Episode 277

[Malachai]

By aaz*will figure out how to do real quotes later*:

ay, so I think it's definitely plausible that Griffith or someone from his army could hear about it. Besides Zodd has seen them so he already knows they've been involved.

*disappointed sigh* yeahhh you're right...

I guess i was just hoping for some more...positive publicity for the ol'guy Gutsman. After all, he's been hunted in the past by HICKS for fear of him being the rumored 'dark hawk'. To have news of a mysterious swordsmen saving the nobles in Vritannis reach say, the Pope...

Anyway, on to the Dragonslayer. I have to agree with Aaz and CnC that it's not nearly as powerful as all of this hype. As for a sword that is powerful enough to hurt the God Hand...well, if anyone has it, it's Skully.

I do think it's interesting that the Dragon Slayer has picked up this ability to 'disturb'(minorly?) the astral world.

So by going with what the Sword of Resonance is, and what Guts has primarily been killing/slaughtering/dismembering, could it be that with each apostle killed by the Dragon Slayer, part of the Beherit's ability to 'open up the realms' is imparted to it?

I guess what i'm saying is...if guts killed enough apostles, would he end up with some like the SoR?

*end hopeful speculation*
*awaits dream-crushing*

 

[Griffith]

I don't think the DS is being overestimated; it defeated Ganishka however much one wants to argue about just how hurt he is or not, and the same with Slan. So, Guts has already shown he can repel a God Hand with one strike, and send Ganishka's magic bags packing (and he sure wasn't happy about). I think deep down we all know these events will keep building towards an obvious conclusion; not to look too far ahead and spoil the ending, or dispel Guts' underdog appeal, but I'm pretty sure he's eventually going to beat all these guys with some help from his friends (Skully and his vortex blade could sure come in handy).

Anyway, so let's be cool and not act too shocked when it happens. =)

 

[yota821]

(Skully and his vortex blade could sure come in handy).

It's T3H SW0RD 0F REZZ0NANSSS!!!!

 

[Abstraction]

I think it was bad ass how they teamed up to beat a greater foe.

But in a subliminal sort of way... Guts is still helping Griffith. chills* eww just got the shivers.

I'm sure Guts wasn't thinking about that at the time, but it's still what happened.

 

[Aazealh]

I guess i was just hoping for some more...positive publicity for the ol'guy Gutsman. After all, he's been hunted in the past by HICKS for fear of him being the rumored 'dark hawk'. To have news of a mysterious swordsmen saving the nobles in Vritannis reach say, the Pope...

Well that's the past. Farnese got reprimanded at the time for her obsession with the Black Swordsman, and it's not like the Holy See higher ups where always convinced he was the Falcon of Darkness. And now the one that tracked him actually accompanies him... Besides, they've got other priorities, namely the Kushan invasion.

Anyway, on to the Dragonslayer. I have to agree with Aaz and CnC that it's not nearly as powerful as all of this hype.

Don't go from one extreme to another though. Like Griffith said, the DS is quite something. And we can all see its potential right now. It's just that it's not the God Hand BANE yet, for now it's only able to hurt astral creatures/whatever to some moderate extent. However there's no doubt that it won't always be so and that one day this extent will be fearsome.

I do think it's interesting that the Dragon Slayer has picked up this ability to 'disturb'(minorly?) the astral world.

Not disturb, it just exists in there, so it can hurt what also does. A normal sword which is only present in the corporeal world couldn't do that.

So by going with what the Sword of Resonance is, and what Guts has primarily been killing/slaughtering/dismembering, could it be that with each apostle killed by the Dragon Slayer, part of the Beherit's ability to 'open up the realms' is imparted to it?

Ok before replying to your question, yota821 is right, the Sword of Resonance thing is tired. It's not a good name. Just call it the Beherit sword or Sword of Beherits or whatever. Anyway, it has nothing to do with the DS. Both work completely differently. The DS was imbued with astral "properties" (vague on purpose) because Guts killed thousands of astral beings with it. What SK does when he uses the Yobimizu no Tsurugi is that he covers his sword with melted beherits. As you can see there's quite a huge difference here. So in short no, the DS won't acquire this kind of power, at least not without undergoing the same treatment.

But in a subliminal sort of way... Guts is still helping Griffith. chills* eww just got the shivers.

Well, he mostly helped himself. Ganishka was planning to kill him so even if it also served Griffith's interests, Guts primarily saved his group. Because even if they had managed to get on Roderick's ship, Ganishka could have noticed them and burned their ship down in-between two apostle zapping sessions.

 

[Death Can Wait]

I don't think Guts was helping Griffith at all as Aazealth said (from what I gather) Guts was just taking out his own obstacle at the time (and used Zodd for the matter, not asking for his help). Is it just me, or is Griffith not too far behind? I Don't know what to expect in the next EPISODE, but I wouldn't be too surprised if Griffith did show up (I doubt he will meet guts)

 

[Exegy]

If anything I think Guts considers Zodd as the ultimate monster, and maybe even as his worst enemy apart from Griffith (and the God Hand?). He's even had nightmares about him.

I agree that Guts has thought so for some time, but I also think that his perception has undergone subtle changes, some of which are made more clear in the last two episodes. Zodd's humbling before Ganishka, for example, leaves a major impression upon Guts, almost as if he were seeing the defeat of his own akogare no hito (well, in this case, akogare no bakemono). The original impression of an "ultimate monster" still remains, undoubtedly, because Zodd did have that much of an impact on Guts, but I believe that there is now added room for a sense of recognition between the two. The proximity brought about by their current situation highlights some of the parallels between man and monster; by the end of the current episode, they are two warriors working to defeat a common enemy. It's on the level of a warrior that I feel Guts recognizes and even respects Zodd, and vice versa, although neither can accept the other due to the fundamental difference in their natures. And yet there are those similarities between them that hint at a closer resemblance in the path from man to monster. I do not think I can say "continuum" here except in the most figurative sense; literally, there is a very sharp distinction between what is human and what is apostle, or monster, and thus Guts and Zodd are still very much absolute enemies. Yet Sonja's words do seem to support a more figurative reading, and that's why I mentioned them in regard to a somewhat "humanistic" portrayal of Zodd (not that we haven't seen a "monstrous" Guts before).

As for other matters, I wholly agree with you on the fact that there is no indication Griffith gave any sort of orders to Zodd. I should indeed give more credit to Zodd for initiative. After all, it's not like he's just a brute
And it's not as if Sonja could not have had some further role in whatever plans Griffith and his generals were making. We will probably find out more soon enough, so I'll try not to make too many assumptions in the meantime.

 

[Rhombaad]

Afterall, Griffith may not have expected Ganishka to show himself until the Neo Hawks began destroying the Kushan invaders (although with Sonia at his side, he certainly had the ability to know). As Exegy said...

As for other matters, I wholly agree with you on the fact that there is no indication Griffith gave any sort of orders to Zodd. I should indeed give more credit to Zodd for initiative.

...Zodd may have just been taking the initiative once he saw Ganishka was present. After all, aside from the other flying Apostles, Zodd was in the area and had the ability to get to Ganishka quickly (which many of the land-based Apostles could not do). It's too hard to say with the lack of information, but I certainly think it's possible.

 

[CnC]

I doubt griffith didnt expect it. Its unlike him to not consider all possible factors.

 

[Aazealh]

I don't think Guts was helping Griffith at all

Well he did, but indirectly. Like I said, it's just that he was mostly helping himself by doing that.

Is it just me, or is Griffith not too far behind?

He's in the vicinity.

Zodd's humbling before Ganishka, for example, leaves a major impression upon Guts, almost as if he were seeing the defeat of his own akogare no hito (well, in this case, akogare no bakemono).

Yeah, Guts witnessed the "ultimate monster" he's been considering as his "strongest" opponent (and maybe the one by which he judges all other opponents?) get defeated. However that doesn't really change anything to what I said, or to his perception of Zodd himself. And I don't think it'd be correct to consider that Guts yearns to fight Zodd in the way Zodd himself does, no matter how you'd translate the word contextually. Their goals and interests are very different in spite of their apparent similarity. Zodd, for one, is jaded after over 300 years of fighting.

I believe that there is now added room for a sense of recognition between the two.

That's nothing new, I think that recognition has been there for a while. And we've certainly profusely talked about it before these events. This episode just reinforced their "relationship" as we knew it, only this time they had to collaborate against a mightier foe. It adds a touch of camaraderie to the event, but I don't think it brings any new light on the way they regard each other and have been so far. What happened might have an incidence (even small) on it in the future, though.

Yet Sonja's words do seem to support a more figurative reading, and that's why I mentioned them in regard to a somewhat "humanistic" portrayal of Zodd (not that we haven't seen a "monstrous" Guts before).

I don't think Sonia's riddle supports anything in particular. I mean, it's fairly easy to get for the readers.

To fight again against the sword which cut you before
Or to use it as a weapon
Is it madness or will
Is he a beast or a warrior
So will wonder the other one

It's basically "Is he a madman killing senselessly, or a warrior able to be reasoned with? Will you fight together, or against each other?" It has to do with their team-up, I don't see how it could be meant to depict Zodd as a humanist. And once again, it's not like we've never seen the more "human" side of Zodd before. If anything, his interaction with Sonia, and more precisely his lack of grumpiness, is what is making him appear as more civilized than one could think he is by seeing him on the battlefield.

Sonja

Her name's written Sonia, you know (and that's addressed to everybody). We had the confirmation of its spelling a while back already. I would prefer not to have to make the forum autocorrect it.

 

[nightfly]

Very nice episode... Zodd seems to be KO now... it's the first time!

 

[CnC]

Very nice episode... Zodd seems to be KO now... it's the first time!

well, I think he was (albeit briefly) unconscious at the beginning of the episode as well. I think we're likely to see him exhausted rather than knocked out.
Either way I don't think guts and him will start fighting, besides the usual verbal banter.

 

[Abstraction]

Well he did, but indirectly.

That's the word I was looking for.

 

[HawaiianStallion]

My question now is... WHEN WILL AZAN show himself??? My prediction that he'd jump up drunk out of a boat and some how blow Ganishka away has not come to pass... tsk/

 

[Exegy]

I don't see how it could be meant to depict Zodd as a humanist.

Hmm. Well, I do not recall labeling Zodd himself a humanist, but I understand your meaning here. I also understand that the akogare no bakemono comparison, however facetiously made, implies an equivalence in the relationship that does not exist. Although Guts might place Zodd in a category apart from other apostles, that does not mean he "yearns" to settle the score between them or any such thing. At this point, I am sure he just wants to get on the boat already, and he will waste no time with Zodd if he sees the opportunity to do so arise, not that I think Zodd is going to press the issue. To each his own concerns: Guts will want to get away with his nakama, and Zodd may as yet have more to do on the battlefield. After all, events in Vritannis might be far from over....

PS. I will not make the same mistake with Sonia's name again. Sorry!

 

[#1BAMF Guts]

my opnion (not that anybody cares lol) on the DS is that it has more powers than it looks...i mean theres been some hints that the DS is not a normal weapon (besides it being HUGE and physically impossible for a normal human to wield)

when shericke (sp? lol sorry) offered guts the lightning axe he turned it down saying that he wanted to fight with a weapon that he was already used to thats the first hint.

the second "hint" is that somewhere in the manga it says that the DS started to have a strange deadly or black aura (something like that) and that it wasn't a normal weapon, it was something to that extent.

and the third "hint" and more obvious hint that everybody already knows about is that from killing so many etheral beings the sword has a level of "magic" i guess and can hurt etheral beings unlike a normal sword (ex: gashinka (sp?))

so yea....that's why i think that the DS is going to have SOME kind of important use in the future of this manga to kill the god hand or other more powerful etheral beings, or the sword might be able to transform like SK's and have a badass power like with a swing of the DS it sends everybody into a black hole or has a cutting range of miles O_O...well yea lets leave it to kentarou....

and the guts teaming up with zodd is something i can't see doubt a lot that's going to happen becuz i think guts will eventually have his duel with zodd to see who is better and eventually guts will win and thats not going to happen while they're best buddies unless zodd betrays him or something.

 

[Malachai]

offered guts the lightning axe he turned it down

i thought guts was offered some sort of earth elemental ax? Was i wrong? (definately not the first time that has happened)

Anyway, at the parting of and would Guts really just let Zodd go? He's still the blackswordsman. Even though he's been burned,electrocuted, battered by winds, smashed, impaled,eaten by makara,crashed into by Zodds, called bad names, and generally treated poorly, he also has an apostle (not just any apostle either) right in front of him that is also (probably...maybe?) wounded.


I wouldn't be surprised if he almost immediately tried to cut Zodd's head off (assuming Guts is even conscious).


But if he didn't...well that'd be interesting too.

 

[Aazealh]

Hmm. Well, I do not recall labeling Zodd himself a humanist

You talked about a "humanistic portrayal" of Zodd, in response to which I talked about "depicting him as a humanist." Same thing basically.

Although Guts might place Zodd in a category apart from other apostles, that does not mean he "yearns" to settle the score between them or any such thing.

Well I don't think he places him in a category apart from other apostles, it's more like he knows him personally, you know what I mean? But he never misses an occasion to call him an apostle or a monster. He really seems to be putting them all in the same bag, even though he acknowledges Zodd or Ganishka's uniqueness for example.

when shericke (sp? lol sorry) offered guts the lightning axe

It's Schierke... And it's an earth elemental axe, like Malachai said. Please make an effort when submitting a message man, your post's a complete mess. If you can't even bother yourself to spell check the characters' names, then you shouldn't expect people to bother reading your posts.

he turned it down saying that he wanted to fight with a weapon that he was already used to thats the first hint.

Actually that's not a hint at all. But after that, Schierke notices that the DS has a dark aura. This is the first hint. The rest of your post is too messy and doesn't bring anything new to the table so I'm not going to address it. Basically everybody knows what you're saying, but this episode showed us more of the DS' astral powers, and Guts used it in a more interesting way than against Slan.

(ex: gashinka (sp?))

Ganishka.

so yea....that's why i think that the DS is going to have SOME kind of important use in the future of this manga to kill the god hand or other more powerful etheral beings

No way, it's going to have an important use to kill the bad guys? That's the protagonist's sword man, obviously it's going to play a big role. Once again, this is quite obvious, and Griffith even posted about it earlier in this thread.

or the sword might be able to transform like SK's

I already replied to someone about that you know. I don't think it's going to happen. Guts eating beherits and then putting the DS in his mouth seems pretty unlikely. The DS can be powerful in its own way.

Anyway, at the parting of and would Guts really just let Zodd go? He's still the blackswordsman.

There could be a lot of different ways for it to go. Guts & Zodd could be both unconscious. Guts could want to finish Zodd while he's unconscious but the group would hurry him up and they'd go, maybe because other apostles would be approaching or any other reason. Guts & Zodd could be conscious and just go their way because of the lack of time (plus Guts is wounded, not good enough for Zodd! ). Zodd could come to himself as the group carries an unconscious Guts away and decide to let them go. Etc.

 

[Malachai]

Guts eating beherits and then putting the DS in his mouth seems pretty unlikely.

what, he's not tall enough to do it?

;)

 

[egg of the king]

The parts protecting his arms retract themselves just like the helmet does when the armor "deactives." And of course they come out when it activates. Re-read the volumes from 28 onward, it's clearly shown, several times.

thnaks, i just totally missed this aspect of the armor

 

[Pesmerga]

Sonia become very interesting because she can help individually people like Zodd, Grunbeld, Locus etc...
not just griffith or her personal problem, i think her role will become very interesting and a big problem for ganishka and guts for example who doesn't know the existence of a girl like this

Griffith is really the specialist for recruitment

 

[Jaze1618]

Did it even say what element the axe was?
I'm going off the (subpar) hawks tanslations.

 

[Aazealh]

Sonia become very interesting because she can help individually people like Zodd, Grunbeld, Locus etc...
not just griffith or her personal problem

Well she's been helping the Hawks in general from the beginning anyway, and I think on the battlefield her presence plays a great role in the fulgurant success of the Neo Hawks.

i think her role will become very interesting and a big problem for ganishka and guts for example who doesn't know the existence of a girl like this

It already is for Ganishka, even though he probably doesn't know it yet. As for Guts, Schierke has met her so she might be able connect the dots faster whenever they'll encounter her again. It also promises to involve some drama if they have to confront each other as enemies.

Did it even say what element the axe was?

It wasn't said directly. However, the axe had the elemental symbol for earth carved on it, so we can know it was associated with it.

 

[Pesmerga]

Schierke has met her so she might be able connect the dots faster whenever they'll encounter her again. It also promises to involve some drama if they have to confront each other as enemies.

Hihiihii it's true, it can be very very interesting to see how miura will introduce this kind of "duel"

 

[Exegy]

You talked about a "humanistic portrayal" of Zodd, in response to which I talked about "depicting him as a humanist." Same thing basically.

While "humanistic" can refer to the philosophy of Humanism and its associated values, such as the promotion of human wellbeing, it can also mean "of or pertaining to humanity." Context determines the meaning, as in the example "a surprisingly humanistic portrayal of saints." It is not surprising that saints should act in concern for the welfare of others, so the reference is to the fact that they are not depicted as "above" or separate from humanity. Similarly by context, a humanistic portrayal of Zodd should refer to a more "human" characterization, rather than, say, a desire to protect Vritannis' populace from Ganishka. The latter is quite the gross misrepresentation, and one that I do not want to be associated with, however indirectly. Of course, this is not to say that the reference to "humanity" is not itself problematic, which is why I wrote that I understood (and conceded) the main point you had previously made.