True Friendship...why'd he go?

White_Hawk

The Only True Free Spirit / Dark Horse Rider
I just re watched for the 90823590238 time the whole tv series, and it strikes me how wel portrayed is the relationship between griffy and gatsu. In episode 15, after the fight whith the 100, gatsu returns to the camp, but griffis is on a war council until later. He then returns earlier because of gatsu, and the moment he arrives is just...so...sniff (commotion :'( )
ANYWAY (grunt voice), when they meet, with "Earth" plaiying in the back shows how much they're pals. And also, when gatsu fetches the bystanding nobody Hawk, saying "let's drink" shows how much he actually enjoyed that life, even tough he decided moments ago to quit. Why he'd go.
His parting triggered the whole thing. "A cog began to turn".
So, thread is...were they truly friends or was griffy slowly accepting gatsu as a friend among all the people he met?
Or was Gatsu a beautiful tool, precious to lose?
And why gatsu had to leave?
 

Fishbomb

Fear the slightly white swordsman!
I agree *sniff* That is such a powerful scene and one of the reasons I really LOVE Miura's work amon the umteenth billion other things I read. Because he writes about Real people with real emotions. And I do wish that I could get the beautiful Maga artwork with the misic and the voice acting from the anime.. then I'd be really ahppy...

So why DID Gatts leave? Well, because people somethimes don't realise what they have in life, always preferring to look at what they Lack. Gatts kept remembering Griffith's words about what being a friend meant to him, how it was someone with their own path, their own agenda. I think that Gatts took that very much to heart, and while he was really happy there, he also felt that he could not be a real person, someone that Griffith could respect as a friend. Yes... they were friends, one of the more heartbreaking friendships I have seen portrayed in fiction, but there were always shadows between them. For Gatts that was the fear that deep down Griffith only saw him as a follower, someone loyal, someone he could rely on but in the end just a follower. I think that Gatts wanted more. Respect maybe.

Even though I think he would loathe to admit it, Griffith had become sort of a bigger brother figure for Gatts, someone that he wanted equal, to be able to look in the eyes and know that they were on the same level. For the first time I think that Gatts found something he could aspire to that was not related to battle. A dream, conviction, strenght of mind perhaps... I think that he felt that he had to find his own dream, what he really was about, and that he could not find that in Griffith's shadow. And thus he had to leave.

What he did not realise was how many other things he had gained in this life, for the first time he had a family, friends that he cared about, that would fight with him, fight for him, that he could enjoy himself with. He had respect, people admired and trusted him, and I think that Gatts never really noticed that. Why? Because he was so busy focusing on the fact that Griffith was the leader, the man with the dream, that ne hever realised that other people might see them as equals. Gatts wanted to beat Griffith at his own game, to be strong in the very same way Griffith was, without ever realising that he was just as strong, just as important. Just not in the same way...

In conclusion: I think that Gatts saw Griffith as his friend, and was hurt when Griffith indirectly claimed that he was not. He left, both to punish Griffith for being such an asshole, and to find himself. Unfortunately never once did he ponder the effect this would have on people, or on himself, which is typical when you think about it, Gatts never was very skilled at reading peoples emotions. His personal life seems as reckless and uncompromising as his fighting style.
 

Fishbomb

Fear the slightly white swordsman!
And what about Griffith I hear you ask? Well, not really, but I sure love to rable about subjects like this... :p

Did Griffith consider Gatts to be his friend? I don't think he'd admit to that even if threatened with a pointed stick.It was important to Griffith to have loyal tools, not friends. Because his dream was the one thing of importance to him. But I say that he was wrong. Because his actions betray him. Not only the friendly, almost flirty behaviour in the beginning, after all that might be nothing more than another side of him, like the one that comforted Casca. He was never emotionless, just all too adept at using emotions to further his cause, his own as well as others. No, I'm talking about the times when Griffith doubted, when he actually asked Gatts what he thought, looked to him for support. When he started to wonder what Gatts felt, if he felt used. It was the first time ever I have seen Griffith turn to someone else for support, normally he was the invincible one. To do something like that... For me at least that is a clear sign that Griffith actually valued Gatts opinions, not only for fighting and war, but for his whole cause, his ideas... his dream.

Yes, Gatts came between Griffith and his dream, and it was quite obvious that had this parting not happened, Griffith would have to make a decision. Which was more important... his own feelings, or his dream. Now Gatts made that decision for Griffith, leaving, and by doing that ruining his whole carefully balanced life. Gatts quite obviously broke Griffith's heart, and I think that his departure paved the way for the whole eclipse.

In conclusion: I think that Griffith considered Gatts his friend, if not really his equal. In some ways though, he was far more dependant on Gatts than the other way around. Did he love Gatts? I would say that he did, but there really is not that much difference between love and real friendship, so I'll give it the benifit of the doubt. But for something to come between Griffith and his Dream, that has to be some pretty powerful emotions...

:-[ :-[

Damnit, I still think that Gatts and Griffith DESERVE to be friends damnit! They deserve to have things work out between them and Casca. Do I think it will happen? Probably not... But I sure as hell will stay peeled to the screen, waiting for next issue... *sob*
 

viridis

lost in the swirling mist
The problem with Griffith and Guts is that they were both so full of their own lives that they couldn't think about the lives of others. Griffith was consumed by his ambition of power, and Guts with his desire to live his own life. While they were great as a team, neither one could fully admit it.

*has friends in real life with similar tendencies*
 

White_Hawk

The Only True Free Spirit / Dark Horse Rider
Yeah but, that makes gatsu really #dense#.
Couldn't he figure out Griffy did care.
Overall, Gatsu isn't a genius like many ppl that surround him.
He's actually good *only* at wielding a sword and bashing ppl.
So sad.
That's why he has all those moments of deep thoughts later, methinx.
Anyway, I wouldn't like him to become too smart, since it may affect his fighting. Zoddo tried to think once, and whoosh, off goes the horn!!! ;)
 

Fishbomb

Fear the slightly white swordsman!
Yeah but, that makes gatsu really #dense#.
Couldn't he figure out Griffy did care.

Yeah, just like in real life. People often miss what's obvious for onlookers. I like Gatts and Griffith's relationship. Gatts the confident level-headed bimbo who keeps the spirits up on the far too emotional geniuos Griffith.

As one of my friends said: "I want a Gatts too damnit!"

Admittedly probably a curvaceous one with great tits, but I think you get the point.... :p
 

maximus

Es ist einsam im Nebel zu wandern...
As one of my friends said: "I want a Gatts too damnit!"
Don t u think that there are some gatts or griffith types outthere??
However there is a little gatts in both of us,no?!
 

CnC

Ad Oculos
I beleive Gattsu realized that Griffith was his friend.  The occurance of Griffith saying his friend is his equal shocked Gattsu .  While he later realized that Griffith _did_ see him as a friend, the shock made Gattsu question himself.  He decided to leave the hawks to strike out on his own and not be a mere tool in Griffith's arsenal, but to be a true friend.
Of course, Griffith didn't see it that way, merely as a batrayal...



...while i re-read this post (something I usually don't do), I realized that most of it didn't make sense... am I always like this?!
 

trapped_soul

"This is it. It's over."
...while i re-read this post (something I usually don't do), I realized that most of it didn't make sense...  am I always like this?!
i think it's actually a pretty good post. i don't recall me reading a post of you that was out of reason... i guess there's no reason to be precarious. :)
 
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