Episode 364

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Hello Mish! Yeah I've been thinking for some years now that the ending would revolve around the separation of Femto from the boy (so that Guts can properly kick his ass). How that would take place however is not entirely clear yet at this point in the story. I don't think it'd be an exorcism in the Catholic sense, but a ritual could indeed be involved. We were talking about it in the chat yesterday, and I was saying I could see how Farnese and Casca for example could have to undertake something of the sort. A key element for it might be the mana ("true name") of the boy, a concept that was introduced in episode 324.
I wonder how they would find out the boy's "true name"? I guess that comes down to how exactly the mana works. Like did the kid have one from birth or could Casca give the boy his mana now? Besides that, I was wondering what exactly to call the boy's and Femto's coexistence. It's obviously not like the possession we have seen in the series like what happened to Farnese or Guts. It's a unique thing. If they were to separate them tough then I don't think the kid would keep his powers right? Also, sorry for just asking a bunch of questions.
 

Walter

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I wonder how they would find out the boy's "true name"? I guess that comes down to how exactly the mana works. Like did the kid have one from birth or could Casca give the boy his mana now?
There's a potentially revealing moment on the ship, Ep 324, just after Ivalera explained to the group about mana. They're talking about Isma, but the panel is framed around Casca and the boy.

truenamemom.png


Serpico: But it's strange.
Serpico: Who could (know) her real name that even she herself didn't know?
 

Aazealh

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I wonder how they would find out the boy's "true name"? I guess that comes down to how exactly the mana works. Like did the kid have one from birth or could Casca give the boy his mana now?

Indeed, that is a question we do not have an answer to. The two main possibilities are those you state: he has one innately from birth or Casca would name him and that would serve as the mana. If he has a secret astral name already, then presumably Casca could either already know it instinctively or find it out later (either on her own or with Danan's help).

Besides that, I was wondering what exactly to call the boy's and Femto's coexistence. It's obviously not like the possession we have seen in the series like what happened to Farnese or Guts. It's a unique thing. If they were to separate them tough then I don't think the kid would keep his powers right?

This is another great question. It is indeed unique and nothing at all like when evil spirits temporarily possess humans. It's also another matter where we don't have clear answers. My belief is that the boy was introduced in Femto's incarnation process when he shouldn't have. At that most delicate time when causality converges and anything can happen, the Beherit Apostle took pity and decided to swallow the dying baby.

What he said then is extremely important in my opinion:

At least,
Taking the new world inside me as a cradle,
Dream.


This translation is courtesy of @puella. Dark Horse completely messed up those lines, unfortunately.

Because he was absorbed, his body was transformed into that of the new Griffith, providing a vessel into which Femto could be incarnated. Griffith recognizes that in volume 22. Here is what he thinks then, again courtesy of Puella:

...These are maybe the thoughts of the baby, who was merged into [omitted], becoming my vessel.

Now, we don't know what Femto's incarnation process was supposed to be. Was a physical body necessary at all, or would have one arisen from nothing within the "egg"? We don't know. But what's clear is that the boy underwent a profound transformation. And that he's not just borrowing Femto's power.

You see, when he first showed up in volume 28, it's quickly made clear that he's not associated with "evil power". The Brand doesn't react to him and Schierke doesn't sense any danger. Yet he's a "jñanin", a superior being. Then in this episode we just learned that it's more than not being evil: he's actually similar to the elves and has an affinity with them. Like I said on the podcast, that's the biggest reveal of the episode by far to me.

So to go back to your question: I do think he might actually keep his powers, because they're just not the same as Femto's. It's not certain of course at this point, and it all depends on what exactly happened inside the Beherit Apostle and how these two entities, Femto and the boy, are tied together. But I'm convinced, at the very least, that he would be able to recover his body, and that it would remain in its current form (and not revert to its original, corrupted form).

The last thing I want to point out is the connection between episodes 165 and 364. From the line I quoted above, the apostle tells the baby to dream at the end of volume 20. Which is just what Griffith says in this episode as he transforms back, that he was dreaming. So in a way, what the boy is doing is precisely what he was told he could do. The circle is complete.
 
. Like did the kid have one from birth or could Casca give the boy his mana now? Besides that, I was wondering what exactly to call the boy's and Femto's coexistence.

I believe it is at least comparable to the werewolf conditions in european folklore (they even share the same trope of the transformation at full moon nights), but even then, it's something more unique, because Phemto it's not simply a "other side" or aspect of the moonlight boy, but actually incarnated in the dead fetus vessel and reborn, so I would say that the body is of the moonlight boy as much as is of Griffith, even if they share within it different souls and od.


I also wonder what the Jananin spirit role will have at this point. I believe we can pretty much safely assume Jananin is just another form of the moonlight boy, even if this was only suggested and not explicitly shown clearly as the identity between the boy and Griffith in this episode, right?
 
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Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
It sounds like the boy wasn't merely a glitch, but potentially a counterpart to Griffith's current incarnation, a big good to his big bad, especially if you believe there's sort of a balancing act going on between good and evil here that the God Hand have been trying to upend in their favor.

Speaking of what the boy's name was, the closest "official" one we have for a child of Casca is Griffith's vision before the Eclipse, where he's named after Pippin. That sort of eliminates it as a possibility of course, and I'm sure he'd have a completely unique name, but that's the precedent were left with. It's at least interesting Griffith sort of named a theoretical child with Casca just before Femto corrupted her's and Guts' and became a kind of pseudo-parent or genetic contributer, and party to his creation at both ceremonies.
 
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Aazealh

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actually incarnated in the dead fetus vessel and reborn, so I would say that the body is of the moonlight boy as much as is of Griffith, even if they share within it different souls and od.

Incarnation means "taking flesh", as in a spirit receiving a corporeal body. Femto was an astral being before, but was incarnated. As for whose body it is, while a radical transformation took place, we do know who the original body belonged to (the boy), since we clearly see the transition occur.

I also wonder what the Jananin spirit role will have at this point. I believe we can pretty much safely assume Jananin is just another form of the moonlight boy, even if this was only suggested and not explicitly shown clearly as the identity between the boy and Griffith in this episode, right?

Jñanin is just a one time title used to refer to the boy. In fact it's not even used in the story, only in an episode title. So it's not a "role" or a "form", I'm not sure where you got that idea from. It refers specifically to the boy.

Speaking of what the boy's name was, the closest "official" one we have for a child of Casca is Griffith's vision before the Eclipse, where he's named after Pippin.

Actually, Pippin is the dog's name in the dream, the boy is called Guts. And the real Guts is just "that guy from long ago". But yeah I don't think that matters much for the real boy's true name.
 
So it's not a "role" or a "form"

Well, the moonlight boy doesn't talk, Jnanin does. moonlight is apparently just a regular boy which is oblivious of what is around him, Jananin is, I guess, an incorporeal and very intelligent spirit that talk directly to somebody own mind/soul. In that sense I meant it's another "form", in a similar fashion we both have the form of the body and one of the soul/spirit (for those who believe it).

As for the role, I apologize, I must had used a poor choice of words. What I meant, it is simply if the boy will appear again in that special "form/appareance" to Guts or Caska like it did in the past in order to save him / recover his sanity, or could even unleash more powers that we're still unaware of.
 

Walter

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Well, the moonlight boy doesn't talk, Jnanin does.
Just FYI, ジャンアーニン can be Romanized as Jñānin. Those little diacritical marks are important, because it relates to a real-world term. I wrote a post about it a few years back relating to why Miura may have selected that term.

And I don't think it's very useful to think of it as separate from the boy. If I had to use a word to describe it, I'd just say that the shining body we've seen the boy use is an astral projection (Schierke calls it Body of Light), not unlike in basis from what we've seen Schierke and Farnese do.
 
And I don't think it's very useful to think of it as separate from the boy. If I had to use a word to describe it, I'd just say that the shining body we've seen the boy use is an astral projection (Schierke calls it Body of Light), not unlike in basis from what we've seen Schierke and Farnese do.

Do you believe the moonlight boy it's conscious to have and use this astral projection at hiw own will anytime and have memory of this? How we're sure, it's not in a more similar fashion of, let's say Griffith subconsciously saving Caska in the Hill of Sword, something that trigger in the moment of need but he's not normally aware of?
 

Walter

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Do you believe the moonlight boy it's conscious to have and use this astral projection at hiw own will anytime and have memory of this? How we're sure, it's not in a more similar fashion of, let's say Griffith subconsciously saving Caska in the Hill of Sword, something that trigger in the moment of need but he's not normally aware of?
Yes. The boy does this knowingly. Why wouldn't he? We see this happen on the beach in v28, on the island in v36, and in particular on the ship in v37. If you pay close attention to the scene, you'll see the boy looking concerned that Guts hadn't returned yet, and Schierke was unable to rescue him. Then that form appears exactly when and where it needs to, saving the day, as it always does (saves the parents).

I can't think of a reason to suggest the boy is unaware or unable to control this aspect of his power.
 
I can't think of a reason to suggest the boy is unaware or unable to control this aspect of his power.

Well, the boy acts in a childish and oblivious manner like any regular boy of his age, that's why (for me) it's hard to think it can suddendly talk and save guts and know exactly what to do in his astral form in a snap of finger anytime.

If that's the case, do you believe the boy never talk because nobody ever teached to him the language of mens (and probably don't even understand what people say around him, no more than a cat or dog understanding anyway) and is able to speak only in "soul language" to others souls, or he is silence on purpose and "share" maybe something of Griffith intelligence?
 

Aazealh

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Well, the boy acts in a childish and oblivious manner like any regular boy of his age, that's why (for me) it's hard to think it can suddendly talk and save guts and know exactly what to do in his astral form in a snap of finger anytime.

He talks and acts like a child when in his astral form as well. Guts even comments on it in volume 37. And he can look quite serious when just in his human body. This really isn't a viable basis for the idea that a third entity could exist within that body.
 

Walter

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Well, the boy acts in a childish and oblivious manner like any regular boy of his age, that's why (for me) it's hard to think it can suddendly talk and save guts and know exactly what to do in his astral form in a snap of finger anytime.

If that's the case, do you believe the boy never talk because nobody ever teached to him the language of mens (and probably don't even understand what people say around him, no more than a cat or dog understanding anyway) and is able to speak only in "soul language" to others souls, or he is silence on purpose and "share" maybe something of Griffith intelligence?
To be clear, the boy appears to be using thought transference, like how Schierke communicates with Guts from afar using her hair as a medium. No need for something esoteric like "soul language," since there's already an established concept. The boy has been on his own since birth, and was never taught to formally speak like humans, so he probably can't do the mouth movements.

As for why the boy acts like a child, it's because he is. He's around 4 years old, and that's how he acts. He also acts like a child through his astral projection with Guts when they're within the Sea God. But in the brief moments that he is astrally projecting, it's a life or death moment where he's rescuing his parents. Not exactly the time or place to be playing games. Beyond that, it's pretty clear the child is intelligent and mysteriously powerful. Look at... well.. really ANY scene that he's in, but you could pick the moment when he surreptitiously repels the crocodiles from the cabin on the beach. The boy knows exactly what he's doing.

I think considering them as separate beings is a simple misconception. Ever since it was born, the demon child has been protecting Guts and Casca from dangers. Then it acquired the ability to turn into a human boy appropriate to its age, and the power to help from afar, and it continues to do so.
 
To be clear, the boy appears to be using thought transference, like how Schierke communicates with Guts from afar using her hair as a medium. No need for something esoteric like "soul language," since there's already an established concept.

Yes, by "soul language" I just want to meant the mental communication, again a poor choice of words. You're right, the astral projection acts like a child in the sea god arc, I forgot that detail, my memory was all about against the pishaka battle of volume 28, and at my eyes he looked more mature there.

Forgive also my mis-transcription of certain words, the often poor translation of berserk in my original language didn't help either unfortunately, I will pay more attention on this. What do you suggest is the most faithful and overall accurate english translation of Berserk?

Also, thank you for all the clarifications, apparently I was making wrong assumptions, and this confrontation did enlighted me. ^^
 
I got my print magazine in the mail yesterday and probably spent over an hour taking my time with the episode. It was very nice. The messages booklet and two-sided poster were very thoughtful as well. Miura sensei was an incredible man.

It's been over five years since I last logged in here. I just wanted to say thank you all for being a part of this community. Being able to come here and witness the positive impact that Miura sensei's work had on people warms my heart.

And this last episode... so powerful.
 
I apologize if this isn't the right place to post this.

Wanted to give my thanks to everyone on the forum for everything Berserk over the years. Especially to Az and Walter for answering any questions I had on Berserk. I got my copy of Young Animal yesterday and it made me feel very emotional. I'm really gonna miss this series.

I'm gonna miss you Miura. Thank you for making Berserk.
 

Aazealh

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Wanted to give my thanks to everyone on the forum for everything Berserk over the years. Especially to Az and Walter for answering any questions I had on Berserk. I got my copy of Young Animal yesterday and it made me feel very emotional. I'm really gonna miss this series.

I'm gonna miss you Miura. Thank you for making Berserk.

You're welcome, but Berserk won't disappear. We still have 41 volumes of the best series ever.

one of the Messages to Miura booklets has a big bar code stuck in the middle of the title.

It can be removed; left no mark on mine.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Actually, Pippin is the dog's name in the dream, the boy is called Guts. And the real Guts is just "that guy from long ago".

"...that I named my son after." :ganishka:

Anyway, oof, I transposed them in my memory; obviously past time for a refresher. So much disrespect to Guts on my part too, though him as the dog would have been prescient.

But yeah I don't think that matters much for the real boy's true name.

Right, but this did give me a more viable nickname for the kid so I don't just have to think of him as "The Moonlight Boy" or "the boy": Junior. :guts:
 
I think considering them as separate beings is a simple misconception. Ever since it was born, the demon child has been protecting Guts and Casca from dangers. Then it acquired the ability to turn into a human boy appropriate to its age, and the power to help from afar, and it continues to do so.
its clear the boy has always protected his parents as you pointed out, thats clear, what i'm more interested is the nature of the boy itself, as its been pointed out, the boy has a fairy-like aura or something, but what i dont get is why he would be like that, since the boy was corrupted by femto, shouldnt he had more of a demonic presence ?, maybe the merge with griffith elevated him to a higher being, something like a demi-god, that being the reason why he can perform astral projections between other abilities he have been shown to have.

I dont know if i make myself clear this is something that it has been on my mind for i while so maybe i need to polish this idea and make a theory out of it.
 
Hey guys, new posting but longtime lurker for years. I wanted to thank everyone on this site and community for sharing great info and news of this likely last volume.

Berserk is by far my favorite manga of all time, I've read for possibly a decade now and I was just as upset as you guys when I heard him pass.

Anyhow, I'll likely go back to lurking or sporatically post, but just wanted to tell you guys you're great and there is a possibly a large silent majority who appreciate it as well.

Thank You!
 
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