Author Topic: Episode 304  (Read 58230 times)

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Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #175 on: May 27, 2009, 09:36:59 PM »
Anyway, on a different topic, I don't remember anyone pointing out that on pages 12 and 13, we can see the ideal world not just through Ganishka's spawns but also through dead apostles. I'm just bringing it up because we had a discussion about the Vortex of Souls showing up when apostles die recently.

Yeah, it's interesting because in that discussion we touched on the possible ramifications of a number of Apostles dying in close proximity, kind of... like this! Though whatever would have happened "naturally" is a moot point now given what's happening with Ganishka at the moment...

There's more than one apostle whose corpse is shown reacting too. As for what it means, well simply said they're all strongly linked to the deeper layers of the astral world, so their carcasses reacted to the "door" that opened in Ganishka.

Speaking of which, it should be noted that apparently not all the Apostle corpses disappeared ala Wyald's in the meantime.

The census?

I think he means the consensus. As for that consensus, I guess we'll find out. My feeling is that while we can't say what's happening to Ganishka is the same thing happening to them, they're certainly resonating with it.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #176 on: May 28, 2009, 08:28:19 AM »
Though whatever would have happened "naturally" is a moot point now given what's happening with Ganishka at the moment...

Yeah it's clearly on a whole different scale. On a side note, it might be comforting to Ganishka fans that at least the final battle has taken a toll on Griffith's army.

Speaking of which, it should be noted that apparently not all the Apostle corpses disappeared ala Wyald's in the meantime.

Well it's always the same thing: we only saw some of them briefly and we don't know how long it would have taken for it to happen, assuming it would have.

My feeling is that while we can't say what's happening to Ganishka is the same thing happening to them, they're certainly resonating with it.

Yeah, that's it.

Offline theblackswordman

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #177 on: May 28, 2009, 07:18:37 PM »
Wow, we finally got to see Femto! I really liked this episode. I hope thats the end of Ganishka. Please don't kill me, but I think I've had enough of him. A great character indeed, but he just wount die right! And why was he so scared of Griffith, when he himself said that his sword couldn't reach him?
I think its really annoying when Griffith is portraited as a saint, while Guts turning into his darkside, a monster that only thinks revenge.

I think Ganishka is the strongest apostle by far. I really enjoyed Zodd joining forces with Guts to fight Ganishka. Reminds me of Straw hats fight with Enel.
One thing I didnt quite understand, was Femto in his astral form? GOD! I'm waiting for the next episode like a child! (I am a child when it comes to waiting)

The artwork is getting exeptional with each episode! Can't wait to see the next arc. I'm also worried that the event it might effect Guts and the crew. Who knows, maybe Guts will see a glimpse of Femto.
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #178 on: May 28, 2009, 07:32:18 PM »
And why was he so scared of Griffith, when he himself said that his sword couldn't reach him?

Well Griffith didn't use his sword against him, did he? And it's more complicated than Ganishka just being scared. He was crying with gratitude when he died.

was Femto in his astral form?

From what we've seen, it seems that Griffith physically transformed into Femto.

Offline theblackswordman

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #179 on: May 28, 2009, 07:51:56 PM »
Well Griffith didn't use his sword against him, did he? And it's more complicated than Ganishka just being scared. He was crying with gratitude when he died.

Maybe scared isn't the right word to describe how he felt. But he couldn't do anything to Griffith, Ganishka was more like ice melting. I'm talking about their first encounter btw.


From what we've seen, it seems that Griffith physically transformed into Femto.

I hope we see more of his powers and abilities. All we've seen is his "defensive" counter attacks, and how good he was raping Casca XD.
But seriously, I hope we see a real fight with Femto. I don't care wether it's against Skullknight or Guts in his armor.
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #180 on: May 28, 2009, 08:02:36 PM »
Maybe scared isn't the right word to describe how he felt. But he couldn't do anything to Griffith, Ganishka was more like ice melting. I'm talking about their first encounter btw.

So basically you don't understand why things happened the way they did? I ask because I think it's made pretty clear in the concerned episodes (282 & 283). And Ganishka actually tried to attack Griffith but failed.

Offline Marik

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #181 on: May 28, 2009, 08:08:51 PM »
But seriously, I hope we see a real fight with Femto. I don't care wether it's against Skullknight or Guts in his armor.

Assuming that Femto needs to fight. I think that he is quite absolute, but everything may happen.

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #182 on: May 28, 2009, 08:25:22 PM »
I hope we see more of his powers and abilities. All we've seen is his "defensive" counter attacks, and how good he was raping Casca XD.
But seriously ...
Really dude, that's some kind of fucking joke to you? You make me sick.

And we've seen him do more than 'defensive counter attacks'. He smashed apostles into a ball at the eclipse in an attempt to kill SK and probably summoned the gale in ep 283 that disarmed Ganishka. I think you're just forgetting all these displays of power, and won't be satisfied until Femto is wielding some kind of demon sword and firing fireballs out of his eyes.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline theblackswordman

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #183 on: May 28, 2009, 08:26:47 PM »
So basically you don't understand why things happened the way they did? I ask because I think it's made pretty clear in the concerned episodes (282 & 283). And Ganishka actually tried to attack Griffith but failed.

No, not why Ganishka felt the way he did Grifith presence. If I remember correctly, Ganishka was sort of shaking, which only gives me the understanding that he actually was scared. But Ganishka was also sort of "happy" or whatever (I don't know what word to use) to see Griffith. He was like a kid seeing a God or something like that. At least he was able to stand up and transform. He was going to attack Griffith, but didn't do anything at all, because he just couldn't, if I remember correctly. I'm not sure if Griffith caused the wind, or if he knew it was Ganishka's weakpoint, but then again, maybe it was obvious...

Really dude, that's some kind of fucking joke to you? You make me sick.

No, I was just making fun of him and his rape scene. The rape scene was like a whole episode!
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #184 on: May 28, 2009, 08:31:53 PM »
No, not why Ganishka felt the way he did Grifith presence.

Because Ganishka was an apostle, and that Griffith is a member of the God Hand. I advise you to re-read those episodes for the details.

He was going to attack Griffith, but didn't do anything at all, because he just couldn't, if I remember correctly. I'm not sure if Griffith caused the wind, or if he knew it was Ganishka's weakpoint, but then again, maybe it was obvious...

Ganishka wasn't able to attack because of the wind. And yes, the wind was most likely caused by Griffith.

No, I was just making fun of him and his rape scene. The rape scene was like a whole episode!

Yeah because it's fucking hilarious, right? :schierke:

Offline theblackswordman

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #185 on: May 28, 2009, 08:42:53 PM »
Because Ganishka was an apostle, and that Griffith is a member of the God Hand. I advise you to re-read those episodes for the details.

I already re-reading the whole thing from first book. I'm sure I've missed a lot.
Having 1001 mangas and animes that needs to be watched parallell with reading Berserk, I'm sure it will take more than a year.

Yeah because it's fucking hilarious, right? :schierke:

Again, don't kill me, but I was sick of it all. Not that I'm not adult enough to accept a rape scene, but I think it was a bit exaggerated. I'm not a big fan of hentai, you know, not that I am categorising it as a one, but I think it's enough for a rape scene to be a lesser scene. I mean, man, it wasn't long before that, that Casca was about to be raped by Wyald. But, that is not an objective opinion offcourse.
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #186 on: May 28, 2009, 08:46:47 PM »
I already re-reading the whole thing from first book. I'm sure I've missed a lot.

Well if you don't understand one specific part you can re-read that part alone.

Again, don't kill me, but I was sick of it all. Not that I'm not adult enough to accept a rape scene, but I think it was a bit exaggerated. I'm not a big fan of hentai, you know, not that I am categorising it as a one, but I think it's enough for a rape scene to be a lesser scene. I mean, man, it wasn't long before that, that Casca was about to be raped by Wyald. But, that is not an objective opinion offcourse.

Being sick of it is the point. You're supposed to be dismayed, revolted at it. That's what makes it emotionally powerful. Guts is powerless to stop it, and so is the reader. That's all the more reason not to find it "funny".

And the fact Wyald's rape attempt failed not long before only reinforces the shock of Femto actually raping her. It's no coincidence.

Offline theblackswordman

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #187 on: May 28, 2009, 09:04:05 PM »
Being sick of it is the point. You're supposed to be dismayed, revolted at it. That's what makes it emotionally powerful. Guts is powerless to stop it, and so is the reader. That's all the more reason not to find it "funny".

I can say I felt exactly like everyone did (btw I watched the anime before reading the manga). I was not only sick of it, but also more like, "Oh, common". I didn't say I laughed my ass off reading that part, but was more like "dissing" the looong rapescene. Long sex or rape scene ain't exactly my favorite thing to read, especially when I can understand that it is a rape scene by just reading a few pages. Call me child or incompetent of reading adult material or whatever. I'm just saying it was too many pages (imo). Just to make it clear, even if my opinion sucks, it's not a mutual opinion.

I have indeed missed a lot, like the scene where the Beherit sticks that priest and somehow gives him apostles attributes, thats just one of many things. I will re-read those episodes in just a second.
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #188 on: May 28, 2009, 09:08:44 PM »
Long sex or rape scene ain't exactly my favorite thing to read

There's a big difference between a sex scene and a rape scene. Please don't make an amalgam of the two. Anyway, again, the reader not being at ease is the point. It's not supposed to be a good moment.

Offline Death May Die

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #189 on: May 28, 2009, 09:54:24 PM »
That one scene, which included the rape of Casca was perhaps the strongest moment in the entire series. A true turning point. It wasn't sex for the SAKE of sex, it was the worst nightmare of the character come true, done by the person she had dedicated her life to, the very person that asked her "if you have anything to protect, then pick up the sword." I watched a lot of stuff in my day, all with great stories and characters, but that episode alone made Berserk something more than it was up till that point, I guess it made Berserk personal to everyone, at least to me. Something few things are able to break through and do.

Offline CCS

Re: Episode 304
« Reply #190 on: May 29, 2009, 03:17:27 AM »
Wassup, yall, I'm new.
Anyway I really dug this episode, although it seems Femto/Griffith has the ability to pretty much be in "god mode", so that he can even warp space to get out of a tight spot. It really sucks for Skull Knight how he walked right into Femto's trap. So can Femto see the future if he was waiting for SK to show up?

Offline Rhombaad

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #191 on: May 29, 2009, 04:48:46 AM »
So can Femto see the future if he was waiting for SK to show up?

Don't think of it as seeing the future, but as Femto knowing Skull Knight would show up at the "junction of times" like he has in the past.

It was causality at work once again. :idea:

Offline Clawed The Bum

Re: Episode 304
« Reply #192 on: May 29, 2009, 05:47:09 AM »
So Femto assumed that SK would show up?
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Offline CowTip

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #193 on: May 29, 2009, 05:50:34 AM »
The thing that confuses me the most about the causality argument is that I thought both Guts and Skull Knight existed outside of causality, so why is it so easy for Femto to realize he'd have been there in the first place? Wasn't his appearance unexpected during the eclipse? Am I just remembering things wrong or has Skully just become too predictable in general? I don't see how Skull Knight can ever hope to accomplish anything if he's always working within causality.

I apologize if this has been explained or brought up recently (even in this thread though I've read/skimmed through most of it, d'oh!), I'm just a little confused about it like I pointed out.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #194 on: May 29, 2009, 06:57:34 AM »
Wassup, yall, I'm new.

Hey there, welcome. :SK:

So can Femto see the future if he was waiting for SK to show up?

No, like Rhombaad said (and like Femto said himself), he was merely expecting him to show up because he never misses an opportunity to strike at the God Hand. I don't think we even need to bring causality into the equation when it comes to that. And even if Femto could see the future, those events are supposed to be times when the unexpected can happen, defying all odds.

So Femto assumed that SK would show up?

He was expecting him to show up, yes.

I thought both Guts and Skull Knight existed outside of causality

It's not the case. That's a really big and unfortunately common misconception. One that usually stems from bad translations. You'll find tons of posts about this in older threads, but if you want to quickly refresh your memory I recommend you to re-read SK's talk to Guts at the end of volume 18.

Am I just remembering things wrong or has Skully just become too predictable in general? I don't see how Skull Knight can ever hope to accomplish anything if he's always working within causality.

Since he systematically attacks the God Hand whenever an occasion presents itself, yes, I guess you could say it's become predictable. As for accomplishing something, well he hasn't accomplished too much so far, has he?

Offline slan69

Re: Episode 304
« Reply #195 on: May 30, 2009, 10:03:12 AM »
There's a big difference between a sex scene and a rape scene. Please don't make an amalgam of the two. Anyway, again, the reader not being at ease is the point. It's not supposed to be a good moment.


Ahhh the rape scene :ganishka: what i thought was funny was when Slan was actually tearing up a bit because she was watching something she thought was beautiful and also what she said in my quote is what she said in that scene if some of you didn't notice hehehe  :carcus:
Quote -

Love, hate, pain, pleasure, life, death. Everything is there… This is human... This is demonic!

~Slan~

Offline CowTip

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #196 on: May 30, 2009, 09:56:33 PM »
I know this is like beating a dead horse for you, but I took your advice and checked out volume 18 again. Unfortunately, all I have is the dark horse releases and there doesn't seem to be a translation of that moment available here on SK (unless I missed it somewhere), but from what I understood, it looks like only those with the brand truly exist outside of causality whereas skull knight is something else entirely. If that's more the case, then this all makes a lot more sense. Skully just keeps hoping that he'll find the one tiny flaw in causality, but as we've seen, failing in every respect except maaaybe where Guts is involved.

Again, forgive me if I've got it completely wrong. I'm just trying to work it out as best as I can with what we know so far.

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #197 on: May 30, 2009, 10:15:59 PM »
but from what I understood, it looks like only those with the brand truly exist outside of causality whereas skull knight is something else entirely.
I had an explanation, but Aaz' is better, so read his post.

Quote
  If that's more the case, then this all makes a lot more sense. Skully just keeps hoping that he'll find the one tiny flaw in causality, but as we've seen, failing in every respect except maaaybe where Guts is involved
Well, it's less about Sk finding "a tiny flaw in causality" and more about striking at a critical moment when the God Hand are vulnerable. The "junction of times" as Femto and SK called it. Basically the critical moment when several threads of causality overlap.

Ahhh the rape scene :ganishka: what i thought was funny was when Slan was actually tearing up a bit because she was watching something she thought was beautiful
You people find comedy in the oddest things...
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #198 on: May 30, 2009, 10:27:11 PM »
it looks like only those with the brand truly exist outside of causality whereas skull knight is something else entirely

No one exists "outside" of causality's influence in the corporeal world (well, except maybe Griffith, but I wouldn't bet on it). Where do you get that from? Causality is the relation between causes and effects. It plays a role in Berserk because the Idea of Evil manipulates it to alter the world. What SK tells Guts in volume 18 is that because of the brand, he lives in the Interstice, and because of that (having a presence in the astral world), when the "times are joined" he might have a small chance to make a difference. Just during specific events, and just a small possibility.

Being branded doesn't matter beyond the fact branded people are in the Interstice. SK is a spiritual being in more ways than one so whatever applies to Guts in that regard applies to him as well; probably more so.

Again, forgive me if I've got it completely wrong. I'm just trying to work it out as best as I can with what we know so far.

It's alright. What use would the forum be if people couldn't ask questions about things they don't understand? :serpico: I do think it's all pretty clearly explained by SK in episode 142 though. But as long as you have questions, ask away. Even if you don't want to derail the thread, you can just PM me. Don't hesitate.

Offline CowTip

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #199 on: May 31, 2009, 12:08:42 AM »
Well, maybe Guts isn't outside of causality per say but I'll explain where I got the idea from. Again, I'm going from the Dark Horse releases but Skull Knight refers to himself and 'others of our kind' as a reflection of the moonlight on the water, but points out that the brand puts Guts and Casca halfway between worlds and that he might just be a fish who is able to leap out of the water.

To me, that says that Skully sees Guts as more outside of the normal workings of the world, perhaps on a level that not even he is on. In my original post, I had assumed that Skull Knight and Guts were more or less on the same level, perhaps less predictable than most others. It all just seems so vague (What Skull Knight is best at doing it seems  :badbone:) that I'm not sure about it.

From the sounds of things (And as proven by the Eclipse and this episode), Skull Knight very well may have tried this sort of intervention more than we've seen. He's just looking for that unknown moment (junction of times whatever that means, it seems Skully isn't sure either). At least I figured that out~