Poll

Which one will be the first to go?

Grunbeld
28 (57.1%)
Locus
7 (14.3%)
Irvine
4 (8.2%)
Rakshas
3 (6.1%)
Zodd
1 (2%)
Two or more will die at once.
6 (12.2%)

Total Members Voted: 46

Author Topic: Who will be the first to die among Griffith's lieutenants?  (Read 7723 times)

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Offline Jarome

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Re: Who will be the first to die among Griffith's lieutenants?
« Reply #25 on: April 03, 2009, 11:06:13 PM »
I'm also surprised that most people seem to assume that Guts or one of his new companions will be the one's killing them, who's to say they won't die by another means?
Skullknight will take Zodd's life, then he'll die by killing Void!  :badbone:

Quote from: Walter
Again, you seem to be forgetting things that have already happened... Where was Grunbeld's superior strength and intelligence when he underestimated Guts and nearly got himself killed?
Yes and it is at that very point where Guts became more than just a human swordman, let's just say that the berserker armor is very capable of killing apostle lieutenants. I don't believe they'll (Grunbeld first) ever underestimate him anymore  :chomp:
If history is to change, let it change!
If the world is to be destroyed, so be it!
If my fate is to be destroyed... I must simply laugh!!

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Offline Black_Devil

Re: Who will be the first to die among Griffith's lieutenants?
« Reply #26 on: April 04, 2009, 03:45:49 AM »
Zodd. Just because he's had the longest tenure, I'd see him dying before any of the other ones, but of course this could also work in his favor as him being the last one to die.  I think either Guts or SK will end Zodd's legend.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Who will be the first to die among Griffith's lieutenants?
« Reply #27 on: April 04, 2009, 07:33:40 AM »
I'm surprised Grunbeld is winning this, he seems like one of the most powerful apostles we've ever seen. Is it because Guts has shown he's capable of hurting him?

The others are also among the most powerful apostles we've ever seen. In fact, putting Ganishka aside, the lot of them ARE the most powerful apostles, period. The reason people choose Grunbeld is because he's the one we've seen the most among the new guys and that he's already got a bit of a personal history with Guts.

Im also surprised that most people seem to assume that Guts or one of his new companions will be the one's killing them, who's to say they won't die by another means?

Maybe that's because Guts is the protagonist of the story.

Yes and it is at that very point where Guts became more than just a human swordman, let's just say that the berserker armor is very capable of killing apostle lieutenants. I don't believe they'll (Grunbeld first) ever underestimate him anymore  :chomp:

It's not like Guts wasn't in a dire state at the time because of his encounter with Slan. His non-fight (he mostly just took hits) before donning the armor wasn't representative of his abilities. And the armor itself only enhances its wearer. Don't misrepresent things.

Offline BLG

Re: Who will be the first to die among Griffith's lieutenants?
« Reply #28 on: April 04, 2009, 08:07:15 AM »
I went with Rakshas on this one, just because I think Miura hasn't been focusing on him too much. Surely there is time for more character development, but ol' Rakshas just seems like a one trick pony to me. He's got to go soon, and Guts and co. will do the deed.

I don't understand how anybody would vote for Zodd. I think he'll almost surely be the last one standing. There has to be an ultimate :zodd: vs. :SK: battle and I'm rooting for Mr. Bones!

Offline Black_Devil

Re: Who will be the first to die among Griffith's lieutenants?
« Reply #29 on: April 04, 2009, 02:28:11 PM »
BLG: Just Zodd's always fighting lifestyle(though admittedly he's toned it down since joining Griffith) would lead me to believe he'd die first, but upon second thought, he's no longer the wandering warrior constantly seeking battles, so maybe not.

Offline Death May Die

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Re: Who will be the first to die among Griffith's lieutenants?
« Reply #30 on: April 06, 2009, 05:07:18 AM »
I like how the Manga is kinda almost allowing us to root, or engage with characters in the NEW band of the hawk. But knowing this, some of these guys are going to die, and one or two of their deaths are going to be kinda sad. We might even be locked in between a battle with someone like Irvine and Guts. Where you don't want to see either of them really die. So assuming that they all die, its pretty much the eclipse part 2...well 3 if you count the recantation stuff. The second time the hawk has fallen.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Who will be the first to die among Griffith's lieutenants?
« Reply #31 on: April 06, 2009, 01:23:52 PM »
But knowing this, some of these guys are going to die, and one or two of their deaths are going to be kinda sad.

Well they could all die, and while I'm not sure it'll be sad per se, they all have the potential for some pretty cool last moments. Cool stuff in perspective. :guts:

We might even be locked in between a battle with someone like Irvine and Guts. Where you don't want to see either of them really die.

Honestly I'd take Guts over Irvine any day. Sure, Irvine has been portrayed as a nice guy in several occasions and I'm not particularly looking forward to his death, but he's still a monster in the end.

So assuming that they all die, its pretty much the eclipse part 2...well 3 if you count the recantation stuff. The second time the hawk has fallen.

I take it you mean reincarnation, not recantation. And it should just be "incarnation". Anyway, I can't agree with you there. The people around Griffith now are apostles. What happened during the Occultation ceremony that saw Femto's rise was that apostles massacred Griffith's betrayed soldiers. It's hardly the same thing than members of the current Band of the Falcon being attacked and killed in combat against human opponents.

Offline Jarome

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Re: Who will be the first to die among Griffith's lieutenants?
« Reply #32 on: April 06, 2009, 04:40:44 PM »
Honestly I'd take Guts over Irvine any day. Sure, Irvine has been portrayed as a nice guy in several occasions and I'm not particularly looking forward to his death, but he's still a monster in the end.
Irvine's death would certainly make me sad :judo:

But Locus & Irvine both stand in the "nice guys" category, Rashkas, Grunbeld & Zodd tend to be a little more in the "evil" one... I wonder if Miura really wants to keep his antagonists categorized this way.
If history is to change, let it change!
If the world is to be destroyed, so be it!
If my fate is to be destroyed... I must simply laugh!!

- Magus, Chrono Trigger

Offline Oburi

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Re: Who will be the first to die among Griffith's lieutenants?
« Reply #33 on: April 06, 2009, 05:12:49 PM »
Irvine's death would certainly make me sad :judo:

But Locus & Irvine both stand in the "nice guys" category, Rashkas, Grunbeld & Zodd tend to be a little more in the "evil" one... I wonder if Miura really wants to keep his antagonists categorized this way.

I wouldn't even say they are nice at all. Some might have more of a badass attitude than others but that doesn't make anyone "nice".  Don't forget who and what they are fighting for. And Griffith himself is a great example of this. He seems reaaaally nice....but he's a monster too, and I won't be sad to see any of them go, especially when it comes down to them fighting Guts. I hope he rips their fucking heads off!

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Who will be the first to die among Griffith's lieutenants?
« Reply #34 on: April 06, 2009, 05:17:26 PM »
But Locus & Irvine both stand in the "nice guys" category, Rashkas, Grunbeld & Zodd tend to be a little more in the "evil" one... I wonder if Miura really wants to keep his antagonists categorized this way.

I wouldn't describe Locus as being all that nice, really... If you pay attention to some of what he says, he's actually pretty sinister at times (e.g. the end of episode 291), more so than Grunbeld, Rakshas or even Zodd. They all have good sides, yet they're all monsters, and I don't think they're meant to be categorized like you just did.

Offline Walter

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Re: Who will be the first to die among Griffith's lieutenants?
« Reply #35 on: April 06, 2009, 05:31:59 PM »
And really, don't forget how these "nice guys" became apostles.  It's hard to forgive something like that...
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Death May Die

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Re: Who will be the first to die among Griffith's lieutenants?
« Reply #36 on: April 06, 2009, 06:23:25 PM »
Yeah, but I get the feeling there is going to be a lot of suffering. Guts takes a lot of pleasure in killing apostles if it gets him one step closer to Griffith. I haven't seen really anything that the "Nicer" apostles have done that is horrorable (yet) to deserve a slow painful death. But hopefully some "backstory" comes in to play, allowing you to see that these guys, maybe who were once unfortunate victims chose the darker side to enhance their beings to over come the odds. If unfortunate at all.

Offline Drakull

Re: Who will be the first to die among Griffith's lieutenants?
« Reply #37 on: April 06, 2009, 06:27:48 PM »
For me the first to die by Guts' sword will be Grunbeld, simply because Guts will get revenge on their first fight. :) Zodd is too important too die quickly.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Who will be the first to die among Griffith's lieutenants?
« Reply #38 on: April 06, 2009, 09:58:07 PM »
Guts takes a lot of pleasure in killing apostles if it gets him one step closer to Griffith.

Does he now? He hates them, but I wouldn't say that killing them gives him "a lot of pleasure". Even during his Black Swordsman days his victories often had a bitter taste (e.g. the Count, Rochine). Same thing with getting closer to Griffith, I'm pretty sure he'd prefer to get to him directly without fighting a horde of henchmen first.

I haven't seen really anything that the "Nicer" apostles have done that is horrorable (yet) to deserve a slow painful death. But hopefully some "backstory" comes in to play, allowing you to see that these guys, maybe who were once unfortunate victims chose the darker side to enhance their beings to over come the odds. If unfortunate at all.

Killing an old lady (Flora)? We haven't seen them eating or torturing people, but don't go thinking that means they aren't evil.

Offline TheBranded1

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Re: Who will be the first to die among Griffith's lieutenants?
« Reply #39 on: April 06, 2009, 10:06:12 PM »
I haven't seen really anything that the "Nicer" apostles have done that is horrorable (yet)

Sacrificing your most precious somebody it's horrible enough for me.

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Re: Who will be the first to die among Griffith's lieutenants?
« Reply #40 on: April 08, 2009, 06:17:27 AM »
And really, don't forget how these "nice guys" became apostles.  It's hard to forgive something like that...

Which really makes me wonder, who did Irvine sacrifice? Perhaps a hunting pet? He's portrayed as quite the loner.... maybe that's part of what makes him so likable....

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Who will be the first to die among Griffith's lieutenants?
« Reply #41 on: April 08, 2009, 07:55:30 AM »
Which really makes me wonder, who did Irvine sacrifice? Perhaps a hunting pet? He's portrayed as quite the loner.... maybe that's part of what makes him so likable....

He might have had someone before. Or, considering his current state, maybe he sacrificed a part of himself (his eyes for example). There's a precedent for it (beherit-apostle), though it was a very special case.

Offline Bekul

Re: Who will be the first to die among Griffith's lieutenants?
« Reply #42 on: April 08, 2009, 08:34:23 AM »
Hm, excellent observation about Irvine's possible sacrifice - eyes are among the most important tools of a hunter - for an archer, even more so. At risk of derailing the thread, a similar possibility could be that the loss of his eyes could have been what triggered his use of a Beherit.


Offline Aazealh

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Re: Who will be the first to die among Griffith's lieutenants?
« Reply #43 on: April 08, 2009, 12:50:24 PM »
a similar possibility could be that the loss of his eyes could have been what triggered his use of a Beherit.

Indeed, that would have certainly been a good reason for him to become an apostle.