The Thread of Zelda

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Looking forward to the sequel to Breath of the Wild, a game product for the Nintendo Switch!

It looks like they're giving us what many (myself included) had been asking for: Dungeons. And that's ...well... HALF of a good game. :void:
 

Wenliinvictus

Without a fairy, you're not even a real man.
I'm not looking forward to Ganon being the main villain again, if that is him, I doubt it would be anyone else covered in those Gerudo symbols. This at least gives them the oppurtunity to iron out the kinks from the previous installment. A focus on more creative dungeons and a more balanced weapons system would be greatley appreciated.
 

Griffith

My posts are better.
This at least gives them the oppurtunity to iron out the kinks from the previous installment. A focus on more creative dungeons and a more balanced weapons system would be greatley appreciated.
Yeah, like get rid of the Master Sword altogether and force you scavenge ALL the time! This was a feature as far as I'm concerned; fuck your set it and forget it or upgrades only weapons systems, you can get that in any other game. =)

And while I'd also like more dungeons or even a robust Underworld mirroring the surface (that may be too much to hope for), but I will say that between the 100+ Shrines, especially the big mazes and special ones, Devine Beasts, and Hyrule Castle it wasn't exactly lacking in dungeons, it just didn't match the... breadth of the wild above. :carcus:

I wouldn't say it's a foregone conclusion.
Well, It doesn't match the Ganon design from BotW, but they could always BS that (this was his original human form all along!). The shock of red hair, clean face, and evil black/red power emanating from him made me check out Demise's design, which is similarly nude save for a wrap around the waste and legs, but he didn't have all the jewelry, particularly the forehead jewel that's a trademark of you-know-who (maybe they were added at burial upon his de... nevermind =). It's hard to imagine it being someone besides Ganon without it being so closely related to Ganon as to not matter or be contrived, "It's really Ganon's brother Ganon!" Speaking of which, I checked and it did vaguely resemble Yuga, a Ganon doppelganger himself, from ALBW. My guess is it's actual human Ganon as opposed to the Calamity or Beast form, but something deepening his and "the Legend's" connection to Demise could be interesting. If you recall in Skyward Sword Demise was at the bottom of a giant crater that eventually became Hyrule when Skyloft fell into it. Now in this trailer we see Hyrule castle seemingly rising out of the ground, so perhaps this is the same location... Again, Occam's Razor suggests this is more likely some typical resurrection of Ganon shit.
 
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Walter

Administrator
Staff member
It's hard to imagine it being someone besides Ganon without it being so closely related to Ganon as to not matter or be contrived, "It's really Ganon's brother Ganon!" Speaking of which, I checked and it did vaguely resemble Yuga, a Ganon doppelganger himself, from ALBW. My guess is it's actual human Ganon as opposed to the Calamity or Beast form, but something deepening his and "the Legend's" connection to Demise could be interesting. If you recall in Skyward Sword Demise was at the bottom of a giant crater that eventually became Hyrule when Skyloft fell into it. Now in this trailer we see Hyrule castle seemingly rising out of the ground, so perhaps this is the same location... Again, Occam's Razor suggests this is more likely some typical resurrection of Ganon shit.
There are only a few things this trailer gives us background on: The setting (at least for the trailer) is deep underground Hyrule Castle, and we know from the history of this iteration that it has endured many assaults by Ganon. There's also a quick flash of a very Ganon-like silhouette (corpse) being overtaken by a sinister-looking hand -- the hand that looks like it has all those Sheikah designs on it. It looks like it's controlling/empowering the Ganon-like figure. So my guess is that whatever that hand is, it's reanimating some failed, past form of Ganon. But the hand is the one doing the work, which is why I don't think the main bad guy is going to be necessarily Ganon. Perhaps a rogue Sheikah. Afterall, from what I remember of BotW, the Shiekah's technology was eventually shunned by the people, and different splinters were created in the tribe. But sure, in all likelihood, given pretty much every other Zelda game, it could SECRETLY BE GANON ALL ALONG! :magni:

Story nonsense aside, my main hope is that they can blend what was lacking from BotW (full-scale dungeons) with the fantastic exploration of the overworld they already nailed.
 
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Griffith

My posts are better.
Yeah, if the game doesn't start with Ganon as the villain from the outset, like many before, it usually ends up with him as the villain. My initial interpretation of the hand holding the body was that it was sealing him, but then it could also be drawing off power... and then it grabs Link. So, we know the desiccated Ganon-like corpse being reanimated is bad, but that ethereal hand of light is the big question mark; is it a force for good, evil or a neutral, though perhaps still hazardous, power. The problem is the whole point could be unraveling that mystery, or it might never appear in the game again after this moment. :ganishka:

Story nonsense aside, my main hope is that they can blend what was lacking from BotW (full-scale dungeons) with the fantastic exploration of the overworld they already nailed.
If they even added dungeons on the level of Twilight Princess I think people would be satisfied, but they seemingly spent almost all that capital on the overworld and the shrines and Devine Beast temples were like separate entities detached from that world. I say get rid of the shrines and put all that effort into naturally integrated dungeon locations within the world, even if that also means a little less focus and activity on the surface.
 

Aazealh

そうはいかぬ
Staff member
My initial interpretation of the hand holding the body was that it was sealing him
That was also my first impression. That being said, I've always wished Nintendo would go for a less simplistic story. Specifically I'd like if they made Ganon, one of the Triforce's chosen ones, into a tragic figure. The one that fell to the darkness by trying to destroy it alone, with Link and Zelda succeeding (and eventually redeeming him) through cooperation. That's make a great story I think, but... It's definitely not happening. :ganishka:
 

Griffith

My posts are better.
That was also my first impression. That being said, I've always wished Nintendo would go for a less simplistic story. Specifically I'd like if they made Ganon, one of the Triforce's chosen ones, into a tragic figure. The one that fell to the darkness by trying to destroy it alone, with Link and Zelda succeeding (and eventually redeeming him) through cooperation. That's make a great story I think, but... It's definitely not happening. :ganishka:
Ganon as the original failed champion would be a great turn, and they could play off that theme and threaten a similar fate for Link here. But like you say, it's never that nuanced or complicated, save for one exception...

"My country lay within a vast desert. When the sun rose into the sky, a burning wind punished my lands, searing the world. And when the moon climbed into the dark of night, a frigid gale pierced our homes. No matter when it came, the wind carried the same thing... Death. But the winds that blew across the green fields of Hyrule brought something other than suffering and ruin. I coveted that wind, I suppose."
Material like this combined with the role and goal reversal of Ganon being the one that wants to use the Triforce to save/restore Hyrule is probably about as clever and subversive as Nintendo is going to get. Since then they've made him either a generic thug or like a malevolent force of nature (or both in TP). I think after WW the best portrayals have been OoT, where he wore pure villainy well, Zelda 3, mainly based on his backstory, deceptions and accomplishments, and BotW for just making him some abstract evil Satan/Sauron. In TP he was a better tease than reveal. In SS they didn't even bother to establish him, which is why I kind of wish they'd explore that further and better tie it to Ganon's mythology. If he can't be a complex character with complicated or even contradictory motivations, they can at least make him evil as hell, which is why I prefer the divine personification non-portrayel in BotW to the couple that directly precede it.
 
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Aazealh

そうはいかぬ
Staff member
Material like this combined with the role and goal reversal of Ganon being the one that wants to use the Triforce to save/restore Hyrule is probably about as clever and subversive as Nintendo is going to get. Since then they've made him either a generic thug or like a malevolent force of nature (or both in TP). I think after WW the best portrayals have been OoT, where he wore pure villainy well, Zelda 3, mainly based on his backstory, deceptions and accomplishments, and BotW for just making him some abstract evil Satan/Sauron. In TP he was a better tease than reveal. In SS they didn't even bother to establish him, which is why I kind of wish they'd explore that further and better tie it to Ganon's mythology. If he can't be a complex character with complicated or even contradictory motivations, they can at least make him evil as hell, which is why I prefer the divine personification non-portrayel in BotW to the couple that directly precede it.
Yeah my favorite versions are probably Zelda 3 and OoT, because they're simple, effective and don't feel out of place. I still think they should make more of an effort though. BotW's lackluster story did it a disservice.
 

Griffith

My posts are better.
Yeah my favorite versions are probably Zelda 3 and OoT, because they're simple, effective and don't feel out of place. I still think they should make more of an effort though. BotW's lackluster story did it a disservice.
Yeah, it would be nice if they went back in the direction from Zelda 3 to Wind Waker, because they've done so little with him since then my BotW approval basically comes down to, "Well, if you're not going to do the character right, don't make him a character at all." At least as some vague, primal existential threat he cast the appropriate shadow and was represented through his minions or sub-forms (like you were essentially fighting against him or his power the whole time, which very directly impacts the final fight). It was almost Souls-like; Ganon as monster of lore. Plus, I liked the human reaper design for him! It was only when they shoehorned in a big ceremonial pig fight at the very end that I was underwhelmed. Basically, he was impressive through his presence, he was nowhere and everywhere, and the act of fighting him in various ways and forms at least.
 
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Agreed, felt like that was the implied promise of it. I wouldn't mind if she was the one rescuing Link for once.
Playable Zelda with mechanics different from Link is something I have wanted for a long time. BotW was built around breaking series conventions and letting us play as the titular character in the next game would continue that trend. I'm not going to get my hopes up over a short teaser, because she could just get whisked away until finale yet again, but the change with her hair makes me think that it was done to avoid clipping with weapons and outfits.
 

Aazealh

そうはいかぬ
Staff member
At least as some vague, primal existential threat he cast the appropriate shadow and was represented through his minions or sub-forms (like you were essentially fighting against him or his power the whole time, which very directly impacts the final fight).
Agreed.

Plus, I liked the human reaper design for him! It was only when they shoehorned in a big ceremonial pig fight at the very end that I was underwhelmed.
Yeah same here. And making him a disconnected final fight is starting to feel like a theme (started in TP) and honestly that's regrettable.

the change with her hair makes me think that it was done to avoid clipping with weapons and outfits.
I don't think long hair would be much of a problem from that standpoint to be honest.
 

Griffith

My posts are better.
Yeah same here. And making him a disconnected final fight is starting to feel like a theme (started in TP) and honestly that's regrettable.
Lame and unfulfilling efforts considerimg what came before. I don't think they'll ever top OoT with the tower stairwell, the cheesy organ, the fight that ends with him spitting up blood (red too in my OG gold edition =), then the castle crumbling and him flying out like a pissed off Superman to transform into a Souls boss a decade before its time. I still can't believe how good the atmospheric lightning was for N64.

I don't think long hair would be much of a problem from that standpoint to be honest.
Yeah, it's an interesting thought but I think Link's hair is longer and plus many of the hats and outfits came with their own custom hair style (if she's playable some outfits may very well have long hair). I took the hair as a thematic symbol that Zelda is being more active and out in the field here, dressed for action, which would seem to indicate this will continue to be the case because she didn't need to have short just hair for that scene. She's also dressed very similarly to Link, obviously.
 
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Aazealh

そうはいかぬ
Staff member
I don't think they'll ever top OoT with the tower stairwell, the cheesy organ, the fight that ends with him spitting up blood (red too in my OG gold edition =), then the castle crumbling and him flying out like a pissed off Superman to transform into a Souls boss a decade before its time. I still can't believe how good the atmospheric lightning was for N64.
Never say never, I think they could get it done if they only bothered to construct a thematically and narratively coherent ending. Just rehashing this human form + apostle form (yeah I went there :iva:) progression with today's graphics would be miles better than the non sequitur shit they're pulling these days.

Yeah, it's an interesting thought but I think Link's hair is longer and plus many of the hats and outfits came with their own custom hair style (if she's playable some outfits may very well have long hair). I took the hair as a thematic symbol that Zelda is being more active and out in the field here, dressed for action, which would seem to indicate this will continue to be the case because she didn't need to have short just hair for that scene. She's also dressed very similarly to Link, obviously.
Agreed, it's a way to subvert the image of the "delicate / weak princess" without going all the way into super-ninja Sheik style.
 
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