Episode 362

[Xenoskell]

You guys here know more about the story of Berserk than I...so I apologize if I make a "obvious" or "noob" comment here.

But one thing I noticed is that the scenario in Eclipse that Skully witnessed is quite different from Griffith’s Eclipse.
It reminded me more about the rare moments showing the Vortex of Souls than anything else.

Also interesting is that the God Hand (the literal Hand) isn't shown.

Ps: the guy at the far left is very similar to Ganishka.

 

[Beelzebud]

Hi, you guys have talked about all possibilities that i can imagine about all that have happened on this awesome episode. Obviously i agree more with some theories than others, but i have nothing to add to the discussion so i standed only reading and appreciating the conversation.

But now i have noticed a detail that can add to this thread, specifically the woman's brand.

This is the brand that appear her skin:

Compared to these:

The brand of Corkus, Judeau and Guts,recently inflicted during the eclipse. All these three looks like a burn on the skin, clearly different than the brand wee see on the woman.

Because of that difference i have two theories that can be an extra point to some theories that you guys already talked about.

First, maybe that difference can be related because she have the brand for a long time, so it looks more like a scar than a recent burn, this can indicate that months, maybe years have passed between the two scenes that Guts experience through the armor.

How long of a gap are you suggesting occurred between those two scenes? We're told Guts experiences Gaiseric's death, which to me implies that not much time passes between them.

Note that i totally agree that these flashback is the death of Gaiseric, but Hanarr said "A blood memory that's seeped into the armor. What cause its previous owner's life to be consumed by the berserker." (i think that this is the Dark Horse translation, so please correct me if it's wrong), When he says "consume" the first thing that i remember is Shcierke trying to prevent Guts from be dominated by the armor, and seeing what Guts are re-experiencing, exactly the counterpart memory that we see from Gaiseric eyes, the encounter with the five.

Other point that reinforces this theory is how the brand changes on Guts itself over the years, here is the brand on episode 201, when Flora talks about it:

The brand now looks more like a scar, just like the woman's brand.

Year -1090 from the current era. Gaiseric conquers the continent. At his side is his trusted right hand man. They eventually have a falling out. In the year 1080, the man, imprisoned in what we know as Saint Albion, calls forth an Occultation ceremony. He becomes Void, and Gaiseric and the woman (maybe among others) are sacrificed. They survive, but are shocked and in bad shape. What's more, they're constantly harassed by evil spirits and the like. With nowhere else to go, they take refuge in Elfhelm. There they heal, and the emperor commands Hanarr, the greatest smith in the land, to create an armor that would allow him to go beyond the limits of man, no matter what the risks are.

However, all that time spent recuperating in Elfhelm means that decades have passed in the outside world. They return to find the continent changed, with a massive city having been built by the new ruler(s). Gaiseric and his allies attempt to stop the terrible event that they feel is about to happen. The God Hand is trying to come into the world, all five members at once. A monumental fight ensues. Gaiseric loses his life, as does the woman. The capital city is destroyed. Four members of the God Hand are killed, but Void is too strong. Out of options, the magic users on Gaiseric's side implement a radical, last resort solution: splitting the astral and corporeal worlds apart. Thus they thwart Void, and his invasion is stopped. But he begins to scheme... 216 years later, an Eclipse ceremony occurs. The Skull Knight appears and manages to throw it off. Void takes notice. That won't happen again.

I think that it fits with these theory.




The Second is related to those comments:

What could've been the purpose for the creation of the brand been? I also believe that he was the one who came up with its symbol but there wasn't really a purpose of sacrificing anyone but that point.

Would be a nice twist if the brand is actually a simplification of the falcon and helix around a staff instead of the other way around (them being a "hidden" picture of the brand).

Maybe the brand on the woman wasn't inflicted the same way that we see during the eclipse, maybe Void when a human cannot conjure the brand the same way because he isn't so powerful, and he needed to manipulate the empire, or just the closest people to him, that this mark it's a good thing, some type of amulet or just a symbol to the empire, and all the brands on that time was inflicted with agreement but not knowing the real purpose of it.

That make senses when we think about how Schierke conjure her spells she need to put some glyphs manually on the correct place. If the human Void need to sacrifice a lot of people, but he can’t mark all of then on the same time, makes senses that he maded a longer preparation and in the certain moment he only needed to activate the brand.


That difference can just be related to Miura style that changed over the years, but i don't think so, he takes the consistencies of his drawing seriously.


I'm not an expert, so what do you think?

 

[Griffith]

Yeah that's the idea. They were engineered so that what they desires fits with the wider goal. Besides, they were reborn using immense amounts of evil power, which we see involves the Vortex in episode 83. In that way they are almost extensions of the Idea of Evil.

I wonder how similar to their "human" selves they remain, because except for Void they're seemingly not nearly as stoic as say, Skull Knight. Slan is a hedonistic sadomasochist, and her Conrad, and Ubik can all be laughing fools when it comes to the misery of others. This is especially relevant to Griffith since despite having been reborn as Femto his human relationships seem to remain largely intact, and not only for show given how he behaves toward them when nobody is looking. Most recently, he seemed genuinely excited to see Rickert, as was noted by others present, and the prospect of him rejoining his cause, and he acknowledged Rickert's point about the difference in the Falcons then and now. All this could just be to maintain his human guise, but he basically already dispensed with that, and the simpler explanation is that what you see is what you get (which makes more dramatic sense as well).

Well Guts was an essential part of Griffith's path to becoming Femto. Arguably more than any other member of the Band of the Falcon. So he absolutely fit into the design in that regard. However his continued survival thereafter is less certain. He is still within the flow of causality, like the Skull Knight has told him, but being branded makes it so that at specific junctions in time he is able to nudge things off the rails a little bit. Like the Skull Knight himself.

Note that things may be a bit different now in Fantasia. We don't know yet if the worlds having merged has loosened the grip of causality over the corporeal world.

BTW, I went back and re-read a lot of great "recent" episodes like the aforementioned meeting with Rickert and the advent of Fantasia and Femto says an interesting thing at the latter about Skull Knight "always" attacking the God Hand at these junctions in time, which could simply mean those are the only opportunities in which he can attack, or that his presence at these events is ubiquitous, which makes sense given Femto was counting on it, but would also lend credence to the idea he's killed God Hand at them before (he certainly expected to kill Femto).

As for causality in the merged world, it would seemingly be a bad trade if the merging technically loosened their power of causality, but then we assume it's a necessary gambit for an ultimate payoff, presumably even more direct, if not omnipotent, power or control, if control will even be necessary once they're finished.

I've gone back and forth on the child. I'm not so sure anymore that he was essential to Griffith's incarnation. His existence, survival, and "accidental" fusion with Femto's vessel seems to be what will eventually bring the God Hand's plan crashing down (along with his parents' – and especially Casca's – survival).

Yeah, I think this was our previous assumption, that the child was a necessary vessel, and it is appealing given Femto's part in the corrupted child's creation, but if it was all part of the plan why put Casca and the child in such peril at all? I mean, there were many occasions she or the child could have perished as a result and it wasn't some agents of fate that intervened, more like dumb luck, or perhaps bad luck for the God Hand that not only did they survive but impacted future events and potentially "corrupting" Femto's incarnation.

Indeed! They're fighting against an overwhelming force... and it has almost won already. But not all hope is lost yet.

I know you've thought pretty much the same, but I don't think we're long for seeing Guts outright kill a God Hand, especially now that it's been established as quite doable. I mean, for all we knew before they were basically invulnerable and Skully and Guts were attempting the impossible. Now we know Skully and his allies either wiped some out en masse or he's been far more successful picking them off at the junctions in time than we've previously known.

I'm not an expert, so what do you think?

It's interesting to consider, but I wouldn't let it dictate our interpretations of events too much. For instance it's not likely those memories are separated by significant time because it's supposed to be the wearer's death (there's no DH translation yet, but I wouldn't trust that completely anyway), so presumably the ceremony we witness is directly connected and the death follows. It's not necessary to your theory either, as she could have been branded at a previous, unseen event, but even still, the look of the brand, unless it's clearly meant to look fresh, is not something I'd consider definitive. It's not insignificant, and does lend credence to the idea she was branded before that time, suggesting she, or they, survived ala Guts and Casca, but it doesn't tell us much else or even exclude the possibility that's when she was branded. As you point out, it could just be a style choice, or intentionally inconclusive so as not to reveal too much to nerds like us (Miura's probably still sore about Aaz noticing Zodd's horn on the horizon at the beach, "Gotta throw off that French bastard" =).

 

[softwhiteroll]

I wonder how similar to their "human" selves they remain, because except for Void they're seemingly not nearly as stoic as say, Skull Knight. Slan is a hedonistic sadomasochist, and her Conrad, and Ubik can all be laughing fools when it comes to the misery of others. This is especially relevant to Griffith since despite having been reborn as Femto his human relationships seem to remain largely intact, and not only for show given how he behaves toward them when nobody is looking. Most recently, he seemed genuinely excited to see Rickert, as was noted by others present, and the prospect of him rejoining his cause, and he acknowledged Rickert's point about the difference in the Falcons then and now. All this could just be to maintain his human guise, but he basically already dispensed with that, and the simpler explanation is that what you see is what you get (which makes more dramatic sense as well).

Do you think Griffith ordered a hit on Rickert because his ego was hurt (which would support your claim that he isn't that much less human now)? I don't know what to think about it really, I would like to think that he wouldn't care to the point of wanting to kill his former companion but at the same time evil flows through his veins now.

 

[Aazealh]

But now i have noticed a detail that can add to this thread, specifically the woman's brand. [...] The brand of Corkus, Judeau and Guts,recently inflicted during the eclipse. All these three looks like a burn on the skin, clearly different than the brand wee see on the woman.

This is a good observation, and no, her brand doesn't look like it was just applied right there and then. However:

this can indicate that months, maybe years have passed between the two scenes that Guts experience through the armor.

I don't think so. I believe it implies she didn't receive it just then. But it doesn't necessarily make it more likely to me that years elapsed between the two scenes we're shown in this episode. What it does suggest is that Gaiseric and the woman might have been sacrificed during another, anterior event (presumably Void's rebirth as a member of the God Hand). Do keep in mind however that we know from volume 10 that people bearing the brand died when the capital city was destroyed, and that changes in art style could also account for the difference in how the Brand is represented here.

Note that i totally agree that these flashback is the death of Gaiseric, but Hanarr said "A blood memory that's seeped into the armor. What cause its previous owner's life to be consumed by the berserker." (i think that this is the Dark Horse translation, so please correct me if it's wrong)

How could this possibly be Dark Horse's translation? This episode just came out in Japan. It will be included in volume 41, which isn't out yet. This is just some random scanlation and you clearly must not be used to actually purchasing the volumes if you thought it could be anything else. So let me just say shame on you, and remind you that not supporting Berserk and its author is technically, in our rules, cause for a ban. You should be doing so if you call yourself a fan! Anyway, this translation isn't very good. I've posted a better one in this thread, and we have a translation for the episode that you can refer to.

I wonder how similar to their "human" selves they remain, because except for Void they're seemingly not nearly as stoic as say, Skull Knight. Slan is a hedonistic sadomasochist, and her Conrad, and Ubik can all be laughing fools when it comes to the misery of others. This is especially relevant to Griffith since despite having been reborn as Femto his human relationships seem to remain largely intact, and not only for show given how he behaves toward them when nobody is looking.

Well... They do rejoice at the suffering of others, but they all sound pretty cold. Like, Femto speaks much more coldly when he's himself than when playing Griffith. I think this is among the reasons why we almost never see inner monologues from him (only regarding the boy, really). I've always assumed he was just playing a role, and I still do. And in fact, his talk with Guts in volume 22 is enlightening on the matter: "It seems I am free". He didn't anticipate the boy's consciousness to still be there, but otherwise his own human feelings aren't there anymore.

BTW, I went back and re-read a lot of great "recent" episodes like the aforementioned meeting with Rickert and the advent of Fantasia and Femto says an interesting thing at the latter about Skull Knight "always" attacking the God Hand at these junctions in time, which could simply mean those are the only opportunities in which he can attack, or that his presence at these events is ubiquitous, which makes sense given Femto was counting on it, but would also lend credence to the idea he's killed God Hand at them before (he certainly expected to kill Femto).

Yeah, the Skull Knight says so himself to Guts in volume 18, he explains that there's a small possibility for unpredicted change during these junctures, and that he bets everything on them for this reason. As for whether he got some of them before... I sure would like to see that in action! I was daydreaming the other day that maybe he once took a shot at a future member of the GH when the ceremony was about to start, but the key offering interposed themselves and died instead, fucking the whole thing up. I found that hypothetical chain of events deliciously ironic.

As for causality in the merged world, it would seemingly be a bad trade if the merging technically loosened their power of causality, but then we assume it's a necessary gambit for an ultimate payoff, presumably even more direct, if not omnipotent, power or control, if control will even be necessary once they're finished.

Yep, exactly.

Yeah, I think this was our previous assumption, that the child was a necessary vessel, and it is appealing given Femto's part in the corrupted child's creation, but if it was all part of the plan why put Casca and the child in such peril at all? I mean, there were many occasions she or the child could have perished as a result and it wasn't some agents of fate that intervened, more like dumb luck, or perhaps bad luck for the God Hand that not only did they survive but impacted future events and potentially "corrupting" Femto's incarnation.

Indeed, and Griffith's precise wording, which Puella pointed out to me a few years ago, also swayed me on the matter. He says the boy was "merged into [the object is omitted], becoming my vessel". While there's some room for interpretation, it does imply the boy could have been a foreign, corrupting element. Something which in itself interestingly mirrors what Femto did to the boy (then a mere embryo) when he raped his mother. It's all a spiral.

I know you've thought pretty much the same, but I don't think we're long for seeing Guts outright kill a God Hand, especially now that it's been established as quite doable. I mean, for all we knew before they were basically invulnerable and Skully and Guts were attempting the impossible. Now we know Skully and his allies either wiped some out en masse or he's been far more successful picking them off at the junctions in time than we've previously known.

Hahaha, well I still don't think it'd be easy, but yeah the time feels right for it. All of those powerful magic users, the Skull Knight and Guts, in the capital city of elves... And maybe even the Moonlight Boy! The odds are literally stacked against the bad guys, so it'd be a perfect time for one of them to arrogant attempt something alone and get defeated... Underlining that, while extremely risky and difficult, "it can be done". A good way to set the group on a path towards Falconia, too.

 

[Griffith]

Do you think Griffith ordered a hit on Rickert because his ego was hurt (which would support your claim that he isn't that much less human now)? I don't know what to think about it really, I would like to think that he wouldn't care to the point of wanting to kill his former companion but at the same time evil flows through his veins now.

Well, my claim would more that maybe they're MORE, not less, human in the worst, most evil ways, but perhaps they still basically reflect who they were rather than being completely above such desires (the sales pitch is whatever your desire, after all).

As for Rickert, I think it was just a practical matter that he was a loose end, knows too much, etc. If anyone was upset it was Locus and Rakshas for the insult to their leader by a nobody. But that's the interesting part to me; Griffith didn't treat him like a nobody, even after the insult. So, the question to me is why and what practical purpose Rickert's loyalty would have served Femto anyway that he brusquely gets out of his seat and excuses himself to meet him. Basically, what was Griffith's, or Femto's, practical interest in an otherwise unknown young man unless it was indeed some form of sentiment (add him to his stable of Golden Age era groupies =)? I mean, it could be as crass as the vanity of once again possessing this person he once did, like he's merely important to Femto because he's a relic of his own history, but it seemingly mattered for some reason that I can't think of a use for unless it was to be leverage in case of an attack from Guts, but that level of concern seems even more far-fetched than he just wanted to reclaim something else he once had.

Well... They do rejoice at the suffering of others, but they all sound pretty cold. Like, Femto speaks much more coldly when he's himself than when playing Griffith. I think this is among the reasons why we almost never see inner monologues from him (only regarding the boy, really). I've always assumed he was just playing a role, and I still do. And in fact, his talk with Guts in volume 22 is enlightening on the matter: "It seems I am free". He didn't anticipate the boy's consciousness to still be there, but otherwise his own human feelings aren't there anymore.

Well, that's the thing, because even if this is technically true it's not how he's consistently presented, and not just when he's playing the human hero. As with the example above and his behavior at the Hill of Swords where his mere presence, let alone his desire to speak with Guts to prove he's over him, is a contradiction. He acts differently then than he does speaking as Femto, not nearly as harsh and cold as you point out, and unless his appearing as human actually has some ameliorating effect, part of the disguise, that's presumably just how he is (the other way of looking at it is he's all-business when he's Femto, that that too is a role he fulfills to an extreme). So, I don't really know, but I think we may give them too much credit for being completely calculating cold fish that are above it all, rather than human-based monsters, when Femto is inviting Rickert to tea parties and Slan is basically trying to fuck Guts like some 200 year old cougar (another possibility I like is they can basically encompass all things; they have no limits). I think part of it is also just a matter of it being more interesting for dramatic purposes; it would be boring if the God Hand, particularly Griffith, didn't really have any personality. The role of the antagonist, for all intents and purposes, is still being played by Griffith, literally and figuratively, he's just also an evil god underneath instead of merely an evil guy, but I don't know that the interpersonal dynamics are fundamentally altered even though the power dynamics should dictate it.

Indeed, and Griffith's precise wording, which Puella pointed out to me a few years ago, also swayed me on the matter. He says the boy was "merged into [the object is omitted], becoming my vessel". While there's some room for interpretation, it does imply the boy could have been a foreign, corrupting element. Something which in itself interestingly mirrors what Femto did to the boy (then a mere embryo) when he raped his mother. It's all a spiral.

Yeah, that's the best part, and really the corruption is more pervasive than we originally imagined with these complete subversions of identity and even physical transformations of a kind. I would have thought it just gave him a soft spot.

Hahaha, well I still don't think it'd be easy, but yeah the time feels right for it. All of those powerful magic users, the Skull Knight and Guts, in the capital city of elves... And maybe even the Moonlight Boy! The odds are literally stacked against the bad guys, so it'd be a perfect time for one of them to arrogant attempt something alone and get defeated... Underlining that, while extremely risky and difficult, "it can be done". A good way to set the group on a path towards Falconia, too.

The build up will be hard, but then that moment when the Dragon Slayer goes right through them and they esplode! It's gonna be so sweet. My money is on Conrad because he or Ubik is up and he'd have the best shocked O face of death. ^0^ "OOOOoooooo!!??"

 

[Aazealh]

As for Rickert, I think it was just a practical matter that he was a loose end, knows too much, etc. If anyone was upset it was Locus and Rakshas for the insult to their leader by a nobody. But that's the interesting part to me; Griffith didn't treat him like a nobody, even after the insult. So, the question to me is why and what practical purpose Rickert's loyalty would have served Femto anyway that he brusquely gets out of his seat and excuses himself to meet him. Basically, what was Griffith's, or Femto's, practical interest in an otherwise unknown young man unless it was indeed some form of sentiment (add him to his stable of Golden Age era groupies =)?

For what it's worth, Silat actually asks Rakshas whether Griffith or Locus sent him, and he doesn't bother replying. It's one of those things we'll only learn about 10 years from now as a detail while bigger things happen and it'll still be a huge deal for some reason we might not yet perceive. =)

Anyway, it might just be a matter of etiquette. Griffith once cared about Rickert as a person, as one of his men who helped him get to where he is. Whereas, who are those people are the table? They're useful, but with the exception of Sonia, not very important. Even poor Charlotte was only ever just a means to an end. It made sense to me that he would rise to meet him. Plus it would have been very awkward to talk to him within earshot of the others, so even from a purely practical perspective it was the right decision.

He acts differently then than he does speaking as Femto, not nearly as harsh and cold as you point out, and unless his appearing as human actually has some ameliorating effect, part of the disguise, that's presumably just how he is (the other way of looking at it is he's all-business when he's Femto, that that too is a role he fulfills to an extreme). So, I don't really know, but I think we may give them too much credit for being completely calculating cold fish that are above it all, rather than human-based monsters, when Femto is inviting Rickert to tea parties and Slan is basically trying to fuck Guts like some 200 year old cougar (another possibility I like is they can basically encompass all things; they have no limits). I think part of it is also just a matter of it being more interesting for dramatic purposes; it would be boring if the God Hand, particularly Griffith, didn't really have any personality.

There's several things going on here I think. First off, I don't believe the members of the God Hand are completely emotionless machine-like entities. They are reborn as different beings, but the core of who they were remains. If Femto acts all cold it's because Griffith was also like that in many ways, and it was in fact his own idealized vision of himself. But he still taunts Guts when he sees him and – I imagine – takes a modicum of pleasure in it, so he's no different from the others in that sense. What mainly defines them all is that they're evil, although they all have their style of course. Void basically speaks like a grandmaster wizard at some evil ceremony, which is... what he is. Slan is a glutton for lurid emotions, Ubik is kind of the goofy one that's easily amused and Conrad is the straightforward guy, just doing his job (Need a plague? An altar raised? Call 666-CONRAD). It also goes along with their respective "domains".

One thing about the difference between Rickert and Guts though: one was offered as a sacrifice, the other was not. Not necessarily a big difference from our perspective or even Rickert's, but likely a meaningful one for Femto.

The build up will be hard, but then that moment when the Dragon Slayer goes right through them and they esplode! It's gonna be so sweet. My money is on Conrad because he or Ubik is up and he'd have the best shocked O face of death. ^0^ "OOOOoooooo!!??"

Haha, I'll take whichever of them Miura gives us really. A tag team of Guts and the Skull Knight against one of them would be such a wonder to behold I'm practically drooling.

 

[Griffith]

For what it's worth, Silat actually asks Rakshas whether Griffith or Locus sent him, and he doesn't bother replying. It's one of those things we'll only learn about 10 years from now as a detail while bigger things happen and it'll still be a huge deal for some reason we might not yet perceive. =)

I just reread all that the other day and it's still great! Pitch perfect, especially the Griffith and Rickert meeting; I can only imagine what Miura has in store for Casca and Guts the next time they see him (maybe it'll even cure Casca's Gutsphobia; "there's the real asshole" =).

Anyway, I'm not convinced it matters whether Griff directly gave the order; once Rickert didn't come into the fold the green light was on. Basically, I think Locus took the initiative and Griffith didn't stop them but the shot of him at the end basically confirms his complicity in it one way or another.

Anyway, it might just be a matter of etiquette. Griffith once cared about Rickert as a person, as one of his men who helped him get to where he is.

That's probably the perfect way to put it, and all I'm basically trying to say. It's a conversation he couldn't have with Guts without it being completely loaded on both sides, whereas here Griffith can only acknowledge Rickert's point about how things have obviously changed despite his pitch of chasing the old dream again, which is interesting because it's maybe the most self-aware acknowledgement by Griffith that's just a sham now, at least other than his creepy Femto shop talk with Skull Knight.

There's several things going on here I think. First off, I don't believe the members of the God Hand are completely emotionless machine-like entities. They are reborn as different beings, but the core of who they were remains. If Femto acts all cold it's because Griffith was also like that in many ways, and it was in fact his own idealized vision of himself.

Yeah, completely agree, and of course Guts would have a much harsher assessment, just monsters pretending to be angels! I'm really hoping now that they've aired their grievances Guts can really start burning Griff's ass by calling him a servant pretending to be a god, etc, "You the raid commander now for the big brain's plans?"

Haha, I'll take whichever of them Miura gives us really. A tag team of Guts and the Skull Knight against one of them would be such a wonder to behold I'm practically drooling.

At first I misread this as Guts and Skully fighting a tag team match against both Conrad and Ubik; now that'd be exciting!

 

[Aazealh]

I just reread all that the other day and it's still great! Pitch perfect, especially the Griffith and Rickert meeting;

That whole segment, from their frantic escape from trolls in the woods to their escape from Rakshas in Falconia, is definitely one of my favorite in the series. Which is impressive given that it's about secondary (if not tertiary) characters.

Basically, I think Locus took the initiative and Griffith didn't stop them but the shot of him at the end basically confirms his complicity in it one way or another.

Yeah that's true, he didn't care enough to intervene one way or another. Appropriately God Hand-like!

That's probably the perfect way to put it, and all I'm basically trying to say. It's a conversation he couldn't have with Guts without it being completely loaded on both sides, whereas here Griffith can only acknowledge Rickert's point about how things have obviously changed despite his pitch of chasing the old dream again, which is interesting because it's maybe the most self-aware acknowledgement by Griffith that's just a sham now, at least other than his creepy Femto shop talk with Skull Knight.

Yeah, I think Rickert's answer is spot on here. And it's also a testament that the "magic" doesn't work on him like it does on others. All in all a very powerful moment.

"You the raid commander now for the big brain's plans?"

Hahaha, I think that could conceivably anger him. Would like to see that.

 

[judeaunt say]

Just wanted to come in here and post about how amazing it is that Miura is constantly able to portray SK w/ varying emotions despite the skull helmet/face, especially the sense of pathos in that last panel. I could just feel the regret, anguish and sadness just from that one look alone.

Completely agree, it's masterful. Although i should say that we had this discussion two episodes ago and I was summarily told i was reading too much into it :\

 

[Aazealh]

Completely agree, it's masterful. Although i should say that we had this discussion two episodes ago and I was summarily told i was reading too much into it :\

I believe the discussion two episodes ago was close to what yota821 said here: the Skull Knight doesn't show emotions per se, since he's an empty suit of armor, however Miura draws him in ways that sometimes seem to convey certain things through angles and lighting. However it's hard to derive anything too conclusive from it most of the time.

 

[judeaunt say]

I believe the discussion two episodes ago was close to what yota821 said here: the Skull Knight doesn't show emotions per se, since he's an empty suit of armor, however Miura draws him in ways that sometimes seem to convey certain things through angles and lighting. However it's hard to derive anything too conclusive from it most of the time.

Of course, the only point is that it is a vehicle for meaning. While the helmet itself does not change, the way it's drawn does. Ultimately, because of Miura's abilities, Skull Knight's helmet can express emotion even though we know his helmet does not change in form like a face would.

This was the relevant quote from that discussion:
>His "face" is not only a skull, therefore incapable of showing any emotion, but it's actually a helmet shaped like a skull. You literally can't derive anything from it.

 

[Aazealh]

This was the relevant quote from that discussion:
>His "face" is not only a skull, therefore incapable of showing any emotion, but it's actually a helmet shaped like a skull. You literally can't derive anything from it.

Indeed, and that was in response to someone saying the Skull Knight's facial expression in episode 360 indicated that he would be announcing "something really bad" to Guts. Which he did not do, he only told him not to relax yet. This illustrates the point nicely.

 

[Griffith]

That whole segment, from their frantic escape from trolls in the woods to their escape from Rakshas in Falconia, is definitely one of my favorite in the series. Which is impressive given that it's about secondary (if not tertiary) characters.

Yeah, I think Rickert's answer is spot on here. And it's also a testament that the "magic" doesn't work on him like it does on others. All in all a very powerful moment.

It's so good it probably makes my expectations too high for the main event because there's certain nuances you can get out of characters like Rickert whereas Guts and Casca have so much more story to move it's hard for them to just sort of ruminate. To put it another way, they and Griffith can't merely attend the same tea party where they agree to disagree.

Hahaha, I think that could conceivably anger him. Would like to see that.

Yeah, and just wait until Guts figures out he can pull a double whammy on Griff with the child by expressing he's no longer angry, just really disappointed.

Seriously though, I'm just looking forward to when they speak again on equal ground; after it becomes clear it's going to come down to one of them in a final duel.

 

[Aazealh]

It's so good it probably makes my expectations too high for the main event because there's certain nuances you can get out of characters like Rickert whereas Guts and Casca have so much more story to move it's hard for them to just sort of ruminate. To put it another way, they and Griffith can't merely attend the same tea party where they agree to disagree.

Haha, I'm not too worried, I imagine Miura has spent years thinking about it. And we might get it soon too, what with the boy being on his way... Maybe the gurus will be like "I'll reveal your true form!" and then immediately regret it.

 

[Pixy Misa]

I finally caught up, and I was hoping for a bit more from all the videos I had in my Youtube feed, but I should've guessed it would be minute at best.

Sad to say I never noticed once that Skull Knight's collar has been broken all this time.

 

[Walter]

but I should've guessed it would be minute at best.

There’s not a single thing “minute” about this episode.

 

[Griffith]

Personally, I was expecting a little more than Gaiseric's death scene and four new God Hand in this one episode.

 

[BrandedWings]

(My theory) is that Void is still the first Godhand, and the people around him in this panel are the first apostles, and that’s why we haven’t seen them cause Skull Knight killed them, but he still can’t kill void. Referring to episode 362

 

[RaffoBaffo]

There are 5 figure at the center of a cerimony of some sort, making 4 of them simple apostle is to random for me.
Also, they "look" like GH, they have the Cenobite feel.

 

[Walter]

It could be that they are apostles. We have literally zero information on these new four figures.

But I don't think it's by accident that Miura arranged a visual symmetry between the group of five in 362 and the group of five we're already familiar with, along with all of the parallels between Gaiseric and Guts being made directly in this episode. And even apart from their number and the equal footing everyone is on, the character designs have the "chitin" motifs that relate back to the God Hand we know.

Volume 34's "Unleash Evil" moment is one example you could use to say "see, Miura's done this before. A God Hand member in the middle, and on equal footing he's surrounded by apostles." But the overall impression the characters in 362 give is like a God Hand group, not four disparate apostles.

I understand that it's convenient to say they're just apostles, because that's a much easier pill to swallow. SK killing four apostles is like a Tuesday for him, but explaining the disappearance of four God Hand members is another thing entirely...

 

[Aazealh]

(My theory) is that Void is still the first Godhand, and the people around him in this panel are the first apostles, and that’s why we haven’t seen them cause Skull Knight killed them, but he still can’t kill void. Referring to episode 362

While I do like the idea of Void being the originator of the God Hand, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, I think it's extremely unlikely that these four could be mere apostles. Whether they were actually "the God Hand", were created the same way, or had the same abilities, we don't know. But they clearly appear to be similar in nature. They could have been an earlier group, a proto-God Hand of sorts, but there's no doubt to me that they were greater than apostles.