Author Topic: The Thread of Zelda  (Read 59485 times)

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Offline Saephon

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Re: The Thread of Zelda
« Reply #125 on: February 24, 2010, 10:43:02 PM »
You know, I never thought of OoT's ending that way. To be completely honest, as I got older I began to resent it a bit for its simplicity. For several years now I've been of the opinion that Link got a raw deal: Missing out on 7 years of his life, being forced to grow up and deal with grown up situations way too quickly, and instead of getting to stick around to help rebuild this world he saved, he's forced to return to being a child and to try to live a normal life. I'm curious what other people think about that situation. On the one hand, it's like Link gets a second chance to experience those 7 years; the flipside is that maybe he didn't want to/didn't feel he could? A little case of Frodo being unable to be at peace when he returns to the Shire, you know?  :schnoz:

But then none of that stuff ever entered my mind until maybe eight years after first playing OoT, and when I first beat the game it felt awesome and just right. Maybe sometimes it's nice to have an ending where the characters can be happy. It's starting to become cliche to expect bittersweet conclusions these days. That's why I refrain from discussing how Berserk's going to end; I think it's disappointing that most people are expecting it to end tragically.




While you guys were busy debating I beat Zelda II's first 3 castles before sleeping yesterday. :badbone: Too bad my GBA cartridge doesn't keep saves anymore. :troll:

I have a confession to make. I.....I never finished Zelda II.  :judo:
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: The Thread of Zelda
« Reply #126 on: February 24, 2010, 11:04:45 PM »
For several years now I've been of the opinion that Link got a raw deal: Missing out on 7 years of his life, being forced to grow up and deal with grown up situations way too quickly, and instead of getting to stick around to help rebuild this world he saved, he's forced to return to being a child and to try to live a normal life. I'm curious what other people think about that situation. On the one hand, it's like Link gets a second chance to experience those 7 years; the flipside is that maybe he didn't want to/didn't feel he could?

I always felt sad about it. All of what he's achieved will remain unknown. From a hero he returns to a simple kid. It's a great burden to carry, a form of self-sacrifice for the greater good. I think it's a great ending, like Walter & Griffith said. I loved it then, and I love it now. One of the best video game endings ever, in fact. Few stand up to it.

That's why I refrain from discussing how Berserk's going to end; I think it's disappointing that most people are expecting it to end tragically.

Hahaha don't worry, most people are constantly wrong about what they expect to see in Berserk. :slan:

I have a confession to make. I.....I never finished Zelda II.

It's Ok man. You just don't have what it takes. :zodd:

Offline Griffith

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Re: The Thread of Zelda
« Reply #127 on: March 11, 2010, 04:12:24 AM »
Some follow up on the Zelda front. Finished my replay of Twilight Princess, and kind of came away feeling the same way I did the first time. It's a helluva lot of fun and very impressive in the moment, if a bit of a chore in places, but for all it's awesome touches and advancements, it feels old hat. Like most modern Zelda titles, it's just way too easy, I didn't get killed once, and the only places I was even significantly damaged were in Snowpeak Ruins and the Cave of Ordeals, and even then I didn't need a fairy. It's really too bad, because the battle system was the most advanced yet, but there was never any excitement behind it, and it was still missing other advancements like being able to pick up enemy weapons ala Wind Waker. Also, I just didn't like what they actually did do to differentiate it from the others, including the story, particularly the climax, where it's basically confirmed that Link, Zelda, and Ganon are supporting character's in The Legend of Midna. Link is basically her sidekick in what must be the most elaborate side story of all time. Anyway, I'll stick with Ocarina of Time for my definitive Zelda title.

Offline IncantatioN

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Re: The Thread of Zelda
« Reply #128 on: February 25, 2011, 01:31:08 AM »
« Last Edit: February 25, 2011, 02:08:24 PM by IncantatioN »
At the end of time, a moment will come when just one man remains. Then the moment will pass. Man will be gone. There will be nothing to show that we were ever here... but stardust.

Offline Truder

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Re: The Thread of Zelda
« Reply #129 on: February 26, 2011, 12:21:52 AM »
@ Zelda Picture

 
THAT IS SO AWESOME INCANTATION!

although, who are the top three figures?
2 of them look like Farore and Nayru (the incarnations) but the third doesnt look like it's Din.(maybe)

and at the very bottom, the lady with the baby, is that supposed to be Link's mom?

Offline Aphasia

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Re: The Thread of Zelda
« Reply #130 on: February 26, 2011, 02:00:02 AM »
The three at the top are supposed to be the three goddesses, I believe.  And I think you're correct about that being link's mom.

As awesome as that is, I don't see Orca from Windwaker.  It is inferior.

JK

I love the sheer number of references in there. :guts Even some skyward sword! It's future proof!

Offline Ramen4ever

Re: The Thread of Zelda
« Reply #131 on: February 26, 2011, 02:52:04 AM »
I don't see any of the Gerudo Chicks. Or maybe I'm just blind. Would be nice to have a Darknut or Iron Knuckle in there but obviously General Onox is good enough.
..omfg  :schnoz: I just realized that's Tingle by the Zora's.

Offline Truder

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Re: The Thread of Zelda
« Reply #132 on: February 26, 2011, 02:55:20 AM »

well the the first 2 silhouettes match the incarnations, but the 3rd is a bit too simple to be Din.



I love that they added so many little things to the picture like that jerk Kokiri who blocked the way to the deku tree in OOT, and the addition of the couple who get married in majoras mask... perfect! :guts:

Offline Griffith

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Re: The Thread of Zelda
« Reply #133 on: February 26, 2011, 08:29:33 AM »
Aaz sent me that Zelda painting the other day, and yeah, its pretty much the best thing ever; from the style to the spacing to the thematic color spectrum, you could repaint the Sistine Chapel's ceiling with this. :ganishka:

The only technical flaw that jumped out at me so far is that the Hero's Spirit/Shade is supposed to be missing his right eye, same for his wolf form, though I assume that's an amalgamation representing his and Link's wolf, since they're kindred incarnations anyway (similar for MM's Great Fairy doubling for OoT's). Zelda's dress color is also an odd choice.

although, who are the top three figures?
2 of them look like Farore and Nayru (the incarnations) but the third doesnt look like it's Din.(maybe)

Sure, it's Farore, Nayru, and someone else. =)

(or obviously Din by wardrobe and process of elimination)

As awesome as that is, I don't see Orca from Windwaker.  It is inferior.

That's less an omission than the Postman or Quill, which is to say not. You should be complaining they don't reference Midna's iconic cursed form (if they're going to include the King's magic ventriloquism boat =), but in general I don't have a problem with the characters included/excluded, it's a pretty consistent story NPC criteria... except, perhaps the biggest omission by far: Alfon, if anyone knows who that is? :daiba:

I don't see any of the Gerudo Chicks. Or maybe I'm just blind.

Nabooru is there in traditional Gerudo garb among the other sages, and technically Koume and Kotake qualify near the bottom, though I'm sure they're not what you had in mind.

Would be nice to have a Darknut or Iron Knuckle in there

Or Samson, or Boba Fett, or a chu, or maybe not some random enemy that would shatter the painfully constructed motif for the sake of a big dumb suit of armor. Just sayin'. :iva:

If anything, I might have had the classic triforce at the top hovering above the Goddesses, but there's reasons not to do that as well.

Offline Aphasia

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Re: The Thread of Zelda
« Reply #134 on: March 02, 2011, 07:10:12 PM »
New skyward sword trailer shown at GDC.  I am excited.  I need new Zelda.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2h93tP2U0c&feature=watch_response

Offline Saephon

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Re: The Thread of Zelda
« Reply #135 on: March 02, 2011, 07:41:51 PM »
Just watched it. Shortly after I realized something that will make me unable to post opinions on an internet forum from now on:  

I think I'm tired of Zelda.


I still hold several memories of playing the games deep in my heart, but lately I'm just tired of the formula. The gameplay will be exactly how it's been, the "find item A after beating mini-boss B, so you can use item A on boss C" pattern...And it's not like Nintendo can CHANGE those things. They're perfect, it's a winning formula. It's just...all that leaves you to impress me with are character development, art style, and story. And while Zelda games are usually beautiful, they've never really been known to raise the bar when it comes to characters and plot. I think I've just grown past being able to enjoy them without analyzing what I wish they had.  :sad: I mean, this is a freakin' Berserk message board. How can people expect me to watch my silent, lap-dog protagonist fight for a few dozen people who have no personality, in order to save a princess who we all know won't fall in love with him?

 HEY GUYS I JUST PLAYED SKYWARD SWORD. HERE'S MY REVIEW:

The dungeons were great. There were about 8 in total; unlocking the doors and finding the maps and compasses were a blast! Each boss had me use some item or mechanic I had learned just a few minutes ago! It was really intuitive.
My favorite part was at the end, after I'd gathered all the medallions and got to the final boss's castle. Man, and he had FOUR PHASES this time. I'm used to three, but HOLY SHIT Nintendo. And then after I beat him? When that girl who looked like Zelda ended up BEING ZELDA?! And she thanked me for my heroism, and I went back to my village? Game of the Year, 2011. Calling it right now.  :troll:



I think I'm getting too old. Get off my lawn.
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: The Thread of Zelda
« Reply #136 on: March 02, 2011, 08:11:46 PM »
Just watched it. Shortly after I realized something that will make me unable to post opinions on an internet forum from now on:  

I think I'm tired of Zelda.

I was telling Walter just that not too long ago actually. It saddens me in a way because I'm really (really) fond of the early games in the series, but the lack of renewal is taking its toll. With each iteration I become less interested. And unlike you I think Nintendo could do something about it. They could change pretty much everything and make it better. Anyway, beyond the tired formula I think there's a simple lack of ambition in these newer titles compared to the classic ones that we can all feel even through the trailers.

Offline Walter

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Re: The Thread of Zelda
« Reply #137 on: March 02, 2011, 08:19:10 PM »
I don't think we're alone in wanting Nintendo to rethink the franchise. But I think from their perspective, a big shift wouldn't necessarily pay as big of dividends than simply subscribing to the previous, successful formulae of Zelda games.

Anyone who's a Zelda fan should really go back and play the older games of the series. Play through all of Zelda 1, and think of that game in terms of what was out at the time. It was visionary. It did things that were completely off the wall, and really, I don't see in any games these days. You can PAY OFF A MOBLIN WITH MEAT, okay? That's just awesome. And it must be A SECRET TO EVERYBODY what happened to innovation in Zelda games.

But indeed, the last decade of Zelda games haven't made me swoon. Wind Waker had a few great moments. Twilight Princess, well... it was pretty much a big disappointment for me. The DS games ... let's just forget they exist.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Aphasia

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Re: The Thread of Zelda
« Reply #138 on: March 02, 2011, 08:26:35 PM »
Don't be so positive! You'll only get your hopes up. :troll:

I can sympathize with you a little bit.  I admittedly play new Zelda games for the gameplay, which is almost always fun.  There's also a distinct lack of challenge recently that makes everything a bit dull.  Zelda games haven't been hard for the longest time.  I used to love beating a boss because it was such an accomplishment, but Saephon's summary isn't too far off the mark.  The stories have never been that bad (they never really got the chance to be bad because of their simplicity.)

It's not really the story that keeps me from enjoying it either.  I can't really put my finger on it.  But I sure wouldn't mind if Nintendo decided to go balls up and do something totally nuts to refresh the series next time around.  Will they? Who knows, people will keep on buying this either way.  I will too, so...I'm not really complaining.

It's like I want my little billy to make A's but he only cares enough to make a B+. :puck:

On a positive note, I am excited about the music in this one.  It's supposedly a full Orchestra now, inspired by the Mario Galaxy tunes.

Offline Eluvei

Re: The Thread of Zelda
« Reply #139 on: March 02, 2011, 08:52:32 PM »
The trailer made me want to ignore this game completely and play Link's Awakening again.

OHHHHH YEAH!!!

Offline Griffith

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Re: The Thread of Zelda
« Reply #140 on: March 02, 2011, 08:58:03 PM »
Yeah, I can't say it made me excited at all, it looks like Ocarina of Time again (literally, even the graphics :troll:). It's been said before, but this series basically got stuck on Ocarina of Time, which is the ultimate to me; though, I can only crawl so many 3D dungeons with the same "classic" puzzles in them. Look at the difference and innovation in each of the first five titles in the series. It's amazing, unprecedented, each one is practically unique unto itself. Since then? Mostly variations and combinations of those first five, with a minor gimmick thrown in. Windwaker tried to be original, but people were lukewarm on its aesthetics. Oh well.

Offline Saephon

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Re: The Thread of Zelda
« Reply #141 on: March 02, 2011, 09:06:26 PM »
And unlike you I think Nintendo could do something about it. They could change pretty much everything and make it better. Anyway, beyond the tired formula I think there's a simple lack of ambition in these newer titles compared to the classic ones that we can all feel even through the trailers.

Oh, I didn't mean my "can't" to be taken literally. I definitely think there are ways to renew the franchise. I just don't think they will; and from a business standpoint, I don't blame them. Lack of ambition is indeed a good way to describe it.


Edited to add:  When watching that trailer, I felt like I was looking at Twilight Princess with a texture mod. Majora's Mask reused some assets entirely of course, but the game was so different in many other ways. I think maybe it's just because MM was using an engine from a game that I love so dearly. Whereas reminding me of Twilight Princess...well, not such a good idea.
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Offline Aphasia

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Re: The Thread of Zelda
« Reply #142 on: March 02, 2011, 09:20:17 PM »
OHHHHH YEAH!!!

Oh holy cow!

Windwaker tried to be original, but people were lukewarm on its aesthetics. Oh well.

I don't know about you guys, but I adored Windwaker's look.  The animation was so charming and warm.

Hey Nintendo! Here's an idea...a new IP! No? More sequels? Mario? Oh...Okay.  I'll just keep quietly buying your games anyways.

Oh, I didn't mean my "can't" to be taken literally. I definitely think there are ways to renew the franchise. I just don't think they will; and from a business standpoint, I don't blame them. Lack of ambition is indeed a good way to describe it.

Edited to add:  When watching that trailer, I felt like I was looking at Twilight Princess with a texture mod. Majora's Mask reused some assets entirely of course, but the game was so different in many other ways. I think maybe it's just because MM was using an engine from a game that I love so dearly. Whereas reminding me of Twilight Princess...well, not such a good idea.

It makes me wonder if they ever will.  Surely there will be a point people grow tired of (almost) the same gimmicks, which will push Nintendo to innovate or stagnate.  Poor sonic.

That's interesting, It doesn't remind me of Twilight Princess at all.  It reminds me more of Windwaker and Mario Galaxy.

Offline Dar Klink

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Re: The Thread of Zelda
« Reply #143 on: March 03, 2011, 12:45:45 AM »
The trailer made me want to ignore this game completely and play Link's Awakening again.
YOU ARE A FRIEND! My favorites are Majora's Mask, Wind Waker, and Link's Awakening, which I think is because of the atmosphere and stories in each of them. MM was pretty dark in a subtle way, WW's graphical style and animations looked so good to me, and everything from the music to the story in LA was perfect(these nostalgia goggles are pretty tight). Twilight Princess was the first one to just feel... samey to me, even Wind Waker's pirate crew and random inhabitants made more of an impression on me than... who was the supporting cast and townspeople in TP besides Midna and Zant? I'm excited because it's Zelda, but I'm not expecting anything amazing or innovative when it comes to atmosphere, story, characters, or gameplay...

Offline Griffith

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Re: The Thread of Zelda
« Reply #144 on: March 03, 2011, 03:12:22 AM »
My favorite Zelda game is Ocarina of Time because... it's the best game of all time. :femto:

Strangely, people more readily agree with the latter than the former, I guess that's why they're called favorites.

Offline Aphasia

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Re: The Thread of Zelda
« Reply #145 on: March 03, 2011, 03:32:58 AM »
YOU ARE A FRIEND! My favorites are Majora's Mask, Wind Waker, and Link's Awakening, which I think is because of the atmosphere and stories in each of them. MM was pretty dark in a subtle way, WW's graphical style and animations looked so good to me, and everything from the music to the story in LA was perfect(these nostalgia goggles are pretty tight). Twilight Princess was the first one to just feel... samey to me, even Wind Waker's pirate crew and random inhabitants made more of an impression on me than... who was the supporting cast and townspeople in TP besides Midna and Zant? I'm excited because it's Zelda, but I'm not expecting anything amazing or innovative when it comes to atmosphere, story, characters, or gameplay...

You have fantastic taste my friend.  :puck: Haha, Nostalgia goggles indeed.  Awakening is awesome.  And so is MM.  You never know, this one may surprise us.  I would consider Wind Waker to be the most charming and friendly of the series.  The animation really set it apart from the other entries.  It was cell shaded, which very few games do, but it was pulled off very well.  None of the games are bad by any means, but it would be awesome if they

1) Kicked my ass

2) Made me say "didn't see that coming"

My favorite Zelda game is Ocarina of Time because... it's the best game of all time. :femto:

Strangely, people more readily agree with the latter than the former, I guess that's why they're called favorites.

How does this make you feel? I believe these screens were just released from GDC.











Offline Truder

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Re: The Thread of Zelda
« Reply #146 on: March 03, 2011, 04:08:23 AM »
I think Link looks kinda short with an abonormaly big head in those screens. :void:

As for my favorite Zelda, I would say it's Majoras Mask. for reasons stated above.

And if I recall correctly, people weren't too happy with Wind Waker when they showed it off at E3, but we were pleasently suprised in the end weren't we? (well those who gave it a chance. my friends never played it because he said it looked stupid :mozgus:)

But yes.. i would love a difficulty settings in skyward sword:

-Beginner

-Normal

-Veteran

Difficulties PLEASE!

Offline Griffith

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Re: The Thread of Zelda
« Reply #147 on: March 03, 2011, 04:15:20 AM »
How does this make you feel? I believe these screens were just released from GDC.

http://bulk2.destructoid.com/ul/195481-/03-noscale.jpg

http://bulk2.destructoid.com/ul/195481-/06-noscale.jpg

http://bulk2.destructoid.com/ul/195481-/07-noscale.jpg

Not much. It doesn't look better enough to make it worthwhile over the original (3D notwithstanding). Let me put it this way, if you could play A Link to the Past with Donkey Kong Country-style graphics (for better or worse), wouldn't you rather just play the original?

As for my favorite Zelda, I would say it's Majoras Mask. for reasons stated above.

It's definitely my favorite overrated Zelda game. :iva:

Offline Saephon

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Re: The Thread of Zelda
« Reply #148 on: March 03, 2011, 06:14:02 AM »
Around these parts, no one except me likes Majora's Mask or Wind Waker. Usually because they didn't bother finishing them.

Cowards. :slan:
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Offline Griffith

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Re: The Thread of Zelda
« Reply #149 on: March 03, 2011, 06:46:27 AM »
Around these parts, no one except me likes Majora's Mask

If by "no one" you mean almost everyone, you're right. It's the hip pick for Zelda fans under 25 because it's nebulously unique, darker and more grown up... or something. More likely it just seemed that way when you were 14.

Usually because they didn't bother finishing them.

Cowards. :slan:

Not sure where you're going with this, usually when a person doesn't bother finishing easy games, it's not because something's wrong with the person. Speaking of Wind Waker though, I was just thinking that despite the fact that it's probably the most modern and self-aware Zelda story, it's style really did hurt it and the series. Not just from a "cool" factor because it was cute and cartoonish, but imagine if it'd looked like Twiight Princess instead. I think psychologically it would have been a very different experience, more like you were really lost exploring a vast and ominous sea with Link, less like you're playing with a toy boat.