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91
Shootin' the Breeze / Re: Your most hated words
« Last post by DANGERDOOOOM on January 09, 2017, 10:54:14 PM »
G-A-T-T-S
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Speculation Nation / Re: Elfhelm: the stage for the next great tragedy
« Last post by Walter on January 09, 2017, 08:20:28 PM »
What a mess this thread has become... Who do you expect to read all of these unrelated things? Guts saving the noblemen? The Sea God an impediment to Griffith? Please try to keep it on topic in the future.

I almost admire your tenacity in clinging to an unpopular notion that in just a few weeks will be put to the ultimate test. But it seems to me that you're at the extreme end of the possibility space for Casca's future. Of all the possible vectors for her next steps, you're erring on the side of "Fuck Casca, she always sucked anyway," which I think could be clouding your judgment on the actualities.

She can't "betray" Guts, because she doesn't owe him anything.

Being in a relationship isn't about "owing" people.

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After the Eclipse Casca never asked Guts to protect her or to do anything for her.  I never liked Casca as a character but I will not deny that she has the right to live her life the way she wants and to pursue her own dreams.

I guess we should do a recap? First, Guts didn't rescue Casca from the Eclipse. That was the Skull Knight. Casca couldn't verbalize anything, because she was a shell of her former self. Guts left her in the only safe place he knew of (not arguing he didn't do so also out of selfishness and negligence, but that's not on the table right now). After that, she escaped, and Guts successfully reclaimed her, returning her back to that same safe place. That safe place was destroyed, so he went on to find another haven for her. When was he was supposed to recognize her internal pain and kill her in her sleep?

As for her right to live how she wants, she hasn't had a chance to choose that yet. Her current state of mind wasn't a choice she made. It was thrust upon her.

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But if you liked Casca because she was a strong, independent woman then don't complain when the new Casca does something that Guts (and the fans) don't want to happen.

But you're the one complaining about something that hasn't happened yet (not to mention complaining about the character herself).

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Right now her child is the only thing she has left. It is much more important than her friendship with Farnese. Yes, it is her only reason to keep on living.

Then why would Farnese be considered a valid sacrifice for Casca? Do you think she might be able to pull a fast one on the God Hand and hide her son's existence from them?

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She was in love (or maybe just in a good mood) with Guts before Guts physically and sexually assaulted her. I do expect Casca to be very angry about what happened to the old BOTH, but I also believe that she will not want to do anything anymore with Griffith and Guts. We really can't deny that both Griffith and Guts hurt and disappointed Casca very much.

Unlike the manga's medium, this issue is not black and white. Certainly, she and Guts will have to reconcile. But there's no denying that Guts has undertaken considerable pains to keep her alive for the past 2 years. And yes, it's inconclusive whether she'll be thankful of that or not in the short term, but his efforts and intentions aren't likely to be diminished. I find it hard to believe that once duly informed of everything Guts has endured (and how he has grown as a result) that Casca would cast aside everything that Guts is for his one moment of weakness. It doesn't speak very highly of your opinion of Guts, or Casca, for that matter.

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4. The fact that Guts and Casca survived the Conviction story arc (mostly) unharmed. Let's face it, they had amazing plot armor to survive that night in Albion which was basically an Eclipse 2.0

Actually, Casca was supposed to die in Albion, but that eventuality was subverted by Isidro's actions. It was another "junction of time," where there was a small hole in Causality's plans. That's what the whole "jumping fish" analogy was aimed at, and why it was reiterated during that moment.

Not sure why there's a whole section on the Idea of Evil here....

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Don't forget that Guts and his party literally saved the lives of all the noblemen in Vritannis
...
How exactly would Griffith save all those noblemen from the Kushan enchanted tigers if Guts wasn't there?

Griffith didn't need the noblemen. They were worthless for his regime. Their survival was an unnecessary bonus.

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Even when Guts defeated the Sea God he unintentionally helped Griffith. Now there is one less enemy in the way if Griffith decides to invade Elfhelm.

The Sea God was never a threat to Griffith or the Idea of Evil's plans. It was one (of thousands) of supernatural threats out there now that the worlds have merged. You're folding it into your agenda here because you've apparently decided to create a bulleted list of every encounter in the series.

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Guts was already there, and he had to kill the Sea God because it was a dangerous obstacle on the way to Elfhelm.

Sheesh, if that's how you feel about the series, why not just check in after it's done and skip to the last episode? Afterall, everything else HAD to be killed because they were dangerous obstacles to the story's conclusion.

Closed the Quilpoth reducing the quantity of Slan's beasties

Misunderstanding. Slan's domain isn't Qliphoth, nor are those creatures under her dominion. She was able to manifest there and manipulate the region because of their shared affinity with darkness. As for Slan's actual domain, we've seen a glimpse of it, and it's not Qliphoth.
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Shootin' the Breeze / Re: Your most hated words
« Last post by Vampire_Hunter_Bob on January 09, 2017, 12:51:51 PM »
Or get off of Reddit.

Reddit and Twitter. People leaving those places would solve a lot of problems.
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Shootin' the Breeze / Re: Your most hated words
« Last post by Johnstantine on January 09, 2017, 03:28:39 AM »
Maybe you should hang out with a different crowd.

Or get off of Reddit.
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Speculation Nation / Re: Elfhelm: the stage for the next great tragedy
« Last post by The Awful Truth on January 09, 2017, 12:32:57 AM »
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Posted by: Vixen Comics
on: Today at 03:26:02 AM

The Awful Truth I don't think anything can be said to change your mind that Casca is destined to betray Guts since you seem to be very biased against her. I do believe she will not be turned into an apostle though. If anything that stupid is ever done to her I will drop the manga quick. But I honestly don't think Miura is planning to have Casca turn into an apostle and stab Guts in the back. My biggest hope is that when Casca  comes back that she will will be vindicated and fans like you will stop speculating that she will turn traitor.

She can't "betray" Guts, because she doesn't owe him anything. Guts left the Band Of The Hawk then returned 1 year later and helped them to rescue Griffith, and... it was all for nothing because Griffith betrayed all of them. The old BOTH doesn't exist anymore. After the Eclipse Casca never asked Guts to protect her or to do anything for her. I never liked Casca as a character but I will not deny that she has the right to live her life the way she wants and to pursue her own dreams. And Guts was already warned that Casca will not want what he wants.

Is it "stupid" for Casca to do whatever it takes to protect her child? Not at all. That's what any mother would do. And we already saw in Episode 92 that Casca will not allow Guts to hurt her child.

What will make me dislike Casca even more is if she becomes Guts' most loyal comrade just because "the enemy of my enemy is my friend", or even worse a damsel in distress who desperately needs Guts to keep protecting her in this dangerous new world. To me, that would absolutely ruin Casca as a character. She was always portrayed as a strong, independent woman. (I know that she was obsessed with Griffith but look at the big picture). Casca was an anomaly, a type of woman who just didn't exist in real-life medieval world. And she wasn't even a magic user. Casca accomplished everything "the Bakiraka way" by relying on her own body and mind. That's probably why so many fans like her. But if you liked Casca because she was a strong, independent woman then don't complain when the new Casca does something that Guts (and the fans) don't want to happen. I know that turning her into an apostle will mean that she is now dependent on a magical power but there's absolutely no other way for Casca to try to stop Guts from killing Griffith. What is she supposed to do? Beg Guts to forget about Griffith and move on because Griffith is now using the body of their kid as a vessel/hostage. That would be a very anticlimactic ending. I do expect Casca to talk to Guts about this when she gets her sanity back. But I definitely don't expect Guts to completely abandon his quest for revenge just because of their child.

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Posted by: Arc
on: Today at 05:13:11 PM

What? How can you be so sure that after her mind is healed her child is the only thing shes going to care about? No reason for living?? Come on man she WAS in love with guts, she DID have a great feeling of responsibility for the band of the hawk, surely she will be livid once she comes to see the truth. I think you are way to set on Casca ONLY caring about her child- she is not such a one dimensional character.

She was in love (or maybe just in a good mood) with Guts before Guts physically and sexually assaulted her. I do expect Casca to be very angry about what happened to the old BOTH, but I also believe that she will not want to do anything anymore with Griffith and Guts. We really can't deny that both Griffith and Guts hurt and disappointed Casca very much.

Right now her child is the only thing she has left. It is much more important than her friendship with Farnese. Yes, it is her only reason to keep on living. I believe that Casca would have killed herself a long time ago (definitely after Guts sexually assaulted her) if it wasn't for her memories of her child. The power of a mother's love is a huge theme in fiction and in real life. I don't expect Casca to turn into a stereotypical, overprotective Japanese mother but I do believe that we will soon see a side of Casca that we never saw before. It was already hinted at in Episode 92 and in every Episode where her child appeared.

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Nor am I sure we can assume that Zodd would have died without Guts intervention- I mean the guy has survived centuries of battle and I don't think Griffith would let his top lieutenant die so easily.

Zodd was helpless against Ganishka, and the Godhand said it themselves that they don't care if some apostles get killed. The apostles are just expendable servants to them.

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I really don't think ganishka would be a problem for Griffith even if he lost some of his demon army in the holy city.
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While you could argue this made things easier for Griffith I really don't think it would have been hard for Griffith to deal with the Sea God

Yes of course Griffith could have easily killed Ganishka and the Sea God anytime. But this is not about Griffith. The Idea Of Evil is the ultimate villain of Berserk.

The IOE arranged everything so that Guts would end up bringing that Beherit to Elfhelm:

1. Guts' and Casca's survival during the Eclipse. Let's be realistic. Guts and Casca were in big trouble before the Skull Knight showed up and would have been killed... but it wasn't yet their time to die. Something made the apostles hold back. I used to think that it was Griffith's will that kept them alive but that doesn't really make sense. Griffith could have immediately killed them both after he was done humiliating Guts (after the rape scene with Casca). But he didn't. He held back.

2. The fact that Griffith didn't kill Guts when they met in the astral world during the Black Swordsman story arc.

3. The fact that Guts didn't meet an apostle that he couldn't defeat (i.e. someone like Grunbeld) during the Black Swordsman story arc.

4. The fact that Guts and Casca survived the Conviction story arc (mostly) unharmed. Let's face it, they had amazing plot armor to survive that night in Albion which was basically an Eclipse 2.0

5. The destruction of Godo's elf cave, which is what caused the journey to Elfhelm in the first place.

6. The battle in Vritannis and the battle with the Sea God being conveniently on the way to Elfhelm. Even if Griffith could have done it himself it was much more convenient that Guts did it. Think about it. How exactly would Griffith save all those noblemen from the Kushan enchanted tigers if Guts wasn't there? Send Zodd to that party? That would immediately cause suspicion because Zodd even in his human form looks like a monster. Locus fights on horseback and Irvine is an archer. None of them would be suitable for that particular battle. I suppose that Griffith could have walked in and did it himself but he didn't have time for it. He was in command of an entire army, he couldn't waste time on just one small part of a much bigger battle. Sure Griffith could have defeated the Sea God on his own but why bother? Guts was already there, and he had to kill the Sea God because it was a dangerous obstacle on the way to Elfhelm.

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While some of the things hes done have certainly helped pave the way for the neo band of the hawk he as also slowed them down a fair amount. Even if you don't count his apostle hunting days he still has a fairly solid list of set backs for Griffiths plans.
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    Slowed Flora's death and got some good apostle hunting items to help him and his party out. Also saved Schierke (+1 magic user) from death at the hands of the apostles

Guts didn't do anything to "slow" Flora's death, and Flora was ready and willing to die at that point in the story. Even if Guts wasn't there the Skull Knight would have definitely saved Schierke's life and brought her safely to Elfhelm.

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Closed the Quilpoth reducing the quantity of Slan's beasties

Which made no difference in the long run. We saw what happened when the worlds merged. Mythical beasts began appearing and attacking all over the world making the crisis in Enoch Village look like child's play.

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Supplied SK with a few more beherits for his scary sword

The Skull Knight is perfectly capable of killing apostles on his own, it's not like he needed Guts' help to gather those Beherits. And we already saw that the Skull Knight is not able to hurt or kill Griffith... because the IOE won't let him. That's the only logical explanation why Griffith survived the Skull Knight's attack completely unharmed.
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Movies, TV, Books & Music / Re: What are you watching? (television thread)
« Last post by N7Paladin on January 08, 2017, 10:55:36 PM »
Thanks, I'll have to read that. I've already started re-watching it because I'm sure I missed a ton of little things my first time through, already I've picked up on a few things I didn't catch the first time.
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Movies, TV, Books & Music / Re: Movies you've recently watched
« Last post by Aazealh on January 08, 2017, 08:28:25 PM »
I believe my first film in theaters was The Land Before Time, which I am not ashamed of

Mine was Willow, and it was pretty damn cool. :badbone:
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Shootin' the Breeze / Re: Your most hated words
« Last post by Aazealh on January 08, 2017, 08:24:16 PM »
SJW
Beta Cuck
Alt-right
Echo chamber

I've gotten real sick and tired of hearing these all the time this past year.

Maybe you should hang out with a different crowd.
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Berserk Anime / Re: 2017 Berserk TV Series (Season 2)
« Last post by Aazealh on January 08, 2017, 08:22:42 PM »
The Falcon of the Millennium Empire arc

It's called the Millennium Falcon arc.
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Shootin' the Breeze / Re: Your most hated words
« Last post by N7Paladin on January 08, 2017, 05:49:00 PM »
SJW
Beta Cuck
Alt-right
Echo chamber

I've gotten real sick and tired of hearing these all the time this past year.
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