The Thread of Zelda

Johnstantine

Skibbidy Boo Bop
Walter said:
If you like Zelda 3 so much, then I don't see why you'd have a problem with Windwaker's art design. Both are pretty cartoonish. Windwaker's style is transcendent to me. I remember it being not well received at the time, but it's regarded as one of the best-looking games of all time now. It has aged amazingly well, unlike Twilight Princess. You should definitely play it.

That being said, Windwaker has its issues to me. Pacing is a problem. But it has some of the greatest moments in the series.

I only recently played Windwaker, and I enjoyed the shit out of it. The pacing is also a problem. At one point I remember the story just sort of dropping off, and then not picking back up for some time. I thought that the world was to broad for its own good. Took too fucking long to get somewhere unless you learned the Ballad of Gales.

Other than those? I loved it.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
The moment when black and white becomes color... is one of my favorite moments in gaming.

Johnstantine said:
I thought that the world was to broad for its own good. Took too fucking long to get somewhere unless you learned the Ballad of Gales.
Navigating the huge world on a boat with dynamic weather and water is fantastic on paper. In practice... it gets old pretty quick.

If we keep talking about Windwaker like this, Griff will likely hear us and jump in here guns'a blazing. :ganishka:
 
Walter said:
If you like Zelda 3 so much, then I don't see why you'd have a problem with Windwaker's art design. Both are pretty cartoonish. Windwaker's style is transcendent to me. I remember it being not well received at the time, but it's regarded as one of the best-looking games of all time now. It has aged amazingly well, unlike Twilight Princess. You should definitely play it.

That being said, Windwaker has its issues to me. Pacing is a problem. But it has some of the greatest moments in the series.

Well I said at the time it didn't appeal to me. You have to think Windwaker came right after Ocarina of Time/Majora's mask. Which everyone pretty much loved Ocarina of Time myself included. So when I saw Windwaker and the game looked very cartoonish, I felt like they made it for a younger audience.

I know I shouldn't have been so cynical about how the game looks because everytime I have told people how I felt about Windwaker. A lot of people would defend it and obviously it still happens. So I try not to talk to bad about a game I haven't even tried. Just saying I was disappointed back in the day about it.

As for A link to the past it gets away with it because anything was a welcome upgrade from Nintendo. Anyways it wasn't the graphics that wowed me back in the day it was the story. Light and Dark world they kind of did that for Ocarina of Time as well just Link was in slumber for like 9 years wasn't it? Woke up and the world went to hell.

See I always have to give Link to the past the number one spot in the series, even though I feel some of the other Zelda games are totally on par with that game. What stands out to me was that I was younger back in the SNES days. So my best memory of that game was "Oh man I finally did it, it was so hard but I beat it!" (Struggled a lot more then, I have replayed of course it's a easy cake walk through now.) Then it was like *you spawn on-top of a pyramid* "What is going on????" *Open map* Holy shit there is 8 other temples and the world totally changed, I was not expecting any of that. Just something that has stayed with me over the years.
Kind of like FF3/6 you think it's almost done but then you come to find out your only half way into the game. Another favorite game of mine.

Yup SNES definitely one of the best systems got Chrono Trigger, Zelda, Super Metroid, DK series (2nd was favorite), Super Mario RPG, Mario world, Super Mario kart, Yoshi's island, FF3/6, MK, Killer Instinct and Battletoads. I feel like I am missing some but I can only remember so many.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Game's great overall, but looking for the Triforce shards at the end is as much of a timesink as looking for the Sky Temple keys in Metroid Prime 2: Echoes. It's a chore meant to lengthen the game.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Icelin said:
Anyways it wasn't the graphics that wowed me back in the day it was the story. Light and Dark world they kind of did that for Ocarina of Time as well just Link was in slumber for like 9 years wasn't it? Woke up and the world went to hell.
It's a bit different because in Zelda 3 it's not time travel, but a dimensional shift. You shift from Hyrule to the desecrated Golden Land (Dark World).

See I always have to give Link to the past the number one spot in the series,
No argument here.

Yup SNES definitely one of the best systems got Chrono Trigger, Zelda, Super Metroid, DK series (2nd was favorite), Super Mario RPG, Mario world, Super Mario kart, Yoshi's island, FF3/6, MK, Killer Instinct and Battletoads. I feel like I am missing some but I can only remember so many.
No argument here. Except I don't think Killer Instinct or Battletoads are worth mentioning along with the others in that list.
 

Johnstantine

Skibbidy Boo Bop
Aazealh said:
Game's great overall, but looking for the Triforce shards at the end is as much of a timesink as looking for the Sky Temple keys in Metroid Prime 2: Echoes. It's a chore meant to lengthen the game.

*cough* Silent Realm in Skyward Sword *cough*
 

Saephon

Die young and save yourself
The pacing complaint about Wind Waker (which I completely agree with), actually made me realize something I did enjoy about Twilight Princess. There was virtually no lack of content or glaringly "incomplete" areas in the game. While I despise the wolf/fairy-hunting segments, in the grand scheme of things they didn't hurt the pacing the way the Triforce hunt did. Also I think the TP version of Hyrule is a good size. It's just....a lifeless region. I know I've harped on this before, but the majority of NPCs are background citizens you can't even talk to, and they're all concentrated in one area. When has 5 people ever constituted a "village"? This incarnation of Kakariko is a disgrace to the ones we're used to.

It's a shame; the atmosphere in TP was actually really well done, and the dungeons were pretty good. It just lacked a living, breathing world worth saving.
 

Dar_Klink

Last Guardian when? - CyberKlink 20XX before dying
1RIX8
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
I'd rather they spend time on a new game... Zelda is a franchise that by its nature cashes in on nostalgia. This is double dipping.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Dar Klink said:
who wouldn't buy an HD Wind Waker?
I'm not completely against it--Windwaker is a fantastic game (for the most part...) But the concept of replaying it just doesn't excite me. I also saw a video that showed some more screens, and it didn't necessarily look like an improvement over the original. The characters actually looked less a part of the world than in the Gamecube version.

2419555-wiiu_zeldawindwakernd_scrn09.jpg
 

SlimeBeherit

[FIGHT][SPELL] [SACRIFICE][ITEM]
Walter said:
I'm not completely against it--Windwaker is a fantastic game (for the most part...)

Though they did address that, saying they would "tune up the game experience." Which most people are taking as "we are adding the 2 dungeons we took out." Then again I'm assuming your "for the most part" was aimed at the sluggish end of WW.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Slime_Beherit said:
Then again I'm assuming your "for the most part" was aimed at the sluggish end of WW.
This, pretty much. While I enjoyed the concept and sense of adventure you get by setting sail on a huge ocean, it got tedious pretty quick for me. And so much of the end felt like a chore as a result.
 

Johnstantine

Skibbidy Boo Bop
Walter said:
This, pretty much. While I enjoyed the concept and sense of adventure you get by setting sail on a huge ocean, it got tedious pretty quick for me. And so much of the end felt like a chore as a result.

I agree. Although, I thought the overall feeling I got from the game made it worth it. The HD update is cool and all, but I rather enjoyed the art in WW. This sort of detracts from one of the biggest draws of the game.

As for the new Zelda game, it was more or less confirmed a few months ago. Here's to hoping it's awesome.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Dar Klink said:
who wouldn't buy an HD Wind Waker?

Well I sure won't. I liked WW a lot on the GC, great game, but I'd rather just have an upscaled VC version than buy a full remake. It's like with the prospect of a MM port on the 3DS: while a clever marketing move, it's not what I personally am looking forward to. We want new games!
 

Saephon

Die young and save yourself
I love Wind Waker. Adore it really, it's one of my favorite Zelda games. But it's getting a bit sad how hamfisted Nintendo's appeal to nostalgia is getting. Maybe I was just oblivious to it in years past, but it's become especially noticeable to me with the 3DS and Wii U. "Buy our unremarkable new console! It has Mario and Zelda remakes!"

Also, if there was ever a game that did not need a graphical update, it's this one. The cell-shading is timeless. Just put in those two missing dungeons, replace the Triforce quest with something more interesting, and upscale the game for 1080p, please? :griffnotevil:
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Was flipping through the Hyrule Historia tonight, which led to playing Wind Waker in 1080p on Dolphin, and... it looks better than the upcoming Wii U version. As a matter of fact, judging from the screens and videos, they're basically forsaking the cel-shaded style that's made Wind Waker's visuals virtually ageless in exchange for the standard graphical bells and whistles that make the new one look dated already (check out my blooms, bro!). The characters really look half-assed, like trying to fake cel-shaded characters on models using dynamic lighting. Gross.

Saephon said:
Also, if there was ever a game that did not need a graphical update, it's this one. The cell-shading is timeless.

Yep, it's aged the best out of any in the series (that also goes for the more irreverently self-aware tone), and with emulators like Dolphin it can basically continue to be upresed as long as the textures allow. Even if this new edition is technically better by today's standards, in 5 years it will look more dated than the original. Dumb.

Speaking of the Historia, at least a third of Eiji Aonuma's write up about the Zelda series was a sailing analogy that was so clearly describing Wind Waker that it must indisputably be his proudest achievement (especially since TP kinda sucks despite trying its best to be the best Zelda ever on paper). Also, while I'm fellating Wind Waker, I'd like to say that the Triforce hunt at the end reminds me of the open world spirit of the original Zelda more than anything else in the modern 3D games (collecting 8 split triforce shards doesn't hurt the nostalgia trip either =), and it's a much more natural and appropriate time sink than the equivalent crap in Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword.
 

Johnstantine

Skibbidy Boo Bop
Griffith said:
Was flipping through the Hyrule Historia tonight, which led to playing Wind Waker in 1080p on Dolphin, and... it looks better than the upcoming Wii U version. As a matter of fact, judging from the screens and videos, they're basically forsaking the cel-shaded style that's made Wind Waker's visuals virtually ageless in exchange for the standard graphical bells and whistles that make the new one look dated already (check out my blooms, bro!). The characters really look half-assed, like trying to fake cel-shaded characters on models using dynamic lighting. Gross.

Yep, it's aged the best out of any in the series (that also goes for the more irreverently self-aware tone), and with emulators like Dolphin it can basically continue to be upresed as long as the textures allow. Even if this new edition is technically better by today's standards, in 5 years it will look more dated than the original. Dumb.

Speaking of the Historia, at least a third of Eiji Aonuma's write up about the Zelda series was a sailing analogy that was so clearly describing Wind Waker that it must indisputably be his proudest achievement (especially since TP kinda sucks despite trying its best to be the best Zelda ever on paper). Also, while I'm fellating Wind Waker, I'd like to say that the Triforce hunt at the end reminds me of the open world spirit of the original Zelda more than anything else in the modern 3D games (collecting 8 split triforce shards doesn't hurt the nostalgia trip either =), and it's a much more natural and appropriate time sink than the equivalent crap in Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword.

I agree with you 100%. Initially, I was going to get a Wii-U at the thought of WW being in HD, but not THAT type of HD.

Also, I'm incredibly jealous of your Historia. There's already a wait list for the next batch. I'm on it, and should have it next week. But, being a brat, I want it now.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Johnstantine said:
I agree with you 100%. Initially, I was going to get a Wii-U at the thought of WW being in HD, but not THAT type of HD.

I'm assuming they're going to update the controls to be like Skyward Sword's, and maybe allow you to do some cool map stuff on the new controller screen (though perhaps my expectations are still too high), but it begs the question... why not do Skyward Sword in HD, make it look basically like a classic Disney movie you can play, and totally blow it out with full voice (about the most urgent technical update the Zelda series needs). It wouldn't feel so much like a lame remake since its still relatively recent, more like a special updated edition for the Wii U. That's much more enticing than a 10 year old game one can already play a better version of on their PC. Then again, I'm already working on that for my copy of Skyward Sword too:

http://kotaku.com/5866481/how-to-play-wii-games-in-high-definition-on-your-pc
http://kotaku.com/5860550/skyward-sword-running-on-pc-looks-gorgeous

Still, one can't add the voice or enhance the graphics beyond what's already there.

Johnstantine said:
Also, I'm incredibly jealous of your Historia. There's already a wait list for the next batch. I'm on it, and should have it next week. But, being a brat, I want it now.

Yeah, I'm still discovering all the little fun things about it (I even like how they approach the BS timeline, the explanation feels like it was written by some wizard-lawyer). It also makes me wish Skyward Sword hadn't petered out since there's so much space dedicated to it and there's still a lot to like about it despite it not reaching its potential. You know, if they could find a way to smash Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess together you really would have the best Zelda game ever; they basically have what the other is missing. Oh wait, they did do that, it's called Ocarina (the best game) of (all) Time. =)
 

Johnstantine

Skibbidy Boo Bop
Oracle of Ages and Oracle of Seasons are both available for download on the DS for $4.99 a piece until June 20th. Might be worth it, but I've never played either game.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
logo.jpg
char.png


http://e3.nintendo.com/games/detail/legend-of-zelda-a-link-between-worlds/

So it looks like the wall walking is not just one of a few new wrinkles to the gameplay, but THE wrinkle. The title and logo are so-so, like what's with that ugly, asymmetrical subtitle? If you're going to try to crib everything about Zelda III, at least use the classic LoZ font.
nerdrage.gif


Anyway, combined with the news of Yoshi's NEW Island, this sure seems a lot less special and a lot more like Nintendo is just rolling out remixed versions of classic SNES titles for 3DS like it's a thing now (plus that new Mario World furry game for the Wii U =). Look out for NEW Super NEW Metroid NEW 3 NEW D next (not that I'd mind, actually)!
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
They didn't show too much off at E3, but I just read an interview with series director Eiji Aonuma in EDGE magazine where he talks a little bit more about why they chose this project, and what we can expect.

  • There will be a dark world (duh, look at that logo).
  • This is set "a generation after" the events in Zelda 3
  • Zelda 3 was the game that inspired Aonuma to become a game designer, so it's very close to him.
  • They chose the overhead perspective for a variety of reasons, one of which was that combat had become slow in the 3D games, so he wanted a return to quick, snappy action.
  • There's a balance they're trying to strike between the old and the new—how much of the world will remain the same, how much will be different. This is the key part, and Aonuma was very frank about that.

That being said, I don't have much faith in Aonuma anymore. I can't remember the last time a Zelda game truly affected me. Probably OoT. But I'm holding out hope that despite that this appears to be the retread of all retreads (I wonder if there will be a "returning to the well" sequence to collect a heart fragment. Probably!), I hold out hope that there will be something special about this game to warrant a return to the older style.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Johnstantine said:
The combat had become slow in the 3D games? What...I don't even...
I don't know what's confusing to you. It definitely slowed down between Zelda 3 and Ocarina of Time. Taking one enemy down then turning around, hitting another, then charging, and taking out a whole area full of them took seconds. Where in OoT that would involve a lot of Z targeting.
 
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