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Skullknight.net => Site & Forum News => Encyclopedia: Q&A => Topic started by: Walter on April 21, 2006, 03:16:52 AM

Title: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Walter on April 21, 2006, 03:16:52 AM
Chung's fight summaries reminded me of a project I'd started several months ago, a list of all of Guts' kills: who/what they were, and when they took place.  I'd given up on this a while back due to the sheer boredom this project summons up.  It's a pretty painstaking process.

Anyway, here's the list: GUTS' KILL ROSTER (http://skullknight.net/roster)

This list includes all on-screen kills that Guts was responsible for.  That means, if his sword was swinging THROUGH someone, it counts.  If, in the next panel, there are a display of bodies, each one with blood, or an identifiable injury, and Guts was directly responsible for their deaths, counts.

If you see any that I missed, please by all means help the cause out.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many people has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Some Guy on April 21, 2006, 03:46:49 AM
The four bandits you listed killed on page 15 are in fact the same two bandits.  Notice how they look and have arrows in the same areas.

On page 63 I count 5 Koka Cavalry killed.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many people has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Walter on April 21, 2006, 03:57:41 AM
The four bandits you listed killed on page 15 are in fact the same two bandits.  Notice how they look and have arrows in the same areas.

On page 63 I count 5 Koka Cavalry killed.
Well that's a bad start isn't it =).  Hopefully I overshot on other areas, and Guts can keep his 100-man slayer title.

Thanks for the updates.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many people has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Some Guy on April 21, 2006, 04:03:03 AM
Vol. 1

Guts cut off the hands of a guard to save Puck in 197 who is last seen bleeding heavily in 198.

I count 5 guards killed on page 193

Vol. 2

Guts kills 2 watchmen with his knives on page 165

Page 173 is hard to tell.  There appear to be more than 5 being killed, but some of the flying body parts may have been from the first swing.  The Spearman missing a portion of his face may count as 6.

It looks like two soldier being killed on page 174

Vol. 4

Guts kills a mercenary on pg 21

Vol. 7

Guts kills 2 mercenaries on page 47

kills 3 on pg 55

kills one on pg 102
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many people has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Walter on April 21, 2006, 04:12:40 AM
I count 5 guards killed on page 193

Also, Guts cut off the hands of a guard to save Puck in 197 who is last seen bleeding heavily in 198.
I counted him, I think. I generally counted anyone who looked like they'd bleed to death by the next episode XD

Btw, just keep all the updates in one post, thanks for the help!  I'm just going to renumber them when we're completley finished. Renumbering these things is... time consuming.

Quote
Page 173 is hard to tell.  There appear to be more than 5 being killed, but some of the flying body parts may have been from the first swing.  The Spearman missing a portion of his face may count as 6.
I stand by my original count of 5.  Here's my justification. (http://skullknight.net/images/pg173.jpg)

Quote
Vol. 4

Guts kills a mercenary on pg 21
Argh, how could I have missed that. It was in my notes... Thanks again though.

Checking through vol. 5 now, and I came across one of the more complicated pages.  After doing a test on it in photoshop, I came up with this and realized my numbers were off by a whopping 2 (http://skullknight.net/images/pg99.jpg). Geez...

Vol. 7

Guts kills 2 mercenaries on page 47
I thought about this one for a while and... I dunno if I can count that. The guy on top looks pretty heavy, but technically Guts didn't even touch the little guy.  It's in the "MAYBE" zone for now. I'm really going back and forth ... I need another opinion.

Quote
kills 3 on pg 55
Another great example of me asking myself: "how the hell did I miss that?" Geez, thanks again.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many people has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Griffith on April 21, 2006, 04:27:13 AM
This is a great project. I say after it's finished, you make all kinds of crazy lists like alleged kills, such as the 77 other Tudor mercs Guts was supposed to have killed in the 100 man fight.

Also, shouldn't we be taking bets on this? I'd call about 400 right based on the numbers thus far (my gut instinct, har har, says 500 though), except I think Guts will start to slow down in later volumes (not in a war, less human killing, more big fish and Apostle hunting), unless you're counting all of Roshinu's horde. The numbers could skyrocket! He basically committed genocide. The burning barn alone should be a blast to count, and I just reviewed some pages of Guts swinging into a giant swarm of them covering the DS with bug squishy on a few occasions. Good luck, BTW. =)

P.S. I call 500. =)
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many people has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Walter on April 21, 2006, 08:26:30 PM
I'm really starting to wonder... should the bees in Lost Children count?
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many people has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Chung on April 21, 2006, 09:03:10 PM
Well his sword didn't slice THROUGH them technically, but he did kill them. So according to your rule, they should be included, if one can count them at all.
And shouldn't the sceletons count as well? (The ones Guts "killed" after cleaving Colette)
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many people has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Griffith on April 21, 2006, 09:03:22 PM
I'm really starting to wonder... should the bees in Lost Children count?

YES! If you don't count them you can't count any Apostle spawn, and even Apostles come into question at that point. What, are you wussing out?
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many people has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Walter on April 21, 2006, 09:06:42 PM
And shouldn't the sceletons count as well? (The ones Guts "killed" after cleaving Colette)
You can't kill what's already dead.  Guts just destroys the bodies that the ghosts possess. Then again... ghosts are dispersed from human bodies too. Hmmm... I'll think on it.  It's starting to get complicated.

YES! If you don't count them you can't count any Apostle spawn, and even Apostles come into question at that point. What, are you wussing out?
Argh... fine fine. Hey Knight o' Skeleton, got some free time?  :guts:
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many people has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Chung on April 21, 2006, 09:37:41 PM
You can't kill what's already dead.  Guts just destroys the bodies that the ghosts possess.
Doesn't that apply to Colette too?  :carcus:
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many people has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Walter on April 21, 2006, 09:46:10 PM
Doesn't that apply for Colette too?  :carcus:
Oh yeah, I forgot she had died. My bad.  I'll omit her. 

Anyway, I figured out a good reasoning: Artificial life doesn't count.  If Skeletons/Snowmen led lives past dawn, I might reconsider.  But since they'd die anyway at sun-up, and will just continue to reinhabit other skeletons/snow until then, I can't count them.

THIS JUST IN: EVERYTHING GUTS KILLS "ON-SCREEN" COUNTS. That includes Ghosts, Possessions (skeleton, snowmen, etc.), Apostles, Incubi, Ogre etc.  It's the only way this list will be complete.  Miura included other species and types of life, I should respect both his and Guts time in this whole series.  Time to recount!

PS: I'm going to rebuild the list with PHP. This effectively will include all kills, or show only humans etc. so all the different rules can apply, depending on how you want to count them.

Just don't expect it to be done anytime soon...  :guts:
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many people has he REALLY killed?
Post by: CnC on April 21, 2006, 11:54:45 PM
That includes Ghosts, Possessions (skeleton, snowmen, etc.), Apostles, Succubi, Ogre etc.  It's the only way this list will be complete.  Miura included other species and types of life, I should respect both his and Guts time in this whole series.  Time to recount!

Can you technically "kill" the ghosts?
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many people has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Walter on April 21, 2006, 11:59:57 PM
Can you technically "kill" the ghosts?

Well, technically only the sun can send them away. But take volume 23 for example.  Guts deserves some credit for that work.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many people has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Rhombaad on April 22, 2006, 12:18:17 AM
This is the best...idea...ever.  But man is it going to take a while if you're now including everything Guts has destroyed "on-screen."  Should make for a fun read. :guts:
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many people has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Walter on April 22, 2006, 12:23:55 AM
This is the best...idea...ever.  But man is it going to take a while if you're now including everything Guts has destroyed "on-screen."  Should make for a fun read. :guts:
It's really not that difficult to count, it's entering the data in an efficient and time-manageable way that time-consuming.  I have to learn PHP for this thing, for chrissake!  I actually have vol 1-10 categorized with #/name/vol/ep/type of being in an Excel File now.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many people has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Chung on April 22, 2006, 12:48:25 AM
Just thought I'd mention this one, since it's pretty easy to overlook IMHO.

(http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/7758/fish3oa.jpg)
(Volume 14 episode 93 page 35)

And there was also that scene in Volume 15 where Guts was eating that Snake, but that one was dead already, i think.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many people has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Rhombaad on April 22, 2006, 12:49:12 AM
Just thought I'd mention this one, since it's pretty easy to overlook IMHO.

Your attention to detail is impeccable, my friend. :void:
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Griffith on April 22, 2006, 01:16:56 AM
Don't worry, I'm watching out for animals. I remembered the snake, and the fish from volume 23 and such. This is fun, actually. =)
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: CnC on April 22, 2006, 01:26:14 AM
it is an interesting project... I'll give it that...  :guts:
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Chung on April 22, 2006, 01:28:07 AM
Don't worry, I'm watching out for animals.

I kinda knew you would  :guts:

Hehe, nit-picking is always more fun then doing the actual work, I guess :troll:

Anyway, Guts also kills several wolves in Volume 4 starting at page 78, ( I counted 6 in total, 2 on 78, 80 and 81)
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many people has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Some Guy on April 22, 2006, 03:19:40 AM
Argh... fine fine. Hey Knight o' Skeleton, got some free time?  :guts:

Sure do. :miura:

Also why were the assassins that were holding Foss's daughter captive counted (since we don't actually see Guts kill them, they just appear dead in the next frame)

I got a couple more:

In Volume 2, Guts kills two gravediggers on pg 115, and Guts caused Dahl to die on pg 221

Also, Wyald is listed as a human.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many people has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Walter on April 22, 2006, 03:32:19 AM
Sure do. :miura:

Also why were the assassins that were holding Foss's daughter captive counted (since we don't actually see Guts kill them, they just appear dead in the next frame)
Well, we've always counted those. "If, in the next panel, there are a display of bodies, each one with blood, or an identifyable injury, count." Anyway, the rules have changed a bit to be more flexible.  Now, anything Guts was responsible for killing goes in.  Here's an updated list, using Excel now:

http://skullknight.net/encyclopedia/gutskillroster.htm
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Griffith on April 22, 2006, 05:15:59 AM
Well, I'm doing the Lost Children chapter right now and it's a fucking holocaust. Guts easily kills over a hundred kids alone in this arc!

And then he kills their ghosts. =)
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Some Guy on April 22, 2006, 05:49:56 AM
Well, we've always counted those. "If, in the next panel, there are a display of bodies, each one with blood, or an identifyable injury, count." Anyway, the rules have changed a bit to be more flexible.  Now, anything Guts was responsible for killing goes in.
Whoops, must have missed that.  Sorry

Well, I'm doing the Lost Children chapter right now and it's a fucking holocaust. Guts easily kills over a hundred kids alone in this arc!

And then he kills their ghosts. =)

Haha...

I tried counting the "elves" Guts kills at the end of Vol. 14 (which wasn't easy) .  Interested to see what you come up with.  Good Luck!
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Walter on April 22, 2006, 08:49:13 AM
That's all we're doing for the night... Give Griff a fucking HAND for all the insane counting he did tonight. He tackled the entirety of Lost Children by himself; a feat I certainly didn't think was possible.  I think we'll both need a break after this.  What a loooooong night it's been.

Here's the list, now including v.1-31. (http://skullknight.net/encyclopedia/gutskillroster.htm)
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: CnC on April 22, 2006, 01:18:22 PM
Well, I'm doing the Lost Children chapter right now and it's a fucking holocaust. Guts easily kills over a hundred kids alone in this arc!

And then he kills their ghosts. =)

yea thats bound to be a tough one...  are you counting all the corpses in the barn?  ouch
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: JIN on April 22, 2006, 03:45:19 PM
That's all we're doing for the night... Give Griff a fucking HAND for all the insane counting he did tonight. He tackled the entirety of Lost Children by himself; a feat I certainly didn't think was possible. I think we'll both need a break after this. What a loooooong night it's been.

Applause and Cheers :chomp:

This is a great thread. Thanks guys! If another artbook is released a list like this should be included.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Some Guy on April 22, 2006, 08:02:31 PM
That's all we're doing for the night... Give Griff a fucking HAND for all the insane counting he did tonight. He tackled the entirety of Lost Children by himself; a feat I certainly didn't think was possible.  I think we'll both need a break after this.  What a loooooong night it's been.

Here's the update, now including v.1-21. (http://skullknight.net/encyclopedia/gutskillroster.htm)

Wow, great job!  It looks like his kills will exceed 1000 :guts:

Also, if I find any more that aren't listed, I'll notify you via PM
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Walter on April 22, 2006, 09:17:38 PM
Wow, great job!  It looks like his kills will exceed 1000 :guts:
Yep, worked on it today and Guts broke 1000 with a questionable Troll in Vol.26 pg 50. Even if those questionable 8 get discarded, the kills in the end of the volume make up for it.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Casan on April 22, 2006, 10:15:57 PM
That's all we're doing for the night... Give Griff a fucking HAND for all the insane counting he did tonight.

I do, to everyone who has helped out with this. This is some insane dedication you guys are showing. It's awesome  :isidro:
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: IsolatioN on April 23, 2006, 12:49:57 AM
Aww, I really would of loved to help but you have already exceeded past my volumes (up to 100 :( )

So the best I can do is salute those who have the dedication to this! Man, you guys are true fans  :guts:
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Walter on April 23, 2006, 01:37:50 AM
Aww, I really would of loved to help but you have already exceeded past my volumes (up to 100 :( )

So the best I can do is salute those who have the dedication to this! Man, you guys are true fans  :guts:
I guess you mean 10. But, we still need people to check and verify the information in the roster.  Volumes 1-8 have been checked about 3x now, but none of 10 has been given a second check though.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: IsolatioN on April 23, 2006, 01:52:51 AM
Woops, hehe. Guess 100 is a lot isn't it? Well I did mean ten.

I'll gladly give a second run-through of ten if you would like. I'm not doing anything right now so why not?
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Borgoff on April 23, 2006, 05:02:51 AM
If, in the next panel, there are a display of bodies, each one with blood, or an identifyable injury, and Guts was directly responsible for their deaths, counts.

I'm sure if you were to ask Gambino he would put Shizu on the list.  :carcus:
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Walter on April 23, 2006, 05:10:46 AM
I'm sure if you were to ask Gambino he would put Shizu on the list.  :carcus:
Yeah, I actually joked about that earlier with Griff.  I even considered the possibility that Guts may have been carrying a contagion XD But, we all know it's horseshit  :guts:

Speaking of horseshit, there are still 2 "items/jokes" that have been brought up by people through PM/IM that I refuse to put in the list:

-The logs that Guts chops down for his training in the mountains during the flashback in volume 11.

-Guts' own arm, which becomes a distinct object the moment he hacks it off.

Should they stay or go?

Other than the above, it seems we've pretty much got everything now, volume 1 to the current episode. Waiting to see who takes Daiba down  :guts: Now, I'm just double/triple/quadruple checking the manga, and implementing changes as they roll in.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Borgoff on April 23, 2006, 05:18:30 AM
I think anything with some remote form of a conciousness should count. Maybe Guts' arm will come back as an apostle so he can add one more notch to his resume.  :troll:
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: NTSC-J on April 24, 2006, 11:55:22 AM
It's funny, last week I started a list like this but the grey areas started to stack up and I dropped it. There are a few volumes where Guts doesn't harm a soul, then there's episodes like the 100-man battle, Griffith's rescue and the Lost Children. I was having a hard time with the eclipse Hawk slaughter...the apostles that Guts appears to have mortally wounded often had more than one head. Also, there are a couple years with the Hawks that aren't chronicled at all, so there's no telling how many Guts took down in that time. Busy guy.

I think Guts has definitely graduated from the "Century Slayer" to the "Millenium Falcon" by now tho.

Edit: Just noticed on the list that Wyald is listed, but Zodd was the one that killed him.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Lithrael on April 24, 2006, 01:28:48 PM
Holy crap.  A fine document indeed. 

(wow)
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Proj2501 on April 24, 2006, 01:57:28 PM
 :isidro: That many?!
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: CnC on April 24, 2006, 02:18:13 PM
-The logs that Guts chops down for his training in the mountains during the flashback in volume 11.

-Guts' own arm, which becomes a distinct object the moment he hacks it off.

Should they stay or go?


Since the logs are already dead trees, they prob. shouldn't count (but then again you _are_ counting ghosts...)
But keep in mind you're probably opening a whole new can of worms when you start counting the flora Guts has killed.  Think of all the work you'd be giving Griffith in the Lost Children arc.

As for the arm... is that a kill?  Its a "loss", but not really a kill.  Again.  you count THAT arm, might as well count the rest of the severed limbs.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Walter on April 24, 2006, 03:08:54 PM
Since the logs are already dead trees, they prob. shouldn't count (but then again you _are_ counting ghosts...)
The trees were alive until he chopped them down. I'm sure he didn't just find some conveniently chopped trees laying around.  Think of it from Schierke's perspective.  Remember her reaction to all those wooden ships in the docks of Vritannis? What would she say if she knew her beloved Guts killed innocent trees?  :judo: 

As for the ghosts, it's definitely more grey area, but I was convinced by the effort Guts puts into scattering their "bodies" when he slashes them. Since only the sun can truly dispel them, Guts would be getting gypped if he didn't get some credit for holding them off.

The final decision on most of these grey areas was to include everything, so that in the final list, people can sort it however they like.  In the roster's final form, if users don't think something qualifies as a kill, they'll be able to remove it from the final calculation.

Quote
As for the arm... is that a kill?  Its a "loss", but not really a kill.  Again.  you count THAT arm, might as well count the rest of the severed limbs.
Yeah, I was never seriously considering counting the arm. I just wanted a general concensus on why it shouldn't be counted.  Personally, I like Borgoff's "consciousness" bit, though even that's pretty debatable with some of the creatures in the series. 

...the apostles that Guts appears to have mortally wounded often had more than one head. Also, there are a couple years with the Hawks that aren't chronicled at all, so there's no telling how many Guts took down in that time. Busy guy.

Edit: Just noticed on the list that Wyald is listed, but Zodd was the one that killed him.
All apostles, specifically Wyald and the Count took some consideration before their inclusion.  Ultimately though, Guts put those two in positions where they were vulnerable enough to be killed... so, it's indeed grey area.  As for the apostles at the eclipse and at Flora's Mansion, it's too difficult to say what happened to them, so I included them "just in case."
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Borgoff on April 24, 2006, 06:19:37 PM
I think a line should be drawn somewhere. The trees are a bit much. Pretty soon we'll be counting all the cells in his immune system. :carcus: All the same, I think you guys did an amazingly thorough job. To link it back to Chung's fight thread...you could include some pictures of memorable death stabs. Maybe even a brief description or something. Very cool stuff guys. :zodd:
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Griffith on April 24, 2006, 06:35:27 PM
I can understanding giving credit of a kill when the ghosts posess a living creature and that creature gets killed, but the hopeless struggle against the ghosts (in that they can never truly be "killed") is part of the story.

But not part of this kill roster. Anyway, Guts doesn't just swing right through them like they aren't there. They break in half and ghost guts come flying out of them for goodness sake. And like you say, we DON'T know exactly what happens to them. For all we know, he can banish them but more keep coming until the sun rises. Also, this is a casualty count, not a referendum on the meaning of life and death.

No matter how many times Guts sends them away I don't think they're ever banished or sent to another plane.  I suppose that can't be proven either way but I think assigning any credit for a "kill" on the ghosts would be odd.

So you've said, and like you also say, based on what, your feelings about ghosts?

Shut up, you hippies. =)

P.S. CnC's post was destroyed in a mishap, but you can read most of it in the quotes above. Whoops, sorry C. :casca:
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Aazealh on April 24, 2006, 06:42:16 PM
I think a line should be drawn somewhere. The trees are a bit much.

And the fish in the waterfall isn't? The one Casca eats at the beginning of volume 23 should also count.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: CnC on April 24, 2006, 07:08:03 PM
But not part of this kill roster. Anyway, Guts doesn't just swing right through them like they aren't there. They break in half and ghost guts come flying out of them for goodness sake. And like you say, we DON'T know exactly what happens to them. For all we know, he can banish them but more keep coming until the sun rises. Also, this is a casualty count, not a referendum on the meaning of life and death.

So you've said, and like you also say, based on what, your feelings about ghosts? Shut up, you hippies. =)

CnC, you jackass.  Of course its not supposed to be referendum on the meaning of life and death.  Just counting ghosts being cut in half as a casualty is redundant.

Jeez, must you criticise EVERYTHING?  I like the site, but CnC, you're just _too_ much, man...
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Chung on April 24, 2006, 07:34:07 PM
And the fish in the waterfall isn't? The one Casca eats at the beginning of volume 23 should also count.


I think since you never see Guts actually catching them,  they can be omitted. You only see him washing his shirt in the previous panel, so according to the on-screen-kill-rule it should not be included...if that rule still applies.
As for the logs, I'd say that to Guts, it should not be that much of an effort to cut down a few trees, since they're not really posing a threat when they were "alive".( And they weren't "killed" on-screen anyway)
That fish-kill shows us the result of Guts training in spite of the loss of his right eye and should therefore be included IMHO (and it's on-screen).


Jeez, must you criticise EVERYTHING?  I like the site, but CnC, you're just _too_ much, man...
LMAO, waiting for another JT-pic to turn up ?:casca:
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Aazealh on April 24, 2006, 07:48:31 PM
I think since you never see Guts actually catching them,  they can be omitted. You only see him washing his shirt in the previous panel, so according to the on-screen-kill-rule it should not be included...if that rule still applies.

"If, in the next panel, there are a display of bodies, each one with blood, or an identifyable injury, and Guts was directly responsible for their deaths, counts."

I think that counts.

As for the logs, I'd say that to Guts, it should not be that much of an effort to cut down a few trees, since they're not really posing a threat when they were "alive".

I don't think it's "not that much of an effort", especially considering the fact he failed to cut them down at the waterfall... I mean they're trees, not the kind of stuff that's easy to slice through.

That fish-kill shows us the result of Guts training in spite of the loss of his right eye and should therefore be included IMHO

Then the logs should too. They're as (ir)relevant. Not that I care much about the whole thing though.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Borgoff on April 24, 2006, 07:50:52 PM
That fish-kill shows us the result of Guts training in spite of the loss of his right eye and should therefore be included IMHO (and it's on-screen).

That's actually a good call. It does fall within the parameters I guess. It's just hard to take it seriously. I don't think Guts would be keeping track of something so trivial. If it were up to me, I don't think I would include it in the list, although Chung's argument is enough to give the fish a shred of dignity. I think this is where the mod's step in and keep us nerds at bay. :troll:
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Walter on April 24, 2006, 07:57:26 PM
I think this is where the mod's step in and keep us nerds at bay. :troll:
What, you think you're nerdier than me? I made a list of a fictional character's kills.

And I don't think that reasoning is really necessary for the fish. The only real standing rule right now is that Guts has to be responsible for its death.  If you want to reason, speculate what happened to the Apostles at the eclipse (those that Guts bashed the heads in).
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Borgoff on April 24, 2006, 07:59:28 PM
No reason to get defensive. If the apostles are so important then...why are we talking about the damn fish and logs?
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Walter on April 24, 2006, 08:14:50 PM
No reason to get defensive. If the apostles are so important then...why are we talking about the damn fish and logs?
I really wasn't being defensive.  I guess I should have added an XD emoticon.  As for why the fish and logs keep getting brought up, I guess they're more controversial than Apostles.  I couldn't tell you why though.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Borgoff on April 24, 2006, 08:21:47 PM
I really wasn't being defensive.  I guess I should have added an XD emoticon. 

Yeh, I didn't mean for what I said to come accross as if I was superior or whatever. The opposite was intended in fact. To get some boundries goin on in here. I have no qualms with the present list though. I think it actually just made SK.net the coolest Berserk website to date. :guts: But if people want controversy why don't we place bets on who will be the final kill? :zodd:

Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Walter on April 24, 2006, 08:25:06 PM
Bets sound good, but how about the total number instead?  We all know it'll be Griffith  :guts:

:griff:!  :-X!!
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Borgoff on April 24, 2006, 08:42:13 PM
Well, I expect Guts to throw out some more genecidal tactics before the end.  :guts: We all know the number will be huge...and caked with blood. Maybe include I'll include Idea in my guess on the final kill just for kicks. It would be cool to see Griffith become one with the Idea. :badbone: I seem to have a way with far-fetched specs today.  :serpico:
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Walter on April 24, 2006, 08:48:10 PM
Maybe include I'll include Idea in my guess on the final kill just for kicks. It would be cool to see Griffith become one with the Idea. :badbone: I seem to have a way with far-fetched specs today.  :serpico:
Ooooook Ooooook, this is a nice thought, but not here please. Think of the fishies...
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Forest Wraith on April 25, 2006, 04:23:47 AM
I hate to suggest this after so much work has already been done but I think that the Kill count should be ordered to start when Guts first kills someone as a child mercenary rather then when we first see him kill the Female Apostle. It's not canon but it would be a more accurate count in my opinion.
  On a more constructive note that shouldn't make you want to kill me quite so badly; I think a simple solution for his kill-count during the eclipse is to only count apostles that were speared through their human faces as this appears to be what injures an apostle the most. I'm also thinking that his arm should be counted as well, just for the comedic value of including it.
  I'm with Aazealh on the logs too, at least those are not as hard to count as some other things.
Excellent idea and a monumental task. Good job and good luck in the future.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Griffith on April 25, 2006, 05:07:22 AM
I hate to suggest this after so much work has already been done but I think that the Kill count should be ordered to start when Guts first kills someone as a child mercenary rather then when we first see him kill the Female Apostle. It's not canon but it would be a more accurate count in my opinion.

While that in no way makes it more "a accurate count", it would be and interesting feature to see it in chronological order.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Forest Wraith on April 25, 2006, 05:28:50 AM
It does make for a more accurate progression of the kill-count; as starting it in canon from when we see him kill the Female Apostle tags on almost a hundred kills from that time before we flash back to Guts' formative years.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Griffith on April 25, 2006, 06:17:43 AM
It does make for a more accurate progression of the kill-count;

Okay...

Since Guts wasn't a real person leading a real life now being chronicled by the famous biographer Kentarou Miura, I'm going to have to sort of disagree with you there. The Female Apostle was and is the first kill depicted in the manga, making it Guts the fictional character's (as he is in realiy) first kill in the series (not counting the protoype, of course). Again, it would simply be chronological to Guts' life, which I agreed would be an interesting feature, however no more "accurate", objectively speaking. Actually, it's arguably much less accurate since the story itself isn't depicted chronologically, and not all of Guts life is depicted, anyway (for instance, if you were following along the in the books, it would just be out of order, not a more accurate progression or whatever bullshit you said).

Also, you simply misspoke in the first place referring to the accuracy of the count in talking about it being in chronological order, which has nothing to do with whether or not the count is accurate. Hope that's all cleared up now.

as starting it in canon from when we see him kill the Female Apostle tags on almost a hundred kills from that time before we flash back to Guts' formative years.

You're right, I give up, I'm going to cut up my volumes and paste them back together in chronological order to have a more "accurate" story. =)
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Forest Wraith on April 25, 2006, 07:13:48 AM
Okay...

Since Guts wasn't a real person leading a real life now being chronicled by the famous biographer Kentarou Miura, I'm going to have to sort of disagree with you there. The Female Apostle was and is the first kill depicted in the manga, making it Guts the fictional character's (as he is in realiy) first kill in the series (not counting the protoype, of course). Again, it would simply be chronological to Guts' life, which I agreed would be an interesting feature, however no more "accurate", objectively speaking. Actually, it's arguably much less accurate since the story itself isn't depicted chronologically, and not all of Guts life is depicted, anyway (for instance, if you were following along the in the books, it would just be out of order, not a more accurate progression or whatever bullshit you said).

My point is is that its more accurate from a chronological stand-point.

Also, you simply misspoke in the first place referring to the accuracy of the count in talking about it being in chronological order, which has nothing to do with whether or not the count is accurate. Hope that's all cleared up now.

That's what I was trying to clarify. I'm glad you noticed.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Griffith on April 25, 2006, 07:38:04 AM
My point is is that its more accurate from a chronological stand-point.

No problem, all you had to do was say so.

Don't be afraid guys, just be direct, you don't have to dance around your REAL point with seemingly confused bunk. If you have a great point or observation to make, like that putting the roster in chronological order would be more accurate from a chronological standpoint :isidro:, go ahead and share your brilliant revelation.

While we're utilizing our Socratic reasoning, here's another epiphany for the ages; putting the roster in alphabetical order would be more accurate from an alphabetical standpoint! I think this would make for a more accurate count progression but with letters for more depth and literatureness. It's a true humanistic movement... speaking of which, I really have to go to the bathroom!

That's what I was trying to clarify. I'm glad you noticed.

I'm glad one of us did too. Happy to help.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Aazealh on April 25, 2006, 09:20:39 AM
I think that the Kill count should be ordered to start when Guts first kills someone as a child mercenary rather then when we first see him kill the Female Apostle. It's not canon but it would be a more accurate count in my opinion.

Your opinion is wrong. Let's end this digression here.

Also, for those that didn't notice there's now a new classification for kills: Legitimate, Indeterminate and Miscellaneous. That allows us to count everything we want in there without diminishing Guts' accomplishments by listing a fish, log or his own arm next to apostles. In other words it's perfect.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Some Guy on April 25, 2006, 03:40:53 PM
Also, for those that didn't notice there's now a new classification for kills: Legitimate, Indeterminate and Miscellaneous. That allows us to count everything we want in there without diminishing Guts' accomplishments by listing a fish, log or his own arm next to apostles. In other words it's perfect.

I agree, I find it an excellent addition.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Walter on April 25, 2006, 05:14:31 PM
It wouldn't be hard to include a chronology stat too.  I'd like to include all possible ways of sorting the info, before I start loading each entry into the database. However, the chronology won't be that accurate, seeing as Guts "age" technically stops at volume 16, almost half of the manga would be at Age "22."  Even though I personally think at least 2.5 years have passed since then...

[qu
Also, for those that didn't notice there's now a new classification for kills: Legitimate, Indeterminate and Miscellaneous. That allows us to count everything we want in there without diminishing Guts' accomplishments by listing a fish, log or his own arm next to apostles. In other words it's perfect.
Well, as you probably already know, this classification is simply the first step towards the final stage of the roster.  The next step is this: http://skullknight.net/php/test2.html  (Please don't click submit... it won't work yet. This is just the template for the form.)
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Chung on April 25, 2006, 10:02:04 PM
I'd like to include all possible ways of sorting the info, before I start loading each entry into the database. ..
How about adding the option to summarize the amount of kills by page, episode, volume or arc? So you would still have the total number of all kills on the left side, but also the number of kills in one specific episode or volume etc. in a respective column. The species column would just list all the species involved (And perhaps their quantity too). Would you consider that any good?
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Rhombaad on April 25, 2006, 10:07:08 PM
Also, for those that didn't notice there's now a new classification for kills: Legitimate, Indeterminate and Miscellaneous. That allows us to count everything we want in there without diminishing Guts' accomplishments by listing a fish, log or his own arm next to apostles. In other words it's perfect.

Great idea, problem solved. :serpico:
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Walter on April 28, 2006, 03:14:09 AM
Just an update to let you guys know I haven't abandoned this project.  Far from it, I've learned MySQL and now I'm learning PHP so I can make this data much more customizable.  I don't like announcing dates, but I think I should be done with this within the next month.  So, keep your eyes open.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Sparnage on April 28, 2006, 06:13:51 AM
Just an update to let you guys know I haven't abandoned this project.  Far from it, I've learned MySQL and now I'm learning PHP so I can make this data much more customizable.  I don't like announcing dates, but I think I should be done with this within the next month.  So, keep your eyes open.

What a great concept to add to the encyclopedia, you guys must be incredibly patient to go through with this.

One thing I'm curious about, during the 100 man slaying theres about 20 to 30 people mentioned for it in the list.
It' obvious that they didn't show all of the killings in process, and to write them down would break the rules a bit, like making a presumption on how many people he has killed during the gaps of his life that have jumped which obviously isn't on.

But we still see the evidence of his killings on the ground when they approach him and are given an accurate approximation on how many he has killed from other soldiers. Was it too obscure to include as everything else listed is more accurately portrayed?

Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many people has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Smith on May 06, 2006, 01:27:25 PM
This is a great project. I say after it's finished, you make all kinds of crazy lists like alleged kills, such as the 77 other Tudor mercs Guts was supposed to have killed in the 100 man fight.


100 man was just a estimate... I believe that night he killed more than that... 100++... Maybe 101-109?
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Walter on May 16, 2006, 03:41:58 AM
Well, "version 1" is up. (http://www.skullknight.net/roster/) Minus a superficial error at the very end of the roster (a blank cell), it's complete.  Technically, it's been done since the beginning of the month, but in building this in PHP, I got a few cool ideas. I've since been working on something more pleasing to the eye.

The pimped out version has been giving me troubles for weeks.  You can get a  glimpse of this format by clicking here (http://www.skullknight.net/php/test3g.html) (just fill in "Show me Everything" and sort "Traditonal" or it'll vomit table data all over the place).  As you can see, the next version will have volume images and totals per volume.  Sorting it this way is far more complicated though, so it'll take more time. 

But for now, in "version 1", you have a fully functioning customizable roster.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Aazealh on May 16, 2006, 04:51:24 AM
Good job on that man, hopefully it'll all be done soon. :guts:
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: CnC on May 16, 2006, 05:06:21 PM
thats some damn fine work, good job
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Chung on May 16, 2006, 05:28:31 PM
Sweet, great job!  :guts:
You might want to add a header for the acual listing, if it didn't occur to you already.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Walter on May 16, 2006, 06:11:39 PM
Sweet, great job!  :guts:
You might want to add a header for the acual listing, if it didn't occur to you already.
Not sure I understand what you mean...?  :???:
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: brinco on May 16, 2006, 06:15:40 PM
Great idea and good work
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Chung on May 16, 2006, 06:18:10 PM
Not sure I understand what you mean...? :???:

Sry, I'm sleepy, I was refering to adding the "Guts Kill Roster"-...thing to the actual list too, you know, there's the list with all the manga covers and such, but the "Guts Kill Roster" on top of it is gone. Might have been nice to just keep it in that place, (pretty trite, I know, but I was just trying to be somehow constructive )...was that understandable now :???:?
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Walter on May 16, 2006, 06:57:53 PM
Sry, I'm sleepy, I was refering to adding the "Guts Kill Roster"-...thing to the actual list too, you know, there's the list with all the manga covers and such, but the "Guts Kill Roster" on top of it is gone. Might have been nice to just keep it in that place, (pretty trite, I know, but I was just trying to be somehow constructive )...was that understandable now :???:?
Ah, I get it now.  Yeah I could add the header, but I think it gets in the way. And since you have to go through the form to get to the actual roster anyway, it's not like you'll forget where you are XD
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Chung on May 16, 2006, 07:14:42 PM
Haha, true that  :guts:

How about adding a pic of Guts, when sorting the list in chronological order? So it would be a new pic for each stage of his life instead of the volume covers, maybe?
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Walter on May 16, 2006, 07:21:59 PM
Haha, true that  :guts:

How about adding a pic of Guts, when sorting the list in chronological order? So it would be a new pic for each stage of his life instead of the volume covers, maybe?
So, a new picture for every instance he ages?  I like the idea, but it wouldn't be very balanced for the roster as a whole. There'd be a pic of him at 9, 11, 15 and from age 18 on, he looks virtually the same.

I'll try it out though and see how it looks. An image is worth 1000 words afterall.

Update: Added a little guide, hosted by one of my favorite characters. Check it out.
  :void:
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: avi on May 16, 2006, 08:43:09 PM
Wow, that is a fantastic work.

Very nice page.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: CnC on May 17, 2006, 12:56:40 AM
a fine guide for a great guide.

Good work!
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: vlad on May 17, 2006, 05:19:29 AM
Great job really immpresive! Just a quick one I didn't see a count for the possesed horse in vol. 17? If I missed something apologies in advance
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Walter on May 17, 2006, 05:23:43 AM
Great job really immpresive! Just a quick one I didn't see a count for the possesed horse in vol. 17? If I missed something apologies in advance
Hehe yeah, just goes to show you that the job is never done  :guts:  I've found a handful of other ones myself.  Thankfully with the new format, its much easier to add them.

Good call!
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Serpico on May 17, 2006, 11:22:03 AM
Woah, nice work. I've considered doing a count myself but an image of Guts sword covered with insect apostle spawn flashing in my head has always stopped my plan.

Maybe I'll start a count for Serpico. If there is 30 more volumes and he kills the peons while Guts deals with 1 or 2 huge prey he could probably catch up... well probably not actually, since guts also hacks peons before, after, and in the middle of all his fights, but Serpico will probably make a decent count too. I think he is already number 2, or is that Schierke and her blaze wheel, etc? She might actually pass Guts.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: handsome rakshas on May 20, 2006, 01:40:26 AM
Great job, Water!  :void:
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Some Guy on May 20, 2006, 04:23:50 AM
Fine work Walter, it looks great! :badbone:
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Serpico on May 27, 2006, 02:54:57 AM
I did a count for Serpico. So far he is upto 65 kills with about 5 being debateable but still likely.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Walter on May 27, 2006, 04:15:27 AM
Do you have them listed by vol/page? 
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Serpico on May 27, 2006, 01:57:38 PM
Do you have them listed by vol/page? 

Well I did, but my numbering reflects my own files. Here they are though

http://members.lycos.co.uk/serpiko915/serp_kills.htm

I put a question by the ones I wasn't sure of. There is the 3 mounted tigers whose heads get slashed up with Serpico's whirlwind attacks. Roderick stabbed one in the eye later so I know they lived a little longer. Then also the apostle chasing them which Schierke blasts its neck with hairs and then Serpico slashes along his head after which he collapses and I think is never seen again.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Aazealh on May 27, 2006, 02:25:00 PM
Then also the apostle chasing them which Schierke blasts its neck with hairs and then Serpico slashes along his head after which he collapses and I think is never seen again.

I don't think we can tell whether he's collapsing or not, and since they're pretty much fleeing after Serpico slashes his face I don't think he died (besides he's an apostle, he wouldn't die from a superficial cut). As far as I can tell Serpico managed to blind him (he got one eye but it looks like he slightly missed the other) and they used the opportunity to run away and hide in the armor's room while he was rampaging in the corridor.

Other than that it looks like the tigers lived a little longer yeah, even though his attack badly wounded them. As for the skeleton in episode 196... That's hard to say really, it depends on the criteria to count deaths that occur off screen.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Forest Wraith on May 28, 2006, 12:00:54 AM
Great work everyone. Walter; the design is amazing, you thought of everything and then some.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Tuco_godguns on June 15, 2006, 07:48:04 AM
you should send it to miura
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: xbigvmanx on June 15, 2006, 03:25:36 PM
I am sure he can easily kill more then 100 with his skills these days. i just wonder how many can he kill before he collapses in one battle. And lets choose an army of human merceneries. I would think now he can kill 1000. With all of his gadgets and power of the Armor.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Walter on June 15, 2006, 03:31:05 PM
I am sure he can easily kill more then 100 with his skills these days. i just wonder how many can he kill before he collapses in one battle. And lets choose an army of human merceneries. I would think now he can kill 1000. With all of his gadgets and power of the Armor.
What the hell does this have to do with the roster?  And he didnt reach the 1000 mark until the Trolls in the Qliphoth, so claiming he can kill 1000 on any given tuesday is just ridiculous.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Jaze1618 on July 01, 2006, 07:08:59 AM
is Rochine dead? I remember her flying away thinking about dinner.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Sparnage on July 01, 2006, 07:28:07 AM
is Rochine dead? I remember her flying away thinking about dinner.

Yeah it's made pretty clear she died while flying away after the damage Guts inflicted on her, a great trophy of the kill roster I must say. ;)
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Aazealh on July 01, 2006, 12:19:58 PM
is Rochine dead? I remember her flying away thinking about dinner.

And then her body breaks apart as she fall.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Billybob on August 27, 2006, 11:21:33 PM
Does Ganishka's apparation count as a kill? 
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Walter on August 28, 2006, 01:08:08 AM
Does Ganishka's apparation count as a kill? 
Hmmmmm... That's a good question. I'll have to consult my peers ( :griff: , :SK:).  I have a strong feeling they'll approve of it even though my personal gut reaction to it is "no way."  I don't even know what it'd be classified as... I guess in terms of the roster, it's the same as dispelling a ghost.  But... I just don't know.  It's not a distinct entity from Ganishka; it's really more like Guts chopped off Ganishka's spiritual arm, more than mortally wounded him.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Aazealh on August 28, 2006, 09:15:50 AM
Hmmmmm... That's a good question. I'll have to consult my peers ( :griff: , :SK:).  I have a strong feeling they'll approve of it even though my personal gut reaction to it is "no way."

Nah, I wouldn't count it as a kill. He definitely defeated him, even if he was really just holding the DS while Zodd attacked, but that doesn't really count as a "kill" to me.

it's really more like Guts chopped off Ganishka's spiritual arm, more than mortally wounded him.

Yeah, pretty much. And it's different from the ghosts in that Ganishka himself just got stung on the forehead.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Billybob on August 28, 2006, 01:57:15 PM
Makes sense to me.  I didn't really think it should be one, either, but since you fellows are compiling a list and not me, I thought it'd be appropriate to ask.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Dekant on October 23, 2006, 04:17:37 PM
What the hell does this have to do with the roster?  And he didnt reach the 1000 mark until the Trolls in the Qliphoth, so claiming he can kill 1000 on any given tuesday is just ridiculous.


I'm not questioning your knowledge of Berserk. You and Aaz are like encyclopedias. But I think it is safe to say that since the eclipse, Miura did not include each and every night. Meaning, Guts most definately has many more kills than are on your roster. (granted, there's no way to include that in the roster, I don't suggest it). I think it's pretty safe to say that he has more kills than we have official record of.

It might just be the translation I have, but during the Qliphoth sequence, SK mentions Guts DS having claimed Thousands of victims. Thinking Guts has ghosts, reanimated corpses, or possessed animals every night since the eclipse(i understand that flora cut this down quite a bit now for him, but he's still a busy lad), this, to me, doesn't seem entirely impossible.

Clearly, Guts is a more capable warrior now, than during the 100 man slayer scene. How many would you say is a reasonable figure that he'd be able to off in a night?

Again, there's no way to know how many Guts would have really killed if every night was accounted for. 

I'm really asking your opinion, rather than telling you how it is. I bow to your superior knowledge of Berserk.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Kagami on October 24, 2006, 07:48:03 PM
I don't think it should count. He just scared him off really. Go with your instinct on this one I say.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: jackson_hurley on October 24, 2006, 09:17:53 PM
Lucky for you guys guts is not part of the battle in vritanis (meaning you wont have to count thousands of bodies since theres gonna be lot of people in the next episodes!) :guts:
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Walter on October 24, 2006, 09:32:25 PM
Lucky for you guys guts is not part of the battle in vritanis (meaning you wont have to count thousands of bodies since theres gonna be lot of people in the next episodes!) :guts:
Yeah, I breathed a sigh of relief when he didn't end up killing anyone past the Daka in the 260's. I'm  not sure I even remember how to access the PHP to edit it anymore  :carcus: Time will tell!
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Okin on June 15, 2007, 06:40:19 PM
This is one of the most tedious fan works I have ever heard of considering that its a BERSERK kill roster. Great Job! I have to ask what was the most difficult episode to count up. I can't imagine how you did the all the cocoons and psuedo-elves!

Well keep it up and we can really see how much of Guts killings we've seen.

I understand that this is a record of all kills shown in the manga. Can we all agree on an actual estimation of how many people/apostles/pseudo-apostles/ghosts/trolls/skeletons/animals Guts has killed so far?

What I really want to know is what percent of Guts kills are actually shown in the manga.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Aazealh on June 15, 2007, 06:47:26 PM
Can we all agree on an actual estimation of how many people/apostles/pseudo-apostles/ghosts/trolls/skeletons/animals Guts has killed so far?

There isn't any way to know, or even to make an approximation. Let's just say it's a lot.

What I really want to know is what percent of Guts kills are actually shown in the manga.

Not a lot.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Walter on June 15, 2007, 06:59:55 PM
This is one of the most tedious fan works I have ever heard of considering that its a BERSERK kill roster. Great Job! I have to ask what was the most difficult episode to count up. I can't imagine how you did the all the cocoons and psuedo-elves!
Thanks for the praise. This thing was certainly a headache... especially learning PHP to make it sortable and all. Griffith No More did all the counting of the cocoon section. I personally just wanted to skip that part ... too much for my little brain. But he soldiered on, and the roster is better because of it, I think.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Baato on June 16, 2007, 06:10:51 PM
interestingly, the manga did not show all 100 mercenaries that Guts killed during his return to the hawks with Casca after falling off the waterfall's edge.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Jaze1618 on June 20, 2007, 05:00:04 PM
Well about 25 kills after the guy from the Korbolwitz family tells Guts they still have 50 men left to kill him with it cuts to Casca telling Judo and the Hawks to hurry to get back to Guts to save him. When they get there he's already killed them all and is resting against the tree.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Walter on June 20, 2007, 06:09:11 PM
Well about 25 kills after the guy from the Korbolwitz family tells Guts they still have 50 men left to kill him with it cuts to Casca telling Judo and the Hawks to hurry to get back to Guts to save him. When they get there he's already killed them all and is resting against the tree.
They could have died of heart attacks  :carcus:

Seriously though, for practical reasons, I could only count kills "on-screen." It would have gotten way too complicated and arbitrary otherwise to decide which ones counted.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Jaze1618 on June 20, 2007, 07:57:25 PM
I was rushed when I posted the above earlier but my point was that they still showed 75 kills which is damn impressive because I certainly didn't think they had even showed that many until you counted them for the kill roster.

I don't know for sure without counting myself but Usually when someone mentions that 50 men have been killed (any number greater than 15 really) they have usually died off panel, off screen, or in a montage.

My subpoint is that while not all 100 were shown killed by guts if the poster above my last post remembers that there are still men left for guts to fight in that battle when it cuts away; then when it cuts back they are all dead. Done.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Walter on June 20, 2007, 08:07:20 PM
My subpoint is that while not all 100 were shown killed by guts if the poster above my last post remembers that there are still men left for guts to fight in that battle when it cuts away; then when it cuts back they are all dead. Done.
Yeah, Miura does justify the numbers, to some extent. And in scenes like the 100-man-killing and the escape from Wyndham, I did count bodies, I think, as long as it was blatantly obvious who had done the killing (Guts, in most all cases) and they were fresh kills.

There's no real reason not to. But I didn't count someone else's estimate of how many troops there were.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Jaze1618 on June 20, 2007, 09:48:23 PM
I think you chose the best way to do it. If its not shown them killed then don't count them. If you make an exception for one battle then you might have to start making them other places.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: m on May 24, 2009, 04:51:13 PM
Today I opened the kill roster by accident (I think) and I to my surprise there is a new and improved version. I really liked it.  :serpico:

A small suggestion, I think it would be nice if all relevant check boxes were selected when checking an everything option and vice versa.

EDIT: I tried to search selecting a species and no kind of stats and the other way around (no species and stats) and I got an error. I'm almost positive that I wasn't supposed to do that but it's still something that could be validated.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Walter on May 24, 2009, 05:18:56 PM
Thanks for the comments, but I haven't updated this or even changed any of the entries for about 2-3 years.

EDIT: I tried to search selecting a species and no kind of stats and the other way around (no species and stats) and I got an error. I'm almost positive that I wasn't supposed to do that but it's still something that could be validated.

This is not a feature I think is necessary. No kind of stats? That's the whole purpose of the kill roster. It's not a bestiary.  :azan:
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: m on May 24, 2009, 05:26:55 PM
Thanks for the comments, but I haven't updated this or even changed any of the entries for about 2-3 years.

Really? I think it hasn't been longer than three years since I last checked it and all I saw was a big list and I didn't see the search form.

This is not a feature I think is necessary. No kind of stats? That's the whole purpose of the kill roster. It's not a bestiary.  :azan:

What I meant is that if there is no check box selected when the submit button is clicked on, perhaps it should default to everything or something instead of generating an error because it received malformed input.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: slan69 on June 05, 2009, 05:07:27 PM
I was looking at this kill roster and i just wanted to know is Guts currently 21 years old, or his he a bit older  :???:
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Walter on June 05, 2009, 06:15:44 PM
Really not the right thread to ask the question in but, he's between 22-23  years old if you extrapolate information from the Miura Letter (read my post on it here: http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=9513.msg166316#msg166316).
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Roderick on January 28, 2012, 06:57:45 AM
Episode 326:  1 "Sea God" :guts:
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Walter on January 28, 2012, 11:26:34 AM
Episode 326:  1 "Sea God" :guts:
Yeah I'll get right on that  :carcus:
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Walter on January 22, 2015, 06:55:26 PM
Yeah I'll get right on that  :carcus:

Done!
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Imperator Hanseatic on June 30, 2016, 12:25:31 PM
I just loaded this ancient thread up to show a buddy who asked me "Just how much has Guts killed over the course of the series?"

And I have to ask after rereading the whole thread, would any of the things Guts has defeated since the arrival on Skellig count?
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Walter on June 30, 2016, 12:38:26 PM
I dont think the Wicker Man counts. And neither do the pumpkins, unless you consider yourself a murderer for eating pumpkins.  :guts:
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Imperator Hanseatic on June 30, 2016, 02:34:03 PM
I was thinking "Maybe" on the Wicker Man, due to the process involved in creating it, but I agree with you about the pumpkins. Your call though, just thought I'd make sure it'd been considered.
Title: Re: Guts' Kill Roster: How many has he REALLY killed?
Post by: Walter on June 30, 2016, 02:55:17 PM
Sure, but you should know that I never really intended to keep up with that list in real-time. It's time consuming just to add one entry, and makes more sense to add them all at once. So, maybe in a few years I'll update it.