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Offline Walter

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Re: The Thread of Zelda
« Reply #275 on: November 30, 2013, 02:28:26 AM »
I finished A Link  Between Worlds a few days ago, but forgot to write my impressions down. I'll try to be brief since we'll be talking about it at length on a future podcast.

I really enjoyed it. I don't think there's a better 3DS game available. That's not to say it's a perfect experience; far from it. But if you have any love for the Zelda franchise, go out and buy this game right now and enjoy the warm nostalgia bath.

First of all, the game is just fun. As I was finishing it, I told Aaz that I don't think the game could hold my interest enough for a second playthrough. Two days later, I'm eating these words, now nearly halfway through a second quest. Why? Because in spite of everything I'm going to pick on in this review, it's hard to put down.

One of the biggest things driving this is that the game controls fantastically well. Link moves quickly and can attack nearly at the pace of the player's input. This has an addictive quality complemented by all the things there are to collect and hunt down. Mowing through enemies in this manner makes you feel empowered from the very beginning. This results in a feeling of control that's better than any Zelda game in recent memory, and it's a shame that the level of control you're given is rarely put to the test.  You're too capable actually, given the range of challenges. The game is simply far too easy for anyone with experience in the series.

At first, I thought the item renting mechanic would be totally broken, but I ended up enjoying renting all the items up front. This bridges over the standard item tutorialization process that lovingly clogs much of the first few dungeons in recent Zelda games. But this clever idea truly only amounts to convenience, not cleverness. It doesn't throw you quite enough curveballs to live up to its potential. Don't hold your breath for a dungeon requiring all of the items in a clever fashion. Instead the designers opted to streamline them, picking one or two required items per dungeon instead of planning a dungeon around the notion that every player would rent all the items up front. That's really too bad, and a missed opportunity for a grand experience that rewards critical thinking instead of following obvious cues.

While I waxed and waned on the game's heavy reliance on nostalgia, I think in hindsight it's both a strength and weakness. The world greets you like an old friend, then predictably pulls back to reveal another, darker world. While this is well-trodden territory, I can't find the will to complain about this kind of mechanic, as it's among my favorite in video games. The world itself was always a joy to explore, even if I knew more or less what was around almost every corner. While there are problems with the game's reliance on its predecessor, the world design isn't it.

As great as this game is, it's not nearly as great as it should have been. Even when charged by the excellent soundtrack, no single moment in the game felt quite as epic as the highs in Zelda 3—among the best of which are obtaining the Master Sword and setting out on the Dark World quest. Both of those moments are in this game in their own fashion, but fall well short of their relatives. The game fundamentally lacks a grandness that was at the core of the Zelda 3 experience. These comparisons with one of the greatest games of all time would sound unfair in any other instance. But this is a special case. The game proudly plants its feet in the shadow of its predecessor, an unenviable position for any game. As a result, it is trapped within the boundaries it sets for itself, and even though it takes great strides, it's still just a revised trip down memory lane.

To touch on the story briefly, it's really just a turd with little thought invested into it, which is a shame. I genuinely wish one day Nintendo would wake up and grace a Zelda game with a story that can match its other grand qualities. I don't need a novel-length text. Just something that develops beyond the distinct boundaries of beginning, middle and end.

Here's hoping that while the developers made this game, they realized what made Zelda 3 a great game to begin with, and they take these lessons learned into their headspace for the next big Zelda game.

To reply to Griff now:

And yeah, the painting mechanic was never better than the first time you use it. It might has well have been the hookshot for all it's good for, ultimately (basically getting across a room/chasm).
I go back and forth on it. At first, I had to remind myself that I had the ability, and stupidly missed some obvious puzzle solutions while exploring. Once I got in the mindset of using it, I thought it was awesome. Then it becomes an old hat that's not developed beyond the first two or three times you use it. Too bad...

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The thief hideout was quite an introduction to the Lorule dungeons. It certainly set a brisk tone that got me excited for the rest, and I wasn't disappointed.
I started out with the Dark Palace, thenThief's Hideout, and it was all downhill from there for me. Those were easily the best dungeons in the game, for my money. Loved every second of them.

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"OMG YOU FOUND THE BOOMARANG!" (which I think is literally useless in the game =).
It's been super-useful in Hero Mode to stun enemies that could otherwise one-shot you. It's my weapon of choice right now.

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but was genuinely surprised when they revealed Ravio as the Lorule hero
The bunny ears gave it away, for me ("Hey, that's what Dark World Link looked li- Ohhhhhh.")

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I would have preferred that it was Ganon that emerged and defied Hilda once Link beats Yuga's first form (I mean, he is the demon king with the Triforce of Power and all, maybe HE should have been using Yuga instead, huh). Ultimately, it's a small distinction, I'll just have to settle for them being merged and imagining it's Ganon's power and influence that's really in control.
I'm pretty sure that's exactly what happens. But it's a fault of the game for that not being a more pivotal moment.

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Just like I'm imagining Link is the direct descendent of ALttP Link, if not his son. =)
Yeah, but since Zelda is royalty, thinking about that too hard starts to get pretty gross...

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it's like Zelda reduced to it's most basic gameplay essence, not as challenging as I might like, but definitely everything fun and engaging about it.
That's a good way of putting it. And Hero Mode is worth it so far, since it forces you to be more tactical with enemies. Still, a Master Quest rearrange would have been nice as well...
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Griffith

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Re: The Thread of Zelda
« Reply #276 on: November 30, 2013, 04:28:57 AM »
The game fundamentally lacks a grandness that was at the core of the Zelda 3 experience.

It's like they didn't even try to top Zelda 3, but modernize it's gameplay and world and basically reduce everything else to it's simplest form. It's like the modern free play version of Zelda 3, which is quite fun and addictive as it turns out. I also think part of the point was to make it accessible to anyone. Zelda 3 is quite a chore by today's standards.

To touch on the story briefly, it's really just a turd with little thought invested into it, which is a shame.

It only works as something you're not supposed to pay much attention to that only implies depth in the background (like a painting =). It's clearly supposed to be out of the way. The dialogue is so casual and the story so de-emphasized that I was sort of shocked when it suddenly had a real and relatively extended ending sequence. I figured Link would just pick up the Triforce and hold it over his head while Zelda and Hilda congratulated him. The End. The sad part is if THIS is what they think of Zelda 3's plot, or that this is better. I wouldn't be surprised.

Also, think the fact that there's two Triforces now will be incorporated into the future games? Will Ganon be trying to get both? =)

I genuinely wish one day Nintendo would wake up and grace a Zelda game with a story that can match its other grand qualities. I don't need a novel-length text. Just something that develops beyond the distinct boundaries of beginning, middle and end.

Well, OoT, Majora's Mask, and Wind Waker all have their strengths when it comes to storytelling (and actually make for a fantastic trilogy and the storytelling pinnacle of the series when thus considered). Ocarina of Time's fairy tale quality is actually pretty elegant and basically the quintessential Zelda legend on its own, without over-complicating everything (see Twilight Princess, which pretty much took it as far as it could go if Skyward Sword is any indication). I'm not sure what else they could do other than try to get it PERFECT (OoT more or less did that), or explore the nature and implications of the Zelda Legend more deeply and abstractly (which the Oot, MM, WW trilogy did, building on each other rather than just doing the whole random Legend with a gazillionth new Link like this one did even though it's supposedly following up Zelda 3). Otherwise you're stuck with a bunch of lighter offbeat material, which this game falls into, or the aforementioned overly grandiose pseudo-LOTR style of TP; which tried to encompass nearly everything in the series by itself, which I don't mind, it's still arguably the best Zelda game... on paper (I'm still in awe of its rectification of the Temple of Time/Lost Woods Master Sword resting place).

BTW, quick tangent: why didn't Nintendo remake that game, the most successful in the series besides OoT, in HD, which it would have benefited from the most, instead of the one with the timeless look that didn't need it and for which there was no demand...? Ugh. Moving on.

It's been super-useful in Hero Mode to stun enemies that could otherwise one-shot you. It's my weapon of choice right now.

Good to know it'll actually come in handy.

The bunny ears gave it away, for me ("Hey, that's what Dark World Link looked li- Ohhhhhh.")

And I'm so dumb I didn't get that until you just told me. Definitely improves that aspect of the game. =)

Yeah, but since Zelda is royalty, thinking about that too hard starts to get pretty gross...

Well, clearly it's Zelda 3 Link's bastard with one of the other sage descendent babes. It's hard to say which though because Link took them all as lovers, at once. See my Zelda 3 erotic fanfic page for more information (coming soon it's already here: Ravio/Hilda romance and Link/Ravio yaoi).

That's a good way of putting it. And Hero Mode is worth it so far, since it forces you to be more tactical with enemies. Still, a Master Quest rearrange would have been nice as well...

You know what would have been so nice and doable that it's criminal they didn't include it? A hero/rearrange mode with the option of playing free camera/behind Link, modern Zelda style! I mean, half the excitement of the wall walking was seeing the world differently, and this would have been like a whole new game and arguably the ultimate Zelda. I also hate this idea because it's so good it makes me feel cheated and like the game less as is. =)

Offline Walter

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Re: The Thread of Zelda
« Reply #277 on: November 30, 2013, 05:23:22 AM »
Well, OoT, Majora's Mask, and Wind Waker all have their strengths when it comes to storytelling ... I'm not sure what else they could do other than try to get it PERFECT (OoT more or less did that), or explore the nature and implications of the Zelda Legend more deeply and abstractly
There are so many things they could do with the story that have been off limits because they're stuck repeating the same storytelling formula. It could for example be a much more character-driven story. Imagine starting off the game by playing as Ganon, who's still a human, in the middle of a dungeon. This brief introductory sequence could flesh out his character motivations for wanting the Triforce of Power, why he's worthy of it, and humanize his side of the story instead of it being an ultimate evil kind of thing, even if it does end up that way by the end. Link's quest could indirectly lead to Ganon's corruption, hence their eternal rivalry. Etc. Etc.

Also, have Link talk.  :magni:

I'm sure this kind of story wouldn't be popular with everyone, but it's still something I'd like to see Nintendo explore.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Griffith

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Re: The Thread of Zelda
« Reply #278 on: November 30, 2013, 07:54:02 AM »
There are so many things they could do with the story that have been off limits because they're stuck repeating the same storytelling formula. It could for example be a much more character-driven story.

Sadly, I think they were trying to do that with Skyward Sword, which doesn't give me much faith in their ability to reinvent the series. As a matter of fact, that the latest game is literally Zelda 3 II doesn't bode very well at all in that regard.

Imagine starting off the game by playing as Ganon, who's still a human, in the middle of a dungeon. This brief introductory sequence could flesh out his character motivations for wanting the Triforce of Power, why he's worthy of it, and humanize his side of the story instead of it being an ultimate evil kind of thing, even if it does end up that way by the end. Link's quest could indirectly lead to Ganon's corruption, hence their eternal rivalry. Etc. Etc.

The closest they've come to that, quite specifically like that actually, is in Wind Waker when an older and more mature Ganon gets introspective in post-apocalyptic underwater Hyrule (see, they tried new things =):

My country lay within a vast desert. When the sun rose into the sky, a burning wind punished my lands, searing the world. And when the moon climbed into the dark of night, a frigid gale pierced our homes. No matter when it came the wind carried the same thing... Death. But the winds that blew across the green fields of Hyrule brought something other than suffering and ruin. I coveted that wind, I suppose.

It can only be called fate... That here, I would again gather the three with the crests... That I should lay my hand on that which grants the wishes of the beholder... That when power, wisdom, and courage come together, the gods would have no choice but to come down... The power of the gods... The Triforce! He who touches it will have whatever he desires granted! Already the crest of wisdom is mine... All that remains...

Do not fear. I will not kill you... I merely have need of the power that dwells within you. Now! Let us put an end to that which binds us together!

Gods! Hear that which I desire! Expose this land to the rays of the sun once more! Let them burn forth! Give Hyrule to ME!!!

Pretty eloquent and a revolution compared to his usual, "MUAHAHAHAHA!" They all had a lot more naturally developed personality in that game, even Link thanks to his more expressive face and human motivations.

Also, have Link talk.  :magni:

I'm conflicted on that, but why not? He already talks, we just don't get to know exactly what he's saying. At the very least give everyone else a voice in the future games. Console Zelda games, particularly something like Skyward Sword, shouldn't be text based in 2013.

I'm sure this kind of story wouldn't be popular with everyone, but it's still something I'd like to see Nintendo explore.

I feel like the series did some of the things you're asking for in it's heyday, though. Again, the material in OoT, MM, and WW for example was by no means the formula at the time. It seems that way in hindsight because it all rang true and Nintendo has been trying to recapture the magic since, but at the time those games were all quite original to the series. It's just that ever since then Nintendo hasn't been able to successfully create something original that still feels right or vice versa. It's either quite derivative and traditional (TP) or so irreverent it seemingly doesn't even take itself seriously (see the hand helds). Like with Wind Waker, if only they would use a healthy dose of irreverence to risk doing something truly original with the series.

Offline IncantatioN

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Re: The Thread of Zelda
« Reply #279 on: December 14, 2013, 02:09:54 PM »
At the end of time, a moment will come when just one man remains. Then the moment will pass. Man will be gone. There will be nothing to show that we were ever here... but stardust.

Offline Johnstantine

Re: The Thread of Zelda
« Reply #280 on: December 18, 2013, 03:27:33 PM »
Hyrule Warriors was announced. Basically like Dynasty Warriors.

Excuse me while I finish cleaning up the jizz from the floor after having seen the trailer.

Offline Slime_Beherit

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Re: The Thread of Zelda
« Reply #281 on: December 18, 2013, 04:52:36 PM »
I'm not a fan of the Dynasty Warrior's games, so I'm not really looking for it. I'll pass  :daiba:

Nintendo is really throwing around their IP's all over the place. It doesn't really bother me that mario stuff pops up in other games, but Zelda is more sacred. I feel this will cheapen the franchise, moreso than Skyward Sword that is...

The one thing I do like is the character model, looks pretty good. Sakurai should take note




Offline Aazealh

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Re: The Thread of Zelda
« Reply #282 on: December 18, 2013, 04:56:07 PM »
Hyrule Warriors was announced. Basically like Dynasty Warriors.

Excuse me while I finish cleaning up the jizz from the floor after having seen the trailer.

Uh... This isn't really what I want from the series. I guess they felt like they needed to put that Skyward Sword motion fighting to better use?

Offline Slime_Beherit

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Re: The Thread of Zelda
« Reply #283 on: December 18, 2013, 05:07:54 PM »
Uh... This isn't really what I want from the series. I guess they felt like they needed to put that Skyward Sword motion fighting to better use?

I dunno, with the amount of slashing that is needed in these games, I doubt they would go down the motion control road. Unless it's part of Nintendo's new WiiU marketing push. "Hyrule Histeria, game for Nintendo's Wii gamepad handheld, Linked with recent strings of arm injuries" ...at least you made the news Nintendo.

Offline Griffith

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Re: The Thread of Zelda
« Reply #284 on: December 18, 2013, 05:34:33 PM »
Nintendo is really throwing around their IP's all over the place. It doesn't really bother me that mario stuff pops up in other games, but Zelda is more sacred. I feel this will cheapen the franchise, moreso than Skyward Sword that is...

For its shortcomings, it didn't exactly damage the franchise's reputation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Legend_of_Zelda:_Skyward_Sword#Reception

Objectively speaking, Skyward Sword is still an excellent and innovative game, and one of the five truly unique Zelda games in existence (LoZ, AoL, OoT, PH, SS). But, we hold new Zelda games to the standard of A Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time; the latter arguably the best game ever and the former arguably the best Zelda game ever (don't think too much about that =). It's not even enough that new one's reach the standard of or technically exceed those games, we want them to elevate the genre and medium to the same degree all over again, when that may not even be currently possible, or its a letdown. I'm admittedly as guilty of this as anybody. I don't just play the latest Zelda title for fun, I'm looking for the new BEST ZELDA/GAME EVER!

Unless it's part of Nintendo's new WiiU marketing push. "Hyrule Histeria, game for Nintendo's Wii gamepad handheld, Linked with recent strings of arm injuries" ...at least you made the news Nintendo.

In the same vein, their marketing push could be that they have the top selling home and handheld consoles on the market, and it's not even close.

Offline Slime_Beherit

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Re: The Thread of Zelda
« Reply #285 on: December 18, 2013, 05:51:41 PM »
I guess I just wasn't enamored by the combat. There wasn't much variety to it, it slowed down the combat, it didn't always work, all in all it was just novel. The control scheme might have been innovative, but it wasn't executed as well as I would have hoped. With that aside, the rest of the game left much to be desired (i'm looking at you overworld, and theres not much to look at). It was one of the weakest zelda's for me, only contested by Spirit Tracks. Now that I think of it, if i had to replay one, i would rather play ST.

Offline Griffith

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Re: The Thread of Zelda
« Reply #286 on: December 18, 2013, 08:58:17 PM »
I guess I just wasn't enamored by the combat. There wasn't much variety to it, it slowed down the combat, it didn't always work, all in all it was just novel. The control scheme might have been innovative, but it wasn't executed as well as I would have hoped.

That's undeniably the the make or break point of the game. If you liked the controls it's the most immersive and advanced controlling Zelda there is, if you don't... well, story and intangibles aren't going to make up for it or anything. I never really had a problem with the controls though, practically or ideologically, and it does make me not so humbly wonder how much the extra demand on the users' physical skills is a factor. Basically, like any coordinated physical activity, some people might just suck at it; thus, the strong disagreement over whether the controls are effective or not.

With that aside, the rest of the game left much to be desired (i'm looking at you overworld, and theres not much to look at).

Yeah, but we tend to focus on what's not there instead of appreciating what is and why they were perhaps emphasizing that instead. For example, the town and side characters and quests and were all more enjoyable to me than in recent Zeldas where they seemed perfunctory to annoying depending on their necessity (I also liked the more complex but streamlined system of item upgrading and one stop shopping). Perhaps they intentionally put a more singular focus on those elements and for me it paid off. Same with the combat, I felt like it was more involved, particularly compared to recent games where Link was just a pure killing machine that mowed everything down in one or two button taps (in this one you could at least get into what felt like a real fight). As a matter of fact, I just found the gameplay experience  to be more creative and fun overall, expectations of grandeur aside (it was only in hindsight I needed or wanted MORE in that department). After the ambition of Twilight Princess to seemingly incorporate and fuse everything in the Zelda mythos into one epic do-it-all Zelda, that aspect might have seemed lacking in this game, but it was sure a lot more fun and original to me while it lasted.

It was one of the weakest zelda's for me, only contested by Spirit Tracks. Now that I think of it, if i had to replay one, i would rather play ST.

I'm continuing my replay of Skyward Sword hero mode (in HD!) right now to see how it stacks up to my previous impressions. I'm feeling a lot more receptive to the world and story elements this time around because I'm unburdened by my expectations of the best Zelda ever (though they did nothing at the time to temper those). It's simple but at least it's something different and more primal and mythological. Plus, I love that they incorporated ancient futuristic tech and the overall weirdness of the world. As for Spirit Tracks, I still haven't given it a spin. Now I'm really curious though; can it be as bad as everyone says? =)

Offline Walter

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Re: The Thread of Zelda
« Reply #287 on: December 18, 2013, 09:21:43 PM »
As for Spirit Tracks, I still haven't given it a spin. Now I'm really curious though; can it be as bad as everyone says? =)
SWEET JESUS YES. KILL ME.

:magni: CHOO CHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline jackson_hurley

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Re: The Thread of Zelda
« Reply #288 on: December 18, 2013, 09:25:45 PM »
SWEET JESUS YES. KILL ME.

:magni: CHOO CHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

yeah I get what you mean, I'm actually trying to finish it for the second time ( I just abandoned the first time).
It was way more fun to ride the boat in phantom hour glass than that stupid train that takes forever (yeah I know there's shortcuts but still is a pain)

Offline Walter

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Re: The Thread of Zelda
« Reply #289 on: December 18, 2013, 10:07:58 PM »
Hyrule Warriors was announced. Basically like Dynasty Warriors.

Excuse me while I finish cleaning up the jizz from the floor after having seen the trailer.
Looks pretty cool to me! Not a fan of the Dynasty Warriors franchise, but then again I  haven't really played one of them in a decade...

What I see in the trailer looks fun--a good appetizer for the next big Zelda title.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Johnstantine

Re: The Thread of Zelda
« Reply #290 on: December 19, 2013, 01:17:55 AM »
yeah I get what you mean, I'm actually trying to finish it for the second time ( I just abandoned the first time).
It was way more fun to ride the boat in phantom hour glass than that stupid train that takes forever (yeah I know there's shortcuts but still is a pain)

I tried to play those two, but they were awful.

Offline Griffith

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Re: The Thread of Zelda
« Reply #291 on: December 24, 2013, 07:39:10 AM »
I tried to play those two, but they were awful.

I can't speak for Spirit Tracks but I enjoyed Phantom Hourglass until I had to go back to the sea god temple or whatever one too many times. It certainly wasn't "awful" by any objective measure. Zelda games are all pretty darn good well done if nothing else, but they seem to be received in only the most hyperbolic terms. Skyward Sword is either the best in the series or the most disappointing depending on who you ask. From my current replay I'm more inclined to agree with the former, I actually think everyone's complaints, mine included, were off base and missing the point, and I'm not just talking about the controls any more. The environments aren't so limited when you consider all there is to do in each, and it gives you a bit of Wind Waker and Ocarina style overworlds in a truly fantastical setting where everything is basically larger than life; this game is just fun if you allow yourself to get swept up in it (though I still haven't reached the tad tones portion yet =). Basically, if it weren't the latest home console Zelda it would be hailed as a charming Zelda killer.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: The Thread of Zelda
« Reply #292 on: December 24, 2013, 11:35:52 AM »
Skyward Sword is either the best in the series or the most disappointing depending on who you ask.

Eh, I think there's both good (motion controls, Zelda + side characters, some levels, "cool twist" with the villain) and bad (hand-holding, story was lacking in some regards, flying was lacking compared to sea travel in WW, lack of charm in some levels (and revisiting them often felt like filler), Fi not very charming to me compared to Midna) in it.

Offline Griffith

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Re: The Thread of Zelda
« Reply #293 on: December 24, 2013, 09:29:36 PM »
Sorry for the big reply, I was just bursting to write a love note to this game and you took the bait. =)

Eh, I think there's both good (motion controls, Zelda + side characters, some levels, "cool twist" with the villain) and bad (hand-holding, story was lacking in some regards, flying was lacking compared to sea travel in WW, lack of charm in some levels (and revisiting them often felt like filler), Fi not very charming to me compared to Midna) in it.

It's certainly got its own flaws, but to my point a lot of the "bad" is in comparison to the best of previous games, which are some of the best games ever, so we're already splitting hairs, and just because an element isn't obviously better compared to a previous title doesn't mean it isn't good in its own right.

Air travel wasn't as expansive or meaningful as the sea travel in Wind Waker, but I don't think it's supposed to be a mechanic on the same level, which was basically the backbone of WW's unique world (and people complained it was too much anyway). Reverse the comparison and look at how much larger and superior the land exploration portions are in Skyward Sword while still having a touch of that whimsical travel (plus, fast travel was never more organic).

As for the land environments, people get hung up on there technically only being three, but that's not exactly fair because, speaking of expansive, they're more so than maybe any single environment in the previous games, with all sorts of variation within (you could think of it like three or four small overworld environments). Lanayru Desert especially comes to mind. It's not really just the desert area, it's its own little world. Each area practically doubles in size the second time you visit too, so it's not really just going back to the same three environments (as for the areas you do revisit or are reused, I didn't think it was necessarily any more filler than when you had to revisit areas in Zelda 3 or OoT). Compare that to the numerous but relatively empty one-and-done locales of Twilight Princess. I think it's a judgement call which style you prefer, and I certainly would like the best of all worlds (lots of huge, varied, deep environments), but my point is Skyward Sword isn't actually so lacking in that regard. Compared to previous titles, both in terms of overworld travel and on the ground exploring, it's actually not a bad trade off and adds a nice balance between the two (the ultimate would be a game with a full continent of Hyrule AND a Wind Waker style ocean =).

I also don't think it's exactly fair comparing the game's much maligned support character with one that was arguably the main character of a previous title (which I ultimately wasn't too happy about by the way; Midna is a disrespectful usurper =). I actually don't mind Fi too. I like that she is some weird spiritual android abstract in my sword. Actually, I like all the anachronistic elements in the game (ancient robots!). I also don't mind her gimmick itself (she's basically Bones), and I like that she has all sorts of practical functions and analysis to offer. Sure, I almost never use them, but it's cool that they're there if I want to see how I rate against certain enemies and as far as actual support goes, she's the truest of support characters.

As for the story elements, it's as good as any Zelda depending on your tastes, and arguably better. Zelda's character, role and relationship to Link being the most prominent example, but I also happen to like all the larger than life mythology. Zelda isn't just a "princess," she's the Goddess, Link is her chosen champion as far as both her roles are concerned, the master sword has a voice and is imbued with the power of the gods, the world is ancient, primitive and unexplored, and the villains are evil incarnate that Ganon will only later represent. So, I like all the the statues, temples, ruins, songs, flames, flying, and dragons, even if it's all kind of puerile (as mythology can be). I just find it quite charming, free spirited and enjoyable.

Anyway, those are a couple of examples where I think it's more our perception than reality holding certain elements back, or us holding ourselves back from embracing them. I had the exact same reactions initially because I'm always judging the latest Zelda on the scale of greatest Zelda, but again, we might not appreciate what we have because of that (I'm fine with having complaints or it just not being one's cup of tea, but it's ridiculous that anybody would think it's a below average game or something). My only caveat to this impassioned avocation is that I resumed play at the Lanayru Mining Facility and am now at the Sand Sea, basically the meat of the game (and minimal hand holding). We'll see if I feel differently by the time I reach the tad tones, but I just felt like it's worth thinking differently about the game and some of the elements some might see as lesser than previous incarnations.

Offline Dar Klink

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Re: The Thread of Zelda
« Reply #294 on: December 26, 2013, 10:50:07 AM »
I got a 3DS for Christmas! A Zelda XL one, which comes with the game. Awesome as that is, the eShop has been down all day, so I haven't been able to download it yet. I haven't spoiled myself too much on it, so for better or worse I'm pretty excited to play it.

Offline Walter

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Re: The Thread of Zelda
« Reply #295 on: April 14, 2014, 10:28:51 AM »
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Dar Klink

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Re: The Thread of Zelda
« Reply #296 on: April 14, 2014, 07:25:11 PM »
Calling all Windwaker fans: http://www.tomopop.com/nendoroid-link-is-ready-for-a-pre-order-adventure-34149.phtml
AAAH I really wish I could get this. I usually don't like the nendoroid line of figures but it fits WW Link so perfectly.

Offline Griffith

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Re: The Thread of Zelda
« Reply #297 on: June 10, 2014, 05:12:30 PM »
http://kotaku.com/the-new-zelda-is-open-world-looks-absolutely-incredibl-1588673841

http://kotaku.com/nintendo-that-amazing-zelda-footage-was-in-engine-1588740315

Quote
It looks like a cross between Wind Waker and Skyrim.

No doubt it's better than Zelda 3 and OoT put together.


Offline Aazealh

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Re: The Thread of Zelda
« Reply #298 on: June 10, 2014, 05:28:24 PM »
http://kotaku.com/the-new-zelda-is-open-world-looks-absolutely-incredibl-1588673841

http://kotaku.com/nintendo-that-amazing-zelda-footage-was-in-engine-1588740315

It seems they've got the right idea at least, though I'm not sure I like that robot-insect-tank enemy. Either way they're caught my interest.

Offline Tama

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Re: The Thread of Zelda
« Reply #299 on: June 10, 2014, 07:00:22 PM »
Just watched the conference, I also love the big open world they plan on making, it looks beautiful. Link looks like a cross between Wind Waker and the Skyward Sword versions.