Watchmen

Walter · March 16, 2009

The Dark Knight and Watchmen really shouldn't be compared, I don't think.

Griffith · March 16, 2009

Ramen4ever · March 16, 2009

Griffith said:
http://www.skullknight.net/griffith/watchshit.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NMzepSePD4
I wish I knew video editing because then I would have put Watchmen clips in there.

Aazealh · March 16, 2009

Walter said:
Let me give you a prime example of the problem. Here's a 1.5 minute clip of the movie, a fight scene in a jail. http://www.aintitcool.com/?q=node/40200 Now, click here for the comic's rendition. Note how much Snyder milked this one panel, and not only that, changed the way the scene is portrayed. It's not flashy moves or over-the-top. It's just a fucking kung-fu chop from Nite Owl.

Very true. The opening sequence with the fight between The Comedian and Ozy perfectly illustrates that as well. It's drawn out and felt awkward to me (throwing kitchen knives...). Both characters are also depicted a little too powerful to me, punching through the furniture like it's cardboard. And it hints at Ozy being the culprit right away.

brinco · March 16, 2009

First of all, I haven't seen the movie and I love the GN so I probably biased. But about the No squid ending, I don't really understand how would be possible that the USSR (and the other attacked countries) don't nuke the US, and unleash a full nuclear war, after Doctor Manhattan attacked them.

I mean, Doctor Manhattan should be identified with USA like McDonald's, Coca-Cola, Superman or something like that. Even if attacked NY, and with the world at the brink of a nuclear war, I don't think possible that the rest of the world just unite with the US like nothing happened to them.

That's why the Squid ending was so important, because it was an external force that attacked, a force that couldn't be associated with no one.

royoak · March 16, 2009

I haven't seen the movie yet and I'm not planning to anymore. I will check out the Director's Cut including TotBF and deleted scenes though.
I've just finished watching the Motion Comic. Pretty neat. The 'effects' aren't too dominant and the narrator's voice is OK too IMO. But it boils down to looking at panels while somebody is reading the text to you, rather unnecessary.

Vampire_Hunter_Bob · March 16, 2009

royoak said:
TotBF

I have to ask. Why is anyone buying this? I'm sure by the time it's released every bit of meaning is going to be lost [seeing as how i'm guessing the news stand bits are not going to be in there].

Oburi · March 16, 2009

Vampire_Hunter_Bob said:
I have to ask. Why is anyone buying this? I'm sure by the time it's released every bit of meaning is going to be lost [seeing as how i'm guessing the news stand bits are not going to be in there].

I bet they will. They might even edit in the anime they made depicting the comic within the comic.

Aazealh · March 16, 2009

Oburi said:
I bet they will. They might even edit in the anime they made depicting the comic within the comic.

Look at what Bob was quoting. TotBF = Tales of the Black Freighter = comic within the comic.

Griffith · March 16, 2009

A "Tales of the Black Freighter" anime is so hysterically ironic it's almost not anymore. Maybe this is whole thing is supposed to be some sort fucked up avant-garde postmodern real life Watchmen recreation, and the movie itself is the squid. :ganishka:

royoak · March 16, 2009

Vampire_Hunter_Bob said:
I have to ask. Why is anyone buying this? I'm sure by the time it's released every bit of meaning is going to be lost [seeing as how i'm guessing the news stand bits are not going to be in there].

That is pretty much a given. But right now I'm concerned about something else.

Zack: No. The Black Freighter version of the movie, which we call the final cut or the ultimate cut – it has a marketed name that I don’t know exactly what it is. That version of the movie, because when we were up there we physically shot the in’s and out’s, scenes at the newsstand that go into the movie. There’s like scenes where our characters pass the newsstand and then we pick up action at the newsstand and it gets us into the Black Freighter….with shots that go into it and it comes to life and you follow the Black Freighter story and then come back into the movie. That version of the movie is the director’s cut with the Black Freighter intercut. That version sort of traces the structure of the Black Freighter that's integrated into the comic book… So that version is the 3 hour and 25 minute version. So you have all those in’s and out’s…but the director’s cut includes the Hollis death stuff, that’s just a lot more connective tissue…it’s hard for me to even remember exactly what’s in it. But it’s just a lot more.

So the DC does include Hollis' death but no Black Freighter whereas the UC has no Hollis?
Talk about confusing.

What do you say Mr. Moore?

"They take an idea, bowdlerize it, blow it up, make it infantile and spend $100 million to give people a brief escape from their boring and often demeaning lives at work. It's obscene and it's offensive. This is not the culture I signed up for. I'm sure I sound like Bobby Fischer talking about chess "

Vampire_Hunter_Bob · March 16, 2009

I still don't understand why they are even mentioning the Black Freighter or even including the story for it. At this point there is no point to having it because they left out the squid. Also, why even bother with Hollis either? He never died in the movie; Rorschach’s death replaces his in the movie.

Ramen4ever · March 16, 2009

Vampire_Hunter_Bob said:
He never died in the movie; Rorschach’s death replaces his in the movie.

Replaces? what are you talking about?

They're both supposed to die. Rorschach because he can not betray what he believes in. And Hollis because of ignorance. The gang mistake him for the Night Owl II. Rorschach's death doesn't replace anything. I was upset at Hollis not dieing at the hands of a drugged up gang. As that would have at least emphasized what the city is like.

Vampire_Hunter_Bob · March 16, 2009

Ramen4ever said:
Replaces? what are you talking about?

They're both supposed to die. Rorschach because he can not betray what he believes in. And Hollis because of ignorance. The gang mistake him for the Night Owl II. Rorschach's death doesn't replace anything. I was upset at Hollis not dieing at the hands of a drugged up gang. As that would have at least emphasized what the city is like.

When did Hollis die in the watchmen movie? Where was Night Owl's big change of heart after Hollis died? Care to tell when this happens IN THE FILM?

Ramen4ever · March 16, 2009

Vampire_Hunter_Bob said:
When did Hollis die in the watchmen movie? Where was Night Owl's big change of heart after Hollis died? Care to tell when this happens IN THE FILM?

He most likely died with the other people in the city in the film.

royoak · March 16, 2009

Vampire_Hunter_Bob said:
I still don't understand why they are even mentioning the Black Freighter or even including the story for it. At this point there is no point to having it because they left out the squid. Also, why even bother with Hollis either? He never died in the movie; Rorschach’s death replaces his in the movie.

Because Snyder wants to stay as close as possible to the comic. :troll:

Hmm, the Black Freighter is more than 'Hey, colourful squid coming up'. Of course, I doubt that the Anime included in the movie will work like a contrapoint or allegory, like it does in the comic, but more like a clumsy Monty Python moment (and now to s.th. completely different) - kinda ironic.
~~Rorschach's death replaces Hollis'? You mean because of Nite Owl's spaz attack?~~

Vampire_Hunter_Bob said:
When did Hollis die in the watchmen movie? Where was Night Owl's big change of heart after Hollis died? Care to tell when this happens IN THE FILM?

The bar scene with Rorschach and Nite Owl was cut with Hollis' death because it had no point without it.
http://scifiwire.com/2009/02/what-had-to-be-cut-at-the-last-minute-to-keep-watchmen-watchable.php

Cutting that scene, a brutal beating, also necessitated cutting a companion scene in a bar involving Rorschach (Jackie Earle Haley) and Dan Dreiberg/Nite Owl II (Patrick Wilson). "They see on the TV [that] Hollis Mason died," Snyder said. "And so then, you know, Dan goes and beats up the Top Knot that's in the bar, and, like, knocks the teeth out, and it's really violent and cool."

Vampire_Hunter_Bob · March 16, 2009

royoak said:
~~Rorschach's death replaces Hollis'? You mean because of Nite Owl's spaz attack?~~

Yeah seeing how I'm not going to watch the DC this is the only version I'll ever see. So yes that is the death replacing Hollis'.

The bar scene with Rorschach and Nite Owl was cut with Hollis' death because it had no point without it.

Ahh great stuff. Well didn't know about that other bs about it being in the dc, but oh well! :schierke:

Walter · March 16, 2009

royoak said:
The bar scene with Rorschach and Nite Owl was cut with Hollis' death because it had no point without it.

Huh? The bar scene is in the movie, broken glass and all. What's cut is Nite Owl's exchange with the "top knot" guy, which is how he finds out Hollis is dead. He then loses control and nearly brutalizes the guy, who is likely innocent. It shows how super heroes have the propensity to abuse their authority when they think they're in the right. It's not pointless.

royoak · March 16, 2009

Walter said:
Huh? The bar scene is in the movie, broken glass and all. What's cut is Nite Owl's exchange with the "top knot" guy, which is how he finds out Hollis is dead. He then loses control and nearly brutalizes the guy, who is likely innocent. It shows how super heroes have the propensity to abuse their authority when they think they're in the right. It's not pointless.

Ah OK, I stand corrected. As mentioned before I haven't/won't see/n the movie and I agree that the scene isn't pointless at all, I merely quoted Snyder.

Griffith · March 16, 2009

"They see on the TV [that] Hollis Mason died," Snyder said. "And so then, you know, Dan goes and beats up the Top Knot that's in the bar, and, like, knocks the teeth out, and it's really violent and cool."

With such perspective, he was obviously the "visionary director" to take on one of the most cerebral graphic novels ever made. Well, it worked, I really feel like we're in a dystopian alternate reality where Zack Snyder was made director of Watchmen.

Xem · March 20, 2009

I don't really see what the big deal is. I just went and saw it last night and overall I thought the film was pretty good. Nothing amazing, but pretty good. I didn't feel like the slo-mo was overdone, I was really intrigued by all the characters, with the exception of Spectre. Dr. Manhattan's development was fascinating on a number of levels. Honestly I just couldn't get into the whole love story at all, and since that was a pretty major focal point, it was all pretty lost on me. I thought the ending was actually really good, no real complaints there whatsoever.

Overall the movie had more than enough story, character development, and stimulating cinematography to keep me interested. I'd give it a 7/10.

Aazealh · March 21, 2009

Deci said:
I don't really see what the big deal is. I just went and saw it last night and overall I thought the film was pretty good.

Don't worry, it's Ok to have low standards. :serpico:

Now maybe if you knew the original you could understand why people are complaining about the adaptation. Maybe.

Bekul · March 21, 2009

Deci said:
I thought the film was pretty good. Nothing amazing, but pretty good.... Honestly I just couldn't get into the whole love story at all, and since that was a pretty major focal point, it was all pretty lost on me.... I'd give it a 7/10.

Yeah, that's the key. "Pretty good. Nothing amazing. 7/10" is brutal damnation, when you look at the source material. Imagine Lord of the Rings, for example, done by Uwe Boll. Or Beserk remade in the style of Shrek - alright, so it wasn't /that/ bad, but really, 7/10? For Watchmen? That's just damning.

Xem · March 21, 2009

Bekul said:
Yeah, that's the key. "Pretty good. Nothing amazing. 7/10" is brutal damnation, when you look at the source material. Imagine Lord of the Rings, for example, done by Uwe Boll. Or Beserk remade in the style of Shrek - alright, so it wasn't /that/ bad, but really, 7/10? For Watchmen? That's just damning.

Yeah point taken.

I was talking to my friend last night who's read everything Alan Moore's ever done (he actually really liked the Watchmen movie surprisingly), he was explaining to me why Alan Moore refuses to ever watch any of the movies done on his works and it kinda made sense to me. If I was an artist as talented as Moore I wouldn't want Hollywood getting anywhere near my works either, but to not even watch them? I think that's generalizing Hollywood a little too much, I mean, not everything that comes out is trash. To hate something just to prove a point seems a little silly to me. But who am I to judge? I have no basis to do so really. I should be glad Alan Moore is the way he is, otherwise we wouldn't have his ingenious stories floating about.

Don't worry, it's Ok to have low standards.

It's surprisingly refreshing actually. I pretty much expect every movie I watch to suck, so if it's even the slightest bit entertaining then I have a good time. You should try it. :slan:

Now maybe if you knew the original you could understand why people are complaining about the adaptation. Maybe.

That's just it. I do understand. But I mean c'mon, even if it's no where near as good as the source material, it was still pretty good.

Aazealh · March 22, 2009

Deci said:
he was explaining to me why Alan Moore refuses to ever watch any of the movies done on his works and it kinda made sense to me.

Because he's been fucked over and over and has had enough? Makes sense to me too.

Deci said:
That's just it. I do understand.

That's not reflected in your posts.

Deci said:
But I mean c'mon, even if it's no where near as good as the source material, it was still pretty good.

Depends on who you ask.

Watchmen

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