Episode 369

[Xenoskell]

Despite the glaring issues with the new episodes I'm still liking it.

 

[ApostleBob]

Some bold moves being made here, but the pacing and amount of time for the gravity of them is way off.
Puck evaporated off screen? The Gurus, volvapa, and Hanar evaporating and becoming essentially pointless? Even these things are unclear because of the way presented. I wish they would make more panels or do a page or two more to let this thing breath.

There is some great imagery, but the details are very sparse. At best we can guess what's happening and why.
Why would the destruction of a (presumable) Spirit Tree lesson elemental spirits in the corporeal world? What do the gnawers have to do with anything if they just dissolve after the tree sinkholes and everyone disappears anyway? Did Griffith just one-shot all the hope the island offered, including magic upgrades and answers, and instead leave Guts with his original companions plus mage students and Skull Knight

 

[Aazealh]

You made me laugh so hard on the last part haha, and I know it won't be close to miura's level on the execution part - I just want to know what he planned for the end for all those loose plot threads.

Well, you can rest assured that we'll at least get the broadest of strokes! As far as the nitty gritty goes, though... Better not hold your breath.

They did enter this story arc in the middle, Studio gaga might was cautious not to expand upon what kouji remembered because this story is really close to the Miura-canon and any small divertion can have drastic effect in the long run. A fresh new arc will allow them to plan the plot ahead and at least try creating more intricate nuanced dialouge. It might not be more faithful to berserk as Miura intended, but at least we might get a more coherent story. But again, just wishful thinking.

You know, I think everything they'll do will be close to the "Miura canon" going forward, so they won't necessarily have more leeway. Their motto when the project started was that they would only do things they knew about from Miura-sensei. And personally, I really don't want them to be taking more liberties than they are already. The dialogue in Berserk was nuanced before because Miura was writing it, not because there was just more of it. I feel like the more they improvise, the more compromised things will become.

Sorry, it doesn't translate well from my language, what I meant to say is that the story was too focused on progressing the plot and less on exploring the characters and actually building the world

Ah, well unfortunately I don't expect things to really get better in that department... If Miura was still with us, the story would have likely progressed at about the same "speed", but would have seamlessly incorporated character development as well. The problem is that Mori and the staff just don't know how the characters should act or react.

 

[LordYAM]

Just two people here have used the word "casual." That's a broad generalization, certainly. But you're similarly handwaving away all of the problems with the continuation by saying it's "not perfect."

So what did you think of:

• The anticlimactic, nearly off-page destruction of the gnawers (despite the dramatic tension last episode)
• Not showing key characters like Puck and Ivalera disappearing (can't say they ran out of room)
• Guts focusing on his inability to hit Griffith, and not "Oh shit, Casca was taken away by my enemy"
• The Gurus, Hanarr, Volvaba, etc. showing up just for one perfunctory panel instead of the major players they were set up to be
• The dissonance between Danan's explanation and the merging having brought the corporeal and ethereal worlds together

That's quite a few imperfections just in the past 17 pages.

They're definitely flaws but I still felt there were things to admire. The Art is better and I really liked the "darkest hour" feel. Guts really is at his lowest and it will be interesting to see him try to pick himself up, before likely going on the war path. I want to at least see how the story ends and I think that given what they needed to work with (having to start right before the climax, Mori having to work from memory of what Miura told him rather than any written notes or outline) they're doing a relatively decent job. Any continuation would have problem and I think that Mori and Studio Gaga would be able to do the best take (though how good it is is up in the air.)

 

[Griffith]

At the end of the episode there's a number if you want to send a feedback to Hakusensha...so at least there's a way to give solid criticism.

Though I don't know if they'll take something in consideration and change some bits of the story.

The prospect gives me chills. Like, be careful what you wish for. What are they going to do? Make up more details? Punch it up? No thank you. Do it as faithfully and quickly as possible before Mori starts "remembering" additional stuff.

There was a real sense of devastation and despair in the aftermath

No one is gonna disagree with you there!

I can't help but feel that there's a lot of snobbery from many of the people dismissing it. It's not perfect, but to say that only "casuals" can like it is annoying as hell.

Well, I say let's not blame any of the fanbase for trying to make sense or process this, because ultimately this is Hakusensha's mess to sort out, not ours. You or I didn't create this dissonance everyone is experiencing to some degree. It's a weird thing they're doing, simultaneously a very daring, radical premise to continue the manga like the freaking auteur behind it didn't die, and yet purportedly trying to be so very respectful and conservative in the execution... it might be the best they can do, but it's a very unnatural way to unfold a story. It's a half-measure between not doing it at all or just providing a summary, and giving another dynamic author Miura's notes and letting them run with it as a non-canon continuation. Speaking of which...

You know, I think everything they'll do will be close to the "Miura canon" going forward, so they won't necessarily have more leeway. Their motto when the project started was that they would only do things they knew about from Miura-sensei.

I think it's actually better not think of this in terms of "Miura canon" because that's simply not possible, let alone realistic, at this point, at best (at worst it's a lie). I think you hit on the perfect word before: apocryphal. This is the Apocrypha of Berserk, basically. And I'm pretty sure most of the people around here are Berserk Protestants as far as this is concerned! I think it can still be enlightening reading though in the broad strokes as you say, but I'm not going to be deeply studying or quoting the scriptures.

 

[Aazealh]

Any continuation would have problem and I think that Mori and Studio Gaga would be able to do the best take (though how good it is is up in the air.)

I don't think it's up in the air anymore.

I think it's actually better not think of this in terms of "Miura canon" because that's simply not possible, let alone realistic, at this point, at best (at worst it's a lie). I think you hit on the perfect word before: apocryphal. This is the Apocrypha of Berserk, basically. And I'm pretty sure most of the people around here are Berserk Protestants as far as this is concerned! I think it can still be enlightening reading though in the broad strokes as you say, but I'm not going to be deeply studying or quoting the scriptures.

You're right, I was just reusing cijhho123's expression, but as far as I'm concerned the "canon" stops at episode 364.

 

[Walter]

They're definitely flaws but I still felt there were things to admire.

Got it. You're sticking with just "flaws," for the things I listed. And such things won't get in your way, because:

I want to at least see how the story ends

So is basically anything they put out okay as long as you get an ending?

I think that given what they needed to work with (having to start right before the climax, Mori having to work from memory of what Miura told him rather than any written notes or outline) they're doing a relatively decent job.

They are too constrained for the attempt they are making. Transmitting Miura's remaining ideas is a noble cause. But choosing an episodic framework like the previous releases of Berserk was not the only option available, and it's been a mistake. It's the core of all the problems now and the ones to come.

 

[Sir Schraffl]

So many years of peace, puck comes back to the island and now it's gone.

 

[JJohn1]

I think that what seems to be dividing the fanbase is this:

Berserk right now might be a good manga. That is why the majority of the fanbase seems to be pretty happy with what they are getting. Seriously, few care as much as we do outside of this forum. Most are happy with what they are getting right now.

But the thing is that berserk was never just a good manga. It was an exceptional one, seriously. The reason I was enamored with this series was that everything was accounted for, to the very last minute detail (all the way from the art, to the story). Those who don't appreciate what we are getting right now, they don't simply because they are comparing Sufficience to Brilliance. It was a lost cause from the very moment the decision for a continuation was made.

I for one, simply remain curious for all the big events that I'm pretty sure will go according to Miura's thoughts, but couldn't care any less for the rest. Forget the details that breathed life to the story, they followed their creator.

 

[Odysseus]

I dunno if I'd call what we're getting right now "sufficient". Most popular manga you can think of right now have better pacing and conveyance of events than this has had. It's rushing through things and doing the bare minimum of characterization, which has left things feeling hollow and incoherent. More casual fans won't pick on the more nitty-gritty issues, but I feel like as this goes on the biggest shortcomings will become more apparent to everyone.

At this point, my best case scenario would have been something like this:

For the manga, the team just fully takes the reigns and owns the project, not staying so glued to just what Mori remembers but instead using that as an outline to build off of while extrapolating upon it to make a more "full" story. Drag in someone like Aaz to fact check everything lol. It'd be tantamount to fan fiction based on some ideas Miura had, but I feel like that'd make for a more pleasant reading experience than the half-measure we're getting.

Then, once that ends, Mori releases his summery of exactly what he remembered without any of the embellishing, so people like us here who only want the pure Miura material would have that and could disregard any of the nonsense Studio Gaga would add.

I know that's a controversial take and probably horribly unrealistic, though.

 

[Aazealh]

Berserk right now might be a good manga.

I think you'd be hard pressed to demonstrate that. I keep seeing people talk about the art, but a manga is much more than that, and this suffers from poor pacing, confusing story flow, lackluster dialogue and bad characterization. And that's without touching on the various inconsistencies. Like you said, people who don't care much are probably fine with it. And why wouldn't they be? It's not like they care all that much. But a passing interest and low standards don't make for good judges of quality.

 

[Imperivm97]

It's so weird that in all these episodes Guts still hasn't really said or thought anything more elaborate than grunts and short random / obvious observations, and it's so shocking I'm at a loss of words. It's also painful to see that Guts doesn't act like he should / would, as previously mentioned. How the hell will it continue if this is how they treat the protagonist?

Overall I feel that the art has taken a step back from last episode, there are some nice panels here and there (I particularly appreciate how faithful Puck looked in that full page and the mid-episode double page spread), but the visual storytelling is just extremely confusing and I can't make out what happens between pages if not panels. For instance, I can't understand if Guts stayed still this whole episode (with the ground changing by itself) or if he first walked up to up the surface and then on solid rock at the shore at end...
Maybe it's just me, but I really cannot process the entirety of page 5 and whatever the implication is for the rest of the episode: was SK at Guts' location (as I would understand from the bottom panel in the previous page) or was he with all the others? What connects the second and third panel of page 5, is that before and after SK used his sword to cut through space? The bottom panel shows this island surrounded by strange cloudy shapes (what seem to be a nuclear explosion on the left, a strange spiral and aurora borealis?) and is that thing at the right the "portal" (also seen at the top of the double page spread in page 8) SK opened to allow everyone from Elfhelm to be saved from destruction? But if that is a different island, why are there the people Roderick was trying to save? If this "new island" is still Elfhelm, what was the point of escaping and opening the "portal"? Yet, if this is still Elfhelm, why isn't Roderick's ship in sight? And wasn't Elfhelm sinking into the sea, so why is it rising now?
I swear that I'm not drunk nor on drugs, but the more I try to understand what's in front of my eyes, the more I feel like I am. Sorry for the confusion, but if anyone could explain this briefly I'd be very grateful.

If this is the consistent quality we'll keep getting in the future, I'd rather stop reading the new episodes now and check the summary of the rest of the serialization on Wikipedia in a few years, when all is said and done, to have in mind a more descriptive conclusion of the series than enduring the mess that every new episode brings.

 

[AStrugglerNamedSlickBack]

This isn’t a story. It’s key moments/highlights. As Mori said, he will not flesh things out, and he will try as much as possible to only add what Miura talked to him about.

With that said, they are meandering. They need to move this faster if this is to be the case and stop trying to pace this like there’s still a full story here. These are just plot points, and Mori and Co. should try to make that clearer. That way the complaints would be a lot less I believe.

 

[Kaine]

This isn’t a story. It’s key moments/highlights. As Mori said, he will not flesh things out, and he will try as much as possible to only add what Miura talked to him about.

With that said, they are meandering. They need to move this faster if this is to be the case and stop trying to pace this like there’s still a full story here. There are plot points, and Mori and Co. should try to make that clearer. That way the complaints would be a lot less I believe.

The issue Isn't really the fact that they are moving fast.... It's that the story they are telling doesn't add up with what Miura established before

 

[triplelife]

My first reply was pithy and memey, but I'll try to better express why this continuation has bummed me out.

A lot of people point out the art, it's definitely the most striking downgrade. And as much as the art is important to me, I think I could deal with a lower quality of art, worse paneling, etc., if it was at least consistent. Obviously I don't know exactly how Studio Gaga has organized itself for this project, but it's disorienting that it seems like the artists are rotating pages. It would be nice if they would have one guy go over and "unify" the style before publishing it. While it's impossible for anyone to live up to Miura's standard, it seems like the art wasn't a priority, just a means to an end.

And if the art is taking a backseat to giving the fans a satisfying conclusion to the story, oof. After all the character development, Guts realizing that his love for Casca is more important than his desire for revenge, the fact that Guts seems to be more focused on the fact that he can't kill Griffith than that Griffith has kidnapped Casca is pretty jarring. It's fitting for Guts to temporarily lose himself in the moment, but we haven't seen him say or think anything about Casca at all. He's spent the last three episodes crying, and you'd like to think it was because Casca was taken, but the internal monologue points in the other direction. It's impossible to tell what the other characters are doing from one episode to the next, they just seem to jump wherever they need to be for the plot to move forward, although Roderick and Isidro have gotten some decent characterization. I have absolutely no idea why Danan is taking all the astral creatures to another layer of reality or how it's even possible given that the layers were supposedly merged. And with Danan gone, we're probably not going to get any answers. Things are just happening.

I honestly wanted to like this, but it just sucks and it sucks even more because I feel like Mori and Studio Gaga are capable of so much better than this.

 

[Alonne]

There is some great imagery, but the details are very sparse. At best we can guess what's happening and why.
Why would the destruction of a (presumable) Spirit Tree lesson elemental spirits in the corporeal world?

If i'm not mistaken flora explain that the spirit trees are in like a different dimension (astral realm), so when the tree die the conecction between the astral and physical plane gets cut, now this could explain why the astral creatures dissapeared but since griffith merged the astral and physical world i dont see why this would cause the spirits to dissapper.

I think you'd be hard pressed to demonstrate that. I keep seeing people talk about the art, but a manga is much more than that, and this suffers from poor pacing, confusing story flow, lackluster dialogue and bad characterization. And that's without touching on the various inconsistencies. Like you said, people who don't care much are probably fine with it. And why wouldn't they be? It's not like they care all that much. But a passing interest and low standards don't make for good judges of quality.

And this is why art value is tied peoples preferences and feelings, one person may like a piece of art ad think is the best thing in the world while other may not, it depends on what you value the most.

That being said can we please stop arguing each other about who's right or wrong and talk about the chapter and were the history is going?

 

[AStrugglerNamedSlickBack]

The issue Isn't really the fact that they are moving fast.... Is the fact the story they are telling doesn't add up with what Miura established before

How do we know the actual plot holes if Mori doesn’t have the details? I’m guessing he got something along the lines of Guts can’t touch Griffith, then Casca is kidnapped and the island breaks apart etc. Maybe even the Berserker not working was part of Miura’s plan, but Mori got no details, so he’ll just draw things and offer no explanation. And that’s my point, if it’s just highlights anyway, I think (I could be wrong) they could’ve made it more streamlined and obvious with a different format.

As is, nothing changes, we still have to draw our own head-canon.

 

[Lawliet]

Is there even a point to using spoiler tags for this stuff? It's like lowering the toilet lid over a pile of shit. (Apologies for the revolting comparison).

Guts' first thought shown to us is not about Casca but how he couldn't attack Griffith. That on its own says a lot.

I don't have the motivation to type any more than that...Meh.

 

[Draculoid]

I don't have much to add. I was interested in the mystery of the ooze and where things were going with this climax but have yet again been let down with the handing and execution. This may be the most deflated I've felt after reading a NuBerserk episode.

The end of the episode with everyone losing their corporeal forms...I mean... AT LEAST they TRIED at an emotional moment with Isma. But I swear to God, if Puck was off screened or maybe even worse, was meant to be that particle effect on the base of Guts sword, a cardinal sin has been committed. Like, it's nice and all Isma got a little scene, but Puck has been a mainstay since the beginning. Even NuBerserk seems to understand this and has been showcasing his Ass quite a bit for reacting to events, more so than I think even Miura had been recently (This extends to the promotional coloured art). I'm going to pray that he is still around come the next episode.

 

[Walter]

The bottom panel shows this island surrounded by strange cloudy shapes (what seem to be a nuclear explosion on the left, a strange spiral and aurora borealis?) and is that thing at the right the "portal" (also seen at the top of the double page spread in page 8) SK opened to allow everyone from Elfhelm to be saved from destruction?

That explosion you're seeing is actually the 4 Elemental Kings barrier (remember that thing?). It's dissolving the remaining gnawers, and the ocean took care of the rest. There is no portal.

I have absolutely no idea why Dadan is taking all the astral creatures to another layer of reality or how it's even possible given that the layers were supposedly merged.

Danan likely didn't initiate the disappearance of the elves, though that was also my initial assumption. The running theory is that the tree's destruction is what caused elves to disappear. Like what happened with Chich, though what happened in this episode is far more wild and unexpected because Chich was specifically an elf associated with a flower. Maybe it has to do with Danan in particular (like, was she the one keeping everyone together in that way, and if her power fails, then they can't exist there anymore?). Maybe there will be some light shed on it in the next episode, but no easy answers are readily available right now.

Is there even a point to using spoiler tags for this stuff?

No, not after the day of its release, which is close to 12 hours ago now.

If i'm not mistaken flora explain that the spirit trees are in like a different dimension (astral realm), so when the tree die the conecction between the astral and physical plane gets cut, now this could explain why the astral creatures dissapeared but since griffith merged the astral and physical world i dont see why this would cause the spirits to dissapper.

I do see the logic here, but what happened in this episode is drastically different from the burning of Flora's forest of spirit trees. Flora says that once the tree is burned, the domain will close. But in this new scenario, the island is still there, it's just sunken. But the beings who inhabited it vanished.

And certainly the merging of the worlds renders a lot of this... very confusing. Because Skellig was always in the interstice, the shallow portion of the ethereal world. The destruction of the tree would have meant it can't exist in the corporeal world, sure. But there's no longer any substantive difference between the worlds anymore, as far as we've been told. That's the whole point of Fantasia. So where'd they go? Deeper, I guess. But it's not like there were ever boundaries established for how deep Fantasia goes, so it's all a bit nonsensical.

I'm not questioning whether the elves would have vanished. But I feel like Miura would have established some of these things before playing the card of the elves vanishing, and it would have made much more impact. Instead what we have this a priori nonsense, we're trying to figure it out on the back end, and I'm fielding questions on Reddit of people understandably very confused about what the fuck just happened.

And this is why art value is tied peoples preferences and feelings, one person may like a piece of art ad think is the best thing in the world while other may not, it depends on what you value the most.

That being said can we please stop arguing each other about who's right or wrong and talk about the chapter and were the history is going?

Sorry, but you don't get to dictate the terms of conversation here.

 

[LordYAM]

Is there even a point to using spoiler tags for this stuff? It's like lowering the toilet lid over a pile of shit. (Apologies for the revolting comparison).

Guts' first thought shown to us is not about Casca but how he couldn't attack Griffith. That on its own says a lot.

I don't have the motivation to type any more than that...Meh.

It's largely done to show how utterly powerless he feels; even now he can't protect those he cares for.

 

[Walter]

It's largely done to show how utterly powerless he feels; even now he can't protect those he cares for.

If that's why it was "largely done," then it largely missed the mark. They could have had Guts say anything. They went with that.

Btw guys, has Guts really moved at all in the past 2.5 episodes?

(367) After the swing, he got jostled a bit and fell. (368) Then we see him in what appears to be a crevice (but apparently not?) with the ooze dudes talking to him (never capitalized on), and later he looks up and reaches out for Casca. And now (369) he's leaning on the DS for the full sequence.

Maybe he'll just stay there?

 

[Odysseus]

Guts lives there forever now. Isidro is now the main character, out to avenge the loss of his friend Isma by going after Griffith instead of Guts. Join us in November for the beginning of the "Monkey Swordsman" arc.

 

[Walter]

Guts lives there forever now. Isidro is now the main character, out to avenge the loss of his friend Isma by going after Griffith instead of Guts. Join us in November for the beginning of the "Monkey Swordsman" arc.

Just change the name of the series, and I'm down with it 100%.

As the last elf fades, the time displacement effect hits the group in full force. Inexplicably, Isidro grows a beard and ages 10 years, muscles bulging.

They took... his pal. They took.... his teacher. They took... his lady friend. And now... the Magma Monkey is ready to take THEM out.

He walks up to the comatose Guts. "I need your clothes. Your boots. And your dragon slayer."

 

[Odysseus]

Just change the name of the series, and I'm down with it 100%.

The series shall be rechristened as "Ape Shit".