Irvine and Sonia Speculation

I'm really curious about Irvine. And I believe both Sonia and Irvine will join the group. I think him and Sonia would travel to elfhelm using the world spiral trees branches in search of Griffith, with Mule too, but along the way their mission will change.I imagine in elfhelm is where the battle between Irvine would happen, there are so many variables here that it would be impossible to fully piece it together, it's mostly just in pieces in my head and it isn't really coherent, I can't conceive a narrative that really works 100% and of course we don't know the events after 364. But I believe Irvine will fight in elfhelm, Sonia as of now is loyal to Griffith you could say complete loyalty, he’s her hero basically, but I think there is still hope for her. I think she and Mule will obviously reunite with Scheirke and Isidro in elfhelm, and I imagine many funny moments between them, and I think maybe Sonia will speak with Danan and finally come to some sort of realisation, and she would impart that knowledge to Irvine as he's fighting and urge him to stop. I think Irvine will comply. I know Irvine already understands Griffith's nature but what if he resonates with elfhelm and he doesn't want it destroyed. This is where my Irvine backstory theory comes in. I was thinking he had a younger sister that he hunted with and maybe she always wanted to find a place like elfhelm maybe something like she wanted a world that isn't like kill or be killed, and there is no prey or predator kind of a thing. She could be similar to Rosine but something tragic happened to her and Irvine lost his eyes trying to save her, she may have been attacked by a bear or a wolf, his form is similar to a wolf. Then after he himself became a lonely hunter, and he understood there is only prey and the predator (there is a gap to what he sacrificed though), but when he visits elfhelm he remembers her dream and he wants to protect it, btw this is just some bullshit I came up with, but I've always wanted an apostle to change sides and I think Irvine is a prime candidate for that. He emphasis that he has always been alone, but I think he's saying that because he doesn't want to remember his past. I think we really will sympathize with Irvine I think, maybe it will be a factor in him turning good.

It could go either way, he could go on a hunting rampage killing creatures in elfhelm and shoot arrows and implode some dwarves but I think the more interesting thing is getting an apostle on our side, maybe then in a battle in falconia he will be seen as a betrayer and will fight another main apostle, because, by that time I believe Sonia will be aiding the group so he will be protecting her. Also To me it would feel really natural to see Irvine in elfhelm amongst the other creatures he would fit in really well and in his apostle form. I'm really curious about his backstory because he seems the most kind hearted apostle, of course he is still an apostle but he seems really unique in his personality, i was really looking forward to more from him. Does anyone have any theories about Irvine specifically?
 
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If there was ever an apostle to join Guts group, i always thought it would be Irvine, Sonia, on the other hand, i see her more as a tragic character, dying for what she believed (Griffith/Femto) but yeah, Irvine always seemed (at least to me) as an individual who came to regret what he became.
 
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If there was ever an apostle to join Guts group, i always thought it would be Irvine, Sonia, on the other hand, i see her more as a tragic character, dying for what she believed (Griffith/Femto) but yeah, Irvine always seemed (at least to me) as an individual who came to regret what he became.
I think for sure Sonia will help the group eventually along with Mule, I think she is too important and has too much potential to just die following Griffith to the end. It is really difficult to see her joining right now because she's always been loyal to Griffith, she believes in his cause but she is still in the dark on the true nature of things, and when that is revealed to her I think she will be swayed, she could read Danans mind or Casca or even Guts to gain a lot of insight into certain events. Near the end of the story I think Sonia will convey an image to the people of falconia to show the true nature of Griffith and the Godhands plan and that falconia isn't this utopia, by that time many more nefarious things could have happened in falconia that could be shown to the people through a vision.
 
I'd be careful about judging Apostles based on their surface-level behavior. A lot of what they project up front is just that: a front to hide the depraved sadists most of them really are. The Count embarked on heretic hunts, but really, that was just an excuse to round up prisoners to satisfy his gluttony and sadism. Rosine liked to think she was some queen of Elves and friend to all children, but she didn't care at all when her subjects, former children she kidnapped and forcefully transformed, murdered each other for fun. Heck, even a complete savage like Wyald liked to act like everyone should act as if there's no tomorrow and indulge in their hedonistic desires, even killing his own men whenever they showed the slightest bit of hesitation out of self-preservation, but panicked once it became clear tomorrow would not be coming for him. And ever since the new Band of the Falcon formed, we have a whole bunch of Apostles showing up acting like they're noble, virtuous knights, but the lord they've sworn fealty to is anything but noble and virtuous, and we all know what Guts has to say about them.

"No point in monsters pretending to be warriors now...narcissistic bastard!"

So when we see Irvine acting like this aloof, loner hunter guy, is that a reflection of who he really is and/or was back when he was human? Or is that just some facade he adopts because that's the cool thing to do and it romanticizes the solitary lifestyle he most definitely adopted in a cruel and evil way?
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
I'm really curious about Irvine. And I believe both Sonia and Irvine will join the group.

I hate that I have to tell you this, but no, an apostle wouldn't join Guts' group. Not only would Irvine not want that, Guts would never accept it. And likely neither would Casca nor Schierke, nor anyone else really.

Irvine's the quiet loner type, but he did join Griffith's forces like all the others. He and Sonia did have a few nice little moments, but like Cyrus Jong said, apostles shouldn't be judged by their surface-level behavior. There's no arguing around this sort of basic facts about the series. And even aside from that, it's unnatural for an apostle to turn away from their masters, as we saw with Ganishka.

I'm really curious about Irvine. And I believe both Sonia and Irvine will join the group. I think him and Sonia would travel to elfhelm using the world spiral trees branches in search of Griffith, with Mule too, but along the way their mission will change.

Given how the story progressed, it's most likely that Griffith would have left the island in episode 365 or 366. So there would have been no need for anyone to come and find him. Not to mention what Danan said in episode 364 about how not everyone can just enter the island.

I know Irvine already understands Griffith's nature but what if he resonates with elfhelm and he doesn't want it destroyed.

What if Grunbeld resonates with Elfhelm and doesn't want it destroyed? What if Zodd resonates with Elfhelm and doesn't want it destroyed? Or what if neither Irvine, Grunbeld nor Zodd cares very much about it, because they're apostles? Irvine is a hunter, and he longs for prey. He's a woodsman, but not in the "frolicking in the woods and subsisting on berries" sense.

(there is a gap to what he sacrificed though)

If we take your fan fiction as a base, after becoming blind during a hunt that went wrong, Irvine would have offered his own sister as a sacrifice to become the apostle he is. That's how it works.

Also To me it would feel really natural to see Irvine in elfhelm amongst the other creatures he would fit in really well and in his apostle form.

Too bad Rochine are her elves can't be there as well! They'd fit in really well! :ganishka:

I think for sure Sonia will help the group eventually along with Mule, I think she is too important and has too much potential to just die following Griffith to the end.

Yes, Sonia is a very interesting character and her development could go a number of ways. I do think she would eventually realize that Griffith is not a nice person, but later in the story, after his plans become more clear. Charlotte, Anna, Raban, Sonia and Mule all have the potential for becoming involved in a secret resistance group in the end portion of the series.
 
I hate that I have to tell you this, but no, an apostle wouldn't join Guts' group. Not only would Irvine not want that, Guts would never accept it. And likely neither would Casca nor Schierke, nor anyone else really.

Irvine's the quiet loner type, but he did join Griffith's forces like all the others. He and Sonia did have a few nice little moments, but like Cyrus Jong said, apostles shouldn't be judged by their surface-level behavior. There's no arguing around this sort of basic facts about the series. And even aside from that, it's unnatural for an apostle to turn away from their masters, as we saw with Ganishka.
I just think Miura was hinting at something with Irvine here, he purposefully showed him being kind, he could have just had him do nothing, and on multiple occasions he's saved Sonia and other people like Rickert and Erica and Mule. Of course in Rickert's case he was just doing his job and the cockatrice was an astral creature that needed to be killed but still, I get the feeling Miura was setting something up with him. Yes you can't just base them of their surface level actions but those actions were shown for a reason. I see Irvine as completely separate to the others because he hasn't done or said anything too damning, i think he would at least aid the group at some point with Sonia, and Guts will obviously be against it but he will reluctantly have to accept. Have we seen another apostle that shows kindness to a human? (I know both Humans and apostles fought together but that doesn't necessarily count) I think after Irvine heard Sonia's story it touched him in some way and he acted kindly towards her, a small gesture but I think Miura was foreshadowing something.

What if Grunbeld resonates with Elfhelm and doesn't want it destroyed? What if Zodd resonates with Elfhelm and doesn't want it destroyed? Or what if neither Irvine, Grunbeld nor Zodd cares very much about it, because they're apostles? Irvine is a hunter, and he longs for prey. He's a woodsman, but not in the "frolicking in the woods and subsisting on berries" sense.
It's true, and of course we know very little about him, but for me personally I think he is being setup to be different than the others, who knows if he travels to elfhelm he could stay there and live with the creatures together after he has helped Guts, and after the story is over and we see all the characters it will cut to Irvine eating berries and drinking tea with the creatures.

Yes, Sonia is a very interesting character and her development could go a number of ways. I do think she would eventually realize that Griffith is not a nice person, but later in the story, after his plans become more clear. Charlotte, Anna, Raban, Sonia and Mule all have the potential for becoming involved in a secret resistance group in the end portion of the series.
I think you are forgetting someone important. Foss he will finally try to backstab Griffith, he will get back into his conspiratorial ways and be the leader of the resistance. "That's for laying your hands on my daughter you hawk!" In all seriousness I've always thought the resistance group is an amazing idea. Who knows maybe Luca will be the leader, it would actually be so Interesting to show how far she has come since being a prostitute and now saving humanity.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
I just think Miura was hinting at something with Irvine here, he purposefully showed him being kind, he could have just had him do nothing, and on multiple occasions he's saved Sonia and other people like Rickert and Erica and Mule. Of course in Rickert's case he was just doing his job and the cockatrice was an astral creature that needed to be killed but still, I get the feeling Miura was setting something up with him.

Yes, Miura gave his character depth. He has a nuanced personality. But he's still a monster. Just because he was cordial with a human ally in a specific context doesn't mean he would have turned on his master and joined a group led by branded people. That's a huge leap of logic.

I see Irvine as completely separate to the others because he hasn't done or said anything too damning, i think he would at least aid the group at some point with Sonia, and Guts will obviously be against it but he will reluctantly have to accept.

This reminds me of the people who desperately wanted to believe Griffith's lieutenants weren't apostles (back in the day). They kept hoping, even as more of them were revealed to be apostles over the years. Thinking that just because we haven't seen him do something bad so far means he's a nice dude who's completely unlike the others is childlike logic. At the end of the day, we don't need to see him do something damning to know he's capable of it, because we know what he is.

Have we seen another apostle that shows kindness to a human?

The Count was as kind and loving as he could towards Theresia. Rochine was nice to Jill. The Beherit Apostle was courteous with Luka. Zodd spared Guts' life in Vritannis.

It's true, and of course we know very little about him, but for me personally I think he is being setup to be different than the others, who knows if he travels to elfhelm he could stay there and live with the creatures together after he has helped Guts, and after the story is over and we see all the characters it will cut to Irvine eating berries and drinking tea with the creatures.

It's really hard for me to believe you're not pulling my chain here...

I think you are forgetting someone important. Foss he will finally try to backstab Griffith, he will get back into his conspiratorial ways and be the leader of the resistance. "That's for laying your hands on my daughter you hawk!" In all seriousness I've always thought the resistance group is an amazing idea. Who knows maybe Luca will be the leader, it would actually be so Interesting to show how far she has come since being a prostitute and now saving humanity.

No, I did not forget about him. I didn't include him because he seems less likely to be swayed and/or to survive such an endeavor. And yes, I would also expect Luka and her girls to play a part from outside the castle.
 

Lithrael

Remember, always hold your apple tight
I kind of like the old theory that Irvine's sacrifice was his vision. Or more obviously, the theory where his story of always being alone is a fabrication to help him forget a sacrificed companion. It's fun to imagine all kinds of unlikely things though; picture Irvine and a legendary stag half-killing each other and Irvine offering up the animal but the real sacrifice is giving up the notion of ever besting the legendary stag in the hunt himself. Think Captain Ahab sacrificing (his obsession with) the White Whale.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
I don’t think i’d ever thought much about his apostle form being bestial as relating to his sacrifice, but I like the idea of him giving up his great hunt. It seems particularly bloodless for an apostle sacrifice though.
 
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