Episode 307

Black_Devil

Punos Rey
^Agree 100% with the above post Walter, I know you wanted to steer away from the legends aspect, but if I may add, remember how Flora would tend to the berserk armor for SK? Schierke I believe did mention how Flora would fondly tend to the armor, and I don't think she'd hold any positive sentiment or attachment to an extravagant hedonist as in the legends.
 
It's all so mysterious, you really have to grasp every piece of the story and make all the connections to try and understand what the bollocks is going on here! What does humanity desire? What does the Godhand really want? Who is the skull knight? What happened to Gaeseric and his empire? So many questions, so little answers!
 
Amazing episode. The culmination of so many things. I pity the people who couldn't buy YA this time, it's a truly magnificent issue. Volume 34 is not to be missed either. Worth an instant-purchase, as always.
 

Dar_Klink

Last Guardian when? - CyberKlink 20XX before dying
Buy Berserk! said:
Amazing episode. The culmination of so many things. I pity the people who couldn't buy YA this time, it's a truly magnificent issue. Volume 34 is not to be missed either. Worth an instant-purchase, as always.
:sad: no YA for me, but :guts: ordered Volume 34! My first Japanese volume!
Oh man, Berserkfan has given me inspiration to write a Berserk fanfic along the lines of Dragonball or Yu Yu Hakusho's tournament arcs. [sub][sub][sub]why would I actually enjoy watching/reading that?[/sub][/sub][/sub]
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Walter said:
You and I called it from our earlier discussion :carcus:

You know, at this point I think it might be better to just start mentioning things we didn't call beforehand. :badbone:

Walter said:
Really, I think it's implied that both Foss and the Pontiff are right -- it's Gaiseric's capital with some supernatural renovations, more or less as we expected. But man, to have that confirmed. Fills me with such ... happiness :judo:

Well, while it's not completely confirmed, the fact it's the first thing Foss was reminded of certainly lends credence to our earlier posts on the topic. I'd be interested to see what Wyndham Falconia's underground looks like now. Are the ruins still there? Did they disappear when Falconia appeared? Are there horrid creatures lurking in the dark down there now? :zodd:

berserkfan said:
I think now that griffith has his own kingdom the age of darkness will turn out like this.

You really like the movie Gladiator, don't you?

Walter said:
Griffith's capital appears. It resembles the former emperor's city, but has been augmented by supernatural means. It cost nothing to build. Well, nothing except his humanity and the order and sanity of the world. The world had to change in order for the capital to appear, and that shift has placed all of civilization in danger.

Hmm. One thing we should be careful not to do is focusing on Falconia too much in the grand scheme of things. For example the tree could play a much bigger role than the city at this point. While Falconia itself represents Griffith's dream, the tree (formerly Ganishka) was the gate from which the merging came. I guess what I'm getting at is that currently it might be a bit presumptuous to assume it was all done just so that Falconia would appear.

To me it's more probably one element among others in this new world the God Hand has engineered. For Slan, Conrad, Ubik and Void the reward was a much stronger influence on the the world, for Griffith it was the accomplishment of his dream (no doubt far exceeding what it actually was originally). But is it the end? Is that what the plan was all along? I don't think so. I believe the best/worst is yet to come.

Walter said:
I concede that details in these legends were likely tainted over time, but I don't think we should outright ignore them because of that. I believe the core of these stories is true: the capital wasn't built on the backs of happy citizens, piling brick after brick in glee. Something triggered its downfall and decimation.

In any case, we don't know the whole story. That something destroyed the city overnight is pretty much a given, but how the emperor ruled and what his subjects wanted... I think it's risky to venture into such speculation with so little information. I don't doubt some people were unhappy, but was it really everyone, or just a faction that eventually got to write history? We could easily speculate for hours on that subject.

Black_Devil said:
Griffith's has literally sacrificed the state of the world to achieve what Gaiseric did

Repeating what I said above, but I think it's a bit simplistic to consider Falconia the end goal of the merging of the worlds.

Black_Devil said:
Gaiseric's kingdom was real in that it didn't require supernatural elements to be built

We don't know the details of how the capital city of his empire was built, you said so yourself. But presumably magic and astral creatures were not uncommon during Gaiseric's time, so who's to say no supernatural elements were involved at all? And why is the supernatural itself automatically assumed to be a bad thing? Furthermore, why is the merging of the worlds reduced to a "price" Griffith had to pay for Falconia, when it's an event of a much bigger magnitude?

Okin said:
Wait, so are we considering that this city appeared from the astral where the "idea" of Gaiseric's capital existed?

The world of ideas and the astral world are different... Despite the case of the Idea of Evil, I wouldn't mingle the two.

Okin said:
Something worth talking about. Obviously there's faults in building a kingdom from harsh labor, but look at the Egyptians: They managed to convince their pyramid builders into thinking it was their place to work for the pharaoh, and they gave them plenty of reason to do so too. They had good lives overall, and still created some of the greatest structures in history.

Simply said, they were qualified workers, not actual slaves.

Darklink286 said:
:sad: no YA for me, but :guts: ordered Volume 34! My first Japanese volume!

Too bad, you're missing out. I have to say though, there's nothing too exceptional in the Character & World booklet (its purpose mostly seems to be to recapitulate the story for newcomers). Reminds me of the "Review the Berserk" pages Young Animal featured a while back. Still, convenient little thing for the average reader.
 
Honestly, it's hard for me to imagine a lot of these people's lives being much worse than they already were under the rule of Ganishka. Bring on the crazy magically appearing city~
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
CowTip said:
Honestly, it's hard for me to imagine a lot of these people's lives being much worse than they already were under the rule of Ganishka. Bring on the crazy magically appearing city~
Falconia is kind of an exclusive city though. It can only house and protect some of the population from the terrors of the outside. What's going to happen to the others, like say Vritannis?

:magni: :chomp:


No city will be able to withstand a full-on attack by astral creatures without the help of trained magic users. Take Enoch as an example -- as it was probably meant to be all along.

Or is quelling the hordes of astral creatures the next use of Griffith's apostle army? :???:
 

Griffith

My posts are better.
Here's a pertinent thought, Falconia is obviously quite humongous from the wide shots we've seen, and I doubt all those present will be enough to fill it, or even come close. So, perhaps all the supernatural oogie boogies running around out there will serve as the ultimate motivation for people, the world over, to seek refuge within its walls and Griffith's dominion. Maybe that's the whole point of the Age of Darkness; join us, or deal with it yourself.


Then again, despite obvious the problems "fantasia" presents, I don't think we should go too far in assuming it's going to be so untenable for humans in the rest of the world. Not all these creatures are Trolls and Ogres, and a natural order or ecosystem may fall into place with both friendly and unfriendly creatures present and perhaps balancing each other to a agree. Anyway, we tend get used to things... and therefore they become easier to kill, just look at Griffith's men in the face of Ganishka's offspring. If farmers can figure out how to put some of these new beasts to work in their fields, they will. =)
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
宮本 グリフィス said:
Here's a pertinent thought, Falconia is obviously quite humongous from the wide shots we've seen, and I doubt all those present will be enough to fill it, or even come close. So, perhaps all the supernatural oogie boogies running around out there will serve as the ultimate motivation for people, the world over, to seek refuge within its walls and Griffith's dominion. Maybe that's the whole point of the Age of Darkness; join us, or deal with it yourself.
Despite all I've said, I think there's probably still more to come that will change the circumstances in the world. Namely, how/what/if the God Hand will take an active role and emerge from the shadows.

Then again, despite obvious the problems "fantasia" presents, I don't think we should go too far in assuming it's going to be so untenable for humans in the rest of the world. Not all these creatures are Trolls and Ogres, and a natural order or ecosystem may fall into place with both friendly and unfriendly creatures present and perhaps balancing each other to a agree. Anyway, we tend get used to things... and therefore they become easier to kill, just look at Griffith's men in the face of Ganishka's offspring. If farmers can figure out how to put some of these new beasts to work in their fields, they will. =)
I'm unsure those unicorns would make good plow horses, and I doubt the farmers will be able to convince the zombies and dragons to be harnessed :carcus:
 

Griffith

My posts are better.
Walter said:
Despite all I've said, I think there's probably still more to come that will change the circumstances in the world. Namely, how/what/if the God Hand will take an active role and emerge from the shadows.

That's the $64 million question... it would be interesting if they did reveal themselves fully, with the Apostles already "unleashing their evil," a fellow like Void suddenly doesn't seem so out of place (and it's fun to imagine housewives with babies happily strolling with him in the park, asking his sage advice =). But then, Griffith is still wearing his makeup in public, which leads to an even more exciting prospect to me; will the other God Hand members be able to take on human guises of their own? Is royal vizier Void already waiting in the throne room to advise the new King? :void:


Walter said:
I'm unsure those unicorns would make good plow horses, and I doubt the farmers will be able to convince the zombies and dragons to be harnessed :carcus:

You know what I mean though, these creatures will create some havoc, but they're not necessarily going to lay waste to world. It may function, for a while anyway, like any depiction of a fairy tale world.
 
宮本 グリフィス said:

It's the first time I've seen this emoticon and I like it a lot. Personally, I think it looks much better than the version available right now; it's more polished. Great job!!!
 

Griffith

My posts are better.
Thanks, Wally's been working overtime to get it just right. Anyway, back on topic...


Anybody else think that when we next see Guts he might be flexing his metal arm like Arnold in T2? :guts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mStmiGS43jQ
 
I gotta say, the idea of Guts Flexing some metal sounds marvelous. :guts:

Thinking about it though, maybe that image is suggesting he's gotta "gear up" again, implying maybe the journey to elf hell (ehm. Helm) isn't going so smoothly. Any thoughts? (my apologies if I missed anyone's comments on this matter already)
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Aazealh said:
Furthermore, why is the merging of the worlds reduced to a "price" Griffith had to pay for Falconia, when it's an event of a much bigger magnitude?
For the rest of the world and the story, absolutely. But for Griffith, his kingdom was his dream. Merging the worlds was a stepping stone to get there, for better (unlikely) or for worse (much more likely). That's all I'm saying.

Chaos said:
maybe that image is suggesting he's gotta "gear up" again, implying maybe the journey to elf hell (ehm. Helm) isn't going so smoothly. Any thoughts? (my apologies if I missed anyone's comments on this matter already)
I really don't think that's the case. Look at the shimmering effect coming off the arm in the top right. This is the first panel we've seen of Guts after the wave that washed over everyone in ep 305. Since then, we've all been wondering what the consequence would be. But it actually makes some sense that he'll begin to have sensations in it, or even develop the ability to move it. "Man I gotta get some upgrades!" doesn't fit as well, to me.
 
Walter said:
I really don't think that's the case. Look at the shimmering effect coming off the arm in the top right. This is the first panel we've seen of Guts after the wave that washed over everyone in ep 305. Since then, we've all been wondering what the consequence would be. But it actually makes some sense that he'll begin to have sensations in it, or even develop the ability to move it. "Man I gotta get some upgrades!" doesn't fit as well, to me.

Oh, I'm not arguing that. I'm hopeful that's the case, since it does make sense. I was just thinking maybe something was coming up that would result in him having to use the arm (along with every other weapon at his disposal). With the appearance of all these mythical creatures, I don't see that being a far fetched thought that some monster appears on their journey. And even if he can't "feel" with the arm (which I sincerely hope is not the case, because, let's be serious, that'd be f**king sweet), he still might have to put it back on to do what he does best :chomp:
 

Black_Devil

Punos Rey
Aazealh said:
We don't know the details of how the capital city of his empire was built, you said so yourself. But presumably magic and astral creatures were not uncommon during Gaiseric's time, so who's to say no supernatural elements were involved at all? And why is the supernatural itself automatically assumed to be a bad thing? Furthermore, why is the merging of the worlds reduced to a "price" Griffith had to pay for Falconia, when it's an event of a much bigger magnitude?

I'm just going off the presumption that he built it without magic to try and address how Walter was probing for thoughts, seeing as how he didn't want to go into the speculative domain regarding the how.

But as far as the supernatural itself thing though, I'm not saying its bad, I'm just saying it'd be more remarkable if Gaiseric's empire was built without supernatural elements, whereas Griffith's kingdom was basically laid out before him after the sacrifice and everything, it's just the thought of it being something Gaiseric achieved on his own, though there's no way to verify if that was indeed the case, or how his empire fit into the plans at that time. Hopefully I managed to word my post better instead of fumbling it up :X.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
宮本 グリフィス said:
Here's a pertinent thought, Falconia is obviously quite humongous from the wide shots we've seen, and I doubt all those present will be enough to fill it, or even come close. So, perhaps all the supernatural oogie boogies running around out there will serve as the ultimate motivation for people, the world over, to seek refuge within its walls and Griffith's dominion.

Yeah, I remember posting about it some months ago. They'll definitely need to bring in more people, one way or another.

宮本 グリフィス said:
Then again, despite obvious the problems "fantasia" presents, I don't think we should go too far in assuming it's going to be so untenable for humans in the rest of the world.

I agree actually. It's going to suck, people are going to die, all that. But those who survive might find advantages too. A resurgence of magic, for one thing. It could simply be a matter of getting used again to the old style of life. Different rules to respect. Use some bays to keep the trolls away, that sort of stuff. Now of course, this is all ignoring the presence of the God Hand. They're the real threat. People have been talking about the Age of Darkness ever since the worlds merged, but it doesn't seem too dark yet to me. I say, let's wait and see what they're cooking up.

Walter said:
Despite all I've said, I think there's probably still more to come that will change the circumstances in the world. Namely, how/what/if the God Hand will take an active role and emerge from the shadows.

Why go through all that trouble if not to get to business? :idea:

Chaos said:
Thinking about it though, maybe that image is suggesting he's gotta "gear up" again, implying maybe the journey to elf hell (ehm. Helm) isn't going so smoothly. Any thoughts?

The sound effect in the preview is that of a metallic "clicking" sound. Make of that what you will. Also worth noting is that in episode 305 he had bandages covering the artificial arm, but in the preview they've been removed.

Walter said:
For the rest of the world and the story, absolutely. But for Griffith, his kingdom was his dream. Merging the worlds was a stepping stone to get there, for better (unlikely) or for worse (much more likely). That's all I'm saying.

Of course, but it was his dream when he was human. It was his ultimate goal then. These days he's part of a group (God Hand), and while I'm sure he was very happy with the city and accompanying castle, I don't think it's the end of his ambition anymore.
 
Every single reaction shot was very much a big :schnoz: for everybody this episode. Makes me wonder just how the likes of Silat, the Tapasa and Daiba (known as the enemies to Griffith, of course) shall survive being left out of this new kingdom, how could they defend themselves from such foul [and powerful] beasts? Daiba could just fly away and use his magic, sure, but there's also the fact that he could become overwhelmed by all of this.

[quote author=宮本 グリフィス]But then, Griffith is still wearing his makeup in public, which leads to an even more exciting prospect to me; will the other God Hand members be able to take on human guises of their own? Is royal vizier Void already waiting in the throne room to advise the new King?[/quote]

I'm hoping Void would take on a more important role than just advisor, but good point, can the other God Hand members actually take on human guises of their own now? Makes me also wonder just how much power they now have in the Mortal world.

[quote author=Aazealh]

I agree actually. It's going to suck, people are going to die, all that. But those who survive might find advantages too. A resurgence of magic, for one thing. It could simply be a matter of getting used again to the old style of life. Different rules to respect. Use some bays to keep the trolls away, that sort of stuff. Now of course, this is all ignoring the presence of the God Hand. They're the real threat. People have been talking about the Age of Darkness ever since the worlds merged, but it doesn't seem too dark yet to me. I say, let's wait and see what they're cooking up.[/quote]

Here's a question I'm sure you should know the answer to, but what do the humans know of the God Hand? I cannot recall them being specifically referred to by any human character. Are they a force that has never been spoken of (and never heard of) or a mere legend passed on from one generation to the next? Foss seemed to know a surprising amount regarding Griffith's kingdom, which leads me to think that maybe there has been rumours passed around about them, maybe? Of course, humanity's knowledge of these forces would be absolutely minimal, but I was just wondering if any of them could catch onto the fact that the God Hand are sorta the authority on the world (being led by the Idea, of course).


It's all running smoothly for Griffith now, and with an almost rapidly quick episode following, I cannot wait to see any interior shots of his new home. Bet it's cosy :griffnotevil:
 
Regarding the school of thought that Griffith sacrificed the current state and order in the world for his kingdom, Isn't it more accurate to lend credit to the Beherit apostle? Didn't he sacrifice the world in order to become the egg of the 'desired' or 'new world' or something along those lines? Isn't this the culmination of his sacrifice leading into the creation of the new world?
 
Hmm. I noticed Guts doesn't have any scars on his fingers and if you zoom up real close on ep. 305 I still see some drawn scars, I think. So I don't know but maybe guts has actually gotten better now.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Henry Spencer said:
Makes me wonder just how the likes of Silat, the Tapasa and Daiba (known as the enemies to Griffith, of course) shall survive being left out of this new kingdom, how could they defend themselves from such foul [and powerful] beasts?

The Bakiraka really aren't the people I would be worried about. They're as capable as it gets.

Henry Spencer said:
Here's a question I'm sure you should know the answer to, but what do the humans know of the God Hand? I cannot recall them being specifically referred to by any human character.

Flora was a human character, wasn't she? :slan:

But to answer your question, most people don't know about the God Hand's existence. And while sometimes a few can get glimpses of them, they remain ignorant (like the heretics in Albion, viewing Slan as a fire goddess).

Henry Spencer said:
Foss seemed to know a surprising amount regarding Griffith's kingdom, which leads me to think that maybe there has been rumours passed around about them, maybe?

I don't understand what you're saying here. Do you mean Foss knows about the tale of Gaiseric's old capital? Or do you mean he believed Griffith would return, after having had the collective dream of the Falcon of Light? In either case, I don't think he has any particular knowledge of the God Hand. Maybe there are old stories about them that are still around, but if so we haven't been exposed to them yet.

Henry Spencer said:
It's all running smoothly for Griffith now, and with an almost rapidly quick episode following, I cannot wait to see any interior shots of his new home. Bet it's cosy :griffnotevil:

You don't seem to have caught up to the fact the next episode appears to be about Guts.

Jaze1618 said:
Regarding the school of thought that Griffith sacrificed the current state and order in the world for his kingdom

That's not a school of thought. And that sentence is really badly worded. Griffith didn't "literally" sacrifice the state of the world, unlike what Black Devil said. He was the main agent to effect the merging of the worlds, that's all. Overdramatizing is useless.

Jaze1618 said:
Isn't it more accurate to lend credit to the Beherit apostle? Didn't he sacrifice the world in order to become the egg of the 'desired' or 'new world' or something along those lines?

To be exact, he sacrificed the world around him. Hence the brand created from fires Guts saw on the land at the time.

Jaze1618 said:
Isn't this the culmination of his sacrifice leading into the creation of the new world?

Not really. What the beherit-apostle wanted wasn't exactly for the astral and corporeal worlds to be merged. In many ways, it could be argued that his wish was granted when Femto was incarnated. On the other hand, why not? I actually like the idea that it could be viewed as the culmination of his wish.

Riastrathe said:
Hmm. I noticed Guts doesn't have any scars on his fingers and if you zoom up real close on ep. 305 I still see some drawn scars, I think. So I don't know but maybe guts has actually gotten better now.

Yeah, I noticed this as well. It's definitely possible, but Miura could have also just not drawn the scars in that panel. We'll see.
 
Aazealh said:
To be exact, he sacrificed the world around him. Hence the brand created from fires Guts saw on the land at the time.

Yes, this. Thank you for that distinction.

Aazealh said:
Not really. What the beherit-apostle wanted wasn't exactly for the astral and corporeal worlds to be merged. In many ways, it could be argued that his wish was granted when Femto was incarnated. On the other hand, why not? I actually like the idea that it could be viewed as the culmination of his wish.

Yes I was rather excited by the idea as well.
 
Aazealh said:
The Bakiraka really aren't the people I would be worried about. They're as capable as it gets.

True, but regardless, I hope they survive. Wonder where the remaining Kushan will run to and if they will actually reform.

Aazealh said:
Flora was a human character, wasn't she? :slan:

To be honest, she slipped my mind.

Aazealh said:
But to answer your question, most people don't know about the God Hand's existence. And while sometimes a few can get glimpses of them, they remain ignorant (like the heretics in Albion, viewing Slan as a fire goddess).

Ah, figured as much. Seems like that ignorance may be their undoing, following Griffith's lead into the supposed haven they need during these turbulent times.

Aazealh said:
I don't understand what you're saying here. Do you mean Foss knows about the tale of Gaiseric's old capital? Or do you mean he believed Griffith would return, after having had the collective dream of the Falcon of Light? In either case, I don't think he has any particular knowledge of the God Hand. Maybe there are old stories about them that are still around, but if so we haven't been exposed to them yet.

Yeah, it was the former. I just was surprised that Foss seemed to know so much. Especially considering the other story floating around that was told by Charlotte seemed to be far from the real truth, I figured these aristocratic types to mess the stories up.

Aazealh said:
You don't seem to have caught up to the fact the next episode appears to be about Guts.

Ah, I caught onto that, just thought we may see the interior of Griffith's kingdom before moving on to Guts and co. Then again, Miura may want to leave that for later as a surprise.
 
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