Episode 303

I'm not sure if it's been answered, but I'm a bit confused by the flashbacks.

His mother poisoned him, but he survived? Is that what he's referring to when he's calling himself serpent prince and talking about the asp? I guess it didn't kill him but it still did something to him? I'm not sure what happened to his brother, stabbed in his sleep, I guess by Ganishka himself? I'm having a hard time making out the top panels on the second page.

Do we know for sure if it's Griffith's plan to destroy him? Or is he converting/recruiting him, or about to use him to get rid of skull knight?

I'm not trying to be an idiot or annoying, I just want to make sure I'm interpreting what happened right.

I'm fairly certain Griffith is not going to fall there, that would be rather anti-climatic, but I wonder about the fate of the others there. Zodd has always been loyal, I'd imagine he would fight to the death if it came to it.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
SiRAuron said:
His mother poisoned him, but he survived?

Yep.

SiRAuron said:
Is that what he's referring to when he's calling himself serpent prince and talking about the asp? I guess it didn't kill him but it still did something to him? I'm not sure what happened to his brother, stabbed in his sleep, I guess by Ganishka himself?

Yeah, Ganishka killed him in his sleep. As for why he refers to himself like that, we're not told. It might have been related to the attempt to poison him to some extent, but not necessarily so. From what we're shown, I don't think the poison had any lasting effect to him. That name is also a reference to his own cold-bloodedness and to how he lived his life.

SiRAuron said:
on page 3 I think when his father dies, I'm guessing it wasn't an accident judging by the bottom panels?

Yeah, it's implied he had him assassinated.

SiRAuron said:
I get that he grabbed the beherit as he was dying, and sacrificed his son, though I'm not sure who exactly initiated it, whether it was a plot from his son or someone in the court.

His son was leading the attack, so we can assume he was the one responsible. Just like Ganishka had his own father killed.

SiRAuron said:
Do we know for sure if it's Griffith's plan to destroy him? Or is he converting him, or about to use him to get rid of skull knight?

We don't know what Griffith's plans are. It's not sure at all that he intends to merely destroy Ganishka; on the contrary he might very well use him and all the evil power he's brought back from the abyss for some sinister purpose (i.e. changing the world). That doesn't mean Ganishka won't perish in the process though.
 
thanks, I was having a hard time making out some of the panels.

I don't expect Ganishka to survive at this point, but I do wonder what might have happened had skull knight not crashed the party.
 
The initial spoilers said Griffith/Femto was 'toying' with Ganishka, but the full EPISODE suggests Griffith is compassionately evangelizing to him. I doubt Griffith would be trying to manipulate Ganishka with mere words at this point, so I'm leaning towards him being sincere about it. As such, it goes beyond Griffith's goal of ruling a kingdom etc. and implies a higher ideal. I think this is an aspect of Griffith's/Femto's personality that hasn't been showed thus far, although what the 'true light' he's talking about means is anyone's guess, and one would of course expect a change in Griffith's ultimate ambitions after becoming a God Hand and reincarnating.

Or more likely I'm forgetting stuff from earlier on or just seeing things on the surface :troll:
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Aazealh said:
I wonder about that actually. Does it make a difference? I'm not sure (can't be actually)... But it's certainly interesting that it's happening like this.

Yes, it might just be that "this is the time," whether that has to do with him appearing as Femto or not. It just makes me wonder why/how this is the moment to strike as opposed to any other time, such as the INCARNATION. :griffnotevil:

Aazealh said:
Hahaha man, that's some crazy analysis you got there. :guts: Personally I just think SK struck as soon as he got out of the portal and didn't bother to aim at the head. If he could damage Femto like he usually does apostles he'd still split him in half anyway.

Of course, crazy analysis is what we do! :badbone: That's the thing though, he usually does aim for the head quite consistently, with a few reasonable exceptions. It's enough that the fact he doesn't appear to be striking his head now is at least noteworthy.
And if I have my way, we're only just beginning down this path to Hell...
zoddhand2.gif


Aazealh said:
Oh I definitely agree that we've seen them use magic, my point was that so far it hasn't been some unknown, fundamentally different kind of magic that would be Kushan-specific.

Yeah, that's really all I meant to say, and dressed in different clothes is a good way to put it.

Cronus said:
How are they different in this context? Both are doing what they have to do for survival, as Puella said. Guts had to kill others so he could live, Ganishka did the same thing. They just had different circumstances.

I think the distinction lies in that Guts was taught directly and Ganishka learned indirectly. Ganishka took the initiative himself, while Guts was a child doing exactly what he was told to do. I'm not saying Ganishka's any worse or Guts' any more innocent; but, if anything, Ganishka's upbringing and environment put him at a disadvantage when it came to his survival.

Aazealh said:
I believe you are not expressing yourself properly in this instance. Allow me. :badbone: click

Excellent!

Shadax said:
Anyway...are we really sure Skully slashed Femto? Couldn't this be some sort of mirage or doppelganger or something from Rakshas? I don't remember his exact quote, but wasn't it along the lines that he would be the one who would have Griffiths head when the time came? :p

thesyndrome said:
anywho, I reckon rakshas might have taken the blow....just a theory, nothing concrete to support it

Haha, I enjoy these speculations, allow me to tie them together with the question of why Skully didn't strike at Femto's head (just for fun =). Perhaps Rakshas somehow deferred the attack, like he he did the Tapasa before, as Griffith's head now "belongs" to him. :rakshas:

Aazealh said:
As for why he refers to himself like that, we're not told. It might have been related to the attempt to poison him to some extent, but not necessarily so. From what we're shown, I don't think the poison had any lasting effect to him. That name is also a reference to his own cold-bloodedness and to how he lived his life.

At least now we know what Ganishka had written on his elephant's personalized license plates, "ASP MAN!" :ganishka:
 

puella

Berserk forever
Griffith said:
I think the distinction lies in that Guts was taught directly and Ganishka learned indirectly. Ganishka took the initiative himself, while Guts was a child doing exactly what he was told to do. I'm not saying Ganishka's any worse or Guts' any more innocent; but, if anything, Ganishka's upbringing and environment put him at a disadvantage when it came to his survival.

Good call, but I also think it could be a kind of direct incentive that young Ganishka was poisoned by his mother. Anyway, it's still shocking to me that he killed his brother like that. If he had killed his mother, I would have sympathized with him more. (he chose the most effective way!)

I hope I'm not the only one who is waiting for the great emperor to counterattack (to give a "good blow", eh Griffith :slan:) after regaining his senses. I feel he's too good a character to end up just being manipulated by the natural born rapist. :ganishka:
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
puella said:
I hope I'm not the only one who is waiting for the great emperor to counterattack (to give a "good blow", eh Griffith :slan:) after regaining his senses.

Hahaha, good one! The words alone, and the image they bring to mind, shock Ganishka! :ganishka:


puella said:
I feel he's too good a character to end up just being manipulated by the natural born rapist. :ganishka:

Sadly, I don't know if it's even a matter of manipulation at this point, or if he's already "gone into the light."
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Mage said:
The initial spoilers said Griffith/Femto was 'toying' with Ganishka, but the full EPISODE suggests Griffith is compassionately evangelizing to him. I doubt Griffith would be trying to manipulate Ganishka with mere words at this point, so I'm leaning towards him being sincere about it.

First off, keep in mind that summary was from a random Japanese reader. Second, I would say that Griffith is indeed manipulating/overwhelming him. Just like what he did when he confronted him outside Vritannis. Remember? Ganishka couldn't take his simple presence next to him. He's completely dazzled now, but do we know if this is really what he wanted all along? I mean he actually seriously opposed Griffith and meant to "defile his beauty" and all that. Is Femto truly showing compassion here or just obtaining what he wants? Because I have a feeling Ganishka won't make it at the end of the day while Femto's plans will go on smoothly (assuming SK doesn't disrupt things too critically).

Mage said:
As such, it goes beyond Griffith's goal of ruling a kingdom etc. and implies a higher ideal. I think this is an aspect of Griffith's/Femto's personality that hasn't been showed thus far, although what the 'true light' he's talking about means is anyone's guess, and one would of course expect a change in Griffith's ultimate ambitions after becoming a God Hand and reincarnating.

Oh, well I think we've all known or at least strongly suspected that for a long time. Ganishka's transformation into that huge monster was in itself a clear hint that we would soon get more insight into the grand secret plan of the God Hand (Age of Darkness and whatnot).

To quote our good friend Locus: "This kind of trifle affairs that goes on in this world, it is meaningless already. Soon, the morning will come. The true sun will illuminate the world."

Illuminate it... from the darkness. :idea:

Griffith said:
Yes, it might just be that "this is the time," whether that has to do with him appearing as Femto or not. It just makes me wonder why/how this is the moment to strike as opposed to any other time, such as the INCARNATION. :griffnotevil:

Maybe because he hadn't tested the beherit sword yet at the time?
 

Rhombaad

Video Game Time Traveler
Griffith said:
Sadly, I don't know if it's even a matter of manipulation at this point, or if he's already "gone into the light."

I feel the same. I think it's over for Ganishka. The moment where Femto closes his tear filled eye had a sense of finality to it. The big guy never even laid a hand on Griffith... :judo:
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Rhombaad said:
I feel the same. I think it's over for Ganishka. The moment where Femto closes his tear filled eye had a sense of finality to it. The big guy never even laid a hand on Griffith... :judo:

Well in his defense, he did his best and tried his hardest. It just wasn't enough. :sad:
 

Rhombaad

Video Game Time Traveler
Aazealh said:
Well in his defense, he did his best and tried his hardest. It just wasn't enough. :sad:

Yep, he gave it his all, but what can you do against the one true Absolute? :griffnotevil:
 

Rhombaad

Video Game Time Traveler
As long as you don't bite it in the next episode... :SK:

Personally, I'd get the fuck outta there if I were SK.
 

puella

Berserk forever
Griffith said:
Hahaha, good one! The words alone, and the image they bring to mind, shock Ganishka!
We'll see. :carcus:

One of the reasons I like Berserk is that Miura is a really good writer, not to mention a great artist. This is why I've been translating the manga. For me, the lines are more important than anything else. I totally agree with his depiction on Ganishka. "Fear" is, I believe, the biggest factor that leads humans to evil. The more you are scared, the more evil you become. If we can be perfectly at peace, there would be a lot less cruelty in the world. But fear can never be paid for, like Ganishka says. I really appreciate Miura's deep introspection on human nature.
Then the truly evil one is fearless? That's quite ironic but it seems the members of the God Hand aren't afraid of anything.
 

puella

Berserk forever
Still speculating about a possible last move from Ganishka, I'm thinking that after being almost blinded by Femto, SK's intervention could allow him to see "the darkness" within Femto, realizing it's not true light but true darkness. Waking up from that illusion he'd get angry and perhaps try something against Femto, who would then tell him there'll be no mercy for him.

Meanwhile SK would be busy handling Zodd, who'd be protecting his master. That'd give us two fights: SK vs. Zodd and Ganishka vs. Femto. Plus the mystery guest: Rakshas. =)
 

Daijyashin

Berserk is Divine and Human
puella said:
Still speculating about a possible last move from Ganishka, I'm thinking that after being almost blinded by Femto, SK's intervention could allow him to see "the darkness" within Femto, realizing it's not true light but true darkness. Waking up from that illusion he'd get angry and perhaps try something against Femto, who would then tell him there'll be no mercy for him.

Umm Yes, I think it's an interesting point of view, infact that way the battle and the hate of Ganishka toward Griffith would evetually go on.

It would be a good introduction or anyway a primal explanation to the duality of the Falcon toward men.(since it's not clear if Griffith will save or not men)

puella said:
Meanwhile SK would be busy handling Zodd, who'd be protecting his master. That'd give us two fights: SK vs. Zodd and Ganishka vs. Femto. Plus the mystery guest: Rakshas. =)

Yep it'a a possible scenario.(I would think even to Daiba)
 
I feel ridiculous just asking this question, but just how much of a threat is Zodd to the Skull Knight right now? In their previous bouts, SK has never had a problem hitting Zodd, so what happens to Zodd when he is hit by the Beherit Sword?

Further, what do you suppose it is about Zodd that prevents the Skull Knight from killing him? Zodd is, after all, the only apostle to have gone toe to toe with the Skull Knight and walked away.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Marik said:
(since it's not clear if Griffith will save or not men)

I'd say it's pretty clear he's not going to save humanity. Save it from what anyway?

Malachai said:
I feel ridiculous just asking this question, but just how much of a threat is Zodd to the Skull Knight right now?

A serious enough threat in my opinion. Imagine he rams him from behind. Could make him fall off his horse, who knows. And don't forget about Rakshas. He might take part in the battle as well.

Malachai said:
so what happens to Zodd when he is hit by the Beherit Sword?

That's a good question actually, one I've been wondering about. We can't know for sure before it happens, but I'd venture it wouldn't be good for him. Maybe a wound that won't perfectly heal like the others do?

Malachai said:
Further, what do you suppose it is about Zodd that prevents the Skull Knight from killing him? Zodd is, after all, the only apostle to have gone toe to toe with the Skull Knight and walked away.

His skill as a fighter of course. What else? Zodd is a formidable opponent.
 

Daijyashin

Berserk is Divine and Human
Aazealh said:
I'd say it's pretty clear he's not going to save humanity. Save it from what anyway?

On the vol 22 Schierke says, after investigating the progress of the apocalypse, she is wandering if the Falcon will be the savior of the world.(time ago I started a topic about the Magic tome and the Sacred tome, but It wasn't minded. :sad:)

Save from what? umm I don't know but I guess from desperation, suffering, maybe he would provide a divine reason for men to die.(or simply from the actual darkness aka Ganishka) :schierke:
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Marik said:
On the vol 22 Schierke says, after investigating the progress of the apocalypse, she is wandering if the Falcon will be the savior of the world.
That's not what she says. She says "the falcon of darkness will be master of the sinful black sheep and king of the blind white sheep. The one who shall call down on the world an age of darkness." Obviously, we've already seen much of this prophecy come into fruition. It's also the same prophecy Farnese says in vol 14.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Aazealh said:
Maybe because he hadn't tested the beherit sword yet at the time?

Certainly seems so, but that just makes me wonder why he hadn't. Did he really need that last beherit? =)

Malachai said:
I feel ridiculous just asking this question, but just how much of a threat is Zodd to the Skull Knight right now? In their previous bouts, SK has never had a problem hitting Zodd, so what happens to Zodd when he is hit by the Beherit Sword?

Further, what do you suppose it is about Zodd that prevents the Skull Knight from killing him? Zodd is, after all, the only apostle to have gone toe to toe with the Skull Knight and walked away.

zoddhand2.gif
Stop!

It's because they're actually about as close to a pair of equal but opposing forces on the battlefield we've seen in the series, like opposing counterparts on a chess board. I think it's a common misconception that Skull Knight is able to hit Zodd whenever he wants just because he once cut Zodd's arm off and ran past him at the Eclipse. While Skully got the best of Zodd that time, he didn't kill him, and obviously wasn't able to have the same success at Griffith's incarnation, or at Flora's house. With this episode, you can score their rivalry at 2-2. :zodd:

Marik said:
On the vol 22 Schierke says, after investigating the progress of the apocalypse, she is wandering if the Falcon will be the savior of the world.

It was more like Schierke was identifying him as the so-called savior of the world, her wonder actually being skepticism of that premise, and her true conclusion being that he's really the falcon of darkness.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Marik said:
On the vol 22 Schierke says, after investigating the progress of the apocalypse, she is wandering if the Falcon will be the savior of the world.

Walter's already corrected you on this, but really, I'd appreciate if you made sure to get references like this one correctly. That's a pretty big misconception you just posted here.

Marik said:
Save from what? umm I don't know but I guess from desperation, suffering, maybe he would provide a divine reason for men to die.(or simply from the actual darkness aka Ganishka) :schierke:

Given that he's the one who drove Ganishka to turn himself into what he is now, allow me to doubt that.

Griffith said:
Certainly seems so, but that just makes me wonder why he hadn't. Did he really need that last beherit? =)

Well he's not a hasty fellow. Hell, he only pulled it out in the Qliphoth because he had no other choice.
 

Th3Branded0ne

I'll be back.
Talking about the Yobimizu no Tsurugi now, I wonder if it has a time limit for its use. Whether is a time period or slashes he can make to either attack or cut through the dimensions(if that's how it's said, when skully uses it to travel from one place to another). He has 3 potential foes to attack here (Femto,Zodd,Rakshas) and one in the maybe(Ganishka). Femto was attacked from what the last panel shows, and he might attack back or not, we don't know yet(but most likely he will). Zodd was in the motion of charging Skully, so I am only assuming he will attack him. Finally, Rakshas is just nowhere to be seen in this episode. I"m sure he's lurking somewhere to have the best seat ever to watch this battle or to attack at any moment. I hope we do get to see Yobimizu no Tsurugi's full potential or what is needed for skully to come out safe. :badbone:
 

Daijyashin

Berserk is Divine and Human
Walter said:
That's not what she says. She says "the falcon of darkness will be master of the sinful black sheep and king of the blind white sheep. The one who shall call down on the world an age of darkness." Obviously, we've already seen much of this prophecy come into fruition. It's also the same prophecy Farnese says in vol 14.

Yes I know that, infact the topic I started focuses on this duality.

Anyway yes, I agree with Griffith, like he said it was a skeptic premise of Schierke, seeing how he represses the kushan army.

Aazealh said:
Walter's already corrected you on this, but really, I'd appreciate if you made sure to get references like this one correctly. That's a pretty big misconception you just posted here.

Yep Infact I'd have been more clear in making references. I quoted her even to underline a possible(imo) will of mankind.
It makes me remind the final speech of the Charlotte's father, the king, when Griffith evelops her with his wing. He states he was led from Griffith to the madness and finally became free from the prison called throne.
Maybe(just speculating) mankind, want to suffer in order to be saved or misfortune is the desierd salvation. Maybe there is this kind of duality like the darkness and the light. But it's just my tought.
 
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