Griffith's mutilated body could also be seen as symbolism

So, this is my first post on the forum and please bear with me. I'm such a huge fan of Anime and Manga, so even though I haven't finished reading all of Berserk, I'm only on issue 220 out of the 360 I still have a theory and I am curious as to whether or not anyone agrees with it.

So, the death of the Apostle Wyald stuck with me. Wyald was a frail and weak old man, a fact which came to the surprise of the members of the Band of the Hawk. I have a theory on why the apostle looked that way prior to the transformation and how this is is similar to my theory on Griffiths mutilated body, and how it represents Griffiths character.

We do not have any solid evidence about Wyald's character prior to his life as an apostle, though you can infer from the weak and frail individual whose corpse is left behind, before his body is sucked into the vortex, that this was a man who and didn't get to enjoy his life to the fullest, a weak individual who couldn't get away with acting out his vile fantasies. Wyald's entire philosophy of battling for the excitement, the thrill, ebullience could be due to a lack of that in his human life. He probably was the type of person that wanted to violate women, and murder men with his bare hands but perhaps couldn't? Perhaps Wyald suffered some sexual or physical abuse in his lifetime, causing him to lash out at others when he obtained a position of power?

I assume that all owners of beherit/behelit's evoke the God Hand when at their weakest point in life, in desperate need of the miraculous, 'divine' intervention in order to reinvigorate themselves with power, transforming into a body that represents their intrinsic desire.

How does this apply to Griffith? Well, maybe you will disagree with me but I think that the abuse Griffith endured and the sight of his mutilated corpse wasn't just for shock value or to invoke sympathy in the viewer, but for symbolic or metaphorical purposes.

His abuse was a symbol of his emotional torture from Gut's departure, as was the Hawks decline from potentially becoming Nobles to being wanted for their commander committing treason. To me, the frail and meek Griffith prior to the eclipse is a direct representation of the jealous, controlling, weak person he is and the veneer of confidence that he displayed while being the leader of the Band of the Hawk is somewhat superficial.

Once Guts is gone, Griffith loses the esteem he once had and his methodical nature and keen judgement is absent, clearly, when he decided to fornicate with the Princess.

Griffith was a successful leader, but like all who became a sacrifice at the Eclipse and all the corpses that piled up to create his dream, Griffith has always relied on recognizing strength in others and utilizing those strengths for his own desires. His physical disposition also invokes sympathy in Guts and Casca, causing Casca to cry out to Guts that she can't leave Griffith that way. Just like the person he was his mutilated state directly brings about those emotions. Just like the weak person he was internally, despite however strong and charismatic he may have appeared, he decided to run away from the shocking realization that his prized soldier would leave him, deducing the number of corpses he could rely on and proving that in his lowest moments he had no one to stand on. So, what could he do? Evoke the God Hand during the eclipse and transcend into something that he once was not, a divine being, a deity, a ruler, a member of the God Hand.

I do like Griffith and think he is a very well written character, but I cannot help but hate the person he is slowly revealed to be, and the way that he attempted to deny Guts his freedom from him. It just didn't sit well with me, nor did his betrayal of the Band of the Hawk during the eclipse, self-sacrifice is a benevolent behavior that a malevolent person who would partake in the ritual sacrifice in order to become a member of the God Hand or an apostle, would not practice. Even if you don't agree can you loosely see what I'm trying to point out?
 
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Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Welcome!

We do not have any solid evidence about Wyald's character prior to his life as an apostle, though you can infer from the weak and frail individual whose corpse is left before his body is sucked into the vortex, that this was a man who was a physically weaker and didn't get to enjoy his life to the fullest. Due to Wyald's entire philosophy of battling for the excitement, as an example. He probably was the type of person that wanted to violate women, and murder men with his bare hands but perhaps couldn't? Perhaps Wyald suffered some sexual or physical abuse in his lifetime, causing him to lash out at others when he obtained a position of power?

I think it's made pretty clear just from Wyald's personality that he was compensating for something as an apostle that he lacked as a normal human. But he's not a special case -- that's how it is for all the apostles whose origins we've learned.

in order to reinvigorate themselves with power, transforming into a body that represents their intrinsic desire.

To be specific: Their souls are infused with evil power, which consequently changes their corporeal forms into that of an apostle. But you're right, that form is a twisted reflection of their desire.

His abuse was a symbol of his emotional torture from Gut's departure,

Guts was a large ingredient in the overall tragedy of Griffith's downfall. But I think you're placing too much emphasis on that and ignoring the actual agent of his decrepitude--the folly of his ambition. If Griffith's hobbled, mutilated form is a symbol of anything, it's an inverted mirror for his ambition to hold the world in his hands. His agency and his beauty, the gifts he used to enrapture the country, were surgically erased, leaving a husk bereft of both.

To me, the frail and meek Griffith prior to the eclipse is a direct representation of the jealous, controlling, weak person he is and the veneer of confidence that he displayed while being the leader of the Band of the Hawk is partly due to his success as a result of his members, primarily Guts. Once Guts is gone, Griffith loses the esteem he once had and his calculated decision making is absent, clearly, when he decided to fornicate with the Princess.

Just like the weak person he was internally, despite however strong and charismatic he may have appeared, he decided to run away from the shocking realization that his prized soldier would leave him, deducing the number of corpses he could rely on and proving that in his lowest moments he had no one to stand on.

In general, I think you're selling Griffith short here. In particular by calling his manipulated, broken mental state after a year of intense torture "weak." Now, he's human so he's weak by nature of course. But Griffith was an exceptional human being who happened to make incredibly bad life decisions, time after time. Also, he's not actually meek in this state, he's just unable to move or talk. If you pay close attention from vol 10 through the Eclipse, you'll see that he's really very much like his old self. He even cares deeply about his friends still -- right up to the very end :griffnotevil:

I also feel that by omission of its mention in your post, you might have overlooked the significance of Griffith's internal friction with his chosen path. It's important because in addition to it being a recipe for his sacrifice, it's ultimately this conflict that laid the blueprint for Femto. I kinda thought that's where you were heading with this thread, given your opening line about Wyald, but maybe not...?

Griffith had built a wall around his heart in an attempt to buffer himself from the feelings of sympathy he regarded as a deterrent from the pursuit of his dream. The boy who wanted to be a knight, but died in service to Griffith, and the effect this had on Griffith, is made the clearest example of these stress fractures. Femto represents Griffith unshackled from his perceived weakness of sympathy. Among other things, that's at the core of what he sought to become when he transformed, as evidenced by what he tells Guts on the Hill of Swords: "It seems I am now free."

I'm also going to tag Aazealh here because he addressed why Griffith's transformation was fundamentally different from lowly apostles' in another recent thread:

Griffith underwent a deep transformation when he became Femto. It's not just that his body was changed, and in fact his corporeal body was discarded when he was reborn as Femto. Only his spiritual self remained. Femto then regained a corporeal body when he was incarnated in volume 21. What happened during the Eclipse is that Griffith's soul was infused with evil power, and to a degree that is far beyond what apostles go through. It's a profound change, and that's why it's called a rebirth: the old self dies and a new one is born.
 
Welcome!



I think it's made pretty clear just from Wyald's personality that he was compensating for something as an apostle that he lacked as a normal human. But he's not a special case -- that's how it is for all the apostles whose origins we've learned.



To be specific: Their souls are infused with evil power, which consequently changes their corporeal forms into that of an apostle. But you're right, that form is a twisted reflection of their desire.



Guts was a large ingredient in the overall tragedy of Griffith's downfall. But I think you're placing too much emphasis on that and ignoring the actual agent of his decrepitude--the folly of his ambition. If Griffith's hobbled, mutilated form is a symbol of anything, it's an inverted mirror for his ambition to hold the world in his hands. His agency and his beauty, the gifts he used to enrapture the country, were surgically erased, leaving a husk bereft of both.





In general, I think you're selling Griffith short here. In particular by calling his manipulated, broken mental state after a year of intense torture "weak." Now, he's human so he's weak by nature of course. But Griffith was an exceptional human being who happened to make incredibly bad life decisions, time after time. Also, he's not actually meek in this state, he's just unable to move or talk. If you pay close attention from vol 10 through the Eclipse, you'll see that he's really very much like his old self. He even cares deeply about his friends still -- right up to the very end :griffnotevil:

I also feel that by omission of its mention in your post, you might have overlooked the significance of Griffith's internal friction with his chosen path. It's important because in addition to it being a recipe for his sacrifice, it's ultimately this conflict that laid the blueprint for Femto. I kinda thought that's where you were heading with this thread, given your opening line about Wyald, but maybe not...?

Griffith had built a wall around his heart in an attempt to buffer himself from the feelings of sympathy he regarded as a deterrent from the pursuit of his dream. The boy who wanted to be a knight, but died in service to Griffith, and the effect this had on Griffith, is made the clearest example of these stress fractures. Femto represents Griffith unshackled from his perceived weakness of sympathy. Among other things, that's at the core of what he sought to become when he transformed, as evidenced by what he tells Guts on the Hill of Swords: "It seems I am now free."

I'm also going to tag Aazealh here because he addressed why Griffith's transformation was fundamentally different from lowly apostles' in another recent thread:
Damn, the kind of stuff that impressed me about his forum is how you were able to break down what I said and analyze the story and bring up better points.

You are right about me not giving Griffith enough credit and I felt that while typing my post but I didn't know how to state my idea without sounding that way. That's why I did try to convey that I did like things about him. I also was going to focus on the reflection of his ambition in his form in another post and things for explaining the process in which a God Hand member is created again, them being imbued with evil energy. You're good at analyzing fiction!
 
Welp, thanks man. Been doing this a while. You should check out our re-read podcasts if you're interested in more. This one in particular is about Volume 12, Griffith's sacrifice, and apostle forms.
Quick question, for my first post what did you think?

Thanks! While I'm at work I read a lot of your stuff on the computer, in my little cubicle. I love doing it! I work for the City so they can monitor everything I view online, with giant pictures of Femto violating Casca, you can see why I'd hesitate to read the manga at work. This forum is great! I can discuss symbolism, metaphors, allusions pretty much anything Berserk on the forums for this site. I really want to get on a higher level of analysis and potentially work with you guys, maybe join the team if possible. Just gotta prove myself ya' know?
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Quick question, for my first post what did you think?
I like any excuse to talk about the series, as long as the person is realistic about their objectives with a topic (the opposite would be: "In this thread I solve what really happened 1,000 years ago"). So I thought it was a good effort.
 
I like any excuse to talk about the series, as long as the person is realistic about their objectives with a topic (the opposite would be: "In this thread I solve what really happened 1,000 years ago"). So I thought it was a good effort.
Thanks man. I just don't want to be seen as one of those people who make very outlandish claims, with zero evidence to back them up. I see that I wasn't giving Griffith enough credit, and I was trying to say his mutilated body is a reflection of his character and Femto's callous nature and new body is a reflection of that character cutting ties with his humanity in order to act solely on his desire, ambition. I I have some ideas for topics like the reason Gut's may have the behelit is for a potential invocation of the God Hand as an opportunity to face them, the moonlight child being the metaphorical Trojan Horse in Griffiths corporeal form as an opportunity to defeat him.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
I have some ideas for topics like the reason Gut's may have the behelit is for a potential invocation of the God Hand as an opportunity to face them

That's not possible. Guts asked Flora about this in volume 24 and she explained why it doesn't work like that.

the moonlight child being the metaphorical Trojan Horse in Griffiths corporeal form as an opportunity to defeat him.

This has been the prevailing view on this forum for 15 years.
 
That's not possible. Guts asked Flora about this in volume 24 and she explained why it doesn't work like that.

Thanks, I didn't remember that.

This has been the prevailing view on this forum for 15 years.

I understand. So I won't post a thread on that subject then.
 
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