It think it wouldn't be as interesting if Griffith couldn't actually experience, see/feel what the Moon Light Boy does and vice versa.
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Episode 363
- Thread starter Heiji-sama
- Start date
That hasn't been addressed in the series yet, so all we can do is guess. The most information we've been given about his awareness is his commentary in Ep 358 before jumping out the window—basically that he knows when the transformation happens.
Either he's fully aware of his surroundings as the boy, but locked away from interacting; or he's completely subdued and unaware. I don't think we have any information that lets us know either way, though.
The other factor here is Zodd's involvement during the boy's first appearance. Does that imply that Griffith gave orders to allow Zodd to transport him as the boy, or did it happen suddenly, and Zodd obeyed because he knew the boy was Griffith. In any case, how'd he know to bring the boy to THAT beach anyway?
I don't think there is any consensus. All we know is that Griffith felt something on the hill of swords when Casca was in danger, and that he is aware of his transformation near/during the full moon. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
Edit. For some reason I didn't see Saltykenny and Walter's responses before I posted.
Damn, always on point. First appearance of the boy was before the branches of the world tree in the sky. That opens a whole can of worms of how the logistics and communication went down. But for certain at least Griffith knew that he was going to change into another person, if he didn't, Zodd had to relay to him after what happened.That hasn't been addressed in the series yet, so all we can do is guess. The most information we've been given about his awareness is his commentary in Ep 358 before jumping out the window—basically that he knows when the transformation happens.
Either he's fully aware of his surroundings as the boy, but locked away from interacting, or he's completely subdued and unaware. I don't think we have any information that lets us know either way, though.
The other factor here is Zodd's involvement during the boy's first appearance. Does that imply that Griffith gave orders to allow Zodd to transport him as the boy, or did it happen suddenly, and Zodd obeyed because he knew the boy was Griffith. In any case, how'd he know to bring the boy to THAT beach anyway?
Did Griffith foresaw the whims of the boy in hill of swords, sensed the boy would soon manifest and have desire to go see his parents and just told Zodd to bring him there, if so why not just restrain the boy into a chamber or some cell, would that put him in a super awkward position?? did he go to the beach before or after turning into the MB, did/could the MB have ordered Zodd? how would Zodd react?
When does the MB sense its the best time to leave? is it Griffiths will overriding his? an unspoken bond? or the boy is just being cautious about having the fifth angel of the god hand manifest at a range that Guts brand can detect him, because if he did turned back into Griffith on that beach before riding on Zodd to go back, Shiercke and Guts would have definetely sensed him? did he went back on the first time, riding on Zodd as the MB or Griffith
So many questions so many possibilities of how this event would unfold in Elfhelm. Griff maybe was bothered the first times but if he does indeed remember the experience he will gain a massive tactical knowledge on his most powerful enemies yet, the magi of Skellig
I for one hope that Griffith cant recall any of the experiences he has in the form of the moonlight boy, he just knows it will happens and awakens after he's himself again, without any memory. All the more to add to his one unique weakness and eventual downfall, lets see causality save your ass when you didn't account for the meek, unpretentious deep bonds and love a child has towards his parents, i hope.
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Nah, it's still just one possibility, I think. What if Zodd saw the transformation happen, for example? Then he'd know that they were one and the same, and he'd obey because it's still his master. As for communication, the boy could have used telepathy, as he's done twice before with Guts, to tell Zodd where to go. But it's not like Miura to surface minute details like that anyway—just a fun thought experiment.
I doubt he had any idea he'd transform into the boy. As for other incidents, I doubt we'll get an answer on that.
He transforms when the full moon appears. The timing is likely the first moment he has control over the body. But apart from that, the boy has appeared before incidents when his parents are in mortal danger, so it just happened to work out that way so far
I dunno, there's something poetic about being forced to witness the hardships caused by his actions. He can't just fly away from that.
Speaking on Grffith, the possible invasion of Elfhelm seems to be another case of depicting the spiraling way of Causality. Re-calling what Morda said in episode 361.
Would be pretty cool if that event from back in the day gets re-called in connection to what is possibly coming with Femto and maybe the demon army.
Regarding the moon light boy I think as he and Femto share a body it’ll be similar for Femto like it was for the boy during the hill of swords. Whether that is only feeling people being there or that they are in danger (e.g. Casca) or fully witnessing or seeing the situation.
So personally I wouldn’t expect Femto to be surprised by Guts’ and Casca’s presence if he should transform back while being with them there on the island. It would maybe finally give us a moment of shock or any similar emotion on his face but I doubt that
. He wasn’t showing extreme emotion by SK’s appearance on Ganiska or from 
. I’d really like to see, though!
So personally I wouldn’t expect Femto to be surprised by Guts’ and Casca’s presence if he should transform back while being with them there on the island. It would maybe finally give us a moment of shock or any similar emotion on his face but I doubt that
. He wasn’t showing extreme emotion by SK’s appearance on Ganiska or from . I’d really like to see, though!I do miss Griffith expressing emotions, he feels more like a plot device these days, there is no really going inside his thoughts anymore, which I guess makes the point of him being more distant stronger. Hopefully him attacking the island won't be done with him just staring at the destruction with a blank face.
I wanted to summarize some of my thoughts on this episode. I've been meaning to post this for two weeks but didn't find the time till now, so I guess it'll serve to cap off the thread. In short, I was impressed by how intricately Miura weaves so many things together.
The Skull Knight and Danan, forebears of Guts and Casca
The scene between the Skull Knight and Danan feels deeply melancholic and I think leaves no real doubt that she embodies – in one way or another – the woman Gaiseric once loved. And their dialogue underlines the fact this love story ended in tragedy. SK's lines in particular reflect on what he's lost, not just materially but in transitioning to the not-quite-alive state he currently exists in. It reminded me of episode 287, when Guts contemplates that his artificial arm, while useful in battle, can never truly replace what he's lost. I really appreciate that Miura takes the time to remind us of the steep price these otherwise badass characters have had to pay. On a different note, it also reminded me of Casca's new sword, given to her by Danan. I still like the idea of it being Gaiseric's old sword, and I believe this hypothesis is made more meaningful by what we now know.
Anyway, this scene between SK and Danan is a great continuation of what we saw during the short flashback in episode 362. And with the boy coming to Guts, it indicates that the armor issue is going to come to a head relatively soon. Guts will have to find a way to avoid repeating Gaiseric's mistakes. He once swore he would never lose Casca again, and I think that commitment will be tested anew... Perhaps more than it ever has. This isn't surprising to any reader who's been paying attention over the years, but it's a solid confirmation of where things are heading. And it's reinforced by SK's words to Danan, which aren't just a commentary on his past but also allude to the fact he's on Skellig because of an impending danger (and not just to visit the grave). It works on two levels. As an aside, I thought it notable that the word "afterglow" (残照) which he uses here is the same as the one used in episode 87: "The afterglow in the right eye".
Parallels between Gaiseric, Guts and Griffith
Tangential to all this are the parallels between Guts and the Skull Knight. This isn't new either: the suspicion that Guts, Griffith, Gaiseric and Void shared a similar but inverted fate (where Gaiseric the conqueror was the one betrayed and sacrificed) is as old as volume 10. However that was just about it until recently, as we lacked the tangible details necessary to speculate with any depth on what had happened in the distant past. This is now changing. Though we've only gotten morsels over the years (Flora, the armor), there's starting to be enough of them for us to discern more than an outline. It started with a bang in episode 362 (glimpses of the ancient Eclipse and of Gaiseric's death), but the information we gleaned from this episode seems equally significant to me, and it feels like it's just the beginning. Things are converging towards a reveal that will coincide with Guts and Casca confronting their own immediate issues.
And the parallels aren't just between Gaiseric and Guts. While there's the armor and the fact the Lady Medium of Cherry Blossoms was to Gaiseric the equivalent of what Casca represents for Guts, we can't ignore that Griffith's life so far has been a kind of artificial recreation of Gaiseric's. The military rise from rags to riches, the capital city, the empire... As if to get it right this time, because the original didn't work out the way someone would have wanted. That someone being Void. It's also something we've known for years, but details have been only been very slowly revealed over time. It now feels like we're on the cusp of grasping what the ultimate goal of the God Hand is, though I imagine Miura will keep doling out information in small doses until the end. Gotta keep us on our toes.
The mediums
One question this episode raised is whether there's a connection between Sonia and the Lady Medium of Cherry Blossoms. The reason? Simple: both of them are referred to as mediums. I've said so before but I believe it's quite possible Gaiseric's lover might have been the one who came up with the prophecy of the Falcon of Darkness. Could she have used the power of the tree to divine the future? To read the flow of causality? One thing we know for sure is that Danan has the ability to foretell certain events, as revealed by Gedflynn in episode 344 (she told him of Puck's return). Anyway, Sonia said in episode 195 that her power gets a lot stronger when she's around Griffith. Maybe he's using his power as a member of the God Hand to amplify hers as an alternative to the "normal" way to do it. This makes the idea that she might come to the island very tantalizing, although at this point it remains pure conjecture.
Another reading for Isidro's segment
I've said so a few times but I really enjoyed the Isidro segment in this episode. It gave me a renewed appreciation for Miura's wit, culture and sense of humor. The action itself and the silliness of the situation does a great job of capturing the sort of "kids' adventure" Miura was going for here. Plus the many jokes, whether it's Ivalera's comments to Molda or Isidro's behavior and expressions that reference stereotypical villains. Even this episode's title might be a reference to the children's game of "leapfrogging" [馬跳び], where you jump over someone's arched back. Fitting, given Isidro's "packaging" technique. But this little vignette also works on another level. It can be seen as allusion to the Skull Knight, the Berserk's armor and by extension, Guts. Isidro's burning desire for revenge after getting humiliated by magic users, his over-the-top behavior which prompts remarks that "neither his movements nor his personality are like that of a human" or that he's "like a beast", and of course his "unescapable fate"... Thematically, it's perfectly aligned with the rest of the story as a kind of subliminal parody of it.
Merrows are elves
One of the things I've really been meaning to talk about is the revelation that merrows are elves. As a reminder, in Berserk benevolent astral beings are called 妖精 (yousei), and that word is associated with the katakana エルフ (elf). Originally the only elves we knew of were like Puck, although Miura hinted at more diversity as early as volume 14, when the Skull Knight tells Guts about Godot's mine. Eventually it was revealed in volume 24 that Puck and his kind are a subspecies called piskies (ピスキー). Dwarves and brownies are other types. Episode 346 showed us the extent of the wider elf family, which is even more diverse than we previously thought. And now it turns out merrows are elves too. Assuming Isma isn't just full of shit (which is, to be frank, a real possibility), this has some fairly big implications.
Previously elves were perceived as relatively distanced from humans, but Isma is the daughter of a merrow and a man. She could be an exception, but every merrow we've seen is female, so that seems to indicate it is the norm. This begs the question of whether there are more connections between the two species that we have yet to learn about. Another interrogation is whether there are elves associated with all four elements. Most of those we've seen are associated with the wind or plants (earth?). Dwarves and the like seem clearly associated with the earth element, and I guess merrows with water. Will we see fire elves in the future too? More generally, I wonder exactly how big the elf family is, and what role it plays amongst other astral beings. Is there an opposition between them and creatures we perceive as evil, like trolls, ogres, hydras, giants and so on? Or is it more complicated than that? There might be an angle there that we're not seeing just yet.
Why did Flora leave?
A few things to finish. I'm as curious as Schierke about why Flora left the island (and why she took the Berserk's armor with her when she did). Did she receive a prophecy all those years ago, or did she just yearn to make a real impact on the world? Her role as a medium assisting the Lady Medium of Cherry Blossoms in her youth is pretty intriguing too, especially since she was living in a spirit tree when we first saw her. Her finding another tree and taking care of it would make sense as a continuation of her duties on the island, assuming she had been tending to the cherry tree there. And then there's the matter of Schierke's origins. We don't need to know them, but it is a card Miura could play... Lastly, the village's seclusion is a compelling mystery in and of itself. I'm eager to find out how it was founded and why, as well as what its relation to Gaiseric's empire was back then.
The Skull Knight and Danan, forebears of Guts and Casca
The scene between the Skull Knight and Danan feels deeply melancholic and I think leaves no real doubt that she embodies – in one way or another – the woman Gaiseric once loved. And their dialogue underlines the fact this love story ended in tragedy. SK's lines in particular reflect on what he's lost, not just materially but in transitioning to the not-quite-alive state he currently exists in. It reminded me of episode 287, when Guts contemplates that his artificial arm, while useful in battle, can never truly replace what he's lost. I really appreciate that Miura takes the time to remind us of the steep price these otherwise badass characters have had to pay. On a different note, it also reminded me of Casca's new sword, given to her by Danan. I still like the idea of it being Gaiseric's old sword, and I believe this hypothesis is made more meaningful by what we now know.
Anyway, this scene between SK and Danan is a great continuation of what we saw during the short flashback in episode 362. And with the boy coming to Guts, it indicates that the armor issue is going to come to a head relatively soon. Guts will have to find a way to avoid repeating Gaiseric's mistakes. He once swore he would never lose Casca again, and I think that commitment will be tested anew... Perhaps more than it ever has. This isn't surprising to any reader who's been paying attention over the years, but it's a solid confirmation of where things are heading. And it's reinforced by SK's words to Danan, which aren't just a commentary on his past but also allude to the fact he's on Skellig because of an impending danger (and not just to visit the grave). It works on two levels. As an aside, I thought it notable that the word "afterglow" (残照) which he uses here is the same as the one used in episode 87: "The afterglow in the right eye".
Parallels between Gaiseric, Guts and Griffith
Tangential to all this are the parallels between Guts and the Skull Knight. This isn't new either: the suspicion that Guts, Griffith, Gaiseric and Void shared a similar but inverted fate (where Gaiseric the conqueror was the one betrayed and sacrificed) is as old as volume 10. However that was just about it until recently, as we lacked the tangible details necessary to speculate with any depth on what had happened in the distant past. This is now changing. Though we've only gotten morsels over the years (Flora, the armor), there's starting to be enough of them for us to discern more than an outline. It started with a bang in episode 362 (glimpses of the ancient Eclipse and of Gaiseric's death), but the information we gleaned from this episode seems equally significant to me, and it feels like it's just the beginning. Things are converging towards a reveal that will coincide with Guts and Casca confronting their own immediate issues.
And the parallels aren't just between Gaiseric and Guts. While there's the armor and the fact the Lady Medium of Cherry Blossoms was to Gaiseric the equivalent of what Casca represents for Guts, we can't ignore that Griffith's life so far has been a kind of artificial recreation of Gaiseric's. The military rise from rags to riches, the capital city, the empire... As if to get it right this time, because the original didn't work out the way someone would have wanted. That someone being Void. It's also something we've known for years, but details have been only been very slowly revealed over time. It now feels like we're on the cusp of grasping what the ultimate goal of the God Hand is, though I imagine Miura will keep doling out information in small doses until the end. Gotta keep us on our toes.
The mediums
One question this episode raised is whether there's a connection between Sonia and the Lady Medium of Cherry Blossoms. The reason? Simple: both of them are referred to as mediums. I've said so before but I believe it's quite possible Gaiseric's lover might have been the one who came up with the prophecy of the Falcon of Darkness. Could she have used the power of the tree to divine the future? To read the flow of causality? One thing we know for sure is that Danan has the ability to foretell certain events, as revealed by Gedflynn in episode 344 (she told him of Puck's return). Anyway, Sonia said in episode 195 that her power gets a lot stronger when she's around Griffith. Maybe he's using his power as a member of the God Hand to amplify hers as an alternative to the "normal" way to do it. This makes the idea that she might come to the island very tantalizing, although at this point it remains pure conjecture.
Another reading for Isidro's segment
I've said so a few times but I really enjoyed the Isidro segment in this episode. It gave me a renewed appreciation for Miura's wit, culture and sense of humor. The action itself and the silliness of the situation does a great job of capturing the sort of "kids' adventure" Miura was going for here. Plus the many jokes, whether it's Ivalera's comments to Molda or Isidro's behavior and expressions that reference stereotypical villains. Even this episode's title might be a reference to the children's game of "leapfrogging" [馬跳び], where you jump over someone's arched back. Fitting, given Isidro's "packaging" technique. But this little vignette also works on another level. It can be seen as allusion to the Skull Knight, the Berserk's armor and by extension, Guts. Isidro's burning desire for revenge after getting humiliated by magic users, his over-the-top behavior which prompts remarks that "neither his movements nor his personality are like that of a human" or that he's "like a beast", and of course his "unescapable fate"... Thematically, it's perfectly aligned with the rest of the story as a kind of subliminal parody of it.
Merrows are elves
One of the things I've really been meaning to talk about is the revelation that merrows are elves. As a reminder, in Berserk benevolent astral beings are called 妖精 (yousei), and that word is associated with the katakana エルフ (elf). Originally the only elves we knew of were like Puck, although Miura hinted at more diversity as early as volume 14, when the Skull Knight tells Guts about Godot's mine. Eventually it was revealed in volume 24 that Puck and his kind are a subspecies called piskies (ピスキー). Dwarves and brownies are other types. Episode 346 showed us the extent of the wider elf family, which is even more diverse than we previously thought. And now it turns out merrows are elves too. Assuming Isma isn't just full of shit (which is, to be frank, a real possibility), this has some fairly big implications.
Previously elves were perceived as relatively distanced from humans, but Isma is the daughter of a merrow and a man. She could be an exception, but every merrow we've seen is female, so that seems to indicate it is the norm. This begs the question of whether there are more connections between the two species that we have yet to learn about. Another interrogation is whether there are elves associated with all four elements. Most of those we've seen are associated with the wind or plants (earth?). Dwarves and the like seem clearly associated with the earth element, and I guess merrows with water. Will we see fire elves in the future too? More generally, I wonder exactly how big the elf family is, and what role it plays amongst other astral beings. Is there an opposition between them and creatures we perceive as evil, like trolls, ogres, hydras, giants and so on? Or is it more complicated than that? There might be an angle there that we're not seeing just yet.
Why did Flora leave?
A few things to finish. I'm as curious as Schierke about why Flora left the island (and why she took the Berserk's armor with her when she did). Did she receive a prophecy all those years ago, or did she just yearn to make a real impact on the world? Her role as a medium assisting the Lady Medium of Cherry Blossoms in her youth is pretty intriguing too, especially since she was living in a spirit tree when we first saw her. Her finding another tree and taking care of it would make sense as a continuation of her duties on the island, assuming she had been tending to the cherry tree there. And then there's the matter of Schierke's origins. We don't need to know them, but it is a card Miura could play... Lastly, the village's seclusion is a compelling mystery in and of itself. I'm eager to find out how it was founded and why, as well as what its relation to Gaiseric's empire was back then.
I'm really looking forward to see how Miura will display Moonlight Boy personality in this encounter with Guts. From the short moments we have seen its just an innocent child but I find it unlikely that Miura's intention will go as in Vol 28 "Boy in the Moonlight"
Lots of people are deluded with Femto believing he's still Griffith with all his human traits... but no, he's a God Hand Member. But why did he let Rickert escape, maybe because he didnt felt any sort of danger towards him? Or repeating the same trait as in episode 179 with Casca?
Lots of people are deluded with Femto believing he's still Griffith with all his human traits... but no, he's a God Hand Member. But why did he let Rickert escape, maybe because he didnt felt any sort of danger towards him? Or repeating the same trait as in episode 179 with Casca?
I don't understand what you mean. The boy is Guts and Casca's son. We've seen him save his father's life inside the Sea God, and before that he's intervened to prevent disaster when he was using the Berserk's armor. He also appeared to him countless times during the Black Swordsman era and never showed any aggression. It's unlikely to begin now.
I don't think anyone on this forum is deluded about Griffith's current nature. That being said, while Femto has taken over the boy's body, he hasn't erased his consciousness. The boy has his own will. The events you refer to, on the Hill of Swords, are the first and clearest evidence of that fact. Griffith felt the boy's feelings stir up as he watched Guts fight Zodd, and when Casca was faced with mortal danger, he actually compelled him to move to protect her. This obviously doesn't apply to Rickert, and these two things shouldn't be conflated. Not to mention that Rickert only narrowly escaped death in Falconia.