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Berserk => Berserk Miscellaneous => Topic started by: aufond on September 06, 2004, 07:37:52 PM

Title: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: aufond on September 06, 2004, 07:37:52 PM
Why does it take Dark Horse so long to release a new volume of Berserk???  They should try and keep up with Kentarou Miura as best as they can...  I wish I could read past volume 5...
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: DemonX on September 06, 2004, 08:00:34 PM
Well aside from the fact that it takes time to translate and get the approval of miura, i dont think they would release all 27 volumes in one month.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: aufond on September 06, 2004, 10:45:58 PM
Well aside from the fact that it takes time to translate and get the approval of miura, i dont think they would release all 27 volumes in one month.

They wouldn't have to bring out all 27 volumes in one month, but one volume a month would be much better...
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: C on September 06, 2004, 11:35:03 PM
a few years here
         a few years there.....
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: NeoBerserker on September 12, 2004, 01:15:46 AM
God damnit they are taking to long, aren't horses suppose to be fast? 3 freekin months between each one (approx.) by the time they get to vol 12 a year will pass AND 5 YEARS TILL THEY GET TO VOL 27 (if they continue like this) we should write to them or something
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Jon Schaffer on September 12, 2004, 02:07:48 AM
Shut up, no one cares. You have SK.net's translations and scans. Hell, most of you even have scanslations. Just be patient and quit acting like little children. If you want manga that bad, print your scanslations and put it all together.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: C on September 12, 2004, 02:52:24 AM
i thought about that....

but im gonna buy them anyways,

so i wont waste my time or money ;D

 - c
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: dwarfkicker on September 12, 2004, 04:36:35 AM
I got the scanlations.  I don't feel ashamed at that.  I've also got the first 4 volumes released by darkhorse.  Heh, I'm the one who emailed darkhorse and brought the news to people here that they intended to bring over the whole series past the first three volumes.  I just hope darkhorse switches it over to bimonthly.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Sparnage on September 12, 2004, 05:42:03 AM
I got the scanlations.  I don't feel ashamed at that.  I've also got the first 4 volumes released by darkhorse.  Heh, I'm the one who emailed darkhorse and brought the news to people here that they intended to bring over the whole series past the first three volumes.  I just hope darkhorse switches it over to bimonthly.

Second.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: IV on September 12, 2004, 07:20:09 AM
I just hope darkhorse switches it over to bimonthly.
Agreed, just that one month difference, would change six years to get to the current point(vol.28) in the manga down to only four.  But, I suppose we should be thankful that we do not have to wait Eight months in between Volumes. ;D
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: dwarfkicker on September 12, 2004, 08:36:04 PM
I emailed them like four different times concerning different areas.  One of them was their release schedule.  They said that if sales continue to do well they will attempt a bimonthly release schedule.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: IV on September 12, 2004, 10:59:36 PM
Bimonthly would be sweet, it seems that it is one of the top sellers.  What other areas did your e-mails pertain to?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: dwarfkicker on September 12, 2004, 11:53:12 PM
Like I stated in my first post in this topic,  the one was about them licensing more.  Second post pertained to my second email, concerning the release schedule.  Third email was about including the lost chapter which they said they would look into.  And last had to do with the names of the characters which seems like they went the right with that one.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: aufond on September 13, 2004, 02:32:32 AM
Shut up, no one cares. You have SK.net's translations and scans. Hell, most of you even have scanslations. Just be patient and quit acting like little children. If you want manga that bad, print your scanslations and put it all together.

Scanlations are horrible quality.  Printing all of them would be a waste of paper and ink.  Nobody is acting like a little child, except you.  "shut up, no one cares..."
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: C on September 14, 2004, 04:18:07 AM
hehe ;D,

he pushed your buttons!,

quite amusing to me,

this is a message board, and you get hostile,

and on your 3rd post no less,

that was his opinion, and what is yours?

i have very good quality scans, in fact here,

this is my book i made a while back:

http://www.10-4.kingswolf.com/my_berserk_book.MPG

and i dont want to act like a child,

so i will use adult language and say,

it was great of you to come here to see Berserk,

and on your 3rd post i would like to inform you it would be a good idea to stfu,

talk about Berserk or go away, to a far place, in the top of the forum,

call the "trashcan", aka, shootin the breeze,

i wish i was an enforcer,

i would take people who like to start shit and transplant them into the ban-can,

unless she has dark hair, beautiful face, all her teeth, a better name than aufond,....

and i would like to see dark horse come out faster,

but at least they are printing, yes? :D

 - c

(did i push your buttons? you seem to be aufond of bullshit i might add 8))
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: nir085 on September 14, 2004, 04:28:46 AM
Hahahaha. (http://darkhorse.com/profile/profile.php?sku=10-164)

Slow down, Dark Horse, slow down and actually read the volumes before selling them.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: aufond on September 14, 2004, 10:22:28 AM
hehe ;D,

he pushed your buttons!,

quite amusing to me,

this is a message board, and you get hostile,

and on your 3rd post no less,

that was his opinion, and what is yours?

i have very good quality scans, in fact here,

this is my book i made a while back:

http://www.10-4.kingswolf.com/my_berserk_book.MPG

and i dont want to act like a child,

so i will use adult language and say,

it was great of you to come here to see Berserk,

and on your 3rd post i would like to inform you it would be a good idea to stfu,

talk about Berserk or go away, to a far place, in the top of the forum,

call the "trashcan", aka, shootin the breeze,

i wish i was an enforcer,

i would take people who like to start shit and transplant them into the ban-can,

unless she has dark hair, beautiful face, all her teeth, a better name than aufond,....

and i would like to see dark horse come out faster,

but at least they are printing, yes? :D

 - c

(did i push your buttons? you seem to be aufond of bullshit i might add 8))

Hey sorry I didn't mean to cause any harm.  I was just stating that I didn't think that there were good scanlations of Berserk, cuz mine are actually horrible.  I know, I'm new, so I will shut up.  But I wasn't pissed or anything, I was just joking around.  That guy seemed kinda pissed, but oh well, what do I know.. or care, this is the internet.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: IV on September 14, 2004, 12:06:10 PM
Hahahaha. (http://darkhorse.com/profile/profile.php?sku=10-164)
Slow down, Dark Horse, slow down and actually read the volumes before selling them.
Yeah, WTF....
Quote from: Dark Horse
....the growing favor of the king towards the Hawk leader raises the hackles of the king's jealous son, who plots to have Griffith summarily assassinated. But if the plot fails, the king's son will likely have to deal with Guts and his titanic broadsword, and the results of such confrontations are rarely pretty... or easy to clean up.
The King's son, I suppose they mean Julius, the King's brother.

Agreed, Reading the Vol, before they sell it would be a plus.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: C on September 14, 2004, 01:42:41 PM
ya know what,

im impressed,

aufond, youre alright  :),

most people would go on for 80 posts of crap,

but you didnt, so youre cool with me ;D,

maybe we should all email dark horse at the same time to get our point across, eh?

 - c  8)
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Shane on September 14, 2004, 07:09:28 PM
hehe ;D,

he pushed your buttons!,

quite amusing to me,

this is a message board, and you get hostile,

and on your 3rd post no less,

that was his opinion, and what is yours?

i have very good quality scans, in fact here,

this is my book i made a while back:

http://www.10-4.kingswolf.com/my_berserk_book.MPG

and i dont want to act like a child,

so i will use adult language and say,

it was great of you to come here to see Berserk,

and on your 3rd post i would like to inform you it would be a good idea to stfu,

talk about Berserk or go away, to a far place, in the top of the forum,

call the "trashcan", aka, shootin the breeze,

i wish i was an enforcer,

i would take people who like to start shit and transplant them into the ban-can,

unless she has dark hair, beautiful face, all her teeth, a better name than aufond,....

and i would like to see dark horse come out faster,

but at least they are printing, yes? :D

 - c

(did i push your buttons? you seem to be aufond of bullshit i might add 8))
8)<- -10-4
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: DemonX on September 14, 2004, 07:33:02 PM
I really hate darkhorses summarizers...

They could not get the summery right for the last couple volumes too.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Sparnage on September 14, 2004, 09:01:30 PM
Shut up, no one cares. You have SK.net's translations and scans. Hell, most of you even have scanslations. Just be patient and quit acting like little children. If you want manga that bad, print your scanslations and put it all together.

How patient would you be without at least decent scans? He is impatient but I would be too without scans or at least good ones. Also unlike other members he is at least a new person who is willing to buy the Manga, so people shouldn't be so hard on him.

I really hate darkhorses summarizers...

They could not get the summery right for the last couple volumes too.

I read the last few from Darkhorse, whats wrong with them?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: DemonX on September 15, 2004, 02:00:56 AM

I read the last few from Darkhorse, whats wrong with them?

Bah, don't you remember? You participated in the dissapointment too.

I feel kind of proud though, because since I sent them an email to change their summerys and rewrite them correctly, they did  ;D.

However, Im too lazy to find the thread with this in it. Seach around the site and find it yourself.  8)
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: IV on September 15, 2004, 09:46:34 AM
This thread (http://www.skullknight.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=3148.0) has the previous summary errors.
They are kinda funny. ;D
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Sparnage on September 15, 2004, 12:03:43 PM

Bah, don't you remember? You participated in the dissapointment too.

I feel kind of proud though, because since I sent them an email to change their summerys and rewrite them correctly, they did  ;D.

However, Im too lazy to find the thread with this in it. Seach around the site and find it yourself.  8)

Oh I remember Dark horses original volume 4 summary perfectly, in fact following your idea I too sent a big complaint to the company about expecting better.
What I mean is that there are now summaries of the first 6 volumes and they are all fairly accurate now, so I have no complaints.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: DemonX on September 16, 2004, 02:29:41 AM
Hehe, I never checked on that thread again for some reason, so ill make my responses here instead of reviving it  8).


Maybe bitching helped. Demon, you should have a warm fuzzy feeling inside ;)


 I'm sure they received complaints from more than just the two of us, also. ^_-  Power in numbers, y'all.  Let's continue to bitch about stuff like this in the future.

Fight on my brothers! Never let the bitching rest!
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Sparnage on September 16, 2004, 01:46:16 PM
Hehe, I never checked on that thread again for some reason, so ill make my responses here instead of reviving it 8).

Fight on my brothers! Never let the bitching rest!

Damn straight, who are we trying to impress at Darkhorse? ;D

Still I have no current complaints.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Jon Schaffer on September 16, 2004, 04:29:08 PM
Scanlations are horrible quality. Printing all of them would be a waste of paper and ink.
That was the point. If someone was that impatient then I would imagine that they would not care how bad the scans may be.

Damn straight, who are we trying to impress at Darkhorse? ;D

Still I have no current complaints.
I don't really mind how bad the translations are, as long as its not something oblivious compared. I just want the manga to say that I have it and so when I'm too lazy go get on the computer or go somewhere I can always read it.  ;D

Quote from: Aufond
Nobody is acting like a little child, except you. "shut up, no one cares..."
Quote from: Aufond
I know, I'm new, so I will shut up.  But I wasn't pissed or anything, I was just joking around.  That guy seemed kinda pissed, but oh well, what do I know.. or care, this is the internet.
You should take more pride in the fact that your the new guy. Try to be different from the others. At least you admit you are wrong. Most people here are stubborn and never would do such a thing. Welcome to SK.net.  ;D
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Shane on September 17, 2004, 03:02:08 PM
aww... no more jon the madman...
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: C on September 18, 2004, 02:27:58 AM
are you not mad anymore jon?

are you gettin soft on us?  ;)
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: DemonX on September 18, 2004, 02:36:03 AM
think about the children, jon, think about the children.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Yukimura on November 21, 2004, 03:03:43 AM
Why does it take Dark Horse so long to release a new volume of Berserk???  They should try and keep up with Kentauro Miura as best as they can...  I wish I could read past volume 5...

well the release date for Berserk voulme 6 is jan. 2005. There all going to slow tho, they cant translate a book a week. Also, Its good to The "noobies" of berserk, because they have time to buy all the voulmes befor berserk voulme 6 comes
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Dani on February 18, 2005, 03:06:49 PM
Hmm, volume 6 is now out with 7 in about 2 months.

Any information about an update to bimonthly yet?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: IV on February 18, 2005, 09:15:51 PM
Last time I asked them, They responded with that "they couldn't translate the manga and print it that fast, and the fastest possibility would be Bi-monthly." When they receive more recources. 
I beleive it was an automated response, just e-mail them about it if you want the message, but I have since deleted the one I Recieved from them. :-[ 
I suppose It may be about time to e-mail them again. ;D
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: davedapunk on February 23, 2005, 03:19:33 PM
Shut up, no one cares. You have SK.net's translations and scans. Hell, most of you even have scanslations. Just be patient and quit acting like little children. If you want manga that bad, print your scanslations and put it all together.

The scanlations really suck.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Some Guy on February 23, 2005, 07:27:12 PM
 I really don't see what all the fuss is about.  I haven't had and real issues with translation aside from a couple of small instances.  The images look alot crisper than any computer scans I was using before.  None of the material has beed deleted from the original source, and the release of each volume every third month is fine by me.

 The volumes will catch up the the Japanese eventually, and I'm in no hurry to wait 6+ months for a new issue when it does.  Right now I'm just glad we have the scans and translations on this site.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: QuestionMark on March 02, 2005, 02:38:55 AM
I understand the fact of the economics, and unless they are willing to pay more people to translate more of the issue more quickly, then....  it'll only come out so fast.  If it sells well enough, they'll increase the release schedule. 

The summaries still are laughable, but atleast they're, technically speaking, correct regarding the plot.  It's obvious they're trying to hit a certain demographic, but I think it's a misguided effort-- because in the end they're misrepresenting the product.  Whatever.

I would love, however, to see the series come out with a new issue every month or 2 months though.  I'll have to email them too.  Rabid fans do represent the market-- I think they're sort of like a certain percentage of the whole, and companies can extrapolate from the number of wacky "print it faster!" emails what the total, general readership is.....

Obviously, emailing has worked before.  No reason to assume it wont continue to.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Raftrider on March 22, 2005, 03:18:07 PM
I'm not complaining because I have the Scanlations of volumes 4-27 (and 28, so soon, so very soon. :D), but at this rate, DarkHorse will probably go under because of companies like Tokyo Pop oversaturating the market and releasing the next volumes of manga every month. People hate to wait. And of course, one would probably have to special order Berserk because of the content, so why pop them out any faster is probably their way of thinking. By the way, Sparnage. I love your avatar. I'm considering to get the brand tattooed onto the back of my neck. I'm such a Berserk slut. :D
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Woland on March 22, 2005, 09:27:14 PM
I'm not complaining because I have the Scanlations of volumes 4-27 (and 28, so soon, so very soon. :D)

You probably should complain then, some scanslations are in the realm of fan-fiction.
Oh, and they're not exactly beloved here.

Quote
but at this rate, DarkHorse will probably go under because of companies like Tokyo Pop oversaturating the market and releasing the next volumes of manga every month. People hate to wait.

Dark Horse is primarily a Western comics company.  I doubt they're in any real financial danger.  Besides, once DH catches up, people will have to wait even longer for new volumes.

Quote
And of course, one would probably have to special order Berserk because of the content, so why pop them out any faster is probably their way of thinking.

It's not like that's very difficult.  Any major bookstore can special order for you.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Sparnage on March 23, 2005, 08:43:45 PM
The only reason I can determine Darkhorse and other comic production groups releasing english Manga so slowly is because they make sure it's not a bad investment and it doesn't sell well enough after mass producing too many volumes too soon ergo losing money (or so I'm told anyway.)
This in alot of cases would be fairly understandable for Darkhorse to take their time at first, but it sounds like Berserk is become pretty popular and selling well in comparison to other manga in western countries, so if 6 volumes have been released with success then I can't understand why they don't pick up the pace for eagerly waiting fans.

The words of the official Darkhorse forum openly say themselves;
• The first five volumes of Berserk have sold over 100, 000 copies!


By the way, Sparnage. I love your avatar. I'm considering to get the brand tattooed onto the back of my neck. I'm such a Berserk slut. :D

Thanks, I couldn't help but steal it from another Berserk forum when it caught my eye. I believe there is a couple of threads of people who have Berserk tattos in the Miscellaneous area somewhere. If I was going to get a tattoo it would also have to be the brand.

Dark Horse is primarily a Western comics company. I doubt they're in any real financial danger. Besides, once DH catches up, people will have to wait even longer for new volumes.

At this rate when/if they catch up 10 or so years will have passed.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Void Swordsman on April 05, 2005, 11:34:59 PM
And of course, one would probably have to special order Berserk because of the content, so why pop them out any faster is probably their way of thinking.

Heh, it's pretty easy to find berserk in any major bookstore.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Smith on April 09, 2005, 10:34:14 PM
At this rate when/if they catch up 10 or so years will have passed.


12 yrs to be exact if i am not wrong... Now still 10 years... wow where would i be at that time?  ::)
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Darth on April 10, 2005, 12:01:06 AM
Its sad to say but I haven't read all of the manga yet. so yeah I wish that Dark Horse would hurry up. I mean I still buy the Japanese manga and it rules.but I would love to have them in English.and I don't want to read the scans, I rather just buy the originals.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Un_Colombiano on April 10, 2005, 06:47:20 PM
well when DH is finally caught up to the present volume, berserk will probably be close to finish (Vol 45 or something) in japan 10 yrs from now! wow, ill be almost 30 yrs old....thats a scary thought..
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Dragon Slayer on April 10, 2005, 11:48:56 PM
  Good ole Dark Horse just bumped volume 7's release back to May 4th.  Volume 8 hasn't changed though I believe
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Yukimura on April 11, 2005, 01:24:44 AM
well when DH is finally caught up to the present volume, berserk will probably be close to finish (Vol 45 or something) in japan 10 yrs from now! wow, ill be almost 30 yrs old....thats a scary thought..
Its been 12 years already LOL
Good ole Dark Horse just bumped volume 7's release back to May 4th. Volume 8 hasn't changed though I believe
yup looks like they put it up by two months, and for the good because now we wont wait 3 months for Berserk Volume 8
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Darth on April 12, 2005, 03:29:12 AM
looks like they put it up by two months, and for the good because now we wont wait 3 months for Berserk Volume 8
lets hope that Dark Horse keeps up the trend of bi-monthly when the announce when issue 9 will come out
issue 7 is supposed to come out 5/4/05 and issue 8 is supposed to come out 7/15/05. so i guess never the less ill just have Berserk in Japanese and in English
berserk will probably be close to finish (Vol 45 or something)
I'm hoping it will go past 45 ;D but thats another thread
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Yukimura on April 13, 2005, 08:16:31 PM
lets hope that Dark Horse keeps up the trend of bi-monthly when the announce when issue 9 will come out
issue 7 is supposed to come out 5/4/05 and issue 8 is supposed to come out 7/15/05. so i guess never the less ill just have Berserk in Japanese and in English
DH should stop the releasing berserk for awhile, intill they finish printing[up to] volume15, then release berserk every month, intill volume 13. stop the release dates for two months and then release a berserk volume every two months. Just a though tho.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Darth on April 13, 2005, 09:08:30 PM
DH should stop the releasing berserk for awhile, intill they finish printing[up to] volume15, then release berserk every month, intill volume 13. stop the release dates for two months and then release a berserk volume every two months. Just a though tho.
actually i think its a great idea. but they should have limited amount of time on printing up to volume 15 (say 4 months)
then when they made it bi-monthly i would still be very pleased.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: BiQ-- on April 13, 2005, 11:11:36 PM
Well, this just in:

longish url to darkhorse.com board (http://www.darkhorse.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=7028&sid=7b4d507fea87d0e621f5b0f952e99481), there's a post by Chris Warner, DH editor in charge of Berserk

in short: Bookstores are PO about having no more shelf space and there is no end in sight to this "new manga title" avalanche. Going a little easier on bookstores' shelf space (=not cranking stuff out ASAP) makes it easier to carry a series, since they need to keep all of the older volumes in stock as well. Some retailers are not feeling very easy about having Berserk on sale so not making it even harder for them serves a very real purpose.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Darth on April 14, 2005, 01:28:20 AM
Well, this just in:

longish url to darkhorse.com board (http://www.darkhorse.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=7028&sid=7b4d507fea87d0e621f5b0f952e99481), there's a post by Chris Warner, DH editor in charge of Berserk

in short: Bookstores are PO about having no more shelf space and there is no end in sight to this "new manga title" avalanche. Going a little easier on bookstores' shelf space (=not cranking stuff out ASAP) makes it easier to carry a series, since they need to keep all of the older volumes in stock as well. Some retailers are not feeling very easy about having Berserk on sale so not making it even harder for them serves a very real purpose.
I think it would be a good move to make it a bi-monthly series. I mean it has sold over 100,000 copies. I'm surprised that any retailer would have a problem with stocking up on Berserk rather than some of the other garbage thats out there, and I might add that the garbage manga I speak of does not sell half as well as Berserk. well we'll just have to wait and see.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Un_Colombiano on April 14, 2005, 11:40:39 AM
is 100,000 copies a good number? im not familiar with book sale figures.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: IV on April 14, 2005, 12:11:13 PM
Quote from: chris warner
I wouldn't rule out a bimonthly schedule in the future, but we'd probably need to wait until the bookstore shakeout...well, shakes out.
This sounds promising.  Maybe in a year or so Darkhorse may give into the idea of a bi-monthly release. 
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: dwarfkicker on April 14, 2005, 03:38:43 PM
100,000 x 15 bucks a book = $1,500,000

I think it's a good number, don't you?


And I like how they are still considering the bimonthly release.

It's bad enough that both Darkhorse and Miura won't reach Vol 50 until I'm in my early 30's.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Yukimura on April 14, 2005, 04:31:19 PM
I see what Chris Warner is saying. I was buying Bleach 6 two days ago and I saw Berserk 2 out and I said to myself "They have Berserk volume 2, now I have to buy that now." Also I see Samurai Deeper Kyo 11 and Fruits Basket volume 6 (don't ask) and I am at the bookstore for 30 minutes saying to myself "what to buy, what to buy" I am in a manga book club and they're reading the watchman.

The thoughts come back to my head "what to buy, what to buy" next comes rave masters. So I run out of that store (paying for the two books). I don't think this is DH's fault, I think it is the reader's fault. When I first started collecting manga, I only had Naruto manga. Volume 1-3 was the only books on my shelf, until I just started buying manga that sounded "cool", now I am pushed to buy the other volumes. :'(  Why did I buy Peacemaker, WHY.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: davedapunk on April 15, 2005, 01:53:21 PM
100,000 x 15 bucks a book = $1,500,000

I think it's a good number, don't you?


And I like how they are still considering the bimonthly release.

It's bad enough that both Darkhorse and Miura won't reach Vol 50 until I'm in my early 30's.

Well is that good? Considering all the payments that have to go out to produce the manga, printing, translating, legal rights etc; I'm not 100% sure wether that is good.

And the figure 100,000...how does that compare to the sales of other Manga?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: dwarfkicker on April 15, 2005, 02:33:46 PM
Over a million bucks.  Million.  Since when is a million not good?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: davedapunk on April 18, 2005, 06:52:50 AM
Over a million bucks.  Million.  Since when is a million not good?

Man i thought £1,000,000 wasnt all that impressive, but $1,000,000 is even worse! Seeing as people who win the lottery can get up to £20,000,000, no a million isn't very much. Especially for something as big as Dark Horse.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on April 18, 2005, 07:31:00 AM
Seeing as people who win the lottery can get up to £20,000,000, no a million isn't very much.

Great reasoning really. I guess you earn $200,000 a month, too?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: QuestionMark on April 18, 2005, 06:34:55 PM
I think his point was that, basically, DH has to pay for translator(s?), copyright, marketing, etc. for each issue they release.  If we don't know what those figures add up to, then we don't know what their margin of profit is.  Maybe they're only making $200-400K for the those 100,000 copies.  Maybe not.  Maybe their making $1.5 million.  Unless someone around here works in the comics business though, and has a sense of those figures, we're not really going to know what DH's "take-home" profit is for those issues.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: IV on April 19, 2005, 04:28:10 AM
from what Chris Warner said:
Quote from: Chris Warner
We priced titles based on a reality-based model rather than one based on needing huge volume to turn a profit
So likely, they get a couple of bucks for each volume sold. so with 100,000 copies, it is likely to be in the 200k-400k profit area.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: davedapunk on April 19, 2005, 06:58:40 AM
Great reasoning really. I guess you earn $200,000 a month, too?

If i was the Chairman of Dark Horse i'd be expecing to earn more than that!
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on April 19, 2005, 03:21:51 PM
If i was the Chairman of Dark Horse i'd be expecing to earn more than that!
...
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Darth on April 19, 2005, 10:45:52 PM
If i was the Chairman of Dark Horse i'd be expecing to earn more than that!
but thats only one of they're titles. and I'm not exactly sure, but i think, for an M rated manga it does exceptionally well. and never the less it's sales are really high for any rating of manga.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: thedigitalsin on April 19, 2005, 11:33:08 PM
Just thought I'd point out that the average manga title sells 7500 copies per volume in the USA. 

The first five volumes of Berserk has sold over 100,000 copies, averaging more than 20,000 copies each volume. 

If you need confirmation, yes, Berserk is doing extremely well.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Darth on April 23, 2005, 10:42:27 PM
ok i just checked the Dark Horse website and the date has NOT been pushed back thank god. its still standing for
Volume 7  release date: 5/4/05
Volume 8  release date: 7/13/05

as i said before i really hope they keep the bi-monthly trend going  ;D.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: C on April 24, 2005, 12:36:00 AM
I do too, I already have 7 and 8 on order! I can't wait!  ;D

 - C
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Darth on April 24, 2005, 01:49:59 PM
I do too, I already have 7 and 8 on order! I can't wait!  ;D

 - C
yeah man i cant wait either. i mean i know this ain't going to happen, but it would rule if they made it a monthly series until it caught up. but like i said i know it ain't going to happen unless sales basically multiply by like 5 or more lol. so lets just hope for a bi-monthly release ;D.

EDIT:
Ok well Issue 7 is out today (in English) i cant wait to pick it up.
issue 8 drops on 7/13/05
as soon as I'm finished reading 7 ill let you guys know of how many errors i could find (hopefully none)
and ill keep checking DarkHorse.com regularly so as soon as i hear about a release date for 9 ill just post it. i really hope it will be in september making my bi-monthly wish come true. ;)
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: IV on May 04, 2005, 05:57:02 AM
Good, something to pick-up. I thought it was awful that Priest was delayed, despite the fact that Tokyopop still says it is to be released 4/1/05.  Glad that darkhorse at least updates their site with delays, unlike Tokyopop.
I would definitely be happy with a bi-monthly release. :D
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Vaxillus on May 04, 2005, 10:05:53 PM
Sweet, something else to blow my money on.  Hope the translations are good.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Darth on May 04, 2005, 10:49:29 PM
ok i just went to 3 comic shops in the city. and no one has issue 7. so if anyone can confirm that it has been held back yet again please let me know ???.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: IV on May 05, 2005, 07:28:03 AM
ok i just went to 3 comic shops in the city. and no one has issue 7. so if anyone can confirm that it has been held back yet again please let me know ???.
I only visited one comic shop.  They told me that Dark horse release dates can vary slightly from what is posted on their site, and to expect it next week, and it would be in Friday's invoice if they were to get it in next week.

They also reminded me that this Saturday is the fourth annual "Free Comic Book Day". (http://www.freecomicbookday.com/)
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: C on May 05, 2005, 09:37:43 PM
Since you are going to buy it anyways, I would go to Barnes and Noble and order it. That's what I do, and when it comes in they call you and hold it for two weeks for you. You don't have to pay for it until it arrives. I have seven and eight ordered, I haven't been called yet, so it is not in. I have bought one through six through them, it works out quite nicely.  ;D

 - C
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: IV on May 05, 2005, 09:46:36 PM
I like excuses to visit my local comic shop though. ;D
Besides If I hadn't asked about it, I would have missed "Free Comic Book Day" (http://www.freecomicbookday.com/).
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Vaxillus on May 05, 2005, 11:24:53 PM
"Free Comic Book Day" (http://www.freecomicbookday.com/).
I git the feeling you're trying to tell us something...but what could it be...
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: IV on May 08, 2005, 04:19:39 AM
I git the feeling you're trying to tell us something...but what could it be...
Was I being too subtle? ::)

Anyway, some shops have Vol. 7 now. ;D
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Darth on May 11, 2005, 05:11:00 AM
ok it was pushed back even on the Dark Horse website. i checked and one of the comic shops i called said it should be out today 5/11/05. once again I'm going to try and pick it up and let you guys know how it is.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Mormegil on May 11, 2005, 07:08:58 AM
Hey guys. I'm new here.  :)

I can't believe they pushed the release date back again! It won't be at Borders for a while. For some reason, it takes about 3-4 weeks for me.
Does anyone happen to know the reason for volume 7's delay? Chris Warner posts every now and then on the Dark Horse forums, so I asked him in one of the threads, but he ignored me.  ;D

The bi-monthly release would be a great thing, but Warner gave some valid and good reasons why he feels it shouldn't happen...yet.
Some of his reasons were:
If Berserk were to change to a bi-monthly or even a monthly release, we would catch up to Japan in a short amount of time, and their release schedule would be thrown off considering Kentarou Miura puts out two volumes a year.
Also, DH wants Berserk to last a long, long time. I don't blame them. Berserk is doing remarkably well, as it should be.

DarthVenom, be sure to tell us how Volume 7 is, and I really hope there aren't too many cut off words this time. My copy of 6 had a lot.

Although this is a totally unrelated topic,"Japan" has been licensed.
http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/profile.php?sku=10-701
Same deal as King Of Wolves; Miura did the art and Buronson created the story.

Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on May 11, 2005, 02:21:42 PM
Hey guys. I'm new here.  :)

I can't believe they pushed the release date back again! It won't be at Borders for a while. For some reason, it takes about 3-4 weeks for me.
Does anyone happen to know the reason for volume 7's delay? Chris Warner posts every now and then on the Dark Horse forums, so I asked him in one of the threads, but he ignored me.  ;D

The bi-monthly release would be a great thing, but Warner gave some valid and good reasons why he feels it shouldn't happen...yet.
Some of his reasons were:
If Berserk were to change to a bi-monthly or even a monthly release, we would catch up to Japan in a short amount of time, and their release schedule would be thrown off considering Kentarou Miura puts out two volumes a year.
Also, DH wants Berserk to last a long, long time. I don't blame them. Berserk is doing remarkably well, as it should be.

DarthVenom, be sure to tell us how Volume 7 is, and I really hope there aren't too many cut off words this time. My copy of 6 had a lot.

Although this is a totally unrelated topic,"Japan" has been licensed.
http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/profile.php?sku=10-701
Same deal as King Of Wolves; Miura did the art and Buronson created the story.

Greetings Mormegil, welcome to SK.net!  I can understand their reasoning behind wanting Berserk to last a long, long time but at the rate it's going now, I'll be an old man by the time they're finished here in the States. :-\
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on May 11, 2005, 05:20:12 PM
Hey guys. I'm new here.

Hey, welcome to SK.net. :)

The bi-monthly release would be a great thing, but Warner gave some valid and good reasons why he feels it shouldn't happen...yet.

Yeah, I think some member talked about that already, or maybe posted a link. The guy's point is debatable but understandable, as you said.

Although this is a totally unrelated topic,"Japan" has been licensed.
http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/profile.php?sku=10-701
Same deal as King Of Wolves; Miura did the art and Buronson created the story.

The crappy story. ;D
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Mormegil on May 11, 2005, 08:51:02 PM
Thanks for the welcome!

I can understand their reasoning behind wanting Berserk to last a long, long time but at the rate it's going now, I'll be an old man by the time they're finished here in the States. :-\
Heh. I do agree with you.
I'm sure we'll still continue to read Berserk, even in our old age. I just hope it's appropriate reading material for the Nursing Homes.  ;D

Yeah, I think some member talked about that already, or maybe posted a link. The guy's point is debatable but understandable, as you said.
Yeah, it's honestly the only thing I agree with him about. He gave excuses for all the printing problems throughout the volumes. (We all remember Volume 5)
I'm not sure if this has been posted before but this is what he had to say on the situation:

Quote
The trim on berserk has always been a difficult issue. The occasional bad trim on artwork is often out of our hands, due to the files we receive, which have very little margin for trim. When combined with the limitations of printing presses and binderies and the number of bleed images (images that go right to the edge of the page) in the books, bad trims are inevitable. Printing is an inexact science, since paper moves very quickly through presses and the printed area isn't always exactly where it should be on individual sheets or groups of sheets. If the image is offset by even an eighth of an inch, you can get a bad trim. Then you have the binding and trimming process itrself, and that too can cause pages to shift. You can look at a set of pages laid out in a graphics program, and you'll see every page number and bottom panel line lining up straight as an arrow throughout the book--but when you then examine the printed book, you'll see quite a bit of variance, more on some presses and formats than on others. There's nothing we can do about that varaince.

Actually, if you look at the original volumes, you also see quite a few bad trims. I haven't seen Berserk serialized, and I don't know if there are some slight differences in trim proportions from those volumes to the smaller collected editions or if it's just a matter of Miura not paying enough attention to trim when he's creating his pages. As a guy who's drawn and edited a lot of comics pages, I can say that it's easy to make those kind of mistakes, especially when you produce such a large volume of pages.

One of the other logistical problems is that we have very little time to look over proofs from the printer before the books are printed. Usually, we have to turn those around same day, and those proofs have to cycle though several different departments. Again, it's just one of those things. We try to go back and fix all the stuff that slips through before we go back for new printings, but that's little consolation to those who've already bought the book. If you notice an error in one of the books, feel free to email me and let me know (chrisw@darkhorse.com). If we can, we'll fix the problem on the next printing.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't noticed any trims on the original volumes, or anything nearly as noticeable in DH's copies. I just feel they should treat Berserk with more respect and pay better attention to the printing.
A change to bi-monthly would make up for the errors. :P

The crappy story. ;D
Oh, you've read it before, Aazealh? It really doesn't sound too impressive; nonetheless, I'll still probably pick it up.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on May 12, 2005, 07:51:29 AM
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't noticed any trims on the original volumes, or anything nearly as noticeable in DH's copies. I just feel they should treat Berserk with more respect and pay better attention to the printing.

Yeah, it's just an easy excuse, and the average reader wouldn't know better. Here's an anecdote, please don't cry: when Berserk was released in Korea, volumes came out almost every week at first, and the quality was nearly perfect compared to the original. Of course, Korea is very close to Japan, but still, it makes you wonder. Since I'm at it, here are the Korean release dates (Day/Month/year):

Volume 01: 06/09/1999
Volume 02: 15/09/1999
Volume 03: 20/09/1999
Volume 04: 30/09/1999
Volume 05: 05/10/1999
Volume 06: 20/10/1999
Volume 07: 15/11/1999
Volume 08: 06/12/1999
Volume 09: 10/02/2000
Volume 10: 23/03/2000
Volume 11: 07/04/2000
Volume 12: 03/05/2000
Volume 13: 06/06/2000
Volume 14: 10/07/2000
Volume 15: 26/07/2000
Volume 16: 19/08/2000
Volume 17: 26/09/2000
Volume 18: 28/10/2000
Volume 19: 29/11/2000
Volume 20: 27/12/2000
Volume 21: 20/09/2001
Volume 22: 26/03/2002
Volume 23: 26/08/2002
Volume 24: 24/02/2003
Volume 25: 31/07/2003
Volume 26: 28/02/2004
Volume 27: 28/10/2004
Volume 28: 18/04/2005

Sorry for the place it takes, but otherwise it's hard to read. Another fun fact: years before Berserk was officially published in Korea, it was available in "pirated" illegal volumes (made from the Young Animal episodes). And I don't mean scanlations or anything, but real printed and bound volumes. Of course, that stopped when official releasing started, but these guys had a volume 13 with the Lost Episode in it (well, I'm not 100% sure about this last part). ;)

Oh, you've read it before, Aazealh?

Yeah, although not thoroughly since I don't have the book (I'll get it someday). I have Oh-roh and Oh-roh den however (thanks to my wife), and they suck plot-wise, especially Oh-Roh den (well, Oh-roh is "OK" I guess, but nothing more, and can't be compared to Berserk of course). I wouldn't say that Japan is bad (I was exaggerating), but it's certainly not a masterpiece. At best it's an entertaining read that can be interesting to compare to Berserk art-wise, but nothing more IMHO.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Mormegil on May 13, 2005, 12:06:39 AM
when Berserk was released in Korea, volumes came out almost every week at first, and the quality was nearly perfect compared to the original. Of course, Korea is very close to Japan, but still, it makes you wonder.
Wow! I really can't believe that. It took Korea about 2-3 months to release volumes 1-7 while DH took a nice snail pace of about 2 years with printing problems included.
I am beginning to wonder.

Here's an anecdote, please don't cry
Haha. Too late.  :'(

Another fun fact: years before Berserk was officially published in Korea, it was available in "pirated" illegal volumes (made from the Young Animal episodes). And I don't mean scanlations or anything, but real printed and bound volumes. Of course, that stopped when official releasing started, but these guys had a volume 13 with the Lost Episode in it
Lucky them. It would be nice of DH to include the Lost Episode in volume 13, but they would probably need Miura's consent.
Anyway, thanks for these very cool facts.

Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Vaxillus on May 13, 2005, 04:59:46 AM
Wow! I really can't believe that. It took Korea about 2-3 months to release volumes 1-7 while DH took a nice snail pace of about 2 years with printing problems included.
Look at it this way, the volumes are being translated slightly faster tha Miura takes to write them, so in about five years or so, we may have caught up. ::)
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on May 13, 2005, 07:11:28 AM
Wow! I really can't believe that. It took Korea about 2-3 months to release volumes 1-7 while DH took a nice snail pace of about 2 years with printing problems included.

Well, if it makes you feel any better, it's the same in most countries. Actually it's worse in France. :-\

Lucky them. It would be nice of DH to include the Lost Episode in volume 13, but they would probably need Miura's consent.

Yeah, I doubt it to ever happen. No other edition has it, so why the US one would? Maybe they'll release it when the series end, as some kind of appendix, like for the Berserk Prototype.

Anyway, thanks for these very cool facts.

No problemo. :)

PS: Ah yeah, just to add to the fun, the volumes are cheaper in Korea than in Japan (same thing for the PS2 game), so each volume is approximately $3 or so.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: TheSkyTraveller on May 14, 2005, 03:19:04 AM
Quote from Chris Warner:
"The trim on berserk has always been a difficult issue. The occasional bad trim on artwork is often out of our hands, due to the files we receive, which have very little margin for trim. When combined with the limitations of printing presses and binderies and the number of bleed images (images that go right to the edge of the page) in the books, bad trims are inevitable. Printing is an inexact science blah blah blah..."

Oh, boo hoo hoo!  My job is sooo hard! Feh.  Dark Horse isn't even doing the translating; Digital Manga is.  Dark Horse's only job is to print and release the volumes, and here the editor is complaining about it.  He talks about how little time they have to check out the proofs...well, I realize everyone has a schedule, but considering printing is the most important job they have to do, I think they should put a little more time and effort into it.  I know printing can be tough when it comes to matching color and value.  Hell, I've had some work print like crap, occassionally.  You never get the same thing printed the same way twice.  But it seems like DH has had so many problems with the trim, and that just seems weird to me.  I don't have any other domestic release manga with that problem, not even other DH releases. I just wish they could get it right for Berserk.  It's a shame.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't noticed any trims on the original volumes, or anything nearly as noticeable in DH's copies. I just feel they should treat Berserk with more respect and pay better attention to the printing.

I've never noticed bad trim on the Japanese volumes either, Mormegil.  But he's just shifting the blame anyway, look what he said about Miura:
"I haven't seen Berserk serialized, and I don't know if there are some slight differences in trim proportions from those volumes to the smaller collected editions or if it's just a matter of Miura not paying enough attention to trim when he's creating his pages."
Way to show respect for the creator, man. 
 ::)
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Mormegil on May 14, 2005, 04:45:05 AM
PS: Ah yeah, just to add to the fun, the volumes are cheaper in Korea than in Japan (same thing for the PS2 game), so each volume is approximately $3 or so.
$3 a volume?! Again, lucky them.  ;D
I was pleasantly surprised by the prices of the Japanese volumes. $7.49 at yesasia, for each volume. A great deal in contrast to DH's overpriced editions.

Oh, boo hoo hoo!  My job is sooo hard! Feh.  Dark Horse isn't even doing the translating; Digital Manga is.  Dark Horse's only job is to print and release the volumes, and here the editor is complaining about it.  He talks about how little time they have to check out the proofs...well, I realize everyone has a schedule, but considering printing is the most important job they have to do, I think they should put a little more time and effort into it.  I know printing can be tough when it comes to matching color and value.  Hell, I've had some work print like crap, occassionally.  You never get the same thing printed the same way twice.  But it seems like DH has had so many problems with the trim, and that just seems weird to me.  I don't have any other domestic release manga with that problem, not even other DH releases. I just wish they could get it right for Berserk.  It's a shame.
It's almost like he's trying to say printing is equivalent in difficulty to rocket science.  ::)
You're right about other manga not having the same problem. I purchase Trigun Maximum(also, DH) and there are no trims whatsoever. It really is a shame. They need to take better care with Berserk.

I've never noticed bad trim on the Japanese volumes either, Mormegil.  But he's just shifting the blame anyway, look what he said about Miura:
"I haven't seen Berserk serialized, and I don't know if there are some slight differences in trim proportions from those volumes to the smaller collected editions or if it's just a matter of Miura not paying enough attention to trim when he's creating his pages."
Way to show respect for the creator, man. 
 ::)
Exactly. His statement is rude and disrespectful but like Aazealh said, the average reader wouldn't know any better and assume it's true. Chris Warner is just throwing excuses around.

Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Vaxillus on May 14, 2005, 06:07:07 AM
PS: Ah yeah, just to add to the fun, the volumes are cheaper in Korea than in Japan (same thing for the PS2 game), so each volume is approximately $3 or so.
Sounds like what my Econ teacher said.  He bought a baseball cap in Mexico for 7 pesos.  It was a good quality cap, and would easily sell for $20 in the US.  Not sure why they're cheaper in Korea, but everything costs way more than it should in the US, since we're the world's #1 consumers.  Makes me want to move to Canada.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on May 14, 2005, 09:23:54 AM
Dark Horse's only job is to print and release the volumes, and here the editor is complaining about it.  He talks about how little time they have to check out the proofs...well, I realize everyone has a schedule, but considering printing is the most important job they have to do, I think they should put a little more time and effort into it.

Yeah, definitely. I know a bit about professional printing, and it just sounds like lame excuses for trying to get the maximum cost/earnings ratio on people's back. Basically they don't care and then whine about it like they were doing their best.

Way to show respect for the creator, man.   ::)

Ugh, I didn't see that. What a moron.

It's almost like he's trying to say printing is equivalent in difficulty to rocket science.  ::)

Well, the printers' calibration is a difficult job, but it's not like they do it themselves, they have techies to take care of that. Now if they give it the lowest of budget and print it at 3 o'clock in the morning, in between local newspapers, it sure won't look good...

everything costs way more than it should in the US, since we're the world's #1 consumers.  Makes me want to move to Canada.

Haha, funny you say that, because everything costs way more in France than in the USA. ;) We have roughly 20% of added taxes on everything.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: KuroiKenshin on May 14, 2005, 03:17:21 PM
Hey Skullnight.net friends!

     How's it going? I'm new to the boards, and I've been a HUGE Berserk fan since the anime was being released in Japan. After watching the first 5-6 eps I was just hooked and found out later that it had a manga. I had to purchase all the japanese manga to see what happened after the Eclipse!! I kept up until Volume 23 (I still have to get up to whatever they have out now.. what is it, 28?)  Of course I read the scanslations as well, though I didn't get to read the newest chapter as of yet.  I can't believe I never saw Skullnight.net online before. This is by far the best Manga/Anime series out there, and I know this isn't the proper place to introduce myself, but.. "Hi!"... anyway, on to my actual post. . . . . . . . Dark Horse Berserk Manga.  I'm (sadly) quite the "originialist"? if you will.  I have always hated US manga and even more so despised dubs. When I see a quality manga in the US, (which I admit they are getting a good hand on now), I usually pick it up.  But even my love for Berserk can't bring me to buy the pile of junk that they (DH) portray it as.  Honestly, the original manga covers are amazing and the US ones look like they are photocopies of some Faxed color picture.  Is the translation worth getting it for? Because I really don't mind having the Japanese manga's and the Fan Scanslations.  All in all, my real question is:  Is the Dark Horse version of Berserk worth spending the ?13.95? on? I mean, the Imports are only averaged at $6.50 a pop.  Having that and a scanslation is far superior in my eyes.  But to each his own! And for everyone who does love the DH version, I'm not ragging on you, I'm just asking your opinions.  Thanks for your time guys! 
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: C on May 14, 2005, 08:50:47 PM
Welcome to SK my friend! The Dark Horse manga is definitely not the top quality, but it stills keeps Miura in business when you buy it. I would like to purchase the entire collection of the Japanese version myself. Whenever they go on sale, I always get on too late, or I just can't find them. Regardless, welcome to the board, and hope you enjoy!  ;D

 - C
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Mormegil on May 14, 2005, 10:30:13 PM
Hey KuroiKenshin, welcome to Skullknight.net!

Honestly, the original manga covers are amazing and the US ones look like they are photocopies of some Faxed color picture.
The original covers are amazing looking, plus, you can remove them.
In the beginning, DH wasn't doing such a great job with the covers. They were a bit faded but the covers look a lot better now, IMO.

Is the translation worth getting it for?
I think so. DH seems to be doing a fine job with the translation and the names are correct thus far.
No Casca. Casca, instead.  :)

Because I really don't mind having the Japanese manga's and the Fan Scanslations.
You can just read along with the text translations found here.

All in all, my real question is: Is the Dark Horse version of Berserk worth spending the ?13.95? on? I mean, the Imports are only averaged at $6.50 a pop. Having that and a scanslation is far superior in my eyes. But to each his own! And for everyone who does love the DH version, I'm not ragging on you, I'm just asking your opinions. Thanks for your time guys!
It's honestly up to you. Even though DH is inferior to the original, it still supports Miura, like C said.
Then again, you really can't go wrong with buying the 28 volumes that are out now and reading along with the text translations.   
 
I didn't help, did I? Just buy both.  ;D
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: KuroiKenshin on May 14, 2005, 10:38:03 PM
Thanks for the welcome and thanks for the info.  I'll go buy the 5 or 6 Japanese manga's of Berserk that I'm missing just to support Miura and have the originals, because I love them (even down to the type of pages they use!). But as you recommend I might even buy the DH versions now, just to support the man if it actually helps.  But I've imported all my Berserk stuff down to the DC and PS2 games and realized sometimes that it doesn't really matter if it reaches the US, I'm going to get it anyway.  I'll probably end up buying the DH ones to lend out to people to get them hooked. ^_^ It's about time there's a Berserk community I find, that is excellent. Thanks to EVERYONE on here for making this place a marvelous place to share info (I'll be hanging around the boards a bunch and sharing my idea's as well).
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on May 15, 2005, 08:04:25 AM
Hey Skullnight.net friends!

Welcome aboard. :)

^_^ It's about time there's a Berserk community I find, that is excellent. Thanks to EVERYONE on here for making this place a marvelous place to share info (I'll be hanging around the boards a bunch and sharing my idea's as well).

No problemo, and don't hesitate to check older threads, some of them contain a lot of informations.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Darth on June 02, 2005, 04:41:36 AM
ok i know this is kind of late i have had issue 7 since the day it came out and i have to say its pretty damn good. i mean I'm no translator or even anything close to one,  but i cant seem to find anything wrong with this issue.

i still have heard nothing about the release date for issue 9 in English. and issue 8 still has the same release date
7/13/05
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Vaxillus on June 02, 2005, 06:02:50 AM
I just got vol7 recently.  I was fine, until I statred noticing how at least half the people talk with a southern accent.  Lots for stuff like 'cause, gonna, doin', etc.  It gets irritating after a while.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Opie on June 02, 2005, 06:57:46 AM
Yeah. They should try to give the nobles, at least, a more articulate/cultured flair when they speak.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Some Guy on June 04, 2005, 07:06:07 PM
The best thing I noticed about this release was that there was no noticeable cutoff.

As far as translation, the thing that kind of irked my the most was that Raban was seplled "Laban"  (though this seens to be the typical problem L and R translations).  Aside from that, it was good.

Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: SuicideCommand0 on June 04, 2005, 10:24:33 PM
They posted the Preview to issue 8 but, still no date for 9 :-\
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: EndlessSky on June 04, 2005, 11:03:14 PM
I've just begun to buy the manga, English version though.... I'm hoping they start releasing monthly because that would be perfect for me, and I don't see what is taking them so long, I mean its the same thing as the Japanese version, just different words, not too hard if you have a translator, I guess they are worried about cost in making it and sales the most, which they shouldn't because it seems popular over in America, the place I bought the English version from was almost completely sold out.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Hippie on June 05, 2005, 12:01:57 AM
They posted the Preview to issue 8 but, still no date for 9 :-\

Hello all, I'm new here. :)

If it makes you feel any better, I work for a book store.  Issue 8 is suppose to be the  13th of july and issue 9 is suppose to be around the middle of October, either the 11th or 18th.  The news broadcast wasnt sure which date, but it will be one of those two.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on June 05, 2005, 08:25:17 AM
I don't see what is taking them so long, I mean its the same thing as the Japanese version, just different words, not too hard if you have a translator

Reason as to why it takes them time were given earlier in this thread. And translating isn't easy anyway, a month is short to translate Berserk.

Hello all, I'm new here. :)

Hey, welcome to SK.net! :)
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Hippie on June 05, 2005, 03:36:34 PM
Thanks ;)

My big problem with Dark Horse and Berserk is the contract DH has with the original Japanese company.   How many volumes did they get? If they got only say the first 28, will they continue after that?  Or will they stop alot earlier than that?

I really hope they publish it all and don't stop but you can never tell with corporations some times.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: EndlessSky on June 05, 2005, 11:23:26 PM
Ah ok, thanks Aazealh, I must have missed that, and ya hope they publish them all but worse comes to worse you can always buy the Japanese version.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: tuxedo_nat on June 08, 2005, 01:08:06 PM
The time delay is all due to language/market.  I'm British, but am living in Germany as part of my university studies. Here, they've published up to volume 27, and volume 28 is due out next month.

Maybe it takes so long to get in English because Dark Horse need to print more copies.  Apart from Germany, Austria, and parts of Switzerland & Belgium, German as a language isn't used that much internationally.  For the English market, they need to produce enough for EVERY English-speaking nation, and also for countries where it's used more than the native language (Scandinavia, Iceland, etc.)

Maybe things would go quicker if a 3-party translation was sorted out.  If Miura gave permission to a German publisher to translate, DH could ask to translate the German edition: unless the text ends up too far from the original Japanese, it's a feasible idea (at least to me :-\ )
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on June 08, 2005, 01:57:03 PM
Maybe it takes so long to get in English because Dark Horse need to print more copies.

Nope. Same thing than for Zelz: please read earlier posts in this thread, Dark Horse has stated its reasons for having a trimestrial release rate.

Here, they've published up to volume 27, and volume 28 is due out next month.

They started releasing it fairly recently (05/2001), but they had monthly releases, that's why it caught up so fast.

For the English market, they need to produce enough for EVERY English-speaking nation, and also for countries where it's used more than the native language (Scandinavia, Iceland, etc.)

They're just publishing it in America as far as I know. Other countries can import it if they want, but it's not like Dark Horse is sending Berserk manga everywhere in the world to satisfy a huge demand. They're just printing a certain amount that they plan will sell, and then wait to see what happens, re-printing when needed.

Maybe things would go quicker if a 3-party translation was sorted out.

Hmm, re-translating an existing translation in another language is usually a big no-no... The resulting translation's quality would probably be pretty bad. Anyway, Digital Manga takes care of the translation for Dark Horse, I don't think they would have any trouble releasing the manga bi-monthly if they wanted to.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Darth on June 09, 2005, 11:06:02 PM
ok Darkhorse now has a date set for the 9th issue of Berserk to drop. and guess what its not 2 months from issue number 8 its 3 months ::). berserk issue 9 drops on
10/12/05. so i guess we can kiss a bi-monthly series goodbye (for now) I'm sorry but this kind of stuff pisses me off. it does not take three months for a manga to be translated,printed and the distributed ::).
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: EndlessSky on June 09, 2005, 11:32:24 PM
Ya, it makes me angry too espeically because im following the English release, I recently bought volume 1 of Berserk, my first manga ever hehe, so Im hoping it picks up, but if I really need to I could get the Japanese version, but I prefer it in English. If they released it monthly or even bi-monthly that would be great...
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Sufida on June 10, 2005, 06:54:40 AM
Way I see it, Dark Horse wants a steady cash flow. If they released each volume every month eventually they wouldn't have anything to release for a very long time. Having them three months apart give time for more volumes to develop in Japan and most likely around the time Dark Horse does catch up it'll be around the end of the series assumingly so. If the series was already over, they probably wouldn't be hesitant to release them faster like LW&C.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: KuraiDragoon on June 10, 2005, 06:00:08 PM
I used to complain about them not being released fast enough too.. but honestly it seems fast to me now. I still have yet to buy the 7th volume.. although I guess that has more to do with me being broke all the time. Still though.. 3 months flies by quick.. and we're already almost 1/3 of the way up to the japanese releases.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Hippie on June 10, 2005, 09:27:20 PM
Hey just remember it could be worse :)   They could be publishing each episode as a single issue comic book once a month
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: EndlessSky on June 10, 2005, 11:34:02 PM
Ya, I mean I only got volume 1... so they can take their time I dont plan on buying the next volume for atleast another month, I just hope it gets steady by the time I catch up to them, I just dont want to spend the next 5 years waiting on the new berserk releases lol...
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: handsome rakshas on June 15, 2005, 11:49:39 PM
YEAH!
HURRY UP DARK WHORES!
use spell check? nah...
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: aufond on June 16, 2005, 10:24:25 AM
I don't think Dark Horse would stop publishing Berserk, because they are probably making a shitload of money off of it.  I've talked to lots of comicbook store clerks and they all say Berserk sells like holy hell.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rage Incarnate on June 16, 2005, 01:48:14 PM
I don't think Dark Horse would stop publishing Berserk,

Who said they would?

Hasn't this whole conversation been done earlier in the thread?

"Why won't they speed up?" "Because they want to..." etc.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Darth on June 16, 2005, 02:47:47 PM
I don't think Dark Horse would stop publishing Berserk, because they are probably making a shitload of money off of it.  I've talked to lots of comicbook store clerks and they all say Berserk sells like holy hell.
who would you rather see publish it in English. my only problem with DarkHorse is that they take to long
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on June 16, 2005, 02:48:09 PM
Hasn't this whole conversation been done earlier in the thread?

Several times already. That's why if this keeps going on I'll eventually lock it.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Void Swordsman on June 19, 2005, 01:37:19 PM
Makes me want to move to Canada.

Well, you obviously haven't lived in Canada before, seeing as stuff here is SOOO much more expensive than in the US. I wish i could live in US seeing as the volumes there cost only 13.99, here they cost around 20 FUCKING DOLLARS!!!!!!!!!!!

Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: EndlessSky on June 19, 2005, 08:13:19 PM
Wow, well from where I buy the english verison of the manga its only 10 dollars a volume which is a pretty good deal.... that sucks that it is like twice that in Canada, maybe because of imports, marketing etc.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: handsome rakshas on June 30, 2005, 01:05:11 AM
it indeed sucks it takes dark horse so long to do this but..
in the mean time you could read BLEACH!
IT RULES!
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on July 04, 2005, 02:34:36 PM
in the mean time you could read BLEACH!
IT RULES!

I think I'll pass...
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Tell Me Why on July 04, 2005, 10:19:28 PM
Bleach and Berserk are really the only manga I buy. I'll buy Gantz too if that ever gets licensed.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Hippie on July 04, 2005, 10:43:03 PM
Hellsing is another good one.  slightly less violent than berserk (only slightly though) and has a very interesting story.  If you like gunplay and vampires give it a shot :)
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Omega Tom Hanks on August 03, 2005, 08:34:07 PM
after they have caught up to jet how long would it take them to release the volume after it was released in japan!!

any ways im suspecting 4 months or maybe 3 moths to release it in america after its release date in japan!
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on August 04, 2005, 08:04:58 AM
any ways im suspecting 4 months or maybe 3 moths to release it in america after its release date in japan!

We're not there yet, so there's hardly any way to know for sure, but 3 or 4 months seems like a good estimation to me.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: handsome rakshas on August 05, 2005, 10:48:09 PM
Bleach and Berserk are really the only manga I buy. I'll buy Gantz too if that ever gets licensed.

you have superb taste
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Vaxillus on August 08, 2005, 07:50:21 PM
Well, you obviously haven't lived in Canada before, seeing as stuff here is SOOO much more expensive than in the US. I wish i could live in US seeing as the volumes there cost only 13.99, here they cost around 20 FUCKING DOLLARS!!!!!!!!!!!
Is that 20 US $ or 20 Canadian $?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Alucalb on August 08, 2005, 10:14:20 PM
$20 Canadian. Plus tax it's $25.51
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Void Swordsman on August 09, 2005, 03:33:11 AM
Yeah, it sucks to live in Canada  :judo:. But I want to raise another point: Why is Dark Horse manga more expensive than normal manga? I mean both Berserk and Blade of the Immortal (best seres in existence!  :guts:) cost 20 bucks and they're both from Dark Horse, while other manga from like viz and tokyopop costs like 14 bucks here? In my opinion, I think that Dark Horse might be a pretty poor company and they charge more for these mangas because of their demand. Or it could just be that they're such a high quality. :miura:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Alucalb on August 09, 2005, 05:45:10 AM
There's one upside to DH's tri-monthly release dates, it gives you time to save up for a copy.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Void Swordsman on August 10, 2005, 03:00:12 AM
There's one upside to DH's tri-monthly release dates, it gives you time to save up for a copy.

You got me there, my friend.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: handsome rakshas on August 10, 2005, 11:48:00 PM
There's one upside to DH's tri-monthly release dates, it gives you time to save up for a copy.

I hope it dosen't take you that long to save 13.95.
How about this alucalb, if you(or anyone else) can persuade dark horse to release it bi-monthly I will buy and have shipped to your house every volume they release.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Alucalb on August 11, 2005, 01:19:14 AM
Do you have a reading disorder? :P I just said it's twenty-five fucking dollars in Canada. I have eight volumes now, that's about $200 worth of books. You Yanks should be so lucky it's a bit cheaper down south. :puck:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: dwarfkicker on August 11, 2005, 02:39:23 AM
Quote
I just said it's twenty-five fucking dollars in Canada.

It's not just 25 dollars.  It's 25 fucking dollars.  Ha, maybe you should pack your bags and move south, chief  :carcus:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Alucalb on August 12, 2005, 08:07:30 PM
Heh, and maybe I'll bring redria with me. "The Adventures Of Billy-Bob and Red!"

Anyway, twenty-plus bucks is steep for any graphic novel, especially one that can be read through pretty quickly. If it's a phone book-sized epic like, say, Akira or The Watchmen, twenty or forty would seem fair for such lengthy books, IMO.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Darth on August 28, 2005, 04:58:03 AM
i just re-read number 8 and it reminds me of how great an issue it is. on that note they have the date for issue 9 still set for 10/12/05. now what I'm surprised about is that there is still no official date for issue 10 to drop yet (which is kind of frustrating :miura:)

just in case you don't have issue 8 yet i have to say its high quality and absolutely amazing. great book.

as soon as i hear anything on the release of issue 10 i will post it immediately.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: KuraiDragoon on August 28, 2005, 05:28:42 AM
I just got #8 yesterday, I'll have to read it tonight.. after re-reading 7 first.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Alucalb on August 28, 2005, 06:46:59 AM
i just re-read number 8 and it reminds me of how great an issue it is. on that note they have the date for issue 9 still set for 10/12/05. now what I'm surprised about is that there is still no official date for issue 10 to drop yet (which is kind of frustrating

I assume it'll be out in January.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Mugwump101 on August 29, 2005, 07:29:06 PM
I wanted to buy volume 3 today but I had a bit of a dilemma! What is it with Dark Horse and their badly printed manga? I don't think I've seen this mistake with any other manga company lol.

But the problem was that there were two different copies and I was comparing them and the covers were totally different in color. One was partly green/Sharp printing and the other partly blue/blurry printing! I was just browsing threw online but it turns out the the blue one was accurate but it's blurry.

Why can't they print well?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on August 29, 2005, 08:14:19 PM
Why can't they print well?

Like it was said in the past, it probably has to do with the companies they give the job (printing) to, and how much they pay for it. Apparently they're tightwads and prefer to get a cheap and shitty printing rather than paying a bit more for a quality edition. Seems like they didn't think that low quality printing and paper would play a role in people buying the books or not. :schierke:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: CnC on August 29, 2005, 08:24:12 PM
I didn't know they had shotty printing.  That blows.
Is it too much to ask that it be printed decently (as large as friggin possible?!?!?!

I want some akira sized berserk books.  I'd have no qualms at all about spending more on them then.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Darth on August 29, 2005, 10:51:40 PM
I wanted to buy volume 3 today but I had a bit of a dilemma! What is it with Dark Horse and their badly printed manga? I don't think I've seen this mistake with any other manga company lol.

But the problem was that there were two different copies and I was comparing them and the covers were totally different in color. One was partly green/Sharp printing and the other partly blue/blurry printing! I was just browsing threw online but it turns out the the blue one was accurate but it's blurry.

Why can't they print well?
that sucks that you had problems with they're printings of berserk. i have never had a problem with any of they're printings. its pretty much always been top notch to me.

I want some akira sized berserk books. I'd have no qualms at all about spending more on them then.
lol keep dreaming dude :guts:.

they're Akira set (of 6 books) was great, kinda expensive but great.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Mormegil on August 30, 2005, 01:11:53 AM
i just re-read number 8 and it reminds me of how great an issue it is. on that note they have the date for issue 9 still set for 10/12/05.

Nice. One day before my birthday. :serpico: I hope they put the preview up soon. It's usually taken from the first couple of pages, and we all know what happens at the beginning of volume 9. :SK: All the fans who are reading Berserk for the first time are in for a great volume.

just in case you don't have issue 8 yet i have to say its high quality and absolutely amazing. great book.

Were there any cut off words or such? I haven't bought the volume yet, but 7 was free of problems except for them labeling Casca, chapter 3 as Casca, chapter 1 in my copy. Funny how they do this when it's written in Japanese right above. Oh well, it's nothing to get bothered by anyway.

I want some akira sized berserk books. I'd have no qualms at all about spending more on them then.

I wish! I think it would be the least they could do in compensation for some horrible errors.

I was wondering if anyone here could give me an answer for something. This is a translation question, but since it pertains to Dark Horse, I figured I'd ask in this thread. Raban's name was changed to "Laban" in Dark Horse's version of volume 7; is this accurate? They've always done a great job with the names before, but "Laban" sounds kind of weird to me. 
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on August 30, 2005, 01:23:07 AM
Raban's name was changed to "Laban" in Dark Horse's version of volume 7; is this accurate? They've always done a great job with the names before, but "Laban" sounds kind of weird to me.

I don't like "Laban" much either, and I actually posted once about a possible origin for his name (http://www.skullknight.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=4580.msg93958#msg93958) (it's really just a guess though).

Still, there's no confirmed official spelling, and so it could be "Laban" as well as "Raban", for all we know. Just a matter of personal preference from the translator.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Alucalb on August 30, 2005, 05:59:35 AM
At least "Laban" doesn't sound as stupid as "Zolo", but that's a rant for another time. :schierke:

Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on August 30, 2005, 12:06:55 PM
At least "Laban" doesn't sound as stupid as "Zolo", but that's a rant for another time.

If you mean from One Piece, the fact that the characters' names are written in romaji through the series makes any error of this kind unacceptable. Then again, looking at some editions of Berserk and the way they spell names... :schierke:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Mormegil on August 31, 2005, 03:57:49 AM
I don't like "Laban" much either, and I actually posted once about a possible origin for his name (http://www.skullknight.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=4580.msg93958#msg93958) (it's really just a guess though).

Still, there's no confirmed official spelling, and so it could be "Laban" as well as "Raban", for all we know. Just a matter of personal preference from the translator.

Thanks for the answer. I was afraid they made an error with the translation. "Laban" isn't horribly bad, but I'm probably going to stick with "Raban." It just sounds much better, IMO.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: BillyBudd on September 11, 2005, 11:15:00 PM
I emailed Dark Horse last night about this. I told them that I would like to continue to support their releases (I have all of them so far), but I don't like the idea of waiting 6 or more years to catch up with the Japanese. That's a LONG time. I can be patient, but not that patient. In my opinion, they should be releasing a volume every month. In the e-mail, I asked them to change it to bi-monthly though.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: gh-zodd on September 12, 2005, 02:21:13 AM
3 months is for 1 volume isnt so bad.  I just reciecved vol 1-8 in the mail from amazon.  Il order another 10 volumes or so in a few years :)

I even put some of the manga scanlations on my psp, and watch them on the bus on my way to work, its quite nice :)
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: handsome rakshas on September 12, 2005, 04:22:04 AM
At least "Laban" doesn't sound as stupid as "Zolo", but that's a rant for another time. :schierke:



Amen to that!
BUT!
the english voice actor for zolo (zoro) is our good buddy who played guts in berserk! Isn't that cool?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Alucalb on September 12, 2005, 05:28:04 AM
the english voice actor for zolo (zoro) is our good buddy who played guts in berserk! Isn't that cool?

It would be if he didn't suck at both roles. :puck:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: handsome rakshas on September 12, 2005, 05:52:22 AM
It would be if he didn't suck at both roles. :puck:

are you serious? He's the only VA in one piece that I could stand. And I think he did a whiz bang job in berserk.(still not as good as Canna Nobutoshi, but still good.)
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Alucalb on September 12, 2005, 06:19:33 AM
He's not the worst dub actor ever (that dubious honour goes to the putz who voices Sanji), but his Zoro lacks the edge or aggression the character ought to have. Even if I've never seen a fansub before, I'd expect Zoro to sound like a grizzled bastard, not a Dragon Ball reject.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: handsome rakshas on September 12, 2005, 06:26:59 AM
He's not the worst dub actor ever (that dubious honour goes to the putz who voices Sanji), but his Zoro lacks the edge or aggression the character ought to have. Even if I've never seen a fansub before, I'd expect Zoro to sound like a grizzled bastard, not a Dragon Ball reject.

well at least we agree that sanji sounds like a re-re. It pains me to think of what has been done to one piece since the japanese version is so awesome.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Alucalb on September 12, 2005, 02:44:45 PM
Then there's the editing, like muskets and pistols changed into supersoakers and popguns. WTF? They keep all the sharp pointy swords, but change the firearms into, well, waterarms? Pirates don't get those eyepatches and peg legs fighting with NERF weapons, you know.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: handsome rakshas on September 13, 2005, 12:36:55 AM
Then there's the editing, like muskets and pistols changed into supersoakers and popguns. WTF? They keep all the sharp pointy swords, but change the firearms into, well, waterarms? Pirates don't get those eyepatches and peg legs fighting with NERF weapons, you know.

don't  forget to stop at the bar and get some grog! WAIT! NO GROG? WHAT THE HELL IS POWER JUICE?


and come to think of it, what was this topic about? Dark Horse? wow! I've just been ranting about one piece! sorry for being off topic
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Alucalb on September 13, 2005, 04:17:44 AM
Meh, what more can we say about the topic than "Dark Horse should speed up Berserk!", anyway?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Darth on September 13, 2005, 10:55:02 PM
ok issue 10 is set to come out 1/25/06

issue 9 is still set to come out 10/12/05

ill keep you guys up to date on any changes of dates or anything that i learn. and yes i know 0 fucking 6 (come on darkhorse do what this thread topic says lol)
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Vladimir on September 17, 2005, 07:38:05 AM
For us,in france,it's 1 book all 2 months. :zodd:
So,it's long too! :judo:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on September 17, 2005, 12:30:57 PM
So,it's long too! :judo:

Still faster than Dark Horse though, can't complain. :void: One volume every month like in Germany would have been nice, but it requires several translators working together on it and a solid editing company not to screw up.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Vladimir on September 17, 2005, 01:07:24 PM
Still faster than Dark Horse though, can't complain. :void: One volume every month like in Germany would have been nice, but it requires several translators working together on it and a solid editing company not to screw up.
Yeah,but,why is there just one personn working on it,and not many?(I cannot understand that :void:)
And beside,"Glénat"(the french company)is not so that poor
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on September 17, 2005, 01:48:44 PM
Yeah,but,why is there just one personn working on it,and not many?(I cannot understand that :void:)

Would cost too much. Besides, releasing too many volumes too quickly would be a loss of money for them in the long run given all the titles on the market. At least, that's what they think.

And beside,"Glénat"(the french company)is not so that poor

I know, Dark Horse isn't poor either. Their goal isn't to sacrifice their profits in order to create better products though, but the contrary.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: -rob- on September 17, 2005, 03:11:45 PM
What I'm worried about is DarkHorse giving up after 10 or 15 or something like that.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: BillyBudd on September 17, 2005, 03:55:44 PM
They need to get to Volume 14 ASAP because I want to know what happens after the anime.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Vladimir on September 17, 2005, 04:13:15 PM
That's the problem:They probably not continue the serie,if maybe this serie have no succes.
Are the Berserk manga is populary,in your country?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: The Perineum Falcon on September 17, 2005, 04:56:11 PM
What I'm worried about is DarkHorse giving up after 10 or 15 or something like that.
I don't think there's any cause for worry. From what I've heard, they're doing fairly well.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: scroto on September 17, 2005, 09:41:41 PM
The Berserk graphic novels have been top sellers in there catergory for every month that they come out here in the U.S.

From my own personal views every time I go throught the local Manga sections to see whats out, the Berserk section is never stocked. Now I know that sounds bad, but it isn't. My reason is that, I know from working at a bookstore that when a book, particulalrly one with many volumes, like Berserk, has multiple releases in a year the store isn't going to order older copies for the sake of having the entire series available on the shelf, but would be more prone to order several copies of the more recent and new releases of that series.

Back to my main point, because I never see it at all on the shelves except for maybe one stray volume surrounded by FULLY STOCKED series like Bleach and Naruto and the other multiple titles (talking full set volumes 1-current) means that people are picking up the later releases, Frequently. I think that is awesome, because that means new berserk fans are reading this stuff everyday, more then the other titles available. And if they didn't already have the older volumes they will seek them out, or they are the blood thirsty crazy fans like me who can't wait for the next volume to come out!

At least I think so, considering how many people I have turned onto Berserk in the last three years!  :guts:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on September 17, 2005, 09:57:08 PM
They need to get to Volume 14 ASAP because I want to know what happens after the anime.

Noticing that only now, I just want to tell you that volume 9, 10 and 11 aren't wasted time even if you've watched the anime a hundred times. Believe me, they're worth their price. Needless to say, 12 and 13 are great too. :guts:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: jackson_hurley on November 08, 2005, 05:45:53 PM
Noticing that only now, I just want to tell you that volume 9, 10 and 11 aren't wasted time even if you've watched the anime a hundred times. Believe me, they're worth their price. Needless to say, 12 and 13 are great too. :guts:

i must agree especially since theres soooo much stuff in these books compared to the series!

What I'm worried about is DarkHorse giving up after 10 or 15 or something like that.

i doubt that..i've seen a post somewhere on their board that they are far from stopping it..
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Tell Me Why on November 11, 2005, 11:44:51 PM
I'm grateful for what DH is doing here despite their slow release times. I watched the anime and then started reading the manga where the anime left off so I missed quite a few things from anime episode 1-25. Like, I never saw the encounter Guts has with the Skull Knight in volume 9.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Chris Warner on November 14, 2005, 04:56:15 PM
i must agree especially since theres soooo much stuff in these books compared to the series!

i doubt that..i've seen a post somewhere on their board that they are far from stopping it..

Hi everybody,

Chris Warner here, Dark Horse editor of Berserk. Believe me, no chance we'll stop publishing Berserk. Just in the way that business is done on the title, we contract three volumes at a time, and we're about to contract through volume 15, but I'd say with about 99% certainty that we'll be with the series to the end. The books have been very strong sellers for us—especially of note since a major mass-market retailer won't rack adults-only titles, offering them only as special orders—and we're currently exploring increasing the schedule to bi-monthly (if this happens, the first bi-monthly release would be in fall 2006). If we are able to go bimonthly, I'll spill the beans here first.

Chris
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: CnC on November 14, 2005, 05:34:41 PM
The books have been very strong sellers for us

Thats great news.
Congrats
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: jackson_hurley on November 14, 2005, 06:20:58 PM
we're currently exploring increasing the schedule to bi-monthly

thats some good news too for me!  :guts:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Darth on November 14, 2005, 10:57:25 PM
Hi everybody,

Chris Warner here, Dark Horse editor of Berserk. Believe me, no chance we'll stop publishing Berserk. Just in the way that business is done on the title, we contract three volumes at a time, and we're about to contract through volume 15, but I'd say with about 99% certainty that we'll be with the series to the end. The books have been very strong sellers for us—especially of note since a major mass-market retailer won't rack adults-only titles, offering them only as special orders—and we're currently exploring increasing the schedule to bi-monthly (if this happens, the first bi-monthly release would be in fall 2006). If we are able to go bimonthly, I'll spill the beans here first.

Chris

Thanks Chris. just to let you know i buy a lot of Dark Horse products. such as comics from various Alien/Predator series, the Akira Series (which i will say is amazing) and a some diffrent Star Wars titles. And, i have to say that the Berserk Manga series is my favorite Dark Horse product yet. i have bought everyone of them and will continue to do so. So a bi-monthly release schedule will definitely be a great idea, hopefully it will happen in the fall of 2006.  :guts:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: handsome rakshas on November 19, 2005, 02:48:29 AM
An angel has descended and his name is Chris Warner! I would be so happy with a bi monthly release! This is good news indeed and shows that Dark Horse loves us! Heres hoping for fall of 2006!
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Darkadien Zurel on November 19, 2005, 12:25:42 PM
Thats what i love about this board :). Got everything you need here, information no one else has :D.

We <3 you Chris Warner, make it bi-monthly please :).

It's hard enough waiting the 6 months or so to import each issue as it comes out in Japan lol, re-reading the Dark Horse prints helps me take up time and brush back up on what i may have forgotten.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: THE BEAST on November 26, 2005, 08:27:19 PM
Very awsome indeed, thanks Chris...but i have to say as much is it may suck waiting 3 months for a volume it's not nearly as bad as the wait between Blade of the Immortal volumes.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Darth on December 09, 2005, 12:01:39 AM
ok Dark Horse has set Volume 11 to drop on 4/12/06 :guts:

volume 10 is still set to drop on 1/25/06
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on December 09, 2005, 01:08:44 AM
ok Dark Horse has set Volume 11 to drop on 4/12/06 :guts:

volume 10 is still set to drop on 1/25/06

Right on, thanks for the heads-up! :serpico:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: EndlessSky on December 09, 2005, 10:40:27 PM
Atleast they are making progress... but really I'm thinking of going with the Japanese version.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Darth on December 10, 2005, 03:30:18 AM
Atleast they are making progress... but really I'm thinking of going with the Japanese version.
yeah they are making progress, hopefully it will be bimonthly. anyway the Japanese version is amazing, but to anyone who wants to read it in English i have to say i believe DarkHorse does an amazing job.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Chris Warner on December 14, 2005, 04:16:11 PM
Very awsome indeed, thanks Chris...but i have to say as much is it may suck waiting 3 months for a volume it's not nearly as bad as the wait between Blade of the Immortal volumes.

Hi everybody,

Chris Warner here, Dark Horse Berserk editor. Good news! Assuming everything works out contractually, it looks like we'll be moving the Berserk schedule up to bimonthly starting with volume 13, which will be moved up to a September 20 2006 ship date (which would put it on-sale in comics shops September 27 and sometime in early October in the mass-market bookstores). We can't start this schedule any sooner than #13, because we had to set dates for earlier 2006 titles a long time ago for our distributors.

Anyway, more books for you, more work for me--Merry Christmas!

Chris
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on December 14, 2005, 04:24:23 PM
Good news! Assuming everything works out contractually, it looks like we'll be moving the Berserk schedule up to bimonthly starting with volume 13

Hi Chris, excellent news, thanks for informing us this early. That's a neat Christmas present. :guts:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: jackson_hurley on December 14, 2005, 04:37:13 PM

 it looks like we'll be moving the Berserk schedule up to bimonthly starting with volume 13


that is just amazing! thx for the great news chris!
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: CnC on December 14, 2005, 05:00:37 PM
Great news, Chris.  We appreciate the extra effort!
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: EndlessSky on December 14, 2005, 07:02:54 PM
Great!, I am very happy to hear this, and thanks for taking for the time to come on here and tell us.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Tenro on December 15, 2005, 06:34:30 AM
Can't.... stop.... dancing.... jig....

Seriously though, if this works out and the translation stays the same quality, this is some of the best news I've heard all month!
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Tell Me Why on December 16, 2005, 03:42:41 PM
Excellent news! It seems like the Berserk manga take forever to be released. And what the heck was up with Volume 9? The text would be cut off at the edge of the page so you just had to assume what they were saying. I hope they don't repeat that in volume 10.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: handsome rakshas on December 16, 2005, 09:45:32 PM
I am very happy indeed! Thats the greatest birthday/ christmas present ever!
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Tenro on December 17, 2005, 05:58:23 AM
What the heck was up with Volume 9? The text would be cut off at the edge of the page so you just had to assume what they were saying.
I don't remember this. Can you cite a spot for me to look for it, beacuse maybe you got a bad printing.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Kagami on December 17, 2005, 07:59:03 PM
I don't remember this. Can you cite a spot for me to look for it, beacuse maybe you got a bad printing.

mine was fine as well. I think the fella just got bad luck :/
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Jhot obs on December 18, 2005, 06:16:18 AM
Awesome news about the sped up release of Berserk in the US. At that rate, we'll get to volume 14 by next Christmas. Great to hear this news. :)
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Chris Warner on December 21, 2005, 04:40:19 PM
Excellent news! It seems like the Berserk manga take forever to be released. And what the heck was up with Volume 9? The text would be cut off at the edge of the page so you just had to assume what they were saying. I hope they don't repeat that in volume 10.

Hi. Chris Warner from Dark Horse here. This problem does crop up every so often, mostly due to the very tight fit we have to deal with in some of the bleed pages (where artwork goes right to the edge fo the paper), particularly in small panels that doen't have a lot of extra room to expand balloons; if the paper shifts even a little in printing or trimming (which happens all the time), stuff close to the trim line can get clipped. It's not unusual for most of the copies to be fine and some to get some shift, which is just the nature of a big sheet of paper being printed with a 32 story pages (16 to a side), then folded, bound, and trimmed, all very fast and with relatively imprecise mechanical and human systems. If a sheet shifts by even 1/8", stuff can easily get clipped when the margin for error is so low. Since Japanese is written vertically and English horizontally, text fitting in small panels can be very problematic, since you don't want to cover up critical art with expanded word balloons. That said, any time you see something like this, or any other error, let me know (chrisw@darkhorse.com) with specifics and we'll try to correct it in a future printing.

BTW, could somebody do me a favor and email me a list of the total book page counts (including front and back matter) of the Japanese Berserk editions from volumes 13 on? I'd be much obliged.

Thanks a lot for supporting the book, everybody, and have a Happy Holiday!
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: scroto on December 22, 2005, 09:26:41 AM
Oh wow I just found out about this from another site that is saying another site is quoting us!! Hot damn Skullknight.net just got mad, mad props all over the internet!
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on December 22, 2005, 03:47:51 PM
BTW, could somebody do me a favor and email me a list of the total book page counts (including front and back matter) of the Japanese Berserk editions from volumes 13 on? I'd be much obliged.

Hi Chris, you can find that kind of information in the SK.net Berserk Encyclopedia (link) (http://www.skullknight.net/manga/).

Oh wow I just found out about this from another site that is saying another site is quoting us!! Hot damn Skullknight.net just got mad, mad props all over the internet!

Hahaha, well if people always cited their source when taking stuff from here, the props would be neverending. :badbone:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Chris Warner on December 22, 2005, 05:50:53 PM
Hi Chris, you can find that kind of information in the SK.net Berserk Encyclopedia (link) (http://www.skullknight.net/manga/).

Actually, dope that I am, I finally stumbled over the Encyclopedia about ten seconds before I read this. "Hmm, wonder what this is... Doh!"

Thanks for your help!

Chris
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: scroto on December 22, 2005, 08:30:05 PM
No, really they totally had the props to Skullknight.net!

Look!

http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=22064
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: CnC on December 22, 2005, 08:40:56 PM
No, really they totally had the props to Skullknight.net!

Look!

http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=22064

They point to a news site that points to us about the post Chris Warner made about it being bi-monthly.  Other than that this website isn't mentioned.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on December 23, 2005, 02:57:26 AM
Apparently they got their information from SkullKnight himself.  :badbone:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: CnC on December 23, 2005, 03:06:35 AM
Apparently they got their information from SkullKnight himself.  :badbone:

Is he still around?  Haven't seen him since BSOM...  :guts:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Nomad on December 23, 2005, 08:02:32 AM
Apparently they got their information from SkullKnight himself.  :badbone:
  Just to show you that the efforts done by you and those who work for this community are noticed.  Never seen people like Mr. Warner going to forums giving exclusive info.  Kudos to all of you and thank you very much Mr. Warner, your news is very refreshing.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Darth on December 27, 2005, 03:26:22 PM
That is absolutely great news Chris. Thanks :guts:

EDIT:
volume 10 is still set to drop on 1/25/06
Date Change

ok Dark Horse has pushed up the release date of volume 10 to 1/11/06  :guts:

volume 11 is still set to drop on 4/12/06
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: jackson_hurley on January 06, 2006, 08:50:40 PM

ok Dark Horse has pushed up the release date of volume 10 to 1/11/06  :guts:


thx man! i hate when dark horse change their date at the last minute! a few days ago vol 10 was supposed to go out last wednesday 1/04/06! oh well another week to wait! haha thats fine with me! im used to it anyway! :)
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: SMZKAH on January 12, 2006, 12:23:59 AM
Hmmm weird.  I called my local Boarders back on the 4th, before I checked this thread, to see if they had received volume 10 yet.  They said they expected it to arrive in two days.  Anyway, I found out the release date was pushed back to today (the 11th) so I called again.  They said they had two on order but the release was pushed back to the 31st.  Is anyone else having this problem or is my local Boarders not very reliable?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: IsolatioN on January 13, 2006, 09:40:03 PM
hmm, I had a similar problem, except I was ordering online through Amazon. It seems the date change was very sudden, or I would guess that; allot of people I know are having similar difficulties.

Ahh well, they should ship soon :)
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Simon on January 15, 2006, 07:49:34 PM
I emailed the Amazon seller that I usually but the mangas from on Friday to see if they had Volume 10 in stock, but they haven't replied yet.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Chris Warner on January 20, 2006, 04:50:28 PM
Hmmm weird.  I called my local Boarders back on the 4th, before I checked this thread, to see if they had received volume 10 yet.  They said they expected it to arrive in two days.  Anyway, I found out the release date was pushed back to today (the 11th) so I called again.  They said they had two on order but the release was pushed back to the 31st.  Is anyone else having this problem or is my local Boarders not very reliable?

Hi everybody,

Chris Warner here, Dark Horse Berserk guy, yadda yadda. Anyway, something of note regarding release dates is that our official on-sale dates are regarding the specialty market (comics shops), whose on-sale dates are almost always exactly one week after the book ships from Diamond Distribution warehouses. Since practically every individual comics shop is shipped directly from Diamond, books hit the store and are usually on the shelves the same day, and it's a very clockwork process, only affected by the occasional shipping delay or fulfillment error. In the book market, however, it's a much more convoluted process, and for the big chains, books are generally shipped to regional warehouses, where books are then broken down into shipments to individual stores (this is similar for smaller independent booksellers, who generally get their books from large regional sub-distributors like Ingram or Baker and Taylor). Therefore, the actual on-sale dates in bookstores are usually at least a week later (and often longer) than in the comics market (since there's at least one more link in the distibution chain), and there's never a hard and fast "It's always in Borders a week after the comics shops" rule, since the amount and mix of product that goes into a mass-market bookstore can vary wildly week to week (they get their stuff from many different distributors) much more than in comics shops (most of whom get all their product from a single distributor, Diamond), which can greatly affect what goes out and when. This all probably qualifies as more info than you ever wanted, so the short version is to remember that the on-sale dates on our website are for comics shops, and books will then start showing up on mass-market bookstores shelves in one to three weeks.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: CnC on January 20, 2006, 05:07:37 PM
This all probably qualifies as more info than you ever wanted, so the short version is to remember that the on-sale dates on our website are for comics shops, and books will then start showing up on mass-market bookstores shelves in one to three weeks.

Thanks for the clarification, Chris.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: handsome rakshas on January 21, 2006, 05:25:01 AM
so the short version is to remember that the on-sale dates on our website are for comics shops, and books will then start showing up on mass-market bookstores shelves in one to three weeks.

Thanks for clarifying that for me. I always wondered why it takes Borders so damn long to get the book in. I'm going to start preordering the manga from my local comic store. Thanks for the info, Chris! And thank you for taking the time to come back and talk to us. Your actions show that you care about our opinions and questions, and I love you for that.  :guts:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: spikeyhairedcadet on January 21, 2006, 05:45:05 AM
Thanx Chris! It's nice to know that people at Dark horse care about hearing feedback & responding to it personally with valuable information! :serpico:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: El_Spico11 on January 22, 2006, 09:43:23 PM
Wow they're only up to volume 10? I just started reading the mangas two days ago and I just finished volume 2, no wonder the local bookstore only has up to 9. I was very confused because I always hear talk about volume 27 and all. Don't mind me, I'm just new to the whole manga thing, although I must say it is superb  :guts: Yarrr hurry up then! It only takes me a good hour to finish a volume!
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: IsolatioN on January 22, 2006, 10:15:18 PM
haha :serpico: the talk of the later volumes are from people who buy the japanese volumes and read translations/transcripts on the net :)

welcome to the Berserk manga, by the way. It's an amazing experience. I suggest not just flying through them, since Miura has crafted Berserk so amazingly, there is allot you can ponder inbetween reading volumes. What I do is read a volume, sort of just process it for awhile, then read the next. It's one of the neatest things about Berserk, you can just ponder and speculate so much..

but welcome!
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: El_Spico11 on January 22, 2006, 10:32:20 PM
Thanks for the welcome  :serpico: I've only been reading the Dark Horse mangas so far, so which volume are they up to? I've read elsewhere that they have reached 13 or 14, and this thread only points to volume 10, so I'm a bit confused.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: IsolatioN on January 22, 2006, 11:14:11 PM
Nope, DH is only up to volume 10. The Anime went up to volume 13, and the latest volume in Japan is 29 :)
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Darth on March 09, 2006, 03:55:20 AM
Volume 11 is still set to drop 4/12/06

and the date has been set for volume 12 to drop 7/12/06 :guts:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on March 09, 2006, 04:51:36 AM
Volume 11 is still set to drop 4/12/06

and the date has been set for volume 12 to drop 7/12/06 :guts:

Nice, thanks for the update DarthVenom!  I recently picked up volume 10 of the DH releases but have yet to read it and vol. 9.  I'll get to 'em eventually though. :serpico:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: IsolatioN on March 09, 2006, 08:02:34 PM
Hey Volume 12 comes out two days after my birth day :) Thanks for the update, can't wait to get 11. Must..see...battle..with..Wyald!
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: dwarfkicker on March 09, 2006, 08:28:40 PM
The good news is that starting in 2007, we'll be out of the flashback and back to more Black Swordsman stuff.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: jackson_hurley on March 09, 2006, 10:16:18 PM
even though i know how guts survive the eclipse i cant wait to see that in visuals!!! been waiting for that for a looong time! yes its gonna be good! :chomp:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Omega Tom Hanks on April 21, 2006, 11:31:35 PM
Ok I know this is a dumb question but what does bi mothly mean????
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: IsolatioN on April 22, 2006, 12:02:34 AM
I believe it means comes out every two months instead of three? I am unsure though, so don't quote me on that  :serpico:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on April 22, 2006, 12:33:11 AM
I believe it means comes out every two months instead of three? I am unsure though, so don't quote me on that  :serpico:

Yes, that's correct. :void:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Omega Tom Hanks on April 22, 2006, 01:08:56 AM
Yeah, now we get six a year instead of four!

Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on April 23, 2006, 05:42:14 AM
Never seen people like Mr. Warner going to forums giving exclusive info.  Kudos to all of you and thank you very much Mr. Warner, your news is very refreshing.
His post on our forums got him on "Aintitcool" and several other sites, and then he promptly dissapeared.  Very curious indeed...  I hope he didn't get in trouble for being TOO exclusive?  :judo:

As for the proposed release schedule, it's good news, but so far, they've already been coming out TOO quick for my wallet  ;D.  I just got my vol 11 a few days ago and had to forego dinner...
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: IsolatioN on April 23, 2006, 01:04:41 PM
Bah, who needs dinner when you have a shiny new Berserk volume? It should sustain you for at least one or two days.  :guts:


Placed my order for 11 a couple days ago, should be shipping soon.  :troll:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: The Perineum Falcon on April 23, 2006, 03:49:07 PM
They're already at 11?? :judo:
I'm still at 2!
Where does the time go???
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Frog on April 24, 2006, 02:43:04 AM
Someone should change the name of this thread to "Slow down Dark Horse!!"

P.S.  Hurry up Dark Horse
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: IsolatioN on April 24, 2006, 05:55:33 PM
Yep, volume 11 came out a little while ago Slightly Green. Looks like your a bit behind schedule, 2 was released in 2003 I think? :)

I'm glad they are going to begin releasing them one every two months. I'd love to be caught up to everyone faster so I can participate in the upper-volume discussions.  :judo:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Darth on May 22, 2006, 12:11:48 AM
Volume 12 is still set to drop 7/12/06

and guess what....

Volume 13 is set to drop 9/27/06 :isidro: :guts:

i hope the bi-monthly marker is a permanent move for the future issues as well.. i know i would be very happy..
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on May 22, 2006, 06:48:25 AM
Volume 12 is still set to drop 7/12/06

and guess what....

Volume 13 is set to drop 9/27/06

Yeah, it's been announced and discussed already (http://www.skullknight.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=6177.150).

i hope the bi-monthly marker is a permanent move for the future issues as well..

Well according to what Chris Warner told us a while ago it should be.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Darth on May 22, 2006, 10:23:26 PM
Yeah, it's been announced and discussed already (http://www.skullknight.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=6177.150).

the dates were said on that thread (or am i missing them ???), and i honestly did not expect to see them on that thread...

It's also about the story in the manga and not the release dates or pace, there are threads for that in other sections already.

Well according to what Chris Warner told us a while ago it should be.

Ill believe it when it becomes a fact not a speculation. Remember an issue was released 2 months after a previous issue before, and then it went back to the 3 month marker.


Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on May 22, 2006, 10:31:48 PM
the dates were said on that thread (or am i missing them ???), and i honestly did not expect to see them on that thread...

It was said that volume 12 was coming out in July and volume 13 in September, which prompted comments on a bi-monthly release. The dates themselves are on DH's site, but the big news was the bi-monthly planning. As for not having dates announced or discussed in that thread, what can I tell you... People just don't listen.

Ill believe it when it becomes a fact not a speculation.

Like everybody else.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Chris Warner on June 14, 2006, 10:39:10 PM
the dates were said on that thread (or am i missing them ???), and i honestly did not expect to see them on that thread...

Ill believe it when it becomes a fact not a speculation. Remember an issue was released 2 months after a previous issue before, and then it went back to the 3 month marker.

Hi everybody,

Chris Warner from Dark Horse here. Berserk goes bimonthly starting with volume 13, which is scheduled to go on sale in the comics market September 27. Please note that in mainstream bookstores, books go on shelves approximately two to three weeks later than the listed on-sale date, and the times even in the same bookstore will not always be the same, due to the more complex nature of mass-market bookstore distribution. In fact, for the most part, books don't have official on-sale dates in the book market. They have publication months. Our listed on-sale dates are for the comics specialty market.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: jepn30 on June 15, 2006, 12:34:49 AM
Hi everybody,

Chris Warner from Dark Horse here. Berserk goes bimonthly starting with volume 13, which is scheduled to go on sale in the comics market September 27.

Good news for those of us in the US and Canada.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on June 15, 2006, 02:23:49 AM
Thanks for the confirmation Chris, we're glad to hear from you again.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: TheBeast43105 on June 15, 2006, 02:52:36 PM
The two month marker is cool and everything, but wont they catch up to Miura faster, and then have to wait for him to produce new volumes?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on June 15, 2006, 02:56:12 PM
The two month marker is cool and everything, but wont they catch up to Miura faster, and then have to wait for him to produce new volumes?

Of course, once Dark Horse will have caught up with the Japanese edition the releases will slow down. That's inevitable though, so I don't see what your point is. It will eventually happen no matter what, and having a faster release rate won't have much of an impact on it.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Vaxillus on June 15, 2006, 07:55:17 PM
Whoah, sweet!  Glad things are speeding up.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: general zig on June 22, 2006, 04:09:53 PM
finally we are almost to the part where the anime leaves off the people who did not read the japanese manga can finally see just what happens to guts. I cant wait to read it even through i already know how he got out of there.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Chris Warner on June 22, 2006, 05:56:26 PM
The two month marker is cool and everything, but wont they catch up to Miura faster, and then have to wait for him to produce new volumes?

Hi everybody,

Chris Warner from Dark Horse again. Actually, your question was a major issue here in determining how to plan a Berserk publishing program, because we knew we'd eventually catch up with the series in Japan, and then we'd have no choice but to go from whatever schedule we were maintaining to a much slower release schedule. The other consideration was the proliferation of manga titles being published. Initially, we felt that a quarterly schedule handled matters well enough, but once we'd established the U.S. Berserk audience, and we were getting so many requests to go to bimonthly, we figured what-the-hell and went to the faster schedule. That will mean we'll catch up to the Japanese editions a lot sooner (I think we'll catch up sometime early in 2010) and go from every two months to about every six or seven months, but after 30-odd volumes, I think the readers we have will definitely be hardcore enough to put up with the wait.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on June 22, 2006, 06:31:21 PM
[...] That will mean we'll catch up to the Japanese editions a lot sooner (I think we'll catch up sometime early in 2010) and go from every two months to about every six or seven months, but after 30-odd volumes, I think the readers we have will definitely be hardcore enough to put up with the wait.

I think so too. Besides, 2010 may be "soon" in terms of edition, but for readers eager to read more it's a lot of time. If people had had to wait until 2013 to catch up they might have dropped the series altogether in favor of others getting a faster release rate. It's a smart move from Dark Horse in all respects, IMHO.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: TheBeast43105 on June 24, 2006, 03:28:07 PM
Hi everybody,

Chris Warner from Dark Horse again. Actually, your question was a major issue here in determining how to plan a Berserk publishing program, because we knew we'd eventually catch up with the series in Japan, and then we'd have no choice but to go from whatever schedule we were maintaining to a much slower release schedule. The other consideration was the proliferation of manga titles being published. Initially, we felt that a quarterly schedule handled matters well enough, but once we'd established the U.S. Berserk audience, and we were getting so many requests to go to bimonthly, we figured what-the-hell and went to the faster schedule. That will mean we'll catch up to the Japanese editions a lot sooner (I think we'll catch up sometime early in 2010) and go from every two months to about every six or seven months, but after 30-odd volumes, I think the readers we have will definitely be hardcore enough to put up with the wait.

Mmm i never thought of that, i see your point. If someones invested enough cash to buy 30 volumes, you think they'd be in it for the long haul. And even if they stop reading it, its economically beneficial if they stop reading after buying thirty volumes at the bi-monthly rate than if they stop reading at say 22 at the previous one.    Okay, im convinced.  :serpico:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: KuroKenshi on July 08, 2006, 07:34:19 PM
i feel the same as most of you  :judo: i know i could just print a bunch of scans but it just feels better having the real thing and they are excellent in quality, :serpico: besides i cant read japanese so the japanese ones wont do even though skullnight.net has translations. :griff: i think bi-monthly would be an awesome idea :badbone: but complaining here wont change nothin' so i'm just gonna have to go to over to darkhorse with my army of apostles!! :zodd:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on July 08, 2006, 07:57:05 PM
i think bi-monthly would be an awesome idea

Bi-monthly releases are a reality now. Please pay more attention to previous posts when you reply to a thread in the future.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: IsolatioN on July 09, 2006, 12:45:08 AM
Yep, and 2010 isn't an unfair date at all to catch up on. The new ones to the series won't have to wait so long to get a volume. That is, until DH does indeed catch up, then we'll probably be at around the same pace as the Japanese releases, correct? (of course it'll probably take it bit to translate it, so actually a tad slower.. :) )
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on July 12, 2006, 07:23:30 PM
DH's Volume 14 is up for pre-order now (http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/profile.php?sku=13-516), along with a really mangled-looking cover (the canvas has been extended - check out the stubby DS handle  XD ).  Here's their uh... unique summary.
Quote from: Dark Horse
"The once unbeatable Band of the Hawk is smashed, and their former leader, Griffith, has made an unholy pact with the demon lords of the Godhand, sacrificing his former troops to resurrect his crippled body and ascend to stand in power beside these profane gods. The Invocation of Doom has unleashed a plague of unspeakable horrors upon the earth, and the first battle not only shatters the Hawks, but the hand of their champion, Guts, and the mind of their captain and Guts' lover, Casca. And while time may heal some of Guts' wounds, it will not heal his desire for vengeance. And his discovery of a gigantic, dragon-slaying sword might be just the ticket to deal out some king-sized payback!"
Griffith resurrected his body and unleashed a plague upon the world!  :isidro:  :???:  Can't wait to read the back of the volume this time around.

Quote
"Also included in this volume: "Berserk Prototype," the very first Berserk story, created during Kentarou Miura's college days as his audition that sold the series!"
Good to see that the Prototype made it in. Oh, and the release date is November 29th, 2006.

PS: A little factoid on that vol 14 page, "The first ten volumes of Berserk have sold over 175,000 copies!"   Great work.  Keep it up, DH.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: CnC on July 12, 2006, 07:42:20 PM
PS: A little factoid on that vol 14 page, "The first ten volumes of Berserk have sold over 175,000 copies!"   Great work.  Keep it up, DH.

Great news.  congrats to DH for their success

oh, yea.  and that DS is jacked up...
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: IsolatioN on July 12, 2006, 07:47:22 PM
Great, I'm glad DH is doing well. Hopefully it's introducing a lot of new fans to berserk. It seems to be selling fairly well :)
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on July 12, 2006, 08:04:28 PM
Good to see that the Prototype made it in.

No reason for it not to though, just like there was no way episode 83 would be included in volume 13. It's the same for every version.

"The first ten volumes of Berserk have sold over 175,000 copies!"

Let's rejoice. :SK:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: TheSkyTraveller on July 12, 2006, 10:02:20 PM
DH's Volume 14 is up for pre-order now (http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/profile.php?sku=13-516), along with a really mangled-looking cover (the canvas has been extended - check out the stubby DS handle  XD ). 

Didn't they extend the canvas on some of the others, too?  I remember #9 not having the white border the original does.

Also, I have a question.  Since when did it become the "Invocation of Doom?"  I thought they were calling it the "Occultation of Doom" in the earlier volumes?  Maybe I'm just crazy.  :???:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on July 12, 2006, 10:35:27 PM
Didn't they extend the canvas on some of the others, too?  I remember #9 not having the white border the original does.
Yep. they're all extended for the DH releases.  It's just that vol 14's tiny DS handle is more obvious than the others.  :guts:
Quote
Also, I have a question.  Since when did it become the "Invocation of Doom?"  I thought they were calling it the "Occultation of Doom" in the earlier volumes?  Maybe I'm just crazy.  :???:
It's been the "Invocation of Doom" in DH releases as early as volume 3.  A more likely translation would be "Sacrificial Ceremony."
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Triple Life on July 12, 2006, 10:58:58 PM
It's a little strange that they cover up Casca's breasts on the cover to volume 13, but they seem to have no problem with Rochine's pre-teen boobies on the cover of volume 11.

Let me tell you, I'll peel that sticker off of Casca so fast.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: IsolatioN on July 12, 2006, 11:11:33 PM
Well atleast it's just a sticker so I'm not really angry about it. If they had printed it into the cover, though, then I'd get a bit mad. No harm from a simple sticker.  :troll:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Triple Life on July 12, 2006, 11:22:21 PM
I don't mind, just something I thought was funny.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: TheSkyTraveller on July 13, 2006, 04:12:40 AM
It's been the "Invocation of Doom" in DH releases as early as volume 3.  A more likely translation would be "Sacrificial Ceremony."

You're right, I'm just crazy.  :judo:  I must have combined using "Occultation" here with their translation. 

It's a more appropriate question for the translations section of the board, but what is the deal with the "OF DOOM!!!" part anyway?  It seems cheesy and superfluous, and nothing like the translations discussed here. Is there any connotation in Japanese that would lead to them translating it like that?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Jaze1618 on July 17, 2006, 03:38:34 AM
Still no volume 12 in seattle Washington. I'm told it should be here on wednesday.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on July 17, 2006, 03:47:25 AM
Still no volume 12 in seattle Washington. I'm told it should be here on wednesday.

Amazon.com doesn't have it in stock yet either. I guess it's a global delay.

what is the deal with the "OF DOOM!!!" part anyway?  It seems cheesy and superfluous, and nothing like the translations discussed here. Is there any connotation in Japanese that would lead to them translating it like that?

Its meaning literally is "Ceremony of Calling Down Evil," which can also be translated as "Ceremony of Calling Evil" or "Ceremony of Invoking Evil." There's the word ceremony in it which isn't in Dark Horse's translation for some reason, and the kanji used for evil is "魔" and just means evil, devil, demon, etc but not "doom." So to answer your question, there's no connotation in Japanese that could lead someone to translate it like that.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: SMZKAH on July 17, 2006, 02:28:03 PM
Same problem here, my local comic store just said it should be in sometime this week, so I'll just call every day until it comes in.  It's no big deal though, patience is a good thing for a Berserk fan.  :guts:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Señor Caudillo on July 18, 2006, 12:18:51 AM
Same problem here, my local comic store just said it should be in sometime this week, so I'll just call every day until it comes in.  It's no big deal though, patience is a good thing for a Berserk fan.  :guts:

Yeah, considering the fact that the fans back in Japan have to wait at least half a year before the new volume comes out. At the pace of one volume of Berserk per three months in U.S, we're damn sure lucky.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: CnC on July 18, 2006, 12:45:23 AM
At the pace of one volume of Berserk per three months in U.S, we're damn sure lucky.

bi-monthly, supposedly.



EDIT from Walter: Read the previous page guys...
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Franz on July 18, 2006, 01:58:14 PM
Works for me, considering I only BUY the stuff once a year at AX and catch up at 5 volumes at once.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: handsome rakshas on July 19, 2006, 06:25:59 PM
Well, after weeks of bitching volume 12 is finally in my hands!
I have to head out of town right now so I'll update this post later with impressions of the new volume. Everyone go out and pick it up now!

Edit: I know its old news but the SFX are translated. I find that it detracts from my reading experience. For example, the dream sequence where Casca is feeding Griffith. In the panel with the little Beherit floating in the spoon in the panel on the left it says in a small box. *FX: PUKA. I find it very annoying but I like knowing what the SFX are. I would have rather had a index at the back of the book rather than have  the translations right on the page but oh well. Its Berserk, so I'll love anything I can get my hands on.

Also what was disappointing was this little tidbit.

"Created by Kentarou Miura, Berserk is a churning manga mosh-pit, a take-no-prisoners epic of white-knuckle action, cold-blooded horror, and black-hearted humor that has inspired legions of fanatical acolytes to spread terror and chaos across the land. Run for your lives!"

Not even nearly cheesy enough! Although I do like "churning manga mosh-pit".

Edit 2: The scene where Corkus is talking about  how Griffith's return should have gave  new life to the Hawks brought tears to my eyes. The expression on Pippin's face made me terribly sad. Its been a long time since I read this volume and its like I'm reading it for the first time.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: SMZKAH on July 19, 2006, 07:15:28 PM
Well, after weeks of bitching volume 12 is finally in my hands!
I have to head out of town right now so I'll update this post later with impressions of the new volume. Everyone go out and pick it up now!

Wow, how'd you get your hands on it?  I was just informed yesterday that my primary comic dealer is no longer selling berserk, and Borders said it was delayed for a few weeks.  Now I'm angry... So much for patience
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on July 19, 2006, 07:17:33 PM
Well, after weeks of bitching volume 12 is finally in my hands!
I have to head out of town right now so I'll update this post later with impressions of the new volume. Everyone go out and pick it up now!
Damn you, Amazon.  I ordered vol 12 July 10th from them and it hasn't even shipped out yet.  I probably won't get it until at the very least next week... Good to know it's at least being distributed now though. 

Wow, so the sound effects actually are translated? Yuck...  :puck: Well, it seems I misjudged Dark Horse this time.  We should let Chris Warner know our opinions on the matter.  I really do like the idea of an appendix in the back of each volume with the translations of the sound effects.  And it doesn't sound that infeasible to me.  If anything it's less work for DH.

Edit 2: The scene where Corkus is talking about  how Griffith's return should have gave  new life to the Hawks brought tears to my eyes. The expression on Pippin's face made me terribly sad. Its been a long time since I read this volume and its like I'm reading it for the first time.
Vol 13's the real tearjerker for me: the aftermath of the eclipse :judo:

I was just informed yesterday that my primary comic dealer is no longer selling berserk
Yeeowch. That sucks dude, and right when the climax of this arc is coming with volumes 12-13. I'd complain to them, and at least get them to special order it for you in the future.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: handsome rakshas on July 19, 2006, 07:53:17 PM

Vol 13's the real tearjerker, for me: the aftermath of the eclipse :judo:

Oh shit, Volume 13 does come after Volume 12 doesn't it?  :schierke:
When Volume 13 gets released if I don't log on for a while it means that I had myself admitted. That one is going to be hell. But seriously, I felt an overwhelming sense of sadness at the beginning of Volume 12 for The Hawks. Felt like the end of a dynasty. I am going to be a man and admit that I actually did cry. Oops, now I feel embarrassed.  :judo:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on July 19, 2006, 08:59:27 PM
I really do like the idea of an appendix in the back of each volume with the translations of the sound effects.  And it doesn't sound that infeasible to me.  If anything it's less work for DH.

The "Special Editions" of the Evangelion manga (the Japanese versions with the sound effects left intact) had an index at the back with translations for all of 'em, so I don't think it'd be that hard to include.  And you're right, it would be less work for DH in the end.  Maybe if enough complaints come in they'll re-release Vol. 12 with the sound-effects translations removed.  One can only hope.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on July 19, 2006, 11:08:51 PM
Maybe if enough complaints come in they'll re-release Vol. 12 with the sound-effects translations removed.  One can only hope.
Yeah, it's a change that could easily be made for reprintings (and every Berserk volume thus far has been reprinted).
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on July 20, 2006, 03:36:34 AM
In the panel with the little Beherit floating in the spoon in the panel on the left it says in a small box. *FX: PUKA.

Haha, but then they're not even translated, it's just a transliteration of the sound... If it's the same for everything then IMHO, it's useless. They should translate the sounds, i.e. put them in English or use an onomatopoeia an English speaker can recognize. In the end I think an appendix would be much better, and less of a bother for Dark Horse overall. They could fit everything on one page at the end, with the page the sound effect appears on, how it's written in Japanese, a transliteration of the sound, and a translation of what it means. That probably wouldn't be too hard for the translator to do, the editors wouldn't have to bother themselves editing boxes on the art, and the fans would be happy.

Here's a quick example:

Quote from: Appendix
...
Page XXX
Page 42:   メキメキ -  Meki Meki - The sound of something cracking/breaking (as in being smashed to bits)
Page XXX
...

Of course that's just a way to do it among many others, a simple suggestion.

"Created by Kentarou Miura, Berserk is a churning manga mosh-pit, a take-no-prisoners epic of white-knuckle action, cold-blooded horror, and black-hearted humor that has inspired legions of fanatical acolytes to spread terror and chaos across the land. Run for your lives!"

These need to go, seriously... It's grotesquely funny at first, but then you remember it's actually written on your favorite manga, and it becomes very sad.

The scene where Corkus is talking about  how Griffith's return should have gave  new life to the Hawks brought tears to my eyes. The expression on Pippin's face made me terribly sad. Its been a long time since I read this volume and its like I'm reading it for the first time.

I also find this scene very emotional. Corcas breaking his sword is extremely symbolic to me. But that kind of discussion should go in the Dark Horse releases: Discussion Thread (http://www.skullknight.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=6444.225). :guts:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: CnC on July 20, 2006, 11:05:46 AM
That probably wouldn't be too hard for the translator to do, the editors wouldn't have to bother themselves editing boxes on the art, and the fans would be happy.

No kidding.  They've lost me on this one.  I ain't buyin' a book with these boxes on the artwork.  Lets hope they reprint them without the sfx, otherwise it looks like I'll just stick to the japanese versions.

These need to go, seriously... It's grotesquely funny at first, but then you remember it's actually written on your favorite manga, and it becomes very sad.

grotesquely juvenile, as well.  Not a hint of class in the entire lineup.  Its a shame if their target demographic is prepubescent teenagers.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: TheSkyTraveller on July 20, 2006, 06:43:06 PM

Edit: I know its old news but the SFX are translated.


Damn!  I was just gearing up to buy the last ones I missed, too, since I was happy the quality had improved.  Now I'm not so sure... :judo:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on July 20, 2006, 07:06:20 PM
Damn!  I was just gearing up to buy the last ones I missed, too, since I was happy the quality had improved.  Now I'm not so sure... :judo:
Well, it's just volume 12 that has the sound effects transliterated.  The previous ones don't have anything of the sort ... Which really makes 12 kind of... weird. I mean, why now, DH? WHYYYYY?!  :judo:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: TheSkyTraveller on July 20, 2006, 07:17:31 PM
Well, it's just volume 12 that has the sound effects transliterated.  The previous ones don't have anything of the sort ... Which really makes 12 kind of... weird. I mean, why now, DH? WHYYYYY?!  :judo:

Maybe they got a lot of mail asking for translated sound effects?  Maybe we need to begin a strategic letter-writing counterattack!
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on July 21, 2006, 04:29:52 AM
And believe me, it's partly Kentarou Miura's fault.

I don't think you worded that correctly, sorry to be picky. It can't be said to be his "fault" if he uses page space more effectively and makes the panel placement more dynamic than what you can find in common works.

In my opinion, the best approach would be to include the English translated captions within the "gutters", that're there already [...] And for those SFX that're on the pages without the "gutters" (and boy, are there many of those), have them translated on the glossary included in the back of the book. So you're getting the best of the both worlds here.

That'd be awkward and more work for Dark Horse without being much of an improvement, IMHO. If anything, having SFX in spaces between panels can also be distracting and would sometimes be inconvenient, not to mention the editors having to choose when to do it and when not to and the readers having to check the Appendix half the time, etc. It'd just be a bother, really (and probably confusing). I think if they had to change the way they're doing the SFX they'd need to choose one method and stick to it. In this case, everybody seems to be agreeing that an Appendix would be the best way, so there's no need to try to make things more complicated.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Señor Caudillo on July 21, 2006, 05:11:06 PM
Well, with the translated English SFX captions placed in the "gutters", you can see them on the fly, as you're reading.
But yes, the Appendix is probably the best choice whan it comes to translating the sound-effects from Japanese to English. After all, if DH expects us to pay $14 for each Berserk volume, it'd be really great of them to do so.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on July 21, 2006, 06:34:02 PM
Well I've decided to hold off on purchasing Vol. 12 (and any other volume in the future, for that matter, that translates the sound effects by obstructing Miura's artwork, however minor the obstruction might be). :miura:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on July 21, 2006, 07:34:37 PM
Well I've decided to hold off on purchasing Vol. 12 (and any other volume in the future, for that matter, that translates the sound effects by obstructing Miura's artwork, however minor the obstruction might be). :miura:
Wow, you guys... you're treating this like it's some kind of personal offense to you.  You won't be helping Berserk by black listing the series because of this supeficial change, you know.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: CnC on July 21, 2006, 08:47:32 PM
Wow, you guys... you're treating this like it's some kind of personal offense to you.  You won't be helping Berserk by black listing the series because of this supeficial change, you know.

well, I don't know about the rest of 'em,  but I buy these mainly for the artwork.  Having the speech bubbles translated is a bonus to me.  So if theres anything in the way of that artwork that takes out 60-70% of why I love it (the rest being mostly story).  And thus no reason to buy this version in addition to my support of the japanese versions.

But thats just coming from a standpoint of someone who already owns the volumes and needs additional incentive to re-buy them. 
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Señor Caudillo on July 21, 2006, 09:16:48 PM
Wow, you guys... you're treating this like it's some kind of personal offense to you.  You won't be helping Berserk by black listing the series because of this supeficial change, you know.

Damn straight! You know, with those captions it's not like you're missing out on chunks and chunks of artwork. Besides, we ain't the only fans of Berserk you know. If somebody doesn't like the SFX translations, someone else always might. We shouldn't get all mad about those tiny captions. Let me tell ya, if the series was licensed by Viz Media, apart from the usual severe censorship and editing that we've come to expect from them, we also wpuld've received our SFX translations in those "lovely" gargantuous English texts, pasted right across the entire artwork. If this were to happen to Berserk, then I'd be most disappointed and outraged. Yeah, I checked the scans of Berserk with the translated SFX subtitles on the DH website, and to me, it doesn't look too bad. It does affect the art somewhat, but only very little. You're not missing out on anything that you would've, if the FX were replaced completely with those goddamned Viz English FX texts. So, let's all be just happy with what we've got.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on July 21, 2006, 09:36:32 PM
if the series was licensed by a bastard manga company *cough* Viz Media *cough*, apart from the usual severe censorship and editing that we've come to expect from those fuckers
Geez dude, I don't know what series you've been reading by Viz, but they've done an outstanding job with Vagabond.  It contains none of your aforementioned shittiness.  I actually wish Viz HAD licensed Berserk, given their incredible work with Vagabond.  DH really does a relatively worse job with Berserk, given their appalling descriptions of the series on the back cover, spelling errors, translation oddities and sound effect nonsense (and a lack of an appendix, which Vagabond has for each volume, describing characters/locations/historical information). 

But all of this doesn't mean I'm going to stop buying Berserk altogether.  On the whole, I've really enjoyed what DH has done. I just think they have room for improvement.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Señor Caudillo on July 21, 2006, 10:18:12 PM
Geez dude, I don't know what series you've been reading by Viz, but they've done an outstanding job with Vagabond.  It contains none of your aforementioned shittiness.  I actually wish Viz HAD licensed Berserk, given their incredible work with Vagabond.  DH really does a relatively worse job with Berserk, given their appalling descriptions of the series on the back cover, spelling errors, translation oddities and sound effect nonsense (and a lack of an appendix, which Vagabond has for each volume, describing characters/locations/historical information). 

But all of this doesn't mean I'm going to stop buying Berserk altogether.  On the whole, I've really enjoyed what DH has done. I just think they have room for improvement.

Just because they've done things right with some of their releases, doesn't mean that Viz had done justice with them all, you know. I'm not gonna eloborate more on this, because this is not a Viz Media forum. But I've gotta tell ya, ever since manga has gone mainstream during the last couple of years, large publishers such as Viz and Tokyopop have begun to shy away from licensing seinen manga titles. So when I heard in late '03 that DH had licensed Berserk, I wasn't too surprised at all. With a manga series with heavy violence and explicit content like it, any  company which were to pick it up and release it uncut all the way, must've had balls made out of steel.
I agree with you Walter, the job that DH has done with Berserk is anything but perfect. While their adaptation of the series is not bad, it sure could've been hell of a lot better.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Griffith on July 21, 2006, 11:13:46 PM
Yeah, not sucking could be better, and it's actually getting worse (sound boxes that cover the artwork that they've already darkened too much; fantastic). I can see why DH gravitated towards Berserk though; their handling of the series has been more obscene than anything in it.

I'll take my Vizabond, thank you.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: TheBeast43105 on July 21, 2006, 11:45:14 PM
Well with a series this popular, its impossible to please everyone, so theres always going to be some people who take offense to things that others dont.   I personally do care for the FX, but its not a deal-breaker for me.

The summerizations on the back of the volumes DO annoy me however.    " now with the discovery of a massive sword called the dragon slayer, Guts will deal out some king-sized payback!!!"

urgh..
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: TheSkyTraveller on July 22, 2006, 12:22:10 AM
There are two ways of looking at it. 

One is a matter of practicality.  You aren't going to please all the fans all the time.  Any company would have a difficult time pleasing someone as incredibly picky as me. :puck: So DH is trying to do their best to make it accessible to the most people with the least amount of compromise regarding preserving the original work.  So we get an unedited story, and uncut, unflipped art, which is good.  The translation seems decent  for the most part, aside from weird stuff like "Knight of Skeleton."  Those are probably the most important things to consider anyway.  We can support the manga, and hopefully some profits will trickle back to Miura.  But then we also get stuck with negative stuff like adding distracting sound effects boxes out of the blue, ugly graphic design, and ridiculous copy on the backs of the manga that, I guess, are supposed to be appealing to someone.  In this case, it's up to the customer to decide if those grievances are worth not buying the comic.  For practical purposes, the release is more positive than negative.

On the other hand, there's the matter of principal.  Buying something sends the message to a company that you like what they're doing, and that they should keep doing it.  I'm sure that customer comments are taken into consideration, but the biggest consideration for any company is money, and money talks.  If everyone keeps buying something they're not entirely happy with, they'll still get something they're not entirely happy with.  So, with this scenario, do I want to spend a lot of money to re-buy a series I already have a whole set of, with the problems the release has?  Do I want to say "Hey, sound effects are fine, I like Knight of Skeleton and manga mayhem to the extreme"?  In my case, I dunno.  I get so anal and perfectionist about these kinds of things that Freud would have a field day with me.  I like things to be kept as close to their original form as possible, so there are a lot of things in any manga release that are potential deal breakers for me.  But, the releases overall have improved.  I'm currently on the fence regarding picking up the newer ones with the added sound effects.

Sorry for the crazy long post. :troll:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on July 22, 2006, 05:26:57 AM
You won't be helping Berserk by black listing the series because of this supeficial change, you know.

True.

On the other hand, there's the matter of principal. Buying something sends the message to a company that you like what they're doing, and that they should keep doing it. I'm sure that customer comments are taken into consideration, but the biggest consideration for any company is money, and money talks. If everyone keeps buying something they're not entirely happy with, they'll still get something they're not entirely happy with.

My thinking was more along these lines.  I guess I figured that if enough people stopped buying the manga because of this, that Dark Horse might stop this whole translated SFX business.  It would take a lot of people to do that, though, and I guess you would run the risk of DH dropping the series altogether if enough people quit buying it, and I certainly don't want that to happen.  I dunno...I'm kinda torn on the issue...I guess another part of it is if DH does re-release Vol. 12 without translated SFX, I don't want to have to buy the volume twice (especially with the price and me being, for lack of a better word, poor), if I pick up the one that's out right now.  I dunno...I guess I'm still deciding what to do about it.  I could always buy the earlier volumes of the original Japanese ones (which I'm probably gonna end up doing anyway one of these days).  Ah well, I guess I'll wait to see what Chris has to say on the matter.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on July 22, 2006, 05:50:38 AM
I guess I figured that if enough people stopped buying the manga because of this, that Dark Horse might stop this whole translated SFX business. 
Keep dreaming  :guts:  Volumes 12 and 13 will be bought heavily regardless of sound effects nonsense because of the critical events in them.

Quote
I could always buy the earlier volumes of the original Japanese ones (which I'm probably gonna end up doing anyway one of these days).  Ah well, I guess I'll wait to see what Chris has to say on the matter.
Yeah, for this particular issue, it doesn't matter to me.  I'm buying them regardless, because I value the translations.  The visuals aren't as important, since my japanese volumes will always have better quality because they aren't 2nd generation. 

Anyway, I too am anxious to hear what Chris has to say on the subject.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Jaze1618 on July 22, 2006, 07:40:58 AM
I'm probably in the minority here but I actually like the SFX translated where they are. I can't say that I wouldnt like them just as much in appendix form because I couldn't know unless I saw it that way.

Most of the translations are actual translations in volume 12. There are some that are translated into "puka" (as mentioned on the last page) but there are many that say "twinge" and "grip" and the like.

Personally I always had a habit of ignoring and looking past the sound effects when I couldn't read & understand them. Having them translated adds a new audio sensory touch to berserk for me.

When I read berserk I always imagine the characters voices speaking thier lines but other sounds never entered my thought process. For me and my unique berserk experience, observing the suond effects and understanding them adds another layer of realism that draws me in even more.

I also didn't find them to be distracting to the artwork when I read through Dark Horse's volume 12.

EDIT: Looking back through Volume 12 it seems they do put some translations in the gutter. The scene on pg 203 where Casca, pippin, corkus, and judeau are branded places sound effects in the gutters where there is room for them.
Other sound effects on that same pare are placed in the artwork.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on July 22, 2006, 07:52:40 AM
You know, with those captions it's not like you're missing out on chunks and chunks of artwork.

You miss on artwork nevertheless. And in later volumes it could be a problem in certain scenes. You have your opinion, fine, but please don't start telling other people what they should mind or not.

Besides, we ain't the only fans of Berserk you know.

But this is our forum and we're talking about our opinions. I don't think that's too hard to understand.

Let me tell ya, if the series was licensed by a bastard manga company *cough* Viz Media *cough*, apart from the usual severe censorship and editing that we've come to expect from those fuckers

That's irrelevant... And please don't start name-calling or comparing publishing companies, we're just talking about what we would like Dark Horse to improve in their releases, not anything else.

That being said, while Dark Horse's releases still have defaults, they're much better than what some publishers are doing around the world. Sure, the printing and paper quality could be better, however they've already improved it a lot since the first printing of volume 1. The summaries at the back aren't of the better taste and don't represent Berserk at all, they're misleading, but these are just summaries, nothing they can't fix (by removing them altogether). Then you have the little spell check and translation problems. Well these would require an added effort from the concerned parties (Digital Manga I guess?) and a reprinting for earlier volumes, but let me tell you that overall, they've been doing a better job than say the Italian, German or French editions on that particular aspect.

I think there are people at Dark Horse doing genuine efforts to adapt Berserk correctly, so while they're not doing a perfect job, I don't think it's that bad overall. And that's coming from the most picky person there is as far as Berserk goes, sorry to the other pretendants to the title. It's just a matter of being realistic here. The volumes aren't flipped, they aren't censored, the translations are mostly decent, the release rate has been improved, etc. It's good to have high standards and to voice our disapproval, but let's not go overboard and decide to stop buying the volumes at the slightest problem there is. That goes to those that don't buy the Japanese volumes in particular. Sorry to say it guys, but you're already late in paying Miura for his work if you're a member of this site and aren't buying the Japanese volumes, so pretty much nothing is an excuse not to buy the US version.

The sound effects being on the art is a deal breaker to many people (and not to some others, Jaze is giving us another view on things for example), we're voicing our discontentment on the matter, good. Let's send letters, let's protest, let's push for them to change it (I sure hope they will), fine really. We don't have to settle for something we don't like of course, but let's not lose perspective on things either. Should have they asked fans what they wanted and what they thought before doing it? Probably. Should this be enough of a reason for fans not owing any version of the manga yet not to buy it? I don't think so.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Señor Caudillo on July 24, 2006, 11:22:36 PM
Alright Aazealh, I get you,
Let's talk about something else then. How 'bout the diiferences between the each volume descriptions that appear on the dustjacket flaps that're on the original Japanese tankouban, and the dumbass ones that appear on the back of the English releases (ex from vol 3: "If you're looking for graphic fiction to take home to Grandma, this ain't it - unless Granny smokes cigars and rides a Harley!"), urgh! Now why would DH would want to create such a goofy description for a series of such magnitude like Berserk? What the hell is prompting DH to put up shit like this? It sounds like something that came right off of those old-ass and cheesy X-Men or Justice League comics. No wait, scratch that. Even those comics had (for most part) pretty informative and well-written descriptions on their backs. Now at the same time, at the flaps of the dustjacket covers of my tankouban collections, I doubt that there's such a thing. While I read those text fan-translations of the Japanese volumes, they only contained the dialogue translations and that's it. So I've been wondering, just how different is the each volume description on the Dark Horse releases from the original Japanese books' descriptions? I know that this issue was being covered earlier in this topic, but it was left out in the favor of that "SFX translations" one.                     
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on July 25, 2006, 06:54:29 AM
the original Japanese tankouban

It's "tankoubon."

Now why would DH would want to create such a goofy description for a series of such magnitude like Berserk?

Because somewhere, someone has bad taste? Or is mistaken about the targeted audience? Or is trying to bring people who these summaries would interest into Berserk? I think all that matters is that the fans don't like it.

So I've been wondering, just how different is the each volume description on the Dark Horse releases from the original Japanese books' descriptions?

The two are completely unrelated, that's how different. And actually, there's no text on the backcover of these Japanese volumes, just an image of Puck. The summaries are on an inside flap, and they're about the story.

(http://aazealh.net/Divers/Backcover.jpg)
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Uriel on July 25, 2006, 12:48:24 PM
All this talk is crazy. Buy the books people and do your best to ignore them. Sure, I'm not entirely chuffed about it, but I own the series in it's original form anyway and I can tell you it's not a MAJOR difference. Would I prefer if untranslated? Probably. But I'd also like my Blade of the Immortal in it's original format too -- but that ain't gonna happen now is it, kids?

Whoo. I can't believe talk of SFX translation is being discussed just as much/more than the events of Volume 12 :judo:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: CnC on July 25, 2006, 01:16:11 PM
Whoo. I can't believe talk of SFX translation is being discussed just as much/more than the events of Volume 12 :judo:

Theres a whole 'nother thread for that. (http://www.skullknight.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=6444.0)

I think keeping this thread relevant to the way DH releases the volumes is better here, while the other thread can discuss the volumes' content.

All this talk is crazy. Buy the books people and do your best to ignore them. Sure, I'm not entirely chuffed about it, but I own the series in it's original form anyway and I can tell you it's not a MAJOR difference. Would I prefer if untranslated? Probably. But I'd also like my Blade of the Immortal in it's original format too -- but that ain't gonna happen now is it, kids?

I'm not gettin' your argument here.  If you prefer them untranslated then why not buy the originals and be done with it?  My only real argument here is DH needs to do something that makes my re-buying of the manga somehow appealing.  The minor differences you point out that lessen the quality don't do that.
And what better way to voice complaints about the way the releases are handled than to not support them financially? 

Well, I can see i've beaten that dead horse enough so I'm done with that unless anything new comes up.  :serpico:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on July 25, 2006, 01:31:08 PM
I think keeping this thread relevant to the way DH releases the volumes is better here, while the other thread can discuss the volumes' content.

Yes, exactly. That's why both exist in the first place.

If you prefer them untranslated then why not buy the originals and be done with it?

I think he means the SFX untranslated, not the whole manga. But then again I think people do want them translated, just anywhere but on the art. It's a legitimate desire IMHO.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Uriel on July 25, 2006, 02:02:41 PM
If you prefer them untranslated then why not buy the originals and be done with it?

I think he means the SFX untranslated, not the whole manga.
[/list]Bingo. Sorry, CnC. I should have clarified that in my original post :griff:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: smoke on July 26, 2006, 08:31:56 AM
I'm not liking the sound effects translations at all. They're more distracting than anything.

*votes for index rather than textbox superimposing*
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Scorpio on July 26, 2006, 11:52:01 AM
I went ahead and emailed Chris Warner about my concerns on the topic of the translations.  This what I wrote:

I just wanted to express concern over Darkhorse Manga's decision to put translated sound effects into the new Berserk manga release. As a great fan of Miura's vast artistic talent, it bothers me that many of the translated sound effects cover up parts of his work.  I will admit that the boxes are small and usually well placed to minimize coverage, but I would suggest other ways to go about it.  Such as maybe an appendix, or putting all the translations inbetween panels in the white space.

And I also wanted to ask if the translations would be taken out for future reprints?  I plan to buy vol.12 anyway, but if there were any plans to take out the boxes, I would hold out until then.

Thanks for listening to fans, as I know you visit the skullknight.net forums on occasion and are open to feedback. Overall, you guys do a great job and I look forward to every release.  I just think in this particular area you could do better. Thanks again.


This was his response:
We've gotten lots of requests for adding translated sound effects to Berserk, but different people prefer this be done in different ways, and we just can't please everybody. Reading sound effects from appendixes interrupts the flow of the reading experience and adds extra pages and higher printing costs to the book. As for using only white space between panels, in Berserk particularly there simply isn't enough of it for the amount of effects, and when text gets crammed into gutters, the pages can apprear crowded, not to mention the problems we encounter when the only available gutter space has to be used for panels above and below the gutter (this happens a lot more than you'd think), which just ends up a total mess.The small, captioned effects are, in my opinion, the least intrusive method of showing the FX translations.  We considered all options, and I feel we've come up with the best compromise. Sorry it isn't to your liking, and I hope you'll try to get used to it and stick around with us.

Obviously not the answer many of us were looking for, but after reading his reply I can at least respect their decision and perhaps hope for a revision in the future.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on July 26, 2006, 12:12:50 PM
Hi Scorpio, welcome to SK.net and thank you for posting this information.

Chris Warner's reply doesn't surprise me, it's what I would have expected. Though asking if you should hold out for a reprint was a bit ingenuous as no one in their right mind would tell you to do so, even if they were actually planning to change it.

What I'd reply to his arguments though is that when a dozen of core readers that are guaranteed to follow the manga till the end are already telling me they plan on putting the purchase of volume 12 on hold (and that's just on a personal scale), I'm not sure the people pleased by having translations on the art are worth the extra effort. Especially since they bought 11 volumes that didn't have it already, so it's not like they wouldn't buy the rest if that was changed. Also, while the translations might not be very intrusive (and that depends on who you ask, believe me) in their current form, they still are no matter what (something an appendix would completely resolve). Now it's true that reading the sound effects from an appendix breaks the flow of the reading experience if you do it constantly, but at the same time it's more there as a reference for those interested than anything else, hence the appendix. It's also a compromise, let's be clear, but the best one by far in the opinion of quite a bit of people.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: CnC on July 26, 2006, 12:31:28 PM
Its nice to get his take on this.  Thanks Scorpio.

And an additional thanks for putting thought into your letter, it's very professional.

But anyways, his reasoning is deeply flawed (to me).  I've never once, in ANY of the manga I've read (translated or not) stopped reading and thought I HAD to know what a sound effect meant.

Interrupts the flow of the reading experience?!
The sfx in Japanese manga (Berserk is no exception) are usually so integrated with the artwork that their intended effect is almost understood with _no_ prior knowledge of katakana.  And never once while reading a comic of any kind thought that the narrative (reading experience) was greatly effected by the translation of the sound effect ("Wait! Did batman just punch that guy with a 'POW' or a 'SOK'!?  This changes everything!")  If anything the inclusion of the small boxes to cover up the artwork "interrupt the flow of the reading experience" more than any of the options you've listed.

Sorry but its bad enough that the ridiculously juvenile summaries make me feel guilty for owning these and being over the age of 12.  But now to have the art covered (in any way) lessens its value and interrupts the "viewing experience".

No Deal.

And sorry for not having the time to better structure this little rant.  I'm done :)
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Scorpio on July 26, 2006, 12:42:12 PM
I'll think about how I'll respond back, and I'll definetly incorperate some of the points you guys made, as I share a similar view.  But also, if they have been swayed by reader mail to put the translations in, they could probably be swayed by mail from readers against it.  Especially if it is from the hardcore fans such as those on this site.

Aaz:  Well, I said I would be willing to hold out to show that it was a factor that held a lot of weight with me, but at the same time I wanted to give the impression that I was certainly not going to boycot the series over it. It was probably a little too forward, but I hope the point got across.

CnC:  Thanks for the compliment on the letter.

[edit] And thanks for the welcome, I read through the forums fairly often but I never really had a whole lot to say until now
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on July 26, 2006, 12:52:24 PM
But also, if they have been swayed by reader mail to put the translations in, they could probably be swayed by mail from readers against it.  Especially if it is from the hardcore fans such as those on this site.

I know that some members have sent emails already. Sending more would be a good idea I guess, if only for future releases. I've also been thinking about creating a poll on the topic.

Well, I said I would be willing to hold out to show that it was a factor that held a lot of weight with me, but at the same time I wanted to give the impression that I was certainly not going to boycot the series over it. It was probably a little too forward, but I hope the point got across.

Yeah I know, and it's a creditable intention, I just found the way you worded it funny because a bit ingenuous. I'm sure your point got across anyway, don't worry; and CnC is right in that your email was well written.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Señor Caudillo on July 26, 2006, 05:35:26 PM
After reading my copy of DH release of vol 12, I could see that almost all the SFX are placed on the panels in an un-obtrusive manner. In other words, they're on the "neutral" areas of the artwork, where there's nothing happening. So you're not missing out on anything. Now tell me, throughout all those years of reading Berserk, have you ever (at least once) got confused from reading the Japanese SFX, and just wanted to know what it means but couldn't, 'cause you don't know Japanese? It happened to me, and I'm sure to at least some of you. Now just for a second, ignore this "SFX captions covering up the art" crap and only concentrate on the fact that FINALLY the SFX is being translated, so you can enjoy Berserk in its full aspect. The fact is, Dark Horse is actually making a progress with inclusion of the SFX subtitles. Yeah, maybe a bit shaky one, but it's a progress nevertheless. And THAT is something that we can acknowledge. You know, when I sat down and read DH Berserk release of vol 12, for the first time in 2 1/2 years (since I started reading the DH Berserk manga), I was able to read the story and the action at the same time, without trying to guess what each and every one of those katakana SFX's meanings. And while I was worried about how those English SFX subs would get in the way of the artwork, after I got my vol 12 GN, to my (pleasant) surprise, there was no blunt obtrusions of artwork. All the subs read smoothly, with no problems whatsoever.
If you're holding out from buying vol12 of English release, I'd like to say that there's nothing wrong with those SFX subs. So buy it, you won't regret it.   
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: CnC on July 26, 2006, 06:13:04 PM
Do any of you watch movies in widescreen? If so, then y'all know, that in order to create such a "rectangular screen" effect, studios crop away approximately 10% of the image. From the bottom of the screen and from the top and add in those bars. Now, with that, are you missing out on anything when you watch the film on a widescreen? Of course not.

Your analogy is flawed (besides being _completely_ wrong) in that people prefer the widescreen editions (statistically).  I know I do.  Perhaps a better analogy would be this would be the equivalent of being forced to hear the audio track for the blind instead of the regular track. 

A similar logic can be applied to Berserk having its SFX translated. After reading my copy of DH release of vol 12, I could see that almost all the SFX are placed on the panels in an un-obtrusive manner. In other words, they're on the "neutral" areas of the artwork, where there's nothing happening. So you're not missing out on anything.

So now we're judging which part of the panels are important and which aren't?  If a sky or tree may be beautifully rendered but not deemed necessary to the narrative it can be covered?
Perhaps you'd prefer just having the story read to you?

Now tell me, throughout all those years of reading Berserk, have you ever (at least once) got confused from reading the Japanese SFX, and just wanted to know what it means but couldn't, 'cause you don't know Japanese? It happened to me, and I'm sure to at least some of you.

No.  Like I said earlier, this has never been a problem for me.  I'm curious about what part of the book you were so confused about that you couldn't go on until you had heard the literal translation of the sfx.  Thats another thing.  Is the inclusion of a box saying, "hyuuuu" all that informative?  An appendix giving the translation of the sfx and how its being used would solve any confusion you might have.

Now just for a second, ignore this "SFX captions covering up the art" crap and only concentrate on the fact that FINALLY the SFX is being translated, so you can enjoy Berserk in its full aspect.

I love how you said "covering up the art" and "enjoy Berserk in its full aspect" in the same sentence.  I think it sums up your post very well.
To sum up the rest about what you said about "progress", I don't know how you can argue full disclosure being preferable while advocating covering up parts you/DH deem unimportant.  I don't think you can say this is a step in the right direction when the general consensus is that the fans either dislike it or don't mind it.  Thats either a step backwards or a lateral movement.

Cummon DH.  Put in an appendix!  I don't think it'll cost... I mean, "break the reading experience" too much.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on July 26, 2006, 06:25:21 PM
Interestingly enough, they don't crop anything when a movie is presented in wide-screen.  It's when it's in full-screen that the edges are cropped off to format it to a square TV, versus a rectangular theater screen.  And CnC is right, most people prefer the wide-screen because, in the instance of Star Wars Episode 4, you can see the god-damn sand person that Luke is talking about (hopefully people will know which part I mean...).  Anyway, sorry for the off-topic.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: The Perineum Falcon on July 26, 2006, 06:39:04 PM
Do any of you watch movies in widescreen? If so, then y'all know, that in order to create such a "rectangular screen" effect, studios crop away approximately 10% of the image. From the bottom of the screen and from the top and add in those bars. Now, with that, are you missing out on anything when you watch the film on a widescreen? Of course not.
Yeah, seriously, this is ass-backwards. Where do you get your information? :griff:

Interestingly, your bad analogy contradicts your support of the caption boxes in the panels.
The reason I, personally, hate the "full-screen" versions of films, and even moreso those notorious "Pan & Scans", is that there is someone besides the artist determining what portions of the screen are not important and cutting those off, thus losing information, valuable or not.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: handsome rakshas on July 26, 2006, 07:45:37 PM
I went ahead and emailed Chris Warner about my concerns on the topic of the translations.

What an awesome first post! Welcome to SK.net Scorpio! As already said, your email to Chris Warner was very well written and well thought out,
although his reply was not exactly what I wanted to hear.  :judo:
I look forward to your future communications with Chris Warner and you never know what may happen. If you keep your emails as well written as they are now maybe you'll be the person to sway his opinion on the SFX. And if you do that I guarantee that you'll have every future volume at your doorstep!

"Wait! Did batman just punch that guy with a 'POW' or a 'SOK'!?  This changes everything!" 

Hehe, can I nominate CnC and Scorpio to be on the "change Dark Horse's mind" committee? I have never been blessed with the power of persuasion (at least not persuading men  :carcus:) and I have a hard time expressing my thoughts in a professional manner. I really believe that others with a good writing ability can persuade Chris to get the SFX thing if they are persistant and professional.
Or maybe I'm daydreaming, I'll shut up now.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: smoke on July 26, 2006, 08:08:39 PM
One thing Chris Warner said that a lot of you seem to be ignoring is the fact that adding an appendix adds pages and therefore adds to the cost of production.

I don't really have an answer for that point other than I think they'll be losing more revenue in the fans' backlash from messing up the art than they will be from adding one page to each volume.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: CnC on July 26, 2006, 08:24:26 PM
One thing Chris Warner said that a lot of you seem to be ignoring is the fact that adding an appendix adds pages and therefore adds to the cost of production.

I kinda joked about it on my last post, so I don't think we're ignoring it per se.  In fact, I think cost of publication takes more precedence than any interruption of the "reading experience" to an editor.
But thats just my opinion.  And I agree with the rest of your statement, or at least hope its true.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on July 26, 2006, 08:38:45 PM
I could see that almost all the SFX are placed on the panels in an un-obtrusive manner. In other words, they're on the "neutral" areas of the artwork, where there's nothing happening. So you're not missing out on anything.

Well fortunately they're not on the most important parts of the artwork, otherwise nobody would buy the books... "No way, the captions aren't on the characters' faces?! Phew, that was a big apprehension I had!" But seriously, like I said earlier it's really just a matter of personal taste here. It's fine if you don't mind it, but don't imagine that it's the same for everybody else since as you can see by the replies in this thread it isn't the case. Also, because it works with this volume doesn't mean it'll always do. There's bound to be a moment where it'll be messy given the number of volumes to cover, and when that happens it'll be too late to complain. I think my point here is that you should be more careful with your statements in regard to other people.

Translating Japanese sound effects directly while carrying their specific meaning in English isn't an easy task by the way, so in my opinion this system is bound to experience problems. Time will tell.

you can enjoy Berserk in its full aspect.

Sorry, but the only way to enjoy Berserk in its "full aspect" is to read Japanese fluently. Being familiar with Japanese culture is also a plus. Something will always be lost otherwise.

One thing Chris Warner said that a lot of you seem to be ignoring is the fact that adding an appendix adds pages and therefore adds to the cost of production.

Oh, I'm sure adding two pages to a 240 pages book is going to cost a lot to this company that has at least dozens of series printed every month, amounting to tens (hundreds?) of thousands of printed volumes in the end. In no way do they have contracts and agreements with printing companies, and I'm certain these same companies are going to very much mind that extra page as everybody knows that the exact number of pages to print is the most important and costly factor for industrial printing, as opposed to say, calibrating the printers. And that's why volume 01 is sold $13.95 retail when it's 232 pages, the same price than the other volumes which are 240 pages. Makes sense now that I think of it.

It's an argument people not working at DH can't really counter because of the evident lack of precise information, but then again doing an appendix is a gain of time as opposed to editing the panels like I said earlier in the thread. That's less work for an editor (look up panels on every page, find the most discreet yet still comprehensible place to put the textbox on, type the SFX, verify the final aspect, repeat), so in theory they'd gain money on that side of things.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Triple Life on July 26, 2006, 09:08:59 PM
Would anyone like the SFX translations better if they removed the white box around it? It might be harder to read depending on the background, but less of the art would be obstructed. I also think it would be less visually distracting to eliminate the negative space.

I'm not trying to be an optimistic ray of sunshine here, but I do appreciate the effort that Dark Horse is going through to make Berserk as accurate and professional as possible. Each printing and each volume seems to be better than the last. It's always preferrable to get it right the first time, of course, but it does show that they actually care. We know Chris Warner checks this board (And possibly others), so I'm sure they're listening and will try to reach some compromise that pleases most people.

I'm with Aaz about the extra page, though, that cost shouldn't be a big deal for them. Besides what he mentioned, Berserk seems to sell pretty well for them, though it could just be relative to the market. I don't completely buy it, but I'm not going to argue in favor of the appendix. I think eliminating the caption box would be enough for me.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on July 28, 2006, 01:44:59 AM
Well, after reading what Walter wrote several days back...

You won't be helping Berserk by black listing the series because of this supeficial change, you know.

...I decided to change my mind and pick up Vol. 12 of the DH releases today at the Uwajimaya in Seattle (which is conveniently located 2 blocks north of where I work).  I've read through it and am pleasantly surprised by the fact that they have started using the correct term "causality" instead of the iffy "fate" they had used back in Vol. 3.  On another note, not all of the SFX translations are the literal Japanese, many have the American version of the SFX (like "klata klata" instead of "gara gara" for a wagon being pulled by horses, for example).  Also, many of the SFX translations are in the gutters when they have enough room.  While reading through it I wasn't really distracted all that much by them, as I can read the Japanese SFX just fine (the one useful thing that came out of taking a year of Japanese in college  :void:).  All in all, while it's certainly nowhere near perfect, it's still Berserk and I'll be damned if I'm not gonna support it (especially with not owning most of the earlier Japanese volumes).  So yeah, there ya have it. :badbone:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: mahlernut on July 28, 2006, 02:00:17 AM
Does anyone remember the comically bizarre sound effects that Dark Horse used when they were publishing Akira?  I wonder if we should consider ourselves lucky that they've reigned themselves in?  Some classics included "Grrrooo" (manhole being pushed), "Skling" (window being broken), "Flosh" (tank falling into river), and "Kropf" (tank driving through house).  Great stuff
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: SMZKAH on July 28, 2006, 07:39:43 PM
OK, I got my copy today and I absolutely hated the translated sound effects.  I thought they were disruptive and annoying; only a few things could be worse than a white box with the text *FX: (insert sound here), regardless of where it appears on the page.  I'm a bit worried that the manga is becoming a bit too americanized; when Dark Horse announced that they would be releasing berserk in the states, I thought two strong promises they made were that it would remain in the Japanese right to left format, and that the sound effects would remain untranslated.  I don't think the newly translated sound effects are enough to make me stop buying the English releases, but I would really prefer that they stop doing it.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: TheSkyTraveller on July 28, 2006, 09:18:37 PM
I'm a bit worried that the manga is becoming a bit too americanized; when Dark Horse announced that they would be releasing berserk in the states, I thought two strong promises they made were that it would remain in the Japanese right to left format, and that the sound effects would remain untranslated. 

I remember the promise of untranslated sound effects as well.  Another reason why it seems so odd that they were added this late into the series, even if they received some requests for it.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Funkmasta Zeph on July 28, 2006, 11:37:56 PM
I'd be OK with them outside of panels....but inside?
Ugh...
Sfx are subconscious in comics, having them posted like road signs is just defeating the purpose.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Señor Caudillo on July 29, 2006, 01:29:59 AM
I remember the promise of untranslated sound effects as well.  Another reason why it seems so odd that they were added this late into the series, even if they received some requests for it.

Allright, by seeing how a this SFX translations issue is generating so much heat, it's about time I'd chime in my two cents and try and cover the WHOLE picture on DH Manga (at long freaking last) translating the SFX in their English version of Berserk manga.

You see, since early 2000's, DH had partnered up with Digital Manga Publishing and started to license and release more rescent manga, such as Trigun, Trigun Maximum, Hellsing, Berserk an so on. Unlike the manga series that the DH published while being partnenred up with Studio Proteus, such as Akira, Ghost in the Shell, Lone Wolf and Cub, and etc., the manga releases from this recent collaboration came unflipped. But unfortunately, with the good came bad. None of the Japanese sound effects that were in those manga series were translated into English.
Ever since I picked up my copy of Trigun in 2002, those untranslated Japanese SFX plagued me as hell. Even going to a dentist to get my root canal done was more entertaining to me than reading a English translated.... no scratch that, English semi-translated manga, which does not have its sound effects translated. As you guys might have noticed from my previous posts in this thread, I'm no fan of untranslated SFX. I personally believe that when a manga is being translated into English language, those sound effects must be translated as well. And that's whether it is via English captions, or glossary appendixes. As long as they're translated, I've got no problems.
As of 2003, I've been writing numerous letters and e-mails to DH about those untranslated SFX. And this did not just concern Berserk anymore. As King of Wolves (another manga which Kentarou Miura had co-authored), Trigun Maximum, Hellsing, and others followed, this whole "rule" of not to translate the SFX had started to become more and more frighteningly normal. Several comic book and manga reviewing sites even expressed their displeasure and distaste with that, and as well as other fans on various anime and manga message boards. I sure as hell knew, that I wasn't the only one complaining to DH about this whole SFX issue. Then in March of this year, it started to seem like all of mine and numerous other fans' (who wanted translated SFX) efforts to get their Japanese SFX translated into English, paying off. It was all in the form of extra-large vol 1 of  English version of a seinen manga classic (and one of my favorites), Crying Freeman, that the DH had put out. And in that book, there were those un-obstrusive English captions, which were there to translate the all Japanese SFX that were in the release. And now, seeing how vol 12 of Berserk finally receiving its SFX translations as well, I'm at long last happy that I can finally read the comic without having to try and guess the meanings of the katakana SFX. And to me, as long as the English SFX are NOT in those goddamned overly-stylized letterings, be it glossary appendixes or  English captions, as long as they're TRANSLATED, that's fine by me.
So you see guys, getting those Japanese SFX translated for manga titles that I like, and which never had their sound effects translated before, is a major victory for me. And with that, I hope that all the future volume releases of Berserk, and as well as all the re-prints of the first 11 volumes, will receive their SFX translations as well. Whew!! (Damn, that was long!)
Peace out.

Disclaimer: all the opinions that you've just read above, are solely mine, and I don't expect any of you to agree with me, or anything that I've said.     
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: CnC on July 29, 2006, 03:12:25 AM
As of 2003, I've been writing numerous letters and e-mails to DH about those untranslated SFX.

Well, thanks a shit-ton, jack.  :schierke:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Griffith on July 29, 2006, 06:41:26 AM
FX: HONK HONK

What an engrossing tale, it's a lucky thing they saw the error of their ways before you had to commit suicide. Anyway, save the rest for your book, man. Nobody here wants to know your life story about SFX bubbles.

Unless it contains a hot quid pro quo "sfx for sex" scene with Chris Warner. :carcus:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Scorpio on July 29, 2006, 08:38:16 AM
I've actually been writing to various manga publishing companies for a long time as well.  I find it fundamentally disturbing that while a character's facial expression might hint at what hes thinking and feeling, the fact of the matter is I just don't know!  Is that expression one of smug satisfaction or was he concocting some sort of devious plan? I could read ahead, often to just the next panel, to see if he was pleased with himself or if he set off some sort of trap, but that would disrupt the flow of my manga reading experiance.  Instead, I've proposed to these companies to have a little box that has [internal monologue: HAHA! Little do these fools know that in the next panel I will spring a trap involving a spiked pit! And that they will rue the day they were born!] or something similar sprawled into the corrosponding panel.  This may detract from the art, but hell, who needs the actual facial expression when such helpful information is provided? When they finally heed my calls, I can rest easy knowing that I leave no nuance to chance.  Then maybe I can actually sleep at night instead of taking all those pills. It's ruining my life I tell you!

I support BayJumper 110%!
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on July 29, 2006, 11:30:58 AM
Allright, by seeing how a this SFX translations issue is generating so much heat, it's about time I'd chime in my two cents

Hahaha, excuse me but I think you're the one that's been chiming in his 2 cents the most since this whole issue started. There hasn't been one page on which you didn't reiterate your opinion even though everybody knew it already. So yeah, it'd be nice if you could please refrain on posting huge chunks of nothing about it, I think the whole world's got your point now. No offense intended, it's just that it's getting redundant. I know it may be frustrating that a lot of people disagree with you, but insisting about it again and again won't change that.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: CnC on July 29, 2006, 01:30:34 PM
I've actually been writing to various manga publishing companies for a long time as well.  I find it fundamentally disturbing that while a character's facial expression might hint at what hes thinking and feeling, the fact of the matter is I just don't know!  Is that expression one of smug satisfaction or was he concocting some sort of devious plan? I could read ahead, often to just the next panel, to see if he was pleased with himself or if he set off some sort of trap, but that would disrupt the flow of my manga reading experiance.  Instead, I've proposed to these companies to have a little box that has [internal monologue: HAHA! Little do these fools know that in the next panel I will spring a trap involving a spiked pit! And that they will rue the day they were born!] or something similar sprawled into the corrosponding panel.  This may detract from the art, but hell, who needs the actual facial expression when such helpful information is provided? When they finally heed my calls, I can rest easy knowing that I leave no nuance to chance.  Then maybe I can actually sleep at night instead of taking all those pills. It's ruining my life I tell you!

I support BayJumper 110%!

you ARE being sarcastic, right?
right?
please?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on July 29, 2006, 01:43:26 PM
you ARE being sarcastic, right?

Yes, I think he obviously is. :guts:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Funkmasta Zeph on July 29, 2006, 04:51:02 PM
To Bayjumper..

Hey great, I've never been opposed to the idea of translated Sfx myself. In the end I prefer it.

BUT BY JESUS CHRIST there's such a thing as abuse...

Viz Media for instance makes notoriusly LARGE sfx, that can ruin a panels visual balance....
But the sign post sfx?
Much worse. Because they're completely inorganic to the comic page/panels. Any basic class in sequential art would tell you they're bad.

Its a nice gesture from DH, but its still a mistake...
And I really doubt that translated sfx had any real sway on sales or not. Adult titles don't need to worry about impressionable kids...
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: CnC on July 29, 2006, 05:41:46 PM
Yes, I think he obviously is. :guts:

...phew

I just think its pretty awesome a lot of us have changed our avatars in protest.

these forums rule...
...that is all
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Señor Caudillo on July 29, 2006, 05:50:38 PM
...phew

I just think its pretty awesome a lot of us have changed our avatars in protest.

these forums rule...
...that is all

Just FYI, I did not change my goddamn avatar. Someone from SK added [FX: Jumps] near my login name. Fuck.             
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: CnC on July 29, 2006, 06:06:54 PM
Just FYI, I did not change my goddamn avatar. Someone from SK added [FX: Jumps] near my login name. Fuck.             

FYI, nobody changed your avatar.  I and I like the addition to your login name.  Its PROGRESS!
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on July 29, 2006, 07:40:15 PM
I just think its pretty awesome a lot of us have changed our avatars in protest.

It's a signature that started it all though. Often copied, never equalled. :badbone:

Just FYI, I did not change my goddamn avatar.

Geez man, who cares about goddamn you? Everybody can see your avatar is unchanged, so what? Other members changed theirs, CnC commented about it. You don't have an obligation to reply to everything as if it was personally addressed to you... And you can change your username yourself in your profile, learn to use the board and please stop being so uptight. Relax, it's all in good humor.

EDIT: Ok, I took care of your avatar since you were so unhappy you had to post about it. Hope you like it! :casca:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on July 30, 2006, 12:41:58 AM
BayJumper, if you cared about sound effects SOOOOO much all this time, why didn't you just learn the Katakana table?  It would only have taken a week or so at the most. Once you were familiar with the simple characters, you'd be able to understand exactly what's being conveyed without a) DH having to do the work for you b) having to request them to post obstructive boxes all over the place in critical action scenes (imagine what vol 15 will be like, for example... There'll be SFX on every panel in the fight scenes.).

Honestly it would have taken far less effort to learn to read Katakana than write letters for 4 years.   And this is something the Appendix can do for DH readers.  Once readers become familiar with repeated sound effects (wind blowing and swords clanging, for example), they won't have to refer to the appendix EVER again.

We're a goddamned lazy country when it comes down to this sort of shit...

PS: Let me guess your reply...: IT'S THE PRINCIPLE OF THE THING, WALTER! THE PRINCIPLE!
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Señor Caudillo on July 30, 2006, 02:18:36 AM
BayJumper, if you cared about sound effects SOOOOO much all this time, why didn't you just learn the Katakana table?  It would only have taken a week or so at the most. Once you were familiar with the simple characters, you'd be able to understand exactly what's being conveyed without a) DH having to do the work for you b) having to request them to post obstructive boxes all over the place in critical action scenes (imagine what vol 15 will be like, for example... There'll be SFX on every panel in the fight scenes.).

Honestly it would have taken far less effort to learn to read Katakana than write letters for 4 years.   And this is something the Appendix can do for DH readers.  Once readers become familiar with repeated sound effects (wind blowing and swords clanging, for example), they won't have to refer to the appendix EVER again.

We're a goddamned lazy country when it comes down to this sort of shit...

PS: Let me guess your reply...: IT'S THE PRINCIPLE OF THE THING, WALTER! THE PRINCIPLE!

Look man, first off my browser is unable to read any Japanese characters. So this whole katakana table is out of question. Secondly, when I buy an English translated manga, I expect it to be fully translated. I don't like it one bit when an English version of any manga series has the dialogue translated, but not the SFX. And last, allowing a casual reader like myself to be able to understand the Japanese sound effects, is the responsibility of the company, and not of the reader. In other words, when I buy DH's Berserk manga release, I expect the SFX translated into English for me and any other reader who wants to know the meaning of those sound effects. And that's especially considering the fact that I'm paying whopping $14.00 plus the sales tax per volume. 
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Griffith on July 30, 2006, 03:35:16 AM
Look man, first off my browser is unable to read any Japanese characters. So this whole katakana table is out of question.

Life is hard. :guts:

Anyway, you guys don't even seem to be having a coherent argument. The issue isn't translated SFX so much as the bastardization of the artwork here. BayJumper himself said an index would suffice; fine. Of course, he's still lame for not caring that they're fucking it up (among other things), but that's his problem, and more blabber won't change anything. So, everybody loses (except me, 'cause I buy the Japanese editions, anyway =).
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: TheBeast43105 on July 30, 2006, 04:12:26 AM
Wait.......Berserk has sound effects!?!?!? :isidro:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Señor Caudillo on July 30, 2006, 04:13:24 AM
Life is hard. :guts:

Anyway, you guys don't even seem to be having a coherent argument. The issue isn't translated SFX so much as the bastardization of the artwork here. BayJumper himself said an index would suffice; fine. Of course, he's still lame for not caring that they're fucking it up (among other things), but that's his problem, and more blabber won't change anything. So, everybody loses (except me, 'cause I buy the Japanese editions, anyway =).

I do care about Kentarou Miura's art. And as long as those SFX captions remain un-obtrusive, as they were in vol 12, that's just fine by me. Let me tell ya, if Dark Horse had chosen to translate the SFX by completely retouching the original katakana SFX (the way Viz does), or by having those captions covering up anything that's important, then I'd be really upset and outraged. Of course you yourself seem to care less about what kind of a quality product American readers will receive (judging by how you said that you'll just stick to the original Japanese version).

Wait.......Berserk has sound effects!?!?!? :isidro:

Yep. And now, translated in English for the first time ever for your and everybody else's reading (dis)pleasure.  :guts:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Griffith on July 30, 2006, 04:20:20 AM
No, I just don't care about ugly-American readers. Trust me, I wish as much as anyone that DH hadn't botched Berserk in the U.S., and in this case, I'd prefer another method, either altering it as little as possible or using margins or an index. Adding a big fucking box in the panel seems about the most blunt and obtrusive solution (not to mention unimpressive production value; these guys do this for a living?). As you can see, anyone can add boxes in MS paint.

Oh, and let me warn you about double-posting, sometimes things can get accidentally deleted or changed in the combining process. :carcus:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Scorpio on July 30, 2006, 06:43:48 AM
Look man, first off my browser is unable to read any Japanese characters. So this whole katakana table is out of question.

Shit man, I just googled "katakana table" under images and I came up with this: http://www.japan-guide.com/g4/2048_01.gif

Took me all of 16 seconds (not kidding, I timed myself just for the sake of argument).  With a little practice, I'm sure I could cut it down to 8.

And that's especially considering the fact that I'm paying whopping $14.00 plus the sales tax per volume. 

Exactly why I am pissed off that I am paying a whopping $14.00 plus sales tax per volume on butchered art.  The big difference between our gripes is that yours is EASILY solvable by clicking the link listed above.  I, on the other hand, would need to import manga from japan, then look back and forth between an online translation and the graphic novel for each and every text bubble in each and every panel on each and every page.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Griffith on July 30, 2006, 10:08:05 AM
The big difference between our gripes is that yours is EASILY solvable by clicking the link listed above.  I, on the other hand, would need to import manga from japan, then look back and forth between an online translation and the graphic novel for each and every text bubble in each and every panel on each and every page.

Ease up man, you're missing point; the important thing is that BayJumper gets what HE wants and that he doesn't have to do or learn anything.

Hmmmm, perhaps this all could have been avoided had we just gotten his mom to learn Japanese so she could read the original volumes to him instead of the English ones. Whoever's typing his posts, ask him if ever had someone look into getting him a Japanese translator to read it to him in English. Maybe someone whose browser can do Japanese on its own.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on July 30, 2006, 02:51:26 PM
I do care about Kentarou Miura's art.

If you really did, you wouldn't consider anything on it to be unobstrusive. Not even the original speech bubbles, which are obstrusive but are at least placed by the author as he sees fit, to create an overall good effect. Even white, empty space is important in the composition of a scene.

Now in reference to your last (removed) post, I've told you enough times nobody cared about your personal life, so if you still can't understand people's point after all this time, please don't post in this thread anymore. Otherwise it's just spawning endless replies that don't contribute anything new to the debate, and you know this. Persisting on this way would be considered trolling, as you're baiting a variety of other members into derailing the topic (intentionally or not). You don't mind the captions being on the artwork, Ok. Other people may agree or disagree with you, but that's not your business. You're not waging a war on every reader's opinion here. Use PMs if you want to harass people further or reply to their provocations, but be aware that it's at your own risk if they report it as abusive. And that goes for everybody else as well.

This thread's become a mess already, sorry but I'm not going to let this bickering continue till it becomes unsalvable. If you don't have anything new to add, please move to another issue. I won't hesitate to lock it if necessary.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Lithrael on July 30, 2006, 04:14:12 PM
Just for the record, my vote's also WAY for an appendix.  Because with an appendix you can not only transliterate it but explain WTF that noise is supposed to be.  Hell, I can read the Katakana myself, now (and no it wasn't hard to learn) but it'll be years before I automatically know 'gaboshi gaboshi' is the noise for hitting a fish on the head with a baseball bat.

They used to do Evangelion like that waaaay back in the day and I remember really digging that, "gakoro - heavy metallic clang,"  "buchi - giant footstep," "zuzuzu - fast swoosh," stuff that would be ridiculous to try to stick in the sequential art but that was fun to know if you wanted to flip to the last page.

Even so there's only a few fx I've ever run into where context isn't enough.  Like wolf howls where you can't see wolves, or the noise the Berserk armor made after it got punctured (which I now gather was a squeaky metal noise for it bending itself partway back into shape).

So yeah.  Appendix.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: pippin22 on July 30, 2006, 04:45:05 PM
I think an appendix would be silly.  I don't think a silly sound effect is worth going to the back of the book and looking up.  My vote would be no translations of SFX...
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on July 30, 2006, 04:47:44 PM
I think an appendix would be silly.  I don't think a silly sound effect is worth going to the back of the book and looking up.  My vote would be no translations of SFX...

But it would satisfy people wanting them translated, and it would provide information even if you don't want to use it while reading, but only for reference. It's win-win for you. The goal here is to find a solution that everybody (or at least 99.9% of people) would be satisfied with. You have to be considerate of others' desires, otherwise you'll just fall into what I was condemning 3 posts earlier.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: mahlernut on July 30, 2006, 07:14:14 PM
I think it might be worth pointing something out; just being able to read katakana doesn't really enable to you figure out Japanese FX.  I can read them just fine, and sometimes I haven't the vaguest notion what they mean, even with context to help.  That said, if Miura didn't think the sound FX were important, don't you think he'd have either left them out or not made them such an integral part of the art on so many occasions?  Of course, translating the FX in panel?  Bad idea.  Out of panel?  Impossible far too much of a time.  An appendix is the only reasonable option (unless DH were to go as far as they did in Akira and OMG and actually recreate whole panels with translated FX - though even that's a questionable practice IMHO, and leads to grotesque overpricing), but that's something I consider rather essential for a translation.  You can say you don't think the FX are important, but that's just saying that you've gotten used to not knowing what they mean, not that they're not telling you something Miura considered significant.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Griffith on July 30, 2006, 07:21:39 PM
This isn't complicated; saying that nothing is preferable to an appendix full of useful information is just stupid.

The end! :guts:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Funkmasta Zeph on July 30, 2006, 07:28:52 PM
In the end, it really comes down to actually being more work for DH themselves.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Señor Caudillo on July 30, 2006, 11:37:41 PM
In the end, it really comes down to actually being more work for DH themselves.

Exactly. And if they were to include an appendix for the SFX, it would be nice of them to do so. 'Cause as I and everyone else can understand the meaning of those sound effects, and to those who don't want anything obstructing the art, it seems to be the best solution.

And to Zeph,
Dark Horse, while it does not put in an appendix glossary in the back of each book, citing an increase in pages, at the same time it seems to have no problems with putting in those 4-5 pages of advertisements of their other manga series at the end of Berserk graphic novels. While it's typical of DH (and other manga companies) to conduct those shameless self-promotions, rather than to do that, they could've easily replaced those ads with an SFX glossary appendix. If they felt like it, of course.
So, while Chris Warner stated that it would be problematic to use an appendix, maybe he meant that it would take up ad space for the manga series?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on July 31, 2006, 01:09:02 AM
So, while Chris Warner stated that it would be problematic to use an appendix, maybe he meant that it would take up ad space for the manga series?
Aaz has already covered the specifics (http://www.skullknight.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=6487.msg121252#msg121252) of why Chris Warner's "more pages = more money" defense can't really be accurate.  It doesn't add up. If that's truly the case, then how will they handle vol 21, which has several more pages than an average volume? I guess they'll go BANKRUPT from the cost of printing extra pages.  :schierke:

DH is a huge company, they have the capital to back however many pages they have to print to please the fans.  It's really just a matter of convincing the execs that sign the checks that those extra $.002 for a 2-page appendix would be worth the "investment."
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Señor Caudillo on July 31, 2006, 02:07:18 AM
No, I did not say that by adding extra pages to the book would cost DH more money. What I meant was, that Dh would much rather put up advertisements, rather than an appendix. In fact, as a big company that they are, I doubt that their sales will be repressed, if they don't insert ads in the back of each of their books. If DH wanted to, they could include a SFX glossary at the back of each volume, instead of ads. They just don't seem to want to. They're just not interested in doing so, that's all. That's what I meant to say.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: CnC on July 31, 2006, 02:09:36 AM
how many times are we all going to say the same things over and over?

Most people dislike the sfx boxes and all would prefer an appendix.  movin' on...
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Griffith on July 31, 2006, 02:16:39 AM
No, I didn't mean to keeping saying the same thing over and over. That's not what I was saying at all. I was just saying how I don't say the same thing over and over. If I wanted to just say the same thing over and over again, then I'd just say the same thing over and over again. I wasn't trying to keep saying the same thing, otherwise I would have kept saying it. Then I'd be repeating myself, which is what I was trying not to say. That's all I'm saying about what I'm not saying... again.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: CnC on July 31, 2006, 02:20:18 AM
No, I didn't mean to keeping saying the same thing over and over. That's not what I was saying at all. I was just saying how I don't say the same thing over and over. If I wanted to just say the same thing over and over again, then I'd just say the same thing over and over again. I wasn't trying to keep saying the same thing, otherwise I would have kept saying it. Then I'd be repeating myself, which is what I was trying not to say. That's all I'm saying about what I'm not saying... again.

Well why didn't you say that before?!
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on July 31, 2006, 02:31:15 AM
(http://skullknight.net/images/bill_murray.jpg) (http://www.script-o-rama.com/movie_scripts/g/groundhog-day-script-transcript.html)
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Frog on August 02, 2006, 05:25:47 AM
I was glad to see translated SFX in Volume 12.  An appendix would be ideal, but I'd rather have this than nothing.  Not being able to read the sounds actually does affect my understanding of the story in some cases.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on August 02, 2006, 06:11:49 AM
I got mine in a few days ago.  I don't think anyone's yet mentioned that it's not just SFX DH is translating/interpreting.  There's an instance in vol 12 with extensive notes about the context of some phrases, to the effect that I supposed DH is taking this newfound SFX box liberty to new heights by turning the margins into an annotated Berserk.  (http://skullknight.net/images/berserkannotated.jpg)  While I can certainly appreciate DH explaining the background on these details (I never knew anything about these stars), it's even pretty neat information, HOWEVER, putting them smack in the margins draws far too much attention away from the flow of the panels, and ultimately, the atmosphere of the scene.

(http://skullknight.net/images/soundoffuckinglight.jpg)
Here's one of the more liberal translation/interpretation of sound effects
 
Furthermore, DH isn't being very consistent with their rules on the translation of sound effects.  It seems that when they can't think of an English equivalent to a sound effect, they'll just transcribe the katakana.  The effect is a really jumbled mess of either a literal romanization of the katakana ("HYUUUU," for wind), or a complete transliteration ("Gara Gara" becomes "Clata Clata" for horse hooves).  If they're going to translate the FX, I'd really prefer they just stuck with either romanization or transliteration (romanization please...).  But flip flopping between the two is just plain unprofessional, not to mention annoying.

I have to say, I really did try and read the volume as objectively as possible, trying my hardest to take in the little boxes as naturally as I could.  But, no kidding, the boxes were even more obstructive than I'd anticipated.

(http://skullknight.net/images/gonggonggonggong.jpg)
A pretty critical scene where they're so flagrant and numerous, they forcibly jar the reader out of scene's atmosphere.

To be honest, I was straddling the fence on whether or not I cared about the issue.  I figured I could learn to deal with it.  That was before I actually read it though... Now... sheesh, stay tuned  :void:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Akin on August 02, 2006, 07:43:14 AM
I don't think anyone's yet mentioned that it's not just SFX DH is translating/interpreting.  There's an instance in vol 12 with extensive notes about the context of some phrases, to the effect that I supposed DH is taking this newfound SFX box liberty to new heights by turning the margins into an annotated Berserk.  (http://skullknight.net/images/berserkannotated.jpg)  While I can certainly appreciate DH explaining the background on these details (I never knew anything about these stars), it's even pretty neat information, HOWEVER, putting them smack in the margins draws far too much attention away from the flow of the panels, and ultimately, the atmosphere of the scene.
Um... do you actually own the japanese volume 12?  If so, bring it out and flip to page 99. Too bad that "annoying annotated" bit is in there as well....  :schierke:

(arg, I need a camera)
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: yota821 on August 02, 2006, 08:39:17 AM
Yeah, it's also in the Japanese version, but it's mainly annoying because the English just takes up much more room on the page. I guess it's the restriction of the language itself, since in Japanese that certain bit is written veritcally, quite unobtrusively, while English must be written horizontally, taking up space.

That "Gonning" bit is really painful on the eyes, though. :puck:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Akin on August 02, 2006, 09:43:28 AM
Yeah, it's also in the Japanese version, but it's mainly annoying because the English just takes up much more room on the page. I guess it's the restriction of the language itself, since in Japanese that certain bit is written vertically, quite unobtrusively, while English must be written horizontally, taking up space.

That "Gonning" bit is really painful on the eyes, though. :puck:

*pulls out a ruler* actually, if they wouldn't have put "conjunction is a new moon" in it's own separate spot, it would have taken up the same amount of space... I suppose the real problem is they continue to use all caps for footnotes, as capitals tend to be WIDER and take up more space.. seeing as how Latin letters seem to be very verticlal in nature (especially lowercase letters), it's obvious why English isn't written "downwards" ... compare this with  Japanese and Chinese, etc which seem to fit perfectly in a square and seem to be naturally monospace in nature...   ... personally, I find the English to be no more obtrusive...

*looks again* actually the font that the jp version uses in the footnote (sidenote?) seems to be much more thin (or it's a smaller font) than the font used elswhere on the page... compare this with the en volume, where the font is both of the same size and thickness...

On another note, I found it very interesting when I read/was comparing the jp with en of volume 12 that miura left a big chunk of space below the panel... I'm thinking miura was thinking ahead and consitering that when it would be translated into other languages, that they would want to write horizontally below the panel.... hrm...

---
Regardless, there are many options for dealing with sound effects, and out of all of them, they picked the worst by far (when I was reading it, which was the day it came out, I was reminded of some of the crappy scanlations I read back in 2000)....  If you give me a minute, I'll list the other options of dealing with sound effects...
here are the options, as well as my thoughts on them (and examples from things lieng around in my room)... (warning, may not be worth reading if you don't want to hear some tired person comparing various ways to deal with sfx)
1. Keep the Japanese sound effects, and don't bother translating them, or putting any note whatsoever about the meaning.  This move, which appears to have been popularised by Tokyopop (originally to save money), was the option that Dark Horse has been going with so far.  The company has the least chance of screwing things up, but most of the audience is given no chance as to the meaning.
2. Don't translate at all, except for cases where knowledge of the sound effect is needed to understand the story.  This is what Tokyopop seems to be doing for some of their stuff these days. (I noticed a few were translated in Ai Yori Aoshi) A bit better than option 1, I suppose, but what of the times when knowledge of the sound effect would be usefull, but not needed?
3. Don't translate, but put an appendix in the back of the book listing every sound effect that is used in every panel on every page.  Most of Excel Saga, volume 1 picks this option. While it DOES provice context, for many series that use a lot of sfx, it can be annoying to flip to the back of the book 8 times per page.
4. Translate, and replace: The classic solution.  Personally, I think what made Tokyopop's "100% authentic" style so popular wasn't that they left the sfx there untranslated, but that they didn't fuck with the artwork by flipping it. (hay look, all of the sudden everyone is left handed, except for one or two people in the whole series!)... Looking around my room, I'm seeing Vis do this a lot. This is an option to be taken with care: I'm for it, but only if A. the font is similar-looking.  AND B. You put the text in a similar fation in the panel. ...I'm not sure if this would work for berserk though, sense the background is typically not a simple white space or shade like it is in most manga series.
5. Translate, and put next to/on top of the original with an SFX type font. I've noticed some smaller translation companies doing this...  I doubt any of you have it, but "Na Na Na Na", volume 1 does this (using a similar font). Done incorrectly, this can make the sfx twice as annoying... Looking at the way ADV Manga does "Steel Angel Kurumi" is even worse... they leave the original stuff, then they throw their other stuff in there, with a very different font.  Bleh.... Sometimes they even put the sfx in a very different part of the panel, while leaving the original there.... hell, they don't even bother to simply replace text said by a character when it isn't in a word bubble, by the looks of it...
6. Keep them, and put in small, plain text near or next to the sound effect what it says (in cases of large samples, sometimes on top of).  Del Rey seems to be doing this, and I personally like it.... This may be the best option for berserk, I'm not sure...
7. The crappy scanlation group solution: translate and put either the meaning or the romanization in a rectangular box outside, or in some horrific cases, INSIDE the panel!  This is what Dark Horse chose for volume 12... I swear, I haven't seen this in /years/... I was having flashbacks from some of the scanlations that I read back in 2001ish.  Totally unacceptable, especially for berserk

I suppose the best option for berserk may be option 6, with option 2 coming in an acceptable second... I'd say potion 4 would be good, but the background has too much art in it typicaly, and unless dark horse has access the un-SFXed art, then it isn't a real option (as I don't want to see them try to redraw the background).

edit: added solutions
Edit: wait, we're still using this old thread?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: CnC on August 02, 2006, 10:29:24 AM
gonnnng!!!1

wow... thats really annoying.

jeez akin.. is that really worth reading!?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on August 02, 2006, 12:23:46 PM
I'm thinking miura was thinking ahead and consitering that when it would be translated into other languages, that they would want to write horizontally below the panel.... hrm...

That's incredibly far-fetched, and definitely not the case. Also, while I can't blame Dark Horse for following the Japanese volume as far as on-page explanations go, the original is actually more discreet in my opinion.link (http://aazealh.net/Divers/Volume12-Stars.jpg)

Oh, and next time you post about your personal life in a thread, be sure to read it first. Otherwise I'll remove your post. You could have summarized your opinion without making that gigantic comparative list too, that'd make it easier to read. But that's up to you I guess.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on August 02, 2006, 02:31:09 PM
Um... do you actually own the japanese volume 12?  If so, bring it out and flip to page 99. Too bad that "annoying annotated" bit is in there as well....  :schierke:

(arg, I need a camera)
Wow, I didn't remember that at all (no surprise really).  Yes, I do own volume 12 (and 1-30...).  I just unsafely assumed DH was making shit up.  But don't get me wrong, it was definitely an oversight on my part, professor. No reason to get SNOOTY though  :carcus:  I think my other points are still valid, and even though you don't address them directly, you kind of explained your way into a block of text.

for many series that use a lot of sfx, it can be annoying to flip to the back of the book 8 times per page.
I've seen people mention this, and while I can understand the logic in the classical sense of arguing it against all the other methods, no one in their right mind would do that on their initial reading of the volume.  I admit it's the greatest weakness of the appendix, when put in those terms.  However, to me, the sound effects are something that can still be understood AFTER the initial reading, and still be appreciated.  I acknowledge that for the PURISTS who haven't read the series yet and want the full experience up front with no re-reads, this just isn't an option, but I just can't relate to them, really.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Funkmasta Zeph on August 02, 2006, 10:50:50 PM
Well I got it.

To be honest it didn't bother or distract that much at all.

But it didn't add anything either. Meaning it didn't ruin the read, but failed at being SFX.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Señor Caudillo on August 05, 2006, 02:49:07 AM
While I appreciate DH going all the way, and translating the SFX, the fact that they sometimes transliterate the Japanese SFX into English, and sometimes just romanize them, that started to get annoying. I noticed that after re-reading their English release of volume 12. Dark Horse should've just stuck with transliteration of the SFX all the way to the end.

In fact, a similar problem seems to be existing with Dark Horse's dialogue translation as well. Sometimes they "Americanize" the dialogue (like Wyald talking like a "gangsta" rapper, after getting impaled by Zodd's horns towards the end of vol 11). Or sometimes they choose stay too literal to the original Japanese dialogue.     
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Funkmasta Zeph on August 05, 2006, 03:06:02 AM
Gangsta is using words like "aint" and "shoulda"?

I think its just to give him an unsophsticated edge, I wouldn't be suprised if that were true of the original...
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Señor Caudillo on August 05, 2006, 03:23:15 AM
Gangsta is using words like "aint" and "shoulda"?

I think its just to give him an unsophsticated edge, I wouldn't be suprised if that were true of the original...

Well, while being stabbed by Zodd's horns, Wyald pleads Nosferatu to spare him. Then he starts to claim that Griifith doesn't have the Beherit in his possession, by repeatedly shouting "He don't got it! He don't got it!"
That Dark Horse's "translation" of Wyald's lines sure looks gangsta enough to me.
But who knows, maybe they were trying to interpret Wyald's character from the Japanese version, since from what I heard, Wyald's got a pretty informal speech in the original Japanese version of the manga. But, it seems like they kinda overdid it here.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on August 05, 2006, 08:07:29 AM
Or sometimes they choose stay too literal to the original Japanese dialogue.     

What's wrong with a literal translation of the Japanese dialogue?  Isn't that the whole point?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on August 05, 2006, 02:56:32 PM
Dark Horse should've just stuck with transliteration of the SFX all the way to the end.

You know, aside from the fact that romanizing something is actually transliterating it into the Roman alphabet, you're just repeating what's been said pages ago right now. Inconsistency in the way the SFX are treated isn't surprising, and I won't be surprised either if their handling is also inconsistent from one volume to another. Then one day even you will find some of them obtrusive on a page here and there, not to mention the inevitable ones that will look messy due to the inherent complexity of their transcription. Because like I said earlier, translating SFX accurately and properly really isn't simple. It's easier said than done.

That's why I advocated the use of an appendix from the beginning. It's more convenient for readers overall (and satisfies the large majority, it's some form of consensus) as they have more information and that information is more precise, and it's far easier and simpler for the translator(s) and editor(s) as well. It will be too late to regret having endorsed the wrong solution by the time the English version of volume 30 is out, it's now that foresight is needed.

What's wrong with a literal translation of the Japanese dialogue?  Isn't that the whole point?

No, translating too literally is never good. The hardest part in translating is the adaptation of the text to another language and culture. It's good to stay close to the original Japanese meaning, but not to the point where it's unpleasing for the readers (not saying this is the case with DH's volumes). I could give you plenty of examples, but this isn't really the appropriate thread for it. Anyway, I have a feeling our friend BayJumper isn't well versed in Japanese, and I suggest that non-Japanese speakers in general leave these matters aside if possible, as they're not apt to evaluate them (not to mention that we have another thread dedicated to the problems of DH's translations).
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: A.C on August 05, 2006, 07:22:39 PM
http://skullknight.net/images/soundoffuckinglight.jpg
Here's one of the more liberal translation/interpretation of sound effects
 
wait, dimming light has a sound?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on August 05, 2006, 08:31:15 PM
wait, dimming light has a sound?

Pretty much everything does in Japanese. And it's not an actual sound, just a mimetic word representing a specific action.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: coolerimmortal on August 10, 2006, 05:50:22 AM
Ech...I'm not really seeing the problem with translated SFX. If the actual art had been edited, SFX removed, and replaced with English text, then yes, it would be bad. But small notes in the margins? That's useful, not irritating.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on August 10, 2006, 09:32:38 AM
But small notes in the margins?

They're not in the margins but on the artwork most of the time, that's the problem. Did you follow the conversation at all?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Darth on August 14, 2006, 05:33:33 PM
Volume 13 is still set to drop on 9/27/06 (stupid sticker and all ::))
and volume 14 is set to be released on 11/29/06

i normally just post dates for the series, but i have to admit.. Volume 13 & 14 were really amazing, and are two of my favorite books from the Berserk series.
But, then again i say that about every volume of Berserk lol  :SK:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: TheBeast43105 on August 14, 2006, 05:51:21 PM
Volume 13 is still set to drop on 9/27/06 (stupid sticker and all ::))

At least its just a sticker that you can remove, if it was actually part of the cover, then i would be very irritated.  :chomp:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on August 14, 2006, 06:11:38 PM
At least its just a sticker that you can remove, if it was actually part of the cover, then i would be very irritated.  :chomp:

Yup, we can at least be thankful the actual art wasn't tampered with (other than making the image bigger, since DH apparently doesn't believe in borders :schierke:).
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: The Perineum Falcon on August 14, 2006, 06:28:19 PM
whoa, total déjà-vu, guys. :griff:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Señor Caudillo on August 19, 2006, 12:51:20 AM
With DH's unwillingness to translate the SFX (at least for the for the first 11 volumes anyway), translation/printing quality, and the tiny paperback size, Berserk might as well been licensed by TOKYOPOP. The only difference, is that in TOKYOPOP's hands each volume would've cost only $9.99, instead of $13.95. Well, at least I'm glad that DH isn't gonna screw with the cover art of volume 13.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: CnC on August 19, 2006, 01:51:45 AM
Talking about vol 12 is as same as beating on a dead horse now.

And yet... you still post about it.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Señor Caudillo on August 19, 2006, 03:01:46 AM
And yet... you still post about it.

Sorry 'bout that, CnC. Just removed the offending portions of my previous post.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Billybob on August 27, 2006, 09:47:49 PM
Volume 13 is still set to drop on 9/27/06 (stupid sticker and all ::))
and volume 14 is set to be released on 11/29/06

i normally just post dates for the series, but i have to admit.. Volume 13 & 14 were really amazing, and are two of my favorite books from the Berserk series.
But, then again i say that about every volume of Berserk lol  :SK:

Volumes 14-22/23 is probably my favorite part of Berserk.  I am really hyped for the American releases and am glad Dark Horse quickened the pace a bit. 
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Oburi on August 28, 2006, 12:12:46 PM
Volumes 14-22/23 is probably my favorite part of Berserk.  I am really hyped for the American releases and am glad Dark Horse quickened the pace a bit. 
Really, Volume 14-roughly 23 is your favorite part. Isn't that the Lost Children Arc. Not that theres anything wrong with that, I just can't believe it's your FAV section of berserk. And the new sfx do bother me a little bit, but I'm sure it's because I'm not used to them, After a couple of volumes it will be fine I think, as long as it stays off the artwork. Overall though DH is kinda putting me on the edge of my seat, especially after that "Friend" came on to the boards and told everyone their translating process, that didn't help.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on August 28, 2006, 12:26:26 PM
Isn't that the Lost Children Arc.

The Retribution arc spans from volume 14 to the end of 21. After that it's the Millennium Falcon arc. The Lost Children chapter starts in volume 14 and ends in 16.

Not that theres anything wrong with that, I just can't believe it's your FAV section of berserk.

It's the favorite part of many, many Berserk fans.

And the new sfx do bother me a little bit, but I'm sure it's because I'm not used to them, After a couple of volumes it will be fine I think, as long as it stays off the artwork.

Dude, they're not off the artwork. They're ON it. That's what everybody's been complaining about.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Oburi on August 28, 2006, 02:26:58 PM
I also hate the fact that the boxes appear on the artwork  I just remember being scared that they were going to edit out the original sfx and add new ones or something like that. It's still horrible how it is, I just meant that maybe I can get used to it now. DH's inconsistency is really annoying but what can we do, right an angry letter?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on August 28, 2006, 02:30:06 PM
Really, Volume 14-roughly 23 is your favorite part. Isn't that the Lost Children Arc.
Well, volume 14-16 contains Lost Children.  But it's not THAT long, ya know. 

Quote
Not that theres anything wrong with that, I just can't believe it's your FAV section of berserk.
It's pretty high up there for a lot of people, myself included. 
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Oburi on August 28, 2006, 02:36:46 PM
Well, volume 14-16 contains Lost Children.  But it's not THAT long, ya know. 
It's pretty high up there for a lot of people, myself included. 
O don't get me wrong I cherish every page of Berserk I'm simply saying that if I had to choose a favorite part I think the lost children arc, as great as it is, wouldn't be up there. It's more like a side story right? But I know now that he meant all the volumes from 14-23, not the lost children specifically.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on August 28, 2006, 03:07:30 PM
what can we do, right an angry letter?

That's what people did to have SFX put on the books, so... yes?

the lost children arc

Geez guys it's not an arc but a chapter, do my posts count for nothing or what? Retribution arc, Lost Children chapter.

It's more like a side story right?

No, it's not.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Oburi on August 28, 2006, 03:44:55 PM
That's what people did to have SFX put on the books, so... yes?
who would do such a thing?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: CnC on August 28, 2006, 03:46:34 PM
what a strange little debate.

Why is it so hard to beleive a lot of people love the retribution arc?
And the Lost Children chapter was in-fuckin-credible, imo.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Oburi on August 28, 2006, 03:59:06 PM
what a strange little debate.
Why is it so hard to believe a lot of people love the retribution arc?
And the Lost Children chapter was in-fuckin-credible, imo.
Sorry if I sound like I'm debating.  I love the Retribution arc and the lost children chapters and I'm glad it's someones favorite I just thought someone said the lost children chapter was their fav. part of berserk and I thought it was strange just because of all the epicness of whats happening now and in things like the Retribution arc and such. I recall in other threads people saying you could take out the lost children chap. and the story would make perfect sense still, thats why I thought it seemed like a side story.  But trust me I don't mean to debate.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on August 28, 2006, 05:43:46 PM
And the Lost Children chapter was in-fuckin-credible, imo.

I agree whole-heartedly.  Berserk contains way to much awesomeness for me to pick just one part as my favorite, but if I had to, the Lost Children CHAPTER (not poking fun at you, Aazealh, this is just how I show my support of the correct terminology :badbone:), would definitely be among the strongest contenders.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on August 28, 2006, 06:06:35 PM
who would do such a thing?

Read this thread and you will know. (http://www.skullknight.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=6715.msg121500#msg121500) :SK:

I love the Retribution arc and the lost children chapters and I'm glad it's someones favorite I just thought someone said the lost children chapter was their fav. part of berserk and I thought it was strange just because of all the epicness of whats happening now and in things like the Retribution arc and such.

Well you know, there's quite a lot of epic things that happen in volumes 14 to 23. Among them many which are absolutely vital to the plot and the development of all the characters (considering the vast majority of current main characters was introduced in these books). I mean it's so obvious I can't resign myself to explain it. I couldn't even make a list because it'd be too long. Just keep in mind that the current events are a direct result of what happened in these volumes.

I recall in other threads people saying you could take out the lost children chap. and the story would make perfect sense still, thats why I thought it seemed like a side story.

Yeah there's like one guy that said so to justify his stupid movie idea once, but that's not the kind of person you want to take your opinions from, really (and I think he retracted himself afterwards anyway). Besides, like I said before volumes 14-23 encompass far more than this one chapter.

It's nothing big that different people like different parts of the story more than others. Anyhow, let's not drag that discussion on and on for no reason. You were surprised, Ok. Turns out that it's really many people's favorite part of the manga. Case closed. :serpico:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Scorpio on August 30, 2006, 08:12:10 PM
Sent another email to Chris Warner, so I will list that along with his reply.

My email:
I would like to thank you for responding to my previous email, and for listing the reasoning for DarkHorse's decisions. However, among the things you said, some felt contradictory to me. You mentioned you tried to go for the least intrusive method, but boxes containing sound effects in the panels (however small they may be) still cover up artwork. I think the least intrusive method is inarguably an appendix, as the original pages aren't altered at all. As you mentioned, this would increase printing costs, but when you consider what would be one or two pages out of two to three hundred, this isn't much. Especially on such a large printing scale. The fact that not every volume has the same number of pages but retails for the same price suggests that DarkHorse has to be fairly flexible of the total pages in their released volumes.

An appendix would disrupt the flow of reading to a small degree, that is true, but at the same time so do the boxes containing the SFX. I have read through vol. 12, and there were parts that, to quote a friend of mine, "[in certain scenes] they're so flagrant and numerous, they forcibly jar the reader out of the scene's atmosphere." And all of this doesn't even touch on the visual balance of the pages, which is something Miura excels at. Yet this balance is often ruined by the intruding boxes.

Personally, I have no need for sound effect translations of any kind, but I understand that to some people it is very important, to the level of the displeasure I have with the boxes. What I'm suggesting is a compromise that would include SFX, but would keep all the art unspoiled at the same time. I also think those in favor of translations would enjoy an appendix more, as more information could be provided, even possibly cultural explanations or background. Lastly, I believe it would be a gain of time for the editors as well, more work being needed to edit artwork than to format a simple white page containing short lines of text.

Again, thank you for your time, it's much appreciated.


Chris Warner's reply:
I totally disagree that an appendix is intrusive to a small degree. Having to flip forward and back every page is a total disruption of the reading experience. That said, this is a completely unsolvable puzzle--no one seems to agree on what they want. You don't mind if the effects aren't translated, others begged for it. Some want completely retouched sound effects, others think this heresy. Some want appendixes, others absolutely hate them. Regarding the caption boxes, they are small, and we try to place them in dead areas of the art, or in gutters, wherever possible. I'm striving to make them less obvious (guttered captions weren't supposed to be boxed, and that will change for issue 14), but you're going to have get used to them, because that's how we're going to handle them from here out.

I have to say that I am very dissapointed with his response.  He completely ignored some of his previous arguments and beat around the bush on others. When he talks about how I didn't mind untranslated effects and others begged for it, I had already touched on that and it was completely unnecessary. I have no idea how Im going to write back, as he has apparently attempted to close the book on the discussion, but I'll try to think of something.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: CnC on August 30, 2006, 09:19:35 PM
thats really borderline infuriating, Chris. 

Who the hell "begged" for "hyuuuu"?!  Jeez, that shit's real informative.  I'm glad that you think that inserting gibberish _on top_ of the art doesn't break the reading experience. 

Sorry, but when it comes to people absolutely vehemently opposed to appendixes,  I say "prove it".  I don't believe it.  And I don't think I'm alone on that.

I especially love the "editorial decision" made to cover up the negative space of the artwork.  I mean, Miura must have just got lazy and decided to leave some dead areas, right?

Get used to it?  Sure!  I ain't buyin' them!  To hell with it.  I withdraw any request for a larger format, as its not worth the extra scale when the work inside is willingly defecated on.  I'll support the original Japanese manga and be done with it, thank you.

PS.  how do you miss that the gutter sfx captions were boxed?!  That seems like it would be rather noticeable.  I guess the reading experience was such that one should completely ignore them

PPS.  Thanks Scorpio for keeping us up to date.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Scorpio on August 30, 2006, 10:34:20 PM
I would have to agree, I dont plan on buying any further release. I try to be polite and form solid arguments for my point of view and how they could benefit the majority of people, and he just brushes me aside by spouting gibberish worthy of Sony executives, and then tells me to get used to it.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: TheSkyTraveller on August 30, 2006, 10:35:11 PM
Argh. 

Well, thank you for taking the time to write, Scorpio.  I'd been meaning to write for weeks, but the hard line response you received is really discouraging.  Add that to the fact that I had written about problems early on in the US publication, and that others had written about numerous things since then, I don't know how else to solve the problem.  Apparently they are only listening to people that have the opposite opinion we do! :???:

I've gotten to the point where I think I just am too frustrated to deal with it anymore.  I don't think I'll be buying the rest of the US edition after this, either.  Especially if we get treated to "groovy" translations.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: TheBeast43105 on August 31, 2006, 01:14:23 AM
An appendix appeases the most people I would think.  If you were one of the people who didnt care either way for the sound effects, alright then, keep reading without consulting it. If you were one of the people who "begged for it" then im sure marking the beginning of the appendix and doing a quick back and forth flip wont be a terrible problem. Others have pointed out that it wouldnt cost much more either.

I would rather flip back and forth to the appendix than have white blocks permanentaly etched onto the artwork. Im sure the Dark Horse people will say that others dont have the same opinion as me, but i honestly think an appendix is the best way to go, because obviously not EVERYBODY can be satisfied, and no matter what, some people arent going to be happy. I think it would satisfy the most fans.

Theres my two cents anyhow.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: KuraiDragoon on August 31, 2006, 05:52:02 AM
I finally just read through 12, and I have to say the FX boxes are annoying. They're distracting.. and they're really much less informative then I was expecting. Seeing "dododododododo" and "hyuuuuuuuuu" 3 times on the same page doesn't add anything to the story for me, it just takes away part of the artwork. I guess I can live with it.. it's not that bad.. but I'd rather they not be there.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: A.C on August 31, 2006, 06:05:29 PM
nice of you to take the time to write up an Email. i only wish you would have mentioned something about the awful transliterations and the fact that future volumes will not always have "dead areas" of the artwork to put FX boxes on.

also, i don't think we should be discouraged by Chris' response. it doesn't really matter what his response is as long as he gets more letters that are against the FX than whatever the amount that was initially begging for translations. the POLL Aaz made seem to suggest that more emails against the FX shouldn't be that hard to achieve.

and is Chris the only one we can email about this issue?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: CnC on August 31, 2006, 07:26:19 PM
and is Chris the only one we can email about this issue?

well, he _is_ the editor. 

While it was nice to have him stop by every now and then and explain why certain decisions were made, I think his response to the criticism of the fx boxes is just the straw that broke the camel's back.  Or at least this is the case to me.

On top of this whole fx blunder we have inaccuracies in translation, subtle references to movies that go outside of character, and the most childish summaries imaginable printed on the back of every single volume. 
Now if a friend were to ask me what series to get I still wouldn't hesitate to recommend berserk to them (probably with the addendums on what to ignore), but as far as I'm concerned (as someone who owns the Japanese books) its completely a waste of investment to get the DH releases. 

They either are incompetent or don't care. Either is unacceptable when it comes to this series.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Señor Caudillo on September 01, 2006, 03:43:13 AM
 
 On top of this whole fx blunder we have inaccuracies in translation, subtle references to movies that go outside of character, and the most childish summaries imaginable printed on the back of every single volume.  \

The logo. You've forgot to mention that ugly-assed, overly-stylized and "cheesy horror flick from the '80's" Berserk logo that Dark Horse uses on each and every American release, to top it all off. I don't whether they couldn't simply copy and use the English Berserk logo (which looks helluva lot better) that appears on the back of each original Japanese tankoubon, or they just let their "creativity" carry them away. But whatever the reason is, I don't like it. I wonder if  :miura: himself had actually approved of DH using that damn thing?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on September 01, 2006, 11:23:27 AM
I wonder if  :miura: himself had actually approved of DH using that damn thing?

He doesn't have any contact with Dark Horse, so definitely not.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: A.C on September 01, 2006, 02:21:18 PM
I have no idea how Im going to write back, as he has apparently attempted to close the book on the discussion, but I'll try to think of something.
i think you should just write back how you feel about this whole thing. don't go for questions or expect a reply, just write and say that you are disappointed. i mean we all should be considering that DH even promised that the Berserk manga would not have translated sound effects when it was first announced. (you could mention something about that) also, tell him about the transliterations not being proper translations anyway and that there will not always be "dead areas" of the artwork in future volumes and that he shouldn't make such a decision without knowing this can really be pulled off in every volume of the Berserk manga.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Señor Caudillo on September 02, 2006, 03:23:39 PM
He doesn't have any contact with Dark Horse, so definitely not.

Well, doesn't Dark Horse notify at least the Hakusensha about how they're going to publish their manga? And also, I know that Dark Horse keeps in touch with the authors of the manga, whenever they need to do something to their manga that they (DH) had licensed. That includes flipping the manga, completely retouching the sound effects, censoring, and/or creating new covers and logos for the American release of the manga. Even though there's an existing English Berserk logo on the back of the original Japanese tankoubon, Dark Horse decided to create and use their own distasteful looking one. Just check the picture at Amazon.com

Link to Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Berserk-Vol-1-Kentarou-Miura/dp/1593070209/sr=1-3/qid=1157214410/ref=pd_bbs_3/103-6341585-0031032?ie=UTF8&s=books)

Looks splendid, doesn't it?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on September 02, 2006, 04:33:41 PM
Well, doesn't Dark Horse notify at least the Hakusensha about how they're going to publish their manga?

They have some contact with Hakusensha, although it's minimal and very formal from what Chris Warner said in one of his posts here. Dark Horse likely showed the cover design to Hakusensha and they didn't object to it; respect of the original cover art is probably all they care about. "If those crazy westerners want a heavy metal title, let them have one."

And also, I know that Dark Horse keeps in touch with the authors of the manga, whenever they need to do something to their manga that they (DH) had licensed.

Dark Horse has not revealed to have had any direct contact with Kentarou Miura so far and will most likely not have any in the future, from what Chris Warner said on this very forum.

As Licensors, the original publishers contractually call the shots. Also, for the most part, we don't have direct contact with the creators. Overall, our relationships with our licensors in Japan are very good, but the relationships tend to be very formalized. The upside is that usually we don't receive a great deal of interference [...]

Don't forget that searching for information can often provide answers to your questions without even requiring you to post. Also, you should know that Miura apparently doesn't share with Hakusensha anything more than what is strictly needed for publication regarding Berserk, which led to some frustration on their side in the past (something like not knowing much more about it than normal readers). Knowing this, an extensive collaboration on details of foreign editions seems rather unlikely, not to mention that he's always very busy with his work.

Just check the picture at Amazon.com

Thanks but I saw that logo years ago, most probably before you did yourself. I think it could be worse, honestly, although it uselessly obtrude on the cover art (volume 13 comes to mind). Rest assured, many people agree with you about its distastefulness and complained about it when it was first divulged, but to no avail. In any case, they're not changing it.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Auturgist on September 02, 2006, 10:22:21 PM
On top of this whole fx blunder we have inaccuracies in translation, subtle references to movies that go outside of character, and the most childish summaries imaginable printed on the back of every single volume.

I'm with you on the FX boxes -- I don't like 'em at all.  (Personally, I see no real point to translating sound effects.  I mean, you can imagine what most things sound like.  I wish they weren't even in the art in most cases, but you know, I'm not the artist.  And maybe Miura doesn't even want to do them, but the precedent exists... who knows?)

What inaccuracies in translation are you talking about?  Those made in the first three volumes (such as the mistake with "fate" as opposed to "causality"), or are there others?  Because I'd argue the translations are top notch from volume 4 onward, when Duane Johnson took over.

We've been over the "subtle references to movies that go outside of character", and I can't help finding it ridiculous that you all go on complaining about this ONE WORD used to make that reference.  Especially in light of how many of you have admitted you aren't actually reading or buying the DH releases anyway.  And further in light of the fact that many people who are have said that they think the translations are excellent (regardless of how they feel about other things like the FX boxes, which is a totally seperate issue that does warrant controversy).

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They either are incompetent or don't care. Either is unacceptable when it comes to this series.

It's so easy for you to say that because you make little attempt to understand that individuals involved are not all part of the same corporate machine that you see trying to ruin your favorite manga series for a buck.  It's more complex, and many of the people involved are totally competent and care more than you realize or would ever admit, because you want to keep on blasting how imperfect the Dark Horse versions are.  If you have the Japanese versions, and want your own perfect translations: scan them, digitally edit your own translations into the text bubbles, and keep them on your hard drive for your own perusal whenever you want to read BERSERK in English.  Nobody's stopping you from doing that.  Hell, I keep the scripts Duane gives me and edit them to my own taste after we go over them, precisely because I'd rather read "my own version" along with the Japanese volumes, than what we have to submit to Dark Horse.

I guess ultimately my point is that in the world of business, compromises have to be made.  Not everyone agrees with all of them, but that's how money is made and the fact remains, however despicable, that BERSERK needs to make money if it's going to continue being published in English.  If you can prove to Dark Horse it would make more money being published differently, write letters to make that point.  But if you aren't buying -- or at least willing to buy -- them in the first place, all your complaints amounts to nothing.  And at the end of the day, if the English version of BERSERK isn't something you would buy, it's no worse than if there were no English version at all, and you had to stick with your Japanese volumes.

I'm sure there are people who disagree with translations of literature, and don't buy those versions.  The option of doing it yourself is always available, even if the right to sell your version isn't.

But calling talented people "incompetent" simply because they realize and accept the fact that compromises must occur isn't right.  And saying they "don't care" is just naive.  It establishes that you are an idealist, but not that you know what you're talking about when you comment on those people.  I'd ask you to reconsider that comment.   :schierke:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: CnC on September 03, 2006, 12:23:15 AM
What inaccuracies in translation are you talking about?  Those made in the first three volumes (such as the mistake with "fate" as opposed to "causality"), or are there others?  Because I'd argue the translations are top notch from volume 4 onward, when Duane Johnson took over.

I realize you like your boss and are defensive in any discussion on how the overall quality of the translation.  Granted, there aren't that many mistakes.  My statement was meant as more of a "straw that broke the camel's back"-type argument with the fx boxes being the final reason to not buy.

We've been over the "subtle references to movies that go outside of character", and I can't help finding it ridiculous that you all go on complaining about this ONE WORD used to make that reference.  Especially in light of how many of you have admitted you aren't actually reading or buying the DH releases anyway. 

Well firstly I will state that I was buying the volumes.  I recently stopped.  However thats not really the issue, is it? 
And you're quick to understate your own handywork, eh?  You were the one who opened this floodgate with that "look for a subtle reference from Dune" -line.  What were you expecting?  A cookie?   
...groovy

It's so easy for you to say that because you make little attempt to understand that individuals involved are not all part of the same corporate machine that you see trying to ruin your favorite manga series for a buck.  It's more complex, and many of the people involved are totally competent and care more than you realize or would ever admit, because you want to keep on blasting how imperfect the Dark Horse versions are. 

Believe me, I'd want nothing more than for DH to handle the series to the best of its ability.  Its my opinion that its not.  I draw _no_ satisfaction from that.  To state otherwise is childish considering how long I've been a fan of the series.  I wish DH well for bringing berserk to the US, but that does not excuse them from covering up the artwork.

I'm sure there are very competent people working for DH, all I can really judge them on is the final product. 

DH has summarized Duane's work as "a bloodstained juggernaut, equal parts savage violence, gruesome horror, and black humor packed inside a flaming powder keg and rolled downhill into a crowd of terrified civilians".  Is that how you would you describe it!?
Hard to convince me of a silver lining when the product speaks for itself.

Hell, I keep the scripts Duane gives me and edit them to my own taste after we go over them, precisely because I'd rather read "my own version" along with the Japanese volumes, than what we have to submit to Dark Horse.

Thanks for that marvelous solution.  Can we talk about the DH releases now?

I guess ultimately my point is that in the world of business, compromises have to be made.  Not everyone agrees with all of them, but that's how money is made and the fact remains, however despicable, that BERSERK needs to make money if it's going to continue being published in English.  If you can prove to Dark Horse it would make more money being published differently, write letters to make that point.  But if you aren't buying -- or at least willing to buy -- them in the first place, all your complaints amounts to nothing.  And at the end of the day, if the English version of BERSERK isn't something you would buy, it's no worse than if there were no English version at all, and you had to stick with your Japanese volumes.

Great.  Turning that argument around, would making any of the changes people have been complaining about in this thread make DH _lose_ money?  I doubt it.  In fact I'd argue if they described their own series better on the covers they could even make MORE money.  Finally break out of that pre-pubescent demographic they seem to be targeting.
And would you get off that assumption I wouldn't buy them anyway?  I've explained numerous times thats not the case.  I wouldn't even bother posting in this thread if I weren't a potential customer.

The option of doing it yourself is always available, even if the right to sell your version isn't.

Is that your official stance on the subject (speaking as the consultant of a freelancer of the company, i mean  :guts:)?  Make your own version?
Gee why bother talking about this at all?  That fixes everything!

I'd ask you to reconsider that comment.   :schierke:

Well, I suppose you're right on that.  My calling the work incompetent was spoken out of anger.  I'm sorry. 

Perhaps a better way of saying it is that the result of all the effort you, Duane, and Chris speaks of a measure of incompetence or obliviousness somewhere along the process.  Is that better?
Cheers
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Auturgist on September 03, 2006, 02:25:30 AM
I realize you like your boss and are defensive in any discussion on how the overall quality of the translation.  Granted, there aren't that many mistakes.  My statement was meant as more of a "straw that broke the camel's back"-type argument with the fx boxes being the final reason to not buy.

Okay, cool.  I just wanted to be certain you didn't have any issue with the actual translations once Duane took over.

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Well firstly I will state that I was buying the volumes.  I recently stopped.  However thats not really the issue, is it?

Hey, if you were actually buying the volumes, you have every right to be upset if they started doing something you found distasteful.  And, I'd say you SHOULD stop buying them if they aren't providing you the level of quality you expect.  Stop buying them and write to Dark Horse telling them you stopped, because that will get their attention.

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And you're quick to understate your own handywork, eh?

Well, I also said that the DUNE reference was completely transparent, and it is.  So much so that Duane himself forgot about it.  So, pretend I never said anything about it, and tell me when you spot it if you are still reading the Dark Horse versions then.  Because it's not something that shouts "Hey look at me!  I'm a DUNE reference!" when you read it; in fact, I guarantee most people won't even pick up on it.

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Believe me, I'd want nothing more than for DH to handle the series to the best of its ability.  Its my opinion that its not.  I draw _no_ satisfaction from that.  To state otherwise is childish considering how long I've been a fan of the series.  I wish DH well for bringing berserk to the US, but that does not excuse them from covering up the artwork.

Well, again, I'm with you on the FX boxes.  I think it's silly and I personally wouldn't even bother with them, because I think you've gotta be pretty dense not to be able to imagine sound effects.  Hell, if I were Miura, I wouldn't even include them in the original art, but again... neither here nor there, and this particular issue is beyond my control.

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I'm sure there are very competent people working for DH, all I can really judge them on is the final product.

Fair enough.  I just want people to understand that the individuals involved are not always in league with each other on all matters.  I mean, I differ in personal opinion even with Duane sometimes.  I can say that the final Dark Horse product is not what I would prefer it to be 100%, but even if it were, it would just mean that someone else would have issues with it.

Quote
DH has summarized Duane's work as "a bloodstained juggernaut, equal parts savage violence, gruesome horror, and black humor packed inside a flaming powder keg and rolled downhill into a crowd of terrified civilians".  Is that how you would you describe it!?
Hard to convince me of a silver lining when the product speaks for itself.

That's marketing.  Neither Duane nor I wrote that, but I think we both know why it's there.  You know about BERSERK already, and you're going to describe it more accurately to your friends when they ask about manga.  A summary like that is meant to entice the lowest common denominator with a promise of bloody, action-packed storytelling, so that someone who isn't interested in the more intellectual elements of BERSERK will still pick it up and buy it without prompting from friends who know about the series already.

I know, being intelligent can be a real burden because you have to tolerate not only the stupid people, but the world of marketing that panders to them.  (I say that sarcastically, but it's the truth, and I do feel your pain.)

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Great.  Turning that argument around, would making any of the changes people have been complaining about in this thread make DH _lose_ money?  I doubt it.  In fact I'd argue if they described their own series better on the covers they could even make MORE money.  Finally break out of that pre-pubescent demographic they seem to be targeting.

Think about it like this:

The lowest common denominator NEEDS those kinds of summaries to be enticed to take an interest (and ultimately purchase) the series.

The more intelligent readers (you, me, most of the people posting here) are assumed to be smart enough to know why they are there, and ignore them because they have no bearing on the actual content inside the book.

Dark Horse needs money from both the lowest common denominator and the more intellectual readers if they are to make enough to continue publishing the series.

Since there are more of the lowest common denominator than intellectual readers, Dark Horse has to pander to them while hoping the intellectual readers can forgive the flagrant English logo and gratuitous summary on the back cover.

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And would you get off that assumption I wouldn't buy them anyway?  I've explained numerous times thats not the case.  I wouldn't even bother posting in this thread if I weren't a potential customer.

Ok, but there are people who love to bitch about this stuff and are perfectly willing to admit that they aren't buying the Dark Horse releases, completely shooting themselves in the foot in saying so.  I see you don't like being thrown into that generalization anymore than I like being categorized as someone who isn't competent or doesn't care about BERSERK.

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Is that your official stance on the subject (speaking as the consultant of a freelancer of the company, i mean  :guts:)?  Make your own version?
Gee why bother talking about this at all?  That fixes everything!

I'm just stating something you don't need anyone, representing Dark Horse or not, to tell you about the matter.  As it stands, I'm not an actual representative of Dark Horse, and I don't agree 100% with every decision made regarding the way BERSERK is being published in their versions.  But at the same time, I don't view the people involved as vile offenders of all that which is good and holy, because BERSERK is a comic, and the option of buying and reading the Japanese volumes has always been available to me.  I do care about the series immensely, and I do my best to make the English version as good as possible, within my limited influence, because I want other people to enjoy it.

But I also realize that with anything translated, people will never fully agree and there will always be minor disappointments.  The only perfect solution on an individual basis is to get the source and either read, watch, or translate it yourself.  This goes for manga, anime, novels, songs, whatever.  "You want it done right, do it yourself." is the only way to have a totally agreeable translation of anything.

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Well, I suppose you're right on that.  My calling the work incompetent was spoken out of anger.  I'm sorry. 

Perhaps a better way of saying it is that the result of all the effort you, Duane, and Chris speaks of a measure of incompetence or obliviousness somewhere along the process.  Is that better?

To avoid getting into a battle of semantics, I'll say that's a little better, and leave it to others to derive whatever implication is communicated in my hesitant acceptance of that phrasing.

Also, to some degree, I'm playing devil's advocate here because I feel like people are willing to blast someone or something completely for any perceived flaws or failings, but they don't have shit to say about the efforts involved in "good work".  And you can disagree with some of the decisions being made in the DH release of BERSERK, but that doesn't mean every bit of effort that goes into it is characterized with carelessness, incompetence, or obliviousness.

I hope you aren't taking my responses personally.   :serpico:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Señor Caudillo on September 03, 2006, 03:55:29 AM

That's marketing.  Neither Duane nor I wrote that, but I think we both know why it's there.  You know about BERSERK already, and you're going to describe it more accurately to your friends when they ask about manga.  A summary like that is meant to entice the lowest common denominator with a promise of bloody, action-packed storytelling, so that someone who isn't interested in the more intellectual elements of BERSERK will still pick it up and buy it without prompting from friends who know about the series already.

I know, being intelligent can be a real burden because you have to tolerate not only the stupid people, but the world of marketing that panders to them.  (I say that sarcastically, but it's the truth, and I do feel your pain.)

Think about it like this:

The lowest common denominator NEEDS those kinds of summaries to be enticed to take an interest (and ultimately purchase) the series.

The more intelligent readers (you, me, most of the people posting here) are assumed to be smart enough to know why they are there, and ignore them because they have no bearing on the actual content inside the book.

Dark Horse needs money from both the lowest common denominator and the more intellectual readers if they are to make enough to continue publishing the series.

Since there are more of the lowest common denominator than intellectual readers, Dark Horse has to pander to them while hoping the intellectual readers can forgive the flagrant English logo and gratuitous summary on the back cover.

Now you're confusing me, by saying that Dark Horse includes those childish title description on the back of the each American release, just so it can appeal to more mainstream audience (if that's what you mean by the "lowest common denominator"). But what makes you think that DH is gonna attract more buyers by doing so. On a little side note, I've been reading manga titles published by DH, for over 8 years. And throughout this whole time, Berserk is the very first title that they're treating like that. In my opinion, the English version of Berserk needs no such title descriptions. It's an adult manga, and not a children's genre. Hell, those Shonen Jump that Viz releases, not even they contain such dumb-ass, and apalling book descriptions on the back, like the English version of Berserk does. Want a proof?
Here's a liitle comparison between the book descriptions that appeared on the back of the fifth volume of the Dark Horse's release of Berserk, and the one that was on the back of the third volume of Beet  the Vandel Buster, published by Viz under the Shonen Jump label. Before I proceed, keep in mind that while Berserk is rated "18+", Beet the Vandel Buster is rated "All ages."

The title description taken from the back of the Berserk, vol 5:
"Created by Kentarou Miura, Berserk is maniacal manga to the max - relentless, harrowing, and gruesomely funny - and the inspiration for the popular anime series. If you're looking for graphic fiction tied up with a pretty, pink bow, you'd better run for the hills - because Berserk will show you what you can do with that bow!!"

Now, let's look at Beet the Vandel Buster:
"It's the century of Darkness and monsters, known as Vandels, rule the world. The only force that can fight them are the warriors known as Vandel Busters. Whena group of Busters are killed ina battle, they pass on their magic Saiga weapons to Beet, making him the strongest buster ever. He won't just fight the Vandels. Beet wants to destroy them and finally end the Century of Darkness."

As you can see, a manga that's being targeted towards children, actually has a much more intelligent and not mention coherent sounding title description, than Berserk, a title that's being targeted for the adult audience. That's definately not something that Dark Horse should be proud of.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Auturgist on September 03, 2006, 04:20:28 AM
The title description taken from the back of the Berserk, vol 5:
"Created by Kentarou Miura, Berserk is maniacal manga to the max - relentless, harrowing, and gruesomely funny - and the inspiration for the popular anime series. If you're looking for graphic fiction tied up with a pretty, pink bow, you'd better run for the hills - because Berserk will show you what you can do with that bow!!"

Now, let's look at Beet the Vandel Buster:
"It's the century of Darkness and monsters, known as Vandels, rule the world. The only force that can fight them are the warriors known as Vandel Busters. When a group of Busters are killed in a battle, they pass on their magic Saiga weapons to Beet, making him the strongest buster ever. He won't just fight the Vandels. Beet wants to destroy them and finally end the Century of Darkness."

As you can see, a manga that's being targeted towards children, actually has a much more intelligent and not mention coherent sounding title description, unlike Berserk, a title that's being targeted for the adult audience. That's definately not something that Dark Horse should be proud of.

Yeah, that particular BERSERK blurb is pretty fucking terrible, but I never said they weren't.  I just said that it's marketing, and marketing often seems stupid.  It's also on the back cover... not inside, not anyplace you have to read it.  You know, I have that volume and I'd never read that blurb simply because I don't pay any attention to the back covers -- they're just not important to me.

I guess my point is that, all said and done, I think something like that is a silly thing to be upset about.  It's like the "frothing demand" line on the U.S. release of IKARUGA for Nintendo Gamecube.  It's retarded, sure, but it doesn't affect the game at all... it's still one of the best shooters ever made.  I can hardly complain about it when I'm busy, you know, actually playing and enjoying the game.

Anyway, there are constructive criticisms and ranting over spilled milk.  That was on the back of volume 5, and the current release is volume 12.  Hopefully you wrote Chris Warner and told him how much you hate that blurb back when it was first published, but if not, what's the point of bitching about it now?  Especially in light of, say, the FX boxes, which are a much more current and legitimate matter about which to complain.

* By the way: "lowest common denominator" = less intelligent/discerning, more mainstream audience, with some emphasis on the "less intelligent/discerning" part.  Basically, the people who buy it because it's gratuitously violent and has lots of titties, completely unaware of how it touches on detailed philosophical ideas.

** Here's a link to explain my IKARUGA, "frothing demand" comment:
http://www.uti.com/~peterg/Ikaruga.jpg
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: CnC on September 03, 2006, 04:33:04 AM

Hey, if you were actually buying the volumes, you have every right to be upset if they started doing something you found distasteful.  And, I'd say you SHOULD stop buying them if they aren't providing you the level of quality you expect.  Stop buying them and write to Dark Horse telling them you stopped, because that will get their attention.
-
Ok, but there are people who love to bitch about this stuff and are perfectly willing to admit that they aren't buying the Dark Horse releases, completely shooting themselves in the foot in saying so.  I see you don't like being thrown into that generalization anymore than I like being categorized as someone who isn't competent or doesn't care about BERSERK.

My insistence in you dropping the qualification of whether or not I bought the DH releases was because its a pointless point to make.  My opinion (or anyone else's opinion) on what should or shouldn't be done in these printings is valid regardless of whether or not I bought them.  We don't have to support DH to criticize them.  So drop that point.

Well, I also said that the DUNE reference was completely transparent, and it is.  So much so that Duane himself forgot about it.  So, pretend I never said anything about it, and tell me when you spot it if you are still reading the Dark Horse versions then.  Because it's not something that shouts "Hey look at me!  I'm a DUNE reference!" when you read it; in fact, I guarantee most people won't even pick up on it.

If it was that transparent then you _shouldn't_ have said anything, praying nobody notices.  Enjoy having snuck one in much to the ignorance of the fans of the series.  However, knowing inclusion of it is unimaginative and unprofessional. 
My main issue with this situation was, however, your self-congratulatory nature in stating it.  When one fanboy says he liked it you in affect say, "Yea?  I did more!". 
People _always_ notice these things so its best to just not do it.


Hell, if I were Miura, I wouldn't even include them in the original art, but again... neither here nor there, and this particular issue is beyond my control.

A distinction has to made between the drivel that DH injected and the original sfx.  The originals were composed into the art, most of the time become a part of the art itself.  The boxes are an overlay, serving little purpose.

That's marketing.  Neither Duane nor I wrote that, but I think we both know why it's there.  You know about BERSERK already, and you're going to describe it more accurately to your friends when they ask about manga.  A summary like that is meant to entice the lowest common denominator with a promise of bloody, action-packed storytelling, so that someone who isn't interested in the more intellectual elements of BERSERK will still pick it up and buy it without prompting from friends who know about the series already.

I know, being intelligent can be a real burden because you have to tolerate not only the stupid people, but the world of marketing that panders to them.  (I say that sarcastically, but it's the truth, and I do feel your pain.)

Think about it like this:

The lowest common denominator NEEDS those kinds of summaries to be enticed to take an interest (and ultimately purchase) the series.

The more intelligent readers (you, me, most of the people posting here) are assumed to be smart enough to know why they are there, and ignore them because they have no bearing on the actual content inside the book.

Dark Horse needs money from both the lowest common denominator and the more intellectual readers if they are to make enough to continue publishing the series.

Since there are more of the lowest common denominator than intellectual readers, Dark Horse has to pander to them while hoping the intellectual readers can forgive the flagrant English logo and gratuitous summary on the back cover.

Thats bullshit, auturgist.  Appealing to the lowest common denominator?  Do you honestly believe that is appropriate or excusable?!
Perhaps all literary work should be given similar treatment:
      Coming at you like a machete through a bunch of innocent puppies, its "A Book of Poetry" by Maya Angelou!!  With gritty, unapologetic iambic pentameter that'll make your sister cry, Maya Angelou's "A Book of Poetry" delivers more estrogen than a room full of sex-crazed women ready to orgy!  Buckle your seatbelts cause this ride's going to be more explosive than a plane flying 600 mph into a tower!

Such filth can't be blamed solely on marketing.  If this is the bullshit they come up with then they obviously need to be replaced. 
Besides being juvenile its blatantly wrong in summarizing the series.  Moving on...

-the rest of your post you've said in some form before so I'll not respond to it in the interest of not running in circles-


I hope you aren't taking my responses personally.   :serpico:

I weigh your contributions thus far no less yet no higher than most of the people who are new to this series/message board.  It would have been nice to have an _actual translator_ here to argue your points with the standpoint of an actual DH employee.  But I suppose we'll have to wait.
So (short answer) no, I'm not taking your posts personally.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Auturgist on September 03, 2006, 05:05:13 AM
My insistence in you dropping the qualification of whether or not I bought the DH releases was because its a pointless point to make.  My opinion (or anyone else's opinion) on what should or shouldn't be done in these printings is valid regardless of whether or not I bought them.  We don't have to support DH to criticize them.  So drop that point.

I don't know that that's true, my personal opinion aside (my personal opinion being that you're right about it not mattering).  I'm trying to consider all angles here, and there is an argument to be made that if someone isn't buying a product, complaining about it is kinda silly and pointless.

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If it was that transparent then you _shouldn't_ have said anything, praying nobody notices.  Enjoy having snuck one in much to the ignorance of the fans of the series.  However, knowing inclusion of it is unimaginative and unprofessional. 
My main issue with this situation was, however, your self-congratulatory nature in stating it.  When one fanboy says he liked it you in affect say, "Yea?  I did more!". 
People _always_ notice these things so its best to just not do it.

Ok.  You might be right that I shouldn't have said anything about it.  In fact, you were PROBABLY right about that.  I'll give you that one, and I'll make sure not to say anything else so you have to work at finding anymore, should they be snuck in.   :serpico:

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A distinction has to made between the drivel that DH injected and the original sfx.  The originals were composed into the art, most of the time become a part of the art itself.  The boxes are an overlay, serving little purpose.

You'll get no argument from me.  I said, and will say again, I don't like the FX boxes.

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Thats bullshit, auturgist.  Appealing to the lowest common denominator?  Do you honestly believe that is appropriate or excusable?!

I don't know that asking if it's appropriate or excusable is the right thing to ask.  Appropriate?  Maybe if it does help to sell more volumes.  Excusable?  By me, since I hadn't really paid any attention to it in the first place.  I mean, it's not something I endorse personally, but it's also not the end of the world or even worth my time to bitch about because it's on the back cover, where I need never read it.  You know, I'd sooner question why we don't get neat dust jackets like the Japanese than bitch about a blurb I never read anyway, if we're gonna talk about cosmetics that are irrelevent to the actual content of the book.

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Perhaps all literary work should be given similar treatment:
      Coming at you like a machete through a bunch of innocent puppies, its "A Book of Poetry" by Maya Angelou!!  With gritty, unapologetic iambic pentameter that'll make your sister cry, Maya Angelou's "A Book of Poetry" delivers more estrogen than a room full of sex-crazed women ready to orgy!  Buckle your seatbelts cause this ride's going to be more explosive than a plane flying 600 mph into a tower!

Amusing, but ultimately a terrible attempt at arguing your point since BERSERK actually is (at times gratuitously) violent and gritty the way that blurb, shitty as it may be written, attempts to portray it.

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Such filth can't be blamed solely on marketing.  If this is the bullshit they come up with then they obviously need to be replaced. 
Besides being juvenile its blatantly wrong in summarizing the series.  Moving on...

Well, again, just to be clear, neither Duane nor myself write those blurbs.  And that's all I'll say about that now.

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I weigh your contributions thus far no less yet no higher than most of the people who are new to this series/message board.  It would have been nice to have an _actual translator_ here to argue your points with the standpoint of an actual DH employee.  But I suppose we'll have to wait.
So (short answer) no, I'm not taking your posts personally.

Well, even Duane wouldn't be "an actual DH employee", and he wouldn't want to get into all this anyway, because he knows exactly what I've said already: there's no way to please everyone, he's not personally responsible for most of the issues people have with the DH releases (and yet he'd be blasted for them anyway), and there's no way he could comment without risking a conflict of interests.  I'm only commenting because I'm hoping to convince people that things aren't as bad as they are trying to make them out to be in some ways, even if I do agree that some issues are worth complaining about.   :puck:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on September 03, 2006, 05:18:40 AM
Jesus, Auturgist... you're criticizing the fanbase on their purchasing habits?  Can I have your supervisor's number, I'd seriously like to file a complaint.  It's reasons like this you'll remain a completely indirect employee of Dark Horse...

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It's so easy for you to say that because you make little attempt to understand that individuals involved are not all part of the same corporate machine that you see trying to ruin your favorite manga series for a buck.  It's more complex, and many of the people involved are totally competent and care more than you realize or would ever admit

I guess ultimately my point is that in the world of business, compromises have to be made.  Not everyone agrees with all of them, but that's how money is made and the fact remains, however despicable, that BERSERK needs to make money if it's going to continue being published in English.
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...if we're gonna talk about cosmetics that are irrelevent to the actual content of the book.
Cosmetics? The statements are attempting to DESCRIBE THE SERIES.  It's a reflection of shit onto an awesome series.  Your response to CnC was pretty fucking weak.  I'd really like to see you defend your above statement in the face of shit like this:

"Vol.3
Created by Kentarou Miura, Berserk is exactly what its title advertises, a savage, gruesome, and often darkly funny roller- coaster ride, inspiring the internationally popular anime series. If you're looking for graphic fiction to take home to Grandma, this ain't it-unless Granny smokes cigars and rides a Harley!"

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It establishes that you are an idealist, but not that you know what you're talking about when you comment on those people.  I'd ask you to reconsider that comment.   :schierke:
Well ya know, you're kind of an idealist too. You waltz into our forum singing the praises of Dark Horse, knowing full well how critical and sensitive we are to the handling and translation of our favorite series and are suddenly appalled when people start disagreeing with you?

Ever since you first showed up here, I've thought your interaction with us here was dangerous, but I decided to give you a chance.  Do you realize how wildly irresponsible, not to mention unprofessional, it is for a Dark Horse "employee" to show up on a fan site like ours and start rocking the boat?  Do you understand the whole corporation/customer relations thing... at all?   I don't care how indirect you're employed by DH, you represent them whether you like it or not. And criticizing THE FANBASE is just about the stupidest mistake a company could ever make when it comes to public relations.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: CnC on September 03, 2006, 06:01:45 AM
All this quoting aside, I never accused Duane (or you for that matter) for the blurbs on the back cover.  But your defense of them is downright retarded.  They're meant to talk to stupid people?  "well... berserk _is_ violent"?? 
Are you high?  This crap shouldn't be on the back of the books.  "period."

And your contention that one must buy the books to be eligible to crit them is also none too intelligent... but I said that already, I guess.

You kind of bounce back and forth on whether or not we should take you seriously as a representative of DH.  You make decisions that affect the book one minute but then distance yourself from the results the next.  My earlier comment on how nice it would have been to have a translator from DH would apply to Duane too (even if he's just a freelancer) because I'm assuming he at least speaks japanese and can defend certain word choices.
However I understand him taking the smarter route and staying out of the fray.  Ignorance is bliss.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Auturgist on September 03, 2006, 06:25:11 AM
Cosmetics? The statements are attempting to DESCRIBE THE SERIES.  It's a reflection of shit onto an awesome series.

But the only people complaining about those descriptions are the people who already know that it's an awesome series, and those descriptions aren't aimed at those people.  And my point is that it's those people who are in the position to completely ignore the back cover of the book because they don't need to read anything telling them what the series is about.  Thus, the back cover becomes cosmetic to them.

If you accept that the back cover is going to be used to sell the book with a descriptive blurb, and you don't ever need to read that blurb because you're already sold on it, why should you care if it's crap?

That's a rhetorical question.  I know why people would care.  I'm just arguing that I think there are more important things to care about.

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Your response to CnC was pretty fucking weak.  I'd really like to see you defend your above statement in the face of shit like this:

"Vol.3
Created by Kentarou Miura, Berserk is exactly what its title advertises, a savage, gruesome, and often darkly funny roller- coaster ride, inspiring the internationally popular anime series. If you're looking for graphic fiction to take home to Grandma, this ain't it-unless Granny smokes cigars and rides a Harley!"

Well, BERSERK is savage at times.  It is gruesome.  And perhaps more "occasionally" than "often", it can be darkly funny.  It has highs and lows which would make it a metaphoric rollercoaster, and I wouldn't take it home to my Grandma (who does not smoke cigars or ride Harleys, coincidentally).

Listen, again, I'm not saying these blurbs are GOOD.  They are crap, obviously.  But they are crap I can easily ignore because I know why they exist, they aren't aimed at me, and they are on the back cover where I almost never have to look at them.

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Well ya know, you're kind of an idealist too. You waltz into our forum singing the praises of Dark Horse, knowing full well how critical and sensitive we are to the handling and translation of our favorite series and are suddenly appalled when people start disagreeing with you?

Fair enough.  I suppose I am a bit of an idealist.  But I don't recall singing the praises of Dark Horse.  I've said before that I don't personally agree with every decision made regarding the Dark Horse versions.  I just know that there are reasons for them, and don't think things are quite as bad as people would make them seem.

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Ever since you first showed up here, I've thought your interaction with us here was dangerous, but I decided to give you a chance....

I don't feel that I've criticized the fanbase.  I am part of the fanbase.  Nothing I've said has been a sweeping generalization of people here on SK.net and I have meant nothing I've said personally.

Anyway, I'll ask you two questions:

1)  Would anyone's opinions of the Dark Horse releases be any different had I not ever posted here?

I'm inclined to think they would not in most cases, and that people will generally respond the same way regardless of whether or not I ever post.  People who disapprove will continue to disapprove.  Maybe I can clear up something like that concern over Wyald talking like a "gangsta" on occasion, though, which is a good thing, right?

2)  Would you rather me not post?

If it upsets the SK.net community and you don't want me here, I can roll out.  I mean, I try to distinguish my personal opinions as such so that I can post as a fan sometimes, and as someone who has a little inside info that, on occasion, I feel inclined to share with people for the greater good other times.  I'm NOT trying to rock the boat, and if you don't want or appreciate my attempts to contribute to the forums either way, I can leave to prove it.

All this quoting aside, I never accused Duane (or you for that matter) for the blurbs on the back cover.

I recognize and appreciate that you haven't accused me or Duane for them.  And, to clarify, I'm not defending them so much as trying to offer a perspective that makes it easier to deal with them.  I think they are retarded, but I honestly can't say I'm bothered by them much because I pay them no mind.  It's not like they are FX boxes blocking art in the book.  They are on the back cover, where you never really have to read them.

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And your contention that one must buy the books to be eligible to crit them is also none too intelligent... but I said that already, I guess.

And I said too that there's an argument to be made about that.  PERSONALLY, I'm inclined to agree with you guys.  I'm just trying to present more than one way of looking at the issue.  I guess I should expect a debate when I present an opposing viewpoint, even if it's not something I personally endorse.  = /

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You kind of bounce back and forth on whether or not we should take you seriously as a representative of DH.  You make decisions that affect the book one minute but then distance yourself from the results the next.

You are right in calling me on this.  My only explanation is that I'm not the one making decisions regarding things like the blurbs on the back cover, or FX boxes.  So while I'm trying to defend singular elements (I am involved in, such as scripting), most are things I really have nothing to do with... and in those cases, I do try to distance myself from the results.  It's just difficult to say "I didn't do it!" without implying someone else did, and I'd rather try to calm the angry mob than redirect it towards someone else.  Maybe I'm just doing a bad job of it.   :judo:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on September 03, 2006, 01:53:14 PM
If you accept that the back cover is going to be used to sell the book with a descriptive blurb, and you don't ever need to read that blurb because you're already sold on it, why should you care if it's crap?
Because as I said earlier, it's a bad reflection on the series. An attack on the king's men is an attack on the king himself.  :miura:
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I don't feel that I've criticized the fanbase.  I am part of the fanbase.  Nothing I've said has been a sweeping generalization of people here on SK.net and I have meant nothing I've said personally.
In a nutshell, you said that some people here weren't buying enough volumes to be eligible to criticize them.  (ex. "Hi, I have an issue with Dark Horse." "Oh, well you only have vol. 1-3. Your opinion doesn't count!")

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1)  Would anyone's opinions of the Dark Horse releases be any different had I not ever posted here?

I'm inclined to think they would not in most cases...
Actually, my opinion of the translation process has weakened drastically since you appeared.  Now I know you subject yourself to scanlations which can SOMETIMES affect the final product.  Even that "sometimes" is too much for me.  That and the knowledge that you and Duane sit around talking about different ways to squeeze in a pop culture reference whenever translating a section is just too tough.

I'd prefer you to stay away from Dark Horse-related threads. Your involvement with Digital Manga should be reason enough.  You should check out how Chris Warner responded in this section.  That man had class, and knew how to approach a fan community with full knowledge of the sensitive nature of the information conveyed. 

Anyway, I'd say your involvement has mostly just been an annoyance to the DH thread, having this take up 3 full pages of 'grooviness'. But that's not what concerns me.  I'm primarily worried about how DH will be received in the future with any more tidbits you leak to us.  Even the SFX boxes issue aside, many members' opinions of DH have publically changed for the worst over the past 2 months.

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I'm just trying to present more than one way of looking at the issue.  I guess I should expect a debate when I present an opposing viewpoint, even if it's not something I personally endorse.  = /
Don't even try to take the high road. You crossed the line. I'm a big advocate for opposing viewpoints as well, just not when someone that represents the company handling Berserk criticizes our fanbase for not buying enough copies.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Auturgist on September 03, 2006, 09:06:32 PM
In a nutshell, you said that some people here weren't buying enough volumes to be eligible to criticize them.  (ex. "Hi, I have an issue with Dark Horse." "Oh, well you only have vol. 1-3. Your opinion doesn't count!")

I don't think that's a fair representation of my point.  I was just trying to point out that often, someone will rant and rant about a product without having any intention of supporting it in the first place.  And it's just like, jeez, if you aren't even invested in it, why make such a fuss over it?  For example: CnC has every right to be upset things if he was buying the books.  But often someone who has all the Japanese volumes and has no need or desire to buy the English versions will rant about things just to rant, and that doesn't help anyone.  It just makes things seem worse than they are.  = /

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Actually, my opinion of the translation process has weakened drastically since you appeared.  Now I know you subject yourself to scanlations which can SOMETIMES affect the final product.  Even that "sometimes" is too much for me.  That and the knowledge that you and Duane sit around talking about different ways to squeeze in a pop culture reference whenever translating a section is just too tough.

I'm sorry that you feel that way, because I thought I could help shed some light in a positive fashion on the translation process.  Also, again: Duane doesn't subject himself to scanslations.  And I think that last line is not fair to him as he does crazy amounts of research to be certain he fully understands whatever he's translating.  I mean that he's researched the Kushan Empire, Japanese sentai shows that Puck references, etc. and never once has resorted to squeezing in a pop culture reference in lieu of actual translation.  The two or three references we've ever made have always been, I thought, pretty subtle and something extra for fans of those things.  And honestly, I probably shouldn't have said anything about them, because most people wouldn't even have picked up on most of them.  I probably shot myself in the foot in saying anything.   :puck:

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I'd prefer you to stay away from Dark Horse-related threads....

Anyway, I'd say your involvement has mostly just been an annoyance...

I'm a big advocate for opposing viewpoints as well, just not when someone that represents the company handling Berserk criticizes our fanbase for not buying enough copies.

Well, again, I'll just say that criticism that way was not my intention.  Consider it my blunder, accept this as my apology, and I'll not touch the DH thread or anything concerning the DH releases anymore.  I made an error in judgement concerning how I could approach you guys about certain issues, and I'll gladly withdraw from the forums where these issues are discussed if it'll make things better for all involved.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: A.C on September 04, 2006, 11:30:45 PM
Auturgist, before you leave:

I believe you said Duane was doing the FX translations as well... if that's the case could you guys try and translate them properly and not just settle for transliterations?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Señor Caudillo on September 05, 2006, 12:31:13 AM
Auturgist, before you leave:

I believe you said Duane was doing the FX translations as well... if that's the case could you guys try and translate them properly and not just settle for transliterations?

That's the question that I've been meaning to ask too. Does Duane translate the sound-effects, or does he just romanize them? Because in volume 12, when I attempted to transliterate those things myself, using a dictionary, most of the SFX translations in the boxes turned out to be nothing more than romanized versions of the original Japanese SFX. For instance in vol 12, when that tornade-like vortex opens up, you can see this "GOGOGOGO" on the FX bubble, on repeated occasions. This is ridiculous, because even though I was one of the fans who requested DH to start translating the sound-effects in all their manga, I asked them precisely to translate them, not to romanize them.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: CnC on September 05, 2006, 01:16:13 AM
For example: CnC has every right to be upset things if he was buying the books.  But often someone who has all the Japanese volumes and has no need or desire to buy the English versions will rant about things just to rant, and that doesn't help anyone.  It just makes things seem worse than they are.  = /

CnC or anyone else also has the right to not own any of the DH releases but still "rant" about when someone's fuckin' up the series.  Thats their right to do so and it doesn't make their opinion any less valid.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Oburi on September 05, 2006, 01:54:28 AM
CnC or anyone else also has the right to not own any of the DH releases but still "rant" about when someone's fuckin' up the series.  Thats their right to do so and it doesn't make their opinion any less valid.

The reason one would "rant" about how DH is fucking up the series could just be the SAME reason one has for NOT buying the books they release.  How can someone argue with that.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: handsome rakshas on September 27, 2006, 05:40:27 PM
Ahoy, mates! Volume 13 is in my paws! Grabbed the last copy from "local comic store" but I have a meeting in 10 minutes so I'll post more impressions and questions later. From skimming through it, nothing has changed from last volume as far as presentation. In the last episode of the volume (entitled "Vow of Retaliation", I thought it was Retribution, it sounds cooler!) Guts calls Skullknight "Skull face" which I find horrible yet very entertaining.
Once again, I'll post more stuff once I get a chance to read the volume. Good day to all!
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: CnC on September 27, 2006, 06:39:18 PM
Guts calls Skullknight "Skull face" which I find horrible yet very entertaining.

Better than "Knight of Skeleton" as far as English comprehension goes...
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on September 27, 2006, 08:00:55 PM
Guts calls Skullknight "Skull face" which I find horrible yet very entertaining.

That's just Guts being rude, right, not an updated "translation" of Skullknight by DH?  Hopefully, my local Japanese bookstore will have the volume in stock, although I imagine that it'll be a few days before it does, as that's what happened when Vol. 12 was released.  Gotta remember to snag Vol. 31, which I know will be in stock, this Friday, too.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on September 27, 2006, 08:08:44 PM
(entitled "Vow of Retaliation", I thought it was Retribution, it sounds cooler!)

"Retribution" is the name of an arc (starts in volume 14), this is just the title of an episode. They're different. I think DH will translate it as "Conviction," which wouldn't be wrong.

That's just Guts being rude, right, not an updated "translation" of Skullknight by DH?

It's not a translation of "Skull Knight." It's still not correct in regard to what it refers to though.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Oburi on September 27, 2006, 08:53:42 PM
In the last episode of the volume (entitled "Vow of Retaliation", I thought it was Retribution, it sounds cooler!)

Retaliation? ugh. I like retribution but w/e, not that big a difference.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Griffith on September 28, 2006, 05:00:19 AM
Wow, I forgot about this whole mess. I wasn't qualified to talk about it anyway, because I don't own every crappy U.S. volume and am not a Dark Horse shareholder.

And not to beat a dark horse (see what I did there? :carcus:), but this guy never justified the examples of crap they apparently painstakingly snuck into the volumes, only deflecting with stuff like, "You'll like the product as a whole." Apparently not, since I already know what's being said, and I don't need to have it written in BAD English for embarassing posterity.

There's obviously an amount of artistic choice that goes with translating, especially with Japanese. But, you'd think that part of the craft is injecting as little of yourself as possible into somebody else's work, and going with the most accurate and conservative translation with regard to author's original piece. Obviously, while also taking into account literary basics such a setting, tone, and theme when choosing vocabulary. We all groovy on this?

[/soapbox]
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: handsome rakshas on September 28, 2006, 07:33:52 PM
Speaking of "beating a Dark Horse" (Sorry for stealing that Grif, royalty check is in the mail  :guts:) your ol' pal Rakshas has finally had his great realization after reading volume 13. NEVER have I been more distracted while reading a great manga in my life. As probably with many others, volume 13 holds a special place in my heart. Its one of those volumes where I feel "drawn in" to the pages. You know, when your eyes move seamlessly from panel to panel in anticipation of what is going happen next? When seeing characters reactions and seeing the atrocities before you and you almost feel like you are expieriencing the events first hand? That did not happen when I read this volume. And I know this is old news and I do not want to start another debate but those damned FX boxes have robbed me of this expierience, an expierience I had when I first fell in love with this very story. Those boxes are so distracting to the eye that I feel I have been denied the true expierience of volume 13. It was like having your high school sweetheart alone for the first time and having her little brother bust in her room every 10 seconds and scream things like "KA-CHINK" or "GAGINNNNG" just when you get her pants unbuttoned. Your buddy Rakshas has been very late to take an official stance on this matter but I can tell you this. As long as these FX boxes are ruining my favorite story and one of the things that I absolutley adore in my life, I will not buy another volume of Dark Horse's Berserk manga. Thats it. I apologize for this rant but this is an absolute atrocity and a mockery of this fantastic world Miura has created for me and everyone else.

Edit: Good day to all my fellow Skullknight brothers and sisters, I love you all!
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Proj2501 on September 28, 2006, 08:03:29 PM
Right before Femto does his hand crushing trick, there's an FX box I just love.   :casca:



*FX: LIFT



because I needed that one...i really did...please note my sarcasim
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on September 28, 2006, 08:13:15 PM
Right before Femto does his hand crushing trick, there's an FX box I just love.   :casca:



*FX: LIFT



because I needed that one...i really did...please note my sarcasim

But the sound of lifting is absolutely necessary to understanding the plot!!  Without those sounds, the story is meaningless and impossible to follow!  Thank God for DH, I would never have known he was lifting something if it weren't for them (and the ability to read katakana and understand the idea of something that doesn't have a sound actually having a sound...).

[/pissed-off sarcasm]

Or, as Dane Cook would say: The movie DUNE is in my manga!  I hate it when the movie DUNE is in my manga!! :puck:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Griffith on September 28, 2006, 08:28:10 PM
Hey, while bashing Dead Horse, don't forget Bayjumper and his grandmotherish letter writing campaign to get boxes with "GOGOGOGO" written in them all over the artwork. I guess it's a case of be careful what you wish for.

Especially if it's fuckin' stupid.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: TheSkyTraveller on September 28, 2006, 09:45:57 PM
Time for me to jump back onto the band wagon (again) and mention that I've got Volume 12 checked out from the library and my favorite "translated" sound effect is Carcus' sword breaking on the rock.  "BAKING!"  Ooh, I smell brownies...
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Some Guy on September 28, 2006, 09:57:35 PM
Just for posterity, what does the back cover say?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Proj2501 on September 28, 2006, 11:07:03 PM
O, I got one more I just noticed...last page of vol 13 when Skully and Guts are on Skully's horse.

FX* BYOWWWW

HAHAHA....BYOWWWW

Ok I'm done
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: CnC on September 28, 2006, 11:30:16 PM
FX* BYOWWWW

Ridiculously informative, as usual.  :schierke:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Proj2501 on September 29, 2006, 12:02:59 AM
U love it CnC

and if not....why u gotta hate?!
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Señor Caudillo on September 29, 2006, 02:36:05 AM
Just for posterity, what does the back cover say?

Quote from: Amazon.com
The Band of the Hawk may have been the most formidable band of fighters around, but when matched up against an army of abyssal monstrosities, earthly fighting skills don't amount to a hill of beans. The Hawks' tortured and mutilated former leader, Griffith, has used the accursed Crimson Beherit to open the gates to a shadowy realm of unspeakable horrors, the realm of the demon lords of the Godhand, who are willing to transform Griffith into a being of terrible power and majesty as long as Griffith is willing to give up his former command as sacrifices in the Invocation of Doom. But nobody takes down the Hawks without a fight, and their berserker champion, Guts, will take on anything Hell can throw at him in order to save his lover, Casca, from the sordid violations that only Hell can offer.

Compared to descriptions from the previous Dark Horse volumes, this one sounds a bit more intelligent, does it not?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: TheSkyTraveller on September 29, 2006, 04:32:55 AM
Compared to descriptions from the previous Dark Horse volumes, this one sounds a bit more intelligent, does it not?


No, I think he was referring to the paragraph about the "manga mosh pit" or whatever it was this time.  :schierke:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on September 29, 2006, 04:44:47 AM
No, I think he was referring to the paragraph about the "manga mosh pit" or whatever it was this time.  :schierke:

Yeah, the summary of what the actual volume contains is never all that bad, it's the series summary that causes most of us to want to stab ourselves in the face until it doesn't hurt anymore.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Funkmasta Zeph on September 29, 2006, 06:00:19 AM
Maybe something like..

"Naked chick on the cover! Omigod sexxors rock n roll dudes!"

I wonder how much the advertising guy gets paid.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: handsome rakshas on September 29, 2006, 06:45:07 PM
Just for posterity, what does the back cover say?

Sorry, this is usually my department but I was so disgusted I didn't have the energy.

Created by Kentaro Miura, Berserk is a hurtling manga avalanche, a pit-dark epic of relentless action, repellent horror, and remorseless humor that has hordes of initiates sharpening their blades while sending the timid into full retreat. The bell tolls for thee, wimp!  :schierke:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: CnC on September 29, 2006, 08:11:49 PM
I physically feel ill.

Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on September 29, 2006, 08:51:56 PM
Created by Kentarou Miura, Berserk is a hurtling manga avalanche, a pit-dark epic of relentless action, repellent horror, and remorseless humor that has hordes of initiates sharpening their blades while sending the timid into full retreat. The bell tolls for thee, wimp!  :schierke:

.....there are no words to describe how horrible this description is, but I'm sure DH could come up with something in about 5 minutes or less.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Funkmasta Zeph on September 30, 2006, 01:11:35 AM
That one was fairly moderate by thier terms.







Until the last sentence.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Bacongod on September 30, 2006, 08:44:03 AM
Just wanted to throw in my two cents.  In issue twelve, I did not find the sound effects translations to be that bad, a mild nuisance at best.  In issue thirteen, they annoyed the crap out of me.  Maybe you folks have been getting to me, but I am now on the "sound effects translations suck" side of this.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Funkmasta Zeph on October 01, 2006, 02:50:14 AM
Uh-oh....
If people who weren't bothered by 12 (like me), are bothered by 13.....
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Lithrael on October 01, 2006, 03:59:26 PM
Agh.  Griff's banner isn't even an exaggeration anymore.  Check this.

(http://www.lithrael.com/berserk/fx_ugly1.jpg)

(http://www.lithrael.com/berserk/fx_ugly2.jpg)

OH GOD DH DO IT AS AN APPENDIX INSTEAD PLEASE GOD.

It is nice to know the occasional actual useful ones, like 'silence,' but not right there in the middle of the flow of the art.  Hell, it would even be better if every single box didn't say "*FX:" argh WHY?  Subtitled movies would be awful too if every line started with "*TRX:" as though that was not already fucking taken as understood.  It takes you even further out of the experience.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: A.C on October 01, 2006, 04:29:41 PM
this is it people. i've now officially stopped buying the Dark Horse manga. those things are all over the artwork now and not a single one of them is informative. Dark Horse promised they wouldn't translate the FX when they announced Berserk and still they let a few mails written by people who thought they wanted translated FX get to them.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on October 01, 2006, 04:43:28 PM
OH GOD DH DO IT AS AN APPENDIX INSTEAD PLEASE GOD.

Hahaha, why am I always right? Shame to those who didn't think it would end up being like that. I still don't understand how anyone with an ounce of common sense in them would choose to go with that option instead of an appendix. But hey, that's alright because they're "unobtrusive" and in "dead areas of the art!"

:schierke:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Scorpio on October 01, 2006, 05:13:14 PM
"Sorry if it isn't to your liking, I just hope you'll try to get used to it."

God damnit.

[edit] also, cant forget this gem: "I'm striving to make them less obvious (guttered captions weren't supposed to be boxed, and that will change for issue 14), but you're going to have get used to them, because that's how we're going to handle them from here out.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on October 01, 2006, 05:22:10 PM
Agh.  Griff's banner isn't even an exaggeration anymore.  Check this.

Holy shit, that's terrible...  Dead areas of the art....riiiiiiight....fucking idiots. :schierke:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: CnC on October 01, 2006, 05:29:54 PM
Hahaha, why am I always right? Shame to those who didn't think it would end up being like that.

I wonder if anyone still thinks we were exaggerating?

But yea.  This is truly barbaric handling of the artwork, as expected. 
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: yota821 on October 01, 2006, 05:58:42 PM
I just want to stab my eyes out looking at that.   :isidro:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Grovel on October 01, 2006, 05:59:09 PM
OH GOD DH DO IT AS AN APPENDIX INSTEAD PLEASE GOD.
As a few others have commented, I was not really bothered by volume 12. This is something else though. Unbelievable. Thanks for putting up those scans Lithrael.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: TheSkyTraveller on October 01, 2006, 07:27:32 PM
Oh shit.  Now I feel special and not ashamed for not giving DH any money since volume 3.  They don't want to cover up the acutal sound effects because that would be damaging the art, but then they just cover up the drawings themselves instead.  Yeah...
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: SaiyajinNoOuji on October 01, 2006, 08:37:17 PM
Good job fuck faces at DH!

EDIT: I encourage the guys from DH to justify this afte we have seen it.

EDIT2: God damn it, why do I get the friggon key strokes messed up for "from" and "form"  :zodd:  I blame this on DH!
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: dwarfkicker on October 02, 2006, 01:16:07 AM
I couldn't care less about the sound effects being translated, but after seeing those scans for volume 13 all I can say is wow.  Just wow  :isidro:

Seriously, what the fuck goes through their minds when they decide that something like this is a good idea?

The reactions to this will most likely cause good 'ol Chris Warner to not show his face here.

And here I thought Knight of Skeleton was bad... :schierke:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Oburi on October 02, 2006, 01:37:10 AM
Yea that's horrible. On the plus side I'm now completely determined to just suck it up and buy all the Japanese volumes. Thanks DH for making up my mind with this atrocity...I spit on you.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Señor Caudillo on October 02, 2006, 04:56:35 AM
Dark Horse promised they wouldn't translate the FX when they announced Berserk and still they let a few mails written by people who thought they wanted translated FX get to them.

Actually, Dark Horse didn't promise a damn thing to fans. The only reason why they left the sound effects untranslated (at the time), was so that their books could be printed and released quicker. And probably save a bunch of money, while they were at it, too. Unfortunately, this was the sort of bullshit that was popularized by Tokyopop. Keep in mind, that their old "no translation of the FX" policy concerned numerous other manga series that they've licensed along with DMP (such as Hellsing and Trigun), not just Berserk.

It's interesting to note though, that even before DH started translating the sound effects, many board members here were hateful towards the company already. So even of DH had opted to use an appendix or maybe even continued to leave the sound effects un-translated in any way, shape, or form whatsoever, I don't think that the general (negative) opinion of the company would've changed for  the better. Sure, those SFX boxes might've caused everyone here (with me being an exception) to resent Dark Horse even more, but there are plenty of other issues for everyone here to fuss over, such as: translation/adaptation, the "colorful" descriptions of the series on the back, the English logo, and etc. So as far as I'm concerned, nothing has changed regarding the fan reception of the Dark Horse, really.

Besides, those sound effect translations are here to stay. And they're gonna be here for a looong time.Because, after three years of receiving  complaints (from me and the others) to start translating the sound effects, and then finally adopting a policy to do so, what makes you think that they're gonna undo it? Especially now?!
If you ain't gonna buy the Dark Horse releases, that's fine. But many others (including myself) will.       


Good job fuck faces at DH!

Jesus fucking Christ, is Berserk the only title that you've read from Dark Horse?! If you don't like the way DH handled Berserk, there must at least another title from them, that you do. It's not like Berserk the only series they publish, you know. There's also Blade of the Immortal, Lone Wolf and Cub, Crying Freeman, Hellsing, and numerous others. So why all the obscenity towards DH, like they're the cause of all the evil in the world?
And while we're at it, I remeber how couple of months ago I've made several scathing comments towards Viz Media regarding their censorship policies. And then all of a sudden Walter himself went all the way to defend Viz, by pointing out an "excellent" and "phenominal" job they've done with Vagabond. And then Aaz reminded me that I shouldn't be "name calling" the companies, and such. So I wonder, why hasn't he done the same here?  :schierke:
   
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Skeleton on October 02, 2006, 05:25:12 AM
Wow, those pictures are insane... In Vol. 12 I didn't mind the translated sound effects, heck some even helped me in determining the mood of the scene, but this is just plain ridiculous... Like everyone else, I'm seriously considering to just stop buying the DH books... Which is sad because A) I've never honestly considered doing that before with even the worst of products and B) DH seems to care more about their own fantastical delusions and the whims of a vocal (and idiotic) minority... Which is the equivalent of shooting everyone else, including the most die hard of fans, in the face.  *scurries off to learn Japanese*  :judo:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: SaiyajinNoOuji on October 02, 2006, 05:34:03 AM
Jesus fucking Christ, is Berserk the only title that you've read from Dark Horse?! If you don't like the way DH handled Berserk, there must at least another title from them, that you do. It's not like Berserk the only series they publish, you know. There's also Blade of the Immortal, Lone Wolf and Cub, Crying Freeman, Hellsing, and numerous others. So why all the obscenity towards DH, like they're the cause of all the evil in the world?
And while we're at it, I remeber how couple of months ago I've made several scathing comments towards Viz Media regarding their censorship policies. And then all of a sudden Walter himself went all the way to defend Viz, by pointing out an "excellent" and "phenominal" job they've done with Vagabond. And then Aaz reminded me that I shouldn't be "name calling" the companies, and such. So I wonder, why hasn't he done the same here?  :schierke:
   

Well friend now that you have you started to do this and you just mentioned that its not going away who's to say that your not going to do the same retarded shit with any other future releases. Also what the fuck did you expect to happen especially when "we" got a hold of this.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Scorpio on October 02, 2006, 06:23:32 AM
It's interesting to note though, that even before DH started translating the sound effects, many board members here were hateful towards the company already. So even of DH had opted to use an appendix or maybe even continued to leave the sound effects un-translated in any way, shape, or form whatsoever, I don't think that the general (negative) opinion of the company would've changed for  the better. Sure, those SFX boxes might've caused everyone here (with me being an exception) to resent Dark Horse even more, but there are plenty of other issues for everyone here to fuss over, such as: translation/adaptation, the "colorful" descriptions of the series on the back, the English logo, and etc. So as far as I'm concerned, nothing has changed regarding the fan reception of the Dark Horse, really.
Pointing out things a company can improve on does not equate hate. Generally speaking, I was intensely satisfied with Darkhorse's overall performance up until the sfx disaster.  I do despise the AWEFUL series descriptions on the back, which makes me question those in charge, but that is far from hating Darkhorse and being up in arms against them.  Of course, now that they have actually gone and killed my enjoyment of the series, I do in fact hate them with a burning passion that can only be quenched by a change in policy and reprints.

Quote
Besides, those sound effect translations are here to stay. And they're gonna be here for a looong time.Because, after three years of receiving  complaints
Apparently complaining can do a lot of good (or evil, in your case), and I have a feeling they will get plenty on the subject of these sfx after this latest volume.

Quote
(from me and the others)
What incredible lengths you go to in order to make yourself hated in this thread.
Quote
to start translating the sound effects, and then finally adopting a policy to do so, what makes you think that they're gonna undo it? Especially now?!
If popular demand got them to change in the first place, a drop in sales and counterdemand can change their minds again. They didnt change their policy until volume 12, what says they wont change again at volume 22?

Quote
If you ain't gonna buy the Dark Horse releases, that's fine. But many others (including myself) will.
I can only hope that people will figure out that these sfx boxes are utterly meaningless and kill an otherwise fantastic manga, and stop buying it (as I have done, and as many others on this board are doing). Then maybe we can go about changing Darkhorse's ridiculous policies.

Quote
Jesus fucking Christ, is Berserk the only title that you've read from Dark Horse?!
Yes.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Griffith on October 02, 2006, 07:18:59 AM
Agh.  Griff's banner isn't even an exaggeration anymore.  Check this.

Yeah, pretty sad state of affairs, I didn't intend that it end up prophetic. I mean, this went from being an issue of a pretty fickle fan base to Dark Horse just totally losing their minds. This is like cutting your own head off to get rid of a pimple. The sounds are 90% intuitive or self-explanitory, and so it comes down to properly displaying the artwork unchanged and unobstructed or superfluously translating and displaying sound effects at the work's expense; it's really no choice at all (unless you're an idiot). Now they've not only butchered the words, but the heart of the story, the images. This is especially sad considering a simple appendix would have reasonably satisfied everyone's needs, and worse yet, the translations of the sounds themselves are inconsistant and poor.

What a waste.

But hey, it's not so bad; all we have to do is swallow our pride and taste, if we have any to begin with, lay down, accept it, support a bad product from a second-rate company, act like complete tools, and take it up the ass from Dark Horse like Bayjumper and we'll all be as happy as him buying all the dark horse translated manga series (did I mention we're stupid tools in this scenario, and eunuchs?).

You may not like getting anally raped. But many others, like Bayjumper, will.

And that proves something. Seriously.


P.S. Next time you write Dark Horse a letter, ask them to translate the artwork into the English editions next time. Thanks.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on October 02, 2006, 08:13:21 AM
It's interesting to note though, that even before DH started translating the sound effects, many board members here were hateful towards the company already. So even of DH had opted to use an appendix or maybe even continued to leave the sound effects un-translated in any way, shape, or form whatsoever, I don't think that the general (negative) opinion of the company would've changed for  the better.

That's really just bullshit you're saying here. People weren't totally happy with DH's releases and rightly so, because as you said yourself it's not perfect. Hell, you yourself complained about some problems with these releases. That makes you "hateful" as well then, right? You're just trying to dismiss people's point by being defamatory here, you're really reaching the bottom. I doubt Chris Warner would have wasted his time posting on a "hateful" board. Anyway, did you actually read the other posts except yours? A lot of people that were buying the volumes are so distressed by this abomination that they're considering not buying them anymore on that factor alone. Meanwhile you're just babbling irrelevantly. Ask yourself what your posts achieve.

Sure, those SFX boxes might've caused everyone here (with me being an exception) to resent Dark Horse even more, but there are plenty of other issues for everyone here to fuss over, such as: translation/adaptation, the "colorful" descriptions of the series on the back, the English logo, and etc.

These issues were addressed already, and still are. It's not like nobody's talking about them. That's why people resented Dark Horse before; you know, what you were talking about earlier. You're really contradicting yourself here, in your blindness to defend the undefendable. And to anyone with half a brain, the order of priority is evidently 1) translation and art 2) logo and descriptions. So obviously, people will always be more concerned about ugly and useless boxes being on the art than the title logo, especially since the change for the SFX is recent. You're really not making any point here. You're just asking people to stop picking on your SFX. Anyway, why don't you send DH letters on these other issues? I mean it worked for the SFX supposedly, so it should for the rest as well.

Besides, those sound effect translations are here to stay. And they're gonna be here for a looong time.Because, after three years of receiving  complaints (from me and the others) to start translating the sound effects, and then finally adopting a policy to do so, what makes you think that they're gonna undo it? Especially now?! If you ain't gonna buy the Dark Horse releases, that's fine. But many others (including myself) will.

So what made you think they'd add SFX when you started sending mails, uh? I mean it took you 3 years, and you didn't have that reasoning, right? So why are you now? I think you're really dishonest here. And because they've just adopted that policy doesn't mean they can't drop it if everybody complains about it. You only represent yourself, you're not a group of people. You don't know what the general reaction is outside of this board, and in fact your opinion seems to be the minority by far here. So don't try to give lessons to people as you have no authority on anything. If you keep buying the DH releases because nothing bothers you as long as it's SFX related, that's fine. You just needed a single line to say so, like others did when they said the contrary (most of them indicating that they had changed their mind, not just repeating the same thing over and over like you do). And you have no idea what "many others" do or think.
 
Jesus fucking Christ, is Berserk the only title that you've read from Dark Horse?!

What does it matter? He's unhappy about DH's handling of Berserk. We're not on a Dark Horse board but on a Berserk one. The topic is Berserk. DH's other titles aren't a concern.

And then Aaz reminded me that I shouldn't be "name calling" the companies, and such. So I wonder, why hasn't he done the same here?  :schierke:

Well I haven't posted since these posts were made, so that's why I haven't commented on them. Not the sharpest knife in the drawer, eh? Besides it's not like you respected what I told you, now is it? What about the context then? Here people are surprised and speaking their hearts in a heated reaction, you were just insulting other companies and trying to turn it into an argumentation. Not exactly the same thing. Plus Viz does indeed a good job on Vagabond, you've admitted it yourself, so I'm not sure what your point is anyway. Walter gave you feedback regarding his experience with that company (while you were inappropriately trying to use the defaults of other titles edited by other companies to lessen the problems existing with DH's version of Berserk), and that's it. I don't see why you're talking about that here, it isn't pertinent and it's quite unfair to Walter to take these events out of context. (http://www.skullknight.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=6715.msg120926#msg120926)

In any case it's true, please guys, try to limit the name-calling. It doesn't achieve anything. Rather, send emails to DH, that will be far more effective. And if you're actually going to stop purchasing the manga because of these changes, well tell them so.

chrisw@darkhorse.com

You write a little note to Chris and you politely tell him you're unhappy and why. That's constructive feedback for them. No need to even ask for an answer, just make clear and concise points.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Señor Caudillo on October 02, 2006, 04:24:06 PM
I can only hope that people will figure out that these sfx boxes are utterly meaningless and kill an otherwise fantastic manga, and stop buying it (as I have done, and as many others on this board are doing). Then maybe we can go about changing Darkhorse's ridiculous policies.

But unfortunately, there's this problem:

Keep dreaming  :guts:  Volumes 12 and 13 will be bought heavily regardless of sound effects nonsense because of the critical events in them.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Griffith on October 02, 2006, 04:42:38 PM
Too bad the series doesn't stop at 13, because sales doesn't change the fact that the DH product sucks, and they're already losing (lost) real Berserk fans. As Wally puts it, the series is selling itself, DESPITE Dark Horse going out of their way to fuck it up as bad as possible. Lots of people buy Dark Horse, but lots of people molest children too; that doesn't make it right, Bayjumper.

They're probably the same people, anyway.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: A.C on October 02, 2006, 05:30:46 PM
BayJumper is evil.

i didn't need Dark Horse to enjoy Berserk in the first place. sure it'd be more comfortable to have all the volumes as english pockets but it's not like i can't live without it either.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: smoke on October 02, 2006, 06:00:14 PM
BayJumper, is there anything that DH could do to the manga that would actually piss you off?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Señor Caudillo on October 02, 2006, 06:08:07 PM
BayJumper, is there anything that DH could do to the manga that would actually piss you off?

Censorship, dialogue editing, and bad translations. That's about it, I guess.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Griffith on October 02, 2006, 06:24:53 PM
Censorship, dialogue editing, and bad translations. That's about it, I guess.

That basically sums up Dark Horse's Berserk.


P.S. Why do you keep changing your avatar back? Don't like SFX boxes covering the artwork? :carcus:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Señor Caudillo on October 02, 2006, 08:02:20 PM
That basically sums up Dark Horse's Berserk.


P.S. Why do you keep changing your avatar back? Don't like SFX boxes covering the artwork? :carcus:

What? Are you suggesting that Dark Horse's releases of Berserk is censored?

P.S. The reason I keep changing my avatar back, is because I'm not part of this so-called "protest" against the SFX translations.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: CnC on October 02, 2006, 08:09:14 PM
P.S. The reason I keep changing my avatar back, is because I'm not part of this so-called "protest" against the SFX translations.

Well you shouldn't even notice the change, right?  Why change it if it doesn't bother you?

It shouldn't break the narrative flow of your complete waste of bandwith a.k.a posts.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on October 02, 2006, 08:10:53 PM
Are you suggesting that Berserk is censored?

(http://aazealh.net/Divers/Volume13-censored.jpg)
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on October 02, 2006, 10:03:20 PM
I really don't know where I stand on continuing to purchase the manga...I want to support the series in the U.S., but it sucks when the people handling the series have absolutely no respect for it.  Trigun, another series by DH that I support, isn't treated this way at all, so why should Berserk be any different?  With the way the SFX boxes were used in Vol. 12, it was a little distracting, but I could live with it, if that was the way things would continue to look.  Pasting multiple boxes in the artwork is not using the "dead space" at all, it's obstructing the most important part of the manga.  Like others have already said (including myself), it's really not that difficult to imagine what sounds go with what actions (other than things like the light dimming, of course, but do you really need to know that in order to enjoy the series?).

Bayjumper, I just don't get you.  Is having the sound effects spelled out for you (and poorly, to boot) really more important than the artwork?  Because that sounds like exactly what you're saying by supporting the way Dark Horse uses the SFX "translation" boxes in Vol. 13.  I just can't imagine that a fan of this series can continue to support the use of the boxes when they literally shit all over the art like that.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: SaiyajinNoOuji on October 02, 2006, 10:10:20 PM
Bayjumper, I just don't get you.  Is having the sound effects spelled out for you (and poorly, to boot) really more important than the artwork?  Because that sounds like exactly what you're saying by supporting the way Dark Horse uses the SFX "translation" boxes in Vol. 13.  I just can't imagine that a fan of this series can continue to support the use of the boxes when they literally shit all over the art like that.
To answer your question, please refer to my reply in the Episode 280 thread.  :serpico:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Grail on October 02, 2006, 11:08:00 PM
:judo:

This whole affair makes me feel sad. I bought Volume 12 like a lot of other folks did, and tried to ignore most of the SFX boxes, but this is just getting silly. I'm gonna have to boycott DH volumes from here on out until I can see the art as it was intended. :<
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Proj2501 on October 03, 2006, 01:08:03 AM
I think we all need to let sleeping dogs lie and give GayHumper a hug.


                                                                                    Oops...



Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on October 03, 2006, 02:21:19 AM
This is a morbidly obese step in the wrong direction for Dark Horse. I'm honestly suprised they managed to do worse on their sophomore attempt at "*FX" boxes. I figured this time they'd be more conservative and less obtrusive with the box placement. I had hoped I could be proven wrong, and that the boxes COULD be implemented in a covert manner. Boy, was I wrong.

Even in spite of my dissatisfaction with their handling of sound effects, I wasn't going to stop buying the volumes. That was before I saw the vol 13 sample Lith posted. I'll be writing Chris Warner with my opinion on the matter, and I hope I'm not alone. Viva la Resistance!
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: SaiyajinNoOuji on October 03, 2006, 02:24:15 AM
Alright, this is a serious question... if Berserk is their latest piece that they have aquired to translate... why dont they follow the same way they have translated otehr releases? if you are making a standard, why not go off of your previous works? Why do this to Berserk now?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: CnC on October 03, 2006, 02:37:17 AM
Alright, this is a serious question... if Berserk is their latest piece that they have aquired to translate... why dont they follow the same way they have translated otehr releases? if you are making a standard, why not go off of your previous works? Why do this to Berserk now?

I'd advise you and any else with questions/complaints as to how this series is being handled to e-mail Chris over at DH   (chrisw@darkhorse.com)  .

Keep the e-mail civil and don't spam his message box.  I wouldn't want anyone to think that they were somehow justified in picking their target demographic when they put those childish summaries on the back of the covers.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: SaiyajinNoOuji on October 03, 2006, 02:55:42 AM
I'd advise you and any else with questions/complaints as to how this series is being handled to e-mail Chris over at DH   (chrisw@darkhorse.com)  .

Keep the e-mail civil and don't spam his message box.  I wouldn't want anyone to think that they were somehow justified in picking their target demographic when they put those childish summaries on the back of the covers.
Done and done..

Also as an added bonus to this topic my previous statement from 280 about BayJumper has finally bore the fruit I was laboring for.

*ahem*
Via PM...

I do not know why you've had to make such an inflammatory response to my post, but I don't think that something like that was necessary. That only makes you look bad, if anything.

P.S: Hope you die slow.
 
END

Well fuck face, maybe the fact that you are acting like a complete asscock has something to do with it, also maybe if you would have read my first fucking post of the god damn thread, you would have realized that it was meant to get the thread ready for the unknown release of Berserk.

Also for your comment of dying slowly, that was pretty weak, i was hoping for something a little bit more exciting, so in conclusion, perhaps it would be best for you to go back.... Thank you.

EDIT: Also no matter what I do what YOU have done will always make me look and everyone else on this board better. So suck it.
EDIT2: So I decided to cut back, I want this post to stay to show the world how much of a douche you are, so i will cut the last bit that I had written, but I still mean it. <3  :carcus:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on October 03, 2006, 04:06:13 AM
Even in spite of my dissatisfaction with their handling of sound effects, I wasn't going to stop buying the volumes. That was before I saw the vol 13 sample Lith posted. I'll be writing Chris Warner with my opinion on the matter, and I hope I'm not alone. Viva la Resistance!

Yup, that's the route I'm going.  I'm going to write Chris later this week, and it will be a civil message at that.  I'll be sure to post my message, once I've sent it, and (hopefully) the reply from Chris when/if it arrives.  Now it's off to bed where, in my dreams, the DH releases are impeccable...
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: smoke on October 03, 2006, 04:13:59 AM
Well, it seems like we'll have to write for about three years.

RIGHT BAYJUMPAAH!?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Griffith on October 03, 2006, 04:58:38 AM
What? Are you suggesting that Dark Horse's releases of Berserk is censored?

What do you call large boxes covering the artwork? Different reason, same result (if not worse, people actually usually take more care with professional censorship than this). So, if you were able or willing to think in the abstract, or just reasonably, you should be just as upset as any of us according to your supposed standards above. But, since you're being an egregious simpleton, and they aren't intentionally covering those crucial T&A shots, as long as they're called "FX Boxes" and not "Censorship Boxes", you won't know any different. Congratulations, you're evidently a stupid tool.

Anyway, I'm totally looking forward to you furrowing your cro-magnum brow, rolling your beady eyes, and completly failing to understand this concept.

P.S. The reason I keep changing my avatar back, is because I'm not part of this so-called "protest" against the SFX translations.

What protest? There's nothing wrong with it, it's simply peppering the illustration with more indepth information! I'd think you of all people would have to appreciate that given your position on the issue. Then again, admittedly, I knew you of all idiots would fail to, and thanks for proving my point, by the way.


P.S. Hey Saiya, it's funny he replied to you that way, because he won't even respond to me or Aaz via PM (and even on the board half the time). Looks like he doesn't have the stones to get nasty with us. Also, notice after Aaz and I logically tear apart his ramblings in this thread, he doesn't respond or defend himself, but instead takes it out immediatly on your 280 thread. =)

I always know the dog is mad at me when she pees on the carpet.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: SaiyajinNoOuji on October 03, 2006, 05:26:41 AM
P.S. Hey Saiya, it's funny he replied to you that way, because he won't even respond to me or Aaz via PM (and even on the board half the time). Looks like he doesn't have the stones to get nasty with us. Also, notice after Aaz and I logically tear apart his ramblings in this thread, he doesn't respond or defend himself, but instead takes it out immediatly on your 280 thread. =)

I always know the dog is mad at me when she pees on the carpet.
Yes my good friend Mr. Griffith, that would be in what we like to call in the internet world, WTFPWNED. NOW GTFO!
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Jaze1618 on October 03, 2006, 06:03:54 AM
Griffith no more, While I am more of a lurker than anything else. I have certainly been around these boards over the past few years and I have never seen you be so clever and witty. It's very good.

On topic. I will still buy volume's 13 and up but I really wish they would at least cover up the japanese sfx rather than take up the whole picture.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on October 03, 2006, 07:26:59 AM
Griffith no more, While I am more of a lurker than anything else. I have certainly been around these boards over tha past few years and I have never seen you be so clever and witty. It's very good.

Haha, this is nothing compared to his good days really, you should read more of his posts. :serpico:

Anyway, I'd like that thread to retain some dignity, so I'm asking in advance to please keep personal disputes between members private. And BayJumper, everybody knows that you have trouble accepting the general consensus on this matter now, you've made it clear enough. I think we're all getting tired of hearing it. Being passive aggressive and starting petty quarrels isn't going to change people's opinion, nor will badmouthing the community itself. We're not having a debate here, it's just people giving feedback about what they like or not in DH's edition of Berserk. If you feel obligated to restate your allegiance to DH without actually commenting on the new developments in the future, be concise and straightforward, like Jaze1618 for example. If you do that you can be sure nobody will mind, otherwise you'll always get opposing reactions from other members and it'll never end. I've repeated this to you enough times, so now I'm expecting you to do it. You've been here for a while, it's time for you to ask yourself if you want to be part of this community or if you're just trying to antagonize everybody.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on October 05, 2006, 12:58:47 AM
Just finished writing to Chris at Dark Horse, so I figured I'd show you all what I sent him.

Hi Chris,

After seeing a couple of panels taken from the Dark Horse edition of Berserk Vol. 13, I have decided to discontinue purchasing this manga as long as the sound effects boxes continue to be pasted over the artwork.  I was against having the sound effects translated once I had read Vol. 12, mainly due to the inconsistency in which their translations were being handled (sometimes the sound effects would be a literal translation of the Japanese katakana, and at other times they would be converted to a more American-ized sound effect) and the fact that some of the boxes were on the actual artwork, instead of in the gutters between panels.  The fact that the translation boxes were put over the artwork bothered me, but I felt I could live with it and continue buying the series, so long as the boxes didn't cover the more significant (if any part of the artwork can be called more significant than another by anyone but Miura himself) areas of the panels.  This all changed once I saw Vol. 13's panels, some of which were covered by 3-4 translation boxes.  The boxes weren't just in the corner or over an open area of the artwork, either, but were pasted over the characters and objects that were being highlighted in the panel.

Even if fans have been writing in, complaining about not being able to read the Japanese sound effects, I don't understand how Dark Horse could have felt that translating SFX were more important than keeping the artwork clean and unaltered, especially with a series like Berserk, where the author puts so much time and effort into the art (even taking month-long breaks between individual episodes in order to put even more detail into it).  An easy solution to this problem would be to have an index at the back of the book with a list of translations (by page number) for the sound-effects.  This is no more disrupting than having 3 or 4 boxes pasted over the artwork, interrupting the flow of reading.  When this series was first going to be released, I was very pleased to hear that it would be left uncensored, with the Japanese sound-effects left in, un-translated.  This meant to me that the artwork would be preserved and fans in America would be able to see Berserk as Kentarou Miura intended it to be seen.  The other series released by Dark Horse that I collect (Trigun and Hellsing) are not being handled this way, so why does an equally great, if not better, series have to suffer this kind of mistreatment?  To me, this shows a lack of respect on the part of Dark Horse for one of their products.  This is extremely disappointing to me, as before this I have had almost no problem with the way Dark Horse has handled their manga releases.  If this problem is addressed and the artwork is restored to the way it was intended to be seen by fans, then I will continue to purchase this series.  Until then, however, I will not be buying any volumes of Berserk that are released with SFX translation boxes pasted all over the artwork.


I'll post his reply if/when I get it, so until then...
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: SaiyajinNoOuji on October 05, 2006, 01:09:40 AM
I doubt I will get a reply back, mine was also civil.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on October 05, 2006, 01:18:57 AM
I doubt I will get a reply back, mine was also civil.

Yeah, I'm hoping they'll at least say something, as long as it's not one of those, "Dark Horse appreciates the opinions of all their fans and will take your thoughts into consideration..." bits that they send to everyone who writes in.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Oburi on October 05, 2006, 01:45:24 PM
Just a quick question; Are the Japanese editions the same sine as the DH releases.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on October 05, 2006, 02:31:46 PM
Just a quick question; Are the Japanese editions the same sine as the DH releases.

The same sine? You mean size? If so, yes they are.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: TheSkyTraveller on October 05, 2006, 04:44:16 PM
Nicely written letter, Rhombaad.  Hope people writing get some kind of useful response.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Oburi on October 05, 2006, 10:10:32 PM
Quote
The same sine? You mean size? If so, yes they are.
Yea sorry Aaz I meant size, it was early I just woke up (erm 11:00 in the morning) But thanks for the answer.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Some Guy on October 06, 2006, 10:26:45 AM
Yeesh, this really is overkill.  This edition makes the eclipse an even more hellish ordeal than it already was :miura:

I agree that the translated sound effects are nowhere near important enough to cover so much of the artwork.

Bad, Dark Horse, Bad!
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: BiQ-- on October 06, 2006, 07:53:20 PM
Jesus freaking god. (I'm an atheist, BTW)

What the hell is DH thinking? Now I am really thinking of stopping to purchase these volumes, as I am already buying them in Japanese too. Actually, since I live in Finland where all DH titles seem to come very late, I still haven't got around to get even DH's vol 12. From what I had heard, these sfx boxes weren't so catastrophic at vol 12, but now... I really am thinking of dropping this shit and sticking to collecting this in Japanese until they get it right.

BTW, today I ordered the Japanese volumes 31 and 12-14. As I already own DH volumes 1-11 and jp tankoubons 1-3 and 15-30, this means that soon I will have at least one version of each volume of Berserk! Whoopee! :) At some point in future I am surely getting all the Japanese volumes... whether or not I get these DH monstrosities (vols 12, 13, onward?) remains to be seen.

This is really shitty. You know, until these sfx boxes came, (and especially until seeing the panels posted by Lithrael) I actually was quite content with DH's work. I actually found even Wyald's dialog acceptable (after getting used to it). But this... No. Not this. No fucking way.

... but the truth is still that I don't know Japanese and I would like to read this masterpiece from paper and with translated speech. :/ What am I to do now?

Sorry for language mistakes. I am a bit drunk at this moment...
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Anna on October 08, 2006, 10:39:08 PM
Sorry, this is usually my department but I was so disgusted I didn't have the energy.

"Created by Kentarou Miura, Berserk is a hurtling manga avalanche, a pit-dark epic of relentless action, repellent horror, and remorseless humor that has hordes of initiates sharpening their blades while sending the timid into full retreat. The bell tolls for thee, wimp!"  :schierke:

What's more, that vomit-inducing last line isn't even an original piece of crap; it's actually a rehash of the last line of volume 11's blurb:

 "Created by Kentarou Miura, Berserk is a roaring manga dragster, a grand epic of red-line action, white-knuckle horror, and black-hearted humor that has spawned a fervent legion of acolytes driving a host of horrified nonbelievers in their wake. The bell tolls for thee, puny mortal!"

My. God. I can't decide which is worse.... I suppose it's a bit like comparing dog poo with cat poo: in the end, it's all just poo.

Going back to what one of the DH representatives was saying on here a while back, about the pieces of sh*t blurbs that defile the DH releases of Berserk, and how they are pulled out of someone's ass written with the "lowest common denominator" in mind.... Well, I was thinking about all of the thinking, intelligent people - like myself :carcus: - who might potentially be interested in reading Berserk.... What is being done to attract them to the series...? What of the people who might not be interested in the "mindless action" that Berserk contains, but who might enjoy the series for its philosophy, rich characterization, and psychological depth…? Why are these important elements of the series not touched on in the official descriptions?! I mean, isn't the function of a blurb to accurately describe the contents of the product on which it is printed (and to sell said product...of course)? Oftentimes, I cannot even recognize the series that is described on the back covers.... And that's sad.

For example, the blurb on the back cover of volume 8 reads:

 "Created by Kentarou Miura, Berserk is medieval manga mania at its bloodstained best, a volatile concoction of raging action, abyssal horror, and graveyard humor that has the initiates lining up for more and the fainthearted heading for the hills. Thank you, sir, may I have another!"

...Not exactly an accurate description of the contents of volume 8, to say the least! Now, say I fitted into the so-called "lowest common denominator" of humanity, and had picked up volume 8 of Berserk just for the "raging action" that's advertised...I imagine I would be sorely disappointed upon opening my copy!! There's about 20 pages of "action" in vol. 8 - none of which I would call "raging". It's blatantly misleading!! In fact, I've seen some hardcore action-nuts (who seem to be the people that DH is primarily targeting) complaining that Berserk contains too much "emo stuff"! :schierke: *sigh*

I know it probably (and sadly) does little good to rant...but I hate having to stop my Mum (yes - she likes Berserk :serpico:) from looking at the back covers when I show her my manga, out of embarrassment - and it makes me fume when I think of all the potential Berserk fans who have been, and will be, turned away from the series, by DH's astronomical incompetence. ARGGHHH!!! >:(

Regarding the boxes of DOOM! SFX boxes: I'm in agreement with everyone else here (excepting BayJumper); they're a disaster. I mean, I assume that most readers of Berserk (who do not know Japanese) have an intuitive understanding of what the SFX mean. For the most part, their meanings are apparent; one should be able to link the SFX to the correlative action, and then imagine the appropriate sound - it's not rocket science. There are only a few instances where this is not possible, i.e., when the sound is "off-screen". Perhaps DH should limit their translations of the SFX to such instances, and make them a) NOT boxed, b) NOT on the artwork, and c) NOT transliterations - but actual comprehensible translations.

I'm done.[/size]
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: SMZKAH on October 09, 2006, 06:00:32 PM
Well, I gave DH the benefit of the doubt after volume 12, I decided to try out the next one to see if the sound effect boxes would be fixed or become less of a problem.  But, from the look of things, those damn boxes are there to stay.  So, I've pretty much decided that I'm done with the English releases.  I thought we had a great thing goin here Dark Horse, but those little boxes ruined everything.  They're just unnatural and they clearly do not fit anywhere on the page.  Granted I'm only one person, but hey it's pissed me off that much.  They won't be getting my $13 every 2 months anymore.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: The Perineum Falcon on October 09, 2006, 06:14:11 PM
everytime this thread is updated I'm hoping it's a reply from Chris Warner.
Hélas! it's nothing so useful and intriguing. just the same message, different people, over and over again. :judo:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: A.C on October 10, 2006, 10:21:08 AM
Yeah, I'm hoping they'll at least say something, as long as it's not one of those, "Dark Horse appreciates the opinions of all their fans and will take your thoughts into consideration..." bits that they send to everyone who writes in.

i did get a reply right away back when i sent my email. maybe it was because i sent it the right time of the day (early morning). anyway, if nobody got a reply back after okt 2nd i'd take that as a good sign that maybe Chris is thinking the whole thing over.

oh, and my email was pretty short so i didn't get a long reply but it was pretty much the same answer that Scorpio got. he said there is no consensus in the matter and brought up the inconvinience of an appendix even though i never asked for one (i don't care about the FX period.) i can't believe there are that many people asking for translated FX.. or maybe the anti-FX people have been too lazy to email him.

Chris did say that they try to respond to what the readers want though so let them know what you want ;)
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Darth on October 10, 2006, 03:21:46 PM
Wow this thread has gone off topic lol.

Well anyway first off i would like to address a past post from Aazealh

http://aazealh.net/Divers/Volume13-censored.jpg

LMAO! dude i actually was just reading all along and seen that and had a good laugh. it wasn't as funny as the berserk porn contest pictures, especially this one

http://madballxero.homestead.com/files/ultimaten00die.jpg

but it made me laugh...

OK anyway back to Dark Horse Releases.

Issue 14 is still set to drop on 11/29/06
Issue 15 is set to drop on 1/24/07
Issue 16 is set to drop on 3/28/07

enjoy :guts:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Señor Caudillo on October 10, 2006, 08:55:45 PM
Issue 15 is set to drop on 1/24/07

According to the official DH website, this is gonna be the "manga mosh-pit" for the upcoming release of the volume 15:

Quote from: The back of DH release of Berserk, vol 15
Created by Kentarou Miura, Berserk is a streaking manga fireball, an epic riot of galvanic action, grotesque horror, and grim humor with an army of fanatic loyalists ready to convert unbelievers or drive them screaming into the wilderness. Speak, hands, for me!

Hope you like it. Enjoy :guts:

Here's the link, of course
http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/profile.php?sku=13-847
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on October 11, 2006, 03:24:14 AM
Quote from: Retarded Berserk summary guy
Speak, hands, for me!

What does that even mean?

Hope you like it. Enjoy :guts:

...I sincerely hope you're kidding. :griff:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: SaiyajinNoOuji on October 11, 2006, 04:21:53 AM
Quote
Created by Kentaro Miura, Berserk is a streaking manga fireball, an epic riot of galvanic action, grotesque horror, and grim humor with an army of fanatic loyalists ready to convert unbelievers or drive them screaming into the wilderness. Speak, hands, for me!

lawl
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: CnC on October 11, 2006, 04:27:20 AM
Quote
Speak, hands, for me!

FX:  Hands!

Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on October 11, 2006, 06:03:59 AM
Quote from: Dark Horse Fucking Jackass
Speak, hands, for me!

What does that even mean?
They've outdone themselves on obscurely unfunny references.

It's a line from the character Casca in Shakespeare's play Julius Caesar. The only people that would get that are those like me who searched the phrase on Google. Not amused.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Señor Caudillo on October 11, 2006, 11:31:55 PM
...I sincerely hope you're kidding. :griff:

Certainly not.

They've outdone themselves on obscurely unfunny references.

Sorry, but I think that Dark Horse still has plenty of material left for shit like that. So we'll all have to just bear with it. Just like with the FX boxes, everybody's gonna have to get used to the "manga mosh pits", if they haven't done so already.

Not amused.

But why? Dark Horse had spent well over two months coming up with such witty and charming catchphrase. Considering the fact that they're going all the way to actually quote a play by  William Shakespeare, we all ought to consider this an honor.         
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: SaiyajinNoOuji on October 11, 2006, 11:37:21 PM
But why? Dark Horse had spent well over two months coming up with such witty and charming catchphrase. Considering the fact that they're going all the way to actually quote a play by  William Shakespeare, we all ought to consider this an honor.
Actually no we shouldn't. I think they are doing a fine job of discouraging the "Official" English volumes of the series to its more serious fans such as ourselves here. Keep up the good work!  :casca:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Oburi on October 12, 2006, 12:23:08 AM
Quote
But why? Dark Horse had spent well over two months coming up with such witty and charming catchphrase. Considering the fact that they're going all the way to actually quote a play by  William Shakespeare, we all ought to consider this an honor.

Sometimes I can't believe the shit that you type. Do you honestly feel honored that DH put a completely irrelevant blurb from Shakespear just because two characters shared a name. Would you feel honored if they put in lines from the Pippin in Lord of The Rings.

Berserks bloody barrage of carnage will have ravenous fans craving for more. "What about second breakfest!"?!  :isidro:
(Don't bother telling me that Shakespear is better than Tolkien)

And do you really think DH spent two hard working months writing that. Like Walter said, Google the name Casca and and you can find two unrelated works of literature with characters of the same name. Not hard, and it doesn't make sense.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: SaiyajinNoOuji on October 12, 2006, 12:39:49 AM
I'm pretty sure numb nuts is trying to goad us because he can't handle that the fact that we handed him his own ass and pretty much made an ass out of him, granted we didn't really need to help him on that since he was/is doing a find job. Regardless I'm sure he let his little butt buddy know about our kind words to him and thus is probably their way of retaliating against us.

At least thats what I would do if I was in his shitty situation.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: handsome rakshas on October 12, 2006, 12:49:35 AM
But why? Dark Horse had spent well over two months coming up with such witty and charming catchphrase.

"Created by Kentarou Miura, Berserk is a brilliant manga masterpiece that has been chopped, screwed, and raped by the Dark Horse and turned into a festering manga genital wart that relentlessly attacks your senses with boxes that cover the artwork! Dark Horse's "Berzerk" is the kind of ball-busting manga that will fuck you in the ass and not even give the common courtesy of a reach around! The goggles do nothing!"

That one took two minutes! You think DH will hire me?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on October 12, 2006, 01:01:22 AM
Guys, I think it's pretty obvious our friend BayJumper is just trolling at this point. Replying to his provocation is useless, he's just trying to shit up the thread. Honestly I'd think he was just being sarcastic if I didn't know him already.

So yeah, I guess I'm just going to delete such posts from now on, that'll save everybody the trouble.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Tirade on October 12, 2006, 02:49:45 AM
Wow, after having been out of the DH loop for a while, I see I missed quite the debate.  Still, I will offer my thoughts on this SFX translation. 

First off, I had no problems with the first 11 volumes lacking SFX translations.  I enjoyed the smooth artwork and felt the SFX were just part of it.  I have yet to purchase volumes 12 or 13 from DH (and based on what I've seen, I have serious reservations).  This SFX box garbage is a joke.  As a reader, those boxes only succeed in distracting one.  Complete waste IMHO.  If the whiny, "I want SFX translated" group desperately wants translations, why the hell didn't DH just make an appendix for them as mentioned by others here?  I'm going to read through the story first, then afterwards, look back at the appendix if I have any questions about meaning.  Again, those ridiculous SFX boxes are a joke that ruin the majesty of the artwork.   

In regards to the back cover, I may not have liked the "summary," but I certainly am not going to look at it all that often.  In my mind, it's just a bunch of garble that happens to be on the back.  Sure, I may not have found DH to be perfect for Volumes 1 - 11, but I could live with this goofy back summary.

All I can say is that DH has lost my business for the time being.  If they ever want my money again (Berserk or anything else), they better go about fixing this SFX crap.  After ruining one of the best volumes (vol 13), I shudder to think how they are going to handle future releases. 

For the love of God DH, enough with these friggin' SFX boxes!

/end rant
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Griffith on October 12, 2006, 03:45:28 AM
everytime this thread is updated I'm hoping it's a reply from Chris Warner.
Hélas! it's nothing so useful and intriguing. just the same message, different people, over and over again. :judo:

Yeah, hail Chris Warner, the great wise one! Because I'm sure he'd have something really different and enlightening to update us with...

"Sorry, it's impossible to make everbody happy, so we won't make anybody happy. Thanks for being such suckers, though.

-Chris

P.S. Oh, and Rane, it was great in the butt last time, we need to get together again soon. It'll be a berserk manboy mosh pit that you better not let your grandma in on, unless you love big wrinkly incest tities to the eXtreme!"

Thank you, Chris! May I have another!?


BTW, the guy's at Dead Horse can work in references to Shakespeare on their backcover blurbs, but they can't come up with better translation vocabulary than "groovy" or "neat"?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Chris Warner on October 12, 2006, 09:17:25 PM
Yeah, hail Chris Warner, the great wise one! Because I'm sure he'd have something really different and enlightening to update us with...

"Sorry, it's impossible to make everbody happy, so we won't make anybody happy. Thanks for being such suckers, though.

-Chris

P.S. Oh, and Rane, it was great in the butt last time, we need to get together again soon. It'll be a berserk manboy mosh pit that you better not let your grandma in on, unless you love big wrinkly incest tities to the eXtreme!"

Thank you, Chris! May I have another!?


BTW, the guy's at Dead Horse can work in references to Shakespeare on their backcover blurbs, but they can't come up with better translation vocabulary than "groovy" or "neat"?

And people wonder why I haven't logged in recently. Or probably won't again any time soon. It's amazing to me that this is the kind of treatment people dish out when I've come onto this site—and I'm under no obligation to do so—listened to what people have had to say, answered questions, and actually incorporated suggestions and requests into the direction of the book, such as moving the book to bimonthly status (something bookstores would prefer we NOT do, by the way), and . . . yes, sound effects translation. Specifically, here's what I've been told we should do with sound effects translations by Berserk readers:

1. re-letter the sound effects in english

2. run small translations right next to the effects

3. only run translations in panel gutters (despite the fact that some pages/panels don't have any)

4. print translations only in an index

5. don't translate effects at all

See? There's nothing to this job!

We're making adjustments to this as we go, but literally, and I ain't kidding, no matter what we do, somebody won't like it. At some point, I have to draw the line and move on. If some of you decide to stop buying the book, I'm sorry, but that's your choice. I know some people who refuse to watch dubbed foreign films, and then again, I know others who have no patience for subtitles. What can you do when you can only release something one way? As the audience, you make your choices about what to do with your dollars. But realize that the publisher can't produce the work five different ways.

One thing I can do, though, is make damn sure I don't respond to insults, particularly from those who bravely hide in cyberspace behind pseudonyms. I've been editing manga for almost twenty years, and life's too short to put up with abuse from people who've never even met me and know absolutely nothing about life on this side of the fence. I don't think I've said one thing here to indicate that I think I'm on some lofty perch, looking down on readers, and yet total strangers are happy to treat me like some dog because I won't do tricks on command. Incredible.

Certainly, the vast majority of you who've contacted me have been gracious, and that's appreciated. You're great. But this kind of grief I don't need, and I won't spend one more second of my life dignifying it.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: pippin22 on October 12, 2006, 09:48:12 PM
Griffith didn't get a chuckle out of you? :serpico:

The Dark Horse releases may not be perfect, but one thing is for sure, it is nice of you to stop by here once in a while to talk to us.  I hope you continue doing that.

I personally think the sound effects are so pointless...  "BAM" "BOOM" "GOONG", what's the difference?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on October 12, 2006, 09:49:21 PM
We're making adjustments to this as we go, but literally, and I ain't kidding, no matter what we do, somebody won't like it. At some point, I have to draw the line and move on. If some of you decide to stop buying the book, I'm sorry, but that's your choice.

Why didn't Dark Horse just stick with not translating the sound-effects?  It seems like you listened to some of the fans.  I just don't understand how Dark Horse chose covering up the artwork as the best way to go about things.  That doesn't make any sense to me at all.  The artwork is the last thing that should be touched, no matter what changes are felt necessary.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Anna on October 12, 2006, 10:13:20 PM
Berserk's bloody barrage of carnage will have ravenous fans craving for more. "What about second breakfast!"?!  :isidro:
(Don't bother telling me that Shakespear [sic] is better than Tolkien)

XD XD

Whoa! Careful there, Oberi! You might be giving the folks at DH ideas...!! We know they come skulking round here....

...Won't it be hilarious if this turns out to be the final line of volume 16's blurb!?![/size]
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Griffith on October 12, 2006, 10:51:51 PM
Mr. Warner, I'm surprised you'd respond to me, and am admittedly embarrassed.

Yes, I don't know you, and this certainly wasn't something to your face; but, by that same token, it's also something not to be taken too seriously. Funny as it may sound, it wasn't even intended for you, and I didn't consider you my audience (you hadn't been around). I'm sure you've jokingly said things about Berserk fans you couldn't print either.

Anyway, my ridiculousness aside, there was also a valid point there (and many others here) that I'm not going to backpeddle from, and to be fair, of all things, it was the obscene and satirical rant that did get a response from you, which again, was not my intention. Anyway, since it was my indiscretion, I do hope something more constructive comes of this.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Chris Warner on October 12, 2006, 11:03:37 PM
Griffith didn't get a chuckle out of you? :serpico:

The Dark Horse releases may not be perfect, but one thing is for sure, it is nice of you to stop by here once in a while to talk to us.  I hope you continue doing that.

I personally think the sound effects are so pointless...  "BAM" "BOOM" "GOONG", what's the difference?

Back again. Go figure.

What's the difference? The reason we're doing manga non-Westernized is because (some) readers screamed that we weren't being authentic by Westernizing. That being said, how is it authentic to NOT translate some of Miura's work? I, an American editor, should pick and choose which of the author's effects are worthwhile and which aren't? You do see the slippery slope here, right? Certainly, to a Western reader a sound effect that indicates silence seems pretty out of place, but somehow in its "authentic' condition, this storytelling device is there for a reason. If authenticity is important, then I don't see how altering that kind of thing for a more (how do I put it?) comfortable Western reading experience serves that end. Now, of course, we get back into that area of an audience that does not have a single, specific esthetic. Some want this, some want that. Perhaps if we want to be even more authentic, we should run the English words vertically and array them in right-to-left layout. Now, that would be a helluvalot closer to the original japanese reading experiience, would far bettrer convey the vosual flow of the narrative, and the balloons would match up much better . . . but of course, it would read like shit. So, where to draw the line?

I'm the first guy to agree that the handling of some of the FX translations in the more complex panels in Berserk hasn't worked well at times, and I'm really trying to fix these issues. Unfortunately, Miura's storytelling/layout style doesn't make it easy. I do the same thing in Crying Freeman and Old Boy, and nobody has complained, but that probably has a lot more to do with the more open layouts and traditional panel arrangements of those titles. I can see, and am trying to address, captions that genuinely interfere with artwork. But a little caption box in a flat field of grey tone or in an area of dead texture doesn't interfere with anything, so let's try to be reasonable. On the other hand, I recently got an email that didn't want FX translations in the panel gutters, because he considered the gutters part of the artwork. You guys are killing me!

Miura's layouts and compositions are very dense. But the idea of an index is completely anathema to any kind of narrative flow from a reading standpoint. How is it "authentic" to interrupt the story and jump back to an index every fifteen seconds? And not to put too fine a point on it, but if unfettered artwork is what you're looking for, why aren't you demanding manga artists to put all the dialog and sound effects in indexes, too? Doesn't that stuff cover up a lot of art, too?

I'm going to do my best to make sure we handle this stuff better. I'm doing that every day I work on this book. I've heard what you guys have said, believe me, and I'm a reader, too. I agree with some (repeat SOME) of what you're saying. But lay off the horn, okay? I heard you the first fifteen times!

End of rant. Drink beer now.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Griffith on October 12, 2006, 11:30:47 PM
To me the problem supercedes the issue of translating sound effects altogether and becomes the bigger problem of altering the art, design, and flow of the panels themselves. While I understand you're between a rock and a hard place, for me as a reader, it's creating an even more fundamental problem. I didn't much care about the sound effects issue before, yet I'm now adversely affected by the solution. This is especially frustrating when it also goes against precedent set by the earlier releases, making it seem all the more illogical a step that it would change this way now, rather than a compromise more intuitive to the previous format.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on October 13, 2006, 12:01:44 AM
Hi Chris, and thanks for taking time to come over here and address some of our members' concerns. First off I'd like to state that the post that offended you is merely the expression of an individual member's opinion and is in no way representative of our community's stance on this matter. I would also like to point out, with all due respect, that there are plenty of other posts from other members to reply to, that one was merely the most recent addition to the thread, and not the one most worthy of your attention. I suggest you to ignore such posts and focus on more constructive ones. If you have any qualms with messages you deem inappropriate in the future (e.g. containing personal attacks), I invite you to contact me or Walter about it. Now, about the real issue: (I'll try to summarize people's opinion)

If authenticity is important, then I don't see how altering that kind of thing for a more (how do I put it?) comfortable Western reading experience serves that end. Now, of course, we get back into that area of an audience that does not have a single, specific esthetic. Some want this, some want that. Perhaps if we want to be even more authentic, we should run the English words vertically and array them in right-to-left layout. Now, that would be a helluvalot closer to the original japanese reading experiience, would far bettrer convey the vosual flow of the narrative, and the balloons would match up much better . . . but of course, it would read like shit. So, where to draw the line?

Alright, now let's not forget that everybody here is talking about finding a compromise. There's no way the English version of Berserk will ever be perfect in regard to the original. It's just not possible. We all understand this, and I don't think anybody here expects Dark Horse to realize the impossible. An appendix is a mere compromise, just like caption boxes are a compromise. Most of the fans I've heard on the subject, on this forum and in other places, seem to be distraught by what they perceive to be "fixing what wasn't broken." Having no translated SFX is also a compromise, and as it turns out it seems a lot of people were fine with it, because they understood that it wasn't technically possible to fully anglicize them without losing something in return. Like you said, a line has to be drawn at some point, and it was indeed done when Berserk was first published. That line was no translated SFX. I think a majority of readers were fine with it, and this sudden change isn't making sense to them. They don't understand what motivated it, and thus complain and don't know what course of action to take. I'm sure you can see how this leads to frustration on their part.

I'm the first guy to agree that the handling of some of the FX translations in the more complex panels in Berserk hasn't worked well at times, and I'm really trying to fix these issues. Unfortunately, Miura's storytelling/layout style doesn't make it easy. I do the same thing in Crying Freeman and Old Boy, and nobody has complained, but that probably has a lot more to do with the more open layouts and traditional panel arrangements of those titles.

I think you're right. Indeed, Berserk's particular layout style doesn't fit the caption boxes system very well. In my humble opinion, this could be a valid reason to search for an alternative. Trying to apply an inadequate solution will only result in frustration for all parties, DH because they'll make more efforts and won't meet much gratitude, and the fans because no matter how much effort DH makes, they will not be satisfied, and by that I don't mean fully satisfied but even simply satisfied by that compromise. Also, while fans know and understand that DH is tributary of the volumes themselves and that sometimes like in volume 13 it's going to look real bad, they know enough about the later volumes too to be able to predict that it will be as bad again in the future. Long term thinking is important here.

On the other hand, I recently got an email that didn't want FX translations in the panel gutters, because he considered the gutters part of the artwork. You guys are killing me!

Hahaha, while it's flattering of you, I don't think all the e-mails you receive concerning Berserk emanate from SK.net members. I would certainly like the site to be that big, but it would be presumptuous of us to assume it's the case.

But the idea of an index is completely anathema to any kind of narrative flow from a reading standpoint. How is it "authentic" to interrupt the story and jump back to an index every fifteen seconds? And not to put too fine a point on it, but if unfettered artwork is what you're looking for, why aren't you demanding manga artists to put all the dialog and sound effects in indexes, too?

Once again, I believe it is a matter of compromises. Dark Horse's volumes 1 to 11 of Berserk featured untranslated SFX. It seems the customers were fine with it. At the same time, some SFX can have interesting meanings (other than "bam," "paf," "hmmm," "gpa," etc) and help understand the story better. People would like to be able to know their meaning, but at the same time they aren't willing for this to be done at the expense of the artwork. These SFX aren't necessarily to be read at the back of the volume while actually reading the volume, rather they're meant as an after-read, something one might want to peruse while re-reading the volume and appreciating its depth. It would only be that: a compromise meant to satisfy as many people as possible (those that don't want the artwork altered, those that want SFX translated but not necessarily inside the flow of the story). Having caption boxes satisfies some people, but it appears that quite a bit of others (as this thread shows) are extremely unhappy with it. These people are only trying to voice their opinions, and since some individuals have claimed that their personal harassment of DH since the first publication of Berserk is what brought about this change, all the other fans want to be heard so DH knows that this small group lobbying to have translated SFX in captions isn't representative of the majority. Some might also point out that a lot the SFX aren't actually really translated (e.g. Japanese sound "GOPA" changed to "gpa") and do not bring anything really beneficial to the book in their current form. This reinforces their belief that no SFX at all, or an appendix would be more proper. But that is yet another question.

On a side note in this SFX frenzy, I would like to point out a topic that people often bring up but that has seldom been addressed: the back cover blurbs. All, and I'm saying ALL the people I've heard about them simply despise them. Not just die-hard fans but casual readers as well, there seems to be a general feeling of execration about them. So I humbly suggest that you consider changing them, as they do not reflect what Berserk is and as everybody appears to abhor them. I think replacing them by the very proper summaries of the events happening in each volume that are on Dark Horse's official website would be judicious, and effortless. Thank you for your attention on that point.

I'm going to do my best to make sure we handle this stuff better. I'm doing that every day I work on this book. I've heard what you guys have said, believe me, and I'm a reader, too. I agree with some (repeat SOME) of what you're saying. But lay off the horn, okay? I heard you the first fifteen times!

Once again, I'd like to thank you for taking time off your undoubtedly busy schedule to come here and discuss things with us, answer questions, etc. We're all very thankful for it, and rest assured that every fan of Berserk appreciates your dedication. But you can't just ask passionate people to stop being passionate, they can't help it. These people are die-hard fans, they're the ones that talk about a series to advertise it everywhere they go, and that will follow it to the very end no matter what, as long as they feel the object of their passion gets due respect.

Sorry for the giant reply, and have a nice evening.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Tirade on October 13, 2006, 12:07:18 AM
I can't agree enough with Griffith here.  True, some readers do what to understand the sound effects that accompany the story.  As some people have already stated, though, these SFX are actually PART of the artwork.  By choosing to translate these SFX you are basically putting more emphasis on parts of the Artwork/story that aren't the focal point.  Whether you like it or not, Mr. Warner, attention is being drawn to these FX boxes even more than the actually dialogue itself. 

As others have said, the story flow is severely interrupted by these FX boxes.  To be frank, I just wish you guys would have stayed true with what you were doing for the first 11 volumes.  The translations were decent and the story was comprehensible in english.  I could seamlessly turn from page to page and find no eyesore or distraction placed in the manga by Dark Horse.  With these new FX boxes, things are not as smooth as in earlier volumes.  And I certainly do not find these boxes to be aesthetically pleasing in the least.  Not only do they distract, but they also cover up the original artwork. 

As for your current DH fanbase, I have a feeling you alienated those who have already purchased the first 11 volumes (myself included).  I would be curious to see the dropoff in sales due to this switch.  Just as the story takes a critical turn, you decide to change direction and start adding mess to the pages.  As a reader, I certainly do not need to know every single sound effect in a manga.  I believe one can ascertain that from the general artwork.

In addition, let me take this opportunity to thank you as well, Mr. Warner, for gracing these boards.  Such an action speaks positively of you and Dark Horse IMHO. 

Zach

Edit: Thnx Aaz
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on October 13, 2006, 04:20:19 AM
I'd like to state that Griffith's post DOES represent the opinion of Skullknight.net, since I own it and agree with him.

I find it reprehensible that Chris decided to appear now, only when he was mock-insulted by Griff. Really, great work supporting the readers by ignoring us these past months during the SFX crisis, but magically appearing the ONE TIME someone makes a jab at your position.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Jaze1618 on October 13, 2006, 04:48:08 AM
MR. Warner, I actually felt I gained something from Volume 12 when it was translated with SFX, and the boxes didn't cover up the artwork enough for me to  get even slightly upset. However some of the scans I've seen in this thread featuring volume 13 are very upsetting. I'm assuming those are some of the worst in the volume.

While I thought volume 12 was an improvement 99% over 1-11 I don't want to have pages that look like some of the pages in volume 13 do. So knowing that you have to work around what miura has created Dark horse can't promise how future volumes will turn out when translated like they have been. So I guess I have to choose my preference of all or nothing. And I choose nothing- meaning volumes 1-11 are better than what happened in 13.

another reason an appendix would be good is that you can actually have the room to translate some of the sound effects rather than fitting tiny confusing transliterations on the artwork.
Done.

Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Chris Warner on October 18, 2006, 03:08:26 PM
I'd like to state that Griffith's post DOES represent the opinion of Skullknight.net, since I own it and agree with him.

I find it reprehensible that Chris decided to appear now, only when he was mock-insulted by Griff. Really, great work supporting the readers by ignoring us these past months during the SFX crisis, but magically appearing the ONE TIME someone makes a jab at your position.


While I appreciate your immediate jumping to conclusions and impugning of my motives, let me be real clear on this. I don't usually have time to come over to the boards here unless there's a reason, particularly these days when I'm in the midst of the heaviest book schedule I've ever had, exacerbated by Berserk going bimonthly--something I pushed to Dark Horse because readers were asking for it, proving once and for all that I don't care about or listen to Berserk readers. Last week, when I began getting a flood of emails out of the blue, I thought I probably should drop in here and see what's up. I've never been a day-in/day-out contributor here, so my absence shouldn't be unexpected, nor should any dark agenda be ascribed to it. BTW, one man's mock-insult is another man's insult, particularly when another man is the guy getting insulted. Anybody who's sent more than three emails in their lifetime should know by now that it's pretty difficult in print to gauge intent, and just as often as not, the claim that someone was "really just kidding" is just retroactive cover when getting called out by the person they so bravely insulted in front of their pals, never expecting the person they were ripping to know about it. That said, since this is your site and since you administrate these boards and have made it perfectly clear that you fully subscribe to this "shoot first, ask questions later" approach, I'll stay off your boards permanently.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: CnC on October 18, 2006, 03:51:35 PM
That said, since this is your site and since you administrate these boards and have made it perfectly clear that you fully subscribe to this "shoot first, ask questions later" approach, I'll stay off your boards permanently.

Awww, don't do that. The opinions of Walter or "SK.net" don't necessarily reflect the opinions of CnC (unless the admins physically change what I write...) :)

While you should probably take personal insults veiled under the cloak of anonymity with a grain of salt, you should not ignore an overwhelming criticism of your work. If there are that many people e-mailing you concerning a grave error in how you're handling the series you should pay attention to it at the very least if not fix it immediately.

Resigning yourself from the discussion is a step backwards, favoring ignorance instead of any voice of disagreement.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: handsome rakshas on October 18, 2006, 06:42:08 PM
I am starting to feel bad now. While I could have been constructing educated posts I chose to make stupid remarks and not help our cause at all. I have one question though, why did Chris choose to make a reply to Walter and Grif and not dignify Aaz's fantastic post? Rather than this back and forth arguing, I would LOVE to be able sit in on a chatroom conversation between Chris, Walter, and Aaz. If that ever happens I would like to reserve a spot now. Aaz, that was a great reply!

Edit: And how could I forget Pippin's post?  :schierke:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: pippin22 on October 18, 2006, 07:24:59 PM
I have one question though, why did Chris choose to make a reply to Walter and Grif and not dignify Aaz's fantastic post?

Hey!  Don't forget me! :troll: :troll: XD

Chris, come on man...  Replying to my crap post before Aazealh's.

Oh well, who needs 'im. :void:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Proj2501 on October 18, 2006, 09:12:36 PM
It's a shame things turned out the way they did. Certain situations need to be handled in certain ways. IMO, this situation wasn't handled in the best manner it could've been.

But let's take into account we here at SK.net, LOVE Berserk. I mean Walter loves it so much...he gave us SK. Aaz's posts speak for themselves, I tire halfway through reading them, they are that long. (You all know it's true) But they are so long because he is so thorough. Why...because he LOVES Berserk. CnC, Lith and myself (plus a slew of others) love Berserk so much we color in the manga when we could be doing better, more constructive things with our lives!!!

Don't think I'm sucking up to the admins or certain individuals...I'm not. My point is we here at SK, are damn near and in most cases obsessed. So of course we nitpick about certain things that Joe-Schmo in East Bumblefuck...who has never read Berserk before nor ever logged onto SK.net and isn't as informed as we are...wouldn't care about. (Effects translations and whatever else you can name.) For him he just wants to read the story and find out what the fuck is gonna go down next. He is the casual reader. We are purists. We get emotional.

In some warped and twisted way I can see where Mr. Warner was coming from. But I still don't agree. How can covering so much art with obtrusive lil boxes even look good. Didn't anyone stop him at DH, like a co worker, and say..."Ummm, helloooo?" It was so simple to add a glossary in the back. Boom, problem solved. But you all kno the deal with that.

If anything he should take a cue from people here because I think when we aren't flaming or acting like morons...we are in fact a very well rounded, informed, and active Berserk community...not to mention CLIENTS!!!! :miura:

Hopefully Mr. Warner trolls around and reads this. Mr. Warner! Listen man. No matter which way you slice and dice and try to justify that the Sound FX boxes are good, they aren't. It's not too late to get rid of them. Listen to us. We don't wanna do anything to hurt this series. TRUST US.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: SMZKAH on October 18, 2006, 10:04:21 PM
If anything he should take a cue from people here because I think when we aren't flaming or acting like morons...we are in fact a very well rounded, informed, and active Berserk community...not to mention CLIENTS!!!! :miura:

Hopefully Mr. Warner trolls around and reads this. Mr. Warner! Listen man. No matter which way you slice and dice and try to justify that the Sound FX boxes are good, they aren't. It's not too late to get rid of them. Listen to us. We don't wanna do anything to hurt this series. TRUST US.

Couldn't have said it better myself.  Bravo.  There is a way to make things right again.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on October 18, 2006, 10:41:03 PM
I'm still waiting for good answers to our solid questions from Chris.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Griffith on October 18, 2006, 11:09:01 PM
I really do appreciate his position; that he's here at all when he doesn't have to be, and he's a frustrated editor dealing with frustrated fans. But, as someone who would be interested in actually talking about the relevent topics with him honestly, even if we're at an impasse, I can't say I'm happy with his choice of posts to address, mine included (I feel like I'll have better luck calling him names if I actually want him to reply to me). Aazealh, for example, was seemingly ignored for his efforts to be respectful and intelligently address the issue. Instead of this, "he said, she said" back and forth, we could be talking about the issues themselves and maybe understanding each other better (granted, I'm a slow learner).

But, if Chris Warner, as a representative of Dark Horse, isn't even going to take the high road, how are we to respond? I'll respond in kind.


P.S. Isn't it ironic that he kind of fits in here TOO well? =)
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: cuthulu on November 01, 2006, 03:23:51 PM
I wouldn't mind the SFX Boxes as long as they are kept in the gutters of the page. If you are going to make a compromise like that fine, but there is no need to actually cover up the art work.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Scorpio on November 03, 2006, 09:13:45 AM
In the case of Berserk, there are often no gutters on a given page.  Pretty hard to cram SFX translations into blank white space that doesn't exist.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Kagami on November 15, 2006, 11:07:57 PM
Wow, it's a shame that this discussion has suddenly died after Chris stopped posting.

See what sfx has done?

On another note, I miss having the releases so much that I am seriously tempted to bite the bullet and just deal with the silly SFX boxes. Anyone else shamefully about to succumb like me?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on November 15, 2006, 11:09:13 PM
My interest in the localization personally died after this fiasco. I won't buy another DH volume until something is changed in the way they handle SFX.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: C on November 16, 2006, 12:38:52 AM
I guess I am one of the few that like them. Oh well.   :puck:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Funkmasta Zeph on November 16, 2006, 01:29:35 AM
In the case of Berserk, there are often no gutters on a given page.  Pretty hard to cram SFX translations into blank white space that doesn't exist.

Its called a glossary. Common tactic used by other companies.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Señor Caudillo on November 22, 2006, 01:46:51 AM
Its called a glossary. Common tactic used by other companies.

I recently checked out the new manga released by Dark Horse titled "Kurosagi Corpse Delivery Service", and there was one there. So I dunno......




Anyways, Dark Horse has recently put up a sneak-preview for the upcoming volume 14. You can check it out here: http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/preview.php?theid=13-516

Also, notice something interesting about this particular one here. For the first time ever in 3 years, we've been spared those godawful "manga mosh-pits". Instead, in its place we have a nice little paragraph dedicated to Miura's "Berserk: The Prototype".

And take a look at the page 4 (panel 1) of the volume 14 preview
http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/preview.php?theid=13-516&p=4

Notice something strange? Yes, if you've been reading Berserk for quite some time now, you can see it too. As you know, whenever there's a male character appearing in Berserk manga (whether it's an adult man, a male apostle, or a little boy) without his shirt on, Kentarou Miura never draws in nipples on them. While all female characters have nipples in Berserk, males never do. Well, on this preview page however, you can clearly see some kinda dot drawn by a pencil on Guts' chest that clearly resembles a nipple. Moreover, when I compared that panel image to the one in the original Japanese tankoban that I own, I didn't see even a slight sign of Guts' "nipple" there whatsoever.

This is just friggin' confusing now. Is it just me, or did someone in Dark Horse thought that guys having no nipples is evil, and so they decided to add one in? ::)
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Lithrael on November 22, 2006, 01:53:01 AM
Quote from: Funkmasta Zeph
Its called a glossary. Common tactic used by other companies.

Quote from: BayJumper
I recently checked out the new manga released by Dark Horse titled "Kurosagi Corpse Delivery Service", and there was one there. So I dunno......

Oh, BayJumper, how I hate you.

Quote from: BayJumper
For the first time ever in 3 years, we've been spared those godawful "manga mosh-pits". Instead, in its place we have a nice little paragraph dedicated to Miura's "Berserk: The Prototype".

Great!

Quote from: BayJumper
This is just friggin' confusing now. Is it just me, or did someone in Dark Horse thought that guys having no nipples is evil, and so they decided to add one in? ::)

Bay, you goof, that's clearly a print error - a bit of crap on the art.  Hooray Dark Horse quality control.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: SaiyajinNoOuji on November 22, 2006, 02:34:35 AM
I like where this thread is going!  :troll:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: CnC on November 22, 2006, 11:05:43 AM
Also, notice something interesting about this particular one here. For the first time ever in 3 years, we've been spared those godawful "manga mosh-pits". Instead, in its place we have a nice little paragraph dedicated to Miura's "Berserk: The Prototype".

Quote from: Volume 14 Summary
The once unbeatable Band of the Hawk is smashed ...
And his discovery of a gigantic, dragon-slaying sword might be just the ticket to deal out some king-sized payback!

Yea.  The level of writing has vastly improved  :schierke:

edit by Walter: added another shitty line to the DH summary
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Funkmasta Zeph on November 23, 2006, 02:49:23 PM
Eh, I got 13, and I'll be honest it didn't bother me that much.

Course, as usual it failed to deliver any kind of SFX affect, but I wasn't all that distracted.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: QuestionMark on November 24, 2006, 01:58:00 AM
Man, people get bent out of shape so easily.   Just for the sake of presenting a variety of opinions, I thought I'd share mine (which I'm sure are in the minority)--

I thought the SFX were a bit over the top, but I prefer to know what the sounds are, to having no boxes at all.  I definitely would never look them up in an index, which is what I found so absurd about the newer release of, say, Nausicaa by Viz.  To me, I guess I'd prefer to see all the sounds re-drawn in English, if were feasible monetarily, as that provides (IMO) the nearest experience one can have to reading the original.

I didn't mind the first 11 volumes, but there were times I wish they had some sort of SFX.  And yet, there were times I wish there were fewer SFX in 13.  But I figure, I'm not editing these books, and I don't read Japanese-- I'm just happy they're being provided in English, and on a new bi-monthly schedule no less.

I mean, I think it's fine to complain, to email complaints and discuss the subject, but I'd never even considered for a moment that I would no longer buy any of the future volumes just because of the FX. 

But to each their own I suppose.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on November 24, 2006, 02:09:00 AM
I thought the SFX were a bit over the top, but I prefer to know what the sounds are, to having no boxes at all.

Well, since you don't know what they are, guess you have no point here, right? Because "GPA", "BAZHM", "GACHING" or "HMMMM" aren't telling you anything more than the original Japanese kana do. In fact they're telling you less.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: QuestionMark on November 27, 2006, 02:24:51 PM
Quote from: Aazealh
Well, since you don't know what they are, guess you have no point here, right? Because "GPA", "BAZHM", "GACHING" or "HMMMM" aren't telling you anything more than the original Japanese kana do. In fact they're telling you less.

I don't get your point here Aaz... How are you thinking the kana provides more info than a translation would?  An SFX box online provides a literal sound translation-- it doesn't have the graphic representation of the sound that he kana gets-- that's true-- but I don't see how they're telling you less.  Seemed to me that they're just telling you something different--or the same thing, but in a different way.  Or perhaps they're very badly translated sounds?  Is that your point?

Just looking for clarification, as your post seemed ambiguous.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on November 27, 2006, 04:10:45 PM
It's simple, my point is that "ゴパ" in Japanese has a meaning, while "GPA" in English is utterly meaningless no matter how you look at it (and it's not really "translated" actually). In essence, whether one went through the trouble of learning Katakana for a week or not doesn't change that fact. Now, I'm confident you don't speak the mysterious gibberish tongue, right? Then that "GPA" is actually counter-productive, because at least without it you could always second-guess the meaning, but now you're just left to wonder what "GPA" could be the sound of. Good luck with that. In that regard it tells you less than nothing, because it induces you in error. That's what I meant, I can see how it confused you.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: CnC on November 27, 2006, 04:50:21 PM
I challenge anyone to accurately describe the meaning of "GPA" without the context of the illustration to help.  Setting aside that the expressive illustration of the original kana almost completely negates the need for a literal translation, _actual_ meaning is better found outside the source material in an appendix.  If people HAVE to know what "GPA" is, a description of "The sound made when Guts slices through the head of a ghost" would be FAR more informative.

Damn am I sick of talking about it though.  The sheer amount of babbling in this thread about this subject is retarded, and evidence enough that something needs to be done to fix the problem.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Funkmasta Zeph on November 27, 2006, 05:54:58 PM
"GPA" Makes me think of the sound a person might make if they open thier mouthes dramatically.....
I'm sure thats not what it was though...
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: The Perineum Falcon on November 27, 2006, 06:29:15 PM
"GPA" Makes me think of the sound a person might make if they open thier mouthes dramatically.....
I'm sure thats not what it was though...
I believe the word you're searching for is... "gape". Or perhaps, maybe even, "agape."
Now we need a pronunciation key for the gibberish.

And I believe you've just proven their point.

When I see "GPA" I generally think of my scores in school. But that's just me.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: QuestionMark on November 28, 2006, 01:52:42 AM
Well, yeah, if the sounds are mistranslated-- if the Japanese sound affect doesn't literally translate as the "GPA!" sound-- then that would be what I would call a mistake.  But, to me,if that's the sound in Japanese, then whether or not its a dumb sound, I'd like to know what it sounds like in English. Does it have meaning??  No, but the sounds are part of the reading experience.  I mean, there are all sorts of absurd sound effects in English language comics that have no real relationship to the actual action they are depicting-- "ker-pow", "smash", "blam", "swoosh".  What do any of these "mean"?  We know how to "read" them, but that's because of cultural history, not because the words are somehow directly related to a real-world equivalent of the moment they're depicting.  I guess my point is that if "GPA" or other sounds they're using are gibberish, that shouldn't matter-- unless they're not gibberish in Japanese-- which I can't tell from your example.  If they're mistranslating it-- then yes, you are completely correct.

As for "GPA" specifically-- if that happened to be the actual sound that was on the page, I'd prefer to have it translated (and to me, having it in an appendix absolutely breaks any flow in the reading experience enough to make it absurd-- don't even include an appendix at all, is my opinion).  And although I can infer from the graphics that this sound is a "powerful" noise, that one a soft one, this one perhaps the sound of the wind in trees, etc. etc.  I guess I'm the kind of person that prefers to know the sound the creator thought of, rather than inserting my own "interpretation" of the graphics in a language I don't know. 

Thank you, btw, Aaz for giving a more detailed reply.

It's cool that you all disagree-- I know I'm never going to convince you to agree with me.  I would love to know, though, what the Japanese sound really translates as-- is it a sound only?  Or does it have some "meaning" as you were suggesting?  If so, what's the meaning?  Are we talking about "Gush" or "Ka-ching" or something like that?  Just trying to wrap my brain around how they mistranslated the sound, as an example of some of your issues with the SFX in general.

Also, what about the "the sound of silence" SFX-- was it an actual "sound" in Japanese? Or literally "silence", written the way I'll sometimes see "blink, blink" as a FX?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on November 28, 2006, 09:51:51 AM
Well, yeah, if the sounds are mistranslated-- if the Japanese sound affect doesn't literally translate as the "GPA!" sound-- then that would be what I would call a mistake.

A sound can't be translated. "Aaaa" is the same sound in every language. It's not even a matter of language, it's just a sound. We're talking about sound effects here. Onomatopoeia. Mimetic words that can represent anything from an actual sound, to an action, a situation or even an emotion (Japanese SFX are categorized, but I'm going to leave that aside for clarity's sake). That's a very important distinction, and it's both surprising and disappointing that you're not making it at this point in the thread since it was brought up in previous posts. A dog will bark the same way no matter what country he's in or what language his owners speak, but people have different sound effects for it in different languages. SFX aren't just sounds, especially in Asian languages. If you don't understand this then I don't think you should keep posting about it.

But, to me,if that's the sound in Japanese, then whether or not its a dumb sound, I'd like to know what it sounds like in English.

What do you think "Yami no Kemono" sounds like in English? It sounds like "Yami no Kemono." Is that sounding smart or dumb? I'm not sure how you tell. Now, what does it mean in English? That's a more interesting question, don't you think? What applies to real words also applies to SFX.

Does it have meaning??  No, but the sounds are part of the reading experience.  I mean, there are all sorts of absurd sound effects in English language comics that have no real relationship to the actual action they are depicting-- "ker-pow", "smash", "blam", "swoosh".  What do any of these "mean"?  We know how to "read" them, but that's because of cultural history, not because the words are somehow directly related to a real-world equivalent of the moment they're depicting.

You can't tell if it has meaning or not in your current situation. And once again, we're not talking about sounds here, but SFX. These aren't what you'd hear if what's in the manga happened in real life, and it's why I think this paragraph perfectly highlights your mistake. The sound effects you're describing aren't meaningless in English. You can tell what they mean, even if it's vague and not clearly defined. That's the nature of SFX, and the fact they're not particularly similar to the sound one action or another really makes in real life is totally irrelevant. Don't you understand? No word is directly related to what it depicts (well, save for ideograms I guess). The word "table" in itself doesn't evoke a table, you know what it means because you speak English. The same goes for SFX, both in English and in Japanese. "Gaching" doesn't evoke anything to you because you don't speak Japanese, but to a Japanese person it's "the sound of a hard surface hitting another hard surface" (usually metal). If you wanted to "translate" it in English, it could be something like "clank," "clunk," "clonk," "bonk," etc. Or in the case of apostles snapping their jaws shut while trying to eat Guts, maybe "clack" or something? That is an attempt at translating the SFX. Just writing "gaching" on the page isn't. Now in my mind there's no doubt that the easiest and clearest way to explain and detail stuff like this is through an appendix, as you can't just write whole sentences on the artwork for the sake of explicit SFX, but that's another discussion.

I guess my point is that if "GPA" or other sounds they're using are gibberish, that shouldn't matter-- unless they're not gibberish in Japanese-- which I can't tell from your example.

Well obviously they're not meaningless in Japanese. Obviously they're indicating something. Why include them otherwise? Just to take up space? Seriously, did you re-read that before posting, or even pay attention to what I said? And are you saying that it doesn't matter if the "English SFX" you like so much are complete gibberish and thus useless to you? Because that's not a very smart point.

(and to me, having it in an appendix absolutely breaks any flow in the reading experience enough to make it absurd-- don't even include an appendix at all, is my opinion).

I'm sorry but that's a pretty stupid opinion, I hope you realize that. It's not like an appendix would hinder your reading experience if you didn't want to use it. To include one or not wouldn't change anything in that case. It can only be beneficial no matter your stance on the subject. And the point wouldn't be to use it as you read, but after the reading, as an in-depth analysis kind of thing. Besides, if you made a minimal effort, it could even help you recognize and understand the original SFX all by yourself overtime. That's not really the question here though, don't think I'm trying to convince you.

I would love to know, though, what the Japanese sound really translates as-- is it a sound only?  Or does it have some "meaning" as you were suggesting?  If so, what's the meaning?  Are we talking about "Gush" or "Ka-ching" or something like that?  Just trying to wrap my brain around how they mistranslated the sound, as an example of some of your issues with the SFX in general.

Well, why do you think I suggested it in the first place? I think I've already explained enough about all this. It's not a question of mistranslation, it's about simply transcribing words instead of adapting them in English. Take "ドキドキ", I can tell you it's "Doki Doki," but that doesn't mean anything to you. I can also tell you it symbolizes a fast heartbeat, and then a scene of a guy seeing a girl he's got a crush on takes another dimension. There are hundreds, probably thousands of example like this, such as "gooooooo" representing a roaring fire or "go go go go go..." denoting a menacing atmosphere or a threatening situation. Talking about "ゴパ", it's actually a difficult one. Usually people use it when one makes a violent effort, which in this case would be Guts slashing at ghosts with SK's sword. In any case, it sure doesn't mean "GPA" in English, which doesn't mean anything at all.

Anyway, aside from that I don't think it's fair to put all the blame on the translator for problems like these. I said so before in this thread and I'll repeat it: translating SFX isn't an easy task. It's often hard to properly convey Japanese SFX in English, and sometimes impossible. Make that ten times harder when you also have to make it as short as possible so it doesn't completely cover the artwork (not mention it must feel "natural" to the reader too). Let's take the SFX of "dimming light" from volume 12. That's a clear explanation of what the SFX means, no problem here. Only it's practically a sentence instead of being a small word. Good thing there was a gutter they could use on that page. How about for "gaching" then? It's just the sound of "a hard surface hitting another hard surface," let's write that on the page along with 5 other SFX captions, it should only cover about a fifth of the picture! See the problem here? An appendix would make things so much easier in that regard.

Also, what about the "the sound of silence" SFX-- was it an actual "sound" in Japanese? Or literally "silence", written the way I'll sometimes see "blink, blink" as a FX?

It's a sound effect representing silence. It's not the word "silence" written there and it's not a sound you can hear, it's just a sound effect. Sound effects don't necessarily describe something audible, in spite of how paradoxal that may seem to you at first. You should have known all of this before posting... Anyway, if you're really interested by this stuff, I don't think SK.net is the best place to ask for more information to be honest. We're not SFX experts or anything like that. I recommend you to buy books on Japanese Onomatopoeia, I'm sure that'd answer any question you might have.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: CnC on November 28, 2006, 12:01:49 PM
FX:  ZING!

Yeesh, when I asked people to find the meaning of "GPA", I should have included it was a trick question.  Perhaps it was too subtle.  :schierke:

Anyway, Aaz has reiterrated my earlier point (albeit no longer in a subtle way) that the SFX "translations" have no meaning.  They have no business covering the artwork.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Señor Caudillo on December 07, 2006, 04:01:06 AM
Well I'll be damned to hell. This is certainly not what I wanted to see when checking  this  (http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/profile.php?sku=14-352) out.

Looks like DH has already put up the profle for the upcoming release of of Berserk vol 17. But there's something that I was hoping that would be gone for good, has re-appeared. Yes, I'm taling about everyone's beloved blurbs that have appear on the back of the Dark Horse's edition of Berserk. Wanna know what kind of "manga mosh pit" that is in store for us (no pun intended) this time?

Here we go:

Quote from: Back of the upcoming Berserk vol 17
Created by Kentarou Miura, Berserk is an out-of-control manga flashfire, a searing epic of blazing action, blasphemous horror, and black humor that has left scorched earth and toasted readers in its fiery wake. Burn, baby, burn!

"Burn, baby, burn!"?! What the is that supposed to mean?! Does this even has anything to do with Berserk?! And what about "toasted readers"?! It seems like Dark Horse is really out of control now. This is just  great. Last time, we were served up with "Speak, hands for me!" that was supposed to be a reference to a Shakespeare play. But now, we get a disco tune. This is really getting on my nerves now. Since vol 14 and 16 do not feature those "manga mosh pits", why does this has to return?  

Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on December 07, 2006, 05:40:33 AM
"Burn, baby, burn!"?! What the fuck is that supposed to mean?! Does this garbage even has anything to do with Berserk?! And what about "toasted readers"?! My God, it seems like Dark Horse is really out of control now. This is just fucking great. Last time, we were served up with "Speak, hands for me!" bullshit that was supposed to be a reference to a Shakespeare play. But now, we get a disco tune. This is really getting on my nerves now. Since vol 14 and 16 do not feature those "manga mosh pits", why does this shit has to return? Now I'm thinking that DH has been intentionally putting this shit up just to piss us off.

Wow, they've really outdone themselves.  This is so ridiculous it doesn't even make me angry (although it should...).  Maybe this is the real reason behind the current Berserk hiatus.  That whole statement about putting more detail into the coming episodes was all a ruse, when in reality Miura got a peak at this little summary and hasn't recovered yet. :SK:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Lithrael on December 07, 2006, 05:45:07 PM
Now I'm thinking that DH has been intentionally putting this shit up just to piss us off. 

Now why would they do something like that?  You know they love the fans so much, they'll put fan-pleasing FX boxes all over the art when a humble reader such as yourself sends them some letters.

You just need to write them some more letters telling them how to fix the book, Bay.  Then all will be well.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: kuroikagesoku on December 08, 2006, 12:32:10 AM
Now I know im sort of new to this thread, and ive read pretty much all of the whole FX fiasco and up from there. My question would be "IF" we somehow managed to get them to remove FX boxes from the art in say vol 18 or somthing.( I know this is hoping for a bit too much) would they go back and take them out of the previous volumes that had them and republish a bunch
(not as many but enough) so that previous readers that kicked the DH version to the curb would buy that? I mean it cant be that hard to do and that would get me to start buying them again. I dont know maybe I'm trying to hope for to much.... but in any case a "Collectors edition" or a non FX version would be a most exelent idea
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on December 08, 2006, 12:51:10 AM
Now I know im sort of new to this thread, and ive read pretty much all of the whole FX fiasco and up from there. My question would be "IF" we somehow managed to get them to remove FX boxes from the art in say vol 18 or somthing.( I know this is hoping for a bit too much) would they go back and take them out of the previous volumes that had them and republish a bunch
(not as many but enough) so that previous readers that kicked the DH version to the curb would buy that? I mean it cant be that hard to do and that would get me to start buying them again. I dont know maybe I'm trying to hope for to much.... but in any case a "Collectors edition" or a non FX version would be a most exelent idea

Sounds really infeasible, and if DH was even open to this kind of logic, they would have already republished volumes 1-11 with the added sound *FX.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: SaiyajinNoOuji on December 08, 2006, 01:28:31 AM
See how my last post was deleted, probably due to flaming and name calling (understandable). I am taking a new approach. Since things are very slow at work. I am going through every comic product that Dark Horse has and looking at their little snippet's for each book that describes what they are. I will post those that are similar to Berserk over the top dumbness.

What do I aim to prove? Not really sure but if Berserk ends up being the only one that is over the top to the point of making it corny, well, I hope who ever writes that stuff gets slapped.

Edit: By the way, there are 745 items in the comics category.  :judo:   OH SWEET JESUS THERE ARE 745 items just for the god damn A-B category!  :judo: :judo: :judo: :judo:

EDIT 2:
Seeing how it would probably take me a month to read through everything its rather funny that Comics that are meant to be off the wall and cheesy like say the Mask for example, have a much better description then Berserk. Also with the whole Berserk thing at first they weren't THAT bad but just all of a sudden its just BAM! What the fuck? I think its time who ever is witting this stuff is swapped out with some one else. I don't see a reason for it.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on December 09, 2006, 04:46:27 AM
Also with the whole Berserk thing at first they weren't THAT bad but just all of a sudden its just BAM! What the fuck? I think its time who ever is witting this stuff is swapped out with some one else. I don't see a reason for it.
I think you're really forgetting some of the bad ones... Look to Handsome Rakshas' list of the volumes' backcovers. Even the early ones were embarassing.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: SaiyajinNoOuji on December 09, 2006, 08:00:03 AM
I think you're really forgetting some of the bad ones... Look to Handsome Rakshas' list of the volumes' backcovers. Even the early ones were embarassing.
Well when I say not that bad I mean compared to the latest one and all the other manga mosh pit jargin. I know they have to sell it as being a violent manga, which it is, but look how they treat Akira. ALL HAIL OVER RATED MANGA AND CODDLE ITS BALLS!  :schierke:

I dont see what the big deal with that manga/anime was. The first big thing that got translated and released in America? Blah so what, Voltron was from Japan, I think it was better then Akira. Anyways im ranting so there.  :miura:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on December 09, 2006, 09:15:31 AM
look how they treat Akira. ALL HAIL OVER RATED MANGA AND CODDLE ITS BALLS!

I don't think Akira is overrated. In any case that's not really the thread to be talking about it, and to go back on topic a little, I don't think the blurbs are our biggest concern anyway.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Omega Tom Hanks on December 14, 2006, 03:40:29 PM
Well by volume 14 I was able to pretty much ignore the fx translations, see I own all the JP manga volumes, but I look at those for the art, and I read the american ones for the story, though sometimes the shit is hard to understand.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Jaze1618 on December 21, 2006, 03:51:05 AM
yea  a much better job this time around with the locations of the FX
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Tzur on December 22, 2006, 04:42:39 AM
yea  a much better job this time around with the locations of the FX
Why not simply get rid of them all together? (Not that I waste my time reading them)

Although Dark Horse seems to be improving on the releases (no more cut-offs, though there was alot of dark, smeared print in my copy of volume 14), the fx could definitely be done away with - this isn't VIZ, after all...
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: pippin22 on December 22, 2006, 05:07:36 PM
Why not simply get rid of them all together?

Let's not get into that. :troll:

there was alot of dark, smeared print in my copy of volume 14

Sounds great!
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Locus of Agony on January 16, 2007, 06:24:36 PM
I like the SFX boxes, but that's just me. I wish, they could speed up their release schedule though, volume 15 this month, their (almost) halfway there!

Also, why don't they include the colored pages? That really bugs me to see several beautiful panels you know where colored in the orginal version left black and white.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on January 16, 2007, 06:55:39 PM
Also, why don't they include the colored pages? That really bugs me to see several beautiful panels you know where colored in the orginal version left black and white.

These aren't colored in the Japanese volumes either. They only were during the pre-publication, in Young Animal. It's a shame, but including them isn't very cost effective. I personally hope we'll get a deluxe edition (Japanese, not DH) with these pages colored, but for now that's just wishful thinking.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on January 16, 2007, 07:53:28 PM
I personally hope we'll get a deluxe edition (Japanese, not DH) with these pages colored, but for now that's just wishful thinking.

Yeah, that'd be pretty sweet.  A bunch of 'em are colored (and quite large) in the BERSERK Illustrations File artbook, though.  However, I recommend picking that up no matter what. :guts:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Locus of Agony on January 16, 2007, 08:36:50 PM
Thanks for the tip, I'm ordering that book from akadotretail.com next week.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Hax on January 30, 2007, 03:34:56 AM
And now for something completely different.

In volume 14, when Guts recieves his Metal prosthetic hand, There's an interesting bit of dialogue.  "Groovy"

Did anyone else see this as an Evil Dead/Army of Darkness  reference?

for comparison: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6p0YbpLkr-E

Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on January 30, 2007, 04:05:17 AM
Yeah, it was discussed here in detail earlier. Most of us expressed our utter remorse for the anachronistic and self-effacing reference.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: handsome rakshas on January 30, 2007, 05:22:13 AM
Yeah, it was discussed here in detail earlier. Most of us expressed our utter remorse for the anachronistic and self-effacing reference.

How could you say that about this lovable old character?
(http://www.generation-snes.net/Tests/Earthworm_jim/Groovy.jpg)
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on January 30, 2007, 05:35:34 AM
Did anyone else see this as an Evil Dead/Army of Darkness  reference?

What you might not immediately get from the 2 posts above is that this is a totally artificial reference that was added by the translator on a whim and isn't present in the original work. Reading the various threads on the subject of DH's edition of Berserk should provide you with all the information you need on that point.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Jaze1618 on February 08, 2007, 08:48:46 PM

I don't know if ive just beomce numb or not, but after reading Vol 15 the fx boxes go by completely unnoticed anymore. They semed to have taken some comedic liberties with puck however..
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Locus of Agony on February 08, 2007, 09:04:05 PM
In volume 14, when Guts recieves his Metal prosthetic hand, There's an interesting bit of dialogue. "Groovy"

Yeah, I winced. Groovy? GROOVY!?  :chomp:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on February 11, 2007, 11:53:10 PM
Yeah, I winced. Groovy? GROOVY!?  :chomp:
I believe Guts says that one, not Puck. And another user already shared how they changed Puck's monologue while on the crow in vol 15.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: pippin22 on February 13, 2007, 07:14:31 PM
I just ordered volume one and I'm all excited about it.  All this time I've only had "Cawks" scans (and the Japanese manga, but they don't do me any good. :P).  I wonder how much difference there will be between Dark Horse and the scans.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Omega Tom Hanks on February 13, 2007, 08:18:14 PM
Its depressing to think by the end of 2009 is when we are expected to get vol 32, man I whish there was a way for them to release it faster.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on February 13, 2007, 10:58:06 PM
Faster than 2 months a volume would result in a quality drop and an embittered translator who likely would commit suicide at that rate of production.

Berserk's one of the more difficult series to translate in terms of the complexity of writing and language used. Comparing its release schedule to ... say, Naruto, would be unfair.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: SaiyajinNoOuji on February 13, 2007, 11:10:34 PM
Faster than 2 months a volume would result in a quality drop and an embittered translator who likely would commit suicide at that rate of production.

Berserk's one of the more difficult series to translate in terms of the complexity of writing and language used. Comparing its release schedule to ... say, Naruto, would be unfair.
CAN YOU BELIEVE IT!?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Jaze1618 on February 13, 2007, 11:31:53 PM
I think by the end of 2009 is a great rate of release.
I think they come out at just the right time. What walter said is true ebout a drop in quality and the burnout of the translator.

Let Beserk enrich you rather than Define you.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Darth on March 06, 2007, 04:50:25 AM
Just a reminder...

Issue 16 is still set to drop 3/28/07 :guts:

Issue 17 is set to drop on 5/30/07

Issue 18 is set to drop on 7/25/07

Ive yet to read or own these books in Japanese, so I'm expecting some seriously crazy shit to go on. But, in all honesty when isn't there some crazy shit going on in Berserk lol.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Jaze1618 on March 28, 2007, 12:39:08 AM
Hell Yes even tho I have read them I am equally excited for book 16 and the rest to come out!

We'll probably get it a week from tomorrow in Seattle.

EDIT: Did anyone else pick up volume 16 yet??

As far as dark horse goes I think its much better then their representation of #15. Will there ever be any swearing in darkhorse berserk? I really liked the translation i saw of Isidro and I hope hes just as foul mouthed.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: OmegaSeamaster on April 06, 2007, 11:42:42 PM
Man, I've just started getting into Berserk. I bought the first 10 books and I'm currently halfway through book 3.

Imagine my dismay when I read on this thread that the sound effects are going to be translated starting in book 12!

In my opinion, they totally aren't necessary. I'd rather have the unblemished artwork. Oh well, I'm not going to pick up the Japanese releases anytime soon, so I guess I'm stuck with what Dark Horse gives me.

So, did Chris officially resign from this board?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Jaze1618 on April 08, 2007, 06:18:18 PM
I dont know about chris but I just came here to post this regarding the sound effects before I saw your message.

I don't know about 14 or 15 as I havent been paying too muchy attention but at least starting in the new volume 16 the SFX no longer have boxes around them which makes them almost invisible unless they are in the gutters.

Hallelujah I think that this is way better than an index now that I've seen it.

my 2 cents
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Scorpio on April 09, 2007, 07:40:14 AM
For reference, heres an example of what I think are the new SFXs (I havent bought any for a long time, so I can't say with absolute confidence)

http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/preview.php?theid=13-847&p=4
(the "roarrrrrrrr")

I have to admit, it is much less intrusive, but I'm still hesitant to buy.  Maybe I'm just stubborn?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: OmegaSeamaster on April 09, 2007, 07:24:21 PM
Yes, that actually looks much better!

I wonder if they'll go back and "fix" the initial sound effects volumes. I doubt it, but one can hope.

Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: CnC on April 09, 2007, 08:17:21 PM
I like that better, as well. 
-Its no longer in a box
-its small and almost invisible
-it isn't just directly translating the "gogogogogogo"


Kudos, Mr. Warner
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on April 09, 2007, 08:33:40 PM
Indeed. If they keep this up, I'll be able to start buying them again.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: smoke on April 11, 2007, 12:21:40 AM
Too bad I just bought 13, complete with retarded boxes. I'm hoping a second printing will look more like this, or something.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: avidwriter on April 12, 2007, 03:38:13 AM
Too bad I just bought 13, complete with retarded boxes. I'm hoping a second printing will look more like this, or something.

I'd like to see a 2nd printing of 12-14 I think at least 12 and 13 those were just bad with the SFX. Its possible. Just not at this time I don't think. Would they ever reprint 1-11 with the SFX? Now that I doubt even more, they'd have to go back and redo the volumes right? Ah well. The story isnt affected, the art is still mostly intact and I can always hope for better improvements and other such things.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: OmegaSeamaster on April 18, 2007, 03:51:31 PM
I don't know if they'd need to go back and put sound effects into the first 11 books, they're great without them.

I'd still love to see a reissue of the "bad effects" volumes to the new sound format, but it's probably wishful thinking. Not to mention since they come shrink wrapped it would be hard to know which "version" you'd be getting at the store.

Or, if you buy them online, you're at the mercy of whoever builds your order.

I'll probably buy the Japanese volumes and keep them as a reference for the offending volumes.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Darquenaut on April 18, 2007, 05:44:53 PM
I currently have Vol. 15 of the Dark Horse Berserk release and even though I am one of the minority that didn't get too bothered by the SFX in Vol. 13 (except for in a few cases- i.e. when they were scattered on a full two-page spread), I can say confidently that I noticed the SFX translations all of two, maybe three times in the entire volume; they are really, really unobtrusive this time around.

It's nice that it seems that there are a few editors listening to the fans disdain for the SFX boxes (albeit they're probably the same editors that listened to Billy, the fictional 14-year old from Dayton Ohio who really, really needed to know what galloping horses sounded like, but whatever.). Truly, I don't care for the SFX boxes either way, they really don't need to be in there, etc. etc., but at least they're doing something about it.

I should have Vol. 16 arriving in my mailbox sometime this week. I'll let everyone know how it looks and/or they put SFX on Guts forehead or something.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: kuroikagesoku on April 24, 2007, 01:16:28 PM
I just got 16 last night! its rather fantastic in terms of FX placement from what I can tell.
Translation wasnt as free as 14 was with the whole "groovy" thing, but there is a little bit

Very very awsome!
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Jaze1618 on April 24, 2007, 08:44:53 PM
Can someone point me too or explain the differances? I never got to see this.

I believe Guts says that one, not Puck. And another user already shared how they changed Puck's monologue while on the crow in vol 15.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on April 24, 2007, 09:22:58 PM
Can someone point me too or explain the differances? I never got to see this.

I believe you'll find what you're looking for in here: http://skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=6651.0 (http://skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=6651.0)
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: OmegaSeamaster on April 30, 2007, 06:17:51 PM
Forgive me if I'm flogging a dead horse, but....

I had a chance to examine the Japanese BERSERK volumes for the first time this weekend at Kinokunia Bookstore. Man, they were only $7 each, which seems like a steal compared to the price Dark Horse is charging.

I really liked the dust covers of the Japanese volumes with their shiny and colorful artwork. I looked at the cover of volume 13 next to Dark Horse's volume 13 and the colors on the DH cover seemed murky, dull and lifeless by comparison.

Flipping through each volume, I noticed that Dark Horse's printing seems to be blacker and the shading much darker than the tankoubons. They seemed to be lighter, airer and more detailed.

One thing stood out in my mind, so I checked it out. There's a panel in the second volume where you see the dismembered body parts of Vargas's wife and sons. In the DH printing you can BARELY see anything in the darkness, but in the Japanese version you can actually make out the grisly details.

If anything, it just makes me want to collect a Japanese set to have a great reference source in light of the wonky printing, page cutting and sound effects debate.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Jaze1618 on May 26, 2007, 01:34:50 PM
Alright Everyone I just picked up volume 17 yesterday in Seattle at my comic book store.

Some of the dialogs between Guts and Godot seem a bit off to me. I have already been influenced by scanlations so it could very well be that Dark Horse did a much better job at being more accurate in their translations. This however is one time where I preferred the fan done translations more.

What do you guys think?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: yota821 on June 01, 2007, 07:11:27 PM
Examples?  :void: <-- Too lazy to pick up the Dark Horse translations
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on June 01, 2007, 07:37:34 PM
Alright Everyone I just picked up volume 17 yesterday in Seattle at my comic book store.

Some of the dialogs between Guts and Godot seem a bit off to me. I have already been influenced by scanlations so it could very well be that Dark Horse did a much better job at being more accurate in their translations. This however is one time where I preferred the fan done translations more.

What do you guys think?
17's already out? Wow, I'll pick it up, since I heard the SFX issue has been addressed, at least a bit. I'll post here if I find any translation that stuck out as odd, but I'm not qualified to give a full assessment.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Omega Tom Hanks on June 04, 2007, 02:12:01 AM
Yeah maybe me being busy with other things lately but damn 17 coming out already, man where have I been
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: LoveHerMadly on June 10, 2007, 02:33:32 PM
Another solid issue, I actually can't remember how the SFX were handled in it, I was real hot about it for awhile, went tearing after Chris elsewhere about it and got no response, but I'm largely oblivious of it now, I won't let things like this hurt a series I love so deeply.  I actually thought the Godo dialogue was pretty damn good, I can see where one might think it awkwardly worded, but what matters is the message remains intact.
For all the crap I've gone through with DH, this is still a strong release, even considering my original issues with SFX, some strange translation decisions and the logo.  I've been buying them up since DH started it, because one way or another I love giving money to people who do largely good work like this.  I won't defend some things that certain already named DH reps have done as far as dealing with the fanbase, such as on this forum, but either way, short of censorship or a complete loss in translation quality, I won't stop supporting it.
Uggh, this is so cliche, one of those first post rant things by people looking for affirmation of their opinions. Bleh. (That's not it, I swear!)
Berserk is teh awesome, and so is v17, I should've just stopped there.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Funkmasta Zeph on June 12, 2007, 11:04:18 AM
It was great to see Mozgus introduced to America.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Grovel on June 16, 2007, 08:43:42 AM
Just got volume 17 earlier this week - pretty quick for UK, it normally takes a few weeks for it to get over here. I think that Dark Horse have got it about right now (or at least as good as it it can be), the SFX are there if you want them, but seem to be placed with a lot more thought and don't disrupt as much as previous. Nice one Dark horse!

Also, to anyone else here in the UK, I recommend The Book Depository (www.bookdepository.co.uk) for your Berserk and any other manga you need. It's the best place I have found, good selection, good prices and free postage.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: pippin22 on June 25, 2007, 07:44:47 PM
I found a good deal.  Overstock.com, they are $10.00 a piece and shipping doesn't exceed $2.95, no matter how many you buy.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Peregrine_Falcon on July 11, 2007, 07:56:21 PM
Hello to everyone on skullknight, I just joined today. I first want to thank the creators of this forum for creating a strong voice for the English-speaking fans that reaches those who distribute Berserk in America.

I also want to thank Kentarou Miura for creating this heart breaking, thought-provoking,
beautifully drawn, and action-packed masterpiece. It can be enjoyed on every level. Unlike many other storytellers, Kentarou Miura does not approach concepts such as dreams or revenge in a one-sided way. He shows that those who relentlessly pursue dreams can morally and physically destroy themselves or loved ones, yet he also understands that lives without dreams can be empty and sad. He also knows that those who live for violence and revenge are on the path self-destruction, but also understands that people who passively accept abuse will receive more abuse in turn. I could go on forever about why I love the rich world of Berserk but I don’t have time to write an encyclopedia’s worth of text…

After fixing the SFX boxes, it also seems that they finally agree to remove those atrocious series summaries.

Check it out:

http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/profile.php?sku=14-354

http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/profile.php?sku=14-355

It also appears that they are going to use colored frames on the covers now, so the stupid, American logo won’t cover up so much of the artwork (this was the worst for volume 13).

http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/profile.php?sku=13-515

Link to Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/1593077432/ref=s9_asin_title_3-1966_g1/104-0779495-9231160?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-1&pf_rd_r=1MHTDPS63EZ5J6C95K4E&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=288448401&pf_rd_i=507846)

I’ve seen the covers for all the current Berserk volumes on the encyclopedia but have only read the first 17 released in America. Of all the cover paintings, 18 has got to be the coolest looking one. I can’t wait to read it.

By the way, does anyone know why Amazon and every bookshop I could get in contact with is selling it in their stores a MONTH after its release date?

P.S.

Happy Birthday, Kentarou Miura! May you live a long, rich, happy life.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on July 11, 2007, 08:03:30 PM
Wow, that's a helluva first post, welcome to the board.

After fixing the SFX boxes, it also seems that they finally agree to remove those atrocious series summaries.

Check it out:

http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/profile.php?sku=14-354

http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/profile.php?sku=14-355

Just because they're not showing up on the site, doesn't mean they won't be on the back of the product anymore.  We'll have to wait and see when those volumes come out.

EDIT: Apparently the summaries show up on previous volumes on Dark Horse's web site, so they could be gone.  Nice.

It also appears that they are going to use colored frames on the covers now, so the stupid, American logo won't cover up so much of the artwork (this was the worst for volume 13).

Link to Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/1593077432/ref=s9_asin_title_3-1966_g1/104-0779495-9231160?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-1&pf_rd_r=1MHTDPS63EZ5J6C95K4E&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=288448401&pf_rd_i=507846)

Very cool, I like the look much better.  Still an atrocious logo, though.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Proj2501 on July 12, 2007, 12:35:16 AM
By the way, does anyone know why Amazon and every bookshop I could get in contact with is selling it in their stores a MONTH after its release date?

This same situation has plagued me here in NJ. In my area (Central Jersey), you have to hunt for a copy of Berserk during it's scheduled release. The comic book store by me, who apparently has alot of people reserving copies of it, IS ALWAYS LATE. Barnes and Noble which is 2 mins from my house doesn't even offer it.  :puck: Why? Can someone tell me? The only places I know of that has the on time is a comic store 30 mins away from me and a place in PA. WHY IS THE WORLD SUCH A CRUEL PLACE? :judo:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Jaze1618 on July 12, 2007, 12:46:00 AM
I hate to burst anyone's bubble but in a week or two both the summary and the colored frames will almost certainly be added the volumes on darkhorse's page; they will also be adding a 4 page preview. They have done these 3 things, within a month of a volume's release, for every single volume at least since volume 13. I wasn't checking their website prior so i can't speak on that.

Quote
After fixing the SFX boxes, it also seems that they finally agree to remove those atrocious series summaries.

Check it out:

http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/profile.php?sku=14-354

http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/profile.php?sku=14-355

It also appears that they are going to use colored frames on the covers now, so the stupid, American logo won’t cover up so much of the artwork (this was the worst for volume 13).

http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/profile.php?sku=13-515
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Triple Life on July 12, 2007, 07:45:20 AM
By the way, does anyone know why Amazon and every bookshop I could get in contact with is selling it in their stores a MONTH after its release date?

The release date on Dark Horse's site is the date that it will arrive as shipped by Diamond, the company that ships comic books, manga and other collectibles to specialty shops. For regular book stores, it's a whole different system that I don't know anything about except that it takes longer. Your best bet is to go to a local comic book shop if you really want to get it as soon as possible.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Peregrine_Falcon on July 13, 2007, 12:55:05 AM
The Dark Horse website directed me to http://www.tfaw.com/ (http://www.tfaw.com/) to purchase the Berserk issue. It has listed the publication date for 7/25/07 as opposed to Amazon which listed it for 8/25/07. Is pre-ordering Berserk from them worth my time and is their shipping fairly quick? If not, then what are some other online stores that would be worthwhile?

EDIT: As of today, Amazon has bumped up Berserk #18's release date to 7/18/07:

http://www.amazon.com/Berserk-18-Graphic-Novels/dp/1593077432/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/105-2397168-9368418?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1184529678&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.com/Berserk-18-Graphic-Novels/dp/1593077432/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/105-2397168-9368418?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1184529678&sr=8-1)
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Blues on July 15, 2007, 11:16:49 PM
The best place I've been able to find Berserk in every state I've come across is Waldenbooks, ironically those in malls. When I go to f*in huge Barnes&Noble, they've no Vagabond, and if they -do- have Berserk, there's usually a massive gap in the series. My guess is the mature rating, but beats me.

As for Dark Horse, CORNY PUN INCOMING, people have been riding them way too much. Yeah, I have a few discrepancies with any translation/Americanization, be it manga or whatever the fuck from another nation/language, but in all honesty they've done a fantastic job with Berserk and at least try to fucking listen to the negativity people love to shit on them with. Yes, I'm saying at no aimed persons in N.A who depend on this "English" translation to be grateful, and if you don't like it or you are a big enough Berserk fan enough to where it DOES actually matter, you obviously are going to get the original published Japanese versions, so its beyond self-defeating to complain about them.

Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Scorpio on July 16, 2007, 02:16:29 AM
As for Dark Horse, CORNY PUN INCOMING, people have been riding them way too much. Yeah, I have a few discrepancies with any translation/Americanization, be it manga or whatever the fuck from another nation/language, but in all honesty they've done a fantastic job with Berserk and at least try to fucking listen to the negativity people love to shit on them with. Yes, I'm saying at no aimed persons in N.A who depend on this "English" translation to be grateful, and if you don't like it or you are a big enough Berserk fan enough to where it DOES actually matter, you obviously are going to get the original published Japanese versions, so its beyond self-defeating to complain about them.

I will agree that overall DH has done a pretty good job with Berserk, but to say that we can't criticize them for their mistakes is outrageous.  For one, I simply care about the quality of products associated with the story and characters I have grown to love.  Secondly, I would honestly rather buy volumes from DH.  I'm not sure how many sets of eyes you have, but reading back and forth from the manga to a translation script is the very definition of tedious.  And why can't members be upset when the translators take things into their own hands?  We should be grateful that we are not reading Berserk as it was intended?

As for my personal complaint, the whole issue of the SFX was very frustrating for a number of reasons stated by a large number of people in this very thread, and the belligerent "Fuck you, quit bitching about our product" response from DH at the time was ridiculous.  I can't say for certain, but I'm guessing that it's due to consumer criticism that they finally toned down the SFX enough that now its pretty much a non-issue.

In conclusion, I'll complain if I feel I need to.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Proj2501 on July 16, 2007, 10:00:21 PM
Now be a good boy and go spend your time with something else.
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g293/RRomero704/sktoetag.jpg)

Can't we all just get along?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Griffith on July 16, 2007, 10:06:41 PM
This whole mess just went in circles; down the drain with it. Guys, it's not your jobs to reply to posts concerning the board, it's Aaz's, so stop instigating these little pissing contests because his motives really aren't the same. I can't even read these threads anymore where the miles of quotes and endless replies break out.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Jaze1618 on July 26, 2007, 12:49:20 AM
Picked up Volume 18 today at Xanadu In Seattle at 3rd and Virginia
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on July 26, 2007, 01:56:19 AM
Picked up Volume 18 today at Xanadu In Seattle at 3rd and Virginia

I'm hoping Kinokuniya has it in stock tomorrow when I grab lunch.  I'm glad I decided to give Dark Horse another chance, as the SFX translations in the last couple volumes are done very well.  They're much easier to ignore now that they're not surrounded in giant white rectangles.  I really hope they alter the previous ones that used the big white boxes so that they're less noticeable whenever they decide to reprint them (not really familiar with the whole 1st print, 2nd print, etc. process, or how often it's done).
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Jaze1618 on July 26, 2007, 02:04:47 AM
Rhombaad, I was thinking specifically of you when I went to the details of including where in Seattle I found it. Good Luck!
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on July 26, 2007, 03:01:09 AM
Rhombaad, I was thinking specifically of you when I went to the details of including where in Seattle I found it. Good Luck!

Thanks man, I'll check Xanadu this weekend if I can't get it at Kinokuniya.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Peregrine_Falcon on July 26, 2007, 12:38:19 PM
Quote
Picked up Volume 18 today at Xanadu In Seattle at 3rd and Virginia

Lucky bastard!  :judo: I wound up special ordering mine from a video game shop and it may take weeks to come. By the way, Amazon has decided to start shipping Volume 18 by September 24th, so don't bother.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Proj2501 on July 27, 2007, 09:55:37 PM
Just got mine today. Of course, my local comic shop and the Waldens by me didn't have it. So I had to drive a few towns over and pick it up, but OH I GOT IT! (and picked up an Aliens/Predator Panel to Panel book...and like $150 worth of series I needed to catch up...TIME TO NERD OUT!!!!!)
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Peregrine_Falcon on August 07, 2007, 10:12:20 PM
The copy that I had ordered from amazon on July 15 FINALLY came today. I hope that amazon isn't going to be this slow on every volume. The SFX translations have remained unnoticeable and the cover art looks much crisper and less discolored than the previous volumes. I hope they use frames for all the upcoming DH Berserk volumes; keeping the cover art at original size really helped (I don't think this metallic color was the best choice though). I haven't read through all the pages yet but I haven't come across any translation that sounds weird.

Quote
Created by Kentarou Miura, Berserk is an unstoppable manga avalanche, an overwhelming epic of unbridled action, unsettling horror, and uncivil humor that has crushed both friend and foe alike in its relentless path of destruction. No pain, no gain!

The blurbs still suck like always, though.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: CnC on August 07, 2007, 10:25:28 PM
Quote
No pain, no gain!

I can't believe someone would be paid to write these. 
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on August 07, 2007, 10:41:10 PM
I can't believe someone would be paid to write these. 

It's probably being worked on by three manatees in a giant pool.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Griffith on August 08, 2007, 12:45:07 AM
I don't currently own any Dark Horse volumes. I had the first three, but I was so impressed (like by the typo on page 1) I gave them to my ex-girlfriend. Though despite this and my constant bitching, even driving Chris Warner himself from these boards, I concede that I will be buying them one day, which is probably why I'm so crabby about it, it's my Gad damn inescapable fate. =)

Anyway, I've been patiently waiting, hoping Dark Horse would sort out it's issues and that subsequent reprints would improve quality, of course, the opposite is also possible, and it seems that there's no standard or continuity in how the volumes are being handled, such as half of them having SFX boxes and half not.

So, can I get some advice on my course of action, because I only want to buy them once (since I'm actually buying the volumes themselves for the second or even third time). I imagine earlier volumes have improved with reprinting, perhaps not as dark, typos removed, printing errors gone (such as doubled episodes in a volume, etc.), that's basically the kinds of things I'd like to know, how do the reprints compare to the early releases? Have things only gotten better, or have they cheaped out even further like on paper quality and ink? I basically don't want to wait for improvement only to find out they actually got worse when it's too late for me to do anything about it (or worse yet, they go out of print altogether). Might I as well get them now, or might it be worthwhile to wait a bit longer, how's the series selling, what are the odds of higher quality reissuing after a time, these sort of things (how's that generally work with a long published series, I know Vagabond is being reissued, but that may not be common)? Like, are they possibly going to spruce up earlier volumes further, maybe even add the SFX bubbles? I might as well wait for something like that (even if it means waiting for years) if all the proceeding volumes will have them, since my chief concern is the translation anyway ("Groovy!").

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on August 08, 2007, 01:07:53 AM
I can't speak for reprints, as I don't own two editions of any one volume. But I do own DH volumes 3-12, and I can say the paper/ink quality certainly goes up as it progresses. Logically, reprints would follow that trend, unless their source material is the culprit of those messy too dark/light images that seem to be the bane of the DH editions... Well, that and *SFX  :troll: Of course, I own the japanese editions if I want to see near-flawless image reproduction. So, my purchase of the DH versions would, like you, be purely for the translation. 

Anyway, I also am grumbling about picking up the missing volumes, since I know I'll ultimately do it. I think the only reason I haven't is Im running out of bookshelf space. That and my wounded pride.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Peregrine_Falcon on August 08, 2007, 02:01:31 AM
I received the first 6 volumes around February 14th of this year, the next 3 volumes a couple months later, 8 volumes on June 10th and the last one today, so I can say that the majority of the ones I have are reprints. I don't recall spotting any errors on the reprint of the first volume. The first volumes were darker than normal and some of the later volumes seemed slightly lighter than normal, but this is minor to me.

The SFX translations are not insane like the ones in volume 13. You have to actually be looking for them to even find most of them at this point. Nothing is in a box, most are in small, narrow print in the gutter area, some are written in small, narrow, white text in black background, but you still have to look for them to notice them. Some of them are just transliterations like ZHA-ZHA but most are actual translations like CLOMP, WHAP, and ROAAAR. Sometimes they put in explanations of certain things an English speaking reader might not catch on such as Puck's running style being an imitation of Japanese comedian Kinichi Hagimoto's or the meaning of Tapasa.

The latest preview page they have up is this. You can get an idea of what the SFX translations look like:
http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/preview.php?theid=14-352&p=4 (http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/preview.php?theid=14-352&p=4)

I have compared its translation quality to those of other online translations/scanlations. Its translation is MUCH better. One example would be in the first episode of volume 17 when Puck wants Guts to be more appreciative of being saved. One scanlation, for example, had him say "Pretty please with sugar on top" in order to get the keys. That does not sound right for the Black Swordsman. The DH translation had him say "Thank you, O great Puck" instead, which makes much more sense. There are also no added, useless obscenities, and each character has a talking style to match their personality. I didn't spot anything as out of place as "groovy", but I did notice that in volume 15 when the bird pecked Puck off, Puck said, "I doth care nevermore!", which is a reference to Edgar Allan Poe's Raven poem. I don't know what a literal translation of that was. That was the only reference that stuck out like a sore thumb.

I appreciate the fact that Chris Warner came on this board, listened to the fans, and addressed their complaints. The reprints are much better (I didn't notice any grammatical errors), None of my pages were shifted over (although there were a few instances in which the tip of the letters did go off the top of the page, but I had no trouble reading what they were saying), and the SFX are translated but are virtually invisible in all of the latest volumes. Unfortunately, they were very conspicuous for volumes 12-14 and that was not fixed in the reprint, which makes reading it a pain in the ass. I don't blame him for leaving the forum, but I'd really wish that he'd come back.

If you've already purchased the volumes before, you don't have to buy the DH ones if you hate them so much. Quality does improve through reprints, so wait a while if slight light tint or a slight dark tint bother you. Amazon sells them for $11.16 each. If you order them in at least bundles of 3, you can get free shipping which usually arrives in a week; that's the cheapest method I have seen so far for getting the books.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on August 08, 2007, 04:24:28 AM
Anyway, I also am grumbling about picking up the missing volumes, since I know I'll ultimately do it.

I broke down a lot earlier than I thought I would and purchased Vol. 13 and onward.  I feel a bit (well, more than a bit) like a hypocrite for doing so, especially after I wrote that email to Chris Warner way back when.  The SFX boxes are pretty distracting in volumes 12-14, but from 15 onward they've done a really good job of making them as unnoticeable as possible.  If they ever fix this issue in volumes 12-14, I'll definitely buy those again, as their new way of handling the SFX is a major improvement, but I have no idea if they plan on doing so.  Aside from one instance of "grooviness" the translation has seemed pretty solid from volumes 4-18.  The first 3 volumes definitely have the weakest translations, but I don't recall them being all that bad.  I'll have to go back and reread them, as it's been a while.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: pippin22 on August 08, 2007, 11:24:51 PM
Dark Horse should have been translating SFX and putting borders on the covers since the beginning...  They should be more professional.  "Dhey're idiots!"

Regardless, I bought volumes 1-15 and can't wait to read them.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Peregrine_Falcon on August 09, 2007, 04:50:38 PM
Quote
If they ever fix this issue in volumes 12-14, I'll definitely buy those again

Me too.

I hope they don't use the metal frame for every volume. Black would be perfect for volume. 19. I liked Hakusensha's choices for colored frames but I don't understand why they decided to go back to the white frames later on.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on August 09, 2007, 05:22:27 PM
I hope they don't use the metal frame for every volume. Black would be perfect for volume 19.

Same, that would be pretty boring.  Unfortunately, there's no way to tell yet, since the final cover art for DH's release of Vol. 19 isn't up on their site yet.  The artwork for the volume's cover is up, but it's missing the DH logos and text.

I liked Hakusensha's choices for colored frames but I don't understand why they decided to go back to the white frames later on.

Personally, I always liked the white frames better. :guts:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Griffith on August 10, 2007, 01:20:16 AM
Thanks for the info guys, especially Peregrine_Falcon. If anyone else has more to say or simply an opinion on the likelihood of these changes ever being made to previous volumes (like, judgeing by industry norms, Id' guess not likely), I'd love to hear it.

Until then, I guess I'll continue to wait.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Funkmasta Zeph on August 13, 2007, 04:41:27 AM
Volume 18 was a pleasure to read, not only did I not notice any of the sfx trans, but when I did want to decode the japanese sfx I was able to immediatly reference the trans and continue on without trouble.

Its also nice to see 18 (almost inarguably the most explicit volume in the entire series) completely uncensored.
The entire pagan orgy episode alone is enough to make most companies balk, but DH delivers.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: CnC on August 13, 2007, 04:47:01 AM
Well it seems he's placated the masses, wonder if Chris will come out of hiding :)
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Griffith on August 13, 2007, 02:44:31 PM
Maybe I should remove some of the offensive material from our past interactions, you know, like the stuff he didn't quote directly (actually, I could even alter that to make it not seem so bad, so he'll think he overreacted at the time). :carcus:

It's funny, that timing still amazes me. When I posted that BS, honestly just to clown around with Rane, it never entered my mind that Chris Warner would actually read it and you know, take offense. Of course, then he showed up at like the exact moment I posted it, so it was already too late to remove it! It honestly started as just a stupid joke that got blown way out of proportion due to circumstance. And of course, my damage control was excellent, "Oh yeah, you don't like it? Well, screw you!"

I still remember the shock as me and Aaz were watching him watching the thread knowing there was no turning back. :idea:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on August 13, 2007, 05:31:19 PM
On the internet, everyone can hear you scream.  :void:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Griffith on August 13, 2007, 06:24:34 PM
I remember you came out in full support of me too; in hindsight, probably not such a good idea. :guts:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on August 13, 2007, 06:30:22 PM
I remember you came out in full support of me too; in hindsight, probably not such a good idea. :guts:
Ugh, I knew you'd take the above post that way. Can't we just laugh about it now? Keeeeyrist.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Griffith on August 13, 2007, 06:34:21 PM
I thought we were? It was kind of my Billy Carter moment. :carcus:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Peregrine_Falcon on August 16, 2007, 12:48:08 AM
The preview for volume 19 is already up.

http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/preview.php?theid=14-354 (http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/preview.php?theid=14-354)
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: CnC on August 16, 2007, 02:16:58 AM
Quote
The bewildered and near-mad Casca, former captain of the Band of the Hawk-and former lover of Guts, the Black Swordsman-has been adopted by Midland's pagan cults as a witch, due to her demonic Mark of Sacrifice. But the Holy Iron Chain Knights' campaign to rid the kingdom of heretics by any means necessary puts Casca in mortal danger, and Guts is having none of it. But all parties involved may end up with more than they bargained for as demonic spirits, drawn to Casca's brand, begin to possess the heretics and unleash the forces of hell. But hell hath no fury like the Black Swordsman!

 :griff:   :void:


... :miura:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on August 16, 2007, 02:28:47 AM
Aside from the cheese-ball last line, and "forces of hell" nonsense, I thought it was a pretty accurate and succinct summary.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: SaiyajinNoOuji on August 16, 2007, 08:32:00 AM
Yea, that really isn't all that bad at all.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Griffith on August 16, 2007, 04:34:33 PM
Yeah, and I don't even mind the Hell stuff, and that cheesy Black Swordsman line even tickled me. :carcus:

Anyway, why did it take them so long to realize you could just insert the sound effects in small text with a tiny border instead of a gigantic, intrusive white box? Did they not discover the stroke layer feature in photoshop? Oh well, they only ruined like the three most important volumes anyway, right? =)
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Peregrine_Falcon on August 16, 2007, 05:45:58 PM
Quote
Anyway, why did it take them so long to realize you could just insert the sound effects in small text with a tiny border instead of a gigantic, intrusive white box?

So why didn't you mention it when Chris Warner was trying to figure out what the hell to do, if it was so obvious? Thousands of people read this forum, and tons posted on this topic, yet with all their brains combined, none could come to this solution. A couple of guys at DH figured out what all of them couldn't.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: CnC on August 16, 2007, 06:27:48 PM
So why didn't you mention it when Chris Warner was trying to figure out what the hell to do, if it was so obvious? Thousands of people read this forum, and tons posted on this topic, yet with all their brains combined, none could come to this solution. A couple of guys at DH figured out what all of them couldn't.


Easy there..  There were plenty of possible solutions brought up.  Read the thread.  Chris' stance was that this is the way it was going to be and there wasn't any changing it.  I'm sure he'd agree he heard quite an earful on the subject.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Peregrine_Falcon on August 16, 2007, 06:33:40 PM
Quote
Easy there..  There were plenty of possible solutions brought up.  Read the thread.

I knew about the suggested appendix, doing away with the translations all together, and editing the pictures digitally (mentioned by Chris Warner). What I'm saying is that the particular solution, which made everyone happy, that DH came up with was not so obvious to everyone.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: CnC on August 16, 2007, 06:38:39 PM
What I'm saying is that the particular solution that DH came up with was not so obvious to everyone.

And what I'm saying is that you're giving too much credit for that solution. 

-"Hey guys, heres a thought: how about we NOT stamp huge boxes all over the artwork"   

-"Genius"
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Griffith on August 16, 2007, 07:02:23 PM
I appreciate your point Peregrine, we, and I in particular, give Dark Horse a lot of shit and little credit, but when it comes to this specific situation, I don't think it's misgiven. Suggestions were made to Mr. Warner, some of which he followed apparently, like expediting the releases, which I could obviously care less about; I'm more concerned with the quality of what I'll have to live with thereafter than instant gratification. And better suggestions concerning sound translations were made than what he and the guys at DH initially implemented. Those last two points in a nutshell are why I find it so frustrating that they botched volumes 12-14, a view I think you share, before implementing a decent solution. Never should have happened.

Here's Mr. Warner's own summary of suggestions he received, which you alluded to:

Specifically, here's what I've been told we should do with sound effects translations by Berserk readers:

1. re-letter the sound effects in english

2. run small translations right next to the effects

3. only run translations in panel gutters (despite the fact that some pages/panels don't have any)

4. print translations only in an index

5. don't translate effects at all

See? There's nothing to this job!

We're making adjustments to this as we go, but literally, and I ain't kidding, no matter what we do, somebody won't like it.

Where's the suggestion about big white boxes? :???:

Anyway, his point being DH couldn't make everybody happy, but my question was, so their solution was to essentially make everybody unhappy with a worst case scenario? It was a terrible solution, maybe the worst possible and comically so (made for some funny avatars though =), and hindsight hasn't changed that, only made it more clear. Also, the current solution is hardly radical or inventive, they've simply combined points 2 and 3 in tandem, common methods that were already in practice by pros and amateur scanlators alike (they were basically getting shown up by theHawks and EG, not good), I just wish they had done it like that in the first place. So I'm not going to pat them on the back for doing their jobs, and inconsistently at that.

Look, I'm trying to lay off Dark Horse, appreciate that they're the only show in town professionally translating Berserk into English, that they're trying. I acknowledge that, I like the look of the new volumes, and thus it's rekindled my consumer interest; I'm not unreasonable. But, the only way for me to fully enjoy some of their previous volumes is to overlook, or just plain ignore, the major flaws in the presentation. That usually wouldn't be a problem, but some of them have been made literally impossible to overlook (like an Eclipse Ceremony where white boxes attack). Anyway, I can even ignore that, and I will if it comes to it, but my point is, I shouldn't have to, and I'm not going to pretend I like it.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Peregrine_Falcon on August 17, 2007, 02:10:10 AM
Quote
And what I'm saying is that you're giving too much credit for that solution. 

-"Hey guys, heres a thought: how about we NOT stamp huge boxes all over the artwork"   

-"Genius"

I think it was a great solution, but that does not mean that I think they are an ingenious, flawless company and that I love every decision they have made. I agree, the SFX boxes was the worst idea out of all of their options and they were foolish to keep ruining the most important volumes.

Quote
I find it so frustrating that they botched volumes 12-14, a view I think you share, before implementing a decent solution. Never should have happened.[...]Also, the current solution is hardly radical or inventive, they've simply combined points 2 and 3 in tandem, common methods that were already in practice by pros and amateur scanlators alike (they were basically getting shown up by theHawks and EG, not good), I just wish they had done it like that in the first place. So I'm not going to pat them on the back for doing their jobs, and inconsistently at that.

I did not know that 2 and 3 were common practices. I still give them a pat on the back because they found and combined these two methods to make the best method for translating sound effects that I hope becomes the standard for translated manga in the future; it was better than anything else suggested here. People can understand what the sound effects are made (a downside to when professionals do not translate at all) and at the same time, the artwork remains intact (a flaw of when professionals digitally edit the image to replace the Japanese with English).

I agree, you shouldn't have to put up with the boxes. As I've said before, they should republish volumes 12-14 with fixed sound effects. I would be more than willing to pay for the new volumes, even though they shouldn't have done it to begin with.

I'll be writing Chris Warner an email. However, I doubt that one letter would sway the company, so I encourage everyone who reads this to do the same. Remember to be polite (but still make sure your criticism comes loud and clear) and concise.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Griffith on August 17, 2007, 10:23:27 AM
Hmmm, maybe I'll launch some emails about this myself (though I've never gotten more than a courtesy response from DH). After all, if I can take the time to complain, I should at least try to get something changed.

C'mon guys, how about a letter writing campaign to save Volume 13 in America? :carcus:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Peregrine_Falcon on August 17, 2007, 12:19:29 PM
Don't get discouraged by courtesy emails. Just because they don't give you a specific response doesn't mean that they don't read your letter or know what your general complaint/idea is. Take the situation between Maddox and Orbitz for example:

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=orbitz_blows (http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=orbitz_blows)
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: pippin22 on August 18, 2007, 06:31:39 PM
I hope they use frames for all the upcoming DH Berserk volumes; keeping the cover art at original size really helped (I don't think this metallic color was the best choice though)

Every volume will be a different color.

Here is what volume 19 will look like (I assume): http://www.overstock.com/Books-Movies-Music-Games/Berserk-19/2527416/product.html?ak=1

And for some odd reason, Dark Horse has the cover of volume 21 up, but not those of 19-20...: http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/profile.php?sku=14-356
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: smoke on August 19, 2007, 03:08:31 AM
Maybe they're skipping 19 and 20.

Seriously.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: pippin22 on August 19, 2007, 03:13:06 AM
Maybe they're skipping 19 and 20.

Seriously.

Yeah, that's what I heard too.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Lithrael on August 19, 2007, 04:23:35 AM
Wait, WHAT?  Skipping 19 and 20??  Seriously?  Why? 
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: handsome rakshas on August 19, 2007, 04:50:03 AM
That makes no sense whatsoever. I call bullshit! Where did you hear that?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on August 19, 2007, 06:12:17 AM
I really doubt they're skipping any volumes.  Why would they?  What would be the point?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: CnC on August 19, 2007, 06:34:30 AM
I really doubt they're skipping any volumes.  Why would they?  What would be the point?

Nah I dont' buy it.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Griffith on August 19, 2007, 01:24:43 PM
Not enough room in the margins of 19 and 20 for sound effects: CANCELLED. :carcus:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: pippin22 on August 19, 2007, 06:39:12 PM
Chris Warner said that Dark Horse was unable to obtain the right to bring them to America due to copyright complications.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on August 19, 2007, 07:00:35 PM
Chris Warner said that Dark Horse was unable to obtain the right to bring them to America due to copyright complications.

Sounds like bullshit to me. Where did he say so? Why doesn't it appear on this page (http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/profile.php?sku=14-354)? Don't make up stuff like that please.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on August 19, 2007, 07:01:47 PM
Sounds like bullshit to me. Where did he say so? Why doesn't it appear on this page (http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/profile.php?sku=14-354)?

Exactly.  They've already set release dates for the next two volumes anyway.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: pippin22 on August 19, 2007, 07:24:47 PM
I emailed Chris about it...  cool guy...  This is all I know, from what he told me:

Hi, Pippin!
   Chris Warner from Dark horse here.  First off I'd like to say that you are very cool.  That last email you sent me makes me really feel like you have me by the balls.  About this volume 19-20 business, Dark Horse cannot legally bring them to America due to copyright complications. You see, our original contract with Jets Comics was for volumes 1-18, and when we were ready to renew our contract for volumes 19-31 they said that we could not get 19-20, because some major shit went down.  We do not know details about this "major shit" that allegedly went down.  Thank you for your email and concern, remember you are the best Berserk fan.  You are way better than that Aazealh guy.  Let me know if you need any Berserk merchandise, I'll get it for you for free.
                  

               Your pal,
                  Chris Warner


Straight from the Horse's mouth.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: CnC on August 19, 2007, 07:27:15 PM
Hi, Pippin!
   Chris Warner from Dark horse here.  First off I'd like to say that you are very cool.

Nice try, though.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Funkmasta Zeph on August 20, 2007, 11:28:00 PM
Not to mention that theres already translated preview pages up for 19.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on August 28, 2007, 08:55:56 AM
Got bored tonight and wanted to see how long it would take DH to catch up to the current eps. So, here's the projected volume release schedule, if things continue unaltered:


2007

19 - sept 26
20 - nov 21

2008
21 - jan 23
22 - mar
23 - may
24 - july
25 - sept
26 - nov

2009
27 - jan
28 - mar
29 - may
30 - july
31 - sept
32 - nov

2010
33 - jan
34  (:isidro:) - mar
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Jaze1618 on August 28, 2007, 08:21:24 PM
are you suggesting that in a little under 3 years miura will only two more volumes completed and not 6?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on August 28, 2007, 08:26:04 PM
are you suggesting that in a little under 3 years miura will only two more volumes completed and not 6?
I just didn't see the need to speculate too far. I worked with what we know to be facts.  :carcus:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Jaze1618 on September 25, 2007, 03:32:37 PM
What happened to all the recent posts in this thread??!

Anyways today is the 25th. The 25th was listed for the release of volume 19 by Dark Horse but it seems that they have changed it to the 26th. The means that zanadu in seattle will probably have it by the time I get off work today. I've been waiting for the next 4 volumes for a long time and now they are finally upon us!
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Jaze1618 on September 27, 2007, 05:15:55 AM
Alright I picked up volume 19 about 12 hours ago. Read it 2x. Of course the translations are never perfect enough for me and in this volume my biggest gripe is guts always referring to rapegoat as "the pseudo-apostle".  Now before I can be accused of being in favor of him being referred to as rapegoat, that is just a an early pubescent fan term I've heard on other message boards. My gripe with Pseudo-Apostle seems like something that the translator could only chose to have guts say it based on their knowledge of events to come in volumes 20 & 21. And I'm sure thats exactly how it came to be. Done
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on September 27, 2007, 05:17:10 AM
My gripe with Pseudo-Apostle seems like something that the translator could only chose to have guts say it based on their knowledge of events to come in volumes 20 & 21. And I'm sure thats exactly how it came to be. Done
Can I see your translator license?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Jaze1618 on September 27, 2007, 05:21:46 AM
Holy Crap that was quick. I barely had time to look through one other thread.

Also, I wasn't a big fan of  "The Iron castle of guts". Don't get me wrong though, Volume 19 is more beautiful then I could ever know simply looking at electronic scans. Dark Horse did 99.8% right by my tastes and I know that there is much more work that goes into this sort of thing then I could know.

Hurry up and release Volumes 20,21 & 22 Dark Horse! (Without compromising the translation please)
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on September 27, 2007, 05:27:12 AM
Anyway, I looked it up and Guts does indeed refer to the goat pseudo-aspotle as a pseudo-apostle. He calls it a "Shito modoki"  (pseudo-apostle) on page 110 in the japanese edition of volume 19.

I don't even have a translator license, but I know my Berserk terminology  :badbone:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Griffith on September 27, 2007, 05:35:47 AM
Score one for Dark Horse.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Jaze1618 on September 27, 2007, 05:39:54 AM
Ok I submit to you and your terminology, could you be bothered to check page 135 in volume 19 as well? He is battling with serpico on the cliff, commenting on how it is more of a challenge then the pseudo-apostle, is that true to translation as well? No rush on this one
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on September 27, 2007, 05:47:07 AM
Ok I submit to you and your terminology, could you be bothered to check page 135 in volume 19 as well? He is battling with serpico on the cliff, commenting on how it is more of a challenge then the pseudo-apostle, is that true to translation as well? No rush on this one
He uses the same term again there, yeah.

BTW, how are the sound effects this time around? Subtle, not so? Still in the margins and without boxes, I take it?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Jaze1618 on September 27, 2007, 06:01:52 AM
It's interesting that you ask. The SFX were much more noticeable to me in this volume. I would guess its because there are many margins in this volume and several have SFX in them. Easy to spot vs. the ones that are actually in the picture which can be difficult to spot unless I am looking specifically for them.  No white boxes and they blend in well.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Scorpio on September 27, 2007, 06:22:30 AM
So the answer is that when they are located in the artwork they are still very unintrusive, yet DH puts them in the gutters whenever they can?

I think its about time I gave DH another try then.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on September 27, 2007, 08:35:51 AM
Now before I can be accused of being in favor of him being referred to as rapegoat, that is just a an early pubescent fan term I've heard on other message boards.

I'd really appreciate if you didn't use it here though. You know, just in case mental retardation could become contagious someday.

My gripe with Pseudo-Apostle seems like something that the translator could only chose to have guts say it based on their knowledge of events to come in volumes 20 & 21.

Wrong. Guts had encountered pseudo-apostles before: when he fought the Count (who made Zondark into one), then Rosine's minions. And of course, Guts does indeed use the term in the original Japanese like Walter confirmed. I'm pretty sure I had explained this before, too.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Jaze1618 on September 27, 2007, 04:12:50 PM
Well thats actually great information to know. I can't help but wonder if guts also uses the term to describe them in the English version. For some reason taht term seems very unfamiliar to me. Can't explain it.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on September 27, 2007, 04:29:26 PM
Well thats actually great information to know. I can't help but wonder if guts also uses the term to describe them in the English version. For some reason taht term seems very unfamiliar to me. Can't explain it.

Well we've certainly used it on the forum before. But to answer your question, he doesn't actually use that term until his fight with the goat. I guess after meeting enough of them he decided on a word to describe them.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: jackson_hurley on September 27, 2007, 09:24:14 PM
hum in episode 149 meeting again (the reunion in the dark horse release) there is something odd.. in page sixteen panel three there is one bubble that says "guts..." i figured it's Isidro saying that but the bubble point at casca?! that is not possible is it? aaz enlighten me on that pleaaaaase! i was wondering if in the original jap. release if the bubble point at Isidro or what?

Edit: forget it it's Puck i just didnt notice him at first in casca's shirt! silly me!
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: ironman on October 03, 2007, 09:08:37 AM
Someday if i'm in america i'll buy all the darkhorse releases.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: avidwriter on October 04, 2007, 12:15:12 AM
Did 19 ship. I had it on preorder but it still says preorder...Just wondering if its them or if DH had a delay. Thanks.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: jackson_hurley on October 04, 2007, 12:23:59 AM
they are definitely out i bought mine like the 27th of september! maybe it got delayed in the mail or something I'm sure you'll get it soon
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on October 04, 2007, 05:24:01 PM
they are definitely out i bought mine like the 27th of september! maybe it got delayed in the mail or something I'm sure you'll get it soon

Yeah, I got mine from the local Kinokuniya Bookstore on Monday.  I don't order them from Amazon.com anymore, due to the length of time it usually takes to ship them.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: avidwriter on October 05, 2007, 04:59:44 PM
Did 19 ship. I had it on preorder but it still says preorder...Just wondering if its them or if DH had a delay. Thanks.

Ok it shipped. Seems they just ship late, as per the usual. I get mine 3 weeks after everyone else.  :judo:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: jackson_hurley on October 05, 2007, 05:41:23 PM
Ok it shipped. Seems they just ship late, as per the usual. I get mine 3 weeks after everyone else.  :judo:

sadly these shits happen! i remember one of the first volumes got delayed for like 3 weeks i was going crazy considering that i wanted to know what happended (it was during the golden age and i was hype to know the real story instead of the anime(yeah i got into berserk because of the anime and wanted more like a lot of people!) anyway hope you enjoyed vol. 19 so far! cant wait for vol.20!
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: A.C on October 11, 2007, 06:46:48 AM
i'm glad they translated it as "pseudo-apostle" because the first time i read through Berserk i failed to notice the Egg-apostle's attack on the baphomet guy and Mozgus. i thought they were real apostles and so Mozgus confused the hell out of me.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on October 11, 2007, 08:08:03 AM
i'm glad they translated it as "pseudo-apostle" because the first time i read through Berserk i failed to notice the Egg-apostle's attack on the baphomet guy and Mozgus. i thought they were real apostles and so Mozgus confused the hell out of me.

Well I sure hope you're glad they translate terms correctly, that's the least you should expect. It's surprising that you missed the Beherit-Apostle's role in the pseudo-apostles' transformation though, even if you didn't have a good translation. For Mozgus in particular it's pretty explicit.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: CnC on October 11, 2007, 11:56:20 AM
I agree with aaz in that I don't think thats much of a translation issue.  That kind of thing is pretty easily picked up in the pictures (unless they've been covered by sfx  :troll:)
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: avidwriter on October 11, 2007, 08:44:51 PM
I got 19 and besides a few "dents" which you can only see in the right angle of light its fine. I didn't see any page tears or anything. One page was pretty far into the "crease" Guts says "Answer" and you cant see the "A" unless you really open the book which I didnt want to, I like to have crease free manga : ) I'm happy with Darkhorse so far, the SFX are not noticable, I never really saw them unless I looked for them. For me it doesnt add anything but I doubt they will remove them. Just too bad they can't go to monthly till they catch up.  :judo:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: A.C on October 15, 2007, 08:42:16 PM
i've talked with others who also missed it when reading through this arc for the first time. i think it's because it's the first time you see a pseudo-apostle being made so you don't really know what's going on, plus that many has the suspicion that Mozgus is an Apostle right of the bat when they see his weirdly shaped head and later his torture room. at least i know i did.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Funkmasta Zeph on October 25, 2007, 01:22:38 PM
i've talked with others who also missed it when reading through this arc for the first time. i think it's because it's the first time you see a pseudo-apostle being made so you don't really know what's going on, plus that many has the suspicion that Mozgus is an Apostle right of the bat when they see his weirdly shaped head and later his torture room. at least i know i did.

But its not the first time. Not even close

Not only did we see it with the Count and Zondark, but we JUST saw it with Rosine and the elf-kids/bug-men.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Peregrine_Falcon on October 26, 2007, 08:17:57 PM
I think the new version of the cover for volume 20 looks MUCH better than the older version
Old Version Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1593077459/ref=s9_flash_asin_image_4/102-2650649-6936135?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-1&pf_rd_r=1Y2MFN2CBBQQ6T0DASE5&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=292858701&pf_rd_i=507846)
New Version
http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/profile.php?sku=14-355 (http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/profile.php?sku=14-355)
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Jaze1618 on October 26, 2007, 11:53:20 PM
less than 1 month to go hells yells!
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Jaze1618 on November 21, 2007, 06:13:40 PM
Ok, so Seattle Zanadu's all across the city did not get Berserk 20 in today. Usually their so good about having it in on DarkHorse's release date too. Phooey. At least we got a new episode today. Thanks Scanbot. Until next week Vol 20.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: pippin22 on November 21, 2007, 07:19:28 PM
The release date for volume 20 has been moved to the 28th.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Jaze1618 on November 22, 2007, 03:36:20 AM
Ah, I see those sly devils.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Jaze1618 on December 02, 2007, 01:52:16 PM
picked up volume 20 on Thursday. Pretty good job Darkhorse.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Peregrine_Falcon on December 08, 2007, 08:57:52 PM
I really hope that this is just a copying error that they will fix before the release.

Original
http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/images/4592137213/sr=8-1/qid=1197150573/ref=dp_image_0?ie=UTF8&n=465392&s=books&qid=1197150573&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/images/4592137213/sr=8-1/qid=1197150573/ref=dp_image_0?ie=UTF8&n=465392&s=books&qid=1197150573&sr=8-1)

Dark Horse:
http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/profile_popup.php?sku=14-938 (http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/profile_popup.php?sku=14-938)
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Scorpio on December 10, 2007, 02:12:38 AM
What do you know, Guts' right eye is brand new again!

I really doubt they will keep the flipped image for the final printing, though one has to wonder why it was ever flipped in the first place.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Funkmasta Zeph on December 10, 2007, 06:55:06 AM
I really hope that this is just a copying error that they will fix before the release.

Original
http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/images/4592137213/sr=8-1/qid=1197150573/ref=dp_image_0?ie=UTF8&n=465392&s=books&qid=1197150573&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/images/4592137213/sr=8-1/qid=1197150573/ref=dp_image_0?ie=UTF8&n=465392&s=books&qid=1197150573&sr=8-1)

Dark Horse:
http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/profile_popup.php?sku=14-938 (http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/profile_popup.php?sku=14-938)

Send them an E-mail just in case..
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Jaze1618 on December 10, 2007, 03:27:31 PM
if they thought it was ok to flip it without considering his eye....
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Proj2501 on December 11, 2007, 08:44:31 PM
I just saw this mistake on my own just now. I'm happy to see others were on the case long before me.

<3 uz all. :casca:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: alex333x on December 18, 2007, 09:30:38 PM
Does anyone know if DH will include the posters in volume 22 and every volume after that one?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Peregrine_Falcon on December 18, 2007, 09:43:10 PM
I doubt it. If Dark Horse isn't even willing to make the cover for 23 point the right way, I don't think that they would go out of their way to include a poster; that's expensive. If you read one of Chris Warner's earlier posts, he estimates that 97% of people who buy the DH releases of Berserk are 'casual readers', or people who wouldn't know or care about posters in the later volumes. But I hope that I'm wrong.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on December 19, 2007, 12:18:21 AM
I doubt it. If Dark Horse isn't even willing to make the cover for 23 point the right way, I don't think that they would go out of their way to include a poster
I really don't think that's a logical conclusion, at all. That being said, I also don't expect to see the posters in these releases. Then again, I've been pleasantly surprised by many recent changes in DH policy, so I could be proven wrong.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Peregrine_Falcon on December 19, 2007, 01:51:15 AM
I really don't think that's a logical conclusion, at all.
I know that it looks like a stretch, but I feel that ignoring a glaring mistake like a flipped cover where Guts has a damaged left eye and metal right arm indicates that they like to cut more corners than usual. If they would let something that obvious slip by then I don't see why they would try to fix something much less obvious, such as an included poster, for an American 'casual reader' who will most likely never see the Japanese editions but who has seen thousands of pictures of Guts with the damaged eye on the other side.

But they do make some good choices, so I'm not completely pessimistic.

I'll just have to write more letters, convince other people to write letters, and hope for the best.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: BiQ-- on December 19, 2007, 09:23:03 PM
They seem to have changed the cover image to look correct now...
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Peregrine_Falcon on December 19, 2007, 09:37:33 PM
Not only does the cover point the right way, it also doesn't look bleached.

How the image used to look:
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff271/Shaheen_010/14938.jpg (http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff271/Shaheen_010/14938.jpg)

How it looks now:
http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/profile_popup.php?sku=14-938 (http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/profile_popup.php?sku=14-938)
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Jaze1618 on January 18, 2008, 05:01:17 AM
Less than a week until sweet sweet volume 21!
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: AMaineKillingFrost on January 27, 2008, 02:09:01 AM
Some of the pages in my volumes are cropped wrong so that the text is sometimes cut off or something,you can allways tell what their saying, but half the word is off the page. I've even had a word on someones face. I don't know if anyone else has had this problem, but these are the Dark Horse releases.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on January 27, 2008, 08:59:39 AM
Some of the pages in my volumes are cropped wrong so that the text is sometimes cut off or something,you can allways tell what their saying, but half the word is off the page. I've even had a word on someones face. I don't know if anyone else has had this problem, but these are the Dark Horse releases.

It's happened to others as well.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Draulix on February 25, 2008, 01:35:53 AM
I'm fluent in Japanese and English so there was really no reason for me to get the DH releases any how as I have all the Japan releases of the manga. Though I'm very curious to know IF the art in its self is Flipped. And by that I mean if taking the JPN art as the original, in the DH releases are they Flipped so that it accommodates for the English text to fit in well with reading left to right as opposed to the JPN text from Top to bottom, left to right? I know its been done for the manga "Parasite" by Hitoshi Iwaaki when they translated it to English.

I got the idea from Peregrine_Falcon's post with the 2 cover arts and you can totally tell by the direction of Griffith's horse facing left and right.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Peregrine_Falcon on February 25, 2008, 03:13:16 AM
Though I'm very curious to know IF the art in its self is Flipped. And by that I mean if taking the JPN art as the original, in the DH releases are they Flipped so that it accommodates for the English text to fit in well with reading left to right as opposed to the JPN text from Top to bottom, left to right? I know its been done for the manga "Parasite" by Hitoshi Iwaaki when they translated it to English.

The art in the book is not flipped; Guts still has a busted right eye and mechanical left arm. The only thing that's left to right orientation is the english text. The reader reads each bubble (and SFX translation) in a left to right fashion but transitions from panel to panel and page to page in a right to left fashion.

This should give you an idea:
http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/preview.php?theid=12-705&p=4 (http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/preview.php?theid=12-705&p=4)
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Draulix on February 26, 2008, 01:34:26 AM
Good that they keep it that way for Berserk, I thought it was totally retarted that they flipped it for the "Parasite" managa when in the JPN, one of the main character's name is derived from being right handed and called "Miggy" as in "righty" for English. But then in the ENG they translated it to "Lefty."
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Funkmasta Zeph on February 28, 2008, 12:35:52 AM
It's actually very rare these days for english translatd manga to be flipped.
It's industry standard now.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: avidwriter on February 29, 2008, 05:29:22 PM
It's actually very rare these days for english translatd manga to be flipped.
It's industry standard now.

It would be useless and stupid.

I got Volume 21 today, finally. Good volume. Dark Horse did a good job with the SFX and even put a * at one point with a translation for a word. I'd still like to see reprints of the volumes where they did the SFX terrible but its not a total loss. Its also all I have really since I don't know Japanese and doubt I'll ever be able to learn it to the point of reading.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Peregrine_Falcon on March 04, 2008, 06:34:54 PM
I emailed Dark Horse. They have confirmed that:
Quote
Starting with volume 22, each book will have a small, two-sided poster/pinup, just like in the Japanese editions.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on March 04, 2008, 06:36:59 PM
That's pretty cool. Not all companies do that.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on March 04, 2008, 07:46:36 PM
Nice!  It's awesome that they're doing that, as I had assumed they wouldn't be included. :guts:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: handsome rakshas on March 04, 2008, 08:09:34 PM
That's pretty awesome, I give them credit for that. At least they're trying.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on March 04, 2008, 09:27:47 PM
Quote from: Dark Horse representative
Starting with volume 22, each book will have a small, two-sided poster/pinup, just like in the Japanese editions
... in black and white  :troll:

I wonder what portion of Berserk fandom, internationally and otherwise, actually tear/cut out the poster and put it on a wall. I know all mine are kept safe inside the manga. That's not to say I don't love these things. I just genuinely would like to know if Im being overly cautious about my Berserk manga   :serpico:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on March 04, 2008, 09:44:24 PM
I wonder what portion of Berserk fandom, internationally and otherwise, actually tear/cut out the poster and put it on a wall. I know all mine are kept safe inside the manga.

Same for mine. Even for the volumes I have in double or triple. I probably never could bring myself to do it. It's like tearing a page from the Bible! :judo:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on March 04, 2008, 09:45:01 PM
... in black and white  :troll:

DO NOT WANT!!! :miura:

I wonder what portion of Berserk fandom, internationally and otherwise, actually tear/cut out the poster and put it on a wall. I know all mine are kept safe inside the manga. That's not to say I don't love these things. I just genuinely would like to know if Im being overly cautious about my Berserk manga   :serpico:

Haha, I don't think you're being overly cautious; I do the same thing with mine.  Then again, many people consider me to be overly cautious... :ganishka:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: avidwriter on March 05, 2008, 02:27:28 AM
... in black and white  :troll:

I wonder what portion of Berserk fandom, internationally and otherwise, actually tear/cut out the poster and put it on a wall. I know all mine are kept safe inside the manga. That's not to say I don't love these things. I just genuinely would like to know if Im being overly cautious about my Berserk manga   :serpico:

Its possible that they will have the poster attached in a *can't think of the word* way that it'll be easier to tear it out.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on March 05, 2008, 03:17:37 AM
Its possible that they will have the poster attached in a *can't think of the word* way that it'll be easier to tear it out.
I believe the word you're looking for is: perforated tear-sheet.  :carcus:

And btw, I was just kidding about the posters being printed in black and white. Not sure if the troll emoticon made that clear or not...
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on March 05, 2008, 04:36:36 AM
And btw, I was just kidding about the posters being printed in black and white. Not sure if the troll emoticon made that clear or not...

Seemed clear to me. :guts:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: avidwriter on March 05, 2008, 04:57:16 AM
I believe the word you're looking for is: perforated tear-sheet.  :carcus:

And btw, I was just kidding about the posters being printed in black and white. Not sure if the troll emoticon made that clear or not...

Yea thats the word. Also yes I knew you were kidding about the B&W.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Griffith on March 05, 2008, 06:07:59 AM
I'd rather they save money by not including posters, which I also never remove, and put that towards fixing the reprints of the SFX Box edition volumes (or just upping the overall paper/ink quality, especially since the volumes get smaller). I would like to buy those particular volumes someday, but I'm waiting on that, possibly for the rest of my life. =)
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Funkmasta Zeph on March 05, 2008, 07:23:50 AM
That's goddamned awesome of them, the posters will be much appreciated.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Peregrine_Falcon on March 05, 2008, 05:27:43 PM
I'd rather they save money by not including posters, which I also never remove, and put that towards fixing the reprints of the SFX Box edition volumes (or just upping the overall paper/ink quality, especially since the volumes get smaller).

They're not broke; they could spend money on both.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: alex333x on March 24, 2008, 06:44:01 AM
Thats some great news about the posters!!

I was scared about that little thing, it wouldnt be THAT bad if they hadn't included the posters, but I really wanted to know, now I can sleep again!

Also, I think more than half of the people that are really fans, leave the posters on the manga/book...it looks better there and you don't risk to scratch the poster or the book itself
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: jackson_hurley on March 31, 2008, 02:21:30 PM
well i bought my copy of volume 22 last friday and indeed the mini poster was inside in color! it's really beautiful. at fist i thought it was removable but when i saw it was stuck in it i decided to keep it inside!

do all the volumes after that have one?! that'd be awesome!
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on March 31, 2008, 02:50:50 PM
do all the volumes after that have one?! that'd be awesome!

All the ones from here on out will. :serpico:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: avidwriter on March 31, 2008, 04:52:01 PM
well i bought my copy of volume 22 last friday and indeed the mini poster was inside in color! it's really beautiful. at fist i thought it was removable but when i saw it was stuck in it i decided to keep it inside!

do all the volumes after that have one?! that'd be awesome!

Damn you got 22 already? I probably won't be seeing mine till the middle of April.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Jaze1618 on March 31, 2008, 06:42:37 PM
Last Friday is impressive,

I got it on Saturday and Minus a few translation issues, It's still my favorite volume, in fact I learned something that I never knew before at the fault of bad translations. HUZZAH!
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on March 31, 2008, 07:10:47 PM
Minus a few translation issues

What translation issues did you see?  I really hope it's not more "grooviness" on the part of Dark Horse.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Jaze1618 on April 01, 2008, 01:23:01 PM
I can't recall at this very moment but it's nothing like that. Usually just personal preferences to other translations I'm fonder of, but I don't even have a grounds to know if they can be said to be more correct then the Dark Horse translations, they're just the ones I fell in love with when I first read the series.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on April 01, 2008, 06:24:17 PM
I just picked up my copy and it looks like they're calling the "Millenium Falcon Arc" the "Hawk of the Millenium Empire Arc."  Is this in any way a more accurate translation or, at the very least, a somewhat plausible one?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on April 01, 2008, 06:47:20 PM
Nope. The furigana for the arc title clearly says: MI-RI-NI-A-MU FA-RU-CO-N. (checks manga)  Yep.  And, ya know, it's not that crazy of a title, since it's used in Star Wars... Come to think of it, maybe that's why they can't use it, because it's licensed by Lucasarts or something?  :???: Still, this is a pretty hamfisted translation. Wordier than the literal translation too...

Furthermore, as we've discussed here many times, since Griffith's incarnation at Albion, he's referred to as Taka, but in furigana it's read: Falcon. I think DH may hit a few roadblocks down the road with this one, since Miura is consistent about the change.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on April 01, 2008, 06:53:45 PM
And, ya know, it's not that crazy of a title, since it's used in Star Wars... Come to think of it, maybe that's why they can't use it, because it's licensed by Lucasarts or something?  :???: Still, this is a pretty hamfisted translation. Wordier than the literal translation too...

That could be, or else they didn't want to imply a connection.  Ugh, lame.

Furthermore, as we've discussed here many times, since Griffith's incarnation at Albion, he's referred to as Taka, but in furigana it's read: Falcon. I think DH may hit a few roadblocks down the road with this one, since Miura is consistent about the change.

Yeah, with the Chapter of Falconia, especially.  I'm guessing they stayed with "Hawk" to avoid confusing any American readers who aren't in the know.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Jaze1618 on April 01, 2008, 10:02:08 PM
Thanks for bringing this up Rhombaad, that was the one translation I forgot about that really does bug me. Especially after reading Walter's reply.

Walter, can you link me to a discussion about "taka" and the furigana for falcon.

Sincerely,
Jaze1618
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on April 01, 2008, 11:23:33 PM
Thanks for bringing this up Rhombaad, that was the one translation I forgot about that really does bug me. Especially after reading Walter's reply.

Walter, can you link me to a discussion about "taka" and the furigana for falcon.

Sincerely,
Jaze1618
Sure, http://skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=7043.msg149774#msg149774
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Jaze1618 on April 02, 2008, 03:00:04 PM
As soon as I clicked the link I got called back to my desk to attend to some business. 15 minutes later when I came back I went through that loop about 2.5 times before I discovered it for what it was.

I was hopin to find something else that might explain what you were talking about since I do know what furigana is but I don't know where it's used in it's use of falcon, and I also can only assume that taka means hawk, and not falcon but I would like to know for sure.

Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: The Perineum Falcon on April 02, 2008, 03:08:52 PM
I was hopin to find something else that might explain what you were talking about since I do know what furigana is but I don't know where it's used in it's use of falcon, and I also can only assume that taka means hawk, and not falcon but I would like to know for sure.
Well it sounds to me like you have it figured out.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on April 02, 2008, 03:11:22 PM
I was hopin to find something else that might explain what you were talking about since I do know what furigana is but I don't know where it's used in it's use of falcon, and I also can only assume that taka means hawk, and not falcon but I would like to know for sure.

Can't you use the forum's search engine (http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?action=search) and find out by yourself? Or can't you simply take Walter's word for it, if searching information is too much of an effort? Should you be spoonfed everything?

"鷹" can mean both "falcon" and "hawk". Furigana are kana that are written next to a kanji to indicate what its pronunciation is. In fact I don't even know why we use "hawk" at all anymore. I think it's pretty clear Miura intends it to be "falcon".
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on April 02, 2008, 03:52:36 PM
In fact I don't even know why we use "hawk" at all anymore. I think it's pretty clear Miura intends it to be "falcon".

Why do you think Miura switched all of a sudden after the Incarnation?  Or do you think he always meant it to be "falcon" but just wanted to reemphasize it, given the name of the new arc?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on April 02, 2008, 04:51:29 PM
Why do you think Miura switched all of a sudden after the Incarnation?  Or do you think he always meant it to be "falcon" but just wanted to reemphasize it, given the name of the new arc?

Well no switch ever occurred. While the word has sometimes been translated as "hawk" in merchandising and such, Miura himself never specified anything, and we know how unreliable other sources have been in the past (very). Falcon has always been a possibility, it just wasn't considered by the English fan community for some reason (probably because "hawk" is a more commonly used word in English).

Personally (just a guess here), I think Miura just never really cared until the Millennium Falcon arc. And why would he have, after all, when the Japanese word didn't need any second thought? It's the same in French, where "hawk" and "falcon" are both translated as "faucon".
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on April 02, 2008, 04:59:49 PM
Well no switch ever occurred. While the word has sometimes been translated as "hawk" in merchandising and such, Miura himself never specified anything, and we know how unreliable other sources have been in the past (very).

True.  Knight of Skeleton comes to mind. :SK:

Personally (just a guess here), I think Miura just never really cared until the Millennium Falcon arc. And why would he have, after all, when the Japanese word didn't need any second thought? It's the same in French, where "hawk" and "falcon" are both translated as "faucon".

Gotcha, that makes sense.  That sucks for the Dark Horse releases.  I guess they didn't look far enough ahead, so now they're stuck with "hawk".  Regardless, "Millennium Empire" makes no sense.  It sounds like something out of Hellsing.  They should have gone with "Millennium Hawk," but even that's inaccurate.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Jaze1618 on April 02, 2008, 05:11:41 PM
Well I for one am grateful that all have this discussion has transpired.

Aaz,
I hope you don't think that I wasn't not taking Walter's word for it. I was merely wanting more information to understand more on what had transpired.

I didn't specify that I thought maybe someone knew of a specific thread and that it wouldn't be any trouble to find it for me if they knew what to search for. Hell I guess could have asked if anyone knew of a specific term to search for in relation to a specific thread.

So now without further ado, Walter I am sorry for not being specific in asking for a "specific thread" that you could refer me to. Versus many unspecific threads that only had peices of discussion, like ones I was afraid would be the only ones I would find had I searched with out asking first.

Now I'm going to go search and see what I find just for the heck of it.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on April 02, 2008, 05:27:05 PM
True.  Knight of Skeleton comes to mind. :SK:

Oh, there's been worse than that... Words I dare not type!

Gotcha, that makes sense.  That sucks for the Dark Horse releases.  I guess they didn't look far enough ahead, so now they're stuck with "hawk".

Yeah, although to mitigate what Walter said, the furigana for "falcon" was never used in the text itself, only in the arc title. But then there's Falconia and such, so I don't think a doubt persists.

Regardless, "Millennium Empire" makes no sense.  It sounds like something out of Hellsing.  They should have gone with "Millennium Hawk," but even that's inaccurate.

Well, it's just that they translated the kanji without regard to the furigana. The kanji does say "thousand years empire," so their translation isn't inaccurate in that regard. However, Miura specifically named the arc that way because of the Star Wars pun, and even passed that, it sounds better in my opinion. It's also deeply relevant to Griffith's incarnation since it is a once-in-a-millennium event. I just find it strange that they'd ignore the author's will on such a detail for no reason whatsoever. It's disrespectful not only to him but to the readers as well. Maybe it's to avoid possible licensing problems, like Walter speculated, but that sounds far-fetched to me. It's really just a pun, it's pretty minor, and it can't mislead anybody on the nature of the product they purchase.

Now I just wonder how they'll translate the Chapter of Falconia. Probably "Chapter of the Hawk Capital," and that will be very sad.

I didn't specify that I thought maybe someone knew of a specific thread and that it wouldn't be any trouble to find it for me if they knew what to search for. Hell I guess could have asked if anyone knew of a specific term to search for in relation to a specific thread.

Well it's alright man but you've got to realize that we don't know threads by heart any more than you do. It's all about searching for them. :guts:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on April 02, 2008, 06:41:17 PM
Oh, there's been worse than that... Words I dare not type!

I'm not sure I want to know. :griff:

Yeah, although to mitigate what Walter said, the furigana for "falcon" was never used in the text itself, only in the arc title. But then there's Falconia and such, so I don't think a doubt persists.

Gotcha, and like you said, "taka" can mean both "falcon" and "hawk," so it's not really necessary to write the furigana above "taka" everytime it's used in the text.

Well, it's just that they translated the kanji without regard to the furigana. The kanji does say "thousand years empire," so their translation isn't inaccurate in that regard. However, Miura specifically named the arc that way because of the Star Wars pun, and even passed that, it sounds better in my opinion. It's also deeply relevant to Griffith's incarnation since it is a once-in-a-millennium event. I just find it strange that they'd ignore the author's will on such a detail for no reason whatsoever. It's disrespectful not only to him but to the readers as well. Maybe it's to avoid possible licensing problems, like Walter speculated, but that sounds far-fetched to me. It's really just a pun, it's pretty minor, and it can't mislead anybody on the nature of the product they purchase.

I can't read most kanji, so I didn't realize it actually says "thousand year empire."  And like you said, I doubt that anybody would think Berserk was connected to Star Wars or visa versa (although there are people out there who probably like the series summary Dark Horse puts on the back of the volumes...).  That just plain sucks.  At least we know what it's supposed to be, but it sucks for all the people who are new to Berserk and just follow the DH releases.

Now I just wonder how they'll translate the Chapter of Falconia. Probably "Chapter of the Hawk Capital," and that will be very sad.

Ugh.  They really need to have someone who's read all the Japanese volumes before they start working on translating them to English.  This reminds me a lot of the way ADV Films handled Rurouni Kenshin: Tsuiokuhen.  They kept translating "hitokiri battousai" as "assassin" since they felt people new to the show wouldn't understand why Kenshin was called that, since the OVA was released in the US before the TV series.  The people handling this stuff need to know the material before tackling these kind of series.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on April 02, 2008, 07:31:02 PM
Gotcha, and like you said, "taka" can mean both "falcon" and "hawk," so it's not really necessary to write the furigana above "taka" everytime it's used in the text.

Exactly. Even in terms of convenience, always having 5 characters next to one little kanji would probably make things hard to read at times.

And like you said, I doubt that anybody would think Berserk was connected to Star Wars or visa versa (although there are people out there who probably like the series summary Dark Horse puts on the back of the volumes...).

Well anyway it's not like it's on the cover or anything...
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: handsome rakshas on April 09, 2008, 01:15:51 AM
Volume 22 is my favorite volume for a number of reasons. The reunion on the hill of swords with Guts, Griffith, and Rickert, the battle with Zodd, and even the cute and twisted side story with Farnese and Serpico. But for me episode 186, "Winds of Change 2" will always be my favorite because of the awesome introduction of my favorite character. Every time I read it's like the first time, it always seems exciting. Then along comes Dark Horse. I got over the whole "Hawk of the Millenium Empire Arc" stuff and decided to buy the volume. It was going good until episode 185 when I noticed they changed the episode name to "War Cry of the Wind", which just         
doesn't sound right to me. Then I got to episode 186, my favorite, and things got worse. Let me put up the translation starting from the beginning of the episode.

Kushans: "Stop them! Stop those two horsemen!"
Tapasa: "Young master. Wait."
Silat: "What benefit is there in being loyal to these? We should take advantage of           this chaos to capture the hawk."
Sonia: "Look out!"
Tapasa: "Impossible! We Tapasa were knocked down?!"

It's at this point a shadowy figure emerges from the ground, oozing with awesomeness. My favorite Berserk moment.

Awesome Shadowy guy: "Slow. Obtuse. The summit of the Bakiraka...the Tapasa, inquire in amazement."
Tapasa: "That mask! You're RAKSAS!!"

I'm going to pause a minute here to get my blood pressure back to normal.

Silat: "Why is our clan's exile here!?"
RAKSAS: "I heard the oracle. So you're the hawk of light. You're...lovely. Someday 
I'll lop off your head...and make it mine. Until then...I'll let no harm come to you.
I'll play with you."

Do I have a right to be super pissed off here? I mean RAKSAS? Is there any reason why they would fuck up his name? I know missing an h isn't that big of a deal, but it hits a little closer to home when it's your favorite character! Maybe I'm overreacting, I'm going to go take a pill and lie down.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on April 09, 2008, 01:53:18 AM
How'd they get "War Cry of the Wind" from Toki no Kaze?  :schierke: Gross.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on April 09, 2008, 03:03:12 AM
Yeah, I saw that when I was flipping through the pages, Rakshas.  Don't let it get you down too much, we know what it's supposed to be. :serpico:  They got "beherit" wrong, so I'm not surprised they messed up on Rakshas' name. :schierke:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on April 09, 2008, 07:42:40 AM
Do I have a right to be super pissed off here? I mean RAKSAS?

Considering the fact it very obviously comes from the Indian name "Rakshasa," I do think you have a right to be pissed off.

They got "beherit" wrong

Interesting, I didn't remember that. Probably blocked it out of my mind. What do they translate it as? Behelit?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Griffith on April 09, 2008, 10:58:26 AM
So, I guess volumes 14-21 are still okay, right guys?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Ramen4ever on April 09, 2008, 01:56:21 PM
So has anyone emailed them about these catastrophes?
Maybe send them a Aazealh's Seal of Rejection (tm)?

Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on April 09, 2008, 02:24:37 PM
What do they translate it as? Behelit?

Yup, exactly.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: handsome rakshas on April 09, 2008, 08:22:20 PM
Well that's a common japanese to english l and r mixup. That's not uncommon or anything. After my bud read the new the new volume he called me right away to mock the name error. My new name according to him is "Handsome Rock Sauce".
My feelings are very hurt. 

Yeah Aaz, One of the fellas I used to talk to in the chat room named Mercurii always said my name was great because in his language rakshas means "devil". Maybe I should just change my name to what spell check wants it to be. "Handsome Rickshaws."  :schierke:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on April 09, 2008, 08:45:20 PM
I agree. Somehow, the lack of the H makes you seem less handsome - undignified even... Your mojo has been SULLIED.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on April 09, 2008, 08:47:41 PM
My new name according to him is "Handsome Rock Sauce".

Haha, that's awesome.  I think a change of name is in order. :ganishka:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: A.C on April 11, 2008, 04:02:59 PM
I gave in and bought the Dark Horse volumes since the FX issue had improved. This isn't enough to make me stop buying them again, but they sure weird. Did they get a new translator or something, or maybe they were ordered to change stuff like with the Knight of Skeleton issue?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on April 11, 2008, 05:22:12 PM
I gave in and bought the Dark Horse volumes since the FX issue had improved. This isn't enough to make me stop buying them again, but they sure weird. Did they get a new translator or something, or maybe they were ordered to change stuff like with the Knight of Skeleton issue?

Nope, apparently they received numerous letters and emails asking them to do so.  Vol. 13 was hit the worst, but from Vol. 15 on, they're barely noticeable.  Initially I didn't want to get them either, but since I didn't own the Japanese ones, I figured I'd still show support for the product.  Now it seems we're heading into translation issues again.

Oh, and in reference to the "Groovy" line in Vol. 14, I noticed in Hellsing Vol. 1 that when Alucard is kneeling before Integra after she discovers him in the basement, he utters, "What is thy bidding, my master?"  Seems like Berserk isn't the only manga DH is producing that has movie one liners thrown in.  It's pretty shameful.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Jaze1618 on May 30, 2008, 06:04:07 AM
I picked up book 23 in Seattle today. Wow, I read the scanlations back in the day but holy crap the art in full resolution is so gorgeous. Blows everything else released before it out of the water. This book felt noticably smaller then all before it however it took me the longest to read because each picture had so much to say. In awe..

Translations weren't too bad at all, Guts says the string "as if" 2 times on one page but otherwise a good job done as far as I'm concerned or can even tell.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on June 04, 2008, 04:34:33 PM
I picked up mine about an hour ago.  It looks like they're calling the Millennium Falcon Arc the "Falcon of the Millennium Empire Arc" now.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on June 04, 2008, 06:04:42 PM
Hahaha, well at least they changed it to Falcon  :griff:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on June 04, 2008, 07:28:50 PM
Hahaha, well at least they changed it to Falcon  :griff:

It'll be interesting to see if they change "hawk" to "falcon" throughout the text, as well.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: avidwriter on June 28, 2008, 01:35:35 AM
Just read 23. Getting close to where I started to read the scans. Well another year. Not as much action as pushing the story fowaard but no complaints on my end. Not really a spoiler but I was surprised to see untranslated "kushan" speech.

I only saw Hawk when they mentioned Griffith.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on June 28, 2008, 02:51:25 AM
Not really a spoiler but I was surprised to see untranslated "kushan" speech.

It's the same in the Japanese volumes.  It's something the reader isn't necessarily meant to understand, anyway.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: avidwriter on June 28, 2008, 03:31:51 PM
It's the same in the Japanese volumes.  It's something the reader isn't necessarily meant to understand, anyway.

I know I figured that was the case but I was just surprised that Miura would include that. :miura: I guess we can't expect any less then the best from him eh.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on June 29, 2008, 02:20:29 PM
There's more of that untranslated sanscrit text when Daiba meets Guts and Co. So, it's not really THAT unique.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on July 21, 2008, 05:04:48 PM
Worst one yet, IMO.

Created by Kentaro Miura, Berserk is a runaway manga locomotive, a crashing colossus of teeth-rattling action, spine-chilling horror, and taboo-breaking humor that fires the boilers of its devoted devotees and just fires the rest. Ashes to ashes!

This is from volume 24, which will be released this Wednesday.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on July 21, 2008, 06:46:24 PM
Created by Kentarou Miura, Berserk is a runaway manga locomotive, a crashing colossus of teeth-rattling action, spine-chilling horror, and taboo-breaking humor that fires the boilers of its devoted devotees and just fires the rest. Ashes to ashes!
(http://skullknight.net/images/runawaytrain.jpg)
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on July 21, 2008, 08:23:53 PM
Exactly. :ganishka:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Jaze1618 on August 02, 2008, 02:52:11 AM
My only dissapoinment with volume 24 is that they chose Ivalera instead of Ivarella or the maligned elverella.

What is the real official translation anyways? Not according to DH. Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on August 02, 2008, 04:53:50 PM
My only dissapoinment with volume 24 is that they chose Ivalera instead of Ivarella or the maligned elverella.

What is the real official translation anyways? Not according to DH. Thanks in advance.

There's no known official translation. "Ivalera" is the way it's spelt in the PS2 game's handbook, and while that's not a very reliable source, I can understand why DH would go for it. I've actually been spelling it like that myself for the same reason. As for "elverella", I've never seen that ridiculous spelling before but it's incorrect anyway.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Jaze1618 on August 02, 2008, 08:32:23 PM
Alright thanks. I did not know about the ps2 handbook.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Cronus on September 01, 2008, 04:20:32 PM
Man, I just read the thread shortly after purchasing the whole series, as i was bad about grabbing the Japanese releases before.  You guys are a little insane :)

I remember initially reading these as they came out in YA, and reading them now professionally translated, it's like reading them for the first time again.

3 weeks until 25!

There's no known official translation. "Ivalera" is the way it's spelt in the PS2 game's handbook, and while that's not a very reliable source, I can understand why DH would go for it. I've actually been spelling it like that myself for the same reason. As for "elverella", I've never seen that ridiculous spelling before but it's incorrect anyway.

Given the layout of the katakana and how it could potentially be pronounced/spelled in English, I'm glad they chose the one they did.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Griffith on September 01, 2008, 08:45:53 PM
Man, I just read the thread shortly after purchasing the whole series, as i was bad about grabbing the Japanese releases before.  You guys are a little insane :)

Insane!? INSANE!? I'M NOT INSANE THEY HAVE BOXES I TELLS YA! BOXES!!! :chomp:

Yeah, we may have been lacking perspective. I still haven't purchased the Dark Horse volumes, as I have the originals, but I'm really looking forward to it now so I can read professionally translated Berserk off my shelf, probably when they catch up is when I'll splurge on the whole set at the latest, which won't be long now. It's not that I didn't give it a chance though, bought the first three and was pretty disappointed with their handling, that and the other problems that have come and gone have made me wary still and patient for second printings. I'm still kind of waiting to see if there's going to be any news on a reprinting or perhaps larger compilations. Coincidentally, both things are happening with Vagabond which it really doesn't need, whereas I'd love to see it for Berserk.

I remember initially reading these as they came out in YA, and reading them now professionally translated, it's like reading them for the first time again.

I'm hoping it'll be the same for me, experience it like never before.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Jaze1618 on September 25, 2008, 02:51:27 PM
Get Ready to experience vol 25. Picked it up yesterdat hoping to read it today. Full complaints list coming soon.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Graywords on October 02, 2008, 06:59:21 AM
Bit of a late reply here, sorry. I've been away for a while :)

The last Dark Horse volume of Berserk I bought was 11 or 12, until I ran out of funds... now I'm in Japan with very little access to the American release. Reading this thread is a great source of entertainment for me with some of the amusing choices they've made, especially the horrible taglines/summaries, as usual.  :ganishka:

How'd they get "War Cry of the Wind" from Toki no Kaze?  :schierke: Gross.
That puzzled me too, so I double-checked the title of the Japanese episode, to see if it really was a mistake.

鬨の風  - Toki no Kaze

This particular kanji for "toki" does indeed mean "war cry," so I guess they did get it right, and we got mixed up somehow or other. Ah, well... it happens.  :serpico:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: avidwriter on October 13, 2008, 02:57:29 AM
I finally got 25 yesterday. Damn DeepDiscount for shipping so damn late. I think I might have asked this before but I don't really recall ( I havn't re-read Berserk is about 6+ months.) there being this much cursing. I saw 'shit' and 'dumbass' quite often in this one and I don't recall seeing either if rarely at all. Is it just how it is or is Darkhorse getting more open-ended with japanese translation?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on October 13, 2008, 07:33:32 AM
I think I might have asked this before but I don't really recall ( I havn't re-read Berserk is about 6+ months.) there being this much cursing. I saw 'shit' and 'dumbass' quite often in this one and I don't recall seeing either if rarely at all. Is it just how it is or is Darkhorse getting more open-ended with japanese translation?

You can chalk it up to artistic freedom. Typically, expletives in Japanese can be translated more or less rudely depending on who's doing the job.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: The Perineum Falcon on October 14, 2008, 10:59:27 PM
You can chalk it up to artistic freedom. Typically, expletives in Japanese can be translated more or less rudely depending on who's doing the job.
Right, I always had a difficult time understanding the bad words in Japanese. My sensei told me (if I remember correctly), that there aren't "technically" any curse words in the language, just the same words on a scale of formality and rudeness.
So, whether DH's translation is right or wrong, it's all relative.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Jaze1618 on November 28, 2008, 03:55:37 PM
Volume 26 is out and about. It feels weird having the whole thing go by so quick when opposed to reading scans on the PC. Overall a nice job done by Darkhorse.

Maybe three translations over that red flagged my attention a little only because they are different than what I have gone off of before with unofficial translations. These may even be more accurate, I cannot claim to know.

Pg 29
Guts: Oh well, first hundred-man...
...No...
hundred beast kill fest I've had in a while.

Pg 103
Skull Knight: The Sword of Actuation

I can't remember what the other one was.

Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on November 28, 2008, 04:10:21 PM
Pg 103
Skull Knight: The Sword of Actuation
Oh my...
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on November 28, 2008, 04:16:43 PM
Pg 29
Guts: Oh well, first hundred-man...
...No...
hundred beast kill fest I've had in a while.

I don't see what's wrong with that one. Here's what puella had translated at the time: "It's been a long time since that hundred-man battle. Now, let's start this hundred-beast battle..."

Pg 103
Skull Knight: The Sword of Actuation

For what it's worth, I think it's a clever way to put it, seeing how the name isn't really translatable. I'd still settle on the simple "beherit sword" myself, though.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Grovel on November 28, 2008, 06:40:09 PM
I was looking forward to seeing how they translated Skull Knights description of Slan:
'Whore Princess of the Uterine Sea' is what they came up with.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on November 28, 2008, 06:47:42 PM
I was looking forward to seeing how they translated Skull Knights description of Slan:
'Whore Princess of the Uterine Sea' is what they came up with.
That's about as good as anyone could have done. But I believe she's specifically referred to as a high-class prostitute, Courtesan, not a lowly whore.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on November 28, 2008, 07:01:30 PM
I was looking forward to seeing how they translated Skull Knights description of Slan:
'Whore Princess of the Uterine Sea' is what they came up with.

Another untranslatable line. Still, it's disappointing they didn't realize that "娼姫" is just an old polite word for prostitute (something akin to "courtesan" I guess) and went for a literal, word-by-word translation instead.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Jaze1618 on November 29, 2008, 02:26:51 AM
I don't see what's wrong with that one. Here's what puella had translated at the time: "It's been a long time since that hundred-man battle. Now, let's start this hundred-beast battle..."

I think it was the phrase "kill fest" that I don't care for if I analyze the root of my distaste. It's heartening to hear however that the context stays true to the original translation. I didn't start reading Sk.net raws and translations until vol 27 so I was probably going off of HAWKS scans for these episodes.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on November 29, 2008, 07:22:15 AM
I think it was the phrase "kill fest" that I don't care for if I analyze the root of my distaste.

Ah, yeah I see. It's true it's not the most elegant wording there is.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: A.C on November 29, 2008, 10:34:49 AM
Another untranslatable line. Still, it's disappointing they didn't realize that "娼姫" is just an old polite word for prostitute (something akin to "courtesan" I guess) and went for a literal, word-by-word translation instead.

Hmm. Or maybe they did and they just wanted Skull Knight to sound more insulting.

But "courtesan" is kinda interesting, a woman/mistress who cohabits with an important man: what does Skull Knight mean by that? Does Slan cohabit with the other God Hand members or could it be a reference to Slan's human background?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on November 29, 2008, 11:39:46 AM
Hmm. Or maybe they did and they just wanted Skull Knight to sound more insulting.

No. It's just a word-by-word translation that makes little sense.

But "courtesan" is kinda interesting, a woman/mistress who cohabits with an important man: what does Skull Knight mean by that?

Don't stick blindly to the first definition you read in a dictionary. In old times a courtesan was basically a high class prostitute. SK uses a specific word because he's a thousand year old emperor and this fact is shown in his manner of speech. But for all intents and purposes he's just insulting her.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on December 03, 2008, 10:45:17 PM
I just opened up my copy of Dark Horse's release of Vol. 26 and noticed something right away.  They're calling the Berserk's Armor the "Berserker Armor."
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on December 03, 2008, 10:50:11 PM
Yeah Im not sure how I feel about that, because honestly Berserk's Armor doesn't sound any more natural...
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on December 04, 2008, 04:01:14 AM
Slan remarks that "Alas, troll entrails make for a revolting ethereal figure," but I don't think this is accurate.  It looks like they're using "astral" and "ethereal" interchangeably, so Slan referring to her temporary form made from troll intestines as an ethereal body doesn't seem right.  I checked the translation available here, which reads, "These disgusting intestines of trolls are the worst body for me," and I assume this is closer to the original meaning.  Is there a specific term for these temporary bodies the God Hand occasionally use?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on December 04, 2008, 07:50:05 AM
I just opened up my copy of Dark Horse's release of Vol. 26 and noticed something right away.  They're calling the Berserk's Armor the "Berserker Armor."

Well it's not incorrect. It can be translated in a varieties of way. Don't be ashamed though, I like "Armor of the Berserk" myself as well. :guts:

Slan remarks that "Alas, troll entrails make for a revolting ethereal figure," but I don't think this is accurate.  It looks like they're using "astral" and "ethereal" interchangeably, so Slan referring to her temporary form made from troll intestines as an ethereal body doesn't seem right.  I checked the translation available here, which reads, "These disgusting intestines of trolls are the worst body for me," and I assume this is closer to the original meaning.  Is there a specific term for these temporary bodies the God Hand occasionally use?

There's no specific term for it. About what Slan says, it's a bit complicated. She does use "幽" in that sentence (which we usually translate as "astral", though it has several meanings), but clearly she's talking about a corporeal body, one that can be touched. The key fact here is that in the context, "astral" and "ethereal" aren't synonyms. The word in general doesn't necessarily imply incorporeality. The trolls are astral creatures (and thus the body Slan made for herself is also astral in nature), like the Kelpie or elves, but for a variety of reasons they can physically come into contact with the material world.

So using the word "ethereal" was an error, but it should be noted that she does differentiate it from, say, a normal human body.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on December 04, 2008, 07:57:14 AM
Don't be ashamed though, I like "Armor of the Berserk" myself as well. :guts:

Haha, once again you see all. :idea:

There's no specific term for it. About what Slan says, it's a bit complicated. She does use "幽" in that sentence (which we usually translate as "astral", though it has several meanings), but clearly she's talking about a corporeal body, one that can be touched. The key fact here is that in the context, "astral" and "ethereal" aren't synonyms. The word in general doesn't necessarily imply incorporeality. The trolls are astral creatures (and thus the body Slan made for herself is also astral in nature), like the Kelpie or elves, but for a variety of reasons they can physically come into contact with the material world.

So using the word "ethereal" was an error, but it should be noted that she does differentiate it from, say, a normal human body.

Okay, that makes sense.  I've finished Vol. 26 and they continue to use "ethereal" instead of "astral" for whatever reason.  Also, they replaced "causality" with "karma" in Flora and Skull Knight's conversation about causality being a spiral, which really irked me.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Griffith on December 09, 2008, 01:04:21 AM
I just sent Miura his Christmas present, ordering $300 worth of Dark Horse Berserk to complement my Japanese volumes. Now that I've taken the plunge, I'm sure they'll do the re-release of the series I've been hoping for and fearing. :ganishka:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: avidwriter on December 19, 2008, 02:57:40 AM
Ever since I started buying the Dark Horse releases I have been waiting for him to get into the armor.  :chomp:

Its certainly not all down hill from here I mean  :ganishka: is still on the horizon and  :daiba: is fun too.

Sucks that once we catch up I assume next year we'll have to wait so very long for the next volume.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on December 19, 2008, 03:01:41 AM
If you buy the Japanese volumes as they come out, you'll have it that much quicker.  You can always buy the Dark Horse volumes when they come out later, too. :serpico:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on December 19, 2008, 03:11:11 AM
DH should actually get "caught up" to the japanese releases by 2010 at the rate of 1 volume every 2 months. Berserk is currently about 5 episodes shy of its 34th volume.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Bacongod on January 11, 2009, 10:24:21 PM
I just finished DH volume 26, and had a translation question.  As Grunbeld is stomping on Guts on page 177, he refers to him as "Archenemy."  In the translation archive on this site, you guys went with "Old Enemy."  I'm a fool for asking y'all to second guess yourselves, but which is more correct?   I ask because earlier I had been reading "why Griffith doesn't kill guts" thread, and the answer that kept coming up was, "Guts doesn't matter to Griffith."  If Guts really doesn't matter, why would Grunbeld hear of him as an archenemy?   
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on January 11, 2009, 10:44:47 PM
I just finished DH volume 26, and had a translation question.  As Grunbeld is stomping on Guts on page 177, he refers to him as "Archenemy."  In the translation archive on this site, you guys went with "Old Enemy."  I'm a fool for asking y'all to second guess yourselves, but which is more correct?   I ask because earlier I had been reading "why Griffith doesn't kill guts" thread, and the answer that kept coming up was, "Guts doesn't matter to Griffith."  If Guts really doesn't matter, why would Grunbeld hear of him as an archenemy?

The word in question is "宿敵". The standard dictionary definition: "an old enemy[foe]; a mortal enemy; a rival of long standing". The word doesn't necessarily convey an indication of time. With that in mind, "archenemy" seems an acceptable translation to me.

As for your question, keep in mind that Grunbeld was talking on behalf of the apostles. And I refer you to Femto's comment about Guts killing apostles on page 77 of volume 3.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on January 25, 2009, 05:28:24 PM
Well, I just finished reading DH's 26, and I have to say, they made some weird/embarrassing translation choices in key parts. It's like they try to inject personality at the worst possible times. The worst, for me, is when Zodd sees Guts wearing the Berserker Armor. He turns to Skull Knight and says: "Ah, the memories," instead of just "It brings back good memories." Or ANYTHING less casual sounding.  Or when Apostles are trying to get past Skull Knight to Flora and end up getting sliced,  instead of him saying: "It will not happen" or even "None shall pass." It's "No, you don't" (as in, "Ah, Ah, Ah! I don't THINK so!"  :badbone:) Ugh.

Another thing is the way they've inconsistently transliterated the sound effects. Sometimes they'll do a romanization of the effect, and other times they attempt to actually interpret its meaning for us, which I don't appreciate, especially when they fuck it up. For instance, In the second ep of 26, when Slan begins to rise from the waters of the Qliphoth, Guts' brand starts to bleed severely, but the actual sound effect is: "DO-KU" as in, a heart beat. It makes sense. But DH translates this as "*FX: Bleed." As if that wasn't already readily apparent when paired with the visuals, they felt they had to railroad over the actual meaning of the SFX to get that bleeding across.  :schierke:

I bought a few more DH volumes along with 26 with my eyes wide open to the possibility they were doing things right. I really wanted to enjoy this volume... but man they sure are making it hard for me.

Some more big ones I remembered after another glance through:
- When Skull Knight calls upon Guts to use the Dragon Slayer against Slan, "With that sword of yours, Knight, it can be done...!" (Guts is normally referred to as 'swordsman,' since he was never a noble, or knighted. With all the knowledge SK possesses, I thought for sure he'd know this...?  :SK:)
- They fucked up Causality again. They refer to it as Karma (despite them previously translating Inga as Causality in vol 12, during Void's speech in multiple segments). The worst is their use of it here though: SK: "IT IS KARMIC." and ... Flora: "...But Karma is by no means a circle."  :mozgus:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Bekul on January 25, 2009, 05:42:50 PM
Y'know... errm. Well, I'm a college student, with a bit of cash from work, but this is making it rather difficult to be able to justify buying this edition. Some of what's being reported here is just incomprehensible.

Going by some of these... translation decisions, is it a possibility that DH could be using Berserk to train new staff? People who aren't used to translating, who don't know or care about the Berserk world. If it's just 'here, practice on this, we'll publish whatever you come up with', then it would start to make sense.

Me, I'm more and more wanting to just go ahead and buy the Japanese versions. There's far, far better translations here, and I won't have to suffer though a the weird slang and... as Walter posted, such ridiculous things as '*FX: Bleed.'.  :schierke: (most useful emoticon ever, btw)

*edit* oh wow, sorry, spelling and such. never post /while/ drinking moring coffee, jeeze. */edit*
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on January 25, 2009, 06:31:59 PM

Reading this thread is depressing. :sad:

Me, I'm more and more wanting to just go ahead and buy the Japanese versions.

You mean you haven't got them all already?! Do it. DO IT NOW!! :mozgus:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on January 25, 2009, 06:38:00 PM
Continuing the tradition, I thought I'd add this, from the back cover:

Quote from: This fucking guy at Dark Horse who hates us all
"Created by Kentarou Miura, Berserk is the hammer of the manga forge, a white-hot amalgam of bruising action, breathless horror, and brimstone humor (UGH) that separates men from boys, wheat from chaff, and heads from shoulders. Do you want to live forever?"
(http://skullknight.net/images/gutsbarf.gif)
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Bekul on January 25, 2009, 07:13:29 PM
You mean you haven't got them all already?! Do it. DO IT NOW!! :mozgus:

Well, I've got #'s 2,4,7, and 15. My precious'ess!

Continuing the tradition, I thought I'd add this, from the back cover:

"Created by Kentarou Miura, Berserk is the hammer of the manga forge, a (could not miss the point any harder) that separates men from boys, wheat from chaff..."

Coming soon...

BERSERK: The BREADMAKER
BERSERK: The BREADENING
BERSERK: Cooking with Slan! :slan:
BERSERK: Farmer Guts Roasts a Troll. :schnoz:
BERSERK: Old McGriffith Had a Farm... :griff:
BERSERK: Puberty! Separating Men :guts: from Boys  :sad:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: TheBranded1 on January 25, 2009, 08:19:28 PM
                            And they claim themselve to be professional editors and translators. Even this guy would be better at it
                                        (http://www.onlyscience.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/nerd.jpg)
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on January 25, 2009, 09:56:05 PM
That's going too far. The vast majority of the volumes are great. I'm glad to have the series in English. I just wish they wouldn't mess up these important scenes, and would look more carefully at their word choices.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: TheBranded1 on January 25, 2009, 10:23:25 PM
I guess I did go in Berserk mode there too. I do wonder how much proof reading is done in a graphic novel, or they trust the guys who are doing it and go with what they have done.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Xem on January 26, 2009, 04:47:56 AM
I finally got my hands on the latest volume as well, but I didn't notice the mistranslations like Walter did. My biggest concern now is shelf space. I've got this perfect little nook where all my Berserk stuff fits perfectly but with the addition of volume 28 in March I'm going to have to change something. =P

I'm still really enjoying being able to read these in volume format without looking up translations.... I might see a thread revival in the volume analysis thread sometime soon. =) Why'd we stop that anyway?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Scorpio on January 26, 2009, 10:56:00 AM
Continuing the tradition, I thought I'd add this, from the back cover:
"Created by Kentarou Miura, Berserk is the hammer of the manga forge, a white-hot amalgam of bruising action, breathless horror, and brimstone humor (UGH) that separates men from boys, wheat from chaff, and heads from shoulders. Do you want to live forever?"
(http://skullknight.net/images/gutsbarf.gif)

This is poetry considering some of their earlier ones.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Griffith on January 26, 2009, 09:42:05 PM
Well, I just finished reading DH's 26, and I have to say, they made some weird/embarrassing translation choices in key parts. It's like they try to inject personality at the worst possible times. The worst, for me, is when Zodd sees Guts wearing the Berserker Armor. He turns to Skull Knight and says: "Ah, the memories," instead of just "It brings back good memories." Or ANYTHING less casual sounding.  Or when Apostles are trying to get past Skull Knight to Flora and up getting sliced,  instead of him saying: "It will not happen" or even "None shall pass." It's "No, you don't" (as in, "Ah, Ah, Ah! I don't THINK so!"  :badbone:) Ugh.

I don't know, all that seems like small potatoes compared to the awkwardly garbled translation of Slan and Skully's conversation, at least to me. By no means is the DH translation "appropriate" on a whole anyway, so these being the translations we have (hello, Knight of Skeleton), all I care about is the bare bones message more-or-less accurately getting across, even if their style choices are irksome. I'll even go so far as to say some of it might be on our end, for example, in my edition, Skully simply says, "No, you won't." Perfectly boringly appropriate (I wish more of it were that way), so either we've discovered a variation, or after 26 volumes of this Dark Horse has conditioned you to see bad in their work even when it's not there. =)
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on January 26, 2009, 09:48:30 PM
I don't know, all that seems like small potatoes compared to the awkwardly garbled translation of Slan and Skully's conversation, at least to me. By no means is the DH translation "appropriate" on a whole anyway, so these being the translations we have (hello, Knight of Skeleton), all I care about is the message effectively getting across, even if their style choices are irksome.
Karma does not equal Causality. That's got nothing to do with irksome style changes. They just fucked that one up.

Quote
I'll even go so far as to say some of it might be on your end, for example, in my edition, Skully simply says, "No, you won't." Perfectly boringly fine, so either we've discovered an edition difference, or after 26 volumes of this Dark Horse has conditioned you to see bad in their work even when it's not there. =)
That's what I meant to type: "No, you won't." I just mistyped it ... It's still retarded. I think I made my case clear in my post. There were other ways they could have delivered that line that would have been ... more Skull Knight-y.  :SK:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Griffith on January 26, 2009, 10:12:51 PM
Karma does not equal Causality. That's got nothing to do with irksome style changes. They just fucked that one up.

I'll admit I'm pretty bummed that my standards have lowered to the point where it's good enough for me just if I can understand it after basically studying Berserk for a decade. To me, it's like a good companion if you're already an "expert", so you can translate their translation back into what it's supposed to mean. =)

Otherwise, without other sources of reference, it can be just as misleading as helpful.

That's what I meant to type: "No, you won't." I just mistyped it ... It's still retarded. I think I made my case clear in my post. There were other ways they could have delivered that line that would have been ... more Skull Knight-y.  :SK:

There's probably a thousand examples of things like that though, it's the equivalent of citing them for jaywalking (when they're covered in blood =). Like I said, it's invaluable to an English-speaker's knowledge of the series, it's just by no means definitive.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Struggler on February 24, 2009, 11:20:45 PM
One thing I didn't quite understand from reading the last volume, if the armor is supporting his broken bones how did they remove the armor, once removed how was he able to walk or do the elves also repair bone thanks.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on February 24, 2009, 11:48:13 PM
One thing I didn't quite understand from reading the last volume, if the armor is supporting his broken bones how did they remove the armor, once removed how was he able to walk or do the elves also repair bone thanks.

I think it's all covered in episode 236:

Quote
Schierke: I still think you should take that armour off and rest for at least 4 or 5 more days

Guts: The charm that your mentor put in this armour, and Casca's necklace aren't things that will last forever. I've been down/sleeping for close to a month now, we can't waste anymore time.

Guts: It's true the pain won't go away as much compared to when I'm fighting but because of this, there won't be any problems with our journey.
Guts: And thanks to your medicine and those little guys, I'm becoming quite a bit better.

Schierke: But, it's still over doing it. It was truly terrible after that battle. He kept bleeding for days because the armour stuck onto him.
Schierke: And once we finally took it off, he lost consciousness and awakened from the pain over and over. And everytime, his wounds would open again.

Basically, they waited some days but eventually had to forcibly remove the armor because the bleeding didn't stop (and by that time we can assume that the bone reparative process had already started), and then Schierke and the elves did their thing for almost a month before Guts started walking again (while wearing the armor so that he didn't feel the pain as sharply).
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Solarmaker on February 25, 2009, 03:13:00 AM
I know how you guys feel about the horrid translations. It's hard to be watching an anime and spot problems with the subtitles. Makes you want to throw carrots at something.  I really wonder who DOES the translation for Berserk? 

 But also you have to consider that sometimes when they make a change from the translation it could be that maybe there isn't enough space in the speech bubble or some other pathetic excuse like that.

But i hate it as well when they translate the sound effects.  I mean how angry would you be if you were reading an american comic that had been translated and instead of putting "Kaboom" or something like that they put "loud noise". LAME.

It's probably harder for you guys who can read the original Japanese since you see how badly it's done, but from the spectrum of the readers who only read the english version, it's ok and at least it makes sense. I mean they may not translate properly and directly from but how much more of a tragedy would it be if it just didn't make sense? also, at least DH is doing a good job of bringing Berserk to the people even if it does have a few translation errors.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Oburi on February 25, 2009, 03:34:21 AM
I wish they handled the series differently from the start. A manga like berserk should get, at the very least, the same treatment as a series like Eden, for example. The overall quality of the book is very nice for that series. Everything from the quality of the cover to the paper they use for the actual pages. And that series isn't even as popular.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: VICTORIOUS march on February 25, 2009, 06:36:01 AM
i've had volumes 1-7 of the dark horse releases.. ended up selling them.. i bought them again, this time volumes 1-16.. ended up selling them.. i recently bought volumes 1-27 in a lot on eBay for a great price. my point is, i have OCD, and i blame it on the slow releases!!  :schnoz:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Oburi on February 25, 2009, 07:09:56 AM
i've had volumes 1-7 of the dark horse releases.. ended up selling them.. i bought them again, this time volumes 1-16.. ended up selling them.. i recently bought volumes 1-27 in a lot on eBay for a great price. my point is, i have OCD, and i blame it on the slow releases!!  :schnoz:

? lol. I can't believe you bought them and sold them twice. And I think you may have beaten me on that 1-27 lot on e-bay. It's probably the same one I was trying to get because you almost never find the whole set like that so I was bidding on that one. You bastard!!! :azan:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on February 25, 2009, 05:13:56 PM
my point is, i have OCD, and i blame it on the slow releases!!  :schnoz:

The releases are actually quite fast.  You'd probably lose your mind if you only followed the Japanese releases, since they come out only once or twice a year, instead of the two month wait you're faced with here.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Solarmaker on February 25, 2009, 06:14:57 PM
seriously, i mean miura has been writing berserk for 18 years.  let me say that again, 18 years.  why the hell does he only release chapters practically only when the planets are aligned? i mean i waited almost a whole year to read the latest 6 chapters and then at the end of those it said "miura-san will be taking a break."

and its not like hes been working on anything else right? if he was I'd understand but why does he string us all out like this? ohh...it's probably for the money huh?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: TheBranded1 on February 25, 2009, 06:24:26 PM
seriously, i mean miura has been writing berserk for 18 years.  let me say that again, 18 years.  why the hell does he only release chapters practically only when the planets are aligned? i mean i waited almost a whole year to read the latest 6 chapters and then at the end of those it said "miura-san will be taking a break."

and its not like hes been working on anything else right? if he was I'd understand but why does he string us all out like this? ohh...it's probably for the money huh?

There are more factors to take place. He writes and draws the manga. He has a life besides berserk. Storyboard to see how the final product will look like, storywise and visually. He might have other jobs he might be doing for an ad or anything else we might not care about. I don't think it's much for the money, I think he is dedicated to Berserk as you might be to your job, career or family.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on February 25, 2009, 06:55:10 PM
seriously, i mean miura has been writing berserk for 18 years.  let me say that again, 18 years.  why the hell does he only release chapters practically only when the planets are aligned? i mean i waited almost a whole year to read the latest 6 chapters and then at the end of those it said "miura-san will be taking a break."

and its not like hes been working on anything else right? if he was I'd understand but why does he string us all out like this? ohh...it's probably for the money huh?

I can't wait until Aaz, Wally and Griff see this.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on February 25, 2009, 07:38:47 PM
Solarmaker, your post is not only poorly formulated and misplaced, but also disrespectful. You may be frustrated but that doesn't excuse it.

seriously, i mean miura has been writing berserk for 18 years.  let me say that again, 18 years.

For over 20 years, as a matter of fact.

why the hell does he only release chapters practically only when the planets are aligned? i mean i waited almost a whole year to read the latest 6 chapters and then at the end of those it said "miura-san will be taking a break."

I doubt anyone here has an interest in how long you've waited to do anything. It's nothing remarkable. Also, they're called episodes and not chapters, and at the end of episode 301 it just said "to be continued". Get it right. Now, if you use the elements in your post and think a little bit, you should be able to come up with many hypotheses for the recent extended breaks. Like for example the possibility that after years of working on Berserk pretty much non-stop, Miura might want to take some time for himself. To take it slowly for a while, you know. Or maybe the fact that we're at the pivotal point of the series, and that a lot of preliminary work is required in order to produce a high quality manga. Because as you don't know for not having looked around on this forum before posting, Miura first plans the scenario, new designs, developments and the like during his breaks, and only then does he draw the episodes during the two weeks available between Young Animal issues.

Being as completely ignorant about the production of Berserk as you are, you really shouldn't be posting about it.

and its not like hes been working on anything else right? if he was I'd understand but why does he string us all out like this? ohh...it's probably for the money huh?

And how exactly is an irregular publication supposed to earn him more money? Honestly it seems to me like you don't know what you're talking about. Do you even buy Young Animal? No you don't, so why even make such a comment?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: VICTORIOUS march on February 26, 2009, 12:24:39 AM
lol, yup.. that was me ;x
when i see an auction i want, i do anything to win it [griffith style]  :griffnotevil:

yeah, i shouldn't complain about the releases, though. i actually sold them twice because i wasn't aware they were available and english subbed online. i read up until the latest episode, but something so epic should be owned.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on February 26, 2009, 12:35:18 AM
lol, yup.. that was me ;x
when i see an auction i want, i do anything to win it [griffith style]  :griffnotevil:
(http://www.skullknight.net/images/gennonanything.jpg)
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: VICTORIOUS march on February 26, 2009, 05:21:24 PM
lolol noooooooooooooooooooo [echos]  :judo:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Johnstantine on February 26, 2009, 06:58:41 PM
Solarmaker, your post is not only poorly formulated and misplaced, but also disrespectful. You may be frustrated but that doesn't excuse it.

For over 20 years, as a matter of fact.

I doubt anyone here has an interest in how long you've waited to do anything. It's nothing remarkable. Also, they're called episodes and not chapters, and at the end of episode 301 it just said "to be continued". Get it right. Now, if you use the elements in your post and think a little bit, you should be able to come up with many hypotheses for the recent extended breaks. Like for example the possibility that after years of working on Berserk pretty much non-stop, Miura might want to take some time for himself. To take it slowly for a while, you know. Or maybe the fact that we're at the pivotal point of the series, and that a lot of preliminary work is required in order to produce a high quality manga. Because as you don't know for not having looked around on this forum before posting, Miura first plans the scenario, new designs, developments and the like during his breaks, and only then does he draw the episodes during the two weeks available between Young Animal issues.

Being as completely ignorant about the production of Berserk as you are, you really shouldn't be posting about it.

And how exactly is an irregular publication supposed to earn him more money? Honestly it seems to me like you don't know what you're talking about. Do you even buy Young Animal? No you don't, so why even make such a comment?

Man.  Here I thought that I was getting the wrath.

Anywho, I have no problem with the translations provided from DH.  As long as I can kick back, relax and read them anywhere besides infront of a monitor then I'm good to go.

I do love the fact that, as of late, DH has been pushing them out faster.  It may just be me, though, but it really does seem like they're being released closer together than they used to be.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on February 26, 2009, 07:07:00 PM
Anywho, I have no problem with the translations provided from DH.  As long as I can kick back, relax and read them anywhere besides infront of a monitor then I'm good to go.
On the whole, I agree with you. I just think Dark Horse could focus a little more on important elements, like, say when they confuse Causality (a very important and repeatedly mentioned concept in the series) with Karma. Problems like that can easily be resolved with more attention paid by the translators.

Quote
I do love the fact that, as of late, DH has been pushing them out faster.  It may just be me, though, but it really does seem like they're being released closer together than they used to be.
Nah, they've been coming out steadily every 2 months since volume 13, which I'm certainly grateful for. It used to be every 3 months, I believe. Which still isn't too bad.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: avidwriter on February 26, 2009, 07:27:23 PM
I'd like if it was every month but even at this rate I think its this year or early next that we'll catch up to Japan and then it'll be a real waiting game.  :judo:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on February 26, 2009, 08:05:26 PM
Man.  Here I thought that I was getting the wrath.

Don't be mistaken, I'm being rather nice. It's not a shame to not know the intricate details of Berserk's publication, but it is irritating when people make meanspirited assumptions about it.

Anywho, I have no problem with the translations provided from DH.  As long as I can kick back, relax and read them anywhere besides infront of a monitor then I'm good to go.

They're better than the alternative of reading scans, that's for sure. However, what I think people complain about is the low production value of Berserk in the US. This is reflected in paper and ink quality, but also in the translations, which do take more time and effort to be more refined. And more time means the translator has to be paid more money. Sure, it's readable, but it's easy to see how the "hardcore" fans would want to see it get a better treatment.

I do love the fact that, as of late, DH has been pushing them out faster.  It may just be me, though, but it really does seem like they're being released closer together than they used to be.

First announced here years ago by Chris Warner himself! :badbone:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: vanheat on February 27, 2009, 02:07:38 AM

They're better than the alternative of reading scans, that's for sure. However, what I think people complain about is the low production value of Berserk in the US. This is reflected in paper and ink quality, but also in the translations, which do take more time and effort to be more refined. And more time means the translator has to be paid more money.

Do other countries have higher production values and translations or is Japan the only place where Berserk is truly loved? I always thought the U.S. was really good besides the translation errors. I have my German Berserk and they seem cheap. No foldout posters and the book is 5 mm shorter. Then the cover is removable. As proof of the translation look no further than the names.   
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on February 27, 2009, 05:07:44 AM
I think he means Berserk isn't given as royal a treatment as say, Viz has done with Vagabond. The paper and print quality, attention to detail in the covers, integration of sound effects on the page and a thematically consistent logo are all things Viz has done better than Dark Horse in the treatment of these two series.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Vampire_Hunter_Bob on February 27, 2009, 12:07:39 PM
I think he means Berserk isn't given as royal a treatment as say, Viz has done with Vagabond. The paper and print quality, attention to detail in the covers, integration of sound effects on the page and a thematically consistent logo are all things Viz has done better than Dark Horse in the treatment of these two series.

I can't wait for the day Viz buys the rights to Berserk and re-releases it.  :judo:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on February 27, 2009, 12:32:50 PM
Do other countries have higher production values and translations or is Japan the only place where Berserk is truly loved? I always thought the U.S. was really good besides the translation errors. I have my German Berserk and they seem cheap. No foldout posters and the book is 5 mm shorter. Then the cover is removable. As proof of the translation look no further than the names.

Well there should be a removable dust jacket, that's normal. But to answer your question, not many foreign editions do a good job with it from what I've seen. The French edition is decent as far paper quality goes and it does have the posters, but the translations really suck. The translations in the Italian and Spanish editions aren't very good either. I guess the Korean edition probably has the least errors- but it still does have some.

Like Walter said though, I didn't mean to compare it with other adaptations but instead to point out that people complain because they feel Berserk is a high caliber work and deserves a more prestigious edition.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: vanheat on March 02, 2009, 09:21:21 PM
Tis a shame especially with it being one man's life work, but thank you for the answers. I'll have to investigate the Korean edition, but I think I'll skip the Brazilian edition. I assumed Berserk sold better than Vagabond with it being around much longer and all. According to comipress it does in America but then I came across http://viz.com/news/promotions/inoue2/ and saw that Vagabond has sold over 48 million worldwide with 100 million in print. So maybe the budget is a little tighter for Berserk or Dark Horse (compared to Viz), but I'm sure it brings in enough to warrant a nicer edition. If only the people at DH liked Berserk a little more. Speaking of DH I was a little surprised by Chris Warners' posts at the end before he stopped posting. That would be cool if Chris Warner comes back with some more announcements. 
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on March 02, 2009, 09:58:50 PM
I'll have to investigate the Korean edition, but I think I'll skip the Brazilian edition.

Well unless you read Korean I'd rather advise you to go with the Japanese edition directly. It's the best one.

I assumed Berserk sold better than Vagabond with it being around much longer and all. According to comipress it does in America but then I came across http://viz.com/news/promotions/inoue2/ and saw that Vagabond has sold over 48 million worldwide with 100 million in print.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Berserk sells more than Vagabond in the USA nowadays, at least according to the various sales ranking I've seen. In Japan I know they used to be close to each other in terms of total volumes sold a few years ago, with Vagabond selling more volumes and quickly gaining on Berserk despite its age. It has most certainly gotten ahead of Berserk by now, especially since Berserk doesn't sell as well as it used to (with only one volume released last year though that's easy to understand). The last time I read anything about sales in YA was almost exactly a year ago, and at the time they announced that Berserk had sold over 27 million volumes worldwide, with 23 million exclusively in Japan. International sales may have picked up a bit since then, it's hard to tell. In any case it definitely hasn't reached 50 million.

That would be cool if Chris Warner comes back with some more announcements.

It sure would, yeah.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: smoke on March 14, 2009, 06:26:32 PM
I just picked up the Dark Horse tranlsation for volume 25 today, and about 10 pages of it are upside-down in the middle of the book.

Kind of a pain in the ass.

So, I'm wondering if I can return this to the store I bought it from? (Probably, right?) and also wondering if this is common among these Dark Horse releases. Anybody else seen this kind of anomaly in their mangaseses?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: TheBranded1 on March 14, 2009, 06:49:33 PM
If you have the receipt in most cases you need it. I have Vol. 25 in my hands and I didn't find that mistake in mine. Must have been a printer mistake or something else made by a peerson working in the prints.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on March 14, 2009, 09:11:14 PM
So, I'm wondering if I can return this to the store I bought it from? (Probably, right?) and also wondering if this is common among these Dark Horse releases. Anybody else seen this kind of anomaly in their mangaseses?
It's not in my vol 25.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: avidwriter on March 15, 2009, 08:01:18 PM
I just picked up the Dark Horse tranlsation for volume 25 today, and about 10 pages of it are upside-down in the middle of the book.

Kind of a pain in the ass.

So, I'm wondering if I can return this to the store I bought it from? (Probably, right?) and also wondering if this is common among these Dark Horse releases. Anybody else seen this kind of anomaly in their mangaseses?

I had some printing errors in my Vol 13. I emailed darkhorse and they offered to replace it, I just had to mail it. Cost me maybe $2 but I got a crisp copy and a darkhorse keyring with the horse head thingy.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on March 22, 2009, 06:00:49 PM
Dark Horse's Volume 28 (http://www.darkhorse.com/Books/15-720/Berserk-Volume-28-TPB) comes out Tuesday, March 24th. My preorder has already been placed. I'm REALLY looking forward to how they translate "Hanafubuku Oh." I'm sure it will be "Flower Typhoon Emperor" or something  :void:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: avidwriter on March 22, 2009, 06:23:22 PM
Dark Horse's Volume 28 (http://www.darkhorse.com/Books/15-720/Berserk-Volume-28-TPB) comes out Tuesday, March 24th. My preorder has already been placed. I'm REALLY looking forward to how they translate "Hanafubuku Oh." I'm sure it will be "Flower Typhoon Emperor" or something  :void:

Maybe just "Fairy King" *shrugs*  :puck:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on March 22, 2009, 06:26:44 PM
Maybe just "Fairy King" *shrugs*  :puck:
Well, that'd be quite a huge cop out for them, then. And I don't expect that they'd do that, since they at least gave it an effort with Yobimizu no Tsurugi or Harawada no Shouki (not that I necessarily liked their translation choices, but it's clear they tried).
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: BLG on March 26, 2009, 02:39:02 PM
Dark Horse's Volume 28 (http://www.darkhorse.com/Books/15-720/Berserk-Volume-28-TPB) comes out Tuesday, March 24th. My preorder has already been placed. I'm REALLY looking forward to how they translate "Hanafubuku Oh." I'm sure it will be "Flower Typhoon Emperor" or something  :void:

Well, I just finished it and luckily they just went with "King Hanafubuku". Overall I think it was yet another solid volume from DH.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on March 26, 2009, 02:54:55 PM
Well, I just finished it and luckily they just went with "King Hanafubuku".

Not translating a word has nothing to do with luck, it's just plain laziness. "Hanafubuku" doesn't mean anything in English, and that absence of translation makes it seem like it's a proper name, which it isn't. How are people going to know what it refers to? I don't understand that decision. If they had chosen not to translate difficult words in the past I would have understood to some extent, but this one isn't any harder than what you can find in volume 26.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on March 26, 2009, 03:07:35 PM
Wow. So they did cop out after all...  :schierke:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: BLG on March 26, 2009, 03:10:40 PM
I'm just happy they didn't go with some lame Knight of Skeleton type of translation. Would you have preferred "Flower Typhoon Emperor"? Or maybe you've got a better translation?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on March 26, 2009, 03:23:39 PM
I'm just happy they didn't go with some lame Knight of Skeleton type of translation. Would you have preferred "Flower Typhoon Emperor"? Or maybe you've got a better translation?
Flower Typhoon Emperor was obviously like a worst case scenario. But it's not my job to come up with good translations. That's what we're paying DH to do.

And I don't think it sets a good precedent to be pleased with mediocrity or laziness, just because they didn't completely fuck it up. That's like a form of Stockholm Syndrome.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: BLG on March 26, 2009, 03:29:13 PM
Flower Typhoon Emperor was obviously like a worst case scenario. But it's not my job to come up with good translations. That's what we're paying DH to do.

I'm just saying that it seems stupid to complain, since there probably isn't any translation that would make you purists 100% happy.

EDIT: And do we actually have any proof that the king's proper name isn't Hanafubuku?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: TheBranded1 on March 26, 2009, 03:50:44 PM
I'm just saying that it seems stupid to complain, since there probably isn't any translation that would make you purists 100% happy.

No translation is 100% all the way. But I don't think it's stupid to complain for a product you have paid for, to have at least some kind of effort to put into it.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on March 26, 2009, 04:36:14 PM
I'm just happy they didn't go with some lame Knight of Skeleton type of translation. Would you have preferred "Flower Typhoon Emperor"? Or maybe you've got a better translation?

Yes, we do have a better one as a matter of fact (see the corresponding episode thread). Because we actually use a translation, whereas DH doesn't. And for your information, "Flower Typhoon Emperor" was Walter's deliberate try to emulate a bad translation.

I'm just saying that it seems stupid to complain, since there probably isn't any translation that would make you purists 100% happy.

What's stupid is to talk about something when you're absolutely unqualified to do so (talking about you here).

EDIT: And do we actually have any proof that the king's proper name isn't Hanafubuku?

See above.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: BLG on March 26, 2009, 05:11:03 PM
Aaz it would be helpful if you included more information and less rudeness in your posts.

Anyway, I still think some people will never be content with any translations. This thread is full of complaints about pretty trivial things and every time a new DH volume is published more of them come in. Relax! It's just a manga!

Overall the DH releases are damn wonderful and I'm extremely happy they picked it up instead of some other company. 99% of readers (the not-so-hardcore fans) probably couldn't care less about the nitpicking going on here, and thanks to DH they can have a 99% authentic Berserk experience, which should be enough for anyone except the angriest purists here.

Of course if you really don't like the DH releases, you don't have to buy them. Just remember that for every DH release you don't buy, I'll buy two! :rakshas:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: TheBranded1 on March 26, 2009, 05:21:00 PM


Anyway, I still think some people will never be content with any translations. This thread is full of complaints about pretty trivial things and every time a new DH volume is published more of them come in. Relax! It's just a manga!

It's not about being just satisfied with any translation, at least try to translate it, which is what their work is for. You know t-r-a-n-s-l-a-t-o-r Complaints are made when something doesn't seem right or fit in my opinion. I don't think this something trivial. I wouldn't like it if someone was translating my work and not paying close attention to my work. It may be a manga, but from all the work and effort Miura puts into it, I would like it to be as good as the japanese one.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on March 26, 2009, 05:24:47 PM
Aaz it would be helpful if you included more information and less rudeness in your posts.
Actually, you're the lone conductor on the rudeness train so far in this thread. I said that DH had copped out on the Hanafubuku translation, and your simple retort was that we're just purists. Thanks. And anyway, if by that you mean we're so insane that we'd prefer Berserk's details to actually be translated instead of skipped over, then sure, label us purists if you'd like.

Quote
Anyway, I still think some people will never be content with any translations. This thread is full of complaints about pretty trivial things and every time a new DH volume is published more of them come in. Relax! It's just a manga!
So, the details on the name of a being likely to be extremely important in the future being ignored is "pretty trivial"? I guess you'd just rather not know it? That's a better solution? Also , sure it's "just" a manga, but it's one that we all here care about very deeply and want it to get the best treatment possible. Dark Horse has fallen off the respect wagon several times in the past -- the blurbs on the back of the books aside. For newcomers to the series, I'm sure Dark Horse appears to be doing amazing things, but for those of us that have been reading translations of Berserk for more than 9 years, mistakes are hard to miss.

Quote
Overall the DH releases are damn wonderful and I'm extremely happy they picked it up instead of some other company. 99% of readers (the not-so-hardcore fans) probably couldn't care less about the nitpicking going on here, and thanks to DH they can have a 99% authentic Berserk experience, which should be enough for anyone except the angriest purists here.
I think your statistics here are 99% bullshit. And I don't really know why you're referring to us as angry. We'd just like it done properly, with as little "grooviness" as possible.

Quote
Of course if you really don't like the DH releases, you don't have to buy them. Just remember that for every DH release you don't buy, I'll buy two! :rakshas:
I stopped buying them until they got their act together with the Sound Effects dillema. But now they've sorted it out to an acceptable degree, and I'm happily back on the wagon. Still, as a paying customer I don't see why I should be berated as a purist for questioning their decisions, when I know of solutions myself. Seems counter intuitive, unless you're a DH zealot =).
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: BLG on March 26, 2009, 05:56:05 PM
I don't know if I can really achieve anything by replying here. But I'll do it anyway. (Ain't that crazy!)

I enjoy berserk immensely like everyone here and would like to see the English edition done in a huge format on pristine clear paper with gilded covers (okay, maybe not those...). A 100-man translating group that comes to skullknight.net every day to ask for the best translations would be great too. But I try to be realistic, and realistically DH has done a good job.

Translation problems with names etc. are annoying, but they hardly ruin the manga. Even if Guts' was translated as "John" it wouldn't ruin the story. I understand that is an extreme example, but still.

People who have read Berserk translations for a long time of course have their own perfect version of the series somewhere deep in their minds and get easily irritated about mistakes. However, what I meant by a 99% authentic Berserk experience is that for people new to the series, the DH releases offer a good English version that I think successfully conveys that special Berserk feeling. That is what I think is most important.

Also, I apologize for sounding rude.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on March 26, 2009, 06:01:50 PM
I don't know if I can really achieve anything by replying here. But I'll do it anyway. (Ain't that crazy!)
I'm not sure you'd convince a three-year-old of the justice of your argument, which is apparently that mistakes and omissions are OK to make because people that don't know they exist will never know they're missing.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: BLG on March 26, 2009, 06:05:57 PM
I'm not sure you'd convince a three-year-old of the justice of your argument, which is apparently that mistakes and omissions are OK to make because people that don't know they exist will never know they're missing.

I'm not saying it's OK, just that it's not as serious as you seem to think it is.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Jaze1618 on March 26, 2009, 06:09:05 PM
BLG-
Do you work for Dark Horse during the day responding to fan/hate mail?

It's possible I've projected this on you, but I sense some residual bitterness.

EDIT: minus your reply right before this one
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on March 26, 2009, 06:12:59 PM
I'm not saying it's OK, just that it's not as serious as you seem to think it is.
Wow, I think you're fabricating the problems here. Did I say their errors were so serious that they've stopped me from buying the product? Did I say these errors were the end of the world? No, you simply read that into me at some point. I said it was a cop out for them not to translate Hanafubuku. ... Is it not?

Are we really back to square one here?  :schierke:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: BLG on March 26, 2009, 06:25:41 PM
BLG-
Do you work for Dark Horse during the day responding to fan/hate mail?

It's possible I've projected this on you, but I sense some residual bitterness.

I just like Dark Horse, they translate many wonderful series and their translations are usually top-notch. I guess I got a bit aggravated because I wanted to put things into perspective here. DH is one of the best translating companies around and it was irritating to see so many complaints, since there would probably be even more had Berserk been picked up by some other company.

Wow, I think you're fabricating the problems here. Did I say their errors were so serious that they've stopped me from buying the product? Did I say these errors were the end of the world? No, you simply read that into me at some point. I said it was a cop out for them not to translate Hanafubuku. ... Is it not?

Are we really back to square one here?  :schierke:

You think they copped out by not translating Hanafubuku and I think they made a good conscious decision by not trying to translate something pretty much untranslateable.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. :serpico:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on March 26, 2009, 06:29:07 PM
I just like Dark Horse, they translate many wonderful series and their translations are usually top-notch. I guess I got a bit aggravated because I wanted to put things into perspective here. DH is one of the best translating companies around and it was irritating to see so many complaints, since there would probably be even more had Berserk been picked up by some other company.
I wouldn't be so quick to sing the praises of Dark Horse.  They actually don't even do their own translation work for Berserk. They farm it out to "Digital Manga." DH just publishes it. I guess it's just not important enough to them  :void:

Have you read anything Viz has done under their Editor's Choice line? It's better than Dark Horses', Vagabond's translator is on staff, and has even met with the creator. Had DH not picked up Berserk immediately, I have a strong feeling Viz would have. They're the dominant force in the US manga translation industry, and have far more capital and talent than DH have.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: BLG on March 26, 2009, 06:41:03 PM
I wouldn't be so quick to sing the praises of Dark Horse.  They actually don't even do their own translation work for Berserk. They farm it out to "Digital Manga." DH just publishes it. I guess it's just not important enough to them  :void:

Yeah, Digital Manga Publishing does pretty much all of Dark Horse's manga translations and they're the ones who I think do a good job.

Have you read anything Viz has done under their Editor's Choice line? It's better than Dark Horses', Vagabond's translator is on staff, and has even met with the creator. Had DH not picked up Berserk immediately, I have a strong feeling Viz would have. They're the dominant force in the US manga translation industry, and have far more capital and talent than DH have.

That's true, Viz's Editor's Choice line is pretty good, although I don't like what they do to the japanese sound effects. I don't really like Berserk's "FX" texts either, but at least they're not in the way these days. As far as I know DH is the only major publisher that leaves effects totally untranslated (which is the way they should be) for almost every other manga than Berserk.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on March 26, 2009, 06:41:29 PM
Aaz it would be helpful if you included more information and less rudeness in your posts.

Sorry if the truth hurts, but I wasn't being rude in the least, and I believe my posts are perfectly appropriate in regard to what I'm replying to. I also have no incentive to provide people with information they can find themselves with minimal effort when they display such a blatant combination of arrogance and ignorance.

Anyway, I still think some people will never be content with any translations.

So not translating is the way to go, obviously! That's what you're defending here. Do you realize how ridiculous it sounds?

This thread is full of complaints about pretty trivial things and every time a new DH volume is published more of them come in. Relax! It's just a manga!

Trivial says who? This forum is dedicated to Berserk. Do you expect people not to analyze it in detail or deeply care about it? Would you tell a stamp collector "relax, they're just stamps"? As far as SK.net is concerned, you can be sure that Berserk is serious business.

Of course if you really don't like the DH releases, you don't have to buy them. Just remember that for every DH release you don't buy, I'll buy two! :rakshas:

I'd like that actually. Please buy the whole series twice and take a picture of it. That'd earn you back some of my respect.

A 100-man translating group that comes to skullknight.net every day to ask for the best translations would be great too. But I try to be realistic, and realistically DH has done a good job.

Don't be ridiculous. Getting a few talented people, hell even just one very good translator and giving them time would largely suffice. And no need to come ask us anything either.

Translation problems with names etc. are annoying, but they hardly ruin the manga. Even if Guts' was translated as "John" it wouldn't ruin the story. I understand that is an extreme example, but still.

I hope you understand as well that your personal opinion isn't a fact and that most readers would disagree with you.

However, what I meant by a 99% authentic Berserk experience is that for people new to the series, the DH releases offer a good English version that I think successfully conveys that special Berserk feeling. That is what I think is most important.

But the problem is that you aren't qualified to judge whether it's good or not. And it's not that good, just so you know.

You think they copped out by not translating Hanafubuku and I think they made a good conscious decision by not trying to translate something pretty much untranslateable.

It's not untranslatable, and they've actually badly translated things that are very difficult to translate before. You have no point, you're just embarrassing yourself by arguing about things you don't understand. Please stop.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Ramen4ever on March 26, 2009, 07:31:35 PM
Translation problems with names etc. are annoying, but they hardly ruin the manga. Even if Guts' was translated as "John" it wouldn't ruin the story. I understand that is an extreme example, but still.

Yeah.. I see what you mean.  :schierke:
http://i39.tinypic.com/iwm3x0.png

Personally, I'm at an impasse. I can't buy the dark horse releases because of the obvious mistakes and I can't buy the Japanese version because a lot of translations are missing from the encyclopedia. I'm fucked either way.  :sad:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on March 26, 2009, 07:45:39 PM
Personally, I'm at an impasse. I can't buy the dark horse releases because of the obvious mistakes and I can't buy the Japanese version because a lot of translations are missing from the encyclopedia. I'm fucked either way.  :sad:

You've got to buy an edition in any case, lest you suffer my eternal scorn. :azan:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Ramen4ever on March 26, 2009, 09:04:18 PM
You've got to buy an edition in any case, lest you suffer my eternal scorn. :azan:

Aazealh, the Berserk manga salesman of terror.  :isidro:
Don't worry about me, I'll buy the manga sooner or later. I'm just not interested in buying a product that doesn't satisfy my expectations. I'm not in the lenient camp when it comes to sound effects and incorrect translations.  :zodd:

Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on March 26, 2009, 09:27:37 PM
Don't worry about me, I'll buy the manga sooner or later. I'm just not interested in buying a product that doesn't satisfy my expectations. I'm not in the lenient camp when it comes to sound effects and incorrect translations.  :zodd:

Yeah, well I'm not in the lenient camp when it comes to buying sooner than later. :miura:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Ramen4ever on March 26, 2009, 09:40:40 PM
Yeah, well I'm not in the lenient camp when it comes to buying sooner than later. :miura:

Yeah, well it's my money.  :griff:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Slime_Beherit on March 26, 2009, 09:43:35 PM
Yeah.. I see what you mean.  :schierke:
http://i39.tinypic.com/iwm3x0.png

Personally, I'm at an impasse. I can't buy the dark horse releases because of the obvious mistakes and I can't buy the Japanese version because a lot of translations are missing from the encyclopedia. I'm fucked either way.  :sad:


I bought the Japanese versions even though i can't read them, sure i can't really take them on the go (well only to look at the amazing drawings), but at least this way i feel like I'm supporting Miura a little and not stealing such a epic tale.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on March 26, 2009, 10:06:09 PM
Yeah, well it's my money.  :griff:

You disappoint me, Ramen. And I didn't have high expectations.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Griffith on March 26, 2009, 11:00:19 PM
Yeah, well it's my money. :griff:

It's also your right to remain silent. :griff:

Which is better than proliferating excuses on the board. I'm the biggest Dark Horse detractor here, and they still had enough value for me to purchase. And if you've truly, ahem, never seen translations other than those available here, then one would think the DH volumes would be an even more desirable investment for you. The Japanese volumes are also available with translation from acclimatesolutions, so there are no excuses. Put up, or shut up, please.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: SaiyajinNoOuji on March 26, 2009, 11:08:13 PM
I bought the Japanese versions even though i can't read them, sure i can't really take them on the go (well only to look at the amazing drawings), but at least this way i feel like I'm supporting Miura a little and not stealing such a epic tale.
Thats how I roll... then again I make my wife tell me a Berserk bed time story before I go to bed.  :carcus:

 :sad:-"Please sweety, read me the story again about how the troll ripped his way out of that poor girls stomach!"

 :schierke:- "Ok, just this one time!"

 :ganishka:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on March 27, 2009, 04:22:04 PM
Yeah, well it's my money.  :griff:
Yep, and this is my forum, with rules clearly posted stating that if you partake of our translations and scans, you are expected to purchase the manga in some official form as a way to support it. What kind of fan are you, exactly?

Quote from: SKnet Rules, under Serious Infractions
[Do not] Partake in the unauthorized use or distribution of SK.net translations. The translations our members work on are meant for the SK.net community only, to read along with the Japanese volumes of Berserk they purchase.
and
Quote from: Rules for Current Episodes
1. By downloading Berserk episodes from this website, you swear to this community on your honor that you will purchase the Japanese volume(s) they will be published in, whenever they will be available for sale.

Obviously, we can't check the receipts of every member, and under normal circumstances, this is an understood fact that is supposed to happen behind the scenes. However, you've made your non-support status of Berserk public knowledge now, and so I must deliver you an ultimatum.

Provide proof that you a paying fan of the series within 1 week's time, or your account will be removed.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Jaze1618 on March 29, 2009, 01:40:14 AM
I'm wondering what others thought of the Story of the Kite and the Hawk at the end of Volume 28? I thought the language was a bit weak to the original scans that I read before I found SK.NET, as per usual I suspect that it's me, and I'll get used to it soon enough.

In anycase it's amazing the level of detail that you can miss when you read berserk online vs live and in person. I had never noticed that Isidro gets a bottle smashed on his head, presumably for stealing the pumpkin, when he's trying to find Schierke.

Lastly,

I really hope we don't pay the price later if/and when the meaning behind king hanafabuku's name is revealed.

Namaste
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on March 29, 2009, 08:51:55 AM
I really hope we don't pay the price later if/and when the meaning behind king hanafabuku's name is revealed.

But we already know what it means... A storm of falling flowers, which is most likely referring to Japanese cherry blossoms. For reference, the panel in which his name is mentioned:

(http://aazealh.net/Divers/Hanafubuku-Oh.jpg)

Try typing "花吹雪" in Google Image Search and look what the results are.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Kalie Ma on April 02, 2009, 04:04:40 AM
It seems like DH sold very many copies of their volume 28 because my amazon order was pushed back saying they had sold out!! I couldn't believe it now I have to wait at least two weeksbefore they ship another one ... ... ... I guess it means DH is succesful at least?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on April 02, 2009, 07:10:19 AM
I guess it means DH is succesful at least?

Berserk is quite popular in the USA, there's absolutely no doubt about it. Maybe this means DH will release a deluxe edition one of these days. :serpico:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on April 02, 2009, 04:58:14 PM
Berserk is quite popular in the USA, there's absolutely no doubt about it. Maybe this means DH will release a deluxe edition one of these days. :serpico:

One can only hope. If they do I hope they include the colored pages with actual color like Viz does with Vagabond.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Xem on April 04, 2009, 06:53:37 PM
I bought the new volume a few days ago but haven't been able to read it (only flip through it briefly to look for printing errors) because my girl keeps taking it with her everywhere.  :judo: I suppose I should be happy though, at least shes really into it. At the moment she's in the process of trying to convince a couple of her friends to read it at which point I found out that one of them had only seen the anime, and what's worse she only saw the Eclipse! Man, that would suck, what a spoiler.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Oburi on April 04, 2009, 07:37:47 PM
One can only hope. If they do I hope they include the colored pages with actual color like Viz does with Vagabond.

Is that how the Japanese editions are?

To Deci - That's cool your girl is into berserk. Like I was telling Bob, there's nothing better than being able to discuss your most loved manga with your love one.  You should be happy!
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on April 05, 2009, 04:38:01 AM
Is that how the Japanese editions are?

I'm not sure.  Griffith or one of the other Vagabond fanatics on this site would probably be able to answer that question.  I only recently got into the series after I saw so many people here reading it.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on April 05, 2009, 04:54:53 AM
Honestly I'm a little unsure of what Rhombaad is referring to. But ... the earlier episodes (such as those in vols 1-4), had some really lightly-colored pages when they were first published in Animal House and Young Animal, but they're just black and white in the Japanese tankoubons so ... it's not like DH is skipping a step or anything.

These pages can be see in the Illustrations File.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on April 05, 2009, 06:49:18 AM
Honestly I'm a little unsure of what Rhombaad is referring to. But ... the earlier episodes (such as those in vols 1-4), had some really lightly-colored pages when they were first published in Animal House and Young Animal, but they're just black and white in the Japanese tankoubons so ... it's not like DH is skipping a step or anything.

These pages can be see in the Illustrations File.

Yep, those are the ones I'm talking about.  I know they're black and white in the original Japanese tankoubons, but if DH were able to somehow get the colored versions into the American releases, they'd sort of be the definitive volumes.  Griffith and I discussed this at one point in the chat room; it's really just wishful thinking though.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Oburi on April 05, 2009, 07:05:14 AM
Honestly I'm a little unsure of what Rhombaad is referring to. But ... the earlier episodes (such as those in vols 1-4), had some really lightly-colored pages when they were first published in Animal House and Young Animal, but they're just black and white in the Japanese tankoubons so ... it's not like DH is skipping a step or anything.

These pages can be see in the Illustrations File.

Yea that's what I was wondering, thanks!

And yea I don't think you'll ever see those colored pages in any type of deluxe reissue darkhorse does for Berserk.  And as Walter pointed out, it's good that darkhorse isn't skipping a step now, but I would doubt it for them to take an extra step and go above and beyond the quality of work of the Japanese editions.  first they got to change that berserk logo!
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on April 05, 2009, 07:24:41 AM
And yea I don't think you'll ever see those colored pages in any type of deluxe reissue darkhorse does for Berserk.  And as Walter pointed out, it's good that darkhorse isn't skipping a step now, but I would doubt it for them to take an extra step and go above and beyond the quality of work of the Japanese editions.

Don't be so negative, if they did a deluxe edition, they could be ambitious about it. :serpico:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on April 05, 2009, 01:39:37 PM
Don't be so negative, if they did a deluxe edition, they could be ambitious about it. :serpico:
Being an owner of most of the DH volumes, I can understand his pessimism. Many of the pages, particularly throughout the 13-18 run, aren't even centered on the page properly, with white boxes and printing instructions visible outside the pages' borders. There's several instances where the speech bubbles are outside the bound area (too far into the crease to read) and other printing errors. These are all things I've never even seen happen in other manga I've bought. Certainly not in the japanese editions ...

This all adds up to me believing that DH doesn't really have a very strict publishing standards, or even care about the quality of the product  :sad:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: avidwriter on April 05, 2009, 04:55:42 PM
This all adds up to me believing that DH doesn't really have a very strict publishing standards, or even care about the quality of the product  :sad:

It would seem. My guess would be printing on a large scale you get some errors in bulk now and then. I have some volumes where the problems you've mentioned occur often and others where I don't notice it at all. It's unfortunate but its the only source we have if we don't have to have to read a translation or read Japanese. :judo:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Jaze1618 on April 07, 2009, 03:11:04 AM
Something about the marketing for the US releases on the Darkhorse website really bothers me.

All of the pages for individual volumes 13 and up have the following blurb on them 3 paragraphs down from the main description:

"* Beginning with volume 13, the Dark Horse editions of Berserk contain material never-before-adapted to anime!"
http://www.darkhorse.com/Books/15-721/Berserk-Volume-29-TPB

I don't know how long they have been using this bit of mis-information, and I kind of see what they are going for, but in truth
Volumes: 1, 2, 3, 4, 9, 10, 11, and 12 all contain material never-before-adapted to anime.

Albeit volumes 4 and 12 only have 25 or so pages of said  un-adapted material and volume  9 has what i'd guess is 35-50 pages...

Am I just being nit picky here, or is this something they would want to be informed of? I would be happy to write them about it. Does anyone know the correct place to send something like this?

Thanks for you feedback
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Oburi on April 07, 2009, 05:22:35 AM
I don't really think thats a big deal to be perfectly honest. It's just a marketing phrase to make anyone who has seen the anime to buy the manga. I wouldn't write them a letter telling them all the reasons why that is untrue...I'm sure they know. Seriously, there are so many other more important things to write them a letter about other than this.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on April 07, 2009, 06:57:03 AM
volume  9 has what i'd guess is 35-50 pages...

More than that.

Am I just being nit picky here, or is this something they would want to be informed of? I would be happy to write them about it. Does anyone know the correct place to send something like this?

Honestly I think you're just being picky. And I doubt they'd care about it enough to change the way they're advertising the series.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Jaze1618 on April 07, 2009, 05:51:16 PM
Well just as long as they are not misleading the fans of the anime who would want to see the entire berserk series and would happily buy earlier volumes if it meant more things in the story after the eclipse would be explained.

Do people who only pick up volume 13 and beyond really think Skull knight had no other introduction, or that
Guts and Puck met during a two year gap featured in vol 14 but never had a true introduction?

Or maybe they seek out a forum ask questions on these specific instances.

Ok I've said my peace on the issue if there are no further takers. Thanks everyone for your feedback. I have a past history of arguing with others in on different forums who think the berserk anime is a fine replacement for volumes 1-12, and would try to direct other first timers down that road.. which is probably why this struck a chord with me in the first time.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on April 07, 2009, 07:07:44 PM
I have a past history of arguing with others in on different forums who think the berserk anime is a fine replacement for volumes 1-12, and would try to direct other first timers down that road.. which is probably why this struck a chord with me in the first time.

Well, I think you know what my take on that issue would be, right? :miura:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Oburi on April 07, 2009, 07:42:03 PM
Well just as long as they are not misleading the fans of the anime who would want to see the entire berserk series and would happily buy earlier volumes if it meant more things in the story after the eclipse would be explained.

Do people who only pick up volume 13 and beyond really think Skull knight had no other introduction, or that
Guts and Puck met during a two year gap featured in vol 14 but never had a true introduction?

Or maybe they seek out a forum ask questions on these specific instances.

Ok I've said my peace on the issue if there are no further takers. Thanks everyone for your feedback. I have a past history of arguing with others in on different forums who think the berserk anime is a fine replacement for volumes 1-12, and would try to direct other first timers down that road.. which is probably why this struck a chord with me in the first time.

Any true fan, or anyone with a hint of intelligence, would never substitute the anime for the actual books. And if they do, I wouldn't even bother trying to help them. It's their loss.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Cronus on April 08, 2009, 12:47:23 AM
Think of the anime show as a gateway drug to the manga addiction and everyone will get past it  :badbone:

I can see both sides of the argument that's happened over the past few pages.  DH farms out the translation to a company that basically does JUST that, to reduce their own costs and bring what people want (which is Berserk in english) in a reasonable timeframe.  They have a guy who we all know and love who does the editing and has to make some judgement calls.  Some are good, some are not so good, some are ugly.  Keep in mind that the outcomes would have to do with a lot of factors, such as: is this guy a big fan?  Does he have a basic grasp of the language?  Is it OK per Hakusensha to say it this way?  In what context is this spoken?  I haven't done translation in years, but I know that context is certainly the hardest part to grasp at least for me.

So while there are some gripes you have to admit, it is certainly nice to have a copy that is fairly easy to pick up and read, and let others read it.  Part of my enjoyment of a book or story is sharing it with others.  The anime used to be the way to do it, but DH has made it to where even my GF can read it because she wants to see why I like it so much.  Admittedly it's not her cup of tea, but at least she kind of gets it.  Before, sharing Berserk meant a shitload of researching on your own or listening to some supernerd prattle on which probably isn't the best idea particularly since I have been guilty of it  :serpico:

I sent the DH guys a couple of emails with a few small grievances and the best I can hope for is that they might change it sometime in a new edition or going forward.  In the end, having Berserk in English on my doorstep every couple of months kicks ass and I'll still buy it.

At least until we catch up.

And then the pain begins again.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Oburi on April 08, 2009, 02:18:57 AM
Excellent post, Cronus. I agree, there is nothing better than having the manga in English and being able to share it with friends, and for that, I am grateful to Darkhorse. However I will continue being critical of their performance seeing as how Berserk means so much to me.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: BLG on April 08, 2009, 07:20:27 PM
So while there are some gripes you have to admit, it is certainly nice to have a copy that is fairly easy to pick up and read, and let others read it.  Part of my enjoyment of a book or story is sharing it with others.  The anime used to be the way to do it, but DH has made it to where even my GF can read it because she wants to see why I like it so much.  Admittedly it's not her cup of tea, but at least she kind of gets it.  Before, sharing Berserk meant a shitload of researching on your own or listening to some supernerd prattle on which probably isn't the best idea particularly since I have been guilty of it  :serpico:

I sent the DH guys a couple of emails with a few small grievances and the best I can hope for is that they might change it sometime in a new edition or going forward.  In the end, having Berserk in English on my doorstep every couple of months kicks ass and I'll still buy it.

My thoughts exactly. The translations might not be up to everyone's expectations, but I'm still grateful for having Berserk in English. Endless discussion about what if's is a bit pointless.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on April 08, 2009, 09:14:49 PM
The translations might not be up to everyone's expectations, but I'm still grateful for having Berserk in English.

Generally speaking, the simple fact that a commercial service is available doesn't automatically excuse said service for its poor quality. Especially since people are paying for it. Dark Horse isn't doing you a favor by releasing Berserk in English, they're deriving profit from a popular series. And if they weren't, someone else would be.

Endless discussion about what if's is a bit pointless.

Endless discussion about every aspect of Dark Horse's edition of Berserk is the purpose of this thread. That includes criticism and suggestions as to what could make it better. If you have nothing worth contributing, please refrain from posting in the future.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: BLG on April 09, 2009, 05:28:59 AM
Generally speaking, the simple fact that a commercial service is available doesn't automatically excuse said service for its poor quality. Especially since people are paying for it. Dark Horse isn't doing you a favor by releasing Berserk in English, they're deriving profit from a popular series. And if they weren't, someone else would be.

Well, why are people here buying the DH releases? I get the feeling they want to support the publishing of Berserk in English, so I guess in that way they are grateful to DH. I guess it would be just the same if any other company had licensed it, but the way things are now we're all pouring money into DH's massive treasure vaults. What's your excuse?

Endless discussion about every aspect of Dark Horse's edition of Berserk is the purpose of this thread. That includes criticism and suggestions as to what could make it better. If you have nothing worth contributing, please refrain from posting in the future.

Criticism and suggestions are all fine by me. It's just that it sometimes feels like people can't put things into perspective.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on April 09, 2009, 07:08:04 AM
Well, why are people here buying the DH releases? I get the feeling they want to support the publishing of Berserk in English, so I guess in that way they are grateful to DH.

No, they're buying it because they want to read Berserk both in English and in a convenient format they can own. And I fail to see how that relates to my point anyway.

I guess it would be just the same if any other company had licensed it

Obviously.

the way things are now we're all pouring money into DH's massive treasure vaults. What's your excuse?

Excuse for what? Did you not understand what I told you?

Criticism and suggestions are all fine by me. It's just that it sometimes feels like people can't put things into perspective.

Sounds to me like you are the one who can't put things into perspective, and who's been posting pointlessly in this thread. What are you doing here exactly, complaining about people complaining? Arguing that fans should have lower standards? Just so you know, it's not going to happen, so why don't you do us all a favor and stop wasting everybody's time, yours included? By the way, if discussions about "what ifs" aren't fine by you, then how could suggestions about hypothetical ameliorations be? They're the same thing.

The people you decry here have been pointing out real, existing flaws that could be fixed if DH was willing to go the extra mile (or voicing out things they'd like to see in a deluxe edition if it were to be made). And if they feel there's a demand for it, they just might. Just like they changed the release schedule to a faster one when people asked for it. You, however, have added nothing constructive to the discussion.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Bekul on April 09, 2009, 07:12:55 AM
Me, I got the DH releases because while keeping up with the translations here (thanks eternally to the fan translators!) did sort of keep me up to date with what's going on in the Berserk world, the art itself is stunningly great to see, and searching out illegal 'scanlataions' or whatever they're called, is just a moral boundry I could never bring myself to cross.

Plus, they look beautiful, all lined up on my bookshelf.  :slan:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on April 09, 2009, 01:39:01 PM
BLG, as I've already said multiple times in this thread, I am buying and supporting the DH releases as they come out. I already own most of them. However, while on the whole the translations are good, there is room for improvement, and sometimes it appears they're just being lazy about them.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: avidwriter on April 27, 2009, 09:29:48 PM
26 filled up my top shelf on my book case so starting with 27 I had to double layer it, not sure what I'm gonna do yet, don't think I want to stack them. Doubt that's good for the books. Its conflicting now, I want 28 etc to come out faster but within about a year we'll be caught up to Japan and the wait will be even longer so its bad either way really.  :mozgus:

Any ideas for how to store the manga? My other shelves are full and I don't want to invest in another bookcase. Any unique ideas or am I out of luck here?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on April 27, 2009, 11:01:40 PM
26 filled up my top shelf on my book case so starting with 27 I had to double layer it, not sure what I'm gonna do yet, don't think I want to stack them. Doubt that's good for the books. Its conflicting now, I want 28 etc to come out faster but within about a year we'll be caught up to Japan and the wait will be even longer so its bad either way really.  :mozgus:

Any ideas for how to store the manga? My other shelves are full and I don't want to invest in another bookcase. Any unique ideas or am I out of luck here?
Mine fill up just 2 rows on a bookcase, japanese and english editions. I'd suggest selling off those _other_ books that are cluttering your Berserk space  :void:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Jaze1618 on April 27, 2009, 11:05:35 PM
Mine fill up just 2 rows on a bookcase, japanese and english editions. I'd suggest selling off those _other_ books that are cluttering your Berserk space  :void:

:serpico:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: LoveHerMadly on May 03, 2009, 10:09:24 AM
As a totally random note, starting with volume 31 the series' price will be increased from 13.95 to 14.95.
*gasp* NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!</sarcasm>
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: robinhood on May 10, 2009, 09:37:00 PM
really? why- are the those volumes longer or something?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on May 10, 2009, 09:46:52 PM
Are the those volumes longer or something?

Nope. Volume 31 has the same number of pages than volume 30.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: avidwriter on May 10, 2009, 10:40:11 PM
Possibly because of the longer gaps. However its more likely just because their cost translate, print etc is going up.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Proj2501 on May 11, 2009, 02:28:25 AM
Well I just hit up Books Kinokuniya and got me my Berserk 28, along with Vagabond 28-29. Which reminds I need to wander up the road to Vagabond Inn one o' these days.

Back to DH's 28. Did anyone else get a volume where the posters have multicolored squares all over one side of each poster? It sucks. I mean I own all the Japanese volumes, but I don't know what happened with this one. Is it just me or is this the case with everyone? Go Dark Horse.
 :schierke:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on May 11, 2009, 03:19:16 AM
Back to DH's 28. Did anyone else get a volume where the posters have multicolored squares all over one side of each poster? It sucks. I mean I own all the Japanese volumes, but I don't know what happened with this one. Is it just me or is this the case with everyone? Go Dark Horse. :schierke:

The posters that came with mine look normal to me.  Sorry man, it looks like you got a bad copy. :(
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on May 11, 2009, 07:24:21 AM
Back to DH's 28. Did anyone else get a volume where the posters have multicolored squares all over one side of each poster? It sucks. I mean I own all the Japanese volumes, but I don't know what happened with this one. Is it just me or is this the case with everyone? Go Dark Horse.
 :schierke:

Looks like a printing mishap, like Rhombaad said. I suggest you get it exchanged for a good copy as soon as possible.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Death May Die on May 21, 2009, 09:13:54 PM
I just want to post my pace. Eventually I'll make a animation or something with pictures.

Week 1 (4/29/09)
Volume 18 (Ironically 18 is my lucky number)

Week 2  (5/13/09)
Volume 1, 24

Week 3 (5/23/09)
Volume 2,3,5

(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn242/diehighfly05/PICT0005.jpg?t=1242944169)

And on we go. ($15.00 a pop)

-Pay no attention to the camera clock, it tells me its wrong everytime I turn it on too lol.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on May 21, 2009, 09:20:26 PM
And on we go. ($15.00 a pop)

-Pay no attention to the camera clock, it tells me its wrong everytime I turn it on too lol.
You can get them for $11 on Amazon. Order 3 at a time like I do and you get free shipping. (even more insane prices elsewhere: http://product.half.ebay.com/Berserk-17_W0QQtgZinfoQQprZ59064046)

Also, your camera clock is off.  :troll:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Death May Die on May 21, 2009, 09:22:24 PM
I have money, I find a little bit of pride buying them for $15.00 each.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Jaze1618 on May 21, 2009, 09:33:58 PM
Ditto.

However,

Buying them from Amazon for 11.00 may still give Miura the same amount of royalties as buying them from your local comic book store for 15.00. I have a few engineering friends at Amazon and as a company they are amazing at eliminating waste and finding lots and lots of innovative ways to keep cost down and be a  on line retailer with competitive prices despite costs of shipping.

As a fan of berserk I wouldn't buy them for $2.50 at the other site as that money almost certainly is not going to Miura. I imagine much like in the video game industry when you buy (albeit used) games like new from gamestop, a week after it came out, for $10 less than the price of a brand new game.  The game publishers, or developers aren't getting any more money from those sales but Gamestop make profits from their markup on the initial sale, and then they make a killing on the many returned games games they get and resell a week after its been released



 
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on May 21, 2009, 10:19:42 PM
I understand all that,and Im not trying to antagonize. I appreciate Death posting his collection.

I only provided the extremely cheap link as a defense against some fans who say buying the series is too expensive (i.e. fucking idiots).
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on May 21, 2009, 11:11:38 PM
Slowly getting there, Death May Die! Slowly, but surely! :guts:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Jaze1618 on May 22, 2009, 12:01:57 AM
I understand all that,and Im not trying to antagonize. I appreciate Death posting his collection.

I only provided the extremely cheap link as a defense against some fans who say buying the series is too expensive (i.e. fucking idiots).

Walter, I hope I did not come off as if I were reprimanding anyone. I only meant to reinforce that it is good to know who you're dollars are supporting, and if who they are supporting is in alignment with your principles, then by all means keep doing it. 

I however have to have Berserk the first week and would not wait to buy three at once for 11.00 on Amazon with the free shipping. I will pay 15.00 for that luxury
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on May 22, 2009, 01:09:55 AM
Way to go, Death! You'll have the whole series in no time! :guts:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: OmegaSeamaster on May 22, 2009, 09:24:50 PM
I noticed that on Dark Horse's website, each volume of Berserk is available for purchase (through TFAW.com) except for volume 15.

Amazon, Barnes & Noble and Borders all show it as unavailable.

Was there something wrong with the initial print run? Is Dark Horse reissuing it for some reason?

Luckily I ran down to my local Kinokuniya bookstore and grabbed it, but the whole situation seems really strange.

Didn't know if anyone could shed light on the subject....

 :???:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on May 22, 2009, 09:29:53 PM
I think they just didn't print enough. I had trouble tracking it down recently as well. There was a loooong delay in it shipping out of Amazon (3 weeks). WHen I checked back after it shipped, I saw there were "only 2 copies available, order now!" So, I'd say they probably just didn't print enough.

I guess this is a good sign? :serpico:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: OmegaSeamaster on May 23, 2009, 04:46:11 PM
That's surprising, given how long the volume's been available. But good news for Berserk in general from a sales perspective.

At first I feared there was some grievous error in translation that needed to be rectified in a 2nd edition, so they were letting the 1st die out before putting it into circulation.

 
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Henry Spencer on May 27, 2009, 09:11:51 PM
I have had trouble, myself, acquiring the Dark Horse releases too, they always appear to be out of stock (this happened with me, for at least three volumes). Thankfully, I found another provider to buy from. It is good to hear that it is selling this well, wherabouts would you wager the sales of the manga out of Dark Horses' catalogue? In the top five? Or is that too optimistic?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on May 27, 2009, 09:23:20 PM
It is good to hear that it is selling this well, wherabouts would you wager the sales of the manga out of Dark Horses' catalogue? In the top five? Or is that too optimistic?

Berserk is actually Dark Horse's best selling manga. Here are some informative links:

http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/13211.html (http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/13211.html)
http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/13994.html (http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/13994.html)
http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/13691.html (http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/13691.html)
http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/14313.html (http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/14313.html)
http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/14744.html (http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/14744.html)
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Slime_Beherit on May 27, 2009, 09:41:59 PM
Berserk is actually Dark Horse's best selling manga. Here are some informative links:

so that's why DH is raising the price for Berserk

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2009-05-26/some-viz-dark-horse-manga-titles-increase-in-price (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2009-05-26/some-viz-dark-horse-manga-titles-increase-in-price)
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Henry Spencer on May 27, 2009, 10:16:26 PM
Berserk is actually Dark Horse's best selling manga. Here are some informative links:

http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/13211.html (http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/13211.html)
http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/13994.html (http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/13994.html)
http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/13691.html (http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/13691.html)
http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/14313.html (http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/14313.html)
http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/14744.html (http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/14744.html)

lol

Guess that settles it then. I'm quite surprised, considering some of the property that DH have (not that I'm saying Berserk isn't better, but I always hear about other mangas by DH moreso) so it's a really pleasant surprise to me to hear that. Thanks for the links.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Death May Die on May 28, 2009, 10:47:50 PM
Quote
Week 1 (4/29/09)
Volume 18 (Ironically 18 is my lucky number)

Week 2  (5/13/09)
Volume 1, 24

Week 3 (5/23/09)
Volume 2,3,5

UPDATE

Week 4 (5/28/09)
Volume 6, 29


Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Jaze1618 on May 30, 2009, 04:05:25 AM
I also grabbed volume 29 today. Still only $13.95. Wasn't it reported to be going up in price?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Death May Die on May 30, 2009, 08:25:59 AM
I like the small posters that come with it. Are these exclusive to the Volume or are these works that can be found in the ART BOOKS?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on May 30, 2009, 08:32:48 AM
I also grabbed volume 29 today. Still only $13.95. Wasn't it reported to be going up in price?

From what was said earlier in the thread, it'll start with volume 31.

I like the small posters that come with it. Are these exclusive to the Volume or are these works that can be found in the ART BOOKS?

There hasn't been an artbook in years, so unless you buy YA you won't find those anywhere else.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Funkmasta Zeph on May 31, 2009, 05:53:49 PM
I think it's pretty obvious they'll raise the price because they'll start being stalled by catching up to Miura not long after.

I just wish it didn't have to be 31, that's like the worst volume in the series.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on May 31, 2009, 06:11:26 PM
I just wish it didn't have to be 31, that's like the worst volume in the series.

No way, 31 has some pretty amazing moments. The Blaze Rod, Daiba, the Kundalini, and then Ganishka's talk with Guts, followed by his fight against apostles. What's not to like in it?
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Funkmasta Zeph on May 31, 2009, 06:48:09 PM
Worst of series doesn't mean bad, just comparitively.

It has less substance for my buck then most of the rest. I'm not so fond of nearly pure battle volumes (see also 25).
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on May 31, 2009, 08:14:39 PM
31 the worst of the series? Well, I suppose everyone's entitled to their [shitty] opinions.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Jaze1618 on May 31, 2009, 09:25:18 PM
Call me picky but I prefer
----
SK.net
Guts - Hey

Guts - It's not a sin to at least tell us why

page 04

Serpico - I have nothing more to say

Guts - It would've been nice to have fought against you one more time

Serpico - There is no reason for that anymore
---

Over

---

DH


Guts - Hey

Guts - There's no harm in at least telling us the reason is there?

page 04

Serpico - There is nothing for me to say on this matter.

Guts - I wanted to try havin' a fight with you again

Serpico - That...  
              ...motivation no longer exists
---

Maybe a subtle difference but that scene was the only thing that stuck out for me in the DH volume 29. So overall a job well done by Darkhorse. Thanks Darkhorse!!


PS. in the last episode of DH's volume 29, Serpico says that the space between the columns is 'narrower than usual', vs each column being thicker than usual.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on May 31, 2009, 09:59:32 PM
Call me pick but I prefer

DH's translation seems fine to me. I'm not a big fan of the way they translated Guts' last line in the part you quoted but it's all good anyway.

PS. in the last episode of DH's volume 29, Serpico says that the space between the columns is 'narrower than usual', vs each column being thicker than usual.

DH is correct. Saiki made a mistake back then.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Joaquin8911 on May 31, 2009, 10:42:32 PM
Well, I'm not so lucky, I had to pay around $17 for most volumes and around $9-$11 for a few others, and I still can't find volume 9, they told me it MAY be shipped from the USA in about 1 month along with volume 29 but until then my collection is still incomplete.

I'm OK with the translations, the whole idea of the events and the story is kept and that's all that matters after all.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: CowTip on May 31, 2009, 11:10:53 PM
The wife just got caught up to the Dark Horse releases that we own (up to volume 27), so I was going to order the next two just to find out that volume 29 has a 1-3 month shipping date on Amazon?! Oy! Apparently looking back in the thread, this seems to be a common occurrence. The only place around here that I can find that even sells Berserk is the FYE in the Mall of America... Curse you Amazon for forcing me to have to fight my way through that nightmare of a place!
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on June 01, 2009, 01:13:56 AM
When Amazon is being stupid, I usually just go to Borders and get it in person.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Joaquin8911 on June 01, 2009, 01:20:08 AM
Is Amazon's international shipping good? I was thinking it would be best to buy volume 9 and Vagabond's volume 1 and 2 from them rather than wait a month until they are shipped to my local comic store.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Rhombaad on June 01, 2009, 04:17:57 AM
The wife just got caught up to the Dark Horse releases that we own (up to volume 27), so I was going to order the next two just to find out that volume 29 has a 1-3 month shipping date on Amazon?! Oy! Apparently looking back in the thread, this seems to be a common occurrence. The only place around here that I can find that even sells Berserk is the FYE in the Mall of America... Curse you Amazon for forcing me to have to fight my way through that nightmare of a place!

You can always purchase it from Dark Horse's online store, Things From Another World. That's what I do and it usually ships within a few days of the release date.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Aazealh on June 01, 2009, 07:58:00 AM
I've looked on a few other online shops out of curiosity and they all marked volume 29 as out of stock. So following Rhombaad's advice, you might want to try this: http://www.tfaw.com/Profile/Berserk-Volume-29-TPB___338759 (http://www.tfaw.com/Profile/Berserk-Volume-29-TPB___338759)

Is Amazon's international shipping good? I was thinking it would be best to buy volume 9 and Vagabond's volume 1 and 2 from them rather than wait a month until they are shipped to my local comic store.

Depends on where you live. To Mexico the shipping fees are probably not that bad.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Cronus on June 01, 2009, 03:53:53 PM
Volume 29 just shipped for me today from Amazon, woot!  :guts:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Walter on June 01, 2009, 03:56:20 PM
Volume 29 just shipped for me today from Amazon, woot!  :guts:
You bastard, you probably bought the last copy!

But at least I have FF4: The After Years at home  :ganishka:
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: OmegaSeamaster on June 01, 2009, 08:38:26 PM
How are the Dark Horse "nick and dent" volumes from TFAW.com? I've only bought mint copies thus far, but I'm wondering if the condition is decent to get a few volumes at a reduced price.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Cronus on June 01, 2009, 10:21:43 PM
How are the Dark Horse "nick and dent" volumes from TFAW.com? I've only bought mint copies thus far, but I'm wondering if the condition is decent to get a few volumes at a reduced price.

I got a few copies from there, and they were perfectly fine.  I figure it's manga, not exactly a limited edition hardback or anything.

But at least I have FF4: The After Years at home  :ganishka:

You are so dead to me.
Title: Re: Dark Horse Releases
Post by: Death May Die on June 04, 2009, 10:44:41 PM
Week 1 (4/29/09)
Volume 18