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Messages - Aazealh

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Current Episodes / Re: Episode 354
« on: March 03, 2018, 10:35:02 AM »
Or, yeah, they just have to kill their kid to Griffith for the greater good and it'll be as bad as that sounds. I'd be surprised though if there's not going to be some crazy yet hard won magical solution because that's completely consistent with how we got here (magic ceremonies), so it's a fair game solution as well (and we just went through a fantastic ritual to save/restore a character =). It's almost too perfect a motivation for Griffith's destruction, and the effort that would take, to coincide with the child's salvation, as well as our heroes and the world.

Yep, all good scenarios you listed and I think it'll fall somewhere in-between all those lines. They will be compelled to face Griffith to save the world, and their connection to him will be both a blessing and a curse. Their son will act as a unique Achilles' heel, but at the same time they will be torn over his potential fate. Casca will want to save him above all, while Guts will struggle to get past his overwhelming desire for revenge. And ultimately they'll manage – in extremis – to achieve the perfect result of killing Femto while saving the boy... but at what cost to themselves?

But the point of that particular comment of mine was really that it was a personal moment between Guts and Casca that will be need to be dealt with between the two of them.

Sure, although I don't think anyone was saying otherwise (well, except you in the previous episode thread).

As Griffith said, I don't think the assault is necessarily removed from the big picture.

Well I also didn't say it is "removed" from the big picture, just that it's a detail in it among many others, and not the most important one.

I don't think the assault will be a new pivotal plot point that will cause a rift between them either, because there already is a rift between them. And just like Casca dealing with her trauma, I think this is something that shouldn't be healed away with magic. It should be something that they work through and deal with the consequences of together.

I disagree. Casca was afraid of Guts (and of all men in general) in her previous state, but that person is gone. In fact it wasn't so much a person as an absence of one. Guts and Casca's relationship is effectively getting a reset here. If there has to be a chill between them, I don't think it will simply be inherited from the time she was insane. I don't think she'll wake up and instinctively be distrustful of Guts. Because even if she keeps her memories from that period or has flashes of them from time to time (I quite like that idea), her personality will make a big difference in how she processes them.

I think Episode 238 shows that he may have more ambivalent feelings towards him if nothing else. He doesn't feel anger or hatred when thinking of the child. Instead he seems more sad when he thinks that he may still be wandering around alone in the night.

Yeah that's what I was talking about.

But on the topic of the child being fused with Griffith's vessel (and the two of them probably sharing a body as well)

Just to be clear, the term "vessel" here refers specifically to the body. The child's corporeal body was overtaken by Femto during the Incarnation ceremony (where Femto "took flesh"), but his ego somehow survived the procedure.

I think the thought of exploiting his son's connection to Griffith would make his desire for revenge (and maybe even his dissatisfaction with prioritizing Casca) grow even stronger.

I'm sure the Beast of Darkness would find the idea delectable, but I doubt Guts as a whole would be fine with the boy's death. Also, there is no need to prioritize Casca's protection anymore, since she's cured.

She has shown a strong motherly instinct towards her son while her mind was regressed, but with the knowledge of him sharing a body with Femto, the man who raped her and sacrificed her comrades/subordinates to be slaughtered, I could easily see her contemplating or even making the decision that killing him would be for the best.

I have a hard time imagining Casca being Ok with killing her son.

Current Episodes / Re: Episode 354
« on: March 02, 2018, 07:30:06 PM »
Yeah, and as you pointed out, it already served to break their relationship so that could very well be taken for granted at this point and so we continue from there (they don't need to break it again before mending, just deal with it).


Definitely, and that could very well be two-sided. I still don't think Guts is going to be crazy about the Demon Child re-entering their lives in whatever form that takes. He finally softened on it a bit, but I think it's going to take a while for him to come around on the idea that he has a "legitimate" offspring that may not be a complete monster. Ultimately, I think the idea of taking their son, and their lives, back is what turns things for both of them though.

I think Guts will feel bad about his past behavior (he really was an asshole to the child). I've never forgotten the two pages at the end of episode 238 where he thinks about him. I think they're indicative of what's to come. There's tons of ways this could go, of course, but to me the real deal down the line will be facing the fact the boy is essentially fused with Femto. That could lead to an impossible choice: should they try to kill Griffith and kill their son in the process? It's easy to see how Guts and Casca could fall on opposite sides of the issue (though I would hope that all would end well eventually).

Current Episodes / Re: Episode 354
« on: March 02, 2018, 05:22:50 PM »
I don't know, I feel like you and I are discussing possible points of emphasis on two adjacent shades of gray here.

Yeah pretty much. Like I said, I do expect it to come up at some point, just not to be its own pivotal plot element that will make or break their relationship.
And I also think things that are never mentioned, like Guts' reaction to the Demon Child's birth or his subsequent treatment of him, have potential to be big points of contention.

Current Episodes / Re: Episode 354
« on: March 02, 2018, 09:53:45 AM »
The Digital Edition of YA is out:

Thanks for the reminder Raffo. Something I'm just now realizing, but the online editions of YA don't include the pin-up pages anymore, which means they also have a different cover. I like them better this way to be honest.

Current Episodes / Re: Episode 354
« on: March 02, 2018, 08:59:18 AM »
Miura's comment for this issue: I went to the exhibition of Noriyoshi Ohrai. A great part of our current drawing style resulted from the influence we received from him in our high school days.

What really makes those scenes still relevant to me is exactly what you said about Guts not being able to trust even himself in the end. I think that realization can go for Casca too, especially given the nature and cause of her trauma, her re-victimization, and Guts tragically becoming a part of it himself.

Well sure, but let's not forget what Guts & Casca's relationship was like to begin with. For example how she stabbed him with a sword before they first made love, or how he strangled her (then broke down crying) during the act. Like I said, it's not that those scenes are unimportant, but we have to remember who the real Casca was. A warrior who could fend for herself. A military leader who stood up to Guts when it was needed. That's the Casca we're getting back.

And of course, things are very different now, but that's also kind of the point. They both went through the Eclipse, and it has left a trauma that has dwarfed everything else. Guts is still completely haunted by it, and we've already been warned that Casca will be as well. I think everything else will be secondary to that, and to their objectives going forward (i.e. their son). Which is why it seems to me that people who focus too much on those two scenes from volume 23 are missing the big picture.

Current Episodes / Re: Episode 354
« on: March 01, 2018, 09:01:46 PM »
Forgot to say but thanks for the speedy summary! I was wondering if the Japanese text matches the quote above, or is it something along the lines of "We will surely meet again" or something else.

There is no subject in the Japanese sentence. However, given the context, it is pretty obviously referring to their previous exchange in episode 350 (where the Sprite says there's someone she wants to meet, and Farnese says she'll definitely help her meet him). So the version I posted is correct.

Or if she remember that back in vol 23, Guts did accidentally tries to harm her.

I've often seen people put a lot of emphasis on those events, which makes me think they don't understand their purpose. When Guts gets possessed and strangles Casca, it makes her afraid of him. It also shows he can't protect her perfectly by himself. It underlines how having to protect someone instead of fighting alone wears him down. Later, when he loses it and assaults her again, the point is that he can't even trust himself anymore. That's what tips the scales and makes him accept the company of Isidro, Farnese and Serpico. That's why he reluctantly lets people in: so they can look after Casca.

The point I'm making here is that those scenes have already served their purpose. Will they be referenced again? Probably. And it might even be Guts that tells her about it, out of guilt. But will it be a huge, pivotal plot point? I don't think so. Casca has been through much worse, and Guts himself arguably wronged her more when he left her alone for over two years to go hunt down apostles. They also have much more important things to care about. Like their son. Or Femto, the one who ruined their lives.

Not even Puck, who has been with Guts longer than anyone in the party  knows the real reason Casca is afraid of Guts.

You're mistaken. The sexual assault isn't the "real" reason Casca feared Guts. She became afraid of Guts after he strangled her. This is very clearly depicted in the manga and we see Guts reflect on it. That's why he then tied her up (which made her hate him more). The fact he forcefully kissed her and bit her breast several days or weeks later didn't help with the situation, but she had already stopped trusting him at that time (which is why she fled while he dozed off and stumbled into the brigands' camp). And we never see that second assault as making a difference in her behavior.

Podcast / Re: SkullKast: Episode 93
« on: February 27, 2018, 09:01:31 PM »
I'll be surprised if Farnese and Schierke walk away from the experience of the Eclipse as if it were only a bad dream, though I don't expect anything of that nature to be pivotal for their character development.

My thoughts as well.

Of course, if we had been recording Berserk podcasts back in 2010, you'd have heard me wishing for Ganishka, in his death throes, to be able to leave a scar on Griffith's face  :ganishka: :griffnotevil: (I still think that would have been cool, but it would have utterly neutered the power of Rickert's moment).

More importantly, it would have gone against one of the key aspects of Ganishka's character: that he was ultimately a pawn, playing his part in a story that went over his head. And that cemented something we astute readers already knew: no apostle, regardless of how strong they are, can hope to defy the God Hand.

Shootin' the Breeze / Re: New around here.
« on: February 24, 2018, 11:01:43 PM »
Edit: Oh I figure I should tell you this (Walter or someone else inevitably will if I don't) but a small correction, immediate releases in Berserk are called episodes while chapters refer to Arcs ala the Golden Age, Black Swordsman, etc, its a common mistake though so no worries :)

Actually chapters and arcs are different things. :slan:
We're currently in the Fantasia arc, and the chapter of the Elf Island.

Current Episodes / Re: Episode 354
« on: February 24, 2018, 10:46:45 PM »
I’m happy to see this forum is still living and breathing, and welcoming new strugglers! I really just wanted to peek my head in for once and share in this momentous occasion.

Nice to see you, old man. :SK:

P.S. The sea journey was awesome, don't make me fight you! :mozgus:

Current Episodes / Re: Episode 354
« on: February 23, 2018, 10:17:00 PM »
I don't even want to think what Guts's corridor of dreams would be.

I'd actually like to see that, as unlikely as it is. Casca and Puck venturing into that that tortured mind... that'd be quite a sight!

This could easily be taken as Guts deciding to go after revenge again (and I've seen a lot of people come to this conclusion). But I've also been wondering if this isn't him resigning himself to staying on Elfhelm with Casca for her sake. Since he comes to this decision after thinking to himself that Casca became insane because she couldn't cope with the trauma. Maybe he is deciding here that he doesn't repeat his previous mistake and leave her behind for revenge while she is in such a critical state. And the look in his eyes is one of frustration because he knows this means keeping himself away from what he wants.Of course things obviously wouldn't go that way or at least continue that way forever for the sake of the narrative. Just a thought.

Episode 331 acted in many ways as a reminder of various characters' state of mind, goals and current development. So there actually isn't much that is new in that scene with Guts. He still wants revenge for what Griffith did, but Casca's well-being is also still his top priority above everything else. Nothing has changed in that regard. Of course they'll have to get off the island eventually (and not just that, but head to Falconia for the final confrontation), but it's not going to come from Guts just being bloodthirsty. Circumstances that are out of their control will push them to do it. The real question is: what will these be?

We already have some clues, the most obvious one being that the flow of time in Skellig is different from what it is in the rest of the world. That means they can't stay too long. That also means anyone left behind is likely not to be seen again.

Current Episodes / Re: Episode 354
« on: February 23, 2018, 11:18:24 AM »
The various emotions and drama to come may not be quite as intense as what we just witnessed but it's going to be bubbly.

Oh I wouldn't be so sure, man. I think we're in for some very strong emotional moments going forward.

I think how the rape was handled in this episode was just about spot on. We've already experienced it when it happened, we've reflected on it with Guts and his right eye's last sight, and now I think the way we see it from Casca's perspective fits in well with how we've been experiencing her memories in the dream so far- where nothing has been overly dwelled on.

I agree, though I also stand by my first impression (that I would have liked that bottom panel to at least be a full page). One thing that also bears reminding is that the previous three episodes, which make up half of the sequence inside Casca's nightmare, have shown us Farnese and Schierke ascending a hill of horrors that is literally filled to the brim with penis monsters. It's all very explicit. And it culminated with them facing the king of the monsters, a dark falcon whose design is also deliberately penis-like. So I'm guessing Miura might have felt that he had hammered it in enough already.

As with the other memories we, again, get right to the point as all the terrors and violence swirl in a horrifying, disorienting vortex with only the rape scene piercing through all that confusion, emphasizing it's importance before the gorgeous two-page spread of Casca shattering into pieces of a broken doll- highlighting both the critical moment as well as finally revealing the knowledge Schierke and Farnese were chasing all this time.

Seeing her break at the midsection is another subtle cue that I appreciated.
On that note, nobody's talking about the Demon Child being the symbol for that last fragment anymore, but I'm still looking forward to how Miura will address the connection between the rape and the boy (and his corruption) in Casca's mind.

I really hope Guts gets what he wants though :sad:.

What happens next is anyone's guess, but you probably shouldn't expect a quick and simple conclusion. Guts and Casca's situation/relationship is complex in many ways. I have no doubt they will find each other again eventually, but the keyword here is "eventually". This episode showed Farnese and Schierke basically bringing Casca back without addressing her trauma at all, which means it will have to be dealt with going forward. On top of that, Casca now lives in a completely different world with different rules, she's in a strange place surrounded by strangers, and not only is Guts a pretty different person from who he was the last time she saw him, she herself is very different. And that's without even getting into the biggest deal of all: their son.

Now, when we go to this new episode, yes, Farnese & Schierke look surprised, hand to the mouth motion, but then immediatly go to "look! a heart!". Not even a finger-to-the-bridge-of-a-nose, give-me-a-minute, this-was-too-much, just boom, boom, boom, scene into the next one, clear mind to speak of curses and repercussions.

It's true, we don't see them dealing with the aftershock. I would have appreciated a page or a few panels showing them to be more affected by the event. However, Schierke warns Farnese to steel herself before they initiate the memory, and that might have mitigated the effect. We also do get that fantastic shot of Farnese's eyes as the memory rushes inside her, and her comments there, even more than the picture, are very telling. That brings me to what I think is an important detail: much like Casca's trauma has yet to be addressed, it's possible that Farnese and Schierke will feel the toll of what they experienced beyond the Corridor of Dreams. I wouldn't be surprised if they were haunted by what they've seen.

Another thing I noticed is, on the last page, when Casca opens her eyes, we see glowy things around, which are spores, and we're back to the "bed of magic mushrooms", to the real world already, this episode! I realize this may be obvious

Haha, I'm surprised that not everyone noticed it immediately. I mean, regardless of the spores, she's wearing her robes and all. And if you look at the penultimate page, they're clearly being "called back" to the waking world by Danan.

Speculation Nation / Re: Casca & The Idea of Evil
« on: February 22, 2018, 06:31:28 AM »
I smell a stew reference in here which compels me to speak.

I don't think the visuals we see are meant to suggest a direct connection between Casca's traumatic memories and the Idea of Evil. However there is a thematic connection here, a symbolical one, that is hard to ignore. I'm certain it is at least meant to evoke the Brand, which shares a common design with the Idea of Evil (not a coincidence). And it's only fitting for memories of the Eclipse.

The last thing I want to add is a quote from the Idea of Evil in episode 83: "I am the darkness that dwells in every human heart". How very apt. :idea:

Current Episodes / Re: Episode 354
« on: February 21, 2018, 08:49:33 PM »
This episode was really jam-packed with content, and not all of it is obvious.

For instance, the Demon Child. As I had mentioned when the previous episode was released, I didn't see how the child could be featured in the memories in a way that made sense, and so I wasn't surprised by his absence. He was a great symbol for what went down during the Eclipse, but that didn't mean he would be in there. However, Miura didn't just draw him as a placeholder. I believe seeing the Demon Child in this context has brought Schierke and Farnese much closer to learning about Guts and Casca's son, who I think we all know will be central to much of the story going forward. It will fit with the other puzzle pieces they've gathered, like the Moonlight Boy's strange power and his affection for Casca (and Guts).

I also think what went down between Farnese and the Sprite has all but put an end to her crush on Guts. I had noted this earlier on in the dream sequence, and I think her resolve to help Casca get over her trauma further solidifies it. We will most likely get one last scene where she reflects on it, but it's pretty much done. On that topic, I find it amazing that Farnese and Schierke can have that much character development while this part of the story isn't about them specifically. It's the kind of dense but coherent storytelling you can only find in Berserk.

Obviously, the biggest development of them all occurs at the end, when Farnese draws from her own experience, from her personal journey, and resolves that she will help Casca through her trauma like Guts (and the others) helped her through hers. Very powerful memory (a bit reminiscent of Guts in volume 17), and it both establishes Farnese as Casca's soon-to-be confidante (a rearranging of group dynamics I had predicted years ago), but also as the group's future therapist of sorts. That might include helping Guts and Casca find each other again, but it could be more as well. Isidro, Serpico and Schierke all have issues they could use some help with...

The memories contained in the last fragment were what we expected: what broke Casca, meaning the Eclipse and more specifically her rape by Femto. It lasts only four pages, which is shorter than I had figured it would be. I feel that a full page of Femto looming over her and a bigger shot of Guts being pinned down would have better underlined the horror and despair of the situation. That being said I can see why Miura chose to focus on Casca's feelings, on her inner eye, and like I said earlier today I really like how he depicted the shattering of her mind. Schierke and Farnese's dialog also lends it much more weight, what with Schierke warning Farnese in advance and that incredible shot of Farnese's eyes as she experiences Casca's unspeakable pain.

The falcon's attack was also expected, and while I can't say it served a deep purpose, it was effective at adding the necessary tension to the scene. I really like how it is depicted in this episode, and I like that it has the upper hand on the dog, even with Farnese's little armor boost. The way it simply ceases to exist, along with the rest, as soon as the last fragment is inserted in the doll was what I wanted to see and I like how it was done. That, along with how the dog returns at the end, fully healed, and howls to complete the ritual, also validates what I posited when we were introduced to the nightmare. All elements were parts of Casca: the dog was her fighting-spirit, the part of her that struggled and didn't want to give up. The Sprite represented her true self, her ego. The broken doll was her broken mind, and the falcon and assorted monsters were her dark emotions, resulting from the Eclipse, the parts of her that prevented her to return. Those were dominant, which is why she couldn't regain herself without outside intervention.

Side note: Farnese still clearly refers to Guts when she tells the Sprite she'll soon meet the one she longs for. Time will tell who the Sprite actually referred to, but the fact it literally goes into the Brand feels like it could be a reference to Casca's love for her son (who she can feel... through her Brand). It's not necessarily the case, but I could see it happening. Speaking of the Sprite, am I the only one sad to see her go? She's just so cute. :judo: Who knows, though, maybe she's not gone forever. After all, Casca won't have a "Beast of Darkness" per se, but Miura might choose to personify her trauma like he does for Guts.

One thing I did not expect was for Casca's trauma to not be addressed at all. They simply restore her there and then... but with the caveat that the trauma will have to be dealt with afterwards. It makes complete sense of course, as it will allow the issue to be dealt with progressively and over a long period of time. Now the big question is what will this new Casca be like? How will that darkness affect her? Can't wait to find out.

Current Episodes / Re: Episode 354
« on: February 21, 2018, 05:10:59 PM »
Preliminary translation courtesy of Puella. Because it's based on the Korean text (the quality of which we can't vouch for), there might be inaccuracies.

Page 01

Farnese: That is the last fragment ...A monster?
Schierke: It’s like a baby.

Schierke: ...I don't know why the last fragment has such a shape.
Schierke: However, prepare yourself.
Farnese: What?

Schierke: When I was almost swallowed by the Berserk's armor before, I had a glimpse of...
Schierke: Guts' memories...
Schierke: I never wanted to see it again if possible but...

Schierke: What we’re going to witness now is
Schierke: Probably the feast of madness!
Schierke: Be alert!

Page 04

Farnese: This is what broke Casca down...
Schierke: The main culprit.

Page 05

Farnese: No!

Schierke: You shouldn't get swept up! Don’t lose yourself!

Farnese: It's flowing in...! Casca's scream!

Farnese: I can't express it in words...
Farnese: I feel like my mind is riven (torn into pieces)...!

Page 09

Farnese: This is...

Page 10

Schierke: ...The last fragment is the heart.
Farnese: Then once we put it back in the doll in the coffin...

Schierke: Wait...
Farnese: Hmm?

Farnese: What's wrong with you?

Schierke: This shape...
Schierke: It probably has a curse.

Farnese: A curse... an incantation.

Farnese: What do you mean?
Farnese: You mean if we put it back in the doll, something bad will happen?
Schierke: Then...

Schierke: ...I was careless, it's unlike me...
Schierke: Because restoring Casca’s sanity was on my mind, I forgot this...

Page 11

Schierke: If she keeps her sanity while having memories of such a horrible experience
Schierke: It will bring her an enormous pain that we can't imagine.
Schierke: ...Precisely speaking, she rather broke down because she couldn't endure it.

Skull Knight: What you wish for may not be what she wishes for.
Schierke: ...I guess this is what he implied.

Page 12

Schierke: Be careful!

Page 13

Farnese: Guts...!

Page 15

Farnese: But...!
Schierke: We'll have no more chances if we miss now!

Farnese: ...You're scared.

Farnese: Sometimes, even though you're aware of that you're in gloomy darkness, you just huddle and can't move.
Farnese: You don't know what to do by yourself...

Page 16

Farnese: ...So, as he did for me at that time
Farnese: This time I myself, of my own, will blow away your darkness.

Schierke: Farnese

Farnese: Because I don't want to think those days I've had on the journey with Casca and you, teacher, and them are meaningless.

Page 17

Schierke: ...I see. Because, from the beginning... this itself is the goal of the corridor of dreams... no, of our journey.

Schierke: Come on, hurry up! This nightmare will be over with it!

Page 20

Farnese: A door...?

Farnese: You will be surely able to meet him.

Current Episodes / Re: Episode 354
« on: February 21, 2018, 01:43:06 PM »
Haha, damn, what a motherload.

The symbolism of having the memories of the Eclipse spiral down into a heart with thorns... Overpowering connection to the Brand and the Idea of Evil.

And then there's everything else! I'm surprised, and also kind of relieved, that Miura didn't dwell on the actual traumatic event –the rape– more than he did. I guess he did not want to make it the focus instead of the restoration process. I do find that panel of Farnese's eyes where she's "absorbing" it all to be pretty amazing (and appropriately sinister) though. And of course we do get to see that shot of Guts when he's pinned down. I'm a big fan of how Miura depicted Casca's breakdown too: literally being broken into pieces, reduced to that empty shell.

Not much to say about the struggle between the dog and the falcon (who cares, basically), but I liked how it all went away the moment they put the fragment back. I also liked that Farnese's own experience with her insecurities (lovely callback to her as a child under her blanket) helped convinced the Sprite to go for it. And her running to the Brand and opening it like a little door has got to be one of the cutest moments ever in the series. The symbolism of having the dog emerge from the darkness, himself being restored (notice his leg), and howl to announce the completion of the ritual is also very potent (helped by the light and cherry blossoms, which I guess also signify that they're being called back to the waking world).

Current Episodes / Re: Episode 354
« on: February 21, 2018, 11:00:34 AM »
The episode title is "Awakening", with a connotation of one being stimulated to wake.

Berserk Merchandise / Re: Prime 1 launches a Berserk line
« on: February 21, 2018, 09:30:01 AM »
I respect AoW, but that is objectively not how Zodd is supposed to look, where in the Manga did they find that enormous overbite and slanted nuzzle?! :schnoz:

Yes, that one's likeness is objectively terrible. His teeth can't even fit in his mouth...

Definitely a better cover.

It was always the best choice. Puzzling they went with something else in Japan... Bet some exec just said "Delos needs to be on it!".

Anime Asylum / Re: Berserk 2017 Blu-Ray
« on: February 14, 2018, 06:55:28 PM »
See, that's where this proves to be an extremely poor investment, since I can't read Japanese. It's like an 80 page booklet, with at least 25 of it being script, so I'd imagine it's pretty thorough.

Hm. Hard to believe it's all from Miura. On one hand I'm curious to know more, but on the other I'm definitely not going to invest in this stuff. Thanks for the info anyway!

Shootin' the Breeze / Re: Hola
« on: February 13, 2018, 09:43:17 PM »

November (5th anniversary of its release)

Wow, already five years... Time flies. :flora:

Anime Asylum / Re: Berserk 2017 Blu-Ray
« on: February 13, 2018, 09:39:11 PM »
Which just astounds me, considering I think it's the worst of 2016. I'm skeptical on him being the full-on writer forthe the episode--I get the feeling he just wrote the Apostle's backstory.

Well what does the bonus stuff show? I imagine that's the extent of what he contributed. How extensive is it?

Anime Asylum / Re: Berserk 2017 Blu-Ray
« on: February 12, 2018, 06:23:06 AM »
Box set 1 had the script and storyboard for episode 3 (you know, because THAT's the episode everyone loved-preme sarcasm).

This episode's script was produced by Miura, which is why they included it as a bonus.

Speculation Nation / Re: How much do we know about the World of Ideas?
« on: February 11, 2018, 08:16:07 PM »
Wow, thanks for answering so quickly.

No problem!

That's very interesting to know. If I'm understanding Plato's theory correctly, then these "forms" or "ideas are the "perfect" representation of their more flawed or imperfect counterparts, correct? If that is the case, then does that mean the Idea of Evil is the source of a "perfect" evil?

Well like I said in my first reply, it's not like Plato's theory actually applies here. It's an inspiration, but there are significant differences. I really don't think you'll get anywhere by trying to fit it to Berserk. In this case, from what we know of the Idea of Evil, it's not a "perfect form" of evil, but the conscious embodiment of the dark side of humanity's common consciousness. Completely different concept, despite what the name implies.

Yeah, my line of thinking was that the Abyss where the Idea of Evil resides could have been an "overlapping" between the Astral World and World of Ideas, similar to how the Physical and Astral Worlds can overlap with the Interstice and Road of Elves.

The Interstice is where the two worlds overlap. The road of elves is more like a temporary gateway to the shallow layers of the Astral World. Either way, both are possible for the World of Ideas, but we just don't know whether that's the case.

Magic-users know of its existence, but it's unknown if they are able to interact with it in any way, and if so what limitations they have in that regard.

From what Flora says in volume 24, there is a depth beyond which magic users cannot return from the Astral World. That means they cannot interact with the World of Ideas, since it lies deeper than anything else.

But then the question arises of how they even know about its existence in the first place.

Maybe the same way physicists know about events that occurred billions of years ago, millions of light-years away. :slan:

When you say it's above their pay grade, do you mean that they aren't significant enough to have any sort of ability to interact with the World of Ideas? And when you say the Idea of Evil is the one who is pulling the strings, do you mean to say that only it would be capable of accomplishing anything involving the World of Ideas?

I mean that the members of the God Hand were chosen and empowered by the Idea of Evil, and that they serve its designs through the accomplishment of their own desires. And so indeed, I don't think it's accurate to portray them as having a plan of their own involving the World of Ideas as opposed to them executing such a plan as laid out by their master, the Idea of Evil.

Aren't the God Hand the ones who are physically executing its will

They are its servants, although aside from Femto, they didn't have a physical form last time we saw them. But the apostles do.

For a followup question, I was wondering if you believe the World of Ideas will be elaborated upon or play a part in the story in the future, and if so do you have any predictions or speculations about what that part will be?

Hard to say. I think the World of Ideas will come up again at some point in the story. I don't think it's going to play a huge part however, nor that we will learn everything there is to know about it.

I have heard some speculate that the God Hand would want to further transform the world by "merging" the World of Ideas with Fantasia. Maybe this would be the "perfect world" that the Egg Apostle desired to create by birthing Griffith's new vessel. Do you have any thoughts on that?

I don't think the God Hand wants to merge Fantasia with the World of Ideas, and the Beherit Apostle referred to his own little world, so I don't think that connection makes sense.

Speculation Nation / Re: How much do we know about the World of Ideas?
« on: February 11, 2018, 06:35:20 PM »
You ask how much do we know about the World of Ideas, and the answer is: not much at all.
There's this one passing reference to it in volume 24 and that's about it. The rest is conjecture or deduction, mostly informed by episode 83 (which isn't canon).

I know the concept is derived from Plato's theory of forms

I like its traditional name better: theory of Ideas. :slan:

Schierke refers to it as "the soul of the origin of all existence."

This is a bad translation. What she calls it is "the spirit that is the source of existence". Because it's in Japanese, there can be variations, for example "spirit" and "soul" are both correct, and "source" and "origin" are also both appropriate. Existence could also be replaced by "beings". However Miura does go out of his way to use words that relate to water for these things, hence why "source" is preferable here. Of note is that in the name "Idea of Evil", the kanji for "Idea" has the same meaning: source/origin. And since we're at it, I can't help but remind those who don't know that "idea" in this context is a Greek word and pronounced the Greek way: ee-deh-ah.

Does this mean that all things/concepts/objects in the Physical and Astral Worlds are just derived from their original forms in the World of Ideas?

Something like that. There are no doubt variations compared to Plato's theory, and possibly major ones. What we do know is that there is a great ocean of souls that lies at the very bottom of the Astral World. That ocean is divided according to karma. The part with the bad karma is what gave birth to the Idea of Evil, and it's where the Abyss is located.

Does the Idea of Evil reside in the Abyss or the World of Ideas, or do the two overlap?

The Idea of Evil resides in the Abyss. And I think it's safe to say that the Idea of Evil is part of the World of Ideas. However, how that works is currently unknown and tricky to get into. Is the great ocean of souls part of the World of Ideas? Is it its surface or a gateway to it? Or is it the World of Ideas itself in its entirety? We don't know. We also don't know really the details of how the World of Ideas relates to the Astral and Corporeal worlds.

Is it possible the World of Ideas will tie into the God Hand's plan in some way?

I think it's above their pay grade. The one pulling the strings is the Idea of Evil.

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