Author Topic: Episode 305  (Read 58496 times)

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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 305
« Reply #250 on: June 15, 2009, 11:08:25 AM »
I think it does.  The same way a lunar table could be used, one could be created using the angle the moon is above the earth's equator, or something like that, I'm not an astronomer.

Yeah I know you're not an astronomer, that's why I'm taking the time to tell you nothing can be done with this. For one thing, in the case of Ansel Adams they're talking about pictures of the sky taken from the Earth, not an image of the Earth from the moon. It's only relevant because it could be compared to the lunar tables from the same spots in order to date the pictures. Requiring extensive information. Really, there's nothing you can figure out from that image alone. The two cases are completely unrelated aside from having something to do with the moon, like I already told you.

Which means I also believe it could be used as an approximation for the Berserk world.

An approximation of what? The time the image was drawn?

I like to change up my wording for specific things from what other people use.  I know it's a subconcious thing, but I was trying to point out everything I thought about it, to see if it really is a more obvious thing, which is why I wanted to discuss a less obvious thing (to me), the hair.

Well I have no problem with people using their own words to formulate what they think in general, but keep in mind that we're using some pretty specific words for a good reason here. Often, even though the words are close in meaning, switching one for another can just result in being less accurate.

It's a good example we have here: while we can suppose from the evidence plainly displayed in the manga that Guts' artificial forearm might have subconsciously become something he thinks of as a part of himself (the incident with Casca is the most flagrant example of this, almost definitive proof as it is), it is moving way beyond reasonable speculation to start saying that Guts might not feel the side-effects of the armor if he doesn't concern himself with them. Or to relate the wounds Slan inflicted him to his own perception of himself, as if it mattered. Things are just not that simple.

This is the danger of speculating using notions that aren't necessarily clear in everyone's mind, and that's why I've been repeatedly, laboriously contradicting and rectifying such theories for about as long as I've been an administrator here. It takes very little for people to get the wrong idea or to take things too far, as history has shown us.

Anyway, going back to the hair, not only is it less obvious, but it's also something we can't reliably predict. We know how Guts received his wounds, we know what they are. His hair was a freak accident and we haven't been told the details of how or why it happened. It could be related to the other side effects the armor has (losing one's senses) or not. It could have been affected by the wave of spiritual light or not. For now there's not much more to be said about it that what has already been posted.

Offline skullnights_pants

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Re: Episode 305
« Reply #251 on: June 16, 2009, 04:16:13 PM »
I'm confused about the unicorns

Offline Oburi

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Re: Episode 305
« Reply #252 on: June 16, 2009, 04:20:42 PM »
I'm confused about the unicorns

Yea we've only discussed every aspect of them in this thread.  :schierke:

Offline skullnights_pants

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Re: Episode 305
« Reply #253 on: June 16, 2009, 08:42:50 PM »
Oh sorry, its 11 pages long, usually I'd read a whole thread but these pages are unlike normal forum pages, they are immensely long!

Offline creampuff_war

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Re: Episode 305
« Reply #254 on: June 16, 2009, 09:15:36 PM »
holy balls. finally; we have reached the cataclysm that brings the worlds together. seriously, since Puck was introduced around, let's see, the first 5 pages of the story, this event has been a forgone conclusion. plus, Guts can now actually slay a dragon with the dragonslayer, probably thanking Godot in the process. i'm loving all the crazy shit going on
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Offline Judas Priestly

Re: Episode 305
« Reply #255 on: June 16, 2009, 09:31:16 PM »
Well, if the worlds are becoming one, do you think that they will ever be separated again?  Perhaps that is one of many goals of Griffith's opposition.   Another question is to what extent the overlapping of worlds will be?  Does the vortex of souls count as a layer?  For that matter, will the overlapping extend into the Abyss?   
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Offline KazigluBey

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Re: Episode 305
« Reply #256 on: June 16, 2009, 10:19:33 PM »
Well, if the worlds are becoming one, do you think that they will ever be separated again?  Perhaps that is one of many goals of Griffith's opposition.   Another question is to what extent the overlapping of worlds will be?  Does the vortex of souls count as a layer?  For that matter, will the overlapping extend into the Abyss?  

If Griffith is defeated in the end then I'd guess whatever influence he and the Idea of Evil have on the current world would either be completely reversed or at least dissipate. With humans losing their ability to see Elves and other creatures due to the Holy See's religious influence, the creatures they are now exposed to will cause that influence to lessen and might make their ability to see these creatures permanent, at least to some level. Whether or not these creatures continue to exist in the "real world" if things are reversed is anyone's guess.
Now I ride with the mocking and friendly ghouls on the night wind
And play by day in the catacombs
I know that light is not for me, save that of the moon
Yet in my new wildness and freedom I welcome the bitterness of alienage
For I know always that I am an outsider...an outsider...stranger in this century...for a time
A stranger among those who are still...men

Offline Dani

Re: Episode 305
« Reply #257 on: June 17, 2009, 05:25:30 AM »
Probably the greatest game changing moment of Berserk thus far and there's more interest in hair and unicorns.....  :chomp:

I hope we return to Guts to see his reaction in the next episode but I'm willing to bet there's another episode at least before then.
=)

Offline Johnstantine

Re: Episode 305
« Reply #258 on: June 17, 2009, 01:25:47 PM »
The next episode is the end of volume 34 and I can't WAIT to own them all.

Online Walter

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Re: Episode 305
« Reply #259 on: June 22, 2009, 02:19:29 PM »
The next episode is the end of volume 34 and I can't WAIT to own them all.
If ep 306 focuses on Griffith, which is likely, then minus a few reaction shots, volume 34 will be the first exclusively Griffith-centric volume in the entire series.  :isidro:

As Aaz mentioned to me a while back, I wonder if that will change the lineup in the volume's character description portion.

Looking forward to it... just a few more days!
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Offline Knight

Re: Episode 305
« Reply #260 on: June 22, 2009, 08:22:33 PM »
How about ep 306 focuses on that dudes running from hydra?

Online Walter

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Re: Episode 305
« Reply #261 on: June 22, 2009, 08:26:47 PM »
How about ep 306 focuses on that dudes running from hydra?
I imagine that would be a short episode. :troll:
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 305
« Reply #262 on: June 23, 2009, 08:18:10 PM »
Well, if the worlds are becoming one, do you think that they will ever be separated again?

Maybe. We know magical creatures were a lot more common back when Flora was young than they were until recently. Somehow most of them progressively disappeared over the centuries (Schierke chalks it up to the Holy See's influence, like KazigluBey said). Maybe that process could be repeated, assuming the situations were similar enough.

Another question is to what extent the overlapping of worlds will be?

Unknown at this point. Are the worlds merged to their fullest extent already? Can they merge even more than they have already? Those are questions we can't answer yet.

Does the vortex of souls count as a layer?  For that matter, will the overlapping extend into the Abyss?

No, the Vortex of Souls doesn't count as a layer of the astral world. It's part of the "ocean" that exists at the bottom of the astral world, which can itself be considered a layer. The Vortex of Souls is only one region of said ocean. If the merging became extreme and extended across all the layers, then maybe the Vortex and the Abyss would appear in the corporeal world. That would definitely be cataclysmic though.

If Griffith is defeated in the end then I'd guess whatever influence he and the Idea of Evil have on the current world would either be completely reversed or at least dissipate. With humans losing their ability to see Elves and other creatures due to the Holy See's religious influence, the creatures they are now exposed to will cause that influence to lessen and might make their ability to see these creatures permanent, at least to some level. Whether or not these creatures continue to exist in the "real world" if things are reversed is anyone's guess.

I think it's hard to say for sure. For one thing, even if the whole God Hand was eradicated, nothing says the Idea of Evil would lose all influence over humanity. The little we know about it doesn't hint at any such thing. Maybe a slow dissipating process would start again though, that's a possibility. It's certainly hard to believe those fantastical creatures slowly disappeared solely through the influence of the Holy See.

Offline KazigluBey

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Re: Episode 305
« Reply #263 on: June 23, 2009, 09:09:43 PM »
I think it's hard to say for sure. For one thing, even if the whole God Hand was eradicated, nothing says the Idea of Evil would lose all influence over humanity. The little we know about it doesn't hint at any such thing. Maybe a slow dissipating process would start again though, that's a possibility. It's certainly hard to believe those fantastical creatures slowly disappeared solely through the influence of the Holy See.

I thought I saw some dialog in one of the episodes that said that the influence of the Holy See was responsible for making it difficult or impossible for humans to see creatures like Elves, etc.
Now I ride with the mocking and friendly ghouls on the night wind
And play by day in the catacombs
I know that light is not for me, save that of the moon
Yet in my new wildness and freedom I welcome the bitterness of alienage
For I know always that I am an outsider...an outsider...stranger in this century...for a time
A stranger among those who are still...men

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 305
« Reply #264 on: June 23, 2009, 09:21:37 PM »
I thought I saw some dialog in one of the episodes that said that the influence of the Holy See was responsible for making it difficult or impossible for humans to see creatures like Elves, etc.

Schierke says so in episode 206. Only it's not that simple. Do you really think the "influence of the Holy See" as described in that episode could somehow make all the creatures we're seeing right now vanish by itself? I don't think so myself. You can't wish something out of existence and Schierke actually says as much. Just like how the spectres had their fun with Farnese at the beginning of volume 17 regardless of what she wanted to believe.

For people to be able to forget, ignore or stop believing in all those supernatural creatures and phenomena, they must have already been low-key enough at the time.

Offline Rhombaad

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Re: Episode 305
« Reply #265 on: June 23, 2009, 09:24:48 PM »
I agree. While the Holy See's influence might have strengthened Man's inability to see beings from the spiritual world, I doubt it was the original cause. For one thing, we have no idea how long the Holy See has even been around. Something might have happened to suppress creatures and objects from the spiritual world way before the Holy See came into existence.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 305
« Reply #266 on: June 23, 2009, 09:34:40 PM »
For one thing, we have no idea how long the Holy See has even been around.

And as far as we know, its scriptures do contain references to actual supernatural creatures and events (the four elemental kings, the prophecy of the Falcon of Darkness).

Something might have happened to suppress creatures and objects from the spiritual world way before the Holy See came into existence.

Or around the same time. Something akin to a separation of the worlds, or maybe a thickening of the borders between them.

If we want to go out on a limb, we can even speculate that the Holy See might have been started specifically for the purpose of diminishing the influence of the spiritual on the corporeal, maybe following some cataclysmic event(s) that had occurred not long before at the time. And it could also be that over time, that purpose was slowly twisted so it would serve the purposes of the Idea of Evil, establishing a Falcon of Light figure that would fit Griffith perfectly (but then again, maybe it was the other way around and Griffith was tailor-made to fit that myth). Of course, this is assuming that the Idea of Evil wasn't behind it all from the very beginning (in which case it could have planned both the Falcon of Light figure and Griffith together), which isn't sure at all.

Offline KazigluBey

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Re: Episode 305
« Reply #267 on: June 24, 2009, 03:50:12 AM »
Schierke says so in episode 206. Only it's not that simple. Do you really think the "influence of the Holy See" as described in that episode could somehow make all the creatures we're seeing right now vanish by itself? I don't think so myself. You can't wish something out of existence and Schierke actually says as much. Just like how the spectres had their fun with Farnese at the beginning of volume 17 regardless of what she wanted to believe.

For people to be able to forget, ignore or stop believing in all those supernatural creatures and phenomena, they must have already been low-key enough at the time.

We're talking about people being unable to see them, not that they vanish or disappear from whatever realm they exist in right? I'm not talking about them being physically banished to some other place, just that people can't see them for whatever reason.
Now I ride with the mocking and friendly ghouls on the night wind
And play by day in the catacombs
I know that light is not for me, save that of the moon
Yet in my new wildness and freedom I welcome the bitterness of alienage
For I know always that I am an outsider...an outsider...stranger in this century...for a time
A stranger among those who are still...men

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 305
« Reply #268 on: June 24, 2009, 05:19:30 PM »
We're talking about people being unable to see them, not that they vanish or disappear from whatever realm they exist in right? I'm not talking about them being physically banished to some other place, just that people can't see them for whatever reason.

Judas Priestly was speaking of the different worlds being separated again, so we're talking about astral creatures disappearing from the corporeal world (but not from the astral world, of course). People being unable to see elves (which is really more like an extreme form of not paying attention to them) might work with (mostly) harmless beings to some extent, but as shown in volume 17, it doesn't work when the shit hits the fan. People are never going to be unable to see a dragon if it rampages their town, regardless of the Holy See's teachings. It wouldn't make much sense otherwise, anyway.

Offline yota821

Re: Episode 305
« Reply #269 on: June 28, 2009, 03:10:34 AM »
I searched for it, don't think anyone's posted it yet: I wonder what Schierke's reaction was when the worlds merged?  She already had a fairly pronounced reaction when Slan temporarily manifested in the Qliphoth, so I'm wondering how she much more of a reaction she might've had with not just the 4 God Hand, but the entire astral world merged with the corporeal?  Would she become even more powerful, or would she be knocked out (coma, perhaps) but the sudden rush of Od?  

Maybe it's way out there, but I was just thinking that, since the only reaction from the crew was Guts'.
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 305
« Reply #270 on: June 28, 2009, 07:51:16 AM »
I searched for it, don't think anyone's posted it yet: I wonder what Schierke's reaction was when the worlds merged?

Hmm, pretty sure we talked about it, if not in this thread then in the previous one.

She already had a fairly pronounced reaction when Slan temporarily manifested in the Qliphoth, so I'm wondering how she much more of a reaction she might've had with not just the 4 God Hand, but the entire astral world merged with the corporeal?  Would she become even more powerful, or would she be knocked out (coma, perhaps) but the sudden rush of Od?

Perhaps more pertinent than Slan's appearance (I believe proximity made a difference in that case), we also saw her reaction when Ganishka came back into the world in episode 296. And she called it a disaster. I wouldn't be surprised if it left her panicked or disoriented at first, or if it basically scared her shitless because she'd know how much of a catastrophe it really is.