Gaiseric, the Creater Theory

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Okay, the theory goes something like this:  Gaiseric’s subjects created Idea out of their misery because of the way he ruled them.  His reign was terrible for the people , and there negative feelings created idea.

As Idea put it: "The humans” “desired causes”  “Reasons for pain”... Reasons for sadness" "Reasons for life" "Reasons for death" "Why were their lives filled with suffering? Why were their deaths absurd?" "They desired a reason for the destiny that kept transcending their knowledge"

I think the type of oppression Gaiseric put his people under would cause such a desire.  At the time Idea was humanity’s savior, but in the end it’s a much worse fate.  This gives Gaiseric/Skull Knight a good reason to want to destroy God Hand, not just for revenge, but because he is responsible for its existence.  It could also be a reason why he’s outside of casualty (and maybe those related to him ;)).

Ahh, enough, lay some feedback on me people.

-Griffith
 

chibidevil

fear my chibiness...
Why would the people under Gaiserics empire have the desire to create idea as a reason for their suffering if they already knew Gaiseric's reign was the cause for their 'thorn in the paw'?I think Idea is much older than even Gaiseric.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Wow...At first I thought this post was way too out there. But not anymore. I think you have a good direction here, Griff. This would explain, somewhat why the Crimson Beherit is also called the Egg of the Conqueror, and it also gives Skully a LOT more motive for the destuction of God Hand.

However, and this is a big however: when we are introduced to Gaiseric in volume 10, he is out conquering the world. It seems as though he is already "reborn" at this point. Scope his armor in it. Also, directly after his 'conquering' he gains an empire, and rules it, forcing the citizens to build an enourmous 'capital', that in the brief glimpse we get of it, looks something very similar to Griffiths 'kingdom' that he desires. Now, another thing thats normally overlooked is the "wise man" who prays to god that is introduced in volume 18. It is he who Gaiseric imprisoned, and eventually does the actual summoning. Assuming that the wise man is Void... (which we assume because it makes sense that Gaiseric/Skull Knight would hold a grudge against him) Lets take a step back and look at the big picture again.  A crimson summoning can only occur every 216 years. Gaiseric is entered into God Hand, gets reborn, rules...216 +/- years later, Void is born and brings the house down on Gaiserics empire.

Because of Gaiseric most likely being a God Hand reborn at the time of the creation of his empire (hence the parallel to Griffith, and the 1000 years theory) it goes without saying that Idea, and God Hand existed before Gaiseric.

The big clencher of this theory, and why we shouldnt ignore it is that we dont yet know exactly what happened at the end of Gaiserics rule. As events go in these things, they parallel. Gaiserics empire and its fall will mirror Griffiths empire and its fall. What happened directly after God Hands intervention in Gaiserics empires fall? Why is Skully who he is? What is he trying to accomplish? If you follow the 216 year policy, It could be assumed that Gaiseric destroyed 4 of the five God Hand, leaving only Void. Hence, 216 years later Slann/Ubik/Conrad is born, and eventually meets with Griffith/Femto.

WOW...
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Why would the people under Gaiserics empire have the desire to create idea as a reason for their suffering if they already knew Gaiseric's reign was the cause for their 'thorn in the paw'?
That could be said for whatever reason mankind desired to create idea.  Anyway, it’s deeper than that, it’s man wanting to know why things are the way they are, like, why bad things happen to good people and other cliché questions.
I think Idea is much older than even Gaiseric.
Why?  There isn’t any mention of when Idea was created except that humans came first.
However, and this is a big however: when we are introduced to Gaiseric in volume 10, he is out conquering the world. It seems as though he is already "reborn" at this point. Scope his armor in it. Also, directly after his 'conquering' he gains an empire, and rules it, forcing the citizens to build an enourmous 'capital', that in the brief glimpse we get of it, looks something very similar to Griffiths 'kingdom' that he desires.
Yeah, but that’s tying one theory to another.  That assumes Gaiseric was ever reborn at all, which we don’t know.  You’ve said before, just because someone is badass doesn’t mean they are an Apostle, or in this case a God Hand reborn.  In this theory Gaiseric got his kingdom on his own.  But your problem with the parallels in they’re (Griffith & Gaiseric’s) actions and the look of the castle gives me a great idea! Forget the “Casualty-Cycle Theory” for a moment and think about this.  Perhaps Idea is simply trying to re-create the situation that brought it into existence in the fist place.  Griffith’s actions and the steps he takes to get his empire don’t need to parallel Gaiseric’s EXACTLY, this is Idea’s attempt to recreate the situation the best it can be.  That’s also why Griffith’s dream castle looks the same as Gaiseric’s castle.  Why is Idea trying to recreate that situation, well, that’s a different theory all together (and I think there are already two or three in there :-/).
All the stuff Walter said we don’t know yet about God Hand, Idea and Gaiseric.
goddammit...
i wish i could create theories that dont make me look like an ass...
Don’t worry, I’m sure when we find out the answers to those questions, we’ll all look asses.

-Griffith

P.S. I’m sure there are some major problems with the theory right now, I need to look at it more carefully and give it some fine tuning.  Gimmie a break, I’m going up against theories that are set in stone around here and virtually believed by everybody, including myself. :)  So, not that I need to ask, but if anybody sees something wrong in there, point it out.
 
Don’t worry, I’m sure when we find out the answers to those questions, we’ll all look asses.

maybe so, but you dont seem like it right now...
the theories make sense to me, but theyre not something i could think of.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
 That assumes Gaiseric was ever reborn at all, which we don’t know.  

the fact that the 1000 year rebirth eclipse occured with Griffith, and that Gaiseric's empire was 1000 years ago is not a coincidence.
 

Wereallmad

I love YaBB 1 Gold!
How do we know that Gaiseric was reborn?

This is the way I interpreted Grif's post: Gaiseric never was a God hand. That his treatment of his people led to so much negative energy, that Idea, and God hand were created to destroy Gaiseric, and his empire.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Gaiseric never was a God hand. That his treatment of his people led to so much negative energy, that Idea, and God hand were created to destroy Gaiseric, and his empire.

Its a damned good idea, but seriously...Creating a spiritual entity to counteract a corrupt politician? I think its more that the people were driven into depression/poverty, and so they prayed so that something, ANYTHING would change. The real clencher is the "how" of it all, if 1000 years ago was the 'first'.
 
Gaiseric had to be a reborn God Hand in order to destroy the other God Hands and leave Void. If he was just a human it would be impossible for him to destroy them.
 
Gaiseric had to be a reborn God Hand in order to destroy the other God Hands and leave Void. If he was just a human it would be impossible for him to destroy them.

Don't forget about the Elves.
We know that the Skull knight isn't a mere human because of that "elven aura"/"feeling", and it also seems that he doesn't make Gut's bran react.
So, Gaiseric could have nothing to do with the Idea and still have some kind of power to defeat the God Hands...
 
If you follow the 216 year policy, It could be assumed that Gaiseric destroyed 4 of the five God Hand, leaving only Void. Hence, 216 years later Slann/Ubik/Conrad is born, and eventually meets with Griffith/Femto.

WOW...

Perhaps was Void to destroy all members of the "old" Hand of God...
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Perhaps was Void to destroy all members of the "old" Hand of God...


Perhaps indeed but...whats the motive? Why? Gaiseric had plenty of motive to kill off 4 god hands if they were sent down to destroy his empire (even if they were indirectly responsible since it was directly caused by Voids 'sacrifice')
 
this is just a wild wild shot but, what if skull knight and void were both gaiseric, much like the hawk of light and femto were both griffith?
since void does resemble a skull in a way, maybe Gaiseric wasnt satisfied with just ruling a kingdom and wanted to be a god? he would then sacrifice his kingdom in return for his godly powers.

im sure theres something wrong about this that would prevent it from working out, but hey, this is my first shot at this whole crazy "speculation" business...
 

Fishbomb

Fear the slightly white swordsman!
Hmmm but we never got to see Femto and the hawk of light at the same time, did we?

By the time the Hawk of Light appeared, we no longer saw Femto when the God Hand appeared... or did we? I'm not exactly sure...

Intriguing theory, but I'm going more with that Void is the 'wise man' and Gasaeric is Skull Knight. So far that seems the most reasonable theory...

But speculation is fun!
 
Hmmm but we never got to see Femto and the hawk of light at the same time, did we?

By the time the Hawk of Light appeared, we no longer saw Femto when the God Hand appeared... or did we? I'm not exactly sure...

You are right... After Grifis' rebirth Phemt disappears... Take the dreamcast game, for example... :)
 

White_Hawk

The Only True Free Spirit / Dark Horse Rider
I think the hawk of light thingy is just a prank by the demon lords that created a politically fit situation for griffis to be reborn as the saviour, while in fact he is the dark hawk, the ruiner and enslaver of humanity. gatsu will hopefully kill him in the end, dying in the process and liberating the world from idea. The ppl, as usual, will hate gatsu considering him the demon badass that destroys all which is good and pure. Happens all the time to gatsu. Since he got in trouble with jill and the lil bugs, up to mozgus and even in the videogame we see it happen, ppl throwing stones at him. I think miura is tryin to make a point by this constant misjudging of gatsu by the ppl. He saves the day, but gets no credit for it. Maybe when he finally confronts with griffis and breaks his ass in half the ppl will probably see gatsu as "he who killed our beloved and good king".
 
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