Griffith / Femto: One in the same?

[The_Infragable_One]

???
Could some one clear this up for me:
1) Are Griffith and Femto still the same person, entity, etc.?
2) If they are not, how will this effect the outcome of individual "dreams" or conflicts for each character?
3) If they are, will we ever see Femto again?

The Infragable One

 

[Griffith]

1. No, because Griffith was/is a human being and Femto was a demon, he is governed by this fact.  Though, Femto could be a sort of manifestation of the worst part of Griffith.

2. As far as anybody knows a God Hand’s only desire is to serve Idea. But more importantly, Femto would have no use for a human dream, one in a physical world.  But the arrangement was made before Femto was born that Griffith would someday be allowed to get his dream in exchange for his cooperation, so Femto had no say, he was kind of doomed from the beginning.  Though, if his desire is to serve Idea as a God Hand, and Griffith getting his dream does that, then there wouldn’t be any conflict of interest anyway.

3. Nope, unless there’s some other wacky type of birth/rebirth ceremony that Skull Knight forgot to mention, in short, I sure hope not. ;)

-Griffith

 

[Walter]

Olivier, Correct this if its wrong (its from fansubs)

"Until now you were the dream called Griffith. Soon, you will awaken and no longer will you return to that dream" -Slann.

Griffith ceased to be, and Femto took his 'place' so to speak, in the spiritual world. Then, Femto was reborn into the flesh as 'Griffith'. But technically its just a human incarnation of a God Hand, so its not exactly 'Griffith' so to speak. Though, we dont know too much about the new Griffith to say it outright, I dont think hes the same anymore.

 

[Griffith]

Then, Femto was reborn into the flesh as 'Griffith'. But technically its just a human incarnation of a God Hand,

Yeah, that’s what I like to see, Walter and White_Hawk on the same page. :-X  Excuse me a moment…BAAARRFFF!!!

I dont think hes the same anymore.

C'mon, this isn't really news.  Griffith in his current form is many things, not even he knows who or what he is at the moment.  And I think a big part of the story is going to be Griffith rediscovering himself.  I wouldn’t want to even venture a guess as to what exactly Griffith is, but describing him as “just a human incarnation of a God Hand” is as inaccurate as you can get, not to mention contradictory, in my opinion.

-Griffith

 

[Walter]

sorry. I didnt mean _JUST_ a human incarnation. I meant that....well shit it was a broad generalization, I apologize.... YOU KNOW MY LOVE FOR GRIFFITH!!! I dont need to explain myself ;)

 

[Griffith]

I know, I know, but you really had me scared there for a moment. ;)

-Griffith

 

[CnC]

well if they're so different then Griffith can't be held accountable for Femto's actions. Which means Griffith is pretty much innocent for the rape

 

[CnC]

but then again there is the whole sacrificing his army thing... so he should still get a dragonslayer through the skull

 

[Wereallmad]

There's been many debates about this, but frankly, here goes:

A hero protects those who love him.

therefore, one who kills those who love him must be the antithesis of a hero.

a villan in other words.

if they had all agreed to be sacrificed, it would be different.

But they didn't lay their lives down before Griffith. They had them taken without their permision, without their will. They were murderd.

The fact that Griffith shed tears for them (in the anime, there is a droplet of water falling then Void says "you've shed your last tear", as griffith is descening into the pit) means that he had a soul, of sorts.

But it also means that he doesn't, anymore. When he became femto, he gave it up. All that remained were his negative feelings.

The new Griffith seems to still be Femto. However, he may have a soul. The child of Guts and caska probably had a soul.

It seemed interested in acting as Guts' concience.

Perhaps now it acts as Griffith's soul, and more importantly, as Griffith's concience.

 

[Griffith]

A hero protects those who love him.
therefore, one who kills those who love him must be the antithesis of a hero.
a villan in other words.

Uhh...no, you just made that up. ;)

he·ro (hîr  )
n. pl. he·roes
1. In mythology and legend, a man, often of divine ancestry, who is endowed with great courage and strength, celebrated for his bold exploits, and favored by the gods.
2. A man of distinguished valor or enterprise in danger, or fortitude in suffering; a prominent or central personage in any remarkable action or event; hence, a great or illustrious person.
3. An illustrious man, supposed to be exalted, after death, to a place among the gods; a demigod, as Hercules.
4. A person noted for feats of courage or nobility of purpose, especially one who has risked or sacrificed his or her life.
5. A person noted for special achievement in a particular field.
6. The principal male character in a novel, poem, or dramatic presentation.

Those descriptions seem to fit Griffith pretty well, I especially like number 3.

if they had all agreed to be sacrificed, it would be different.  But they didn't lay their lives down before Griffith. They had them taken without their permision, without their will. They were murderd.

Isn’t this sacrificed without permission thing a bit technical? I mean, technically Griffith didn’t kill one member of the Hawks (I’m being an ass, but it's no worse then that "hero antithesis" bullshit ;D).  Also, the purpose of the Hawks (Guts excluded) was to get Griffith his dream, and they were ALWAYS willing to lay down their lives for him.  But, I digress, Griffith is responsible for sacrifice of the Hawks as you say, but nobodies said that he isn’t, even Griffith.  I also think it will be interesting to see how it affects him in the future.

The new Griffith seems to still be Femto.

Okay, this is really getting annoying, at least five people have said this already and I don’t know where it comes from.  So, I’m asking, where exactly does Griffith act ANYTHING like Femto after his rebirth?

-Griffith

P.S. I too believe that the child is key to the salvation of Griffith’s humanity.

 

[White_Hawk]

Well,
was about time someone else said so.
Griffith's dead, and maybe he was never born as a man.
But new questions arise, and I will present them soon.

 

[Wereallmad]

Uhh...no, you just made that up. ;)

Um........ did I ever say otherwise? It wasn't supposed to be a definition, and it was pretty obvious. Frankly, I think you deserve to be called a dumb ass for that one.

And anyway, it still stands, regardless of dictionary.com

Isn’t this sacrificed without permission thing a bit technical? I mean, technically Griffith didn’t kill one member of the Hawks (I’m being an ass, but it's no worse then that "hero antithesis" bullshit ;D). Also, the purpose of the Hawks (Guts excluded) was to get Griffith his dream, and they were ALWAYS willing to lay down their lives for him. But, I digress, Griffith is responsible for sacrifice of the Hawks as you say, but nobodies said that he isn’t, even Griffith. I also think it will be interesting to see how it affects him in the future.

You used up an entire paragraph, but didn't say anything, bravo.

You say Griffith didn't kill anyone, but then you admit that this is just a technicality, and then you eventualy agree with my statement. Was it so nessesary to speak that you had to waste all those words?

Okay, this is really getting annoying, at least five people have said this already and I don’t know where it comes from. So, I’m asking, where exactly does Griffith act ANYTHING like Femto after his rebirth?

Because he IS Femto.

He was just given human flesh. No one ever said he'd be Griffith again. He is still a god hand, just one that can interact with the phsyical world.

There is no indication to hte contrary whatsoever.

You must remember that when Griffith became Femto, his humanity was killed. You can't regain that.

 

[eintrigga]

Because he IS Femto.

He was just given human flesh. No one ever said he'd be Griffith again. He is still a god hand, just one that can interact with the phsyical world.

but Guts' brand no longer reacts vehemently (vol3) when they meet again in episode 184(?).....

 

[Olivier_Hague]

Griffith's dead, and maybe he was never born as a man.

:-/

 

[Wereallmad]

but Guts' brand no longer reacts vehemently (vol3) when they meet again in episode 184(?).....

Regardless of how it reacts in volume 184, in volume 180 it does.

You must remember, in 184, he's not nearly close enough to evoke as stroke a reaction as in Volume 3. Also, in volume 3, Guts brand seemed to be reacting, in response to Femto's will, not his presence. Femto sorta "turned up the heat" at one point.

And Caska's brand reacts very consistantly with volume 3.

Face it, he's still Femto.

 

[Griffith]

Really, Wereallmad, this is becoming embarrassing for both of us. :-/

And anyway, it still stands

Why, because you thought of it? It doesn’t have any meaning or validity, its just some bullshit you made up to get your point across without having to make a legitimate argument.  One can only assume because you don’t have a legitimate argument to make.

AND DICTIONARY.COM SI SOOPER BTW!!!!

You used up an entire paragraph, but didn't say anything, bravo.
You say Griffith didn't kill anyone, but then you admit that this is just a technicality, and then you eventualy agree with my statement. Was it so nessesary to speak that you had to waste all those words?

This seems it little petty, doesn’t it?  But okay, I’m petty too ;D, why do you make up arguments that even you yourself can’t or won’t explain? (BTW, don't just respond with "I don't!", it would look real bad)

Because he IS Femto.
He was just given human flesh. No one ever said he'd be Griffith again. He is still a god hand, just one that can interact with the phsyical world.
There is no indication to hte contrary whatsoever.
You must remember that when Griffith became Femto, his humanity was killed. You can't regain that.

Like I said, you make a lot of statements but you never explain a one of them.  Where are the details from the story that support what you’re ideas? Maybe you don’t include them because they DON’T support what you're saying?  He (reborn Griffith/Femto/Baby monster, "villain") acted very much like Griffith actually, I don’t think Femto would waste time by going to Godo’s house so he could catch up on old times with Guts.  Also, if you examine his behavior around Guts ("Thats the kind of man I've always been...only you knew that.), Caska (nuff said, maybe the baby, but certainly not Femto) and Rickert (saying how he should learn the truth, even if it means he will hate him…yeah sounds a lot like Femto to me) and then compare it to Femto and yet still claim that he is UNDENIABLY just Femto on earth than you have truly earned dumbass-status. Don't you think it's a little more complicated than he's either Femto or Griffith?

Face it, he's still Femto.

Just because the brands react to him? That's like saying he's Griffith just because he looks like Griffith?

-Grffith

P.S. Anal-Retentive Man sure isn’t very anal-retentive.

 

[Walter]

You must remember that when Griffith became Femto, his humanity was killed. You can't regain that.

Femto

Griffith Reborn
​

Or can you?
​

PS: Stop the name calling.

 

[Wereallmad]

Really, Wereallmad, this is becoming embarrassing for both of us. :-/

Hey, I didn't bring out the ruler and nudy magazine.

Why, because you thought of it? It doesn’t have any meaning or validity, its just some bullshit you made up to get your point across without having to make a legitimate argument. One can only assume because you don’t have a legitimate argument to make.

So you're telling me I should cut all my responses out of books?

I'm guessing you took yours from the "idiot's guide" series.

This seems it little petty, doesn’t it? But okay, I’m petty too ;D, why do you make up arguments that even you yourself can’t or won’t explain? (BTW, don't just respond with "I don't!", it would look real bad)

I'm tempted to do so, just to be spiteful.

But the fact of the matter is, I didn't make up any statement. That needed any further explaination. If you feel otherwise, feel free to point it out.

Like I said, you make a lot of statements but you never explain a one of them. Where are the details from the story that support what you’re ideas? Maybe you don’t include them because they DON’T support what you're saying? He (reborn Griffith/Femto/Baby monster, "villain") acted very much like Griffith actually, I don’t think Femto would waste time by going to Godo’s house so he could catch up on old times with Guts. Also, if you examine his behavior around Guts ("Thats the kind of man I've always been...only you knew that.), Caska (nuff said, maybe the baby, but certainly not Femto) and Rickert (saying how he should learn the truth, even if it means he will hate him…yeah sounds a lot like Femto to me) and then compare it to Femto and yet still claim that he is UNDENIABLY just Femto on earth than you have truly earned dumbass-status. Don't you think it's a little more complicated than he's either Femto or Griffith?

Wha? Take a deep breath there are start over buddy. You're hyper ventilating.

Just because the brands react to him? That's like saying he's Griffith just because he looks like Griffith?

Because there's no other evidence to support that he's not Femto.

P.S. Anal-Retentive Man sure isn’t very anal-retentive.

My asshole is just retentive and waterproof as the day I sealed up with a soldering iron

 

[Wereallmad]

PS: Stop the name calling.

What fun is a pissing contest without the piss.

That's just two guys waving their penis' around in the air like mad.

 

[Walter]

How cleverly you ignore my post.

 

[Wereallmad]

What did you want me to say? They have a different tailor, it's still the same guy.

 

[Walter]

......thats not what I was driving at AT ALL. Notice the lack of emotion in Femto, and the Emotion in Griffith Reborn.

 

[Wereallmad]

Femto looks determined and angry.

Griffith is smiling.

When Guts cuts off his arm, Femto looks surprised.

When guts attacks Femto in volume 3, it kinda looks like he's smiling.

Anyway, God hand members can smile. look at Slan and Ubik.

I think if he looks emotionless, it's because he's somewhat unprepared for the whole incident himself.

 

[Olivier_Hague]

Also, in volume 3, Guts brand seemed to be reacting, in response to Femto's will, not his presence. Femto sorta "turned up the heat" at one point.

There's nothing in the manga about the brand reacting in response to Femto's will.

And Caska's brand reacts very consistantly with volume 3.

Er... No.
Look at volume 3 again. She would have died. ^^;

 

[Griffith]

So you're telling me I should cut all my responses out of books?

No, but you shouldn’t just pull things out of your ass when debating facts, it’s a form of lying. ;)

That needed any further explaination.

I whole-heartedly agree.

Wha? Take a deep breath there are start over buddy. You're hyper ventilating.

Again, you're avoiding the issue, both my points have just been proven rather uncontested.

-Griffith

P.S. Wereallmad, you simply choose to ignore all the facts and observations that prove your mad proclamations false and you’re holding everyone to a double-standard of debating.  This has been a waste of time, and probably intentionally so? ;)