Author Topic: Who sacrificed Gaiseric's capital and why?  (Read 16676 times)

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Offline C. Walken

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Re:Who sacrificed Gaiseric's capital and why?
« Reply #50 on: January 27, 2004, 11:46:01 AM »
i've read a few scanslations, & one claims that he was a blind man, while another claims he was a wiseman, &  another says he was a preist.  ???

Quote
Well, why would he keep a tortured body ? Did Griffith keep his ?
Well, are you implying that Void CHOSE to have his face look like this? If so, then it would seem pretty pointless.. unless he was indeed tortured.

As to why he would keep it. Not enough information to suggest anything.

Offline Olivier Hague

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Re:Who sacrificed Gaiseric's capital and why?
« Reply #51 on: January 27, 2004, 12:18:15 PM »
i've read a few scanslations, & one claims that he was a blind man, while another claims he was a wiseman, &  another says he was a preist.  ???
It's "wiseman".

Offline xechnao

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Re:Who sacrificed Gaiseric's capital and why?
« Reply #52 on: January 27, 2004, 12:40:36 PM »
Well, why would he keep a tortured body ? Did Griffith kept his ?

Maybe he wanted to keep it. Maybe the torture (if he suffered it) indeed had a special signification in his identity or status right now. Why Slann is naked??
I am not sure you are trying to make the same point or the opposite one.
Anyway I was thinking about torture. Griffith was tortured, Void and a wiseman was tortured,...maybe this torture thing indeed has something to do with Godhand. But maybe not.


As far as the "idea" of six fingers or six whatever...
well, I assume GodHands serve some-plan or somebody. This sixth might be the initial thing ,the core concept behind all this plan (maybe idea "itself"???)
Oh and in my humble opinion, "Void" is the one that seems more than a wiseman than any of them: certainly more than Slann ;D
and this not only for his looks but also the way he moves, talks and expresses himself.
But I can't say that he is the one tortured by Gaiserick. Maybe he was tortured indeed but I ain't sure he was the one tortured by Gaiserick again. Might be, might be not.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2004, 12:48:35 PM by xechnao »
And the game plays on people's backs and they don't even have a clue about it, wasting their energy because their attention is distracted by the rulers' game itself.
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Offline SexyCharlotte

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Re:Who sacrificed Gaiseric's capital and why?
« Reply #53 on: January 27, 2004, 02:00:25 PM »
Maybe he wanted to keep it. Maybe the torture (if he suffered it) indeed had a special signification in his identity or status right now. Why Slann is naked??
I am not sure you are trying to make the same point or the opposite one.
Anyway I was thinking about torture. Griffith was tortured, Void and a wiseman was tortured,...maybe this torture thing indeed has something to do with Godhand. But maybe not.


As far as the "idea" of six fingers or six whatever...
well, I assume GodHands serve some-plan or somebody. This sixth might be the initial thing ,the core concept behind all this plan (maybe idea "itself"???)
Oh and in my humble opinion, "Void" is the one that seems more than a wiseman than any of them: certainly more than Slann ;D
and this not only for his looks but also the way he moves, talks and expresses himself.
But I can't say that he is the one tortured by Gaiserick. Maybe he was tortured indeed but I ain't sure he was the one tortured by Gaiserick again. Might be, might be not.


My speculation was that Void was this wiseman, but originally, I thought that he and Slann may have betrayed Gaiseric somehow and that was why Void was being tortured. But then it occurred to me that if there's an occultation every 216 years, as Olivier pointed out, there's no way that Slann and Void could have become Godhand members within the same time frame.

As I pointed out a long time ago on this board, the Godhand members, especially Void and Ubik, closely resemble in some ways the Cenobites of Clive Barker's Hellraiser. I wondered if Void's Godhand form and appearance is partly due to his torture LOL...which must have been one hell of a painful ordeal. What determines then the Godhand's form? Was Slann naked when she made her sacrifice, thus this is why she is naked as a Godhand? Who knows.

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Offline Aazealh

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Re:Who sacrificed Gaiseric's capital and why?
« Reply #54 on: January 27, 2004, 02:18:52 PM »
Well, are you implying that Void CHOSE to have his face look like this? If so, then it would seem pretty pointless.. unless he was indeed tortured.

Yeah, but at the same time, what's the need for extra fingers ? I doubt him to play piano on his free time ::).

As to why he would keep it. Not enough information to suggest anything.

Exactly, and as far as we know, he could as well have asked for it. Who said he had the choice anyway ? People's wishes seem to be granted subjectively in the Berserk world...

I am not sure you are trying to make the same point or the opposite one.

Well, my point is just that there's not enough information to tell for sure.

Offline Shurikn

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Re:Who sacrificed Gaiseric's capital and why?
« Reply #55 on: January 27, 2004, 03:21:06 PM »
Supposedly, Miura said in an interview that there were six God Hands. Of course, that could mean a lot of things (maybe he designed six of them but eventually kept five for his manga, for example)... And even if there really is/was a God Hand we haven't seen yet, that wouldn't necessarily mean that there can be more than five God Hands at the same time.
Then again, Void has six fingers at each hand... Is it because he's a freak, or does that mean something?

EDIT:
This is what I believe to be a quote from that interview (published in a fanzine in 1994):
Q: God hand wa ima no member de zen'in desu ka.
Miura: God Hand wa mô ichimei. Iru...? Ita...?
Editor: U-n, ita, da na.

Thanks for the info Olivier ! Skull Knight is the the last one :P pfffhhehehe  No really, is it mentionned anywhere that the "God Hand" is "complete" ?

Is it possible to have a translation for that quote ? If you are too busy just forget it ;)
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Offline C. Walken

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Re:Who sacrificed Gaiseric's capital and why?
« Reply #56 on: January 27, 2004, 03:38:34 PM »
Yeah, but at the same time, what's the need for extra fingers ? I doubt him to play piano on his free time ::)
That has absolutely nothing to do with why his face is the way it is. I have no idea why he has 12 fingers. Yet, I can begin to grasp an idea of why his face looks the way it does. Albeit, out of a very small refrence of info, but a refrence nonetheless.

Quote
Exactly, and as far as we know, he could as well have asked for it. Who said he had the choice anyway ? People's wishes seem to be granted subjectively in the Berserk world...Well, my point is just that there's not enough information to tell for sure.

Griffith gets a choice in the lost chapter. I can only assume that Void & the other GH members had a similar encounter.

Offline xechnao

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Re:Who sacrificed Gaiseric's capital and why?
« Reply #57 on: January 27, 2004, 03:41:06 PM »
Yeah, but at the same time, what's the need for extra fingers ? I doubt him to play piano on his free time ::).
Well some people are also born with six fingers.
but originally, I thought that he and Slann may have betrayed Gaiseric somehow
Haven't you ever thought that Skullknight calls Slann like this for what she is?? Look how she has been treating Guts for God's sake: like the mother of all prostitutes.

Well with Guts she has been comporting like a prostitute and since skully was around and Guts friend she called her a prostitute: that's all ;D
And maybe Slann was also a prostitute by profession in real life.

But any way what all this could have to do with Gaiserick??
And the game plays on people's backs and they don't even have a clue about it, wasting their energy because their attention is distracted by the rulers' game itself.
Pay attention people. Watch your back!

Offline Aazealh

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Re:Who sacrificed Gaiseric's capital and why?
« Reply #58 on: January 27, 2004, 04:16:28 PM »
That has absolutely nothing to do with why his face is the way it is. I have no idea why he has 12 fingers.

I was referring to what you said about the pointlessness of choosing to get the face he has and that he could have got his additionnal fingers during his transmigration.

Griffith gets a choice in the lost chapter. I can only assume that Void & the other GH members had a similar encounter.

Griffith just asked for wings, and his crippled body got cured while his helmet apparently melted with him, along with other changes. Now look at the case of the Beherit-like apostle.

That's what I meant by their wishes being granted subjectively, it's not like they choose what will change and what won't.

Offline Shurikn

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Re:Who sacrificed Gaiseric's capital and why?
« Reply #59 on: January 28, 2004, 03:32:58 AM »
I was referring to what you said about the pointlessness of choosing to get the face he has and that he could have got his additionnal fingers during his transmigration.Griffith just asked for wings, and his crippled body got cured while his helmet apparently melted with him, along with other changes. Now look at the case of the Beherit-like apostle.

That's what I meant by their wishes being granted subjectively, it's not like they choose what will change and what won't.

Griffith's body got cured because he was injured and he had to be cured..., but i think he's still skinny has Femto. As you said, he only asked for wings so he got his wings but the way he was Idea had to do use his own "imagination" to complete the process right. Probably that a part of the personality is reflected in the transmigration also...
it's all speculation ;)
« Last Edit: January 28, 2004, 03:33:20 AM by Shurikn »
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Offline Aquedesin

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Re:Who sacrificed Gaiseric's capital and why?
« Reply #60 on: January 28, 2004, 11:29:49 AM »
Gosh :o ! 6 GHs?!? I like this especially since Hague pointed out that 216 is 6x6x6...

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Offline SexyCharlotte

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Re:Who sacrificed Gaiseric's capital and why?
« Reply #61 on: January 28, 2004, 11:38:32 PM »
Gosh :o ! 6 GHs?!? I like this especially since Hague pointed out that 216 is 6x6x6...

Not to mention three 6's together are 666. number of the beast ;)
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Offline roberto999

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Re:Who sacrificed Gaiseric's capital and why?
« Reply #62 on: January 28, 2004, 11:57:12 PM »
Not to mention three 6's together are 666. number of the beast ;)
Ooopss. Now that you mention it . I did write my number upside down when I registered here.
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« Last Edit: January 28, 2004, 11:58:20 PM by roberto999 »
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Offline Smith

Re:Who sacrificed Gaiseric's capital and why?
« Reply #63 on: January 29, 2004, 03:43:15 AM »
number of the beast ;)


I am stupid... wat is that  ???




Maybe five GH member plus Idea = 6???
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Offline Uriel

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Re:Who sacrificed Gaiseric's capital and why?
« Reply #64 on: January 29, 2004, 04:14:57 AM »
555 is the number of man, and 666 is the number of the beast. It symbolize the devil, because according to the bible it stands for the numbers inscribed on the head of the Anti-Christ when he/she appears at the time of Revelation.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2004, 04:16:25 AM by Uriel »

Offline Bill

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Re:Who sacrificed Gaiseric's capital and why?
« Reply #65 on: January 29, 2004, 05:44:00 AM »
Void is also the one who (to our knowledge) that marks all Sacrifices with the Brand when the Godhand are summoned.

This may be a obligation/duty done by him or perhaps acknowledgement of his position as leader.
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Offline SexyCharlotte

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Re:Who sacrificed Gaiseric's capital and why?
« Reply #66 on: January 29, 2004, 08:59:21 AM »
Void is also the one who (to our knowledge) that marks all Sacrifices with the Brand when the Godhand are summoned.

This may be a obligation/duty done by him or perhaps acknowledgement of his position as leader.

Good point. I believe he was the wise man being tortured, and I still stick to my personal theory that the 4/5 angels that destroyed the capital were not necessarily Godhand members but the elementals.
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Offline Bill

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Re:Who sacrificed Gaiseric's capital and why?
« Reply #67 on: January 29, 2004, 04:39:51 PM »
Good point. I believe he was the wise man being tortured, and

Most people agree that he was the wiseman, for now at least since there isn't much evidence to disprove otherwise. However, it just as possible that the Skullknight was the wiseman, thus 4 Godhands already existed from prior time.

Quote
I still stick to my personal theory that the 4/5 angels that destroyed the capital were not necessarily Godhand members but the elementals.

I haven't heard the full details of this theory but it certainly sounds interesting, and almost supports the possibility of Skully being the wiseman. In a previous chapter, I believe Flora calls Skully an "old friend." Since their both can be said to be extreme old, this can also mean that he befriended her when he called out to the heavens. But this theory is much more fragile than that of Void being the wiseman...
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but because they tell us dragons can be beaten.

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Offline xechnao

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Re:Who sacrificed Gaiseric's capital and why?
« Reply #68 on: January 29, 2004, 07:37:20 PM »
Most people agree that he was the wiseman, for now at least since there isn't much evidence to disprove otherwise. However, it just as possible that the Skullknight was the wiseman, thus 4 Godhands already existed from prior time.I haven't heard the full details of this theory but it certainly sounds interesting, and almost supports the possibility of Skully being the wiseman. In a previous chapter, I believe Flora calls Skully an "old friend." Since their both can be said to be extreme old, this can also mean that he befriended her when he called out to the heavens. But this theory is much more fragile than that of Void being the wiseman...

Well Skullknight is more of a knight than a wizeman. He is more of a fighter or warrior than a wizard or a monk. Saying Skullknight was Gaiserick makes more sense, though I don't even agry with that. But Skullknight being wiseman is a bit otopanuchi :)
And the game plays on people's backs and they don't even have a clue about it, wasting their energy because their attention is distracted by the rulers' game itself.
Pay attention people. Watch your back!

Offline SexyCharlotte

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Re:Who sacrificed Gaiseric's capital and why?
« Reply #69 on: January 29, 2004, 07:46:23 PM »
Well Skullknight is more of a knight than a wizeman. He is more of a fighter or warrior than a wizard or a monk. Saying Skullknight was Gaiserick makes more sense, though I don't even agry with that. But Skullknight being wiseman is a bit otopanuchi :)

Who then do you believe Skullknight was? If you don't think he is Gaiseric then who?
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Offline xechnao

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Re:Who sacrificed Gaiseric's capital and why?
« Reply #70 on: January 29, 2004, 07:51:54 PM »
Who then do you believe Skullknight was? If you don't think he is Gaiseric then who?
He is the lone ranger...

Anyway Ganishka fights Griffith, and if Gaiserick was Skullknight there is a connection among them as Skullknight fights Godhand. But still I am not convined.
Well, if the legends of Gaiserick being ruthless are true I don't think they match him at least as he is now. If he was Gaiserick, he was changed a lot (something like Darth Vader but on the contrary of his career) ;D
Anyway Ganishka is an apostle but Skullknight, I don't think he is.
Could he be somebody sacrificed like Guts?
If he is sacrificed he is no more living (evil spirits weren't going after him) or he's not been sacrificed.Except*
Anyway he is more something like a spirit(than living) as Puck said.
He might have used a magic armour like the one Guts did. *Could this mean that he died inside that armour and his spirit was bound inside by a talsiman similar of the one of Flora's? Maybe an elf gave his essence for this "miracle" to happen as a spirit, like Guts baby gave his essence for Griffith to reborn.
It could be Gaiserick yes, but not the ruthless conqueror. It is more like somebody seeking revenge.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2004, 08:18:09 PM by xechnao »
And the game plays on people's backs and they don't even have a clue about it, wasting their energy because their attention is distracted by the rulers' game itself.
Pay attention people. Watch your back!

Offline Shurikn

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Re:Who sacrificed Gaiseric's capital and why?
« Reply #71 on: January 30, 2004, 02:59:42 AM »
Most people agree that he was the wiseman, for now at least since there isn't much evidence to disprove otherwise.

We can agree with that.. but like Olivier might say, we have no proof so it's just speculation again :P hehehe
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Offline Smith

Re:Who sacrificed Gaiseric's capital and why?
« Reply #72 on: January 30, 2004, 03:34:02 AM »
I suddenly had this strange idea... could Flora summon the four kings/elementals but was possessed and in end it destroyed everything?



Weird but seeing how Schierke can summon the four of them i sure Flora will know also... Perhap she regret and thus try to save as much ppl as she can by helping them out...


Ok i was a bit too much... i still take it as the wiseman who was the culprit!  ;D
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Offline SexyCharlotte

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Re:Who sacrificed Gaiseric's capital and why?
« Reply #73 on: January 30, 2004, 04:25:16 AM »

It could be Gaiserick yes, but not the ruthless conqueror. It is more like somebody seeking revenge.

When he was human he was a ruthless conquerer, as SK he's got a big grudge against the Godhand.

Nothing much was known about Gaiseric...in the manga it says no one knew where he came from or what his origins were. Likewise, a lot of what SK is about is up to speculation as well, such as his relationship with Flora, Slann, etc.


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Offline xechnao

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Re:Who sacrificed Gaiseric's capital and why?
« Reply #74 on: January 30, 2004, 01:06:13 PM »
When he was human he was a ruthless conquerer, as SK he's got a big grudge against the Godhand.

Nothing much was known about Gaiseric...in the manga it says no one knew where he came from or what his origins were. Likewise, a lot of what SK is about is up to speculation as well, such as his relationship with Flora, Slann, etc.




Gaiserick was seen as one leading armies, commanding and controlling. Skullknight it is not. Do you think he could be the same and change so much? Griffith, became Femto and Griffith again and he didn't change that much his ways. Even if Skullknight was Gaiserick he wouldn't be the same person. That's what I am talking about.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2004, 01:50:08 PM by xechnao »
And the game plays on people's backs and they don't even have a clue about it, wasting their energy because their attention is distracted by the rulers' game itself.
Pay attention people. Watch your back!