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91
Berserk Miscellaneous / Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
« Last post by Walter on July 14, 2017, 06:39:50 PM »
I'm ambivalent to the idea of Grunbeld becoming an anti hero apostle that saved his people, part of being an apostle is severing your ties to humanity, apostles don't help people. After all, how does Grunbeld feel about flooding his old homeland with hordes of monsters?

The deeper we went with the initial summary that was posted, the less it held up. I wouldn't put too much stock into it, particularly details like this.
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Berserk Miscellaneous / Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
« Last post by Doc on July 13, 2017, 06:56:05 PM »
I'm ambivalent to the idea of Grunbeld becoming an anti hero apostle that saved his people, part of being an apostle is severing your ties to humanity, apostles don't help people. After all, how does Grunbeld feel about flooding his old homeland with hordes of monsters?

Well, like the rest of Griffith's generals, Grunbeld is more morally ambiguous compared to your typical apostle.

Assuming this is an accurate synopsis, of course.
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Berserk Miscellaneous / Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
« Last post by MrFlibble on July 13, 2017, 11:14:00 AM »
I'm ambivalent to the idea of Grunbeld becoming an anti hero apostle that saved his people, part of being an apostle is severing your ties to humanity, apostles don't help people. After all, how does Grunbeld feel about flooding his old homeland with hordes of monsters?
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Berserk Miscellaneous / Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
« Last post by Walter on July 13, 2017, 12:55:44 AM »
There's no doubt in my mind that this thing is simply the "merchandising ploy" that you describe. I'd have a hard time believing it's something that Miura personally thought up and planned around. My question is how much of a say Miura has on such things. Could he have outright said "no" to something like this? Depending on the contract in question, at least in other industries, the author of the source material may have little to no say over something this whatsoever. But I don't know the nature of Miura's relationship with the rights holders.

We don't know, and likely never will, but I'll go back to what I said earlier: If it was something he didn't give two shits about, he likely wouldn't have contributed as much to it.

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My assumption with the recent anime itself is that he had little involvement in the choosing of the studio or the outcome of the product -- I'd guess that he agreed to have the series animated, signed some paperwork, and enjoyed whatever minimal involvement they allowed him while the suits handled the rest.

I agree in part, but as written, it doesn't align with what we were told about how Studio 4C had to pitch their pilot to Miura, who had rejected other attempts over the years. There's no mention in that little anecdote about having to pitch it to Hakusensha. In that scenario, it's entirely possible that the publisher may have been interested in an animation, but wanted to get Miura's blessing before doing anything. After that point, his involvement is a bit nebulous.

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For example; if Miura's permission to make the light novel was required, then that means this project has his blessing up and down.

That is the assumption that I'm going with.

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He approved of it to begin with and regardless of how much involvement he had in making it, his stamp of approval is on it.

We don't need to surmise this his illustrations and his name on the cover are a sufficient stamp of approval.
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Berserk Merchandise / Re: Prime 1 launches a Berserk line
« Last post by bruhaha69 on July 12, 2017, 10:23:04 PM »
Agreed on the face.....nice details, bit it's quite off.  This is the other face. 





I think it's a bit better, but still not quite right.
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Berserk Miscellaneous / Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
« Last post by volatilecurry on July 12, 2017, 07:58:46 PM »
Miura has taken every opportunity to stand behind this thing, particularly knowing his lack of dedicated involvement in other recent projects. His name is on the cover, he provided original art (which is awesome), and he praised the "establishment of Grunbeld's story" in the recent YA comment. If he wasn't proud of it, or his involvement was minimal, we'd likely have gotten the simple "please buy the new Berserk thing!" comment that we often saw in relation to the movies.

That being said, we will likely never know the specifics of what transpired between he and the writer. I think there are some safe assumptions though. Miura has been very protective of Berserk, so I have a hard time believing he placed his entire trust in the writer to flesh out Grunbeld's story. He probably had pointers from Miura about the overall thrust. There's also a pretty safe bet about why this thing was created, and thus, how fans should weigh it in their minds. Given the recent animation, it would make sense if this novel was born as a merchandising ploy, using a character that had recently taken the spotlight.

What I can't reconcile throughout this whole thing is what Miura was thinking about the audience at large, the international fans, which he is keenly aware of. It sure seems like an irresponsible merchandising choice, made without much thought for how the overall story of Berserk is assimilated. There's zero guarantee we'll ever get the novel officially translated. So what are we to do, and how are we to treat this thing? It's an uncomfortable place to be for fans. The fact that we've gotten a hastily assembled summary has changed nothing in that regard, as we expected.

There's no doubt in my mind that this thing is simply the "merchandising ploy" that you describe. I'd have a hard time believing it's something that Miura personally thought up and planned around. My question is how much of a say Miura has on such things. Could he have outright said "no" to something like this? Depending on the contract in question, at least in other industries, the author of the source material may have little to no say over something this whatsoever. But I don't know the nature of Miura's relationship with the rights holders.

My assumption with the recent anime itself is that he had little involvement in the choosing of the studio or the outcome of the product -- I'd guess that he agreed to have the series animated, signed some paperwork, and enjoyed whatever minimal involvement they allowed him while the suits handled the rest. But how far does something like his reach? Do they need to ask his permission to have light novels made? Or did they approach him and say "We're making this, what material do you have that we can use?", or something to that effect? This may be another thing that we'll simply never know the details of, but I think the answer to these questions is pretty important.

For example; if Miura's permission to make the light novel was required, then that means this project has his blessing up and down. He approved of it to begin with and regardless of how much involvement he had in making it, his stamp of approval is on it. But if his permission was not required and it was happening regardless of what he contributed, then that's a bit of a different story. Sure his name would be on the thing and his stamp of approval would be there, but that stamp of approval may be superficial. He could be totally unhappy about the existence of the thing and the end result, but is forced to put on a happy face and support it openly due to contractual obligations.

I'm just spitballing possible scenarios here. I'm very curious about how all this goes behind the scenes.
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Berserk Merchandise / Re: Prime 1 launches a Berserk line
« Last post by Aazealh on July 12, 2017, 03:48:00 PM »
Likeness of the face is completely off. :sad:
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Berserk Merchandise / Re: Prime 1 launches a Berserk line
« Last post by Kaladin on July 12, 2017, 02:27:17 PM »
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Berserk Miscellaneous / Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
« Last post by Walter on July 12, 2017, 01:21:41 AM »
What I meant to say is; the length of the novel and amount of detail that (I assume, having not read it) it goes into are beyond the scope of what I'd like to see in the manga for most characters.

Well, we were never going to get that amount of detail, because that's not how Miura writes. And even though the format of a novel affords more room to develop that story, I don't personally care what someone other than Miura has to say about that world. Even if this does bear the official license, it will never amount to more than a novelty, excuse the pun.

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For Skull Knight or Isidro or someone vital to the cast, I'll gladly take an entire episode (or two or three?!) dedicated to them -- if Miura has that much to say about them, that is. But I do not want to see that much for Grunbeld, Locus, Irvine, etc. A brief flashback of a few pages or even just a couple of text bubbles that explain where they come from is enough for most of them in my opinion.

We're back to a weird place again -- the presumption that the backstory Miura had originally planned for those characters would feel bloated. It's never been the case before, why would it be different moving forward? This novel exists purely for merchandising reasons. It's unlikely Grunbeld's story was ever going to be excessively long, because there's just no precedent for it. Ganiskha was a far more consequential character, and he got about a half episode. The beherit-apostle's origin was a bit longer, a full episode, give or take, but no complaints from fans for its length that I'm aware of. 

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From there, if you want more, I think a novel or a one-shot about the character that stands beside the manga is appropriate.

Maybe if it didn't spoil the reveal Miura was going to do eventually, at a natural place for the story. But this novel has already taken that possibility away. That's a pretty key factor in people's reception to this thing.

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American comics do this all the time and it's not an issue there.

American comics are a different industry with a dramatically different (shittier) way of telling stories. The characters in US comics exist to serve as ageless, interminable banners for their brands, not to tell a story with a clear beginning and an ending. It's inconsequential what a side novel brings to the table, because those characters have their universes reset every 5 years after being passed between a handful of writers.

Also, light novels do exist for manga. They're not uncommon, and they seem to vary in degrees from controversial to benign.

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What I do take issue with is if said side material contradicts the source material or if it opens up plot holes that the source material doesn't address. If Miura gave the author of the novel an outline of what the story is about, and then checked it for consistency (or at least had someone check it for him) then this shouldn't be an issue. I don't know if that's the case with this novel, and based on the summary provided above, I'm a bit worried that the author had more free reign than we might like... But again, I'll wait until have a more detailed summary before jumping to conclusions.

Miura has taken every opportunity to stand behind this thing, which is particularly striking knowing his lack of dedicated involvement in other recent projects. His name is on the cover, he provided original art (which is awesome), and he praised the "establishment of Grunbeld's story" in the recent YA comment. If he wasn't proud of it, or his involvement was minimal, we'd likely have gotten the simple "please buy the new Berserk thing!" comment that we often saw in relation to the movies.

That being said, we will likely never know the specifics of what transpired between he and the writer. I think there are some safe assumptions though. Miura has been very protective of Berserk, so I have a hard time believing he placed his entire trust in the writer to flesh out Grunbeld's story. He probably had pointers from Miura about the overall thrust. There's also a pretty safe bet about why this thing was created, and thus, how fans should weigh it in their minds. Given the recent animation, it would make sense if this novel was born as a merchandising ploy, using a character that had recently taken the spotlight.

What I can't reconcile throughout this whole thing is what Miura was thinking about the audience at large, the international fans, which he is keenly aware of. It sure seems like an irresponsible merchandising choice, made without much thought for how the overall story of Berserk is assimilated. There's zero guarantee we'll ever get the novel officially translated. So what are we to do, and how are we to treat this thing? It's an uncomfortable place to be for fans. The fact that we've gotten a hastily assembled summary has changed nothing in that regard, as we expected.

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The ideal scenario may lie somewhere in between -- with the manga giving us the vital bits of the back story and then letting the character really shine in their own stand alone tale that goes beyond the scope of what should have been included in the manga.

Again, that sounds less problematic if the novel came out sometime after the origin story's reveal in the manga. That isn't what happened though, so the whole thing has a stigma attached to it. 

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Think "The History of Trunks" from Dragon Ball Z. Trunks was a main character for a rather long story arc (often separated into two arcs, actually) and was massively influential to the story of that time. His back story was elaborated on within the original series, but he was given even more back story in his own standalone movie. Similarly, "Bardock - Father of Goku" was a standalone movie that gave a full back story on a character that wasn't originally mentioned in the manga, but was later referenced briefly after the success of the movie. Maybe Berserk would benefit most from a scenario like one of these.

I don't think there's much to compare between Berserk and Dragon Ball Z.

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If Skull Knight's story isn't explained in the manga at all (beyond the little bits we have so far) and is instead sold as a standalone novel or something written by a third party, then I wouldn't be too happy and I think the manga would suffer as a result of it.

Understatement of the millennium.
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Berserk Merchandise / Re: Displaying Berserk Art & Merchandise
« Last post by rockvoanjd on July 11, 2017, 09:00:20 PM »

Just got this one back from the frame shop. I have a thing for Japanese video game promo posters. PS2 Berserk


And I finally got this little guy in. I've been looking for this version for awhile, as an avid fishermen I simply enjoy this.
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