishka:

Also, I'm very curious to see how the giant king will react to Griffith, assuming he isn't immediately murdered. Because there seems to be some rudimentary intelligence among these monsters--more so than trolls or ogres at least. But they aren't apostles, so they (presumably) aren't under the direct governance of the God Hand. At this point, it could go either way; giant annihilation or assimilation.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: TheStruggler on April 25, 2018, 06:00:42 AM

I am sorry but this is not how you do a teases or "engage" your reader.
Why I am being taken to Femto's shenanigans? What purpose did it serve? What new or different it showed before the island? Oh, Femto conquering again? Good, same thing he did last time, so no new shit in Falconia same old kicking ass to expand his kingdom. I would never guessed.
It was a boring episode, felt like recycled and strong vibe of deja-vu. This was a cheap move...

These are my thoughts, feel free to disagree, but I stay strongly behind it. And if for some time we switch to Griffith's perspective, I take a nap.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Aazealh on April 25, 2018, 06:01:16 AM
Alright, third page of the thread guys, I think we can drop spoiler tags.

However, it's Sonia that's standing out to me. She's always had this look of bubbly, childlike excitement about her, but now she looks very serious for once. It can't just be because she suspects the giant king has something up his bony sleeve. Is something about the encounter with Rickert troubling her, as Squiddot said? Are her unrequited feelings for Griffith starting to seriously frustrate her? Or what? Guess we'll find out soon.

I don't know, I think it might just be because she's using telepathy.

Besides this specific instance I wonder if any of the citizens of Falconia will question Griffith's decision making in the near future, it will be interesting to see if there are any consequences for not agreeing. We probably already saw a glimpse of this with Rickert and the anger from Locus and actual assassination attempt from Rakshas. Additionally, I wonder what would happen later on in the story if an important human character like Charlotte or Sonia find out Griffith's history and impact to the world.

Rickert's case was very special for a variety of reasons, but I do think a kind of "dissident faction" will form in Falconia eventually. I would imagine that Luka and her girls would be part of, or maybe even at the center of it. I think it may be a while before that happens though. Also, the question of Charlotte and/or Sonia facing the true nature of Femto has been laid out a long time ago, and... yeah, still curious to see how that will work out.

I am sorry but this is not how you do a teases or "engage" your reader.
Why I am being taken to Femto's shenanigans? What purpose did it serve? What new or different it showed before the island? Oh, Femto conquering again? Good, same thing he did last time, so no new shit in Falconia same old kicking ass to expand his kingdom. I would never guessed.
It was a boring episode, felt like recycled and strong vibe of deja-vu. This was a cheap move...

:schierke: Yeah, you should be sorry. Because this is actually exactly how you create an engaging narrative storyline. Having two sides you switch from is a very classic literary technique (used to great effect in sci-fi classics like Dune or Hyperion, for example), and switching as a new crisis occurs, but back to something else that's also very big, is how you end up with readers that spend their whole night reading because they were so hooked they couldn't put the book down. I mean, it's an established fact that Miura's a master storyteller, but even putting that aside, this is not some outrageous new thing no one's ever done before. In fact it's been done before in Berserk, too.

And really, I'm used to enduring impatient whiners with no ability to envision how the story might develop beyond the latest episode, but your post makes you seem really clueless here. As I've said yesterday, it's not like fighting these giants is the main point of this sequence of events. That's just the introduction as we return to Griffith's side of the story. It will then move on, in the next episodes, to what the real point might be. Lastly, you must realize that switching away from Guts & Casca was also likely because Miura has constructed the story in a way that calls for not seeing directly the aftermath of what occurred in episode 355. Given that he's been doing this for close to 30 years, I think you can assume that he knows what he's doing.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: TheStruggler on April 25, 2018, 06:26:32 AM
Yes, I would be grateful if you don't patronize me with that passive aggressive tone. Thanks.

Anyway, what you say is not entirely wrong. However it could've been delivered better then a sudden perspective switch at a key moment for the sake of perspective switch.

While reading Hyperion it was the same fashion, the story was separated between 7 different characters. Each time the perspective switched to a different point of time and place enriching the story and helping for the "ow, that's why" moment.

Here was sudden switch for the sake of making the incentive in the reader for the "what next".  I was not presented with something that would move my perspective or feel for the story,  I have nothing against switching away from Guts and Co. but for what I saw it was not something that can compare to the long year wait and frankly it gave me strong Deja Vu.

It would've been super cool to see what Rickert was up to, I am quite interested to see what Miura has set for him, it would've felt more rewarding. To quote Guts "I am not interested in pissing contest between monsters." plus at that time we are clearly shown his motives and the fact that he is basically unstoppable.
It's not about the switching, it's about what would be the reward when we switch to a different perspective. Clearly we  learned nothing new. Griffith is expanding his kingdom.
The chapter was boring. 
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Aazealh on April 25, 2018, 06:42:11 AM
Yes, I would be grateful if you don't patronize me with that passive aggressive tone. Thanks.

I'll patronize you if I see fit to do so. Which is the case here. You're not entitled to have your hot takes treated as well thought-out, reasoned essays.

Anyway, what you say is not entirely wrong. However it could've been delivered better then a sudden perspective switch at a key moment for the sake of perspective switch.

I think your opinion is entirely motivated by your anger at not getting what you wanted right away. The truth is that this perspective switch is fine (even if we all wanted to see what happened with Guts & Casca), and there's absolutely no chance it was just done "for the sake of it". Asserting otherwise makes you look immature. I guarantee you that this will be a non-issue once the episodes are collected in a volume.

I was not presented with something that would move my perspective or feel for the story,  I have nothing against switching away from Guts and Co. but for what I saw it was not something that can compare to the long year wait and frankly it gave me strong Deja Vu.

*A few episodes later* "Whoa, what a huge development! Who could have expected that to happen! :isidro:"
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Eluvei on April 25, 2018, 09:30:14 AM
Thought the switch was perfect. Disturbing imagery right off the bat and a mostly silent war scene after we were left with Casca's scream is brilliant.

the trolls (who are tied like pets)

I hadn't noticed that. This episode rules.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Urosh on April 25, 2018, 09:54:09 AM
I still picture Casca's scream echoing trough the forest... Man, what a bummer. But we get to see an epic battle and a change in perspective will be good on us readers and will help further the story.

I love the attention Miura gives to all the antics a warrior society like this might have. I think it's safe to assume Griffith is more interested in what's lurking in the bushes. Also I couldn't help but notice the "change" in Sonia, showing her with this jaded look. I might also be misinterpreting it but it would be nice to see it as her character developement, in accepting her role first and foremost as one of Griffith's soldiers.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Iluvatar on April 25, 2018, 10:16:48 AM
Kinda saw this coming.  Part of me thought that Miura would switch over to Griffith after the reunion. I just didn't expect it to be this early.

Seems like we won't be seeing Guts and crew for a while.

I agree with Aazealh. Switching the focus to Griffith creates suspense, and I'm interested to see what has happened after the blast of the astral world.  I just hope that it doesn't take Miura too long.   
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Sancho on April 25, 2018, 10:49:24 AM
Uhm... i wonder if the trolls and those giants have the same instinct as the apostles to submit before the members of the God Hand, just like Ganishka trembled upon seeing Griffith. Are they evil creatures just like the apostles, that is do they have "evil power" within them? That would explain why the giant king seems afraid of facing Griffith.
I remember in the Qliphot while Slan was torturing Guts the trolls didn't dare to approach them but just stood there watching, and later they and the ogres obeyed her command to fight the Skull Knight, so this apply at least for the trolls.
I'm very curious about the giant king's reaction to Griffith, what will Griffith do if the former would bow and submit to him? Even with Griffith's influence it seems hardly possible that those creatures could be tamed to not hurt humans, unlike the apostles which still retain a bit of their old humanity.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Aazealh on April 25, 2018, 11:05:57 AM
I hadn't noticed that. This episode rules.

Haha, yeah and one of them's eating a big old chicken leg too. The episode is chock full of amazing visual details like that. Like the giants' armors and weapons, which many have already commented on. From the human skin banners to the falcon-emblem flail or the ship armor, down to the designs of the shields that they've collected. Another interesting detail I've noticed is we see two humans knights wearing Locus' cross on their helmets. Not sure if that's supposed to have a specific meaning or if it's just becoming a common design in Falconia's armies.

I agree with Aazealh. Switching the focus to Griffith creates suspense, and I'm interested to see what has happened after the blast of the astral world.  I just hope that it doesn't take Miura too long.

I don't think it will take 10 episodes, like when we followed Rickert's arrival to and departure from Falconia. Although, that being said, it instantly became one of my all-time favorite parts of the series, so I'm up for more of the same.

Uhm... i wonder if the trolls and those giants have the same instinct as the apostles to submit before the members of the God Hand, just like Ganishka trembled upon seeing Griffith. Are they evil creatures just like the apostles, that is do they have "evil power" within them? That would explain why the giant king seems afraid of facing Griffith.
I remember in the Qliphot while Slan was torturing Guts the trolls didn't dare to approach them but just stood there watching, and later they and the ogres obeyed her command to fight the Skull Knight, so this apply at least for the trolls.
I'm very curious about the giant king's reaction to Griffith, what will Griffith do if the former would bow and submit to him? Even with Griffith's influence it seems hardly possible that those creatures could be tamed to not hurt humans, unlike the apostles which still retain a bit of their old humanity.

This is a more complicated question than it seems. The evil power that the God Hand and apostles use is entirely human in nature as far as we know. That means in theory random astral creatures, even if they're savage and barbaric, shouldn't be compelled to marvel at Griffith like apostles are. However there are a few elements that complicate the situation. The first one is that minor critters like trolls tend to follow a higher power, and members of the God Hand command truly formidable power. As a reminder, in the Qliphoth Slan didn't just order the ogres around, she literally created them at will to occupy the Skull Knight.

A second element is that "astral creatures" is a super vague term. There are tons of very different astral beings, with different alignments and from different levels of existence. And their nature and origins are likely to vary as well. We know that some undead human spirits wander the astral world, for example. They're the specters that harass Guts every night. There are also other malignant spirits, like Incubi, whose nature isn't completely clear.

However we know the concept of karma exists within Berserk. Among other things it is what decides whether souls go to hell (the Vortex) or not. So one of the possibilities I've considered is that maybe there exists a form of reincarnation in the Berserk universe. I mean that in the Buddhist sense, not to be confused with Femto's incarnation in volume 21. Maybe some of the bad souls wander for a while in the astral world and then take new forms, fitting of their past behavior. Like that of a troll. One of Slan's lines in volume 26 kind of hints at that possibility: "Here, near the realm of the dead, is the womb of darkness where loathed souls/spirits form their astral bodies."
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Sir Schraffl on April 25, 2018, 12:15:30 PM
Its a little hard not to be upset about the switch but I guess it's not that bad and the current events are interesting as well. Im curious to find out what will come out of this skirmish and if its really just about griffith expanding his territory or there will be some deeper agenda.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: jackson_hurley on April 25, 2018, 12:24:10 PM
Another interesting detail I've noticed is we see two humans knights wearing Locus' cross on their helmets. Not sure if that's supposed to have a specific meaning or if it's just becoming a common design in Falconia's armies.


I did not noticed that! Might be the generals now have a division of their own or something like that. Or some soldiers associates with some apostle, thus them making helmet or armour similar to their leader. Either way, very interesting.

However we know the concept of karma exists within Berserk. Among other things it is what decides whether souls go to hell (the Vortex) or not. So one of the possibilities I've considered is that maybe there exists a form of reincarnation in the Berserk universe. I mean that in the Buddhist sense, not to be confused with Femto's incarnation in volume 21. Maybe some of the bad souls wander for a while in the astral world and then take new forms, fitting of their past behavior. Like that of a troll. One of Slan's lines in volume 26 kind of hints at that possibility: "Here, near the realm of the dead, is the womb of darkness where loathed souls/spirits form their astral bodies."

Well that's another interesting thing to bring to the table. I've never really thought about that but you got me curious now. With time we might learn more if thats the case or not.

This is one of the many reasons I like to hang around here. So full of imput or nice ideas that are brought up. I'm not good in trying to speculate so I enjoy a lot what is said here instead. It helps me to better understand the story even though I've read it a lot of times. Again, thanx you for existing Skullknight and crew!  :ubik:
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Sareth on April 25, 2018, 02:03:43 PM
The magazine is finally back in stock on CDJapan
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: ApostleBob on April 25, 2018, 04:18:33 PM
I've now made a few additions to my Recurring Apostle Rogues Gallery as of this recent episode. Miura has started reusing a few designs from the Ganishka battle and the Eclipse. I love how each apostle is individually unique and how each was once human and has a tragic backstory of their own. Amazing designs.

Apostle Rogues Gallery
https://imgur.com/a/ZAp8p (https://imgur.com/a/ZAp8p)
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: MrFlibble on April 25, 2018, 08:50:00 PM
What concerns me is the consequence of the transition, if Miura switched to Griffith's POV, then that may mean he's shown all he needs to show when it comes to Casca's healing, which means, at this time, what we've been presented with may be as far as their relationship goes.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Aazealh on April 25, 2018, 09:05:09 PM
What concerns me is the consequence of the transition, if Miura switched to Griffith's POV, then that may mean he's shown all he needs to show when it comes to Casca's healing, which means, at this time, what we've been presented with may be as far as their relationship goes.

I'm pretty sure Casca's healing will still be on the agenda when we switch back to their side...
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Truder on April 25, 2018, 10:11:40 PM
I wonder if were going to see any "flow of time" shenanigans. Like is a year going to pass on the island when we switch back to Guts perspective? I feel like thats to be expected, but I hope we switch back at the exact same moment that we left off.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: NCHaskew on April 25, 2018, 10:13:01 PM
I'm pretty sure Casca's healing will still be on the agenda when we switch back to their side...

Gotta agree there. While I don't think we'll see the moment immediately following her scream (except in a quick flashback), I think at most, when it cuts back to Guts' perspective, some time will have passed and he's nervous about approaching her again.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Mangetsu on April 25, 2018, 10:18:20 PM
I wonder if were going to see any "flow of time" shenanigans. Like is a year going to pass on the island when we switch back to Guts perspective? I feel like thats to be expected, but I hope we switch back at the exact same moment that we left off.

I think thats exactly why the switch makes so much sense. You show what Griffith is up to now, go back on the island and once your back on the mainland Miura can display the consequences of everything that we will see in the upcoming episodes.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Cyrus Jong on April 26, 2018, 01:09:20 AM
I don't know, I think it might just be because she's using telepathy.

Maybe, but we've seen her communicate telepathically in the past, and she's always maintained that chipper demeanor of hers (https://i.imgur.com/O7M1siI.jpg). The only time we've ever seen Sonia look serious was in episode 299, and that clearly due to her annoyance than anything.

What concerns me is the consequence of the transition, if Miura switched to Griffith's POV, then that may mean he's shown all he needs to show when it comes to Casca's healing, which means, at this time, what we've been presented with may be as far as their relationship goes.

Oh come on. You think this is going to be Casca for the rest of the manga? (https://youtu.be/Wq-wlaUta4A?t=29) Those last pages in e355 made it abundantly clear her healing, and the mending of bridges between her and Guts, still have a long ways to go.

I wonder if were going to see any "flow of time" shenanigans. Like is a year going to pass on the island when we switch back to Guts perspective? I feel like thats to be expected, but I hope we switch back at the exact same moment that we left off.

Other way around. It would be closer to say as little as a few days will pass on Elfhelm, whereas years could potentially go by everywhere else. Regardless, it does give Miura the freedom to allow two plots to unfold concurrently but over different lengths of time. I personally expect a day or so at most to pass by when we return to the Guts camp.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Aazealh on April 26, 2018, 05:22:45 AM
I wonder if were going to see any "flow of time" shenanigans. Like is a year going to pass on the island when we switch back to Guts perspective? I feel like thats to be expected, but I hope we switch back at the exact same moment that we left off.

Cyrus already said so, but the "flow of time" thing works the other way around. Besides, from a narrative perspective it'd be pretty extreme to skip so far ahead.

Maybe, but we've seen her communicate telepathically in the past, and she's always maintained that chipper demeanor of hers (https://i.imgur.com/O7M1siI.jpg). The only time we've ever seen Sonia look serious was in episode 299, and that clearly due to her annoyance than anything.

Yeah I'm aware, I just find it strange that Miura wouldn't elaborate if he meant to show her dissatisfaction with Griffith. That single panel isn't much to go on. We'll see how it goes in the next few episodes.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Skeleton on April 26, 2018, 06:41:28 AM
Man, welcome back to the mainland! I think I got too used to Elfhelm. I had forgotten how brutal it can get. Those skin banners bothered me. Getting turned into one of the Sea God’s tentacles doesn’t seem so bad now, eh?  :ganishka:

Something I love about this episode (and the manga as a whole) is the juxtaposition between the more natural appearances/natures of the evil creatures of Fantasia and those of demonkind. They probably didn’t pay it any mind, but I wonder what those giants thought when these surreal/Lovecraftian apostles started coming at them. Dragons must seem painfully banal by comparison.

I like the heart (flower?) design on Sonia’s armor too. And Griffith’s looking like a total badass, as usual. A part of me wishes he’d change up his strategy though, but if it ain’t broke don’t fix it, I guess.

I’m really excited to see what happens next. I can only imagine if Griffith and his army aren’t headed to the bakiraka then they’re going somewhere, or doing something, that’s equally awesome.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Aazealh on April 26, 2018, 07:25:47 AM
Something I love about this episode (and the manga as a whole) is the juxtaposition between the more natural appearances/natures of the evil creatures of Fantasia and those of demonkind. They probably didn’t pay it any mind, but I wonder what those giants thought when these surreal/Lovecraftian apostles started coming at them. Dragons must seem painfully banal by comparison.

Void's words to Griffith during the Eclipse ring truer than ever. Using evil power to take their destiny in their own hands.

And Griffith’s looking like a total badass, as usual. A part of me wishes he’d change up his strategy though, but if it ain’t broke don’t fix it, I guess.

Haha, yeah he kind of just always goes straight to the leader and cuts him down as soon as he can. Maximizing efficiency I guess.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: DANGERDOOOOM on April 26, 2018, 11:42:15 AM
Well we have some returning apostles and a few new ones. I need to update my rogues gallery, but here's what I noticed right away. I apologize for the list of links.


There are quite a few returning apostles from the 'Unleash Evil' battle against the Ganishka spawn. -


Good eye. Very cool to see Miura keeping his creations in canon and not just drawing apostles for dramatic effect and forgetting about them.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Fancypantaloons on April 26, 2018, 06:04:03 PM
I've now made a few additions to my Recurring Apostle Rogues Gallery as of this recent episode. Miura has started reusing a few designs from the Ganishka battle and the Eclipse. I love how each apostle is individually unique and how each was once human and has a tragic backstory of their own. Amazing designs.

Apostle Rogues Gallery
https://imgur.com/a/ZAp8p (https://imgur.com/a/ZAp8p)

This is quite awesome, thanks for sharing!
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Archer1215 on April 26, 2018, 06:53:36 PM
Does anyone have any thoughts about what the context of this battle is? They most likely aren't defending Falconia from these giants, as the Wing Stones should be able to keep these monsters at bay. It could be a scouting expedition, but the battle seems much too organized and planned out for this to be a simple run-in with these creatures. My own thoughts were that this could perhaps be part of a larger campaign to retake Midland territory from the monsters of Fantasia. That way, Griffith could actually have his kingdom before his coronation.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Aazealh on April 26, 2018, 07:20:25 PM
My own thoughts were that this could perhaps be part of a larger campaign to retake Midland territory from the monsters of Fantasia. That way, Griffith could actually have his kingdom before his coronation.

That scenario seems quite unlikely to me for a variety of reasons. I don't think Griffith intends to "retake" Midland or anything else. Midland doesn't exist anymore. I would also say that Falconia itself is enough of a kingdom as it is, and that Griffith isn't waiting on having a certain amount of square kilometers under his rule before he's OK with getting a crown. Similarly, I don't think Griffith's (or the God Hand's, or the Idea of Evil's) plans are merely to conquer a certain amount of land.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Archer1215 on April 26, 2018, 08:18:33 PM
That scenario seems quite unlikely to me for a variety of reasons. I don't think Griffith intends to "retake" Midland or anything else. Midland doesn't exist anymore. I would also say that Falconia itself is enough of a kingdom as it is, and that Griffith isn't waiting on having a certain amount of square kilometers under his rule before he's OK with getting a crown. Similarly, I don't think Griffith's (or the God Hand's, or the Idea of Evil's) plans are merely to conquer a certain amount of land.

I'd say it would be more about acquiring legitimacy than fulfilling some big part in the God Hand's plan. That's why he is still marrying Charlotte for her claim and didn't just take the throne as soon as Falconia appeared and there was no place else for his subjects to go. He is still trying to do things traditionally and legitimately because the appeal of the public is a big part of what the God Hand are planning.

On that note, I would contest you on the idea that the kingdom of Midland doesn't exist anymore. Sure, it may not exist as it was before, and may have been swallowed up by Fantasia along with most of human civilization. But the idea of Midland still exists. That was why Griffith went out of his way to save so many Midland nobles and citizens in the first place. Rescuing Charlotte, saving the Midland nobles in Vrittanis, sending that dream to the children in Wyndham to save them from Ganishka's second transformation... all of this was to gain legitimacy as the savior of Midland. Charlotte herself even claims that the Band of the Falcon is now the official army of Midland, which led the charge during the war against the Kushan. That's also why he is still marrying Charlotte, for her claim to the throne of Midland, to foster a sense of legitimacy to his rule. He isn't becoming King of Falconia, he is becoming King of Midland.

On the topic of Falconia being the extent of his new kingdom, I highly doubt that. Gaiseric's lost city of Midland wasn't the extent of his empire, it was his glorious, capital city. I feel that's the same thing Falconia is meant to be. It is the heart and pride of Griffith's kingdom, but it isn't meant to be the extent of it.

As for why Griffith or the God Hand would care about conquering a certain amount of land, it would probably be for the same principle as marrying Charlotte. To give his rule a sense of legitimacy by actually having all or most of Midland under his wing, as well as to give hope to the people of Falconia that the situation of the world could be fought against and triumphed over, which the God Hand could make use of to further influence them for their future plans.

Of course, this is just one idea of why this battle is taking place. It could be something as simple as a scouting expedition. But I think the fact that this battle is even taking place at all is enough to suggest that Griffith's goals lie beyond Falconia. Maybe retaking Midland is only another step, and from there Griffith could begin conquering other countries that are suffering from Fantasia's effects, bringing even more humans under his influence.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Aazealh on April 26, 2018, 09:48:22 PM
I'd say it would be more about acquiring legitimacy than fulfilling some big part in the God Hand's plan. That's why he is still marrying Charlotte for her claim and didn't just take the throne as soon as Falconia appeared and there was no place else for his subjects to go. He is still trying to do things traditionally and legitimately because the appeal of the public is a big part of what the God Hand are planning.

I find your argumentation quite puzzling. It sounds ludicrous to me to say Griffith "is trying to do things traditionally" or that he "didn't just take the throne". Like, what? People are living in a giant futuristic city littered with Falcon imagery and Griffith rules over it like a god-king. He commands monsters. People come to watch him bring souls back from the dead at funerals. I think he's got plenty of legitimacy. Let me quote a line from Locus in episode 335, about the divine right of kingship: "the throne is given by the holy hand of God. So a random person is not allowed to covet it." That's what's going on here. The idea that marrying Charlotte is a big deal to solidify Griffith's position is simply laughable. It feels more an item on his checklist of things to have.

On that note, I would contest you on the idea that the kingdom of Midland doesn't exist anymore. Sure, it may not exist as it was before, and may have been swallowed up by Fantasia along with most of human civilization. But the idea of Midland still exists. That was why Griffith went out of his way to save so many Midland nobles and citizens in the first place. Rescuing Charlotte, saving the Midland nobles in Vrittanis, sending that dream to the children in Wyndham to save them from Ganishka's second transformation... all of this was to gain legitimacy as the savior of Midland. Charlotte herself even claims that the Band of the Falcon is now the official army of Midland, which led the charge during the war against the Kushan. That's also why he is still marrying Charlotte, for her claim to the throne of Midland, to foster a sense of legitimacy to his rule. He isn't becoming King of Falconia, he is becoming King of Midland.

Hahaha, you're really presuming a lot of things here. I'd say it's pretty factual that Midland doesn't exist anymore. Neither does Tudor or the Kushan empire. The armies fighting the Jötunn in this episode aren't Midland's armies. They're Falconia's armies. Not sure what "the idea of Midland" is even supposed to mean. As for the conflict with Ganishka... It was rigged from the beginning and had one key objective: the advent of Fantasia. Griffith saved people... so he'd have people to rule.

I feel like you're viewing Falconia in a paradigm that doesn't exist anymore. It reminds me of Locus and Mule's talk from episode 291. While Mule talks about politics, Locus replies: "This kind of trifle affairs that goes on in this world, it is meaningless already. Soon the morning will come. The true sun will illuminate the world." And of course it's exactly what happened. Falconia is not just populated by former Midland inhabitants, it has Kushans and likely people from other countries as well. It's mankind's last bastion. You see Griffith as a man who merely wants to rule an old country while he's a supernatural entity who has brought forth a new world and created his own place to rule in the process. And his goals as a member of the God Hand most-certainly extend beyond just "being king" of some place.

As for why Griffith or the God Hand would care about conquering a certain amount of land, it would probably be for the same principle as marrying Charlotte. To give his rule a sense of legitimacy by actually having all or most of Midland under his wing, as well as to give hope to the people of Falconia that the situation of the world could be fought against and triumphed over, which the God Hand could make use of to further influence them for their future plans.

That's right, the God Hand is all about giving people hope that better days are ahead! And these super powerful archdemons wouldn't want people to view them as illegitimate for not having enough agrarian land... (I am being sarcastic)
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Archer1215 on April 26, 2018, 11:28:30 PM
I find your argumentation quite puzzling. It sounds ludicrous to me to say Griffith "is trying to do things traditionally" or that he "didn't just take the throne". Like, what? People are living in a giant futuristic city littered with Falcon imagery and Griffith rules over it like a god-king. He commands monsters. People come to watch him bring souls back from the dead at funerals. I think he's got plenty of legitimacy. Let me quote a line from Locus in episode 335, about the divine right of kingship: "the throne is given by the holy hand of God. So a random person is not allowed to covet it." That's what's going on here. The idea that marrying Charlotte is a big deal to solidify Griffith's position is simply laughable. It feels more an item on his checklist of things to have.

Yeah, and that's the point. He could have taken the throne whenever he wanted to and very few would complain. But he is still doing things legitimately. He is marrying Charlotte for her claim. He is having a coronation ceremony. The reason he is even bringing back these souls from the dead to have a final visit with their loved ones is for PR. That's what all of this is. It's PR. He doesn't want to simply take the throne and be done with it. He wants to keep putting on a show and keep the public in acclaim of him. Part of that is being a borderline religious figure associated with the Holy See. Part of that is being a physical god who leads an army of demons and can perform miracles. Part of that is being the Hero of Midland who had saved the country from both Chuder and the Kushan Empire. And a part of that is becoming king through legitimate means rather than simply taking the power for himself. That's why he is even still marrying Charlotte in the first place. Taking back the territory of Midland that had been lost to Fantasia before becoming king? In this scenario, that would be PR as well, and from there a springboard for whatever his next move is.

Falconia is not just populated by former Midland inhabitants, it has Kushans and likely people from other countries as well. It's mankind's last bastion. You see Griffith as a man who merely wants to rule an old country while he's a supernatural entity who has brought forth a new world and created his own place to rule in the process. And his goals as a member of the God Hand most-certainly extend beyond just "being king" of some place.

He obviously has loftier ambitions than ruling Midland. Which is another part of what I'm saying that you don't seem to understand. I'm not suggesting that the God Hand's motivation is to retake Midland. Their goal clearly involves influencing what's left of humanity in some way. The reclamation of Midland and other foreign nations from the creatures of Fantasia is a part of that. It gives the people of Falconia a unifying purpose and enemy through which they can be manipulated. And any peoples rescued and nations reclaimed would be assimilated into Griffith's kingdom (or empire at this point). So it would be better to say that he wouldn't be restoring Midland to its former glory, but assuming kingship of Midland as the start of something brand new. And by the end, maybe he has what is left of humanity under his wing and all those who had refused to bend to him destroyed. The endgame is all of humanity under the God Hand's influence, and the creation of a new world order with themselves in control of everything.

That's right, the God Hand is all about giving people hope that better days are ahead! And these super powerful archdemons wouldn't want people to view them as illegitimate for not having enough agrarian land... (I am being sarcastic)

Well, like I said, the idea is to feed off of this "hope" (it would be better to call it a "sense of purpose" actually, maybe it was a poor choice of words on my part) to influence them. As in they would view the reclamation of Midland territory as motivation to do the same for the rest of the world. And of course, all of the territory they "free" from Fantasia would be assimilated into Griffith's "kingdom." So it isn't like they would want more "agrarian land" for the purpose of having land. They would want more humans to influence and territory to influence them from.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Faded on April 27, 2018, 02:56:14 AM
Archer, my theory is that the reason Griffith is still on the warpath is that he and the god hand have to exterminate all astral creatures / spirit trees. As explained previously in the series after the burning of the spirit tree where Schierke lived, such places are "spiritual parasites" that siphon energy off the world tree. Hypothetically if Griffith wipes out enough of these parasites the world tree can further blossom and fully fuse the astral layers, perhaps allowing the other god hand members to manifest themselves further....or something else we don't know yet.


I also have to side with Aaz on the topic of borders mattering etc. If you fully understood the scope of what happened during the astral blast you would understand that the geo-political makeup of the world is of little importance anymore. You're either with the White Hawk, or you're against him.


Side note:

How fucking cool would it be to see Guts lead an army of astral monsters against Griffiths army of God Hand apostles? I know that's a bit cheesy and over the top but man, what a series of two-page spreads that would make.  :ubik:

Who knows, maybe the next time we check in with Rickert he's invented some kind of steam-punk style mechanical suite that's bad ass enough he can square off with Apostles? :ganishka:

Lets focus on the fascinating speculation, not something lame like Griffith trying to legitimize midland or something boring as hell like that. What is this, 1998? The golden age is over. Time to embrace the future, Archer.  :puck:
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Archer1215 on April 27, 2018, 03:11:10 AM
Lets focus on the fascinating speculation, not something lame like Griffith trying to legitimize midland or something boring as hell like that. What is this, 1998? The golden age is over. Time to embrace the future, Archer.  :puck:

Like I said, it goes beyond restoring Midland to its former glory. The God Hand want to influence humanity, and I believe that giving them a greater purpose in reclaiming the world and a greater enemy in Fantasia ties into that. As far as the God Hand wanting to destroy more of the Spirit Trees and wipe out astral beings and magic users that aren’t affiliated with their faction, then I could definitely see both of those things being bigger steps in their plan or secondary objectives. But to me, it seems as though their ultimate goal involves shaping and controlling the future of the human race. Rebuilding human civilization in their own image to suit their own ends doesn’t sound like much of a stretch to me.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Aazealh on April 27, 2018, 06:34:21 AM
Yeah, and that's the point. He could have taken the throne whenever he wanted to and very few would complain.

Griffith is already effectively ruling Falconia, a city-state magically created in his image. The idea that there is a "throne" to "take" by marrying Charlotte is a pretty big misrepresentation of the situation.

Part of that is being a borderline religious figure associated with the Holy See.

He is not a "borderline" religious figure but a literal one.

Chuder

It's "Tudor", not "Chuder". Dark Horse messed up that translation, like many others.

He obviously has loftier ambitions than ruling Midland. Which is another part of what I'm saying that you don't seem to understand. I'm not suggesting that the God Hand's motivation is to retake Midland. Their goal clearly involves influencing what's left of humanity in some way. The reclamation of Midland and other foreign nations from the creatures of Fantasia is a part of that. It gives the people of Falconia a unifying purpose and enemy through which they can be manipulated. And any peoples rescued and nations reclaimed would be assimilated into Griffith's kingdom (or empire at this point).

Strange logic. As far as we know, most of what's left of humanity is holed up in Falconia. Already united, already under Griffith's rule, already with "an enemy" that Falconia's armies are currently fighting in this very episode. There may be stragglers or pockets of survivors, but talk of "reclaiming nations" makes me think you underestimate how big of a change to the world Fantasia was.

So it would be better to say that he wouldn't be restoring Midland to its former glory, but assuming kingship of Midland as the start of something brand new.

Oh so now he's creating a new thing. But then why would it still be called Midland? The core of our argument is that I say Midland doesn't exist anymore and therefore isn't going to be "retaken". You say otherwise, but I'm not seeing any solid evidence to back it up. If Griffith were to formally establish an empire, my guess is it would be called "Falconium" or the "Holy Falcon Empire" or something similar and not "Midland".

The endgame is all of humanity under the God Hand's influence, and the creation of a new world order with themselves in control of everything.

I first theorized this about 10 years ago.

Well, like I said, the idea is to feed off of this "hope" (it would be better to call it a "sense of purpose" actually, maybe it was a poor choice of words on my part) to influence them. As in they would view the reclamation of Midland territory as motivation to do the same for the rest of the world. And of course, all of the territory they "free" from Fantasia would be assimilated into Griffith's "kingdom." So it isn't like they would want more "agrarian land" for the purpose of having land. They would want more humans to influence and territory to influence them from.

Yes, I would say it was a poor choice of words. And I also don't think this supports your assertion about Midland. That Falconia might be on a mission to exterminate all non-human creatures in the world is something I also happened to theorize many many years ago, but that doesn't necessarily mean the re-establishment of former nations. For one thing that's because there just aren't enough people left to populate them as far as we know. Another reason is that barring the construction of giant walls or the creation of apostle garrisons in every village, there would be no way to protect "liberated" outposts from raids.

How fucking cool would it be to see Guts lead an army of astral monsters against Griffiths army of God Hand apostles? I know that's a bit cheesy and over the top but man, what a series of two-page spreads that would make.  :ubik:

Well he's already got the merrows on his side. :iva:
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: saaken on April 27, 2018, 07:21:48 AM
Archer, my theory is that the reason Griffith is still on the warpath is that he and the god hand have to exterminate all astral creatures / spirit trees. As explained previously in the series after the burning of the spirit tree where Schierke lived, such places are "spiritual parasites" that siphon energy off the world tree. Hypothetically if Griffith wipes out enough of these parasites the world tree can further blossom and fully fuse the astral layers, perhaps allowing the other god hand members to manifest themselves further....or something else we don't know yet.


I also have to side with Aaz on the topic of borders mattering etc. If you fully understood the scope of what happened during the astral blast you would understand that the geo-political makeup of the world is of little importance anymore. You're either with the White Hawk, or you're against him.


Side note:

How fucking cool would it be to see Guts lead an army of astral monsters against Griffiths army of God Hand apostles? I know that's a bit cheesy and over the top but man, what a series of two-page spreads that would make.  :ubik:

Who knows, maybe the next time we check in with Rickert he's invented some kind of steam-punk style mechanical suite that's bad ass enough he can square off with Apostles? :ganishka:

Lets focus on the fascinating speculation, not something lame like Griffith trying to legitimize midland or something boring as hell like that. What is this, 1998? The golden age is over. Time to embrace the future, Archer.  :puck:



your ideas are interesting .But are you sure all astral creatures can be killed? i'm not so sure, maybe others can keep re spawning, these are ethereal creatures after all. Continuously flooded by humans subconscious.

And if as you said the objective is to let the spirit tree merge entirely with the real world, doesn't that mean that all creatures , even the ones that exist in the deepest layers will be allowed to roam around in the physical world.
I think that is one of the objectives of the Idea of evil, to allow the spiritual world to take place entirely in the physical one? Maybe so that griffith can subject some of them.
I also think that midland doesn't matter anymore, it's about humanity, leaded by the griffith against the astral creatures and magic users  and of course the people who know the truth about griffith.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Aazealh on April 27, 2018, 08:30:27 AM
But are you sure all astral creatures can be killed? i'm not so sure, maybe others can keep re spawning, these are ethereal creatures after all. Continuously flooded by humans subconscious.

This is a good point and one I've also been thinking about. We don't know exactly how astral creatures are created. I speculated about it on the previous page of this thread, but we don't have any hard certainties. So can they truly be exterminated once and for all, or would more of them appear over time? Hard to say, but I think part of the God Hand's ultimate goal might involve the disruption of their creation process (which I don't believe is just a matter of being present in people's subconscious).

And if as you said the objective is to let the spirit tree merge entirely with the real world, doesn't that mean that all creatures , even the ones that exist in the deepest layers will be allowed to roam around in the physical world.

It's another one of those things that's hard to evaluate for now: the extent to which the worlds have been merged and can merge. Personally I don't think that the world could really be "flattened" in a way where you'd find one of the beings Schierke summons next to a deer in the woods. There might be more "bridges" or connections though.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Bohdan on April 27, 2018, 12:26:50 PM
If I understand it correctly, God Hand and the force behind it can and want to control only humankind, yes? If so, it probably means that they would rather get rid off opposing forces (such as astral creatures) but that's something that has been said already. What I am curious about is if Guts is going to receive a quest from a higher being to oppose God Hand in a manner that he wouldn't decline it. I can't see Guts and Casca leaving Elfhelm on their own just because they want it (and why would they want that exactly?), there has to be another, external thing to influence and guide them to a new thing. This might be a good place to introduce the in-depth agenda of God Hand from the other, opposing side. I am not so sure if we are going to see God Hand now with Griffith episodes although I can see them being mentioned. What if other God Hand members do the same thing as Griffith in other parts of the world (for efficiency)?
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: NCHaskew on April 27, 2018, 01:46:51 PM
Personally I don't think that the world could really be "flattened" in a way where you'd find one of the beings Schierke summons next to a deer in the woods. There might be more "bridges" or connections though.

Yeah, I also don't think the worlds could merge that completely--although how horrifying would it be to see Griffith go toe-to-toe with the Four Kings  :isidro: Although that may be a little too shonen.

Also, as far as this whole squabble over the reclamation of Midland and Griffith's plans and all that, I think it's just as simple as Griffith has been destined to rule the world since he came into possession of the egg of the king. Or because he was destined, it came into his possession--however you want to view it. At this point, he effectively does rule the world, but we don't know how many other pockets of survivors there are throughout the world. There could even be several places like Elfhelm where Griffith's influence has yet to really take effect.

So I think Griffith's military campaigns are less a reconquista of Midland's territory, and more the final conquest of the rest of the world. And/or Griffith's victory lap since, if these giants are any indication, the battles up ahead are less a battle and more an extermination.  :ganishka:
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Aazealh on April 27, 2018, 02:10:25 PM
If I understand it correctly, God Hand and the force behind it can and want to control only humankind, yes?

Well that's just a theory. We don't actually know what their goal is. But yeah, the idea I originally put forth (long ago) was that there would end up being a conflict between mankind and the rest of the world. The Idea of Evil, the God Hand and the apostles are all created using human-based magic (evil power from "bad" human souls). There's a fundamental difference between their nature and that of elemental magic like what Schierke uses. Given what we know of the Idea of Evil's creation from episode 83 and from the nature of the God Hand, it makes sense to assume they intend to create a world where they control everything. And to achieve that it stands to reason they'd need to eradicate any potential opposing force. That also works with what we're told about Griffith and the fact Flora was a bigger danger to him than any army.

What I am curious about is if Guts is going to receive a quest from a higher being to oppose God Hand in a manner that he wouldn't decline it.  I can't see Guts and Casca leaving Elfhelm on their own just because they want it (and why would they want that exactly?), there has to be another, external thing to influence and guide them to a new thing.

Haha, Guts isn't a game character, so I don't expect him to "receive a quest" or anything like that. However I do think they will be forced on that path by external forces. Do note though that they already have incentives to leave Elfhelm and confront Griffith. Time flows differently in Elfhelm and staying there isn't recommended, and their son's fate is directly tied to that of Griffith.

This might be a good place to introduce the in-depth agenda of God Hand from the other, opposing side. I am not so sure if we are going to see God Hand now with Griffith episodes although I can see them being mentioned. What if other God Hand members do the same thing as Griffith in other parts of the world (for efficiency)?

It certainly would be cool to know more about what the other members of the God Hand are doing. Their role going forward is still very nebulous. Who knows, maybe the ominous shadow Sonia mentions is really... Conrad?!  :isidro: :iva:

how horrifying would it be to see Griffith go toe-to-toe with the Four Kings  :isidro: Although that may be a little too shonen.

Yeahhhh, I don't see that happening. Not Berserk's style and would just be lame. I would however like to see Schierke calling down that spell and see a member of the God Hand just "take it" without being too perturbed. "That's the best you got?" :daiba:

I think it's just as simple as Griffith has been destined to rule the world since he came into possession of the egg of the king. Or because he was destined, it came into his possession--however you want to view it.

Yeah, if you want to be really precise, Griffith was destined to do all this from the moment he was born because his entire being was crafted for this express purpose by the Idea of Evil. The crimson beherit was just a means for him to become Femto when the moment came, nothing more. And his role as part of the God Hand, to be their vanguard in the corporeal world, had also been decided and planned for long before his birth.

So I think Griffith's military campaigns are less a reconquista of Midland's territory, and more the final conquest of the rest of the world. And/or Griffith's victory lap since, if these giants are any indication, the battles up ahead are less a battle and more an extermination.

Agreed, although let's not forget that we don't know yet what's actually going on here. There could be a specific goal to that sortie other than conquest or extermination, for example to obtain, rescue, capture or destroy something.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Faded on April 27, 2018, 03:17:35 PM
Saaken,

Regarding astral creatures "re-spawning" I'm as stumped as you are.

Is there another force at work that we haven't yet discovered, that are conjuring these creatures from the deeper layers ? Maybe that's the strange shadow that Sonia sensed lurking in the woods behind the Giant King?

I'm very excited to see the next few episodes, no matter the POV.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: saaken on April 27, 2018, 04:39:10 PM
Saakan,

Regarding astral creatures "re-spawning" I'm as stumped as you are.

Is there another force we haven't met yet at work that we haven't yet discovered, that are conjuring these creatures from the deeper layers ? Maybe that's the strange shadow that Sonia sensed lurking in the woods behind the Giant King?

I'm very excited to see the next few episodes, no matter the POV.

yes there is still a lot to discover.  Maybe it is some force fueled by something that even the idea of evil and the god hand can't control.

Maybe it's part of the plan and a risk that had to be taken in order for griffith to have his own kingdom, the world is in the age of darkness anyway isn't it? and griffith is following the laws of causality so maybe he clearly knows what he is doing even if the force can't be controlled.
As mentioned by flora , what lies in the deepest layers is something that surpasses human imagination so i don't know how it could materialize in the real world. Maybe it will represent an even greater foe for griffith and his army.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Squiddot on April 27, 2018, 04:48:20 PM
As mentioned by flora , what lies in the deepest layers is something that surpasses human imagination so i don't know how it could materialize in the real world. Maybe it will represent an even greater foe for griffith and his army.

General consensus is this being is whatever surviving remnants of the "Idea of Evil" Miura has decided to keep from the lost episode.

But all this talk of the God Hand's end goal got me thinking... We've seen the Berserk world evolve from a state of small pockets of confined magic and low level spiritual entities to a much deeper level of more powerful spirits and monsters as part of the God Hand's plan. As we know, the deepest level of the astral world is the abyss, which also appears to be associated with the God Hand. So maybe the ultimate goal is to continue to grind these two worlds together, reaching deeper and deeper levels, until the abyss of souls displaces physical reality itself, swallowing everything. Though i'll admit something of this level would probably require a second astral explosion so the odds are slim, at least with the rules we're currently shown.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: saaken on April 27, 2018, 05:05:37 PM
General consensus is this being is whatever surviving remnants of the "Idea of Evil" Miura has decided to keep from the lost episode.

But all this talk of the God Hand's end goal got me thinking... We've seen the Berserk world evolve from a state of small pockets of confined magic and low level spiritual entities to a much deeper level of more powerful spirits and monsters as part of the God Hand's plan. As we know, the deepest level of the astral world is the abyss, which also appears to be associated with the God Hand. So maybe the ultimate goal is to continue to grind these two worlds together, reaching deeper and deeper levels, until the abyss of souls displaces physical reality itself, swallowing everything. Though i'll admit something of this level would probably require a second astral explosion so the odds are slim, at least with the rules we're currently shown.

it's a possibility, but how about humans, will they be able to survive in a completely distorted reality?  in a world that goes beyond human imagination?  Griffith wanted a kingdom to rule upon,can it be possible in a transcendental world?

with your hypothesis,maybe the god hand would want the worlds merging together to the extent where humans can still feel that they're on earth. With the unpleasantness it produces, that is more and more powerful astral creatures to deal with .
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Aazealh on April 27, 2018, 05:33:19 PM
Is there another force we haven't met yet at work that we haven't yet discovered, that are conjuring these creatures from the deeper layers ? Maybe that's the strange shadow that Sonia sensed lurking in the woods behind the Giant King?

That seems pretty unlikely to me. When the Blast of the Astral World happened we saw astral creatures just instantly appear in the world (sometimes alongside a fantastical scenary). That's what the merging of the worlds refers to. Not only do I doubt that whatever's hiding in the bushes is summoning giants from somewhere else, but I don't think giants come from "deeper layers" to begin with.

General consensus is this being is whatever surviving remnants of the "Idea of Evil" Miura has decided to keep from the lost episode.

For the record, Saaken's quote of Flora is inaccurate, but yes, the Abyss is where the Idea of Evil dwells, and Flora does pretty clearly allude to it. And as a reminder the Idea of Evil also appears in episode 82.

So maybe the ultimate goal is to continue to grind these two worlds together, reaching deeper and deeper levels, until the abyss of souls displaces physical reality itself, swallowing everything. Though i'll admit something of this level would probably require a second astral explosion so the odds are slim, at least with the rules we're currently shown.

It's just the Abyss, not Abyss of Souls. Also, I honestly don't see how "flattening" the worlds so that everything ends up in the great oceans of souls (of which the Vortex of the Souls is a part) would work or make sense.

it's a possibility, but how about humans, will they be able to survive in a completely distorted reality?

Not with what Squiddot proposes, obviously.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Faded on April 27, 2018, 07:37:25 PM
That seems pretty unlikely to me. When the Blast of the Astral World happened we saw astral creatures just instantly appear in the world (sometimes alongside a fantastical scenary). That's what the merging of the worlds refers to. Not only do I doubt that whatever's hiding in the bushes is summoning giants from somewhere else, but I don't think giants come from "deeper layers" to begin with.

Touché. Maybe its the parasitical spirit trees that are spawning these astral creatures, like you say a lot of the creatures we saw just "appear" seemed to come from deep within forests in the panels of the manga. That's purely an anecdotal observation on my part, but maybe we're onto something here.



Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Walter on April 27, 2018, 07:54:06 PM
Touché. Maybe its the parasitical spirit trees that are spawning these astral creatures,

I think you've got a fundamental misunderstanding of how those trees function. They inhibit the layer-spanning nature of the World Tree. From Ged (ep 345): "They play the role of preventing the branches from extending into "this world" by absorbing the power from the "World Tree".
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Aazealh on April 27, 2018, 08:01:39 PM
Maybe its the parasitical spirit trees that are spawning these astral creatures, like you say a lot of the creatures we saw just "appear" seemed to come from deep within forests in the panels of the manga. That's purely an anecdotal observation on my part, but maybe we're onto something here.

I don't think so either. The trees (most of which have been destroyed) had a pretty specific purpose and it wasn't at all related to "spawning" astral creatures. They were like a safety mechanism, syphoning power off of the World Spiral Tree and therefore preventing it from linking the astral and corporeal worlds together too strongly. They were also guarded by powerful magic users, like Flora.

That aside, there's no mystery as to why we saw astral creatures appear suddenly with the advent of Fantasia. It's because the corporeal world and the astral world were merged. These creatures were already roaming the land... in the astral world. So humans couldn't see them and vice versa. That changed with Fantasia.

As for how astral beings are created, we don't know. I've speculated a bit about it in this thread on the previous page, if you're interested, but the short version is we don't know. The only place where we've seen astral creatures being spawned so far is the Qliphoth, and that was under very special circumstances.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Faded on April 27, 2018, 10:44:23 PM
I think you've got a fundamental misunderstanding of how those trees function. They inhibit the layer-spanning nature of the World Tree. From Ged (ep 345): "They play the role of preventing the branches from extending into "this world" by absorbing the power from the "World Tree".

Yeah I readily admit that I didn't exactly know how those trees work. That's why I was using words like "maybe" . I was just throwing something against the wall there. Thanks for sharing your wisdom though, I will eventually read the entire manga enough times to be able to pull direct quotes with ease haha. I'm only part way through my 3rd re-read and it shows in my posts.  :farnese:

Also, I'll check out those posts of yours Aaz. I'm fascinated by the whole concept of the world tree and the astral layers. Do you guys have  a specific podcast you could recommend where you all just spitball about how the Berserk universe works post astral-blast? I could listen to  that kind of speculation for hours.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Walter on April 28, 2018, 01:14:36 AM
As for how astral beings are created, we don't know. I've speculated a bit about it in this thread on the previous page, if you're interested, but the short version is we don't know. The only place where we've seen astral creatures being spawned so far is the Qliphoth, and that was under very special circumstances.

Indeed we don't, but I don't anticipate a complicated explanation about their origins. Given what we know, it could very well be that such creatures have just as much a stake in this world as humans do, and always have. It's just that for 1,000 years (or more) they were shunted into another dimension that humans couldn't access. The world tree has brought everyone together again, as "nature" intended. And now after a millennia of preparation, the God Hand have established a means by which to have humanity dominate the planet (killing anything nonhuman). And as for what happens when these creatures die, perhaps they die, and that's it. But at that point, I'm layering on doubt with doubt, since the afterlife is yet another vaguely defined part of the Berserk world.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Aazealh on April 28, 2018, 05:52:53 AM
Indeed we don't, but I don't anticipate a complicated explanation about their origins. Given what we know, it could very well be that such creatures have just as much a stake in this world as humans do, and always have. It's just that for 1,000 years (or more) they were shunted into another dimension that humans couldn't access. The world tree has brought everyone together again, as "nature" intended.

Sure. Maybe we'll learn some more about their origins, maybe not. What's sure is that their existence and their current presence in the same world as humans don't need any explanation.

Anyway, for all the wild speculation in the thread, I feel like we haven't really talked about what that thing in the bushes might be. There's quite a large variety of beings to choose from, so what could it be? And is it allied with the Jötunn, is it coercing them, or is it just lying in wait for some reason?
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Griffith on April 28, 2018, 07:45:49 AM
we haven't really talked about what that thing in the bushes might be. There's quite a large variety of beings to choose from, so what could it be?

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d2/ab/13/d2ab13c064c0cb3aac505d28455b64e3.png)

 :ubik:

Probably something smaller and more specific to the giants, but this was my heart's first desire when you mentioned something ominous hiding in the bushes... Other than maybe Skull Knight. :ganishka: :SK: "Next time, Femto! NEEEEXT TIIIIME!!"

It would be interesting if the Dragons in Berserk were as intelligent and powerful as in other sources or if they're more like beasts or too small in numbers to matter. Otherwise, they could serve as serious opposition to Griffith and perhaps some are even aligned, or at least civil, with Elves. Imagine Guts riding a dragon into battle! :guts:

Fun to think about, and another way to interpret this segment: the opposition to Griffith isn't just Guts and some inhabitants of a far away island, and seemingly the only way to counter his overwhelmingly powerful forces would be with equally powerful opposition. At least I hope so because I prefer all out fantastical warfare to exploiting an Achilles' heel, and why not both? :carcus:
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: saaken on April 28, 2018, 09:13:47 AM

Probably something smaller and more specific to the giants, but this was my heart's first desire when you mentioned something ominous hiding in the bushes... Other than maybe Skull Knight. :ganishka: :SK: "Next time, Femto! NEEEEXT TIIIIME!!"

It would be interesting if the Dragons in Berserk were as intelligent and powerful as in other sources or if they're more like beasts or too small in numbers to matter. Otherwise, they could serve as serious opposition to Griffith and perhaps some are even aligned, or at least civil, with Elves. Imagine Guts riding a dragon into battle! :guts:

Fun to think about, and another way to interpret this segment: the opposition to Griffith isn't just Guts and some inhabitants of a far away island, and seemingly the only way to counter his overwhelmingly powerful forces would be with equally powerful opposition. At least I hope so because I prefer all out fantastical warfare to exploiting an Achilles' heel, and why not both? :carcus:

Achilles's heel could be the demon's child spirit still residing in griffith maybe?

dragons are fascinating creatures, it can be interesting to see how they can be exploited in berserk universe.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Aazealh on April 28, 2018, 11:00:40 AM
Probably something smaller and more specific to the giants, but this was my heart's first desire when you mentioned something ominous hiding in the bushes...

Haha, that would be cool, especially if Grunbeld decides to go head to head with it! :zodd: But given that the giants' top dog is wearing an armor made out of dragon bones, I don't know...

Fun to think about, and another way to interpret this segment: the opposition to Griffith isn't just Guts and some inhabitants of a far away island, and seemingly the only way to counter his overwhelmingly powerful forces would be with equally powerful opposition. At least I hope so because I prefer all out fantastical warfare to exploiting an Achilles' heel, and why not both? :carcus:

Why not both indeed. I don't think we can do without the Achilles' heel to be honest (and one that Guts alone will be able to exploit), but I also don't believe Miura would deprive us of a last, enormous battle by the time the series ends.

Achilles's heel could be the demon's child spirit still residing in griffith maybe?

Yes, that's the idea.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Faded on April 28, 2018, 04:38:28 PM
I mean its been quite awhile since we have had a Skull Knight sighting. And the presence he emits can be quite ominous at the best of times.

Maybe SK's waiting for Griffith to run ahead alone and strike at the leadership like he always does in these battles, before intervening and trying to get a piece of him while out of Femto form and tied up in another battle?

I wonder what Mule and Sonia's reaction would be to SK and Griffith squaring off haha.  :carcus: Sonia might be able to pick up on some of SK's thoughts by being in his presence and maybe get a better idea about who her glorious leader really is... :femto:




Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Archer1215 on April 28, 2018, 05:31:58 PM
I mean its been quite awhile since we have had a Skull Knight sighting. And the presence he emits can be quite ominous at the best of times.

Maybe SK's waiting for Griffith to run ahead alone and strike at the leadership like he always does in these battles, before intervening and trying to get a piece of him while out of Femto form and tied up in another battle?
 :femto:

I doubt it. He usually only interferes during the Temporal Junction Points. And if he were to interfere again at this point in the story, he would pretty much have to fail again by necessity. Which would be a bit redundant at this point, given it wasn’t that long ago that he failed so miserably against Femto before. I think he’s going back to the drawing board for the time being until he can come up with a better plan of action and interfere at the next Temporal Junction Point (whatever event that may be).
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Faded on April 28, 2018, 05:38:46 PM
I doubt it. He usually only interferes during the Temporal Junction Points. And if he were to interfere again at this point in the story, he would pretty much have to fail again by necessity. Which would be a bit redundant at this point, given it wasn’t that long ago that he failed so miserably against Femto before. I think he’s going back to the drawing board for the time being until he can come up with a better plan of action and interfere at the next Temporal Junction Point.

Yeah I highly doubt Skull Knight will dash out of the bushes and strike down Griffith right there, hahaha. But what if the tussle gets serious enough that Griffith has to transform into Femto form in front of all his human subordinates? What if Skull Knight was all like "Curse you Femto, the damned Wings of Darkness!!"  And Sonia & company were all like wait a minute...who?!

And like I said, when was the last time we even saw SK? He's been at the drawing board for awhile and maybe his plan is to create a bit of disillusionment in Griffiths troops, specifically Sonia because of her special powers.

I'm totally off on a tangent here but hopefully I'm making some sort of sense haha.



Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Archer1215 on April 28, 2018, 05:54:19 PM
Yeah I highly doubt Skull Knight will dash out of the bushes and strike down Griffith right there, hahaha. But what if the tussle gets serious enough that Griffith has to transform into Femto form in front of all his human subordinates? What if Skull Knight was all like "Curse you Femto, the damned Wings of Darkness!!"  And Sonia & company were all like wait a minute...who?!

Seems like a strange way for Femto to be revealed to his army. I think the odds are pretty slim to none honestly. I think this next sequence of episodes will be more about reinforcing Falconia’s belief in Griffith than undermining it. At least on the macro-level. I expect we will definitely be given more glimpses of Femto’s true nature relatively soon, and I also think this would be a good time to begin planting seeds of doubt in the minds of some of his more prominent followers.

Particularly Laban, who I predict will be given quite a bit of focus in the coming episodes as his suspicions of Griffith and Falconia grow stronger (and are perhaps even confirmed). Maybe if he digs too deep it could even spell the end of poor Laban’s story as he is paid a visit and silenced for the potentially damning information that he carries.  :rakshas:

If we get to experience Griffith’s wedding ceremony, then I expect we will delve into Griffith and Charlotte’s relationship more privately as well. Maybe she begins to have suspicions of her own on her wedding night. Or maybe the fact that she only really knew him superficially and never knew of his dark side as a human means she will continue to be oblivious to his true nature. But I would put my money on some interesting developments between the two after their wedding.  :slan:

Long story short, it just doesn’t feel like the right time for Falconia to learn the truth about Griffith. If they ever do at all (which they probably will). And what if they learned the truth about Griffith yet still chose to follow him? I think that could be an interesting avenue to explore.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Faded on April 28, 2018, 05:59:28 PM
Seems like a strange way for Femto to be revealed to his army. I think the odds are pretty slim to none honestly. I think this next sequence of episodes will be more about reinforcing Falconia’s belief in Griffith than undermining it. At least on the macro-level. I expect we will definitely be given more glimpses of Femto’s true nature relatively soon, and I also think this would be a good time to begin planting seeds of doubt in the minds of some of his more prominent followers.

Long story short, it just doesn’t feel like the right time for Falconia to learn the truth about Griffith. If they ever do at all (which they probably will). And what if they learned the truth about Griffith yet still chose to follow him? I think that could be an interesting avenue to explore.

There is a lot to unpack in your post but don't you kind of contradict yourself here?  :???:
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: MrFlibble on April 28, 2018, 11:08:29 PM
Astral creatures are created by the mass subconsciousness of humanity, it's explained in 24-26. I assume, from what we've seen of the ogres and trolls, and told directly by Slan, that astral beings are formed of dead spirits, it's not a stretch considering spiritual beings such as apostles and the God Hand are literaly formed from the vortex. We even see the spirits of hell forming Femto's body in the IOE episode. Perhaps there is a domain similar to the abyss and nexus where light sided magical creatures are formed of positive spirits.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Walter on April 28, 2018, 11:45:14 PM
Astral creatures are created by the mass subconsciousness of humanity, it's explained in 24-26.


I don't think the manga has explicitly answered the question of astral creatures' origins. The basic argument over the years has been whether human dreams and imaginations are (were?) the authors of these creatures, or merely a window to the world they inhabit. I'm in the latter camp, and if you'll bear with me I can explain why.

All this talk boils down to basically three scenes, and I'll review each. In Vol 24, over dinner at Flora's, there is quite a bit of talk about how humans can perceive astral creatures, but nothing about their origins. Schierke talks a lot about how our perception of them is thanks to a tether in our collective subconscious minds to their existence (the kind of tether that can't simply be undone by an individual's "disbelief."). Over the years, people have recognized that such creatures existed, and legends were told that have reinforced their existence in our common subconsciousness. In vol 25 when they were approaching Qliphoth, Schierke wasn't saying that dreams and imagination are the creation engine for those creatures, instead dreams are a window for us to perceive them (this is literally how it's shown -- a sleeping child peering through a window and seeing nightmare creatures). It's possible this is because the dreaming mind can override the corporeal limitations. They're "inhabitants of human dreams" because that's where they can be perceived as having form, but that doesn't mean dreams created them. Finally, in vol 34 when Fantasia hits, we get a little bit of text about how these creatures who heretofore "only existed in people's imaginations," are now walking around. Lots of talk about perception, but none about creation.

I find a number of problems with the proposition that the astral world is merely the receptacle of the human imagination. Ged has already said: "We're going back to the Chaos of the ancient times where this world was mixed with the astral world..." So what we have now is the natural state of the world, not a new dynamic that has been littered by human dreams run amok. But also, I don't think painting it all with one brush is going to work. The astral world as we know it so far is a dense stew swimming with a wide variety of beings, not all of which jive with the concept that human whims created them. There are specters for example, which are very clearly not created by the human mind. And of course, elves are tied to the elements, just like the individual elementals, down to the 4 Kings which govern the elements.

Meanwhile, the God Hand and their ilk are completely related to humans, and that's portrayed negatively. So I don't anticipate a human-centric creation story on the horizon. It seems more like a human-centric worldview is what created the problem, and during this interim period the God Hand have tipped the balance of power in favor of humans artificially, in a world that would otherwise have creatures on even footing.

Quote
it's not a stretch considering spiritual beings such as apostles and the God Hand are literaly formed from the vortex

Apostles are not "spiritual beings." They are humans whose souls have been tainted by the evil power in the Vortex of souls.

Quote
Perhaps there is a domain similar to the abyss and nexus where light sided magical creatures are formed of positive spirits.

Astral creatures are fundamentally different from the apostles and the God Hand, and the nexus isn't a real thing, just a convenient term we came up with.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Squiddot on April 29, 2018, 12:20:52 PM
Anyway, for all the wild speculation in the thread, I feel like we haven't really talked about what that thing in the bushes might be. There's quite a large variety of beings to choose from, so what could it be? And is it allied with the Jötunn, is it coercing them, or is it just lying in wait for some reason?

I personally, had been holding off because I was nervous about diving too deep into speculation based on one tentative translation. With such little info to work with currently, every word used to describe the mystery-thing counts. Would an 'ominous od' imply something fundamentally evil like an apostle? Because Sonia has definitely encountered enough of them to recognise that when she sees it. I'd have to go back and check if trolls and ogres and such were also noted by Schierke as having an evil od. I tend to quickly fall into the assumption that "natural" fantasy creatures were kind of neutral, like wild animals. The way it's described as just being "in the bushes" is also fairly flat, human language that doesn't really evoke too much majesty or mystery.

My spur of the moment theory: Due to Eflhelm's time dilation, more than a few nights have passed since Rickert escaped and Rakshas has either been exiled for his actions, sent on long range reconnaissance or simply refused to show his face around out of shame. But now he has a reason to make his presence known to Griffith again.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Aazealh on April 29, 2018, 03:50:35 PM
I personally, had been holding off because I was nervous about diving too deep into speculation based on one tentative translation. With such little info to work with currently, every word used to describe the mystery-thing counts. Would an 'ominous od' imply something fundamentally evil like an apostle?

I haven't seen the original Japanese text, however the Korean translation doesn't mention Od. Sonia simply talks about a "large and ominous shadow", like I said several days ago.

Episode title is "Jötunn (1)", with the kanji meaning "giants" and the furigana indicating the name. It's a Norse mythology reference.

There's not much text in the episode, but Sonia chastizes Mule for not being careful enough, then she speaks to Griffith through telepathy. She tells him where the Giant King is (east of the battlefield), that there's a clear path to him, and more importantly to be careful because she senses a large and ominous shadow that is hidden in the bushes behind the soldiers.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: batistuta on April 30, 2018, 08:10:53 AM
hey guys, 357 will be released in may? or a hiatus is going to happen?
thanks
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Aazealh on April 30, 2018, 08:42:58 AM
hey guys, 357 will be released in may? or a hiatus is going to happen?
thanks

In the absence of any specific indication, I am hopeful that episode 357 will be released in May.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Scorpio on May 01, 2018, 04:32:07 AM
Like many, I was a little bummed by the shift in focus- I really wanted to see the immediate aftermath of Casca's scream. When we eventually come back to Guts' I'm sure it'll be after that moment, but hopefully we'll still get to see it in a small flashback or similar. I'm not too worried though, there will be a lot of time for that sort of drama going forward.

This episode was a treat visually, with lots of creative ideas and designs. I'm not sure what fantastical thing is lying in wait behind the leader, but it would have to have quite the hefty magical punch to actually give Griffith pause. Is this an actual challenge for Griffith? To inform us more about the world? Character development for Mule? I'm excited to see where this goes and in the meantime we at least have an interesting spectacle.

I also wonder if we'll be seeing Rickert while we're on this side of the pond. I'm curious as to what he's up to as well as taking a peek at the Bakiraka homeland, though there's also a big part of me that wants a 'Rickert the Man' moment after a long gap (Infinite Space reference). We'll have to wait and see!
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Faded on May 01, 2018, 07:47:18 PM


I also wonder if we'll be seeing Rickert while we're on this side of the pond. I'm curious as to what he's up to as well as taking a peek at the Bakiraka homeland, though there's also a big part of me that wants a 'Rickert the Man' moment after a long gap (Infinite Space reference). We'll have to wait and see!

I am also wondering about Rickert. I wonder how much time will have elapsed before we check in with him again? It would be so cool to see a fully adult Rickert, and what kind of amazing inventions he's come up with since we last checked in. I speculated on a bad ass steam-punk style mechanical suite that would allow him to 1 v 1 apostles but that's perhaps a little over the top... anyone else have any ideas what the boy genius has created next? Maybe infused magic into some of his gadgets with aid from Daiba? So many possibilities!

Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Archer1215 on May 01, 2018, 08:45:48 PM
I speculated on a bad ass steam-punk style mechanical suite that would allow him to 1 v 1 apostles but that's perhaps a little over the top...

Just a bit lol.

I actually don’t know if we’ll see Rickert until after the timeskip. I would like for Rickert to have his own journey with his own party of companions (Erika, Silat, Daiba, etc.) going forward, parallel to Griffith/Falconia and Guts/Casca. Either we see him immediately after or during this next sequence of episodes, or it will be after Guts and the party leave Skellig, when a timeskip has already taken place. I think it could work either way.

Maybe we switch back to Rickert just long enough to establish the setting of the Bakiraka village where he will have a safe place to live for a few years, or maybe we follow his journey through Fantasia to get to the villlage, with him serving as another set of eyes for the state of the world after the blast. But I could also see Rickert’s story being put on ice for a while until the events in Elfhelm are wrapped up.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Khalamir on May 01, 2018, 10:07:05 PM
On the topic of Rickert, I think there's a good chance we'll jump to him for a couple of episodes after we're done with Griffith. Just to show Silat's reaction to Rickert's story, the Bakiraka village itself and how Rickert is getting along there. Then we'll go back to Elfhelm.

It would be so cool to see a fully adult Rickert, and what kind of amazing inventions he's come up with since we last checked in. I speculated on a bad ass steam-punk style mechanical suite that would allow him to 1 v 1 apostles but that's perhaps a little over the top... anyone else have any ideas what the boy genius has created next? Maybe infused magic into some of his gadgets with aid from Daiba? So many possibilities!


steam-powered stuff is going too far I think, but then again after the rocket launcher I don't really know what to expect out of him. I'm sure we'll get a bunch of more cool inventions from him. Guns are one possibility (although I think if guns were to ever be introduced, it would be by Falconia, and if anything Rickert would only improve on the design.)
I wonder what Erica will do, too. She's friendly with Daiba, so that opens the possibility for her to learn magic from him, but she also once said she wanted to become a Blacksmith herself. Maybe she'll learn from Daiba and try to apply some of what she learned to Smithing.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Walter on May 02, 2018, 12:20:34 AM
... anyone else have any ideas what the boy genius has created next? Maybe infused magic into some of his gadgets with aid from Daiba? So many possibilities!

:daiba: + :rickert: = A fission bomb using magical components  :magni:

Rickert has always seemed like a behind-the-scenes guy at heart, so I can continue seeing that role for him with the Bakiraka, outfitting them with unique weaponry, making them into a force even more deadly and unique. The fun will come in trying to convince them to use unconventional equipment, given that their martial arts seems quite entrenched in their culture.  There is such cool potential with the Bakiraka in the arrangement that Miura has created for them, they're definitely one of the highlights for me when I consider the future.

Either we see him immediately after or during this next sequence of episodes, or it will be after Guts and the party leave Skellig, when a timeskip has already taken place. I think it could work either way.

There are many possibilities. I don't think there's much to gain by trying to pigeonhole it. This recent POV switch made that abundantly clear.

On the topic of Rickert, I think there's a good chance we'll jump to him for a couple of episodes after we're done with Griffith. Just to show Silat's reaction to Rickert's story, the Bakiraka village itself and how Rickert is getting along there. Then we'll go back to Elfhelm.

Not sure I understand the logic. Just because there's plenty of story left to tell with Rickert and co. doesn't mean that now is the time for it. And just like we cut mid-sequence with Guts and Casca, Miura can always do that again in the future if he feels like it's the time to share Rickert's story.

Quote
I wonder what Erica will do, too. She's friendly with Daiba, so that opens the possibility for her to learn magic from him, but she also once said she wanted to become a Blacksmith herself. Maybe she'll learn from Daiba and try to apply some of what she learned to Smithing.

Daiba's certainly a knowledgeable guy, but his skills aren't limited to magic. Remember, he's the guy who spent his life making the "artificial beherit" for Ganishka. It will be interesting to see what he's able to do with that knowledge. I can't imagine that particular knowledge base will just be used for exposition purposes.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Faded on May 03, 2018, 03:12:34 PM
:daiba: + :rickert: = A fission bomb using magical components  :magni:



Only one issue, they don't have radio technology for a remote detonation...

...Guts goes fully berserk, runs the bomb like a NFL wide receiver right into the heart of Falconia before spiking a touchdown and sacrificing himself 'Bruce Willis Armageddon' style, destroying the world tree while taking Griffith & all the bad guys with him thus saving humanity.


That would make for one heck of a light novel, anyways.  :troll:





 
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Walter on May 03, 2018, 04:27:12 PM
Only one issue, they don't have radio technology for a remote detonation...

True but that's probably not the only issue though  :ganishka:
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Faded on May 03, 2018, 05:35:46 PM
Back on the topic of the actual episode (and apologies if someone has already asked this question) but is it possible that the giants have some sort of connection to Slan? I ask this because they seem to have an affinity for the trolls which were definitely the children of Slan. Ogres were also of her creation, perhaps she's also let loose these giants as well? Interesting that at least certain specific astral creatures are actual creations of the God Hand.

I know it would be ground breaking for us to discover that there is in-fighting between the God Hand members but then again we don't know their actual end game so we can't rule it out either. I mean I could see Griffith attempting to transcend the other members of the god hand and establish himself as the true lord of the universe. That would hypothetically involve him taking out the other God Hands astral minions IMO.

That's a lot to digest and I have strong doubts the story moves in that direction but it's interesting to think about at the very least. I'm just stumped as to what we're going to get out of this whole astral conquest by Griffith (other than another, inevitable confrontation with Guts). Like you guys said in the podcast eventually something has to happen because Griffith simply mowing down enemies is going to get pretty dull after awhile.



Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Walter on May 03, 2018, 05:58:03 PM
trolls which were definitely the children of Slan. Ogres were also of her creation,

No, I think you might have missed something about that scene. Those were simply creatures of the Qliphoth, which is of course where dark creatures of similar od gravitate. Slan appeared there because she sensed Guts, and she could manifest those creatures because of her power as a member of the God Hand. That doesn't mean that Slan is the creator of all trolls and ogres or that she has a particular affinity with the Qliphoth other than of course her own evil power.


Quote
I know it would be ground breaking for us to discover that there is in-fighting between the God Hand members but then again we don't know their actual end game so we can't rule it out either.

Because the God Hand are the executors of the Idea of Evil, it nearly assures that such things won't happen. Even if it might be interesting to see.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Faded on May 03, 2018, 11:06:59 PM
No, I think you might have missed something about that scene. Those were simply creatures of the Qliphoth, which is of course where dark creatures of similar od gravitate. Slan appeared there because she sensed Guts, and she could manifest those creatures because of her power as a member of the God Hand. That doesn't mean that Slan is the creator of all trolls and ogres or that she has a particular affinity with the Qliphoth other than of course her own evil power.


Hold on let me grab my volume. I'm not trying to correct you here but this is the reasoning behind my thinking:

From Darkhorse volume 26:

Slan: "I've missed you, boy. Its been so long. No...I've sensed you at times. In the cave...at the tower...throughout countless nights. I felt all your passions. And as the path unfolded, I knew you'd come to my domain, Qliphoth." /cut to Schierke

So, not only does she refer to Qliphoth as her domain (Darkhorse translation alert), she says she knew Guts would somehow end up there.

Skull knight then shows up, and some more interesting dialogue between Slan and SK:

SK: "Whore princess of the Uterine sea. So you were the only one summoned?

Slan: "Summoned, you say? I came here on my own. I wished to see this boy. You do realize, don't you? This is what the emergence of the 5th means. The worlds are already starting to overlap. I have no idea about the others, they likely melted into their preferred sephira(?), and are floating, formless."


The last bit here by Slan really strikes me as the God hand all taking up residence in their own "environments". Conrad was already shown hanging out with plague-ridden rats as another example. If anything Slan does at least hint that the God hand members are taking the first steps towards transitioning out of the astral plane and into the real world.

Here's a few more interesting quotes from Qliphoth:

Slan says this after Skull Knight decides enough talking and pulls out his sword: "This place may as well be my womb, rage and fury, bastard fetuses of darkness!!"

*Suddenly a billion Orgres and Trolls show up seemingly at Slans command*

Slan, right before Guts gives her the cannon point blank: "This is the uterus of darkness, the vicinity of the netherworld where abominable spirits take ethereal form. It can spew forth any number of these children, like worms."

This one is really interesting to me, as it kind of gives you a hint towards how certain nasty astral creatures are formed. Areas "within the vicinity of the netherworld" Also, to me this signals that again Qliphoth is related to Slan because it is the uterus of darkness and she is the princess of the uterine sea...sticking with the reproductive theme at least and she does refer to them as "children" in a quote above.

Now, Darkhorse may have butchered the translations and I have the totally wrong idea in that case I concede. But I am genuinely curious on your thoughts about these quotes.

*edit*

Sorry, this is turning into a massive post but I feel like I need to get this all out before it slips my mind.

Upon further reflection and reading Qliphoth episodes again I think you're correct that she hasn't created all of the trolls and ogres and maybe they aren't actually her minions under direct control. But she definitely has a connection to what Qliphoth represents, if that makes sense.

Qliphoth represents rage and fear etc. Those are the kinds of things Slan likes, and according to her own words the other God Hand members melted into their "preferred" sephira, meaning she definitely came to Qliphoth because its her kinda place (and because she wants Guts bad).

I know during one of your guys podcasts (really old, perhaps the first or second one even) you and Aaz speculated on what the God Hand will do when they all reach the real world and someone suggested they all have their own little kingdoms or what ever. Qliphoth perhaps gives us a peek into what Slans "kingdom" might look like as well as the kinds of residents within? So awkwardly transitioning that to present day we could hypothetically be seeing Griffith encroaching on the edges of what might be another bigger, badder Qliphoth.

I guess you can say I'm incredibly stoked for the next episode, whether its Griffith related or not. I need to know what happens next so I can put this kind of bonkers speculation to rest!



Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Walter on May 03, 2018, 11:51:32 PM
From Darkhorse volume 26:

Slan: "I've missed you, boy. Its been so long. No...I've sensed you at times. In the cave...at the tower...throughout countless nights. I felt all your passions. And as the path unfolded, I knew you'd come to my domain, Qliphoth." /cut to Schierke

That is a straight-up bad translation. This came up recently, and two of our Japanese speaking users went back and forth on it before both concluded that Dark Horse is yet again full of shit.

http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=1770.msg249569#msg249569

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she says she knew Guts would somehow end up there.

Well yeah, because she can sense him. If anything all you've done is show that the Qliphoth isn't unique in that lineup (she refers to other times and places she sensed him).

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Here's a few more interesting quotes from Qliphoth:

Yeah man, I know all about this scene. We were here talking about this episode when it came out in 2003 (http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=1515.0)  :ganishka:

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Slan says this after Skull Knight decides enough talking and pulls out his sword: "This place may as well be my womb, rage and fury, bastard fetuses of darkness!!"

*Suddenly a billion Orgres and Trolls show up seemingly at Slans command*

Her ability to summon creatures here, in this particular place, which she describes as having a concentration of dark creatures, does not mean that she is the owner of this place. It means that she, as a powerful being who can wield evil power, can exploit its nature and amp its production at will. By appearing in (and ultimately exiting) the Qliphoth, she also sealed its fate to collapse, as SK tells us later. Not really the behavior of a proper landlord.

Besides, we've already seen what "Slan's domain" looks like twice. We see what looks like a glimpse of it when Joachim hallucinates in vol 18 (writhing bodies begin to meld), and we see it again in Vol 34, in the 2 page spread with Slan alongside pages where the other God Hand members are in domains with their affinity. Hers is a place with writhing naked bodies engaged in sex. So, look around the Qliphoth again, and squint your eyes at the DH translation. What is it about the Qliphoth in particular that makes you scream "definitely Slan's place" ?

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Also, to me this signals that again Qliphoth is related to Slan because it is the uterus of darkness and she is the princess of the uterine sea...sticking with the reproductive theme at least and she does refer to them as "children" in a quote above.

That's clever but you should know the full meaning of what SK is saying. The phrase is 胎海の娼姫 / Harawada no Shouki. It's a dense play on words and it's of course in Japanese. I'm not a native speaker myself, but I'll try and break down the meanings in it:

Intestines

The translation "Whore Princess of the Uterine Sea" overlooks the play on words Miura's doing. "Harawada" is a word Miura coined himself by combining harawata (intestines/organs) with wada (ancient word for the sea). So here, SK is making fun of the form she took -- gross intestines, despite her high stature on the bad guy food chain.

Princess/Courtesan

SK pairs the words "Whore" and "Princess" 娼姫, likely referring to her lusty appetite/personality while also mocking her stature as a God Hand, in the same way that Slan pokes fun at SK by calling him "your highness/king."

Amniotic Sea

This could be referring to a number of things. It could be SK poking fun at Slan's actual vagina being as big as the ocean (my preference), or the origin of the God Hand beginning at the Abyss (which by its nature has an ocean connotation), or Slan's ability to manifest creatures of darkness from her womb (which she refers to later on).

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Qliphoth represents rage and fear etc.

The Qliphoth is, as Schierke tells us, the astral world's domain of darkness. That's it. You're reading too much into what Slan says as she's torturing Guts, saying that his dark feelings are fitting for a dark place.

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Qliphoth represents rage and fear etc. Those are the kinds of things Slan likes

Actually, lust seems to be her forté, whether sex or otherwise — the kind of lust that embodies your whole being, the kind that drives you mad. It's likely what attracts her to Guts.

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Qliphoth perhaps gives us a peek into what Slans "kingdom" might look like as well as the kinds of residents within? So awkwardly transitioning that to present day we could hypothetically be seeing Griffith encroaching on the edges of what might be another bigger, badder Qliphoth.

Again, Qliphoth really doesn't resemble Slan at all, and we've seen what is probably her domain, so I simply don't agree. But to indulge this idea, it'd be amusing if the presence that Sonia sensed turned out to be the outskirts of another God Hand member's domain, and Griffith just tells them to steer clear of it without explanation.  :ubik: But really, I think people are reading too much into that one panel. It could be absolutely anything.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Faded on May 03, 2018, 11:55:58 PM
It's a bad translation. This came up recently, and two of our Japanese speaking users went back and forth on it before both concluded that Dark Horse is yet again full of shit.

http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=1770.msg249569#msg249569

Holy fuck. That's embarrassingly bad translation. I mean the episodes take on almost a completely different tone...wow.

You can see why newbies get mislead so easy, I'm glad you got me up to speed but damn I just wasted everyone's time with that wall of text haha.

I made a late edit, would like your thoughts on the modified theory if it really makes a difference at all. Probably not.

Back to the ridiculous Sonia speculation, I guess.   :ganishka:

*extremely late edit*

Due to me crawling out from beneath the rock I've been living under and getting a solid translation of that part of the series, I give up on the infighting between the god hand concept (for now  :griffnotevil:).  But I am still truly fascinated by the idea of interaction between Griffith and his demonic counterparts, what ever that entails. Griffith suddenly deciding these certain bad guys don't need to die and they can continue eating humans at their leisure would be quite unsettling for the Falconians, would it not? :ubik:

What I really want to see is the look in Sonia's eyes when she sees her beautiful icon transform into Femto and do something truly unspeakable. Is Sonia really about that life? And if she's not, what is she going to do about it? I can't wait to find out!  :slan:
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: no name on May 04, 2018, 12:53:24 PM
Digital magazine is out https://www.hakusensha-e.net/top?id=15718
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Walter on May 04, 2018, 02:23:06 PM
Digital magazine is out https://www.hakusensha-e.net/top?id=15718

Thanks! I don't think we've seen Miura's comment yet, but here it is:

(http://www.skullknight.net/images/miuracomment-356.png)
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Aazealh on May 04, 2018, 08:21:37 PM
Thanks! I don't think we've seen Miura's comment yet, but here it is:

(http://www.skullknight.net/images/miuracomment-356.png)

Translation, courtesy of Puella: "I've finished my manuscripts. Now I'll go watch Pacific Rim!!"
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Keratos on May 04, 2018, 09:25:10 PM
Translation, courtesy of Puella: "I've finished my manuscripts. Now I'll go watch Pacific Rim!!"
Sooo Miura has finished writing the next episode's script? Also Pacific Rim huh? I guess the shadow behind the bushes will be a Jaeger or something  :ganishka:
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Rhombaad on May 04, 2018, 10:35:33 PM
Translation, courtesy of Puella: "I've finished my manuscripts. Now I'll go watch Pacific Rim!!"

I hope he means the first one. :void:
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Faded on May 04, 2018, 11:15:17 PM
"Finished my manuscripts and watching pacific rim" sounds to me like there might *hopefully* be another episode on the way at the end of May. If one does get released, do you guys think this might be the last one until winter? I highly doubt he keeps this momentum rolling right through summer though I would love if it actually happened.

  Also Pacific Rim huh? I guess the shadow behind the bushes will be a Jaeger or something  :ganishka:

He must have read my stupid "Rickert invents a mech suite to fight apostles" idea and ran with it.  :ganishka:

Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Walter on May 05, 2018, 12:29:04 AM
Sooo Miura has finished writing the next episode's script?

At least the next one. There's still no reason to think it won't be coming at the end of the month.

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Also Pacific Rim huh? I guess the shadow behind the bushes will be a Jaeger or something  :ganishka:

It's no secret that Miura is a fan of Kaijū . Afterall, Gigantomakhia is his stab at that genre.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: buttonmasher on May 08, 2018, 02:04:44 AM
We've been waiting so long to get here that I've found myself unable to contribute anything to the dialogue.  I would like to say thank you again to everyone who makes SK.net possible as you've gotten me through the last 12 years or so waiting for this.  Berserk feels different now and I am excited to see what Miura does now that there's no more carrot giving me tunnel vision.  Still a lot of unanswered questions about Guts and Casca but I think the worst is behind us.  Off topic but just wanted to say thank you to everyone here!
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Walter on May 10, 2018, 10:35:23 AM
357 coming 5/25: http://www.younganimal.com/magazine/next.html
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Sareth on May 10, 2018, 11:22:41 AM
Fantastic.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: jackson_hurley on May 10, 2018, 11:49:19 AM
Wonderful news! Thx Walter.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Patrick on May 10, 2018, 05:42:16 PM
Thank you for the update, Walter.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Griffith on May 10, 2018, 08:35:24 PM
More from the Troll Giant King! Though perhaps not for long unless that ominous shadow can postpone his execution? :griffnotevil:

I'm interested to see just what and how much Miura is establishing here about Griffith's current geopolitical situation in Fantasia and how it'll play into things down the line. Are all these guys just more Ganishka-like tomato cans that can't actually pose a challenge, or could they collectively become a problem because, even if completely dwarfed by it, at least they aren't literally thrall to Griffith's power (hopefully, unless that's the point of all this =). My unofficial little interpretation of events is that the God Hand have raised the stakes for a much bigger, ultimate prize while opening themselves to at least some risk or challenge, but with the odds still calculated extremely in their favor.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Death May Die on May 10, 2018, 09:40:25 PM
Sweet! I'm ready from my next issue! Got my 2nd YA issue yesterday! All my roommates are looking at me weird and judging me behind my back, me... with my skimpy Japanese girl magazines. I say to them "this is where you will find the greatest story ever told! Between the short skirt Japanese school girls, and the random ads for gym equipment!" 
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: DirtiestM on May 10, 2018, 11:37:13 PM
357 coming 5/25: http://www.younganimal.com/magazine/next.html

What am I looking at, all I'm seeing is boobs... Kidding aside, this is awesome thanks walter!
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: MrFlibble on May 11, 2018, 10:53:30 AM
Great news, I have high hopes that the Giant Cheif is going to win this next fight.
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Jettatore on May 11, 2018, 04:36:34 PM
357 coming 5/25: http://www.younganimal.com/magazine/next.html

Thanks you for the greats news!  :ubik:
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: Fancypantaloons on May 11, 2018, 06:19:30 PM
Awesome news, I'm really happy about it!
Title: Re: Episode 356
Post by: jackson_hurley on May 28, 2018, 05:47:19 PM
Yeah! Just got ep356 part 1 in the mail today. The visuals on that format is very nice!