The Thread of Zelda

[Walter]

try and keep it that way.

No, Im actually looking forward to it. I know a lot about the game already and the qualms Ive heard about it don't sound like they'll bother me. Anyway, It'll be Zelda overload for me pretty soon. I'm getting a Wii in November.

[Vampire_Hunter_Bob]

No, Im actually looking forward to it. I know a lot about the game already and the qualms Ive heard about it don't sound like they'll bother me.

I enjoyed the beginning of the game, but then the game just got really boring and almost not worth beating. It was almost like they didn't really try to make the game good towards the end.

[Walter]

It was almost like they didn't really try to make the game good towards the end.

I dunno, that final fight with Ganon looked pretty dramatic and awesome when I viewed it on YouTube. 

[Blues]

With TP (reason why I asked for clarification) I saw it the exact opposite with many reviews (the main typical auto-praise) giving it OoT successor labels (sans the now infamous 8.8 ). I agree with the middle section of the game being very strung out, but as I get closer to beating it I have much love for the game and I myself give it a big nod over Ocarina (READ READ READ, "overall game quality"). But like Jeff's review (Which was pretty much spot on) it wasn't entirely reinventing the "tried and true" format of 3D Zeldas. Again, like Walter I was a huge fan of OoT when it came out, but TP is just the better Zelda to me in terms of overall package, but didn't rework Zelda into any new medium like OoT did.

[Griffith]

TP is good, but it wasn't like the experience of OoT all over again even though it was blatantly trying to be that and everything else, even the given technological advancements, I still think OoT has better design, and minus the tedious portions of TP (BUG HUNT! WOLFIE WOOF WOOF!). Also, the plot in OoT actually centered on Zelda, Link, and Ganon. This was like Big Trouble in Little China; Link was really the sidekick. =)

Anyway, the dungeons weren't anymore well designed or challenging to me, just longer and more complicated, and the bosses might have actually been the easiest yet. You could basically feel confident with a heart going into any one of them (their difficulty was inversely proportional to their size it seemed). Link is basically a killing machine, and the later armored toughies (you fight like 6 total in the game, including the challenge dungeon) are really just systematic to kill. I haven't liked the targeting system since OoT (when it was better and more absorbing because you didn't have to hold the stupid button the whole time and could get into the battles, especially in Master Quest), but it doesn't even matter in TP, you can just mash buttons and you'll basically mow through everything without much trouble. They didn't even keep the battle advancements from WW, such as using enemy weapons. That stuff had promise if they actually incorporated it into the gameplay more than just for the fun of it.

But I don't mean to bash it, it's not at all bad and a real treat for Zelda nerds; TP pretty much incorporates and fuses all the plot elements of past Zeldas and more, as well as great fan service to the rest of the series overall (including an instance of brilliant fusion of OoT and LttP mythology). I really think they tried to make this the ultimate Zelda; so, it's still fun and full of awesome stuff, but judging it by that lofty goal, I'd say the PERFECT Zelda experience since OoT still alludes us.

[Vampire_Hunter_Bob]

I dunno, that final fight with Ganon looked pretty dramatic and awesome when I viewed it on YouTube. 

Yeah that was good, but the bosses leading up to it were boring and well easy. I wanted cool looking bosses that provided me with a certain level of pain and suffering. I guess the Iron Knuckles [that's what they are called right?] were supose to balance it out.

I also hated how you really didn't need to learn any of the special killing moves because you could beat the game with out it.

[Walter]

Building onto what Griff said, I'd like to talk a little bit about Phantoom Hourglass' plot, so for all who haven't gotten far in it (everyone but me apparently) I'll spoiler tag it out, for the purpose of discussion.

Phantom Hourglass spoilers ahead:

One of the great things about PH is that it doesn't try to be the end-all-be-all Zelda, incorporating all historic elements of the other games, but what's there is very cool. It's like the other side of the Windwaker world, uninfluenced (other than the FLOOD) by the Hyrulian fallout.

This game basically ushers in a new chapter in the series. It's beyond the Ganon/Link/Zelda conflict dominant in most other games.

[Blues]

saving space etc

I do think you're right on a lot of points. However, disagreements for some etc.
You could argue the "holy trinity" wasn't as centered on in TP as OoT, but all the same OoT was a smaller game when all is said and done and from beginning to end there wasn't enough space and the dungeons had just as much side story/fluff as those in TP, you just notice it due to TP dragging on a bit more in those areas.

As for what you said again I'm in agreement too, Twilight Princess to me at the moment -is- the ultimate Zelda experience (infusing the best of the whole franchise imo) -however- as I mentioned, it wasn't much of an advancement for the series. I don't think we're looking for a "better" Zelda since OoT (imo that's happened with TP), at least in my case, I'm looking for an "impact" akin to what OoT had on the franchise as a whole and not just a "better" game than the last entry.

[Griffith]

taking up space

Yeah, that's what I meant by OoT was better designed. TP has more, but what it's got more of isn't better.

[Aazealh]

I still think the best ending in the series is Zelda 2's. DISCUSS!

Honestly I found TP to be pretty good myself. Sure it's not perfect and I believe that with more efforts it could have been greatly ameliorated (my biggest complaint would be that it's too short), but even in my pink-tinted memories OoT wasn't exempt of defaults either. Though I've got to agree with Griffith, nothing came close since OoT to its feeling of ULTIMATE. The game design was really impressive and the story was engrossing and well done, but most of all it felt really complete, like nothing was missing from it.

Anyway, all this talk about TP is useless, all that needs to be said is that it features the coolest move in the series, shown at the end of this short video (starting at 00:17): http://youtube.com/watch?v=DLabtNSGbCs

[Walter]

Anyway, all this talk about TP is useless, all that needs to be said is that it features the coolest move in the series, shown at the end of this short video (starting at 00:17): http://youtube.com/watch?v=DLabtNSGbCs

What fan service  ... 

[Griffith]

What I don't get about that is why it only seems to happen guaranteed after you kill the plant enemies. I guess they wanted you to see it early on, but didn't want it to get old or repetitive with like if it happened with every other enemy.

[Blues]

I'm about 5+ hours into the game and I'm heavily mixed. Easily, it's the "Best Use" of the DS in a single game thus far, but all the same it just feels like an amalgam of all previous "innovative" DS titles crammed into one. Given to say that's no small feat, but so far the novelty is running thin rather quickly and I'm hoping the features Walter spoke about (clamshell etc) redeem this into a "fresh" factor later on. The phantom hourglass portions of the game (namely ocean king so far) are terribly paced and the difficulty (especially given sans DS features, the basics here are fundamental Zelda of course) thus far is leaving something to be desired. Basically, so far none of the features (even boomerang) have really stuck out as truly new territory, and moving/using Link in general isn't so far off from how we've been using a mouse to move RTS units/point and click games for decades now.

Negative nagging aside, I'm having fun with it and its a great handheld game to pass time at work, but nothing -yet- is catching me to make me sing it in epic form.

[Walter]

Easily, it's the "Best Use" of the DS in a single game thus far

Isn't that a pretty awesome achievement though? I mean, there's only a certain number of ways the DS can be used, and this game does all the good ones, and throws in some new ones too. I'd call that a good job.

Given to say that's no small feat, but so far the novelty is running thin rather quickly and I'm hoping the features Walter spoke about (clamshell etc) redeem this into a "fresh" factor later on.

Well, the wide usage of the input options slims out as you progress. The game dabbles in different ways to control things, but settles on a handful, which is fine. What I like the most about the controls is how natural it feels even shifting gears between weapons that use different inputs, as you get further in the game. Wait til you get the HAMMER 

The phantom hourglass portions of the game (namely ocean king so far) are terribly paced and the difficulty (especially given sans DS features, the basics here are fundamental Zelda of course) thus far is leaving something to be desired.

Really? I find those Phantom dungeons the toughest and best planned in the game. And those portions of the game definitely increase in difficulty as you progress. It's easily the most intimidating dungeon, and only gets harder when the variables begin changing, as you'll see later ("B12?! You gotta be kidding me!").

Basically, so far none of the features (even boomerang) have really stuck out as truly new territory, and moving/using Link in general isn't so far off from how we've been using a mouse to move RTS units/point and click games for decades now.

That's like saying, "This Cadillac is just like a BMW! They both have a gas and brake pedal!" There's only so much you can do with navigating via touch-screen, so some superficial "repeats" are bound to happen across such a wide genre as video games. But I think the way PH integrates the controls feels spot on. And that's all that really matters at the end of the day.

Anyway, if you're only 5 hours in, you haven't seen the best uses of the controls in weapons yet. But has another game used something like the boomerang, the way its used here? You know it has like, 3 ways to be used.

[Blues]

Isn't that a pretty awesome achievement though? I mean, there's only a certain number of ways the DS can be used, and this game does all the good ones, and throws in some new ones too. I'd call that a good job.

Like I said it's no small feat and thus an achievement in your words, but as I mentioned it is an amalgam of the best DS features, yet we are also three years into its lifespan, its quite easy to feel some of it is familiar territory. My only negative here were the things that are "innovative" and unique to PH itself -thus- far in the game haven't really blown away my expectations. Maybe its' because I've had well over a year now to expect a stylus-controlled Link and boomerang, thus less of a "welcomed surprise" and more of an expectation that met up.

Really? I find those Phantom dungeons the toughest and best planned in the game. And those portions of the game definitely increase in difficulty as you progress. It's easily the most intimidating dungeon, and only gets harder when the variables begin changing, as you'll see later

When I mentioned difficulty I meant the game itself and not the "PH" dungeons. My problem lies with how the PH dungeons are paced/need of backtracking (I hear there's a save point at some time that lets you go back to a certain floor?) and not that there is no fun to be had. I want to make it clear my negative criticisms aren't "Wow, I really -hate- this" so much as a way of "seeing something perfectly" and not as simply "perfect". I can't really think of any fandom/favorite I have where I don't have just as many negative sidenotes, but the amount of negatives aren't substantial to do any harm to its overall quality.

That's like saying, "This Cadillac is just like a BMW! They both have a gas and brake pedal!"

Again it was just a negative side note, not a complaint that its not fun to control Link.

Anyway, if you're only 5 hours in, you haven't seen the best uses of the controls in weapons yet.

Thus why I noted many times (and still do) the big "yet" factor, I know having played Zelda for well over a decade+ now the series' strong point is escalation in expectations as the game advances, thus I didn't want to sit here and say it in a way that would imply all these negatives are here to stay.

[Walter]

I beat it yesterday. Cool ending I thought, especially for those familiar with the rest of the series. After all is said and done, I'd say this is a good return to the basics for Zelda. The game doesn't stretch itself too thin, and stays true to its top-down, adventure-seeking roots.

I give it a 9/10. Not perfect, but easily the best DS game I've played so far and the most fun I've had with a Zelda title since Ocarina of Time.

[handsome rakshas]

As corny and fake as it may be, its pretty well made. I thought some of you Zelda fans might get a kick out of it.

[Aazealh]

As corny and fake as it may be, its pretty well made. I thought some of you Zelda fans might get a kick out of it.

Thanks, that's great. I imagine you forgot the link in the youtube thread, where I posted it yesterday.

http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=7078.msg149763#msg149763

As a matter of fact, rumor has it that IGN spent a lot of money on this April Fools.

[handsome rakshas]

Oops, sorry about that. I always seem seem oblivious to the fact we have a youtube thread.

[Aazealh]

It's cool, it deserves its own thread anyway (well, maybe not). So, uhhh, while we're at it, check out these RE4 April Fools videos:

http://www.the-horror.com/index.php?id=re4vid

They're the ones at the bottom of the General Videos, called "Classic RE4".

[Death May Die]

Speaking of jokes, this happened a while back. Any one in the RE site community may be famliar, this was posted by "Rombie" of Biohazard Extreme




Fake Biohazard4: Umbrella Rising Boxart
Well I said that I'd give away a secret and here it is! It was me who created the obviously fake Biohazard4: Umbrella Rising boxart in 2000 that still floats around the web today. Yup, I'm the fired Capcom designer who sent an e-mail to various fansites including my own under a false name and e-mail-address. But I was not alone, good old Rombie from Resident Evil Fan: A New Blood was on it as well. Why we did such a stupid thing? Plain fun! We wanted to see how fast it would spread throughout the community... and it did quite well to say the least! But we really couldn't fool anybody with it - it was soon discovered that the image I've been using was from the movie Psycho II, I didn't know that myself at the time, hehe. I scanned that picture from a German gaming magazine's Resident Evil 2 review. And I indeed used - as many people found out - an original PSX long box, ironically the Resident Evil long box. However, it was great to see how many websites had this in their news, Rombie and I had a good laugh! Thank you and sorry for the bollocks.


That thing was a pretty big issue at the time, others and myself where very interested in the news. Funny, the game wouldn't release till 5 years later. A lot of people really thought it was the real deal. If you would of asked me about it a few months ago, I would of said it was the real oringal RE4 casing. back when RE4 took place on a flying Umbrella base.

[Walter]

Well if you think that relates, then I may as well tell you guys about this intensely real radio broadcast in 1938 claiming that Martians had invaded the Earth! People were panicking in their homes listening to it, but it all turns out to have been a fake radio show done by Orson Welles based on 2001: A Space Odyssey. What a joker!

[Griffith]

Man, you guys are killing Death May Die lately, yeesh. =)

Anyway, thought this was cool, here's a nifty making of video for the Zelda trailer:

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/199164.html

Depending on how much they're exaggerating, sounds like they could at least edit and release a short film at some point if they so desired. And BTW, was I the only one who noticed that their Ganon bears a striking resemblance to basketball legend Bill Walton?

[Aazealh]

Anyway, thought this was cool, here's a nifty making of video for the Zelda trailer:

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/199164.html

Depending on how much they're exaggerating, sounds like they could at least edit and release a short film at some point if they so desired.

It was neat, but my favorite part was the music so I think something's wrong.

And BTW, was I the only one who noticed that their Ganon bears a striking resemblance to basketball legend Bill Walton?

I hadn't noticed, but now I can tell you that I agree.

[slayer81]

Thank God it was an April Fools prank lol. From my experiences, Motion Picture adaptations of video games tend to be huge let-downs, more often than not. Speaking of which, if anyone remembers the Mario Bros movie from back in the day... jeeez, somebody really missed the toilet bowl on that one