Author Topic: Episode 304  (Read 58050 times)

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Offline Marik

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #100 on: May 21, 2009, 02:57:56 PM »
According to what Femto says, it was the strike from Skull Knight's Yobimizu no Tsurugi that "opened the door."

Ah..So it has opened the door of the light? After the slice we can still see the vortex inside the demon tower, then suddenly flows the light from the Ganishka tower.

Maybe it's me that is not understanding the process or the Femto words.  :???:

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #101 on: May 21, 2009, 02:58:22 PM »
But was Femto that turned the Ganishka hell into light just touching him? (the bearer of light)?

Or the SK strike provoked that reaction?
If Femto caused  a transformation within Ganishka, it isn't evidenced by his explanation in 304. We already knew Ganishka had taken on a form from the depths of "hell." It's pretty simple really, but people are making it sound complicated. Allow me to use a metaphor:

Think of Ganishka like a big balloon filled with the Ideal World. The balloon itself is composed of the hellish-looking multi-faced Ganishka tower. When it popped, it let loose everything inside it. Ganishka becomes the bringer of light.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Marik

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #102 on: May 21, 2009, 03:12:29 PM »
If Femto caused  a transformation within Ganishka, it isn't evidenced by his explanation in 304. We already knew Ganishka had taken on a form from the depths of "hell." It's pretty simple really, but people are making it sound complicated. Allow me to use a metaphor:

Think of Ganishka like a big balloon filled with the Ideal World. The balloon itself is composed of the hellish-looking multi-faced Ganishka tower. When it popped, it let loose everything inside it. Ganishka becomes the bringer of light.

Ah Ok, so we must always refer to the previous Femto light/darkness speech duality.
Yes, it's something that must be considered.
In few words(if I got the metaphor) the hellish faces are the external faces, while the vortex was the inner skin of the Ganishka faces?

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #103 on: May 21, 2009, 03:17:55 PM »
But was Femto that turned the Ganishka hell into light just touching him? (the bearer of light)?

We don't really know what Femto did to Ganishka. We know that he lulled him (and maybe killed him in a way) but that's about it. Did he "prepare" him somehow so that things would happen like they did in episode 304? Impossible to tell at this point.

Ah..So it has opened the door of the light? After the slice we can still see the vortex inside the demon tower, then suddenly flows the light from the Ganishka tower.

The "light" comes from the Ideal world, which you guys shouldn't be reducing to the Vortex of Souls. There's more to it than that. Anyway, yes, as reading the episode can tell you, it's SK's slash that opened Ganishka like this.

Ganishka becomes the bringer of light.

I don't think Femto's words referred to Ganishka in the previous episode though (I think he meant himself and his alter ego the Falcon of Light). Ganishka even comments on how the light is wrapping him.

In few words(if I got the metaphor) the hellish faces are the external faces, while the vortex was the inner skin of the Ganishka faces?

Ugh. I don't think you have understood.

Offline Marik

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #104 on: May 21, 2009, 03:26:56 PM »
The "light" comes from the Ideal world, which you guys shouldn't be reducing to the Vortex of Souls. There's more to it than that. Anyway, yes, as reading the episode can tell you, it's SK's slash that opened Ganishka like this.


Ugh. I don't think you have understood.

Ok so that's it, the full comprehension of the Vortex.

Offline Kalie Ma

Re: Episode 304
« Reply #105 on: May 21, 2009, 03:42:22 PM »
Quick everyone, put your HazMat suits on! It might be contagious...

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #106 on: May 21, 2009, 08:41:29 PM »
Skull Knight has been secretly working for Griffith/Femto!  :troll:

Since I've been waiting for this episode I've become pretty incapacitated by the sheer awesome nature of what's happening. However, it seems everyone in the Berserk universe have collectively shit their pants(along with me)! God only knows how that's going to effect the world. I expect a return to Guts and crew next episode, if only for a few panels to show their reactions.

Oh, and Femto is looking mother-fuckin' bad ass. Whattapimp. I wonder if he's going to revert back to looking like Griffith, if he can I imagine he would... but maybe not. Who knows anymore? Miura has effectively shocked and awed me out of speculating very much. =)

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #107 on: May 21, 2009, 08:42:58 PM »
Oh, and Femto is looking mother-fuckin' bad ass. Whattapimp. I wonder if he's going to revert back to looking like Griffith, if he can I imagine he would... but maybe not.

I'm quite sure he will. Why couldn't he?

Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #108 on: May 21, 2009, 09:06:17 PM »
Oh, and Femto is looking mother-fuckin' bad ass. Whattapimp.

Of course he is, was there ever any doubt? :griffnotevil:



Everyone hoping for that outcome... well, this picture's as close as you're going to get. :badbone:

I wonder if he's going to revert back to looking like Griffith, if he can I imagine he would... but maybe not. Who knows anymore? Miura has effectively shocked and awed me out of speculating very much. =)

In the same vein, I too have wondered if he'll now publicly reveal himself as Femto. What could be worse than a world willingly serving a demon king? :idea:

I'm quite sure he will. Why couldn't he?

Because in this world, he won't have to! :zodd:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqTqinMIw_8#t=4m48s

:ganishka:

Offline Dar Klink

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #109 on: May 21, 2009, 10:44:02 PM »
You really like Lion King, don't you Griffith?
King Hanafubuku: Remember Guts, you gotta put your past behind you! When the world turns it's back on you, you turn your back on da world.
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #110 on: May 21, 2009, 11:07:31 PM »
Everyone hoping for that outcome... well, this picture's as close as you're going to get. :badbone:


Because in this world, he won't have to! :zodd:

Did he ever have to, though? :griffnotevil:

Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #111 on: May 22, 2009, 12:02:08 AM »
You really like Lion King, don't you Griffith?

I may have watched it recently. :slan:


Hahaha, now that's the way to reply! I love it. :ganishka:

Did he ever have to, though? :griffnotevil:

Yeah, depends on how he needed to do things versus how he wanted to. I just wonder if that won't change now that he's already won the heart's of the people, they already suspect he's more than he seems... and what's done is done now anyway. :zodd:

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #112 on: May 22, 2009, 12:17:00 AM »
Quote from: Griffith
Yeah, depends on how he needed to do things versus how he wanted to. I just wonder if that won't change now that he's already won the heart's of the people, they already suspect he's more than he seems... and what's done is done now anyway. Zodd

That's more or less what I was thinking. I'm now pretty confident he at least has the ability to revert, should he want to.

All in all, the more I think about it the more it seems pretty obvious that we'll see him back in his human form.. I gotta admit though, it'd be interesting seeing Femto come down and the reactions he'd get.

Human folks: "Griffith?!"

Femto: "Erm, welp... yeah, sort of, but just call me Femto now.... and don't mind the seemingly irremovable helmet."  :troll:

Which gets me thinking, going totally stream of conscious here, but it'd be cool if Femto could somehow retract his helmet, ala Berserk's armor. I wonder what he's got under there? Bald? Flowing black/purple hair? I wonder if Miura will ever address that.

It's also interesting to note that when we see Femto back on Zodd's back, he still hasn't reverted back to Griffith yet... I wonder if anyone can see him. Daiba's a strong possibility. Sonia, maybe?

Offline Rhombaad

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #113 on: May 22, 2009, 01:07:38 AM »
It's also interesting to note that when we see Femto back on Zodd's back, he still hasn't reverted back to Griffith yet... I wonder if anyone can see him. Daiba's a strong possibility. Sonia, maybe?

It looks to me like they're just flying near one another. As for whether or not Miura will reveal what Femto looks like without his helmet, I think we've got as much a chance of seeing that as we do Void's and Ubik's eyes. :void:

Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #114 on: May 22, 2009, 01:33:31 AM »
I gotta admit though, it'd be interesting seeing Femto come down and the reactions he'd get.

Human folks: "Griffith?!"

Femto: "Erm, welp... yeah, sort of, but just call me Femto now.... and don't mind the seemingly irremovable helmet."  :troll:

I think it'd be even more interesting if he came down like in volume 13, only this time raped the shit out of the pope, "Who's your God NOW!?"

:griffnotevil:

Which gets me thinking, going totally stream of conscious here, but it'd be cool if Femto could somehow retract his helmet, ala Berserk's armor. I wonder what he's got under there? Bald? Flowing black/purple hair? I wonder if Miura will ever address that.

If it could retract, I'd say he'd probably just look like Griffith for the most part, but maybe with some Slan style tendrils for hair. :slan: :ganishka:

Anyway, if we really want to entertain this idea, another possibility rather than the helmet being retractable while Femto, is Griffith doing a partial transformation, if possible, ala Venom/Eddie Brock:


Offline DetriusXii

Re: Episode 304
« Reply #115 on: May 22, 2009, 02:03:25 AM »
The "light" comes from the Ideal world, which you guys shouldn't be reducing to the Vortex of Souls. There's more to it than that.

I'm confused about the ideal world.  Reading EvilGenius' translation for Guts talk with Flora, it seemed that the ideal world contained the soul.  Have we seen any interaction between the ideal world and the physical world like the interaction between the astral/spiritual world and the physical world?  Is there any good speculation on what the interaction between the astral world and the ideal world would look like?

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #116 on: May 22, 2009, 02:55:34 AM »
I'm confused about the ideal world.  Reading EvilGenius' translation for Guts talk with Flora, it seemed that the ideal world contained the soul.
I wouldn't rely on those translations dude, you'll get no love bringing them up here. And I really don't think EG even translated anything from vol 24. That was The Hawks. Even worse... It'd also help if you were more specific than just "the ideal world contained the soul". That's a little vague... Schierke calls the Ideal world the origin of all existence. But... you're really asking about some heavy-duty stuff that's hard to grasp for those new to the series. So buckle up, scanlation readers!  :ganishka:

Within the Ideal World is the Vortex of Souls -- the giant whirlpool which Puck senses as a massive collection of evil. We see it in volume 3, 11 (within Wyald), 24, and now here, within Ganishka. The conglomeration of bodies that snatches away the souls of apostles can be considered an appendage of that vortex, or even just one of the tendrils within it. If you look carefully in volume 3, you can see that the swirls of the vortex are all composed of tortured souls. If you want to bring in Ep 83 into the mix, the Idea of Evil refers to it as an ocean of feelings, the dark side of humanity's collective consciousness. Later, it wraps portions of the Vortex around Griffith, beginning the process of Femto's creation. So it's got many erm... functions.

But is the Ideal World just the Vortex? I lean towards no, there's more to it. But it's all that we've seen, aside from the Abyss, which is likely at the other end of the Vortex -- the dark place we see at the end of Ep 82 and in vol 24. But, we just don't know.

Quote
Have we seen any interaction between the ideal world and the physical world like the interaction between the astral/spiritual world and the physical world?  Is there any good speculation on what the interaction between the astral world and the ideal world would look like?
I think you have the beginnings of a misunderstanding about the borders between worlds and the ah ... interaction between them. Flora and Schierke describe the world in a metaphor as if it's a massive ocean. In the "shallow" portion (or the surface, you could say), is the physical world and all its inhabitants. As you get "deeper", the surroundings become strange and filled with otherworldly beings. Deeper and deeper is where you come to the massive beings that we know little about, including the Ideal World.

From an objective view, the astral world's layers are divided by gradual shifts. But regular humans would encounter a so-called locked gate in deeper portions as they're limited by their perception. Flora says magicians are able to transcend those boundaries by releasing their spirits. But another good example of how the worlds interact for those who can traverse them is how Guts and Co. stumble into Flora's mansion. Guts and Casca exist at the border between the Astral and Physical. With the band, they went from established places in the physical world, through the deep woods, into somewhere completely different and deeply tied to the astral world. This was only possible because they're branded, of course. They're no magicians :schierke:

But no, to answer your question in a roundabout, the Ideal World doesn't come into contact with the Physical World like this naturally, because they're separated by that massive difference of depth.  This is a completely unique phenomena we're witnessing, and likely the most all-encompassing change the Berserk world has ever gone through, short of its creation.


I touched on this next point during the above post, but I've been thinking about it tonight, and there may be a very easy explanation, or it may be something we haven't considered yet. First, lets take a look at these two images.


We're all familiar enough with this one by now. The vortex is inside Ganishka.


But the Vortex was also inside Wyald, pulling him down into "hell."

From the "deaths" of the chibi-Ganishkas surrounding him on pages 12-13, it's clear Ganishka has died. But is the apperance of the Vortex in 304 simply part of the natural deconstruction of Ganishka's apostle form? Or was it there, as we have been discussing, because of SK's intervention in slicing the rift between worlds. Either way, something unforeseen happens in 304 with the light emitting FROM Ganishka. I just don't know yet what the implications are, along with the appearance of the Vortex. I honestly think we're going to have to see the effects of this transformation of the world before we can deduce exactly what's happened.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #117 on: May 22, 2009, 08:15:59 AM »
I gotta admit though, it'd be interesting seeing Femto come down and the reactions he'd get.

Human folks: "Griffith?!"

Femto: "Erm, welp... yeah, sort of, but just call me Femto now.... and don't mind the seemingly irremovable helmet."  :troll:

If he came down now, they'd see him "spiritually", so even as Femto there's no telling how he would appear to them. Perhaps what they'd see would be... The Falcon of Light? :griffnotevil:

Which gets me thinking, going totally stream of conscious here, but it'd be cool if Femto could somehow retract his helmet, ala Berserk's armor. I wonder what he's got under there? Bald? Flowing black/purple hair? I wonder if Miura will ever address that.

Hahah what the hell, I think it's cool that the helmet is a part of him myself. Like, when he was born, the helmet's eyes were closed, like a real bird. :void: Why do you even assume there's something under it?

It's also interesting to note that when we see Femto back on Zodd's back, he still hasn't reverted back to Griffith yet... I wonder if anyone can see him. Daiba's a strong possibility.

It's like Rhombaad said, they're just close to one another, but Femto isn't on his back. And Daiba was way below them when Ganishka opened up.

it seemed that the ideal world contained the soul

Yes, it does. The great "ocean" of souls down there forms mankind's collective consciousness. What's confusing about it?

Have we seen any interaction between the ideal world and the physical world like the interaction between the astral/spiritual world and the physical world?  Is there any good speculation on what the interaction between the astral world and the ideal world would look like?

No, and no.

From the "deaths" of the chibi-Ganishkas surrounding him on pages 12-13, it's clear Ganishka has died. But is the apperance of the Vortex in 304 simply part of the natural deconstruction of Ganishka's apostle form? Or was it there, as we have been discussing, because of SK's intervention in slicing the rift between worlds.

I think it was clear enough Ganishka died when he opened up and exploded. And he wasn't really just an apostle anymore at that point, so I don't think we should talk of his giant self as his apostle form. In fact that even casts doubt on the validity of comparing his death to that of a standard apostle. Anyway, what makes you think it's the Vortex of Souls we see inside Ganishka exactly? We don't actually see it. Just the ocean that exists down there. Same with the creatures he'd spawned. Now, there's one possibility: it's to look at the way it's curved inside him, and say that it's the view from the middle of the hole at the Vortex' center. But then we might as well just call it the Abyss, like Ganishka did himself.

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #118 on: May 22, 2009, 11:52:47 AM »
Anyway, what makes you think it's the Vortex of Souls we see inside Ganishka exactly? We don't actually see it. Just the ocean that exists down there.
I recognize there's no crazy conglomeration of bodies down there (yet). But I'd considered the Vortex as being the whirlpool of souls. Is the ocean a distinctly different thing from the vortex?

Quote
Now, there's one possibility: it's to look at the way it's curved inside him, and say that it's the view from the middle of the hole at the Vortex' center. But then we might as well just call it the Abyss, like Ganishka did himself.
Perhaps. But using occam's razor, I'd just say it's curved because what we're viewing is limited to what's inside him.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Marik

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #119 on: May 22, 2009, 11:57:30 AM »
I recognize there's no crazy conglomeration of bodies down there (yet). But I'd considered the Vortex as being the whirlpool of souls. Is the ocean a distinctly different thing from the vortex?

It is the exact thing I am wandering.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #120 on: May 22, 2009, 12:12:26 PM »
I recognize there's no crazy conglomeration of bodies down there (yet). But I'd considered the Vortex as being the whirlpool of souls. Is the ocean a distinctly different thing from the vortex?

To the best of our understanding, the Vortex is a part of the ocean. An area in it, if you want. More specifically, the part where all the evil is gathered. The whole ocean isn't just one single giant whirlpool, at least from what we've seen. Yet since the Vortex is the only part that's been focused on so far, we've had very little exposure to the rest, and so we know next to nothing about it.

Online jackson_hurley

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #121 on: May 22, 2009, 08:19:26 PM »
I wonder, now that Wyndham is destroyed ( well i think so since the size Ganishka had ), if Ganishka stopped moving on top of the tower of rebirth (is that the good name because I always mix it with the tower in Albion) where Griffith was imprisoned a few years ago. I'm just trowing that out. I thought about it when I realized the last episodes have happened at top bottom of the Ganishka "tower". The ideal world could be directly link with the bottom of the hole in some kind of way. Could it be possible?

Edit: if Wyndham is not destroyed then void my idea. hehe

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #122 on: May 22, 2009, 08:23:52 PM »
I wonder, now that Wyndham is destroyed ( well i think so since the size Ganishka had ), if Ganishka stopped moving on top of the tower of rebirth (is that the good name because I always mix it with the tower in Albion) where Griffith was imprisoned a few years ago.

Yeah, Wyndham is pretty much just rubble now. And yes, "Tower of Rebirth" is the correct name. As for whether he was on top of it or not, honestly I don't think so. Remember that he walked over to where Griffith and his troops were, far outside the city. Besides, the tower wasn't mentioned at all and I just can't see what role it would be supposed to have.

The ideal world could be directly link with the bottom of the hole in some kind of way. Could it be possible?

I don't believe it's the case.

Offline Rhombaad

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #123 on: May 22, 2009, 09:14:29 PM »
Yeah, Wyndham is pretty much just rubble now. And yes, "Tower of Rebirth" is the correct name. As for whether he was on top of it or not, honestly I don't think so. Remember that he walked over to where Griffith and his troops were, far outside the city. Besides, the tower wasn't mentioned at all and I just can't see what role it would be supposed to have.

Any chance the Necropolis is visible now? Perhaps that will factor into the rebuilding of the capital.

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 304
« Reply #124 on: May 22, 2009, 09:21:54 PM »
Any chance the Necropolis is visible now? Perhaps that will factor into the rebuilding of the capital.
If by the necropolis you mean the very bottom of the Tower of Rebirth, I'd say that's doubtful considering how deep it is. Remember, the Hawks were waaaaaay down in it when Casca dropped her torch and it fell out of sight before it hit the bottom. I'd say nothing's been visible down there for a millennium.
:femto: :slan: :ubik: