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Berserk => Current Episodes => Topic started by: Olivier Hague on June 26, 2003, 02:39:00 PM

Title: Episode 223
Post by: Olivier Hague on June 26, 2003, 02:39:00 PM
Schierke hurries to Flora's mansion, Guts asks Serpico and Isidro to stop her.
Guts and the Skull Knight fight the Apostles.
Zoddo and Grunbeld appear. Griffith ordered them to kill Flora. Guts is schocked to hear Grunbeld introducing themselves as the "Hawk Warriors".
It looks like Guts is pretty famous among the Apostles. They apparently recognize him from the Occultation, and Grunbeld, glad to meet the legend, challenges him.
In the mansion, Isidro tells Schierke to use magic against the fire, but she's far too upset for that. She then hears her master's voice, telling her to bring the armor to the Black Swordsman (the helmet looks like a skull).
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Kuroi-san on June 26, 2003, 02:46:15 PM
Holy shit, this is gonna be a good chapter.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Nosferatubeast on June 26, 2003, 03:27:38 PM
Are Skully and Zodd going to clash swords as well, or are they going to watch?  Also, how far is Guts from  Schieke(more importantly the armor)?  I wonder why Griffith fears Flora!
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Mage on June 26, 2003, 03:39:28 PM
Guts vs Grunbeld already :o I hope Guts was able to recooperate to some extent.

:o
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Uriel on June 26, 2003, 04:41:18 PM
So, we basically have to wait until 224 to see Guts and Grunbeld clash? I wonder why Griffith wanted to kill Flora...
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Clutch on June 26, 2003, 04:55:53 PM
Sweet mother of god. . .
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Dark Wanderer on June 26, 2003, 06:47:09 PM
Whoohoo! Some really exciting events is coming up!! :D. Can't wait to see the new chapter.. and Guts VS Grunbeld... Can't wait...!  ;D
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Majin Tenshi on June 26, 2003, 07:06:09 PM
Cannon vs. Cannon?  

Will the dragonslayer actualy live up to its name?  
I had figured we'd see Guts vs. Zodd.  Its not like Skully vs Zodd will be much of a fight.  
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: *Gyom* on June 26, 2003, 07:49:12 PM
Well... the apostles have told Grundbeld how incredible Guts is. So he wanna face the legend. From that, one may think that Grundbeld isn't an apostle since he wasnt at the Eclipse.
Now we'll see.
Guil
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Majin Tenshi on June 26, 2003, 08:06:34 PM
Perhaps all the apostles didn't go to the eclipse.  Grunbeld is supposedly from quite a ways away.  If this is the case, he might not have wanted to make such a journey.  
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Dark Wanderer on June 26, 2003, 08:09:28 PM
Cannon vs. Cannon?  

Will the dragonslayer actualy live up to its name?  
I had figured we'd see Guts vs. Zodd.  Its not like Skully vs Zodd will be much of a fight.  

How do you know that? We've only seen them fight once, and Skully just cut of his arms at that time, without finishing him off.

Will be interesting to see the cannon-thing, through...
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: korkor on June 26, 2003, 08:18:17 PM
i guess we know why floras house is on fire now  :P

i hope flora survived cause i think guts will need his spritual wound healed to be affective agaisnt Grunbeld ...

and is griff actuallly there?
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: The Perineum Falcon on June 26, 2003, 08:33:26 PM
and is griff actuallly there?

itd make sense for Griffith to be off conquering or ruling Midland. I dont think hed stop what hes doing to go witch hunting. from what ive read, he is absent.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: psymont on June 26, 2003, 08:54:56 PM
Well... the apostles have told Grundbeld how incredible Guts is. So he wanna face the legend. From that, one may think that Grundbeld isn't an apostle since he wasnt at the Eclipse.
Now we'll see.
Guil

zood didnt really go either did he? he kinda hung out side like a bouncer ...

as far as grunbeld being an apostle: some of griffith's posse are considered warriors of legend; its possible that they just popped into existance from the subconscious of peoples minds just like the trolls, right? i think ....
 :-\
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: roberto999 on June 26, 2003, 08:58:07 PM
I Knew that the chapter was out because the usual guy had it too ;D
http://homepage1.nifty.com/bluestone/berserk/animal/ya223.html (http://homepage1.nifty.com/bluestone/berserk/animal/ya223.html)


http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/urltrurl?url=http%3A%2F%2Fhomepage1.nifty.com%2Fbluestone%2Fberserk%2Fanimal%2Fya223.html&lp=ja_en&tt=url (http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/urltrurl?url=http%3A%2F%2Fhomepage1.nifty.com%2Fbluestone%2Fberserk%2Fanimal%2Fya223.html&lp=ja_en&tt=url)

however from the babelfish translation I noticed something : It seems that Guts did strike an apostle and Dragonslayer was repelled!??!
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Arker on June 26, 2003, 09:00:05 PM
GOOD GOD i just pissed myself i'm so stoaked!!! :o
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: SaiyajinNoOuji on June 26, 2003, 09:50:56 PM
I swear to you all that I will do my best to get these scans as quick as humanly possible....
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: theblakeman on June 26, 2003, 09:52:03 PM
All this is just as good...naye, better than sexual chocolate!
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Uriel on June 26, 2003, 10:07:51 PM
I swear to you all that I will do my best to get these scans as quick as humanly possible....
God bless you.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: SaiyajinNoOuji on June 26, 2003, 10:13:48 PM
however from the babelfish translation I noticed something : It seems that Guts did strike an apostle and Dragonslayer was repelled!??!

If that is true then things really look bleak... and with the whole armor thing I wonder if Guts will not accept the armor. I am SOOOO excited...  With the whole reasoning of why Griffith wants to kill Flora I think it has to do with the other God Hands... i believe they may have told him of her and Skully and about their actions in the past and since he is on the human plain of exsistance, he can do some damage and what not. That's my reasoning. ;D
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Kasirak on June 27, 2003, 12:33:20 AM
I have a feeling that he will accept the armor, although I really wish that he'd accept it, but rips off the face plate so he doesn't look like skull knight (he could use as excuse that it impairs his vision or something if he wants to be nice)  ;)

This chapter and the next one look quite interesting indeed.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Vampiric_Swordsman on June 27, 2003, 01:44:38 AM
I can't wait for the next chapter, i'm just worried about Guts's spiritual wound from slan, i hope he gets healed or something, and when he does we'll be in for one hell of a show.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: secilj on June 27, 2003, 02:56:48 AM
Looks like another good chapter for some explanation.

Hmmm, Griffith directly ordered his servants to kill Flora. I wonder why.
Is he scared of her? Isn't he all-mighty? I can't wait for the next 224.  :)
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Smith on June 27, 2003, 04:11:50 AM
Cannon vs. Cannon?  

 :o

Let see whose Cannon is more destructive! I m going to imagine what will happen if Guts fire his arm cannon at the same time as Grunbeld fires his dragonbreath at him!


I had figured we'd see Guts vs. Zodd.  


we have seen Guts vs Zodd not long before, so it is time to change new opponent. :)


Its not like Skully vs Zodd will be much of a fight.  

It should be Skully vs. the rest of the army

Btw, where is Locus, Rakasha and Irvine? Helping Griffith?

Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Mitsu_dunDee on June 27, 2003, 05:12:03 AM
We are to hope that the armor will not reveal as a "too-good-to-be-true" power-up....
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: trapped_soul on June 27, 2003, 08:37:33 AM
They apparently recognize him from the Occultation, and Grunbeld, glad to meet the legend, challenges him.
well, i'm already looking forward to that duel...

Quote
She then hears her master's voice, telling her to bring the armor to the Black Swordsman (the helmet looks like a skull).

heh, how interesting...

-TS
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Kasirak on June 27, 2003, 01:08:30 PM
I just thought of something, what are the chances that this new armor is actually skull knight's original armor when he was just Gaiseric? We just had a story of the armor, so the image we saw of his armor was just an estimate of what it could have looked like.

Since it seems that Guts and co seem to be following the same pattern that Skull knight and Flora had done, perhaps he is destined to stand up against Griffith and everyone and take back Midland like Gaiseric did so long ago. Then again, that doesn't explain why there was a huge sacrifice of people after Gaiseric came into power, but it would explain why there are only 4 "angels" in people's story since Gaiseric would have killed the hand of god that came to do what Griffith is trying to do.

Does that make any sense?
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Uriel on June 27, 2003, 01:59:45 PM
I'd say no. But when you compare the Gaiseric armour to what we have seen of Guts' new armour, the only thing that seems to be the same is the fact they both have a cape. Guts new armous is a lot more "sharp". Where as Gaiseric's had dragon heads and eagles on his.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: daniel3 on June 27, 2003, 02:08:58 PM
I just thought of something, what are the chances that this new armor is actually skull knight's original armor when he was just Gaiseric? We just had a story of the armor, so the image we saw of his armor was just an estimate of what it could have looked like.

Since it seems that Guts and co seem to be following the same pattern that Skull knight and Flora had done, perhaps he is destined to stand up against Griffith and everyone and take back Midland like Gaiseric did so long ago. Then again, that doesn't explain why there was a huge sacrifice of people after Gaiseric came into power, but it would explain why there are only 4 "angels" in people's story since Gaiseric would have killed the hand of god that came to do what Griffith is trying to do.

Does that make any sense?

SK evolved from his hatred of void (or something like that), so the parallel would be something along the lines of Guts being the equivalent of skull knight and griffith the equivalent of void. As you can see void is very much alive (or about as alive as a godhand can be :/). I also doubt that this is the same armor that skull knight had since my assumptions on the whereabouts of his armor is that he is currently still wearing it. Essentially skull knight fused with his armor somehow to become the being that he is today (only reason I can assume he gained his powers given that he is not an apostle and probably isn't a wizard like flora). Maybe that's the real danger he was thinking about when he saw flora making the armor for Guts. Remember that shadow magic can consume the user (or whatever the hell that little girl said).
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: *Gyom* on June 27, 2003, 02:12:47 PM
(only reason I can assume he gained his powers given that he is not an apostle and probably isn't a wizard like flora)
Beherit sword.
Guil
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Smith on June 27, 2003, 02:17:41 PM
Beherit sword.
Guil

And his lovely steed that can fly...  :)
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: daniel3 on June 27, 2003, 02:21:51 PM
Beherit sword.
Guil

I think the sword is a result, not a cause of his powers. Dunno where the hell he got the flying steed from though, maybe he pulled it out of another orifice of his body :P.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: *Gyom* on June 27, 2003, 02:23:43 PM
And his lovely steed that can fly...  :)
not necessary note : you're changing IDs even more than I do !
Guil...
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Smith on June 27, 2003, 02:27:33 PM
not necessary note : you're changing IDs even more than I do !
Guil...

No choice... some freaks keep changing my A.S in A.S.s. So i had to choose another name  :P

btw, where the heck did Skully got such a steed?



Note: A.S stand for Agent Smith, it is a short form of my original name
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Grifth on June 27, 2003, 02:54:46 PM
Guts whit a skull shaped helmet this is gonna rock as for grumbeld im betting this guy is hell strong not up there whit zod but i think he comes in second
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Nadiaska on June 27, 2003, 04:07:27 PM
Schierke hurries to Flora's mansion, Guts asks Serpico and Isidro to stop her.
Guts and the Skull Knight fight the Apostles.
Zoddo and Grunbeld appear. Griffith ordered them to kill Flora. Guts is schocked to hear Grunbeld introducing themselves as the "Hawk Warriors".
It looks like Guts is pretty famous among the Apostles. They apparently recognize him from the Occultation, and Grunbeld, glad to meet the legend, challenges him.
In the mansion, Isidro tells Schierke to use magic against the fire, but she's far too upset for that. She then hears her master's voice, telling her to bring the armor to the Black Swordsman (the helmet looks like a skull).


It seems that finally the saga of I'm a fucking idiot! ended and Guts now is facing enemies your height!
Poor Flora, to die burned of that way, but she already knew that would happen! If the helmet of Guts resembles a cranium..... a new Skullnight appears.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Saiki on June 27, 2003, 04:24:57 PM
SK evolved from his hatred of void (or something like that),

We don't know this yet. Skully could've just been attacking the nearest Godhand for all we know.

I was gonna post a summary but the forum bugged up on me the first time and I dont feel like typing it up again. Anyways, one thing that this chapter proves is that Grunbeld was not at the eclipse. Oh, and Guts can barely stand, let alone fight Grunbeld.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: namayias on June 27, 2003, 05:52:45 PM
i wonder why grunbeld wasn't at the eclipse.  What are is his intentions.  Are they like Zodd's to fight the strongest or something.  Grunbeld has so much more mystery to him it's irritating
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Mizar on June 27, 2003, 06:05:04 PM
Oh, and Guts can barely stand, let alone fight Grunbeld.

Just wait after Guts puts on the armor. ;)
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: psymont on June 27, 2003, 06:21:08 PM
grunbelb is gonna be a one hit kill
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Vampiric_Swordsman on June 27, 2003, 06:35:48 PM
grunbelb is gonna be a one hit kill

What makes you say that psymont? Grunbeld looks like a tough bastard.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Majin Tenshi on June 27, 2003, 06:41:55 PM
Just wait after Guts puts on the armor. ;)
 I fail to see how this will help
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Mizar on June 27, 2003, 08:22:19 PM
I fail to see how this will help

The armor's added "spirit" might just help him recover enough of his strength to be able to put up a decent fight again. Doesn't look all that unlikely to me, really.
How else is Guts going to be able to fight again? Grunbeld will be really disappointed, you know?
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: roberto999 on June 27, 2003, 09:44:29 PM
Just wait after Guts puts on the armor. ;)
It is very easy to put on an armor in a fight: everyone just wait that you have finished.

"Take your time mister Guts, anytime this week, we are at your service"
 ;D
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Mizar on June 27, 2003, 10:22:21 PM
Hey, even apostles must have some honor left, don't they? Grunbeld won't fight a defenseless Guts, especially now he knows who he is.

And if not, someone like Schierke or Serpico will probably be able to provide some distraction.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: ZKK on June 28, 2003, 02:54:26 AM
Another great chapter from the sounds of things - many thanks Mr. Hague.

I'd guess, or at least I'd hope that if Grunbeld has actually gone to the effort of singling Guts out for a challenge, and is visibly glad to have the chance, I don't think he'll want a cheap victory over him - Apostle or not, these Apostles 'types' seem to relish a challenging fight (eg. Zodd) which is great for us - very entertaining. But more out of enjoyment than honor... well that痴 my 2 cents anyway.

And is history possibly repeating itself? With the skull shaped helm/visor, and some of Flora and Skull Knight's minimal conversation about past mistakes or choices was it - could Guts' path be paralleling or mimicking Skull Knight's, and could that make Skull Knight's earlier days and reasons for being simular to whats happened to Guts'...? I know, I know - I'll stop... drawing a very long bow there sorry.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: korkor on June 28, 2003, 03:01:58 AM
hey if grumbeld is as honorable as you think him to be, maybe he'll even heal up guts  :P

i have feeling flora isnt gona make it through this... so Guts is gona deffenitly need someone to do the healing for him...
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Smith on June 28, 2003, 03:37:20 AM
I can only speculate 2 possible outcome with Guts fighting Grunbeld...

How else is Guts going to be able to fight again? Grunbeld will be really disappointed, you know?

1st one is that he might really lose, just like the 1st encounter with HICK! Guts might just collapse under his wound without even putting a good fight. Grunbeld will then be not only disppointed but also look down on him: "What legendary warrior is this? Black swordsman? I dun see any great skills in u, u r nothing more than a worthless piece of shit to me..."

Maybe the second fight will then realize that Guts is indeed the ultimate strong one!

The armor's added "spirit" might just help him recover enough of his strength to be able to put up a decent fight again.

The other outcome is Guts put on the armor and win the battle!  ;D . It will end with the hawk retreating from Flora house...
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Saiki on June 28, 2003, 04:39:50 AM
i wonder why grunbeld wasn't at the eclipse.  What are is his intentions.  Are they like Zodd's to fight the strongest or something.  Grunbeld has so much more mystery to him it's irritating

It could be that he is an apostle like Zodd and didn't care about the eclipse. Or he isn't an apostle at all.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: ZOE on June 28, 2003, 09:31:48 AM
   god,it's gonna be damn good.....couldn't wait
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Dark Wanderer on June 28, 2003, 09:41:40 AM
Hey, even apostles must have some honor left, don't they? Grunbeld won't fight a defenseless Guts, especially now he knows who he is.

Well, if the apostles are like Zodd, then amybe. However, remember that Zodd was still going to kill Guts the frist time they meet when he couldn't fight anymore, so maybe Grunbeld will still try to fight and kill Guts in his weakened state.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: incognitoX on June 28, 2003, 09:48:55 AM
Oh hell yeah. This story is getting hotter than the weather!

A legend fighting a legend. The next chapter will surely be great. But will this battle end with Guts defeating Grunbeld? It doesn't seem right. Grunbeld seems to be one of the more major players to Griffiths camp..so why kill him off so suddenly? Maybe it's just a tease.

Hopefully Guts will hang in there and live his sword up to its name.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Mizar on June 28, 2003, 12:56:01 PM
The new YA just arrived at my door :), here's my summary of this cool chapter:

Schierke freaks out when she sees that Flora's house is on fire and starts running towards it, Serpico and Isidro follow her. Guts tells them to stop her. Now Guts notices the bunch of apostles moving towards Flora's house in the distance. He charges one of them and buries his sword deep inside his shoulder. The apostle is surprised at this but he grabs the sword and simply throws Guts away with it. The apostle then transforms into some huge and hideous form to finish off Guts, but Skully appears and slices the creature in two. The other apostles wonder who the fuck this Skullface guy is, but one of them says that he saw him at the eclipse and also recognizes Guts as one of their master's sacrifices. Zodd and Grunbeld also make their appearance at this stage and Grunbeld mentions he wants to try out Guts himself. As Grunbeld is ready to take a swing at Guts the scene switches to Schierke blindly moving through the flames searching for Flora. Isidro saves her just in time for the flames to reach her but hurts himself on the head in the process. He starts yelling at her asking what the hell she's doing, and what happened to her magic. But Schierke is far too upset to be able to use her magic and starts crying. Serpico wants to take them out of the house saying that it's impossible to find Flora in these flames. As they're about to leave Schierke suddenly hears Flora's voice in her head telling her to bring the armor to Guts....

OMG, amazing chapter, but I must correct myself here. Grunbeld isn't going to wait for nobody, he's just about to smash puny little Guts with his huge sledgehammer. However, Guts doesn't look completely defenseless yet, he is still able to fight I think (or at least dodge).

And I don't know about the armor, it doesn't look like the old Skully armor. I doesn't even really look like a skull helmet to me. Wait, I'd better shut up and just put up a picture of the armor here.


(http://members.home.nl/rgorski/Chapter 223/armor.jpg)
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Grifth on June 28, 2003, 01:04:27 PM
beautiful BEAUTIFUL omg omg im getting an orgasm over here HOLY SHIT THIS ARMOR KICKS ASS must see Guts in armor NOW. DRAW MIURA DRAW, im gonna try and do a sketch of Guts in tha armor should i or can i  post it here?
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Uriel on June 28, 2003, 01:34:56 PM
Wow. That is some evil looking armour. Thanks a lot Mizar ;D Guts is going to have to dodge. Sure the Dragon Slayer could block it, but I'm not sure if Guts will have the vitality to keep blocking. 224 is going to be so fucking great!
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Smith on June 28, 2003, 01:38:17 PM
A millions thanks to u Mizar  :D




(http://members.home.nl/rgorski/Chapter 223/armor.jpg)

That was Gaiseric Armor!!!!!!  :o :o :o

Or at least it look like it  :P
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Uriel on June 28, 2003, 01:52:18 PM
A millions thanks to u Mizar  :DThat was Gaiseric Armor!!!!!!  :o :o :o

Or at least it look like it  :P
Oh yes, it's almost an exact replica:

(http://members.aol.com/Mhodge666/erm.jpg)
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: xechnao on June 28, 2003, 02:04:50 PM
I think for Guts it's good he faces Grunbell without armour. Armour could not benefit him only perhaps encumber him.
It's impossible the armour offered any protection from Grunbeld's warhammer or cannon hits.
I also believe it's gonna be very short, at least hurting Grunbeld out of his human form. Guts could not stand a cannon blast thus he has to press constant. Any time-break out could give offer the conveniency for a cannon blast.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Smith on June 28, 2003, 02:18:43 PM
I think for Guts it's good he faces Grunbell without armour. Armour could not benefit him only perhaps encumber him.
It's impossible the armour offered any protection from Grunbeld's warhammer or cannon hits.


Do u know the magic abilities of this armor? If u dunno then what make u think so this armor could not stand Grunbeld warhammer(Cannon i may believe), and that the armor will encumber him?

If u are talking about encumbrance , then maybe u should focus on DS!
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: xechnao on June 28, 2003, 02:25:53 PM
I was talking about his old armour or any normal armour that can come to mind.
I don't know what super abilities grants Flora's armor so I can't comment on this.
Dragonslayer may encumber but it is Guts good possibility to hurt his foes or at least put them under pressure.It can also be used to parry blows and strikes more effectively than armour.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Smith on June 28, 2003, 02:31:40 PM
I was talking about his old armour or any normal armour that can come to mind.
I don't know what super abilities grants Flora's armor so I can't comment on this.
Dragonslayer may encumber but it is Guts possibility to hurt his foes or at least put them under pressure.It can also be used to parry blows and strikes more effectively than armour.

Oops! I didnt know u are a newcomer  :P

Sorry for being a bit rude to u! Hope u dont mind  :D

Anyway welcome on board!!!  ;D
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: xechnao on June 28, 2003, 02:40:16 PM
Thanks. I introduce myself here.
This is a nice board. By the way is the admin a lover of llamas?
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: The Perineum Falcon on June 28, 2003, 04:16:45 PM
By the way is the admin a lover of llamas?

yeah, he's into that really weird porno you cant send through the mail. i'll be honest it aint cool, creeps out the whole board...

and am i the only one who doesnt like the look of the armor? sorry, but it kinda looks awkward to me. perhaps itll look better when Guts puts it on.
sounds like an amazing chapter. all thats needed now is for Ouji to hurry up with the scans ;)
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: xechnao on June 28, 2003, 04:43:08 PM
I agree, it looks like circus. By the way where is he gonna put his bionic canon arm? Maybe he is gonna give it for some mod and trig to his gadget-man rickert.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Majin Tenshi on June 28, 2003, 07:26:13 PM
I agree, it looks like circus. By the way where is he gonna put his bionic canon arm? Maybe he is gonna give it for some mod and trig to his gadget-man rickert.
or he could just not wear the left gauntlet.  
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: kimchan on June 28, 2003, 08:42:08 PM
or he could just not wear the left gauntlet.  

I don't know Majin, that sounds awfully complicated.  :-X


The armor does look slightly like a skull to me, but I don't think it's up there with Skully's just yet.  It's kind of tough for me to picture Guts wearing something like that, but it'll definitely be interesting to see.  As for its powers, obviously there's something up with it if Flora's that insistant to get it to Guts.  Maybe it won't emcumber him as much as we think.  

Anyway, WOW.  These chapters just keep getting better!   ;D
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: namayias on June 28, 2003, 08:45:46 PM
or he could just not wear the left gauntlet.  

 ::) or maybe the armor has such great dark magical powers that it allows him to control his prosthetic(?) arm/hand like it were real. ::)
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Dark Wanderer on June 28, 2003, 08:47:53 PM
I really wonder what he's going to do about the cannon-arm too. Doesn't look like it'd fit with that armor, so unless his cannon-arm is destroyed in the upcoming fight with Grunbeld, I can't even guess what he's gonna do about it... It'd be sad to see the cannon-arm, that has saved Guts so many times, disappear out of the story through...
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: korkor on June 29, 2003, 01:08:15 AM
yes and even sadder to see Guts walking around in the armor with one hand missing  :P
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Wereallmad on June 29, 2003, 01:40:33 AM
(http://members.home.nl/rgorski/Chapter 223/armor.jpg)

holy shit.

But for those saying it looks like Gaiseric's armor, I'm gonna disagree. The eyepieces look identical, yes, but that's it.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Smith on June 29, 2003, 01:43:02 AM
I can't even guess what he's gonna do about it...

He gonna use his DS and slash off the left gauntlet, then he can wear the armor with his Cannon  ;D

Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Wereallmad on June 29, 2003, 02:08:03 AM
He gonna use his DS and slash off the left gauntlet, then he can wear the armor with his Cannon  ;D



You don't even know how that piece of the armor fits yet. It could be that ther underside consists of nother more than a strap or something so it could be worn over the cannon.

Besides, why the hell would be cut the arm off when armor fits together with straps and hooks and stuff, wouldn't it be simpler to just *gasp* remove the gauntlet?
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Smith on June 29, 2003, 02:53:46 AM

Besides, why the hell would be cut the arm off when armor fits together with straps and hooks and stuff, wouldn't it be simpler to just *gasp* remove the gauntlet?

Only if it isnt one whole piece, then i believe u idea is better :)

Btw, the armor really look eriee! Like some kind of ghost armor  
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Wereallmad on June 29, 2003, 03:58:59 AM
if it were all one piece, it would be a statue, not a suit of armor.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Smith on June 29, 2003, 06:10:36 AM
Enough of this armor thing, I m sure that Guts is gonna get this armor soon

I'm more concerned about Flora whereabout, which the heck did she go? Is she dead?

Last but not least! The final battle between Grunbeld and Guts, who will win?  :-\
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: roberto999 on June 29, 2003, 07:03:57 AM
Enough of this armor thing, I m sure that Guts is gonna get this armor soon

I'm more concerned about Flora whereabout, which the heck did she go? Is she dead?

Last but not least! The final battle between Grunbeld and Guts, who will win?  :-\
Does this answer your question?:
Quote
. He charges one of them and buries his sword deep inside his shoulder. The apostle is surprised at this but he grabs the sword and simply throws Guts away with it. The apostle then transforms into some huge and hideous form to finish off Guts, but Skully appears and slices the creature in two.
Gruenbeld is much stronger than that apostle: It seems that Guts has become the DiD (Damsel in Distress) of Skully recently.   ;D  And I think this answers also at those that see Dragonslayer like a magical weapon.And Farnese and Casca were are they in the meanwhile ? hiding somewhere? There are apostles that are able to smell out humans. Remember the dog faced apostle that did  follow the trail of Guts and Casca to Godo Mountain? Like he did i don't know since Skully did take them there flying ,   ;D but he did it somehow.


Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Dark Wanderer on June 29, 2003, 08:35:43 AM
yes and even sadder to see Guts walking around in the armor with one hand missing  :P

Heh, true :p. But what if it's one of the armor's magical properites: to be able to become a "real" arm, as long as he has the armor on?  ;D
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Dark Wanderer on June 29, 2003, 08:44:55 AM
seems that Guts has become the DiD (Damsel in Distress) of Skully recently.   ;D

Well, seems like Skully's destiny is to save Guts from the wotst kind of trouble :D. However, I wonder if things really looks that bad for Guts? sure, he's got a "soul wound" and are up against one of the most dangerous opponents he has faced so far, but if you think about his iron will, then I think that he won't give up without a fight :)
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: xechnao on June 29, 2003, 10:12:29 AM
[quote author=roberto999 And Farnese and Casca were are they in the meanwhile ? hiding somewhere? There are apostles that are able to smell out humans. Remember the dog faced apostle that did  follow the trail of Guts and Casca to Godo Mountain? Like he did i don't know since Skully did take them there flying ,   ;D but he did it somehow.
Quote

Because obvoiously they don't give a shit right now for the sacrificed Casca and Guts. Leave it be that Flora decreased the effect of the unholy mark.
Right now their mission is to annihilate Flora but Guts wants to tell them something before.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Smith on June 29, 2003, 10:29:50 AM
I had been wondering whether Flora is dead! But then she will be hiding in one corner helping Guts by using her magical power (she will be a lot more useful that Schierke)  ;)

224 is sure gonna rock, but what if the whole chapter is focusing on how Schierke getting the armor for Guts, without even showing the battle between the 2 Gs (Giant if u wan to call them)
 
Then i have to wait for another fortnight  :'(

Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: daniel3 on June 29, 2003, 02:28:48 PM
I don't think Guts' iron arm would get in the way of wearing due to it's size being equivalent to his real arm. Also when has Guts every really had the upper hand against an apostle? He always has problems with every apostle he fights until he finds their weak point, which takes time. That's how he fights, he can't easily kill apostles like skull knight or Zodd so he has to basically weather an asswhooping for a while before he can see an opening or find a way to kill the apostles. He are smawt.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Dark Wanderer on June 29, 2003, 02:55:59 PM
I don't think Guts' iron arm would get in the way of wearing due to it's size being equivalent to his real arm. Also when has Guts every really had the upper hand against an apostle? He always has problems with every apostle he fights until he finds their weak point, which takes time. That's how he fights, he can't easily kill apostles like skull knight or Zodd so he has to basically weather an asswhooping for a while before he can see an opening or find a way to kill the apostles. He are smawt.

Well, some apostles have been quite tough for him, but he has managed to finish off some apostles rather quickly. Really, the only ones that seems to have taken a longer time for him to finish off or was especially hard for him to beat is the snail Count, Roshinu and Mozgus. Zodd is so far the only apostle who has fought Guts as the Black Swordsman and survived it. And be a little careful with what you say; Skully is no apostle althrough he certainly seems to be something :).
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Uriel on June 29, 2003, 03:15:29 PM
Really, the only ones that seems to have taken a longer time for him to finish off or was especially hard for him to beat is the snail Count, Roshinu and Mozgus.
Mozgus wasn't an apostle.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Smith on June 29, 2003, 03:39:26 PM
Mozgus wasn't an apostle.

He was a fake one i suppose
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Aazealh on June 29, 2003, 03:41:49 PM
He was a fake one i suppose

Didn't you read the manga ?
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: BOB on June 29, 2003, 03:58:19 PM
yeah, i always thought that those wings weren't real.
now we finally got proof.
thx a lot
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Dark Wanderer on June 29, 2003, 04:33:14 PM
Mozgus wasn't an apostle.

No, not really, but he was as tough an an apostle might be :p.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: *Gyom* on June 29, 2003, 06:16:44 PM
No, not really, but he was as tough an an apostle might be :p.
So Guts is an apostle to you ?^^
Guil
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: korkor on June 29, 2003, 06:25:04 PM
do you think its safe to assume flora is still alive, since she "talked" to Schierke?
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: psymont on June 29, 2003, 06:28:29 PM
do you think its safe to assume flora is still alive, since she "talked" to Schierke?

maybe she was talking to Schierke like ob1 was talking to luke
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: *Gyom* on June 29, 2003, 06:29:59 PM
do you think its safe to assume flora is still alive, since she "talked" to Schierke?
I think she might be telepathing with Schierke while she's preparing a last effort to save her child/kill apostles before she dies.
Guil
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Mizar on June 29, 2003, 07:04:51 PM
do you think its safe to assume flora is still alive, since she "talked" to Schierke?

As Flora is speaking to Schierke telepathically (of course she's still alive at this part) we can see a vague image of her sitting on a chair surrounded by fire. I think this might be a trick of her in order to hide herself from those apostles; she is still a witch, after all. I doubt Flora is trying to commit suicide, and afaik the apostles were all still on their way to her house when it caught fire.

Yes, I'm optimistic, I believe there is still some hope left for her to see Schierke's smile once more before she dies. :)
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Dark Wanderer on June 29, 2003, 07:14:18 PM
So Guts is an apostle to you ?^^
Guil

Nope, but Mozgus was so close to an Apostle as one can be, i suppose. Tough and subborn :p. Of course, that desciption would fit on Guts too :p.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: roberto999 on June 29, 2003, 07:24:53 PM
As Flora is speaking to Schierke telepathically (of course she's still alive at this part) we can see a vague image of her sitting on a chair surrounded by fire.
mmm I have a serious doubt that we will see her ever again: If hers is not a message from beyond she is just waiting to die. Anyway I think that her work is now enterily done and she can rest at last.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: SaiyajinNoOuji on June 29, 2003, 10:15:07 PM
Alrgiht, here is the scoop... As soon as I get off work today I am heading over to the Jusco to get my copy of Volume 25 and the current YA! So hopefully I will have the scans up in about 12 hours.... Sorry for the wait! but things worthwhile are worth the time spent waiting!!! W00t! ;D
Title: It's all a question of hair.
Post by: Uriel on June 29, 2003, 10:24:13 PM
(http://members.aol.com/Mhodge666/Berserk/vol24-telepathy.jpg)
Safe to assume she is alive?

Alrgiht, here is the scoop... As soon as I get off work today I am heading over to the Jusco to get my copy of Volume 25 and the current YA! So hopefully I will have the scans up in about 12 hours.... Sorry for the wait! but things worthwhile are worth the time spent waiting!!! W00t! ;D
Excellent man! Looking forward to that ^_^ Oh yeah, if you get volume 25, can we have a nice BIG scan? Pleeeeease?
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: daniel3 on June 29, 2003, 10:59:25 PM
And be a little careful with what you say; Skully is no apostle althrough he certainly seems to be something :).

I really meant strong beings like zodd or skull knight.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Smith on June 30, 2003, 08:23:18 AM
Didn't you read the manga ?

LOL! Of coz i did! Morgze was granted supernatural power by the Beherit apostle, so is the rest of the disciples!  ::)  


Alrgiht, here is the scoop... As soon as I get off work today I am heading over to the Jusco to get my copy of Volume 25 and the current YA! So hopefully I will have the scans up in about 12 hours.... Sorry for the wait! but things worthwhile are worth the time spent waiting!!! W00t! ;D

I m really looking forward to that!  :D
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Uriel on June 30, 2003, 10:14:04 PM
SaiyajinNoOuji, everything cool man? I mean.. it's been almost 24 hours now :-\ *feels like he's been waiting for 72 hours*
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: SaiyajinNoOuji on June 30, 2003, 10:50:49 PM
Well here is the deal....

My tubby friend who has a car was to farking lazy to take me so it's going to have to be today after work that I get it...  ::)  Sorry for the delay...
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Aazealh on June 30, 2003, 11:14:05 PM
No need to be sorry bud, if some are unhappy because they have 2 days to wait to get a free pre-publication, they can move their asses, go earn money and buy YA themselves.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Majin Tenshi on June 30, 2003, 11:44:21 PM
Well here is the deal....

My tubby friend who has a car was to farking lazy to take me so it's going to have to be today after work that I get it...  ::)  Sorry for the delay...

you don't need to apologize to us lazy leeches.  
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: korkor on July 01, 2003, 02:10:35 AM
what they said  :P
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Smith on July 01, 2003, 05:45:37 AM
Well here is the deal....

My tubby friend who has a car was to farking lazy to take me so it's going to have to be today after work that I get it...  ::)  Sorry for the delay...

Well, there is nothing to apologise, just hope that u can get the scans soon!  :)
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: MangyKid Ver.4.5 on July 01, 2003, 05:51:01 AM
I'll jump on the bandwagon here and thank you and stuff. So thanks, no big deal. After all, I'm not a COMPLETE asshole.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: namayias on July 01, 2003, 06:42:12 AM
yeah no apologies needed ouji.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Grifth on July 01, 2003, 06:17:07 PM
HURRY UP SLACKER NOWWWWW I WANT SCANS (yes i know im being an asshole) dont apologise man theres no need, were the ones u should be thanking you and by the way thank you (again)
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Wii wii wii on July 01, 2003, 06:32:11 PM
I think I hate Grunbeld
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Grifth on July 01, 2003, 08:06:01 PM
realy whys that? actually hes one of my favorite from griffths apostles, after zod and raskas
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Wii wii wii on July 01, 2003, 08:18:17 PM
realy whys that? actually hes one of my favorite from griffths apostles, after zod and raskas
Well I prefer Zodd, Raskas and Locus I don't hate Grunbeld yet but if he takes advatage of Guts weakend state and beats Guts I'm afraid he might feel all high and mighty like he beat Guts easily. :'(
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Walter on July 01, 2003, 08:57:25 PM
Well I prefer Zodd, Raskas and Locus I don't hate Grunbeld yet but if he takes advatage of Guts weakend state and beats Guts I'm afraid he might feel all high and mighty like he beat Guts easily. :'(
Sounds to me like you've already read chapter 224 and 225. Amazing!
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: SaiyajinNoOuji on July 01, 2003, 09:00:08 PM
I HAVE THE SCANS!!!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D I am uploading them as I type! Give me like 15 minutes or so.  8)
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: SaiyajinNoOuji on July 01, 2003, 09:26:18 PM
Alright, I don't have time to put them in the HTML so here is the link to the first picture... it goes all the way up to 19 so just change it at the top..

http://kuroikenshi.150m.com/Pics/Current%20YA/Chapter%20223/01.jpg (http://kuroikenshi.150m.com/Pics/Current%20YA/Chapter%20223/01.jpg)

Work is mad busy right now, enjoy!
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Uriel on July 01, 2003, 09:29:16 PM
Can I have a container of your sperm? I want my future children to have your Godliness! :p Thanks a lot man, this is gonna fucking rock.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: The Perineum Falcon on July 01, 2003, 09:31:33 PM
thank you, you marvelous, marvelous creature.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Majin Tenshi on July 01, 2003, 09:35:16 PM
THANKS!

oh, and is anyone else bothered by this whole Apostles in armor thing?  
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Vampire_Hunter_Bob on July 01, 2003, 09:48:59 PM
Thanks Ouji.

oh, and is anyone else bothered by this whole Apostles in armor thing?  


I don't see why i should. Grunbeld is one tall mother fucker!

- Bob
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: theblakeman on July 01, 2003, 09:57:15 PM
Wow, that was a flat-out kick-ass chapter. Damn, just looking at Grunbeld compared to Zodd and Guts's height is scary. I wonder how Guts is gonna pull this one off...
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Wereallmad on July 01, 2003, 10:05:51 PM
Jesus, Zodd used to be the biggest thing out there. This is crazy stuff, thanks man.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Uriel on July 01, 2003, 10:17:22 PM
When I saw page 16, I actually felt for Guts. He is up to his neck in shit this time  :-\

oh, and is anyone else bothered by this whole Apostles in armor thing?

I think it'd be a bit weirder if they roamed the battlefield butt naked. Then again, it'd be a sure way to surprise the enemy.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: The Perineum Falcon on July 01, 2003, 10:27:30 PM
that armor is so goddamn ugly...
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Majin Tenshi on July 01, 2003, 10:37:13 PM
I don't see why i should.
- Bob

Replacement costs for starters.  Every time they transform it obliterates the armor.  On top of that, with their power, they shouldn't need armor against most opponents.  

You'd think it'd be more worthwhile to just wear normal clotheing.  At least thats easier to replace.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: theblakeman on July 01, 2003, 10:44:11 PM
They probably only transform when they're in a pickle  ;)
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Dark Wanderer on July 01, 2003, 11:12:10 PM
Replacement costs for starters.  Every time they transform it obliterates the armor.  On top of that, with their power, they shouldn't need armor against most opponents.  

You'd think it'd be more worthwhile to just wear normal clotheing.  At least thats easier to replace.

Well, sometimes a small advantage (the armor) has it's uses :). Besides, if Griffith has forbidden them to transform while they're battling before normal people's eyes, then the armor does probably have it's uses.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: korkor on July 01, 2003, 11:16:08 PM
maybe it has something to do with them being in an ARMY!
and usually soldiers in an army wear armor...
plus if they didnt, their own side would probably attack them since they are so damn ugly  :P


omg zodd and Guts seem like midgets in front of Grunbeld...

kinda like isdro and Guts....  ;)
wonder if Guts will use his example...
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Wii wii wii on July 01, 2003, 11:23:04 PM
Thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to give us these treats.Guts and skelly are in it this time even if Guts does beat the big idiot they have Zodd and a army of apostles to get through. And yeah the apostles armor looks like ass, speaking of which do you all like the idea of an apostle army or is it just way overpowered.(*sigh* I miss Locus :'()
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Dark Wanderer on July 01, 2003, 11:23:28 PM
omg zodd and Guts seem like midgets in front of Grunbeld...

True O_o. I wonder how well he will do against Grunbeld in his weakened state...

Maybe, he'll blow away Guts with one hit and then snort something like "You're not worthy of my effort. Begone!". Also, I wonder if we'll see Guts in his new armor in the current battle, or not? At least, it doesn't seem like he'd have much time to change into it during the current battle, unless Skully/Serpico keept the apostle-army busy while he was doing it...
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Wii wii wii on July 01, 2003, 11:32:32 PM
True O_o. I wonder how well he will do against Grunbeld in his weakened state...

Maybe, he'll blow away Guts with one hit and then snort something like "You're not worthy of my effort. Begone!".
I hope it does not come to that :-\
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Grifth on July 02, 2003, 12:02:46 AM
ha wounded or not Guts is gonna kick grunbelds ass and he doenst need no armor! u forget that when Guts is at his worst physical state its when he does his best  ;D
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Metal Soldier on July 02, 2003, 12:08:35 AM
Thanks for the scans, Grunbeld is indeed, a big dude.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: roberto999 on July 02, 2003, 12:12:05 AM
Besides, if Griffith has forbidden them to transform while they're battling before normal people's eyes.
But has he ?And why ? Everyone can see that they are monsters even if they don't transform further. One has only to look at the eyes and teeth of the more human looking (Gruenbeld) to understand
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: krebs4life on July 02, 2003, 02:52:16 AM
Replacement costs for starters.  Every time they transform it obliterates the armor.  On top of that, with their power, they shouldn't need armor against most opponents.  

You'd think it'd be more worthwhile to just wear normal clotheing.  At least thats easier to replace.

well majin most apostles that weve seen so far, or at least the ones that seem to act semi-civilized have worn armor.  the snake baron, wyald and zodd, the other apostles that weve come across, their character is so not suited for armor that they shouldnt even be considered.

i cant imagine replacement costs would be that high, considering the ones that do wear armor, dont have to 'transform' each time they put it on, plus when they do fuck up their armor it seems that they either have enough armor that it simply doesnt matter, or armor is readily availible to them.

and why would an apostle march into war without armor on?  i dont think theyd want the whole world to know what they are, and even so i dont think they want to be unnecessarily injured

weve seen apostles in armor throughout the story, i dont see why it only bothers you now
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: MangyKid Ver.4.5 on July 02, 2003, 03:01:39 AM
that guy on the second page with the horseshoe crab on his head is going to kick all their asses, just you wait and see!
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: namayias on July 02, 2003, 04:15:31 AM
replacement costs shouldn't be bad, since it seems they use pots, pans and strainers to make there armor.

Thanks for scans OUJI!
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: secilj on July 02, 2003, 04:23:03 AM
Thanks a lot for your great effort, SaiyajinNoOuji.  :)

Quite a good chapter. Grunbeld has introduced himself quite successfully, and we all got a big impression of his BIG body.
I want a somewhat gruesome fight btw Guts and Grunbeld. But I think it's impossible for now cause Guts has been wounded by Lady Slan.  ;D
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Godo on July 02, 2003, 08:04:04 AM
Two thoughts:

1. Hey..anyone see the obvious connection between Grunbeld and a dragon? and Guts here's got the dragonslayer.... hmmmmm ....

2. Doesn't Guts's new armor reminiscent of the Count Dracula cloak? Must be the high collar  ???

J
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Smith on July 02, 2003, 10:19:57 AM
Alright, I don't have time to put them in the HTML so here is the link to the first picture... it goes all the way up to 19 so just change it at the top..

http://kuroikenshi.150m.com/Pics/Current%20YA/Chapter%20223/01.jpg (http://kuroikenshi.150m.com/Pics/Current%20YA/Chapter%20223/01.jpg)

Work is mad busy right now, enjoy!

OMFG!!!!!  :o :o :o
THIS IS AWESOME!!!!

First I m very surprised when i saw this:

(http://members.aol.com/Mhodge666/Berserk/223-Grunbled-Guts-Coloured.jpg)

Look at the size of Grunbeld! I didnt expect it be that BIG! Not only it is twice the size of human Zodd but the shield alone is even bigger than Guts himself! I thought DS was the largest weapon ever, until i saw this mallet...

Well, Guts really look like a puny opponent against him, hard to decide who will win!

Sigh... waiting for 224 now is even longer than the next christmas  :'(



Btw Oujin! I shall worship u as God now *hands down*  ;D


Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: The Perineum Falcon on July 02, 2003, 03:01:14 PM
i cant believe you people are actually arguing about replacement costs for fictional armor...
youve reached a new low.

and when is the next chapter due? i didnt see a date this time. is it next issue or something?
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Wii wii wii on July 02, 2003, 03:15:49 PM
I thought DS was the largest weapon ever, until i saw this mallet...

Well, Guts really look like a puny opponent against him, hard to decide who will win!

Sigh... waiting for 224 now is even longer than the next christmas  :'(



Btw Oujin! I shall worship u as God now *hands down*  ;D



I think that the Dragon Slayer is the same size as Grunbeld's war-hammer.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Nosferatubeast on July 02, 2003, 03:48:24 PM
I think Guts will lose this FIRST encounter with Grunbeld.  I know Miura won't kill Guts here.  At the most, I think Grunbeld will leave Guts for dead.  Skully bails out with Guts(unconscious) on horseback.  Skully finds a way to cure Guts' spiritual injury.  Guts gets his armor and maybe undergo some training, and he'll get the 411 on the Hawks camp.  Proceed to the camp, and use your imagination...
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Majin Tenshi on July 02, 2003, 03:50:35 PM
Two thoughts:

1. Hey..anyone see the obvious connection between Grunbeld and a dragon? and Guts here's got the dragonslayer.... hmmmmm ....

2. Doesn't Guts's new armor reminiscent of the Count Dracula cloak? Must be the high collar  ???

J
1. Yes, I mentioned a few pages back that the DS may live up to its name.
2. That "collar" is actaly two spikes starting from the front of the neck and going back.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: xechnao on July 02, 2003, 04:08:08 PM
Thanks fot the scans, you are superman.
What I could say about this chapter is that if Miura wants to make it longer the solution of Nosferatu could indeed stand*. This way this Saga has served to show the current condition of the two worlds imerging and introduce Guts new armour.

*or at least have a draw of the two combatants.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Uriel on July 02, 2003, 04:19:55 PM
i cant believe you people are actually arguing about replacement costs for fictional armor...
youve reached a new low.
Second that!
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Wii wii wii on July 02, 2003, 04:20:31 PM
I think Guts will lose this FIRST encounter with Grunbeld.  I know Miura won't kill Guts here.  At the most, I think Grunbeld will leave Guts for dead.  Skully bails out with Guts(unconscious) on horseback.  Skully finds a way to cure Guts' spiritual injury.  Guts gets his armor and maybe undergo some training, and he'll get the 411 on the Hawks camp.  Proceed to the camp, and use your imagination...
I had not thought of that it's a great idea though maybe Skully will train him or summat.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: xechnao on July 02, 2003, 04:39:46 PM
Another idea is that Grifith show up and Skully parts the scene to encounter him while at the same time Zodd has joined with Guts and together they fight the other apostles.
Neeeee
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Nosferatubeast on July 02, 2003, 05:04:13 PM
Quote from: xechnao *or at least have a draw of the two combatants.
[quote

I don't think this will end in a draw.  A draw to me would mean something like when Zodd and Guts fought on the hills.  Guts was at 100% and Zodd was at 100%, and Griffith called the fight off.  I think Guts and Skully will retreat after Guts takes a beating, or Grunbeld will look down on Guts and withdraw the contest.  Or maybe I'm just underestimating Guts, and he has more stamina and strength then I realize.  Either way I love Berserk and speculating, and I can't wait for chapter 224.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: xechnao on July 02, 2003, 05:10:48 PM
The draw could be sketched to show the progress of the skill and power of Guts but like you I see it impropable.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Nosferatubeast on July 02, 2003, 05:23:15 PM
The draw could be sketched to show the progress of the skill and power of Guts but like you I see it impropable.

Yeah it could be sketched to show that, but it seems to me that Miura designed this scene for Guts to lose.  I mean he fought 100+ trolls and Slann back to back.  No armor, no spiritual energy, and the beast is cold turkey!  Surrounded by hordes of apostles...not to mention THE apostle Zodd himself.  Unless Skully intervenes Guts is soup.  But we won't know for sure until the next chapter.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: xechnao on July 02, 2003, 05:43:39 PM
As I said maybe Zodd teams up with Guts and together they give a hell of a fight to the other apostles.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Wereallmad on July 02, 2003, 05:59:25 PM
i cant believe you people are actually arguing about replacement costs for fictional armor...
youve reached a new low.

and when is the next chapter due? i didnt see a date this time. is it next issue or something?

Now wait a miniute, the thread hasn't gotten that bad ye

As I said maybe Zodd teams up with Guts and together they give a hell of a fight to the other apostles.

Oh, there we go. Well at least no one is dragging down the thread by speculating that Grunbeld is Guts' father, and Zoddo is Guts' mother.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: xechnao on July 02, 2003, 06:15:12 PM
Now wait a miniute, the thread hasn't gotten that bad yeOh, there we go. Well at least no one is dragging down the thread by speculating that Grunbeld is Guts' father, and Zoddo is Guts' mother.
Do you know japaneese? I don't know what the hell they are talking in their happy meeting over there. So I don't exclude Zodd to make the joker. He has been a wild card till now in the story.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Dark Wanderer on July 02, 2003, 06:21:33 PM
But has he ?And why ? Everyone can see that they are monsters even if they don't transform further. One has only to look at the eyes and teeth of the more human looking (Gruenbeld) to understand

Well, no need to make them more "monstery" than they usually do then. It looks like thye so far have remained into the shadows, they help Griffith in battle but otherwise, they keep away from other people, or so it seems. Maybe, if people saw their true shape, they might not be too eager to rely on their help. As it's now, they do look scary, but nowhere as scary as in their true forms... Besides, who else than a few have seen Grunbeld's teeths so far? :3.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Dark Wanderer on July 02, 2003, 06:24:12 PM
omg zodd and Guts seem like midgets in front of Grunbeld...

Well, Grunbeld and his huge fellows (those behind him) are often refered to as giants and in this chapter, it becomes more clear to us than ever before why they're referred to as giants O_o...
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Darok on July 02, 2003, 06:27:39 PM
Appearance wise,  Zoddo sure does look like a wussy compared to Ol' Grunbeld....  I don't like that.  Zoddo is supposed to be the Uber-apostle...
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: xechnao on July 02, 2003, 06:29:43 PM
Well, Grunbeld and his huge fellows (those behind him) are often refered to as giants and in this chapter, it becomes more clear to us than ever before why they're referred to as giants O_o...

....
I Watched As He Shouted
To The Giants That Died That Day
...
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Wereallmad on July 02, 2003, 06:45:00 PM
Do you know japaneese? I don't know what the hell they are talking in their happy meeting over there. So I don't exclude Zodd to make the joker. He has been a wild card till now in the story.

I wouldn't say I "know" Japanese. I'm certainly not fluent, but I know some (2 years of Japanese language in college). Though I'm not at the stage where I can "read" Japanese, I can translate it with the aid of a dictionary. I'm usually too lazy though.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: xechnao on July 02, 2003, 06:50:34 PM
I wouldn't say I "know" Japanese. I'm certainly not fluent, but I know some (2 years of Japanese language in college). Though I'm not at the stage where I can "read" Japanese, I can translate it with the aid of a dictionary. I'm usually too lazy though.

So did you figure out what their chit chat is about?
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: *Gyom* on July 02, 2003, 07:04:05 PM
Well, Grunbeld and his huge fellows (those behind him) are often refered to as giants and in this chapter, it becomes more clear to us than ever before why they're referred to as giants O_o...
It has always been clear there are giants and we don't see Grunbeld's gigantism for the first time here. Thing is... Grunbeld coming from the north with his warriors, it may be possible that they form a group of giants (giant being astral beings like trolls and co ... ).
I'm a die-hard-stubborn bout it ... it seems Grunbeld may be an apostle but several points make me telling no. : /
Guil
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Dark Wanderer on July 02, 2003, 07:40:06 PM
It has always been clear there are giants and we don't see Grunbeld's gigantism for the first time here. Thing is... Grunbeld coming from the north with his warriors, it may be possible that they form a group of giants (giant being astral beings like trolls and co ... ).
I'm a die-hard-stubborn bout it ... it seems Grunbeld may be an apostle but several points make me telling no. : /
Guil

Well, that's as much as good speculation as anything else. if there's trolls and elves, witches and so on, then why not giants? I'd say that it remains to be seen, through.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Wii wii wii on July 02, 2003, 08:01:17 PM
Appearance wise,  Zoddo sure does look like a wussy compared to Ol' Grunbeld....  I don't like that.  Zoddo is supposed to be the Uber-apostle...
Yeah that got me sort of ticked to but if Zodd was transformed how would they measure up. However if Grunbeld is as apostle then would'nt he be able to transform also? Making him even taller!?
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Wereallmad on July 02, 2003, 08:07:17 PM
So did you figure out what their chit chat is about?

gimme a few minutes.

edit: maybe a few hours, I gotta take my cat to the vet.


Alright, I wont be able to translate the whole thing today, but I think this excerpt from page 14 should do it, lets hope I can figure out how to post unicode.

edited out temporarily

edit, no good, but you can read my poor attempts at a translation anyways. I'll figure that out the unicode when I get home
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Walter on July 02, 2003, 08:19:45 PM
You people need to just move on regarding the "HE'S SO TALL" issue.  Slan has big boobs, but I don't see you freaking out about them and posting 1000 times about it. Oh wait, yeah you did... Christ.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Grifth on July 02, 2003, 08:50:39 PM
got a few words for you all (the bigger they are the harder they fall) and this is no different u are all underestimating Guts. Miura did make this cenario to look that Guts would lose, and it will get worse no diferent from the other predictaments Guts as goten himself into, but buttom line he always comes out a winner sonner or later maybe he will lose this battle but if does damn skullys there too and we wont let grunbeld kill Guts. So maybe not this time but hell Grunbeld is gonna fall
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: roberto999 on July 02, 2003, 09:09:07 PM
An interesting point is that an apostle has recognized Skully from the Eclipse and he does not seem to know anything else about him. This is another point against Skully being a former Godhand. Everyone in the evil kingdom would know him in that case. Also apparently Skully did keep a very low profile in his thousand years war against the Godhand if is not more widely known. Apparently only the notables like Zod, the members of the Godhand and apparently some very important apostles like Toshinu and the Snail Count have heard about him (and Roshinu and the Snail count is not even sure)
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Dark Wanderer on July 02, 2003, 09:16:59 PM
An interesting point is that an apostle has recognized Skully from the Eclipse and he does not seems to know anything else about him. This is another point against Skully being a former Godhand. Everyone in the evil kindom would know him in that case. Also apparently Skully did keep a very low profile in his thousand years war against the Godhand if is not more widely known. Apparently only the notables like Zod, the members of the Godhand and apparently some very important apostles like Toshinu and the Snail Count have heard about him (and Roshinu and the Snail count is not even sure)

Was Roshinu and the snail Count really that important? It's true that it seems like they reknogized him or something like that when he appeard before them.. but on the other hand, they may just have sensed something dangerous about him (something similar to, say, what Guts felt about Flora, maybe?), that made them heistate enough to retreat. But we can't be sure about
that... Besides, roshunu had been an apostle for only a few years at that point, so how could she be important? Zodd is another matter, through. He seems to act more directly ont he order sof God Hand than the other ones, so maybe he knows more about a lot of things than your average apostle.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: SaiyajinNoOuji on July 02, 2003, 09:30:51 PM
One thing that I have not seen mentioned yet is... Do you think that maybe Guts can pull something out of his ass in the fight against Grunbeld and make him change into his UBER TRUE APOSTILE FORM!

I don't the fight will get that far but if it does...I don't think Guts will leave there on his own accord.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Uriel on July 02, 2003, 09:34:30 PM
Someone please edit that dudes post. It's stretching my window >:(
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: psymont on July 02, 2003, 09:39:03 PM
yup, flora is definitely a goner .... that was her sitting in her chair connecting to Schierke telepathically while on fire right? yup, a goner .... seems to have accepted her fate though ....
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Mizar on July 02, 2003, 10:33:09 PM
I refuse to believe that an experienced witch as Flora who's basically in control of all the elementals can really be defeated by the element of fire like that. And we don't see her being literally on fire, btw, you just see her sitting in a chair through the fire. I still say she's controlling the fire element herself, and I hope she's gonna unleash hell upon that bunch of apostles soon. SK and Guts can't possibly defeat a whole army of apostles including Zodd and Grunbeld on their own.

ps: Wereallmad, could you remove those unicode characters, it's messing up this thread. If you want to post in Japanese, you should switch to the Japanese font (not unicode) first right before you post. Like this:  ありがとう 
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: MangyKid Ver.4.5 on July 02, 2003, 10:37:47 PM
what do you think grunbelds true form would like like? jesus christ, it would crush the planet if he transformed! even though I know it would be some gay dragony thing, I can still hope he'll turn into an octupus that shoots lasers, and has six eyes, and shoots out baby octopi that are like the octoroks in zelda.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Wii wii wii on July 02, 2003, 10:49:41 PM
This thread is screwed up and it's stretching my god damn window ahh shit it hurts my eyes!
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: 6th Angel on July 02, 2003, 11:08:35 PM
Just because Grunbeld is huge doesn't mean he is unstoppable.  He could be real slow.  There is no way he is stronger then Zodd.  It would be hilarious if Skully just takes down Grunbeld right away next chapter.  He is just chillin on his horse while Guts is about to fight, skully and the apostles better not just sit back their lazyboys and watch.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Wii wii wii on July 02, 2003, 11:12:30 PM
Just because Grunbeld is huge doesn't mean he is unstoppable.  He could be real slow.  There is no way he is stronger then Zodd.  It would be hilarious if Skully just takes down Grunbeld right away next chapter.  He is just chillin on his horse while Guts is about to fight, skully and the apostles better not just sit back their lazyboys and watch.
It's funny but thats most likely what will happen.
(Someone please edit his post I will smother god if you don't)
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: korkor on July 02, 2003, 11:28:46 PM
I refuse to believe that an experienced witch as Flora who's basically in control of all the elementals can really be defeated by the element of fire like that. And we don't see her being literally on fire, btw, you just see her sitting in a chair through the fire. I still say she's controlling the fire element herself, and I hope she's gonna unleash hell upon that bunch of apostles soon. SK and Guts can't possibly defeat a whole army of apostles including Zodd and Grunbeld on their own.

ps: Wereallmad, could you remove those unicode characters, it's messing up this thread. If you want to post in Japanese, you should switch to the Japanese font (not unicode) first right before you post. Like this:  ありがとう 

hm...
a few chapters a go when skully jumps out of floras window it shows those mudd elementals getting ready to do some damage...
although not that strong, maybe they'll be able to stop the apostle army a little ..
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: xechnao on July 02, 2003, 11:43:23 PM
Arghhhh!!! Right now I am gonna take my sword and fight. At least I am gonna defend Guts. Anybody wanna come with me?
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Uriel on July 02, 2003, 11:44:00 PM
Thinking about the Golem's... if they continue to move, then surely that must mean Flora is alive to control them, right?
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: xechnao on July 02, 2003, 11:45:15 PM
No. If flora dies the protections on the mark of sacrifice won't last out, neither the armour's special bonuses should.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Aazealh on July 03, 2003, 12:10:00 AM
The protection of the mark is Schierke's doing, not Flora's, and Slann already wiped Guts' one.

And so far we don't know if the armor has "special bonuses" other than the talisman carved in it, which will obviously last after Flora's death anyway since she knew she was about to die a long time before she met Guts.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: xechnao on July 03, 2003, 12:50:55 AM
The protection of the mark is Schierke's doing, not Flora's, and Slann already wiped Guts' one.

And so far we don't know if the armor has "special bonuses" other than the talisman carved in it, which will obviously last after Flora's death anyway since she knew she was about to die a long time before she met Guts.

The argument was about golemns though.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Wereallmad on July 03, 2003, 01:26:18 AM
Ah, it worked, thanks mizar.

Anyway, it probably wasn't worth the effort since you can just read the Japanese off the scans, but I felt it was important, especially since my translation is pretty damn, er, 'rough'. I'll translate the rest later if someone who doesn't really know japanese wont do it.

page 14
Grunbeld: この者の相手

このグルンベルドにお任せ頂きたい
This aquiantance (really don't know the proper translation, I think he means Guts) of yours (referring to zodd), let me take care of it/him.

Guts: 巨人...!!??
A giant!!??

Zoddo: グルンベルド...

フ フ

良かろう

かたじけない

Grunbeld.....

heh heh

As you wish

I'm in your debt (or maybe he's saying Grunbeld is in HIS debt, like "you owe me", I'm not sure
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: puella on July 03, 2003, 02:14:25 AM
The argument was about golemns though.

Then what's this?  ::)
No. If flora dies the protections on the mark of sacrifice won't last out, neither the armour's special bonuses should.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: roberto999 on July 03, 2003, 02:43:04 AM
Thinking about the Golem's... if they continue to move, then surely that must mean Flora is alive to control them, right?
And where did we see them move in THIS issue? Last we did see them was in issue 222
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Saiki on July 03, 2003, 04:29:22 AM
Since everyone wants to know what the chit-chat on page 14 is about, I'll just quickly write whats going on.

Grunbeld - I would like you to let me be this one's opponent
Guts - "A giant...!!?"
Zodd - Grunbeld...hmph, very well
Grunbeld - I thank you
Grunbeld - I have heard about you. The black knight who hunts the apostle's. Even though you are human, you were able to survive the eclipse.
Grunbeld - Whatever kind of witch she may be, to attack an old one living in these peaceful woods with such a great number is far from an honorable thing for a warrior to do. But to prove my loyaty to the hawk, I asked that I be allowed to be assigned to this mission...

end of page 14

Anyways, it's pretty obvious that Grunbeld is not an apostle. An apostle would've said something like "we apostles", but he just said apostles.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: The Perineum Falcon on July 03, 2003, 04:32:20 AM
wow, that mustve been easy for you to do. how bout the rest, bud  ;D
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Walter on July 03, 2003, 04:33:07 AM
Anyways, it's pretty obvious that Grunbeld is not an apostle. An apostle would've said something like "we apostles", but he just said apostles.
Thanks for the much needed translation.  But... sorry, the above is just not enough confirmation for me. He'll be an apostle in my book until it's made more clear.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: theblakeman on July 03, 2003, 04:41:35 AM
Grunbeld seems like a good guy (a good guy as in honorable, not as in one of the good buys ;p) and I think that he will not be all brutal with Guts
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Smith on July 03, 2003, 06:40:01 AM
Grunbeld seems like a good guy (a good guy as in honorable, not as in one of the good buys ;p) and I think that he will not be all brutal with Guts

Maybe u mean he is not despicable, i dun think he is a good kind-hearted person either. He may try to be honourable by trying to defend helping people etc.

Secondly, i seriously dun think he will be gentle, dun forget Guts was hawk's enemies!

In the battle between Guts and Grunbeld, i really dun see any great chance that Guts will win, Grunbeld look too overwhelming...
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Uriel on July 03, 2003, 06:43:35 AM
Thanks for the translation for that Saiki, and like Ranemaka says, how bout the rest ;D I believe that Grenbeld is an apostle, because page 16 shows Guts brand still bleeding. However, would Guts of said "A giant?" if he didn't know he was an apostle?

And where did we see them move in THIS issue? Last we did see them was issue 222

It was a semi-speculation for future chapters.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: xechnao on July 03, 2003, 07:00:42 AM
Thanks for the translation for that Saiki, and like Ranemaka says, how bout the rest ;D I believe that Grenbeld is an apostle, because page 16 shows Guts brand still bleeding. However, would Guts of said "A giant?" if he didn't know he was an apostle?It was a semi-speculation for future chapters.

Guts says "a giant?" because he is big. What would he say?: "A big man?"
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Smith on July 03, 2003, 07:08:22 AM
because page 16 shows Guts brand still bleeding.

Dun forget there is still Zodd and other apostles around, so not a good evidence to assume Grunbeld is an apostle





*400th post*
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: xechnao on July 03, 2003, 07:16:23 AM
By the way I don't think Grunbeld's transformer has any wings or is able to fly. If so he could make Griffis' taxi very well at his reincarnation's first days but he doesn't even show up. Zodd shows up obviously because he can be an airoplane and can get to know all the great happenings due to his traveling possibility.
By the way Zodd is the only apostle we have info he lives an extended period of time. Maybe, I say maybe he is unique to this Nosferatu ability but then why, if so?
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Griffith on July 03, 2003, 07:27:29 AM
I don't think the brand bleeding means all that much considering Zoddo and his Apostle buddies are standing no more than five feet in front of Guts. It was also bleeding long before he got to the house. And even if Grunbeld causes the brand to bleed, that only proves he's spiritually akin to Apostles. However, I don't agree with Saiki that Grunbeld's choice of words necessarily rules him out as an Apostle (unless he understands something from the context of the Japanese that wouldn't come through in a direct English translation?). Though, the possibilities do excite me; Miura's expanded the Berserk universe immensely since  Millennium Falcon began and these "beyond Apostles" would certainly fit that trend.

And boy, he sure is tall, hyuck!

-Griffith

P.S. Whatever he is, I really do hope I get to see Miura draw a badass looking dragon somewhere down the line.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Walter on July 03, 2003, 08:04:37 AM

*400th post*
Maybe you'll shut up now to commemorate this great event?
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Mage on July 03, 2003, 10:39:49 AM
Maybe you'll shut up now to commemorate this great event?
(http://celica.net/ubb/graemlins/laugh.gif)
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Uriel on July 03, 2003, 12:11:15 PM
Maybe you'll shut up now to commemorate this great event?
Preach it.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: xechnao on July 03, 2003, 12:17:22 PM
Preach it.

And your next post is for you too.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Smith on July 03, 2003, 12:33:21 PM
Maybe you'll shut up now to commemorate this great event?

I will, by not by shutting up my mouth  ;D








Look like walter is always going against me...  8)
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Wereallmad on July 03, 2003, 01:30:17 PM
Guts says "a giant?" because he is big. What would he say?: "A big man?"

Technically that IS what he says. The kanji for big (giant), and the kanji for man side by side. You could even translate it as "a great man", though it's obvious what Guts is referring to.

However, I don't agree with Saiki that Grunbeld's choice of words necessarily rules him out as an Apostle (unless he understands something from the context of the Japanese that wouldn't come through in a direct English translation?)

I'm too lazy to look right now, but there are specific ways you reffer to your affiliation/in-group when speaking about them in Japanese. It's possible he spoke of them as if he were outside of that group.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Mizar on July 03, 2003, 02:18:07 PM
I'm too lazy to look right now, but there are specific ways you reffer to your affiliation/in-group when speaking about them in Japanese. It's possible he spoke of them as if he were outside of that group.

Not in this case, Grunbeld is just generally talking about "The Black Swordsman who hunts down (the) apostles". That's simply what Grunbeld has heard about Guts. It doesn't imply anything about Grunbeld himself, in my opinion.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Saiki on July 03, 2003, 03:34:52 PM
The reason I say that it's enough proof that Grunbeld is not an apostle is the way he is saying it.
If he were an apostle, he should've said it in the lines of
"Warera Shito wo katte mawarukuroi kenshi."
which means
"The blackswordsman who hunts us apostle's down."
But he just said, "The blackswordsman who hunts apostle's down."

Although Zodd says something similar in vol22 so Grunbeld just might be something like Zodd. I'm just hoping that Grunbeld is something different. ;D
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Uriel on July 03, 2003, 04:22:54 PM
He's just so regal and honourable, he talks in 3rd person. Simple.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Dark Wanderer on July 03, 2003, 04:30:03 PM
He's just so regal and honourable, he talks in 3rd person. Simple.

Like Azan?
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: toybitzz on July 03, 2003, 05:12:23 PM
He's just so regal and honourable, he talks in 3rd person. Simple.
That's all nice and sweet that you said that about the giant, but in the end, he still gonna die!
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Mizar on July 03, 2003, 06:55:53 PM
He's just so regal and honourable, he talks in 3rd person. Simple.

That's it! What do you say about that Saiki?

And wasn't it already established that Zodd was an apostle? I thought the little chat between him and Wyald had proven that beyond any doubt.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Wereallmad on July 03, 2003, 07:33:56 PM
That's it! What do you say about that Saiki?

And wasn't it already established that Zodd was an apostle? I thought the little chat between him and Wyald had proven that beyond any doubt.

Though I do think Zodd is probably an apostle, there is nothing about him that has been "proven beyond any doubt" besides the fact that he's big, ugly, and strong.

You've got to ask why did he kill Wyald? Is it likely that Godhand would have appeared to him and instructed him to do so? Do regular apostles even serve Godhand? It seems that Zoddo's actions were motivated by assuring Griffith reached the occultation. either for the purpose of serving Godhand or Griffith. With other apostles it seems more as though Godhand is merely something they must tolerate in order to retain their power.

At the occultation they were just waiting for Godhand to give them to initiative to slaughter, eat, and rape the hawks. Zoddo was compelled to do none of this, partly, I'm sure, because he knew Skully would appear and he wished to challenge his old foe, but also I think that Zoddo has none of the other drives apostles have. Every other apostle we've seen (with the exception of the Beherit apostle) has an insatiable desire for human flesh (both to eat and to violate), or a desire for power of some kind. They seem to be unable to do anything but gorge their senses. Zoddo, on the other hand, seeks only the strong. This is incredibly uncharacteristic of apostles. It's almost as if he alone (untill the introduction of Grunbeld, Locus, and perhaps Irvine) has the will to overcome his nature and pursue something he believes is greater than himself.

Does this mean he isn't an apostle? No, not nessesarily, but he and the new Hawks are definately not normal apostles.

This is why it wouldn't surprise me if Grunbeld were to really dissasociate himself from regular apostles.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Uriel on July 03, 2003, 08:18:27 PM
Though I do think Zodd is probably an apostle, there is nothing about him that has been "proven beyond any doubt" besides the fact that he's big, ugly, and strong.
I think this proves everything beyond doubt that he is an apostle.

(http://members.aol.com/Mhodge666/Berserk/vol22-zodd.jpg)
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Saiki on July 03, 2003, 08:38:11 PM
That's it! What do you say about that Saiki?

And wasn't it already established that Zodd was an apostle? I thought the little chat between him and Wyald had proven that beyond any doubt.

Grunbeld - I would like you to let me be this one's opponent
Guts - "A giant...!!?"
Zodd - Grunbeld...hmph, very well
Grunbeld - I thank you
Grunbeld - I have heard about you. The black knight who hunts the apostle's. Even though you are human, you were able to survive the eclipse.
Grunbeld - Whatever kind of witch she may be, to attack an old one living in these peaceful woods with such a great number is far from an honorable thing for a warrior to do. But to prove my loyaty to the hawk, I asked that I be allowed to be assigned to this mission...

I don't really see how he's talking in 3rd person........

And Zodd is an apostle btw. Zodd pretty much says this in vol13 when he's fighting Skully.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Mizar on July 03, 2003, 08:54:29 PM
I don't really see how he's talking in 3rd person........

Hmm.. I thought he was talking more like the Hulk or something. Like "Grunbeld is going to smash you!", "Grunbeld thanks you". That's 3rd person.

He's literally saying "This Grunbeld is going to blah blah...." all the time, and I thought that would not be translated as "I" (wouldn't he say "ore", or "watashi", instead?), but as "Grunbeld". Since you're Japanese, could you please explain this to Mizar? ;)
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Wereallmad on July 03, 2003, 08:55:29 PM
I think this proves everything beyond doubt that he is an apostle.

(http://members.aol.com/Mhodge666/Berserk/vol22-zodd.jpg)

I don't follow you.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Saiki on July 03, 2003, 09:12:26 PM
I translated those as "I" bcuz Grunbeld has used "watashi" b4.(look in vol23).
And if I were to translate it properly, i should be something like

Grunbeld - I, Grunbeld, would like you to let me be this one's opponent
Guts - "A giant...!!?"
Zodd - Grunbeld...hmph, very well
Grunbeld - thank you
Grunbeld - I have heard about you. The black knight who hunts the apostle's. Even though you are human, you were able to survive the eclipse.
Grunbeld - Whatever kind of witch she may be, to attack an old one living in these peaceful woods with such a great number is far from an honorable thing for a warrior to do. But to prove my loyaty to the hawk, I asked that I be allowed to be assigned to this mission...

and on the next page when he challenges Guts to a one on one duel, he says

I, Grunbeld, a warrior of the band of hawks, challenge you to a one on one duel.

So either way, he's not talking in 3rd person. Plus the fact that he doesn't talk that way in vol23
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Mizar on July 03, 2003, 09:39:05 PM
Ok, thanks Saiki, I see what you mean now.

But still, saying that he heard that Guts is the black swordsman who's been hunting down apostles doesn't have to imply anything about Grunbeld himself. He just says what he heard, that there's a man who hunts down apostles. I don't see the necessity to say "us apostles" if Grunbeld is indeed an apostle himself.

For example, let's say I'm a cop. And I've heard stories about a man who's been hunting down and killing all cops in the world. Now I meet this man, and I say: "So you're the man who's been killing all the cops?"
Now you want to tell me I couldn't have said this to him since I'm a cop myself?
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: xechnao on July 03, 2003, 09:39:10 PM
Jesus Christ I think you are mad.
"I have heard about you. The black knight who hunts the apostle's"

Second sentence serves as an adjective to the "you" of the first. It doesn't matter if he says "us" or not, it's the same thing exactly over here. He could have said "us" but it will sound rather complicated* and long* as a frase you announce in a moment of real action: a real duel ready to begin. They don't perform Shekspire on a theater stage, they are about and anticipating to smash one's other's heads.

*thus unrealistic
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Mizar on July 03, 2003, 09:43:41 PM
I don't follow you.

I think it was an attempt at sarcasm.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: xechnao on July 03, 2003, 09:45:19 PM
Bsides it's:
"Salve Ceaser, i moritori tua ts saluta"
 and not
"Salve Ceaser, "us", i moritori tua ti saluta"

And even more this is somewhat theatrical you know on the stage of Colloseum.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: roberto999 on July 03, 2003, 10:21:28 PM
It is "Ave Cesare, morituri te salutant" "Hail o Caesar the ones that are about to die salute you". But in that case not everyone would die , only the losers and sometimes at them too could be granted their life if the Caesar was in a good mood. however I too think that even if Grunbeld has not said "us" doesn't mean that he is not an apostle. That said... he really could not be an apostle ( the kind created by the beherit that is)
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: xechnao on July 03, 2003, 10:43:15 PM
It is "Ave Cesare, morituri te salutant" "Hail o Caesar the ones that are about to die salute you". But in that case not everyone would die , only the losers and sometimes at them too could be granted their life if the Caesar was in a good mood. however I too think that even if Grunbeld has not said "us" doesn't mean that he is not an apostle. That said... he really could not be an apostle ( the kind created by the beherit that is)

When I saw your name in the panel as last post of the thread I knew I was gona to see that.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: puella on July 03, 2003, 10:44:49 PM
Though we can't be sure yet whether Grunbeld is an apostle or not, I think it would be so interesting if some of Griffith's minions are not apostles but only human beings. :)


*** But I personally think Grunbeld is an apostle.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: krebs4life on July 03, 2003, 11:39:23 PM
well considering the overall abundance of apostles, it really doesnt seem that far-fetched that all of griff's new friends are infact apostles.

and regarding the sentence in question, the major subject of the sentence is guts, its not grunbeld or the apostles.
think of it as grunbeld is addressing guts with a title "The Black Swordsman who hunts apostles" kinda like "The Black Swordsman: The Apostle Hunter" or "King Charles the great"
grunbeld seems to be semi-honorable, and titles were important in the days of old, granted this is only a fiction tale taking place in a quasi-medieval era
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Griffith on July 04, 2003, 12:43:00 AM
I'm just hoping that Grunbeld is something different. ;D

OUT OF THE SHADOWS THEY COME

(http://www.skullknight.net/yabbimages/avatars/locus.jpg) (http://www.skullknight.net/yabbimages/avatars/irvine.gif) (http://www.skullknight.net/yabbimages/avatars/griff.jpg) (http://www.skullknight.net/yabbimages/avatars/rakushas.jpg) (http://www.skullknight.net/yabbimages/avatars/dragonknight.jpg)

THE LEAGUE OF EXTRAORDINARY GENTLEMEN
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Olivier Hague on July 04, 2003, 12:48:05 AM
The reason I say that it's enough proof that Grunbeld is not an apostle is the way he is saying it.
'Doesn't mean anything, really... ^^;
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: SexyCharlotte on July 04, 2003, 03:51:54 AM
Hey! There's some of my favorite guys...;) Irvine, Rakshas, Moonlight Knight Locus...can't forget MH Griff there...sighhhhhhhhhhh


LG
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: SexyCharlotte on July 04, 2003, 03:54:26 AM
well considering the overall abundance of apostles, it really doesnt seem that far-fetched that all of griff's new friends are infact apostles.

and regarding the sentence in question, the major subject of the sentence is guts, its not grunbeld or the apostles.
think of it as grunbeld is addressing guts with a title "The Black Swordsman who hunts apostles" kinda like "The Black Swordsman: The Apostle Hunter" or "King Charles the great"
grunbeld seems to be semi-honorable, and titles were important in the days of old, granted this is only a fiction tale taking place in a quasi-medieval era

Or Guts the Lion-Hearted

King Gaiseric= Julius Caesar

LG
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Genn21 on July 04, 2003, 04:03:52 AM
'Doesn't mean anything, really... ^^;

Hey maybe he isnt a apostle but just another hard ass. Jhesh the mere existance of Guts tells us how strong a man can be in miura's world if he put's his mind to it. Then again if he was an apostle that would'nt suprise the masses either.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: korkor on July 04, 2003, 04:54:55 AM
a) if his not an apostole how would he know of the eclipse?
b) why would other apostoles be in contact with him?

plus everytime they show his face im reminded of the snake count  :P
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: psymont on July 04, 2003, 05:41:35 AM
plus everytime they show his face im reminded of the snake count  :P

you stole the words right out of my fingers ....
i think its the eyes ....
also his open faced helmet ....
i feel a big transformation coming on ....
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: secilj on July 04, 2003, 06:03:43 AM
OUT OF THE SHADOWS THEY COME

(http://www.skullknight.net/yabbimages/avatars/locus.jpg) (http://www.skullknight.net/yabbimages/avatars/irvine.gif) (http://www.skullknight.net/yabbimages/avatars/griff.jpg) (http://www.skullknight.net/yabbimages/avatars/rakushas.jpg) (http://www.skullknight.net/yabbimages/avatars/dragonknight.jpg)

THE LEAGUE OF EXTRAORDINARY GENTLEMEN

Griffith, you missed Zodd the bully.  ;D
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: *Gyom* on July 04, 2003, 06:22:44 AM
a) if his not an apostole how would he know of the eclipse?
b) why would other apostoles be in contact with him?

plus everytime they show his face im reminded of the snake count  :P
a)flora and all withces/sorcerers, skully and guts do know about it...
b)because giants are strong

anyway among the new Hawks, I'd say Grunbeld and Irvine are the more expected to be apostles (seing them in the apostle's woods)... in the same time, they look and act differently (but Zoddo as well...)
so imo, Rackshas is a Rackshas, Locus is whatever-he-is-we'll-see-later, hummm but for Grunbeld it's a 50-50% i'd say.

Let the time do its work and in one week we'll have more info.^^
Guil
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Smith on July 04, 2003, 09:20:00 AM
Though we can't be sure yet whether Grunbeld is an apostle or not, I think it would be so interesting if some of Griffith's minions are not apostles but only human beings. :)


*** But I personally think Grunbeld is an apostle.

Unless u mean those recruits from Midland and Kushan army... Else i think virtually all of them are apostles!

From my point of view i dont think Grunbeld is an apostle (he maybe something even greater than that  8)), of coz he is not human either... (not that size!)
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: puella on July 04, 2003, 09:33:39 PM
The transalation of 223 is up here soon. It is waiting for some procedure at the airport. ;D
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Dark Wanderer on July 04, 2003, 09:59:15 PM
b)because giants are strong

Nope, they're stupid  :P

(http://www.hermanhedning.com/figurer/jatten.jpg)
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: korkor on July 05, 2003, 12:32:14 AM
hm...
actually since Grunbeld  doesnt seem the be the only giant around, maybe there really is some sort of giant race :P
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Ger24 on July 05, 2003, 02:08:50 PM
Wow! Great Chapter Miura's really moving the story along really fast, I thought Guts was going to face Griffith's army later on. The new armor looks awsome, but Guts would look weird int that helmet.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Smith on July 05, 2003, 02:34:20 PM
The new armor looks awsome, but Guts would look weird int that helmet.

He might be the next Skullknight  8)
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Wii wii wii on July 06, 2003, 11:04:52 PM
He might be the next Skullknight  8)
That would be horrible :P
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: krebs4life on July 07, 2003, 01:40:34 AM
ah but it is fully capable within the bounds of time, considering time is a spiral
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Majin Tenshi on July 07, 2003, 02:09:36 AM
maybe not a skullknight but perhaps a skullswordsman

remember, time is a spiral, not a loop.  It resembles itself but doesn't repeat.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: The Perineum Falcon on July 07, 2003, 03:20:27 AM
its great to see that you guys know your shit, demonstrating that fact by repeating it right after each other. congrats.

what is time again??
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Majin Tenshi on July 07, 2003, 04:22:06 AM
I just felt like restateing it in a way I felt made more sense.  You gotta problem with that bub?  
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: krebs4life on July 07, 2003, 04:32:26 PM
its great to see that you guys know your shit, demonstrating that fact by repeating it right after each other. congrats.

what is time again??

this coming from the same guy who thought that Skully's horse was the one with the enlarged canines and not his armor

wow man, im truly honored
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: The Perineum Falcon on July 07, 2003, 07:52:05 PM
this coming from the same guy who thought that Skully's horse was the one with the enlarged canines and not his armor

wow man, im truly honored

i never claimed his horse had enlarged canines you fuckwit.
and it was a stupid joke anyway.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: psymont on July 07, 2003, 08:06:20 PM
enough of this bafoonish banter! >:(

when is 224 coming out?
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: The Perineum Falcon on July 07, 2003, 08:49:01 PM
since no one recalls a date being in 223 as to the release of 224, we're assuming itll be this friday. lets see how it goes.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: SaiyajinNoOuji on July 07, 2003, 09:44:31 PM
I'll be in main land Japan Friday so I will try to get a copy of it and force my woman to translate it! Hopefully it works out!  ;D
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: The Perineum Falcon on July 07, 2003, 09:50:54 PM
ohh, you big tease...
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: puella on July 08, 2003, 05:38:00 AM
Will we see Serpco join the fight? or he will just be busy rescuing Flora? ::)
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Uriel on July 08, 2003, 12:26:41 PM
Will we see Serpco join the fight? or he will just be busy rescuing Flora? ::)
I don't think he'd of much use really. Sure, he could pick a few Demon Soldiers off.. but I think he'll let Guts do his thing.

Can someone remind me where Casca and Farnese are?
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Griffith on July 08, 2003, 01:29:04 PM
Can someone remind me where Casca and Farnese are?

Funny, I was just thinking the exact same thing. But, I assume Guts told Farnese and Casca to stay behind at the end of 222. Can someone who reads Japanese copnfirm this, please?

-Griffith

P.S. Hmmm, it'll be interesting to see if Serpico's weapons are as effective on Apostles as they are on Trolls. I'd hate to see Grunfeld fall at the swing of a feather. =)
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: trapped_soul on July 08, 2003, 01:50:25 PM
Hmmm, it'll be interesting to see if Serpico's weapons are as effective on Apostles as they are on Trolls. I'd hate to see Grunfeld fall at the swing of a feather. =)

Yet Miura could make it appear quite spectacular, don't you think? ^^;

-TS
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Mizar on July 08, 2003, 03:41:16 PM
Funny, I was just thinking the exact same thing. But, I assume Guts told Farnese and Casca to stay behind at the end of 222. Can someone who reads Japanese copnfirm this, please?

Confirmed. ;D
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Smith on July 09, 2003, 08:50:16 AM

Can someone remind me where Casca and Farnese are?

Is there a chance that they have already been captured by the demon soldier?
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: SaiyajinNoOuji on July 09, 2003, 09:38:02 PM
It's a possibility..I guess some of us will find out tomorrow since over here in the land of the rising sun, the new chapter will hopefully come out.  ;)
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: QUeeN typhonblue on July 10, 2003, 12:32:29 AM
Woo Hoo!

And here's a big, sloppy kiss for being such a sweet heart and scanning the last chapter.

 :-*
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: korkor on July 10, 2003, 06:37:06 AM
wouldnt guts see some apostles or something going towards casca and Farnese as he was running towards the hut?
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Smith on July 10, 2003, 08:09:07 AM
It's a possibility..I guess some of us will find out tomorrow since over here in the land of the rising sun, the new chapter will hopefully come out.  ;)

SaiyajinNoOuji, do u intend to have 223 posted in your website? 224 is almost out and u are still in 222!
 ???
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Walter on July 10, 2003, 08:33:05 AM
SaiyajinNoOuji, do u intend to have 223 posted in your website? 224 is almost out and u are still in 222!
 ???
This kid keeps amazing me.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Majin Tenshi on July 10, 2003, 01:16:16 PM
I Knew that the chapter was out because the usual guy had it too ;D
http://homepage1.nifty.com/bluestone/berserk/animal/ya223.html (http://homepage1.nifty.com/bluestone/berserk/animal/ya223.html)
http://homepage1.nifty.com/bluestone/berserk/animal/ya224.html
wait a sec, doesn't this guy usualy have sumaries a little before the chapter is out? Is he slacking or is there no chapter this week?
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: roberto999 on July 10, 2003, 01:23:39 PM
I did control it just a second ago too.  ;D For now nothing
But continue to keep an eye on him: I suspect that an unstranslatable summary is not far ;D ;D
A little aside :the guy has already put the link at chapter 224, but the link is not active yet.

HE CANNOT DO THIS TO US !!!
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Clutch on July 10, 2003, 02:02:00 PM
Our ace at Nifty.com is generally punctual with his summaries. I take the lack of a gibberish babel fish translation by this late in the week as an ominous sign.


Title: Re:I was right 224 is here
Post by: roberto999 on July 10, 2003, 02:07:04 PM
Finally:
http://homepage1.nifty.com/bluestone/berserk/animal/ya224.html (http://homepage1.nifty.com/bluestone/berserk/animal/ya224.html)
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Majin Tenshi on July 10, 2003, 02:13:13 PM
good, I was getting worried.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Dark Wanderer on July 10, 2003, 04:16:57 PM
"Shiruke, Serpico & Isidro VS The apostles.."

This will be an exciting chapter  ;D
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: SaiyajinNoOuji on July 10, 2003, 10:46:44 PM
SaiyajinNoOuji, do u intend to have 223 posted in your website? 224 is almost out and u are still in 222!
 ???

Dude! Look in the 5th page of this thread. You will see my link!
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Walter on July 10, 2003, 11:04:41 PM
Suprisingly, that Babelfish translation wasn't that hard to decipher for once.  

From what I caught, Guts and Isidro are getting the armor for Guts and run into some apostles. Guts VS Grunbeld is going badly, thanks to Slan's wound, and Skull Knight faces against Zodd while fending off the Apostles who want Flora's head.

Where's The Hague ?
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Uriel on July 10, 2003, 11:11:48 PM
Where's The Hague ?
Doing some last minute  touches to the drawings no doubt.
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: QUeeN typhonblue on July 10, 2003, 11:36:58 PM
Gah! Ha Ha. Never mind. ;D
Title: Re:Episode 223
Post by: Smith on July 11, 2003, 08:26:17 AM
Dude! Look in the 5th page of this thread. You will see my link!

Oops :P, i think i elaborate wrongly. I mean the current link on the left section of ur website. I m trying to ask if u hv finish the colour scan...