Episode 303

Marik said:

God Hand gather where evil lies

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What Walter said is that they "dwell in places where evil gathers", not that they "gather in places where evil lies".

Marik said:

It is A possibility. So, as I said they CAN appear, but I'm not that sure.

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Well Ok but no one is sure, you know. Walter himself said it was just a random thought he had.

Aazealh said:

Well Ok but no one is sure, you know. Walter himself said it was just a random thought he had.

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Yes I know, and that's why I expressed some doubt. To debate about, that's it.

The scene where skully is raising his sword to slash Femto, is Femto grinning? As if aware? I can't tell its a bit dark on that side shot of him.

Death May Die said:

The scene where skully is raising his sword to slash Femto, is Femto grinning? As if aware? I can't tell its a bit dark on that side shot of him.

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He's not grinning. You don't see much, but it doesn't look like he's showing any expression to me.

Honestly, any kind of introspection into Femto's so-called "reaction" is essentially a Rorschach test for each individual. It really gives nothing away.

Also, it looks to me like he's sad and about to cry because of the loss of his puppy as a child.

(link removed -Walter)

Nice episode. Quick and to the point.

Ganishka's backstory is truly awesome. I'm really glad Miura spent the time to go into it. The latter half of his story isn't much different at all from Julius Caesar's. He made war in other countries so much that his homeland grew into unrest, and he was killed by his son (Brutus is implied to be Caesar's illegitimate son). Possibly a direct correlation, or just that Caesar's story mirrors the consequences of many conquerors.

Another interesting part was we get a brief mention of the old king dying, civil war ensuing and him lying in wait for the right time to strike. This is what I was waiting for regarding the Bakiraka. It was during that unrest that the Bakiraka fell out of favor, from the old regime to the new.

Walter said:

Another interesting part was we get a brief mention of the old king dying, civil war ensuing and him lying in wait for the right time to strike. This is what I was waiting for regarding the Bakiraka. It was during that unrest that the Bakiraka fell out of favor, from the old regime to the new.

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In volume 27 Silat says it's been centuries, so actually I don't think it's related at all (unfortunately for us). Oh well, I'm sure the time will come eventually!

Damn ... I knew it was too good to be true. Oh well.

Hmm yeah, i suppose its unlikely that that regime change having an effect on the Bakiraka is unlikley (even though we don't know how long ago Ganishka became king/emperor...)

Its interesting that Ganishka sacrificed his son to become an apostle. Perhaps its a misconception on my part, but i thought that you generally had to sacrifice something close or important to you for the God Hand? If Ganishka was always out and about and conquering and such, why would his son, an object of fear for him, be important enough to sacrifice?

Malachai said:

Hmm yeah, i suppose its unlikely that that regime change having an effect on the Bakiraka is unlikley (even though we don't know how long ago Ganishka became king/emperor...)

Its interesting that Ganishka sacrificed his son to become an apostle. Perhaps its a misconception on my part, but i thought that you generally had to sacrifice something close or important to you for the God Hand? If Ganishka was always out and about and conquering and such, why would his son, an object of fear for him, be important enough to sacrifice?

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Ganishka was out and about partly because of his strong feeling towards his son and wife, his fear and I guess understanding of the circle of violence going on in the court. It also says something about how his son looked "exactly like him".
Whether he ever made a relationship with his son or not, he inarguably had massive feelings toward him of one sort or another.

Remember Roshine's father was not so close either, mostly her mother. So it goes to show that maybe a blood relation might be enough to be a sacrifice. NOt so sure though.

Besides all the many obvious questions that we all have right now concerning the outcome of Skull Knight's confrontation with Femto, for some reason I have a weird gut feeling that we may not see what happens next in 304, I don't know why but it seems like a point in which we may transition back to what's happening with Guts then see more after, it's a baseless feeling but nonetheless I still have a sneaking suspicion.

Malachai said:

(even though we don't know how long ago Ganishka became king/emperor...)

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Well considering the fact Daiba was already old when he first met Ganishka (basically looking exactly like he does in the present), I'm thinking it's not actually been extremely long. Unless Daiba's been living for centuries, of course.

Malachai said:

Its interesting that Ganishka sacrificed his son to become an apostle. Perhaps its a misconception on my part, but i thought that you generally had to sacrifice something close or important to you for the God Hand? If Ganishka was always out and about and conquering and such, why would his son, an object of fear for him, be important enough to sacrifice?

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Well he must have loved him in spite of everything. While his son feared him and despised him, Ganishka's feelings were mixed. He was afraid of the situation but that doesn't mean he didn't feel any genuine love toward his family.

Th3Branded0ne said:

Remember Roshine's father was not so close either, mostly her mother. So it goes to show that maybe a blood relation might be enough to be a sacrifice. NOt so sure though.

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What we see of their relationship isn't enough to assert that she wasn't close to him, even though he was violent at times. One can love his/her dad even if he's abusive; that's how children are. Look what her last thought was:

Hmm, i suppose i assumed that Daiba had found a way to negate the effects of aging because of his mystic sage qualities...
But upon thinking on it further, it seems possible to me that he figured out some way to stop aging in a way similar to Flora.
But then again, kushan magic and flora's magic appear to be different, so thats not necessarily the case.

Th3Branded0ne said:

Remember Roshine's father was not so close either, mostly her mother. So it goes to show that maybe a blood relation might be enough to be a sacrifice. NOt so sure though.

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But she sacrificed her mother too didn't she? (ep 103)

Upon rereading the earlier episodes (at the counts second ceremony) Slan does remark that the sacrifice has to be part of your heart. I guess if your heart is full of fear (Ganishka) or say hate (Roshine's father) they could be potential sacrifices.

Malachai said:

But upon thinking on it further, it seems possible to me that he figured out some way to stop aging in a way similar to Flora.
But then again, kushan magic and flora's magic appear to be different, so thats not necessarily the case.

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I won't disagree that Daiba could be very old myself (even though I doubt he's got much in common with Flora). He certainly looks the part. As for "Kushan magic", what we've seen of it was almost entirely based on apostles, whether it was Ganishka's own powers (which seem to be the direct result of his status as an apostle, from what the flashback shows) or the poor bunch of apostles sewn together to form the "Daka factory". So yeah, pretty different overall. I'm still very curious about the Kundalini's origins though.

Malachai said:

Upon rereading the earlier episodes (at the counts second ceremony) Slan does remark that the sacrifice has to be part of your heart. I guess if your heart is full of fear (Ganishka) or say hate (Roshine's father) they could be potential sacrifices.

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Don't take lines out of their context. What Slan says is that the sacrifice has to be someone very dear to you. So no, someone you fear or hate can't be a sacrifice. And Rochine didn't hate her father.

Honestly, I don't find Ganishka's sacrifice to be worthy. From what we know about Ganishka, he has little to no sympathy for the lives of others. For Miura to have him sacrifice a son he barely saw or cared little for seems like a scapegoat to me. He didn't see his son for years and never spoke to him so I highly doubt there was enough love or connection for it to be a genuine sacrifice.

Aazealh said:

As for "Kushan magic", what we've seen of it was almost entirely based on apostles, whether it was Ganishka's own powers (which seem to be the direct result of his status as an apostle, from what the flashback shows) or the poor bunch of apostles sewn together to form the "Daka factory".

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Really? So Daiba's floating trick and the dark aura around his body that Schierke sees when she's trapped in the armor were side effects of Ganishka's apostle 'magic'?
What about the Kushan sorceror's ability to control the familiars?

I guess i'm having trouble deciphering what exactly is kushan magic and what is actually just Ganishka's power?

Johnstantine said:

Honestly, I don't find Ganishka's sacrifice to be worthy.  From what we know about Ganishka, he has little to no sympathy for the lives of others. 

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Hahaha, are you a God Hand member? They seemed to think it was worthy. And that's all that really counts, unless you want to write a Letter to the Editor for the God Hand Gazzette expressing your opinion of unworthiness. I'm not sure Void would run the letter though...  

And anyway, "what we know about Ganishka" is mostly from his time as an apostle. Obviously he doesn't show sympathy for the lives of others after he's sacrificed his humanity.

For Miura to have him sacrifice a son he barely saw or cared little for seems like a scapegoat to me.  He didn't see his son for years and never spoke to him so I highly doubt there was enough love or connection for it to be a genuine sacrifice.

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I think the actual power of his feelings for his son are betrayed by his fear. Not only that, if he was so fearful of his son and wife, why not kill them off secretly? He had that option. Why let a successor live when Ganishka more than anyone knows the danger and the violence of succession.

Also, this may be pushing it a bit, but it's how I read it. As a child, Ganishka's relationships with his brother and mother were strained because of the bloodshed. Because of that, I'm sure there were a lot of repressed feelings of guilt and anguish that would have manifested in his relationship with his son. He kept him at a distance, but probably had great hopes as well because of his loss of innocence as a child. We'll never know though... because that chapter of the story is now over.

Malachai said:

Really? So Daiba's floating trick and the dark aura around his body that Schierke sees when she's trapped in the armor were side effects of Ganishka's apostle 'magic'?

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For the "floating trick" it's unknown. For the rest, yes. Don't you remember seeing him smoke Ganishka's fog? And what about Guts' comment that Daiba is related to an apostle when he first sees him? He could instantly feel it through the Brand.

Malachai said:

What about the Kushan sorceror's ability to control the familiars?

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They inhaled his fog as well, and when they died (the sorcerers and the familiars), little Ganishka fog figures escaped from their bodies. You'll also notice that some of the familiars (Tigers, Daka, Makara) featured Ganishka's signature teeth. It's all related to him.

Malachai said:

I guess i'm having trouble deciphering what exactly is kushan magic and what is actually just Ganishka's power?

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Seems so, yeah. In short, at this point we haven't seen any "Kushan magic" that wasn't related to Ganishka in one way or another.

Walter said:

As a child, Ganishka's relationships with his brother and mother were strained because of the bloodshed. Because of that, I'm sure there were a lot of repressed feelings of guilt and anguish that would have manifested in his relationship with his son.

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Exactly. His wife and son reminded him of his mother and brother.

Johnstantine said:

Honestly, I don't find Ganishka's sacrifice to be worthy. From what we know about Ganishka, he has little to no sympathy for the lives of others. For Miura to have him sacrifice a son he barely saw or cared little for seems like a scapegoat to me. He didn't see his son for years and never spoke to him so I highly doubt there was enough love or connection for it to be a genuine sacrifice.

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I'm thinking his son wasn't the most dearest to him either, his #1 would be his power, but I don't think a sacrifice could be power/status.
His son was not so close to him, as say Guts was to Griffith's dream, yet he can sacrifice. Who knows, maybe they were close in a strict father/son type way.

edit
Ok that brother + mom resemblance makes sense too.

Walter said:

Hahaha, are you a God Hand member? They seemed to think it was worthy. And that's all that really counts, unless you want to write a Letter to the Editor for the God Hand Gazzette expressing your opinion of unworthiness. I'm not sure Void would run the letter though...

And anyway, "what we know about Ganishka" is mostly from his time as an apostle. Obviously he doesn't show sympathy for the lives of others after he's sacrificed his humanity.
I think the actual power of his feelings for his son are betrayed by his fear. Not only that, if he was so fearful of his son and wife, why not kill them off secretly? He had that option. Why let a successor live when Ganishka more than anyone knows the danger and the violence of succession.

Also, this may be pushing it a bit, but it's how I read it. As a child, Ganishka's relationships with his brother and mother were strained because of the bloodshed. Because of that, I'm sure there were a lot of repressed feelings of guilt and anguish that would have manifested in his relationship with his son. He kept him at a distance, but probably had great hopes as well because of his loss of innocence as a child. We'll never know though... because that chapter of the story is now over.

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Good call. My opinion has been swayed.

I read it once and didn't even think about making the comparison.

Aazealh said:

Don't you remember seeing him smoke Ganishka's fog? And what about Guts' comment that Daiba is related to an apostle when he first sees him? He could instantly feel it through the Brand.

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*Facepalm* Well i do now.

Walter said:

I think the actual power of his feelings for his son are betrayed by his fear. Not only that, if he was so fearful of his son and wife, why not kill them off secretly? He had that option. Why let a successor live when Ganishka more than anyone knows the danger and the violence of succession.

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Such a detail...Its this sort of implied information that makes me like Berserk so much.

Okin said:

I know he's always been right on time, but he seriously has to be near-omniscient to appear right when Griffith is off guard, atop a giant tower of apostle no less.

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We don't know that he was necessarily any more off or on guard than he is at any given time, but I'd imagine being in his Femto form is somehow important to Skully's plan. Speaking of which, forget the timing, how the hell did he know to make the portal appear in that exact location a mile in sky? =)

Walter said:

Honestly, any kind of introspection into Femto's so-called "reaction" is essentially a Rorschach test for each individual. It really gives nothing away.

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Yeah, the one thing we're not talking much about that could be construed as a possible reaction by Femto to Skully's attack, is that it appears to have struck Femto's left shoulder. Doesn't that seem an odd place to aim? Why didn't Skully hit him in the head, right down the middle? Unless he was aiming for that shoulder-area specifically, didn't care, was rushing or missed, it could suggest Femto possibly avoided the head shot. In any case, I think it bodes well for Skully's attack being potent, as it gives Femto a reason not to be hit in the head, which is possibly revealing about Miura's motives too in picking that spot, since he probably wouldn't want to kill the main antagonist 2/3rds of the way through the story, while pumping up Skully and having an excuse to give Griffith a cool scar or something.

Aazealh said:

In short, at this point we haven't seen any "Kushan magic" that wasn't related to Ganishka in one way or another.

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Well, there's still the Kundalini as you mentioned (and possibly Daiba's pterodactyl =). Also, Daiba's talk of their arts didn't seem to be that of someone just spending found money, he seemed to have serious background and even Schierke recognized his ability, though a different style from her own (and revealed to be directed through the Kundalini as well as Ganishka's power). Anyway, considering there's even an episode title alluding to it, I think it's fair to say that we've seen, not necessarily a Kushan-brand of magic, but at least some magic techniques performed by Kushans, it's just impossible for us to separate pure skill from... Apostle performance enhancers.

I feel like we're judging Daiba now as if his feats have been tainted by steroids.

The demon womb, which both daiba and Ganishka worked on, certainly represents a knowledge of those occult arts that others do not have.
Griffith does also make an interesting point about the language that Daiba uses...but that could also be just mindless old person's babble.


Depending on the fate of Ganishka, what becomes of the other kundalini and other elemental spirits could be very important.

If Ganishka were out of the picture, would such creatures simply be left and forgotten? Would Daiba find some way to make use of them?

Scarier i think would be if Ganishka was turned to Griffith's machinations, would such elemental assets be added to his massive army?