Episode 360

[RaffoBaffo]

You are right, when Flora shows the berserker armor to SK, he's already without that collar spike, see:

Spoiler: Image

He trow it at Slan.

BTW, that Daemon things is pretty interestig.
I love me some Greek Mythology.
[Also, thinking about a creature between Divine and Human, the mid fly to Duraki]

 

[Walter]

You are right, when Flora shows the berserker armor to SK, he's already without that collar spike, see:

Yes, but... it's restored when we see him again in v28 on the beach (very shortly after), hence the discussion others were having above.

All it implies is that SK has seen some action since we last saw him. That's not a big surprise, and I don't think there's much more that needs to be said about it.

And it might be as recently as between episodes 359 and 360, because at the end of 359 it seems to be intact (hard to be 100% positive since it's mostly hidden).

Oh... wow, good catch! Hard to tell for certain with that branch in the way in 359, but if so, that was presumably like, an hour ago. But I solved it guys, he had been trying to get Guts' attention in the forest in 359.

 

[Aazealh]

That piece of armor was broken during the Slan/Flora part, fine during the encounter by the Sea and the Fantasi fuckup, and now broken again.

Just a random info.

Which means he's used it again recently, like I said.

That's very interesting, I wonder what he would have to fight in Elfhelm...

Indeed. Something I was telling Walter earlier: Guts being far away from the group makes for an interesting situation if some kind of danger were to arise.

 

[Oburi]

Oh... Is this a thing that has been bothering people for a while or something?
Can he regenerate his Bonerangs? (That sounded bad )

No that was my fault lol. I thought you were referreing to something else. Good catch man.

 

[Atocas]

I really like the callback to the old times with Guts training his overhead sword swings, this time as a form of escapism. Generally the Guts and Casca panels once again hit pretty hard in this episode.

Farnese getting a witch outfit and looking kinda embarrassed and out of place inbetween all the younger witches was pretty cute. I wonder if she keeps it, I wouldn't mind. Schierke performing more "dangerous" magic certainly caught the attention of Morda, I sense a little adventure coming up with these two if we have enough breathing room before something serious happens.

 

[Esper]

Then Gedflynn tells Schierke she might be interested in those who dwell in the deeper territories of the astral world, and who are called Daimons. They are between humans and spirits, and it's basically what Flora became in volume 27. The way it's described here is similar to the original Greek concept of former great humans becoming "guiding spirits".

Didn't Slug Count at the start of volume 2 call his slug he gave to Zondark "his daemon"? He did in Dark Horse translation, but I looked in my japanese volume and it says

我が分身

分身 - Jisho.org

jisho.org

Literally "my offspring". Oh well.

 

[Aazealh]

I really like the callback to the old times with Guts training his overhead sword swings, this time as a form of escapism.

Guts has used this type of exercise to reflect on things before, like in volume 5 when he's dwelling on Casca's words about his selfish behavior. It's indeed not a coincidence that Miura is using it again here. It's not really escapism though, more like working out to take one's mind off of things.

Farnese getting a witch outfit and looking kinda embarrassed and out of place inbetween all the younger witches was pretty cute. I wonder if she keeps it, I wouldn't mind. Schierke performing more "dangerous" magic certainly caught the attention of Morda, I sense a little adventure coming up with these two if we have enough breathing room before something serious happens.

I think Farnese will keep that outfit. As for Morda, I still think she will act as a kind of rival to Schierke. She's older, flaunts her goods while Schierke is in the awkward phase of adolescence, is cocky about her abilities and seems pretty reckless. She's basically the anti-Schierke and I think it will come down to a competition of sorts at some point that will allow Schierke to show just how good she is even among talented magic users. It would also help her become more confident.

Didn't Slug Count at the start of volume 2 call his slug he gave to Zondark "his daemon"? He did in Dark Horse translation, but I looked in my japanese volume and it says

Literally "my offspring". Oh well.

You answered your own question, but no, the Count doesn't call it a daemon in the original text, and it's not related in any way to the Daimons that are mentioned in this episode. Just one of many cases where Dark Horse mistranslated a line. Good catch though, I'm sure some people will be confused by this in the future unfortunately.

 

[TheWillOfT]

Overall i really like the episode and its general purpose of it. In episode 359, shortly before Farnese and Schierke guided Casca to try and meet Guts again, they initially wanted to go and study some magic, so seeing the natural progression of that and how they deal with Casca waking up from her nightmare was a nice start.

Before Elfhelm started i always wanted to see some downtime, be it for magic or other stuff (the DS potentially getting some work done by the dwarfs?), especially now that we know of the boys incoming arrival.

Seeing Serpico lurking in the background and reacting to Farnese also makes me wonder more about where he will find his place in the story, once she gains even more independence. Im getting way ahead now, but Serpico seemed to be a potential candidate for a tragic death that could affect the group, but i wonder how Farneses death would affect everyone? Especially a Serpico, it would force him to come out of his shell, and i don't think its a total impossibility, since we already have a witch in Schierke in the group.

The whole daimon concept is quite interesting, and Aaz speculated already, but this seems to be the gateway towards learning the existence of Skull Knight in his current body. Im not 100% sure yet, but you guys think we will move to Skull Knights backstory in his upcoming conversation with Guts?

The build up is certainly there. The mention of Gaiseric in 358, Griffiths goal of creating an empire, his first 1vs1 with Guts since the Golden Age and then his general ties to Elfhelm. Obviously the talk will most likely first of all reflect the current situation regarding Casca and the state of the world outside of Elfhelm. Regardless, even the smallest mention of Falconia being the city buried beneath the tower of rebirth, could lead Guts to asking Skull Knight, if he is Gaiseric, since he made that connection already back in volume 10.

Also, even though not here in this thread, the constant art talk on other places really is quite idiotic. We know that the style has been different since years now, and as always it will most likely change again. Besides that people should not take poor scans as the definitive output of quality for the series.

Here is an example comparing the Volume-Digital Episode-Actual Manuscript. As you can see the Volume and the Manuscript looks darker, and that has often more to to do with the actual ink used to print these pages. People need to relax, it's a natural result of switching mediums and still experimenting with them. Now for the style, thats another discussion for another day, because proportions regarding facial anatomy has definitely changed and softened, but like i said, those things always change with Miura, sometimes for the better or worse.

Oh... wow, good catch! Hard to tell for certain with that branch in the way in 359, but if so, that was presumably like, an hour ago. But I solved it guys, he had been trying to get Guts' attention in the forest in 359.

Now in retrospect, i always found it weird that the branch was placed there, but seeing the missing spike, it seems to be done intentionally. Wonder what exactly he encountered outside and if we will learn about it in their talk.

 

[Griffith]

Ok, so Raffo didn't come right out and say it, and Aaz preliminarily squashed it, but what if the collar spike is like Casca's disappearing, reappearing boots from vol 23? Just an inexplicable mistake that got through, like some poor assistant looked at the wrong Skully panel for reference and will now be seriously reprimanded.

I mean, I'm weighing out the unlikeliness of this against that of Skully getting into a serious enough fight to necessitate losing one between watching the gang in the woods and visiting Guts on the cliff, "Damn drakes around here, had to skullyrang one in the friggin' eyeball, swordsman! You know how long it takes for these babies to grow back!? "

Aaz:

Some speculation on my part: I wonder if the concept of Daimon might not be used later to explain how the Skull Knight can exist as a spirit in an empty suit of armor.

Super cool theory.

 

[Aazealh]

i wonder how Farneses death would affect everyone? Especially a Serpico, it would force him to come out of his shell, and i don't think its a total impossibility, since we already have a witch in Shierke in the group.

It strikes me as pretty unlikely that Farnese would die. Also, it's Schierke. You keep making the mistake.

Also, even though not here in this thread, the constant art talk on other places really is quite idiotic. We know that the style has been different since years now, and as always it will most likely change again. Besides that people should not take poor scans as the definitive output of quality for the series.

No one is talking about it here, so why are you starting a conversation on the topic?

Ok, so Raffo didn't come right out and say it, and Aaz preliminarily squashed it, but what if the collar spike is like Casca's disappearing, reappearing boots from vol 23?

An error 15 years in the making? That seems very unlikely.

 

[Griffith]

An error 15 years in the making? That seems very unlikely.

Right, in the example I gave the error was pages apart, not years, and was understandable given there were multiple literal and symbolic or allusory events being depicted. This would just be someone, presumably under Miura and other editors eyes, unintentionally drawing Skully wrong (though it happened prominently with Guts' white streak on the cover of volume 39)! I can see the case for this being the least likely explanation, plus it's always better just to follow the text, but unless Skully's next line is, "Look out behind you" because there's immediate danger as you postulate, it also doesn't quite follow yet. The good thing is we'll see though! I have no problem playing the doubting Thomas to make your logical explanation into another grand prognostication!

 

[Aazealh]

This would just be someone, presumably under Miura and other editors eyes, unintentionally drawing Skully wrong

To be clear, I doubt Miura let someone other than himself draw the Skull Knight in this episode, but even if we assume that, you seriously believe a mistake like that could occur without being caught in two different panels on a full page? And why would that mistake even take place? Because a picture of the Skull Knight from volume 26 was used as reference? This is completely unbelievable as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Victor]

(the DS potentially getting some work done by the dwarfs?)

The sword was indeed showing more signs of wear than usual on that last page. There is also the armor which might get addressed, so it's not impossible.

...i don't think its a total impossibility, since we already have a witch in Shierke in the group.

Farnese's purpose in the story is more complex than just being another magic user for the group, this is not an RPG.

Im not 100% sure yet, but you guys think we will move to Skull Knights backstory in his upcoming conversation with Guts?

I wouldn't count on a detailed reveal all at once, but we'll likely get at least something from him.

Edit: Concerning this missing spike, I'm having a hard time imagining what could have occurred in such a short time to prompt the Skull Knight to use it right after we see him hidden in the trees. I'm thinking the spike was used sometime before 359, but due to how the branch is covering most of his head Miura just went ahead and covered the broken end of the spike as well, to not make the drawing needlessly punctilious.

 

[TheWillOfT]

Farnese's purpose in the story is more complex than just being another magic user for the group, this is not an RPG.

That's quite self explanatory, but even then, Farneses purpose previously has been to mainly take care of Casca, and throughout all of this she obviously developed in many areas, including becoming a witch, which ultimately expands her role within the group. For now Casca still needs her, and Farnese also clings to the new burden she is carrying over from the Corridor of Dreams where she pressed the fragment of the thorned heart into her body. My main question is, what after Casca does confront the memories of the eclipse to the full extent and doesn't need Farnese anymore?

Thats assuming we get to a point where Casca won't be bound to her care, which leads us to why Farnese becoming more independent through magic was important to her character, but what i meant is that i don't think its a total impossibility for her to eventually die. For me personally it becomes a question of do we lose more than we win for the group in terms of interactions and a death of such a character could have a big impact on many inside the group. Which imo would be a yes, especially for the cases of Serpico, Azan, Roderick and Magnifico. Now do i truly think it will happen for sure? No, how the roles of the group and the interactions will change is yet to be seen, and how Serpico and Farnese will fit into all of this is what im really interested in.

 

[Aazealh]

My main question is, what after Casca does confront the memories of the eclipse to the full extent and doesn't need Farnese anymore?

This kind of utilitarian view of characters really misses the point. Like Victor said, this isn't an RPG.

 

[Beelzebud]

The build up is certainly there. The mention of Gaiseric in 358, Griffiths goal of creating an empire, his first 1vs1 with Guts since the Golden Age and then his general ties to Elfhelm. Obviously the talk will most likely first of all reflect the current situation regarding Casca and the state of the world outside of Elfhelm. Regardless, even the smallest mention of Falconia being the city buried beneath the tower of rebirth, could lead Guts to asking Skull Knight, if he is Gaiseric, since he made that connection already back in volume 10.

That episode makes me think that SK is very welcome on Elfhelm, since it's a island full of wizards (probably the most powerfull ones), i don't think that nobody sense him. And if SK is a close friend of Flora, and Gedfring look like a friend to her too, maybe SK is a friend of the island residents, or maybe some of them. All that makes me think that the island property of shortening of space time could be the key of Gaiseric(if SK is realy him) living for so long time, or maybe a combination of that whit a non corporeal body like this Daimon thing(i'm dont understand exactly what it is yet).

 

[Griffith]

This is completely unbelievable as far as I'm concerned.

Well, I won't quibble with any of your points because they indeed convincingly argue it's logically unbelievable (it would be worrisome =), but I wanted to acknowledge the possibility precisely because it could resemble a continuity or model error so it's worth addressing that and more plausible explanations. We'll probably get one in the next episode as you say; it would be funny if this now became a common display of damage to Skull Knight's armor, "Oh, that? Don't worry about that. Happens all the time, actually."

Still, we gotta save something for the podcast, so tune in everybody because I promise irrefutable proof of what exactly is going on here!

I'm thinking the spike was used sometime before 359, but due to how the branch is covering most of his head Miura just went ahead and covered the broken end of the spike as well, to not make the drawing needlessly punctilious.

I like this explanation most in fact because it gives a lot more wiggle room as to when, where and how he lost the spike.

 

[APassingPeddler]

Hello, hello! First time posting on this site. Since episode 360 is a current topic of conversation, it is a good time any to share my thoughts.

While the translation is still pending at the time of me writing this post, I have enjoyed reading through the episode. I found Farnese's new mage outfit quite adorable and satisfying, since it is a visual identifier of where her journey has taken her. I hope she keeps that outfit for the good duration of the series, if not up to the last stretch of the manga. I wonder what Magnifico and Roderick's reaction to Farnese's new look.

Seeing Farnese and Schierke display their magic for the other mages was nice, even if the episode did not feature any "new power" as teased by the preview.

We did get to look at the aftermath of Casca's panic attack with Casca still having trouble processing the events of the eclipse. I am curious about what Casca's said before Danann put her to sleep. Best to wait and pray for a translation.

Looking at the replies in the thead, I am intrigued by the concept of Daimon that is discussed in this episode and the implications that could serve to explain info about Flora and possibly SK.

The end of the episode has the classic SK and Guts meetup. If the backstory wasn't going to be discussed in the next episode, I hope that there would be something SK said that could be important to him like his connection to Elfhelm.

Or it could be that he wants to tell Guts, "I fucked up". Who knows.

 

[Aazealh]

That episode makes me think that SK is very welcome on Elfhelm

Was that ever in doubt? He's the one who told Guts that the Sovereign of the Flower Storm could cure Casca.

Hello, hello! First time posting on this site. Since episode 360 is a current topic of conversation, it is a good time any to share my thoughts.

Welcome!

We did get to look at the aftermath of Casca's panic attack with Casca still having trouble processing the events of the eclipse. I am curious about what Casca's said before Danann put her to sleep. Best to wait and pray for a translation.

I already posted about that yesterday. She's saying that Guts' face, voice... it all reminds of her that time, meaning the Eclipse. Also, it's "Danan", without that additional 'n' at the end.

The end of the episode has the classic SK and Guts meetup. If the backstory wasn't going to be discussed in the next episode, I hope that there would be something SK said that could be important to him like his connection to Elfhelm. Or it could be that he wants to tell Guts, "I fucked up". Who knows.

He has tons of things to talk about, starting with how the world has changed and what that means for the future. For all we know he'll actually reveal what the God Hand's end goal is or hint that Guts' son is the key to victory. Lots of possibilities.

 

[Oburi]

It's been mentioned before, but Flora's exit and current state has always had an air of Obi-Wan's sacrifice and continued existence. Unlike Obi-Wan's exposition dumps though, Flora has been relegated to only a few short but gloriously triumphant moments of action. Leave the exposition to the Skullknight and the action to Flora puh-lease! Wait, in this analogy Skullknight would be Yoda. But he uses a sword so it would have to be prequel Yoda with the baby lightsaber? Oh no I may have gone too far in some places...

Anyway, the point is this Daimon concept could be key to connecting with Flora on a more material level. Perhaps even her presence won't be so in passing now. With the world being as it is, and being on the island as they are, maybe Flora could come back in a big fucking way and remain a more reoccurring figure moving forward. That one brief moment between her and Skully remains one of the most tantalizing of the entire series. Typically for Berserk, it was over too soon. Could this be the payoff for what was hinted at so long ago? Or should we know better because this is Berserk after all?

 

[Aazealh]

Anyway, the point is this Daimon concept could be key to connecting with Flora on a more material level. Perhaps even her presence won't be so in passing now. With the world being as it is, and being on the island as they are, maybe Flora could come back in a big fucking way and remain a more reoccurring figure moving forward. That one brief moment between her and Skully remains one of the most tantalizing of the entire series. Typically for Berserk, it was over too soon. Could this be the payoff for what was hinted at so long ago? Or should we know better because this is Berserk after all?

I think the point of it was that yes, Flora could show up again in the future to aid the group if called upon by Schierke.
I wondered yesterday whether it could also relate to the Skull Knight, and people seem enticed by the idea, but that was just a thought and could turn out to not be the case at all. However Flora has definitely become a Daimon.

 

[Oburi]

I think the point of it was that yes, Flora could show up again in the future to aid the group if called upon by Schierke.

Right ... but I mean, like wtf that's INSANE! Are you even adequately hyped for this? Has this whole thread gone crazy! Am I the only one who gives a shit about how fucking awesome this is?

With the power Guts was able to unleash through her pupil, I can't fathom what kind a damage the Flora/ Skullknight combo could do.

 

[Aazealh]

Are you even adequately hyped for this?

Yes.

With the power Guts was able to unleash through her pupil, I can't fathom what kind a damage the Flora/ Skullknight combo could do.

You sound like you're talking about combining Bahamut Zero with Quadra Magic.

 

[Xenoskell]

I don't like where Berserk is going artwise.

Really,the art on this episode is one of the worst I've ever seen on this manga,it looks pretty wonky.

Spoiler: Possible Spoilers ahead

Firstly,there's a lot of inconsistency on characters faces.
On the same page,Caska have a nice,rounded form at her face,only go get into a awkward expression with pretty bad shapes after that.
Shierke's mouth is likewise,rounder,but sometimes they forget this and her mouth is completely straight.
And Guts,oh my god,he looks like a teenager right now,has no jaw and a baby like face...but on his last panel his jaw and overall is the same as before getting into Elfhelm.

Secondly,the face expressions are wonky.
Berserk is known for having very nice and different faces that expresses very well characters emotions in a lot of moments.
Remember Guts famous evil grin at the Conviction Arc,Griffith's frustration after Guts left the Band of the Hawk,and even Caska's heartwarm cry when she remembers Guts in the recent chapters.
Those where all nicely drawn expressions with not only the right proportions,shapes and anatomy,but also very creative choices for expressions.

But in this last chapter,the technique is poor and their expressions are very generic and repetitive (they even repeated the same panel on the same chapter).

Also,I think his asssistants doesn't know how to use the correct brushes.The art is too light,everything feels glossy and soft,it doesn't even look like Berserk most lighthearted moments where Miura often times omitted an huge amount of hatching and shadows to fill that purpose.

What the hell is going on?

I know some people will say "yes the artstyle is simpler right now because it's simpler to draw" but being simpler doesn't means that it has to be inconsistent and badly drawn.

It's such a shame because the previous episode had very nice faces and expressions,the battle between Caska and those "toys" was awesome,and I reallly liked the brushes they have used for the characters and scenarios.
Honestly that episode even looked like some of the other Arcs,Miura and his assistants truly nailed on that one.

I hope the art doesn't keeps going like episode 360.

Edit:

Making a edit here because the only good page was the last one : Guts doesn't looks like a teenager anymore ,and the overall technique here is great (though some of the brushes were strange,but that is more irrelevant I think).

 

[Aazealh]

the art on this episode is one of the worst I've ever seen on this manga

Looks fine to me. I'm sure someone somewhere might care about your art critique and commentary on brushes (no doubt backed by impressive credentials), but it sure isn't my case. As a reminder, these threads are meant to discuss the developments of the story, not provide an issue-by-issue, panel-by-panel commentary on the variations in Miura's art style.