What Are You Playing?

[Walter]

I’m about 20 hours into Grandia, and I just can’t take it anymore. It’s quite literally put me to sleep on more than one occasion. The game is very well made (I love the battle system and colorful graphics), but the story isn’t compelling to me at all. I think it’s time to move on.

Not too surprising. It is a very traditional J-RPG that felt like it annoyingly adhered to the genre tropes (even at the time in the late '90s). So I'd be surprised if it actually held up well over time.

On my side of things, my son and I just finished Breath of the Wild (third time for me, first REAL time for him). He immediately wanted to start again with a new character, all on his own. I'll also put in a plug for this book, which I got him for Christmas: https://www.amazon.com/Legend-Zelda-Breath-Wild-Creating-Champion/dp/1506710107/ It has everything you could want to know about the game's design. It's been our bedtime story book for the past 3 months.

 

[Keratos]

I just finished Ending [E] of NieR: Automata.
What an amazing game.

At the end, I decided to help someone so I lost my save file. But it doesn't bother me because I thought that the people that helped me at the end of [E] had also lost their save files to help me, so it made sense for me to do the same for someone else. (And I also got a cool new title screen, so that's neat)

I'll definately play this game again until I get all the endings and trophies.

 

[Rhombaad]

The story's strong points are its character chemistry and worldbuilding. It gets progressively larger and more "grandiose" in scope, and you really get to see all the epic stuff the game teases you with in the beginning. Otherwise, it's heavily grounded in common fantasy-adventure tropes. I'm curious how far you've managed to get in twenty hours. For me it took a long time to get the snowball rolling as I liked to explore (often unnecessarily) and exhaust all the NPC dialogue.

I can see why people like the game, for sure. It just hasn't snagged me yet (and after 20 hours, I expect to be snagged).

I'm in the middle of the Misty Forest. I, too, like to explore and exhaust all the NPC dialogue.

Not too surprising. It is a very traditional J-RPG that felt like it annoyingly adhered to the genre tropes (even at the time in the late '90s). So I'd be surprised if it actually held up well over time.

I can't tell if I'm becoming burned out on traditional JRPGs, or if it was just this one in particular. I guess we'll find out when I get to the next one on my list.

On my side of things, my son and I just finished Breath of the Wild (third time for me, first REAL time for him). He immediately wanted to start again with a new character, all on his own. I'll also put in a plug for this book, which I got him for Christmas: https://www.amazon.com/Legend-Zelda-Breath-Wild-Creating-Champion/dp/1506710107/ It has everything you could want to know about the game's design. It's been our bedtime story book for the past 3 months.

That's awesome!

 

[Aazealh]

I can't tell if I'm becoming burned out on traditional JRPGs

There's no coming back once that happens. I will never go through random battles again. Well, except maybe in the FF7 remake.

 

[Griffith]

I'll also put in a plug for this book, which I got him for Christmas: https://www.amazon.com/Legend-Zelda-Breath-Wild-Creating-Champion/dp/1506710107/ It has everything you could want to know about the game's design. It's been our bedtime story book for the past 3 months.

That's really cool, especially to see why/how Fujibayashi hit it out of the (theme) park. I think part of it is he kind of had his own old school, starting with the Oracle games, to new school Zelda evolution, plus the freedom to experiment on handhelds, which gave him a deeper understanding of what works and doesn't, what makes those games great, and how you can change them without losing that feeling or getting stale. It's like he spent 15 years practicing to make that game and it shows.

I just finished Ending [E] of NieR: Automata.
What an amazing game.

At the end, I decided to help someone so I lost my save file. But it doesn't bother me because I thought that the people that helped me at the end of [E] had also lost their save files to help me, so it made sense for me to do the same for someone else. (And I also got a cool new title screen, so that's neat)

WTF? I hear great plaudits for this game, but then details that sound like a bunch meta gimmickry that make me think I won't like it. Explain to me why this game is so great.

I, too, like to explore and exhaust all the NPC dialogue.

I think this is what burned me out on MOST RPGs these days; there's too many NPCs to talk to, and therefore their dialogue is less essential than ever. Now it's coming around though where that's so true you know you can skip all but the most essential interactions. The Witcher 3 actually does a good job stopping you from engaging in useless conversation by simply not letting you interface with most random NPCs.

There's no coming back once that happens. I will never go through random battles again. Well, except maybe in the FF7 remake.

You won't anyway because, at least in the demo, they're all scripted out.

I'm guessing this will be different by the time you reach the world map in part 2 at least, which I'm guessing will be a fully rendered open world, and they'll have the monsters generate off screen before approaching or something. At least I hope so. This Midgar simulator sounds so huge and ambitious how do you pull off the dramatic change in scale from the original game that suddenly makes it seem small. I guess we'll see.

 

[Walter]

This Midgar simulator sounds so huge and ambitious how do you pull off the dramatic change in scale from the original game that suddenly makes it seem small. I guess we'll see

Simple: no world map

 

[Lawliet]

There's no coming back once that happens. I will never go through random battles again. Well, except maybe in the FF7 remake.

I second that. Removing random battles was one of the best improvements to the series, imo. God I hated those.

WTF? I hear great plaudits for this game, but then details that sound like a bunch meta gimmickry that make me think I won't like it. Explain to me why this game is so great.

To be honest, I have very mixed feelings about this game. It's been described as profound, and it is that once you really get into it, but I really hated the way in which it was delivered. 3 campaigns, with 1 and 2 mostly identical (same quests and side-quests and so on) except you play campaign 2 with a far inferior character (the worst character I've ever played in a game imo). I have some other issues with it too.
That being said, you do get a fantastic action game with one of the best soundtracks out there and a deep story. The save file thing that Keratos mentioned was a genuinely good execution of meta gimmickry (would make Hideo Kojima blush ).
Can't say much without spoiling the game, but here's my 2 cents about it.

 

[Keratos]

WTF? I hear great plaudits for this game, but then details that sound like a bunch meta gimmickry that make me think I won't like it. Explain to me why this game is so great.

Well, the game definitely isn't for everyone, and I thought it was good but not great at my first playthrough (Ending [A]).
But after I picked it up again and played the rest until I got Ending [E], I noticed a lot of things I didn't the first time (There was a large time gap between me finishing the first ending and picking it up again).

• The Soundtrack is amazing, which is something I noticed later because when I played it the first time I didn't care for soundtracks in general.
• The Combat is very quick and you can fight with many different ways and many different weapons so it never got boring for me.
• The Characters at first felt "meh" but it's one of those games where it really takes a while to understand them and feel for them. And I definitely did after the first half of the game.
• The Story was definitely intriguing, I wasn't too interesting at first, but after slowly finding out stuff, I really was.
• A great thing about this game is that unlike some other RPGs, you really don't need to grind to be able to fight bosses and such, it's very well paced so you can basically play the story mode and do no free roam at all. (Which I don't recommend personally because this game's world is honestly beautiful)

Of course it has its flaws, I never said it was a flawless game. The Side-Quests are pretty boring (Although as I said before, you don't really need to do them). And a mission towards the very end was very repetitive. Although, to be honest, the Ending after it was great, so it didn't bother me much.

I could have said more about the game, but I think I have already wrote too much.

Now, as you have probably noticed, I said many times that everything was "meh" at first, but then it got better. And that's something I also see in other people's reviews. It's definitely a game that takes time to grow on you (If it does) and for that reason it's not for everyone.

If you play it, and you don't enjoy the first playthrough much, you reach a point where you'll either continue the game and hope that you'll love it by the end, or give up on it.

So I don't know if I can recommend it to you or not, I just finished it and it really depends if you have the patience to wait until things "get good".

(Sorry if my reply didn't make much sense, I'm not good enough at english to explain something like that easily )

 

[Lawliet]

^ That sums it up nicely. Though for me, the game started out fantastic. And then campaign 2 kicked in .

A friend of mine describes the combat as "like being in an anime". He's not far off the mark. You could play the game just for that superb fighting system.

 

[Keratos]

^ That sums it up nicely. Though for me, the game started out fantastic. And then campaign 2 kicked in .

I totally get why, as you said before, the second playthorought is basically the same as the first but with a different (and worse) character.

At least it ended faster and you also had all your weapons and items from the first, so it wasn't much of a bother, I finished it in a few hours.

After that, the third playthrough was when I started to love this game.

 

[Griffith]

Wow, of all things I did not expect my throwaway Nier prompt to generate so much response. I guess that game really does engender some passionate feelings, but it also sounds like it takes a lot of investment to get there: first playthrough to see if you like it, identical campaigns, ending E? ...I will continue to keep an eye on it until the time is right.

Simple: no world map

Well, yeah, in a perfect world, unlike the original, the player interface would never change, whether you're running around Midgar, a battle, out in the world, or on the Highwind (that was the name of the airship, right? It's been a while =). But how big and detailed are they going to make it? Will it essentially be like a big, unlockable open world? I'd be disappointed if it wasn't something like that, but how big they can realistically make it compared to their purported 80 hour Midgar is a fair question (maybe another reason to do it in parts until you get the airship later, which could essentially be fast travel).

I guess I'd have a better idea what to expect if I still played these games; was FFXV basically a big giant world to roam like the above description that they could pretty easily adapt to FFVII?


BTW, with The Last of Us 2 only a couple months away now...

The argument we're having is whether the spirit of humanity is resilient enough to sustain a societal collapse and emerge similar to our own.

...we might actually settle this IRL!

 

[Walter]

But how big and detailed are they going to make it? Will it essentially be like a big, unlockable open world? I'd be disappointed if it wasn't something like that, but how big they can realistically make it compared to their purported 80 hour Midgar is a fair question (maybe another reason to do it in parts until you get the airship later, which could essentially be fast travel).

I expect it to be an accelerated, linear sequence of events/locales (Midgar > Impaled Snake > Nibelheim). And maybe later you can return to previous locations via the Highwind in a menu. But as you said, an overworld map that miniaturizes locations as you travel doesn't really need to exist anymore. And while I recognize the truth behind that sentiment, it's yet another straw breaking that makes me wonder why I even bother with this thing exists at all. Yet I will!

 

[Aazealh]

I'm guessing this will be different by the time you reach the world map in part 2 at least, which I'm guessing will be a fully rendered open world, and they'll have the monsters generate off screen before approaching or something. At least I hope so.

I'd like it to be like FFXII, I enjoyed that one.

 

[Griffith]

I expect it to be an accelerated, linear sequence of events/locales (Midgar > Impaled Snake > Nibelheim). And maybe later you can return to previous locations via the Highwind in a menu.

I was afraid that's what you meant, and it would definitely fit with how they're handling Midgar in the first game, but Midgar was always unique and it's not as simple as that because some of those world map areas were like outdoor locations themselves, but I guess that could all be rendered as your linear pathway to the next town. Somehow seems smaller though, don't it?

But as you said, an overworld map that miniaturizes locations as you travel doesn't really need to exist anymore. And while I recognize the truth behind that sentiment, it's yet another straw breaking that makes me wonder why I even bother with this thing exists at all. Yet I will!

I think it would be a missed opportunity not to translate it to an open world, not that it's novel these days, but all the more reason to do it as a modernization. In any case, it's not surprising everyone is giving it a look, by sheer proposed scale this project is a significant gaming milestone whether one is into FF7 or not, and with quotes from developers saying they're ready to work on it the rest of their careers etc... I wonder if the length and multiple parts are a bug and potential boondoggle as I see it, or a feature as Square-Enix may. Afterall, they're finally going to make Final Fantasy VII into a separate, viable franchise unto itself. Final Fantasy VII-7: Seventh Heaven!

I'd like it to be like FFXII, I enjoyed that one.

No idea what that means.

To put my ignorance in perspective I haven't played one of these games since PS1!

 

[Walter]

No idea what that means.

You could explore the in-between spaces of locations, not unlike a modern-day open world.

To put my ignorance in perspective I haven't played one of these games since PS1!

You haven't missed anything, by my recollection.

 

[Griffith]

You could explore the in-between spaces of locations, not unlike a modern-day open world.

Ah, well that sounds adequate.

You haven't missed anything, by my recollection.

The only one after that which seems to rate on any "all-time" scale is FFX.

 

[Aazealh]

You could explore the in-between spaces of locations, not unlike a modern-day open world.

Yeah, was influenced by their MMO I think. Either way I liked the result. Felt much more modern.

The only one after that which seems to rate on any "all-time" scale is FFX.

FFX sucks, I didn't even finish it.

 

[Griffith]

Yeah, was influenced by their MMO I think. Either way I liked the result. Felt much more modern.

I do hope they fully realize the world of FF7 in a modern open-world design, otherwise it'll be kind of a cheat and a letdown if the point was to recreate FF7 by cutting edge standards. I don't think having locations equivalent to zones or stages, kind of like the new God of War, will cut it. But we'll see, there's a lot of middle ground and the case could be made there's no compelling reason to render the world of FF7 like that anyway (if it's basically going to be a big empty world like the original map, only made to scale, there's no point).

FFX sucks, I didn't even finish it.

That's been my willfully ignorant opinion! All I know about it is the characters look ridiculous and Walter told me back in the day that it was indeed ridiculous but had a diabolically compelling hook to kind of forces you to pursue it for a while. I don't know if that's held up with time, though.

My favorite FF games will probably always be VI through IX, including Tactics, with FF8 being my equivalent to Walter's underwhelmed experience with FF7 (great opening and ending cinematics though =), and I'd probably like FF9 more if your main dude wasn't a literally egg-headed androgynous monkey or something in a vest, which is all that's memorable about him.

 

[Lawliet]

So I got Nioh 2 and I'm surprisingly enjoying it, despite it basically being the same diarrhea as the first game with some changes here and there. Or maybe I just haven't played anything new for a while that even Nioh 2 would be exciting.

I like the new Yokai-shifting/counter/spirit-core system so far. Adds more to the combat, which is otherwise just copy-pasted from the original.

I hate (with a passion) the stamina system, when you get staggered specifically. Wish they'd have overhauled that one.

Just my thoughts so far. Beat the first two bosses without going through too much BS. We'll see how this game goes...

 

[Walter]

RE3 demo is up on Steam: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1173690/Resident_Evil_3_Raccoon_City_Demo/

 

[Griffith]

RE3 demo is up on Steam: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1173690/Resident_Evil_3_Raccoon_City_Demo/

Been on it, and Doom Eternal also comes out tonight, as I see you're aware of, same time that my city's quarantine goes into effect (the city officials clearly looking for a way to take a week off amid a crisis to play DOOM =). I need to wrap up Witcher 3 too, I've been dragging it out too long on all the side-quests recommended to me and now I'm outta time!

 

[Rhombaad]

I finished Resident Evil 2 this morning. Man, what a great game. I wish it was longer, but it’s quality from top to bottom, so I can’t complain too much.

Next up: Panzer Dragoon Saga!

 

[Walter]

Next up: Panzer Dragoon Saga!

Okay how the HELL are you able to play that one, you maniac?

 

[Rhombaad]

Okay how the HELL are you able to play that one, you maniac?

I don’t know yet.

In all honesty, probably emulation, since the only other option would be to track down a tube television, Sega Saturn and a used copy of PDS. Not only do I not have hundreds of dollars to spare, but due to the spread of COVID-19, I’m not leaving my apartment (unless I need groceries).

I wish they would put it on a modern system, or release some sort of Sega Saturn classic with it and the other Panzer Dragoon games (I had to emulate them, too). I know remakes of Panzer Dragoon and Panzer Dragoon Zwei are coming, but that’s not the same as playing the originals.

Unfortunately, Sega claims they’ve lost the source code for Saga, so we may never see an official rerelease of the original.

 

[Walter]

I wish they would put it on a modern system, or release some sort of Sega Saturn classic with it and the other Panzer Dragoon games (I had to emulate them, too). I know remakes of Panzer Dragoon and Panzer Dragoon Zwei are coming, but that’s not the same as playing the originals.

Unfortunately, Sega claims they’ve lost the source code for Saga, so we may never see an official rerelease of the original.

Yep, what's frustrating is I owned a Saturn back then. I even really liked Zwei. But when I saw Panzer Dragoon Saga on store shelves at the time, thinking: "Eh, I'll play it one day."

Little did I know...