What would Mozgus have thought of Griffith?

:mozgus: Greetings, this speculation popped in my mind so I wondered what you Berserkos think would happen had Mozgus travelled to Falconia. Would he view Griffith as the falcon of light? :griffnotevil: or a heretic? :femto:

It's interesting how Mozgus and Griffith contrast, they both rule land in the name of religion but contratst in their methods. Mozgus envokes fear, Griffith envokes compassion.
 
NorthernHobbit said:
:mozgus: Greetings, this speculation popped in my mind so I wondered what you Berserkos think would happen had Mozgus travelled to Falconia. Would he view Griffith as the falcon of light? :griffnotevil: or a heretic? :femto:

I don't think Mozgus would have any reason to doubt Griffith - and considering his immense zeal for the faith - he'd probably be as enamored with him as the Holy Father is.

It's interesting how Mozgus and Griffith contrast, they both rule land in the name of religion but contratst in their methods. Mozgus envokes fear, Griffith envokes compassion.

As far as I remember Mozgus wasn't a lord, but rather a renowned inquisitor: an important tool of the Church. Quite different from the authority over the lay peoples/aristocrats, as well as the very magisterium that Mozgus once yielded to, that Griffith now possesses.
 

Walter

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He would be the most "shut up and take my money dot jay pee gee" of devotees.

In all seriousness, Mozgus was never much of a critical thinker, and Griffith gave humans no room for doubt of his legitimacy. Charlotte's devotion brings him the throne, and the Pontiff's devotion allows him to step neatly into the shoes of their hollow idol.
 
I don't think he'd be so quick to fall in line with Griffith. First, because it would be more narratively interesting for him to be another actor that wouldn't side with Guts exactly, but would take a stand against Griffith.

More importantly though, Mozgus is completely, utterly devoted to God and not even a king is above God, so if he were to offer any loyalty to Griffith, it would only be because politics expects it of him and the current Pontiff endorses him. This would last until Mozgus discovers that Griffith has his own personal army of monster men and his own witch, then the inquisitor in him would come out. It certainly doesn't help that if Mozgus had survived, he'd have witnessed Griffith's rebirth and with it, him flying off on the back of a black-winged demon.

I can imagine him re-emerging at Vritannis, following the Pontiff until the final battle with Ganishka, questioning everything that happens at that point and eventually leaving with Rickert.

Of course, all this assumes that Griffith doesn't spare any time to try and bring him into the fold, which might work, or might be futile against Mozgus' indomitable will.
 

Aazealh

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Shokew V said:
I don't think he'd be so quick to fall in line with Griffith. First, because it would be more narratively interesting for him to be another actor that wouldn't side with Guts exactly, but would take a stand against Griffith.

More narratively interesting? I mean there's a reason this is a purely hypothetical scenario, and that's because it's not narratively interesting to begin with.
Basically, it doesn't matter what Mozgus would have thought. He was a cog in a complex machine during the Conviction arc, but beyond that his existence was inconsequential.
Putting that aside, Walter got it right. Mozgus was a zealot and he would have no doubt lapped up what Griffith is offering. There isn't any ground to argue that he would have taken a stand against Griffith (not that he would have been able to anyway).

Shokew V said:
More importantly though, Mozgus is completely, utterly devoted to God and not even a king is above God, so if he were to offer any loyalty to Griffith, it would only be because politics expects it of him and the current Pontiff endorses him. This would last until Mozgus discovers that Griffith has his own personal army of monster men and his own witch, then the inquisitor in him would come out. It certainly doesn't help that if Mozgus had survived, he'd have witnessed Griffith's rebirth and with it, him flying off on the back of a black-winged demon.

I can imagine him re-emerging at Vritannis, following the Pontiff until the final battle with Ganishka, questioning everything that happens at that point and eventually leaving with Rickert.

Of course, all this assumes that Griffith doesn't spare any time to try and bring him into the fold, which might work, or might be futile against Mozgus' indomitable will.

Mozgus was a small man and a hypocrite whose life revolved around hurting powerless people. You seem to wildly overestimate pretty much everything about him: his integrity, courage, intelligence, strength of will, etc. The idea that he could have teamed up with Rickert, the Bakiraka and Daiba is absurd.
 
He would definitely follow Griffith, he would fall into "blind white sheep" category from prophecy, however I'm doubtful if Griffith would accept someone like that in his ranks, and I'm not saying Griffith is a lovely being, he is definitely not, but he is also great machiavellian and creating illusion of just ruler who will create utopia on Earth, to put this in simple words: there's no more need for people like Mozgus in Griffith's Falconia, at least with original Mozgus character traits like fanaticism turned against normal people. With reincarnation of Griffith, Holy See doctrine becomes complete in his character, he is their messiah, there is no more need for normal religion. If Pontiff says things like he said after apostles transformation on human crowd eyes then I'm pretty sure it's no longer religion of the likes of Mozgus approach, it's adjusted to transformation that came with Griffith ( Femto )
 

Walter

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He would definitely follow Griffith, he would fall into "blind white sheep" category from prophecy, however I'm doubtful if Griffith would accept someone like that in his ranks, and I'm not saying Griffith is a lovely being, he is definitely not, but he is also great machiavellian and creating illusion of just ruler who will create utopia on Earth, to put this in simple words: there's no more need for people like Mozgus in Griffith's Falconia, at least with original Mozgus character traits like fanaticism turned against normal people. With reincarnation of Griffith, Holy See doctrine becomes complete in his character, he is their messiah, there is no more need for normal religion. If Pontiff says things like he said after apostles transformation on human crowd eyes then I'm pretty sure it's no longer religion of the likes of Mozgus approach, it's adjusted to transformation that came with Griffith ( Femto )
Yep that's true. His brand of religious justice is outmoded in Falconia. He wouldn't exactly fit in. But of course, he was never meant to.
 
Because Mozgus was likely a pseudo-apostle just like his men (tho a powerful one), I don't see a reason why he'd reject Griffith after seeing the sight that Griffith makes to his followers in Falconia.
 

Walter

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Because Mozgus was likely a pseudo-apostle just like his men (tho a powerful one), I don't see a reason why he'd reject Griffith after seeing the sight that Griffith makes to his followers in Falconia.

Mozgus wasn't a pseudo until during the events of the Incarnation Ceremony though. And while I could be wrong, I believe the question was about what Mozgus the man himself would do.
 
More narratively interesting? I mean there's a reason this is a purely hypothetical scenario, and that's because it's not narratively interesting to begin with.
Basically, it doesn't matter what Mozgus would have thought. He was a cog in a complex machine during the Conviction arc, but beyond that his existence was inconsequential.
Putting that aside, Walter got it right. Mozgus was a zealot and he would have no doubt lapped up what Griffith is offering. There isn't any ground to argue that he would have taken a stand against Griffith (not that he would have been able to anyway).



Mozgus was a small man and a hypocrite whose life revolved around hurting powerless people. You seem to wildly overestimate pretty much everything about him: his integrity, courage, intelligence, strength of will, etc. The idea that he could have teamed up with Rickert, the Bakiraka and Daiba is absurd.

It's not that uninteresting, in fact, I think a change in Mozgus character due to Griffiths arrival would be interesting. Also, just because a character dies in the narrative doesn't mean that there is nothing the writer could do with him, as a writer myself, creativity and imagination can't be limited that way aren't that straightforward. As, someone dies therefore they would have been useless beyond this point. He chose to kill off Mozgus not because Mozgus surviving isn't interesting, it just fit the idea he had for the story in that chapter, to speculate something interesting happening as a result of him surviving isn't too outlandish, that's just my opinion. I hope I'm not coming off argumentative in a negative way, rather I'm just trying to state a different way to view the situation.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
I hope I'm not coming off argumentative in a negative way, rather I'm just trying to state a different way to view the situation.

Reviving a six months old thread to argue about some point taken out of its context comes off precisely as "argumentative in a negative way".
 
Reviving a six months old thread to argue about some point taken out of its context comes off precisely as "argumentative in a negative way".
Well, my bad. I guess its because I'm new to the site and I have been enjoying the different discussions. Without paying attention to the age of the threads I've been commenting. My bad, I enjoy reading your stuff.
 
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