Virginia Tech shootings kill 32+ people

[Walter]

I am posing for the hammer time.​

CNN has many of the pictures, and several excerpts of Cho's "manifesto."
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/18/vtech.shooting/index.html

"The package was sent by overnight mail, but did not arrive until Wednesday because the address and ZIP code were wrong."

 

[SaiyajinNoOuji]

Another interesting thing was that a South Korean news paper of some sorts made one of those political cartoons showing what had happened with the little thing of having President Bush saying see! Our gun advances are great!

Well this was before they found out that the person doing the killing was South Korean! Jokes on you guys!

Comic that I mentioned!

EDIT:

You know, I still think its funny but anytime a foreigner makes fun of the US and the people are in it, they think that America is comprised of Whites and Blacks. They fail to remember that well, every type of person is here in this crazy place, Koreans, Muslims, Mexicans, hot Euro babes! I just think its funny.

 

[Luca]

This should definitely not just be pinpointed on liking fictional violence, otherwise we'd all be suspect for adoring Berserk so much! Is it so much that fictional violence causes a violent individual, or rather does a violent individual just enjoy fictional violence (along with healthy individuals, too)?

People cannot accept that human beings are all varied in personality, physiology, upbringing, psychology, etc. and what factors into it, meaning that different dispositions can still have the same interests (therefore correlations lead to assumptions and incorrect/irrational conclusions). So when an erratic event such as this happens and brings widescale fatality from just one person, it seems so senseless. And so, everyone begins trying to find something to blame, to make sense of it, because it is frightening and it hurts. In the end, while measures can be taken to ensure security more effectively (but not indefinitely), the only person to blame is the perpetrator of the crime. He could have been any race, creed, religion, or sexuality (with any hobbies/likes/dislikes, too), but in the end it had to do with an individual with violent tendancies not being able to cope with his status in society.

of course, politicians and people of influence and just..everyone will try to find something to blame, whether it's to exploit a tragedy and push their own agenda, or just to find a way to feel safe or assured.

Anyways, this was one messed up man vs. a lot of people who did heroic things to survive and to help others survive. The good really does weigh out the bad in the world, or at least I think so. I wish people saw this.

And those pictures he sent? Piled up with the fact that he stalked, was apparently (though I'm not sure if it is confirmed) institutionalized in 05, and had a 'it's not me, it's them' mentality, I'd just say he's your classic sociopathic narcissist. Anyways, this is just my take on it. I love these boards Sorry for the tl;dr :(

 

[Forest Wraith]

I am posing for the hammer time.

I did chuckle but what's disconcerting is that if I didn't know the things he'd done, I'd honestly just have him pegged as a nerdy introvert hamming it up for the Camera and his friends . . . Hell, I've taken pictures like that with a Hammer . . . Although if I were going to snap and go on a rampage, I'd have done it a while ago.

 

[Ruins]

Basically one of us is focusing on the person and the other on the tool. The debate comes with the the potential of the two things meeting.

While I agree with this, but isn't a tool easier to regulate than a person? My view is that the weapon should always be regulated first, followed by the person. Given that the intended use of guns, especially handguns, is really just for killing human beings or target practice, would regulating something with such a high potential for harm be more worthwhile? While a mentally unstable person can change for the better over time, a gun will always be a tool for destroying things from a distance.

On to a different topic, I noticed that he sent his compressed videos in using QuickTime. So, it seems that Apple is the one to blame here, for making video editing too easy. Considering most people don't use Mac, those that do must now statistically be more likely to kill others. I wonder if that will feature in the next PC versus Mac advertisement.

And I am sure 4chan people are already in the process of making "Party Hard" and "That's Racist" meme gifs of the shooter's videos and pictures.

 

[SaiyajinNoOuji]

And I am sure 4chan people are already in the process of making "Party Hard" and "That's Racist" meme gifs of the shooter's videos and pictures.

I love the internet!

I haven't been to those places but I know others have already done so. Its only been a few hours since we have had the pictures but a few hours in Internet time is like a few weeks!

 

[Forest Wraith]

On some level, I think that that's a very healthy attitude to have, I'd much rather see people mock tragedy instead of overly-dramatizing like the Media would have us do. Of course, that should be balanced with compassion for the victims in the real World but it is refreshing to be able to portray events like this in a humorous light.

 

[SaiyajinNoOuji]

Yea, I was reading some where else that one of the American Idol contestant said that he had a lot of friends over there after his performance where the guy named Simon? said he was horrible. After the contestant mentioned that bit of information about his ties to VT, Simon just rolled his eyes.

I would have to agree, some people are just trying to milk this for what ever reason they can come up with. Gun regulations and pro active steps to try and prevent stuff like this from happening? Sure those are legitimate things that need to be brought up, but as others mentioned, trying to blame video games and other BS for the reason for this to happen along with other shit is the stuff that really irks people.

 

[Ruins]

I would have to agree, some people are just trying to milk this for what ever reason they can come up with. Gun regulations and pro active steps to try and prevent stuff like this from happening? Sure those are legitimate things that need to be brought up, but as others mentioned, trying to blame video games and other BS for the reason for this to happen along with other shit is the stuff that really irks people.

I guess you have to fill the 24 hours 7 days a week news channels with something. The whole idea of having fixed length news reports, or requiring every hour of the day to contain news is just idiotic in my book. How can the same news report have stories about a heroic rescue of an animal from a well, and then spend the same time discussing the worst 1-day death toll in Iraq? Mind boggling ratings-oriented madness.

 

[SaiyajinNoOuji]

Because for the most part we are media whores!

 

[Forest Wraith]

I would have to agree, some people are just trying to milk this for what ever reason they can come up with. Gun regulations and pro active steps to try and prevent stuff like this from happening? Sure those are legitimate things that need to be brought up, but as others mentioned, trying to blame video games and other BS for the reason for this to happen along with other shit is the stuff that really irks people.

Tell me about it . . .

This Shit is more Sickening then anything 4-chan could dream up: http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Virginia_Tech_massacre. If only it were all a joke . . .

 

[ghadrack]

No, but it sure as hell makes it possible for them to realize their mad ambitions. Like I said earlier, without firearms there's no way this guy would have been able to kill so many people. He might not even have had the simple courage to aggress people with a melee weapon.

That really isn't necessarily true, where there is a will there is a way. Anyone can obtain easy to follow directions to make bombs from stuff at the local hardware store, a guy with an SUV at the right place, you get the idea, there are a lot of ways that bad things can happen. Granted, the availability of the weapon likely is a significant factor in their choice, but this really isn't about the weapon it is about the motivation of the attacker, today, 2001, whenever, focussing on the method of delivery is missing the real point.

Basically, armchair quarterbacking after the fact is great and all, but pointing blame anywhere but at the guy who committed the act isn't going to accomplish anything unless someone was actually complicit in his behaviour. Had he walked 6 blocks the other way to a restaurant then people would be mad they didn't shut down the nearest half mile, had he got in a bus they would be mad that the transit system for the city wasn't closed, hindsight is great and all, but the officials acted with the information they had at the time, unless you are saying they wanted the act to continue or were just grossly negligent, they can't take blame for this.

Discussing and pondering the events is probably beneficial for many reasons, such as so we can think about why it happened and how to stop these sorts of events from occuring in the future, but the fact is that as free thinking individuals in an open society, violence will continue to be a part of our lives so long as human beings exist and continue to accept war and violence as a means of solving problems. Wars, legislation, they don't get to the root of the problem, the differences, problems, anger and sickness that promote and cause these events are what I think we should be focussed on, that and the victims, to put a real human face on everyone affected by the tragedy, instead of glorifying the event by doing step by step walkthroughs and showing images of the killer brandishing weapons and airing video of the firghtened victims ducking gunfire on live TV.

Perhaps aside from the initial report, which ought to just state the facts, the perpetrator should get a media black out to some extent, and time should be spent with each family of a victim showing the real effect these insane incident have, the way it hurts individual people and families and communities, and not the "Them" that the idiot is trying to get back at, but rather tons of innocent people.

Finally, my own two cents, safety wasn't guaranteed at birth to you or me or the birds, bears or bees. I try to live a good life, be respectful of my neighbors and do my best to remove myself from dangerous situations. I don't worry about my plane crashing, or someone attacking the nuclear reactor near my home, or terrorists, or drug dealers, I don't vote for, participate in or accept organizations that promote fear to gain power. Life can be snuffed out in a flash, such is life, live for today!

 

[Ruins]

That really isn't necessarily true, where there is a will there is a way. Anyone can obtain easy to follow directions to make bombs from stuff at the local hardware store, a guy with an SUV at the right place, you get the idea, there are a lot of ways that bad things can happen. Granted, the availability of the weapon likely is a significant factor in their choice, but this really isn't about the weapon it is about the motivation of the attacker, today, 2001, whenever, focussing on the method of delivery is missing the real point.

Both the killer's motivations which led him to kill AND the "method of delivery" are both important. And, I think for pretty much every decision, probability and the severity of the consequences needs to be looked at and balanced out. Anything that lowers the chances of something bad happening, like the shooting at VT, is worthwhile, as long as it does not dramatically raise the chances of something worst happening. I would say that strict gun control will have a generally positive effect on this. Looking at other developed countries, such as the UK and Australia, it is definitely an achievable goal with real results on gun-related killings. Of course, the fact that Seung Cho obtained his guns legally, whereas he would have had to commit some kind of crime if he were to make a bomb, is a whole other argument for gun control.

Finally, my own two cents, safety wasn't guaranteed at birth to you or me or the birds, bears or bees. I try to live a good life, be respectful of my neighbors and do my best to remove myself from dangerous situations.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[Aazealh]

Another interesting thing was that a South Korean news paper of some sorts made one of those political cartoons showing what had happened with the little thing of having President Bush saying see! Our gun advances are great!

Well this was before they found out that the person doing the killing was South Korean! Jokes on you guys!

Well actually, in spite of the simplification of the relationship between Bush and the gun manufacturers/NRA and the general insensitivity of the joke, his "point" still stands. The murderer being a South Korean citizen doesn't nullify it, although the humorist was probably very embarrassed.

You know, I still think its funny but anytime a foreigner makes fun of the US and the people are in it, they think that America is comprised of Whites and Blacks. They fail to remember that well, every type of person is here in this crazy place, Koreans, Muslims, Mexicans, hot Euro babes! I just think its funny.

Just curious, but how is this tied to the rest of your post? I don't think the guy in the comic is meant to be black, he's just shadowed as an anynomous criminal is meant to be.

I did chuckle but what's disconcerting is that if I didn't know the things he'd done, I'd honestly just have him pegged as a nerdy introvert hamming it up for the Camera and his friends . . . Hell, I've taken pictures like that with a Hammer . . . Although if I were going to snap and go on a rampage, I'd have done it a while ago.

Yeah, right... We know you've been stacking guns for years and have threatened to shoot people on the Internet, don't think you can fool anyone.

While I agree with this, but isn't a tool easier to regulate than a person?

Well yes, that's pretty much been my point from the beginning.

That really isn't necessarily true, where there is a will there is a way. Anyone can obtain easy to follow directions to make bombs from stuff at the local hardware store, a guy with an SUV at the right place, you get the idea, there are a lot of ways that bad things can happen. Granted, the availability of the weapon likely is a significant factor in their choice, but this really isn't about the weapon it is about the motivation of the attacker, today, 2001, whenever, focussing on the method of delivery is missing the real point.

Well the death toll and the context do make the method of execution a point worthy to be considered, wouldn't you agree? A lot of people are murdered every week in the USA, run over by cars, stabbed, etc. What's making this a bigger deal than what happened at Ruins' university is the death toll, plain and simple. So yeah, the guy could have made a bomb or built a catapult but like many others before him he didn't do that and just got guns. Sure, it's entirely the guy's fault, I don't think anybody disagrees here. However, it seems pretty cheap to me to use this as an argument to refuse to consider ways to reduce the likeliness of such events happening. As someone that isn't directly affected I can tell you my biggest concern is whether such events will become more of a trend or not as time goes by. It's good for you that you don't worry about bad things happening, but if you end up having kids one day I wonder if your reaction would be the same.

Discussing and pondering the events is probably beneficial for many reasons, such as so we can think about why it happened and how to stop these sorts of events from occuring in the future, but the fact is that as free thinking individuals in an open society, violence will continue to be a part of our lives so long as human beings exist and continue to accept war and violence as a means of solving problems. Wars, legislation, they don't get to the root of the problem, the differences, problems, anger and sickness that promote and cause these events are what I think we should be focussed on, that and the victims, to put a real human face on everyone affected by the tragedy, instead of glorifying the event by doing step by step walkthroughs and showing images of the killer brandishing weapons and airing video of the firghtened victims ducking gunfire on live TV.

You're right, but the sad truth is that what worked in Rome long ago still works today. Games and Bread.

EDIT: Apparently no games were found in the killer's possession.

 

[ghadrack]

Well the death toll and the context do make the method of execution a point worthy to be considered, wouldn't you agree? A lot of people are murdered every week in the USA, run over by cars, stabbed, etc. What's making this a bigger deal than what happened at Ruins' university is the death toll, plain and simple. So yeah, the guy could have made a bomb or built a catapult but like many others before him he didn't do that and just got guns. Sure, it's entirely the guy's fault, I don't think anybody disagrees here. However, it seems pretty cheap to me to use this as an argument to refuse to consider ways to reduce the likeliness of such events happening. As someone that isn't directly affected I can tell you my biggest concern is whether such events will become more of a trend or not as time goes by. It's good for you that you don't worry about bad things happening, but if you end up having kids one day I wonder if your reaction would be the same.

I didn't say it isn't worthy of consideration, and I think a person would be a fool to not be able to draw a correlation between the number of guns and their availability and the nuber of deaths related to their use. But realistically, the way that our country is run right now, there is no way that the type of effective legislation necessary to make a meaningful change would ever be passed. The "assualt weapons ban" was a perfect example, that piece of legislation was farcical, it banned guns based on aesthetic differences and didn't solve any real problems, it would take drastic, immediate, total control to make a difference and the enforcement would be nightmarish given the hundred plus million guns floating around the USA right now. Realistically, it just isn't going to happen any time soon unless it becomes in the interest of the majority of the population, and the government, and the officials who fear for their electability all at once.

Again while guns were the method of choice, and I believe you are right that they were the most convenient way to do it, if you look at all the evidence of planning, a knife and a backpack full of pipe bombs could have been just as devastating, he acted out a plan to commit a violent act and the tool or means was secondary. Who knows what might have happened if guns weren't available.

I suspect that the saying things will get worse before they get better is appropriate, at this point for humanity to iron out our differences and reduce the amount of suffering in the world it feels like it will take a global crisis and cause we can all rally behind, forgetting about borders and money and belief systems.

As far as kids, I have determined that for many reasons I am not interested in bringing a child into this world. So far my past few girlfriends haven't had issue with this posture, if one did, that is a deal breaker for me. I am sure this is to the dismay of my mother who would like to see grandkids running around. Unfortunately, acts like those in Virginia have left me with little faith in humanity left, I want to live my life peacefully, try to do the occasional good deed when the opportunity presents itself or I feel motivated and move on to the great beyond. Given the staggering growth of the human population in recent history, I am certain that my decision to ignore the "biological imperative" will not make a difference in the scheme of things. But cowardly as it may seem, I will never face the issue of dealing with protecting a child so all I can speak to is how I feel about my own personal views on public safety.

Anyhow, I feel terrible for the families and friends of those who were wounded and lost their lives, and I hope that stupid people don't vent on the parents and family of the guy that did this, I think they will suffer enough with this as it is, hopefully they can recover enough to live out their lives with minimal suffering.

 

[SaiyajinNoOuji]

Well that portion of my post really didn't have a relation to my original post. It was more of a, while I'm here type thing. You have Muslims in the Eastern Countries making fun of America and wishing harmful things to happen again while there are Muslims in the states that are trying to lead normal lives (Not trying to point them out, they have just been used so many times as of recent). You pretty much have people making fun of themselves in a way.

 

[C]

Hmmm, interesting thoughts by all. Some wrong, some right, some don't don't know. Hell, I could be wrong in my opinion on the matter. I do know however, guns don't kill people, the people pulling the trigger do. I think we should all be given 300+ horsepower cars when we are born, also the complete collection of Berserk manga, and Quake 4-Oblivion-Titan Quest, then there would be no more problems in the world.

- C

ps. ok, just a happy, unrealistic view, but happy none the less

 

[Forest Wraith]

Yeah, right... We know you've been stacking guns for years and have threatened to shoot people on the Internet, don't think you can fool anyone.

On a more serious note, typical American reactions kick in: http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=3053682

 

[SaiyajinNoOuji]

Hmmm, interesting thoughts by all. Some wrong, some right, some don't don't know. Hell, I could be wrong in my opinion on the matter. I do know however, guns don't kill people, the people pulling the trigger do. I think we should all be given 300+ horsepower cars when we are born, also the complete collection of Berserk manga, and Quake 4-Oblivion-Titan Quest, then there would be no more problems in the world.

- C

ps. ok, just a happy, unrealistic view, but happy none the less

Throw in return of the Overfiend and we got a deal!

 

[Aazealh]

Well that portion of my post really didn't have a relation to my original post. It was more of a, while I'm here type thing. You have Muslims in the Eastern Countries making fun of America and wishing harmful things to happen again while there are Muslims in the states that are trying to lead normal lives (Not trying to point them out, they have just been used so many times as of recent). You pretty much have people making fun of themselves in a way.

Oh, well yeah, and it's the same in a lot of cases I think, not just with the USA. It's typical ignorance mixed with xenophobia, but anyway you know, extremists usually do more harm to their own non-crazy people than to others. They're like hooligans, all they need is an excuse to do their thing.

On a more serious note, typical American reactions kick in: http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=3053682

His father, Michael Karson, told the Camera newspaper that the comments may have been misinterpreted and questioned whether his son's free speech rights had been violated.

You guys and your amendments.

 

[Walter]

In that same article:

At Oregon's Lewis & Clark College, another student was detained by campus police Wednesday shortly before a vigil for the Virginia Tech victims when he was spotted wearing an ammunition belt. Portland police later determined that it was "a fashion accessory" made of spent ammunition, and said the man did not have a weapon. The belt was confiscated.

 

[NightCrawler]

Since the US doesnt have any "culture", it had to invent its own, FEAR.
Here's another chapter for the history book

 

[jepn30]

Tell me about it . . .

This Shit is more Sickening then anything 4-chan could dream up: http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Virginia_Tech_massacre. If only it were all a joke . . .

I find that image offensive, insulting, and insensitive. And I have a concealed handgun license.

 

[Aazealh]

Well, I just thought this would bring a little humor in the topic considering the earlier talk about the difference the weapons used can make during an assault.

http://cbs2chicago.com/local/local_story_110105338.html?ic

 

[jepn30]

Best part is the students statement that she carried the flail because she needed protection.