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Berserk => Speculation Nation => Topic started by: Aazealh on November 12, 2008, 12:39:18 PM

Title: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Aazealh on November 12, 2008, 12:39:18 PM
With the war about to end and Wyndham in ruins, it will soon be time to build a new capital for Griffith's kingdom. A capital that will be named Falconia.

The question is simple: what do you think Falconia will be like? A glorious city lined with statues of Griffith? A sprawling agglomeration riddled with filth? Something in-between?

You tell me. :griff:
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Walter on November 12, 2008, 02:25:43 PM
Ever since we saw Ganishka's towering form on the horizon, I've been thinking his corpse would make a great tower of demon flesh.

Either way, I see Griff building the city where the ruins of Wyndham are now. It is afterall at the middle of the continent.
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Aazealh on November 12, 2008, 02:57:19 PM
Ever since we saw Ganishka's towering form on the horizon, I've been thinking his corpse would make a great tower of demon flesh.

Honestly he's so big that even a single one of his legs would probably be the highest building in the world. There's enough material in him to form a mountain range. I can already see it: "Mount Ganishka". :ganishka:

Seriously though, it will be interesting to see what happens to him after his inevitable defeat. If he were to be petrified, maybe they could use his corpse to build the new city? :void:

Either way, I see Griff building the city where the ruins of Wyndham are now. It is afterall at the middle of the continent.

Yes, that seems logical to me as well. Besides, that location is symbolic: before Wyndham, another city stood there, the one Gaiseric had built. Its remains still lie under the ground, left untouched for a thousand years. Who knows, maybe Griffith will have a use for them?

Another question: how do you think the new city will be built? By whom? Apostles? The former citizens of Wyndham? Will the whole country be put to the task in a way or another (contributing to the rebuilding effort by providing food, money, workers, etc.)? Will Griffith become a Great Builder as well as a Great Conqueror?
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: jackson_hurley on November 12, 2008, 03:21:40 PM

Another question: how do you think the new city will be built? By whom? Apostles? The former citizens of Wyndham? Will the whole country be put to the task in a way or another (contributing to the rebuilding effort by providing food, money, workers, etc.)? Will Griffith become a Great Builder as well as a Great Conqueror?

My guess is that the apostles will help a lot (if the citizen aren't to afraid of them hehe) just to continue to show that even with monsters in his army Griffith is really a great Savior. And once the city is complete, bang the darkness begins! or something like that...
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Ramen4ever on November 12, 2008, 03:31:41 PM
Yes, that seems logical to me as well. Besides, that location is symbolic: before Wyndham, another city stood there, the one Gaiseric had built. Its remains still lie under the ground, left untouched for a thousand years. Who knows, maybe Griffith will have a use for them?

Another question: how do you think the new city will be built? By whom? Apostles? The former citizens of Wyndham? Will the whole country be put to the task in a way or another (contributing to the rebuilding effort by providing food, money, workers, etc.)? Will Griffith become a Great Builder as well as a Great Conqueror?

From what we've seen so far, I would assume that the people would not be afraid. Everyone able would help to rebuild the city, some providing food, some entertainment, some materials, some tools, some labor, etc. I gather this from Mule's first experience in the Band of the Hawk encampment. The people were all together, there were even families and there were no complaints about anything really. I'm not entirely sure that the age of darkness will begin yet. Besides, the Idea of Evil told Griffith, "Your actions themselves shall prove to be suitable for your kind as a whole. May those actions bring pain or salvation to the men"
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Aazealh on November 12, 2008, 08:03:41 PM
I'm not entirely sure that the age of darkness will begin yet. Besides, the Idea of Evil told Griffith, "Your actions themselves shall prove to be suitable for your kind as a whole. May those actions bring pain or salvation to the men"

Hehe, then are you supposing there just won't be an "Age of Darkness" in the sense people understand it (i.e. something akin to the Demon City under Ganishka's rule)? :carcus:

And what do you guys think the city itself will look like, once finished (assuming it will be finished)? What architectural style? Clean streets? Dangerous parts of town? Creatures roaming in the sewers? A city guard made of apostles? Use your imagination. :guts:
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: SaiyajinNoOuji on November 12, 2008, 08:09:17 PM
I foresee it just as Griffiths current character is. Beautiful on the outside, horrible oh-the-demons-are-eating-my-flesh on the inside.  :carcus:
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: SimplyEd on November 12, 2008, 08:13:07 PM
I'd say the new capital will be a true sight to behold. Griff seems to be quite fond of his role as the genuine saviour of "his people" and therefore i'd think that his rule will actually be that of a shining, benevolent and infallible leader. And i'd think that he will have an interest in expressing his quasi-deific rule by having lots of pompous statues, ornaments and buildings being erected all across the new city. And not just Falconia, but also across the entire continent and ultimately across the whole world.

His rule will be absolute, but i have a feeling that he will grant the people under his protection quite a lot of personal freedoms, so they can basically act on their own whims but are still restrained by the fear of arousing negative attention from Griff and his generals. In the end, however, each and every single person that will associate with Griff and his minions will be corrupted to some degree and the worst part would be that it happened willingly.
A continuous rule of evil (in disguise) and a prosperous populace that will eventually succumb to their own corruption and end up in the vortex.

It's a simple, yet effective scenario. Keep the people satisfied but still in check with a couple of ironclad rules. Add to that a glorious living environment that's symbolic of the leaders "larger-than-life" achievements. It's really not all that different from earths old empires, with the sole exception that the emperor, in this case, can actually rule for all eternity with absolute power (supernatural as well in the sense of his reign).


As for the city itself. For some reason, when i think about how it will look like, i'm always getting that certain image of gigantic, temple-like buildings, supported by heavy pillars/columns of various historic orders (Doric, Ionic and the like), very much according to the ancient greek or roman architecture. I can picture building materials that focus on limestone, marble and terracotta. Not just for official buildings but also for private homes to some degree. Lots of ornaments everywhere, specked with gold finishes and other valuable materials like ivory and others.
In a way, it could very well be described as utopian, at least to the degree that people will lead a quasi happy, but ultimately indifferent-to-reality sort of life. There will be various opportunities for an excessive life, which will in turn have a negative impact on the peoples karma.
I don't think that apostles will be allowed to go on a rampage inside the city (or even show their true nature) but they will be given opportunities to do as they wish outside the reaches of major cities, or during special "events" that could serve as propaganda for Griffs reign. Inside the cities, however, i'd think that apostle guards and officers will have to keep their urges in check and play along the rules set by Griffith.


Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: jackson_hurley on November 13, 2008, 12:39:15 AM
I have a feeling that we won't see the construction of Falconia but instead have a mini "few years later" where the scenario of SimplyEd will already be apply. Then Guts crew when they'd be back would be like : Wtf?! and could just as well experience something similar to the beginning of the series were small cities are being rule by ruthless apostles but not in Falconia where it'd be majestuous. Except in some part the city could be dangerous at night (monsters roaming at some level). Maybe they're will be a curfew and if people don't respect it they could be eaten or something. The architecture would be really beautiful inside the "rich area" whereas in the lower parts of the city it would be like a ghost town (more filled with fear than deserted)...
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Smith on November 13, 2008, 01:22:36 AM
Seriously though, it will be interesting to see what happens to him after his inevitable defeat. If he were to be petrified, maybe they could use his corpse to build the new city? :void:


If Ganishka is being petrified (I don't see how is that going to happen but nevertheless), he will left there as it is, a towering statue, probably known in future as the "Statue of Liberty"

The "liberty" doesn't imply to the citizen of Wyndham though, but to the demons that will be unleash soon in the age of darkness... :ganishka:
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Walter on November 13, 2008, 05:02:58 PM
It's still very unclear to me the kind of kingdom Griffith will create, and until I know a little more about the nature of his kingdom, it's difficult for me to predict what kind of streets he'll have. But, since we're just wading through the wildlands of speculation nation, I have a few thoughts.

I see white streets, white walls, white buildings, white columns and especially, white castles, in a gothic fashion -- the perfect realization of that castle in Griffith's dreams. But besieged on all sides by hell on earth. So yeah, I took a cue from jackson_hurley's idea and one Aaz had postulated a while back.

(http://skullknight.net/images/Castle.jpg)

Here's what the God Hand have to say about the coming age of darkness:
Quote from:  Volume 13 (translation by Ranemaka13)
Evil shall overcome the sacred,
illusion shall overcome reality,
fear shall overcome hope,
hate shall overcome love,
the dead shall overcome the living.
All the darkness shall cover the light,
as if the moon shadows the sunlight.
Since Griffith's reincarnation, the worlds have begun to bleed together, blending myth into reality. Locus in ep 291 that politics will have no role in the coming world. And a few episodes later, Sonia said the principles of the world are ending.

I see Falconia as humanity's final safe haven from the hell outside its walls. Inside, it is immaculate perfection, the pinnacle of civilization, to all those granted the Falcon's favor, who rules over the empire, and unbeknownst to his admirers, is the one who brought this hell to earth. I think humanity will place their faith in Griffith because his is the only path that doesn't lead to an inhuman death. They won't know his true nature until the empire falls.

Anyway, that's just an exaggerated version of what I see in my head when I think of the distant future. Obviously, it can't be contained to one castle as depicted here. The people will need food and so must harvest somehow in the hellish wasteland. But hey, that's their problem to solve, not mine!  :ganishka:
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Smith on November 13, 2008, 05:29:17 PM
Walter's idea reminded me of the city in Aeonflux where human live and re-live again with the walls of the city, with no one ever venture out beyond the wall... (Or they did, but probably never return)...

That could be what Falconia is going to become... nothing but hellish landscape beyond the walls... we have to wait and see though...
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Sanguinius on November 13, 2008, 05:32:45 PM
With the war about to end and Wyndham in ruins, it will soon be time to build a new capital for Griffith's kingdom. A capital that will be named Falconia.

The question is simple: what do you think Falconia will be like? A glorious city lined with statues of Griffith? A sprawling agglomeration riddled with filth? Something in-between?

You tell me. :griff:

Personally I'm thinking that when  :ganishka: bites the dust some kind of massive rift will be torn and the different realms will merge either partially or fully together.  So Falconia will be the nexus point of this where the merging is greatest.  Beyond that I think it's hard to say, for I've no idea how such a thing will be represented.
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Proj2501 on November 13, 2008, 05:43:07 PM
Didnt have time to readthe whole thread, class starts in 5. So, Falconia. I don't see it as a filth ridden demonic city. Instead, I think Griffith will rebuild, rule (maybe even fairly). The fact that Guts and Casca's child is a part of him inclines me to think he's not going to turn out to be Oh So Evil. Yeah, he's a fuck, but I don't see Midland becoming a wasteland. Why take in Mule, court the Pontiff and the nobles?

If anything, he'll rebuild, people will love and maye fear him at the sme time. It'll set an interesting stage for Guts to be the villian when he does come after Griffith eventually.

 :schierke:"You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villian!!!!!" :SK:
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Walter on November 13, 2008, 05:47:46 PM
The fact that Guts and Casca's child is a part of him inclines me to think he's not going to turn out to be Oh So Evil.
But Griffith already IS oh-so-evil. It's really a question of how overt his evil will be expressed within the city and on its subjects. And the child only intervenes rarely, and so far only when dealing with its parents, not for the good of the people or anything.
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Smith on November 13, 2008, 05:48:51 PM


If anything, he'll rebuild, people will love and maye fear him at the sme time. It'll set an interesting stage for Guts to be the villian when he does come after Griffith eventually.


It will be an interesting stage as well for Guts to leave Elfhelm to confront Griffith, because for now I dont see a reason for him to leave Casca unless something happen which force Guts to the edge, once again...
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Xem on November 16, 2008, 09:52:50 PM
For some reason I imagine the world being somewhat peaceful at first, and Griffith will be a great leader for the people. I think Falconia will be a beautiful city, much like most everyone has described. I'd be interested to see how Guts would react if he found out Griffith is turning out to be exactly what the world needed, though it's not entirely likely.
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Ramen4ever on November 16, 2008, 10:21:19 PM
For some reason I imagine the world being somewhat peaceful at first, and Griffith will be a great leader for the people. I think Falconia will be a beautiful city, much like most everyone has described. I'd be interested to see how Guts would react if he found out Griffith is turning out to be exactly what the world needed, though it's not entirely likely.

I don't think Guts would care all that much about what Griffith does with his kingdom. He's always been more focused on who Griffith sacrificed and who he betrayed in order to get there.  :chomp: And more recently he's too preoccupied with Casca.
Though Guts and Griffith's fight would be quite incredible if Griffith keeps up his savior persona. It would really confuse things from the perspective of who's good or bad. What would be more important, an individual's revenge or the savior of the masses?
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: eldritchdose on November 17, 2008, 01:31:45 AM
I don't think Guts would care all that much about what Griffith does with his kingdom. He's always been more focused on who Griffith sacrificed and who he betrayed in order to get there.  :chomp: And more recently he's too preoccupied with Casca.
Though Guts and Griffith's fight would be quite incredible if Griffith keeps up his savior persona. It would really confuse things from the perspective of who's good or bad. What would be more important, an individual's revenge or the savior of the masses?


Easily one individuals revenge. It has been a constant theme in Berserk that great individuals follow their own paths no matter what and create huge changes in other peoples lives as well as influence the course of history. Guts will pursue his revenge, even if that means destroying the saviour of all mankind. Besides, we already know that there will be an age of darkness and that Griffith will make that happen.
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Guts' intestines on November 19, 2008, 08:05:00 PM
I can see the city as being paradoxical just as its leader as others have said before me, it will no doubt be a grand city but that grandeur will be a front for its demonicness.  I wouldn't be surprised if Griffith gets the citizens to love him even more then requires them to pay a tribute to him, I don't know why I have this image of him but I do, I also can imagine the apostles being the ones that enforce his edicts and laws.  I also think that when the confrontation between Guts and Griffith comes that Guts wouldn't have the citizens of Falconia on his side due to Griffith's (assumedly) magical charisma.  Griffith has already shown the potential to be one of those leaders who goes around kissing babies and performing miracles so I wonder if that'll be the case when he's leading Falconia?
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: einherjar on November 22, 2008, 03:23:15 AM
Griffith was told

Quote
May your actions bring pain or salvation. . .

What this means to me is that it may be possible for Griffith to use his evil to bring "good" to mankind, at least in the short-term.  However, knowing that the Idea of Evil is the architect of causality, the salvation Griffith appears to bring is likely a facade.

I rather like Walter's vision of Falconia:

I see white streets, white walls, white buildings, white columns and especially, white castles, in a gothic fashion -- the perfect realization of that castle in Griffith's dreams.
. . .
I see Falconia as humanity's final safe haven from the hell outside its walls. Inside, it is immaculate perfection, the pinnacle of civilization, to all those granted the Falcon's favor, who rules over the empire, and unbeknownst to his admirers, is the one who brought this hell to earth. I think humanity will place their faith in Griffith because his is the only path that doesn't lead to an inhuman death.

Though Guts and Griffith's fight would be quite incredible if Griffith keeps up his savior persona. It would really confuse things from the perspective of who's good or bad. What would be more important, an individual's revenge or the savior of the masses?

It's along the same lines of Guts confrontation with Mozgus.  Granted, Guts knows that burning Casca at the stake won't save the people gathered at Albion, but even if it would, he would choose to save her and damn everyone else.  And that's what makes him cool, right?  :guts:

Easily one individuals revenge. It has been a constant theme in Berserk that great individuals follow their own paths no matter what and create huge changes in other peoples lives as well as influence the course of history. Guts will pursue his revenge, even if that means destroying the saviour of all mankind.

I agree completely.  A "savior" Griffith makes Guts' quest for revenge that much more personal.  If Griffith is seen by all as a bringer of darkness, the plot of the series (to me) degenerates significantly, to the point of being "Humans vs. Evil."  On the other hand, if Griffith's image is still untarnished, Guts is still "the Struggler."  He alone (Ok, with the help of his companions) attempts to defy the gods, angels, and devils of the world.

Anyway, I'd feel pretty hosed if Guts had it easy.
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Shadax on November 24, 2008, 07:23:49 AM
Wel,..Griffit's kingdom could be almost anything. It doesn't have to mean a city or a certain physical place persť. It could also mean a world where the real world and the idea world have merged like what is already somewhat happening.

(slightly off track) I may be crazy, but I somewhat see paralels between Ganishka and the tower of Babel, connecting the earthly world with the heavenly world, the way he created himself in arrogance and defiance. Dun dun duuun... :ganishka:

Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Walter on November 30, 2008, 11:56:23 PM
My view of Falconia changed a little bit after ep 300. Seeing the humans accepting that their allies are demons so easily, and begin fighting alongside them... that changes the whole formula for the future, to me.

I honestly can't say what direction it's headed in now. But two of the more obvious possibilities that occurred to me are: this could be a kingdom where human and demon actually work together to build a better future, until it comes tumbling down; or it will be humans snared in a giant trap, where they should have trusted their initial reactions.
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Vampire_Hunter_Bob on December 01, 2008, 12:46:16 AM
I honestly can't say what direction it's headed in now.

 It's really hard to accurately predict what direction Miura is taking Griffith's part of the story after the rebuilding. Two thing I've been thinking about is a Jihad that gets carried out by Griffith's human and apostle followers trying to bring the world under Griffith's order or a perfect kingdom while Griffith has apostle death squads killing all opposition and hunting down Guts and Casca.

 Of course I'm just guessing and am no way backing it up with facts.
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Walter on December 01, 2008, 01:06:49 AM
I know you were just brainstorming Bob, but I have to nitpick.  :badbone:

I really don't think Griffith will have any interest in Guts or Casca until/if/when they directly oppose him in some way. Either way, that likely won't affect the development of Falconia as an empire, unless it's something so overt as the way the King of Midland wasted his resources on hunting Griffith. And... I just don't see that.
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Vampire_Hunter_Bob on December 01, 2008, 01:09:29 AM
I know you were just brainstorming Bob, but I have to nitpick.  :badbone:

As I said, it's not backed up with any real facts to point in that direction, but I'm glad to see you didn't disagree with my first and better point.  :carcus:
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: SaiyajinNoOuji on December 01, 2008, 01:12:59 AM
I still stand by my thinking of that, Sonja is just the person to put the humans into a docile state and once Ganishka is over with, it will be like a bunch of Turkeys at a slaughter mill! Who says your kingdom has to have humans as its citizens?
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Walter on December 01, 2008, 01:24:34 AM
Who says your kingdom has to have humans as its citizens?
Humans will have a role in Falconia. Who else is going to sweep up the demon feces in the streets?
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: SaiyajinNoOuji on December 01, 2008, 01:35:33 AM
Humans will have a role in Falconia. Who else is going to sweep up the demon feces in the streets?
Schnoz and his kin. Humans will be the cattle. Need to feed them growing demons a balanced diet of human entrails and blood!

EDIT: Spelz gud.
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: jackson_hurley on December 01, 2008, 02:09:42 AM
Schnoz and his kin

Poor thing! Shnoze deserves a better futur than that!

Humans will be the cattle.

Ah good old human breeding farms! Nothing better to feed those hungry hungry apostles!
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Death May Die on December 01, 2008, 03:24:36 AM
Well, I don't know, if we know, exactly what Griffith wants, other than his own Kingdom. I mean, by nature, the God Hand are ruthless, which in that case the kingdom will be roled probably by terror.

But Griffith may want to be a Noble king. That his people adore. Why would he led the people like sheep. I mean whats he luring them in for? I mean once he's king, aside from the way he roles that kingdom, what does he need the people for? Power? What is he gaining? Other than the fact of a kingdom.

Maybe he wants to take Falconia and start wars with other nations, eventually throwing the whole world in a war of hatred and such. Fueling the God hand and the idea of evil. But weird he would take this really long about way, of becoming king, to get his own kingdom to send it to war. To battle other nations. Maybe even other apostle. When he could just as easly send the world into parrel with his God hand powers and aploste army. Maybe the "Realm Layers" don't allow him to do such freely. IDK.
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Madam President on December 01, 2008, 03:31:24 AM
I honestly believe Falconia won't be a cesspit of demons and human sacrifice, or be a redux of the starving and ailing citizens of the Mozgus Inquisition arc (YET, anyway).  I'm thinking the pre-existing Medieval European styled architecture will remain, but the buildings and outlying cities will be a pristine white.  Throw in some colossal Griffith statues here and there for good measure.  Maybe even some Greek-style columns, as a previous poster suggested.  Free beer on Sundays, and never again would a subject of Falconia suffer from bad hair days, or split ends! :carcus:

What I'm on the fence about is how the future will unfold.  From the very moment we were introduced to Raban, that character has been constantly giving off these "I'm-the-only-level-headed-character-in-this-story-that-will-somehow-play-a-large-role-in-uncovering-something-or-aiding-the-protagonist(s)" vibes.  Having the humans and Apostles co-exist under an illusion of paradise that will soon turn into a hellish "HAI GUISE!11 KILLING SPREE!!11" landscape seems too predictable to me.  But then again, this is Miura we're talking about.   The guy knows how to deliver.  To this day, my mind has never been more mind fucked than from watching the last two episodes of the Berserk anime.  EVERYTHING PALES IN COMPARISON.  :void:  I have this nagging idea about Charlotte too, but I'll wait and see what happens before throwing any more odd speculation out thar.

Of course, there's also the scenario where Griffith makes the lion lay down with the lamb, heals Minister Foss's baldness with luscious, chestnut colored hair, AND brings home your daughter (still pure!) before 9:30 PM.  Basically, all is well unless a certain beefcake :guts: decides he still wants to ask Griffith for a cup of sugar, which some how inexplicably cause the two worlds to bleed onto one another, etc. when he could have prevented casting the world into darkness by avoiding confrontation with Griffith (basing this on nothing, but let's just say, hypothetically, Guts receives some painfully vague info from Skull Knight or King Hanafubububbubkbubkbubkubkuububku).
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Walter on December 01, 2008, 03:39:20 AM
Maybe he wants to take Falconia and start wars with other nations, eventually throwing the whole world in a war of hatred and such. Fueling the God hand and the idea of evil. But weird he would take this really long about way, of becoming king, to get his own kingdom to send it to war. To battle other nations. Maybe even other apostle. When he could just as easly send the world into parrel with his God hand powers and aploste army. Maybe the "Realm Layers" don't allow him to do such freely. IDK.
He'd have to be declaring war on his own empire then. Griff's empire (likely to have its capital named Falconia) already has the allegiance of all the countries under the Holy See Alliance. The force that's now assaulting Wyndham is composed of representatives from all those armies. Here's who's in the alliance, and thus, now working with The Falcons:

(http://skullknight.net/encyclopedia/glossary/images/holyseealliance.jpg)

In case you missed it. I'll recap a bit for you. Power in the continent was split between all these countries and city-states since 1,000 years ago, and even moreso after Midland fell from grace after the Kushan invasion. But then they formed this alliance in the name of the Holy See, the leader of which has now passed his blessing onto Griffith. And all the countries fell in line with devoting representatives of their armies to his service.

A possible counterpoint should be noted here. There is a small chance of rebellion in the outlying countries among those who didn't devote the bulk of their military to the Wyndham assault forces. However, as Locus said, politics will have no meaning in the coming world. :griff:

So, that's the thing. What's setup for the future is peace: all wars on the continent resolved, and all countries working together, like a bow tied around Griffith's finger.
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: jackson_hurley on December 01, 2008, 04:04:57 AM
So, that's the thing. What's setup for the future is peace: all wars on the continent resolved, and all countries working together, like a bow tied around Griffith's finger.

And then the carnage begins? (feeding time perhaps?) joking aside I still stick with what I said previously... But again we'll have to wait.

by the way thanks again Walter for the graphic with the countries involved, it's been a while so I kinda forgot how many there was involved.

Do you guys think there is a lot of other countries apart from these one and the kushan empire?
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Walter on April 20, 2009, 06:50:58 PM
(I considered posting this as a new thread, but it really does relate to the empire/city itself.)

Humans and apostles working together was a little unprecedented for me, though it should come as no large surprise, given the prophecy that the Falcon of Darkness/Light shall lead the Blind White Sheep and the Sinful Black Sheep into the Age of Darkness. But just how that will play out got me thinking.

Griffith has led the apostle army as civilly as possible -- he allows no devouring of the humans in their own army. Recall the scene in vol 23 where the apostle hints at wanting to devour Sonya and Mule, but is stopped by Grunbeld. He says they've not tasted human flesh for a long time.

So, here's the sum of it. What do you get when you toss humans, who are willing to accept the monstrous nature of apostles, in with apostles who are ordered not to "do as they will" and devour them, as is their nature? I'd say you get a bit of a dillema later down the line.

This plan of Griffith's may work in the short-term, providing a buffer between the immediate threat of the apostles eating his subjects, but in the end, I wonder if Griffith, even with his innate influence, will be able to hold that tenuous line. Surely at least a few will tear that veil aside and do as they please. And what would happen to the humans' allegiance to these monsters then?

Ultimately, I foresee the apostles splitting into factions, possibly between those loyal to Griffith's will and those who would rather have the opportunity to give in to their nature.
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Johnstantine on April 20, 2009, 07:09:20 PM
It's really hard to say.  Given that the story is 60-70% done, finding the space to have a schism between apostles would be sort of difficult given the broader distance we have right now between Guts and Griffith.  If anything, there will be a time jump so the story of Guts and company at sea doesn't stagnate.

As for what Falconia would look like, I imagine it would be sort of a new "Golden Age" of man and monster uniting under one banner.  The city would be white and pure like the hawk of the light is intended to be.  Or it could be gold, maybe.
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Walter on April 20, 2009, 07:13:53 PM
But ... how does your view of Falconia, listed above, account for the Age of Darkness that's prophesied to emerge from this new reign by Griffith?

And I think there's plenty of room for a "schism" between Griffith and the apostles. The conflict is already there, just beneath the surface if you reason it out. Read my post, in case you missed it, and since you don't seem to actually be responding to it :schierke:
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Dani on April 20, 2009, 11:26:49 PM
I am going to throw in my two cents. It may just be a pipe dream, I don't think we ever fully second guess what the out come will be. Fun to speculate.

Right, Walter, you bring up a few good points so I think I will try to respond to you as it's a good basis for me to start.

Griffith has led the apostle army as civilly as possible -- he allows no devouring of the humans in their own army. Recall the scene in vol 23 where the apostle hints at wanting to devour Sonya and Mule, but is stopped by Grunbeld. He says they've not tasted human flesh for a long time.

So, here's the sum of it. What do you get when you toss humans, who are willing to accept the monstrous nature of apostles, in with apostles who are ordered not to "do as they will" and devour them, as is their nature? I'd say you get a bit of a dillema later down the line.

You do bring up a good point. Yes, there does seem to be a very strong underlying friction between the human and Apostles, for the very reasons you mentioned. May I suggest an alternative outcome? I think Griffith is holding back the demons/Apostles from touching the humans right now because he wants the humans to trust them. Having a few Apostles munch on a few humans would severely undermine the entire development of both working together. I think Griffith is purposely trying to have the humans accept the Apostles because they won't be going away any time soon. A world needs humans, so they can't be wiped out and Griffith needs his Apostles, so having them working together benefits Griffith's plans. The "dilemma" you mentioned, I think will be resolved, just not how you make out.


This plan of Griffith's may work in the short-term, providing a buffer between the immediate threat of the apostles eating his subjects, but in the end, I wonder if Griffith, even with his innate influence, will be able to hold that tenuous line. Surely at least a few will tear that veil aside and do as they please. And what would happen to the humans' allegiance to these monsters then?

Ultimately, I foresee the apostles splitting into factions, possibly between those loyal to Griffith's will and those who would rather have the opportunity to give in to their nature.

I think there will be a different outcome to this situation. Griffith will have shown, by defeating Ganishka, that no Apostle can stand in his way. Ganishka, right now, is more powerful than any Apostle, yet I am pretty sure Griffith will defeat him. This should send a powerful message to any Apostles remaining that think they can defy Griffith's will. I think that this is an important development, in one hand Griffith will demonstrate he is the savior of mankind and on the other hand, he will show that no Apostle can hope to rebel and win against him. This should work to keep any future Apostle in line and stop the development of any future rebellious factions, as you suggest.

I think Griffith is indeed keeping the Apostles' nature at bay at present, but that is not to say he will keep that demonic nature at bay forever.

I think Falconia, Griffith's kingdom, will be a glorious kingdom where Apostles and human co exist. On the surface, as others have speculated, everything will seem peaceful, glorious, like no time that ever come before. In trying to keep in line with what we know, there will be no politics, little crime but all of it will be an illusion. The glorious reign will be only glorious on the surface, humans will be sacrificed to appease the demons/Apostles, this will keep them in line on the surface. Politics will not exist because Griffith's will is absolute,  no Apostle would dare step out of line, especially if they are rewarded with a few humans to munch on, just not publicly, not immediately obvious. Humans, who do have a tendency to not always conform, will be swayed by the peace and prosperity Griffith has brought. They will be blinded in awe and wonder, those who aren't swayed will be taken care off, disposed and fed to the Apostles, this would ensure that politics would be killed off as there would be no human that would question Griffith.

I imagine there would be an undercurrent of human suffering and misery but nobody would notice or care because it was not obvious, not going on on the surface. Nobody would miss the beggars on the street, the sick and the lame, the orphaned children, woman of the night, the convicted, the rebels, the troublemakers.

Falconia will be a great sprawling city, the building and development of which will ascend Griffith to even higher places in people's hearts. The great ender of war, the great builder, as some have mentioned.

Just my thoughts. =)
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: vanheat on April 20, 2009, 11:59:29 PM
But wouldn't Griffith be well aware of that, that the apostles will not hold out forever. Would the apostles be willing to eat trolls. Maybe Griffith can then shift the Apostles' attention from Ganishka to what happens next. So if the logic of this world is ending could that mean multiple layers are going to merge. Which means more Qliphoth's and trolls and such. Definitely be dark.

Plus how many apostles would there even be after this conflict. I'm sure Griffith and his lieutenants could quickly put down and take out those who don't obey. The only way for their to be a split would be if Zodd or Grunbeld etc. were to lead the other party or if a lot of apostles decide to kill humans at the same time.

If there are apostle groups that split and cause problems wouldn't Griffith and his loyal apostles and humans fight those dissenters. For I would assume Griffith wants to keep humans around seeing as how he has gone to such lengths for Charlotte and the Pope and his people. Unless he just wants them for livestock and such.

I like Dani's thoughts but that sounds a lot like the first couple of volumes.
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Dani on April 21, 2009, 02:00:16 AM
I like Dani's thoughts but that sounds a lot like the first couple of volumes.

It does? Maybe I didn't do a good enough job of explaining myself.

The Falconia in my head is different from the scenes shown in the first couple of volumes. The first couple of volumes show desolation, bleak existence and it's clear politics is still present. We also see human appeasing an Apostle. In my head, I see Falconia, on the surface, being the complete opposite, full of hope, merriment, jubilance. Griffith being the major governing influence of people lives and the people themselves more than happy at this because of the perceived benefits.

Monsters, once the beings of fear and nightmares are now guardians of peace and prosperity. No longer are they confined to nightmares and shadows but are present on the streets, in the grand light, in this beautiful sprawling city. Through Griffith's leadership, the "monsters" fought to end the bleak times (the misery and suffering seen throughout after the eclipse when Apostles were rampant by themselves) alongside the humans. They are no longer feared, but respected, accepted and are seen as one of the many accomplishments of Griffith's reign. Of course, this is on the surface, the real, ongoing suffering and misery would be widespread, continuous and forever ongoing, but just a layer out of sight, just behind people's perceptions. Everyone would be happy but blissfully unaware of the darkness that has fully enveloped ever facet of society. Griffith would be praised by everyone, whether they by human, demon, monster or Apostle. The great Age of Darkness would be known to everyone under the great illusion of the Age of Light, the Light of the Falcon.

Funny, I can imagine Guts and company, returning from Elfhelm, maybe many years afterward to find all of this. Guts and company, not blinded by the Light of the Falcon, seeing society and Falconia for what it really is, the great suffering to be set upon mankind. They would not be welcome, they would not be believed, they would find no allies. Griffith would seem untouchable, nobody would believe that he has instigated the greatest crime against the world because they would be blind to it all.

As you can now hopefully see, my idea of Falconia is very different to the first few volumes, but they do share some similar qualities.
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Walter on April 21, 2009, 04:04:21 AM
Forgive the oncoming wall of quotes, but I see no other way to respond, since you little devils typed so much in a matter of hours, I can't paraphrase the material without it being chaotic (I even did two drafts of this in an effort to shorten it, but ended up lengthening it ...).

To start out, I'm really surprised there's been such outcry to my little theory. I don't think it's that outlandish, really. Simply put, Griffith is playing with fire by allying human-eating monsters with humans. It can't last forever. Do people really think it will? Anyway there's already a clear rift between  the ... *ahem* ... "virtuous" apostles, who possess many qualities humans would admire, and those of the more rape-and-pillage variety. And soon, these baser creatures won't have a war to satiate their lusty appetite. What then? Have them share bunk beds with humans? An alliance built on the brotherhood built during a time of war? Seems quite tenuous. Moving on...

Quote
Griffith will have shown, by defeating Ganishka, that no Apostle can stand in his way. ... This should work to keep any future Apostle in line and stop the development of any future rebellious factions, as you suggest.
That's true, but Ganishka has always been the only apostle shown to have any possibility of rebelling. There may very well be others, but we don't know of them, and nothing implies they exist within the CURRENT scenario. Later on, the circumstances will be different. Apostles have a war to focus on. But when their function has been used, why should they obey the rules? And truly, Griffith will have little reason to maintain the veil of friendship between the two beings. I don't even know if he'd have any incentive to strike down a rebellion should it occur AFTER he's gotten his kingdom.

Quote
In trying to keep in line with what we know, there will be no politics,  ... Politics will not exist because Griffith's will is absolute,
Hahaha, no politics at all? That's a little absurd. There's politics in everything -- even in a scenario where apostles rule the human race. Griffith can't make every little decision in every little podunk province in the kingdom. I believe what Locus meant by his statement in ep 295 was that _human_ politics won't have any place in the coming age, specifically the countries aligning themselves outside Wyndham's borders that are mentioned in the episode as trying to be schemers. They won't be in any position to issue policy, and thus, control the politics of the country.

Quote
 They will be blinded in awe and wonder, those who aren't swayed will be taken care off, disposed and fed to the Apostles, this would ensure that politics would be killed off as there would be no human that would question Griffith.
I don't think so. That's not really how Griffith has operated in the past. Remember how he dealt with Foss, for example. After forcing him to play a role in the assassination of the Queen, he gave Fossa choice, left it in his hands whether to betray Griffith or fall in line. It's a common thread with Griffith in many scenarios. Which leads me to believe his rule won't be absolute. People will always have an option, but they won't seek it out because this scenario has been arranged a millennia ago. He's already loved by all. Who would rebel? Oh yeah...!  :guts:

So if the logic of this world is ending could that mean multiple layers are going to merge. Which means more Qliphoth's and trolls and such. Definitely be dark.
We've been talking about that for about 6 years now. Thanks for tuning in to SKnet  :void: (Also, the Qliphoth is a unique location, where nightmare creatures are born. Saying there will be more of them is like saying the Vortex of Souls will replicate. Or the Abyss will double or triple.)

Quote
Plus how many apostles would there even be after this conflict. I'm sure Griffith and his lieutenants could quickly put down and take out those who don't obey. The only way for their to be a split would be if Zodd or Grunbeld etc. were to lead the other party or if a lot of apostles decide to kill humans at the same time.
I'm not proposing they rebel now. But there's no telling what the circumstances will be even 20 episodes in the future. Many variables could present themselves. Rather, it's a surety variables will appear with the story's continued development. It seems naive to limit the specifics of a hypothetical rebellion within the available circumstances right now. It sounds a little absurd as I type it, but I'd actually really appreciate an apostle with an aptitude for scheming, beyond the brutishness of Ganishka.

Quote
If there are apostle groups that split and cause problems wouldn't Griffith and his loyal apostles and humans fight those dissenters. For I would assume Griffith wants to keep humans around seeing as how he has gone to such lengths for Charlotte and the Pope and his people. Unless he just wants them for livestock and such.
Truly, if humans began to be eaten because of rebel apostles, it's all within the flow of causality, and Griffith would just smile  :griffnotevil:
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: vanheat on April 21, 2009, 06:33:12 PM
To start out, I'm really surprised there's been such outcry to my little theory. I don't think it's that outlandish, really. Simply put, Griffith is playing with fire by allying human-eating monsters with humans. It can't last forever. Do people really think it will? Anyway there's already a clear rift between  the ... *ahem* ... "virtuous" apostles, who possess many qualities humans would admire, and those of the more rape-and-pillage variety. And soon, these baser creatures won't have a war to satiate their lusty appetite. What then? Have them share bunk beds with humans? An alliance built on the brotherhood built during a time of war? Seems quite tenuous. Moving on...
Your theory is not outlandish at all, but it has more to do with what Griffith will do with his Apostle army or how he will act hereafter. There is no question that the apostles and humans cannot coexist w/out friction or factions. But will Griffith really keep them around humans is the question. If so then your theory is my num #1 fav. But I guess they probably will stick around unless Griffith can (or wants to) send them troll hunting or force other kingdoms into submission. Apostles and humans will probably also not be able to fight together after this battle.
We've been talking about that for about 6 years now. Thanks for tuning in to SKnet  :void: (Also, the Qliphoth is a unique location, where nightmare creatures are born. Saying there will be more of them is like saying the Vortex of Souls will replicate. Or the Abyss will double or triple.)
Yes, well 6 years ago I was in Elementary School. I said those three lines to show that the apostles beneath Griffith might or could have something to do afterwards especially for those who always need something to munch on.
I'm not proposing they rebel now. But there's no telling what the circumstances will be even 20 episodes in the future. Many variables could present themselves. Rather, it's a surety variables will appear with the story's continued development. It seems naive to limit the specifics of a hypothetical rebellion within the available circumstances right now. It sounds a little absurd as I type it, but I'd actually really appreciate an apostle with an aptitude for scheming, beyond the brutishness of Ganishka.
An apostle scheming against Griffith is like an apostle scheming against The IoE. If some apostles do scheme later on and start a riot then a whole lot of shit will go down and we will see how well Griffith can handle that situation. But I'm sure he will be able to pick up on the mood of his apostles and predict who will challenge his rule, assuming he cares, or wants to act.
Truly, if humans began to be eaten because of rebel apostles, it's all within the flow of causality, and Griffith would just smile  :griffnotevil:
Probably.

I wonder if Griffith even knows what all will happen afterwards. If he does then I'm sure he knows what he wants to do unless he literally just flows with causality and what happens, happens. Also if the God Hand shows up then all sorts of stuff can happen.

Hard to speculate without even knowing what the world and circumstances will be after Ganishka is downed.
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Henry Spencer on April 21, 2009, 10:25:17 PM
I think Wyald being one apostle who went against the tide was more than just a simple bit of foreboding on Miura's part. :carcus:

I can see the apostles splitting up into factions, and I can also see Griffith having a hard time maintaining his kingdom. Maybe the ruin of his empire will actually be an internal thing, rather than say Guts just going in there and destroying everything himself (which I just cannot see happening). :troll:

I also think the humans may have factions amongst themselves too, those who have had enough of being ruled by somebody who alliances himself with monsters?

With Griffith being alongside the shady types like Minister Foss (one we have known to gossip and fear Griffith) and Rakshas (one who actually wishes to kill Griffith), I can actually see him spreading fear upon his land, in order to keep peace and restoration.
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Oburi on April 21, 2009, 11:54:37 PM

I can see the apostles splitting up into factions, and I can also see Griffith having a hard time maintaining his kingdom. Maybe the ruin of his empire will actually be an internal thing, rather than say Guts just going in there and destroying everything himself (which I just cannot see happening). :troll:

...No..just no.

With Griffith being alongside the shady types like Minister Foss (one we have known to gossip and fear Griffith) and Rakshas (one who actually wishes to kill Griffith), I can actually see him spreading fear upon his land, in order to keep peace and restoration.

You make it seem like Griffith and Foss are hanging out together. I don't think Griffith gives a shit about Foss at all. And as for spreading fear across the land, I don't think Griffith will need Foss for that. I'm sure Griffith, the fifth of the Godhand reborn into the physical world, leading and army of apostles, can spread fear and death on his own, if thats what he wants to do.  And you keep saying that Rakshas wants to kill Griffith. He is serving under him right now and all he said when he first met him was that someday he would collect his pretty head. Is it possible he was being less serious than you believe? Rakshas kill Griffith?

I'll eat these words if Rakshas kills Griffith in his Godlike apostle form.
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Walter on April 22, 2009, 02:59:35 AM
With Griffith being alongside the shady types like Minister Foss (one we have known to gossip and fear Griffith) ... I can actually see him spreading fear upon his land, in order to keep peace and restoration.
And as for spreading fear across the land, I don't think Griffith will need Foss for that.
Man, I'm seriously LOLing here, guys. You really have it in for poor ex-Minister Foss! I can see it now .. MINISTER OF FEAR: FOSS-DONO, sending plagues to every rebel village! :schnoz:

Don't you realize he's reformed his old ways since more than 4 years ago? Since then he no longer schemes along with the nobles, only looks forward to when the Falcon will take power.  He's a new, better man. This is evidenced as far back as volume 17. But you guys are picking on him for things he did when Midland still had a king AND queen, for christsake! It's just because he's bald, isn't it?  :azan:
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Oburi on April 22, 2009, 03:43:20 AM
Oh oops. Walter I mistook what Mr. Spencer said at first. I didn't realize he was trying to say that Foss could be some kind of threat to Griffith or anything like that. Yea that's ridiculous, Walter is correct about Foss being a new man of sorts. LOL yea thats funny shit now that I think about it. Foss isn't the little scheming "shady type" anymore. lol. He is still bald though.
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Henry Spencer on April 22, 2009, 06:54:30 PM
I feel Foss may still be harbouring the fear of Griffith. I feel that fear may overcome him in the future, and he may become a victim of his own fear, so's to speak. I don't have anything against the guy, at all.

...No..just no.

I was only kidding about that, mate.
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Rhombaad on April 23, 2009, 01:39:11 AM
I feel Foss may still be harbouring the fear of Griffith. I feel that fear may overcome him in the future, and he may become a victim of his own fear, so's to speak.

Nah, he's learned his lesson and is fully vested in Griffith now.  That's not to say that he may feel differently about Griffith one day (if he realizes what the Falcon truly is), but I think his scheming days are over.
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: smoke on May 03, 2009, 05:08:02 PM
I'm more interested in what Griff will actually do once he has his own kingdom. What's the first decree in the new land of Falconia going to be? How will EMPEROR GRIFFITH conduct business? The obvious assumption is that he'll be a cruel tyrant, given that he's going to usher in an "age of darkness".

He's always wanted to have this great governing power, but he's never said what he'd do with that power. Being a king seems to be the ends, not the means.

Maybe he'll get bored of it after a couple of weeks.
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: noni_moon on May 03, 2009, 05:25:33 PM
Quote
I'm more interested in what Griff will actually do once he has his own kingdom.

Me too, but I'm actually much more interested in how would Griffith feel, think, react, etc on the exact moment that he'll be crown as king. The moment when he realize that his dream has finally came true..
 
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: smoke on May 03, 2009, 06:04:57 PM
how would Griffith feel, think, react, etc on the exact moment that he'll be crown as king.
 

My guess: An expressionless gaze.  :griff:
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Aazealh on May 03, 2009, 06:53:17 PM
My guess: An expressionless gaze.  :griff:

(http://aazealh.net/Divers/Griffith-expression01.jpg) .(http://aazealh.net/Divers/Griffith-expression02.jpg) .(http://aazealh.net/Divers/Griffith-expression03.jpg)
Choice AChoice BChoice C
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: jackson_hurley on May 03, 2009, 07:16:03 PM
I'm voting for picture C

Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Oburi on May 03, 2009, 07:18:34 PM
I'm voting for picture C



Same here
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: noni_moon on May 03, 2009, 08:16:29 PM
pfff, I'm a sucker for cuteness, so I'll pick Choice A.  :griffnotevil:
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Death May Die on June 12, 2009, 01:43:51 AM
I wonder if "ironically" Falconia will be the kingdom to escape to and defend the people from the new world of the "Age of Darkness." Making Griffith's kingdom pose as even more magnificent. Its like a monopoly, one thing supports the other, and each step enriches Griffith with some sort of power and false praise.

Griffith has created a world that perhaps forces people to turn to him, not by force but by choice in faith. Thats seems even more evil, having the power to force people to serve you, rather, he take the long road and gain their soul/faith in his false lead.
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Aazealh on June 12, 2009, 12:10:20 PM
I wonder if "ironically" Falconia will be the kingdom to escape to and defend the people from the new world of the "Age of Darkness." Making Griffith's kingdom pose as even more magnificent.

That's a good possibility of course, one I mentioned several times in the past myself.
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Walter on September 30, 2009, 06:26:00 PM
Though we've now seen the outside of Falconia, and a peek at its interior, the future still holds many mysteries about what life will be like inside its high walls.

Recently I've been thinking Rickert could be among the new perspectives within Falconia in the coming years. I can see him and Erica moving into Falconia, and the readers would get a good glimpse of what daily life is like in the city for "common" people like them. And also, because of Griffith's offer in vol 22, we may even get a glimpse at some behind the scenes stuff from Rickert's perspective.

What makes me think it'll be Rickert and not someone else? Well, Rickert's special because of his relationship with Griffith and Guts. He's known them since the beginning. Rickert knows them better than anyone else from that period, and so he's in a unique position to judge their actions accordingly ("The real Griffith wouldn't... Do that."). Also, since he wasn't among the entranced crowd outside Wyndham during the final battle with Ganishka, he provides a more balanced perspective than those who may deify Griffith as their ultimate savior.

Either way, I'm excited about what the future holds.  :serpico:
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Rhombaad on September 30, 2009, 06:34:27 PM
Recently I've been thinking Rickert could be among the new perspectives within Falconia in the coming years. I can see him and Erica moving into Falconia, and the readers would get a good glimpse of what daily life is like in the city for "common" people like them. And also, because of Griffith's offer in vol 22, we may even get a glimpse at some behind the scenes stuff from Rickert's perspective.

What makes me think it'll be Rickert and not someone else? Well, Rickert's special because of his relationship with Griffith and Guts. He's known them since the beginning. Rickert knows them better than anyone else from that period, and so he's in a unique position to judge their actions accordingly ("The real Griffith wouldn't... Do that."). Also, since he wasn't among the entranced crowd outside Wyndham during the final battle with Ganishka, he provides a more balanced perspective than those who may deify Griffith as their ultimate savior.

Either way, I'm excited about what the future holds.  :serpico:

That would be pretty cool, and it's definitely something I can see happening. It's probably not too safe outside Godot's house right now with all the astral creatures running wild, and since word of Falconia is likely to spread, I'm sure he'd attempt the journey to Griffith's city in order to ensure Erica's safety.

I'd love to see some sort of confrontation between him and Griffith now that Rickert knows what happened to the Falcons. I wonder how he'd feel about the new Band of the Falcon, too.
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Henry Spencer on September 30, 2009, 10:24:10 PM
Also, with Rickert within the walls of Falconia would give Guts even more of a reason to head in. The sheer scale of the whole thing though, how would Guts ever be able to infiltrate the place without being recognised (sure, Schierke could use magic, but it only goes so far, the amount of apostles outweighs the easily swayed humans from guarding)?

And a chance encounter with Rickert and Mule would be very interesting indeed. Would Rickert reveal his identity with the new Band of the Hawk if he saw them, and would his feelings for Griffith continually change over the course of his stay?

Maybe Rickert would be the reader's observer, seeing things as he does. I can only imagine the interior being nothing short of fabulous.
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: asmer on October 01, 2009, 06:42:23 AM
with Rickert within the walls of Falconia would give Guts even more of a reason to head in

But HOW would Guts even know?

He choose to head for a very hazardous trip without Rickert, so I don't feel he would go to Falconia because Rickert is there.....

Furthermore, we don't know for sure Rickert's feelings about Griffith, but last time they met Griffith was riding on Zodd's back, so I guess now Rickert wouldn't trust Griffith the way he did before?

I'm as sure as everyone else that we'll see him again, but I'm not that confident it'll be in Falconia? :???:
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Rhombaad on October 01, 2009, 02:35:36 PM
Furthermore, we don't know for sure Rickert's feelings about Griffith, but last time they met Griffith was riding on Zodd's back, so I guess now Rickert wouldn't trust Griffith the way he did before?

While we don't know his exact feelings, he was clearly very upset after hearing what happened during the Eclipse. I'm sure he still has some fondness for Griffith deep down, but I imagine he's not very happy about what happened to the Guts, Casca and the rest of the Falcons.
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Aazealh on October 01, 2009, 08:37:56 PM
It's probably not too safe outside Godot's house right now with all the astral creatures running wild, and since word of Falconia is likely to spread, I'm sure he'd attempt the journey to Griffith's city in order to ensure Erica's safety.

But journeying to Falconia could be even more dangerous than staying up in the mountains. Besides, Rickert knows what Griffith is capable of and that he's associated with apostles, so are you really sure he'll go there?

I'd love to see some sort of confrontation between him and Griffith now that Rickert knows what happened to the Falcons. I wonder how he'd feel about the new Band of the Falcon, too.

I doubt he'd find it very tasteful. I'm also not sure he'd have much to tell Griffith and vice versa. It's kind of been a long time, and in a way, they've both moved on (in very different directions, I might add).

Also, with Rickert within the walls of Falconia would give Guts even more of a reason to head in. The sheer scale of the whole thing though, how would Guts ever be able to infiltrate the place without being recognised (sure, Schierke could use magic, but it only goes so far, the amount of apostles outweighs the easily swayed humans from guarding)?

The Skull Knight could use his beherit sword technique and bring them inside instantly.

And a chance encounter with Rickert and Mule would be very interesting indeed. Would Rickert reveal his identity with the new Band of the Hawk if he saw them, and would his feelings for Griffith continually change over the course of his stay?

I don't know... Mule has already a thing going with Isidro. I think the character of Rickert is beyond this stuff now. If they met, I imagine Rickert would be evasive, a bit like Guts was with Owen.

While we don't know his exact feelings, he was clearly very upset after hearing what happened during the Eclipse. I'm sure he still has some fondness for Griffith deep down, but I imagine he's not very happy about what happened to the Guts, Casca and the rest of the Falcons.

Honestly I'm not sure he has much fondness left for Griffith. Guts said he couldn't hate Griffith, but that doesn't mean he likes him. I think Rickert has simply moved on. Running after an impossible revenge isn't a life for him.
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Minotaur on November 15, 2009, 03:47:28 AM
I wonder what will happen to Charlotte since it never really seemed to me like Griffith felt anything for her.
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Gobolatula on November 15, 2009, 05:05:20 AM
I wonder what will happen to Charlotte since it never really seemed to me like Griffith felt anything for her.
Well, it seems like he can fake it enough to win her heart. He will be king, she will be queen.

I'd probably rule out a baby, but... that'd be interesting.

If (or when) things in Falconia get truly twisted, I can see her getting kinda irked. Though she is seriously faithful to her Griffy-poo
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Rhombaad on November 15, 2009, 06:06:15 AM
I wonder what will happen to Charlotte since it never really seemed to me like Griffith felt anything for her.

He didn't. She was a tool he tried to use to get the throne during the Golden Age and this time he has succeeded. I think she'll eventually learn the truth, I just hope it won't be the end of her. She's one of the people I feel most sorry for in Berserk.
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Minotaur on November 16, 2009, 12:30:04 AM
He could work like some of history's tyrants and slowly eliminate anyone who could defy him. Once they are gone he could turn midland into a place where nobody but him has any political power.
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Aazealh on November 16, 2009, 09:20:05 AM
He could work like some of history's tyrants and slowly eliminate anyone who could defy him. Once they are gone he could turn midland into a place where nobody but him has any political power.

Does he need to go through such hoops though? He's already got absolute military power and is a true hero to everyone (or close) in Midland. Beyond that, he's got supernatural powers that place him far above them all (and they're going to live in a magnificent city that appeared out of nowhere and is shaped around him).
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Minotaur on November 16, 2009, 10:23:12 PM
Quote
Does he need to go through such hoops though? He's already got absolute military power and is a true hero to everyone (or close) in Midland. Beyond that, he's got supernatural powers that place him far above them all (and they're going to live in a magnificent city that appeared out of nowhere and is shaped around him).

True why do unnecessary work.
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Xem on November 28, 2009, 10:29:06 PM
One of the many thing's I've been wondering about, and has been discussed to an extent before, is how exactly the apostles and humans will live side by side next to each other within Falconia.

Something I've touched on in the past is how Miura has somewhat curiously left out any frames of apostles transforming back to their human forms. I mean, even after Ganishka was "dead", the battle ended, and everyone began piling into Falconia, the apostles still retained their monstrous forms. It could just be that it made the scene more dramatic - showing apostles in their atrocious forms marching alongside humans into their new domain - "good and evil" working side by side.

Regardless, this curiosity has led me to into another inquiry:

- The Hierarchy of Apostles within Falconia -

I've been wondering, just how exactly will humans and the more obviously evil, flesh-eating, woman-raping, apostles will measure up in Griffith's seemingly dreamlike Utopia. I think a good example goes back to the New Band of the Hawk, where we saw that apostles like Locus, Grunbeld, and Zodd, all held a higher status than normal soldiers. Relatively side by side with them were the more notable humans, like Sonia and Mule - followed by the regular human soldiers. And then, what I perceived as the lowest ranks, most likely due to their expend-ability, were the "lesser apostles".

I see this same hierarchy working similarly within Falconia, but with the addition of nobles, religious and political figureheads, and other popular and capable people. Surely, once inside Falconia, all of the apostles would revert to their more "human-like" forms, and they could be more easily integrated into this new society. I doubt Zodd will just go flying around scaring the shit out of people constantly, or the "demon soldiers" eating humans at their leisure. Of course these "demon soldier" apostles will more than likely have the desire to disregard the new pact between human and apostle, but similar to the situation in the episode in which Sonia was showing Mule the Hawks camp, they can easily be kept at bay, or even possibly be gotten rid of if needed be due to their expendable nature.

I can't think of any other story in literature that even got close to such a concept, but these evil-natured monsters could very well become just another part of daily life within the world of Berserk for the normal citizens of Falconia. Honestly, the whole concept just seems so bizarre that it's hard to wrap my head around, but with the recent events, it seems pretty plausible to me.
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Saintly pants on November 29, 2009, 10:56:40 AM
He didn't. She was a tool he tried to use to get the throne during the Golden Age and this time he has succeeded. I think she'll eventually learn the truth, I just hope it won't be the end of her. She's one of the people I feel most sorry for in Berserk.

I'm still at volume 10 right now, but from what i understand of it Griffith will most definitely dispose of Carlotte shortly after he married her and got on the throne. That, or he will make her a demon slave/reveal his true Femto persona to her and break her mind wile at it, turning her into a meek doll in pretty dresses that he can use to parade around with to hold up the facade.

Or maybe they will have a child, starting a dinasty of legal demon rule.  The God Hand seems more lawful evil then chaotic evil to me.
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Oburi on November 29, 2009, 12:39:30 PM
Dude if your only at book 10 stop ruining the story for yourself. Just read and catch up before you make speculations on current events.
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Saintly pants on November 29, 2009, 01:48:26 PM
Even tough i have lots of stuff spoiled, i don't really care so much about it. Buying the manga after seeing the anime and all.
Still, the one thing i don't want to know is the ultimate ending of the story. Wich probably won't be possible before 2030 or later.  :sad:

Even so, it's pretty obvious there is a huge probablility Charlotte will end up even more Broken then Casca. I get uneasy just thinking about it.  Gilded cage + :femto: = not good
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Gobolatula on November 29, 2009, 02:37:27 PM
I think if you were to catch up on the manga, you may think differently. I agree with Oburi about spoiling the story, but ultimately that's up to you. You might wanna catch up in order to better your contributions to discussions.

I'm not saying you don't bring up interesting stuff; I've always wondered about the ultimate fate of Charlotte myself.
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Oburi on November 29, 2009, 04:41:31 PM
Even if Griffith reveals his true nature to Charlotte she might not become "broken" like Casca. It would actually be worse if she accepts it. THat's the ultimate control that Griffith has right now. Theres nothing worse than being a prisoner and not knowing it.  He could brainwashed the entire world to his will. That's ultimate power.
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Saephon on November 29, 2009, 05:03:27 PM
It's cliche, but I'm banking on Charlotte aiding Guts and co. one last time before the end, and then Griffith kills her for her treachery.  :femto:

As for Falconia, I've been wondering about the more important Apostles' role. What Griffith has right now is a city filled with essentially four groups: Apostle generals, lesser apostles, human politicians/figureheads, and human commoners/military. I'm curious to see how delegation is handled, if at all. I mean, you've got some people who have been in the nobility their whole lives; do you let them continue their duties from Midland? Are any of the higher-ranked Apostles suitable for a position other than policing or brute enforcement? (And is Midland's human army even necessary anymore?) So many questions...such difficulty in figuring much out until it happens. And this is all on the assumption that this new world is going to strive to appear or even be equal. I suppose it's possible Griffith will just rule with fear, over both human and apostle alike; it's not like anyone stands a chance against him.

...And then finally we have come full circle, making that horrid first episode of the anime correct: "Things have been awful ever since Griffith became king."  :griffnotevil:
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Oburi on November 29, 2009, 06:00:56 PM
...And then finally we have come full circle, making that horrid first episode of the anime correct: "Things have been awful ever since Griffith became king."  :griffnotevil:

Haha, an inconsistency in the anime that makes sense after all these years.
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Xem on November 29, 2009, 09:02:57 PM
Haha, an inconsistency in the anime that makes sense after all these years.

It still doesn't make any sense, no matter how you slice it.

Even if some of the apostles get away with the occassional feasting and raping on the humans, it still wouldn't be as bad as it was before Griffith. Let's be honest, the first episode of the anime is so messed up, especially continuity wise, it'll never make sense.

Quote from: Saephon
What Griffith has right now is a city filled with essentially four groups: Apostle generals, lesser apostles, human politicians/figureheads, and human commoners/military. I'm curious to see how delegation is handled, if at all. I mean, you've got some people who have been in the nobility their whole lives; do you let them continue their duties from Midland?

This is what I've been wondering about, and what I tried to convey on the previous page. My instinct tells me yes, to an extent anyway. The impression I've always got is that Griffith's dream was to become king in the traditional sense, not a power-hungry evil dictator. It's not like Falconia rose up as this dark and ominous kingdom of wickedness. By looking at the infrastructure, we see monuments and places of worship, which portray it as a place of sanctuary for all the humans in peril.

I'm sure the likes of the Pope, Minister Foss, and the other nobles and religious/political figureheads will find themselves right at home, safe and sound, inside this new kingdom.

Quote from: Saephon
Are any of the higher-ranked Apostles suitable for a position other than policing or brute enforcement? (And is Midland's human army even necessary anymore?)

Sure, why not? Just like any of the other Generals we've seen in the past, they certainly have their place within the ranks of the heirarchy. Also, in a medieval setting there's always a need for an army, even in times of peace. Especially when you have Goblins, Trolls, Dragons, etc etc, roaming outside the castle walls at all times.

A somewhat misplaced example would be when Alexander the Great conquered the known world. It's not like all war had come to an end by any means. An empire that vast is incredibly difficult to micromanage, and there's bound to be little pockets of resistance floating about at all times. Hell, maybe even some of the Kushan armies that weren't there at the deciding battle could be around, planning more attacks against Midland's new kingdom. Who's to say Daiba is going to side with Griffith either, he is the one who gave Ganishka his beherit in the first place. Maybe he now harbors hatred for what Griffith did to his emperor?

Quote from: Saephon
I suppose it's possible Griffith will just rule with fear, over both human and apostle alike; it's not like anyone stands a chance against him.

What would be the point? All of the apostles already instinctively follow him, and even if they don't like it, they all know it's pointless to resist. I'd say that fear sustains itself, without Griffith needing to put his foot down and rule with an iron fist. As for the humans, well, I think the whole "messiah" imagery they've gotten throughout all of this is all that's needed to have their sworn allegiance.


........


Another interesting speculation has just occured to me. Throughout the Golden Age, when Griffith first started his path towards achieving his dream, his main moto has always been, "Do as you wish.". Perhaps this could be his mission statement as the new King of Midland. I like that idea, and it'd leave a lot of interesting opportunities open as to how Falconia could develop.
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Doc on December 01, 2009, 12:09:50 PM
I have the feeling that for all Falconia's glory and splendour, there will be a grim underworld where the dark forces are satiated. Griffith, being the grand Machiavellian that he is, will keep it under wraps until Charlotte discovers it and her world is turned upside down. That's one theory anyway. :P

I can't see Griffith disposing of Charlotte without legitimate reason. It doesn't make any sense, when he can keep up appearances with them both united on the throne.
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: KnightofSkeleton on January 27, 2010, 02:21:14 AM
I have the feeling that for all Falconia's glory and splendour, there will be a grim underworld where the dark forces are satiated. Griffith, being the grand Machiavellian that he is, will keep it under wraps until Charlotte discovers it and her world is turned upside down. That's one theory anyway. :P

I can't see Griffith disposing of Charlotte without legitimate reason. It doesn't make any sense, when he can keep up appearances with them both united on the throne.

I agree. If Falconia is a land where every one is happy, there has to be side effects.  Just read the novel, "Utopia".  Falconia might be something like the nation of this novel.  it seems ethereal and paradise on earth like, but there are slaves on the side doing the dirty work, selling their children, and live with no humanitarian rights. 
If not, then it will be blatantly evil and iron fisted.  :femto:
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Bekul on January 27, 2010, 04:08:44 AM
I think there's a lot of room between 'Iron Fisted' and 'Anarchy' - Griffith is living out his own fairy-tale at the moment. Really, at the moment, any speculation we can make, even based off the characters as we know them, is just there - there's too many external factors to account for, such as individual apostles, humans, surviving Kushans, the magical creatures in general, not to mention the other God Hand and the Idea of Evil itself.
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: fuxberg on January 27, 2010, 11:56:54 PM
(http://www.80stees.com/images/products/How_I_Met_Your_Mother_Its_Going_To_Be_Legen-Wait_For_it_Dary-T-link.jpg)
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Minotaur on February 09, 2010, 06:03:08 AM
I have a feeling Griffith's castle will look like Neuschwanstein in this picture or at least have the clouds.
http://nature.wallpaperme.com/3045-1/Fairy+Tale+Fantasy_+Neuschwanstein+Castle_+Bavaria_+Germany.jpg
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Walter on February 09, 2010, 06:44:49 AM
I have a feeling Griffith's castle will look like Neuschwanstein in this picture or at least have the clouds.
http://nature.wallpaperme.com/3045-1/Fairy+Tale+Fantasy_+Neuschwanstein+Castle_+Bavaria_+Germany.jpg
But... we've already seen Falconia. Are you saying there will be ANOTHER castle/fortress?
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Minotaur on February 23, 2010, 09:20:14 PM
Sorry what I meant to say is before we saw Falconia I thought the castle would look like that. I bet the torture chambers will be unpleasant!
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: BiQ-- on April 07, 2010, 07:45:20 PM
Why would Griffith be anything else than a benevolent king who makes every human happy (not counting any prophecies)? An existential midlife crisis rising from the fact he has no more goals in his now eternal (notwithstanding certain vengeful swordsman) life?
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Gobolatula on April 08, 2010, 03:44:37 AM
I agree. I cannot wait to see the Griffith that's done all he's set out to do; the "what now?" Griffith... Then again, the work of a ruler is never over... Especially a Demon God Ruler...
Title: Re: What will Falconia be like?
Post by: Panicfactorx on June 04, 2010, 03:40:43 AM
The "logic" of the old world has ended. Gods, monsters, and other astral entities have been integrated into the new world. Anything seems possible. I came from a strongly religious background (SDA if anyone knows what that is). My old religion had a certain understanding of Revelation (a long winded topic that I'm sure most people would laugh at...). Its almost like Griffith is Satan, acting as Jesus who has come down to earth to save the humans from the apparent "Satan/ganishka". Griffith is like the anti-Christ.

I don't think we're going to see a Utopia. An age of darkness... What will be the mortal wound to the great beast? Who is the true messiah? Is it Guts... or will Falconia suffer the same fate as Gaiseric's Midland?