Star Wars: Episode IX

Too late :ganishka: I mean... yeah... in my opinion the prequels were a slightly better *polished* turd and the Disney films were the regular turds. All I'm saying is that the story/scripts were laid out years prior and were fleshed out. It was just executed really poorly (and some poor decisions by Lucas himself). Maybe I'm crazy, I don't know, but I think there are a few good qualities about those prequels.
It might just be because I'm one of the younger fans who grew up as the PT came out (though I've always preferred the OT, even as a kid), but I agree with you. Lucas stuck to his guns and didn't let people on the Internet tell him what to do. He had an idea of where the story was supposed to go and made it. The OT is better because editors stopped him from entirely indulging himself, and the PT would have worked with people commenting back on that core vision, but the six films at least tell one story.

I dislike the MCU movies on the whole personally, but they're clearly very beloved and successful. It seems to me that the wiser strategy here would have been to follow that mold. Pay respect to long-term fans' commitment by having certain storylines or references taken from weird EU material but have it integrate into a fresh vision of how all the moving parts in Star Wars work. The EU, to me, is proof that the continuing adventures of one family of space monarchs is NOT the core of what draws people to the series. Having Luke be the one to deliver some dampers on how just and noble the Jedi actually are is a little weird for that character, especially when you have one director who writes him as Space Jesus in Exile and another who wants to make a point about how a war veteran would actually feel about continuing such a struggle decades later. But fans have been very receptive to gray Jedi saying the exact same things Luke talks about in VIII time and again in random video games and comics and novels. The MCU has ripped off entire multi-film arcs from the comic books, but Star Wars for some reason chose to avoid the predictable Thrawn trilogy path to... remake ANH and then hand the series based in broad archetypal fantasy off to someone who does a bit more psychologically driven harder sci-fi. But this is all probably silly to say 'cause The Mandalorian is being helmed by MCU folks and seems to signpost a firm turn away from the third rail of extending the Skywalker clan's stories.
 

Griffith

My posts are better.
We're all irrational about how good or bad these new Star Wars movies are. They're actually fine, well made in fact, a lot of thought and effort going in, but they're nothing special. Star Wars was special. Even the prequels were special because we had to wait a long time for them, we weren't sure we'd ever get more Star Wars, they were unique and finite, and they were even especially bad, maybe the worst/most dissapointing big budget movies in history (and they were still a hit)! Conversely, these new movies are being mass produced annually, sometimes released months apart, the projects, development and productions never stop. They will never stop, likely to keep being made after we're all dead (fortunately we'll have long since stopped caring =). They're made by competent, talented and faithful fans of the originals, but fans, even professionals, aren't necessarily the best to carry on a legacy they're all too aware of, especially when there wasn't anything necessarily left to carry on (or it was put in the trash). Anyway, they may be well done, and they pantomime the originals, but they're still not special because you can't just imitate that (TFA comes close =). They're not even special compared to any other well funded, well done blockbuster franchise these days. Except these mass produced blockbusters purport to be Star Wars, which only makes it all the more glaring that they're not much different or better than anything else, which cheapens the originals they're imitating. That's what makes them seem all the more unworthy.

The prequels having something, perhaps more consistent or uniform narrative vision, that the new movies lack don't make them better, or even good, just as the new movies being better than the prequels don't make them good either (it's too generous a litmus test to limit ourselves too). The prequels are terribly done movies on many levels, including the plot and most story elements, that really only work when one's not actually watching them, but remembering/reimagining them as some sort of idealized mythothology. The reality is Hayden Christianson doing bad high school theater in front of an episode of Reboot. You wouldn't be admiring George Lucas' great vision during the "romance" between Anakin and Padme. Same for the politics or anything else, really; even the fall of the Jedi was given short shrift and the rise of Vader was a disappointing afterthought that's the modern equivalent of a post-credits stinger. Lucas deserves credit for his innovative methods though, he basically reinvented the modern blockbuster all over again; today they all follow his heavily CGI'd template, but at best it was like a tech demo for a new way to make movies, though left to others to actually make something worthwhile.

So, the Disney movies are still better than the prequels, even the individual stories, though they may lack cohesion. But even if they're infinitely more fluent films, they also have nothing to say, except: "Hey, remember Star Wars? Star Wars is good and important and the best and you love this!!.?" The good news is, unlike the prequels or this new movies, we don't have to live with it and wait 20 years for another chance. They're going to keep making this stuff for better or worse, and giving talented creators shots, hopefully getting more free of the baggage of the originals/prequels, so eventually one of them will hopefully beat the odds and make something special again in its own right (The Mandalorian may not be that, but at least it will eventually allow/force them out of some familiar patterns). The mass production machine has more potential when you stop caring about the quality of each individual piece and consider that eventually anything is possible. Maybe they'll even let George Lucas come back and make his weird Whills trilogy in the Microbiotic World for Disney+. =)
 
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This trilogy isn't going to have any cohesion. Any meaningful arc is going to have to be cobbled together in this last film. That's a daunting task considering how much apologizing and backpedaling is required to fix what TLJ did. I've always hated on the prequels but TLJ was just unwatchable for me. This trilogy is gonna make the Matrix look like Lord of the Rings.

I only watched TLJ one time way back so I can't recall everything that was infuriating me but the biggest one was the whole fucking alien racehorse thing. They cause a bunch of chaos to rescue these stupid horses and I suppose this is meant to preach on the ills of horse racing???? I mean pick your battles people, who gives a shit, there's a galactic, planet exploding war taking place! After they successfully liberate these majestic alien beasts they just ride off in their spaceship and you see these left behind orphans looking up at the stars like "uh, hey, what about us?" FUCK YOU WE CAME FOR THE HORSES LOL!!!!! Nothing in the prequels ever made me so angry as that casino plot. Are you really trying to preach about casinos, animal rights, and income inequality right now???? Get the fuck outta here! It was so heavy-handed, LITERALLY did not affect the story, and left me gasping for air. Like I said this is the one that sticks out but there were a bunch of other scenes that left me frustrated (The bombers scene was insane too).

As my good friend Mr. Plinkett likes to say, the prequels were flawed because they made the whole universe about Darth Vader. His importance is super overblown and it leads to an incredible misfire where now Darth Vader is just Haden Christensen in a robot suit. Listen, Vader was way fucking better before you put that image in my head. This same thing is now happening with Palpatine. They had a dude locked and loaded ready to be Darth Plagueis and they killed him unceremoniously. Now we gotta bring Palpatine back to fix this mess. Now the whole fucking universe is about PALPATINE!!!! What's happening?

These movies are well shot, the practical effects are nice, the thing looks like a movie. YAY. But otherwise, it's shit. Kids are way more into Marvel and Fortnite than they ever will be into Star Wars because these movies SUCK. They aren't special, they aren't uplifting, they aren't inspiring. No, they are confusing and depressing and I hate that I even fucking care.
 

Aazealh

そうはいかぬ
Staff member
Too late :ganishka: I mean... yeah... in my opinion the prequels were a slightly better *polished* turd and the Disney films were the regular turds. All I'm saying is that the story/scripts were laid out years prior and were fleshed out. It was just executed really poorly (and some poor decisions by Lucas himself). Maybe I'm crazy, I don't know, but I think there are a few good qualities about those prequels.
The story and characters are dismal in the prequels. It's embarrassingly amateurish and clearly the result of a terrible creative process. That being said, I will agree with you that they had more coherence movie to movie than these new ones do. Which is pretty baffling to be honest, because that was a LOW bar to pass. And frankly, while people give Disney shit for it, I think it shows Disney's error in this case was that they didn't hold the screenwriter/director's leash tightly enough.
 

Griffith

My posts are better.
Hey guys, don't make fun of fanboys and their increasingly over-the-top, hysterical and unhinged reaction videos, you're being intolerant of... something (the mentally and emotionally disturbed; that's probably too accurate =)?

I will agree with you that they had more coherence movie to movie than these new ones do. Which is pretty baffling to be honest, because that was a LOW bar to pass. And frankly, while people give Disney shit for it, I think it shows Disney's error in this case was that they didn't hold the screenwriter/director's leash tightly enough.
It goes back to the question of what's the point of some stupid story group or committee to shepherd the overall plot along if they're not even going to catch and address basic continuity like Rian Johnson using Han's dice from a scene JJ cut out as a major plot point? Everyone had to read about the significance of that in a fucking blog post! Same thing for there not being room for a reunion or time for Han's funeral, etc. It's like, YOU'RE making the story, you can spend the time however you choose (glad they spent it on the incredible emotional payoffs of Rose's sister I didn't even know and then Canto Bites' horsedogs; these things demand airtime =).

Don't worry about it though:

:ganishka:
 
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Aazealh

そうはいかぬ
Staff member
His performance was underwhelming at the end. He should have exploded upon hearing the emperor's cackle and started foaming at the mouth and having convulsions when the title appeared.

Hey guys, don't make fun of fanboys and their increasingly over-the-top, hysterical and unhinged reaction videos, you're being intolerant of... something (the mentally and emotionally disturbed; that's probably too accurate =)?
The worst part is I don't think it's even genuine. He's doing it for the likes.

It goes back to the question of what's the point of some stupid story group or committee to shepherd the overall plot along if they're not even going to catch and address basic continuity like Rian Johnson using Han's dice from a scene JJ cut out as a major plot point? Everyone had to read about the significance of that in a fucking blog post! Same thing for there not being room for a reunion or time for Han's funeral, etc. It's like, YOU'RE making the story, you can spend the time however you choose (glad they spent it on the incredible emotional payoffs of Rose's sister I didn't even know and then Canto Bites' horsedogs; these things demand airtime =).
Did they even have a committee here? Because it sure seemed like Rian Johnson was given no direction and just went with whatever he wanted.
 
Did they even have a committee here? Because it sure seemed like Rian Johnson was given no direction and just went with whatever he wanted.
I think it's even worse than that.

Mark Hammill was throwing a fit everyday leading up to the release. If the producers weren't willing to respect his opinion then I doubt anyone could have convinced Rian to change course. Rian actively derailed every plot point TFW setup, it's borderline sabotage. I think there's a faction that wants to destroy the legacy of Episodes 1-6 so viewers will embrace the new, improved, and enlightened Star Wars.
 

Griffith

My posts are better.
The worst part is I don't think it's even genuine. He's doing it for the likes.
Oh, it's the only reason to bother to film and publish this ginned up nonsense.

Did they even have a committee here? Because it sure seemed like Rian Johnson was given no direction and just went with whatever he wanted.
I'm not sure what they do, honestly. Their big "decision" on the EU was to throw it out wholesale, likely so it could all be repackaged and resold to us again (the new Thrawn books, etc); not exactly a choice that required meticulous examination and evaluation, "Wipe them out... All of them!" Or DO throw out the baby with the bathwater. =)

I think it's even worse than that.

Mark Hammill was throwing a fit everyday leading up to the release. If the producers weren't willing to respect his opinion then I doubt anyone could have convinced Rian to change course.
To be fair, Mark Hamill has been lightly bitching about the direction of his character and nobody listening to him since Return of the Jedi, so that's not really a big change. He is correct though that his role and characterization in all this new stuff was mishandled, even his cameo at the end of TFA to his appearance in TLJ is completely incongruent, let alone compared to Luke's core character in the OT. To their credit I think they let Rian Johnson do HIS thing, it's just a lot of it isn't my thing and about half the fanbase agrees. Unfortunately, the alternative with JJ also feels very focus grouped, fan servicey and like a cover band playing someone else's greatest hits. Outdated ones at that; compare any of the set pieces from these movies to the airport fight in Civil War, all of Infinity War, or, it's closest descendent, GotG and see if there's something comparatively fresh or impressive, let alone awesome (maybe the Holdo Manuever). These are basically staid neo retro oldies or classic rock knock offs with modern production, which just makes them unadventurous, derivative and boring.

Rian actively derailed every plot point TFW setup, it's borderline sabotage. I think there's a faction that wants to destroy the legacy of Episodes 1-6 so viewers will embrace the new, improved, and enlightened Star Wars.
White Jedicide! :ganishka:
 
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