Episode 369

It's not like they're sleeping on the job as it is. I'm sure they're already doing their best. It's just that their best isn't enough. It's not an indictment, but we knew from the beginning that no one was going to be able to continue Berserk like Miura did.
I do think they're doing their best as well.
But good feedback can always point someone to a better direction.

For example, I have an art Discord where everyone is constantly asking for feedback.
Most of the artists there have improved a lot after listening to solid criticism (including me).

Now, I know this is very different than a legendary manga whose author have passed away. But nevertheless, they are asking for feedback from the episodes, so they're probably open to both praise and criticism (whether or not they will change something according to that is another story though).

Having said that, I already knew that the storytelling wouldn't be the same without Miura (like I said in another thread).
The guy was master at storytelling, he knew how to keep the reader engaged and experiment with a lot of different ideas.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
I can't help but address and put some focus back on puella's all-star, mic drop post:

Since the continuation started, I've come to expect frustration with each release, and now I've even gotten used to it. :judo:

It almost feels like a tragicomedy, of which one of those ancient God Hand members reminds me. You know the one. Sometimes I think of it like a beautiful garden that had been well taken care of, and that is now messed up by squatters.

The non-word "traveshamockery" actually entered my head the other day thinking about this. And it's a natural human response to resent something lesser that's taking the place of someone or something you care about. In a way this continuation only serves to hurt us more with thoughts of "what could have been?" Except we weren't going to get more from Miura in any case. It only feels like they've replaced his work with something lesser. The reality is they're merely filling a void left by his death, which this will unfortunately continue to make us acutely aware of. Still, knowing that doesn't make it feel any less rotten, but I kind of hate bashing it, ostensibly bashing "Berserk" on SK.net of all things, for objectively not living up to Miura's incredible standards. Fair or not, eventually it's just repeating the obvious.

However, I'd like to share a different outlook for it.

From the beginning, I thought an illustrated book with Miura's storyline would be ideal, like many people here. But they insisted on doing a "manga", which is too much for them. In spite of that, I've come to see the continuation as little more than illustrations for Mori's summary of what he heard from Miura. What a discovery!

We've been unsatisfied with many of the details, but I don't think it's wise to demand more focus on those. Details are not a minor thing, it's what only Miura could provide. The nature of the continuation is to convey the parts of the story Mori heard from Miura. Nothing more.

Wise and beautiful and words puella, it couldn't be said better, and with acknowledgement and deference to the different perspectives readers are bringing to this and taking from it, and also the dark feelings we're wrestling with as mentioned above. Thank you for this.

I think it should stay simple and even laconic. If anything I'm rather afraid that Mori might decide to flesh things out with his own ideas if the readers keep complaining about the work. And I do hope they're not planning to keep going for a long time. The shorter, the better!

I also fear that they'll take the wrong lesson from fan backlash and try to "jazz it up" for coherency or readability and only make things worse. This really should have been a short miniseries you read after finishing the manga for closure; like, clearly NOT part of Berserk, but a separate companion piece or book about how it roughly would have gone. I hope that's essentially what it evolves into over time, in our hearts and minds if not in the way its packaged.
 
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And like Game of Thrones, I'm really fearing the effect this is going to have on the manga's legacy. Game of Thrones was popular and beloved up until the very end which ruined the entire show in everyone's eyes and tainted the franchise.
Honestly, I wouldn't worry too much about that (yet). Even though many of us here are hating what Berserk has become without Miura, the general opinion about it seems to be very positive so far. Unlike GoT, where positive opinions were definitely the minority in Season 8.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
This really should have been a short miniseries you read after finishing the manga for closure; like, clearly NOT part of Berserk, but a separate companion piece or book about how it roughly would have gone.
Indeed. Sort of like what they did with Duranki, though that was more like the initial story scope, not the “what could have been.”
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Indeed. Sort of like what they did with Duranki, though that was more like the initial story scope, not the “what could have been.”

Maybe I'll come to compartmentalize the continuation like the Berserk prototype at the end of volume 14; it's in the volumes, but is clearly its own thing related to the work in question. This is "Berserk: The Post-type" in many ways; a postscript, a postmortem, and, most unfortunately, posthumous.
 
The broad strokes is what i cared about the most, and it's also what i expected to mainly see even though i did wish it would be more than how they were displayed thus far.

I think the general plot points can be taken away, while at the same time i just try to see the continuation for what it is and know that with Miura it would have been a completely different experience in regards to how it would flow.

Just from the general plot points that we have seen, it seems like this is what was awaiting us under Miura:
  • Guts is unable to land a blow with the DS on Griffith
  • Griffith destroys the tree
  • Casca gets abducted
  • The destruction of the tree bears a brutal consequence for the inhabitats of the island
There are obviously many more things that could have potentially been adressed, but that Miura never specified on, so the team just left it as it is, not trying to go against his word or fill in the blanks too much.

Some examples of what i mean
  • Was Guts able to control the armor?
  • What was the actual extent of Skull Knights role in this climax?
  • Was Sonia supposed to be in Elfhelm as well and maybe even other apostles?
  • Would the inhabitants of Elfhelm been able to prepare a defence or was this supposed to be a sucker punch from the beginning?
  • How much more lore in regards to the past would we have witnessed during this stretch?

Honestly the list goes on, since many other things were set up along the way, but with the simple realization that some of these questions will never get answered i can still view these new episodes with the pleasure of atleast getting to see the general scope of things. It's not ideal, and an illustrative book would have been a more efficient and respectable option, but it is what it is. I still find excitement in imagining in how these things would have looked under Miura, but i also have to say is that i still prefer this over getting nothing at all.

That's not to say that these new releases shouldn't be criticized, but it would certainly be easier for the readers if they got insight on how much the team knows about the future. How much and what exactly was left by Miura for the team and Mori to work on.

Now when it comes to the release, the prospect of the elfs disappearing after the destruction of the tree got me really excited. Not only is it a very cruel result of Griffiths appereance on an island used to peace, it also makes you wonder what else is planned for the rest of the astral creatures in Fantasia.

I do hope we get more insight on the next episode, since it will also be the finale of the Elf Island chapter. Now that the threat is gone, it should be more of an aftermath esque release, which makes me curious on how they will handle scenes like that where dialogue is in most cases unavoidable... we will see though.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
What struck me first with this episode is the light it casts on the previous one. Isidro's exchange with the Skull Knight, for example, felt meaningless and out of character for both of them. The aftermath shown here emphasizes how pointless it was by depicting Isidro running away with every other refugee (wasn't he going to fight?) while the Skull Knight stays alone somewhere, fruitlessly slashing at the ooze, achieving nothing of value. Maybe he could have used his beherit sword technique to siphon it away or something, but no. He doesn't even accompany them to safety.

Gnawing on a nothingburger

But what of that first page, with Guts down in some cave, surrounded by the ooze as it strangely talks to him and doesn't attack? That held some allure in episode 368. Well it's nothing. I've seen people say he remains motionless the whole time, and it does look like that because he's never clearly shown moving. But pages 3 and 4 actually seem to depict him getting out of that hole and back up to ground level... just in time for everything to collapse behind him.

The way it's drawn, it looks like he would fall down too, and maybe he does, it's not clear. It's all just done very confusingly. All we know is he ends up somewhere alone at the end, still prostrated in front of his sword, but completely unharmed, with not even a mote of dust on him. If the Skull Knight had been using the beherit sword, one might have deduced he actually grabbed Guts and took him to safety, given the weird transition on that page. But he's not, so he didn't. Unless of course the team forgot to draw the proper sword.
:shrug:


These questions sound inane, and yet they cannot be discounted. That is the result of the poor execution that's unfortunately become associated with the continuation. Why was Guts spared both by the thing that's destroyed literally everything else, and by the island's collapse? No idea. He just had to, so he did. Will we get a clue at some point in the future? Maybe. Maybe not.

Of course, the "gnawers" were met with their own ignominious end: they simply vanished by themselves once the island was (mostly) destroyed. Where did they come from? What were they exactly? How were they created? How did Femto trigger them, and how could they destroy everything so rapidly? Same as above. We don't know, and we can only hope that we'll get thrown a bone in the future. Maybe if the next chapter opens with a flashback to ancient times. It certainly would be an appropriate time for it.

One thing to keep in mind though is what you could call the Zodd effect. The way Mori & staff seem to be handling things is that they don't hesitate to bring in something into a scene, have it play a precise role, and then discard it without explanation. It could become a recurring pattern as they power through various plot points, which makes me wary of forming assumptions about what we'll get to see or not. Unfortunately it also makes it less interesting for me to cogitate about these developments.

A disjointed story flow

As far as the episode itself goes, it's back to a very disjointed flow, with the story skipping forward in time at the end of page 7. At first glance, it can look like it fast forwards to the crack of dawn, but that might actually just be the light from the formation of the four cardinal points that illuminates everything. Anyway, if done properly this time skip could have been an opportunity to leave the bulk of the evacuation and survival to the readers' imagination, but they went at it differently, showing us a bunch of unconnected vignettes.

I'll list the main ones since some people seemed confused by what was happening:

- Schierke and Farnese isolated up there with the tree house
- Puck still watching the island's destruction passively from above
- A shot of the mushroom cove (for the Corridor of Dreams) being flooded
- Isidro and Serpico leading many magicians to safety
- Guts down in the crevice, feeling bad he couldn't hit Griffith
- Guts has seemingly climbed out of his hole, but falls to his knees again as the ground crumbles
- SK slashing at the ooze
- The throne room crumbling
- The island sinking underwater
- Someone casting the formation of the four cardinal points
- Roderick getting aboard the Sea Horse and throwing barrels and crates overboard
- Cut to the aftermath

All this for that

This is frustrating to me because it paints a very incomplete picture while at the same time cementing the fact nothing special actually happens. The Skull Knight does not save the day. The four Great Gurus, master magicians from a thousand years ago, do not save the day. As a reminder, the formation of the four cardinal points, where you call upon the protection of the four elemental kings, is a beginner spell. That's why it's the first one Farnese learned. It took her 3 months to learn.

The island is filled with witches who can fly on brooms, magic scholars who excel in specific fields, and the Great Gurus who are beyond everyone else. Plus the Volvaba, master of curses who looks after a bunch of Wickermen, puppets that conveniently wield fire. But all these people do is run away on foot, get rescued by Roderick's men, and cast the spell that acts as a rite of passage for novices in a corner of the island. I'd better forget about Daimons I guess, the spell that'll be cast during the final battle will probably be this, too. The first one we saw back in Enoch.

Speaking of Roderick and his men, they're fast becoming the real heroes of this whole production. Maybe if Roderick had been there in time, Griffith wouldn't have gotten away so easily! Unfortunately, these brave men seem to have disappeared themselves. At least on pages 8 and 9, since the Sea Horse is nowhere to be seen. Barrels aplenty, but no ship. Hidden behind the light of the spell, maybe? But it's still not visible from other angles in the rest of the episode. I guess that ship's just too bothering to draw. Phased out. Just like Schierke and Farnese, who can't be expected to stick around for more than a page it seems.

A word on the dialogue: it's kept to a minimum and is about as unremarkable as you can make it. The bulk of it is from Roderick and his crew, continuing the trend started with 368. It's the new normal. Interestingly, the episode titles have been somewhat complex so far, and it feels like more effort is being put into them than into what the characters say. I don't know if they've necessarily been good, though. All I can say is that it seems to me that Mori is trying hard to imitate Miura's style with them.

Half of an aftermath

The aftermath of all that destruction is interesting to see. I do like the crescent shape for the island, and that feels like something Miura might have devised. The fact there were basically no casualties (or close to none) also matches my previous expectations, but it feels unearned since we saw no real struggle. The result is that the "gnawers" are depicted both as the ultimate calamity, but also as strangely toothless (ironic, right... gnawers...). It's a bit of a silly dissonance. Like Truder said earlier, if you compare it to what happened at Saint Albion's, it feels like there are no stakes.

Then again, we only see some types of elves, and just a couple of each. I'm just assuming the others survived but are off the page on another part of the island. We also don't see any dwarf except Hanarr. Does it even matter at this point? I don't know, but I figured I'd point it out.

There's a whole bunch of familiar faces when the morning comes, but with some notable ones missing. What of Molda, for example? Kept in stasis until 370, when she can go see Schierke, I guess? The Skull Knight? In the freezer until he's needed to spit a few lines at Guts. Nevermind that the reincarnation of his special lady (or something) is vanishing into the sea breeze. He didn't bother to see her off. It seems he truly was just there to impress Isidro last episode, she wasn't even a concern. Hard to reconcile that with their scene together in episode 363.

Same thing with Guts, by the way. I'm digressing here, but the fact his only thoughts are about how he couldn't hit Griffith and got ridiculously beaten is... not like him at all. And don't go telling me it's because Miura had told Mori he would think that and not something else. They're just making up those lines, and they're doing a shit job of it. That's what it comes down to. Guts should have had those thoughts before, during the fight, and right now he should be thinking about his failure to protect the woman he loves.

The Hill of Swords, again

Anyway, moving on to the disappearance of the elves. It quite conveniently happens just as everything quiets down and everyone takes stock of the aftermath. That really shows the step-by-step approach of the continuation so far, where things are disconnected almost by design and out of necessity. That's where you can feel the "plot beats" nature of this work the most, with them only having a few inklings of Miura's plans and needing to handwave their way around these to create a pretense of continuity.

The disappearance itself is a huge deal, and must have been something Miura had planned. Combined with Guts' ineffectual fight and Casca's abduction, it puts our heroes at their lowest point in a long time. We can assume they will inevitably claw their way back while the story progresses towards its conclusion.

I have to say that I am generally unsatisfied with how it's all taking place, though. Miura always excelled in keeping the story fresh with new challenges and situations that often greatly differed from previous ones. But here, we really just get a redo of the Hill of Swords, where Guts has a futile confrontation with Griffith and has his plans disrupted almost as a side effect. Back then it was because Godot's mine had been destroyed. That pushed Guts and Casca to travel to Puck's place, despite it being far away. At the time, it provided Guts with an interesting dilemma, having to bury down his desire for revenge in order to prioritize Casca's well-being.

This new situation is more of the same, except now his two objectives are aligned. Out of all the developments that could have pushed Guts to once more seek to face Griffith, this is by far the one I find the least interesting. There will hopefully be more wrinkles to it and that will change my thoughts on the matter. As it stands, however, I just can't help but wonder just how drastically different Miura's version of these events would have been. It's hard for me to believe it would have just come down to that, and I can't help but think in a corner of my head that defaulting on imitating previous parts of the story is what Mori and the others would probably consider the safest and most respectful course of action for executing on things they aren't sure of.

No more elves?

Of course a big question for the disappearance is what exactly does it entail? Who exactly is concerned and what exactly happened to them? Like I said earlier in the thread, based on what we see in this episode, I can only assume that the tree played a key role in allowing elves to manifest in the world. Its destruction means that not only Danan or the island's elves disappeared, but every single elf in the entire world.

What I'm basing this reasoning on is the fact the merrows vanish alongside the island's denizens. The merrows weren't born on Skellig. They dwell in the sea and we even know where and how Isma was born specifically (and her father was human!). For them to disappear because of what happened means every elf was impacted.

An alternative to this idea is that the local connection (in that specific geographic area) between the ethereal and corporeal worlds was severed, but that doesn't actually make sense in the context of the story. It's never been how it worked. Puck could roam the world without any problems at the beginning of the story, he didn't need ethereal anchor points or whatever. Furthermore, with Fantasia, the entire world is now filled with ethereal beings and landscapes. It just doesn't work, and it also more simply doesn't fit Danan's words.

The reveal that merrows are elves, which took place in episode 363 and that not many people paid attention to at the time, had been a surprise and a big deal to me. It immediately brought to mind the possibility that every benevolent ethereal being could be a type of elf and that there's a clear difference in nature between them and creatures like trolls or goblins. In short, it hinted as something important concerning the nature and hierarchy of various groups of ethereal beings.

I have long theorized that elves could be a sort of opposing force to the God of the Abyss and its God Hand. Here are a couple of threads I made some years ago for reference: The Idea of Evil's grand plan | Causality's countercurrent. I feel like their disappearance as shown in this episode could maybe confirm it. The basic idea is that elves represent a chaotic force that is unpredictable and is not subject to the principles of causality that the God of the Abyss uses to further its designs. Removing them from the picture would be a step in a larger plan to create a deterministic world where everything happens as "god" intends it, with individual human will not factoring anymore. Of course, that's just speculation and may turn out to not be the case. Still, it immediately came to my mind when I read the episode.

All according to the plan?

Unfortunately, I do have a problem with how it was done if it's the case, and it's how convenient it would be. If getting rid of elves was a goal, then the way it happened can only have been something Griffith had planned to do. However that means it relied on a series of rather improbable decisions.

Guts traveled halfway across the world to cure Casca. It started almost on a whim, because the only safe place they could think of was Puck's home. And that was needed only because Zodd destroyed the mine by accident. Once they got there, they were visited by the boy, who presumably reverted to Griffith only because he misestimated the passage of time. Of course, Griffith and the boy only share a body in the first place because the Beherit Apostle stumbled upon the dying baby while climbing to the top of the tower of condemnation and swallowed him on a whim.

The kid himself was also born through unlikely circumstances: Casca had a very early pregnancy and the embryo was corrupted when Femto raped her. The baby somehow survived until the tower of condemnation, where he was fatally wounded while protecting his mother. Another key factor in this is the fact he regularly goes to see his parents.

It's really hard for me to believe all of these elements were planned or factored in to achieve a specific goal of destroying the island. Especially since said destruction is presented like a mere side effect of Griffith's presence. He doesn't seem to care at all really, all he does after reverting is smirk, walk to pick up Casca, and leave. That is my main problem with this theory. Abducting Casca can make sense as something Griffith would do to put an end to the "boy" problem after waking up butt naked in a strange place and in front of Guts. But doing that while having also planned to end up in this situation from the beginning? It stretches way past my suspension of disbelief.

It would also present Griffith as basically all-knowing and all-powerful (or at least having these tremendous powers working in his favor), which means that his eventual downfall would probably come off as too improbable itself. It's something I've said in the past and well, I still hope it doesn't end up like that. It was fine and even awesome actually for Ganishka to be a mere pawn, for their little war to all just be a pretext leading to Fantasia. It was very appropriate and fit perfectly in the fairy tale imposture that the God Hand had set up around Griffith to captivate and essentially subjugate mankind. But Guts and magicians and elves don't fit into that fake narrative, that's been one of the points of the series. That's also why Rickert could slap Griffith in the face, because he's a relic of his past, someone who has no place in that fairy tale.

Anyway, this is all very speculative and it's probably best to stay put and see how it goes. Theorizing based on episodic revelations was a sound exercise when Miura was at the helm, but things are very different now and I feel like the storytelling isn't reliable enough to support constructive conversations.

Isma's big moment

The way the disappearance is handled has led many to do comparisons to the end of the Avengers: Infinity War movie, and it's also what immediately came to my mind. Is this how Miura would have done it? I don't think so. This strikes me as a situation where Mori or the assistants figured Miura would have found it cool, or maybe they once had a conversation go like "wouldn't it be cool if the elves disappeared like that?". But... there's a big difference between shooting off ideas during a casual conversation and actually putting them to paper. Miura found inspiration in a lot of things, big and small, but he never just copied something directly or regurgitated it undigested. This feels like they looked at something literally instead of figuratively and lacked the talent or creativity to make it unique and striking.

The big moment they hinged the scene on is Isma's disappearance, with her clothes staying in Isidro's hands. It's a good attempt, despite feeling derivative of the aforementioned movie, but falls short of what they probably intended because Isidro and Isma's relationship wasn't all that strong or meaningful. They got along well and she got his hormones going, but they weren't a couple or long time comrades. I mean, Molda got his hormones going too. He's a teenager.

Maybe if we had seen them fight side by side and survive the night, perhaps with Isma saving him with the help of some Kelpies while he had stayed behind to hold the ooze back... Maybe then it would have been more poignant and meaningful. They could have made plans, "if we make it out alive, then you'll owe me", only for her to disappear like that. It's hard to say, or to imagine what Miura would have done. I'm frankly not sure he would have done things like this at all, even if the end result had been the same. All in all, it kind of feels like a waste for her character.

A sad end for Danan

Anyhow, while Isma gets those two pages, everyone else gets shafted. Danan, the Sovereign of the Flower Storm, fades away practically wordlessly as people watch in silence. Bafflingly, she's neither the first to disappear (that's Isma), nor the last, despite her power and significance, despite being the one most closely associated with the tree, basically despite everything. It's just a poorly thought out depiction. It's worth noting that she disappears with her witch's clothes on (while Isma loses her own clothes) but leaves her broom/staff behind despite the fact it also transformed with her. I guess that's a free staff for Farnese (unless it stays in its broom form lol), which makes sense since she's already got Danan's old clothes, but it's needlessly inconsistent for it to play out like that.

By the way, a shout-out to those dead eyed kids who look utterly bored as Isma and Danan start vanishing into thin air. Really makes you feel the tension of the moment.

369-zombies.jpg


The Hanarr conundrum

A special mention to Hanarr, too, who was bundled with all the notable old folks in one tiny reaction panel. Nevermind the fact the Great Gurus, the Volvaba and Hanarr didn't seem like the type to stick together. They're all crammed in that one reaction shot to show us that they're still alive. The problem with this is that Hanarr is an elf and thus must have disappeared along with the others. Did the team forget about this little fact, or did they just not care to show him vanish? The result is the same either way: he's likely gone for good and it happened off screen.

This post is huge enough already so I don't want to digress, but it makes me wonder how Guts will deal with the armor in the future. It'd be a bit ridiculous if the character of Hanarr had only been introduced to show Guts a flashback of Gaizeric's death. Why not just have Gedflynn do it on the cliff then? Surely Miura had more things planned for him, but I guess we'll never get to see them. Of course, it's always possible that he'll stick around, but that would feel like a major mistake on Mori's part if all other kinds of elves are gone. All of this to say that it's one of those many "details" that are anything but "minor". Their presence or absence potentially has profound consequences on the storyline because of what ramifications would spring from them down the line.

Puck's fate

Well, I've talked about everyone but the most important characters in this situation: Puck and Ivalera. They aren't shown on the page while everyone else disappears. It's clearly done on purpose, as that reveal will probably be a big part of episode 370, but it's hard to justify from a storytelling perspective. Puck stays up in the air way above the island, doing nothing, for 5 episodes. And he still doesn't go see his friends even after all is said and done. That's completely out of character for him.

I've seen some people call this lack of depiction a cliffhanger, but that's incorrect. A cliffhanger is when you tease something by showing the beginning of a scene but not its end. Miura had almost every single episode of Berserk end with a cliffhanger, so it's not hard to go and look at comparisons. But episode 369 just ends with Guts looking downcast, with the elves already being gone while he didn't notice. Nothing is teased, which is why some folks even thought this was the end of the chapter.

Now, I don't believe Puck will have disappeared off the page, that'd be ridiculous. He will either be shown to still be around, or episode 370 will go back in time to show his own disappearance separately, as well as that of Ivalera's who's with Schierke and Farnese. It's hard to overstate how major it would be for Puck to disappear. He's a staple of the series, Guts' first companion, and over time had almost become Miura's alter ego. At the same time, I also don't really see how he could stick around without creating inconsistencies with what I touched upon earlier regarding the merrows. We'll see, after all it's not like the continuation hasn't introduced inconsistencies so far! What's a few more.

On the origin of species

Of course the fate of the elves themselves is still up in the air. Like I mentioned in the translation thread, if someone in real life were to say Danan's line, they would be speaking about their death. But Berserk is a fantasy story, and elves are ethereal beings, so departing the present world doesn't necessarily mean you cease to exist. They could just be somewhere "deeper". And yet I'm not sure this really makes a difference. The ethereal world is also "the realm of the dead", which is why Flora still exists somewhere in there. So even if all of the elves haven't "truly" died, as long as they're in some place we can't see, it amounts to the same.

Still, I can't really believe Miura would have intended to make Puck disappear permanently. Being separated from the group and having to make his way back from the ethereal world would be fun to see, but frankly I'm not convinced that's in the cards. His connection to the beherit also comes to mind, but I don't really see how that could come into play.

Anyway, this takes us back to the role of the tree. If the tree's destruction banished every elf in the world, it has strong implications regarding how they came to be in the first place. Were they always there, or did they appear at some point? Did Gaizeric's lover have something to do with it? She was buried at the bottom of that tree, and Danan did look strikingly like her. Did she contribute to manifesting them from a specific "idea"? Those questions reinforce my interest in seeing a flashback. Unfortunately, I don't really expect to be satisfied with whatever it is we end up getting.

A note about the shooting star we see at the end of the episode. This is clearly meant to be Griffith zipping away through the tree's branches, but... It's not staying in there, going instead in a straight line. Kind of a silly mistake, which is also hard to reconcile with the timing of these events. It would make sense if only a minute had elapsed, but too much time has passed for it to be possible. Just another one of these "
:shrug:
" moments, I guess.

Aftermath, part deux

So, what's next in episode 370? We'll see Puck and Ivalera's fate, and I'm guessing the Skull Knight will visit Guts. Schierke & Farnese should maybe rejoin either Guts or the others? Then people will start leaving the island, probably? Would they all just use the Sea Horse and go back to the continent by sea? That would be pretty pathetic, but that feels like par for the course at this point. Just pack all the magicians in the hold or something. Could some of them go their separate ways?

Maybe we'll see a form of new resolve for Guts, but it would feel unearned given how beaten he's been all this time. I also don't feel like there will be time to convey all that much new information. Either way, it will be a strange closure to a chapter that Miura had started. A lot of things have been destroyed in a very short time.
 

puella

Berserk forever
Where can I find such information, Puella?

On my Patreon page, of course.
:badbone:
:iva:


I'm joking obviously, I wasn't trying to promote anything. I just want people to care about Miura. But that's what I meant: through the interviews he's given and the tributes of the people who knew him. There's many of them on the forum already and I'm working on translating more, but it takes time to do a quality job. Recently I posted Takashi Hoshi's tribute to him that was published last year. You can also read this list of his comments in Young Animal over the years. Explore the forum, there's plenty of things to discover!
 
Hi there! I liked your post Aazealh. I have some thoughts and questions if you don't mind.

It immediately brought to mind the possibility that every benevolent ethereal being could be a type of elf and that there's a clear difference in nature between them and creatures like trolls or goblins. In short, it hinted as something important concerning the nature and hierarchy of various groups of ethereal beings.
When I first saw the elves disappearing I couldn't help but to think of the moonlight boy. In 364 Danan had commented that his od was similar to elves and with the elves now gone because of the tree do you think this could also effect the boy? He's always been a mystery. His parents are human, his powers come from evil, yet he himself is pure and never activated the brand. It's really hard to say what he is.

Unfortunately, these brave men seem to have disappeared themselves. At least on pages 8 and 9, since the Sea Horse is nowhere to be seen. Barrels aplenty, but no ship.
Yeah I agree, that was weird. I guess we're supposed to see them next episode or whenever they become relevant again. I thought it was odd previously to see them loading the ship and seemly about to set sail without the group especially that little moment when he was surrounded and thought about Farnese. I get that they were getting off the island for safety reasons but I hope they're supposed to come back for everyone at some point. I'd be odd for him to show worry about Farnese then leave her stranded on a destroyed island without seeing if she's alright. I also noticed that during all the chaos we didn't have Serpico thinking about her well-being oddly.

This new situation is more of the same, except now his two objectives are aligned. Out of all the developments that could have pushed Guts to once more seek to face Griffith, this is by far the one I find the least interesting.
I also agree with this. It's mostly that like others I'm not thrilled about the Casca abduction plot. I get that it could be a way for Casca to confront her trauma (she really won't have a choice but to). I can also understand that given Guts giving up on revenge to look after her that of course going to save Casca would be an understandable motivation for him confronting Griffith again, but I worry about the Casca part of it given how she's unarmed (and even before that, the sword given to her didn't seem to have any special properties) and 365 shows us that the brand is also a trigger for her trauma. If an apostle tries to eat her (or worst) she'll have a panic attack and collapse then be completely helpless. I just hope she's not going to die. Which brings me to my next questions.

I guess that's a free staff for Farnese (unless it stays in its broom form lol), which makes sense since she's already got Danan's old clothes,
Do you think Farnese is still going to learn mind healing? She wanted to learn it to help Casca but with her gone and Danan also disappearing, do you think something will happen for her to still learn it? It didn't seem like her and Danan got around to lessons but I suppose that could have happened off screen, maybe. They didn't just give Farnese Danan's clothing for nothing right? Going back to the Casca part of it. Will she be okay confronting her trauma without the help of further mind healing? Was Farnese's aid supposed to be just helpful or was further magical involvement necessary for her recovery?
 
A part of me is still glad to atleast see some of the plot points, but this is also kind of ruining all of the hard work miura put in over the years to set up the story carefully. I feel conflicted.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Hi there! I liked your post Aazealh. I have some thoughts and questions if you don't mind.

Thanks! And I don't mind of course.

When I first saw the elves disappearing I couldn't help but to think of the moonlight boy. In 364 Danan had commented that his od was similar to elves and with the elves now gone because of the tree do you think this could also effect the boy? He's always been a mystery. His parents are human, his powers come from evil, yet he himself is pure and never activated the brand. It's really hard to say what he is.

I don't think he should be affected directly. He is very unique, but neither his existence nor the source of his power were tied to that tree. One thing to note though is that we don't really know where his powers come from. The easy assumption is that he can somehow tap into Femto's own abilities, but because his Od is so different, the way it works behind the scenes might be more complicated than that.

On this topic, I always think back to what the Beherit Apostle said when he swallowed him:

At least,
Taking the new world inside me as a cradle,
Dream.


It's no coincidence that Griffith talks about waking up from a dream in episode 364. This could be what the "Boy in the Moonlight" simply is: the fleeting dream of an innocent child who yearns for the love of his parents. A dream that can come true on a full moon night.

Yeah I agree, that was weird. I guess we're supposed to see them next episode or whenever they become relevant again. I thought it was odd previously to see them loading the ship and seemly about to set sail without the group especially that little moment when he was surrounded and thought about Farnese. I get that they were getting off the island for safety reasons but I hope they're supposed to come back for everyone at some point. I'd be odd for him to show worry about Farnese then leave her stranded on a destroyed island without seeing if she's alright. I also noticed that during all the chaos we didn't have Serpico thinking about her well-being oddly.

Honestly I don't think there's any mystery to it, it's just that Studio Gaga didn't draw the ship and since they have that wide aerial shot of the island on that double page, it looks like it's gone. But it's still there of course, Roderick didn't abandon his friends. If you look at the scale of the people and barrels on that two-page spread, it seems off compared to the geography (they're all too big), so it could have just been that having the Sea Horse in there would emphasize the scale problem. Whatever the reason, it's kind of a basic mistake.

As for Serpico, yeah he's been a non-entity in the continuation so far. Unfortunately that's probably going to be the default for him from now on. And not just him. You should brace yourself for a general lack of characterization for everyone.

I also agree with this. It's mostly that like others I'm not thrilled about the Casca abduction plot. I get that it could be a way for Casca to confront her trauma (she really won't have a choice but to). I can also understand that given Guts giving up on revenge to look after her that of course going to save Casca would be an understandable motivation for him confronting Griffith again, but I worry about the Casca part of it given how she's unarmed (and even before that, the sword given to her didn't seem to have any special properties) and 365 shows us that the brand is also a trigger for her trauma. If an apostle tries to eat her (or worst) she'll have a panic attack and collapse then be completely helpless. I just hope she's not going to die. Which brings me to my next questions.

It would be nonsensical and would literally ruin the story if Casca were to die at this point, so that's definitely not going to happen. But yeah, it is a dire situation. I think we can give Miura the benefit of the doubt, even though what we're seeing is but a rudimentary interpretation of his purported intent.

Casca has been helpless for 25 volumes. She's still in a vulnerable state right now, but nevertheless, she's back. It could be argued that merely having her tag along and be hand-held through her troubles would not have been worthy of the heroine of Berserk. Miura's reasoning might have been that he needed to show her having agency and surmounting real hardships by herself. And if that's the goal, the most challenging environment for her to be in right now is Falconia.

A gigantic city literally fashioned in the image of the man who so thoroughly betrayed and violated her, who took everything from her, down to her son. A city that harbors the monsters who devoured her friends, while humans are content to live the placid lives they've been handed. Griffith dwells there not just as a military hero or even a ruler, but as a god-sent messiah who has obtained everything he ever wanted and more. He has won completely. How will Casca confront this? How could she possibly just endure it, given her condition? I can't deny that it is compelling to ponder.

That's why I think she's got to be the one who gets out, versus Guts just going to save her.

Do you think Farnese is still going to learn mind healing? She wanted to learn it to help Casca but with her gone and Danan also disappearing, do you think something will happen for her to still learn it? It didn't seem like her and Danan got around to lessons but I suppose that could have happened off screen, maybe. They didn't just give Farnese Danan's clothing for nothing right? Going back to the Casca part of it. Will she be okay confronting her trauma without the help of further mind healing? Was Farnese's aid supposed to be just helpful or was further magical involvement necessary for her recovery?

This is a great question. It's going to be hard to learn without a teacher. Can someone else teach her the basics instead? Could she venture into the ethereal world with her body of light to meet with Danan somehow? Or was it just a misdirection from Miura so that we'd be more effectively blindsided? I don't think she learned things offscreen, that doesn't feel right. But I also don't think it was going to come down to nothing, because it did seem like an interesting direction for Farnese. The problem of course is that we quite possibly won't see what Miura had intended.

Regarding Casca, it's hard to say. I do think she can overcome her trauma by herself for the most part, if it's a just a matter of dealing with what happened. Danan says as much. It's up to her. But there are likely some aspects to it we don't quite know yet and where Farnese could have helped. Hell, we don't yet know what Griffith has got in store for her (hopefully not brainwashing). Besides, these skills wouldn't just be useful for Casca. Guts is hugely traumatized himself and even though he's keeping it all inside, given the danger that the Berserk's armor represents, it's not hard to imagine that he would need some help down the line.

If we think a little beyond that, it could also come in handy if they were to encounter Ubik, who does love a good mind trick. What better skill than that to have on your side in such a case? Last but not least, maybe if it were possible to somehow extract the boy from Griffith... Maybe magic specialized in the mind could be useful.
 

Gobolatula

praise be to grail!
Hi folks, I decided to write what I consider to be an immensely improved version of episode 369. Please enjoy:

EPISODE 369: Revengeanceance

The episode begins with Guts weeping only the manliest tears onto The Dragon Slayer. As a matter of fact, we get a two-page spread of the tears. They are in fact very manly, each of them bench pressing the tear equivalent to 500lbs.

Schierke calls out, "GUTS! GUUUTS!"

Guts replies, "Over here! I'm sad!"

Various witches give each other a knowing, serious anime clance and go, "MM!" They cast a spell to control a wicker man to grab Schierke, who curls up and starts spinning really fast in a round little ball, like Sonic the Hedgehog or his friends Miles "Tails" Prower or Knuckles the Echidna. The wicker man hurls the little spinning witch towards Guts, who quickly cries a bunch of tears upwards to catch her. A bunch of Guts' tears say, "you hardly weigh more than a bird!"

Schierke quickly runs to Guts and says, "Oh thank The Lord Jesus Christ that you're all right!"

"All right?" Guts shrieks, "You call THIS all right? The fuckin' kid was Griffith all along and I couldn't land a fuckin' blow on him?! Not a SINGLE BLOW?! Oh and I guess Casca's gone too, but whatever."

"Well, you look like you could use a drink, Guts. I think I got some tequila in here somewhere," says Schierke, shuffling around her witch bag.

"Now's not the time, dude. I'm finally back to my revenge-fueled quest like everybody wanted, but I just don't know how to KILL that asshole Griffith, grrrrghhhh!!!"

Schierke cautiously looks to her left. Then to her right. She takes off her witch hat, the one on her head. "Guts," she says, "There's something I've been keeping secret this whole entire time. Reach in my witch hat. In there you will find a secret weapon that may be able to affect The Falcon of Darkness.

Guts shouts, with horrible breath because he probably doesn't brush his teeth, "NANI?!" and jams his hand into Schierke's hat.

He pulls out a rabbit.

"Oops, try a little to the left next time."

Guts crams the whole rabbit in his mouth and starts munching as he reaches into the hat once more. After all, it's good protein. Schierke pukes a bit in her mouth.

Guts feels something. The moment he touches it, he knows it's powerful. Slowly, his arm emerges from the hat. He sees it. The one thing he's been missing this entire time. The key to victory.

"It's a fucking gun," proclaims Schierke.

Guts does that super cool gritting-his-teeth smile and tosses The Dragon Slayer into the ocean. "FINALLY," he exclaims with vigor. "But how the hell am I gonna catch up with that hot naked bastard?!"

"Chill," says a voice coming from behind Guts. It's Molda, riding her broom. Her titties are there, too, as usual. She points to an empty spot on her broom. "I got this shit."

Guts nods and quickly hops on the broom, behind Molda.

"Grab on to my boobs!" Shouts a determined Molda. Guts obliges. He grabs those goddamn beautiful melons as they explode into the air, racing after Griffith.

"I sure do love having a gun!" yells Guts as they fly at near light-speed.

"DON'T TALK! YOU'LL BITE YOUR TONGUE," warns Molda, sternly.

"Ha! someone once said that to me one time. And I'm about to fucking murder him right now!"

As Guts and Molda draw closer, Zodd sniffs a familiar scent. "I SMELL HU-MON," he growls.

As he holds on to Griffith, who is holding on to Casca, Zodd punches Molda's broom into bits! Guts and Molda are sent tumbling through the air, but just then, Zodd notices what Guts is brandishing.

"GASP!! OH NO!! LORD GRIFFYWIFF, YOUR WORSHIP, LOOK OUT!! THIS CRAZY BASTARD'S GOT A GUN!!"

Guts spits, "If you see God, tell him to leave me the hell alone... AGAIN!!"

Blam! Guts fires at Griffith, of course completely unconcerned about Casca being there. The bullet zips RIGHT past Zodd and RIPS through Griffith's hot sexy skull.

With his last breath, Griffith whispers, "This... sucks..." and he dies.

Just then, Guts realizes that he, Molda, and Casca are plummeting to the earth from high above the clouds.

Guts looks to the camera, gives a sly shrug and a smarmy smile, and says, "If it's all the same to you, I'll have that drink now!"

TO BE CONTINUED
 
I think that's the unavoidable path that will people take. Especially with AI art bots that are good one could construct their own epilogue version of Berserk with their own headcanon in the not so far off future. It'll end up like the Bible where there's 73 versions, choose your creed.

After this showing I hope they soak in the criticism and improve because while this might seem fruitless with how many basic mistakes they've made, I'd rather see them make a cohesive ending and then go on to do their own worthwhile mangas as Miuras disciples and part of his legacy.

As long as people are still there to remind others that yeah, Berserk practically ends after 364 and the rest is just for now a fever dream. It'll be OK!
 
@Gobolatula thanks for this, I needed the laugh. Funny as always! I still vividly remember your comic, IT HURTS!!, and the hilarious Pasqualo (and his dad), with some lines burned into my memory LOL. You should do this more often!

[For new members, find Gobs' awesome comic here]

@Odysseus, I'd totally support a continuation by you and Gobs!
 
As long as people are still there to remind others that yeah, Berserk practically ends after 364 and the rest is just for now a fever dream. It'll be OK!
I might have too much faith in people, but I feel like any future readers who truly appreciate Berserk will either know Berserk ended there because they researched Miura and Berserk long before reaching that episode or noticed the sudden change in quality and style and would then research why it changed. I’d be sincerely surprised if someone who appreciated Miura and Berserk didn’t form a “mental divider” so their opinion of Miura’s masterpiece was unaffected by the continuation.

I think the type of reader who’d say Berserk as a whole sucks because of this project are just another variation of a type of Berserk reader we’ve seen before. The reader who thinks the story went downhill after the Golden Age arc and should’ve stayed there. The reader who thinks the story went downhill after the Black Swordsman arc and should’ve stayed there. The reader who thinks the story went downhill when magic was introduced. The reader who thinks Berserk became “too kiddy.” In other words, people who technically read Berserk but didn’t absorb, critically think about, or understand what they were actually reading. I personally couldn’t care less about that type of reader’s opinion.

With all that said, it’d be nice if they’d put a memorial for Miura in the volume itself. It’d be a nice way to further honor his life, talent, and work. It’d also serve has an obvious sign to the readers that there’s been a monumental change so the reader should prepare accordingly.
 
I am glad studio Gaga decided to take up this most difficult task. I am cheering for them to grow and succeed. I know Miura would be proud and have kindness and compassion for them like a father watching his child. You can't put things back the way they were, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't struggle and strive. I think these last few chapters have been a beautiful effort to pick up the pieces. Like a child following in the footsteps of of father clumsy and imperfect is no surprise. I don't share the opinion that this continuation should not be. I wouldn't tell a child not to exist because he can't yet measure up to the adult before him. Already we can see this is a gifted child.

There are some beautiful moments in this chapter, like when Schierke cries out to Guts, Roderick and crew trying to save the others, and Guts at the end with his tattered cape. I hope if studio Gaga reads any vitriol they use it only to fuel them and do not get consumed by the darkness. I hope they grow in confidence and don't fear missteps too much. I would love more dialogue and some liberties. There is so much potential for this continuation and I am excited just thinking about it.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Podcast is up.

Like a child following in the footsteps of of father clumsy and imperfect is no surprise. I don't share the opinion that this continuation should not be. I wouldn't tell a child not to exist because he can't yet measure up to the adult before him. Already we can see this is a gifted child.
I don't think practice or experience is what's holding back the continuation from being fully embraced by all. The largest impediment is the format. I know it's exciting for many to still be getting regular releases of Berserk. But this formula is starting to really show some cracks for others.

They've chosen to stretch a small amount of material across serialized releases, whether they can execute each moment with finesse or not, and whether their understanding of an event is complete or not. So when something stops us in our tracks, we aren't necessarily seeing their inexperience or inattention getting in the way of storytelling. The limitations are inherent to the path they chose to walk.
 
They've chosen to stretch a small amount of material across serialized releases, whether they can execute each moment with finesse or not, and whether their understanding of an event is complete or not. So when something stops us in our tracks, we aren't necessarily seeing their inexperience or inattention getting in the way of storytelling. The limitations are inherent to the path they chose to walk.

Well said.

I think this idea of Studio Gaga carrying on Miura's legacy will be more palatable once they move on to their own works. Whether that means they continue on as a team, or each goes on to their own individual stories. Either way, they're in a highly exclusive group of people who got to learn and work under Miura's guidance. Being free to pursue their own ideas is sure to bring about something much more investing than adapting Cliff notes of Cliff notes.
 
Not that I would've had any idea how things would turn out, but I'm flummoxed by the turn of events...If the island was invaded and collapsed so effortlessly, what can anyone left do at their current state...and what future could they hope to achieve? Maybe the Great Gurus will reveal something to the party next (a bit too late)? As for Guts, I thought he would face a turning point with his armor on this island (had some cheesy thoughts of him sublimating his internal darkness and taming his beast, which is admittedly too much like FFIV and Naruto :farnese:)
 
Speaking of the Gurus and what @Skeleton brought up, the way Griffith and Zodd effortlessly and quickly dispatch the isle's inhabitants and all of the Elfheim characters are written out unceremoniously in the span of a handful pages with seemingly no consequences short of healing Casca, who's kidnapped anyway, can't help but give me the impression of a kind of bad fanfiction. The kind where the writer is upset that the isle was so far apart tonally from say, Black Swordsman, and now that he has the reins is quickly reverting everything to what he sees as the point of the story. Read in that light, even Guts' comment about not hitting Griffith isn't just a bad line, it's going back to what said writer thinks is the focus of the character - revenge and physically beating Griffith in a fight, the last 300 odd episodes be damned.

So far it's more of a vibe than a concrete thesis to put forward, and while I've few good things to say about the continuation, I don't believe that Mori would deliberately be trying to subvert Miura's intent given how close the two were. It is something I can't shake though and I'm morbidly curious if that tonal regression holds on going forward.
 
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Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
So far it's more of a vibe than a concrete thesis to put forward, and while I've few good things to say about the continuation, I don't believe that Mori would deliberately be trying to subvert Miura's intent given how close the two were. It is something I can't shake though and I'm morbidly curious if that tonal regression holds on going forward.

Yeah I don't believe Mori has any such intent, which would amount to usurping authorship of the story and even sabotaging it. However it's clear to me that the amount of information he and the others have about what Miura planned is severely limited. It distinctly feels like they were too ambitious in pursuing a standard manga format while only having the most rudimentary idea of what was in the cards.

One thing to keep in mind is that it is possible the publisher pushed him to go with this instead of another less lucrative avenue (like an illustrated article). And on paper, there are solid arguments for it. But things are different in practice, as we've seen.
 
Yeah I don't believe Mori has any such intent, which would amount to usurping authorship of the story and even sabotaging it. However it's clear to me that the amount of information he and the others have about what Miura planned is severely limited. It distinctly feels like they were too ambitious in pursuing a standard manga format while only having the most rudimentary idea of what was in the cards.

One thing to keep in mind is that it is possible the publisher pushed him to go with this instead of another less lucrative avenue (like an illustrated article). And on paper, there are solid arguments for it. But things are different in practice, as we've seen.
I sincerely doubt it's intentional too, by all accounts the two were as close as it gets, but that is no guarantee you won't misread the material. The Dune sequels were made by Frank's son and they still managed to miss everything about the originals except there being worms in pseudo-feudal space.

As for publisher decisions, If they were going for a more high-paying approach, the least bad move would've been to start a new series for the Continuation and give them latitude to write an actual manga. Beyond the weaknesses of story, theme and art, the halfway nature of the continuation episodes where they're a broad strokes summary of what Miura told Mori but also a functional comic of their own has left it worse than committing to either approach.
 
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