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Messages - Moongloom

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I'm not at all convinced Guts takes a step back anyway

I agree, it is ambiguous. The cinematic lines are quite confusing, and Guts is depicted, in the previous pages, sometimes with the left leg behind, and sometimes with the right.
The posture in the instant of the attack allows either that he is making a step backwards, or that he is striking on the place; but it looks like a very unbalanced posture, if he is going to thrust forward.

It's possible that Griffith simply was too slow to act.

As further evidence for this claim, let me point out that Corkus had the time for TWO remarks during Griffith's attack :)

Hi Moongloom, glad you could join us. :serpico:

Thank you.  :azan:

For all your analysis though, there's one thing I'm surprised you haven't mentioned: Guts purposedly broke the sword. He wanted to disarm Griffith, not harm him, and that's exactly what he did. Instead of Griffith just parrying his blow, Guts struck his saber specifically to break it. Few people seem to realize how that shows Guts' superiority as a swordsman.

I am perplexed. Assuming that it is possible to intentionally break a sword (and we know that in the Berserk world it IS possible  :zodd: :zodd:"), I don't see any evidence that this is what really happened in this case, rather than simply the saber breaking because of Griffith's own attempt to deflect Guts's sword. Do you?

I suspect you might be hinting at the fact that the two swords hit each other on the opposite side with respect to Griffith's anticipations (or was it something else?). I used to interpret this as Griffith being too late because of the unexpectedly greater distance between the two swords.

On another side, a (weak) argument against your thesis is that a strike aimed at Griffith's sword should most likely miss Griffith himself; instead, it flies straight to his shoulder.

It's funny because if you check out every fight in the series, you'll find that Guts is actually a very cunning fighter and far from mindless. He only "goes berserk" in specific occasions.

It is true. He seemed to be quite meditative even during the fight with 100 men. And it would be highly unlikely that Griffith hadn't realized this after many years together at war.

Hello everybody, I am interrupting my life-long lurking because I saw that you were recently discussing the Guts-Griffith duel from Volume 8. I consider it one of the most crucial moments in the story, and there are a couple of aspects of that fight, which to me look quite important, that I have never seen to be pointed out in the forum.

It is correct that

Guts won because he was a better swordsman at that point.

Indeed, many characters in that scene (Judo, Casca and Griffith, I think) make remarks to that effect.
However, things may be explained at a different level of detail, or abstraction; for example, what was the physical reason why the saber broke?

It is also true that

It's shown that Griffith knew what he was doing. He planned his attack

...but what is not pointed out here is that in Griffith's plan there is one little mistake; a discrepancy between his predictions and reality.
In Griffith's predictions, Guts is shown thrusting forward with his usual ferocity. But in the real duel, we see Guts take a step _backwards_ (check where the bodyweight lies in each picture...).
Therefore, the distance between the two in the real duel, at the moment of the swords' impact, is much greater than in Griffith's expectancy. So, Guts's sword strikes at a much greater speed/momentum than expected (in a circular movement, e.g. the slashing of a sword, the speed is greater as the distance from the center of rotation increases). I think this might be the physical reason why the saber broke, in Miura's intentions.

Secondly, this specific little mistake on the part of Griffith seems to shed some light on his relationship with Guts in that part of the story. Griffith expects Guts to behave, as usual, as a ferocious beast. Guts instead acts in a very rational manner. So, we might think that Griffith's mistake in this battle was to think of Guts as a predictable pawn, and not as a man in possession of an own intellect and will, really capable to follow his own path.

What do you think about these hypotheses? Perhaps I am reading too much in a detail, but I tend to think Miura is too subtle to depict such a discrepancy by mistake.

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