Episode 295

Walter said:
Ok, I think you're really reading too much into the look here man. Seriously, it's just a serious look, it's not THE END or anything.


Griffith had that serious look back 24 volumes ago.... and he was defeated straight after that...
 
^Not quite the same look, Smith. Griffith had doubt back then, and there was a little something called the Occultation that happened between then and now.
 
Griffith No More! said:
Personally, it was just another shot of Griffith's face. The hype over it is really too much. =)

I think someone needs to make one of these for Griffith http://garfielddcfe.ytmnd.com/
I picked that one just for you Griff. :guts:
 

SaiyajinNoOuji

I'm still better than you
Griffith No More! said:
Personally, it was just another shot of Griffith's face. The hype over it is really too much. =)

I SEE WUT U DID THAR GANISHKA
 

Griffith

My posts are better.

Good show Saiya, and for everyone that doesn't know what I mean when I say the astral energy could possibly flow out of Ganishka like in Ghostbusters, go to the 4:00 mark here and watch until 7:20:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5zrlWIhoNM&feature=related

I believe it's magic (magic)! =)
 

Funkmasta Zeph

Finely made wine since 1840
mike.william said:
I have a hard time believing that Griffith is going to completely embrace this 'era of darkness' if the events happening now are any indication of how miserable it's going to be. It doesn't make sense that he'd yearn so long for this kingdom if he were only going to let it go to shit. He might be evil, but I think the era of darkness would put too large a stain on his trophy.

You think that Griffith is still going after a kingdom and nothing else?
Did you skip all the volumes between now and 11 or what?
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Well, I've got to honor Ganishka's new gigantic body with an appropriate tribute: this post! :ganishka:

Baldulf said:
That was somehow to be expected though,since the city was deserted there was no point in defeating Ganishka there,but I was expecting something more epic than a Cthulhu-like squid.

He doesn't really look like Cthulhu past the tentacle beard shown on page 13, and he's nothing like a squid. Anyway, I'm sure you had an idea that would have been way more epic than a creature so big it pierces clouds in the sky. :schierke:

Rhombaad said:
Along those lines, I wouldn't be surprised if he did some sort of final, suicidal, explosion or something (hard to describe, but I hope you get what I'm trying to say) in order to take Griffith out with him, rather than letting himself be killed by The Hawk.

I wonder if he could provoke something like that, his consciousness seems altered and he doesn't look all that alert... But he might explode when he'll die anyway. If so, it'll be a huge detonation (it's going to be raining meat!). Imagine all the evil within him covering the earth, like radiation would in the case of a huge nuclear explosion. That would definitely precipitate the Age of Darkness.

HawaiianStallion said:
Does Ganishka's new form remind anyone else of the blob that attacked Mozgus's tower? Eerily similar to me.

Yeah, it looks a bit like it on pages 08 and 09. I think it's simply the "multi-faced blob" aspect that's reminiscent of the specter mass.

Griffith No More! said:
And wow, even Zodd is shitting his pants.

I wonder if that'll be a humbling experience for him (and for the others as well). No more smug faces, eh? :ganishka:

Griffith No More! said:
Anyway, this is pretty satisfying for me, because I for one was expecting sheer size to make him impressive (a Ganishka staple already)

Come on, admit you didn't expect something that big. :carcus:

Griffith No More! said:
I like this because it basically implies that he's more than a single being or entity at this point, but an evil force of nature, while totally powerful, unstable and perhaps beyond even his total control. He basically embodies something gone too far now

Yeah, exactly. It's just so much power that he doesn't seem completely able to control it, and in fact he might not be able to for very long. I'm wondering if Griffith will not just break his control on all that power within him and defeat him effortlessly that way.

JetBlack said:
That "form" (we don't know yet the whole form) seems to me the blob (so the fire will burn and kill him?)

It's not like the giant mass of specters that appeared in Albion. No use comparing them. And I can't imagine what sort of fire would suffice to burn even a hundredth of that body.

DetriusXii said:
Anyone else worried about Daiba?

I'm not too worried, the old man already proved that he's resourceful. Plus he's survived so many events so far, I doubt he'll die without us seeing it.

Walter said:
I wonder about the reliability of Daiba's statement here, if he's right on or just exaggerating. Because now I'm wondering about the longterm implications of this eruption from hell. As Yota speculated in the translation thread, we are wondering if Ganishka has taken on some properties of the Vortex of Souls.

I think Daiba's statement is correct. However, I also think the translation is not completely accurate. Like I said earlier in the thread, Ganishka says he comes from "the abyss of the evil world". The word abyss is used here, and it's the same word used in all other instances in the manga. However, what yota821 translated as "hell" (not an incorrect translation in itself) is the word "魔界", which isn't the one that has been used in the series to qualify the Vortex of Souls so far. It's more generic and that's why I referred to it as simply "evil world" ("world of evil spirits" or "demonic world" can do too). The word used by Femto in volume 3, the Idea of Evil in episode 83, and Flora in volume 24 is this one: "地獄", which specifically means "Hell". Therefore, I don't think we should postulate that Ganishka has specifically absorbed a part of the Vortex of Souls within him. It could be something more generic.

Walter said:
Which leads me to Sonia's nuclear bomb of a line [...] I think this event, whatever the implications, may set the stage for the next era of the series, and Im not just talking about getting Griffith on a throne.

Indeed. This will clearly lead to the culmination of the changes that started affecting the world with Griffith's ascension as a member of the God Hand. His subsequent incarnation was the first cornerstone, but this seems to be on a whole other level. It may concretely, visibly "inject" a huge amount of evil spiritual "stuff" into the material world. Effectively bringing about the Age of Darkness. And by the same token, I think we can expect a change of chapter and maybe even of arc in the near future.

Walter said:
As Griff alluded to in the translation thread, I wonder if this is what Griffith bargained for when he reached for his kingdom, or if he's now gotten a raw deal. Which would be perfectly justified by the full-page look of intensity he gives in this episode.

Well, that's a hard question, because we can't know what his state of mind really is at this point. We know the God Hand grants evily distorted wishes in general ("you won't suffer anymore from your cheating wife Count, just sign here!"), but since Griffith is one of them, I have a hard time imagining that he's not aware of what's happening and/or not getting what he wants. It goes along with the idea of him not just wanting a kingdom anymore.

jackson_hurley said:
Maybe Ganishka still has some part of him under the ground (could be like some kind of trap if some apostles are getting close to him).

It's indeed possible that some part of him is still underground, if only to allow him to stand without falling, considering his ridiculous height. There may be yet more tentacles at the bottom of his body, acting like tree roots would but also allowing him to attack. However, please don't be ridiculous, why would he even bother to think about protecting himself from apostles? They're nothing more than powerless ants to him now. And it's not like they were a danger to him even before his transformation. No, I think it's clear at this point that nothing physical can harm him. He's the ultimate monster, like Griff said earlier, the ultimate physical being. And it's because Griffith has powers that go vastly beyond the physical realm that he will be able to defeat him. The key resides in the astral realm, in the place Ganishka's new powers come from in the first place. And in fact, it might even be through Ganishka's own actions that Griffith will be able to use his powers to a more pronounced extent than what we've seen so far (as in, by breaking the barrier between the worlds even further, bringing so much spiritual power into the material world).

This reminds me of something else Flora said back in volume 24. She mentioned how some beings have gigantic astral bodies that can't even be compared to humans' ethereal bodies. The reference is vague and not directly related to the God Hand or anything as she mentions it before the area where the Vortex of Souls exists (could refer to the four elemental kings or simply to powerful spirits in general), but it's reminiscent of Ganishka's current colossal body to me. It's interesting to see the body that such huge power resulted in when brought forth forcefully, and it can help explain why the incarnation of a member of the God Hand is a "once in a millennium" event, and why they can't (couldn't) easily materialize into the corporeal world in general. To cram an enormous, mind-boggling amount of spiritual power into a normal-sized body must be extremely difficult and complicated.

On that note, I think the apostle mass is an important part of this process of creating a giant body. Because apostles are already suited to change their mass and grow in size, it may explain why Ganishka could reach such a disproportionate size.

dimasok said:
the form has changed from the first page (huge blob) to something with more clearly delineated contours (on the last page) that looks like a towering leviathan.

Well, it's clear he's inspired from the classic Indian concept of deities with multiple faces and arms. Anyway, I wonder if he grew that much, that quickly from the original room, or if he was already mostly formed underground and came up suddenly. Probably a mix of both.

mike.william said:
I have a hard time believing that Griffith is going to completely embrace this 'era of darkness' if the events happening now are any indication of how miserable it's going to be. It doesn't make sense that he'd yearn so long for this kingdom if he were only going to let it go to shit. He might be evil, but I think the era of darkness would put too large a stain on his trophy.

Well, things are going to be bad on some level anyway. Whether it's the land Griffith controls, or all the lands he doesn't control, or everything, there will definitely be something. And Griffith being one of the bad guys, I don't think he'll mind.

Draulix said:
The only thing laking was simply put, where was SkullKnight?

I don't think he was really lacking, considering how he hasn't shown himself or taken action during this conflict. And besides, things are only beginning there. Given the importance of the events and the danger involved, I guess he'll be watching things unfold from afar, and we might (or not) get a shot of him as they are concluded.

Griffith No More! said:
It depends on if the vortex itself is what Daiba would consider Hell, or if he even knows what he's talking about since even Flora was shifty. One prominent reference to Hell was in ye old lost episode where Griffith asks Idea if they're in Hell, so did Ganish steal something from the vortex, the Abyss, or just something no less deep in the astral realm but more generally; meaning, he touched the bottom, but there was no awkward moment with Idea while he was down there. Or, basically, could he go to those layers without going to those specific "landmarks?"

I answered some of this a little earlier. I think some "landmarks" can indeed be missed, for example the Escherian world the God Hand dwells in is probably remote and not necessarily easy to find, like Flora said in volume 24. The Vortex of Souls can probably also be seen from only a distance, as we've seen in volume 3 when it came to take the Count, but I imagine it'd be a lot more difficult not to encounter it. However, the Abyss is a specific place in itself, and I wonder how one could miss the Idea of Evil when going at the bottom of it. But then again, in episode 83 the place seems incredibly vast (and the Idea of Evil isn't even at the bottom of anything, and has a double-helix going down from its body into a whirlpool leading to god knows where), so it's impossible to be sure (not to mention that episode 83 isn't canon anymore).

Griffith No More! said:
I think this is just the natural climax of what began with Griffith's rebirth; everything has happened because of that, and with his direct influence, right down to him telling Ganishka the time and the place they would end it and sending him down this path. It could have been that Griffith did this all by instinct or foreknowledge, but Hell, he could have also straight up planned it from his own expertise and Rakshas' reconnaissance. Probably a little of both; call it fate.

Griffith's incarnation, you mean. :griff: But yeah, I agree with that, although I'd even go farther and say that it's the consequence of the God Hand being completed in the first place. Things had started to move even before his incarnation. I do think you're giving your namesake a little too much credit here though, because to me there had to be another hand shaping Ganishka's actions aside from Griffith's own influence, something acting on a higher and subtler level (causality and such) to make sure the right things would happen. I'm referring to the Idea of Evil of course. :idea:

Griffith No More! said:
I think the best example is Slan's appearance and her revelation that the worlds are coming together, or overlapping, and so God Hand members can basically appear in the real world at will as she did.

Well to be fair, she didn't really appear in the real world, she was in the Qliphoth which had itself become connected to a part of the real world. To me it's more like Guts and the others had physically penetrated into the astral world. However, it's likely that after the current events they will indeed be able to materialize themselves like that, and not just briefly as a shade in smoke or a face made of rats anymore.

Griffith No More! said:
I have two questions if Ganishka is indeed inflating with some evil part of the astral world, "Hell overflowing", first, what exactly does that mean, and second, what's going to happen when that baloon gets popped? For the first question, dropping pregnant women into that incubator would connect them to the astral world, so is Ganishka now basically serving the same function in reverse, bringing the astral world into the real world? Or to put it another way, is Ganishka in a sense working like a reverse vortex, like the ones we've seen the Count, Wyald, and Qliphoth get sucked into, except in this case the astral world is being sucked out? So, if he's destroyed, does that negative energy go with him, or does it all come flowing out like in Ghostbusters?

The way I see it, Ganishka has been pumping himself full of evil spiritual energy, bringing the worlds together while doing so. Obviously we can't tell what will happen when he dies at this point, but I favor a case of all the evil within him staying in the material world, flowing out exactly like what you described (though not necessarily involving the Vortex of Souls itself). The comparison with Ghostbusters is in fact surprisingly pertinent here. If the worlds aren't closer to each other than they've ever been already, then they will be whenever Ganishka loses control over himself. And it's interesting because this shows how evil Griffith is, as he no doubt knew something of the sort would happen, and had a hand in deliberately provoking it. Of course we knew it already, but it's a great example of how insidious he is. Anyway, if things turn out that way, it seems an incredibly effective method of bringing a lot of "evil" to the world in a very short time.

I also wonder what it'd look like. Nuclear explosion and a perpetual night ever after, or Ganishka disintegrates, everything seems normal, but an extremely profound change has occurred that people will only start noticing later on? The amount of spiritual energy within him could take on a more neutral form, "only" achieving the merging of the worlds without taking on a demonic form.

The other possibility you mentioned is interesting, but right now I just don't see it happening for many reasons. I don't think all that evil, which isn't even defined in the first place, could be destroyed or disappear just like that. It's just not enough of an entity to me. At worst it'd go back, like the apostles go to the Vortex of Souls when they die. But the whole point of the thing, beyond the puppet show we're seeing, seems to be bringing evil into the world and to have the corporeal and astral worlds merge, so that wouldn't make sense. And just killing Ganishka and destroying a lot of the "evil" of the world seems counterproductive to me. Especially since as far as we know it wouldn't benefit Griffith or the rest of the God Hand at all. They themselves are evil creatures, that's where their power comes from. I guess it could work in a Moorcock-like conception where evil would represent Chaos and good would represent Law, but that's reaching too far to me. And anyway, I doubt Ganishka has absorbed enough evil to do that.

Since we're talking about this though, I'm wondering if Griffith will have some sort of control over the evil forces at work within Ganishka. Could he just raise his hands and have Ganishka start boiling and dissolving into the pure evil he pumped out of the astral world?

Walter said:
I think Ganishka has infested the astral world with his presence, the incubator "popped" and out spilled physical hell.

I don't know about him infecting the astral world, I think that's giving him too much credit. I think he just absorbed all the power he could from the astral world, perhaps not able to really control it.

Waychel said:
Shadow of the Colossus Ganishka?!

Just to clarify my joke in case some people didn't get it, it's a pun on the fact Ganishka is now of colossal size, and that he casts a giant shadow, this being a focal point of the prophetic dream the inhabitants of Midland had.

Smith said:
Griffith is over all but hell look at his expression, when was the last time he has such serious expression? (More than 23 volumes ago? It's just priceless!)

Don't overdo it, his expression's not that different from usual.

Smith said:
And Aaz look like what you hope is coming through, Ganishka is not going down without a real challenging battle, or I should say WAR... Heck we didn't even know what would work against that monstrosity (Magic is the most probable solution but for enemy that size its... :isidro:)

We'll see, it's hard to predict what will happen at this point. Though yeah, clearly the key to beating him won't be from the material world.

Smith said:
AH YES! How could Miura forget about him??! He should deserve a panel somewhere far in a forest staring at the direction where the great Godishka is (Just like how the rest stare at him!)

Do I need to say that Miura hasn't forgotten about him? :schierke: The whole point of the character is that he's not like the rest.

Smith said:
P.S: Did you guys realise that his many-arms appearance is not so much of a coincidence, Does anyone still remember the statue of a Hindu goddess behind his throne?

Yes, I'm pretty sure that everyone realizes that.

Smith said:
it was mentioned the 4 kings who bought destruction to the ancient midland.

What was mentioned is that 4 or 5 angels did it. The four elemental kings aren't mentioned. Please, at least make the effort to check on your facts before posting.

Smith said:
Oh wait! We have seen Void and Slann reaching the size of a mountain in volume 13 when they first appeared... Could Void have been this size back then?

Ubik was huge too. But your assumption about Void is still ridiculous. The Occultation ceremony didn't happen in the material world.

Graywords said:
Not sure if it's what Miura had in mind or not, but this picture and the article beneath it made for interesting brain fodder, in relation to this episode

Hmm, really? I don't see anything particular about it. Do you mean the multiple faces/arms theme? Because if so, we've known about it ever since Ganishka was introduced, and it's pretty common in Indian mythology, not exclusive to that picture/story. I'm just not sure about what you mean here.

Gaiserik said:
Yes, but he don't a comparation with two images, in this you see so much better the resemblance, even the myst and mountains are similar in this picture.

But there's really no resemblance at all aside from the angle and the fact they're both straight standing figures. I don't see what your point is here.

Gaiserik said:
But if you want see other new from episode 295, check it
Is the Notre Dame of Paris

That gargoyle shot is nice. But if you want to compare, there are more interesting shots of Wyndham's cathedral in episode 293.

vlad said:
I'm getting the feeling that the upcoming conflict betwen Griffith and Ganishka is going to be resolved in a sort of anticlimactic manner. To elaborate: given that the dream that all the people of Midland shared was spot on as far as the new form of Gani goes, it is fair to assume that the Hawk of Light is also going to appear, thusly ending the proceedings in a matter similar to the Zodd dream sequence.

That's a possibility, but I wonder if it will be that easy. What we saw of the dream sequence was the Falcon of Light piercing dark clouds, not destroying Ganishka. It alluded to it (but without giving details), of course, but I'm following your method here. And Zodd's dream was a special case too, since the Hawk killed him in the dream but not in reality. We could also talk about Guts' dream concerning Casca, or the king's dream that led to his death. Even if the rest was exactly the same, the Hawk itself could vary. In any case I'm sure it'll be very cool.

vlad said:
IMHO it'd be cool to give us a glimpse and then switch to the boat and have Schierke serve as the interpretor

Yeah, I'm also wondering myself if Schierke but also Guts and Casca (and possibly the elves as well?) will feel what's happening at such a distance. It raises the point of the nature of this "new world" that's being created. Will it englobe the whole world, or will it only cover a certain surface? Will it grow little by little or cover everything at once? In any case, it will be very interesting to see.

JetBlack said:
Mmmm the funny thing is that all this is a part of Karma I think. The most powerful is the enemy (he seems the hell no?) the most Griffith is a hero after the battle.

At this point I don't think it's about looking like a hero anymore. Ganishka is beyond words, beyond human comprehension.

JetBlack said:
a horrible hell's blob.

Ganishka isn't much of a blob at this point, really. Get over it.

DetriusXii said:
We know Guts and Casca left Idea's story by entering the Abyss and survive it. They were destined to die but ended up surviving. And they happen to create a sphere of influence around them allowing other travelers to leave the predestined fate Idea has planned. Flora, Schierke, and Skullknight being three other cases of having left the story set up by the Idea of Evil.

Wow, what are you talking about here. You're completely mistaken about everything. Guts and Casca never went to the Abyss. What we call the place the Eclipse happened in is the Nexus. It's completely different. And there's no predestined fate you can escape by surviving or anything else like that. Nobody "left the story", that's not how things work at all. You're confusing several analogies and references all together. Since this isn't the right thread to talk about it, I strongly suggest you use the forum's search engine to look for more detailed explanations about all this.

Vampire_Hunter_Bob said:
What makes you so certain that the balloon actually needs to pop? Its effects can start taking effect right now, but won't show right away.

Griff was referring to Ganishka dying and releasing all the power that is for now contained within him.

Smith said:
With the way Miura introduced Ganishka's new form and Griffith's serious expression, there is no way Ganishka is going down just like that...

I mean Griffith has finally met up his match, if not why bother to let him (Ganishka) live till now? Miura would have killed him off back in vol. 32 if he was to pose no serious threat to Griffith in future (I mean what'd be the point?).

The point would be that Ganishka just pumped himself full of the essence of the evil part of the astral world, and that when dying he could very well release all that essence into the physical world, which would likely result in a dramatical acceleration of the merging process that was started with Femto's incarnation as a new Griffith in volume 21. Don't you understand? Killing Ganishka is beyond the point. It's gone too far for that now. I feel like you're asking if Carcus is going to accept Guts as the new leader of the Band of the Hawk while the Eclipse is about to start.

deathbybears said:
It would make sense. Skullknight seems to reside someplace outside fate

There's no such immutable Fate, and no one is outside it.

deathbybears said:
Because Guts and Casca weren't consumed during the eclipse, might that mean that Griffith lacks the power of his full potential?

Damn guys, like Wally said and like it was said dozens of times before, it's the branding that is the sacrifice, not the deaths of those who have been branded. Guts and Casca have been sacrificed, and Griffith isn't lacking anything.

Sanguinius said:
Am I the only one that thinks of Hobbes' Leviathan when I see this?

Well, other than both illustrations (Miura's and the Abraham Bosse one) depicting a gigantic creature, I don't see much of a similarity.
 
Aaz.. you just won this thread. :isidro:

Okay after reading all that, I think I'm starting to understand better. Thanks Aaz, for taking your time and going so in depth to explain everything.
 
Ramen4ever said:
Aaz.. you just won this thread. :isidro:

Yeah, that was as gigantic as Ganishka's new form.

By the way... I laughed hysterically when looking at the scans, that was my reaction. I expected some huge ass beast, but this just owns all. Suffice to say, I don't care about what Guts is doing right now. This event is quite a sight to behold.
 
I used "hell" in the translation, because Daiba's line "Hell is oveflowing" seemed to be the best sounding translation, and I edited his earlier line in mention to Ganishka's form to match the wording (since they used the same kanji).

But in any case everyone should read Aaz's post concerning the term I translated as "hell".
 
Funkmasta Zeph said:
You think that Griffith is still going after a kingdom and nothing else?
Did you skip all the volumes between now and 11 or what?

I don't remember any ulterior ambitions being presented for Griffith. He wanted his kingdom....and what else? He might be playing along into idea's plan of making life suck for everyone, but I don't remember that he had identified any personal goals aside from accomplishing his dream of getting his own kingdom. His reincarnation is furthing idea's plans by slowly merging the two worlds together, but Griffith only cared about obtaining a body to chase his kingdom. And waxing Ganishka, what does he care about Ganishka other than that his defeat is a means towards the end of becoming a king?

I don't see these other explicit goals that Griffith is after, not yet anyway. What are they?
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
mike.william said:
I don't remember any ulterior ambitions being presented for Griffith. He wanted his kingdom....and what else?
Well you're right in one regard in that Griffith hasn't been THAT specific about his additional goals. As Aaz said earlier in the thread, Griffith's state of mind has been guarded since his scene with Guts in Volume 22. But if you want some extra insight into his motivations, there's this scene in Volume 3 where he actually opens up for a change. Translation is by Perineum Falcon, with help from Olivier Hague circa 2002:

Page 123
Griffith: In this world there are those who were born as keys, and having no connection with the social hierarchy established by man, move the world.
This, the universe's golden rule, establishes the true elite…
The people who possess the power of God.
... I want to know.
Why I am on this world.
What is possible by who ...
(Thereby) Establishing what I should do.
Griff got his answer to what his true role was when he became a member of the God Hand. But what their ultimate goal is, outside of ushering in an Age of Darkness, we're still in our own Age of Darkness on. Though, as Griff, Aaz and myself have already postulated, the phenomena we're seeing in this episode could very well be one of the few true manifestations of their plans.
 
Walter said:
Griff got his answer to what his true role was when he became a member of the God Hand. But what their ultimate goal is, outside of ushering in an Age of Darkness, we're still in our own Age of Darkness on.

Well, my point to Funkmasta was that it wasn't entirely ridiculous to think that aquiring an idealized kingdom could be first and foremost in Griffith's intentions, even now, and that he might not care anything about the age of darkness. I always interpretted his role in god hand as something similar to that of the role of the apostles : "do what you want". I see it as a mutual relationship between Idea and the godhand in which the godhand are left to pursue whatever goals they wish using the power given them, and as a result they indirectly facilitate idea's goals as well. I'm probably only allowed it interpret it this way due to the lack of insight given in the story up to this point, or maybe I'm just missing the subtleties completely.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
mike.william said:
I always interpretted his role in god hand as something similar to that of the role of the apostles : "do what you want". ... I'm probably only allowed it interpret it this way due to the lack of insight given in the story up to this point, or maybe I'm just missing the subtleties completely.
That's not that farfetched really. I hate to just keep posting translations, but I think the answer to your questions are here, really:
[quote author=Episode 83]
Griffith: God! What do you want from me?
The Idea of Evil: Be as you will
I dwell deep in your heart
I am a part of you
You are a part of your kind's consciousness
A part of me
Your desire is my desire as well
Your actions themselves shall prove to be suitable for your kind as a whole
May those actions bring pain or salvation to the men
[/quote]
 
I was wondering about the translation I read here (which seems much more logical to me than the one I'm about to present) and the translated scantalions I've read today.
That one reads on the 20th page:
"The world of objection is finished". The one which sounds better to me is "It will end.  The laws of this world will now end."
What in the name of God is this "world of objection"? Is it the objective world that's out there (i.e. a non-solipsistic point of view) or are they referring to something else? Maybe they mean the material world in the state that it is in right now will end and the new laws or the new world will be the one post Age of Darkness?

Regardless though, as Aazealh and others said, killing Ganishka now won't result in a death without consequences.. I have no doubts in my mind that using whatever cool techniques Miura has in store for us, Ganishka will go down and Griffith will defeat him but it will definitely not be without consequences. In fact, killing him might very well be a prerequisite to ushering in the Age of Darkness and his appearance as this giant being is the first stage of that age. Quite interesting when you think of it like that (that it is beneficial for both Griffith and the other Godhand and the Idea of Evil of course that Ganishka takes all that evil from whatever layer he was on and bring it to the material world, thus accelerating the timetable for their agenda) - thanks for inspiring guys :)

Ganishka might have indeed fulfilled his wish of tapping into the power available only to the Godhand (or maybe not to them even!), but he is certainly not about to fool the Idea of Evil - that is far beyond everything else including himself IMHO - the puppeteer that plays with it's puppets is untouchable in it's own realm, though the first serious contender to both the Apostles and the Godhand (at least if we don't take into the account that he might actually be helping them) is here - Guts won't bring him down, even in his Berserk form and even flying on top of Zodd :D
 
Wow... what an episode.

This is the first time I've ever posted regarding an episode.

I read most of the posts here, and I share basically the same sentiments of awe that everyone has expressed here.

2 questions:

-Was something like this in Griffith's plans? Did he expect something like this to occur?

-Is something like this big enough to screw up Griffith's plan to take a kingdom? What I mean is that, with Ganeshka being such a immensely powerful force now, is it going to cause Griffith to act too quickly/unstabley, like what happened when Guts left the original Band of the Hawk?
 

SaiyajinNoOuji

I'm still better than you
EndLeSS8 said:
2 questions:

-Was something like this in Griffith's plans? Did he expect something like this to occur?

-Is something like this big enough to screw up Griffith's plan to take a kingdom? What I mean is that, with Ganeshka being such a immensely powerful force now, is it going to cause Griffith to act too quickly/unstably, like what happened when Guts left the original Band of the Hawk?

For your first question, I am sure he saw Ganishka pulling out the stops in this final confrontation... as to whether he knew that Ganishka would become this and go so far... I am thinking maybe not.

Your second one, I don't think he is going to become all crazy but I would not be surprised if he would actually show some of his "real" power and surprise the hell out of the normal people. Then again now that I think about it, I think if he does use any power it will be hidden. I don't think the shit will hit the fan until after this and he becomes king/emperor/chuck norris of Midland and beyond. After that I think the human shenanigans will disperse and it will be God hand and Apostle time on everyone.
 
dimasok said:
I was wondering about the translation I read here
"The world of objection is finished". The one which sounds better to me is "It will end. The laws of this world will now end."
The other translator simply didn't know what the F#ck he/she was talking about. See for yourself.
ob·jec·tion (b-jkshn)
n.
1. The act of objecting.
2. A statement presented in opposition.
3. A ground, reason, or cause for expressing opposition.


"Law of this world.." imo is a lot more accurate, as it actually makes some sense. I'm pretty sure it's a reference to the merging between the Astral and the Physical world. Maybe you should read the rest of the thread, or atleast Aaz's super post.
This picture, found in your local Sk.net encyclopedia, should also offer some insight.
http://www.skullknight.net/encyclopedia/world/universe/

Looks like I did some of your homework for you,
http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=6869.msg124578#msg124578
For further content please refer to the nearest


At a search engine near you. :carcus:
 
Aaz, you almost answered everyone question in this entire episode, that was one hella good post...

Anyway regarding to one of your reply:

Aazealh said:
The point would be that Ganishka just pumped himself full of the essence of the evil part of the astral world, and that when dying he could very well release all that essence into the physical world, which would likely result in a dramatical acceleration of the merging process that was started with Femto's incarnation as a new Griffith in volume 21. Don't you understand? Killing Ganishka is beyond the point. It's gone too far for that now. I feel like you're asking if Carcus is going to accept Guts as the new leader of the Band of the Hawk while the Eclipse is about to start.

So you are basically inferring that killing Ganishka is just an excuse to bring evil into this world right? Not just to show the world that he is the "saviour"?

Wow if that the case, he is killing 2 birds with 1 stone? :isidro:
 

JetBlack

CASULTY FAN
>.< Aaz we see the tower in your post... but where are the tentacles? :guts:

Thanks for the long explanation and I have to say that the more impressive thing to me (I never thought about that) is this:

Aazealh said:
Well, I've got to honor Ganishka's new gigantic body with an appropriate tribute: this post! :ganishka:

The way I see it, Ganishka has been pumping himself full of evil spiritual energy, bringing the worlds together while doing so. Obviously we can't tell what will happen when he dies at this point, but I favor a case of all the evil within him staying in the material world, flowing out exactly like what you described (though not necessarily involving the Vortex of Souls itself). The comparison with Ghostbusters is in fact surprisingly pertinent here. If the worlds aren't closer to each other than they've ever been already, then they will be whenever Ganishka loses control over himself. And it's interesting because this shows how evil Griffith is, as he no doubt knew something of the sort would happen, and had a hand in deliberately provoking it. Of course we knew it already, but it's a great example of how insidious he is. Anyway, if things turn out that way, it seems an incredibly effective method of bringing a lot of "evil" to the world in a very short time.

I also wonder what it'd look like. Nuclear explosion and a perpetual night ever after, or Ganishka disintegrates, everything seems normal, but an extremely profound change has occurred that people will only start noticing later on? The amount of spiritual energy within him could take on a more neutral form, "only" achieving the merging of the worlds without taking on a demonic form.

The other possibility you mentioned is interesting, but right now I just don't see it happening for many reasons. I don't think all that evil, which isn't even defined in the first place, could be destroyed or disappear just like that. It's just not enough of an entity to me. At worst it'd go back, like the apostles go to the Vortex of Souls when they die. But the whole point of the thing, beyond the puppet show we're seeing, seems to be bringing evil into the world and to have the worlds merge, so that wouldn't make sense. And just killing Ganishka and destroying a lot of the "evil" of the world seems counterproductive to me. Especially since as far as we know it wouldn't benefit Griffith or the rest of the God Hand at all. They themselves are evil creatures, that's where their power comes from. I guess it could work in a Moorcock-like conception where evil would represent Chaos and good would represent Law, but that's reaching too far to me. And anyway, I doubt Ganishka has absorbed enough evil to do that.

Since we're talking about this though, I'm wondering if Griffith will have some sort of control over the evil forces at work within Ganishka. Could he just raise his hands and have Ganishka start boiling and dissolving into the pure evil he pumped out of the astral world?

I was getting the feeling that the upcoming conflict betwen Griffith and Ganishka is going to be resolved in a sort of anticlimactic manner. But after your post I think Miura will do a great BooomB conflict :ganishka:.
 
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