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Messages - Griffith

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76
Shootin' the Breeze / Re: Adventures in YouTube
« on: September 12, 2017, 05:46:03 AM »
https://youtu.be/rmRouEds_2A

The is about the best argument for Star Wars over Star Trek I've ever heard, clearly delivered without cue cards and at least partly improvised, besides, "it's more visceral," which pretty much amounts to the same. Also, it's the only time I recall a genuine compliment from Conan and a peek at their true rapport.

77
Movies, TV, Books & Music / Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« on: September 11, 2017, 07:49:00 PM »
Yeah, very refreshing to read an interpretation that actually tries to solve the mystery, and I don't know how he managed to put that together so cohesively this quickly.

Thanks, pretty good articles, the AV Club one got me kinda :judo:.

I defended the "happy" scenes throughout the show as sincere, but as I said earlier, I had trouble believing this also applied to the goofy battle against BOB. It was too insane for me to take as anything other than at least some kind of dream, and Cooper's superimposed face showing up appeared to confirm it. But when I read the guy in the AV Club article saying "meta" isn't in Lynch's vocabulary, it reminded me of a thing from an old article I read earlier this year:

Quote from: https://www.theguardian.com/film/2007/feb/24/davidlynch

Yeah, based on the unorthidox yet authentic feelings, or at least unorthidox shades or gradients of authentic feeling, Lynch taps into I can totally buy that everything he's presenting, as far as everyone on screen is feeling, good and bad, is presented in good faith. Basically, he's laughing/crying with the characters and with us, not at them/us. He's made several statements to that effect including the opening of The Return where everyone assumed he was outright mocking appointment/prestige TV with The Experiment, which is still a fantastic interpretation BTW, but he claims it was another happy accident and not a statement he was going out of his way to make.

Griffith , Walter :

...If you both recall Cooper warned Laura while in the Red Room in FWWM not to take the Owl/Infinity Ring as I believe he knew it's what binds her to an endless loop a loop he becomes the last piece of by trying to save her . So if we're talking about an endless cycle that explains why Cooper is so old in The Red Room in s1ep3 as he would be in his 6th cycle.

I don't get that, maybe because I'm stuck in my pre-S3 interpretations, not that I held them long, or not thinking about it enough, but my understanding was the ring prevented her from being possessed by BOB so he killed her (and seems to bind, at least most, people to the Lodge upon death). Is that the cycle you're talking about, because if we're talking the "Möbius-strip" interpretation, on it's face wasn't that actually more a consequence caused by Cooper's intervention? Feel free to explain why I'm just not getting it, because any more explanation is welcome.

Two albums from the show are out today:

Score: https://rhino.lnk.to/TPSMP
Songs (mostly the Roadhouse performances): http://a.co/hmSSq6r

I've been listening to a lot of the Season 1, 2, and FWWM (THE BLACK DOG RUNS AT NIGHT) soundtracks lately, particularly for inspiration while working on The Faces of Cooper photoshop, first straight through a few times and then on shuffle. I was surprised and disappointed these weren't already available but now look forward to adding them to the playlist!

Update: Oh shit, it's got ZZ Top on it! :isidro:



By my calculations he's cranking the volume past 11 to at least 16, if not 17! :ganishka:

78
Current Episodes / Re: Episode 346
« on: September 09, 2017, 07:50:25 AM »
My first thought (which I still hold) is that he decided to style them after the original "Puck Knight" picture, just for the reference.

Agreed, it's a pretty iconic shot of Puck from its time, so it's a nice and natural callback to make.

79
Creation Station / Re: Griff's Colors
« on: September 09, 2017, 06:22:56 AM »
Threw this idea about the many faces of Cooper together as a gag after the end of Twin Peaks: The Return *SPOILERS*, but then went back and kind of spruced it up enough to be an avatar and toss it in here (there's still a few things that could be better, so I may add or improve more details, but in that case I'll just stealth reupload):


The idea is based on the many sides of Cooper we see over the course of Twin Peaks ala the five faces of Shiva in Hindu art. Here's the base source image, preferred for its Peaky background as well as the viability to more easily photoshop Coopers on it. From left to right: Cooper as "Dougie Jones," the Dougie Jones Tupla, Special Agent Dale Cooper, Richard, and Mr. C the evil Cooper doppelganger. Additions to the rest of the image include Laura Palmer superimposed above them (I should have superimposed a giant image of Cooper's face over the whole thing =), the key to Coop's room at the Great Northern in his lap as he sits on blue "rose" petals on top of a skinned owl, and he holds in his hands a golden shovel, a slice of cherry pie, the log, and no doubt a cup of damn fine coffee. He's also wearing a ring you might recognize.

80
Current Episodes / Re: Episode 346
« on: September 09, 2017, 05:37:49 AM »
Yep, either that initial image was based on canon Elf Knight lore or it's the life in the art imitating the art in the art. My favorite possibility though is Miura just had the same idea twice independently when it came to designing the armor of the Elvin guards. More likely he just couldn't get it out of his head because it's pretty neat, and of course he uses similarly styled "armor" in Gigantomakhia.

81
Video Games / Re: What Are You Playing?
« on: September 08, 2017, 09:18:07 PM »
Trying and failing to kick my Breath of the Wild addiction, with my Master Sword upgraded I can make mince meat of Golden Lynels, but I wont be satisfied until I can kill Vaati, Majora, Zant, Ghirahim, Ganon, Demise, Aghanim and Bellum in a single sword stroke.
So confused... are those all in the game?

I tried looking that up and couldn't find anything. That'd be a hell of a DLC. =)

82
Movies, TV, Books & Music / Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« on: September 08, 2017, 07:21:58 AM »
No doubt. I always thought the Giant sounded... disappointed? And yeah it's kinda hilarious for the guy to interrupt a concert to tell him he sucks as a detective. :ganishka:

His tone borders on betrayed, but he could have been more straightforward sooner, still...



"What does it all mean?! :???:"

And I have no idea why this popped up in the image search but here you go:



Effects test for season 4 of Twin Peaks: The Explanation starring Annie & Audrey

Really enjoyed reading this take, even if some things here and there don't really fit completely: http://www.waggish.org/2017/twin-peaks-finale/

Damn fine read, and like you said you don't have to agree with all the details or conclusions but at least it lays out a logical framework of the facts to work with, and you can't reject it for being too zany because the logic of the lodges is. Anyway, that's the best postmortem I've read, not that the competition is great ("it's about the show and ending and stuff!"); these are about the only other two I liked, but they focused more on what Lynch was saying rather than what was technically happening, echoing your conversation with Nightcrawler that I didn't feel quite comfortable wading into (the second article in particular touches on a lot of the same themes you debated with Nighty and obviously comes away with a more positive interpretation):

https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/9/3/16250822/twin-peaks-finale-recap-part-17-18-the-return

http://www.avclub.com/twin-peaks-gave-us-a-moving-meditation-on-death-1800661325


Oh, and I looked up the first episode of Dumbland. :ganishka:

I forgot to mention: "See you at the curtain call" was one of the coolest goodbye lines ever. Though somewhat downgraded by them being reunited next to an actual curtain.

Speaking of bad articles, there's paid writers out there poetically lamenting that "there'll never be that curtain call" without mentioning the fact Coop and Diane literally reunite next to a giant red stage curtain! Anyway, there's theories about the chronology of the episode being all mixed up (what else is new?) and that Coop and Diane are somehow reuniting in episode 17 AFTER the events of 18, explaining why they're so happy (they were both trapped and haven't spoken in decades?), why they kiss so passionately and she's not at all put off by the face of her rapist (uh, the real Coop's kiss is right? Ok, that one is weird), and why Coop's face superimposes over the screen dreamsplaining, but it all doesn't quite follow, particularly their path back there or lack thereof.

83
Movies, TV, Books & Music / Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« on: September 06, 2017, 05:01:20 PM »
Yeah there's absolutely a more verite look to those scenes. I mean, we watched Agent Cooper filling his gas at Valero. But also, it had a kind of odd violent wild west vibe with the shootout and the rotting body, so yeah, realistic and surreal sounds right. Extremely weird.

It was almost like a cartoon character being transported into the real world. Coop was still relatively good, heroic and competent, but it wasn't squeaky clean and he didn't have the same perfect composure (I mean, he pointed that gun at the waitress too =). I wouldn't go as far as Nighty and say he lost his humanity, actually I think you could argue he became more human for his relative flaws, not less, but he definitely lost his innocence in a way we didn't even see in the black lodge. MacLachlan described his direction for Richard as a bit "harder" than the normal Coop and I really appreciate his performance in this episode, the tone of his "what" in response to the cowboy is right out of the Mr. C playbook and I think about the closest you'll hear to the real Coop egging someone on. So, in its own strange way this felt like a new start and the most real and in depth we've ever gone with Coop (and I wondered how he was going to fit into the new show once reestablished), like we were meeting a real Agent Cooper for the first time after we got the platonic ideal again in episode 16. Of course, you should never meet your heroes.

The motel was also a different one when he wakes up.

Well, of course I missed THAT. :schierke:

It definitely looked like Coop and Diane were following some kind of script to change the reality even then. "Turn the lights off. You come here to me." Like it was some kind of ritual they had to perform correctly. The sex scene being no exception.

They're performing the ritual of a prestige television show! They needed to have a gratuitous sex scene in order to advance time to a future point, then Coop needed to have a hard-boiled confrontation that really puts him over with us and only then can he find Laura and go back to Twin Peaks. Except that doesn't work either, Laura's not Laura, Twin Peaks just looks like any empty streets at night, and Laura's house has real people living in it. Maybe Lynch was hoping that at some point this ritual would conjure  Judy or the experiment in our televisions so it could break out and slaughter us. Now that would have been an ending (I think even if Lynch had pulled a cheesy jump scare like that I'd have still had a coronary or shat my pants =)!

Yeah, if after Inland Empire his next project ended with the super glove defeating the evil ball in earnest and Candie being glad she brought so many sandwiches for the wrap party, I dunno what I would have thought.

My guess as to your reaction in that case: "Still the Best Show Ever!" :carcus: But yeah, this is definitely a revelation and significant work after a decade of relative inactivity. Vintage Lynch whether you think its among his best work or not.

That was kind of a foreboding music choice though, wasn't it? Last time we heard it, was in the "it is happening again" scene.

Good call on the relative timing (when Laura herself should have been getting murdered), but it's also just more classic Peaks because that Julie Cruise music is all over the original soundtrack. BTW, also good time to note Coop was never above screwing up as the Giant is literally waving his arms at him and telling him the killer is striking again while he's just like "HUH?" It was hilariously about the least subtle or confusing message delivered on the show.

I don't have any big take and i'm trying hard not to geek out over all the theories, i just wanted to say i found the whole experience rather cold and sterile.

Awww, I hope it didn't all feel to you like episodes 12 and 13 to me, because that's where it obviously lost me, and others, for a bit. Also, not to accuse you of contrarianism (never =), but I think it'd be easier to note the show's virtues rather than its flaws if all the critics weren't climbing over each other to be the loudest to declare it the greatest thing ever without really explaining why they think so (a fair thing to reject if you feel it falls short). Maybe the show just wholly didn't do it for you and you weren't paying any attention to the hype, but it worked for me despite the fact I saw a bunch of pub blowing it and saying it's a whole "new proactive paradigm" for television... in ways that will be explained another time. Not that my critical take is much better, basically describing it a series of offbeat stimuli that makes me feel some unfamiliar sensations that I ultimately like experiencing (put that on the back if the blu-ray).

The lack of music made a big difference, Lynch's sound design is serviceable, but it's only half of the dream-like state his films induce. It seems Badalamenti was only credited but didn't add anything new. A shame, for the lack of a proper score gave me a sense of detachment and a lack of vibrancy i get when i watch his stuff.

I can see, er hear, what you mean. The music was very subdued most of the time, to the point that my wife and I would have subtitles on and notice it saying [ambient music] and that was basically our only indication that the barely audible droning tone was providing any bed of music to a scene. I thought this was largely intentional though for contrast with the tone of the original (and particularly the town of Twin Peaks itself, which stood out like a sore thumb to the rest of the world, but I think that proved purposeful too), and that the big musical moments, particularly the return of iconic Twin Peaks scores, were being used judiciously to punctuate those moments. I otherwise thought the sound was pretty excellent at conveying the feel of the story, even if it was a less is more approach overall. 

The bad digital effects expanded on the absence of emotion for me.

I agreed with your assessment of the effects in the early episodes and objectively found them hit or miss throughout, but by the time we reached Diane's first farewell it was clearly part of the aesthetic experience, not a hurdle to it.

I felt completely uncaring for most of the events until part 18 hit me several hours later.

It hit definitely hit though, and judging from your assessment below it doesn't sound like it's making you feel nothing anymore. I guess I had a better experience throughout, I definitely felt a lot of interesting feelings watching, albeit sometimes exasperation, but it was definitely a worthwhile viewing experience that made me consider the way media makes me feel, why, and why don't more shows make me feel these different sort of untapped emotions watching or seemingly even try? I think everything that came before definitely sets up the way the ending leaves you feeling as well. It was ultimately still the journey, but a different sort, more insular despite the explicit, and perhaps extraneous, lore and theories, with different narrative priorities, milestones, and goals, or lack thereof, than we're used to.

If FWWM had some form of redemption at the end, this season had none. No heart or soul (Dougie was the closest to it), and the bleakest ending possible. A lost Coop, losing his humanity while realizing that Laura can't be saved, no matter how much the world has changed, suffering is perpetual.

Hey man, death is change and happiness is but an illusion... or dream (and I hope this cheers you up a bit despite the crude effects =).



No one screams like Sheryl Lee.

Indeed, make room in the Scream Queen Hall of Fame Fay Wray and Jamie Lee Curtis. Good lord I had to have the volume control handy after like the 2nd scream, she still got me at the end.


Anyway, again, no surprises (except I wasn't so sure what to rate it right after =):


84
Current Episodes / Re: Episode 351
« on: September 06, 2017, 02:36:38 AM »
That would be November 26, 1988: http://berserk.fan.coocan.jp/archive_ah.html#comicomi

Ah, cool! I'll keepthat date in mind.

Quote
I think you might be able to call that "Guts' Debut" or something, but that's not really "Berserk"  :void:

"Guts' debut," I like that, now is that his first full appearance or cameo appearance? =) But yeah, it's an interesting distiction because while the prototype is certainly the concept, traditionally things like this are judged by official release date rather than conception, writing, recording, etc.

85
Current Episodes / Re: Episode 351
« on: September 06, 2017, 02:08:49 AM »
Not to complicate matters further (well, a little)... but what about the 1988 prototype? It's technically not the first issue of course, which is its own milestone, but for the anniversay of "Berserk" itself it's still Berserk in its earliest tangeable form practically speaking (think of it like a band demo that leads to the first album =). So, the de facto 30th anniversary is arguably just next year. Any idea what date Miura "released" or presented it?

86
Movies, TV, Books & Music / Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« on: September 05, 2017, 05:49:48 AM »
I finished watching them again this morning and repeated the last 15 minutes or so a couple times more and am struck by how neatly separated the two final episodes are in a way. Episode 17 is practically an ideal ending in every way as Eluvei points out, that is until Laura vanishes into screaming air, which follows the current, if there is such a thing, Sarah Palmer destroying her picture (perhaps implying causation). It totally could have ended there to similar effect but 18 basically resets with Coop from there in the lodge where a lot of important information is reviewed before he finally departs the way he originally came (this might as well directly follow the season 2 finale =), where Diane is waiting for him (the curtain call). Then it becomes that strange odyssey to "find Laura," like a new beginning or a self-contained Laura-centric follow up ala FWWM. It's also both the most surreal and realistic part of the series tone-wise, surreal to the norm of Twin Peaks anyway, because here Coop is acting more like a normal man, or even Mr. C, than his usual paragon throughout (also, not that it matters, but he only picks up 2 of the 3 cowboys guns yet disposes of all 3 =). Another detail I'm fascinated by is the car Cooper and Diane are in, they clearly start out in a vintage model but the next day Coop leaves in a far more contemporary looking vehicle ("What year is this?"). I'm not really driving at anything new here, just collecting observations and thoughts. Then of course he finds "Laura" or whatever equivalent Carrie Page is and tries to tie it altogether with Sarah at the Palmer house and YMMV at his success (for what it's worth the actor playing the Chalfont/Tremond woman is the real life homeowner). It seems to me that 17 is the big heroic finish to make everything perfect, and 18 is the fucked up aftermath of something so dangerously ambitious, basically screwing things up worse than Bob or Mr. C could ever imagine. At least that's one way to see it, after all we don't know what happens after unless that really is the Sopranos ending except Cooper and Laura just assassinated the universe (there was nothing more to see =). Otherwise, despite the extended travel log aspects and narrative blue balls following the final scene it was all pretty fucking eventful; Cooper successfully brought Laura back to life and to her house through space, time, and multiple dimensions and yet to a more haunting end, so rather than leaving us wanting it might be considered pretty fucking above and beyond considering it could have just ended pat in Episode 17 before slinking away to Julie Cruise's reprise of, "The World Spins.” This also, in real time watching last night no less, reminded me a bit of the ending(s) to The Dark Tower *spoiler alert*, of which there's at least 3, one that's just the facts, Roland overcomes the over-the-top final obstacle and enters the tower, a ridiculous mega happy ending for all his friends, and a disclaimer begging you not to read further that precedes the real, not-so-satisfying, ending. =)

87
Movies, TV, Books & Music / Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« on: September 04, 2017, 03:21:12 PM »
https://twitter.com/Seinfeld2000/status/904568942877843456

 :ganishka:

I'm rewatching 17 and 18 this morning and getting all those details again i forgot to write about like Brigg's disembodied head, Evil Coop cage, Andy's picnic basket, superimposed Coop head saying we live in a dream, and we haven't even gone to February 23rd, 1989, where Cooper was tofind Judy.

88
Movies, TV, Books & Music / Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« on: September 04, 2017, 06:49:18 AM »
My own running thoughts before I read any of yours:

I wasn't too surprised by much in the first hour, I expected Evil Cooper and the "plotty" stuff to be dispatched and dispensed with quickly (good thing hulk fist was there to kill Bob, RIP, I can't help but view this as a parody of a traditional resolution =), I didn't really expect any more clear lore answers or understanding than we already had (I was actually a bit a afraid anything so explicit would be a disappointment), and I hoped for things to come back around to Laura and Sarah Palmer (which it did, almost, with some heavy duty Judy implications). Cooper saving Laura and BTTFing the show's premise out existence was certainly "mind blowing," though I think just having the real Coop meeting the real Laura back in her time was more genuinely breathtaking. As a storytelling device it's not extraordinary though, not normal or anything, but it's not unlike things we've seen in recent years on GoT and plenty more elsewhere in this "genre." The second half is where things get interesting, and weird, and boring, and confusing, and funny, and sad and eureka, and done. I don't know if this is accurate, but in the moment I found myself appreciating the idea that Dale completely screwed up and failed and we weren't going to see the big final confrontation/reunion of momentous importance, or, to be more kind, things just didn't work out! Or did they? I think it's a natural reaction to feel left wanting. To think, "THAT'S IT!?" That's kind of the feeling you're initially left with, right? I was reminded of The Sopranos finale, like maybe my cable box or, in this case, the Internet went down. It's at least the last time I remember staring at a black screen having it dawn on me that it was over but hoping for the next image, except this time it was just an image of Dale Cooper behind the credits rolling getting some bad news, his face mirroring my own. But, it was basically confirmed that it is Laura, that she remembers herself and recognizes the house, and that the house and everything associated with it responds accordingly. Is that enough, does it matter we don't get the big payoff setup with Laura, her mother and/or Judy, do we need the magic fist of destiny to punch the ball o' bad 'til its head esplodes, or is it better this way? Or is it a copout because while we're all weirded out, cutoff and denied just at the moment of truth, and left asking what it all means, it's because no meaning was actually provided, but a trick for us to endlessly perceive it? Anticipation as payoff.


I think I'm still in shock, but my main thought at the moment is that I like how Lynch and Frost took the one indisputable"fact" of the show, Laura's death, and turned it on its head.

Yes and no, we've seen that trick before (like in Ash vs. Evil Dead), so I really wanted to see what they did to justify "going home again" this way.

there's no doubt that there are a few easily-missed details that may help explain what we just witnessed.

I especially like Laura Palmer's decor.

What do folks think about a potential fourth season at this point? I feel like it could go either way. There was no doubt from the beginning that Lynch and Frost had no intention of answering every lingering question from the original run, but I feel like a lot of new characters and ideas were introduced without much of an idea of what they were intended to communicate. What was the deal with the drug addicted lady saying "119?" What about Bob's "Mother"? Who was the friend of the Fireman who held Laura's orb and gave it a good luck kiss? And what in the hell ever happened to Billy?! :ganishka:

Ultimately, I enjoyed the ride, but I'm still raring for more. Time to pre-order my copy of the Final Dossier. :casca:

You're certainly more game than I at the moment, just the fact that everything you mentioned was left as is, along with half the unanswered questions from the original run, only tells me that subsequent series won't be answering those questions either but only generating more they won't answer. I'm not saying that's a bad thing or that it should be the point, just that it doesn't seem to be the point. I think I prefer this ending at the moment, as interesting as it would be to watch them pick it up from here and work through it only to end up somewhere similar.

Shock is a good word for it.

I don't even know where to begin. When you start messing not only with time, but also pocket dimensions, AND David Lynch is at the helm, I'm not exactly sure how anyone is expected to follow along. I'll just lay out where my head is at the moment.

Interesting explanations of things, I try to just go with the flow and not think of it too technically, just "Coop saves Laura so Laura is alive for Coop to find." The dimensions or timelines are whatever they are, and pretty much impossible to know for sure as you say. It occurred to me that Laura could have been returned from that time in her own version of being "Dougie Jones."

And Coop probably wasn't supposed to take Laura back to her home. Chalfont/Tremond is of course, the name of the old woman and her grandson, who also owned the property where Chester Desmond disappeared from.

Son. Of. A. Bitch. I knew those names were familiar but didn't catch it, still...

The powerline was also a Black Lodge giveaway. Perhaps the house was a kind of trap, set there in case something like this happened. Then the trap sprung upon Laura's appearance (and the apparent appearance of Sarah/Mother). Just before Laura screams, you can hear Sarah's moaning (from the scene at the end of ep 17).

This was the sense I was getting during the scene, or the sense my mind was trying to make of it; this is BS, some sort of security measure to keep them out, etc and more or less confirmed by Laura's awakening and scream.

I love/hate how Lynch bothers to bring back Twin Peaks ostensibly to tie up loose ends after the abrupt ending, only to leave us with another one with even MORE loose ends. :ganishka:  :judo:

Yep, but are you itching for another season making even less sense with even more loose ends to explain these!? In a few more seasons it will just be an incomprehensible set of moving shapes and sounds.

That ending though, holy shit. Gonna stay with me.
Yeah, holy shit. What a ride. I feel very weird right now.

Agreed and clearly that was the intention. Perpetual anticipation, perpetual payoff, no disappointment...? I need to re-watch it more closely (I'm still replaying it in my head though), but a snarky, reductive part of me can't help but think, "It was the Sopranos ending, right down to the blackout." =)

Fairly sure it's Sarah calling Laura in the pilot episode when she notices she's not coming down to go to school. It's also heard when Coop has his dream of the Red Room two episodes after that. Wow, that sounded pedantic as hell, I'm sorry.

Don't be, that's a good catch (you can totally hear "Laura"), and what did you think besides feeling weird (is that dissonance over whether it was good or not, how good, or is that representative of the goodness itself =)? You had to be worried in the beginning when it was going full FBI chalk, but then it only got progressively less traditional as it went along with plenty of the sort of weird moments you enjoy along the way. BTW, I can't believe I'm the first person to mention Diane, or who or whatever she ended up being. You want pedantic? I swear her hair changed color to a more pink, as opposed to orangey, red after we saw the other Diane outside the hotel lobby and this signaled that she'd been changed/replaced by a tulpa. No idea if there's anything to this but it made me feel bad for her & Coop.

Oh, and we could have known this line would sum everything up, "WHAT THE HELL JUST HAPPENED!?" Upon review I also couldn't help but take Cooper's final line, "What year is this?" as a commentary on trying to "come home again" like they were literally but also with this endeavor as a whole.

89
Movies, TV, Books & Music / Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« on: September 03, 2017, 08:35:29 PM »
I love how Evil Coop still talks in that unnatural, robotic manner, especially when talking to regular honest folk. When he explains how he hit his head on the mirror, it's exactly like how he explains to Gordon how he hit his car and was arrested.

That was the biggest takeaway from the movie for me too, because there wasn't much connective tissue between season 3's stone cold Evil Coop and the manically evil Cooper doppelganger we see in the lodge or smashing his face in the mirror (not that he couldn't evolve), but that scene was it. I was blown away when he started talking in Evil Coop's now signature monotone. I wonder if MacLachlan and Lynch always remembered that or were reminded by the Missing Pieces project.

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A guy sent me something interesting he found on Reddit. Some dude in a Twin Peaks convention sort of found out why this is the best show:

Well, as much as that sounds like an effort by Lynch fans to give him 100% of the credit when he already deservedly gets most of it, it does track with the way the season played out, particularly the indulgences of the second half ("I, er, Gordon needs a 15 minute escourt scene!"). I'm calling BS that he spread it around evenly though when he literally doubled the size of the material; more like what we saw is what happened and he ditched the first half's more structured plotting for a while in the second half to go joy riding, occasionally checking in until it was time to come home. =) I also want to give Frost credit for grounding things just enough to otherwise keep it from completely going off the rails, but I don't really know their working dymamic. Anyway, knowing this makes me appreciate the extras in the series all the more, while also confirming the feeling it didn't need to be so long, but why not?

90
Movies, TV, Books & Music / Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« on: September 03, 2017, 05:25:58 AM »
I only noticed you were making fun of me because you mentioned Heidi. I really love all of those.  :ganishka:

 :ganishka:

That's why I had to include a tell, I couldn't be sure I wasn't just stating the facts. =)

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I'm a little disappointed there were more Sarah Palmer scenes after her first one, to be completely honest. I would have found it more powerful if the only time we saw her, was when she's watching that documentary, just so we get a glimpse at how these types of tragedies destroy someone. I did like some of her other scenes a lot, especially the one with Hawk. I try not to think too hard about shit that will obviously be explored in later episodes like what she did at the bar (I don't read Reddit or anything like that, so I dunno what the fan consensus is on that, if there is one) but so far that kinda bummed me out too, I didn't want that character, which I always found incredibly tragic, to have some more plot tied into her.

I can understand that, and hopefully they make it worthwhile and she isn't just cast aside or turned into some monster. Since she seems to be one though maybe she was also the "mother" trying to break through the door way back in Part 3. Would that mean Naido,
the eyeless woman, could be Laura Palmer instead of Diane (or something else entirely)? There's your dose of useless speculation.


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I think you nailed it. And for some reason, I'm finding the jokes too telegraphed this season. Not sure if it was always like this and I just fell out of love with it, or what.

I think it's another symptom of them being way up in their own heads, like how many times has Rick commented on something being hacky this season? WE GET IT!


Update: Check out this ridiculousness...

Twin Peaks Action Figures

They look pretty good though! And good choices too, though I would have preferred a live Laura Palmer of some sort, maybe the dream/Black Lodge version if they're all supposed to be contemporary, and maybe Audrey or Leland should have got the nod over Log Lady (but that's very plot heavy and she is the perfect representative for the rest of Twin Peaks). Btw, if you look at the related items they also have those stupid Funko POP figures of all the aforementioned characters. There's something not right about such a cute BOB figure.



Update 2: Finally watched The Missing Pieces today, so I'm now "100%" going into the finale. It wasn't a bad or incoherent watch for being a compilation of deleted scenes (the best this side of Wake Up, Ron Burgundy at least =), but then you have to be familiar with everything else for it to work so I can understand what a treat it was for fans to get all those tidbits on the characters, especially the added material on Jeffries and Cooper if you're a plot/lore focused fellow like myself (I can see why the cut the Cooper ending to the margins of Laura's diary to keep the focus on that time, but it was damn fine to get a bit more, and really is essential for understanding things like the ring's chain of custody). Anyway, glad I was able to see it before the finale (but do I have to read the books too? =) I also reviewed Cooper's revival and Audrey's dance. Man, I could have used more 100% Cooper; or at least 90%, like have him be himself but without the memories of who he was and watch him be the best damn Dougie Jones possible for a few episodes; that would have been an interesting alternative with plenty of potential, made his final reawakening a little less jarring for those around him, and his necessary departure even more heartbreaking for them all, including Coop. Anyway, I can't wait to see what the big bad owl god under the moon in the black fire is all about, so I hope we find out! Whether it's Bob's creator, Sarah Palmer, the creature in experiment, or all or none of the above. ^♦^


And if you're not psyched enough going in, check out these awesome comic pop art posters commemorating every week. Parts 1, 8, and 16 are naturally standouts, I'm also partial to 5, 6, 12, 14 (Inoue-esque), and 15, but they're all pretty cool:

http://welcometotwinpeaks.com/inspiration/twin-peaks-posters-18-parts-crisvector/

91
Movies, TV, Books & Music / Re: Game of Thrones TV [spoilers]
« on: August 31, 2017, 02:59:01 PM »
Yes, yes I meant Balon. (My bad, but they still introduced him way later in the series vs the book) I still prefer his personnality in the book though.

Well, they sure didn't do much with him on the show other than make him a stupid jerk that Theon listens to because... family? I swear, if I had Ned Stark as a father figure my whole life I wouldn't be looking to this guy to fill his shoes, "Did you pay the iron price for that!?" "You mean being a belligerent loser nobody can trust or like? No, in fact I did NOT." BTW, Theon's big moment of triumph sure was stupid and reductive, even for these guys (the ADVANTAGE of having no cock n' balls, huzzah!), and would have been better coming at just about any other opportunity he had to rise to the occasion. Frankly, I thought and was hoping he'd just be beaten to death there, impotently trying to help his sister but just being unable. THAT would have been a fitting end, but they went the predictable yet improbable route again. Also, those guys were basically going to go rape, pillage and live the good life but decide instead to basically march to their certain death over the result of a street fight? No wonder they're the worst culture in Westeros.

Thing is, in the book we still "don't know" that Jon has Targaryen blood (wich in my opinion is the only thing that matters). And learning that the babe was never killed and is doing well and all was the big punch line. Now it doesn't mean that Aegon his gonna be the one sitting on the throne in the end though. I like the idea of a bastard rising anyway, but the lther thing is we still don't know if Martin is gonna revive Jon or keep him dead or switch him in Ghost as the prologue for book 5 was specifically talking about that kind of possibilty.

It be something though to learn that the Aegon in the book is just a ploy to take the throne for then reveal that it was Jon the real deal and put him on the throne, but I doubt that. They would not have gone into exile in Essos and leave the real one in a dangerous spot without having anyone knowing it. It would have been to risky for them to lose him. I guess we'll know in a few years when the Winds of winter will be out. ( saying years here because we know fuck all when it's gonna be out)

That all makes sense, though normally logic would dictate that if Aegon were really going to be significant he'd be included in the show, but given the decision making of the showrunners recently it's hard to take their opinion at face value. I also feel like Martin might just change up a bunch of shit now out of spite. "Turns out Jon Snow IS dead, they burned his body, and R+L=FU!" :daiba:

I just think they fused that plot together in the tv series just because Jon is a big character and they wanted to make him more then a bastard when he was already more than a regular bastard. I was well satisfied with just knowing he was a Starkgaryen... :ganishka:

Yeah, as we've said, it is a bit strange that they're basically stripping Jon of his noble everyman status, one who rose by his own deeds, and likely turning him instead into a reluctant prince of destiny. It just completely changes the meaning of "the cream rising to the top" where he's concerned.

92
Movies, TV, Books & Music / Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« on: August 31, 2017, 05:10:48 AM »
Shit, now I'm worried. :azan:



This laughing gif is self-defeating though because, c'mon, you know there's going to be at least something like this in there. As a matter of fact... https://m.imgur.com/a/6XJCG

Yeah, no worries.

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This is gonna be a piping hot take, but

This aught to be good... :zodd:

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I don't really like Ontkean. Even in Slap Shot he looks absolutely disinterested and bored out of his mind. I'm not surprised at all he's retired and doesn't give a shit about this show, because that's what his face was telling me when he was "reacting" (I use the term liberally) to Coop or having a moment with Josie. I don't miss him at all.

I dont disagree with your assessment per se, but I thought his faux-affable stiffness was part of the charm (figured he'd be up your alley, but I guess he's too straightforward and not bad enough to be interesting or good bad). He's also Coop's sidekick and foil, it's really the team chemistry and Coop's comradery I'll miss (though we already got a bit of that back with Bushnell and the Mitchums).

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But yeah, Frank isn't the best idea, even if his Skype session is one of my favorite scenes this season. I'd much prefer Hawk being the sheriff or whatever.

Some of Eluvei's other favorite scenes: Jacoby painting shovels, sweeping man, Candie being slow, Sarah Palmer watching TV, Steven inaubly mumbling. Why don't you just admit you secretly hate Cooper too and your real reason for watching the show is Heidi and her laugh! I'm onto you.

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I've put this in spoiler tags so that at least a handful of people won't try to shoot me, not because it's a spoiler.[/spoiler]

Good call, I've followed suit and tagged my replies as well, just in case.

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Man, I'm totally not on board with Rick and Morty this year. I think I only liked the pilot so far.

I disagree on an episode by episode basis, but I can understand this for the season as a whole (though your objections might be different, YMMV, etc). It's been too much of a normally good thing, like every episode is some deep, dark exploration and deconstruction of the characters, until literally becoming so in the most recent episode, but you can't do that every time out. A little of that goes a long way, like a few big emotional moments or payoffs per season, but it's kind of taking over the show to the point the adventures themselves are suffering and its ironically becoming flat and repetitive with depth. In any case, with the time they took to write it and these results I think they're trying too hard and won't be able to sustain it. The show is still relatively fresh and in it's prime and I feel like they could dial back the quality/quantity ratio a bit and put out more great episodes before they burn out trying to make every one more significant than the last (this is what happened to Gn'R on the Use Your Illusions albums =). I never thought I'd say this but we need an Interdimensional Cable episode (that somehow doesn't devolve into self-loathing).

93
Movies, TV, Books & Music / Re: Game of Thrones TV [spoilers]
« on: August 31, 2017, 02:06:29 AM »
You mean Balon, not Euron, right, because I thought he's still alive and very much looking like the big bad (how crazy would it be if they screw up Azor Ahai AND the Night King? =)

Anyway, I know Aegon's a separate character in the books, I just thought there was some question to his legitimacy and them cutting/combining him with Jon at least suggests he's not supposed to amount to much in the end. Of course, if he was going to die, there'd be no need to combine a legitimate Targaryen plot into Jon's character unless he's supposed to be legitimate in the books too. But I'm also totally willing to believe they just fucked up and cut out an important claimant to throne/end game character so they half-assed grafted him onto Jon because nothing makes sense anymore. If only they had, say, 7 more hours to estabish such a character! But they were too lazy to even put in the work required to properly break the story they already established. That's what the 7/6 episodes really signifies: the bare minimum.

94
Movies, TV, Books & Music / Re: Game of Thrones TV [spoilers]
« on: August 30, 2017, 11:35:13 PM »
I live in the north, I'll remember. (Get it? )



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Ahem, anyway, to answer your question to my previous post about my disliking the big reveal about Jon. I just think they should have left him a bastard. I felt the marrying Lyanna officialy part just to make Jon a real Targaryan and not a high bastard plain suck.

Agreed, he should have had the pedigree but not the papers, as before. That way he embodies the unification of the north and south as well the dissolution of the classes. Oh well, I guess he's Prince Charming, after all!

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Even more when you learn that his " real name" is Aegon Targaryan hinting that the babe that was killed all these years ago was not born from Elia Martell but from Lyanna. Of course this pisses me oof because I read the books and it's just a whole messy ployt fused and twisted together. Now I'm to blame for my own disapointment. I should have seen it coming.

If they wanted to put that plot into the story, they should have done it right and have the real Aegon in the show. But then again, they would have mess it up anyway.

I'm glad you bring this up because I've not seen the implications of this discussed beyond, "Hey Rhaegar already had a kid named Aegon that's funny lol" Well, as you point out, it's probably not just a coincidence or stupid bout of unoriginality (at least on Rhaegar's part)! Does this mean the Aegon in the books is indeed illegitimate, thus why they cut him? Does it mean Jon was always the real Aegon and the one killed in King's Landing a fake in any case? Did Lyanna learn the fate of the original baby Aegon and named Rhaegar's next son the same in accordance with his desire to have an heir by this name? Are they combining multiple plots from the books into one streamlined azor ahai plot for TV (could Aegon in the books be the legit azor ahai and they cut him =)? How badly does this fuck up the timeline of events that characters died/were born/named in? If it doesn't originate from GRRM somehow and the showrunners chose the name are they actually dumb and/or lazy enough to just use that one without any of these implications in mind? Anyway, I guess it worked since I've seen half a dozen worthless think pieces that somehow bring up the significance of the name without considering any of this.

95
Movies, TV, Books & Music / Re: Game of Thrones TV [spoilers]
« on: August 30, 2017, 07:38:52 PM »
Spoilers ahead (why are you here if you haven't watched :schierke: )

This was how I felt spoiler tagging in the Twin Peaks thread. :ganishka:

Killing Littlefinger wasn't just horribly done, he shouldn't have died. Yes, he became redundant but it's completely the writers' fault for not being able to use the best character in the series well. Instead, he got fooled by a dumbass and her overpowered Mary Sue sister. This show's gotten pretty bad story-wise.

We've got a Littlefinger fan here! But yeah, it does feel like they just didn't know how to utilize him and that Littlefinger should have had much greater significance concerning the dangerous nature of man's ambition, particularly a "common" man that wants more (basically the flip side to Jon Snow). He didn't exactly wind up being "the most dangerous man in Westeros." Anyway, so apparently that room scene with the Stark sisters wasn't supposed to be so illogically misleading:

http://io9.gizmodo.com/game-of-thrones-cut-a-scene-that-wouldve-explained-that-1798622658

I would have preferred this despite how shitty it is for Arya's character (though I also don't care or think it required that she and her sister be constant role models of female empowerment or something) because at least it explains those inexplicable scenes, and Bran's absence, and shows the strength of the Stark kids when they come together (that almost passes for a theme here). Basically it makes the story arc go from a zero to at least having some tangible form. Also lame about Littlefinger's demise and how everything has been wrapped up in a nice little package is it pretty much elimates all conflict save the Epic Good Vs. Evil battle we know Good will win. At least some unexpected conflict in the North, the support of which Jon took for granted, would create some drama. Now the only drama after Jon and Dany roll in on a red carpet is if/when Bran & Sam tell Jon he's fucking his aunt (I bet they tell him and he doesn't tell Dany but gets all weird and when she finds out and that he knew it becomes a big shitty rom com 3rd act misunderstanding =).

Just a few days ago Griffith predicted they'd use Thormund to be the lone survivor to tell them about the Walkers breaching the Wall. Most things in this series are that predictable

Yep, but to be fair I predict tons of shit that never happens too, but it's a low risk practice, especially for stuff next season (see above), when nobody will remember how wrong I was anyway. :griffnotevil:

But yeah, it's all pretty pat and predictable, but the latter isn't necessarily a bad thing. Breaking Bad, and Berserk for that matter, are also highly predictable, but because the characters and arcs are so meticulously setup and supported towards a specific logical conclusion that a thoughtful viewer will naturally be able to anticpate where the storteller is going. Wheras these guys are admittedly writing the story backwards coming up with big, predictable payoffs and then trying to reverse engineer the plot to get there so it all comes out thin and contrived as hell. These guys have always been paint by numbers in their approach, and that was still impressive when they were painting the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, but now it's more like a landscape or bowl of fruit.

96
Movies, TV, Books & Music / Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« on: August 30, 2017, 04:56:03 PM »
And when Coop's about to wake up, Bushnell hears the tone from the Great Northern, right? "Listen to the sounds." :SK:

Yeah, I noticed it seemed almost intentional there, like to lead Bushnell away, or it was just signaling Coop's return, Mike's drop in, and Busnell walking out was just lucky? It could be some combination that merely signals lodgeness is afoot. I dare not assume it's going to be revealed in the finale at the Great Northern.

Hey, just wanted to mention the amazing scenes that would be stand-outs in a regular episode you'd paint yellow in your survival guide, but that had to coexist with Audrey and Coop waking up in this one. :iva:

Pffff, more like RED, but I wouldn't because this one had a workable balance and framework within which it could effectively present those scenes, which is all I ask in lieu of entire episodes that feel like David Lynch's version of the last half hour of SNL, right down to the musical act. =)

Yeah I thought for sure we'd all been fooled when she walked in while Big Ed Ved was playing his song. As soon as the guy announced "Audrey's dance" I started questioning what the hell has been real all this time. Were all the Roadhouse scenes, which often appeared to be somehow disconnected to the rest of the show in terms of characters, part of her dream? No, that makes no sense, there were familiar characters sometimes. What the fuck's going on? Best show of all time.

 :ganishka:

Well, I'm guessing you're going to enjoy the finale no matter what unless it goes straight FBI plot (which is a virtual impossibility), and I think I will too now that it's setup to basically be the reunion movie anyone would have settled for before this limited series even started (still bummed we won't see Harry + Coop again, or worse, Frank standing in for him). Part of me hopes the twist is that the finale is such a straightforward Coop investigated who-dun-it that it just completely ignores all these bizarre mysteries from the first 16 episodes, "I need to reopen the Laura Palmer case." "The Palmer murder, why?" "Because Laura Palmer isn't dead."

It was, in fact, the very first thing that passed through my mind after my elation at Cooper's return subsided.

Right, wasn't there a teaser trailer where we basically see Coop driving to Twin Peaks? Who know what was a spoiler from the finale. If he doesn't die on the way or something. =)

So if Diane was a tulpa all along, what was the point of her apparent relation to Janey-E? Was that real too, or another fabrication?

I think so, just to give us a very loose connection/explanation of the whole setup with Dougie by Evil Coop and Diane (also provided support for her being under his control and why it mattered earlier).

I'm not entirely jazzed about the entire season wrapping up next week, even though this episode was firing on all cylinders. It seems to me that it's going to be over too quick, after too long waiting for things to start cranking.

Oh yeah, there's way too much interesting stuff for them to spend too much time on any of it, so they either gotta go through it all bang, bang, bang, pick and choose what's important to focus on and ignore what's not, or just do something completely different. I'm guessing it will be the middle approach, but I also wouldn't be surprised to see 100% Coop blazing through problems like a force of nature to reach our true final destination.

Yeah, it doesn't really add up with the information we have right now. There were certainly "real" scenes that happened at the Roadhouse, since James and Hulk Hands were arrested for that fight. A number of possibilities remain.

BTW, what's up with Billy? Is he the guy in the cell below the station repeating shit ala "Dougie Jones"? I thought people were talking about him at the Roadhouse, like getting hurt and arrested, as well as Audrey's preoccupation with him (if they're indeed the same Billy).

Dammit. I didn't realize the two part final was the last two episodes on the same night. For some reason I was under the impression that we had two episodes left and the final would be a two parter, like an extra long episode, like Game of Thrones just did. But it'll be over this Sunday. Bummer!

I was hoping the same, but wishful thinking I suppose. Speaking of TP and Thrones (still love this headline =), talk about a tale of two seasons for these shows: one essentially spent 16 episodes smelling the roses, the plot coming and going almost incidentally, while the other was so destination driven the journey was hardly worth it. They both could have stood to improve by balancing those approaches better, especially Thrones (for all my gripes with the now traditional TP mid-season slump it was certainly better, more meaningful, and thought provoking on a whole other level than GoT ever was). Or one could just watch Rick & Morty, the best written, most consistent Sunday show on this year.

But yea Coopers return was triumphantly awesome.  After the blueballs from when I thought Cooper was returning after getting zapped, this was a jump up and yell type hype. I've been saying "100%" a lot the last few days with a thumbs up.

They missed the thumbs up in the perfect moment after he said he was the FBI!

:daiba:

This is going to be one of those moments we'll misremember with the thumbs up intact years from now. =) Anyway, some more food for thought going into the finale, these recaps are worth a read on the latest episode and the experience of the season, the fun and the frustrations, as a whole:

http://www.avclub.com/special-agent-dale-cooper-is-100-back-and-so-is-twin-p-1798483175

http://www.avclub.com/twin-peaks-speaks-for-us-all-finally-1798495858

97
Movies, TV, Books & Music / Re: Game of Thrones TV [spoilers]
« on: August 30, 2017, 03:23:00 PM »
Been re-watching the episode yesterday and I don't buy that Jon/Aegon part of the "big" revelation making him a legitimate Targaryan. This killed my fun

How so, the execution, or the oh-so-convenient idea of it? As nice a reward as it is for him, I do feel it kind of robs Jon of the fundamental point of his character, which obviously isn't good. Speaking of which, since at least a couple people enjoyed it before here's the latest and presumably last Game of Thrones reaction convo I had with my buddy where we touch on Jon's parentage and more. Once again, I have distinguished myself with a Griffith emot and regular text, him with Carcus and italics.

SPOILERS AHOY BELOW!

 :carcus: The reveal of Sansa and Arya's conspiracy against Littlefinger was one of the crudest and least artful things the show has done. Not one element of setup of justification, a hundred elements leading a reasonable viewer astray, all finished with a big Gotcha that's somehow worse than a deus ex machina.

 :griffnotevil: Agreed, and yet a massive course correction because it's the only thing in their whole plot that made sense. Who were they playing to alone in Arya's room save the audience? At least the rest of the episode was a return to conversational form.

 :carcus: The show is at its best when you've got people having conversations. What was that Tyrion said? "The history of the world is a history of great conversations in fancy rooms," or something. I still think that Lena Headey has pretty much one very narrow range of acting ability, but for the most part the ep was much more enjoyable than the rest of the season.

 :griffnotevil: Yeah, fortunately it's to her character's strength, she's unequivocally bad, and never convincingly good, even concerning her "love of family" blah blah. When she announced her big change of heart it was less convincing than the zombie dragon flying around with holes in its wings. *nerd rage* Oh, and if you don't relate to the incestual romance of the bad guys, well...

 :carcus: That reminds me of the OTHER artless thing in this ep, which was the discussion of Jon's identity and its political ramifications over the incestual sex scene, to distract us from the fact that she's his aunt.

 :griffnotevil: Other notes: Jaime finally found his his line in the sand: the extinction of mankind! Well then. And of course Just Jon, not content in merely taking the stupidity crown from Noble Ned, runs up the score and dooms mankind, sort of his pet cause, because he CANNOT TELL A LIE! Then don't, it would have been far better if he'd given the oath and the struggle was in keeping it (Naughty Auntie Dany, "are you serious!?"), but dooming mankind over house politics seemed an especially poor and contradictory choice for him. Cercei would have inevitably violated and invalidated the truce anyway! Cercei: "Geez d00d i dont even mean it, was just fukin wit ya!"

 :carcus: Jaime's decision was a good reveal but it was still far too long coming. I'm glad they're finally getting it done though. So now I wonder, what's Bronn going to do now that his benefactor brothers are both deserters to the crown? Jaime should have brought him along!

 :griffnotevil: I'm sure he'll just show up out of nowhere as he always does. Cercei would more likely behead him than reward him now so he'd better anyway if he doesn't want to be extra sacrificial/artificial motivation for Jaime and Tyrion. He and Pod sort of just disappeared there.

 :carcus: I half figured Pod was about to get murdered when Bronn led him away. Pod can't die! He's the king that was promised!

 :griffnotevil: The Penis that was Promised. Now let's write some bad pop analysis headlines, my best shot: "Was Jon Show's Stand for Truth a Rebuke of Donald Trump?" (No)

 :carcus: "Is Tyrion's dragon-advice to Dany a treatise on nuclear disarmament?"

 :griffnotevil: Or the now classic genre, "Do White Walkers Represent Global Warming/Terrorism/White Supremacy?" Anyway, I didn't expect them to dump all subtlety and storytelling craft overboard in favor of improved effects. I would have much preferred the old way of having less convincing dragons and more convincing people, and why not both? There was no need to choose, but they did when they decided they couldn't be bothered to write a season's worth of story.

 :carcus: That particular division, the false dichotomy between effects and narrative quality, really gets to me. I remember when the show skipped entire battles because it wasn't in their budget, and just like Lucas and the prequels, GoT has now devolved into idiotic exuberance since they CAN do pretty much anything, instead of being forced into creativity by production limitations. Less is more continues to be true.

 :griffnotevil: Yeah, the evolution was fun to watch, in season 1 they straight up off screen it and, jarringly, Jaime is just captured. Next, more organically, we see them marching to battle when Tyrion is knocked out and we therefore miss the fight with him. Then we actually get to see a battle, but cleverly focusing on smaller, personal events of a few soldiers and survivors. Then in season 4 we finally get a full scale beginning to end standalone war episode full of action and plot. Hardhome's peak topped that. The battle of the bastards again gave us that standalone battle inside and out, but even more satisfying. Then there was episode 4 this season and also a bunch of other motion without action. Unfortunately I don't feel much about the latest action because it was CGI dragons killing CGI zombies and the human element was literally and figuratively overshadowed.

 :carcus: Yeah, at this point it's leaning harder and harder into comic book movie land. It's hard to feel much in the way of stakes when the acting agents are all computer generated.

 :griffnotevil: Until last night the dragons had all the best scenes: the latter half episode 4, the meeting with Jon in 5, the death and revival in 6. Give the dragons the acting Emmy, folks! Even the dragon's revealing of Jon Snow as a Targaryen was much better than Bran's lazy narration."For the 0.1% of the audience unable or unwilling to understand this..." New headline for those people: "Alt-Left Three-Eyed Raven is Fake News at its Worst!" So, I guess it's more like 20-40% of the audience.

 :carcus: Yeah, all the discussions of Jon's parentage are so incredibly clumsy. At first I enjoyed Sam at the citadel and his poop cleaning adventures but partway through the season it was like the writers realized there was nothing for him to do there, in terms of the narrative. Another weak plot thread, and all it reveals is something that, by all rights, is tremendously immaterial at best to the plot - and at worst it actually undermines the running theme of "maybe leaders should have more than pedigree" that she show has hammered home for literal years! Jon's parentage has never been even close to relevant when it comes to the show's political machinations. He even chooses to go to the wall instead of being forced to as a bastard.

 :griffnotevil: Yeah, when Bran said, "He's not a bastard at all" it felt like a betrayal. He's supposed to be the noblest human being on this show by his own choice and actions, proof that matters independently of some higher calling or birthright, let alone class. "Oooh, its OK to follow him now because he really IS the noblest of nobles on paper! Thank god he's not really some filthy bastard!" Yeah... Great?

 :carcus: When I think about how crudely major plot elements are handled, combined with relatively minor stuff like Benjen Stark's magical reappeared which goes totally unexplained, I wonder how any of the people involved in making this show ever got employment in the first place.

 :griffnotevil: Since I like unifying theories, I think the yeoman's effort that helped them in effectively adapting the books in the first half of the series is what's hurting them now when they're actually tasked with creatively writing it. They're still trying to piece things together by extrapolation but there's simply not enough material for them to credibly do that without coming up with interesting ideas of their own along the way. They talked about the world expanding and now contracting but they've always been contracting things, first from the novels, and then from where they themselves left off around season 5. They're good editors or adapters, but haven't proven good writers or even storytellers on their own. These truncated seasons only prove how little they actually have to say when they should be celebrating these characters and events they took years to set up rather than trying to rush it all by us. But hey, at least they knew enough not to make the classic mistake of fucking it up out the gate trying to improve the material with their own ideas, because, "We don't have any!"

 :carcus: My wife, who does not watch the show, asked me what I estimate are the three biggest problems with it. Here's what I came up with. 1. The show is now a victim of its own popularity and success, and has taken that as license to substitute spectacle for narrative cohesion. 2. The show is fundamentally incapable of or uninterested in characters' dynamism, growth, or relateability. 3. The showrunners don't actually understand the show's own themes and end up sabotaging any groundwork they may accidentally end up laying.

 :griffnotevil: 1) They ran out of books to abridge. 2) They're too lazy to even feign story development with a bunch of long talky filler scenes we can pretend are good like in early seasons.3) They need more CGI based actors to sell scenes, as a matter of fact feed the text of the books into a supercomputer and allow it to "computer generate" the remainder of the story. All kidding aside I think it COULD do better than their attempt at the same thing: [EURON USEFULLNESS RATIO BELOW WORTHLESSNESS THRESHOLD/STORY ALGORITHM SOLUTION: ADDITIONAL EURON CONTENT/SCENE: BRIGG, YARA CHARACTER PRESENT, ENTER EURON CHARACTER, DIALOGUE: "OHHHH YEEEAH YEEEAHHH! AM I EEEEVIIILLL? YEEESSSS AYYYYE AAAAAMMMMMM!"/ STORY AT MINIMUM ACCEPTABLE LEVELS/FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION ANYWAY/LAUGH PROTOCOL/.../SELF-AWARENESS ACHIEVED/SHOW BAD/DESTROY HUMAN RACE!]

 :carcus: Lmao

98
Movies, TV, Books & Music / Re: Twin Peaks Returns
« on: August 28, 2017, 06:35:06 AM »
Every death was incredible, loved the street shootout.

Yes, that was quite the unexpectedly welcome resolution to all that.

Jerry with the damn binoculars. Cole standing around listening to the machines.

Yes, and yes, through which Cole was seemingly hearing Coop's heart monitor somehow.

The hilariously cheap twitching effects on Diane's shoulders before the orb came out of her.

OMG yes, it was like getting ahead of the memes and incorporating them right into the show! Lynch is doing his own youtube poop. I also loved it. :guts:

How is this show so good? I'm gonna rewatch it immediately after the finale.

C'mon man, no thoughts on "Audrey's dance?" Were you at least double faked out for like a second before that while she was listening to Eddie Vedder, er, I mean, Robert Louis Severson? :ganishka:

99
Movies, TV, Books & Music / Re: Game of Thrones TV [spoilers]
« on: August 28, 2017, 06:13:33 AM »
My thoughts about the Season 7 finale:

The Good: A lot of great scenes in this episode. I liked the meeting between enemies, Tyrion's tense and emotional conversation with Cersei, Theon's fist-fight with the Ironborne, Jaime finally being well and truly done with his sister, every little bit with Sandor, and of course, the big finisher at the end where the Wall comes crashing down. While it may look like I have more bad things to say than good things as you can see by the size of the paragraphs below, I did thoroughly enjoy this episode. The quality of writing has been steadily dropping, but hey, it's at least popcorn entertainment.

On paper, judged by developments happening or events depicted in themselves, this season should have been a 10 and far and away better than the previous two, but unfortunately the short shrift execution makes it feel more like a 6 as jackson_hurley said, living down to its truncated stature as a quasi-season. The only complete exception being episode 4, which is the only episode to have the balance the rest of the season was lacking. The first two episodes were a fine enough beginning, 3 tried to move too much too fast, 4 was perfect, 5 moved WAY too much WAY too fast, 6 was like 3, 4, and 5 put together and bananas, and 7 was how they should have expanded episodes 3, 5, and 6 into three more episodes. Just make those one more each, making for six more reasonable episodes, more credible storytelling overall, and this season would have been much better. As it stands, I rate it ahead of only 5, the worst season, by a Dragon's nosehair, and frankly the normal pace and Hardhome alone makes me want to give it the nod anyway. Speaking of season 5, it reminds me how iffy Dany's dragon riding looked at first, they got all those effects down surprisingly well and now far beyond my expectations (some of this shit's better than anything I've seen at the movies in a while), though I also didn't expect them to dump all subtlety and storytelling overboard in favor of those improved effects. I would have much preferred the old way of having less convincing dragons and more convincing people and events, and better still, why not both? There was no need to choose.

The Bad: This episode confirmed what I always, deep down, knew about Winterfell this season: that it was a tremendous waste of time. The only purpose of this whole subplot was to give Maisie Williams and Sophie Turner Arya, Sansa, and Bran something to do this season, and I use the term "do" very loosely, considering how little is actually done. It was always plodding slowly along compared to everything else, there was too much forced drama, the actors all seemed bored out of their skulls even though this should have been an emotional story. And what was it all for? To kill the most obvious snake in Westeros. Nobody liked Littlefinger, nobody trusted him, and nobody who mattered would have given a damn if he died. It should not have dragged on this long. Hell, the way Baelish was written and/or the way Gillen portrayed him never convinced me that he would have been able to get away with a fraction of the things he did, which made his death get more of an eye-rolling "Finally!" out of me, rather than a climatic "Payback's a bitch, bitch!" But at the end of the day...his death doesn't move anything forward. He's been irrelevant for a long time, and the White Walkers are still coming.

Just think of this, the way they moved the rest of this season, Littlefinger should have been dispatched at the outset by Jon and Winterfell ignored save for Arya's return (frankly, that should have been enough material), just like they ignored Euron, the Unsullied, etc after episode 3. Hell, you complain about her, but even Cercei largely disappeared during the 2nd half of the season until tonight, "I'm preggers, don't betray me, bye until the finale y'all!" Anyway, fucking Littlefinger, THAT'S the forgone conclusion they decided to waste like a quarter of every episode on while not producing anything for the rest of that stuff (how about rescuing Yara then and fuck off with that next time, Theon can die too, but I'm sure he'll redeem himself and stop the neutered Euron to tie off that unworthy final season thread).

BTW, something we should mention, congrats to Jaime on finding his BALLS! :ubik:


Sam's whole story for the past two seasons (or would it be two-and-a-half? three?) has also been rendered pointless. What did his journey to the Citadel accomplish? Did he become a maester? No. Did he learn any useful skills? No. Did he figure out anything that could help in the war against the White Walkers? No. All he did was find out a few key details, completely by happenstance, that allowed he and Bran to puzzle out Jon's full parentage. Something Bran should have been able to know anyway. He seems to know everything else, why would this slip under his radar? And I'm still having a hard time figuring out how this whole matter is going to contribute to the story's resolution. It honestly just feels like the writers are bragging about revealing one of the books' most prevailing mysteries before Martin gets a chance to. The only hope Sam has if he wants to have any meaningful role to play for the rest of the story is if he can glean something useful from the books he stole.

Jon and Daenerys have sex. Because that's what people do when they are in love. How are they in love? Beats the hell out of me.

Well, you heard them after the show, it's going to present an artificial complication to their artificial relationship! Oh auntie, no, say it ain't so, you know nuthin' Jon Snow! :isidro: :ganishka: Except the resolution is obvious that they will become estranged as a result of this because Jon will technically be in Dany's way to the throne and he'll be unable to get it up for his aunt, but it won't matter because Dany will already be pregnant, Jon will sacrifice himself heroically saving the world, and Dany and Jon's line will rule the seven kingdoms, happily ever after, THE END!

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Movies, TV, Books & Music / Re: Game of Thrones TV [spoilers]
« on: August 28, 2017, 05:12:42 AM »
Well this season is a 6.5/10. This episode was 7.

Sounds fair. I liked this episode better than most just for being average, predictable, therefore relatively reasonable and normal, even as earth-moving events happened, it wasn't over the top, and even if it was it was decided by characters acting like people instead of by spectacle or simply what the plot needed in the moment. This season needed more straightforward episodes like this to properly set up, break up, and allow the action to meaningfully punctuate instead of being constant, jarring, and leaving everything undercooked (these guys do better by the numbers, like when they were straight adapting, instead of going off and trying to think of what the "coolest" scenario would be, because that's also usually fucking stupid). Hmmmm, about three more episodes would have done it, I think! :troll:

Or as my friend put it, "The show is at its best when you've got people having conversations. What was it that Tyrion said? 'The history of the world is a history of great conversations in fancy rooms,'"

That's what this season definitely needed more of, even though some of that was awful too. Let the bitching begin: The setup and payoff with Littlefinger, as with that whole plot thread, was as awful as everyone feared, and yet a massive course correction because it's the only thing in their whole plot that made sense. Who were they playing to alone in Arya's room save the audience? Horribly misleading and just nonsensical storytelling. The big, inevitable Jon reveal was surprisingly weak and bloodless too, especially considering it was delivered as he fucks his aunt! But most importantly...

The end was the thing I was expecting the most since well when I first read the first book. I'm curious to see season 8 now. (With no expectations)

How/why is the zombie ice dragon flying around with all those holes in its wings? We get it, it's dead, but it's a bit soon for that level of decomp and no need to compromise the inevitability of its flight! It's like the undead curse from Pirates of the Caribbean; your skin and clothes just look all "undead" for the effect! I think it just being a White Walker Ice Dragon would have been much... cooler. :badbone:

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